/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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FIRST FOR MAGE SUPREMACY

>>52037764
>If you could redo one book, which one would it be and what it be about now?

Beast, and make it into anything other Otherkin: The Tween Revenge Power Fantasy.

>>52037764
>If you could redo one book, which one would it be and what it be about now?

Mage 2nd edition. First the color scheme, it just looks like any other Blue book instead of mage. I know Cheedar yellow and light blue was awful and difficult to read but maybe other combination of colors would have been better than just the blue book color theme.

And the art, its too similar to M20. I miss Kaluta and his art made me come back constantly to the wretched mess that was 1st edition....though i could do with no unicycles.

Could a mage erect a constant kinetic shield around himself to prevent surprise Celerity attacks?

If so, would it work for both oWoD and nWoD?
Are there any other defenses for speed-blitzing enemies that I should know about?

I'm (relatively) new at Mage and would very much appreciate some responses.

>>52038432
Are you regularly facing vampires with celerity?

>>52038432
It won't prevent it but it would force a clash as he tried to chomp down on you since vampire fangs are most certainly supernatural.

I would rule that he could still grapple you unless you set the terms of the spell to block absolutely all outside kinetic energy but that may be giving a monkey's paw to your GM.

Space or Time are better at preventing grapples imo.

>>52038604
>It won't prevent it
Except it would. Kinetic energy is just that.
The vampire wouldn't even be able to get close to the mage with that shield up 24/7.

>it would force a clash
That's not how Clash of Wills works.

>Space or Time
Space and Correspondence would be good alternatives, especially the later if we're going by Ward rules.
But who even plays Ascension?

>>52038674
I was going by the guidelines in creative thaumaturgy which stay something along the lines of shielding spells protect against a number of supernatural attacks equal to potency and the attack must win a clash of wills to take effect.

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>>52038674
>But who even plays Ascension?

Judging by these threads, lots of people.

But Shhhh... Shhhh... Now that Dad is home you're sanitized, watered down version of the game will wither on the vine.

We went through it. It's not so bad. Maybe in 2025, you'll even get a revival edition!

>>52038716
You don't automatically Clash a Shielding spell.
You would first need to properly contest it with something directly opposed to it.

>>52038432
>>52038674
>Wards and whatnot

oWoD Wards are very similar to hung/held spells, especially when applied to the mage.

They're quite powerful and can usually guarantee you a long ass streak of wins in white-room scenarios, as long as you prepare beforehand.

Speed kills are only a problem if you don't see it coming.

>If you could redo one book, which one would it be and what it be about now?
GEIST
fucking geist

>>52038432

Celerity can't interrupt Reflexive actions. Don't Mages have a ton of ways to cast reflexively?

>>52038904
Sort of? Not many example spells have a reflexive option and there isn't any real guidelines for reflexive spell casting. However with hung spells and conditional durations you can get the same end result.

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>>52038867
At least Geists had a semi unique concept in that its a lamer version of Demon the Descent.

Prometheans are lamer werewolves mechanically. No one wants to be a Promethean.

That guy who wrote the frankenstein strength power that doubles your strength for a single round, but you can't throw anything or attack, he ruined the book.

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>>52038432
>>52038432
>>52038432
Just layer an inhospitable place ontop of your own with correspondence. No assless chapped fanger is going to be nipping you when the floor is shared with the surface of the sun or crushed by the Mariana's Trench.

Are vampire teeth worth anything?

>Stake vamp with called arrow to the heart, got five successes
>Vamp player is screaming wtf
>Knock out his teeth with a rock
>Drag him around on a litter for the rest of the session and drop him at the first sign of danger

Good times.

>>52039353
The bigger question is why would the mage even need to cast reflexively to beat a whole Cotorie of Celerity abusing vampires?
Contingencies always beat speed, and mages are artisans when it comes to gimping encounters in their favor.

>>52039379
>gif

Came for the skin, stayed for the black block beats.

>>52039480
Why did you kill him?

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Christ, seems we can't have a single thread without all these "MY SPLAT IS BEST!" autists.

Moving on.

Post awesome WoD art!

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Toreador: they might be foppish, but darn if they're not pretty!

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Lasombra: dark and sinister, yet undeniably appealing!

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>ObrimosSupremacyForever

Why would one pick Requiem over Masquerade or Masquerade over Requiem?

>>52040285
That's gorgeous.

Wizards always have the coolest artwork.

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I find the Toreador to be pretty interesting on the whole: the whole "seeking to capture some essence of art and beauty, but never truly succeeding" theme does lend itself well to a game about slowly losing touch with your humanity.

>>52040335
>Masquerade over Requiem
Pick Masquerade if you want to suck Caine's big juicy penis.

>Requiem over Masquerade
Pick Requiem is you want spooky scary owls to touch your bum.

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Gotta love this guy's style; very clean and stylish, yet capturing expressions perfectly.

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Ghouls have it tough; either they get fucked over by their master's cruelty, lack of care, obsessive personality, or just plain sacrificed as a pawn on their master's century-old chessboard.

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These threads are fucking dead

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Tremere blood magic: always cool to see more art of that.

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I really like the shadows and the blood in this pic, and how they interact with each other: it makes for a really depressing and somber mood.

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>>52040482

But true magick is just so much cooler.

Can werewolves eat chocolate?

>>52040512
>Magick
>Using Awakening art
Why don't you share some of Ascenion's art, Anon?

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Masquerade artwork > Requiem artwork

>>52040157
>Paint me like one of your French vamps.
>Not "Paint me like one of your dead girls"

Nigga, please.

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excuse me, but i am a poorfag and i need a Ready to made characters, is posibly you have a pdf link.

>>52040530
No they would die if they did that.

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>>52040530
Lycanthropes metabolize theobromine faster then humans, but should not eat chocolate because it's a treat and they have been Very Naughty.

>>52040582
what is the sause of this image

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>>52040157
>>52040561
Kinda sails past "Vampire Artist" and ends up at "Vampire Artist trying WAY too hard".

I think this girl has been dead for a month and ordered that skull online. She isn't even aware of how bad a paint substitute blood is.

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>>52040285
Yeah, but it can't compare to the original.

>>52040607
She's a vampire hipster.

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>>52040553
>Why don't you share some of Ascension's art, Anon?

Nah, I will continue to post the exquisite art of Awakening.

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>>52040582
>Kassandra Leigh Puacell, Critical Hit

>>52040335
I'd pick Masquerade if I liked the classic feeling and sources like VtM: Bloodlines. It's also got a solid bit of warm memories because of high school, but that last one is just for me.

I'd say Requium has some interesting new ideas and, with tweaks, runs just a bit smoother. I like the idea of a setting without a big metaplot or a world war between two factions.

Either can be a lot of fun.

>>52040580
>>52040582
Who do I believe?

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>>52040656
>>52040580
>>52040582

It's not poisons to them.

They just can't have any until they stop leaving a mess everywhere.

Whats the best path and shadow name for a teen surfer girl?

>>52040718
Either Acanthus or Thyrsus, and probably something insipid that overly simplifies them and defines them by their mundane lifestyle rather than their Magic.

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>>52040718
Thyrsus is the obvious choice. Water association, good fit for the young and healthy and wild.

Haliae? Nymph of sea and seashore. Greek magic name, there's dozens of other options there. Siren or Nymph are likely too on the nose, unless she is the sort to go for a name with all the subility of a brick to the face.

>>52040763
how would a Thyrsus control the waves though?

>>52040771

By learning a few dots of Matter.. .. .. ?

>>52040681
Okay won't feed werewolf chocolate. If it was poison I could just use life magic to fix it

>>52040771
Spirit 1 should do the trick.

>>52040800
what spirit spell?

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>>52040771
A surfer, more then anyone else, would understand that commanding the waves is for arrogant fools. Adapting to and taking the best of every wave that comes instead.

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>>52040622
Nigga please.

>>52040335
Requiem's rules and Disciplines are designed and while it is metaplot neutral it does have a several history supplement books. In my opinion only having two big factions in Masquerade is silly. Finaly the metaplot is 90s as fuck, which admittedly can be a lot of fun if that's your cup of tea.

>>52040823
Masquerade also has fat goth chicks getting soaked just by thinking about Caine's massive penis.

>>52040809
Coaxing the Spirits.
Tell the slumbering potential Spirit of the Beach to act in accordance with its nature, and create you some Waves.

So what is a good Legacy for surfer Thyrsus-chan?

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>>52040827
That's reduclous.

Caine is barely a character in VTM. He's a mythic figure that doesn't get stats or show up in a game.

The chubby goths are all heated up thinking of their Toredore getting caught by a werewolf and fucked until they are a aching mess soaked in cum before being thrown out and told the same thing will happen every time they trespass in Shadow Lord turf.

Then they have to make a walk of shame back to their haven carrying their shoes so they can get home before dawn.

>>52040761
look at this faggot

>>52040860
Tamers of Rivers.

Mage is a boring game with no real antagonists or threats except other mages. Hubris isn't a theme or danger, if you always have enough power to deal with any consequences.

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>magefag is best
>werefag is best
Nigga please

Reminder that both Ascension and Awakening are the best things to ever happen to the World of Darkness.

Aaaaaaand everyone goes quiet as soon as a magefag strolls into town.

You guys are fucking pussies.

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>>52040908
Wisdom.

>>52040903
>changelingfag in the wild
They do exist

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>>52040980

Any faggots here who play High Wisdom Mages with increasing Wisdom as an Obsession?

>>52041071
That seems incredibly paradoxical.

And isn't doing paradoxical things how you commit yourself to the Abyss' anti-Watchtowers?

>>52041071
Once you're Gnosis 3, it's actually a really, really smart move.
Being Wise is as simple as saying to the GM you're not going to take a course of action you previously would have, and getting a Beat for it.
You don't even have to spend those Arcane Beats on Wisdom, you can just spend them on something else.

Being Wise is universally applicable and can be performed in many, many situations. Other Obsessions frequently aren't and can't.

>>52040622

UNICYCLE SUPREMACY!

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>>52041579

Attention
DaveB Supremacy has reached Google.
That is all.

>>52041612
What drugs do you think the writers were on to choose that artwork to represent the silver ladder?

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Is that better or worse than the Free Council leather and chaps gay pride parade art in Mage 2e?

Remember, gays apparently are both magical and fabulous.

>Chaps Supremacy

>>52041648
They don't look like the stereotypical homosexual

Only the flags give them away, or else I'd think it a post apocalyptic America.

>>52041615

What does this even mean?

>>52041620
Probably some strange substances from the mythical land of Brazil.

>>52041667
>They don't look like the stereotypical homosexual

It looks like a scene straight out of a pride parade from San Francisco or New York.

The Mage 2e Order art sucked except for the Mysterium and Seers of the Throne.

>>52041709
I rather liked the artwork for the Adamantine Arrow.

Looks like a small but highly dangerous Cabal of Masters getting ready to fuck up some other supernaturals.
Hopefully vampires.

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>>52041751
>I rather liked the artwork for the Adamantine Arrow.

Huh?

Since when did King Tut, Ming the Merciless and jawas on steroids join the Adamantine Arrow.

The scene looks like rejected Stars Wars concept art.

>>52041789
>"We will KILL the Batman!"

>>52041789
Yeah, it's weird.

That's probably why I like it so much. King Tut's smug face just makes me like it even more.

>>52041807
I thought that mages were magical Batmen?

>>52041807
>We will KILL the Batman!"

Riddle me this, who chose that piece for the AA?

>>52041789

Hail Ming!...errr... Down with the Seers!

>>52041789
>Since when did King Tut, Ming the Merciless and jawas on steroids join the Adamantine Arrow.

They obviously have the Cabal Theme Merit of b-list Hollywood characters and take their Shadow Names very seriously.

The Invisible Man is also part of the cabal, you just can't see him...

>>52041862

I like this.

Names of Wind Dieties or Beings that would be good Shadow name for Windy Obrimos?

>>52042075
If there by chance happens to be four members, why not name them after the four winds?

Unless you have more than that, in which case I'm too lazy to be of any sufficient help.

Looks like the guy who is criticizing Mage last thread is noe in OPP forums

>>52042105

Link?

>>52042075
>Names of Wind Dieties or Beings that would be good Shadow name for Windy Obrimos?

Are you looking for more of a Biblical/angelic or pagan/mythological theme for your Obrimos?

>>52042113

It's Dark Archon

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/member/11880-dark-archon

>>52042105
>>52042113
Yes, provide the link. I want to taste this salt.

>>52042113
Dark Archon on the last 2 pages of "What you don't like about Mage2e. Exact same arguments

>>52042144
>>52042148
Reading it now, sounds like he's pissed.

Pissssssssst.

>>52042075
>Names of Wind Dieties or Beings that would be good Shadow name for Windy Obrimos?

Here's a Wiki list of Wind dieties

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind_deities

If you want Biblical, any angelic-ly (-ael) name should do nicely.

>>52042120
Pagan. From South East Asian/Polynesian beliefs. Or even mediterranean

>>52042144
>http://forum.theonyxpath.com/member/11880-dark-archon
those time stamps tho

>>52042180

Polynesian deities

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Pa-Pr/Polynesian-Mythology.html

I think "Tawhiri" would be a solid Obrimos name.

>>52042208
An female ones?

>>52042198

They go back well into yesterday, and I believe he moved to the OPP forums when no one agreed with him here.

We've seen it a million times. The lamentations that a mage with god-like power is only challenged by god-like beings, and not street-level problems.

>>52042223
>An female ones?

Aren't you picky...

I would check-out the Wiki wind gods link.

However, there's nothing wrong with naming your female Obrimos after an ostensible male god, and vice-versa. A Shadow Name is about the power and symbolism, not gender.

I think a good way to make an "antagonist" in mage is have like an abyssal entity which is easily dealt with by one mage but the reproduce rapidly and can become a huge problem when it becomes an infestation.

So how much stuff should I throw at my vamps who decided to break up Hunt Club annual manhunt. I don't want to make it too easy for them but I always have trouble balancing this things.

For reference I have 3 neonates with reasonable stats in combat and investigation.

>>52041807
>"We will KILL the Batman!"

Thread winner!

I'm surprised WW didn't demand a female character in the Adamantine Arrow art. I'm sure someone like Elvira or evil Red Riding Hood would fit right in.

>>52042231
>The lamentations that a mage with god-like power is only challenged by god-like beings, and not street-level problems.
Note that I don't lament about Sleepers not being able to challenge god-like being. I lament the fact of actual god-like beings (4-5 level spirits and alike) not being able to at least protect themselves from Patterning spell. They absolutely could and should be able to challenge mages, but they don't.

>>52042270
I wouldn't label rank 4-5 beings as gods, per se.

Anything 6 and over is fair game for god status, just look at Imperial Mysteries.

>>52042231
Some things annoy me about mage but eh it seems pointless to complain when you can change shit up. I will say on a thematic level blowing through withstand is bullshit and I don't think it belongs.

>>52042255
>abyssal entity which is easily dealt with by one mage but the reproduce rapidly and can become a huge problem

Abyssal Herpes?

Wasn't something like that in Night Horrors: The Unbidden or Intruders: Encounters with the Abyss?

>>52042293
Im thinking like Invaders from the Gatekeeper series. They feed and reproduce on human vices and more advanced forms convert humans into one of them.

>>52042289

I believe the complaints about the exceptional success bonus are way overblown. However, given the already vast power of a master mage, and the fact that Potency usually starts on his spells at 5 with amply opportunity to increase it with a minimum 10 dice pool, eliminating that rule as a houserule would do little to nerf masters, even against a-level threats.

>>52042282
Anubis, Jackal-headed God of the Dead is Rank 5, for example. Royal Avatars of greater spirits are Rank 5. And their abilities are pretty god-like. They wouldn't have much of the problem swatting the mages aside, but for some strange reason they aren't able to protect themselves. Just as any other splat, mind you, including the mages.

>>52042315
You are right, Withstand is shit as it is, ES or not ES.

>>52042315
The real issue is just the nature of the game is so attack oriented shielding is just not as good. without prime you can't really defend against magic.

>>52042340

A Master of Spirit should damn well strike fear into lesser gods.
The "sorcerer challenging gods" trope goes way back to the days of Howard's Conan, it isn't strange for these occurrences to happen in fiction.

>>52042364
Should it? Because face it: once you get to be Master, game is over. There is no real challenge left. Archmastery is a luck-based mission, rank 6+ beings are conveniently out of reach for your spells and your lessers are just that - lessers.

Dark Archon is now claiming that Archmasters aren't playable in 2e.

I sure hope nobody informs him of pages 251 - 252 and how they automatically win any-and-all Clash of Wills and that their spells can't be countered or dispelled.

How many dots in Prime to materialize phantasmal bladed weapons?

>>52042395
There is no template for them as of yet in 2e. And I am informed of that. It's just that they aren't supposed to be your enemies in the same way Sleepers aren't supposed to be enemies of Mages.

>>52042380
This is legitimately a problem and I hope daveb fixes it without going have the st break the rules. If you have to break the rules to make the game function there is something wrong with the game.

>>52042340
>Just as any other splat, mind you, including the mages.

There really does need to be more options to resist magic.

I wonder how much mage fans would throw a shitfit if a splat came out that could easily and repeatedly no-sell spells without actually being crazy powerful like mages are.

>>52042427
>>52042456
Just fixing Withstand/Clash of Wills would be enough - for example, using Resistance instead of Rank to Withstand, or adding ability for spirits to resist hostile spells with their Resistance would be enough to fix the issue.

>>52042340
My solution is to create a Numen that allows a spirit to use its Resistance instead of Rank. This way Mages can still effectively use magic on spirits, but plot important spirits won't be automatically fucked.

The idiots complaining about Awakening need to shut the hell up, Jesus fucking Christ.

If you don't like something, don't fucking play it.

If you like something but don't entirely agree with it, fucking house rule it.

Enough with the pessimism, stop spreading your ill feelings to others that don't want it.

>>52037764

I asked this a few weeks ago, but does anyone have just the "World of Darkness General" words in a transparent background .png? I want to make more general related images, but I have no idea what font is used here.

For those more familiar with lines other than VtR. What antagonists or creatures described in books for other splats would make good transplant/appearance in VtR game?

>>52042506
I'm not shitting on Awakening, I'm just sharing some ideas and hearing what other people have to say about nerfs to see if I can use them. I want to find a way to nerf Mages so other splats can do something so I can use Mages as antagonists in games.

>>52042506

Make me.

>>52042592
If it was mage game you could od the opposite and buff other splats instead

>>52042476

I love it

>>52042644
How to buff them? I want to make a Mage game with vampires and werewolves protecting their own territories in the city.

>>52042664
This is faction vs faction or just cabal vs pack vs coterie getting shitfaced and getting into dick waving contest

Anyway I tend to give out abilities that further penalize casting at someone or rituals that unmake various sorcery's effects. If you have access to Ancient Bloodlines there is Septemi Bloodline there with powers that would be usefull in supernatural conflict. Just ramp them up for 2ed and hand them out like candy. Dunno about wolfs

>>52042878
>cabal vs pack vs coterie getting shitfaced and getting into dick waving contest
This one, no faction is united enough to start splat-on-splat wars.

>>52042899

Ech then it dependss on experience and resources and builds a bit. I once had a beginnerr thyrsus mage making mistake of engaging deva neonate in combat instead of running the hell out and lettingg the spirit he summoned deal with the vampire. In noob combat no one is safe

>>52038177

Wasn't Kaluta responsible for Goblin Silver Ladder?

Is there something close to the Nephandi in MtAw ?

>>52043215
Scelesti, Abyss-worshipping mages. They are even called Nephandi sometimes.

>>52043231
Nice, I'll read what I can find on them.

>>52038177
I find Kaluta very hit or miss, and he mostly missed in 1e, imho.
Ascension's art will always be better.
Wraith is the most beautiful line.

>>52043376
Read Left-Handed Path for that. They are cool, and have many really creepy ideas around them.

>>52043437
Left Handed Path is pretty cool book overall.

>>52042899

In 2e, vampires, mages and changelings have pretty strong social organization and cohesion. In fact, mages organize for the express purpose of mutual protection, including not killing one another in pursuit of mysteries. Werewolves are fairly unique in having a relatively high population, but decentralized power, even with the existence of Protectorates.

Nevertheless, there's no inherent antipathy among the splats like in oWOD, and the senior members of the various groups would quickly end any foolish attempts to sow discord without significant benefit. The various splats are far more likely to simply ignore one another or even maintain cordial relations for information, resources, etc.

Antagonism and competition could certainly exist among individual members or cabals/packs/coteries/motleys/etc, with the general understanding that if you' cause a mess, you damn well better clean it up.

>>52043503
It's the local thing. Consilium and Assembly in this town never fully merged; their alliance against Seers is more alliance of convenience, and leaders of both ruling bodies would be happy to do hostile takeover, but neither have the forces to do this. The same thing is with Kindred; they don't have the prince for roughly 80 years and don't want to have one.

>>52043503
I for one do not shy away from splats interacting with one another but it's rarely conflict and more bumping into each other in unrelated situations. Things like Mr.Henderson vampire landlord owning the building pack members live in

>John I did lift no animals policy because of you but this horse-sized spider on the roof needs some explaining

Help to bring another layer to the game without really forcing you to work on mechanics and balancing

What are the problems with Geist? I really like the idea of it, but am also aware of the absolute shit-show that was Geists release. What exactly happened?

>>52043633

It sounds like a sitcom on the CW.

Nobody like vampire landlords.

Shall I assume that the pack's next door neighbors are mages or changelings who are always up to some goofy shenanigans or sleeping with one another?

>>52044091
Neighbours would be mages.

The creepy maintenance guy who gets caught setting up secret surveillance is definitely a changeling though.

Outsider here. Why are tremere known as jews?

>>52043578
This could in fact led to some weird team ups like silver ladder and invictus teaming up on free council and carthian alliance

>>52044167
Beast is the guy that noone likes with everyone teaming up to finish him off with looney toons like traps

>>52044192
Well, Silver Ladder is actively working to dismantle Free Council by making the Assembly look like the useless and powerless cauldron of word bubbles and not being able to protect local mages (in contrast with Consilium, of course). Some of Free Council members think they are going to be better off as part of Consilium. Vampires could be part of that...

>>52044091
>It sounds like a sitcom on the CW.

Wolf in the House

Coming this Fall on The CW!

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Gonna post some $yndicate art, because cash convention is best convention.

>>52042396
If you're asking about Ascension, then Prime 3

Page 521
>In desperate circumstances, a Prime-schooled mage can also create temporary weapons out of pure concentrated energy –
blasts of Quintessence or swords of light. Such weapons inflict aggravated damage (as per the Base Damage or Duration chart)
and cost one point of Quintessence per use… or, for weapons that last for a length of time, one point per turn. When the
mage runs of out Quintessence, the weapon disappears. Unless channeled through energy-guns or conjured as miracles among
the faithful, such attacks are inevitably vulgar.

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>>52044552
A lot of this will be from the $yndicate convention book.

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>>52044595

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>>52044645

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>>52044667

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>>52044686

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>>52044714

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>>52044742

>>52044366
>implying that the assembly isnt that already

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>>52044772

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>>52044799

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>>52040577
Son, I know it's coming a bit late, but I have got you covered.

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>>52044822
Ms. J is probably one of my favorite of example PC. She's a $yndicate agent who's job is to work with reality deviants when the $yndicate deems it necessary.

Anyone here knows of any good VtM fiction? About the only official stuff I enjoyed was the comics. I've gotten so desperate I've even resorted to reading fanfiction and thus far found only one somewhat decent Bloodlines fanfic with a Tremere as the protagonist, but that hasn't been updated since 2015.

So what would you guys recommend as good forum to post my houserule project for awakening.

My main goal is make mage less a game of unlimited power and ponder what kind of person you have become and more one of magic not being perfect and having limitations Opp forums seem very rabid when one suggest even as a houserule to move away from the power and privilege themes.

The way am going right now is grabbing bits from ascension that affect magic but doesnt touch the spellcasting system itself.

Like, the the rule that once a permanent wound (a limp leg for example) is tied to your pattern you cant permanently healing it without taking a permanent paradox point. It doesnt touch how the spell is cast but how healing in general applies

>>52044921
>Awakening
>permanent paradox point.
>doesnt touch how the spell is cast

No wonder they got mad at you. This doesn't even make sense.

In Mage the Ascension is Permanent paradox rolled on every casting or only on vulgar spells?

>>52040903
Master-race Changeling reporting in

>>52040903
>TFW you realize the Ananasi are the worst changing breed because they genocided all the potentially super cool insect shifters

>>52044894
>fanfiction

Yeah, good VtM fanfics are pretty rare to come by... unless you enjoy reading about the bazillion romance fics that either involve Nines Rodriguez or LaCroix, along with a female protagonist.

>>52044921

You're not seeking to modify a minor rule or two, or tweak a small setting element, you want to wholly and drastically alter the fundamental thematic underpinnings of the entire game and the mechanics on which it relies.

Are you really surprised you received substantial push-back on the OPP forum? You're basically complaining the the entire game stinks as intended and designed, and want help rewriting it.

Worse, you fail to realize that most fans of Awakening like it because it jettisons most of the mechanical spellcasting and related problems and setting inconsistencies from Ascension. Looking to Ascension to "improve" Awakening will never be an easy sell.

If you don't like Awakening, find a game you do like. There are many modern wizard genre ttrpgs from which to choose.

>>52045050

>unless you enjoy reading about the bazillion romance fics that either involve Nines Rodriguez or LaCroix

I honestly can't understand the appeal of either of those characters, nor why would anyone try to write romance about them.

I really don't understand why anyone would write about romance in VtM to begin with.

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>>52045085
LaCroix is a pretty cool dude, once you go past the whole power-hungry vampire that tries to get rid of me thing, while Nines is the classic bad boy who is actually a good guy.
>I really don't understand why anyone would write about romance in VtM to begin with
Vampires have been sex symbols since the late 18th century. Some people just like tepid, obsessive corpses.

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>>52045000
>>TFW you realize the Ananasi are the worst changing breed because they genocided all the potentially super cool insect shifters

Yeah, they're assholes. But, if you wanna play a non-Ananasi shapeshifter of sorts, you could try playing a Gangrel vampire with the Hive-Minded merit, from Lore of the Clans.

> Hive-Minded (1 or 2pt. Merit):
> Your Animalism works on insects and other creepy-crawlies in addition to regular animals. If you select the two-point version of this merit, your Protean forms may take the form of an insectoid swarm rather than a single creature (though the swarm must be of a size equivalent to a wolf or a bat, as appropriate).

ALSO!

There's also the Samsa, the cockroach-shifters Mockery Breed created by Pentex. Several Samsa escaped into the wild and away from Pentex control, and are actually being taken under the wing of the Cockroach totem spirit (who in turn instructs the Bone Gnawers to help the Samsa out, or at least to never harm them, even if the Bone Gnawers don't understand exactly why).

>>52045172

No, I get that vampires can be sex symbols, that people like to romanticize them, but it's just not very fitting in VtM. Requiem, I can sort of understand, they're not as deadened of emotions as they are in Masquerade.

>>52044475
Reading these threads I've seen enough material to make several shows

>Wolf in the House
>Young Iron Master moves into Neighboorhood filled with supernatural residents
>The Lawn and Order
>Loose canon Adamantite Arrow McReedy is kicked out of Consilium to a remote holiday resort. As it turns out Abyss incusion turned all lawn chairs into vampires(that are still chairs)
>The V-Files
McReedy returns to town and is given a new partner. He is Obrimos policeman. She is Ventrue lawyer. They fight supernatural crime

And so on .

>>52044952

For now im toying with replacing permanent paradox with a paradox condition

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>>52045205
>No, I get that vampires can be sex symbols, that people like to romanticize them, but it's just not very fitting in VtM.

Well, it *can* be fitting, just look at how VtM handled Christof and Anezka in Redemption... that's how TRUE romance in VtM ought to be: fraught with dangers, the entire world pushing down on you and doing its best to break your bonds, and with no guarantee that it's actually going to last.

It all comes down to how it's handled and portrayed... and every "romance" fic of VtM I've read does NOT portray it correctly.

>>52045220
Too bad NWoD/CofD will never get any expanded multimedia ventures.

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>>52045257

That's more the exception, not the rule.

And I fucking love Redemption.

>>52045055

I never said that the game stinks. I said i want to houserule it for my home games but i could use people more versed in the system to see any glaring flaw mechanics wise.

As for other games there arent many urban fantasy games with medium crunch to use, fate/dresden is shit, urban shadows is to rules light, gurps is too rules heavy and need like 4 manuals to just start. Unknown armies is to focused on derangements to my tastes.

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Man, it's weird to think about how the guy who voices Beckett is also the guy that voices Deckard Cain in Diablo.

> Greetings Neonate, stay awhile and listen!

>>52045316
>gurps is too rules heavy and need like 4 manuals to just start
Bull-fucking-shit.

>>52045433
Yeah, its at least 7 manuals.

>>52045402

Bloodlines had a shitton of great VA.

Honestly, I can't remember if there was a single poorly done VA in the whole game.

About the only game that tops it in terms of VA quality is Legacy of Kain.

>>52045440

Isnt it 2 core manuals, the pdf thaumatology: urban magic and Gurps magic?

>>52045461
Probably. I only own one gurps book and I've never read it..
GURPS Mage: The Ascension

>>52045440
Even more bullshit. For playing WoD settings, Basic Set and Horror is enough. Thaumatology, if you want to play Mage.

>>52045484

So thats 4 books just like >>52045316
>gurps is too rules heavy and need like 4 manuals to just start.

>>52045172
As vampire elders go, Lacroix is an incompetent fuckwit. He's impatient, treacherous, and pretty pathetic. I mean, I get that the Sheriff is his muscle, and the PC is utterly badass by the end, but you think he'd TRY to fight back.

Even so, this is a pretty good if not totally rules compliant story about a ventrue office worker working for Lacroix- until she runs Nines Rodreguiz off the road after panicking.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5664524/1/Byzantine-Black

>>52045516
>Basic Set and Horror
>4 books
Shouldn't you be in elementary school and learn, I don't know, basic addition?

>>52045523

Is Lacroix even an Elder? I forget, when was he embraced?

>>52045527
>>Basic Set and Horror
>>4 books
>Shouldn't you be in elementary school and learn, I don't know, basic addition?
>>52045484
>Thaumatology, if you want to play Mage.

I dont know shit head, shouldn't you?

>>52045541
He was an officer in Napolean's army, and the battle of Waterloo was 1815. So he's at least 200 years old, and Elder status comes, depending on the era, at 200+ or 300+. In North America, it's usually 200+.

>>52045567

The wiki says he has to be at least 300 years old to be considered an Elder.

>>52045550
>Basic Set and Horror, 2 books
>Basic Set and Thaumatology, still 2 books
>even if you put them together, still 3 books and not 4
Go back to school, will you?

>>52045580
I've seen contradictory stuff, so I dunno.

Whatever the case, he's either an elder Ancillae or a young Elder, and is pathetic either way.

Age isn't really a big thing in Bloodlines anyway. I think the only definite Elder is Jack, supposedly a pirate from the Age, so between 300-400, whose an Anarch amusingly. Gout was Embraced in the 50s, Strauss is unknown as far as I know but can't be that old. The Archbishop is probably between 150-200, since most Archbishops aren't older than 200 according to the Guide to the Sabbat. Gary was embraced in the 30/40s, Isaac probably isn't that old given his attitudes, and I really really doubt Nines is more than 100.

LA is a city of young vampires.

>>52045623
>Basic Set and Horror, 2 books

The basic set is 2 books "campaign" and "characters" maybe you should go back to swallow DaveB milk.

>>52045523
>Embraced during the Napoleonic Wars
>"Elder"

Ha, no. Although then again compared to most of LA's Kindred he's practically an Antediluvian in terms of age...

I agree with all your other points, though.

>>52045623
>Basic Set
>Set
>1 book

Anon, plz.

>>52045633

>LA is a city of young vampires.

Makes sense, what with being Anarch territory.

Even if those idiots are getting played by the Kuei Jin.

>>52045316

You never said the game stinks, but you certainly implied it. You seem to hate many of Awakening's fundamentals, and your list of complaints is quite long and growing. After a certain point, it's time to acknowledge that Awakening is just not for you. That's OK, we all have games we like and dislike, but don't expect a game to be something is isn't and was never meant to be.

I also find it shocking and disappointing that, including Awakening, you list five of some of the most popular modern wizard settings/systems you believe are deficient. It leads me to think that you have totally unrealistic ttrpg expectations and will never be satisfied.

>>52045674
Sabbat and Strauss endings are the best.

Anarch and Fuck Everyone are the second best.

>>52045633
>Strauss is unknown as far as I know but can't be that old

Uh, actually, he makes a few references and you dig up some stuff on him that suggests that he might have been one of the original Tremere. He's definitely the oldest Kindred in LA except Caine, of course.

>and I really really doubt Nines is more than 100.

He was explicitly Embraced during the Depression, so as of 2004 he's probably around 90.

>>52045659
Basic Set is one book, anon. Like, you know, Peace and War - which is big, but still one book. And you don't even have to use most of it, so even less of that.

>>52045688

>Sabbat ending

What?

>>52045676
>You seem to hate many of Awakening's fundamentals
And there did you read that? Because he didn't said that anywhere?

>>52045689
Well shit, I missed that. I was planning on a Strauss run, it's been years since I did.

>>52045699
You need the Plus patch, since its cut content, and unfortunately it IS missing some content (when you get to hollowbrook you can agree to support the sabbat and unfortunately the otherwise wonderfully eloquent Archbishop is really, really curt because they never wrote it all) but the ending is neat and you get to fuck everyone AND take the city, with the implication being that you move on to saving the world more by fighting the Antedeluvian.

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>>52045698
>Basic Set is one book, anon. Like, you know, Peace and War - which is big, but still one book. And you don't even have to use most of it, so even less of that.

Okay anon, i am staring at the basic set and its 2 books so either. We are confusing each other and talking about differents editions/versions or something.

And still the points remains gurps is too rules heavy and it requires 3+ books. When i can just grab Awakening, 1 book, and rework the consequences of magic with rules to enforce them to me liking. I am not trying to insult fans of the game but it really annoying when one ask for helps in other forums to check some changes that they respond with outrage or saying "but muh theme". When all i am looking for is making mage more fun for my group and it doesnt affect mages as published.

>>52045726

Is the ending on Youtube?

>>52045812
Not as far as I can tell. Shame, too, Andrei has a great voice.

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>>52045773
>gurps is too rules heavy
I really want this meme to die, along with every single person who never even tried to open GURPS book, but still repeating it as a fucking sheep.

>>52045855
>>52045812
Wait, I'm wrong, found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgT3WwLZzFU

>>52045523
Heh I watched John Wick 2 yesterday and villain in that movie immediately made me think of LaCroix.

Smug, treacherous bastard

>>52045856

Dude, people can have different opinions of what is and isnt rules heavy for them. Your autism is showing, specially when posting a picture of the Deluxe edition

>>52045869

That was actually quite weak.

They just copy pasted Andrei's lines into the ending.

So how usefull is dammation city for requiem? Its a 400 pages monster but i read other "how to run city" books and they have been shit. Sanctums & sigils and lord of summer for example.

>>52044921
>So what would you guys recommend as good forum to post my houserule project for awakening.
Not here.

Unless there's two idiots who want to change Mage so drastically you might as well make it another game AND uses way too many run-on sentences without proper punctuation, then I'm going to guess that you're the jackass from last night.

Go away. All of your suggestions to "fix" the game were dumb and didn't actually fix anything.

>>52046310
>Sanctums & sigils and lord of summer
Those books were definitely not about running cities.

>>52046341
>All of your suggestions to "fix" the game were dumb and didn't actually fix anything.
What did he suggest?

>>52046343

Isnt dammation city for running the city "goverment" of vampires. The vampire version of consilium/freehold? I am new at requiem.

>>52046341
A simple fix would be to lower potency by half arcana instead of full and remove most es exceptions.

>>52046341

No, different anon. I was the guy who discussed how mage is god mode wankery, which it is.

And i am not going anywhere bitch.

>>52046407
Lower innate potency i mean.

>>52046407
Wouldn't it be better to boost Withstand instead? By allowing higher of Power Stat and Resistance Stat, for example?

>>52046380
Getting rid of reflexive shields, making fireballs function as big magic bombs, and letting a lone Sleeper be able to escape a psychic domination effect that a Mage cast on a crowd so that the Sleeper would know what happened and would tell a Hunter on you. Never mind that the Sleeper has no way of knowing what happened anyway.

Things in that vein. He never actually talked about mechanical changes in detail, iirc. Just rattled off a bunch of nonsensical examples of how his ideal Mage game would run, which is basically just Awakening with ostensibly nerfed Mages.

>>52046380

I suggested removing the ability to determine how much damage you could deal with an attack spell.

Removing quiessence, any kind of reflexive shielding or permanent one and make mortal able to "if a mage cast an spell in are with a duration, and a mortal withstand by speding wp and passes" the he isnt affected for the the duration of the spell"

>>52046447
No because it reduces power across the board while still giving them phenomenal power. boosting withstand is an option but this has a more pronounced effect.

>>52046428

Dont all spells start with potency 1 or thats no longer the case in 2nd

>>52046498
>Removing quiessence
You never suggested this.

>any kind of reflexive shielding or permanent one
You only suggested getting rid of reflexive shielding, and when you did you got a bunch of replies about how it wouldn't change anything, because of imbued items and lasting shields.

Don't lie.

>>52046517
Why reduce power if they'll still have phenomenal power? What does this achieve?

>>52046467
>Getting rid of reflexive shields
This is the most bullshit idea I've heard in this thread or in OPP. Without nerfing attack spells at the same it'll only lead to Disciples and Adept one-shotting each ones in mexican stand-offs, instead of just Masters with Unmaking spells. Mages need _more_ magical defences, not _less_ of them. I think making Counterspell reflexive would be a good move in the right direction.

>>52046556
He wants to nerf attack spells too.

He just wants Mages to be weaker. That's literally it.

>>52046517
>No because it reduces power across the board while still giving them phenomenal power.
Can't understand what you mean, sorry. I'll make a nice middle situation: spell of Master have 5 Potency at least, but Withstand of the same Master is 5 too, because Gnosis 5.

>>52046524
>You never suggested this.
Yes i did, i said that the mortal should be able to remember because there shouldnt be any magical fairy dust bullshit to erase his memory.

>>52046524
>You only suggested getting rid of reflexive shielding, and when you did you got a bunch of replies about how it wouldn't change anything, because of imbued items and lasting shields

One anon pointed out that in 1st edition you could make a shield last a whole day, i said i would remove that too.

>>52046518
No. if they did mages would have a harder time. They start with their arcana in potency. A master with an attack spell starts off with five damage off the bat.

>>52046543
Reducing potency makes withstanding stronger without making either a chore removing most ES effects ie withstand and instant unmaking makes it so that you can play as masters without having to bullshit rules to make it fun. Masters at this point are basically archasters in the old without the check and balances they had.

>>52046498
>Removing Quiescence

It's not Awakening without the Quiescence.

These types of "fixes" are precisely the type of ideas discussed earlier that undermine and radically change the very foundations and presumptions of the game as well as the rules designed to reinforce and support these themes and priorities.

Let's be clear, you don't really like Awakening and want a different game entirely. Stating that you like a setting or rule tidbit here or there doesn't change the fact that Awakening is just not for you.

>>52046568
But problem isn't strength of mages; the problem is that mages are vastly more offensive than the defensive. There are just no good defense options for Mage except shielding, and it still sucks because there is no universal shield.

>>52046585
>A master with an attack spell starts off with five damage off the bat.

It's a friggin' master, arguably the attack spell should start of with *more* then five damage, not less.

>>52046630
That's retarded. It works for all-powerful enemies it does NOT work when they are intended to be playable.

>>52046630
Yes, but master don't start with five Withstand, you see. Offence is stronger than the defense for spells which are Withstood (so, most of them).

>>52046603

The fact that humans forget magic the moment they see it is just there to make the masquerade plausible to autist fans. And for a theme of insolation thst can be bypassed with sleepwalkers.

The setting itself work with one big memory wipe at the start with the earth shattering event of atlantis getting fuck.

After that is not really needed for awakening

>>52046620
>There are just no good defense options for Mage except shielding, and it still sucks because there is no universal shield.

Huh?

Arcana 2, which every mage possess, generally in multiple Arcana, provides both a Mage Armor Attainment AND the entire Practice of Shielding.

If you believe mages have no good defense options, I don't know what book you've been reading.

Also, just a note, in the entirety of human history, armor and defensive technologies have generally lagged behind offensive technologies. The ability to defend against harm has rarely been absolute, and often virtually non-existent. Violence is dangerous and even terminal, and this state of affairs is hardly new, unique or surprising in Mage or any other rpg.

>>52046579
All you said was "no fairy dust bullshit" with no elaboration on that.

You can still make shields last all day, I'm pretty sure. Also getting rid of any kind of pre-prepared shield is skating pretty far into bullshit territory. You could just take a page from Dresden's book, allow imbued items to provide shields with a concentration duration, and allow reflexive shields to be weaker and more draining or something.

For somebody who wants to stress creativity in-game, you aren't getting very creative with your solutions. Can you blame people for pushing back when you're basically just advocating hard nerfs with no interesting alternatives?

Side note, learn how to fucking type and articulate properly, and stop replying to the same post twice in the same post. It's really hard to take you seriously when you present yourself like a fucking retard.

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>>52037764
I would redo Beast and instead of being a strawman discussion about social justice, it would be more heavily centered on the Astral and dealing with Freddy Krueger shadows. Keep fear as a central element, refocus the themes to be about truth vs fiction. PERSONA.

>>52046620

You bring a good point, i was focusing to much on mage vs mortals and not thinking on mage vs mages

>>52046714
Mage Armor does shit against spells with is Withstood. And if enemy is Adept/Master in Arcana you didn't learn (give that there is 10 of them, it's most likely than not), you don't get any Shielding against that. Enjoy being lawnchair until the end of time.

>armor and defensive technologies have generally lagged behind offensive technologies
And there is no reason for that in the fucking game about fucking magic.

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>>52044187
Hello, /pol/

The Tremere have that reputation because of all the clans, they're the most tightly regimented. They function as the conspiracy within the conspiracy because they were originally part of the biggest conspiracy ever: The Order of Hermes.

They were wizards who's masters, during the 11th century Renaissance and the beginning of the high medieval period, found the nature of magic changing and the potions and spells that kept them from aging were beginnning to fail. So, they tried to make one BIG potion from a captured vampire that would be the last immortality treatment that they would ever need. It worked, but it worked too well, and they became fully vampiric but lost their ability to work true magic.

In order to gain legitimacy, they usurped another clan and proceeded to smear them as demon worshippers, just using their level of superior organization and training to make others look like a threat rather than them.

Since that time, they're half clan and half mystic conspiracy. They look out for their own and they have initiation rites and occult practices and they use the blood-bond to ensure the loyalty of their childer with a supernatural shackle. They fight for the interests of the clan over their individual interests and fuck everyone else.

>>52046709
A lot of splats have supernatural forces backing their "Masquerade". Werewolves and Changelings, for example. Vampire is really the odd one out here.

What's more Quiescence is ingrained in the fluff. If there's no Quiescence then there's no Lie. If there's no Lie then how do the Exarchs come off as fucking god king tyrants who stole magic from mankind?

Just go find a different game, ffs.

>>52046652

Your problem appears to be that you want weaker mage adversaries or just lack imagination.

>>52046672
>Offence is stronger than the defense

So. Magic, and violence in general, is dangerous.

Complaining that there's few absolute defenses in mage is ludicrous.

>>52046709
>The fact that humans forget magic the moment they see it is just there to make the masquerade plausible to autist fans

Again, while you may not like or want the Quiescence in the Mage setting, it nevertheless is a fundamental presumption upon which the entire setting and rules are based.

Also, sleepwalkers are supposed to be rare, they're not an exception that swallows the rule unless you completely ignore the setting as presented.

>>52046719

Remember that dresden cant activate his shield "reflexively" something in dresden is that he might be a big bad wizard but he can be kill off with a sniper or sufficient quick attack

>>52046801
>So. Magic, and violence in general, is dangerous.
You miss the point. It is dangerous, but the way it is now, it isn't interesting. Two Masters won't have a kickass magic duel with shield, counterspells, magical feints and ruses. Instead, one of them casts, and the other is dust. You find this interesting? I don't. And the situation is much, much worse when it isn't two Masters, but Master and virtually anything else.

>>52046807
And this shields are not be all/do all. There was a scene in one of the books where shield stops the flamethrower attack but heat still damages his hand

>>52046801
Rules as written to make a master get interesting enemies you have to fucking cheat. Cheat As hard as you can. If you have to cheat to make enemies interest and if you have to make enemy mages break the rules so they don't get instagibbed the system is flawed.

Masters rules as written are more powerful than the rest of the setting baring rank six beings.

Defending bad design is just as bad as trying to remove it all because of one faulty but seriously important issue.

>>52046847
Did they remove Squaring the Circle in 2e or something? WHat you want has nothing to do with the casting system at all it sounds like.

>>52046807
He activates it "reflexively" all the time. Fast enough to block bullets from machine guns, at any rate. That might not be as fast as you would need it to be to block a high velocity sniper round, but things don't always translate perfectly.

>>52046850
No shit, it was a kinetic shield. Doesn't change the fact that you can adapt to a Mage game as an alternative to RAW shields.

>>52046877
>Did they remove Squaring the Circle in 2e or something
You know, if you didn't read the 2e, you really should shut the fuck up and don't mud the conversation without your uneducated opinions.

>>52046793
Like i said there is no need of quiessence past the fall of atlantis.

Exarchs won, remade the setting. Just a few mortals awaken but if a mortal see magic he doesnt forget, he could rationalize it or not.

Setting still more or less the same. The exarch are the "uber archmasters", the seers have backing of them and mages are still a minority. Mortal still live normal lives because getting to obvious withh magic equal paradox, seer, hunter or banisher attention.

Setting remains the same. And btw, ascension also didnt have memory erasing fairy dust.

>>52046847
>what is the Duel Arcane
Have you ever played a game of Mage in your life?

>>52046938
The 2e book is in the op do yourself a favor and read it you fucking moron.

>>52046936
If they remade the setting then why did they not put something like the Lie in effect? They're all powerful god kings, they can do it, so why not?

And even if Quiescence wasn't a thing, all that means is that you get GotV MiB squads who run around investigating vulgar magic castings and erasing the memories of witnesses that they single out and track magically, because they live to preserve the Veil.

Fuck me that actually sounds cool. But basically you would just be trading in one type of fairy dust for another, because tracking down Sleepers with magic from the scene of an event would be easy as dicks. Just some postcog and a few tracking spells.

>>52046938
>what is the Duel Arcane
Ridiculously boring mini-game with TWO ACTIONS, zero strategy and depth and literally no meaning except "lol, you get DEFEATED condition"? Did you read it yourself?

>>52047016
Yeah, it says you cast spells and they manifest to defeat your enemies, but the rules aren't tied to other systems so you can let your magic fly without consequence.

>>52046973
Are you implying that it isn't in there? Or is it not what you want somehow?

Use your words, anon.

>>52047067
I'm saying it doesn't change that the duel is over in one attack. Maybe it looks cooler than normal but one attack and it's done.

>>52047067
>Or is it not what you want somehow?
>kickass magic duel with shield, counterspells, magical feints and ruses
>Ridiculously boring mini-game with TWO ACTIONS, zero strategy and depth
Well, why don't you figure that out, anon?

>>52047096
What? The whole system has multiple doors and you literally can't clear them all in one go. Did you even read the rules and the options you actually have?

>>52040903
Hello my feelow changeling! I think we shoud meet! I have something to show you come alone.

>>52047164
Who the fuck let one of those creepy Fae on Mage wanking board?!! Fucking Acanthus!

>>52047183
Changelings did nothing wrong bro

Which splat, or book, overall has the best artwork?

>>52047288
Maybe not, but an Acanthus certainly did.

I'm running a new H:tV WoD game and I need a lot of token art for more than just monsters. Does anyone know of any good sites or keywords to search for these things?

>>52047015

There is lots of stuff that raise the same question regardless. Things that the exarch couldnt remove or cant remove so thats a moot point.

I am perfectly okay with replacing Quiessence with the Guardians of the veil keeping the veil by erasing memories. Because the latter is a source of story and because its also enforced by people and not a "natural" law like quiessence meaning that they can fail. People can fall through the cracks.

Even with postcog and tracking spells maybe there isnt enough guardians to enforce it or the silver ladder resist them. Or better yet, the postcog pings so often they just have to pick the worse veil breaches first and worry about the others later.

>>52046801
>>52046709
>Dissonance
They don't just forget. In scene they understand that fucker threw fire at them. After the scene they create a more mundane answer in their memories about what happen. A thrown fireball spell turns into a molotov. Either way, To sleepers the mage is still a dangerous mad man.

Dissonance only covers magic not stupid mages

>>52047304
>Which splat, or book, overall has the best artwork?

Changeling the lost.

>>52047472
Changeling the lost is master race in general. You mad hairy werewolfes? Muh spirits!

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>>52047304
Freak Legion

>>52047442
GotV members would not be in short supply, because like all orders they are a global organization, and even one Mastigos adept can pretty much handle all the Veil breaches for his Consilium, considering that Space and Mind magic would be the primary tools of a tracker/memory eraser. Throw in literally one dot of Time for the most basic postcognition and that Consilium is pretty much set.

Remember that performing vulgar magic in front of Sleepers is already a serious crime in RAW, and with no Quiescence it would only become a worse crime with worse punishments. So unless they're desperate, a Mage would not perform vulgar magic in front of Sleeper witnesses.

And for the Exarchs, you can't just say "they can't do it" when they've already done it. They've wiped away the memory of magic from humanity, what's stopping them from keeping it wiped? An Exarch of Mind could do it easily, because memory alteration is literally Mind magic. So why can't they do it?

>>52047597
>And for the Exarchs, you can't just say "they can't do it" when they've already done it. They've wiped away the memory of magic from humanity, what's stopping them from keeping it wiped? An Exarch of Mind could do it easily, because memory alteration is literally Mind magic. So why can't they do it?

By that line of reasoning, why the Exarchs dont wipe the minds of any mage as soon as he awakens? They can do it. And before you mention the pax, that could be why they cant continuously wipe the memories of humanity.

As for 1 guardian of the veil being enough, thats debatable. I am pretty sure that even in setting the guardians are the smaller order but i could be wrong. However aside from that, there is the fact that even with mind, space and time there is so much a person can do in a day. Assuming he is not a robot that just lives to fix reality breaches.

Considering that he doesnt just fix the breaches of mages and not of everything else supernatural or related to magic.

>>52047597
The difference results in a world that doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't the exarches just change to overt control magic causes no issue sleeper remember rule over them like cattle. The gotv are the SMALLEST group. they couldn't handle the work load. if you want the dresden files play it but thats not awakening and it completely goes against what awakening is thematically.

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>>52044963
I believe you roll Paradox for vulgar spells, but permanent Paradox only shows up when you botch a vulgar spell (?).

It's truly astonishing how many people truly believe that just because a game's setting or rules are not what they prefer or don't accomplish what they personally want, the game is somehow "broken" and needs to be "fixed."

This is a demonstration of ignorance, narcissism and/or quite possibly autism.

Not every rpg suits everyone's tastes. If you don't like a game, it does not mean anything is wrong with or it needs to be fixed.

As is evident by the number of fans and purchasers of Mage 2e, by and large, people are quite satisfied with the intent, design and execution of the Mage. Some are obviously not. That's alright, but complaining repetitively or loudly will not change the game, and will certainly not endear you to anyone.

Further, if your suggested "fixes" alter fundamental aspects of the setting or rules, it's a clear and unmistakable sign that the game is just not for you. Stop whining and find another game you do like. There are ample choices.

>>52047742
>if you want the dresden files play it but thats not awakening and it completely goes against what awakening is thematically.

Or i could just change Awakening into something similar until Dresden files is made into a system that isn't shit.

>>52047822

Dresden Files Accelerated should be out soon enough. Just wait a little longer for that.

>>52047802
Is two Masters insta-dusting each other is fundamental aspect of the setting? I doubt that. So not reason not to fix that for awesome Master-to-Master magic duels.

>>52047845

FATE is shit in both is slow and accelerated forms.

>>52047802
>It's my fault the game gives you access to master level powers but also completely break the game unless you introduce enemies that completely steam roll the party
The games not balanced well stop pretending it's perfect. I like awakening and dave b but fucking call a spade a spade.

>>52046774
You could add that their Ante is actually possessed by the one he tried to diablerize, and that he's been playing the conspiracy game since the first city.

>>52047304
Wraith.

>>52047734
Exarchs don't really care about Mages in the Fallen World. They care about Mages who pursue Ascension.

And yeah, one GotV Mastigos could fucking handle it. Veil breaches don't happen so often in a Consilium that he would need to run around all day plugging leaks. And why would Mages clean up after the other splats?

>>52047742
It is very ironic that you're getting on my case about going against Awakening's themes, since that's what you've been advocating this whole time. Even if you don't think so, a lot of other anons do.

>>52047851
There's nothing to fix, that's what the duel arcane is for.

>>52047859

Then just look up a guaranteed to exist fan GURPS version. You're not going to be able to play Dresden Files with Awakening, and the time it'd take to hack it into something similar is better spent looking for something that'll support it easier.

It's times like these that I wish Sorcerer (not WoD Sorcerer, the actual RPG game) had more popularity, since it strikes me as a game a lot of people who feel don't care for RAW Mage really want. That or Ars Magica.

>>52047802
>It's truly astonishing how many people truly believe that just because a game's setting or rules are not what they prefer or don't accomplish what they personally want, the game is somehow "broken" and needs to be "fixed."
>This is a demonstration of ignorance, narcissism and/or quite possibly autism.

Its truly astonishing how many people get butthurt when someone suggest to change the setting or rules for their own use because it doesn't accomplish what they personally want.

This is a demonstration of negation, fanaticism and possibly autism. Because they cant accept their favorite game is not perfect and someone might want to do something different with it.

You are sad anon. Well you are a magefag so you were already sad but now, damn.

>>52047924
You are an idiot. Duel Arcane is literally Magic Tea Party. You both just "attack" one other until one runs out of the doors without any real thought and strategy. You could literally just have a contested Arcana + Gnosis roll without losing anything to the "duel". Stop pretending it's interesting. It's not.

>>52037764
Mage 20th. Because without the Brucato shit, it's a very good compilation of MtAs publications.
Or a Mummy with the GMC update and without shitty sidebars telling me to play an Arab because Irem was in NotEgypt and there isn't embalming traditions elsewhere. Also, xir.

>>52047997
If you don't find that interesting there is literally no fix to the magic system that will change your view.

>>52047851
Mage is not D&D. It isn't an epic fantasy where all combat takes the form of incredible duels of flashing light. It's a horror game of modern sorcery, set in a dark and gritty, fucked world where fights are quick and dirty.

If you don't like that, go play a different game.

>>52047971

Branford's gonna be all Branford about it, but there's at least a core of truth there: there's doing something different with it, and then there's hitting a point where it'd just be better to find a new game system and/or setting.

>>52048033
Fights are nonexistent in mage. You go first and you win or you go second against a nonmage and win. There's nothing interesting about that.

>>52048065
That's why the game isn't about fucking fighting. I'm pretty sure that everyone has said effectively this in every response to you. Go pick up WoD:Combat and the Street Fighter books. Maybe that's more up your alley.

>>52048018

>he can't handle playing an Arab

If it really bothers you that bad just play the character after a Cultist transplant.

>>52048103

>>52048031
Of course there is. One just needs to make boosting Withstand and Counterspell viable alternatives in combat. That alone would make fights much more interesting.

>>52048033
>fights are quick and dirty
There is world of difference between "quick and dirty" and "first to cast wins".

>>52048065
To you, maybe. In my opinion it fits the setting better than artificially drawn out fights, and adds a sense of real danger. And fights are not non-existent. They happen in my games all the time, and they go fine.

>>52048018

Speaking of M20, has anyone try to fix that book? It is possible to edit the PDF? I am reading through M20 alongside Revised trying to make a coherent set of rules from it.

Would anyone be interested in it when i finish? Is there a game design thread in here?

>>52048182
I'd read it.

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>>52048018
Honest question: what exactly is wrong with M20 mechanically compared to earlier editions? I'm familiar with the faults of Ascension in general, but I haven't been able to piece together the M20 faults.

>>52048042

Who the fuck is brandford? And thats implying i dont have fun designing and thinking houserules for mage or any game for that matter.

But it kinda frustrates me how many people dont want to help other people with their houserules. If you know a system, you should be able to see if a houserule has an unintended effect beyond "muh theme". Be that making mages less powerful or those people who want to use wod to run Star Wars.

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>>52045085
>I honestly can't understand the appeal of either of those characters

LaCroix is a handsome fellow.

>>52048251
>Whining other people won't do your work for you and that they complain when you ask
How do you not expect this?

>>52048251

I tend to call posts like these >>52047971 "Branford posts" to rib on them. They just remind me of the posting style of an OPP poster is all, it's probably not even them.

>>52048251

There's a point where simply "houserules" ends and you're effectively demanding people assist you in writing a new game begins.

If you dislike so many key components of the setting and/or rules, why the heck are you still playing the game? Are you a masochist or suffer from some sort of compulsive disorder?

There are multitudes of different games and systems. Find one you actually like.

>>52048166
What level of power are your mages because the flaw exists at 4-5. When mastery is reached the game is just done. I'm not talking about artificially drawn out fights I'm talking about the fact that thematically if one of your PC masters mess with an enemy master pc and they don't have the same arcana that pc should just be erased from existence.

But doing that is a dick move you shouldn't do, so why should your PCs be able to instagib anyone? Yes it's not dnd and I don't want it to be. But something interesting is when something is varied. Mastery isn't interesting it's binary. Did I erase my target or did he erase me. Thats not a game.

>>52047971
>Because they cant accept their favorite game is not perfect and someone might want to do something different with it.

Sigh...no game is "perfect," and I imagine that among those of us who actually play the games, instituting some minor house rules are the norm, not the exception.

However, when it's obvious you don't actually like the game remotely as it was envisioned, designed and intended, and your "houserules" start to change key presumptions and foundations of the setting and the rules that support these foundations so drastically that the game is barely recognizable from its original presentation, maybe it's time to accept that the particular game is just not for you. This simple axiom is true whether the discussion is about Mage or any other rpg. There are many rpgs on the market. There has to be one you actually like.

Further, no matter how much you may hate a setting element or rule, it does not mean a game is "broken" and needs to be "fixed." You are not the standard by which all rpg's are judged. People have different visions, expectations and preferences (Heck, some people even like Beast!). The simple fact that the clear majority are basically fine with the game as written is a clear clue that your opinion might be in the minority. If you believe your ideas are "better," congratulations, go write and publish your own game.

>>52047288
Listen, it's not the Fea's fault. The change kings shouldn't dress so provocatively

>>52048568
Changling is autocorrected to change king for me. Surprised it's not changing.

>>52048325

I like the basic system. I like the "dressing" mechanics surrounding the "key mechanics".

And there isnt anything like wod. Dresden is shit, urban shadows is to rules light, GURPs is too rules heavy.

And its no more demanding than when someone ask "whats X rule said" or "help me write my game about magical girls."

I've heard princess crosses with mage pretty well. Is there any truth to that?

Might I suggest if you're complaining about virtually every game and system concerning the mage horror or urban fantasy genre, the problem may be you and not all the games.

>>52046310
Damnation City has a lot of good info not about running, but about BUILDING the city. It's almost like treating the city as another character. The mechanics for Domains and bonuses from things going on in the city, they're useful for other games too, not just Vampire.