Legacy General

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So what do you guys think about the current state of the meta? MUD got power creeped into eldrazi. But people seem to have stopped playing since they realized it had a lot of the same issues MUD did. Miracles is THE control deck. Delver and D&T are STILL the midrange decks. Aggro decks like zoo and affinity have faded into obsolescence. The only real variety that seems to be in the 'top teir' decks is in the combo variants. With storm having 2 diffrant variants and R/B reanimator is on a war path. Its interesting to see how far things have come.

>>52037768
I think the meta is still fairly healthy, at least in comparison to modern on standard. There's what, 6 or 7 viable tier 1 decks and about a dozen tier 2 decks you can pick from?

Standard is a 2 deck format, and modern has a few more but most decks have 90-10 matchups (or 10-90 if they're a dog) against most every other deck - the match is largely decided just by that unless you're in a mirror.
Contrast with legacy. Sure storm is not favored to beat miracles, but is very possible, and beyond just "miracles player never found a CB"

In any case, enough ranting. What should I prioritize with my tax refund? Duals, LEDs, or something else?

I have so much fun with R/B Reanimator that it feels underhanded most of the time.
Revealing Chancellor of the Annex must put my opponents on tilt something fierce.

>>52037694
Is there any place I can find a good, budget 12 Post Deck? I'm not expecting terribly cheap, but I want to get into the format and start playing with a chance of not getting shitcanned every game.

My Initial plan was Elves, but my legacy crowd at my LGS convinced me otherwise considering its difficulty to pilot and losing to miracles.

>>52039146
Well luckily for you, you can make a mono green post deck. You lose access to show and tell which is A HUGE deal, however hop over to YouTube and watch some mono-G post videos and see what you think. Been playing 12 post for about a year and I love it!!

>>52037768
Control and Midrange are just kind of what rises to the top when you're given access to the whole of Magic's history to work with.

I do wish there was a cool aggro deck in the format, but they'd need multiple pushed cards to make it work.

I'm happy with the Legacy metagame, even if playing against miracles feels like pulling teeth.

>>52039162
Thank you! I wasn't even sure what 12 post deck would be the budget one, but I'll be sure to check out some videos and see how the deck plays in motion as a budget build.

>>52039187
Yeah man. You don't even need Candelabra ( $300 a copy) I didn't even have it the first 6 months I played it. I do like blue because I get access to show and tell which can be back breaking if you get it really enough. Also force of will and flusterstorm in the side help us shore up our combo matchup as well and it wouldn't be legacy without mainboard brainstorm ;)

>>52039187
I feel as though the deck is inherently more powerful with access to blue and all their fuckery. However, the basics can be done with mono green as well. You still get crop rotation (powerhouse) as well as moments peace and Sensei's top. This way you can still get a feel for the way the deck plays, and how and when to rotate into what lands. Maze of ith, Karakas, and depths are all semi cheap thanks to EMA. Most of the cards from your mono-G will be able to carry over to the U/G version which just gives you access to your 'basic blue's package, including repeal.

I love repeal in my deck because not only is it a tempo powerhouse, it will also cantrip you and you can even Repeal your top, tap it in response and draw 2 cards before it goes on top of your Library for a free card. Repeal is also a big deal because you cum-pump mana so fast that by turn 5 you will be repealing your kozilek and casting him twice a turn to keep drawing cards. The deck is hella fun, and has a bunch of little nuances and lines of play to reward you for your familiarity to the deck.

Man parfait playing charbelcher is so much fun. It's so exciting watching it go off, especially with the guy infront of you has a bob on the field

>>52039140
It tilts me something fierce I tell you what

>>52039167
No they are not. If you don't have unnecessary bans like there in most formats combo would be dominating.

We get midrange and control because Wizards is pushing for it with bans and stupid card designs.

>>52041547
Okay, I'll bite. What banned cards needs to be unbanned for Aggro to have a good showing?

Also keep in mind that for the past 5 or so years wizards design philosophy has been HEAVILY tilted towards creatures being stronger and instants/sorcerers being weaker.

>>52041721
I don't need to keep that in mind. That is literally what I said. The creature power creep should not exist. Nimble mongoose should have been the staple, maybe Delver. Giving creatures abilities that should otherwise be possessed by enchantments or sorceries is fucking stupid.

Unban everything except power.
I imagine affinity would be looking quite good in such a scenario.

>>52041760
>unban everything but power
While I would enjoy a format like this, I can't imagine it would create a healthy meta. 4 mana crypt/4 workshop/4 trinisphere MUD would be disgusting. Storm with yawgwill legal would basically be circa-2003 Long.dec. affinity would be tier 2 at best in the face of shit like that.
Did I fall for the bait?

>>52041880
Shit let's not even talk about the academy decks. I'm falling for this bait so hard.

>>52041880
Nothing will ever be as powerful as LONG. Not even LONG.

Rules changed. The existence of Exile zone nerfed Burning Wish and Demonic Consultation shenanigans greatly.

It would still be a fuck-all fast and consistent beast of a deck tho.

>>52041889
>let's not even talk about the academy decks
No, lets.
>storm with Yawg will
Yawgmoth's Will should be unbanned. It would make storm no more degenerate than reanimator and more vulnerable to force. Storm could use a shot in the arm.

>>52042225
>Yawg will makes storm more vulnerable to FoW
That's some strong bait right there, but I'll take it.

You don't need yawg will to win, yawg will will just let you win next turn if you fizzled or got FoW'ed on a key card. Also, legacy has it's own extremely much weaker version in Past In Flames.

Before MTGO got most of the Vintage cards, it had a format called Classic. It had a restricted list, but didn't had power and some other cards.

Storm decks, even those based purely on LED+Yawg Will didn't care about FoW at all, the only thing that kept them from going rampant was shops.

You really don't know how resilient storm decks with yawg will are and even more so if given any draw 7's effects and you can't forget that in Legacy we have Brainstorm and Ponder unrestricted which, together with yawg will would lead to shit nothing in the format could even have a chance at fighting pre-sideboard, unless we'd also get shops decks.

>>52042307
Shhh, no tears, only turn one tendrils for 11 now.

>>52042178
I'm well aware of the rules change. It just means you wouldn't need burning wish anymore. You'd just play the yawgwills main.
>>52042225
>no, let's
>doesn't say anything about the academy deck
I don't see how a tinker/jar deck with unrestricted jar, tinker, academy, mana crypt, wouldn't be broken beyond belief. Or some kind of belcher/academy clusterfuck with living wish, like Danny batterman's The People's Cannon. 4 goddamn mana crypts. Fucking hell, you'd have time vault and voltaic key too in this fantask format. Christ I'm frothing. Can't stop falling for the bait.

>>52042420
If you're interested - Menendian has tested fully unrestricted Vintage decks.

Fully unrestricted storm gets practically 100% turn 1 win ratio, because of mulligans. Theoretically, it's probably 99.something, because in theory you can fail to find a mana source+tutor in all of your hands.

Other unrestricted decks do not even come close to such a win%, that includes belcher, flashhulk, etc.

4x Tolarian Academy
4x Mox Opal
4x Mox Sapphire
4x Mox Jet
4x Mana Crypt
4x Lotus Petal
4x Black Lotus
4x Memory Jar
4x Tinker
4x Windfall
4x Timetwister
4x Demonic Tutor
4x Ancestral Recal
3x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Underworld Dreams
1x Megrim
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Time Vault
1x Voltaic Key

No sideboard, coin-flip only, final destination.

>>52041760
Let me be clear. I play storm. I love storm. I have loved storm ever since I started playing back in 2007 when Nassif and Chapin dueled to the death in a storm mirror at worlds.

Yawg Will would take storm from tier 1 to tier 0. It would be excurciatingly painful to play against because suddenly you have a degree of resilience that is unparalleled. Shops MIGHT be able to steal a game, if they're on the play, and I roflstomped two shops decks in my store's vintage event with paradox storm, just because it does not give a fuck about what my opponent is doing. One counter won't stop me. One piece of hate won't stop me.

Storm does not need yawg will. We have PiF, we have magus. Shit's plenty good as it is.

>>52041880
I was not trying to bait you. Yes combo would probably be better, but an Academy affinity deck would be ridiculous.

I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and join this format. Big Red looks like the deck for me, any spicy variations on it?

>>52042519
I said no power.

Also provide link

>>52042519
you mean this? 70% goldfish with 1 card for protection?

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16641_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Unrestricted_Vintage_A_Magical_Experiment.html
and power 9

>>52042807
>take storm from tier 1 to tier 0
Where it rightfully belongs. Hail Yawgmoth.

Real talk though, how's Magus been working out?

>>52042894
>>52042871
I am a dumb cunt.

>>52041760
>unban everything but power
Literally turn 1: the format

>>52042897
Against sultai decks that expect to run out leovold as a way to lock me out of comboing out, it's sick. They're so afraid to trade it gives me time to dig for a decay or a win without needing to draw extra cards.

Against miracles it's not AS good, but countering a 3-drop is always awkward and he presents a respectable clock they probably boarded out their best answers to.

I'm considering bringing him in against stoneblade more but I'm not convinced he helps.

>>52044587
It's good to see legacy-playable cards coming out of supplemental product.

Can someone give me the rundown on 4c Loam?

Obviously yawgmoth's will is way too powerful for the format and would never be unbanned, but what do you guys think could be unbanned that would actually make the format better? Personally I think survival and frantic search are fine unbans that might improve the meta. I also think mind twist, earthcraft, and mind's desire would be fine to unban but wouldn't really change anything. Maybe if both search and desire were unbanned, high tide might be good again. Then there are some cards that I think would be ok to unban but probably not healthy for the format, like mystical tutor, dig through time, and necro. I am also not sure about yawmoth's bargain, would it actually be good? Would it replace ad nauseam?

>>52047571
Bargain is one of the most powerful cards on the list and will never ever be unbanned.

>>52047571
frantic fine on the list. Blue dosnt need more cards. If people want effects like that they can play red.

>>52047571
I think Necro would be an interesting unban, truth be told.

>>52049558
>unmask, ritual, necro
>necro for 19, pare down to god hand
>die to Gutshot

>>52049558
It would be interesting but I can't help but think it's too strong. I can't remember losing a game after resolving it. This is in vintage of course, but I feel like even in legacy it's too much.

Ok, fellas, I'm starting up a proxy legacy league in town because there are literally two people who have the resources to play here, and one of them doesn't like anything that he can't play moxen in.

So one of my roommates plays magic, but pretty much only commander, since that's the main format we all play. He's been playing for about a year and thinks legacy is stupid and everything is broken. He likes lantern control in modern, so I'm thinking of printing out a pox deck for him. Up to him if he uses it, but it's worth a shot.

So, I've never played with or against pox, anyone got any decklists?

>>52051847
>thinks legacy is stupid and everything is broken
>plays lets do stupid shit: the format
I really dont understand why people think legacy is is a format of turn one kills and dumb shit like that. The only time Ive seen a turn one kill in legacy was when a tes player drew THE NUTS and the other guy didnt have force. Most of the game i end up playing end like turn 3 at the SOONEST. Most of my games take like 7-10ish turns if i had to guess.

>>52051985
It's because of decks like Belcher and poops, and the way those decks are used to describe the power level of legacy. I've gotten. A few turn 1 kills, both with DDFT and Belcher.

>>52052052
What's poops? I want to play a poops deck

>>52051985
>>52052052
Hence why i'm trying to get him to change his mind. I'm really hoping this league get people more interested. Actually, has anyone here ever ran a league? Whats the best way to do it? Weekly swiss and play your opponent anytime during the week? We all meet at a games night every Tuesday, so maybe play up to two-three rounds per games night against different opponents? Just jam as many games with different opponents as you can every week?

What's a good X value on Chalice?

>>52052144
oops all spells. you ritual into a balustrade spy/undercity informer to mill your library then win with narcomoebas and dread return

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>dicking around on xmage
>the fucking SPEED of this format

God damn. I wish it wasn't so expensive though.

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Well, I had wanted to play Sneak n Breach on paper at some point in my life.

>>52053175
Yeah the price on breach is getting out of hand. My team split a playset, got them at 40 a couple months ago. They should have reprinted it in mm17

>>52053537
I just said fuck it and ordered proxies. My store allows it for weekly Legacy.

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>>52053175
Sneak and Breach is the most fun I've had in legacy in a long time. $240 for a playset is well worth it when you get to see the look on your opponets face when you turn 1 sneak -> worldspine wurm or blood moon + chalice on 1.

>>52053995
>>52053995
>turn 1 sneak -> worldspine wurm
I did this on xmage tonight, it felt wonderful. Seething Song and SSG enable so many horrifying openers.

>>52052935
Well, given that what seems to be 90% of the format is decks that play 90% 1-cost spells... I would say X=1.

>>52054415
Thanks anon. I'm still learning this format so please forgive my dumb questions

>>52052935
In the dark always put chalice on 1, against some decks chalice on 0 or 2 is back breaking

>>52049634
>>52051458
I think that if wizards said "We are going to try this and see what happens, not saying that it's no longer a problem, we're saying we want to see if it's still a problem or not" it would be a lot more doable.

>>52053175
What the fuck

Fucking Modern

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>>52053175
Looks like it got hit with a buyout because it wasn't reprinted in MM17. Literally only two copies on TCG.

>>52052052
I've gotten a single FTK with ANT since I've been playing it, and had it not been game 3 against mono-red burn (where I knew he couldn't possibly have Force) I would not have gone for it.

>>52047571
Yawg willl would be way, way too powerful. ANT wouldn't exist with it unbanned.

>mind twist
That is the very, very last thing you want to see unbanned in any format where it can be played. I'll take ancestral unban before I'll take mind twist.

>>52051458
>>52049558
Also, necro is far too powerful as well, in Legacy would be even more powerful than bargain actually. If you don't have FoW for T1 - swamp, DR->necro: You lose. It doesn't matter what you do on your turn after necro has resolved, you've lost.

And in Legacy you'd have 4 necros, so who the fuck stops me to mulligan to DR+necro against everything that doesn't run FoW to have a guaranteed win? And against anything with FoW it's just a battle of mulligans.

Necro is broken even outside combo, unlike bargain, because of it's cost. It's just unrivaled card advantage for anything that can run it.

>>52051985
Because Legacy is the new Vintage. Before Modern, people thought Vintage is Turn 1 the format. Now Vintage is some mythical being that you need to be a multi-billionaire who runs several successful corporations, has heavily invested in oil and gold and has a genius level IQ to play, while Legacy is the new turn 1 boogeyman.

>>52057889
Vintage is prohibitively expensive though, to be fair.

>>52057889
>mind twist storm 20
>You are on the clock
REEEEEEEDE

>>52057960
I like it that way to be fair.

Same as I like Legacy having an entry price. As Chapin has said - If Legacy had a GP, Brainstorm would've been banned long ago.

The less opinionated people that cry about everything, do not put in any time to learn, adapt and improve and imagine they're the best and always right - the better for any format.

Heavy price points for entry in a way assures me that only those that really care about the format and enjoy it will come to play it, instead of a bunch of morons move over from standard or whatever fuck and start crying about every single card that should be banned/restricted and how unfair format is, and how they know the best on how to make it better.

>>52053995
>$240 for a playset
Nah man. Also fuck $700 for the mana base.

>>52058231
Pro Tour, not GP.

My bad, had my head up my ass.

>>52058231
These are all good points. I suppose the higher price barrier makes for people more willing to actually learn the format and decks therein. I'm still learning both Reanimator and Sneaky Red and on xmage people are much friendlier and willing to talk about their decks, as opposed to people bitching about the best decks like they do in Modern or Standard.

>>52041721
something from miracles to nerf that deck
terminus alone negates a ton of non-blue aggressive strategies
and possibly deathrite shaman since it's just way too good at what it does

>>52054458
Normally 1 is the go to. Although 0 and 2 can be devastating to the right decks as well.

>>52058231
I agree to a certain point. Although every community is going to have its autists no matter what. I do like how the price of entry keeps a lot of the meme lords out. But at this point its starting to kill the format. And I kinda draw the line when decks can be used to put a down payment on a car. Its a bit too much. Since wizards has show that they don't care, I honestly think the answer is a overall community push for unsanctioned proxy events just to get people into it. I mean at this point how many people actually care about playing at high level events at this point, since its all for modern n shit anyway. Are you really getting anything from playing in a DCI event on Friday night as apposed to just playing without signing in some ID numbers? I could easily see way more brewing happening as well if this were the case.

>>52057705
How many were there before?

>>52053175

Crazy. I sold mine at $35 because I figured such an expensive spell couldn't go any higher. At 5 mana, in a format with no fast mana, why not just hardcast Unburial Rites to cheat your fatty into play?

>>52058858
>terminus

eccch. If there's one card I'd be fine with them banning, it's Terminus. Wrath effects should always cost four mana, unless you start attaching a serious disadvantages to it.

>>52059803
>Wrath effects should always cost four mana
Not in this format. When creatures can dump your hand, lock out a color, lock out a cmc, deal lethal combat damage on turn 2, or simply can't be targeted/ blocked/ damaged in any way, answers need to be on par. And it's polite enough to put it back into your library.
Shit son, just counter it. Not that kinda deck? Then just rip another creature and continue the pressure. If nothing else, the age-old strategy of not overextending still applies.

>>52059803
I never understood why people hate terminus and not counter top. Blue has enough counters/permission without needing a lockout combo along side it. I actually really like the idea of using top to abuse miracle effects. But I hate how it can have the normal blue counter package AND a lockout combo. I mean chalice is annoying, but you know exactly what you can/cant do and you don't have to worry about a fuck ton of other counters ON TOP of chalice.

>>52060032
Because good players know that CB+Top is ok at best and easy to deal while terminus is basically better wrath of god because drawing cards isnt that easy

>>52058231
Why do you think not being [whatever negatives you care do list] and being vocal about brainstorm being a bullshit card are mutually exclusive just because the format has a buy-in? Take Miracles for instance, people have had fucking years to adapt to it but it's like 20% still. That's tier 0 and stifling format diversity more than anything wotc could do. It's not like it's the last blue-based control deck on the planet.

>>52060371
Sort of is actually. Big Blue/Tezzeret is dead as fuck in Vintage, Blue Control in Standard hasn't been good in years, and
>Control
>Modern

So yeah, Miracles more-or-less is the last bastion for UWx Draw-Go in the entire game.

>>52060561
>he thinks miracles is draw-go
>not a prison deck that aims to build DIY chalice asap and switch to beatdown at the earliest convenience
>only source of actual CA is jtms and predict if even that
You got memed, friendo.

>>52060032
Before the printing of Terminus, aggro was an actual archetype in the format with a range of options that existed alongside countertop decks. After terminus was printed and countertop decks began to evolve into miracles, aggro got pushed out by control, which caused combo to lose meta share. Now the meta has stabilized somewhat as decks adapted, but miracles still has a slightly outsize meta share. To put it simply, aggro is paper and miracles is rock. When terminus got printed, rock started to win against paper.

I don't advocate a banning from miracles, but if wotc felt it necessary, terminus would be the correct choice.

>>52058231
>>52058284
Price should never be a barrier. This sounds like "muh sekrit club". WOTC doesn't listen to the memelords in Modern, why should they listen to these?

I mean I don't know of any other game that prides itself on being 1000$+ to play because it drives people away.

>>52060611
Not that I think miracles is a draw go deck but I don't think you're entirely right. The deck is more prison control. The CA is more or less dependent on the specific players choice in cards and if any control deck had wincon available early on in the game of course they'd try to beat face fast. The deck can also be very tempo based, though it's not my preferred style to play the deck.

>>52060561
>Miracles more-or-less is the last bastion for UWx Draw-Go in the entire game
>P A U P E R
>A
>U
>P
>E
>R

>>52061689
Tfw when shop is all gung-ho for shitty formats like tiny leaders and Frontier but nobody wants to play pauper.

>>52061765
Shit man, now that's suffering. Thank God my shop doesn't do either and I always shit all over whoever mentions those buggers.

>>52061765
Maybe if Pauper actually becomes a real format then people will play it.

>>52061765
Who plays tiny leaders?

Honestly Frontier is only made because Modern is expensive, especially in Japan.

>>52061969
modern wouldn't have this problem if they aggressively printed cards in the first place like they seemed to say they would when the format was announced.

>>52062210
I mean each MM was pretty much them messing around with it and I think MM3 shows with how much value it is.

>MMA had tons of goodies but low print run,
>MM2 was wider printed, but most of the value was at rare so it's stuck with an inflated price

Supposedly MM3 has an unlimited print run, but we'll see.

>>52062257
it was certainly a step in the right direction
modern just has a lot of problems with card scarcity in general, with a lot of cards simply being one of the only good cards in their respective set and never seeing a printing anywhere else causing them to be very expensive in comparison

>>52062257
>Supposedly MM3 has an unlimited print run
Who's dick do I have to suck to make this true? I mean I hate modern, but MM has quite a few legacy staples in it as well. 20$ goyfs and lilies when?

>>52063377
>20$ goyfs when?

2007, approximately

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>>52058237
Your playing the wrong format if you have a problem with $700 manabases or expensive playsets senpai.

>>52064043

Stupid frogposter

>>52064860
Guy's got a point, you are really in the wrong format if your not willing to drop >$1k on a manabase. Hell most decks with the exception of manaless dredge, burn, or oops! and a few other fringe decks going to cost more than $1000 to build.

>>52059723
Because Modern has a fucking boner for all things involving Primeval Titan

>>52064043
It just sucks that prices have been driven to this point. I'm still building the deck, mind you, it's just gonna take a little while longer. A set of Breaches and the City of Traitors are the only pieces I still need.

>>52065851
You can thank WOTC and their fuckery with the reserved list for those prices. Wizards wants legacy to die so they are trying to kill it by pricing new players out of the format. Eternal Masters helped some, but until we get more dual lands the format is ultimately fucked in the long term.

>>52066299
All investors and speculators need to be shot and their collections must be redistributed

>>52066299
Breach isn't on the RL, but honestly Wizards might as well keep a second list of "stuff they just don't reprint for a fuckbillion years"

>>52066842
Prefectly true, but breach isn't a gatekeeper for the format. It's basically the stuff on the reserved list that most decks run, the duals, CoTs, LEDs, Cradle, ect. that are the barrier to entry.

>>52066919
This is true. From what I've played online, I've fallen in love with this format, but it's a damn fucking shame that Wizards wants to let it die in a ditch since they can't move new product with it.

I guess it's a small consolation that MaRo (unofficially) hates the RL

>>52067049
>MaRo (unofficially) hates the RL
Wait seriously?

>>52067497
Yeah, a lot of people with the company do actually. Most of them aren't vocal about though

>>52068136
I can see that. I mean, a lot of people, even higher ups hate their job. But they dont go running their mouth about it.

>>52068136
I think it's Hasbro policy that they aren't allowed to be vocal about hating it.

I would love if in the final days of Magic, WotC just goes full maverick and dedicates all of their printing capability to crashing the value of everything on both the RL and non-RL eternal staples lists and making that their swan song. So that everyone can enjoy the best formats

>>52068208
I'm just imagining MaRo going all over all Bane at that announcement. "We take Magic from the corrupt! The rich! The oppressors of generations who have kept you down with myths of opportunity, and we give it back to you... the people. Magic is yours. None shall interfere. Do as you please. Start by storming Vintage, and freeing the oppressed!"

>>52068455
that is kinda interesting to think about. I mean, thinkg, wizards stops printing cards. But reprints fuck tons of everything before they go out. Dose every format get figured out? Is there eventually a 'Best deck'?

>>52067497
>>52068455

He was talking on Twitter on possible dual alternatives. I mean he's a game designer at heart and the RL goes against his values.

>>52069311
I kinda remember that, wasn't the idea to print dual lands like the original ABUR set but with the snow subtype?

>>52069524
Oh they'd definitely get in trouble for that. Reverberate was the last "skirt the edge of the RL" card I can remember, and I believe they caught some flak for it so they've been really careful since then.

>>52069524
What if they printed lands that had one basic land type but also tapped for a second color? could most legacy decks function with that? Seems like something they could release in a Commander product so it would skip standard.

>>52069811
That's not a bad idea but it might be too close still. I personally like the idea of legendary Duals

>>52070512
Legendary duals wouldn't be a bad option. They would be much better in aggro or tempo shells as opposed to midrange or control through.

>>52070529
There it's perfect then, wizards gets there creature boner going while also brining more affordability to legacy

>>52070529
>>52070678
The only real concern that I have with legendary dual is that you would simply lose to variance occasionally by drawing multiple of the same legendary dual making hands unkeepable and forcing more mulligans compared to decks running ABUR duals.

>>52070760
Yeah that is true, but atleast it would make it more affordable by having to buy less super expensive cards. I'm mostly just spit Ballin here

>>52070760
That would check the "not functional reprint" hole.

Also might help meme singularity decks and shit like that.


The other option is for example
god forsaken meme
Land swamp
T:add B (swamp type)
T: add U


Which is a bad underground

>>52039042
Duals, then led, then anything else.

>>52039042
2 Badlands, maybe a Bayou, then fatties and reanimation spells.

>>52071117
That kind of dual is still not strictly worse than the original duals.

>>52072003
Strictly worse !=functional reprint.

You could according to the list have the dankest lotus that adds 6 for zero. You cang have the dankier lotus that adds 3 mixed for 0.

Otherwise they couldnt make creatures at all.

Anybody seen this wild pile?
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/the-brewery-bant-lands-aka-top-bants/

>>52073262
Seems cool, Intuition for Loam+lands is sweet.

>Romain Van Den Daelen took down a top 8 with Esper Mill, using Hedron Crabs, Archive Trap, Visions of Beyond, and Jace's Phantasms.

God bless this stupid format.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-february-statistics-and-an-interview-with-ethan-gaieski

>>52073842
The jank factor alone makes me want to play this.

>>52073842
Jace's Phantasm is a bretty good beater

>>52068208
>I think it's Hasbro policy that they aren't allowed to be vocal about hating it.

It's beyond that. WotC isn't allowed to discuss RL, and they can't talk about why they can't discuss RL. It's a supergag.

>>52069524
>>52069633
Pretty much RL has an unofficial "loophole clause" aka Snow duals aren't breaking the list but it's obvious what they're supposed to be. However gold bordered duals are viable either. I don't think anything that isn't strictly better/worst will pass the RL.

How do people feel about running Izzet Charm in Reanimator? Daze is faster, but I feel like it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly.

>>52078421
>daze and izzet charm in animator
What?

>>52078431
Ub reanimated usually plays daze as far as I know. Rb is the more popular version now. He is proposing I guess a grixis version that uses izzet charm as a discard outlet and additional disruption I don't think it is a horrible idea but I suspect you'll find both nodes are too slow.

>>52078421
+soft Negate
+burns shaymin off the field
+instant speed loots
-heavy color weight
-increased vulnerability to wasteland
-cmc 2
-dies to REB and BEB
-like a moped, fun to use until your friends see you doing it

Famous Monsters is the best Misfits album.

>>52079989
Confield is excellent but I've really warmed up to Untitled. Can't get into Draft 7.30 at all though. Quarictice will always secretly be their best work and Oversteps good but outclassed by its own EP, Move of Ten. Exai is beyond lush and probably tied for second favorite over all. L-event is an underrated EP. Don't care much for Elseq on the whole.
You don't even need the other boards.

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Anyone here think burn is a braindead deck with a few moments where above average players can shine? Please explain why if you disagree.

>>52080628
Burn is the most complicated deck one could choose to play. Like, do they have a Healing Salve in there hand? You don't know! You just have to be smart and hold up mana for that critical turn where you burn them for 3 damage.

>>52080628
I won't go out and say that burn is a SUPER SKILL INTENSIVE (tm) deck, but it's a solid deck that does force your opponent to by in large respect that you have a clock and need to actually play the game instead of masturbating and waiting for the perfect hand to go off.

It's a good check on combo and tempo decks and helps lock down sequencing of plays.

>>52080628
I hate the deck but I have to agree with >>52080913
It's a necessary evil

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>>52080913
Most combo decks are fast enough that they don't care at all about burn. The only edge that burn gets against combo decks are stuff like storm that can't use AdNaus anymore. Put burn up against Big Red, Sneak and Show, BR Reanimator, ect, and I'd bet burn would steal maybe 1 game out of 10 if the burn player was lucky.

>>52080707
Why is it always Burn that illicits responses like this? No one ever will claim its the hardest deck to play but why does that matter. Im sitting down to play Magic not to compare IQs, if I want to play something more simple then why isnt that respected?

>>52081453
Because in a lot of cases playing against burn is like playing against belcher. Do you have the requisite hate card or a faster deck? No? Ok, you lose! wasn't that fun?

>>52081502
Burn is not an all in combo deck and since most decks run Force you get at least some fight in your deck. The deck cant even win before Turn 3 at all and a Turn 3 win is only possible with its most insane draw and no interaction so maybe 3 % chance of a turn 3 kill. More likely you are winning turn 4 or 5.

>>52081502
except burn dosnt get btfo by a single well placed for like blecher or other combo decks, because its not a dumb fuck gimmick meme deck. If nothing else people have to respect your clock. The also have to be super careful about their life total as well, in terms of fetching and paying life for things. Burn fine and one of the last bastions for people that want to play pure aggro. As well as one of the oldest decks around, AND a great starting point to get into the format. Its match ups really arnt that bad.

>>52081502
Also how come I see no complaints about even faster and more overwhelmingly strong combo decks? RB Reanimator is capable of having any massive fatty on board turn 1 and thats with using Unmask to take your answers to it. How is a turn 1 Goblin Guide worse then a turn 1 flying lifelinking 7/7 that draws 7 cards for 7 life?

>stop going to game store after 2 night of legacy not happening.
3 moths later
>call game store about advertised legacy
>say its been picking back up
>fuckyeh.jpg
>go to store
>judge calls you over after calling the modern pairings
>tell you you were the ONLY person to sign up for legacy
>go to register and get my 5$ back
I mean for fucks sake. How can a format with the biggest fucking card pool be like this? People need to get their heat out of their ass about lel turn one kill maymay, or u no dulals u no play BULLSHIT. There are a metric fuckton of fine decks that dont play duels. Burn,fish,12post,pox,ect,ect Why cant assholes realize that legacy is so much more than D&T, delver and miracles?

>>52081767
This is why im in multiple formats besides just Legacy. As much fun as Legacy is it just doesnt fire often enough so I have Modern and EDH decks too.

>>52081683
Idk, maybe people think its just a meme for now? I think its more because legacy has a shit load of easily accessible grave hate. Reanimator kinda has a cycle like that. People play it and it gets big, then everyone sides grave hate, then it dies down, ect,ect

>>52081767
It really just comes down to price. Legacy has such a high barrier to entry.

>>52081814
I hate modern so fucking much. I was excited when it was announced, then I saw the banned list and damn near every card i wanted to play was banned. Scince then its done nothing but fuck the secondary market even harder and drive more people away from legacy.

>>52081683
Because IMO, people come to legacy to do sweet things not play against small dudes backed up by a metric fuckton of the most efficient burn ever printed. It's just not what they are after in a game. Hell most people I play with would rather play against just about anything besides burn even if its a great matchup for them.

>>52081872
I came in to the game competitively around Origins and skipped Standard straight to Modern since I dont like a rotating format. Its a polarizing format, its certainly not perfect but I enjoy it for what it is. I dont mind the Banned list for the most part maybe theres a couple cards that dont need to be there but overall its ok. It and Legacy are the competitive formats I play and EDH is just for relaxing.

>>52081633
Agreed. A single well placed for will not stop burn, but the analogy is actually ok. Force beats belcher like chalice/trinisphere beats burn. Burn will absolutely roll over to the the correct hate card and die just like belcher.

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>>52081929
Defending a solitaire deck that plays itself. This is why legacy is dyeing. Because turn 1 sire is so much fun.

>>52081929
But in my view playing small efficient creatures backed up by the most efficient Burn cards is a sweet thing you can do in Legacy. Its such a fun deck to play, its adrenaline filled, its got unique answers and interesting interactions and its topdeck mode will have you sweating bullets only to feel the exhilaration of drawing the exact card you need. Its a deck that punishes you for misplays hard though.

>>52081834
This right here. BR reanimator got run out of my LGS after two weeks when everyone was starting their sideboard with 3+ surgicals or 4 Leylines

>>52081972
Another reason I like Burn is resilence to Force and Wasteland two highly played cards. Force you have to pay a life for so its not very good and the deck is Wasteland proof.

>>52081986
You misunderstand, I'm not defending those decks at all. I'm just saying a lot of what attracts people to legacy is the "forbidden fruit" aspect of the format where you can do crazy things fast that would be banned out of newer formats in a heartbeat.

>>52081990
To each their own, I'm just representing the prevailing view that I see in legacy. You may feel differently, but I've yet to come across someone who was excited to play against burn.

>>52082115
What I see is generally the opposite. I picked up some wastelands at the lgs. There were a couple youn.......ki......late teens...???? guys there and they were impressed with my buying of legacy staples. They told me about how they saw legacy affinity a couple years ago and how 'broken' it was. They didnt understand how anyone could take such a broken format seriously. Normally people say the preciveed 'brokenness' turns them off.

>>52081767

Ah, I'm glad my store's legacy events are picking up. They actually sacrificed a Modern night so now Legacy is played twice a month at my store, and it actually draws in more people than the modern nights.

>>52082878
Yeah, same things happening at my LGS. Legacy has been slowing converting over the modern players. It's to the point that modern hardly fires anymore and they are offering free entry to try to get the legacy players to show up to play modern night.

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Why should I not build dragon stompy?

>>52083856
No reason not to, it's a viable deck. Turn one chalice or blood moon demolish huge chunks of the format. If your considering a stompy shell deck I'd suggest looking at sneak and breach AKA big red. It's a bit more expensive to build than dragon stompy but you get sneak attack shenanigans.

>>52083856

please put dragons in your dragon stompy

all this goblin shit in dragon stompy makes me sad

Stormbreath Dragon is still pro-white, that dodges Path to Exile! AND it's evasive AND it has haste! Come on, dammit!

>>52084073
I was always rather fond of sneaking nicol bolas. Take 7 and discard your hand.

>>52081851

I don't think that's true. Sell overpriced, terrible Modern cards for good Legacy staples and you're more than two-thirds of the way there.

In my experience, Modern and Legacy play so completely differently and have such widely divergent staples that people stick to one or the other depending on where they started. Also, people's expectations of what a format should be often are formed by the formats in which they start, and I'll go out on a limb to say that only a choice few stumble upon Legacy Painter match reports and think, "I want to DO that."

>>52082366

What they're actually doing is telegraphing their insecurities over buying into a mediocre format where any deck can get the chop with literally no notice for flimsy or absurd reasons. They're spending 75% as much money on decks with ≤15% as much game, but they don't want to admit it.

>>52081986

If you had the opportunity to play a deck that wipes the floor with people on its own, why would you choose to play something worse?

Legacy is skill intensive because almost every deck that's worth playing in the format is like that. A three-turn game in Legacy is liable to be more intense, nuanced, and decisive than a twenty-eight-turn five-goat fuckshow in Modern could ever hope to be.

>>52082878
>>52083437

You are both extremely fortunate. Good on you guys for getting into a growing metagame in these dark times.

>>52083856

It's got a great setup, but little or no deck fixing and bad finishers.

With that said, winning off of terrible finishers in Legacy is balling out of control. Give it a shot if you've got the funds.

>>52081929
>>52081986
>>52081683
RB Reanimator is a lot worse.

At least burn is pretty much fair. Reanimator can sire T1 and null FoW, the policeman of the format with Chancellor of the Dross.

>>52084373
Starting from the bottom like me with no modern staples it's still a steep hill. I spent 160$ into Onmitell and stopped because I still have a long way to go and there's not a local scene.

Also the kids from >>52082366 aren't projecting their insecurities as much as you are. Many people do think legacy is a fast format.

Would Boseiju as a 1-of sideboard in Sneak n Breach be a bad idea? Either to power out the Breach or Seething Songs. Or is it worth just going as fast as possible

>>52084423

>Starting from the bottom like me with no modern staples it's still a steep hill. I spent 160$ into Onmitell and stopped because I still have a long way to go and there's not a local scene.

Rough. I sympathize; I managed to finish Storm in Modern a few weeks/a month before half the deck got banned for being too interesting.

I'm not advocating throwing down to build a Legacy deck if nobody else plays it, though; Magic isn't something one can play alone. Go for what you think will be fun and what you think will give you the most mileage.

>Also the kids from >>52082366 aren't projecting their insecurities as much as you are.

What?

>Many people do think legacy is a fast format.

That's pretty much what I said. I'm pointing out that there's a big difference between seeing a fast format and saying, "Cool! That looks intense!" and saying, "That's too broken." I have no time for the milquetoasts in the latter category, especially if they're the types to shell out for Modern Jund but get flustered by tier-six decks like Legacy Affinity.

>>52084423
>>52084423
>Many people do think legacy is a fast format.
It is definitely pretty quick, but it's not overwhelmingly, consistently fast like Vintage. There are fast decks but those decks live or die on the back of one resolved spell

>>52084534
I would like to play legacy but I'm considering modern. EDH isn't really something I want to invest In and nothing in pauper is interesting.

Being a spike without money is pure suffering.


Being fast isn't always a good thing to people if it means ending a game fast. Also iirc Jund is considered one of the most interactive decks in Modern.

>>52084521
When playing against force decks with sneak and breach my basic sideboarding plan is something like this:

Out: 4x Seething Song, 1x Blood Moon
In: 2x Pyromancy, 3x Trinisphere

The idea is to become more threat dense and resilient to their attempt to counter your stuff. I Also fight counters by jamming breaches at the end of their turn. With how breach is worded you'll keep the creature until your end step, forcing them to counter and allowing you to resolve a sneak, breach or pyromancy and kill them.

>>52084592
Seriously, just playtest some legacy decks, find what you like and start setting aside some money every month to buy staples. Most decks can operate on 1x of each ABUR dual it needs and shocks in the beginning without giving up too much win percentage. After that continue buying stuff piece by piece or trading and you have yourself a legacy deck. Just make sure that you are really interested and invested in mastering your deck if your looking at getting into legacy, it's too expensive to swap decks constantly unless you've been playing forever or have bottomless bank account.

>>52084672
I'm already messing around on cockatrice with:
Omnitell
12Post
My shitty variant of Takin Turns.

>>52084693
Legacy Takin Turns? Tell me more!

>>52084744
Pretty much it's not perfected, but the notable things are replacing a few cards with the Blue Cantrinity (Brainstorm isn't bad in this as you can miracle temporal mastery) and one too for late game. Only tried it against elves and stuff. I'm thinking about a few possible additions

>Leyline for storm and burn
>Snapcaster
> not too sure of any Legacy exclusive extra turn cards.
>Ensnaring bridge for BUG
>JTMS maybe instead of OG Jace?
It's not that viable in a world of fast wins, but

>>52084834
I think with jtms you wouldn't even need to chain that many turns together. You'd be so far ahead after brainstorming three turns in a row for free that the opponent would never come back.

>>52084963
Yeah, the thing is that Taking turns is slow. It's not good against combo or aggro as it has to resolve it's turns which at the very least come turn five (four when counting Baral). But it's fun to play it out as at least people have to watch the deck as they don't know what you're doing.

Also Lost Legacy seems to be a bit underrated.

So anybody been playing anything spicy recently? I've been playing this for shits and giggles the last couple weeks:

// UW Birdblade
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Meddling Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Spell Queller
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Karakas
3 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
4 Wasteland

// 15 Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Containment Priest
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Rest in Peace
2 Back to Basics
1 Disenchant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council's Judgment
1 Armageddon

>>52081453
Hey, that guy here. I have nothing against burn. Just shit posting. Sorry breh.

>>52085283
Wouldn't spirit Blade be a better name?

>>52086006
As it sits now yeah, spirit blade is probably a better name. This is my buddies deck that I've been helping him playtest, he originally called it birdblade back when it contained squadron hawk instead of mausoleum wanderer before Eldritch Moon was released.

Yesterday whilst falling asleep I was mulling over some possible doomsday puzzles and it hit me that magic can actually be a pretty complex puzzle game. I was thinking about how to phrase a DD puzzle to someone that doesn't know about the game and was surprised at how difficult it would be to explain. The number of things one needs to consider are huge. The mana and color required, cards in hand, cards in the MB/SB, going Labman or Drills, if you need to factor in removal/counters, etc.
It made my groggy head spin even though everything I wrote is pretty darn obvious. I guess I just appreciate this aspect of magic more now.

>>52086669
Post puzzles

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>>52088333
>>52086300
>>52084744
>>52082366
>>52081999
>>52081633
>>52069811
>>52069633
>>52069311
>>52068455
>>52068200
>>52066299
>>52063377
>>52062333
>>52061344
>>52060633
>>52060611
>>52052144
>>52041244
>secretly posting in a repeating digits thread.

Anons, redpill me on building this:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-03-17-legacy-faeries/
My favorite tribe in my favorite format.

So next weekend there is a tournament at some sketchy pawn shop in Farmington NH. Top prize is an unlimited Volcanic Island. But the risk of being raped deliverance style seems high. Should I go?

>>52089443
Not a very enticing top prize but you should go if it's close.

>>52082054
What about your Boseiju's?

>>52090613
I don't think burn plays boseiju.

>>52090613
>>52091105
I mean burn goes against counters with more burn. Boseijius are for omnitell.

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>>52088520
Seems like you don't have any ways to deal with resolved creatures, which could be an issue. Maybe a few Fatal Push would help. I always thought Snapcaster was the best honorary faerie, a few copies probably wouldn't hurt, though my experience only comes from modern faeries lists.

Since I'm running Tombs and Signets I can run a lot of pretty janky cards, do you think Ancient Excavation is over the top though? I've got Sword of the Meek to pitch and Academy Ruins/Crucible to get stuff back, and it also serves to make hands with all colorless mana keepable with its cycling.

>>52091105
>>52091423
My bad, I've seen burn run 1-2 Boseijus main and 2-3 in the side but my meta is pretty delver/miracles heavy so I guess that guy thought he needed the protection.

>>52080446
Autechre secretposting general? Also Quaristice and Untilted are great but COnfield is their undisputed masterpiece

>>52058231
>Spot the autist that cannot support other people opinion so hee needs it's sikrit club
You are the reason legacy is shit

>>52090613
Burn doesnt play Boseiju. I just run 12 fetchlands and 8 Mountains. Exquisite Firecraft in the SB if you need an uncounterable Burn spell is good. Legacys counters are usually soft like Daze and Spell Pierce so if you play well you can usually go a whole game without getting stuff countered. Also resolve Eidolon and counters begin to be less and less good. I love blue player tears so I may start playing Lands.

>>52084693
That's hilarious. I literally just finished my U/B Omni-Tell and I also play 12 post!

How does BUG Delver and Shardless fair against Miracles and Lands? Friends and I are going to proxy and eventually buy into Legacy and I 100% want to play Sultai. I don't want a huge advantage over Miracles/Lands, just be able to compete

t. Modern baby

>>52096658
Disregard this I'm just gonna play Aluren cause it looks fucking sick

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>>52096903
This is why legacy is the best format. Dont just play top decks because they top decks. Play what you like and learn it inside and out. Knowing you deck and how to play it will serve you better in the long run than just having the 'best deck'.

>>52096903
What flavor of aluren are you looking at? I've played recruiter, imperial, and BUG. The imperial and BUG lists are definitely the strongest in my opinion. Those are the flavors that I would suggest.

>>52098218
Looking at the BUG one, how exactly do you make use of Shardless Agent's Cascade?

>>52098637
Shardless' cascade is simply a value thing usually. You're basically playing shardless BUG with a combo.

>>52098637
With aluren out shardless and cavern harpy become: pay one life, cascade.

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>tfw your order has shipped
>tfw moving closer to ascending to best format

>>52100129
Congrats! What you building anon?

>>52100464
Sneaky Red. Only thing left now is the land base, those Tombs and Cities are gonna sting.

Thank God I bought Breaches before the panicked Modern players did.

>>52100495
Tombs aren't so bad now but the Cities sting for sure. If you scour the interwebs you can probably find some beat up ones for pretty cheap.