/osrg/ - OSR General

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>>52053177
>>52053193
>>52053248
I'm sad that I posted my lengthy bit on "training dungeons" just before the last thread fell off the board. Oh well. Any thoughts on "dungeon as a training tool" design?

>>52053570
I think it's a great way to introduce new people to OSR

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Little 'former occupation' table with inherent perks I threw together for LotFP.

>>52053873
I like this. Will be using to see how it works in the future!

>>52053955
>Heroic-Fantasy
OSR handles every thing you listed *except for* heroic fantasy.
The main genre it tries to emulate is Swords & Sorcery.

>>52053873
Is 48 Wig & mustache, or wig + mustache? What is that weird symbol? The & is present elswere on this page so I'm confused

>>52054577
It's the italicized form of & from the font. Since it was surrounded by other italicized words, it accidentally did to.

>>52054593
I like it

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Rolled 13 (1d50)

>>52053873
>Hunter
>12 Apostles

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>>52054698
Belted gunpowder vials.

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>>52053873
>46. Servant
>+1 Open Doors

>>52053873
>1d6 bricks.
That's not even a wall!
Ought to be ((1d6)d6)d6 bricks.
Or maybe just give them a wall.

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I was inspired last couple of days and made a little meme OSR game.

I might fill out some DM guide, beastiary or something if need be. Hope at least one person enjoys it.

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>>52053521

Are OSR games strictly restricted to Heroic-Fantasy games or do we find other genres as well ? (Cyberpunk, Space Opera, Horror, Post-Apo)

If so could you give me names of good OSR non-Heroic-Fantasy games ?

>>52054843
as >>52054404 said, its a pretty open Genre

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>>52054843
I'm currently writing/playtesting my OSR hack 'Ruinations'. It's post-apocalyptic (LotFP meets Mutant Future).
>https://www.docdroid.net/FrxCKOl/ruinations.pdf.html
Got some mechanical bit's I've adjusted but haven't written down yet.

Mechanations of the Space Princess is a well done Sci-Fi OSR.
Carcosa is weirdo gonzo Science-Fantasy stuff.
Mutant Crawl Classics (post-apoc) looks like it's gonna be a blast.
Silent Legions is a rad little Call of Cthuhlu-esque system from Sine Nomine.
Currently there is no cyberpunk OSR that really scratches my itch for it, but Purple Mowhawk is cool.

>>52054843 c >>52054380

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>>52053765
Thanks. It seems to have worked reasonably well. I'll post the 2nd part of the writeup sometime tomorrow.

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>>52053521
>How much randomness do you like in your games?
A fair bit. I like random monster rolls, rolling for character generation and crazy, kooky rolls for things like "what's in this 6-mile hex?"

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Session 1, Part 2 writeup is on the blog.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/

Find out how Tito the Toadling Assassin lost his shirt, his dignity, and his toe.

How important is dungeon ecology to you?

>>52056158
Depends.

>>52056158
It's neat, but unnecessary.
Dungeon politics are essential tho.

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What's everyone's opinion on Grey Matter and Gray Six? They both seem interesting but fuck all there is a lot to each...

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Here's a first version of B&X, a unified reference doc for B/X.

They are a straight copy-paste of both rulesets, except keeping the modifications of Expert.Except ascending AC.

There's still lots of typos and monsters and spells need proofing. Let me know if you find anything strange.

>>52056592
Decent attempt at making a fuckton-of-classes OSR game, if that's your thing. There's also a fuckton of races, monsters, etc.

I remember Grey Matter mostly just having that and mass combat rules, while Grey Six is geared at low-level play, up until level - you guessed it, six. It also introduces proficiences (skills), talents (feats), themes (archetypes), backgrounds and status effects. And everything out of this list is enough to make a good portion of this general scream in agony.

But that's not my thing either. If you absolutely need some inspiration for modern classes in an OSR setting, check it out.

Has anyone actually ran or played in an ACKS game from adventurer play up to domain level play? How was it?

>>52057403
also curious. My group started a game with that intent but it fizzled when we got to ~lvl4 and lost a couple of levels to wraiths. It was demoralising to the group.

The domain level stuff was the only part of ACKS that interested me and I'd like to know how it turns out at the table.

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>>52057061
This is a really cool idea.

>-ascending AC! Sue me.
You should really have all the original stuff in there. There's no point in going 99.9% of the way there and then screwing up the authenticity in the last .1%. It's not that I'm that much of a purist, but if you want "essentially B/X with tweaks" there are already plenty of games out there. The unique thing about this is that it's literally B/X, only consolidated. And if, for instance, we're discussing B/X on /tg/, if the rules in your system are identical, then I can just use it. Otherwise, I might have to jump back and forth between the systems (AC and to-hit are rather important, and bound to come up a decent bit), and if that's the case, I'm gonna just use the original stuff.

You couldn't include the stuff side-by-side? Attack bonuses for classes could easily go on the class tables (beside hit dice and such) and be marked as "variant" or some such thing. Shit, you could even put THAC0 there as well, and relegate attack tables to an appendix (you honestly wouldn't *need* attack tables at all, but they'd be nice for that extra bit of authenticity). You'd still need a separate monster table, but it's not like that would take up much space. Armor would just need two columns (ascending and descending), and then there's just the matter of monsters, which could simply have both AC values (the only important thing there is to separate them by enough space so that they don't visually run together and remain easy to reference--see pic, for instance).

Anyway, you're gonna do what you wanna do, but I think your document will see wider use if it includes the original AC. (I'd honestly rather see ascending AC left out entirely, but I'm not the one going through the trouble of making the thing.)

>>52057525
Following up on this, have you considered affixing saving throws and to-hit/attack bonus to the class tables? You'd probably have to make them full-page, instead of doing two-columns, and maybe shade every third line or something so that people could easily tell what row everything was on, but it seems like it'd be handy to have everything in one place. That's if you're not trying to be a purist about format (which I could respect), but given your conversion to attack bonuses, I'm guessing that's not an issue.

>>52057061
>Ascending AC
>Ctrl+f "plate mail"
AC 17
>Hit's enter 5 times (6 of 7)
normal AC: 3 magical AC: 6

Witch is it?

>>52057061
>>52057525
>>52057548
Oh, and one last thing: a good bit of your text seems to be running together (the monster entry for "men" is pretty much incomprehensible, for instance, and many of the multiple-sub-entry monsters are similarly troubled), if you shrank your font size by one step and/or shrank your margins (there's a fair bit of white there--you could easily shrink them by well over half), that might do a world of good.

>>52054791
It's 1d6 x 2 half-bricks, just need to find some socks.

>>52057061
I'd just like to say, this would be nice to have, in many respects, for my group. Looking forward to the completed text.

>>52057525
Ty, I'll consider making a version with descending AC, but honestly who cares? Grogs already know each value like a prayer, or wing it. Conversion on the fly it's super easy too.
I'll probably release a pdf with the monsters and another with the spells, so I might do a descending alt version.

>>52057525
>>52057548
As for the tables, yeah I could. But I'm trying to keep it close to the original in term of presentation - tables stay as they are; new stuff goes into a new table. I'm not a purist, but I think a lot of people will appreciate to see familiar tables.
If you need a super-cheatsheet, your approach is perfect (and my original intention) but out of the scope of this doc. Not a bad thing to have on the last page, tho. We'll see.

THAC0 is a no-no.

>>52057556
>>52057594
>>52058183
Ty, will take a look at that asap.
If you can point me to what specific entries are messed up that would help a lot.

>>52058631
>As for the tables, yeah I could. But I'm trying to keep it close to the original in term of presentation - tables stay as they are; new stuff goes into a new table. I'm not a purist, but I think a lot of people will appreciate to see familiar tables.
>If you need a super-cheatsheet, your approach is perfect (and my original intention) but out of the scope of this doc. Not a bad thing to have on the last page, tho. We'll see.
dig

That one guy who keeps making OD&D variants released Freebooters: http://originaleditionfantasy.blogspot.co.nz/2017/03/freebooters-is-now-available.html

Anybody check it out? Is it worth getting, or does it do weird shit like give pirates an AC based on the armor they wear?

>>52057061
Damn, you beat me to it.

Fix: PC to hit advancement should be +1/+3/+6/+8/+10

>>52057061
You aren't using the original page numbering scheme, so you shouldn't direct people to the original pages.

>>52054791
>1d1 wall(s)

>>52058631
>I'll consider making a version with descending AC
That would be awesome.

>but honestly who cares?
Me?

>Grogs already know each value like a prayer, or wing it.
That's an argument not to have a rule book at all.

>Conversion on the fly it's super easy too.
I guess. People specifically play retroclone X over retroclone Y because it either does or doesn't have ascending AC.

>>52059889
Thanks, are you 100% sure? You mean for the PCs "Class and Level Attack Bonus" table, right?
I've copied the values from somewhere else, but they looked correct to me when I proofed that part.

Btw, post what you have if you want, i'd love to take a peek. You were using markdown, right?

>>52060048
>-original page references stay, temporally
Updating all the references will be a pain in the ass, and I'd rather do it as a last step when all pieces are fixed, to reduce the chance of end up with hundreds of broken links/refs.

>>52053521
>played AD&D 1e for the first time last weekend
>DM is an old grognard who allows for pretty much any supplementary material ever published, even stuff from 30-year-old Dragon magazines
>only one player is on the same base as the DM as far as familiarity with the ins and outs of this edition
>so the party consists of normal fighters, thieves, and clerics, except for one totally broken half-elf psionicist who can clear the room at least twice per day with psionic blasts
>at the end of the last session, the DM threw 24 gnolls at us

Will our broken friend be enough to see us through?

>>52060048
>You aren't using the original page numbering scheme, so you shouldn't direct people to the original pages
He covers that at the beginning of the pdf. I think he just hasn't gotten around to renumbering everything.

>What is this?
>-D&D Basic unified with Expert, edited where they overlap
>-X has priority since it overrides some rules. Where it advises using Basic rules, they are included.
>-Simplified where possible without altering it. “1-6 (1d6)” is now simply “d6”
>-ascending AC! Sue me.
>-(maybe) typos and wonky tables.
>-original page references stay, temporally

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>>52054843
Hunter//Seeker for reworked Cyberpunk 2020.

Machinations of the Space Princess.
Mutant Future.
Under a Broken Moon (sp?) for Thundarr.

>>52060194
>Under a Broken Moon (sp?) for Thundarr.
Yes. It's spelled "moon".

>>52060165
Ha, it's nowhere near done, I'm still cleaning up the individual B and X files.

Now that yours is available, I might go for a stripped down reference version.

>>52057525
I would also support descending AC.

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Has anyone ever run the Bard's Tale games using OSR? Seems like a good fit for grognards.

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>>52060430

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>>52060437

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>>52060503

>>52060194
>>52060214
Speaking of Under a Broken Moon, anyone have those files? Can't find them in the treasure trove and I don't have the shekels.

>>52060249
Ditto. I think it's a stupid mechanic, but as the first anon widely pointed out, the only niche you have is pure B/X final destination, which is one people would actually appreciate. There's already a zillion B/X hacks that change one or more things; with even one small change you'll get lost in the crowd.

Nonetheless, thanks for the effort and good luck with the final product.

>>52060164
damn, just say your lazy and be done with it. No need to comment on 4 different points just to say "I can't be bothered"

I'm curious as to just how much of innovation you want/can accept in an OSR? Maybe "what kind" of innovation might be a better way of phrasing it.

The reason I'm asking is that OSR to me is "rules-light but not story gaming" rather than "D&D simulator". Along those lines, I'm writing a retroclone that heavily alters character creation, because I think old-school D&D sucks at emulating a lot of classic fantasy it draws its inspiration from, and is often cumbersome where it doesn't need to be (violating that rules-light spirit). At the same time, I love how it is happy winging so much of adventuring, without getting bogged down in adjudicating every last aspect of it. But I wonder if it would be accepted as OSR; to me it is, but then maybe someone sees a simple feat or skill system or what have you and hisses like a vampire in front of a cross.

Thoughts?

>>52060685
>and hisses like a vampire in front of a cross.
Grognards are turned as Vampires? I would have guessed Ghoul at best.

>>52060710
Properly I should have classified them as greater and lesser grogs; my apologies.

>>52060685
>I love how it is happy winging so much of adventuring, without getting bogged down in adjudicating every last aspect of it [...] but then maybe someone sees a simple feat or skill system

Well see, the latter opposes the former. Adding skills and feats and whatnot bogs down the game in adjudication and number-crunching, which goes against the spirit of OSR adventuring (if not designing).

To me OSR still has most of the DNA (at least 50%) of old school D&D, with some changes, tweaks and revisions to achieve different effects. It's not just "rules-light", because there are hundreds of those kind of games out there with no connection to the history of D&D.

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>>52057061
I'm not sure there's enough space between your paragraphs. Everything kind of runs together.

The intelligence table would be much better if it didn't wrap, or at least wrapped less. See pic. Is that the only difference between the tables, because the original is much easier to read. I guess the font of the original is more basic and bolder too.

The adjustment text on several of your ability tables are askew since there's a space between the pluses and the numbers and there isn't a space between the minuses and the numbers.

You can probably just put "no adjustment" rather than "no adjustment to hit points", "no adjustment due to strength", etc. I keeps things simpler and less junky.

I think there are a number of things that would look better being left-justified rather than centered. See the cleric entries in the pic, for instance. Also, whenever you can possibly avoid a row on a table taking up two lines, it would be much better (I realize even B/X does this with cleric, but it's still less than desirable). The spell charts are much more readable when there's no so much space between the levels (and the saving throws being all spaced out across the entire page is even worse). It's also better when they're on the same chart as hit dice and so forth.

The heading for weapons and equipment is on page 18, while the actual weapons and equipment begin on pg 19. Equipment and weapon table is easier to read when it's left-justified.

On page 24 and probably some other places, There is no space between any of the paragraphs / sections. Not sure if this was to try to fit things on the page better, but it makes it look like there's a wall of text.

Left-justify Monster Reactions.

Mercenary table on pg 34 needs hyphens where there is no entry so that you don't have numbers floating in outer space. Also, it would be much better if fewer of the entries took up multiple lines (or maybe if they all took two lines, even if that meant leaving blank spaces???).

>>52060685
I don't need another D&D clone when I have several good ones already, plus real D&D. A game that's as simple as OD&D but doing something different might actually provide something of value to me that I don't already have.

>>52060571
I think I only ever saw a webpage of it.

>>52060787
I meant the Crawling Under a Broken Moon Zine, sorry. >>52060571

>>52060176
Lol there's always one. I've still never messed with the Psionics in the back of the PHB. Just glancing at them frightens me.

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>>52060685
>"rules-light but not story gaming"

This is also what drew me to it, but the problem is that your next point directly contradicts this desire.

Adding in a little feat or skill system here or there is not a problem, but the more bulky your game gets the less it is about 'rules-lite story gaming'. Basically every rule should emphaize the asthetic you are going for. OSR is really great because it's one of those things that is almost completely boiled down to the most core and basic gameplay, aesthetic, lore and mechanic focused things.

To give you another example; if you wanted to make a really rules lite awesome game about gumshoe detective work and pulp noir stories; would you need an encumbrance system? No. It's not important to that type of game. However OSR encumbrance rules, simple or not, are VERY important to the feel and function of the game because the whole game, literally the entire crux of what your characters are using their abilities on AND how they advance as characters is entirely based around dragging things back out of the hole they went in.

If you wanted to make a lite game about fast pace kung fu fights you wouldn't need detailed rules about recovering from injury because, just like in a kung-fu fighting movie, characters enter every challenge (usually) at full strength. That's kind of the point. Implementing a similar system in OSR would be pretty much opposite of what you want, but for another game it might work great.

Anyone, long game-design shitposting aside, I don't have a problem with weirdo OSR. I think it's fun to at least consider them, or steal mechanics and setting ideas. I've noticed pretty much every weird or different OSR clone has at least one or two really cool mechanics you can just flat out steal.

Except for roll under ability scores. Those can go straight to hell.

>>52060859
Hey this is a perfect segway into my fucking wall of text! Sorry but maybe it will continue this convo or give you anons something else to talk about (if it hasn't already been discussed ten thousand times.)

Basically I'm trying to come up with ways to improve the AD&D combat system, not anything too complex or different because my group and I like the quicker combat, but just some things to make it more realistic, balanced, and give it some tactical options while keeping it fast-paced.

>Movement
A lot of the things I've been tinkering with have to do with movement and position/facing. I realized that I've always felt turn-based movement systems are weird and unrealistic as hell. How do you charge 60 feet up to an archer and not get shot at at least once? How do you circle completely around someone mid-fight for a flank or rear attack bonus?

I know the later editions fixed some of this with threat zones, attacks of opportunity (which are in AD&D but limited,) and the 5-foot-step-in-combat rule, but I think a further fix would be something like simultaneous movement. For example, whoever has initiative moves "first," but as they move, the enemies have a chance to react to their movement (as long as they aren't surprised ofc.) So if the player decides to move directly into a group of enemies, they get a reaction move and use their move speed to meet him halfway, or possibly retreat before he gets there. To me this feels much more realistic and I'm baffled as to why it's never been a thing in D&D. I'm not sure if it's in other systems. Is this some old shit that I've just now stumbled on?

As for flanking, it's ridiculous in AD&D. From what I can tell, you can quite literally move completely behind an enemy you are in melee with on your turn and get a rear attack bonus to hit them. the 5-foot-step rule fixes this, but I still have some questions like do you get an AoO if an enemy moves through your threat zone you while you're in melee with another?

tbc

>>52060768
Spell lists (pg 36) nneed a space between the levels. The different bears run together (and the last two actually have their damage dice broken up so that "'d10" and "2d6" are each divided between two rows). Cat, great is just a mess. The Dragons run together. I'm not sure what's up with the movement entries under Elemental. The Fish run together a bit, and the Giant sublistings are awfully cramped too. Etc. Etc.

Watch your spaces when using parentheses and slashes. Under Halfling, for instance, the number appearing is "3d6(5d4)", when there should obviously be a space between them. With the slashes, I think it would *probably* look better with a space before and after the slash (Damage: d4 / d4 / d6), but regardless, you should apply spacing consistently (not "d4/ d4/ d6" in one place and "2d6/2d6/2d10" in another).

Left-justify your treasure tables.

The ship table is a mess and really needs to be a full-page sort of thing, like in B/X.

>>52060908
>to make it more realistic

Ohmyfuckinggodnoplease.gif

Find the Song of Swords thread instead.

>>52053873
I would modify this and use as a d100 chart. The last 50 results are farmer. The rest is the same.

Out of curiosity, I really liked the 9 page cantrip info that someone posted before. Is there anything more like this?

>>52060768
>>52060951
Anyway, don't take this as me bitching or criticizing or anything. You asked if we spotted any typos or anything strange, and this is me doing that.

>>52060685
>I think old-school D&D sucks at emulating a lot of classic fantasy it draws its inspiration from

This. For a the memes that people like >>52055008 and >>52054380 spew, D&D isn't a swords & sorcery game.

You aren't Conan, you're either Mr Secondary Character Who Dies or Nameless Henchman #32. Magic is weird but not terrifying like in true sword & sorcery (cf. People of the Black Circle, Demon in the Mirror). And this "OSR isn't high fantasy!" is total bullshit as shown by Gods, Demigods, and Heroes, Forgotten Realms, Oriental Adventures, and the fact that demons are random monster encounters just like bandits.

>>52053873
Excuse me, Commissar, but what is the woman in the bottom panel doing to the crawling man?

Is she consuming him whole or merely licking the lice off his buttocks?

>>52060978
People usually pay for an editor's time. He should be thanking you.

>>52060216
Cool!
It would be amazing if you took all the crunch and condense it.

>>52060662
Not sure who are replying to, but that's not a nice way to ask.

Come back with some bug fixes and I'll consider whatever you ask.

>>52060768
Thank you.
>I'm not sure there's enough space between your paragraphs.
Yep, it needs more air.

The original font (Souvenir) is fairly unreadable on the long run, and it's too cramped imho so I decided to use Caslon/Garamond with decent margins.

Yep, you're right about readability of tables, but my pc crashes with tons of tables, so I'll adjust those later on.
As for double-lines in tables, they are unavoidable. The original does it a lot, and it uses a smeller font size, so...

The saving throw tables are temporary; ideally it'll be a single table, or something more compact, or idk.

>equipment is on page 18
That doesn't happen on my original, it could be a pdf export error.
>Equipment and weapon table is easier to read when it's left-justified.
But it is? Unless you mean the prices.

>page 24
>Monster Reactions
ty, will fix

>Mercenary table on pg 34
Let's simply not talk about that table. At all. Props to the original typesetter, he did an amazing job.

>>52060765
I agree, at least to a measure. I mean, more rules = more complexity = less rules-light is a given. At the same time, D&D applies rules when it feels that the matter justifies it, and feats and skills are already scattered throughout early D&D in various forms, just in different names (feats are really just a codename for "something neat I can do", i.e. class abilities).

I was thinking "how can we expand this while keeping to the very strict threshold of utility that old-scholl D&D gives us?" I thought of this as a sniff test for skills, for example:

• The skill must be either something that could reasonably envisioned as a contest with others, or something that circumstantial modifiers could easily be applied to if not a contest.
• The skill must be something that could be reasonably expected to occur on a fairly regular basis *during* a typical adventure (not in the lead-up or aftermath, i.e. during downtime).
• The skill must not take the place of social interactions or roleplaying (Bribery, Conversation).
• The skill must not be something we should assume your average adventurer should be perfectly capable of doing (Survival, Rope Use), unless it meets criteria 1. Err on the side of fewer skills.

Tracking or Lockpicking would work as skills, IMO. Of course, then there's the matter of implementation. It has to be simple; no Palladium skill systems need apply.

>>52060859
>Basically every rule should emphaize the asthetic you are going for.

I think this is an excellent guideline. If it's not tied to a general feel you're trying to go for or genre-element you're trying to emulate, a rules option should be superb or very simple to make the cut.

>>52060859
Skill systems aren't bad, but I find they lead to a lot of people treating the game like a point and click adventure. Heck, my 5e game can devolve into this if I don't explicitly tell my players to just describe what they're doing. Otherwise they enter a room and once it's described they just declare the skill they're using and what they're using it on.
>I use Perception on the room! What do I see?
>I roll Investigation on the statue!
>I'm gonna roll Arcana on these spellbooks.
>One player rolls for History, no declaration of what he's rolling it for.

>>52060979
Some of that is rules, and some of that is worldbuilding. I'm hoping to be able to at least address the rules part, within the limits imposed by an OSR framework.

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>>52060908

I won't meme you about trying to make it 'realistic, more balanced, and give it some tactical options'. I agree with your idea but just letting you know that phrasing your comment in this way is going to be a bit of a red flag.

I don't know much about the ruleset for how actual AD&D works, but I can share my shitty homebrew and what I think constitutes a good combat system.

>Armor vs Movement
"Realistic" shouldn't be used here, because "Realistic" armor is always superior to nonarmored. Or basically somebody wearing full plate has very little to no disadvantage moving, running, or fighting then someone without armor. The actual disadvantages of armor, like taking that shit off or how it limits your vision, hearing, and very precise (like lockpicking percise), tend not to be covered in games due to complexity.

BUT in order to keep the heavy, slow armored guy vs fast light unarmored guy interesting without being too annoying is to do either something with initiative or do something with non-attack actions. Which is what I did.

>Armor gives -combat maneuver saving roll negative equal to bonus AC
This rule basically means that whenever somebody tries to trip you, push you off a cliff, disarm you or throw sand in your eyes or whatever having heavier armor makes you more open to it. I really like this rule because it makes faster guys more defensive in another area but doesn't do some bullshit like make heavily armored characters attack half as often or some lame shit like that.

Secondly I like this because, at least in my game, it works well with how the classes advance. Fighters get a bonus to saving throws from combat maneuvers as they level up. This means a high level Fighter basically doesn't get a penalty from wearing heavy armor- which further pushes home the idea that these guys are good at fighting!

Anyone, this developed somewhat into a tangent but I hope you find it useful.

>>52061046
Exactly what I hate about skill systems and am hoping to avoid.

There's a lock. Okay, try to pick it. There's a trail. Okay, I try to follow it, knowing the guy is trying to lose me; good contest of skill vs. skill. But "I roll Conversation"? Fuck that.

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>>52061013
>>Equipment and weapon table is easier to read when it's left-justified.
>But it is? Unless you mean the prices.
See pic. The text in each column is centered and not left justified.

>>52060966
Why be a smart ass? I'm not talking about turning it into some medieval weapon and wound simulator, just adding a few more options/tweaks to a basic system that's been used in almost every fucking game ever made and will continue to be.

The devil is in things like movement, position, weapon balance, etc... Even hit points and wounds are kind of a bleh area because if people are used to pools of HP and you suddenly have them start rolling on wound tables and taking negative effects or bleeding, they're gonna get pissed off.

>>52060951
>Spell lists
fixed, ty

>Monster tables
Will fix those when monsters are proofed. The dragons are also missing a illo.

>Monster stats
Cool I'll give those another pass asap.

>>52061107
Oh that's for Encumbrance. Ty, fixed.

>>52061010
On the other hand, you aint doing shit...

>>52061013
>Not sure who are replying to, but that's not a nice way to ask.
I'm pretty sure he was talking to me regarding my responses to your comments. But to me, it seems like the main thrust of your endeavor is making things easier to reference (and not needing two different books), and shit *should* be designed to accommodate laziness. So even if somebody disagrees with what I was saying, criticizing it as the product of laziness doesn't seem particularly valid to me.

>>52061171
>Oh that's for Encumbrance.
And so it is. I just saw the armor and weapon names and reacted to the shape of things...

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>>52061091
Yeah, if I have to use skills I may just force players to write down a background profession and allow an ability check based off of that. Something like PDF related.

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>>52061084
AD&D is fairly simple on the surface but has quite a few additional rules (some of which aren't even properly explained in 1ed) and things to make it crunchier.

I like your homebrew system and find the combat saving throws to be interesting and realistic while also fostering more creative combat instead of "roll to hit, you miss, roll to hit, you hit, etc.." It's exactly the sort of small changes I'm looking for. AD&D excels at keeping combat simple and leaves much open to the DM, but some of my players want a bit more of a tactical, numbers-oriented approach and I don't blame them.

For example, another area that could use some big improvements are Gygax's now-legendary weapon lists and tables with their hilariously freakish encylopedias of exotic polearms and strangely unbalanced weapon statistics.

Even Wikipedia gets a bit confused about defining a fucking "Bill-Guisarme" or "Bec de Corbin" and some of these weapons are overpowered when compared to their similar counterparts for no discernible reason. If I'm reading things correctly, a spear is just a terrible weapon compared to about anything else you could use unless you get to impale fuckers charging you on horseback. You'd be better off with something like a Billhook in every other situation, and with low-leveled characters and lots of damage flying around, it makes a big difference and can get you killed fast.

>>52061301
A little expansion on this, but I like things like long weapons being able to reach twice as far (or 2 squares) away instead of one, but there's no real penalty or trade-off for this ability. You don't, for example, take a -1 if enemies get close. Weapons speeds are also kind of ridiculous as you simply add them to your initiative roll, but then do this with every player and every enemy/NPC for every initiative (and don't forget about called shots and spell casting times) and you can see how fun and fluid that mechanic could end up being.

AD&D has a lot of holes I'm trying to fill without making too many changes or just switching to a new system. My group is already invested and some of them are very new roleplayers.

>>52060806
PHB psionics is even more insane because it's not even a class; it's a bonus you get in addition to your class as a reward for having high mental abilities. The only "balancing" factor is that psionics might kill you during character creation. Except that every character who actually gets played survived character creation, so that's not a good balance at all.

>>52060967
Anyone?

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>>52061401
That's not how weapon speed factor works. For one, the method you described is much too simple and easy to implement at the table. The truth of how AD&D initiative works is infinitely more complex and horrifying.

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>>52060967
>I really liked the 9 page cantrip info that someone posted before.
Pic related? Gygax wrote that for the Dragon.
>Is there anything more like this?
Unearthed Arcana revises and polished them, IIRC.

>>52061468
Did AD&D do away with the Psionic Wandering Monster table? That thing was VICIOUS.

>>52061542
I like the cantrips too but feel like they were a terrible acknowledgement of magic-users being almost useless and awful to play at low levels until they turn into rampaging superheroes at mid and higher levels.

Psionic wandering monster table sounds awesome.

>>52061162

He means that "I want to make it more realistic" is the birth cry of a thousand terrible fantasy heartbreakers.

>>52061810
Exactly. It's not that it can't be done, but that realism often means "poor historical training imposing ridiculous ecological/social ideas", "fighters can't have nice things", and "Phoenix Command".

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>>52061640
>Psionic wandering monster table sounds awesome.
It's really, really not.

In Eldritch Wizardry if you had a psionic with you, then 1-in-6 monsters you encounter have a psionic with them.
A further 1-in-6 (so 1-in-36 of all your encounters) got rolled of these tables instead of their normal tables.
It's interesting to note that this puts oodles of always-hostile high level monsters on the surface floors of the Dungeon.

>>52061468
Oh, yeah. Not sure about Eldritch Sorcery, but in AD&D Mind Thrust and Thought Shield are ALWAYS the optimal attack and defense modes.
AD&D also mucked up monster conversions. They got the wrong PSPs and attack/defense modes. IIRC, contrary to their write-up, AD&D Mind Flayers don't even get Psionic Blast?

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>>52061301
Few notes about pole arms in AD&D 1e:
- It was assumed GMs had some knowledge on the uses of specific pole arms and would therefore provide appropriate bonuses when using a desired pole arm the right way i.e. dismounting a knight using a bill hook or disarming someone with a guisarme or using a bec de corbin to puncture a hole in plate armour.
- Due to the length of pole arms it was assumed if you attacked someone holding a pole arm directly at you, then they could have their attack before you could have yours.
- Gygax knew certain pole arms were inferior to others he just listed them there so you could use those stats if you were running a campaign in a certain time period. Like glavies and variations of the bill hook in the early medieval ages to halberds and bardiches in the renaissance.

Personally I think the weapon list tables are balanced as it is. Sure two-handed swords could literally one-shot giants but they couldn't be used in corridors nor on horseback. It's up to the DM to equalize the game imo.

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>>52061542
Kudos to the guy who types out all those spells and complies them into a PDF.

>>52061401
Here is some of the modifiers I use with my players:
- +1 to +3 for Innate Spell or/and Abilities - turn undead, lay on hands, hide in shadows, tumbling or other proficiencies.
- Small enemies get a +3, medium get a +5 and large get a +7. Depending on the weapon I may lower or raise it by a point or two. You don't need to use the exact weapon speeds :)

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>>52061301
Don't know what you are saying mate but spears are LEGENDARY in AD&D. They can be thrown more than 30 feet without taking a sizeable penalty compared to other melee weapons. You can set your spear against a charging opponent, use it underwater or in most combat scenarios without hindrance, costs next to nothing and weights an appropriate amount compared to other weapons. Plus if your DM allows you to use the Complete Fighter's Handbook, using your spear two-handed deals 1d6+1/2d8 damage.

>>52061891
My favorite part about AD&D psionics was that it didn't actually tell you what the attack modes did in game terms. It was one of several parts of the game that was withheld from players, just like how the PHB doesn't contain how to tell whether your attacks hit, how to tell whether your saving throws succeed, and important information regarding how several spells work. The rules for paladins mention that there is a special magic sword that works better in the hands of a paladin, but not what it is. This is a case where they really should have not said anything in the PHB and just put that fact in the description of the sword in the DMG.

I guess AD&D was all about tantalazing the players with just the wrong amount of information: too much to be concise but too little to be usable.

>>52061855
Those sound like some hilarious tropes. Sorry, I need to lurk more.

>>52062228
No worries: it's a common mistake, after all. Don't be discouraged into tinkering with it all the same, because the inherent premise isn't so much flawed as often done poorly, or overdone in OSR terms.

>>52061917
Where is this rule that 2-handers can't be used in corridors? That's huge, and I've been scouring through the labyrinth that is the 1st ed PHB. It's probably in the DM Guide eh?

I do appreciate Gygax's grasp of historical weaponry, and it made sense that they didn't have things like Oriental Adventures yet so some of the Asian weapons being in there makes sense. But some of the damage stats I really don't understand.

Coincidentally, I'm playing an Elf that wields a spear and a hammer, two weapons I thought would be perfectly sufficient and deadly. I was fucking wrong. They are literally some of the worst weapons in the table, and for what reason? I can see a Billhook or Halberd being deadlier than a regular spear, but a spear does 1d6? Why? Should be 1d8 at least, and a hammer I thought would function similar to a mace with maybe a piercing bonus to plate armors or something. Yeah right, 2-5 damage, quite a bit less than the 2-7 "footman's mace."

I just picked these weapons for roleplaying purposes because I liked them, and my character constantly gets the fucking shaft and can be killed by Hobgoblins with broadswords doing 2D4 damage if I'm not careful, just because of wonky weapon stats.

>>52061891
>Mind Thrust
You're right about that, but
>and Thought Shield
Mode G is pretty much /always/ the worst defense. You want Mode H or Mode F, depending on the attack.
You're required to learn Mode F and you choose your defense after seeing your opponents attack, tho.

>>52053521
>How much randomness do you like in your games?

As in tables? Lots.

As a GM, I only find it exciting if what happens is as much of a surprise to me as it is to the players. If I have to improvize based on the results, great! That's me playing the game (the players have other challenges to solve).

Without randomness the game feels like just another A to B to C series of fixed encounters. To me that's the same as as an "Adventure Path" product, even if the choices are dungeon rooms instead of which NPC to side with in a scripted conflict. Give me random encounters, wandering monsters, and restocks, please.

>>52062168
Holy shit that sounds awesome. Why did I not find any of that? The two-handed rule makes a ton of sense, and the 1d6 is more accurate when I have my light shield equipped.

We haven't bothered with things like weight, encumberance, or using it in different combat scenarios too much yet because we have a few super new players, so we didn't want to load them down. Those aspects really add to the system, though, and can help players like me who think something is unbalanced realize it actually isn't when those factors are taken into account.

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>>52062528
>and a hammer I thought would function similar to a mace with maybe a piercing bonus to plate armors or something

>>52062631
Is there a version of this rules, but using modifiers and AC instead of a table lookup?

>>52062528
I know for a fact it's somewhere in the DMG. The rule is listed in the Combat section of 2e DMG though.

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Let's play this. Pic is a random page from my notebook - I'm curious about what other people would come up for this.
Filename is random, ignore it if you want.

>>52062629
Is your group using a battle mat?

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>>52057061
For tables you could help readability by adding alternating colors to the rows. See attached file. The Weapons Table could benefit from an overhaul that includes item weight, weapon ranges, etc. Also like everyone else has said use descending armor class please, if you're set on this you can ascending as an optional rule.

>>52063426
Agree, but we'll see. Striped tables have a very modern feel, I'll try to come up with something readable-but-oldish first.

Equipment overhaul unlikely, I remember I tried it and messed up badly with the layout for some reason. Perhaps at the end of the project, when all pages are set.

Descending AC stays, >>52060164 convinced me with
>People specifically play retroclone X over retroclone Y because it either does or doesn't have ascending AC.

>>52063080
Not yet but I'm getting one off Amazon as I type this. We've been doing hand-drawn and graph paper, then we stumbled back in to the snowball disaster that is miniatures and scenery so now we're right fucked.

>>52060194

Has anyone tested it ? is it good ?

In B/X, there are 4 classes and 3 races.
>Fighter can be played by humans, elves, dwarves and halflings.
>Magic-user can be played by humans and elves
>Clerics can be played by humans only
>Thieves can be played by humans only

Would people still bitch about race-as-class if it was presented like this in Moldvay?

>>52062777
All there is in 1e is a column of the room you need to use each melee weapon

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>>52064791
If you choose a race, you give up on choosing a class.
It's race-as-class in all but the name.

>>52063759
A player character who is fighting with a two-handed sword or a large weapon in general takes up an adjacent space. Meaning if he were to fight in a ten-foot wide corridor he would take up the same space two other PCs fighting with long swords normally would.

>>52064791
Why is race-as-class such an issue lol? Almost all of the people I played with don't really care about the system they just want to role-play and kill kobolds.

>>52064891
Yes, it's the same, but I mean presented as a choice.

>I wanna be a wizard!
>ok anon, now choose between human wizor and elf wizor

>>52064944
No idea. My players don't give a fuck about the system either, and they'll still ask for more player options... they won't read the rules but oh boy, "can I be a <...>"
And they are never satisfied when I say "yes, you are a fighter that is a <...>"

>>52057467
>and lost a couple of levels to wraiths. It was demoralising to the group.
Permanent Level Loss is one of those OSR mechanics that really has no business still existing in this day and age

>>52065296
Make levels return after x time of rest, like a temporal ability score loss.

Alternatively, cut XP requirements by half, double monster XP.

>>52064791
>Would people still bitch about race-as-class if it was presented like this in Moldvay?
Most probably would, I think, though maybe a bit less vociferously. I do think you'd get a few who would accept it when it's framed like that (though I elves are obviously multiclass and not just plain fighters).

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>>52065296

Would you prefer it if dey failed a save or die and you hadda throw the character sheet in da trash?

Also:

https://micahblackburn.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/in-defense-of-level-drain/

>Back in the older editions, where there were noguaranteesof being able to purchase spells, a dead character was potentially completely gone, unless the party had the means themselves to bring the character back. So months of play were potentially wiped with a failed saving throw. Even if you could get a raise, you lost a point of constitution. This was an almostIRREPLACEABLEloss (barring extremely rare magic and items). This could decrease your HP, system shock, and all manner of rolls (depending on which edition you were playing).
>Comparatively, all you needed to do to overcome level drain was get out there and gain more xp.

>>52065296
>Permanent Level Loss is one of those OSR mechanics that really has no business still existing in this day and age
I will say one thing for it: it creates a more immersive experience, frightening players right alongside their characters when they run into the undead.

>>52065597
Now that I think about it, the only two games that made me FEAR undead critters are D&D and Dark Souls.

>>52065631
>the only two games that made me FEAR undead critters are D&D and Dark Souls
Getting cursed in Dark Souls 1 by ghosts is a terrible experience

>>52065025
>they won't read the rules but oh boy, "can I be a <...>"
Yeah, one of my friends looks at rpg's books and says "not enough classes, shit system"

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>>52060165
Attack table attached, bonus should be (20 -THAC0)

>>52062893
How many pages do we have to pick from?
How about we start with #1 while you answer that.

>>52065539
I don't like Save or Die either to be honest

honestly there's a lot of things in the OSR sphere I don't like, I mostly follow it to use as a simpler rule base to emulate more modern fantasy concepts since 3.PF is garbage, 4E takes too much work for my tastes, and 5E is really bland

>>52064791
ACKS does something similar, where dwarves and elves have subclasses based on whether they want to be more fighty or more magicky (in the same way that an elf is essentially a magic-user/fighter in B/X).

But just from the way you worded your question, I think you should take a step back a little. Dwarf is a class, it represents the dwarf archetype in fantasy. You can't be a dwarf thief just as much as you can't be a halfling dwarf. "Race" is a very weird term for demi-humans, then again this is a game where "level" means a bajillion different things so hey.

>>52065539

This.

Poison trap, save or die, fuck your level. Level loss is a mercy by comparison, you get to keep playing the same character with all the same gear.

And related, poisons should be deadly. If I hired someone to set up traps in my dungeon and they did 0 damage on a successful Reflex save, 2d10 on a failed save (out of anywhere from 1 to 100 hp), I'd fire him on the spot. What a shitty poison.

>>52065528
It's *already* a temporary loss. You regains levels as you gain xp.

>>52066275
I think save or die also sucks for most games, but I'm swayed by the argument that level drain can be good. I would still use it rarely, however.

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I'm not usually one to beg like this but I need some help. I was asked to run solo game (LL using Black Streams and Dyson's subclasses) but my creativity is burned out right now.

I'm looking for a good adventure/dungeon that takes place in an area that can't be escaped willy nilly (island, horrible, winter, etc.) Level isn't that important although I'd prefer if it was under 10.

>>52060571
>>52060804

https://mega.nz/#F!REc1EKaQ!3QHos5Lhj8VP0EWFziRpMg

>>52067863
>gamma world cards
you are my hero anon

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really makes you think huh

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>>52069416
Any idiot can write a PDF, anon. Explain why this matters.

>>52069464
>Any idiot can write a PDF
Really makes you think

>>52069464
Find and replace the following
>Negro with gypsi
>Monseuir with Count
>pigeon with bat
>swamp dog with worg wolve
>swamps with woods

Starting to look familiar yet?

>>52069500
>Really makes you think
This post got my neurons firing

>>52069416
>deadnecks
One good idea doesn't excuse the rest but at least there's that.

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>>52069554
I'm now imaginging a crazed, three-hundred-foot high wooden shack filled with voodoo idols.

I'm OK with this.

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>>52069464
>>52069500
>>52069554
My god. I was wrong.

It was Strahd all along.

You've finally made a gypsy out of me.

>>52069766
It's obviously set in Souragne, anon, what's wrong with you?

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>>52069823
Nothing, just got something in my eye.

So what's the point? Modules with cheap racial stereotypes in them are bad? Swamps are awesome? "Stay in this area or die" fog is a bullshit mechanic that ruins games?

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>>52069712
>>52069766
>>52069858
Number of reasons
>1. I've had people tell me Ravenloft isn't racist because evil gypsies are a Hammer Horror trope. So does that mean evil negroes aren't racist in a Southern Gothic adventure?
>2. How easy would it be to convert I6 Ravenloft from a Gothic setting to a Southern Gothic setting?
>3. How profoundly will the spirit of the module change if I just change the names of some things?

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>>52070114
It'd probably be more pointed satire if anyone gave two shits about gypsies, evil or otherwise.

But yeah, fair points. Keep up the good work. Throw in some misunderstood magic and folklore and you've got a decent setting.

Oh, and make sure that Samaque's ex is white, for extra tasteless racial themes. Play this up in subtle, stupid ways, especially in portrait descriptions.

>>52070114
>1. I've had people tell me Ravenloft isn't racist because evil gypsies are a Hammer Horror trope. So does that mean evil negroes aren't racist in a Southern Gothic adventure?
Never understood that. "You can't make non-whites evil because that would be racist."
That's just fucking stupid and has an awful taste of SJW-ness.

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>>52070317
Well, just because something's racist doesn't make it bad (case in point, Black Canaan and Pigeons from Hell which both inspired my little experiment). It just annoys me when there's something obviously sexist/racist and some nerd pulls "well akshualy . . ." card.

Go ahead and throw in your evil minorities and heroic whites (or vice versa or mix-and-match) just own up to the fact that it's racist.

>>52070244
I didn't have plans to write up anymore (mainly because it's a pain in the ass to format). What I had in mind when I was writing is that that Samaque is a white gentleman vampire, although a conspicuously eloquent and well-educated African (cf. Black Canaan and Moon of Zimbabwei) or a mulatto (either 50/50 or a much smaller percentage) would also fit. You could also just handwave the vampire stuff away as voodoo powers.

>>52070317

There's a difference between "you can't make non-whites evil" and "you can't make evil characters who are non-white."

How would you feel about a setting where white people were pure evil? Like all of them? Every last one you see? That'd be the sort of thing that's being criticised here.

(This is kind of academic, though, because I hear there was a handy retcon, and now the "evil gypsies" in Ravenloft are non-human beings from outside reality posing as regular gypsies.)

>>52070508
>now the "evil gypsies" in Ravenloft are non-human beings from outside reality posing as regular gypsies.

what

>>52070508
The Vistani were never pure evil to begin with, I don't know what people are bitching about.

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>>52070499
Why? What program are you using to format your text?

Anyway, that's excellent. I wouldn't handwave the powers though. I'd misinterpret them completely. Make up a hokey ritual that /sounds/ right by rapidly flicking through wikipedia articles while drunk.

>>52070499
>You could also just handwave the vampire stuff away as voodoo powers.
"Vampire stuff" was originally Scholomance powers. Dracula (a la. Bram Stoker) was an alumni.

Almost all of his powers and taboos were because he was a Magic-user, not because he was a Vampire.
Sunlight is a pretty big example: It limited his shape-shifting and dispelled* most of his other magic.
Something, something, mostly illusory, something, something, illusions/deception can't withstand sunlight.
If the weather wasn't overcast he'd pull an all-nighter to get some serious magicing in, but the dude wasn't even nocturnal.
Also, Dracula had a handlebar mustache and a unibrow.

>>52070556
I had to copypaste from the PDF to MS word and even then the OCR was screwy with stuff like "ld6" and "lOdlO"

>>52070579
>Dracula had a handlebar mustache and a unibrow.
Really? I haven't read Dracula, just Carmilla. It really did remind me of my Chinese cartoons.

>>52070661
Whether he has a unibrow or just an almost-unibrow is somewhat ambiguous, but he explicitly has a handlebar mustache.

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>>52070661
There's got to be a better text version out there with proper OCR. And if you don't have Publisher, honestly, try Powerpoint instead (formatting each slide to be an 8.5x11 sheet or whatever ratio you use.) You could do worse. Word will kill you if you let it.

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>>52070708
why does osrg never suggest markup languages?

>>52070740
Because they're a pain in the ass if you're not used to them.

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>>52070740
Because if Word is the guy's first choice, I'm sure not going to steer him down the dark path of proper writing tools. That way lies madness and very subtle replicated formatting issues.

>>52070508
>How would you feel about a setting where white people were pure evil? Like all of them? Every last one you see?
You mean... the real world? :^)

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>>52070508
>>52070532
>there was a handy retcon, and now the "evil gypsies" in Ravenloft are non-human beings from outside reality

Seems like cultural appropriation to me. Summon the tumblrs.

>>52061301
>You'd be better off with something like a Billhook in every other situation
The bill hook was an egregiously superior weapon in real life, and the English army maintained use of it for a long time even after everyone else had moved to pikes.

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>>52062748
Yeah, Anon converted these to d20 modifiers some time ago. Pic related. You still end up with a table lookup, though, so from my point of view there's not much gained compared to just giving the target numbers.

(There's also a table in the DMG, but it's wrong and shit and bad, in that it took the Chainmail table, calculated the equivalent modifiers *to 2d6* and then applied them directly to 1d20, resulting in massive retardation and angry sperging on my part for the rest of all time)

>>52070508
The Dogan tribe's modern ancestor dance represents idiocy, corruption, and outside evil as a bumbling white man in a giant pith hat, so anything set in Africa would have whites as the spooky evil invaders.

To be honest, the equivalent of evil gypsies in a Southern Gothic adventure would be rednecks and swamp folk. Blacks would be evil shamen or whatever the people who openly warn outsiders to escape while they can and don't want any trouble are.

>>52067664
>I'm looking for a good adventure/dungeon that takes place in an area that can't be escaped willy nilly (island, horrible, winter, etc.) Level isn't that important although I'd prefer if it was under 10.
Isle of Dread is an island, and it's also horrible, or at least dreadful.

>>52070508
Aren't they Shadar-Kai now or whatever the player race that was native to the Shadowfell in 4e?

>>52067664
>a good adventure/dungeon that takes place in an area that can't be escaped willy nilly
Ravenloft adventures tend to fit that criterion. :^)

>>52070114
>1. I've had people tell me Ravenloft isn't racist because evil gypsies are a Hammer Horror trope. So does that mean evil negroes aren't racist in a Southern Gothic adventure?
Tbqh, yes, that's what it means. I read your PDF and had a really hard time trying to figure out what was supposed to make me think. "It just looks like an extremely vaguely sketched voodoo adventure, good for that guy, I guess. Is Anon trying to comment on halfassed design and writing, or something?"

>>52070579
>>52070661
My favorite pop-Dracula misconception is the hokey bullshit required to kill a vampire. In the book they kill him by murdering him with knives.

So, are the standard spells in Labyrinth Lord (and so, I presume, B/X) actually well-balanced in terms of their level placement? I was looking to collapse the list down to seven spell levels instead of 9 and the whole thing got me wondering if some spells are considered a bargain, or a waste of a slot at the level they're at but could be good X number of levels down. I'd appreciate your insights.

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>>52071124
>egregiously superior

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>>52071504
He's obviously writing like Gary, and using outdated terms.

>>52071217
The "Shadowfell natives" seem the most appropriate choice.
If only because 4e had the Shadowfell pull double duty as not!Ravenloft.
Darklords trapped in Domains, and everything.

>>52071483
Basic does a *much* better job of spell-power per spell-level than Advanced, but no they aren't really balanced.
The discrepancy between "good 1st level spells" and "good 2nd level spells" should probably have been your first tip-off.

>>52071504
Yes? It's so superior, that the reality of it is grotesque. What about that is odd?

>>52071523
No, I actually meant in the first sense. Compare "appallingly superior", "disgustingly superior". Or something like "horrifically effective".

Since what's being discussed is actually the potential for gruesome violence, the phrasing is perfectly reasonable (or if you prefer, the apparent incongruity lends vividness). People have always been saying that sort of thing, whether it's about bills, guns or mustard gas.

>>52071162
Thanks, but that's the same table, with d20. I guess if I extract the target number from this table I'll end up with the same retardation you describe?
I play D&D with 2d6 instead of d20

>>52062893
>>52065967
Welp, Maybe I was unclear. I meant anons would fill the tables for this, and post their own one-page dungeons so others would do the same.

>>52070508
>a setting where white people were pure evil?
dude have you read a history book? That's real life you're describing.
(an awful lot of non-white people are also evil, but whites really push the boat out in terms of world-conquering megalomania.)

>>52071712
Oh, you *wanted* the original Chainmail Man-to-Man 2d6 modifiers? Sorry, I don't have that.

>I guess if I extract the target number from this table I'll end up with the same retardation you describe?
No, these are the correct d20 modifiers for the ACs listed on top. (Although of course you do have to make sure not to add magical bonuses to the AC itself)

>>52062893
>Encounters:
A is 20 kobolds, plus 5 (and a tapestry worth 200sp) in the back room. They will sell out the goblins of given a chance.
B is 12 goblins, 6 in each room. They have telepathy with eachother and distrust the kobolds.
C has a partially exposed book of spells gripped by a fully buried Wight (one of the tower owner's former apprentices).

>Wandering Monsters:
1 is the town drunk, here to visit his nephew (a powerful wizard doncha' know)
2 is an ogre mage (hired by the tower's owner to fix the fēng shuǐ), disguised as the town drunk
3 is 2d4-1 acid pigeons and 3d6 pigeons that wandered in and got lost
4 is 5 kobolds from location A, out on patrol
5 is 1d6 goblins visiting from a nearby tribe
6 is a conspicuous (but disguised) mimic

>>52053570
would stick around longer as an idea if you pdf'd it. I know that's a bit of work, but with a preface of 'what I'm intending to do here' could be useful/spark other people to develop the idea.

That said, Tower of the Stargazer kind of already is one of these, if not intentionally, then at least in practise. Of the times when I've seen someone post 'idk what oneshot to use to introduce people to OSR', Tower is probably the most consistently pulled out example that people use. Speculation as to why?

>>52056592
are they in the Trove? can't find them atm.

>>52071956
Because it punishes players that interact with things. It's awful.

>>52053570
I do have a training dungeon, and yours looks a bit off to me - too linear, too cramped. A bit videogamey too (not a bad thing).

Some ideas:
disclaimer: I do VIDEOgame design mostly
-first room has no (visible) doors. This introduces poking around and secret door / open doors mechanics.
-first path splits in two, one corridor smells stale, the other not. This introduces informed choice, and they probably know this gimmick so it's okay to use it up front.
Stale-corridor leads to tomb with deadly undead and then room with great treasure. Undead room can be bypassed via secret door. This rewards a well-learned lesson, and is usually the first AHA! moment.
-all corridors are 60' long, usually taking one turn to cross. Introduces light resources, movement rates, encumbrance.
Also, if they move at 60', wandering encounters will usually happen when they reach a door, so you can introduce doors mechanics, like listening, making noise when opening, how monsters open doors automatically, etc etc. Also corner them against an unexplored door can be fun.
-Depends of the group, but if they are into mapping, you can make a super-compact dungeon, and leave some obvious spots to be accessed via secret walls. Otherwise you can simply hide trapdoors under valuable carpets.
-Reward players. If they fiddle or search secret shit, throw some coins here and there.
-A matter of style, but I always roll in the open, I believe an informed player is a happy player.
-Let them have a 'last words' mini-scene when they die.

AND:
-Set expectations first. Warn them about the quirks of your game, and play your game without holding back. If they are not ok with save-or-die poison, talk about what would be a fun replacement.
Playing a intro game (aka EASY or dice-fudged) and then hitting them with level drains and gotcha traps after some time feels like a backstab.

>>52072260
>save-or-die poison
Why does everyone use this? There are a whole bunch of different, more interesting/less punishing poisons in the DMGs and other books, why does everyone default to SoD?

>>52072278
I use it sparingly, and never in gotcha moments.
Besides setting the tone, it forces players to be cautious, have some respect for the environment and the treasure they find. It puts players at the edge of the seat, and keeps them there. It reinforces the idea that rolling=failure. And encourages creative thinking. And henchmen abuse.

At 1st level, any combat can be save-or-die, except spread into multiple rolls. This is what new editions do, all the time; making the game depend on lots of rolls, and spreading the swinginess of the dice into lots of different rolls - boooring.

As long as you respect player agency and keep your players informed, save-or-die is fine to use.
When used properly, they should never say "That was unfair!"

Convince me otherwise.

>>52072403
But why don't you use any of the others? Why is it always SoD as default, as opposed to, say, 2d6 save for half, or STR damage, or paralysis for 3d4 turns?

>>52072457
Where did I said that?

I said that if you are going to use SoD (or anything in that vein), you should use it openly and straight away. I used poison as an example simply because it's well known.

>>52072476
I skipped the first line of your post, and inferred from you responding to my question about why everybody defaults to SoD. Sorry.

>tfw you feel yourself slipping into That Guyism
You gotta help me, /osrg/-bros. I know how stupid it is, but the more I think about it, the more I find myself thinking that those old hyper-embarrassing rules about replacing the Charisma of female characters with a Beauty stat makes sense.

No, no, I know, but hear me out:
Charisma isn't really about "personal magnetism" in general or anything like that, it's about how suitable a battlefield commander you are: how trustworthy your troops find you, how reliable you seem and how ready they are to obey orders. Now, if you're playing a historical-based game, or one which is faithful to sword & sorcery tropes, it makes perfect sense that women effectively never have this stat, but on the other hand, ARE able to play on their looks and seductiveness to get benefits in a way that men can't.

In short, it seems like unless you're playing an Artesia campaign, this is exactly how it ought to work. Help me /osrg/, you're my only hope!

>>52073170
I can see a argument for it and I can see arguments against it.
Ultimately the decision will strongly colour your game. You'll effectively never have women commanders and such things. Does this rule apply to queens? How about female Half orcs?
Lots of buts and ifs (that are accurate to history too, t. Queens) so it might be too much trouble to add.
I am rambling now. Hopefully I was clear in my intent.

>>52073170
Why not just keep Charisma and say that for men it's primarily strength of personality, and for women it's primarily allure?

If you literally make a Beauty stat, then you have to figure out how that is affected by sexuality. (Are straight women less impressed or moved to jealous? What about gay men? What about dwarves or goblins or whatever?) If it's just implicit, you just sort of brush it aside, focusing on other aspects of Charisma when they're more appropriate. Also, if you call it Beauty, expect all female characters to have very high numbers in it (or for people to be dissatisfied if they don't).

>>52073398
>Why not just keep Charisma and say that for men it's primarily strength of personality, and for women it's primarily allure?
That would still entail changing the retainer loyalty tables and such so that women can't use them, though, which if anything looks even worse and is also effectively identical to what Anon was talking about, only making a really limp attempt to hide it.

If one WERE going to change it so Charisma meant something totally different for female characters I think it makes much more sense to just say so on the tin and give them a different stat, with a different name.

>>52074021
>That would still entail changing the retainer loyalty tables and such so that women can't use them
Retainers follow people they find compelling, whether that's because macho sons of bitches, or they have an ethereal beauty that draws them in.

>>52074045
That's what you call Charisma.

>>52073318
>You'll effectively never have women commanders and such things.
That's part of the point, though. Reality effectively never has them, nor does S&S fiction.

>Lots of buts and ifs (that are accurate to history too, t. Queens)
No, not at all, in fact I don't think a queen has ever led an army in her own right since Boudicca. Normally in cases such as Queen Elizabeth I they've had men do that stuff for them, often by power of persuasion through... you see where I'm going with this?

>>52073398
>Why not just keep Charisma and say that for men it's primarily strength of personality, and for women it's primarily allure?
What this guy >>52074021 said, pretty much. (Thanks, anon!)

>>52074045
No, that's really not how it works, or else there would've been many more female captains of hussars in history.

>>52074021
>>52074045
>>52073398
I really doubt Palmyrans followed Zenobia just because she was really purty

>>52071305
Crosses + Garlic + Stake + Beheading worked on Lucy Westenra though.

>>52074132
>No, that's really not how it works, or else there would've been many more female captains of hussars in history.

>>52074149
>I really doubt Palmyrans followed Zenobia just because she was really purty

I'm in no way suggesting this is realistic. I'm saying it's in keeping with a swords & sorcery mentality.

>>52074326
Yeah, but is there even any evidence that any of that was necessary? Or is that just Abraham being a weird old paranoid?

>>52074519
A little bit of both, probably.

>>52071239
>I read your PDF and had a really hard time trying to figure out what was supposed to make me think.

So I guess it really made you think huh

>>52074479
>I'm in no way suggesting this is realistic. I'm saying it's in keeping with a swords & sorcery mentality.
Oh, okay! Fair cop then.

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Do you map out lairs?

Or does it come down to
>"In this hex you encounter a lair, it has some bugbears," followed by reaction rolls and initiatives?

>>52074479
Red Sonja. S&S has women with commanding presence, followers, etc.

So you're not doing it for historical realism, or for S&S veracity points.

>>52074326
>Crosses + Garlic
Those actually don't work though, remember? Somebody keeps removing them, and then she gets chronic vampirism from Draculitic Consumption Disorder. I mean, they do stake her, behead her, and cram her mouth full of garlic, but IIRC there's nothing to really say any of that was any more necessary or effective than just chopping her head off was.


What I'm saying here is that Abraham Van Helsing is some kind of demented pervert.

>>52075225
>cherrypicking like an illegal Mexican on meth
Please, no.

>>52072457

See >>52066275
>poisons should be deadly. If I hired someone to set up traps in my dungeon and they did 0 damage on a successful Reflex save, 2d10 on a failed save (out of anywhere from 1 to 100 hp), I'd fire him on the spot. What a shitty poison.

>>52075468
>cherrypicking

>Red Sonja
>Jirel of Joiry
>That pirate queen Conan fought beside

He's right, anon.

What are the best resources out there for running a Hex Crawl?

I'm more interested in GMing advice than maps and tables, but the latter are also welcome.

>>52066275
>>52075696
Actually I hate hp loss for poison. A Deadly Poison sould be Deadly, at least for humans and demihumans.
Heroes may be heroes but they are still bound to a mortal body with (demi)human capacities.

>>52075696
>That pirate queen Conan fought beside
Bêlit.

>He's right, anon.
No, the other anon is right, Anon. Focusing on Bêlit and disregarding all the other girls who come along on Conan adventures and are clever/spellcasters/just arm candy IS cherrypicking. I can reckon up a much longer total of those types offhand; hell, Ivrian and Vlana makes two and that's just in *one* Lankhmar story.

I agree that it's better to use the same Charisma stat for everybody in play, but there's no way to argue that the women you listed form any kind of norm in sword and sorcery literature. If anything, those specific characters gain... character by breaking the trope, thus functionally reaffirming it.

Plus, Bêlit goes pirating in nothing but sandals and jewelry IIRC, so arguably she's just a case of *other* other anon's theory that in S&S men follow women on adventures because they have such fancy tits.

>>52076032
>Focusing on Bêlit and disregarding all the other girls who come along on Conan adventures and are clever/spellcasters/just arm candy IS cherrypicking.

Only if the argument is "most women in S&S are battlefield commanders" which it was not.

>>52076079
No, the argument was "Beauty is a more suitable stat to emulate the roles of female characters *generally* in S&S adventures", so focusing on the one exception and disregarding the majority that makes the argument true kinda definitely is cherrypicking.

In particular, the anon who started this exchange said:
>>52075225
>So you're not doing it for historical realism, or for S&S veracity points.
Which is to say by implication, "you're only doing it because of bigotry REEEEEEE, shitlord". I don't think it's cool to act that way, that's the whole reason I even started responding here. You don't like it, that's fine, don't play like that. The Game Police won't come to your house. But just blanket asserting that those who disagree with you can't possibly have any legitimate reason and are just evil is shitty, bigoted behavior, especially when the facts aren't even on your side so the claim is supported by cherrypicking examples (like the ONE woman who arguably might have led armies by force of personality and leadership ability, or the ONE female character in Conan who doesn't fit the mold).

If the facts had been on anon's side, the guilt-tripping and accusatory shit would still be uncool, though. Maybe I should've just started in that end, but I didn't really want to get into a tumblry tone argument if I could help it.

Newbie here, I need some statistics.

How many encounters do you have in a single session? With encounter I mean dealing with NPCs, a combat, fiddling with a trap. Moments where the action stops and players resolve something.

Alternatively, how many rooms, empty or not, do you cover in a single session?

Played 5e the other day and we had 2 npcs and 3 fights (and a trap too, but that took seconds) in 4 motherfucking hours. That's where I decided to quit, but the last fight was still going on...

>>52075003
Rushed sketch. Maybe with a few stock elements out of a (mostly "fresh") pile.

>>52076405
>How many encounters do you have in a single session?

0 to ∞.

OSR isn't about balancing encounters per day, it's about players being smart (and lucky).

You're all down to 1 or 2 hp and some orcs are charging at you? You run the fuck away. There's no guarantee that this is a "balanced" adventure or encounter.

Of course there's a lot more than fighting you can do. Maybe you go around the orcs via a secret door. Maybe you turn the kobold tribes against them. Maybe you get a good reaction roll and they just want to talk. Fighting is usually something you should avoid, especially at lower levels.

Plus, OSR is all about the sequence of events in one turn, it's basically a risk/reward game loop. You can search one more room for treasure, but that runs the risk of keyed/wandering monsters and traps. Player decisions dictate how many fights there are.

>>52075003
Tangentially related: do you guys read "% in lair" to refer to what amount of a lair's population is at home when you find it, or to the probability that a random encounter with a monster will consist of stumbling on its lair? I always read it as the second one, but I noticed some threads back that at least one or two of the rest of you seemed to read it the first way, and then forgot to ask.

>>52077055
I read it as % is liar.

>>52076964
>You're all down to 1 or 2 hp and some orcs are charging at you?
>You run the fuck away.
That's still an "encounter."

>>52076405
Maybe around 1 per 25 minutes (real time) of dungeon delving (exploration AND combat time)?

>>52077055
By RAW, it's used for both.

>>52077260
Isn't it weird that in the old days, they rated the honesty of monsters?

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>>52065597
>>52065539

>frightening players right alongside their characters

Absolutely. It's the best mechanic and I say that as someone who got screwed by it fairly often. It really makes you think twice about sticking your hand or head into that dark tunnel...

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>>52067863
Thanks muchly and morely.

>>52077408
I don't know if you ever suffered a concussion in real life, but if I were to model what I went through, a level drain would be pretty accurate. Changed my perspective about level drain. Wouldn't run without it now.

>>52076964
Anon, you're not answering the question. I want to read a number -- did you really had infinite encounters in a session?

I know there's a lot more to do beyond fighting, that's why I ask generically about 'encounters' and why I specify also traps and whatever 'stops' the game (maybe a poor wording).
Now, how many times does that happen in your game session?

>>52077294
Thanks. When I've run B/X I've had lots more, maybe 1 each 15 mins, once they get used to running and the bookeeping -- but I keep a breakneck pace to keep them focused.

>>52077603
Anyone have some files for Hackmaster 5e? Can't find downloads that haven't been DMCA'd anywhere.

>>52077559
> I want to read a number

Well for a dungeon it's 1 in 6 every other turn, but how much of the dungeon that is depends on time spent searching, resting, etc.

Keyed encounters vary by the dungeon, so it's impossible to say. There is a "knack" to it, maybe something like one keyed monster entry for every three rooms, but it varies wildly. Same goes for traps. The AD&D dungeon stocking tables might give you a better idea.

I'm sure some statistician could work it out, but there isn't a real answer to your question. No, I haven't had infinite encounters in one session, but I have seen players keep exploring rooms and getting lucky to the tune of at least 5 monster encounters and 3 traps (6 players, levels 1-3), then all making it out alive.

Don't fixate on the numbers so much. One high HD creature or poison trap can wipe a party.

I'm guessing you're just asking out of curiosity, but the 5E thing makes me wonder. Just relax, don't worry about pacing or the "ideal" number of encounters per session. Leave that to the players and the dice.

>>52077812
Maybe mentioning I'm a newbie was misleading.
I want to know other DMs pacing because I'm mostly self taught and permaDM. I don't have a frame of what's 'normal', and my group(s) never seem to stick for too long.
The few games I've seen on youtube (people playing on roll20 and such) look awfully -slow- to me.

I've played 5e once. Mentioned that as a comparison.

I usually run B/X, and pretty much RAW, so I know the chances of a keyed monster (2 in 6, half for traps) and wandering encounters (1 in 6, every two turns in b/x). I know about 50% of the rooms will be empty, 20% will have monsters+treasure, 15% only monsters, 15% only treasure.

The thing is that I plan to run a mega dungeon, and I want to plan it so it's doable in bite-sized chunks. This may sound trivial, but I play (mostly) with people who don't know what's a halfling, with virtually no attention span, and on a very strict schedule.

When you have a play block of one hour per month, and the possibility that players will stop coming, or spend that hour disengaged because it's a game about walking in corridors and counting spent torches... That's when you learn game design.

So, I was playing Darkest Dungeon the other day. I noticed how the method of play is very similar to oldschool D&D, in that - amongst other things - you get a team of weaklings that will probably die and when they do, you just make some more and keep going.

A lot of people bemoan the lethality of oldschool. I wonder, if it was presented to people more as "you command a stable of adventurers that is replenished when a member dies" rather than "YOU are the hero", people would understand and enjoy it more.

Do you think it is possible to re-frame adventurer + retainers/henchmen in the way that something like Darkest Dungeon/X-Com does without losing the fun roleplaying part of the game?

>>52078666

By what level do you think a fighter should have the best mundane armour available (AC 3 platemail, generally)?

>>52078666
Sorry, didn't mean to quote you when asking my question about armour above. It's a general question for the thread.

>>52078445

Shit man, that does sound tough.

Maybe for that time frame, try doubling everything? Or if the players just explore more without leaving, resting, etc., that could lead to more short, intense sessions? Six rooms explored, two fights, and a couple of collections of treasure? Not bad for an hour's work.

>>52079041
Not him, but whenever they an afford it.
If the party gets lucky and the fighter can afford plate by or before level 2, then he's welcome to it.

>Player: "I want adventure!"
>runs away whenever there's a whiff of trouble and does nothing interesting
>Player: "this is boring!"
>runs into obvious deathtrap and dies

Just fuck my solo game up.

Hi there. I'm a pleb who's new to this stuff but would like to try running it, so I have a stupid question. Does the concept of 'retroclones' mean that adventures can be ported across with no effort? So, for example, can I run an adventure written for the original D&D in Labyrinth Lord without changing anything?

New to this sort of thing but would like to run a game.

Stupid question: Are 'retroclones' of the same game inherently compatible? E.g could I run an adventure for the original D&D in Labyrinth Lord without having to fiddle with numbers to make it 'balanced' to a certain degree?

>>52079810
>>52079785
Oh shit, accidental double post. Thought first had failed.

>>52079785
Pretty much so. Changes needed are so tiny you can do them on the fly. Sometimes flip the AC. Done

>>52079785

AC (armour class) adjustments are the most common conversion necessary. Even then, it's a straight conversion, rather than having to estimate a converison rate.

Saving throws are the other fairly common change (the 3rd edition saving throw is a reasonably popular addition to OSR works), but while these don't covert straight across, eyeballing them is easy enough.

>>52079785
>>52079810
I wouldn't say "no effort," but the amount of work required is very low. Like the others said, AC and saving throws are some of the more common tweaks, but they're minor. Most retroclones are built on the same chassis, so they are easily cross-compatible.

A few retroclones do their own thing that might be hard to translate. Dungeon Crawl Classics is the most commonly cited example, what with its funky non-standard dice.

>>52079842
>>52080010
>>52080147
OK, thanks.

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Gimmie creepy/eerie/otherworldly encounters for an abandoned church.

Im struggling for some ideas for my post-apoc tribes, so I figured id make a table and roll for names and qualities. What descriptive words or qualities can i put on the list? One of the worldbuulding threads said i should ask here since you guys are good at tables apparently.

Just noticed that the more I gloss over rules that I believe archaic (search is only a 10x10 area, must rest a turn per hour, count encumbrance, measure distances when moving... etc) the less superfluous my games become.

No wonder osr games played with lighter retroclones tend to fall under a murderhobo play style; but all that dissapears when you run it with B/X btb.

>>52080260
The tombs are rattling. The dead are sealed in there pretty well, but that just means the pounding and shaking sounds under the floor never stop.

The baptismal font is full of seawater. Every now and then some creatures come out of the ocean and baptize a baby.

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>>52079785
>can I run an adventure written for the original D&D in Labyrinth Lord without changing anything?
Base-level OD&D (just the little brown books) is probably the most different from the other old school editions. It still has essentially the same core system, but there are enough little things that you either need to be familiar enough with the material to convert it, or you just need to not give a shit if shit is off and just ballpark it. Past that, shit starts to look pretty similar. Oh, AD&D has a lot more rules than Basic, but they're really built on the same framework. The armor class values may be a point off, but that's not particularly significant, and, well, it's mostly other stuff like that. The big difference is that hit dice are one step off: except for magic-users, all other classes get a 1 die-level bump going from Basic to AD&D (so a cleric in Basic has d6 hit dice, but d8s in AD&D).

But if you're just looking at shit in a module, it's not going to ruin everything if somebody has 5 hit points more or less. Of course, if it's an AD&D module, it might occasionally reference spells that don't exist in Basic, but you could always change those spells, or selectively port them over from AD&D.

>>52080010
>AC (armour class) adjustments are the most common conversion necessary.
As I mentioned, the differences between actual editions of D&D are minor. When you start getting into retroclones, some of them use ascending armor class, which means that you actually have to convert things, but it's all just different ways of solving the same basic equation. The pic shows how to convert D&D material to an ascending AC system.

>>52080260
>A single shaft of sunlight lights the altar. Except it's night-time.
>A beggar's skeleton sits outside the church doors holding out a cup. The cup contains 3 gold pieces. If any are removed it animates and fights as a 5 HD skeleton. If a character puts money into the cup then the skeleton mumbles a blessing and crumbles to dust; that character may re-roll any one die roll in the next 24 hours

>>52080147
>A few retroclones do their own thing that might be hard to translate. Dungeon Crawl Classics is the most commonly cited example, what with its funky non-standard dice.
Here's where I would separate retroclones from (non-retroclone) OSR games. To me, DCC does too much of it's own thing to be considered a clone, but it obviously still belongs to the wider genre of OSR games. Castles & Crusades is another example of this. And with these, you can't as easily convert shit. The just don't have the same cross-compatibility.

>>52080820
Not that anon, but I loved those. Post more!

>>52080477
Superfluous?

>>52080741
>The baptismal font is full of seawater. Every now and then some creatures come out of the ocean and baptize a baby.
GOAT

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>>52072260
>>52071956
The PDF is coming, eventually. I don't want to spoil my players.

And yes, the dungeon is extremely linear. It's also... very small. It's not comprehensive - it doesn't teach everything - but it does impart the lessons it's designed to impart.

>first room has no (visible) doors
The party leaves.

Seriously, these are new players. They are new to /video games/ even. They don't know to look for secrets. If you tell them "This room has only one exit, the one you came in through" they'll just leave. Dungeon over.

The Tomb of the Serpent Kings very cunningly gives the players an /open/ secret door to say "Hey, look, secret doors exist, but you didn't have to find this one. You should be on the lookout for others though."

>one corridor smells stale, the other not

Stealing this for level 2.

>60' corridors. Why? That's 12 squares long on standard graph paper. 12 squares of /nothing/. Who builds dungeons like that? What lesson do the players learn?

Also, for new players, I'm not a fan of "turn" terminology. Turns and rounds are for combat. Everything else is in hours or minutes, as needed. It feels so much more valuable to know that your only torch lasts "about an hour."

And the last portion of your post has almost nothing to do with dungeon design. It's not bad advice at all, but it's not relevant here.

I should write up the little blurb I shared with the players before game though.

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>>52075951
Poisons should... suit the situation.

Maybe it's Save or Die.

Maybe it's Save vs Con or die.

Maybe it's Save or take 1d6 damage immediately. Save again or take 1d6 damage every minute until you get a cure or die.

Maybe it's Save or Die Messily.

Maybe it's Save or take Con damage, as your flesh withers and droops.

Maybe its' Save or take Cha damage, as your flesh withers and your face slides off.

Maybe it's Take 1d6 damage automatically, and then Save vs Con to avoid becoming a snake-man.

Maybe it's Save or Die, and if you Save, take 1d6 Con damage and 1d6 HP damage and your hair goes white and your cock falls off.

Gotta tailor your poison to the situation.

>>52080871
>an incorporeal apparition kneels in a sort of confessional/shrine-niche. The apparitions will not react to the players and a successful turn or command attempt makes the apparition vanish forevemore. roll 1d4
>1. A male human cleric. He is sobbing and asking why the dreams are back after all these years, he though he had been forgiven.
>2. A middle-aged half-elf woman. She is angry at the impiety of her family and assures the idol she is focused on that she will make them regret their sins.
>3. A young human boy of 9. He tells the idols there that he saw some rude men hiding stuff in a certain house in the nearby village and they threatened to kill him if he told anyone.
>4. A teenaged human girl covered in rags. She laments that if only her father hadn't found out that her pregnancy that sprang from a tryst with an Orc was consensual she wouldn't be on the street.

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>>52080260
>Sparrows begin to scream "the bishop! the bishop!" and bow their heads, pressing their faces to the ground in a long procession. They will become agitated if the PCs do not do the same, and scream "bow! Bow! face down!" and flap into the PCs' faces. A few moments after the PCs bow, there is a shuffling sound, like something heavy and twisted marching through the cathedral. If the PCs look up, they will see nothing. The sparrows refuse to communicate with the PCs in any case.

is there an osr about normal people using guns and modern stuff?

>>52079785
That's more or less the stated purpose of half the successful retroclones (OSRIC, Labyrinth Lords, etc).
Letting people write content for dead systems while dodging WotC's intellectual property.

But yes, anything (modules, homebrew, splats, etc.) being discussed in this thread is easily adapted to any system being discussed in the thread.

>>52080820 #
>Except it's night-time.
Don't mention that it's night time, but hammer that detail in leading up to the part with the altar.

>mumbles a blessing and crumbles to dust;
That seems like the sort of thing that would be nice to reuse.
Blesses the first donor per day and stops blessing after being robbed, maybe?

>>52083010
I'm working on writing one that hacks together OSR style stats and a limited skill system with Song of Swords style wounds and guns, but that's not exactly a published, finished work.

So how does one go about designing a custom dungeon for an OSR game?
I'm trying to decide if, after my group gets done with God That Crawls, I want to throw them into a custom, non-official/non-raggi adventure, or throw them at something else weird(probably Death Love Doom or Scenic Dunnsmouth, if they survive, or switch to Better Than Any Man if they all die.

>>52084011
Graph paper, a pencil, and a general idea of the kind of adventure you want.

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Fucking AD&D. Okay, today's rules question is!

>Can Illusion spells actually do damage or kill?

Now before you think this is a stupid question with an obvious answer, allow me to contrast these two passages from the 2nd ed PHB, chapter 7: Magic.

>Illusions are spells of trickery and deceit, not damage and destruction. Thus, illusions cannot be used to cause real damage.

Seems pretty simple and straightforward, huh? But wait faggots. At the beginning of the very next paragraph:
>When an illusion creates a situation of inescapable death, such as a giant block dropping from the ceiling, all those believing the illusion must roll for system shock. If they fail, they die--killed by the sheer terror of the situation.
>If they fail, they die.

Oh you AD&D with your cheeky double-talk. Wtf.

>>52084011
>if they all die
On this note, anyone else have a purgatory/hell crawl for when this happens? Some of my weirdest sessions have been my party sneaking back to the mortal world

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>>52084081
>AD&D: Here in AD&D there are no rules! There's no government, no baby sitters, no bedtimes, no frowny faces, no bushy mustaches, and no negativity of any kind.

>OSR Thread: You just said the word "no" like a thousand times.

>AD&D: And there's also no consistency.

>>52084081
The illusion causes no damage. If you fall for the illusion you have to make a save or have a heart attack.

A heart attack is not damage in the game, it is an existence failure.

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>>52084095
I ask my players about the afterlife from time to time during games, so if it ever comes up, I have a sheet covered in notes about stuff their characters are expecting.

>>52084095
An anon posted one one a while back. One based on Theros' underworld might be neat.

>>52084081
"Not causing real real damage" and "can scare someone to death" aren't mutually exclusive. Just like you could be immune to damage but still die to a reversed Resurrection spell.

>>52084136
Kek.
Existence failure.
Man I bet you're a hoot at parties.

But you're right, later on in the fucking book right before the spell lists, it clarifies:

>"Instant kill" illusions that are automatically fatal regardless of level, Hit Dice, or saving throws: collapsing ceilings, inescapable lava pits, etc. The absolute maximum effect of these is to force a system shock check. Surviving characters are not further affected by that illusion.

The AD&D rulebooks, even the 2nd ed, feel more like you're listening to two guys ramble on about the game rules rather than reading a book. Sometimes the shit is so weird it boggles the mind.

>>52084205
PS - For anybody curious and unaware, system shock failure equals death.

>>52084205
You know what's even better? Monsters don't usually have a defined system shock roll. They save as Fighters of level=HD, but SysShock runs off CON.

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>>52084329
It's a good thing I have 3 weeks to prepare all of this shit in advance.

Looking up spell saves for monsters is just as fun. Almost like a minigame for the DM mid-session.

>>52084378
>spell saves for monsters
That's pretty easy, though. They save at level=HD, unless they're unintelligent, in which case it's level=HD/2. They use the Warrior save block, unless they have abilities of one of the other blocks as well, in which case they use the best save, like multi-classed characters.

Oh, and don't forget about ability damage on monsters, if there's any way of causing that available.

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>>52084378
Why are you using AD&D? There is a world elsewhere.

>>52084496
>Why are you using AD&D?
Because he's got brains.

>>52084405
How do you guys handle human enemies? I mean almost all of them have 1 hit die or less, usually 1-6 hp. This is a bitch ass enemy for any 2nd-3rd level character.

Do you just buff them up a bit, use heroes/class characters, or just have your players fighting more monsters and tougher shit?

>>52084551
Throw more at them. I men, have you looked at the Number Appearing line in the Monstrous Compendium's Men entry? Fucking 30d10 Barbarians/Nomads gonna make most single-digit levelled adventurers reconsider hostilities.

>>52084518
if he really got brains he would be playing story games

>>52084602
>if he really got brains
anon definitely got brains
wew

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Anyone pick up "Stay Frosty" yet? It's a little space marine bug hunt OSR game that showed up on DTRPG today. Wondering if it's worth the $5.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/206742/Stay-Frosty

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>line says "Game Statistics"
>doesn't actually give statistics

Man, later-day TSR was incredibly uneven.

Running a hex crawl in a naval campaign right now, have a few random encounter tables but little else - was thinking of incorporating a random island table, although I've already mapped the region.

What would you guys add, what do you think would really make for a cool old school seafaring hexcrawl? Or as players, what would you want to see? I know there are a billion things I could do, I'm just curious.

>>52084789
They usually do that when the attribute scores aren't high or low enough to be significant. Check Gantar's statblock on p9, the only one they specify is INT 19.

>>52084844
What are you using for naval rules?

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>>52084518
Look, he's run into a couple of... inconsistencies already.

There are more.

They are more severe.

It's a classic, but it's not gospel. Decades of thinking about games and game design has produced some very good systems.

What's the goal of using AD&D here? What are you trying to accomplish or evoke? Why this tool, for this task?

>>52084074
>a general idea of the kind of adventure you want.
I didn't have one, but then...
>>52084095
>>52084144
Thanks, that sounds potentially awesome.

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>>52084844
http://www.ragingswan.com/10-ghost-ships/

http://www.ragingswan.com/20-things-to-find-in-a-sea-cave/

http://www.ragingswan.com/10-pieces-of-flotsam-jetsam/

http://www.ragingswan.com/10-signs-of-a-shipwreck/

http://www.ragingswan.com/12-things-to-find-in-a-rowboat/

http://www.ragingswan.com/20-minor-things-that-can-happen-in-a-rowboat/

http://www.ragingswan.com/20-things-to-enliven-a-sea-voyage/

http://www.ragingswan.com/20-things-to-find-on-a-beach/

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>>52084899
Gentle background info prompts are a great way to do worldbuilding.

That's how we ended up with Franklin the Iron Frog, a frogling knight questing to reclaim his ancestral castle of Frogspur.

Frogspur was just.. invented, by the player. The map and the Kingdom shifted to accommodate.

>>52084898
Because it's fairly straightforward once you decipher the rules, it works, and it's classic. I have a few old friends who grew up playing it, so stuff like THAC0 is familiar for them and pretty easy for our new players to pick up.

I spent 2 years playing 3.5 ed and I can't tell you how easily that game because a page-thumbing, number-crunching, boring disaster if the DM wasn't absolutely versed in the system or very well prepared for every circumstance. AD&D is far, far simpler and has a much bigger focus on roleplaying.

Another AD&D question though, can a Shadow move through walls or doors? How about people? It just says it exists in the 'negative material plane' but doesn't explain what that is. I looked in the 3.5 Monster Manual and didn't discover the answer there either.

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>>52085041
Well, those are fair reasons. Run what you like. But comparing it to 3.5 is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Not sure if this is canon, but I'd say a shadow can move through any gap, but there has to be a gap. It can slide along walls and under doorways, but if the join is very snug, it might get stuck temporarily. It moves like a very thin pool of liquid.

>>52085041
I just checked the 2e version and it actually doesn't mention anything about them being incorporeal.

>>52085041
>doesn't explain what that is.
Check Planescape's Inner Planes supplement. Though, Planescape slightly retcons it in that the Demiplane of Shadow is a thing in PS, and that's detailed in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane. I'll have a rat about and see if there's anything else.

The usual response to that is 'make something up', though.

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>>52085145
Thanks, that's kind of what I was figuring. The 3.5mm says that it can fly so I nabbed that too.

We have other reasons for playing 1st/2nd ed., we all live in the middle of nowhere, no game stores, etc.. and most of us are married so we have to convince our wives to play and they've never played jack shit. AD&D is easily recognizable and we're familiar with the system. Also the books are cheap, so it's a go-to if we want to keep the game nice and smooth so the women folk don't lose interest.

Honestly, though, they're pretty fun to play with. I've had far, far worse newcomers to D&D and other RPGs than the wives. They do pretty well and are surprisingly creative - a breath of fresh air after playing with 'serious roleplayers' who powergame and nitpick over rules or fantasy fans who run every trope into the ground and snort when they giggle at unfunny things.

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>>52085041
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2015/12/revamping-undead-shadow.html

This post has some decent ideas.

>>52085182
Yeah I'm just gonna have it slide around real sneaky like on the walls, though I think it has a three-dimensional form from what I gather.

Kind of fun, never used a Shadow before. Thanks.

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>>52085233
Those... aren't the best arguments. The word "grognard" might apply.

AD&D is a system you know. You haven't really tried much else in the OSR line, so you fall back on it, and because you know it well you /make/ it a good system for noobs. But that's not the case, right out of the box.

But hey, it seems like we've got very different approaches, so I'm going to drop it to avoid starting more pointless bickering in the OSR thread.

>>52085182
Alright, so, if you have Shadows being inhabitants of the Demiplane of Shadow (contrary to what's written in the MC) then the shadows of physical objects such as walls will cause it problems.

Compare Spectre (Neg. MP), contrast Ghost (Ethereal). Ghosts are explicitly non-corporeal, and have to semi-materialise in order to do touch damage, Spectres and Shadows do not, suggesting they are already at least somewhat solid.

>>52085145 is a pretty good way of handling it.

>>52084081
Illusions cause "illusory damage" which vanishes after enough time.
If "illusory damage" would "kill" you, you pass out until some time after your go restores above 0.
Illusions that "kill" you but that *don't* deal damage (deadfalls, some poisons, etc.) are SS% or die.

>>52084597
>gonna make most single-digit levelled adventurers reconsider
4 fifth level Fighters will kill like 12-18 weak monsters per round.

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I wrote some tables for dungeon meat side effects.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-dungeon-meat.html

What other creatures should I write about, and what are their "core" side effects?

Also, don't eat the ooze, guys. It's got... bits in it. I don't think it's actually dead.

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>>52086058
Rust Monster. Carrion Crawler. Adherer. Beholder. Aboleth. Shambling Mound.

>>52081184
As in Final-Fantasy-Superfluous, where no decision is relevant as long as you have >50% hp.

>>52086058
>>52086642
Cool idea! My players are itching for a Delicious in Dungeon campaign.

A note on usability - it would be cool if you organized it in a more practical/intuitive way.
For example, instead of writing it per-monster, write a few generic tables: black meat, green meat, jelly meat, ghost meat, etc. So you end up rolling in several tables, but it's easier to run on the fly and more generic.

You can have a different die for each table, so you roll a d6 (woops you got parasites!) a d8 on the cooking table (hmm well roasted), a d10 on the meat table (and goblins are green meat, so you gain infravision!). Something like that.

Makes sense?

I hate how to cool posts are always when the thread is about to die

Hey just found out this old dude's youtube. Posting it cause I like the effort he put into his work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E0nDTPFp8I

>>52089140
This guy is basically a 101 on old school play. He mentions cool resources/blogs along the way too. A shame that's a bit slow and ad&d.