Is it just me, or does anyone else get bothered by the number

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For fuck's sake, I just want to be able to play a normal, believable character in a normal, believable party, and not have to deal with always having at least one guy who wants to be a barbarian who will only wield a broken wine bottle as his weapon yet insists that it needs to work the same as a zweihander because game balance.

>>52018541
>>52018581
Have you considered OSR?

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>>52018541
WHATS WRONG WITH ONLY FOCUSING ON ONE SPELL

>>52018607
Megumin gets a pass for being perfect.

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>>52018650

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I guess there's two components to this. The first is hyperspecialization on a gimmick, which is a problem because when a character's gimmick doesn't work (ie, 90% of the time) they're useless, and when it does work then everyone else is useless, and neither results in as much fun as working together. The second issue is a pervasive drive to focus on doing things in silly, nonsensical ways, while arguing that it needs to be on par with (if not strictly better than) methods that are established in the world setting as being standard and effective. This one isn't so much sapping fun from the other players as it is merely tiresome and cringey.

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>>52018541
I would be bothered if it happened in my games, but only because it doesn't seem fun to me. And even then, if the campaign is ridiculous enough, I wouldn't care.
For a more serious/down-to-earth campaign, however...I would like more believable characters.

In the end it's about having fun. Maybe there is fun to be had in playing gimmicky characters. Maybe it breaks the tone of the campaign.

>Inb4 it is another thread about filename related.

>>52018541
>>52018581
Blame 3e and its focus on character builds and system mastery, as it's (unfortunately) the most influential RPG in the modern community and public perception, so you'll have to deal with that mindset whether you want to or not.

Play an older d&d or a retroclone. Character builds aren't a thing, any development happens through play.

>>52018541

I can attest that this has been around since the mid-90s at least. I haven't noticed it getting any more common recently.

>How is this actually fun?

Not everyone gets their fun from having a good character.

A lot of people don't care much about the setting and story, and even less about fitting into it. It's not even always the player's fault, since it's hard to get serious about some generic sword and sorcery setting full of elves, dwarves and orcs. If I still played that shit I'd probably want to make a goofy character too.

Some players believe that a gimmick is an easy route to having a distinctive character. The idea is that you can't think of anything interesting, throw in something weird. Lazy and uninspired, but it's why people do it.

Some players are strict gamists who view TTRPG as a cooperative skirmish wargame with a campaign system. Yeah I know, MUH STORMWIND FELLATIO. But regardless of whether you CAN make a character from a gamist point of view that's also interesting narratively, the fact is that a lot of hard gamist players DON'T.

You'll probably get some shitlord posting something like "Sure, let's all play le human fighter from a nice family, that'll be interesting" as if it's a binary choice between a plain boring character and a stupid as fuck character. People like that can be ignored.

>>52018581
>a normal, believable character
>post picture of a female knight

doubles standart

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>>52018541

Gimmicks are okay so long as there's a solid "base" from which to found them on. It's why the male human fighter is such a staple even if he's not that efficient from a strictly mechanical perspective: he's what ties the party to reality.

>>52018757
>>52019103

On the contrary, I believe everyone /shouldn't/ be a MHF, but that a single well-played MHF adds to the party dynamic even if everyone else is a wizard that can kill 1d6 Ancient Fire Dargons a turn, or bards that insult things with vicious insult as their main means of combat. They're playing the straight man to all the weirdness (or lack of) that either the setting and/or the party provides as well as someone who is able to explain to an outsider how his troupe of freaks functions.

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>>52018650
Megumeme best girl and I'm only saying that because it makes Darkness feel neglected

>>52018541
What is wrong with wanting to toss javelin endlessly?

>>52018541

> Or, casters that wrap their entire character around one particular spell, trying to squeeze everything possible out of it and never bothering with anything else

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327

>While sorcerers and wizards consider haste one of many spells in their repertoire, swiftblades covet haste above all others. As a swiftblade, your arcane-assisted speed combined with melee skill can turn your first strike into a deadly assault. Swiftblades discover unconventional ways to utilize the haste spell, permanently augmenting their speed and fusing complimentary spell effects into each casting. In a very real sense, swiftblades bond to their chosen spell until the two become immutable.

Because it's officially endorsed

>>52018541
>casters that wrap their entire character around one particular spell
Except that's fine. The utility toolbox wizard is less credible as a fantasy archetype.

>>52018541

Because sometimes it's fun to do something different?

Honestly, I think having a gimmick is pretty low on the list of things I worry about in other characters. If they're a good, interesting character who the player has obviously put some effort into, why is it a problem that they have an unusual fighting style or focus? As long as it works, lets them contribute to the game and isn't wonky mechanically, why not?

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>>52018650

>>52019012
Sikelgaita, Petronilla de Grandmesnil, Bradamante, The Order of the Hatchet, Order of the glorious Saint Mary etc.

There are plenty of examples from history and legends to support both women on the battlefield, women being knighted and women in armor. It's hardly a stretch to combine them.

>>52020370

It's not worth replying. Only trolls or idiots actually bitch about the gender of characters in a fucking RPG.

>>52020426
Only fuckwits bitch about anything in a fucking RPG

>>52020443

Nah, there are legitimate things to bitch about when it comes to RPGs. /tg/ just very rarely touches on any of them.

>>52020460
By all means, name a few!

>>52020443
>Only fuckwits bitch about anything in a fucking book.

>>52018541
>Or, casters that wrap their entire character around one particular spell, trying to squeeze everything possible out of it and never bothering with anything else.
This one for me is believable though. Megumin memes aside, it's like that don't fear the man that has practiced a 1000 different attacks, fear the man that has practiced 1 attack a thousand times.

>>52018581
>a barbarian who will only wield a broken wine bottle as his weapon yet insists that it needs to work the same as a zweihander
This, however, is bullshit. You want to stylize a boat oar or a lamp post to be a club, sure but the item has to sort of make sense. A broken off wine bottle could be a 1 handed sword stat wise, but to me it feels more like a dagger.

>>52020480

Actual 'That Guy'ism, when the actions a player take are actively harmful to the enjoyment of the group. Sure, communicating with them and discussing this is better, but there's no harm (and a lot of funny story potential) in venting and bitching on /tg/. It's rarely also useful, with people asking if they/another person are That Guy/That GM. Sure, most of the time they're the asshole in the situation and trying to make someone else look bad, but I've seen a few legitimate ones.

Bad game design and designers can also be legitimately bitched about, even if it's often done wrong. Focusing on specific flaws rather than anecdotal evidence, or specific actions of designers rather than broad ad hominem.

Venting about mechanical flaws in a system is both cathartic for the one venting, and hopefully opens up discussion of how said flaw can be fixed or worked around to improve the experience of the game. This doesn't stop the system being broken, of course, but community fanpatches are a thing for every kind of game.

>>52020534
>fanpatches
>just replace spell slots with mana lmao
>what do you mean sphere X is so ridiculously broken a character killed a level 20 at level 3 in a dual

>>52020601

And this is why discussion is key. Lots of people working together, being critical of ideas and overall figuring out what works.

Even if 'what works' turns out to be 'ban it and the system works so much better'.

>>52019012
>dragons exist
K
> sexual dimorphism expresses itself slightly differently
HURR I DON'T BELIEB IT

>>52020443
t. shitty designer

>>52020773

The root of the double standard is clear and it kinda makes sense, but it's also obviously dumb.

The core idea which causes a lot of problems is 'Everything that is not obviously supernatural or unreal must perfectly obey the laws of the real world'.

Some settings can work by that (although some of the bullshit its used to argue still doesn't make sense), but for D&D et al it's never been true and people trying to cling to it just end up causing more and more problems for themselves.

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Have you wonder why people who play very open world games, like Skyrim or Minecraft, give themselves difficult or weird restrictions on their own behavior after they played the game a few times?

It's because it gets boring, OP.

Maybe if you're new to tabletop playing a generic or 'standard' character is great, fine even, but after you've played a few standard characters you'll need something new to sustain yourself creatively. Something a little stranger.

>blaming 3.5 for this
3.5 was a symptom, not the disease. 3.5 and Pathfinder were coming out literally decades after the basic DnD formula was popular and present. Like I said, people get bored of the basic formula.

>>52018541
The solution is rolling all spell/equipment availability on random tables. Most roguelike games do this. You have to adapt your build to what you find.

>s it just too difficult to have a character that does normal, makes-sense-in-the-world decisions and has the capacity to use more than one single tactic? What happened to verisimilitude and the flexibility that real adventurers would need?
Because games where this happen actively reward people for specializing and actively punishes people for generalizing.

>>52018541
Building gimmicky characters can be fun in its own right. Like how building your deck is part of the fun of CCGs.

>>52021754
Powergaming in a TTRPG is asinine, because the difficulty level is merely what the DM feels that it should be. You can't out-power the DM, only the other player characters, and that's generally just being a dick.

>>52023611
That's bullshit. Most Dms can't balance for crap. Better be safe than sorry and make your character handle a sudden difficult situation that you have no buisness facing due to an inept dm.

>>52023611
>Powergaming in a TTRPG is asinine
Except when it's the only way to remain mechanically relevant past early game, or the only way to make your character idea work within the system, or when your game master is trying to make the world believable instead of putting child protectors on everything you might bump into and the rest of the party are all Stormwind Fallacying drama students who keep bringing flutes to gunfights and you constantly have to save everyone from the fire.

I have no problem playing a 'normal' character for a setting, Party of knights? i'm in. Soldiers taking down an empire? you best believe i'll the sword and board or be a normy.

However i like to have a character that's fun to play, so if i'm feeling it when it's time to create a toon i'll choose to be the strange one. I've been a super intelligent bear, who's an actual bear, wearing a party hat and levitating slightly. Played him well enough, acted well enough, that no one but one guy got butthurt over partying with a bear.

I've also played a talking noble bear who because the quartermaster (and Heavy Assault Bear) of a small sky-pirate ship. He was fun.

In my experience, when you are doing because it's fun, then you are doing TTRPGing right in general. When you are doing it to win, you should be playing video games.

don't get me wrong, the hyper specialized characters are annoying as shit, but i'm a ruthless GM who has no problems with players killing off annoying party members (they must petition in private to do so first, but for the most we do not like Powergaming), so doing shit like that only results in removal if it's not adding anything.

>>52023673
That just means the story ends sooner than expected in my mind. Unexpectedly hard encounters, shit that should be a one turn win turning into a slog, and geneeral shenenigins are what TTRPGing is apout to me. Nothing like swat teaming out a group of orcs, taking no damage, and felling badass, only to be killed in the next area by one lucky as fuck goblin with a crossbow.

That's fun to me.

>>52023795
I mean, if you can justify, in game, why a guy who can move at mach 3 can't operate basic machinery, i'm all game/ But power gaming to the point of 'i win and my party is irrelevant' has no business in TTRPG. TTRGing should be about the narrative, the story, and the characters, not the numbers and how much damage i did to the orc.

In my opinion of course.

What are the 'must have' generic classes?

>>52018541
If a game can be exploited it deserves to be.

>>52024702
For what?

>>52024715

Generic fantasy rpg

>>52024725
If you want it to be properly generic, don't use classes.

>>52024702
None. Play Fantasy d6

>>52024702
I've always used the guiding principle of 'long' (I'm over here and you arn't, now DIE!) 'Mid' (You call that a knife? this is a knife! <produces shotgun>) and 'Short' (hitty hitty Smashy smashy).

So, to answer your question in a not autistic way, fighter (close) rouge (mid) mage (long).

Everything else is a derivative of those three really.

>>52024702
None. Play G.U.R.P.S.

>>52024702
In-Fighter, Out-Fighter, HM-Slave, Sneaker, Face

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>>52027934

>>52027934
Face shouldn't be a class, things work so much better when every character is socially capable. It's another situation where you don't want one person playing the game while the rest of the group waits around because they aren't able to engage effectively. Every character needs to have some face aspects regardless of whether some have more than others, because it's nice to be able to do /something/ in a social situation without auto-failing.

>>52018541
Have you tried not playing Pathfinder.

>>52018581


I think she's holding that sword wrong

>>52030458
>d10 damage
>10 point healing

So unless the last two are of the same type, the fight will never end.

>>52032900
She's getting read to deliver a motherfucking, skullbreaking, helmetcrashing, armordamaging, historically accurate murder stroke

>>52032857

My friends refuse to play anything else.

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>>52032900

>>52018541
Because breaking numbers can sometimes be more fun than adhering to them.

It's like video games. If cheat codes exist or if glitches in the programming may be exploited, people will often exploit it.

>>52019922
There's also master of the unseen hand who specialises in telekinesis culminating in throwing enemies into the sky and master of the seven-fold veil who specialises in prismatic effects and others that don't immediately spring to mind.

Even for martials, having one specialised in trips and another specialised in something else is better imo than them all just full attacking every round. A good party should be about balancing and complementing each other's abilities rather than some fictional dick-waving contest; one guy can trip and another can finish them off once they're down or something similar.

>>52019978
I'd love more themed mages rather than everyone looking at the meta game and aiming for all the most broken spells possible.

>>52024702
Hit-y guy, magic-y guy, sneaky guy, everything else is some combination thereof.

>>52036563
>Even for martials, having one specialised in trips and another specialised in something else is better imo than them all just full attacking every round.
True, but you don't HAVE to specialize in it in order to be able to do it. Taking an AoO is not that big of a deal and it's avoidable with several methods that don't require a feat.

>>52018541
Not really, well as long as it's not disruptive at least

>How is it actually fun
Some people find it fun to roleplay specific concepts, or to try and make thematic characters even if they're not as viable

>>52021256

There's a difference between making new and different characters and making some stupid rules-lawyer build intentionally designed to break the system, derailing everyone's verisimilitude and whatever world you guys are building together.

Which is what OP was actually talking about.

Really this thread is about the classic problem of players and DM wanting different things.

If I want to tell an interesting story and create a world, and you want to win the game, we're coming at it with very different values (And before you start, neither of them are better than the other, faggots)

If it's one player who's clearly at a disconnect with what the group wants to do, talk to him and see if a different game/group might be more his speed. If you're that one player, think about what the group wants and decide if you want that too.

If you don't, find a different group.

Just because you're playing D&D doesn't mean you can't have social skills.

>>52037673
>Really this thread is about the classic problem of players and DM wanting different things.

>If I want to tell an interesting story and create a world, and you want to win the game

Guys doing stupid gimmick builds don't (necessarily) want to win the game though.

They want to play a stupid gimmick build, because they thin the alcoholic dwarf barbarian who exclusively uses tankards and broken bottles as his weapons sounds, dare I say, fun.

The problem lies in the disconnect between how realistic/gritty a game the DM wants to run, and how fantastic/colorful a character the player wants to play.

You are otherwise right, talking out is almost always the best course of action (even if it ends with you two agreeing that you just won't play in this game together), I just thought it's better to not muddle things with involving powergaming in there, which is an entirely separate issue.

>>52019922

Why didn't anyone tell me I could take a ten level "The Flash" prestige class?

>>52040258
Because you are stuck in the hell that's known as "CRB only 3.5".

>>52018541
many systems don't let you be "the best" at 2 different things, heaven forbid 3.

and after you've been "the best" at the normal stuff, you start looking for other things to be "the best" at, and hopefully do better than your last guy.

Plus, if you can make that outlandish thing better that the standard norm, in any way, then it IS a makes-sense-in-the-world decision too.

That's why every battle mage in my Pathfinder game (that isn't hiding that they are a wizard) wears a Haramaki or Silken ceremonial armor, with a kilt. They don't want to die.

>>52024012
>Nothing like swat teaming out a group of orcs, taking no damage, and felling badass, only to be killed in the next area by one lucky as fuck goblin with a crossbow.
Not everyone likes CS:GO playstyles and very few like sitting out the next 60 minutes of combat because a stray arrow nailed then in the toe for 2 damage and killed their -5 con mod wizard.

So they do things like put more points In con, or specialise in a spell or maneuver so they can reliably do their action.

I mean, for martials alone in games like 3.5 if you don't specialise they do really REALLY badly in stuff like anything at all.

Fighters can't talk well compared to a face class. They can't hit people hard without getting hit people hard feats, and are in trouble if focused in ranged and someone gets close. Can't knock people without feats stopping them taking attacks, and the same goes for disarming, sundering, flipping around or even maneuvering during combat.

When trying to do varied stuff is in the game rules punished and less likely to succeed than specialising, people will specialise, because people like to succeed. And GMs tend to use the rules as given instead of houseruling too much.

If you want a game where most things are equally viable actions as adjudicated by the GM, play dungeon world.

>>52018541
Son, there are five types of characters players make. Some grizzled beards might make something else, but you are dealing with one of these five.
1: Powergamer. This guy makes the strongest character he can. He may or may not actually know how to optimize, but he's trying to.
2: Donutsteals. This character who is totally not from an animu or vidya uses a rough mixture of classes and skills to approximate their character. They will regularly whine to have an obscure, worthless spell or ability added to their backstory. They may or may not (usually may not) actually know how to roleplay their character properly. Expect the nuthin personal ronin to be a yes-man quest-jockey.
3: The Clown. This is the one you seem to be having the issue with.He wants to be Jackie-chan in a ladder factory. He wants to summon as many horses as he can for some reason. He wants to surfboard on his shortsword. You are either going to indulge him, or he quickly becomes character 5. A sub-variety of the clown, the Evil Clown has noticed that you can make evil characters, and thus made Brikkfukk, the Bugbear Paladin of Slaughter.
4: The OC. This guy spent a week making his alter-ego, who is a perfectly trained ascetic druid in tune with nature, and has tamed the inner beast of a dinosaur, and is level 1. He will regularly turn down your quest hooks because Thaddeus the Druid doesn't do base stuff like that, but he is still wandering the countryside with Brikkfukk the Bugbear Paladin of Slaughter.
5: Motherfucking Tordek. This guy barely knows what you are playing, and picked a pre-made character. He isn't roleplaying, he is basically a hireling that occasionally does something stupid when not murderhoboing. He is going to sit there, not doing anything except hitting things with his greatsword, or casting magic missile, or asking questions everyone else knows the answers to, and he thinks this is a great time to be had.

These are your options.

>>52032949
But her opponent isn't downed

or even in a vulnerable position for such an attack

Seriously, niggas just gonna slap the whole blade out of her hands now because she has no grip.

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>>52019012
>In a world where one's power is directly proportionate to the amount of favor/currency they they have, and thus are able to afford/claim better shit than the stinking peasants, some autist will be triggered by the idea that a female managed to acquire enough favor or currency to buy good enough shit to beat the evolved form of the stinking peasant, the smelly conscript.

>>52040938
Some players I have met seem to be a combination of does things and some are not at all.
You don't honestly believe that all players can be categorise into x types of players, do you ?

>>52018541
Play a game other than dnd/PF that doesn't require people to be one-trick ponies to be competent.

>>52032900
It's called half-swording.

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>>52018541
But then again, you've posted it precisely as an argument starter...

>>52032949
>murder stroke
>not ending thine opponent rightly
worst knight tbqh

>>52032949
>>52042229
Hey, let's telegraph way ahead of time that we're going to use a specific and quite niche technique which in itself will be quite slow to get started and easy to read. What could possible go wrong?

So she's getting ready to have her attack parried and her face stabbed.

But hey, at least she's doing so in a way which will let you show off how much you know about sword fighting by doing so with a not so intuitive but quite well known and very easily recognisable way.

>>52037555

New, unique and strange doesn't mean your character is a half-dragon fighter/bard/druid who fights with a chalice and a chandelier and has heterochromatic eyes.

>>52033019
Get better friends.

>>52041839
>Play a game other than dnd/PF that doesn't require people to be one-trick ponies to be competent.
What is specific about D&D/PF that requires this from characters? Can someone please explain this?

>>52046078
>Strict class and race system that forces player to follow specific builds to be effective, unless they want to be absolutely helpless
>Hurrr how does it one trick pony durrr

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>>52046078
3.5 and PF often require ludicrous feat trees to be able to reliably perform things like running up to enemies and attacking at the same time, tripping, disarming, grappling, or fighting with most weapons and not be awful at it. But then most of these wind up useless anyways because of restrictions on what you can grapple, inability to disarm natural weapons or spells, flying and massive creatures being unaffected by trip, etc.
Of course, the wizard doesn't need a feat tree to prepare and cast Trip Humanoid and will have bigger slots for Magic Impenetrable Chain Prison later.

>>52046324
So essentially it's that certain classes have to invest heavily in certain areas in order to be competent at them throughout the game, as compared to other characters who are competent at their field by default? Wouldn't this imply that simply buffing martials would remove a lot of the munchkining?

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>>52046078
>>52046240
>>52046324

It's worth noting that D&D 5e doesn't have this problem. "Builds" aren't really a thing unless you put them in, and a straight fighter is gonna be in the same effective ballpark as the silliest sorcerer/warlock/paladin multiclass.

>>52018581
Is holding the sword by the blade the autistic western version of reverse katana stance from old samurai movies?
Also
>wants believable party
>believable characters
>posts art of female knights

>>52046534
It's called "half-swording", apparently.

>>52046454

Buffing martials is by no means simple.

If you try to add extra mechanics to them (Tome of Battle/Path of War), you get endless bitchmoaning despite those systems working great.

And there was an interesting thought experiment I saw on D&D a while ago. If you give a core, single class Fighter plus infinity to attack and damage- That is, it can instantly kill anything it can successfully attack- The class still becomes irrelevant compared to casters by level 15, arguably by level 10.

The problem isn't just power, but scope, and increasing the scope of martials requires more mechanics which pisses off people who are wrapped up in the martial/magic double standard.

>>52046531

'Builds' are a thing in every game with meaningful character generation mechanics.

It isn't a dirty word. It's a descriptor for various ways you can construct a characters capabilities. That's all it is.

>>52046534

see the responses to >>52019012

>>52046564

Half-swording, at least how I was taught to use it, is adjusting your grip on a long or two handed sword, with one hand gripping somewhere on the lower third of the blade and the other on the hilt. It shortens your reach and trades power for a greater measure of control and precision, which is useful in some situations.

>>52046564
I don't think I would recommend women trying to half sword then, if her opponent is male he can easily pull that from her grasp

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>>52046534

It's a mordhau maneuver. It's how you deal with heavy armor when you have a sword. That, or half-swording.

So, we've established that you don't know what you're talking about. But you're quite confident that you know more than everyone else, and that dumb girls can't be fighters lol.

>>52046573
Let's imagine a world where ToB/PoW are widely accepted. Does optimizing stop? I don't think it would be the semi-necessity it currently is for certain classes, but I think people would do it regardless.

I for one enjoy playing with a system, and seeing what is possible and what is viable, which frequently means making somewhat strange characters. The GM and other players are cool with it though, and even do it themselves.

>>52046627
Yea I'm sure half swording was very practical outside of tournament use. I'm sure that in life or death battle your opponents wouldn't just gang bang you and take your sword. This is definitely the autistic western version of reverse katana grip

>>52046564
>>52046610

In >>52046627, the guy on the left is half-swording, the guy on the right is doing mordhau. Half-swording gives you precision, so you can try to aim for joints. Mordhau gives you leverage and impact, so you can try just hammering the motherfucker.

>>52046660

Optimising will always exist. It's less a question of stopping it and more of whether or not a system requires the players to do it for their characters to actually function.

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>>52046454
Buffing is hard. There are instances where later books would release new feats or classes that were straight up improvements on earlier ones, for example a Knight or Cavalier class that delivers on what Fighter is supposed to do but fails. I think those are both actual classes but I don't know if that's what they do,I don't have enough experience with the system to name the exact things I'm referencing.
The Tome of Battle added mechanics to improve martial ability, and while it helps especially earlier on, some people very vocally dislike "weaboo fightan magic" and it also fails to address some of the failures built into the system that hold martials back.
As far as rebuilding things entirely, they tried with 4e. Balance was fantastic because classes focused on doing generally 4 different things, and even then each class could fulfill the roles in different ways. Unfortunately a questionable visual design and other pitfalls led to the common misconceptions that all of the classes play the same way, and that it's an MMO and somehow encourages less roleplaying than earlier systems.
5e's bounded accuracy, streamlined mechanics, more powerful feats that come less often and so far are fewer in number, and magic items given to the DM to view but not players and not assumed to be had at given levels do away with the issue in some regards, but cause other concerns as well.

>>52046670
It's on par with flying tornado kick in tournament rules Tae Kwon do. You do this in a real battle and you'll will get destroyed

>>52046661

Woah there, what the fuck did you do with the goalposts? They were right here, on the "was this a real thing knights did" line, and now I can't find them. It's almost like you're a douchebag who got caught talking bullshit and is desperately backpedaling.

>>52018541
I don't allow this shit in my games, and I make it very clear before inviting a new player.

I think a lot of it stems from players either wanting to be perceived as special, or wanting to be perceived as humorous. What they don't understand is that these things can only be achieved in the game's playspace, not the preparation

>>52046707
No I will yield that half swording exists and was probably used by retarded nobles in tournament fights to show off. It has zero practical application, just like your life

>>52046661
>>52046697

Dude, just stop posting. It's a technique for duels. Knights fought duels and used it. It's not a fake thing. You said something dumb, you got caught, just stop fighting it.

>>52046697

Okay. So if you just had a longsword on hand and were up against a guy in plate, what would you do? Because just slashing at it is going to do bugger all but blunt your sword unless you're really fucking lucky. That's why techniques like this existed.

>>52046738
>>52046747
I hate to burst your fantasy bubbles, but we don't need to talk out our asses here. Go on YouTube and find even one video of a guy beating someone with this retarded technique. You watch any master swordsman, of which many exist today, and none of them do this

>>52046747
I would try to knock him down or stab through his armour with my giant ass sword? I can tell you the ol halfsword technique would be pretty far down my list of go to moves. Or since you are clearly so well versed in medieval combat and knights, you would know to grab the one handed axe from your belt and use that instead. Knights didn't go into battle with one weapon

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>>52046661
>>52046697
Anon, imagine you're fighting someone else in heavy or plate armor and you haven't got a mace or warhammer to crack them through the armor. Hacking at them with your sword, whether one-handed with a shield or with both hands, is just going to dull the edge. Lucky for you, being the versatile weapon it is, you can wield it backwards as an improvised mace or use the amazing power of a glove to grip the blade and use it as an improvised spear (including quickly switching to this stance after throwing them off balance or knocking them down). Now, you can actually crack their noggin or guide your stabbing-point into the joints of their armor.
Name any merit of "reverse grip katanas" that this is comparable to, I dare you.

>>52046827

>stab through his armour

Hahahahahahahaha

You actually think you can stab a longsword directly through fucking plate armour? How stupid can you be?

>>52046778
There's no such thing as a master Swordsman in any civilized culture. You literal fucking autist.

Swordplay is limited exclusively to fantasy, because guns exist and make swords woefully inefficient.

Swords in warfare don't exist, sperglord. How can you be a master if you've never actually used your skill?

>>52046853
Yea actually you can. Maybe not you cause you're a pathetic manlet, but I'm 6'3 220 lbs.
>>52046829
I would sooner try to wrestle him than give him the opportunity to take my sword from me. I've actually fought with medieval weapons agaisnt real people, it's much different from swingng at milk jugs in your back yard. Punches and kicks are involved so I can understand if that frightens you

>>52046778
>go and find a video of somebody using a move designed specifically to injure their opponent whilst fighting in a points-based environment.

Kys.

>>52046880
>There's no such thing as a sword master in today's era
Look at this man, look at him and laugh

>>52046829
Not that guy, but I'll give exactly two advantages of the reverse grip.

Protecting the arm, at the risk of exposing the entire hand. And surprise draw cuts.

Even then, it's woefully situational.

Also.

>>52046895
No, you literal lanklet. 220 at 6'3"

Skinny ass faggot, you couldn't even lift a fucking sword.

>>52046910
Not everyone is afraid of being hurt like you. If this technique was in any way usable there would be videos of it on YouTube. I'll bet you can't even find someone using it with fake larping weapons, because it's Fucking retarded and you're all being trolled by 700 year old medieval jokes

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>>52046895
Alright, you've wrestled him and now you're on top. Now you have to finish him off.
Shit, where'd that dagger go? Oh well, good thing you can just put one hand by the point of the sword and fucking stab him with it just as well. In fact, maybe if you planned on doing this, you could just wield the sword like that in case you have an earlier chance to strike and use it like a bar or short staff to assist in pushing him down to wrestle.

>>52046921
6'3 180 lbs would be a lanklet. Manlets btfo once again. Do girls ever admire your height and size? Must be rough times

>>52046946
Or rip his helmet off and gouge his eyes out? Strangle him to death? Literally do anything other than grab the Fucking blade of your sword and offer its handle to your opponent

>>52046972
You misunderstood, you skinny faggot.

I'm 6'2" and 312.

You're missing 90 pounds of muscle for your size. Muscle's heavier than fat, you fucking loser.

>>52046996
Ahh so you're an angry pit bull then, slightly larger than the manlet but not quite tall enough to make the size look good. At least you can play contact sports and dominate tho

>>52047038
There's a difference between someone like you, and someone like me.

Someone like you pretends they know how combat works, pretends that they're wholly aware of how the battlefield is.

Maybe you've even had military service.

You've never experienced war, boy.

Hope and pray you never do.

You see things you wish you wouldn't see, you watch men die. You improvise on the spot just so you survive just five more minutes.

You'll rip a man's throat out if it means it saves you just thirty extra seconds.

You know nothing of war.

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>>52047090
>psshhh nothing personnel kid

>>52046895

>Yea actually you can.

You're actually claiming to be personally capable of thrusting a sword through hardened steel plate? Not the joints, not weakpoints, not with a dedicated thrusting weapon or using half-swording.

You claim that, in a normal grip, with a normal thrust, you could pierce directly through plate steel armour? Just so we're entirely clear on this?

Thank you, tough guy anon, this is some of the funniest stuff I've seen in weeks.

>>52018650
Megumin a shit.
Every girl in konosuba a shit.
Every girl is worst girl.

Which also makes every girl best girl. It's fucking brilliant.

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>>52047090

>>52020773
>dragons exist
K
>people use different weapons than in the real world
HURR I DON'T BELIEB IT

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>>52041974
No it's not. It's a mordhau. Half-swording means you grip the blade with your left hand (while the right hand still holds it normally) to deliver stronger, more accurate thrusts against armored opponents.

Picture related. Left is half-swording, right is mordhau.

>>52046945
>LARPing is an accurate representation of medieval duels
wew lad

>>52047289
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

I think video games are to blame. My friends and I when we got into ttrpgs were all v gamers and the way win those is pick up everything, talk to everyone, and kill everything. We were not doing it right and I think that's the mindset of new age RP gamers.

>>52047403
Yes, it is entirely possible to pierce steel plate with a sword thrust. Again you only need to go on YouTube to see examples. You even said yourself that armour has weakpoints, but I will play your little game and say it would even pierce the center of the plate, just like bullets sometimes go through Kevlar.

>>52047770
Larping would show you just how easy it is to dismantle some Fucking retard that swings his sword at you while holding the blade

>>52048378

Okay, good. Thanks for confirming you know literally nothing about what you're talking about. Glad we had this talk.

>>52048456
Go on YouTube and check it for yourself. I'm on a phone or I'd post the videos. Armour protects but it isn't invincible

>>52048553

>Search Youtube for 'can a sword pierce plate'
>First link
>https://youtu.be/osTQrJ_axfc?t=117

At close range, against a stationary target, half-swording against extremely thin plate... Penetrated by about an inch. Makes you think, doesn't it?

>>52041107
Oh, sure, exceptions exist. But I'd say between 85-90% of player characters fit firmly into one of those 5, with maybe a splash of another.
It's not like it's necessarily a bad thing to be categorized.

>>52048696
See? Even that wimpy little faggot managed to cause a dent. Now imagine someone who'd been training and fighting their entire lives.

Also
>half inch dent
>not causing damage
>not slowly incapacitating your opponent
I guess the French knights at agincourt didn't think arrows would pierce their armour either

>>52048843

Causing a dent is very different to piercing. Can a sword thrust dent plate? Yes! And it's one of the few useful things you can do with a sword against plate without half-swording it or using a mordhau stance.

Arrows are a very different beast, given that they have a much smaller contact surface. At short range, an appropriately headed arrow or crossbow bolt can pierce plate. At long range they more rely on mass of fire or precision to find weakpoints in the armour- Unless the opponent is mounted and charging. A hail of bodkins against charging knights effectively uses their own speed and momentum against them, making them a lot more effective at piercing.

>>52042277
It's not that telegraphed. She may want to shift her line of attack a bit, but it's perfectly reasonable to use a mordhau against a wide variety of angles especially with her hand protection. Her opponent also seems to be a bit clueless or is maybe hiding from us the fact that he's half-swording, because frankly a standard sword grip is not going to do too much against plate, unless if he goes for her somewhat exposed head (which he is also telegraphing).

Though it may not be obvious to the average viewer that he may very well engage his opponent with a flying pommel, which would indeed end her rightly.

>>52048696
Don't forget that an actual target is going to have something like maille or a gambeson behind that. Actual human bodies also flex as they respond to force, especially if it comes towards the abdomen as the natural reflex against attacks from the front is to gravitate towards a fetal position. Realistically you can penetrate, but it probably won't be enough to disable your opponent. And then it gets into the issue that >>52048893 isn't recognizing enough, which is that your opponent is also going to be engaging you.

Ideally this thrust is performed after you have disabled their weapon or line of attack, but it won't have the same impact because in the video the attacker gets to put his entire body into a very strong attack, while a real duel just doesn't give you that kind of opportunity unless if your opponent lets you (misfortune or incompetence).

Yes you can damage an opponent in plate with a sword, but your chances of getting hurt are much higher and your chances of hurting them are much lower. Best if you used half-swording/mordhau or ideally a different weapon.

>>52048893
>>52049264
Spoken like someone who's literally never fought anyone with a sword. Might is right on the battlefield

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>>52046697

>>52049442
You've fought someone in actual armor with sharp weapons to the death? Didn't know you had a time machine.

>>52047939
Gay

>>52048843

Imagine trying to do that to a moving target

>>52049520
>>52049526
>>52049648
Ask one of your friends to spar with you in the backyard. Make weapons out of wood, allow punching and kicking, and go to town on each other. Suddenly all of your arm chair theories on technique will leave as reality cranks you in the side of the face. Then just imagine yourself using real weapons and trying to kill each other. Most lethal fights would end in minutes, regardless of armour

>>52049648
>>52049264

The video even points out that in the time it'd take you to do that, you'd get hit three times.

Although that does key into one of the other things swords can do against plate. Despite armour and padding, you can still bruise someone, or even break bones or stun them with a few heavy swings. This works better with larger, heavier swords though.

>>52049733

...So you're actually acting like you and your friends incompetently playfighting is a realistic depiction of medieval warfare? My fucking god.

>>52049760
I'm telling you to try it. I took medieval combat classes with a friend who had been doing them for 8 years. Yes, to train we used to beat the shit out of each other with wooden weapons, and he had all sorts of different techniques that impressed me, they were much simpler than anything you'll see in a movie. Hitting a moving target is not difficult in any way, but fighting is very tiring.

You guys do realise that half swording is just 13th century medieval shit posting right? The kind of shit that nobles would joke about among themselves. If you actually wanted to bash someone with your sword you would just hilt smash them.

>>52018541
As a general rule, its fun to experiment. I run an occassional game for my players where they own a gladiator school, basically as a gimmick for letting them make whatever characters they want, allowing them to make stupid or funny builds. when we run an actual campaign, they stick to the tried and true builds. you know why? you might be able to do 290d6 damage with one of your special builds to a bog standard enemy, but what happens when it comes across a wizard's ghost intent on dropping fireballs on you from an unreachable point. that bow that you chose not to get any proficiency in is gonna look pretty good all of a sudden, even if it maxes out a 5d8 damage.

>>52049843
>shooting a ghost with a bow

>>52049733

> Dad teaches his son a lesson for being a bully by making him fight a pro boxer

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Hvnla6XS3ag" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

>>52049760
>not him, but my friends and i actively seek to injure eachother when sparring. its the only way to actually get good. those poly weapons on coldsteel and other sites are phenominal for this. not trying to shill, but wood breaks too easily and we dont want to have blood everywhere all the time.

>>52049819

So... You're saying that eight years of hobbyist experience with other amateurs is enough to let you make absolutely authoritative statements that contradict a lot of what we know from medieval texts and accounts of battles? Is that what you're telling us?

>>52049875
Wood does break easily, pvc plastic tubing wrapped in padding and duct tape is a good cheap alternative, you can even fill it to make it weigh the proper amount.

>>52049819
>Hitting a moving target is not difficult in any way

You can't make this up

>>52049905
I'm telling you that just because some dude may have swung his sword as a clue while in the frenzy of battle, does not make it an effective sword fighting technique. But again I will URGE YOU to try this for yourself. Go ask a friend to try and dismantle you while you half sword him, or better yet ask a stranger who doesn't care about your feelings

>>52049933
You should try it sometime. I get the feeling that literally none of you have ever fought someone, with or without weapons

>>52049952

But that's meaningless. I'm not a knight in full armour, and neither is he. Neither are you.

Nobody has the same modern experience they did, of actually engaging in lethal battle with that kind of equipment. It's why people are laughing at your claims. It's like someone who has done airsoft fighting for years making grandiose statements about modern military combat doctrine that contradict official training materials.

Truly this thread is all that is wrong with /tg/.

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>>52018541
>This post
Good lord, is this a problem?
If I ever played a ttrpg, I just kind of want to play like, an artificer or some kind of poleaxe and shield mageknight or something.
Sort of like this, except slightly less anime.

>>52050004
Except that armour still exists and people do fight while wearing it. But the armour is irrelevant at this point, I never once doubted that you could club someone with a sword. My doubt comes from them letting you do it, from them not just grabbing the Fucking handle you offered them and yanking it from your cheeto crusted gauntlets, or just stepping into you and delivering a should check, or kicking your legs out, or swinging at you with the blade of their sword like a normal person and cutting your unguarded hands off. You can learn a lot from just swinging wooden swords at each other

>>52050065
You kidding? This thread is hilarious.

>>52050065
Tbh it's threads like these that keep me coming back to tg.

>>52050081

>My doubt comes from them letting you do it, from them not just grabbing the Fucking handle you offered them and yanking it from your cheeto crusted gauntlets

...Except warhammers exist. And you can grab the head the same way you can grab a hilt. Except, y'know, it's being swung really hard and trying to grab it is a great way to get your fingers broken.

>swinging at you with the blade of their sword like a normal person and cutting your unguarded hands off

Again, completely misunderstanding plate. A strike to the wrists would hurt, but a vambrace is pretty damn tough. At the absolute worst you might get a fracture, and that'd be if you really fucked up and left yourself wide open. Although, again, no different from using a real mace or club.

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>>52049963

>>52049819
>>52049952
There are plenty of HEMA videos with half-swording sparring. Treatises across Europe all have techniques exhibiting half-swording. I highly doubt it was some global literary ruse. Ending your opponent rightly is probably a joke, but not half-swording.

That said, my comments are centered around the actual application of armor against real weapons, which is just something that we can only speculate about. There's no way to test it without it turning into attempted murder. So while yes, sparring will give you some insights, it won't help much when it comes to actual weapons and armor and how that shapes combat.

Also, you sparred against someone with a lot of experience. No wonder he can hilt smash you - he's going effectively unopposed. In a real fight, he has to do something to open up his opponent such that he can close that range. Otherwise that is likely going to result in him running up the opponent's sword. This range difference is one of the murder stroke's advantages.

>>52049963
where do you think you are ?

>>52050143
Sir you do not understand I am an expert in totally super authentic non-recreational modern day medieval warfare and have personal cut off the hands of many armored men for real and not pretend.

>>52050143
Yea but we aren't talking about warhammers or axes or clubs or spears or dagger are we? We're talking about a retard offering you the hilt of his sword, while he keeps his hands on the Fucking blade. Even if you didn't cut the guys hands off you can make him lose his grip and drop his weapon. You don't even need a friend to test this one, go upstairs and ask your mom when the tendies will be done, grab a bottle of BBQ sauce, and tell her to smack you in the wrist with a wooden spoon.
>>52050146
Alright fair enough, it isn't exactly easy to hit a moving target, but it's also not impossible. You get ten thousand men on a battlefield I'm sure one guy will drive his weapon through some other guys plate armour.

>>52050221
We didn't hilt smash each other, punches and kicks yes but no deliberate maiming. He simply said that you could hilt smash if you needed to. And yes half swording is an 800 year old troll, get over it.

>>52050255

But the Mordhau is all about using your sword as an improvised warhammer. That is literally what you are doing. Why do you find this so hard to understand or to see the practical applications of it?

If you're wearing gauntlets, you're pretty fucking safe gripping a naked blade as long as you have a sure grip. You can even shift grip as long as you release enough before moving your hands. The only way it'd actually injure you is if you acted like a retard and tried to drag your hand down the blade while gripping it tightly.

You are just being utterly bizarre. A lot of your oddly specific points apply to literally any weapon used in a vaguely similar way, yet you pinpoint this one completely reasonable thing as not making sense?

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Oh my god this fucking thread

I can't tell what is bait and what is just sad ignorance

>I would try to knock him down or stab through his armour with my giant ass sword?
>cutting your unguarded hands off
>You guys do realise that half swording is just 13th century medieval shit posting right?

You can't make this shit up

>>52050302
Are you trying to argue that a sword can, when needed, be used to club someone? Because you can club someone with any blunt object and you don't need any formal training to do so. Who in their right mind would spend time learning how to smash someone with the hilt of a sword while gripping the blade. Can you honestly not see that this is clearly something veteran knights would joke about with new recruits?

>>52050255
I think you have this misconception that somehow the mordhau is basically giving the enemy your weapon while the opposite can't be done. A mordhau can still divert or hook a line of attack. A grip can be pretty strong around a blade, especially if it's well protected as illustrated here >>52018581. Similarly, a blade is always vulnerable to being redirected or knocked away, forcing the opponent to recover.

Will a projected murder stroke be easy to counter? Sure! But a murder stroke isn't by nature projected. Also, you are completely forgetting about the fact that the thing is going to hurt at least like being hit by a short, metallic staff, ignoring hitting with a nicely shaped pommel or guard. Grabbing one of these in motion is going to be less than a weapon designed to deal that kind of blunt damage with a small surface, but it's liable to hurt a ton.

>>52050427

...No? Because I've actually used it a little bit in, admittedly, amateur and simplistic reenactment fights, and it actually works pretty damn well?

A sword is weighted to have the balance point at the upper part of the hilt, which aligns quite perfectly with the guard, meaning it makes a very effective strike surface when used as a hammer. Gripping the blade is also surprisingly easy.

>>52050427
I'm honestly kind of impressed how long you've kept this up, because I really don't think you actually believe what you're saying.

>>52050450
My point is simply that any technique which offers your opponent a chance to disarm you easily, is a garbage technique and worthy of mocking.

>>52050427
>Can you honestly not see that this is clearly something veteran knights would joke about with new recruits?
No, because it was used quite effectively in historical documents.

>>52050302
>If you're wearing gauntlets, you're pretty fucking safe gripping a naked blade as long as you have a sure grip.
You're safe even with bare hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo

>>52050498

How is the Mordhau more inviting disarmament than literally any other technique? You're not making any sense.

>>52050511

Bare hands is riskier though. Sweaty palms or a jarring impact could run the blade against flesh or press it into it. It's doable, and if you train for it you can be pretty safe, but gauntlets make it safer still.

>>52050491
Finally were getting somewhere. So you've actually tried this? Did your opponent make any attempts to disarm you? Or did you both continue sparring

>>52050255
Well, grabbing something that's being swung at you is pretty difficult to begin with - I'm not sure why you keep describing the hilt as being 'offered'. You have to see the blow coming, which doesn't always happen. Then you have to react in time to... what, grab the hilt? I'm assuming that's what you're suggesting would happen? Then you have to be dextrous enough to actually pull off that maneuver - which is no small feat. And then you have to hope that the blow didn't break one of the many small bones in your hand, seeing as you were just struck with a piece of metal that hits as hard as a warhammer.

It's not that it's impossible, it's just a really unreliable. You'd be better off just blocking it, parrying, or stepping out the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi757-7XD94

>>52050286
>>52050427
Half-swording and Mordhau is attested in sources from England, Germany, France, Italy, Poland, and Hungary - and those are just the ones that I'm aware of. You have a lot of faith in 'meme magic' if you think everyone managed to agree to the same method of trolling. And yes, using a sword as a blunt weapon is definitely not ideal - ideally you'd be carrying a polearm of some variety - but you don't always have complete control over your environment and it's better to be prepared to use a sword in a way that can more reliably hurt someone in full plate.

>>52050539

Personal experience is less relevant than historical documentation. I am an amateur. I use my experiences to inform my beliefs, but I defer to the experts.

And there were a few times the crossbar was tugged, I recall... But as pointed out above, it's pretty easy to have a firm grip that makes it no more vulnerable to disarming than any other way of using a sword.

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>>52050255

tens of thousands? I thought we were still in your backyard with sticks and arm chairs?

>>52050518
A women's doing it so it's unrealistic and as we all know, perfect accuracy fidelity to 12th century europe is the most important thing in a game where beardy men on weed can fart lasers and there's dragons.

Holy shit

How do you not know that halfswording and mordhauing are basically cornerstones of using a sword against someone wearing full armor if you have anything beyond average knowledge

Is this elaborate trolling?

>>52050547
Wouldn't you have to basically disarm yourself to grab the hilt anyways? That seems like a poor plan

>>52050584
>Personal experience is less relevant than historical documentation
This so hard. There's literal period art of people doing it, it's in some fighting manuals from the periods drawn on for D&D-type games. Fuck whatever you decided in your garage, if people were doing it in the crusades it was relevant.

>>52050534
Oh sure, definitely. The point is that gripping a blade is intuitively a dangerous thing when in fact it's very reasonable to do. For half-swording, sometimes you don't even grip the blade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6KkQStwUqY

>>52018541
Yes, I do want to wield furniture and I will. You can't stop me faggot, you're not my boss, you're not a game designer, you're literally a nobody both on the Internet and in real life.

>>52050644
>grab hilt of half sword autist
>start punching him in the face
>he takes the punches or tries to block
>pull sword away when he blocks punches

>>52050689

>grab hilt of half sword autist

And you're doing this, how?

I'm not saying its impossible, but you act like it's going to be easy.

>>52050689
Here's your (You), kid

I know the people you're arguing with are going to actually try to argue against your childlike textual flailing, but I just wanted to pop in and give you an extra one for all your hard work

>>52050717
He's mistaking half swording with the murder stroke/mordhau.

>>52050759

Even in the latter case, it's still bizarre he's just assuming it's easy.

>>52050584
How is pesonal experience less relevant than 800 year old books? You get to live through the experience personally vs trusting what's been written to be true?>>52050547
Is it so difficult to believe that despite their differences, the nobles from several ancient European countries were all in on the half swording troll? Just think about it for a minute, peasants are peasants no matter where you go. The reason half swording is retarded vs using a proper 2h weapon, is that you don't offer the Fucking handle with a proper 2h weapon. This is why fighting with sticks is important, it teaches you what parts of the weapons are dangerous. If you grab the hilt of someone's sword they can't swing it at you, grabbing the hilt is a good idea even if he's holding the sword properly, flipping the sword around just makes that easier. In a life or death duel, are you going to do anything that gives your opponent a chance to kill you? If ou legit could not pierce his armour with your sword, that means he's wearing a lot of armour, wouldn't tiring him out be better than potentially disarming yourself?

> Suddenly all of your arm chair theories on technique will leave as reality cranks you in the side of the face.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9595457/Amir-Khan-knocks-out-thug-who-tried-to-his-steal-Range-Rover.html

>>52050736
I've said repeatedly to go out and try this for yourselves. I'm not gonna convince you over the Internet, you need to experience it apparantly

>>52048396

Please stop.

>>52050771
Kinda like you're just assuming it's easy to hit someone with an upside down sword?

>>52050828
(You)

>>52050771
Because it's easy to grab a foam-covered stick.

>>52050810
Because you aren't wearing armor, using a real weapon, or dealing with people who aren't trained to keep "poking" because their wounding rules encourage that retarded behavior.

>>52050861
Do it, post results.

>>52050864
>who aren't trained
Who are trained, my bad.

>>52050870
(You)

>>52050864
Oh for Christ sake use a replica sword that's blunted then. JUST GO OUT AND DO IT, experience the pain first hand so you learn.

>>52050888

By this point you're either a troll or unbelievably stupid.

Us 'going out and doing it' isn't relevant. Because we aren't medieval knights trying to kill each other. Can you get that through your thick fucking skull?

>>52050888
No one nearby wants to do that kind of HEMA fighting, nor do I own an appropriate suit of plate that would simulate that scenario. However, it has been emulated quite a bit in other HEMA societies. I'll take their video evidence as better than your wooden stick sparring.

>>52050888
>on this episode of /tg/, most likely overweight mongoloid equates flailing at other mongoloids with sticks to swordsmanship

>>52050909
>>52050918
>>52050949
>I need years of knightly training to stop some dude from taking my weapon
Do it, pussies

>>52051073
(You)

>>52051073
>Le halfswording meme continues

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>American daytime hours
>Burgers talking shit about something predating their country
Typical

Try not playing D&D. No really. With most games I run I tell people to do their best to stat their character and veto anything too stupid. D&D flies against that with its focus on "Builds", and really comes off as something that you are meant to play with random strangers.

>>52051148
>europeans get btfo by north americans in every military engagement weve ever had
>euroshits think they know how to war

>>52051165
To be fair to the euros, that's mostly because we can basically shit infinite men and artillery, rather than genuine combat skill.

>>52051468
>infinite men
they outnumber us exponentially. and the yankies didnt need mondern artillery to send the brits packing in the 1700's

>>52051489
No, we just needed the French.

>>52050810
Because, motherfucker, our experience is inferior. You haven't murdered another person in full-plate have you? No, none of us have.

Have you been raised as a member of the fighting class to ready you for a life of murdering other people in full-plate? No, none of us have.

Your experience is inferior not superior.

>>52051525
>implying you needed the french
they did help tho.

>>52050689
>try to grab his weapon while punching with other hand
Where is your weapon you idiot? Did you throw it away?

>>52047939
>gorilla warfare

Speaking of this, does anyone have a good picture of a blond knight? Need it for a character. Looking for something colorful, cheerful, western, and, optionally, wearign quarter plate and with sword and board. Help a fa/tg/uy out?

>>52040938
>Motherfucking Tordek.
Literally my brother

>>52024750
teach me

>>52048396
Disregarding the fact that you're retarded, the purpose of half-swording and pommeling is to take on someone in heavy armor when you don't have other better options.

Maybe the fucker is bigger than you, and the chance of you winning a wrestling contest are slim. A crack to the helmet with a blunt pommel is going to be more effective than having your blade skip off, and it has the added bonus of not blunting your sword.

Alternatively, maneuvering the tip of your blade into a gap is fucked hard from 3 feet away when your opponent isn't sitting still to let it happen. Shortening the length of blade you're working with increases accuracy.

A firm grip and gloves are all you need to eliminate any danger to yourself, so you're literally only gaining benefits from these techniques... so why wouldn't you use them when you're fighting for your life?

Again, this is for when you don't have better options. Naturally these techniques wouldn't have been using frequently, but it's a good thing to have in your arsenal.

>>52050004
More like making grandiose statements about early gunpowder warfare, since the modern hobbyist simulation isn't even simulating the kind of combat being discussed.

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>>52051856
>being this new

>>52051489
>>52051728
The American Revolution only succeeded because the colonists and the French barely made it more of a hassle than it was worth for the British. If half of the public's opinion on the English imperialism wasn't "can't be arsed", then there wouldn't have been much stopping them.

>>52019244
>spoiler
Absolutely genius.

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>>52049963

If you have somebody really skilled in front you, no mi amigo.

>>52047572
Aqua pls go. You will never be best.

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Half-swording was used in actual combat.
You won't cut your hands by doing it, even without gloves.
You sometimes would wield the sword by the blade and try and pummel opponents.

This is because heavy armor was a bitch to deal with. Wrestling was more common than you might think.

Why is /tg/ so ignorant of history?

>>52057250
>Why is /tg/ so ignorant of history?
Because it's filled with armchair historians and generals who boast about how amazing they are, and then fail harder then Italy in WW2 when it counts. Sadly, still better then /his/ though.

>>52046946
Did you even search for it, because there's a couple hundred videos.

>>52048843
The arrows didn't pierce their armor. You might want to read something once in a while.

>>52046996
>312
>That rageposting

Stay off the tren, bruh.

>>52051489
The french financed the whole damn war and gave you men and weapons. Without them the whole thing would've been over in a couple of months and the founding fathers hanged.

>>52057250
Why are Europeans so ignorant of everything? Try half swording against someone today and you'll get destroyed, because it's Fucking retarded

>>52057375
>not a single knight was killed by arrows
>not one
Euroshit education everyone

>>52018541
>What happened to verisimilitude and the flexibility that real adventurers would need?
Scrapped in favor of multiplicative scaling

If you get a 20% improvement to each of your 5 abilities, you're getting 20% more damage on average. If you instead stack five different 20% boosts on a single ability, you're getting (2.5 + 4)/5 = 30% more damage on average.

>>52059369
The arrows didn't pierce armour, they killed the horses for the most part, and the knights on muddy ground were woefully outmatched on foot; at that point they just got stabbed through the joints or in the visors. You can't shoot through plate effectively. You might score lucky shots on visors or through joints, but the most arrows would do even at point blank range if hitting plate directly is debilitating wounds.

Getting shot with an inch of arrow will hurt like fuck but won't be fatal.

>>52059691

I thought it was the case that, as mentioned above, charging knights on horseback actually ended up more vulnerable to arrows, since their own momentum effectively ended up added to that of the arrow for the purpose of the impact?

>>52018541
Because if you don't overspeciaize you might as well play a caster and do everything for everyone.