Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

>>52076080
I love the Marines Malevolent.

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List 1 or 2?

1 represents some extra investment while 2 is is more WYSIWYG and rule of cool with PF champs in most units likely to see melee.

Decided to randomly start reading Shield of Baal: Exterminatus on my phone while on the bus and holy shit this stuff is riveting. Nids in the lore are scary as fuck.

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>tfw you painted your entire army and realise you don't actually like the colour scheme

So what exactly are Ruststalkers good for? I have one squad of each Sicarian, and last game they broke and ran against fucking SCOUTS. Infiltrators pretty much always pull their weight, can't figure out how to make these guys helpful.

Also, damn these swords are fragile. One guy already has had his Razor shortened to a punch dagger, I've taken them to the shop once.

>>52076080
While it's expected that op is a faggot, at least pick a random video with some semblance of entertainment,

>>52076126
That's what stopped my Guardsmen / Henchmen army. Can't find a color scheme I like

>>52076133
pretty much nothing.
Sicarians are straight better

I'm going to be building a Guardians of the Covenant army. Am I better off using the Vanilla marine codex, or the Dark Angel one?

I don't particularly like Ravenwing, so Deathwing & the Special Characters are all I'd be getting out of it.

https://youtu.be/jj2KyGVLeJI
>Finally have cypher and the fallen rules and formation
>Its in French
Reposting from last thread, need translations

>>52076168
Reposting video because people are either blind or lazy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpMMJ_wTx10

>>52076139
Do you have any suggestions?

>>52076163
>I'm going to make a Dark Angel successor chapter, but not use any of the DA unique stuff

At that point, you're effectively turned Dark Angels to a Chapter Tactic that limits your unit choices. Compare and contrast.

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Roboute
>Row-boo-tay

>>52076203
What were they thinking
His name should be some badass roman shit

>>52076184
>no wargear list for fallen
>no rules regarding loyalists
>no formation

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>>52076203
Is this gonna be a new meme.

>Roboute
>Robot
>necrons
The ancient necron race was humans all along

>>52076080
Is the formation that essentially makes cultists Necron Decurians (4 up reanimation) worth it points wise in a below 2000 point game? Would they prove a threat? Or would I best just take something else?

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>>52076098
>I love the Marines Malevolent.

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>>52076279

>>52076257
How hard is the formation to read? Cypher, 1-3 Fallen. Rules were posted before video came out already in the last thread.

>>52073434

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>>52076290

>>52076313
That's a qt fedora-chan you got there.

Besides, there's literally nothing wrong with the Marines Malevolent.

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>and now leading the glorius imperium of man
>general bootay

>>52076080
Painting for the first time, my minis are basically dark purple + gommorah's gold for the edges.
I cant really say what colour should i use for guns.
Also black undercoat.

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>>52076389
post pics

>>52076389
Thin your paints
Use layers of darks and lights
Watch saint duncan on youtube

Saw a guy wearing a tshirt with a fuckhuge Blood Angels insignia across the front while at work today and it took all my strength to not go full autistic and screech at him that Ka'Bandha did nothing wrong or something

I have a scout titan. How the hell would I go about using it in a game(what book, I mean). Is it a dick move to bring one in a 2500 pt list? What do I need to do in order to use it?

Anyone got a slaanesh/emperors children wallpaper, mobial or desktop that won't get me judged in public?

>>52076378

>gathering storm.gif

>>52076321
Roboute bootie bootie bootie crusadin everywhere

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>>52076203
>Rowbooty
Lmao

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>>52076517
Auidible kek
Oh its coming buddy boyos
Hold those minis tight and maybe your army wont get squatted

>>52076548
Well at least the cheetahs have something new to kek at

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>>52076080
>he already fucked with Duncan
HOLY SHIT YOU ARE AS MUCH OF A FUCKING FUCK AS YOUR GAY ASS FAVORITE CHAPTER

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>>52076514

So I'm not the only one who referred to him as Robert Gulliman?

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So is everyone on Nocture black in the current fluff and they just get blacker once they become Space Marines due to the damage in the geneseed, or are there people from all races there and they all become jet-black with time once they become Astartes ?

>>52076647
Is that motherfucker fighting Fulgrim wielding a chain wrench?

>>52076679
That's god damn Ferrus Manus, and Fulgrim made that chain wrench

>>52076679
Your words make me sad.

So, is 40k actually fixable without an Age of Sigmar style reboot? Are the GW rules writers even competent enough to fix it with a reboot? Could even a competent team actually balance the large number of units available without making them terribly dull?

Or is it basically always going to be a just-for-shits-and-giggles game unless you are playing against an opponent using the same army or one with a very close power-level?

>>52076662
I call him Bobby G.

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>>52076679
He's got balls of steel

>>52076701
The only balanced version of this game is an Ork vs Ork mirror match because this is the only army that doesn't instantly gain unbeatable advantage within 1 turn.

>>52076697
>>52076693

Man I'm new here, the only reason I know about fulgrim is from another thread, I jumped in to see what was up with this game that /tg/ apparently loves and because I liked the space marine video game. Does it have a lot of chain wrenches? That's pretty badass if it does.

>>52076675
You get a Salamander Seed you become jet black. Original skintone does nothing.

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Question to Marines players:

I really like the Stormraven, and I'd love it even more with the Chapter House conversion kit.

Anyone had any experience with both kits? I hear Chapter House has finally restarted activity.

How's the Stormraven on the field? I'm thinking of using it with Vanguard Vets for my Carcharodons.

>>52076701
The only way to fix 40k is to have simultaneous shooting rounds. There's too much fire power in the game for turn 1 not to be a game decider

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>>52076736
I want you seed Vulcan chan

Why is Age of Sigmar so fucking shit? Fuck GW and fuck them rebooting 40k

>>52076133
For me I only like them for looking cool as shit.
For my next squad of Sicarians I'm building them as Ruststalkers to run them as Infiltrators, but those claws and swords look awesome, and I wish there were hoods for all the models.

>>52076735
> Does it have a lot of chain wrenches?
Oh lord you are really new.
Lots of chain swords and chain fists, not so many chain wrenches.
The 'wrench' in the picture is normally described as a hammer. Makes me wonder what made the artist think of it as one big wrench.

>>52076763
And fuck off too

>>52076745
It's a slightly cheaper more mobile land raider. I like it a lot. Assault vehicles are pretty much never bad, especially in marine armies

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>>52076422
I did i did, i just want opinions of you guys what color would fit the two i listed in my original post.
>>52076414
I already posted it two weeks ago, that's the first mini i painted. I still have no idea how to paint guns.

>>52076763
Age of sigmar isn't shit tho, it's actually just better than fantasy in almost every way

>>52076701
The game was always for shits and giggles. If they want to even it out all they need to do is re-balance things in all the 8th Edition Codices, by actually fucking play testing the stuff instead of just shrugging and say "Yeah, looks fine to me." Play testers should also probably not be biased, so the Space Wolf player shouldn't be balancing Thousand Sons material.

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>>52076759

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>>52076801
>no tomb kings
*autistic shrieking*

If I wanted to sell my minatures what would be the best venue?

>>52076701
>So, is 40k actually fixable without an Age of Sigmar style reboot?
Yes.

>Are the GW rules writers even competent enough to fix it with a reboot?
No.

>Could even a competent team actually balance the large number of units available without making them terribly dull?
Debatable.

>>52076736
Pity, I like having one HQ as my avatar but I don't want to be an albino Salamander.

>>52076833
facebook page of your LGS
or ebay

>>52076767

Yeah, I knew about chain swords, like I said, I liked the Space Marine game. How do you do a chain fist? Is that like, chainsaw brass knuckles? That sounds really kickass, actually. Is 40k easy to get into? I've never done wargaming before, but I'm the sorta shitty nerd who's done some modelling and shit, I collected those plastic gundam kits in high school.

>>52076861
Helmets mate, there are an absolute fuckton of them so you can be an albino and nobody will ever know

>>52076896
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chainfist
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Fist

>>52076821
I said almost every way. Fantasy was superior with its army selection and model range. But it's only a matter of time before AoS gets all that back

>>52076896
Start there:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

Bear in mind this is a VERY vast setting, and and old one, so there is A LOT to cover. Take your time, there's something for everyone. Remember that is was written by English people years ago, it was never actually meant to be a sensible setting, so it's okay if stuff doesn't make sense. It functions on the rule of cool.

When you're done with Lexicanum, go there:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000

It'll help put things in perspective, and get a less "official" idea of things. Careful though, it is filled with memes to the brim, the majority of them outdated, so take what you read with a grain of salt. A lot of these articles are written by the same small amount of people with obvious bias so remember to not take everything at face value. Still funny though.

Really the best way to start is to explore the Lexicanum, even just picking a random article from the main menu can teach you loads when you follow and read link after link.
You can also lurk /tg/. Don't worry if you see very strict opinions on some fluff of factions, many of us have forgotten that it is just meant to be a game and that it was never meant to be taken seriously.

Have fun.

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>>52076203
Did they pronounce it like that on stream or something?

Also, I bet they think in hindsight some of the Primarch names are stupid.

>Ferrus Manus
>literally "Iron Hand"

>Roboute Guilliman
>Leader of a Romanesque legion with a non-Roman name

>Lion El'Jonson
>Lionel Johnson, gay English poet

>Angron
>One dimensional angry guy

>>52076111
Try reading their old lore which was actually good. Shield of Baal was shoddy drivel.

>>52076909
>>52076916

Okay, cool; I'll start reading then. I know my LGS has some people that play, I can see if they're in next time I go check for new RPG releases and talk to them.

What's the actual gameplay like? Like I said, never wargamed before; but I've done RPGs for awhile, if that helps you put things into terms I can understand. Mostly DnD/pathfinder and one game of Shadowrun I was in once.

>>52076126
This happened to me at the end of last year, stripped the entire army and am now re painting it

>>52076941
Fulgrim and Mortarion?

>>52076896
Chainfist is like a HUGE glove with a chainblade running along the bottom of your hand from wrist outwards. If you're looking into starting I'd recommend hanging out at a few shops or attending the beginner events they hold (ours are weekly but YMMV) to see if its really your cup of tea before you spend all your shekels

Fall of Cadia. at some last pages there were colour schemes for a lot of SM chapters, some skiratii and even for tempestus, but of course no schemes for the sisters, fucking dammit last codex where they even get any Order's symbols was 3rd ed.

>>52076950
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaV3ku2aGOc&list=PL5xjyNnFNOoXLoYJ6RYbwvIjfJ3BGiJVd

>>52076963
I always felt the traitor primarch names were too obviously bad guy sounding

>>52076950
If you're curious about how the games played check out some killteam videos as they tend to be much shorter and easier to digest, just bare in mind killteam is a sort of spin off and some of the rules are different

>>52076840
now that mat's back they actually have some competent rules writers

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>>52076986

>>52077017
Not really Fulgrim or Curze

I can't stop mastrubating to Sisters

>>52076732
Ive never seen an ork vs ork game, imagine the assault phase

>ok ive got 90 attacks
>your guys are all dead but they get to attack back
>also 90 attacks
>now mine are all dead

The game would be over turn 3 max, which is still a 6 hour game from moving hundreds of minis and making attacks

>>52077040
This is the only reason why sisters have any popularity, and is the best reason why they should never get new models

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Devil Dog or Exterminator with 3 heavy bolts for anti tank. I have no leman russes or tanks, only chimeras, artillery, and infantry thus far

so how do we make the orks great again?

>>52077057
>Exterminator with 3 heavy bolts for anti tank
Nigger you wot

>>52077036
Curze always went by Night Haunter so I'd argue that.
Fulgrim fair enough that could go either way, it still sounds a little edgy though

I can't stop mastrubating to Slaanesh

>>52077057
Exterminator with Multi-Meltas and Lascannon is better for anti-tank. S5 is only good against AV11 or 10.

>>52076941
the stream had the two commentators saying different things, sometimes changing how they say it

the trailer has two different pronunciations as well

I'll wait until I see how jes says it in the design interview, because he's usually good at that.

>>52077057

mech vets with meltas and meltabombs for anti tank.

alt

deathstrike missile launcher

>>52077066
Give them Waaagh-Synapse
>when ork units are not in range with the synapse unit, they start killing each other for no reason. Roll a dice each turn for casualties and remove the amount of models shown on the dice number.
Also Fearless

>>52077066
Better stats and better rules.

>>52076963
Mortarion is probably a play on Mortem (Latin for death) and Carrion (rotting flesh)

>>52077066
1. furious charge gives +1 strength and +1 initiative.
2. waaaagh! gives all orks hammer of wrath.
3. if orks are numerous they should be fearless. so maybe some kind of unit strength table and if you have above lets say 12 or 15 your unit is fearless.
4. less random shit.
5. big choppas ap4. choppas ap5.

>>52076954
Stripping is such a pain in the fucking ass. I just got done with like.. 5 infantry models and I hated it. My hands reek of dettol even after washing them twice with scented soap and then moisturized.

But at least now I have a clean bike to defile in Perturabo's name.

>>52077036
>Curze
>Curse
>Was cursed with visions of the feature
wew lad

>>52077036
>Konrad Curze, the Night Haunter
>not a bad guy name
U wot m8?

>>52076080
how many snakemen do i need in my archons retinue

>>52077036
>Curze

Curse.

In addition, it always seemed a direct allegory to Kurtz from Heart of Darkness, written by Joseph Conrad.

>>52076801
>Age of sigmar isn't shit tho,
>game from a cereal box tier rules
>literally just khorne vs sigmarines
>other factions were either removed or received any update atball
>overpriced miniatures boxes of 3
>general's book little more than a band aid to prevent the game from dying because it sucked ass really bad
>literally empty uninspired worlds that became relevant in order to sell shit
>new miniatures add next to nothing to players that already had armies
>naked shit dwarfs
>tree people
>Bretonia, TK axed
>muh mortal realms have bast armies but literally no support from GW
AoS suck ass hard, it will eventually become fantasy re skined, no one like it when it came out and is slowly turning back into old fantasy again if it lives long enough.

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>>52077082
You and me both

>>52077054
>"Hello guys today we'll be painting a new Devout Sister, you'll need plenty of zinc and a few days of abstinence but dont forget plenty of fluids to thin your paint"
>hotglue ensues

>>52077131

.... Dude. That's... that's not what it's in reference to at all. It's a reference to Heart of Darkness (or Apocalypse Now); Conrad is the lsat name of the author, Kurtz is the name of an important character that goes crazy, and was corrupted to Curze while Conrad was spelled with a K.

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>>52077135
He wuz batman

Is the fat girl on miniwargaming a tranny? The voice sounds suspect

>>52076745
Chapterhouse a shit. Ordered from them a few months ago. Finally canceled after a month+ trying to contact them for a update. They didnt even fight the paypal dispute. Dont waste your time.

Spoilers for Dark Angels HH plotline.
Just finished Angels of Caliban. Previously read the first two DA HH novels, as well as a couple of the short stories/audio dramas (a couple about Curze and the Lion fighting on random planets during Thramas, and the one where Belath fucks over Astelan).

Apparently I missed some other works in there, since I'd never read anything about Imperium Secundus before and I missed everything dealing with the Ouroborus, which is apparently some powerful Chaos entity trapped on/in Caliban?

What the fuck is even going on with the Caliban end of that storyline? As I understand it, Zaharial is possessed by Chaos, Astelan is turbo-butthurt about being stuck on Caliban and just wants to get back to Great Crusading, and Luther wants to Make Caliban Great Again.

Also, is Holguin going to be the next/last Cypher?

Seriously fighting the temptation to scrap my plans to use my two Calth sets for pre-Heresy Thousand Sons and instead do Dark Angels successors.

>>52076313
>M-muh noble African American salamanders.

>>52077118
I3 is crap
HoW is crap
Only benefits Boys and boys are crap
Obviously
Need AP3 not Ap4

You don't address any of their shooting issues or lack of durability

>>52077174
I missed the comic where Batman ate children.

>>52077145
All of the snakemen, and the snake fetishist lady to keep them from folding and hiding under rocks when your archon dies

>>52076745
Just look for recasters for those upgrade since CH is fucked beyond redemption

Fuck them to hell.

>>52076732
>>52077043
One of the best matchups I've seen was Orks vs Tyranids. It was basically mobs of boyz vs swarms. The battle looked impressive and both players were having great fun. Both armies cut swathes into the enemy, but each turn one gained the upper hand, the opponent would get the upper hand on the next turn. Quite well balanced. No wonder the boyz in Octarius love the 'nids so much.

>>52077219
>You don't address any of their shooting issues
Spotted the shitter that thinks shootas need a buff.

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>>52075366
>Cypher has never missed
This is the kind of stuff that makes Marines so lame.

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>>52077239
Fight me

>>52077183
Got a vid link? I haven't seen a girl on their channel before outside of one fat girl that played Harlequins and got stomped.

>>52077219
it would give nobz i4 on the charge.

when i said a unit strength table i meant a table that would benefit all units. maybe an ork boy counts as 1 and a nob as 2 and you have to get over 10 for stubborn/fearless.

and orks should die in droves in combat. if you think they should be able to dispatch space marines with no trouble then i dont know what to tell you

>>52077242
Yeah I never got why Cypher has BS 10...but Maugan Ra and Illic Nightspear don't.

>>52077256
There is no arguing with willful ignorance. No amount of reason or math will pull your head out of your ass.

>>52077242
He is basically Tzeentch in human form, never makes an appearance unless he can disappear, never picks a fight he cant win, never pulls the trigger if it wont hit not to mention the plots within plots and general secrecy

>>52077256
Why even bother with a cad?

>>52077219
Please never even think of writing rules again

>>52077293
>people don't like unstoppable marine wank
>I know, I'll disprove them by showing even more absurd marine wankery

>>52076801
If I wanted a fantasy skirmish game I'd play warmachine.

Is the same reason I don't play infinity and play 40k instead.

I want a mid ground between skirimish and epic games.

>>52077118
1. Needs to be +2 initiative
2. Should let them re roll 1s on shooting or something. Orks are already fine on the Charge during Waagh
3. Have it based on wounds. If there's 10 wounds in a squad they're leadership 10. If they go to 11 or higher they're fearless. Bosspoles add a flat +3 or something to the total.
4. Random is fine, as long as there is a reward for the randomness. Ideally, the average should be better than is typical to make up for the fact they can whiff utterly
5. Big choppas being AP 4 is fine. You don't need to give all Orks AP 5 by default though. Instead, add more weapons to the melee weapons list to help make use of their improved initiative on the charge. At the very least give them basic power weapons

>>52077289
Not ignorance shootas are obviously good.

But boys are shit and just because we have one fairly ok gun platform doesn't make up for every other shooting in our army being complete abysmal.

Boys are shit so shootas pros or cons are irrelevant.

>>52077298
Because I run legal lists

>>52077306
I didn't write any rules, thanks.

>>52077306
He might be that guy that thought +1 WS, T, and W was a reasonable klan trait.

>>52077322
Explain. I'm still reading the 40k rules while painting in pink

>>52077293
Yeah so...he is just a complete 'oh-so-special-always-gets-it-right' Marine?

Who should I ally into my Grey Knights?

>>52077340
>What is Herohammer

>>52077346
Noise marines

>>52076203
Its Roh-Beau and not even GW can make me believe otherwise

>>52077346
Eldar Wraith Knight, Warp Spiders, Jetbike scatter Spam and a Riptide wing.

>>52077293
That's even stupider. They could have done a lot of things with Marine characters. As a base and as demi-god humans that are awesome, they are really cool.

But then they go and throw a wrench into everything that could have been cool or interesting and make them have the most boring personalities possible while making their abilities totally stupid.

>>52077353
No its Robert.

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Thin your paints

>>52077346
Sisters of Battle and Bloodletters

>>52077322
Shoota Boyz, Mek Gunz, Lootas, Kans, Koptas, Buggies, the planes, tankbustas, and Looted Wagons are all decent gun platforms. Yes, there are some absolutely awful shooting units (the big nauts and flash gitz spring to mind), but shooting isn't really a pressing concern across the codex.

>>52077346
imperial guard.
assassins.

>>52077256
Penitent Engines could defeat that no problem.

That is pretty sad

>>52077380
Nah mate I'll fucking ram you

>>52077367
I try, your grace, but it's difficult to tell what's too thin or too thick until I've already gotten underway.

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Which of these 6 should I enter in a Character painting contest this weekend?

>>52077380
>A walker with an armor value could easily defeat an army of infantry with no anti-tank weapons

What's sad about that?

>>52077256
drop the second cad, get some upgrades and maybe a few extra vehicles/walkers/specialist units in there and I'd play against that no problem

would be super fun, and I'd get fucking murdered

>>52077346
>>52077378

All 4. At the same time. All in, my daemonhunting nigga.

>>52077399
The orc guy definitely, he'll snag your a bronze angel no problem

>>52077410
And AV11 Open Top Walker with no fleet.

Can't punch if to death of shoot it to death.

>>52077256
>Trukks with nothing in them

just run deffcoptas instead for objective grabbing

>>52077431
Afraid not mate, Trukks are the best point for point transport with or without cargo.

>>52077430
Yah. I'm wondering why you're surprised at this. An entire army of Eldar Guardians with no weapon platforms would fare exactly the same. Is that also sad?

>>52077452
>Trukks are the best point for point transport

But you arent transporting anything

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>>52076949
>That enjoyment you thought you were having? yeah you weren't actually having fun

Or you could not be a cunt to the guy, but whatever. Modern /tg/ in a nutshell

>>52077462
Who needs to? Point efficient.

>>52077348
Retarded and unlikable, that's what.

There's a reason everyone thinks the fluff in Gathering Storm is shit and Forge World books are way better.

>>52077470

he's right though

>>52077066
>stop removing casualties from the front
Removing casualties from the front fucked all the assault armies, but especially 'Nids and Orks. They now lose several inches of forward movement a turn, and can easily lose several inches of charge movement to overwatch. It's very gamist, but letting you remove casualties from wherever you like solves this issue and also lets you be a bit sloppier with moving models around, which will greatly increase rate of play.

>make it so that mob rule is no longer a hindrance
Basically, Orks should have mediocre leadership and that's the extent of their morale downsides. Mob rule should be nothing but positives. Maybe key if off unit size AND the number of friendly units within X inches. That way big units of boyz are empowered by their own numbers, but the aspect boyz don't get fucked over for being inherently smaller in unit size.

>unfuck their decurion
Perma-waaagh as long as the warlord is alive is a nice benefit, but they need more. Maybe FNP(6+) across the army? Let it stack with FNP, but knock Cybork back to an invuln.

There are a lot of other unit-by-unit adjustments needed, but these would be some big changes that would help a bit. The first one in particular I think would be a good change for the game as a whole.

>>52077470
I didn't say he wasn't having fun. People can have fun reading shit. They would have even more fun reading something quality.

>>52077375
It is when two of those choices conflict with Warbikers (though admittedly Warbuggies are incredible), and the others are all Heavy Support and getting in the way of Mek Gunz save for Shoota boys which are shit compared.

Our problem is we don't have shooting that is spread out and for the most part our Elite section is bone dry.

This wasn't an issue when Lootas in all their shit unwarranted glory were elites, but now you have to sacrifice a hell of a lot of field just to maybe operate at similar army levels.

Flash gits at 20-22 point with BS3 always and 4+ save in Elite would improve a lot of our downfalls.

>>52077210
in total you need to read
Descent of Angels
Fallen Angels
The Lion
several DA/NL novellas and short stories that set both DA involment in IS and Lion
and FINALLY you read AoC
there's also a short story about Cypher and Zahariel dealing with the Ouroboros

all in all I had to use 1d4chan's guide plus external ones to be able to follow the entire deal but for me it has been worth it

>>52077462
He's a shitposter. Any time he (or the other shitposters that promulgate that image) actually tries to argue that shootas or trukks are shit they promptly get BTFO, so he/they resort to just posting that image and shitposting.

>>52077568
>Gets btfo
>Responses are simply NUH-UH

Shootas are good, boys are shit.

Trukks are shit because they only transport Boys, and boys are shit.

>>52076313
salamanders are cucks their entire chapter is basically gone

>>52077568
Also the original shit post was because someone said Shoota Boys are as point efficient as Scatbikes which I just found hilarious and too good of an opportunity to not hyperbole the shit out of it.

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>>52077581

>This weapon is good, its just the unit using them is bad

>>52077581
Not him but you're actually agreeing with him.

That's what we try to explain to said shitposter.

Thing is, try telling that to the HURR EFFICIENCY Orkfag and he'll tell you that shootas and trukks are both intrinsically shit even if boyz were amazing, and when you post the hard math to prove otherwise he'll just repeat "BUILD ME A TOURNAMENT WINNIG ORK LIST" over and over no matter how many times you explain what the actual problems are with the Ork Codex that prevent people from doing that.

>>52077602
remember, making shootas assault 3 would break the game beyond repair

>>52077280
>Yeah I never got why Cypher has BS 10...but Maugan Ra and Illic Nightspear don't.

Man made Assassins have better WS and BS than Phoenix Princes.

>>52077629
Agree, which is why we need Lootas / Flashgits to be BS3.

>>52077602
The shitposter was the guy who said that. He was being sarcastic due to butthurt after I did the mathhammer to show him shootas are better than tacticals.

>ork posting
so, what do you think about burnaz?

>>52077561
Thanks for the list, but I doubt that I'll actually get around to reading the shit that I missed. I rarely read HH/BL, and the Thramas Crusade and Imperium Secundus both feel like drawn-out filler crap to me. I'm also not a huge fan of the Lion OR the Luther secession shit, I just like the marines based on Arthurian knights vibe that the Dark Angels have.

What's up with Astelan? I skimmed through the Lexicanum article for him, and it seems kinda convoluted and stupid. Apparently he ends up teaming up with 40k Typhus to make neo-marines?

>>52076313
it's funny b/c Space Marines are the second most fedora-tier army that exists

>>52077649
Amazing and underused.

>>52077115
I thought it was a mix of mortar and mortem.

>>52077629
No one said it would break the entire game beyond repair you dumb faggot, but they did do the math to prove that it's obviously way too fucking good.

>>52077649
Burnas are my choice for melee, I rarely use them in shooting unless obvious hordes are just sitting there.

3 S4 AP 3 attacks can take down most things and you strike before Power Fisted SM's ensuring its pretty much guaranteed your PK is surviving at least another turn.

>>52077648
What were your perimeters for determining that?

Max strength shoota squad?

Did you calculate how many models the Shoota squad has to lose before its not (assuming you used comparative points for squad size.

>>52077705
Point per point.

>>52076745
>finally
Late, but I actually ordered one of these like a year or two ago. It was alright, but it came severely warped and needed a ton of reshaping and gap filling. Other than that it was pretty stable. Shipping took fucking forever but to be fair it was international. Honestly I've heard mixed reviews about ChapterHouse but it worked out alright for me. I wouldn't even consider owning a Stormraven without converting it like that.

On the table it's okay. Not as good as it used to be because more factions have AA now, so putting dudes in it is a riskier prospect. I have had some success with some cheap VVs and an Ironclad, though.

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>its an ork episode

>>52077556
So the issue has nothing to do with shooting, it has to do with stupid force org layout. Easy, move Lootas and/or Tankbustas into Elites. Done.

>>52077637
That's so dumb. I don't even understand how they let that happen. Every random Callidus is more skilled than every Phoenix Lord ever?

Then again so are Succubi. These stats make no sense.

>>52077672
>do the math


did that math also include the probability of fucking boyz making it to within 18" of an enemy?

>>52077174
I'm sick of this stupid meme. And it's not just night haunters, fucking neckbeards call everything Batman.

>Night lords use fear and bat symbolism, they must be batman
>This dude is good at science, he's basically Batman
>My DnD character is good at fighting, that makes him batman
>Look, a thing, it must be Batman

I'm banning the word Batman at all of my groups future gaming nights, fucking sick of this shit. I'd rather have Monty Python memes back.

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>Didnt give cypher Chain Fire

How good is Militarum Tempestus? A friend has a spare codex for it and I figured I might be able to start playing them.

I've been seeing people say that 1d4 isn't reliable, so I figured I might as well ask here.

>>52077776
If devilgaunts can manage it I think boyz can with +1 toughness and less points per model.

>>52077797
>If devilgaunts can manage it
Tyranids also have drop pods

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>>52077777
Quints of absolute fucking truth I literally cannot agree more, well except Python memes being funny, which they are until that one asshole KEPT spamming them

>>52077732

Do you fear / worry about Ork shooting phases? Like at all? If your answer is no there's the problem.

And the answer is simple. Not reliable, no re-rolls, and low AP save for Mek Gunz.

Not to mention fucking big shootas everywhere which do jack all.

>>52077777
Calm down Nurgle.

>>52077777
quints confirmed for batman

>>52077815
That are 75 points a pop so basically no one takes them.

If we got Drop Pods that costed the same as Marines that would be a different story.

>>52077399
The one with the squig. That red is a great contrast for the green

>>52077837
I would fucking kill for a 75 point drop pod as orkz

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>>52077777
>77777

Check'd

>>52077796
The 1d4 article for tempestus is actually not bad. Probably because theres so little to fuck up. Tempestus are a fast paced and fun army to play, except in a game don't expect to win against anyone in middle or upper tiers

Also
>spare codex
Are you lucky enough that its hardback and not paperback?

>>52077777
Hey, nothing wrong with Monty Python memes, knave.

>>52077654
in reality it makes sense that it barely makes sense

in short Lion is a huge autist when it comes to dealing with non combatants or pretty much anyone that can't/doesn't want to follow his logic which causes strains between his own legion and the other legions of IS, which is nothing more than a showcase of Guilliman's logic turned wrong, as he assumed the worst case scenario having no way of knowing if Terra was still loyal or the Emperor alive he made a backup empire to retake the lost.

Meanwhile Cypher and later Luther are playing poker with the entire of Caliban including the Legions, as it ends up, the Caliban DA divide in several microfactions that start fighting amongst eachother, Astelan being the representative of loyal to the Emperor but hates both Lion and Luther, in the end his wish to retake the fight makes him accept Typhus' deal.

In reality to fully understand his specific story you need to read the 40k lord of Caliban series.

tl:dr DA theme is EVERYONE IS CONSPIRING AGAINST EVERYONE meaning that finding the truth is harder than cleaning a nurglelite

>>52076133

Mine killed a land raider once, but that's about it. I don't run them very often.

>>52077850
GIVE ROKKS

>>52077815
Who the fuck buys a sporepod for gants?

>>52077776
I want to play games in the meta where literally every ork dies before it makes it within 18" of an enemy model.

>>52077850
I'll never understand why Orks don't get Roks.

>>52076194
Well, Deathwing Knights are pretty cool. It might be worth using the DA dex for those.

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>>52077777
NANI

>>52077850
I wouldn't mind dropping roks on people.

>>52077536
Just remove overwatch all together. Armies that have special rules for overwatch like Tau or Dank Angels just gain normal overwatch instead. And don't let them use any other weapons than assault, pistol or rapid fire

>>52077777
can understand the association with the Night Lords, but the rest?

>>52077860
>>52077865
Its never going to fucking happen because nobody would buy a rokk model, they would just use actual rocks

Dear Gork/Mork,

Here is my list of wants for Orks:

>Squadrons for Deff Dreads
>Squadrons for Battle Wagons
>Squadrons for Looted Wagons (please bring back Boom Guns)
>Plastic Squiggoths with Squadron
>Leadership 8
>Point reduction on Nobs or improved armour saves

Kind regards,

Grot #3231258768456352221

>>52077593
>>>/pol/

>>52077884
>Get rid of overwatch
>But don't for the armies that only now benefit from overwatch

????

>>52077850
It doesn't really accomplish much, though, so I don't know why.

You can't charge out of it, you snapshot heavy weapons when you come out of it, the only reason they're even good for space marines is because they cost half that much (or nothing at all in the right Formations) AND they have melta/plasma spam or skyhammer grav come out.

>>52077853
Nope, paperback. Why, is there a difference?

>>52077894
>Implying I wouldn't use easter eggs instead of roks

>>52077898
>you can't have squadrons of deff dreads
this is such fucking ballistic skill
you can have squadrons of FFFFFFFUCKING RIPTIDES AND NOT DEFF DREADS WAAAAAAAAAAAGH

>>52077898
I wouldn't mind boom guns again. But yeah squadrons would make their shit a lot better.
Another think orks need is the deff rolla crushing people with Str 10 AP 2 2d6 attacks.

>>52077857
I don't really get what the point of the Lion is. He's, as you said, pretty much autistic in his interpersonal relations, and his vaunted powers of reason and tactical genius have resulted in him spending the vast majority of the HH series playing hide-and-seek with one of the shittiest of the traitor primarchs. He's just so thoroughly unsympathetic.

>>52077898
What you will get:

>Ork/Tyranid duumvirate
>formation that requires five units of warriors or boyz for shit benefits
>shit characters
>"funny" artifacts with dumb random downsides

>>52077737
It fits the narrative. Eldar are pompous dick heads that are married to their shitty traditions. Imperium do whatever the fuck they need to win, but are massive hipocrits

>tfw you know in your heart that orks will still be bad even after 40k gets Sigmar'd

>>52077926
>wanting squadrons so that your opponent can erase 3 models with gravcannons in a single shooting phase instead of 1
What the fuck game are you playing, you retard. No one ever groups up models like that if they can avoid it. MSU is the only viable meta.

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>>52077900
Get out

What's the fluff in Rise of the Primarch like? How good/bad is it?

>>52077536
>Basically, Orks should have mediocre leadership and that's the extent of their morale downsides.

Never understood this.

Ork boys should have shit leadership yes, but their Warbosses + Nobs of which their entire society follows without doubt should also have shit leadership?

The simple and non-retarded fix is give higher leadership! Warboss 10, Nobs 8, Ghazghkull fearless + fearless aura.

cypher a good or a bad?
wat do

>>52077914
Nah theres no significant difference. The hardback codex was only available for about a year or two before they switched to paperback. I think they included some FAQ/errata fixes in the paperback though. I just like the hardback codices better

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>>52077962
>Gathering Storm
Hope you don't have high standards.

>>52077894
>Your opponent can't win if you crush his Riptide with a rock.

>>52077884
I could see scrapping it in general and keeping it in some format for Tau, but I'd rather see them find some other gimmick for Dark Angles. It was kind of a strange thing to foist upon them in 7E, and the way it became their primary formation AND detachment benefit was both lazy and stupid.

>>52077898
>Squadrons for Deff Dreads
also squadrons of dreadnoughts should act like the 30k squadrons, in that they can still run around individually

t. man who runs three venerable dreadnoughts

>>52077962
Read it for yourself

>>52077962
Cypher sent Janus back in time to create the ritual that birthed Emperor.

>>52077957
Your first mistake was assuming Orks operate like any other army.

We need squadrons because no moron is going to take 3x Deff Dreads when he needs to fit in Mek Gunz / Battlewagons

>>52077904
Yes are you having difficulty understanding?
Remove Tau supporting fire, and give the "overwatch" rule to units that had supporting fire, do the same with whatever the Dark Angel rule is called.

>>52077962
The same as the last two GS books.

Which is to say, shit, that condenses a setting of unimaginable massive scope that's supposed to be about titanic worldshaking wars into a crowded tiny little space where legendary 1-in-a-quadrillion-souls heroes keep arbitrarily running into each other and having swordfights then fucking off and repeating the process forever.

>>52077995
Where?

>>52078003
Take a second CAD.

Or, if you're asking for changes, ask for a legitimate Decurion, so you DO work like other armies, instead of being stuck in the FoC of 2 editions ago while everyone else is playing 7th.

I can't believe the rules for the fallen and formation haven't leaked yet. Seems like usually it's all leaked well ahead of release.

>>52077957
deff dreads are completely useless in the current ork meta because they compete for a spot with mek gunz, which are practically the best thing in current edition orks, and battlewagons, which are basically our only remotely useful tankish vehicle. Deff dreads NEED squadrons to be even usable

>>52077984
What a strange hodgepodge of media that is. A shitty MS paint drawing of a scene from a shitty British sci-fi model advertisement, based on a shitty MS paint drawing of a shitty Japanese young adult urban fantasy novel.

>>52078009
Wait til someone posts a downloadable pdf or go buy it

>>52078033
>Take a second CAD
>For 3 individual Deff Dreads.

Jesus....

>>52078007
Well of course the main characters are going to get the most attention and said main characters are also going to be attracted to the biggest events going on in the galaxy. I think the problem that GS has is like what Arch keeps saying, GW is moving the event along too fast when they should be producing a large line of HH-tier books for this shit.

>>52078047
Poor, sweet, summer Ork child.

It's like, your Codex is so shit you're not even on the level where you're aware of how bullshit grav is because EVERYTHING is like grav to you, but if you got buffs that brought you up to a decent level you would understand.

Putting Deff Dreads in a squadron is just making a juicier target for your opponent to delete without effort.

>>52078099
So...what grav does to current Deff Dreads but now it has the benefit of removing that slot from the game even faster because its only got 1 100+ point Deff Dread in it.

Mk.

>>52078099
Your a condescending cunt, but you aint wrong

>>52078050
>Japanese young adult urban fantasy novel
u fuckin wot

it's from a comedy television skit

>>52077151
>nitpicking shit with false info
Kill yourself, 1d4 babby

>>52078114
>thinking in slots
Jesus fuck do you only run a single HQ? What are you doing? You have GROTS, the cheapest tax troop in the game, double your fucking CADs.

Far better to lose 1 deff dread to their grav than all 3 at once because the extra damage overflows to the rest of the squadron.

>>52077786
That would imply they changed his profile, instead of the copy-paste job they did from the Cypher Datasheet.

>>52078078
Why are people so afraid of Double CADs?

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>They actually recall HellTalons and HellBlades in a GW book
>Weird

>>52076168
So am I reading this wrong or do the Fallen have no special rules on their own unless they're in formation with Cypher (Infiltrate) and within 12" from him (ATSKNF+???) and they're 20 points for a bolter and a 3+ save ? What a joke.

Hope to god this fallen/loyalist shit ends up in loads of chapters getting squatted in 8th
Tired of 100 flavours of marines
Fuck off

>>52076675
This was all originally described as ash.
Pre 00's gw didn't want blacks in warhammer, but now intervening models give cover save so they have to put a few bodyguards in.

>>52078132
Is it really? I've only ever seen the Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria version, so I assumed that was the source.

>>52078114
Could just run deff mobs from the IA.

>>52078099
Grav exists because they didn't want to nerf eldar. GW took a page out of blizzards book for game balance. If something is retardedly OP, just make something else that's retardedly OP instead of fixing the first thing

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>>52078047
>the current ork meta
>meta
>orks

>>52076080
Indeed

>>52078165
>the scrolling board
there was a mission like that in the older editions

Every turn, you'd move everything on the board (including terrain) 6" in one direction. Supposed to represent a running battle. Was nifty as fuck.

>>52078007
Apart from the Admech guy, who apparently continues to command battles on actually reasonable scales and fix important shit that only he realistically can instead of joining the fucking Imperial Power Rangers, and thus continues to prove that the Mechanicus is best faction. Probably because Archmagi duelling would be hella hard to write well unless it was a Forge of Mars style mirror match where they can go all Matrix on each other.

Also why Primarchs suck, as half of them are known almost entirely for being good individual fighters, which is not exactly the best of traits for a general. Angron, Russ, the Lion, a couple others in most situations you actually need Astartes, all almost or completely useless for a galactic war.

>>52077926
It's more a legacy thing. In the beginning of 7e you couldn't even squadron Dreadnoughts.

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So many Sisters
I started painting them as the order of our martyred lady but I'm no longer so sure about my choice

>>52078177
I also hope dark angels get squatted

>>52078195
A. Grav existed before Eldar Wraithshits.
B. Grav is stronger on average than Eldar Wraithshits against more targets.

Grav exists because they wanted to sell new models and force Marine players to replace all their las/plas devastators and long fangs.

>>52078183
shit dude, google card crusher

is this the generational gap at work? How old is card crusher now?

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>>52076126

Consider yourself lucky,
I painted most part of the army and realised i didnt actually like that army.

It was cadians btw, now i switched over to the DKK

>>52078213
I feel like this could actually be fairly viable against the right army lists. Just hide the grots on objectives and run the Dreds up the board, at least some of them are going to make it into combat. Can Big Meks repair hull points like tech priests??

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>>52078142
>>52078156

Got it, boss.

Attempt 3 because formatting

>>52078215
I want to play them so badly but the cost is just insane.

>>52078238
Well if you're just going to be a bitch about it why don't you fuck off? I'm talking about double CADs in general. It seems like there's this huge taboo about them. But for us weaker armies they're sometimes the best choice.

>>52078254
Of course Meks can repair.

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>>52078215
>order of our martyred lady

It's the iconic scheme for a reason, looks damn good with the red/white/black combination. imo.

So what's the better investment for Black Templars, the Space Marine Armored Assault or Dark Angels Armored Assault box?

>>52078204
The Lion is supposed to be a tactical/strategic genius. Like "could have been War Master if he wasn't a giant sperg" tier.

>>52078273
Then this might be hilariously viable unless you get actively list tailored against.

I mean it's not going to win any games vs Eldar but mid-tier.

>>52078177
I hope we get two Dark Angel codexes, loyalists and the Fallen.

>>52076203

Almost correct but try saying it while dropping the ''w''
(Ro-)(boo)(tay)

>>52078271
No complaining here, valid list.

15 Deff Dreads 12/12/10

90 BS2 Big Shoota Shots at 36" range.

10 MSU Grots objective sitting.

Repair abilities.

>>52078254
yes they can

I've always said "Robeau".

>>52077884
moronic

>>52078308
Well I didn't think this was supposed to be a valid list.

>>52078330
It's a french name, the o is silent. Just pronounce it row-bute

>>52078340
Overwatch has never bought anything good to the game you faggot. It's a stupid rule that penalizes you for trying to melee in a game that is supposed to glorify melee.

>>52078359
But wouldn't you shoot at a group of green hooligan monsters if they were charging at you?

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>>52078293
>viable

>>52078294
I hope they condense all spehs muhreens into a single codex and speshul snowflake chapter #12362 are relegated to White Dwarf suplements.

>>52078354
Nope, phonetically it's "mare-EE soo"

>>52078165
holy fuk

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>>52078287
pic related

>>52078236
Huh, learn something new every day.

The meme fit Hakomari so well (since the dude does literally crush boxes with his hand) that I assumed it was the genesis.

>>52078394
1d4chan fags please leave

>>52078287
My bad, then. I didn't know because no-one ever remembers the 1st Legion, sorry guys.

I always preferred the "Ancient, massively overhyped after 10k years" dudes who were actually just regular Astartes generals who were good at their jobs. Having them all magically be unstoppable geniuses who out-strategy anything for no reason is a bit of a pain, because if you ever have them lose to anything not another Primarch everyone starts massively bitching. Especially in 30k, where for some reason if you kill the other dude's spess dad with anything other than a giant deathstar fight it's RAEG time. Funny as hell, though.

>>52078359
>penalizes you for trying to melee

Yeah, surprisingly, charging at a bunch of guys with guns screaming and waving axes does have consequences.

>>52078377
No I'd pull out my stabbing knife and get ready for glorious melee battle because I realize I'm in a game world that glorifies that shit. 40k isn't supposed to make sense.

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>>52076701

It can be interesting to play it in the Bolt Action style turn based instead of i go you go style turn based.
For those who may not know, in bolt action every player puts as much dice as he has units into a bag. These dice are colored for each player. When the game starts one of the players pull out a dice from the bag and according to whose dice that was that player acts with that unit(move-shoot etc. all included)

>>52078415
It's a game.

>>52078359
>Sci fi game with guns
>It's clearly a melee game

They really need to cut the random shit out of orks. BS2 is suffering enough without your massive supa-dakka-spewers firing one or two shots apiece in the first place

>>52078398
Sure, in practive he mostly just broods and jobs and fails to understand human interaction, but he's not supposed to be one of the "sure he's good at fighting but why the fuck is he in charge of prosecuting a military campaign" primarchs.

>>52078359
cannot decide if you're an ork player or a nid one

>>52078416
The knife should already be at the end of your gun, soldier!

>>52076203
I just watched it and kek'd so hard I snorted.

>>52078425
That sounds pretty awful. Get an army the relies on movement and lose your dice? You're fucked.

I think it would be more interesting to have both players just flat out take their turn at the same time, one unit at a time.

>>52078441
she must be ork then

>>52078416
squads should have the option of gaining counterattack if they choose not to overwatch

Any leaks to new GK rules, formation and Voldus?

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>>52078425
Correction, the player whose dice is pulled acts with any one of his units he likes. But only one unit. Than another dice is pulled from the bag and so on.

It gives a good advantage to armies with huge amounts of units and it can stop the deathstar armies, forcing them to pick up more troops.

It also stops the huge issue of an army annihilating the good portion of the enemy army on turn 1. Or idiotic bullshit like entire armies starting in reserve.

>>52078441
>Spacelaser pew-pew gun 40.000

>>52078413
>I always preferred the "Ancient, massively overhyped after 10k years" dudes who were actually just regular Astartes generals who were good at their jobs.
When was that canon?

I don't have any problem with the idea behind the primarchs, but GW's execution has largely been shit.

>>52078415
nigga it's fiction. If I wanted realism I wouldn't be playing the game about fucking demons and hordes of bug monsters and green dudes who reproduce through farting and who make their vehicles go faster by putting red paint on them. lots of realism is needed in this game about spaceships that fight each other like ships from the fucking age of sail, and their navigators are all wizards. lots of realism required there, yup. no fun allowed, ever

>>52078413
Going to have to disagree, I like them being secular gods for the Emperor's atheistic empire.

That said, the amount of lazy writing the HH series produced where Primarchs flawlessly predict their enemy's every move simple 'because they're Primarchs and like, super smart' is terrible.

Know No Fear is one of my favourite books in the series purely because it shows, rather than tells, exactly how Primarchs are post-human generals.

>>52078276
Dark Angels. You get more stuff for the same price

>>52078446
>>52078462
It's clearly a space marine player that is ass blasted he didn't get to destroy everyone in melee, like space marines have consistently done for years before overwatch was added

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>>52078456

I have 15 units, you have 10 units.
We start playing, after you palyed your 10th unit now i can alpha strike you with my remaining 5 units.

Please refer to here >>52078472 for clarification.

>>52078441
>melee rules involve more stats and are more complex than shooting rules
>melee combat is a major staple in the artwork of every faction
>every faction has melee units
Melee is supposed to be a significant part of the game.

Do Guard have a bayonet charge order?

>>52078473
>have the option of bringing tanks and guns to battle
>decide to invest in swords and axes
>muh honour
Bringing swords to a gun fight is last samurai tier stupid.

>>52078446
>>52078462
>>52078504
Fucking Tau players.

>>52078520

The Death Korps have one

>>52078520
Yeah, gives them Furious Charge if I'm not mistaken

>>52078518
>artwork clearly depicts epic fluff battles with tens of thousands of soldiers on the same field
>actual game is 30-80 soldiers an average per team
You deserve every 6 that was rolled to hit you

>>52078541

The Death Korps also have better WS to start with

>>52078538
careful bitch, im a chaos player

>>52078467
Why give even more bonuses for being the one NOT initiating the combat?

>>52078472
Reaper's warlord basically did the same thing, but with a deck of cards. You got one card for each unit, shuffled them up, and then flipped over one card at a time. There were also special rules that gave you an extra card or allowed you to bury a card for a turn. Was tons of fun.

The big issue I see with implementing such a system in current 40k is that it would be a massive incentive for MSU-style armies, which already dominate (crazy deathstars notwithstanding).

>>52078480
Where did I say realism? Internal consistency doesn't have anything to do with realism, it's about whether something is believable.

Unless 40k has an in-universe excuse for why highly-trained warriors simple stand there and pick their noses as a mob of Orks crosses the 50 metres between them waving axes in a threatening manner, overwatch makes sense.

I'm sorry if overwatch has botched your dreams of steamrolling pansy-ass shooty armies with your manly assault units, but it's a fluffy addition to the game and helps to balance things better on the crunch side too, compared to earlier editions where it was basically 'can the shooty army kill the choppy army before they get within 12" and shooty gets tabled?' every game.

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>>52077962

It is shit, just ignore it.

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So, Cypher is the same as before, as predicted.

>>52078538
No I play templars and love melee. But I don't get ass ravaged when someone shoots me in the face instead of meeting me mid field.

>>52078518
>Melee is supposed to be a significant part of the game.

And it is.

You act like overwatch has made assault impossible.

>>52078546
1,000,000% savage

>>52078579
tfw you cant read whatever meme language that is

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He's a really nice grandmaster, but 240pts is like 40-60 too much.

>>52078560
No, you're a shitposter that, in all likelihood, doesn't play the game.