Why so few love for axes in general /tg/? Everyone loves swords

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>>52046506

I've never seen any actual hatred directed towards axes.

Personally I like them. But swords are cooler.

>>52046506
>>52046506
> So why so much hatred for the thing in fantasy settings and in this board in general?

It's poorly portrayed in media/film. Frankly an axe looks badass, but a shiny sword has more "bling", and it is always depicted as the traditional weapon of the classical knight/warrior, while usually axes are portrayed as crude, and they are usually depicted as barbaric weaponry. That, and media usually likes to make axes look fucking ridiculously oversized

Truth be told, I'm one of the few that would pick an axe over a sword everyday. It's lightweight, easy to carry and is basically a jack of all trades, you can use it for more than just hacking someone's shoulder off, and you can also throw it if you train with it (just hope you don't miss because now you basically gave your target an axe to kill you with).

And it is also devastating in combat since most of it's weight is concentrated on the bladed part.

People on this board and that autist Skallagrim argue that axes are hard to use and are inferior due to reach and weight. But those retards are picturing woodsman's axes or similar axes designed for felling trees or cutting wood. Tomahawks or Dane-axes where the favorite weaponry of many peoples all around history, even in favor of swords and other weaponry. Heck, even pole-arms have axe heads for chopping motherfuckers up.

Pratically, they are cheap and easy to use, while swords, maces, spears and etc where usually weapons of royalty (because they are expensive) or required some form of training.

But answering your main question:

> Why so few love for axes in general /tg/?

Neckbeards can't say they can cut through tanks with a tomahawk.

>>52046542
Everytime I post an axe in a weapons and armor thread I get called a peasant. Usually by a bunch of people (or the same fucker samefagging)

>>52046506
>>52046679
>>52046701
I've recently caught myself wondering why there aren't any videos of those HEMA folks training with actual axes.

Good thread, will be monitoring.

>>52046701

>weapons and armor thread

Just a bunch of catty autists sperging about stuff which is pointless even by the standards of /tg/ subject matter.

I avoid those for the same reason I avoid operator threads. Just a circlejerk of wikipedia professors arguing over who knows more about Byzantine shortswords.

>>52046701

They're probably joking, referring to the fact that an axe was often a weapon used by poor folks who couldn't afford to buy a specialized weapon.


>>52046679
>Dane-axes

Well, I guess that means I have to mention the Battle of Stamford Bridge:
>By the time the bulk of the English army had arrived, the Vikings on the west side were either slain or fleeing across the bridge. The English advance was then delayed by the need to pass through the choke-point presented by the bridge itself. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle has it that a giant Norse axeman (possibly armed with a Dane Axe) blocked the narrow crossing, and single-handedly held up the entire English army. The story is that this axeman cut down up to 40 Englishmen and was defeated only when an English soldier floated under the bridge in a half-barrel and thrust his spear through the planks in the bridge, mortally wounding the axeman.

>>52046728
>I've recently caught myself wondering why there aren't any videos of those HEMA folks training with actual axes.
> HEMA

Stop. HEMA is a joke. It's basically a bunch of neckbeards hitting each other with swords and trying to interpret ancient fencing manuals, akin kids that try to learn how to fight from instructional magazines. Think I'm lying? Every HEMA video on youtube depicts a fat neckbeard or a nerdish looking guy wildly hitting his friend in the face over and over again

If you wanna see REAL medieval and ancient weaponry fighting/sparring, you should search on how the Russians and Northen Europeans are doing it, because usually they are trained martial artists who are trying on their own to learn how to fight with ancient weaponry, I mean, not just reading some manual written 300 years ago, but throwing it all out the window and rediscovering how to use the damn weapons.

Also their culture somehow preserved a bit of that knowledge

Here are a few videos:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9RGnujlkI
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C_s3SHAZfI
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKMPIFJkzk

There is some other video where they actually have a Russian exercise kinesiologist alongside a historian explaining how the Spartans fought with shield and spear, they even bring out an actual aegis and spear made with the same materials and under the same way the ancient weapons were made, funnily enough they conclude they can't figure out how to actually learn how to fight with is, because the things are stupidly heavy. They surmise Spartans (and ancient people) were stronger than modern people.

The thing with axes is that they're practical because they're cheap and utilitarian. Swords were a status-symbol for a very, very long time (arguably forever). So what about the people who couldn't afford a sword? Spears, axes, and maces (all underrated) were king.

I love axes, but I think they need to be used in the right context, same as any weapon. Remember playing a norse axe-rogue in a Trudvang game I played with some friends. Why stab someone in the back when you can just chop their throat up?

>>52046893
> >By the time the bulk of the English army had arrived, the Vikings on the west side were either slain or fleeing across the bridge. The English advance was then delayed by the need to pass through the choke-point presented by the bridge itself. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle has it that a giant Norse axeman (possibly armed with a Dane Axe) blocked the narrow crossing, and single-handedly held up the entire English army. The story is that this axeman cut down up to 40 Englishmen and was defeated only when an English soldier floated under the bridge in a half-barrel and thrust his spear through the planks in the bridge, mortally wounding the axeman.


I wish they'd make a movie about this. It would simply be epic (if they didn't ruin it with stupid special effects that is)

>>52046953
>hy stab someone in the back when you can just chop their throat up?

Planting the axe in their skull is easier and does the job better I think.

>>52046988
Anything goes for Axe-Rogue.

>>52047066
Fuck yeah.

*axe high five*

>>52046941
>ignore historical evidence and just DIY it
>"accurate"

I mean it's probably fun and all that, but don't pretend it's anything near historically accurate. It's a bunch of gym rats playing calvinball with ye olde LARP gear.

>>52046941
>They surmise Spartans (and ancient people) were stronger than modern people.

They should've read some studies. We know the median size and weight of anicent greek and they were a good bit smaller than us. The greek themselves also never, ever deny that these things were a pain in the ass just to hold, in fact just being forced to stand still and HOLDING one was a severe military punishment.

But they covered you against everything that wasn't sling stones at long range (because those bounce and slide in under the lower edge, but they eventually fixed that by adding curtains) and they could be used as makeshift boats.

Why don't they get themselves a tactical tomahawk? Useful tool.

>>52047146

Did you watch the videos I posted?

Take all the tree videos I posted and now compare it to those

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFs4wP_hByA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0sWbkkh338


If I wanted to learn how to fight with medieval weaponry, I'd go with the actual athletes trying to re-invent the shit in a way that makes sense than with the neckbeards saying kneeling during combat is a sound strategy.


>>52047156
Stature has little to do with physical strength.
Take Jesse Norris for example. 5'5 dude under 180lbs that can pull 800lbs from the floor.
Or belkingonepower (that's his instagram handle), another very small and short man that regularly lifts 400kg.

Then there is Dan Green who regularly presses over 300lbs over his head while standing

> The greek themselves also never, ever deny that these things were a pain in the ass just to hold, in fact just being forced to stand still and HOLDING one was a severe military punishment.

I suppose that that is why they drilled with their weapons all the time. To build strength and endurance to use it. I mean, holding a .308 DMR is also painful, but the army regularly had us shoot those things from a standing position until our shoulders burned like fire. The same principle applies to plate-carrier armor. Just sitting with it is painfull, and yet we were forced to ruck (kind of a fast paced hike) with it for miles.

Wouldn't it make sense that a shield actually has to be heavy and hard? I mean, someone is gonna hit it it something equally heavy and probably devastating and I guess the purpose was to protect you.

>>52047234

I've been meaning to buy one for ages. To go camping, or to have it in hand. But there is simply so much crap out there and so many stupid reviews I'm afraid to waste my money on bad products.

>>52047373

The cold steel tomahawks are actually good. But I'd recommend you replace their shitty handle with an oak or ash one.

Mine broke the first time I tested it on a piece of wood.

>>52047076

> *High-fives with axes
> *both anons now only have one hand

>>52047480
Why is it that ColdSteel stuff is either terrible, or incredibly good?

>>52047361
>Wouldn't it make sense that a shield actually has to be heavy and hard?

The weight comes from their sheer size. They're thin and get pretty much all of their stability from their shape.

>>52046941
>because usually they are trained martial artists who are trying on their own to learn how to fight with ancient weaponry, I mean, not just reading some manual written 300 years ago, but throwing it all out the window and rediscovering how to use the damn weapons.
>Also their culture somehow preserved a bit of that knowledge
Perhaps they did so by writing it down.

>>52047531

Meh, they don't actually make their weapons anything. They have a guy that creates the design, and then they send it to a company that machines, forges or assembles it according to their specifications.

Rule of thumb with ColdSteel: If it's simple (a sword, a saber, a knife, a tomahawk) then it's good. If it's overly complex (like their folding knives) then there is a risk it's shit.

>>52047531
The steel an plastic parts on CS stufff usually are worth your money. Their wood handles apparently tend towards the awful in general. Like the one on their trench spade is machine-turned and has a flat surfarce right on top of the pommel that'll cleanly stamp a piece of skin outta your hand in short order.

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>>52047531
Or so bad it's good?

>>52046679
Polearm are pretty great. That daneaxe would be much better with a spike on the top so you can use it like a spear, and maybe a pick on the back for going through a fuckers armor.

>>52047629
There is a video on youtube where a Russian guy (in a prison) is demonstrating a bunch of techniques with maces and swords and axes.

When asked how he learned it, he said his dad taught him. It was kind of a past-time.

>>52046941
>>he doesn't know who renowed HEMA practitioners Matt Easton, Guy Windsor, Axel Petterrson, or Ilkka Hartikainen are, and thinks that all of HEMA is dweebs like The Forge twatting each other
>>he thinks getting rid of historical evidence and attempting reconstruction through use is both necessary and sufficient to understand older martial arts traditions
>>he's probably never fought with blunt steel in his life

Please for the love of god stop justifying HEMAfags' superiority complexes you absolute mong

>>52047629
Eww... writing/reading is for nerds.

>>52047698
my pollaxe friend of african american lineage

>>52047629
>>52047732

I want you to pick up one of those "LEAN MUAY THAY" books from the book store.

Then sign up for an MMA fight.

Tell me the result.


Nothing wrong with keeping a record. But you simply don't get how a movement or technique is done by looking at a poorly drawn picture that only shows the end of a movement's execution. Specially considering that those manuals are written in a dead language that nobody properly understands.

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>>52046506
I prefer my characters to use two handed Axes and Hammers.

I always wanted to make a guy that used pic related.

>>52046506
>I mean, the thing is still used for combat purposes by actual soldiers to this day, after centuries of existance.

Wait, what?

Soldiers are actually carrying tomahawks to the field?

>>52048297
Regular soldiers and jar-heads, no, they get to carry only what they are issued.

Specialized units, who can pick what they do or don't take to the field do, like Force Recon Marines and Army Rangers. Like I said, it's a weapon, a survival tool and a multi-tool, it has much more useful than a knife and weighs a tad heavier (1.5 pounds, but some bowie knives weight more than that.)

I know the French Foreign Legion let's you carry whatever the fuck you want as long as you pay for it with your own money and it doesn't get in the way of what you are doing.

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Hey folks, I'm a budding historian (part time MA), early/high medieval reenactor and A&A fantatic.

I've had the pleasure of handling some surviving examples, play fighting with a variety of axes (not exactly an accurate recreation of historical combat but it does offer a few observations on using weapons based on finds) and generally reading about the design and usage of early/high medieval weaponry.

If you've got any axe related questions I'll do my best to answer to answer them.

(Pic related is a dane-axehead found in the Thames, and my noodly right arm)

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>>52048113
>gstaff
>Broadblade short sword
What in the fuck am I reading.

>>52046506

Normans getting pissy because a viking yanked his shield out of the way with the beard of his axe while another hit him in the face

>>52046679
>Tomohawks were favored over swords
American Indians didn't even invent swords, so that's a dumb point.
>Dane Axes
Vikings were known for the quality of their swords

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>>52048831
>Vikings were known for the quality of their swords

Not really. As with pretty everyone else in Europe at the time, the Norse bought German blades and added fittings in the local style. Norway has an astounding number of swords found archaeologically but the famous Ulfberht blades were made in a Rhineland workshop (alongside the Gicelin and Ingelrii blades who form the other big two manufacturers).

There are some stunning examples of Norse craftmanship in the pommels and guards, but the blades themselves were either imported German work or local imitations.

In any case that doesn't detract from Dane Axes being a distinctively Norse weapon (until the A/S adopted it from their Danish conquerers, and the Normans from the A/S at which point it entered the general knightly arsenal of Europe).

One thing to remember about Daneaxes though is that most of the factors usually associated with (hand)axe use don't apply. These were dedicated weapons with no use as tools, used by highly trained professional warriors almost invariably equipped with swords and armour (especially important given the inability to use a shield in the offhand). Their use by groups such as the Huscarls and Varangian Guard was due to the devastating power of the weapon not because it was cheap/simple to use/ultilitarian.

(Pic is a Cross Axe, a variant on the Dane Axe. Made during the Conversion Period in Scandinavia these probably had religious significance aside from being lighter than regular Dane Axes though amusingly one has been found in a pagan burial mound perhaps as a trophy)

>>52048367

are traps gay?

>>52047361
Ancient diets do not really lend themselves to actually developing particularly strong. These people weren't just short because they were inbred, they were short because they were also stunted in various ways.

>>52048831
>Vikings were known for the quality of their swords
They were folded low grade iron.

>>52046679
>spears
>weapons of royalty
I agree with you about axes but come on, they're pointy bits of metal on the end of a stick, spears are the quintessential peasant weapon

>>52049845
The Lay of Thrym suggests not.

>>52048297
Lol douchebags mostly. There ain't much use for an axe that isn't fulfilled by simply having a multitool or a machete on you. Maybe some fancy spec ops guys like >>52048345 seems to think but then again those guys get away with whatever they want and even then I don't imagine them using tomahawks for really anything.

>>52048345
>people still buy the meme that force recon is on a level anywhere near rangers
Force Recon doesn't get to pick up that much.

Also the only FFL troops with axes are sappers, and no, you don't "carry what you want if you paid for it", especially not axes, which are a badge of rank for sappers.

>>52050044
Bad iron thats been folded you say?
I wonder if anyone would be interested in this. Maybe i can tell them on the internet, or if they are good at counting, sorting and not social situations.

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>>52050069
>spears are the quintessential peasant weapon
Spears are the quintessential everyone weapon.

Leaving aside the fact that peasant levies were not really a thing, nearly every warrior on a Early/High Medieval battlefield would have a spear regardless of rank with the main exceptions being if they instead used a Dane Axe (or other polearm when they develop) or were an archer.

A warrior without a spear was improperly equipped. Under Anglo-Saxon law warriors were obliged to equip themselves with maille, helmet, shield and a spear. When these laws were updated by the Normans in the 12 and 13thC, the only weapon a knight was obliged to bring was his spear (which is the same as a lance in this period). Now of course a thegn or knight wouldn't be caught dead without a sword, but legally it was not required whereas spears were. Similar laws existed in Scandinavia (and presumably in the rest of Europe given how they also used spears in the same way but I couldn't tell you about the legislation).

It is difficult to overstate just how central spears were to warfare. A huge of military kennings revolve around spears; battle are plays of spears, warriors are spear-bearers and so forth.

Spears.

>>52048113
Double-bitted axes are fucking stupid.

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>>52046506

I have a nonsexual fetish for axes. That is, as you say, an obsession of sorts.

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>>52050559
here's another axe for you straight from Path of Exile

>>52046893
You are a raider, legendary

>>52050211
Nonmilitaryfag here, what use do sappers have for axes anyways?

>>52050044
>>52050237

It's not so much that the iron was especially bad as because steel-working techniques didn't allow for the production of ingots large enough to forge a sword from a single bar which necessitated pattern welding multiple rods to make the blade. This is also why helmets of the same period are made from multiple panels riveted together rather than being raised out of a flat sheet as in later helms from the 11thC onwards.

Once single-piece forging is discovered to allow making blades from one piece of steel and the major production centres in the Rhineland come online in the 10thC the price of swords across Europe drop significantly. The fact that a trade in high-quality ores to feed these production centres resumed certainly helped them become established and maintain quality but the advancement in metallurgy techniques were far more important in moving way from pattern welded swords.

The idea that swords were rare or restricted to the ultra-wealthy is a characteristic of the pattern-welding era, and by the 11thC cheap swords were being cranked out in such numbers that they were well within the reach of most soldiers.

>>52050785
Pbly mostly traditional. Armies in general are surprisingly big on doing things just because it's always been done that way regardless of whether or not it makes sense. For example in Canada you have Task Force Tomahawk, where the dress code explicitly states you can have a tomahawk on your tac vest, simply because of the name. It's useless, nobody does it, but you can.

>>52047872
Or maybe, just fucking maybe, the instruction manuals are supposed to teach you the moves, that you then practice, when there's no-one convenient around to walk you through it.

True, possessing a book doesn't make you an expert, but if it contains the proper forms and you then practice them, oh what do you fucking know, it's as good as if someone who know's what they were doing was showing you! Someone who 'wrote the book' on such techniques, if you will!

Francisca or Tomahawk?

>>52046506
People fellate axes of all sorts here all the time, I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>52047645
But that's wrong though.

Most of Cold Steel's swords are shit and most of their knives are good or at least good for the money.

Cold Steel's all over the place in quality so blanket statements don't work.

>>52051939
>Cold Steel's all over the place in quality so blanket statements don't work.

Nah, their axes and machetes(providing you sharpen them yourself) are indisputably GOAT.

>>52047515
Just shove the axe in the stump.
Axe hand.

>>52048831
>>Tomohawks were favored over swords
>American Indians didn't even invent swords, so that's a dumb point.

He's probably referring to the extreme popularity of tomahawks in frontiersmen and Western/Appalachian militias, environments where the tomahawk had many practical uses outside of combat itself an its flexibility made it a great close combat weapon.

Spears, halberds, and other assorted polearms are the best weapons a man can have at his side. A mace of some kind makes for great secondary weapon if you don't have room for your large, phallic weaponry though.

>>52050559
An ax to grind?

>>52046941
You haven't studied enough

Vid 1: Not HEMA, archery
Vid 2 and 3: HEMA, 3 looks like Tallhoffers manual whilst two looks like a combination of a few fechtbuchs

In a combat situation, you only use an axe if you can't afford a sword or a mace.

Unless you're talking about a two handed pole weapon like a large Dane axe or poleaxe. Because then you have that and a sword/smaller axe as a side arm.

>>52046506

Because swords have always had mythologically thought to possess magical powers, or associated with the noblity.

Axes are tools for dirty simpletons and plebs.

>inb4 axe h8r

Not so fast my favorite weapon is the polaxe, also all my best friends are axes as well

>>52050785
>Nonmilitaryfag here, what use do sappers have for axes anyways?

They mainly use to use locally available wood in costruction. You gotta chop that.

>>52046506
I love axes, they deliver far more force to the target

>>52046506

Because for some fucking reason Supply won't let me have one. "Won't have use for it" my ass, I'll find one goddammit.

>>52046941
>>52046941
Your bait is rotten

>>52046728
Axes don't show up in HEMA because they aren't really discussed by the masters. That being said, some people are working on more living traditions, like bowie and hawk. Axe could also be learned by studying eastern martial arts (like fma).

>>52046941
>HEMA is a joke
>Posts HEMA
Hilarious!

>>52047361

>5'5 dude under 180lbs that can pull 800lbs from the floor.

As someone who is 5'6 and under 180 lbs who weight trains regularly, this fills me with hope.

>>52047872
I dunno, if all MMA teachers and masters had been dead for a few centuries I'd feel pretty good about my chances with my handy book.

>>52046506
Have you ever used an axe?
If it's not a halberd or a tomahawk it's SHIT.

>>52046953
Swords could be bought by the average soldier without impacting their economy. Just like cars today, you can buy a Tsuru and ram it into a post the same way a CEO can buy a Tesla and let it ram itself into a post.

In fact I suspect swords are so popular an iconic of medieval-esque fiction because they were as common in late-medieval onwards europe, asia and middle-east as guns were in america during the wild west period (and still are today).

>>52047531
If they made their Trench Hawk's handle of whatever the fuck their boomerang is made of, I'd buy 10.
In the meantime their tomahawk trainers are fantastic for target practice.

>>52047872
How do you think boxing became a thing?
They gave a rulebook to a couple street fighters and told them to teach it to their lads so (((we))) could make money betting and selling tickets. Now boxing doesn't look at all like it did back in the day after centuries of technical development and ruleset adaptations.

>>52046679
The real "royal" weapons were maces and hammers. Peasants wanted reach to be as far away from their opponents because they weren't equipped to ignore their arms. Knights and royals could bash heads with a big ass iron dildo on a foot long pole because they were clad in steel. Consequentially, they were also the weapon better suited to harming the other heavily armored assholes on the field.

>>52054486
I wish this polearms > everything, always, GOTYAY meme would finally die. There is a time and a place and a spear has a quite specific time and place.

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>>52055239
>In a combat situation, you only use an axe if you can't afford a sword or a mace.

That's not true at all.

Let's take a look at the Vikings, those stereotypical axe users. A huge number of axes have been found in Norse (and Pagan-era Anglo-Saxon) weapon burials. Spearheads are found in almost every weapon grave as you might expect, but under the "axes are for poor people" view you'd expect to see either swords OR axes as the secondary weapon. In fact, numerous graves contain spears, swords AND axes. Even for those with swords it still made sense to carry an axe, and it seems that as armour became more common axes displaced seaxes/war-knives as the back-up weapon of choice. The practice of carrying both swords and axes is also seen in the sagas.

Then you have examples such as the Mammen Axe (pictured), richly decorated with silver inlays and found in an extremely high status grave stuffed with silks and silver/gold thread embroidery. This is a handaxe for a very wealthy individual and not the poor-mans substitute for a sword.

Another good example would be the late medieval/renaissance Horseman's Axe and it's Indian equivalent, the one-handed versions of the Tabarzin (saddle axe). Both of these weapons were specialised anti-armour tin-openers used by mounted warriors in armour. These were weapons for the elites with the most expensive kit on the battlefield and Tabarzins in particular could be extremely ornately decorated.

Being fairly cheap can be a factor in handaxe usage, but the idea that this precluded wealthy warriors from wielding them when the situation merited is nonsense.

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Axes always seem to be inherently 'clunky' to use, due to the fact that you are swinging around a weighted head on the end of a stick. It's not as sexily dexterous as a sword, and it can't be used for parrying as well as one.

>>52056362
Fiore has a whole section on Pollaxe though

How does that not count as showing up in HEMA?

>>52057902
Also pollaxes. See: the hundred years war

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>>52046941
>langes schwert und ringen
>schielhau krumphau
>literally sourced from lichtenauer and meyer, #1 hema wankbook writers

why do you act like HEMA is some organized thing that americans do, like SCA? come to poland, we made HEMA a thing together with scandinavia and the dutchy. HEMA is just umbrella for anyone studying a historical european martial art, retard.

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>>52060312
>>52046941
also do not blatantly lie about things you know nothing of
>I mean, not just reading some manual written 300 (300? lol.) years ago, but throwing it all out the window and rediscovering how to use the damn weapons.
everything done in those videos are principels of meyer, lichtenauer, fiore, etc. don't be an idiot.

>Why so few love for [weapon] in general /tg/?

>Everyone loves [other weapons] and what have you.

>But why so much hatred for [weapon]?

>So why so much hatred for the thing in fantasy settings and in this board in general?

Just plop in whatever weapon you're utterly obsessed with, post it to a new thread on /tg/ togetehr with all the other whiners complaining about everyone else there not existing merely to provide them with validfation and entertainment, and you too can be a worthless sack of shit.

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>>52060359
But it's pretty much how threads are made anon. You can't just make a thread going 'I like weapon,' you have to incite some sort of argument or controversy that builds to argument. Otherwise there's nothing to - in an ideal world - discuss and question, or more likely screech about.

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>>52062193
I don't know, A&A threads usually generate a bit of interest with image dumps and discussion while remaining mostly civil.

Controversy and bait are more reliable and make for faster threads but is another way.

>>52046941
>Russian M1 armoured fighting
>historical in any way, shape or form

mate it's just people dressed in tin cans hitting each other with sticks

>>52060239
>Sorry, I was referencing hand axes like the ones the majority of people have been posting, not a polearm.

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>>52046506
I think axe lacks specialisation. You know, I'd pick sabre to slash some peasants, warhammer if I want to fuck with full plate. Why bother with versatile weapon.

It's almost mandatory for sappers tho.

They are mediocre weapons that are hyped up for no reason. They are the wests version of the Katana but have the saving grace of being a good tool.

Its like how people overrate the machete. Yeah it can fuck you up and the laborer carrying his tool to come around on an avenging rampage is neat but its a shite weapon.

>>52050474
>>52046506

The real question is why spears don't get more love in media and games.

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>>52063555
awful troll is awful

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>>52063578
a better question certainly

if we're going for primordial weapons you can't go further than "pointy stick"

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>>52063605
>>52063578
not saying that is a bad thing mind you...

>>52055918
SPC get back to work

>>52063946
>>52055918
get a transfer to a unit that works with field engineers, fire and rescue, humanitarian support, or in a forested/jungle area.

then you probably have suitable justification.

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>>52047361
>Wouldn't it make sense that a shield actually has to be heavy and hard?
No, because the goal of the shield is to deflect, not parry a blow.

You also don't want wood, you want layers of wood, glued together in some manner, to increase flexibility and durability.
And some sort of frame/grid to reinforce that even further.
And some sort of paint to hide seams/layers/weakspot, and impregnate it against the elements and degrade(short term, months to years)
If it breaks, thats a part of the shield braking/puncturing, instead of your dead body.
If its bad enough, it can be thrown away. If its not that bad, it can most likely be repaired, or recycled

There is also exceptions. I.E Pavises can be bigger and heavier. Sode(samurai shoulder armor) is used like a anti arrow shield and improvement of poorer armor sets. Bucklers is basically boxing gloves.
Shape also changes depending on warfare trends, materials, and cost(resources or time)

>>52063578
They don't fit in the set. Now even less than ever since most fantasy sets are small ass greenscreen rooms.

>>52063168
>why bother with a versatile weapon

Because the weapon that works alright in every situation is better than a weapon that only works great in one?

>>52063718
>pictured: future self-inflicted wounds

>>52063924
it's neat how easily one can tell the difference between "warrior's weapon passed down for generations" and "I hit my garden hoe with a hammer until it was an axe."

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>>52064628
>not wanting a hoe-hammer
>not being known as the Hoe-hammer, reaper of thots
>not drowning in pussy

Axelets, when will they learn?

>>52064990
HAMMER FAGGOTS GET OUT

GO MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD

>>52060239
Some people do, though not many. This is mostly because they generate massive amounts of force and even with modern safety equipment it is dangerous if hit in certain places such as the head.

In games I like to run a Ranger with an axe when I can. It makes sense for a woodsman.

got a whole faction in my setting that favors axes, usually a tomahawk used in tandem with a dagger or a gun stock, or a big dane axe like thing

>>52047361
If you want to learn how to fight with medieval weaponry, as they did, then you use the sources available.

If you want to invent a new way to do it, go ahead. But HEMA is "Historical", not modern. Quit being an arrogant retard.

>>52046728
Lack of historical sources.

>>52047156
>in fact just being forced to stand still and HOLDING one was a severe military punishment
And great training, I built an oversized, overweight shield for Dagorhir (american boffer sport, not quite a larp), and would just time myself standing in position with it. Made me stronger, more able to wield the monstrosity, and let me figure out that a diagonal grip was the optimal one.

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>>52047361
>talks shit about HEMA
>posts SCA

>>52048723
It should be a Cinqueda.

>>52050554
Only because you could put some more varied on the backside instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDwsDn6M-pU

>>52054912
I'd grind your axe, if you know what I mean.

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>>52067542
Forgot pic.

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>>52063578
Because like the hipster I am, I am disgusted by spears since a vocal enough minority enjoys them.

How dare they enjoy what I consider little more than a pointy walking stick for peasants. How dare they.

>>52050069
Arthur's lance Rhon and Cuchullain's Gae Bolg would like a word with you.

>>52063718
>Those welds

AAAAAAAGH, PAIN. And not the good kind.

>>52068138
LET THE PAIN FLOW THROUGH YOU

>>52046506
I prefer whips and spears, myself.

>>52064423
A reasonable spear is no bigger than a guy.
The real reason is that swords came from those pseudohistorical movies and became the Hero's weapon. Axes and maces look less sophisticated and elegant and are subsequently the opsotion's weapon.
Nobody cares about polearms, simply because they aren't the main weapon of choice and aren't the contrarian choice either. So nobody as choreographys for them prepared and from then on it's a self-perpetuating cycle.

>>52066543
>dane axe is also a .75 cal musket
>or a reinforced .45-90 sharps rifle

i need this in my life

>>52063168
The axe sort of WAS the war hammer for a very long time and was often used against maille the way a hammer was against later plate; a big heavy thing designed to smash right through it.
Notably, axes were still in use later when warhammers got more common as plate got cheaper and easier to make, but they got HUGE and were mounted on poles.

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>>52072262
pow!

>>52063709
I literally own exactly this axe. I got it as a birthday present. Unlike the katana from the same company that's complete toilet water, this axe can fuck shit up. We were having fun the other day lobbing pop cans into the air and slicing them in half.

>>52046506
>Everyone loves swords and maces and staffs and sabres
>maces
If there is a weapon less loved than axes, it's maces

Most of human civilization hasn't changed much. You wear your wealth and project your power as best as you can, every culture has abided by some variation of this. Swords take lots of resources to produce and maintain, While they do offer some functional benefits (thrusting, ripping), the real point here is that projection of your own personal affluence. You matter because you could afford to take a week or more of a blacksmiths time. This is why swords were often commissioned for purely ornamental purposes and worn more as badges of office or ceremonial symbols of status rather than simple weapons of war.

Spears, axes, maces and hammers use more wood and less resources to produce which naturally makes them less culturally important and more associated with the peasantry. This was during an Era where an axe could be produced quicker and more cheaply than clothing could and it's important to keep that perspective in mind when talking about the "unsung/underappreciated heroes" of warfare.

>>52057972
Spears for unarmoured enemies, pollaxes for armoured.

Anyone got some good pictures of the Varangian Dane Axe?

Character I'm writing uses one, I want to try and get a good feel for it, as it were.

>>52046893
The Dane Axe left such an impression on the English, they adopted it as their go-to weapon for slaughtering people.

Richard the lionheart, the most Martial king of England, Carried a Dane Axe.

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>>52073742

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>>52073955

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>>52073987

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>>52073994
Dane Axe hafts are shorter than most people would imagine, usually around 4 or 5 ft.

Here's a nice passage about King Stephen during the Battle of Lincoln (1141).

"Then was seen the might of the king, equal to a thunderbolt, slaying some with his immense battle-axe, and striking others down.

Then arose the shouts afresh, all rushing against him and him against all. At length through the number of the blows, the king's battle-axe was broken asunder. Instantly, with his right hand, drawing his sword, well worthy of a king, he marvellously waged the combat, until the sword as well was broken asunder."

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>>52074043

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>>52074117
Wearing a shield strapped to the back while using a Dane Axe is well attested with kite shields in the 12thC as in the previous two images, but evidence is sparse for the practice with round shields in the 10th and 11thC.

There is this extract from the Bayeux Tapestry, but there are doubts about it's authenticity since the BT was heavily modified in a 19thC "restoration". The shape of the shield is unusual compared to the kite or lenticular shields used by the other warriors, and all of the other axe-men are without shields.

>>52059641
Yeah im a dexfag too. I fucking fenced for my college with an epee. Axes seem too slow, and I would take a 3' pointed blade everyday of the week. I would carry an axe too, because utility

>>52064093
>deflect, not parry a blow

It's pedantic, but deflecting is parrying. The shield wasn't designed to bring a swinging mass of steel to a full stop

>>52046506
It helps to look at the historical development of weapons and how their application created lasting positive and negative stigmas.

Long story short, axes were cheap weapons. Both in the sense that they weren't originally designed as weapons limiting their overall combat effectiveness, and they were more widely available at lower prices.

As such peasants and the working class often used them in revolts and revolutions. Naturally the European nobles portrayed the ax and other weapons used by their enemies as bad. This type of propaganda was not only extensive, but persistent given that such weapons were often used because of their high practicality, specifically for non-nobles.

Now the fact is nearly anything can be an effective weapon, more so with good training. Axes have proven their usefulness over many years, but the stigma from days long gone is still there.

I often wonder similar things with a sling vs. a bow. Bows were much more expensive, but had a higher rate of fire and needed less training. Thus more developed nations issues bows as they proved more effective in wars, especially on larger scales. Despite how devastating the sling could be in a trained users hands. Basically the ability to quickly field large coordinated armies over shadowed the power of any single warrior.

It is amazing how context changes everything.

>>52046679
>Neckbeards can't say they can cut through tanks with a tomahawk.
Tomahawks are for submarines, not tanks.

Swords are a symbol of status
Maces are a symbol of authority

>>52047698
Congratulations, you just invented the halberd.

>>52074639
>quickly field bows

Anon, the people who used them in war had an extensive body of laws and customs built around training and using them during peacetime. You don't just hand people bows and get'em ready with a couple of days' training.

>>52079404
Not to mention how you need constant practice to keep your arm in.

Why do you think crossbows and guns became so popular?

Why is this on 10th?

>>52063038
A pollaxe is an axe, my dude, and it's used in the hand

>>52064628
Some of those are specialised tools for performing specific functions, like the hewing axe used for shaping timber

>>52073175
Maces are for those moments when you need some more weight behind your bitchslap, or you need to bitchslap someone in armor.

>>52065333
He said "weren't really discussed by the masters" and that was the claim I was contesting. Fiore was a master, he had a whole section in Il Fiore Di Battaglia on Pollaxe, and the anonymous bolognese manuscript exists, ergo axes were discussed by the masters and that guy was wrong.

You are of course quite right in that pollaxes are hard to train with safely, with even rubber headed simulators being a real hazard to use at halfspeed play with full head masks.

>>52073435
A pollaxe head is a very complicated thing to make in a smithy, and the best examples were easily as well made as swords of the period. See: A926 and A927 from the wallace collection. Tell me forge welding like that was less resource intensive, less skilled labour than making a jerkin. The pollaxe. particularlu, was feted as the weapon of royalty and the knightly classes in the 14th and 15th centuries. The sword owes a great deal of it's mystique to, well, myth-building and personal consumption. In it's time, the axe of war was just as great a weapon.

>>52073690
Spears are also for armoured people. Aim for the gaps between the plates and the joints.

>>52074639
>>52079404
>>52079786

"to make a good archer, start with his grandfather"

also lol "the european nobles" like they were a homogenous mass and also lol the french fucking loved pollaxes. geoffroi du charney went down swinging a pollaxe defending the Orriflamme

War axes are only useful when you're either fighting with no armor or clothing (and even then, any weapon is useful), or if you have to fight maille, since the shape of an axehead is pretty damn good at splitting the rings.
Otherwise, carry a sword or the criminally under-appreciated mace/club.
Really, they're all inferior to most sorts of polearm, and if you're not shit at fighting or in a duel you hopefully won't have to fall back on a SIDEARM.