Should this guy get banned in Modern? He seems a bit overpowered.

>>52034148

Control decks already have a hard enough time in Modern.

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>>52034148
>He seems a bit overpowered.
What?

Losing to Grixis Delver, anon?

>>52034148
>Overpowered
Hahaha. No, not really.

It's good enough value that it's an autoinclude in most blue decks, but it's not oppressive or format-warping in the way that Twin or Eldrazi Winter were.

The REAL problem with snappy is low print runs + the ability to easily slot into every deck leading to a huge disparity between supply and demand and therefore stupidly high prices.

>>52035469
>Twin winter
Spot the scrub that tapped out in t3
Kys plz

>>52035469
Twin, oppressive? Lmaooo what??

>>52035469
Twin was never oppressive

Do you think occasional complete unbans would teach us anything new? Like, maybe the meta has changed over time.

Fun as fuck with Ancestral Recall and Time Walk.

>>52035469
>autoinclude
>...slot into every deck...

If there's no reason not to play it

Then there's no reason to play it

Ban it.

>>52039857
I mean bolt is in virtually every red deck. Have fun with those logical acrobatics senpai

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Why would they ban Snappy? He only sees play in shit decks that are trying to force the worst color in the format.

>>52039857
Snapcaster doesn't see play in decks like merfolk, or as more than a 1-2 of in blue decks that do not run bolt. He is spending 2 more mana and another card to cast a card in your grave.

He's a neg on card advantage most of the time, and it's hilarious to think of banning him.

No card needs banned in modern. In fact, the only change I want for modern is the unban of BBE and Jace, The Mind Sculptor.

>>52034148
Why would he need to be banned?

Like, when was the last time Delver decks actually did anything relevant since Cruise and Dig got banned?

>>52039106
>>52039199
Except that it was. The deck itself wasn't broken but it created an environment where every other deck that took longer than turn 4 to win was better off playing Twin.

Why play Valakut, Ad Nauseum, Abzan Company, etc if you always had a chance of getting a free win on turn 4.

>>52039957
>the only change I want for modern is the unban of BBE and Jace, The Mind Sculptor.

subtle, very subtle, jund friend

but for real. bbe into kologhans command or liliana is retarded. fuck no

>>52040459
But this is just false, pure control decks were alive for one precisely thanks to Twin's existence.

>>52040566
>pure control decks

you mean all the other splinter twin decks? grixis twin, temur twin, tempo twin, pure combo twin, whatever? calling splinter twin a control deck is like calling scapeshift a control deck as well. you dont actually control anything you just create an opening to win on the spot

>>52039957
Jace WILL happen. WoTC has been hinting at it alot, and with the inclusion of the Miracle cards in MM17, it's pretty obvious at this point. As for BBE, I highly doubt it, but maybe.

>>52040459
Lmaooo no. That's like saying Tarmogoyf is oppressive because "why play any other 2 drop?"

>>52040593
No I mean Sphinx's Rev for 15 UWR and Grixis, decks that had better card quality and advantage than Twin and cheap efficient answers to the combo and won the matchup almost every time accordingly.
>calling splinter twin a control deck is like calling scapeshift a control deck as well. you dont actually control anything you just create an opening to win on the spot
You control the flow of the game with permission and removal until you can land a finisher that happens to be an infinite combo, its function is no different from Colonnade beats when you have survived the early aggression and started generating card advantage.
Just stop posting and kys.

>twin was never oppressive
Oh yeah? Then why did Wizards ban it?

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>>52040480
I play legacy jund. Can confirm. BBE into, pulse, decay, Lili, kommand, or goyf is fucking SO MUCH pic related

>>52040625
Same reason why they banned Reflector Mage. Because they felt like it.

>>52040604
>That's like saying Tarmogoyf is oppressive because "why play any other 2 drop?"

no. goyf doesn't win on the spot

>Sphinx's Rev for 15 UWR and Grixis, decks that had better card quality and advantage than Twin and cheap efficient answers to the combo and won the matchup almost every time accordingly.

jeskai is always meta dependent and grixis has never been good

>You control the flow of the game with permission and removal until you can land a finisher that happens to be an infinite combo, its function is no different from Colonnade beats when you have survived the early aggression and started generating card advantage.

except thats not true because your opponent couldve tapped out to develop his board or not have an answer in hand without you doing shit to stop his strategy and draw twin t4 and win.

either way. splinter twin is banned and you fucks have to deal with it

>>52040623
>>52040653

>>52040653
>be wrong
>call the people in the right 'fucks'
>deal w/ it!
What a child lmao.

>>52040593
You are literally retarded

Control players BEST match up was Twin. It was basically a free win most of the time

I played Grixis Control for a long time and you should actually kill yourself because you know nothing about the format

>>52040653
>draw twin t4 and win.

This is how you tell someone is a mental midget

Twin didn't get most of it's wins turn 4 and only bad players think it did. I'm not even saying it was a fair deck but claiming it was OP because "muh turn 3 exarch and muh turn 4 twin wtf so broke???" just makes you look like a moron.

>>52040677
>Control players BEST match up was Twin

of course it was and you know why? because twin is a COMBO deck. control decks cannot win on the spot, thats why they are called control. they exhaust your resources while they create card advantage. twin had control elements in it but to call it a control deck or that it helped other control decks is bs. control is a fringe strategy in modern and its always been that way

>>52040710
when did I said twin was broken? twin as a deck was alright but it created a bullshit meta. where no one would play any other strategies. at least 10% of the meta played a variant of it. when it got banned modern became so much better.

UNBAN PREORDINATE YOU FUCKS

>>52034148
Literaly the poster child of "Card should be one color but they make it blue instead"

>>52040758
I think he works fine in red or blue, blue cares about retrieving instants and sorceries more than other colors, red cares about faux/temporary card advantage.

>>52040787
Except they literally said that it should of been red but they had to follow the rules and let the guy do what he wanted and he specifically made it blue to power up his blue decks.

why is obliterator $30? it doesnt even see play

>>52040726
>no one... other
>10%
>less than what affinity has had at its best
How do you remember to breathe?

>>52040886
blame the casuals. That one is all their fault.

>tfw enjoy brewing decks
>bring different janky combos to FNM regularely
>every single time I come to the realization that just replacing it with the Splinter Twin combo is better
>stop bringing brews because it's pointless

About half the meta at my LGS was Splinter Twin before the ban. I was really grateful for the ban. There was zero point in making a blue control/tempo deck that had a win condition other than splinter twin.

>>52040923
why it's not very good.

>>52040966
You know I could argue with you, but other people have already put a lot more time and effort into making the same exact arguments I'd be making. So I'm just going to let you read.
>http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/why-the-twin-ban-was-a-mistake/
>https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-real-reason-splinter-twin-got-banned
>http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34048_Is-It-Time-To-Unban-Splinter-Twin.html
>http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2016/01/the-splinter-twin-ban-in-modern-was-a-mistake-and-heres-why/

tl;dr Twin was sacrificed before the dias of the PT, and the arguments in favor of its banning are largely bullshit at the level of organized tournament play as supported by the numbers and the results we have to judge by.

>>52040806
this
>>52040787
how is gaining flashback for one turn not temporary card advantage?

>>52040886
One printing at mythic
Also, casualfags and edhfags

>>52040726
>at least 10% of the meta played a variant of it

That's not that large of a number. Nor did it consistently put up insane results either

>when it got banned modern became so much better.

Nothing changed really. The decks that were strong before are still strong. I hope you aren't one of those cucks that believe twin was holding back shit decks like Temur Delver lel.

>>52041099
Yeah, I can aknowledge that twin didn't deserve a ban.

It's just personal bias that makes me really happy about the change, as it allowed me to play around with various decks that wouldn't have been possible before in my meta.

Overall, I think Tron is far worse than twin ever was.

>>52041082
The art, its a black card, its a beat stick. Casuals dont need a lot to fall in love with a card and make it expensive for no reason.

>>52040966
>tfw enjoy brewing bad decks
>bring different bad combos to a competitive FNM ragoolaarelee
>every single time I come to the realization that just replacing it with the Splinter Twin combo is better
>stop bringing shit because it's pointless

Cool story amigo

Did you try any green midrange brews and come to the crazy conclusion that Goyf is kinda necessary or ooh ooh what about the blue spell deck and learned that Snappy is important or wait what about the story about the guy that just wanted to brew and play shocks and gut shots until he realized lightning bolt was better?

kys

>>52041179
Nice fucking projecting you got there.

>>52041207
Thanks for pointing out how I'm wrong

Good luck "brewing" faggot

>>52035469
>twin
>oppressive
kys, Maro

>>52041159
Part of the arguments advanced in most if not all of the articles calling the Twin ban as horseshit is that it's not Twin that makes a hostile metagame for other Blue-based decks, its bans on other cards and the presence of decks that are strong against Blue decks that don't run Twin.

A metagame is too complicated to pin one or two cards as the sole problem.

>>52040625
>WOTC are infallible
Kys, dude.

>>52041227
You're the one assuming that because I mentioned the word brew, it means I try to play shit-tier cards over format staples.

>>52040653
Whether you want to admit it or not, there was more non-blue Twin in the format when Twin was around as those decks preyed on Twin.

>>52041274
I'm stating because you came to the realization that Twin was one of the best combo decks in the format does not mean that's bad

As there is a lot of best X's in the format. Brewing a bunch of bad combo decks and then blaming Twin is several kinds of autistic

>>52040966
>there shouldn't be a tier one combo/control deck because it hurts my stupid brewing
Kys, hearthstone playing poorfag.

>>52041298
No, you're the guy throwing a fit because someone mentioned the word brew.

Said decks I wanted to play were trash against twin. So it goes without saying that twin getting banned made those decks strongers.

I never said Twin DESERVED a ban, I just said *I* was grateful for it because it let me play new things without losing to splinter twin.

>>52041317
>Said decks I wanted to play were trash against twin. So it goes without saying that twin getting banned made those decks strongers.

Do tell me one of these brews that are magically good because Twin is gone

>>52041323
Way better, although it was never the intention for them to be tier 1, it's just fun to try different things.

>>52041323
Hint for >>52041317

They're really not. All one deck getting taken out does is change your sideboard and the decks you can expect to lose to. I can guarantee no brew is good enough in any meta to win without turning into the same sort of sideboard crapshoot any T1 deck has to rely on, you'll just have an even harder time winning reliably with your main. Welcome to Modern I guess.

>>52041382
One of the few benefits of having fringe brews is your opponent not knowing what to board against you.

Although in many cases, the decks weaknesses are also the weaknesses of other tier 1 decks (Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Blood Moon) except they just lose even harder to those silver bullets.

But most of my salt regarding Splinter Twin is probably just due to how many people played it at my LGS. I'd gone multiple FNM's where I met 3/4 or 4/4 splinter twins.

>>52041436
>One of the few benefits of having fringe brews is your opponent not knowing what to board against you.
after losing the first game under 5 minutes because your gimmick deck is total shit? Yea, we go this.

>>52040625
>Oh yeah? Then why did Wizards ban it?
To make modern look good. To make the playerbase want to get in the format. It was a publicity/marketing thing. Not a balance thing. But jokes on them: they spawned eldrazi winter and then the linear aggro shit fest.

>>52039947
>snappy is negative card advantage
Yeahok.jpeg

>>52041465
>implying modern was not linear when twin was legal
>boohoo twin is everything!

cry more faggot

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>>52034148
No, but this guy should be UNbanned

>>52040806
I keep seeing this spouted by cry babies but no one has ever once provided a source

>>52041494
It doesn't draw you cards nignog. It's a value play but that's not explicitly the same thing as card advantage. I bet you think bounce island -> Daze is card advantage too.

>>52045865
this is getting unbanned soon. you read it here first


>>52045968
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/23680242486/did-you-ever-consider-making-snapcaster-mage-red

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/132186324573/youve-mentioned-that-snapcaster-mage-should-have
which cycle is he talking about? snapcaster, goyf, stoneforge and bob?

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/55108104075/maro-you-use-the-majority-wants-thisthinks

>>52046704
>Quoting MaRo
Nice try tg, you can't bitch at him for destroying the game and then turn around and his his posts to defend your retarded theory

>>52047062
>insult an anon because he doesnt believe a fact
>provide evidence straight from the head designer's page
>calls others retarded
>implying /tg/ is one entity and that I blame Maro for everything that I dislike about the game

ok

>tfw boys at my LGS buy my used panties
>tfw made enough from them to preorder a case of MM17
Can't wait to pull this bitch.

>>52047464
can't wait for you to pull the miracle cycle

>>52047464
can't wait for you to pull the trigger disgusting tranny

>>52048171
Entreat's gonna spike since JtMS is getting unbanned. Possibly Temporal Mastery too if JTMS gives Turns the boost it needs to be competitive.

>>52047464
EWW A GIRL, KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!

>>52048830
youre better off trying to pull off a Nahiri ultimate than trying to pull of Miracles shenanigans a la Legacy without all the top of the deck manipulation spells.

>>52048830
jace isn't getting unbanned blue cuck

>>52049136
Jace/Nahiri.dek? So literally the Jeskai equivalent of that Esper Superfriends deck that made top 32 at the most recent Modern GP?

>>52049311
I hope not. I don't have Jaces, Nahiris, or Cryptics, and they'd skyrocket in price if he got unbanned.

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>>52034148
I am sort of disappointed that we didn't get the Blackcaster mage art.

>>52049311
if I knew you Id bet a playsets of JTMS on it. they mess with the banlist regularly. obviously unbanning ancestral visions didnt help blue decks that much so they might try jace. besides, jtms wouldnt that broken because of how fast modern is. most decks would be close to winning by the time you get to cast him.

>>52041127
/edh/ here, At least people actually play our format :^)

>>52049696
I unironically like this art the best, and I sure hate nigs

>>52050052
EDH is honestly the most disgusting playerbase I have ever seen. Literally the fattest, sweatiest, ugliest, special snowflakes convene to play that shit. Easily the most autistic disgusting gay format.

>>52050778
>triggered

>>52049696
Tiago > Nigcaster mage > Elon Musk

>>52045865

Why the fuck is this still over $50 after having 2 reprints?

Speculators hoarding just hoping for an unban? If that's the case I hope they NEVER EVER unban him.

>>52048830
Lmaooo Miracles wouldn't be good without Top. All Jace would do in Modern is move Jeskai Nahiri from tier 2 up to mid-low tier 1, and would change the deck into something similar to the Esper Transcendent deck (but way stronger of course). Even so, the deck would still get shat on by turn 2-3 kill decks.

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>>52041099

Never really looked into getting into Modern until recently: how many cards could combo off of Splinter Twin? I know about the Exarch combo but else was there?

It kinda sounds like the main reasoning for banning Splinter was that it had the potential to just end games as soon as they hit the field and Wizards felt it was anti-climatic for high level play? Stupid reason to ban it but I guess if they wanted to push Magic as a more exciting to spectate game... it kinda makes sense from that business standpoint.

>>52051232
For the same reason force of will is over 50$

>>52041082
Fuck outta here it's not very good. It's held back by the cost and that's it.

>>52051394
No it's because almost a fifth of the competitive meta was splinter twin decks.

>>52051595
>Never eclipsed 10%
>A fifth

Well we know why youre no good at competitive magic

>>52051758
It was 18% at the time of the banning. Where are you getting your 10% information?

>>52051783
Bullshit. It was never more than 12-13%. At the time of the banning, it was 8.

>>52051848
Yeah what's your source for that? I remember it being 18% at the time of the banning.

>>52051595
>>52051783
Why are you lying on the internet?

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>>52051872
Here this is from november 2015, a couple months before the banning. http://modernnexus.com/modern-metagame-breakdown-111-1130/
It says 11.8% and that only accounts for UR twin, not including temur or grixis or what have you.

>>52051866
"Yes, according to the MTGGoldfish database, UR Twin is the single most played deck in Modern at 9.04% of the field"
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-real-reason-splinter-twin-got-banned

Before you bring up that the figure is for the online meta, the overall meta-share should be ver close to that, something like 8-10%.

>>52051932
>grixis, rug twin
Those decks saw very little competitive play. Overall, I really doubt that more than 13% of the meta was a flavor of Twin.

>>52051998
*was flavors of Twin

>>52034148
Chancaster Mage is fine

MM3 > ISD > PRM

I like using cards with the worst artworks though. Makes them grow on me

>>52040966
>he didn't brew a mardu control deck
>he will never know the feeling of rakdos charming a twin player for 1mil
wew lad

>>52051232
It's a staple in every format it's legal in

>>52050778

its the yugioh of magic though i find it weird if someone has more than 1 or 2 edh decks those guys are like perverts

>>52053368
It's ok you can do it to copycat now

>>52040593
>doesn't know about based Mono-U tron

pls kys

>>52040714
>twin forced a meta where you'd be better off playing twin
>OF COURSE CONTROL BEATS TWIN

>>52041436
>he actually believes this

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>>52050778
>EDH

I refuse to acknowledge the existence of a format where Upheaval is apparently too powerful, yet this wretched abomination of a card is apparently just fine.

>>52055313
Not to mention, the "Professor Oak" spells (Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, and Windfall) are somehow not banworthy either.

>>52055313
It's a format where players feel they are above playing one-for-one spells. So even though it would be completely reasonable to play disruption: one-for-one countermagic, removal like Swords, or Naturalize/Vindicate effects, it's just poor value so nobody plays it.

I feel like it's the faggiest format on the planet. People who play it complain about broken shit but the vast majority won't play cards like Counterspell, Path to Exile, or Surgical Extraction or Relic of Progenitus because it's "not enough value". They'd rather lose to a niche strategy and complain than play universal hate.

>>52055616
>surgical
In edh

Unban Stoneforge Mystic
Ban Batterskull

>>52055738
Yeah I put that shit in my dragonlord kolaghan deck, it's dope with pyromancer's ascension.

>>52049696
This card art screams Snapcaster should be red.

>>52055738
You'll want free answers when your opponent tries to reanimate Iona on black.

>>52055234
>copycat
explain?

>>52055616

The high power level meta of EDH is the worst format of Magic bar none. It's a Singleton Legacy with a very small banlist. It just begs for stupid degeneracy.

The best way I've found to play EDH is to get a group to agree to build a collection of deck archetypes together and then at game time everyone gets a deck randomly.

>>52060045
The saheeli/felidar guardian decks are called copycat decks. They make an infinite ((arbitrarily large)) number of hasty cat creatures and swing in FTW. Rakdos charming them will usually kill them.

>>52055921
Still one of the dumbest statements.

>>52055979
Oh shut up.

>>52046704
Not once does he say it should have been red in either post.

>>52034148
I play in a "Restricted' modern list at my LGS where all banned cards are allowed 1 of in a deck.

Fuck dude. Modern is way more fun WITH the big toys.

But in answer to your question, yes Snaps does often compare to the others in the ban list by virtue of being so dam versatile.

>>52055979

It's a reference to the fact that snapcaster mage was originally going to be red.

>>52061263
It's actually a reference to the most commonly snapped card.

>>52055921
Why not just unban SFM?
I don't think that a 4/4 vigilant lifelink with a weird 5 mana regenerate is too strong for the format, even if it's on turn 3.

She's best in vial or control decks, anyway, and I think that those strategies could really use a shot in the arm in modern.

>>52054628
Sure, but he's not generally more of a 2 of in legacy. EDH is edh, and I have no idea about vintage.

>>52055738

Someday someone with a relentless rats deck will sit down at your table and try to have fun.

and on that day you must be ready

>>52061578
Lelel

>>52061326
Kolaghan's Command pretty handily wrecks stoneforge + batterskull

>>52034758
>Grixis
>splashing black
for what reason?

>>52061929
Fatal push
gurmag Angler and tasigur
Often Liliana as a one of

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>>52040459
So what you're saying is jund was bad during the twin era? The fuck are four of these bro?