>Tacticool elves fight the orcish horde as part of the elven

If you don't know the answer then you probably not the best person to run this kind of game, don't you think?

But back to the point, it would be something less about what type of enemy they would be fighting, and more about what is their mission. And the means to accomplish it.

>Ambush an enemy caravan/supply train and destroy it before a relief force can reach it and secure it.

>Ambush an enemy loot train without leaving a trail, disappear with the loot (dump wagons in a swamp? Fight a cave to hide it?) so cause orcs to accuse each other of stealing the loot and create infighting in their force.

>Assassinate a major warlord in the moment he'd be vulnerable during an orc traditional hunt.

>Watch a passage to ensure no orc scouts who saw it can return and inform the army of it's existance.

>Stay on track but avoid engaging a splinter force of the orc army who was raiding towns, see if they lead you to a secret orc hideout.

>Capture orc prisioners for interrogation / Free captured elves.

>>52033015
>Taticool Dwarves fight the orchish horde as part of the dwarven army
I'd probably run this instead.

>>52033102
>If you don't know the answer then you probably not the best person to run this kind of game, don't you think?
This. There are hundreds of mission you could assign the party.

Lots of assassinations of key figures of the orcish army.

>>52033015
low numbers of enemies, this isn't about engaging an army but rather a guerrilla squad operating to harass and weaken the larger force through careful choices and planning
>>52033141
the only tacticool thing about dwarves is that one of them attached a scope to his throwing axe

>>52033169
>tunnel warfare
>actual guns
>explosives
A lot closer to tacticool then an elf inna woods.

>>52033015
>"you encounter X number of orcs" combats
That's not tacticool, that's what the infantry's for.

All of these ideas are good >>52033102

What I would do is style it after modern (WW2 onwards) combat, with magic and magical items filling in the role of technology and allowing the squad to function independently of the larger force (which fights in a traditional period-appropriate manner). So any situation a squad of irl soldiers might find themselves in could be used as inspiration for the campaign.

>>52033221
>inna woods
>not the tacticoolest
Just keep playing in that sandbox.

>>52033221
tacticool isn't about tech, its about approach. spears are more tacticool than guns if the wielder is doing it correct and the gunner isnt - dwarves fight sieges and have their keeps, elves have their forests and rangers - utilizing guerrilla warfare to prevent an invasion to begin with

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>>52033015
>More specifically, what would the encounters/missions be like?
You have to build a specific war with specific reason behind it. Then give the players a specific mission within a specific operation to accomplish.
From there you can make sensible encounters on the way to the objective/guarding the objective based on real setting information.
How tacticool do you mean? If modern tacticool, look at what modern spec-ops dudes do.
Fantasy-modern orc slaughter with loads of flying lead sounds pretty fun desu.

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Playing Tacticool Humans fighting Drows in a magical forest.

It basically turned into Vietnam 2.0: Medieval Boogaloo

>>52033015
Make a full map, with grid. List out entire TO&E for both sides. Run it as a wargame against myself with the players being one of the units. They get intel based on other actions, equipment based on materials on hand, and reinforcements based on what is available. Their commander fucks up and send them too deep for intel? They better fucking run.

War is over when one side withdraws or both sides cease violent action for a prolonged period.

>>52033651
>Trying to be tacticool sneaky breeki in metal armor
I get the idea, and it does look nice, but autism demands it be rejected as too silly.

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>>52033015

The intro: the elvish army was just smashed at the Battle of Two Rivers. The reeling elves have retreated to their forest stronghold, leaving dozens of unprotected settlements in their wake.

The players are members of an elite squad of elvish warriors. Let them name it. Rather than retreat with the army, they are tasked with fighting a desperate guerilla war to slow down the Orcish advance, giving the elves time to regroup and the innocent elf maidens time to flee to safety.

Then run the game like XCOM 2 but with greenies.

>>52033771

>Then run the game like XCOM 2 but with greenies.

Dark Events --> a table titled "Orcs on the Move"

Avatar Project --> some sort of orcish superweapon?

Maybe even give the party an airship so they can jet around the map, if you aren't worried about being subtle. Or an underground base with an artifact that can open [Gates].

>>52033859
You don't really need a specific Avatar Project duplicate. Just have a basic map of how dense orcish occupation is in different areas, if it reaches maximum density adjacent to the stronghold, you get one chance to push them back out or it's a loss.

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>>52033754
Actually somewhat doable. I was at a LARP once and me and some mates snug into a forward ambush position in chainmail. Enemy got completely smashed between us and the main force.

>>52033859
Best bet for 'avatar project' is the orc advance in and on itself. How much ground they gain. You can seldomly push it back but you can slow it down.

>>52033896

You don't need one, but I think it would make for a good plot twist. You start out sabotaging them thinking they are making this unstoppable march on the elvish capital, and then the horde suddenly makes a right turn and starts sacrificing maidens to summon the Orc God or whatever.

>>52033015
Make the Orcs actually be a threat. The elves are badass but heavily outnumbered, they perform guerrilla actions to slow, hinder, and bleed the Orcs to slow their approach on the homeland. They can't win a straight up fight though, and each engagement is a race against time as the number of orcs in the combat zone increases exponentially

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>innaOrkanistan
>stumble upon this orcish little shit and his family while moving through the woods
>good chance he'll probably tell his village and the horde that you're there
wat do?

>>52033015
Special forces style raids.
>Assassinate Orc warlord
>Destroy this bridge so Orcs can't supply their army
>Watch this destroyed bridge and massacre the Orcs who try to rebuild it
>Attack the Orcs' baggage train
>Free the Elf captives

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>>52034081

>>52033754
You have obviously never worn armor and are just talking out your ass. Modern tactical gear makes almost as much noise as a good set of leather armor. And Roman banded has leather backing and reinforcements around the joints. Thereby allowing the Legionary armorer to replace the leather parts without having to bang away at metal joints.

Get your shitty brain to the next level if you are going to claim autism. Cause right now, you just look like a retard.

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>>52033221
Traditional fantasy dwarves don't have guns, fool.

And even when they do, they prefer sitting down in a line and going all first-rank-fire-second-rank-fire rather than doing pic related.

>train local kobolds to fight the orcs for you

>help local human population as part of "hearts and minds" campaign to prevent them from joining orc menace

>recruit local treemen forces (may require destroying local hobgoblin lumber industry)

>infiltrate goblin tunnels used to support orc operations
>map tunnels
>destroy tunnel entrances after flooding them with water, fire, or cloudkill

>deploy traps along known orc patrol routes
>maximize wounded to reduce morale and overlord orc medivac system

>strategically cast ghost sound around orc camp
>broadcast the sounds of lost orc souls trapped forever in limbo because they dared fight in the elven woods

>refoliate areas orcs defoliated to reduce orc safe zones

>mark strategic targets for dragon airstrikes

>locate and retrieve lost unit from behind enemy lines

>provoke local wildlife into attacking orcs

Just read all the crazy shit the US special forces did in Vietnam and you should have a bunch of ideas to work with. Yes they actually did broadcast the sounds of the damned (Operation Wandering Soul https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9H_1ygEv8). Do not fuck with US PsyOps.

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>>52033015
How tacticool are we talking here?

>>52033917
>>52034297
I stand corrected. You know what they say about assumptions, they make an ass out of u and mptuions.

>>52033015

> Infiltrate a neutral kingdom and assassinate their leader. Leave proof that the orcs did it

> Sneak into a dragon's den and steal its horde; allow orcs to 'find' this stolen treasure

> Go into [insert poisonous dungeon] to obtain a biological weapon to use against the orcs

> An orcish merchant ally is operating in a nearby human city. Kidnapping him is just the beginning; you have to outrun or kill the adventurers sent to rescue him

> A dwarven warpriest is held a prisoner in a duergar jail. Break him out and he'll be a powerful ally against the orcs.

> The hobgoblin kingdom appears friendly to the orc's cause. Several massive war engines are being distributed to the orc frontlines. Make sure they don't get there.

There, 6 quest ideas that don't involve waves of orcs

>>52034349
>elves fighting a bushwar with FALs
I had no clue I wanted this so bad

>>52033488
This. Elves are innawoods tacticool as shit. Cloaks of Elvenkind are magic ghille suits, Boots of Elvenkind are stealth gear.

>>52034763
The elves are Rhodesia, the Orcs are the rebels, led by the warlord MugOrcy

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Magitek ninja elves infiltrate an orcish fortress and have an anime fight with a gigantic mechanical monstrosity held together with WAAAGH

>>52033582
The world desperately needs more Budweiser Operators.

>a young orc lad yells something out in Orcish, throws down his weapons, holds his hands high above his head and slowly walks towards you
>he has tears streaming down his face as he kneels down before you, his uniform muddy and torn
>you can't take prisoners
Do you execute the boy or leave him there?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Assistance_Command,_Vietnam_%E2%80%93_Studies_and_Observations_Group

Some reading for you OP.

An example could be
>A neighboring, technically neutral human nation is suspected of turning a blind eye to Orc war bands moving through their territory.
>Due to countermagics scrying cannot be used.
>The team will be inserted into the neutral nation and attempt to find the Orc trails, staging areas and/or supply dumps.
>If captured, your existence will be denied.
>You will be in close proximity to an unknown number of Orc soldiers.
>Due to ranges involved, extraction will be one hour+. Avoid hard contact at all costs. Good luck.

>>52037972
He gets dispatched as quickly and quietly as I can manage and his body disappeared. We then get as far away as we can as quickly as we can, without compromising our stealth, before it is missed and the others come looking.

>>52038671
>extraction will be one hour+
>not just bringing a scroll of teleportation or something similar to take you to a nearby kingdom
Magic let's you be your own extraction team.

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>>52033771
That Miia is really cute.
I, for one, welcome our new snek overlords.

>>52034081
if its green it dies

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>>52038820
alas, supplies are short and our magick users are doing what they can, sending you into enemy territory with a scroll that'll lead the enemy back here if you're captured is last on our todo list
what we CAN do is conjure up a remote portal for you for extraction, just mark the extraction point with this ancient rune and we'll get a portal up for you within fifteen minutes. DO NOT let the orcs through. if you can't find a safe place then you're on your own.

>>52039670
Scroll of teleportation would still be better as it doesn't require a free mage, is instantaneous, and you can set the exit point to a fortified location allowing you to easily capture or kill any enemies that might have gotten their hands on the scroll.

>>52039934
doesn't mean it makes a better mission

>Elves fight the orcish horde
Yeah, and then they all get raped.

>>52040057
You can get the same results by having a casting time or range to the scroll.

>>52040132
i think its a different feeling
>big elvish military bureaucracy
>no idea when the portals actually coming or if its even coming at all
>meanwhile theres orc searching on all sides of you and you're sure they're closing in
>nothing to do but keep alert and wait

bonus points if theres another team trying to take control of an obelisk so they can even cast the portal spell, and you are uncertain if they succeeded

Thanks OP

Now I have to jack off at tacticool elves failing at stealth and having to service the whole orcish army with their bodies.

>>52040187
>he jacks off to angel corps
Shit taste desu

>>52040233
Please just don't give him (You)'s.

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>>52033859
Like Spellcross?

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>>52040187
>Fucking the enemy
>Not instantly killing them to minimalize any risks of information leaking out
If you really want to fuck, you can loot their corpses and use that to pay prostitutes. Or you rape civillian prisoners of war, or high profile targets like diplomats, public officials or nobles. Tacticools are the last people you want to fuck. For all they know they've been trained to squirt noxious gasses out of their vaginas to knock you out and make a safe escape.

>>52034338
>recruit treemen forces

I read that as Fremen and now I get this image of a walking treeman talking about how they seek to share each others' sap as part of their alliance compact.

>>52035026
>Damn it, Raidelf, the orcs bought those maidens fair and square, it's legal!
>BEING LEGAL DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT

HAVE YOU EVER SLASHED A SOUL TO RIBBOOOOONS

>>52041192
Rules of Nature takes on a whole different meaning when it's about an elf... Or maybe the meaning is just more intense?

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>>52033015
>muh tacticool knifeears
>muh tacticool dorfs
>muh tacticool humies
Anons, please.
We all know that the most tacticool of them all are gobbos.
Gobbos are the only race that specifically has to rely on traps and ambushes simply to survive.

>>52041360
Mithril 6: Siege, anyone?

>>52038820
Sorry, using a teleport spell would leave a magical resonance behind, one that can be easily traced back to us. Let me repeat myself, there must be nothing that can point back to us. You will be flown in, and you will be flown out.

>>52041360
What are KOBOLDS then anon.

>>52042564
Dragons' slaves?

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>>52041360
No, that's kobolds. Goblins don't have a survival strategy, they just breed enough for their numbers to be stable (in the long term) regardless.

On an unrelated note, why is it that /tg/ can't stop wanking over the thought of war crimes and genocide lately? It's like a grimderp version of waifufags.

>>52042582
> lately
It's not murder if it's an elf.jpg

>>52042582
>why is it that /tg/ can't stop wanking over the thought of war crimes and genocide lately?
Some vocal minority has a couple of very bad days.

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>>52034349
>>52034331

Elves with guns are a very awesome thing but so damn rare in fiction. It's a pity.

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>elves
>being anything other than the fuddiest of fudds
Elves are the types of "people" that wear ghillie suits made from plants that only grow in a specific stand of trees, make their own guns and ammo because they don't trust anything mass-produced, and sneer at telescopic sights because Real Rangers use iron sights and their eyes.

>>52042678
I'm not /k/ enough to know if you actually trying to make this sound uncool.

>>52042678
>that "Frankly" on Ian tier
lost my sides in space

>>52042710
Depends on how you feel about fudds. They're at least competent shots, but they're specialized and stubborn, just like elves.

Goblins are definitely Dindus and orcs are definitely Removers. Gnomes are probably Collectors (although they have size limits), while other races can fit any of the stereotypes. Except Operators. Operators are a race unto themselves.

>>52042823
Wait, elves don't strike me as fudds at all.

>>52042678

I have no clue what the layers are supposed to represent there with the iceburg image. It seems vaguely like 'Knows about guns/smart' but Remover is full of shit that seems likely to wreck yourself with/are kinda pointless' and Fudd likely knows a lot about his preferred guns. Most hunters I know are good with said rifles/pretty good with gun safety.

Can you explain for people who are not very much /k/?

>>52042710
In /tg/ terms they're a M:tG Legacy player who shits on Modern players.

>>52042823
Depends on the setting. Elder Scrolls Orcs are very much fudds while Warcraft Goblins are that guy who lost a leg blowing up a car with tannerite.

>>52042844
>>52042823
They're the guys with Gucci AR builds.

>>52042845
Not him, but the top tiers likely represent someone who doesn't know shit about guns and doesn't use them, while the lower tiers represent people who know about guns AND actually use them.
Removers knows all about guns from the practical side, and actively uses them to remove kebab despite lacking resources.

>>52043008

Right. Fudd and Removers feel a bit odd there in that case. Since Fudds know a lot about hunting weapons while most of the Remover stuff is 'Those seem like terrible choices for weapons'

>>52042564
>>52042582

Kobolds are goblins.

>>52043018
Basically, Fudd only uses his guns for hunting and doesn't know how to actually behave in a firefight with people. Meaning, he might have some knowledge about guns, but none of it is actually practical.
He shoots in "perfect" conditions that are never achieved in an actual firefight or battlefield.

>>52043018
It's a joke image from /k/, don't read too much into it. A fudd is someone with a nigh exclusive preference for certain types of older firearms who actively denigrates others for not sharing his tastes. Basically a retro snob.

>>52042823
>>52042678
>Stubborn elves

The haughty and stoic kind of elf is shit. A dwarf is stubborn, an elf will try new things all the time, rarely mastering anything.

>>52043018
Also,
>most of the Remover stuff is 'Those seem like terrible choices for weapons'
Remover is basically the guy who knows the basics of gun operation and is capable of producing his own weapons, unlike a lot of other people.

>>52042823
Which reminds me, Ops & Tactics' Field Identification Guide (bestiary) has some fantasy gun users.

>Dragonbreed: Huge, expensive sniper rifles, rocket launchers, and the occasional submachine gun. Can't use anything smaller than Medium weapons (generally submachine guns and carbines) due to their claws.
>Dwarves: Shotguns, battle rifles, and moderately high-powered pistols. Refuse to use anything smaller than full-size rifle and pistol cartridges.
>Elves: Lightweight machine pistols and handguns, usually chambered in 9x19mm (2d6 damage). Take attack penalties when using anything larger than Medium weapons (generally submachine guns and carbines).
>Goblins: Lightweight, cheap crap.
>Kobolds: Surprisingly operator-tier, generally western European stuff.
>Orcs: Large caliber rifles and high-caliber pistols (nothing smaller than .357 Magnum).
>Sslythen snakemen: Always Russian, all the time.

>>52043071

Right. I was reading it mostly as 'Hunters'. That and Removers as well...serial killers/spree shooters. What with all the homemade shit/warcrime weapons.

>>52043095

...wait...elves can't use large guns? Wouldn't that also give them a penalty when trying to actually use a longbow?

>>52043127
They have an exception for bows and slings. High Elves don't even have that; all things considered, they kind of suck in combat.
>Forest Elves can not use Colossal or Gigantic sized weapons, can not use Huge weapons unless prone or kneeling, take a −2 penalty when using all Large sized weapon sand take a −1 penalty when using all Medium sized weapons, unless it is a bow, crossbow, or slingshot.
Of course, this is all in a splatbook. Core Ops & Tactics is humans only.

>>52043198

Right. Still feels like a bit of a pointless thing, when 'Longbow' would easily translate to 'Large rifle' if they wanted to keep a similar feel/theme to normal elves.

>>52043198

Kinda entertaining that basically every elf with gun art in the thread is something they'd have issue with in ops and tactics.

>>52042616
>>52034349
>>52034331

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>>52033141
>>52033169
>mfw they think Dawi can't operate

>>52042322
>using a teleport spell would leave a magical resonance behind
Then we'll teleport to another neutral kingdom where the flyboys will be waiting and purchase the scroll from a wizard in that or another neutral kingdom.

>>52043226
I suspect the devs don't like elves that much. On the plus side, Desert Elves get an exception for black powder weapons and get Black Powder Proficiency at 1st level for free.
>>52043278
Dwarves are actually better operators than elves, all things considered. They don't have weapon size restrictions, and cave dwarves have natural low-light vision, so they aren't as dependent on night-vision gear. The main disadvantage is they don't have as many combat points, so they can't take as many actions per turn. Cave dwarves also have light sensitivity, but they can handle that with dark sunglasses.

All things considered, I think the devs tried to balance the fantasy supplement with itself but not with the core book.

>>52042678
>I'm British
>I'm unusual in our society in that I've actually fired a rifle
>This was 16 years ago and I was a cadet

I have no idea what any of this image means

>>52043362
>I suspect the devs don't like elves that much.

Wasn't Ops and Tactics a /tg/ invention? If so, I'm not remotely surprised. How would wood elves be without such a restriction on weapons? Too good or just decent?

>>52043103
Removers is a reference to a meme about the Yugoslav Wars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocW3fBqPQkU

The accordion player was investigated for war crimes.

>>52043421
Judge for yourself.
>Forest Elves are Medium Sized Creatures. >Forest Elves have a Mental Limit equal to ((6+WIS Mod)×CL) + 15.
>Forest Elves receive the extra feat Archaic Weapon Proficiency(Bows) at 1st level for free. >Forest Elves can not use Colossal or Gigantic sized weapons, can not use Huge weapons unless prone or kneeling, take a −2 penalty when using all Large sized weapon sand take a −1 penalty when using all Medium sized weapons, unless it is a bow, crossbow, or slingshot.
>Forest Elves possess Low Light Vision, allowing them to see twice as far as normal in poor lightning conditions, as well as distinguish colors, even in dim lighting.
>Forest Elves receive the extra feat Athlete at 1st level for free.
>Forest Elves have a base Combat Point Score of 17.
>Forest Elven CHP formula is CON−1.
>Forest Elves have Sidhe as their native language, and receive Trade Bant as a secondary language.
Maybe I'll futz around and make an elf-friendly rifle.

>>52043445

Or just let them trade out that Archaic weapon prof for not caring about weapon sizes. As bows are kinda pointless as a weapon in a modern game.

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>>52043445
>Trade Bant
>"Oi, wanka! U mirin' my stash? U be'ah not touch me wares or I'll knock ye on the fookin' gabber, I swer on me mums lyfe m8. Nah, u know I'm takin' the piss, wa'cha buyin'?"

>>52043445
Why are they even in the game, then? Just for them to be shit? Would I be completely fucked if I just want to play a tacticool elf?

>>52043468
>>52043511
Like I said, the fantasy splatbook is balanced for itself, not the core book. I'd probably add a folding stock, a bipod, and a scope to a carbine like the Colt 6920 (civilian) or Colt M4 (military). They can take optics and have 4 tactical rails, and a folding stock reduces the weapon size to Medium when folded. Plus a -1 penalty is peanuts compared to the 5.56x45mm NATO assault rifle's -5 recoil mod, and feats can compensate for those penalties.

>>52043620
If 5.56 NATO has a -5 recoil mod, what do some other cartridges have for recoil mods?

>>52033015
>this threads been up for two days or more
>topic is elves fighting orcs
>op pic like that
>almost zero comments on elf rape
I'm proud of /tg/ this weekend

>>52033651
Running this right now for my group except wood elves instead of drow.
Gnomish gyrocopters. Little kids suicode bombing. Hordes of sucidial mooks. Reciving material aid from the chiniese high elves and russian dwarves. Theyre even headed up the river apacolypse now style, with a encounter on the way to capture the city of !not!huey.
Shits cash.

>>52043657
>.38 Special: -1, 2d4+1 damage
>9x19mm Parabellum: -2, 2d6 damage
>.45 ACP: -4, 3d4+2 damage
>5.45x39mm (current Russian intermediate cartidge): -4, 4d4 damage
>12-gauge shotshell: -6, 5d6 damage
>7.62x51mm NATO (current NATO battle rifle cartridge) -6, 5d6 damage

To compensate, Weapon Focus adds a +3 bonus, Favored Caliber adds a +1 with a specific caliber, etc. It really encourages to specialize at higher levels.

>>52033015
Look up Wraith Recon books.

>>52043739
That's retarded.

>>52033754
matte natural tone paints, cloth where metal plates join. A set of plate can be made sneakier than an IOTV with plates, mags, tent, HMMV, and Two Star General attached.
Chainmail- matte paint and not moving like an ADHD cackhead.

>>52033015
I've run a lot of Deathwatch in my day which demands tacticool.

>make it super lethal
If it's not super lethal players have no reason to utilize tactics outside of "I hit it until it's dead."

>Make each mission it's own little story
Each mission should be like a Rainbow 6 mission expanded a bunch. Give them room to play but narrow their focus so that it's not all combat.

>Ratchet up the tension
Leverage the lethality and a ticking clock to make the players sweat. I had a whole session of door-kicking and clearing play out after the players rolled for initiative. The turn to turn decisions got super tense when players were trying to keep pace but couldn't cover all their LoF.

>>52034297
Roman banded armor is a hell of a lot harder to maintain, however, and in some environments the leather parts will literally fall apart in weeks or days. More importantly it was never absolute standard issue except in Dacia, because while easy to make, it requires a huge mobilization of skilled smiths, so the actual legions prefered to use Scale or Mail (borrowed from the Gauls).

In said environments they were usually fighting people whose main armor type was chain with a light cloth backing anyway.

Segmentata is also inflexible as all fuck.

>>52033015
>Tacticool elves fight as part of an elven army

wow really fired up my neurons

>>52039670
PEQUOD HERE, ARRIVING SHORTLY AT PORTAL ZONE

>>52033582

Exactly right. An RPG campaign is a story. So work out how the war would go without the players' heroic intervention. Then find some critical points where the players can turn the tide and there are their missions.

If you're asking how elves fight orcs, as in, in-setting, that's another story. IMO the three T's of elven warfare are terrain, tactics, and Tolkien.

Terrain: elves fight in the forest. Orcs trying to raid them have to enter the forest. So the elven strategy is to use the forest for defensive benefits while protecting their physical integrity.

Tactics: elves have small elite armies. Orcs have large mutinous hordes loosely controlled by charismatic leaders. So the elven strategy should be to take advantage of that: assassinate the leaders, getting orcs to break off from the main force chasing shadows, and otherwise breaking them up into smaller groups that can be defeated in detail. Archery really works well here, for ambushes. Lots of tacticool operatingly operator stories.

You'd need to counter orc efforts to chop/burn down a path through the forest. Archery helps. I'd also find a few species of tree that grow quickly and are resistant to fire (a few species are). Some might have invasive root systems to interfere with construction of buildings by invaders.

Tolkien: (I'll add that next post)

>>52045764

OK so most of Tolkien is above... But one thing that people miss is how elves use their havens.

Elves build big beautiful refuges for their civilians. Some examples: the caves of Nargothrond, Thranduil's palace, and of course Rivendell. Not all elves operate this way, but many do.

Anyway, these are refuges for the entire population in times of crisis. An orc army marching into the forest will try to burn and chop a path through while keeping the entire horde in a tight body with the leaders at the center. The elves will try to lure bands away from the main force, shoot the ones chopping down the trees in ambush, and stage daring raids to kill leaders. Orcs will hunt civilians but mostly won't find any; they're all in the refuges.

In many ways, the elves are fighting the orcs, but the orcs are fighting the forest.

>>52042582
Because Kek-Worshipers are warping every board and /tg/'s mutation is the abundance of "human-only settings" and "genocide is okay, right?" threads.

>>52046015
>OK so most of Tolkien is above
No. Tolkiens elves practiced open warfare, clad in good steel whenever they could. It was when they were on the back foot that they used gorilla warfare. And Sindarin elves.

Fuck, I wanted to make campaign in War of Roses/Fall of Roman Empire with Celtic Elves (with some Weird Science twist) and possible fights with Pict/Anglo-Saxon Orcs in ACKS for a long, long time now.

And now this thread. Shieet...

>>52043095
>Goblins: Lightweight, cheap crap.
>tfw you'll never get to DM a swarm of AK wielding goblins charging the PC's hill.

>>52046294
I used to run a Fantasy Gothic Earth variant with D&D races, slightly modified GE classes, and themed around a timewarped version of the fall of Rome/arthurian legends set in WW1. You can totally mash shit up.

>>52046746

Oh wow, that's hell of a mix. How did it go?

>>52046439
Vietcong goblins, anyone?

Come to that, which fantasy race would be most likely to be the first big group to embrace communism?

>>52046763
The players liked the setting and we managed to get a bunch of adventures through, but the group split up after a few months.

Giving the 2e elven bonus to bows to rifles (and keeping their sword bonus) and the halfling bonus to slings to pistols ended up being fantastically OP, to a point where I pretty much made up racial bonuses for humans on the fly.

Also they weren't super fond of some of the rules and sometimes wondered why I wasn't just using regular AD&D classes (or, worse, switch to 3.0 since it was out at the time the game started), since in a lot of ways the ones they had were somewhat weaker.

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>>52033015
Killing orcs only gets boring if you're playing a system that's suppose to scale by level past orcs. Just don't do it in any of the D&Ds.

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Decide what kind of tacticool you want.

>Special Forces/MARSOC style elves going in and working to undermine the Orcish backlines by training opponents of the orcs and leading them on raids and conducting unconventional warfare as part of their mission
>Rangers/SEAL style elves going in and taking out specific military targets then exfiltrating quickly
>Delta/DEVGRU style elvish commandos going on deep black ops to hit individual orcs far behind enemy lines and get out
>Special Tactics style elves going in and establishing covert air fields and integrating aerial support, infiltration, and exfiltration as team members of all of the above

If you're trying to figure out what to do with a tacticool campaign you have to look into what SOF actually does. Not all operators are created equal, and not all styles are going to fit you or your campaign.

>>52047166
(To explain; one player rolled, iirc, either an elven charlatan or a metaphysician, either way a 2e mage with all casting times multiplied by 10 and no limit on what weapons they can learn; with dex and racial bonus, the end-result was a complete monster with a rifle)

>>52046294
>I'mplying the elves wouldn't be the eastern roman empire in the aftermath of the fall of the west

>>52047412
>implying they would be
The romans are more fittingly orcs, and wood elves as done by tolkien were explicitly 100% welsh.

>>52047351
>Elvish combat weathermen actually control the weather

>the orc chief is offering his army an entire distillery of dwarven whisky to boost morale
>ensure the horde don't get to touch a drop

>>52033488
>elves have their forests and rangers
Just chiming in, dwarves have tacticool rangers too. Anyone who forgets about bugman's band of crossbow-slinging, axe-throwing, goblin hunting rangers ain't no friend of mine.

They're why blizzard has dwarf huntsmen and rangers in warcraft.

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>Da knifies....dey jus came outta da trees
>Gorr shot fulla arrows da second he peeked outta the foxhole
>Shadow knifies comin' in, killin' all da lads out of dey holes in da night
>Couldn't see 'em commin, even wif nightvision
>even wif torches
>Took a solid look at me, one of 'em did, just kept walkin'
>Dey knew me wuz a coward.
>Dey let me live so I could say what happened, tell all da boys back at camp what happens to da loggin' parties
>Warchief sendin' me out again tommorow
>No one sees da knifies twice....

>>52043252
Well, the Iosans there are basically a light artillery team. That gun is for shooting out the synthetic brains of big hulking robots from a couple of clicks away.

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>>52033015
you use this

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>>52033015
>>52050371
...and/or this

>>52047521

>Dwarves refuse to leave the distillery or dump the goods

>Leave no witnesses

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>>52033015
>>52050371
>>52050395
then you add this to the mix

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>>52033015
>>52050371
>>52050395
>>52050439
and then for safer places you can utilize this. that's all if you don't care about URBAN areas, that is.

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>he thinks dwarves can't be tacticool

Silly elf.

>>52046138

You're mixed up. Only the Noldor fought set piece battles, and never managed to win one. At best they fought to a draw and besieged Angband.

The elves of Doriath occasionally participated in a large battle (those are your Sindar). The elves of Gondolin fought in one battle (the Nirnaeth Anoeriad) and that was set piece. The Noldor of Nargothrond fought via guerilla tactics as I described. The House of Feanor fought via set piece, including possibly those under Celebrimbor at Eregion. The mixed group at Lothlorien fought via guerilla tactics, as did Gil Galad's remnants at Rivendell.

Everyone else were avari like Thranduil. Though they were willing to fight via conventional armies as at the Battle of Five Armies they mostly fought as I have described.

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>>52033015
Like north vietnamese soldiers

>>52047351

Primo post, anon! Many thanks.

My own preference is for a green beret style game. It gives an excuse for such elves to be deployed in human kingdoms, helping train great human heroes to fight the elf kingdom's enemies.

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>>52047000
>Vietcong goblins, anyone?
>Come to that, which fantasy race would be most likely to be the first big group to embrace communism?

Kobolds.

>>52033015
Well, I'd include a lot of Orcs.

>>52033015
Enflame preexisting tensions in the Orc horde by staging a trophy hunt within an orc tribe's territory, using orc equipment, methods and mounts to implicate another tribe of the violation. Then do the same for the other tribe to make it look like retaliation. That should get them arguing amongst themselves where they'll provide all the precedent necessarry to sell the next stage of the frame up. With the tribe's best away in their army, assemble a task force of elven rangers to attack one of their camps, slaying the elderly and taking the females and children as slaves, again implicating the other tribe. By this point they'll have been arguing so long they won't even need much of a reason for shedding blood but a big act like this could potentially draw in sympathizers.

>>52052997
I much prefer her tacticool elves and their mithra squadmates/fucktoys.

>>52033015
>starting area mostly-elf city comes under attack by zombie swarm set off by villain
>villain also set entire city under enchantment where any non-undead creature that dies turns into a zombie
>party rescues the survivors that haven't already holed up in the upper tiers
>also find a fuckton of weapons either dropped by victims or stockpiled in abandoned barracks, mostly spears and bows
>get idea to have my character (elf) suggest to elven leaders to arm and train the populace to take their city back with hit/run tactics and knowledge of city passages
>short term bonus morale for getting their home back themselves, long term bonus that they'll be trained for this shit if they get attacked again
>tfw GM and rest of party shoot down the idea because it would put the populace in "unnecessary danger" and us being high-level adventurers can just kill all the zombies ourselves
>tfw no one even acknowledges my "give a fish, teach to fish" argument
Saved the town without a hitch, though it's a bit of a hollow victory when we just bait them all to town square, light the fucker, and then IC get called an asshole for torching undead without reservation since they used to be citizens.
>>52043077
I try to keep my guy chill and willing to do most things if it's not "shoot 'em in only the dick"-tier assholery. Statted him to the point where the only things he can't do to a mediocre level is sling lvl 4 spells and hard diplomacy.

>>52050819
>and never managed to win one
What makes you think they were able to besiege Angband? They won the Dagor Aglareb.

We being modern tacticool, or early 19th-century tacticool with greenjackets and rifle-muskets and stuff? The earliest known form of tacticool special forces as we know them today.

>>52043362
>I suspect the devs don't like elves that much. On the plus side, Desert Elves get an exception for black powder weapons and get Black Powder Proficiency at 1st level for free.

We don't hate elves.High Elves are magic users. Use them as magic users.

Also this.
>>52043620
>Like I said, the fantasy splatbook is balanced for itself, not the core book.

This 100%

>>52043826
>That's retarded.
Why?

Recoil mod is directly in relation to damage. There's even a formula in the core rulebook.

>>52043468
>As bows are kinda pointless as a weapon in a modern game.

Bows actualy provide good damage, are fast as fuck, and quiet.

As asurd as it is to be thinking about firing a bow in a gunfight, they actually work pretty well.

>>52043826
Also, recoil penalties only kick in when you're performing things other than a single shot(For obvious reasons, recoil does not effect a single shot, only things like double tapping or autofire)

So yeah.

>>52043226
>Right. Still feels like a bit of a pointless thing, when 'Longbow' would easily translate to 'Large rifle' if they wanted to keep a similar feel/theme to normal elves.

No it wouldn't. Longbows and "large rifles"(of which there are none, Ops and Tactics is actually very specific on guns), are nothing alike.

>>52057473
>Use them as magic users
Why would I want to play a magic user in a /k/ game?

>>52057539

They fill a similar role in fiction, that of the hunter/sniper weapon. I mean the Ranger role in fiction more or less evolved into the Chosen Man and into the modern idea of the designated marksman.

There doesn't seem much reason why wood elves would be unable to use most hunting rifles.

>>52057539
It's not a question of similarity, it's a question of theme.

>>52057501
Bows that do relevant damage are not "fast as fuck"

>>52057592

Yeah, with the general themes of elves I'd lean towards 'designated marksman' more than 'pistolero' if I had to list a weapon for them. A rifle with good handling at long range and a strong tendency towards more man-portable weaponry over infantry support vehicles.

>>52057670
I kinda wish that DM was a thing that was worth bothering with in Shadowrun, but it's mostly just a general invitation for the rentacops to give you hell even if you're just traveling around with the shittiest sniper.

>>52057706

It can be done but the highly urban (I mean 99% of runs happen INSIDE buildings) nature of it makes it hard.

It's better if your GM is willing to work with you and remember that things like City Parks, Courtyards and 'Outside the City' exists.

One of my favourite 4e shadowrun PCs was a designated markswoman (Mind you, she was also handy with a pistol as that's not always appropriate). Starr, Texan (With a runner name like that, of course god damn Texan) elven runner who fought at the battle of the Alamo and thus had serious PTSD issues, especially related to dark/blood magic.

One of my favourite moments of the game was her vs an entire nest of vampires (6 of them in total) where she went well and truly more Operator than the GM expected.

>>52057769
I guess it would be feasible to max out longarms, take pistols as a secondary skill (say 2-3 points, no spec) and take advantage of elven agility. A shotgun can still turn out useful if the place is too cramped, plus a sawed off is the stereotypical weapon of the irish gangster.

>>52057780
I was never sure of these are even elves.

>>52057769

Addendum: A hunting licence is a god send for a designated marksman in shadowrun. Hunting rifles are also surprisingly good weapons if you need something the rent a cops won't complain about when they stop and search your car.

>>52057786

Yeah, shotguns are good and fall under the same skill.

I'd highly recommend a spec in pistols though. Since it's a backup skill you don't need to be good in all weapons in that class, just the particular one you use as your backup. Saves a lot in karma getting good at the skill as opposed to raising the rating.

The other major thing that is great for designated marksmen: Sensors. Shadowrun has a lot of them, use them. Bullets can go through several sorts of walls if you have a big enough gun and you can have a very big gun indeed.

>>52033015
I'd run it with Shadowrun.

>>52057591
They can use hunting rifles. They just take a -2 to them.

There's nothing that stops a forest elf from using a hunting rifle.

And no, a -2 is not a HUGE penalty.

>>52057592
Ops doesn't really do "theme" all that well.

Bows take from 1-3 cp to attack. A firearm is 6-8.

They are fast.

>>52058317

Why do elves suffer a penalty to using said weapons?

>>52058325

>Bows take from 1-3 cp to attack. A firearm is 6-8.

...have your devs ever fired a bow? I mean, it's a very /k/ project but bows are not faster than guns.

>>52058317
>>52058325

Wrong trip. This is me.

Furthermore, I state again that having a penalty to something in ops doesnt mean that your character is useless. Elves, by and large, can do more per turn than most all other races.

>>52058333
In game reason: frail body and small hands are not conducive to guns

Out of game reason: balance against cp.

>>52058344
I am the dev.

And no, not in any capacity.

The goal of that was to actually make bows a feasable choice in combat. Its not a simulation. I can't state that enough.

>>52058362

Yet they can use longbows perfectly fine and are automatically athletic? That doesn't seem like a very coherant theme.

Especially when somehow dwarves don't have this issue despite being a lot smaller.

>>52058380

Well, you'd be better off going with a theme other than 'Rapid fire' for bows if your game has full auto weapons. It comes off rather silly to have them be so fast when bows are not known for being a very fast weapon.

>>52058390
Dwarves have big hands.

Again its not "they are restricted". Its " they have a bit of a harder time with guns".

And like I said before, its more numbers balance than "theme".

>>52058403
I'm not an archer, I'm a hamdgunner.

However, every appearance of bows I've seen(hunters in my area), as shown me that one can fire a bow rather quickly and accurately with practice.

>>52058411

>Dwarves have big hands.

And tiny bodies.

>>52058411
>And like I said before, its more numbers balance than "theme".

The issue there is that it kinda makes wood elves seem very...un-elven. They are worse than other races at using hunting weapons when they are a race of hunters.

>>52058438
Stout bodies. Not tiny. A dwarf weighs as much(more, actually) as a normal human.

Short doesn't mean stout and solid.

>>52058432
A hunting bow is not powerful at all.

>>52058362
>elves
>frail with small hands
Are you functionally retarded?

An actual longbow is incredibly thick and requires strength comparable to a fairly healthy human.

>>52058465
>Stout
It only somewhat makes up for them being incredibly small.

>>52058411

The issue there is the reasons for 'Longarms are hard for them' apply doubly so to actually trying to use longbows. They are somehow adapted to using ranged weapons that require a lot of strength...unless it's a gun.

>>52058464

>The issue there is that it kinda makes wood elves seem very...un-elven.

Yeah, I've been breaking a bunch of standard conceptions about the races.

Also, who said they were a race of hunters?

I specifically didn't include any fluff in Modern Magika because of those conceptions.

>>52058467
>longbow.

In the game I'm talking about recurve and compound bows. There are no longbows in ops and tactics.

>How would you run this?

With lots of semen

Elves are made to be sexually abused

>>52058486
See >>52058507

>>52058495
>Also, who said they were a race of hunters?
A race of nomadic forest dwellers whose primary weapon is the bow didn't invent the damn thing to pick berries.

>>52058495

>Also, who said they were a race of hunters?

Because that is the connotations wood elves have in basically every fantasy RPG?

>>52058520
The argument makes no sense still. If they can use bows, even compounds and recurves, using a rifle should not be an issue. Are you sure you've ever used either a rifle or a bow in your life?

>>52058467

>A hunting bow is not powerful at all.
A compound bow with a IBO speed of 310fps isn't powerful?

>>52058529

Clearly you've never seen how good those elves are with the bow. They can pick berries at many times the range a puny human could.

>>52058537
No, it isn't unless your target is an unarmored deer. An actual war bow, whether composite or longbow, would have about twice the draw weight.

>>52034969
That gives me mental images of orks raiding elven farms and raping and disembering elf children.

This is good for my dick.

>>52058529
>A race of nomadic forest dwellers whose primary weapon is the bow

Fair point.

>>52058532
I've been ignoring "standard connotations" since I've been writing this.

Also I haven't actually written any story, background, or fluff to any of the races.

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>>52043483

>>52058603

>I've been ignoring "standard connotations" since I've been writing this.

Really? What with the forest elves with bows and the spellcasting high elves?

I'm going to call nonsense on that.

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>>52058536
Yes, plenty. And they are far different from using a bow. Carrying and firing a rifle and carrying and firing a bow are not the same. They do not cross over.

If you say they so, please explain how they do.

>>52058557
That's enough draw weight to punch clean through iiia soft armor.

>>52058630
Some of them, anyway.

Either way, I'll forfeit the argument that there isn't a theme behind forest elves.

What I won't, is the argument that they "can't" use rifles because of a -2.

>>52058638

Tiny hands and frail bodies don't work well with bows of any notable size. It doesn't make sense to have a penalty with rifles but not with bows.

>>52058537
While you're still here, can you clarify the meaning of "rounds" in the new full-auto rates of fire? Does it mean rounds of ammunition or rounds of time (in which case I'd use CP instead).

I'd also agree with everyone else on the weapon size problem. I'd rebalance it as a penalty to non-single-shot attacks, so you conceivably make an eleven sniper/designated marksman.

>>52058683

>I'd rebalance it as a penalty to non-single-shot attacks, so you conceivably make an eleven sniper/designated marksman.

Yeah. That makes a lot more sense. Elves are generally associated in fiction with precision and taking their time. They don't hose down an area, they wait for the perfect moment.

>>52058683
Rounds are shots.

≥I'd also agree with everyone else on the weapon size problem. I'd rebalance it as a penalty to non-single-shot attacks, so you conceivably make an eleven sniper/designated marksman.

All the races are getting shifted around as is, but this is actually a good point. I think I'll do this.

>>52058638
It's not a matter of skill. The elven bonus is not due to extreme training it's because of their perception and coordination.

>>52058651
That's because modern body armor isn't meant to handle that kind of weapon shape. It wouldn't even dent gothic plate.

>>52058714
Ok. So slow=more precise and fast=saves ammo. Makes sense. Exactly how many shots do fast autofire attacks save compared to normal? Does it say in the book? I couldn't find the numbers anywhere.

>>52058728
>That's because modern body armor isn't meant to handle that kind of weapon shape. It wouldn't even dent gothic plate.

Ops and tactics is a modern RPG. Focused on modern combat. In the modern world. Modernly.

I don't know what to tell you.


> The elven bonus is not due to extreme training it's because of their perception and coordination.

And what if I told you that those things are not implied in Ops and Tactics?

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>>52058683

>make an eleven sniper/designated marksman.

Dirty elevens! Wipe them all out!

>>52058768
Fuck autocorrect. You know what I meant.

>>52058766
That's still not the point. Archery is less feasible by frail beings than gunnery. A frail person will be completely fucked up after a few days of using a bow. A frail person can still pull a trigger.

That's a known quantity, that's what the english officers who got the militia to relegate archers in the english militia to the same status as assholes who came in unarmed wrote and it's those demonstrable facts that led to the death of the longbowman as a tactical element of the english army, well past the point where gothic harness was getting too strong for their arrows.

A functional archer needs to always be at peak. An asshole with a rifle only needs to have the strength to march and pull the trigger.

>>52058748
Fast = 8
Med = 10
Slow = 12

It should say it in the description of autofire.

Burst fire also uses 4,5 and 6, respectfully

>>52058828
Ok, got it.

>>52058808

I know but I couldn't resist.

>>52058844
Elevens are for lewd.

>>52058874
Ebin.

>>52058821
This is a good point.

I'll take it into consideration when reformatting the races(which I'm already doing due to the next update)

>>52058897
>t. I decided elves should simply be able to use no weapons and are only there to look pretty, unlike the 4' tall manlets who only seem strong because their main competitors are literally little children

>>52058938
?

If I was going to do that ID just remove them.

>>52058938
The current state of forest elves:

• \wasylozengeForest Elves are Medium Sized Creatures.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves have a Mental Limit equal to ((6+WIS Mod)×CL) + 15.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves receive the extra feat Archaic Weapon Proficiency(Bows) at 1st level for free.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves can not use Colossal or Gigantic sized weapons and can not use Huge weapons unless prone or kneeling.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves take a -2 penalty when using all Large sized melee weapons.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves take a -2 penalty when using all Medium sized weapons one handed.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves receive a -5 Racial Recoil Penalty to recoil when using any weapon that has recoil.

• \wasylozengeForest Elves possess Low Light Vision, allowing them to see twice as far as normal in poor lightning conditions, as well as distinguish colors, even in dim lighting.

• Forest Elves receive the extra feats Athlete and Acrobat at 1st level for free.

• \lozengeForest Elves have a base Combat Point Score of 17

• \lozengeForest Elven CHP formula is CON-1

>>52058620
Not even mad. I'd impregnate a brown elf and have brown babies and love my family tenderly..

>>52059292

Is that the planned changes?

>>52059354
Yep.

>>52059292

Do other races get weapon proficiency? Seems a bit more something cultural than racial.

>>52059377

I'm guessing the huge/large stuff just normal 'medium size person' stuff like humans?

>>52059381
Some do.

Desert elves get black powder, high elves get stylus proficiency(its a magic thing),

Hill dwarves get axes, cave dwarves get picks,plains orcs get their fist(combat marital arts), dragonbreed get thwier claws and sslythen get their tails.

>>52059407
Well it means that an elf can't use greatswords or anti material rifles(unless kneeling or prone).

Would WFRP2 lend itself to this kinda stuff? At least the rules, not necessarily the setting.

>>52059381
Also there are no shortage of feats. Its 2 feats a level.

>>52059419

So they are still getting the 'Bigger weapons are not great' just less extreme than before? Or are humans also limited to not using those weapons when not kneeling/prone?

>>52059410

What are the dwarf weapon restrictions like? I imagine they suck at using spears/greatswords due to being too short?

>>52059492
They're getting the "they can't walking fire a barret 50 cal" restriction.

However, most regular rifles are large size, of which they get no penalties to.


>>52059519

I'm on a phone. Google ops and tactics. You'll find it.

Dwarves actually are stuck with terrible combat points.

>>52033488
No tacticool is an ironic term, the weapon equivalent of a ricer putting a spoiler on his shitbox.

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Someone said he needs some medieval operatin' done?

>>52057546
In 5e I take advantage of my High Elf cantrip to get that nice Xd12 Poison Spray to make up for his lack of Sneak Attack, even though he has equal Stealth to the Rogue. Helps that it's an inhalant so it doesn't leave much blood trail. Also taking Cure Wounds as a ranger spell, be your own field medic.

I can imagine using that combo of Firebolt + Distant Spell Metamagic + Spell Sniper feat to get 480ft Xd10 for key eliminations or just burn up classified documents at range. Flavor it as an actual bolt instead of a "mote of flame" and you can have assassinations where there's a bullet wound seared right through the body.

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Unless they're using modern weapons, a variety of deadly arrows seems obvious for equipment. Perhaps a variety of animals as well- ferrets for sneaking into holes for spying, owls to scope out encampments, miles to tunnel under walls/barricades, poisonous snakes and spiders for obvious reasons.

>>52059419
>Well it means that an elf can't use greatswords or anti material rifles(unless kneeling or prone).

Bruh, there should probably be some kind of difference between how you sort out melee and ranged weapons if that's the state of things.

Using a greatsword is pretty different from using an anti-material rifle.

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>>52034338
> Get attacked by the kobolds you've trained to fight the orcs.

> Train local undead to fight for you.

> Experience civil war between your treemen and your undead allies.

> Treemen set themselves on fire at your city gates, starting city fire.

> Start giving arrowheads to the orcs again, because the Kobold menace is so much worse.

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For a bit of real world inspiration, look at what Rhodesian special forces did in the bushwars. It fits pretty well, memes aside.
>small elite force fends off massive, poorly-trained hordes

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>>52033015
Halfway through, during a stay at camp to rest and replenish, they get attacked by tacticool orcs that have adapted their tactics together with their own brutal fighting style.

This leads to a weapons race that culminates in the invention of portatile arcane ritual platforms, a huge international threat that provokes a cold war between the elven and orcish nations. This weapon comes to be known as Magic Gear.

Then love blooms on the battlefield and shit gets crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miaTf1gF4g