/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>52017416
>Akira Edition
Did anything ever become of that YtA game? Torpedo shitposting aside, I mean.

>>52017530
Alas no, there was a lack of interest.

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From a starframe design and tech-specs perspective, I love the Luna class from the Titan novels, but I think they completely jumped the shark with the muh diversity overload in terms of the crew. Is there any material dealing with Luna-class starships that isn't a Tumblr wet dream, or am I going to have to write it myself?

>>52017623
You're probably gonna have to write some yourself.

Excellent taste in ships, by the way.

>>52017623
If you just mean in terms of the actual crew itself, I didn't find it overly preachy (seeing as Roddenberry's whole schtick was "pretend that more of the crew are ayylmaos, we just don't have the makeup budget) - if anything, I just disliked the constant "OH HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT HALF THE CREW ARE FORMER TNG REDSHIRTS? JUST IN CASE YOU FORGOT" namedrops.

That being said, in terms of actual content? The one book I actually own is literally "reeeee be tolerant" strawmanning both from the Titan crew and from the monster of the week. Fun read, sexy space combat, and smug UFP superiority gets taken down a notch. But, like all Trek books, it'll piss you off at least a little if you think about it for too long.

Also, aesthetically the Titan's a beauty - but what about the design specs isn't just a Intrepid II?

>>52017769
I prefer to think of it as a Nebulakira

>>52017561
Doesn't surprise me with this thread.

>>52017530
>>52017561
>>52017824
3 dudes came up with fairly comprehensive answers but I think It all derailed when everybody got into an argument as to what classified as a capital ship, cruiser, frigate, etc.

>>52017867
I personally don't mind. /tg/ is the best place to talk about ST imo.

>>52017968
Yeah, as much as people bitch about our periodic plunges into STO, I do think we cover a lot of general lore and come up with our own fixes for a lot of trek's inconsistencies.

That, reminds me, I'm gonna compile the ship selection tables from the last 2 threads and pastebin em for future reference.

>>52018027
Neat.

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>>52017769
>>52017805
I didn't mind the actual crew composition. The dino-surgeon was fucking awesome, and the giant spiders with vertical quarters were A+ neato. I will definitely have some non-humanoid crew and probably a rescued Borg drone on my Luna. I just minded the HEY GUYS WOW AREN'T WE SO TOLERANT ALSO HALF OF THE HUMANOID BRIDGE OFFICERS ARE TNG CASTOFFS AND THE OTHER HALF ARE GAY :^)))))) virtue signaling masturbation by the author.

Miranda is to Connie refit, as Nebula is to Galaxy, as Luna is to Sovereign. It's got the rollbar and swappable mission module and everything. It also happens to be bad-ass enough at science, exploration, and patrol duties to completely outclass the Intrepid at everything but landing on planetary surfaces. Amusingly enough this would make the Intrepid the Starfleet equivalent of a USMC MEU in one starframe, where its mission profile is getting ground assets in theater while providing plenty of naval firepower and carrying supplementary craft. I view the Akiras as more of a purpose built fast torpedo-spam platform, for intermediate range firepower between the berserker melee range of the Defiant and the theater-scale dakka delivery of the sovereign.

t. tre/k/kie


Picture unrelated but I think the Ambassador doesn't get enough love.

>>52018118
>HEY GUYS WOW AREN'T WE SO TOLERANT ALSO HALF OF THE HUMANOID BRIDGE OFFICERS ARE TNG CASTOFFS AND THE OTHER HALF ARE GAY :^)))))) virtue signaling masturbation by the author.
Yeah, back in the SJW-overrun time period of 2005.

Not to mention Star Trek has always been "hey guys wow aren't we so tolerant" virtue signalling if that's the standard you're going to use.

>>52011874
>Are any of the Trek novels worth it? People have mentioned Destiny and Typhon Pact here before and I was just wondering if any of them would be worth paying money for?
Star Trek Vanguard is pretty good, though it's not really Trek in a couple of places. It does make it clear that everybody wore the miniskirt in TOS, even the JAG office and SFI, though. Its follow up Seekers is also good. Classic TOS Trek without trying to fit it into the Enterprise's timeline.
The Cold Equations trilogy is another good one, though a little bit of knowledge of the Typhon Pact and what happened to Data can make it better. In fact, bits and pieces of the Relaunch series are pretty good in general. Terok Nor is nice and brutal, befitting being a prequel to DS9. Finally, if you like Time Travel stories that include a minimum of it, the Department of Temporal Investigations books are pretty fun.

>>52018188
You know what,I WAS PLAYING STELLARIS AS THE KLINGONS FOR STAR TREK NEW HORIZONS.

>>52018233
What's Dark Mirror like? It piqued my interest because it's a Mirror Universe story and that shit is my jam.

>>52018277
Unfortunately, totally and irrevocably non canon according to what the Mirror Universe turned out to be. Essentially, Diane Duane wrote it as an expansion to the old "Mirror, Mirror" episode. In it, Troi is a mind raping dominatrix, Picard killed Jack Crusher for Beverly Crusher's hand, Riker is a boorish sex hound, Worf is a beaten slave, Reg Barclay is a bodyguard, and Starfleet employ space dolphins to map deep space.

Oh and the Mirror Enterprise-D has 10x the power and weapons as its prime counterpart, because it dumps all the civilian portions for power and an array of planetbusters. Also, imagine the second TNG uniforms with no sleeves, and a verrry short miniskirt for women and you've got the mirror uniform.

I liked it.

Have you read any of the older novels at all? If not, I recommend the Rihannsu stuff, despite it being Rommie fan wank, and the two John Ford books.

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>>52018356
Oh sorry I'm not the same person you were talking to before. I was just wonder what the book was like.

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>>52018356
Sounds like an intensified version of Yesterdays Enterprise.

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>>52018118
>I think the Ambassador doesn't get enough love.
The early 24th century doesn't seem to get enough love in general.
Even in ship designs, which tend to be one of the more popular areas of what-if and expanded universe content, we only really know of the Ambassador class. Every other old ship we see in TNG and beyond are just late 23rd century leftovers.
Unless I missed a databook or something somewhere that filled in the gaps around that time?

>>52018412
>>52018552
>Sounds like an intensified version of Yesterdays Enterprise.
Kind of? Essentially, the Mirror Universe invades the Prime universe because they've conquered pretty much everything in their galaxy, and the stated reason for the Galaxy class in the Mirror is that their plan was to go extra galactic, but the higher ups realized that that shit wasn't going to cut it for actual control. This book predates the Borg episodes by a good half season, I think, so there's that.

>>52018596
There isn't no. The early 24th century has functionally no new ship designs, even in the novels. At best, you have the Excelsior, Ambassador and Constellation classes.

>>52017530
Guy who was trying to run it here:
Died after two rounds because only one person actually 'got' it, there was no discussion of each other's lists and approaches, one dude thought that just using torpedoes as a solution was apparently funny, and the rest of what little there was was bare minimum listing of ships and commentary. And everyone else was chatting STO. I did try and get some more out of people via questioning their responses but to no avail. YTA doesn't work without discussion because it's not like a quest thread so just continuing to post up stuff wouldn't have done anything.

Basically, you're not the kind of people to run it with here.

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>>52018596
Besides the various proto-Galaxy/Nebula designs (New Orleans, Springfield, Cheyenne, Freedom, Challenger), theres the Apollo heavy cruiser, the Niagara Cruiser, the Rigel cruiser, the Excelsior and her variants (Centaur, Currie) as well as the Constellation class.

A fair few of them aren't really canon, but they're decent designs all in all.

>>52018633
The early 24th century was to the Federation what 1991 to about now is to the US. The torrent of ship design money died at Khitomer/fall of the USSR and other than a few projects that never really scaled up (Zumwalt, LCS, Ambassador) and the super big super delayed flagship class (Galaxy, Ford) there was fuck all for new designs because the old ones were still good enough for kicking the shit out of the assorted scrubs that served as enemies. Hopefully we don't need a major incursion like Wolf 359 or the Dominion to give us a kick in the ass and start building new ships again IRL.

>>52018794

My one problem with all these Nebula-styled ships is where's the trade-off? Why are these not the standard? They have everything the base class has and more.
The Miranda at least removes the engineering hull so is clearly lacking in additional facilities that the Constitution/Enterprise might. Same with the Centaur to the Excelsior. But Nebula/Apollo/Luna have all the stuff a Galaxy/Ambassador/Sovereign has and the extra equipment module to boot. and yet somehow they're supposed to be the lesser vessel according to most interpretations, with the conventional layout being at the forefront of the fleet in terms of capability?

>>52018884
They're smaller, a bit slower at warp, less powerful, much less efficient at warp (Connie/Excelsior layout is still the gold standard for Cochrane style warp efficiency, this is discussed in reference to the Defiant and Intrepid designs), and generally have less space for shit, whether that shit is crew, sensors, torpedoes, shuttlecraft, or cargo bays. The equipment module is a tradeoff - the flagship carries the equivalent of ALL the options at once. That's why the flagships are used as standalone exploration cruisers or the backbone of a fleet wing, and the smaller ones have more narrowly focused missions.

Hell, that's another parallel to the US Navy. The Arleigh Burke class destroyers are our big do-everything class, but the Littoral Combat Ship has a funky hull layout, swappable mission modules, smaller crew, less ability to take enemy fire, and shorter length of deployments.

>>52018884
>Luna
Not comparable to the Sovie. It's much smaller, more like an Intrepid 2.0.
>Apollo
Fanwank, not canon. Actually, there is an Apollo-class ship in the show, but it looks nothing like that: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Apollo_class
>Nebula
Loses everything in the neck (which is actually a decent amount of space), including two shuttle bays and the main impulse engine (the Nebula model actually doesn't have ANY impulse engines, but I think it's safe to say that that's just a mistake). I would imagine that it also doesn't have the same saucer separation capabilities. Oh, and, at the very least, the Phoenix was commissioned before the Enterprise (509 stardates before), so it may very well be that the Nebula was the original,the Galaxy was a redesign, and both were felt to have their purpose justifying doing both.

>>52018997
How are they smaller and have less space? If anything their mass is much greater than the main craft because of the equipment pods. The saucer and engineering hulls are the same or nearly the same size as the parent ship, the only bit they lack is the neck, and that's more than compensated for via the pod. The Nebula especially is a massive vessel compared even to most of the heavier ships of the fleet, mounting a full sized Galaxy class saucer section. Only the Miranda/Centaur types with no engineering hull could really be considered smaller and less capable.

>>52019202
>Fan-Wank

If we confine ourselves to ships that appear in the shows then we have a fairly bare-bones Starfleet. I'd much rather integrate some of the recurring/popular designs in the extended media (mostly video games). After all, debating the merits of one made-up ship vs another is a pretty open field so why not fll gaps as we see them?

>>52019252
No, the Nebula does not have a Galaxy sized saucer. The entire ship is like 70% scale compared to a Galaxy. I expect that's where a lot of the confusion comes from.

>>52019364
Possibly because the model kits scale the two the same. As far as I can see, the Nebula's usually cited as being 500 to 600m long, while the Galaxy is closer to 800m.

>>52019364
What's the source on that? On-screen scaling really means nothing, it's full of inconsistencies. Is it from some credible backstage source like the TNG TM?

>>52019455
Length wouldn't really say anything about the saucer size, since the Galaxy's engineering hull and nacelles are set much farther back relative to the saucer than on the Nebula. Width would however be a relevant comparison.

>>52019462
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Nebula_class
>442.23m long according to DS9 TM
This also bears out with how tiny the Nebulas looked docked at DS9 compared to the Enterprise-D.

>>52019468
520m for the Galaxy is what I have on this official blueprint, and the only beam length I've for the Nebula is 457m. A little wider than >>52019513 has though.

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>>52018884
Okay, so I have a couple of different rationalisations for these types of ship.

First off, lets tackle the Nebula. See, in the Star Trek Starship Spotter book that paramount published, they make a point of mentioning that the Galaxy class has "the rather dubious distinction of having the longest design, development and construction period of any class in Starfleet history." I've always thought of this as an indicator that the Galaxy project was nearly a total failure. She had been too ambitious a design with too many power requirements and Utopia Planitia struggled to make her work.

So Starfleet decided to export the problem to other design teams to see what their solution was. Alot of the Proto-Galaxy designs came from this. But the stand-out winner was the Nebula class. She used a more traditional, conservative power system, as well as offering a multi-mission platform. The Nebbie sacrificed maximum warp speed and several redundancies in favour of an adaptable, combat ready chassis that could be repurposed with the same flexibility of the Miranda class, only on a larger scale.

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>>52019627
>>52018884
As for the Luna, she shares a clear design lineage with the Sovereign and the Akira. I would suggest that it was originally intended that the 3 designs would come into servie concurrently, as a way to cover the mission roles of a dozen or so older designs and allow for their gradual decommissioning. However, When the Borg completely fucked Starfleet at Wolf 359, they decided toput their new deep space science vessel on the back-burner and put their emphasis on the Akira, as a combat vessel, and the Sovereign, as an upgunned Galaxy class.

>>52019627
The Enterprise-D took 20 years to iron out and construct, and then the class as a whole suffered massive losses in the Dominion War.

>>52019648
The Intrepid class seems to be another class of limited use. Intrepid, Voyager, and Bellerophon are the only three confirmed to exist per alpha canon. Maybe they really did get relegated to MACO MEU duty?

>>52019668
Post Wolf-359, Starfleet decided not to put their eggs in 1 basket and ramped up their new generation of ships, while building as many galaxy frames as possible, only without any of the creature comforts. They made for good heavy weapons platforms that could take a beating. However their lack of maneuverability meant that only experienced crews could bring one of these Galaxy class starships through a major engagement intact.

>>52019782
I'd say she didn't have the latitude to warrant continued production, with the Nebula, Nova and Luna classes each covering large portions of her mission profile. More than likely she became the diplomatic ship of choice but didn't see a prolonged production period.

>>52019782
The Intrepid always struck me as something that seemed like it was always intended to be a limited run ship for ironing out things like the bio-mimetic gel processing system. It was far too specialized as a science vessel, no matter what bullshit Voyager managed to survive.

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>>52019889
>Intrepid class ships for diplomacy
Oh boy I bet that's gonna go over real well in the Delta Quadrant.

>>52019965
True. Voyager herself was clearly a tech demo with those, the EMH, and the tricobalt drvice.

>>52018118
>spoiler
Boi, this is...pretty...well. Where to start.

The comparisons seem to start off pretty valid, especially since the main protag ship types seem to be Exploration Cruiser vs Multimission (Leaning Towards Science) ships.

Miranda : Connie Refit
Miranda : Ambassador, since the shipframe had such versatility and staying power
Nebbie : Galaxy

Seem to fit alright, but then here we get a problem. The Oberth starts reaching the end of its useful life by the tail end of the TNG era, and needs replacement; and in come the Nova and Intrepid classes, for short-ranged local research and long-ranged scientific exploration, respectively.

>Luna : Sovvy
This is just plain wrong, tbqh - apart from the "generations" of the ships (Sovvy was developed just the year after the Intrepid, whereas the Luna would still be in development for another half-decade), there's the fact that the Sovvy, at the end of the day, is not an exploration ship. It's a battlecruiser, plain and simple.

>Starfleet equivalent of a USMC MEU
Literally what? The planetary landing capability was probably just introduced for emergencies with the ship critically damaged or stranded more than anything else - troop transports needing to land is completely redundant in a setting with high-capacity shuttles/runabouts and transporters.

>>52019979
It involves referencing STO, but yeah, it goes about as well as one would expect. God knows why the Admiralty let them drag Voyager out of mothballs and back to the Delta Quadrant, like that would go over WELL.

>>52019782
>>52019889
>>52019965
>Nebula can do science better than a literal advanced science testbed
>Nebula is a specialised science ship
When will this meme die? Nebbies are galaxies with a smidgeon more science and bullshit space magic, a little less comfy and a lot cheaper.

>Voyager
Given that the Luna was originally designed to take on the GQ with little or no support or armed backup, I feel like while the Intrepids weren't much more than testbeds, Voyager herself (by the end of it at least) was more akin to a Proto-Luna than the version that left Utopia Planita

>>52020087
Voyager was a minmaxed quantum slipstream T7 rape array by the end of the series.

>>52020065
>>52019979
Apparently Tuvok had such an emotional attatchment to the ship where he was briefly merged with a Talaxian, was mind-freaked into committing homicide, was nearly killed dozens of times and was blueballed by a hologram that he decided to abandon logic and command a flying museum.

Alternately he did it just to spite Janeway so he could sit in her precious captains chair. That's entirely understandable.

>>52020087
Oh, no doubt. By the time she reaches Earth, Voyager is less a science vessel and more a pocket battle-cruiser.

>>52020120
>>52020144
After getting home, Endgame Janeway probably just spent every free minute she had bashing Borg STFs desu

>>52020129
>That's entirely understandable.
True. Honestly, of the writing for all of that, Tuvok and most of the Voyager crew aren't the bits I have issue with. They even managed to make Neelix not insufferable, if only by comparison to other Talaxians.

>>52020087
Nebbies are Nu-Mirandas. To that end, they can carry out some of Voyagers missions by their nature. However the Nebula's role is much more general than the Intrepid. For a deep space scientific mission you'd take a Nebbie in a pinch but you'd be much better off getting an Intrepid.

However most of the Interepid's dedicated mission profile was either superseded by the Luna or shared with the Nova. The Nova offered a robust, and evidently interchangeable, pltform for survey missions. But the Luna was what the Intrepid was supposed to be, a deep space research vessel, but with fightan capabilities, courtesy of post-borg/post-dominion Fed sensibilities.

>>52019993
>sperging out this hard
m8 it's just about spaceframe designs.

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>>52017416
So other than the Modiphius playtest, what system does /stg/ recommend for running a Trek RPG?

Realistically, how many different ship classes would Starfleet have being built at any one time? Not counting all the old models still chugging along.

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>>52017416
I'm not convinced that the Akira isn't just an upside-down NX.

>>52020500
>Star Trek names a ship Columbia
>the irl shuttle Columbia explodes
Nah it's clearly a proto-Miranda.

>>52020456
Depends on the group, honestly. Coming fresh into RPGs? I'd recommend Lasers and Feelings. It's fun and accesible. To a group looking for crazy levels of depth and lore adherence? LUG without a doubt.

>>52020500
I...kinda want them to reveal they made a version that was basically just two NXs welded together.

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>>52020548
You mean like this?

>>52020583
Eh, less Constellation, more proto-Prometheus.

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>>52020653
There's always the Gemini class.

>>52020500
The NX was literally designed by flipping the Akira upside down. Not even joking. Doug Drexler even confirmed it.

>>52020511
Those two events happened in the opposite order. They named the NX-02 Columbia in honor of the shuttle.

>>52020807
They had the names lined up before the ship exploded. Enterprise followed by Columbia were the first two shuttle orbiters as well.

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>>52020806
I'm surprised it needed confirming for people. Seriously it's even happened here.

>>52020806
And of course the Miranda was upside down because a studio executive signed off on the plans that way.

>>52021241
And the Klingon Bird of Prey was designed to be a Romulan ship until they changed the villains to be Klingons instead.

>>52021280

I never knew that. Makes A LOT of sense to be honest.

>>52021280
>>52021629

Kinda sucks that the Klingons stole the Bird of Prey shtick and Romulans went with giganto cruisers. Still worked out though, let the Klingons have all those randomly dicking around BoPs just fucking around being 'modern' Klingons and thus far more individualistic rather than the old Empire first focus.

>>52020456
>>52020527
Been looking around for Prime Directive pdfs. Anyone got em?

>>52018233
>Temporal Investigations takes place after the borg invasion crap
Nope.Too bad, because the writing in the sample was decent enough.

>>52023110
It really doesn't come up except for the first part, and only as a "This is why we can't time travel willy nilly."

Are runabouts used to their full potential in beta-canon or STO? I know TNG and VOY barely touched them because that was "the DS9 thing" and TV execs didn't want to confuse the audiences. They seem like the perfect ship for a PC party.
>big enough to be independent of a mothership
>small enough that the players can be the entire crew complement
>not enough dakka to just bull your way through alien encounters
Hell, you could probably do an entire campaign based around the PCs taking a runabout from DS9 and having Gamma Quadrant adventures in an alt-timeline where the bid to blow up the Founders actually worked and the Dominion collapsed.

>>52023968
I imagine most private ships are about runabout size, maybe a tad larger - small and simple enough to run on your own, but big enough to make running a bit of cargo worth it, and maybe bring a few of your friends along for the ride. Wouldn't want to take more than a few of your friends though, because it's only the size of a bus. But anything bigger and you'd start needing a proper crew dedicated to just taking care of the ship, and not doing adventures and stuff.
As far as official stories of such a group? Don't know of any. In STO they are just small starships. Trek is mostly about big adventures needing a big ship and/or a big cast, which is too much for a ship of that size to carry (even DS9 only used them for the smaller-scale stuff - the normal Trek stuff happened on the station, or later the Defiant), and the fiction reflects that. Not saying the setting can't have it, just I don't know of anyone doing it (doesn't help that most of the fiction revolves around familiar faces doing familiar things in mostly familiar places).

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PARTY TIME!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_wdRy7x4Sc

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>>52025578
Neat! You get two bad dragons with that.

>>52025623
I was just thinking what i should get with it, a bulwark and the risian corvette or either of those and the Jem hadar attack ship?

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Just managed to catch a picture of one of these elusive fuckers!

btw, is there any rpg system that is set in the early federation era, pre-TOS to be exact.

>>52023120
It does come up briefly at the end of another of the novels, resulting in three words that can induce reflexive pants-shitting terror.

Assimilated Tyrannosaurus Rex

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>>52026025

Where can I get my mitts on the Modiphius playtest PDF?

>>52028589
http://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediafire.com%2Ffolder%2F36m6c22co6y5m%2FModiphius%2520Star%2520Trek%2520Adventures

It's in the Op, by the way.

>>52028740
Thank you.

Last thread we got into one of our numerous debates about the Prime directive. So I've had an idea. Why don't we posit a scenario and debate what the prime directive solution would be?

>>52029362
That'd require a degree of thought beyond complaining though.

>>52029362

The Prime Directive is whatever the writers need it to be this week. It's a PLOT DEVICE, nothing more.

>>52029471
>>52029555

The main issue with the Prime Directive is whether a given captain follows it 'Rules As Written' (Picard) or 'Rules As Intended' (Kirk).

Or 'Not At All' (Janeway)

>>52029686
What's Sisko's view to it then? Like Kirk's or?

>>52029686
>The main issue with the Prime Directive

No. The main issue with the Prime Directive is that people want it to be real when it manifestly is not.

You're talking about TV shows, movies, and game, not reality or even a model of reality.

I watched TOS when it first aired. bought Zocchi's "This really isn't Trek, it's Alien Space Battle, so don't sue me" game, bought TFG's SFB when it was in ziplocks, have several Trek RPGs, and even watched all of Voyager and Enterprise.

Despite that, even a long time fan like me knows where to draw the line.

You cannot coherently or consistently explain the Prime Directive anymore than you can coherently or consistently explain the transporter. Both are plot devices, both are whatever the writer needs them to be.

>>52029784
Initially closer to Picard's than Kirk's due to the doctrinal state Starfleet was in at the time. By the end of DS9, Sisko had full accepted his role as Emissary of the Prophets, and had thrown the Prime Directive out of the window.

>>52029555
Let's use this interpretation, seeing as somebody went to the bother of making it. Plus it expand it into a set of General orders.

http://www.st-minutiae.com/articles/treaties/general_orders.html

>>52029891
t. autist

>>52030072
>t. autist

>acknowledging there is a difference between fiction and reality
>autist

What ever you need to believe, Skippy, whatever you need to believe.

>>52029994
>Let's use this interpretation

No. Instead let's face reality and acknowledge it's a plot device in a work of fiction.

> seeing as somebody went to the bother of making it.

So because someone wasted their time trying to explain a fantasy rather than accepting reality we all should do the same?

I'll nope out on that, thank you very much. I can enjoy the fiction without trying to make it real.

>>52029471
We do actually manage to cover a lot of topics with our own interpretations.

>>52030242
I feel like you're on the wrong board.

>>52030242
>I'll nope out on that, thank you very much.
And yet, you keep inserting yourself into the discussion.

>>52029891
>>52030192
>>52030256
fucking crybaby, if you don't want to talk about then don't talk about but stop ruining everyone else's time

>>52030242
So I guess we'll just post STO pictures and run ourselves in circles discussing the lacklustre display of Trek RPG materials.

>>52029908
Things would have turned out very different if the Federation didn't have a hardon for getting Bajor into the Federation. At best, Sisko would have gotten an angry Picard speech and be discharged from Starfleet.

>>52030352
Eh, Starfleet didn't think he'd pan out, and then realized that if they threw him out of the fleet that Bajor would tell them to fuck off. It's less a hardon and more "there's cool shit on the other side of this wormhole!"

>>52029908
Prime Directive doesn't apply to warp-capable civilizations.

>>52030242
>So because someone wasted their time trying to explain a fantasy rather than accepting reality

...Why are you on /tg/? Pretty much every fucking activity here is based around attempting to apply a mechanical consistency to a fantasy situation.

That site actually has a solid definition that's workable with. There's literally no reason to whine about 'making it real' like we can't separate fantasy from reality.

>>52030352
Starfleet had 2 serious interests in Bajor. Firstly, they have a huge Bajoran population due to their displacement by the Cardassian occupation. Secondly, and much more importantly, they want to control the wormhole.

>>52030408
It sure as fuck applies to a culture venerating you as Jesus and Moses all in one and expecting you to act like while also serving as Starfleet's liasion anon.

>>52029686
Picard was "Rules As Intended" plenty of times, Kirk just typically got into situations where interference had already happened and he was cleaning it up, or interference was unintentional either through interference or brainwashing.

>>52030408
The Prime Directive in the TNG/DS9/VOY era is "no interference in the internal affairs of a non-Federation race or political entity," with the primary sub-directive being "contact with any pre-warp society is interference by definition." The Prime Directive is, for example, what prevented the Enterprise from taking sides in the Klingon Civil War; even when Picard did up his task force their mission was specifically limited to preventing Romulan interference without taking direct action against the House of Duras.

Whether that's what the Prime Directive originally was is irrelevant, that's what it was during the 24th century.

DS9 was a special case because it was the Bajorans who asked for Starfleet assistance, and even then Sisko tried to avoid interfering in Bajoran political affairs even though he could have.

>>52030242
>face reality
>accepting reality
>on a forum for role-playing games, lore and general escapism

If I wanted to discuss reality I'd probably go somewhere else. Perhaps to Microsoft's forum to troubleshoot excel. But then I'd rather not blow my brains out, so...

>>52023968
In fairness, the Delta Flyer basically took up the runabout slot (replacing the Aeroshuttle, which was supposed to use runabout sets) in that category.

Paris was a fucking cunt, but he was right about how flying something that small and agile with physical controls would be pure sex.

>PCs in a runabout explore an AU
Holy shit, I didn't realise I wanted this so hard.

>>52030880
>If I wanted to discuss reality I'd probably go somewhere else.

I can and do enjoy Trek in all it's forms without having to tie my brain into a knot trying to "explain" all it's plot devices.

Accepting fiction as fiction and allowing fiction its inexplicable aspects means you're accepting fiction for what it is.

>>52030192
>>52030242
>>52031235
Where did the fun-having person touch you, anon?

>>52031235
Who's "tying their brain in a knot"? Nobody here is devoting anything beyond their own spare time to this discussion. But "it isn't real" is basically the laziest response to the topic. It's that sort of thought process that leads to a disconnect from exploration of the philosophy of a show. And given that Star Trek explores a rich vein of philosophy, that seems a shame.

>>52031436
>>52031235
Oh just fuck already!

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>>52031308
>fun
2 0 0 % T R I G G E R E D

Speaking of Trek series, here's some more shit you guys can discuss. The good stuff starts at 5:38 with all the rumors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5qVwZvjm8
HOLY SHIT! ALT TIME LINE WHERE SAREK WAS A KLINGON, ROMULAN, AND A VULCAN! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Ok if that one is true. I think I am NOPE this whole series all together.
So /stg/ do you believe letter campaigns still work? Because I want to so flood their asses with so much butt hurt. They will have no choice but to do it right.

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>>52031730
>discuss
>Discovery

>>52031730
>rumors
Don't give a fuck.

>>52019993
>Intrepid classes
>long-ranged scientific exploration

Man I don't know why we keep calling them that. The Intrepid is full of bleeding edge technology not yet seen on any other ships, and yeah, some of it is some pretty advanced sensor suites that CAN be used for extensive scientific research. But it's also armed to the teeth, including apparently at least a few Tricobalt warheads as standard, and the only two times we see one deployed are both highly sensitive covert ops missions. It's clearly a Starfleet Intelligence reconnaissance ship, with "long range science surveys" hastily scribbled on top of the blueprints for public consumption.

Everyone stop replying to photonicoptim.

>>52032113
Who?

>>52031966
Listen here you fucking aut-
>a Starfleet Intelligence reconnaissance ship, with "long range science surveys" hastily scribbled on top of the blueprints for public consumption.
I...I like this. More than I did my own existing headcanon. Especially since Voyager's astrometrics lab, once infused with a dash of Borg tech, is literally omniscient.

>>52032113
>photonicoptim
You clever little shit.

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So it turns out that STC are being let do their 10 episode run. And Axanar will be allowed to go ahead, but under prohibitive restrictions. Meanwhile Discovery is mired in setbacks and politics. I wish we could just have a show about space adventure without the bullshit meddling.

>>52031966
Because those sensors are for, like, science and stuff. Also, Janeway used to be a scientist before she tasted spoonhead blood, so like, science and stuff.
But the fact of the matter is that the Intrepid class was the fastest ship around, with the highest endurance, at the time (I think the Prometheus was the first to beat it). I mean, sometime SCIENCE happens, and you gotta go fast. And sometimes you need to shoot anomalies. I mean, it happens. Lucky that the ship best equipped to get home from mysteriously getting taken to the opposite side of the galaxy happened to be the one to have just that thing happen to it.
Just because having lots of dakka for a ship of its size, and being fast enough to outrun even Dominion ships, and having sensors better than ships four times its size, is pretty convenient for things like fast, highly sensitive courier missions, or intel stuff, or even commando strikes, is, like, totally secondary.

Star trek is going in the direction of Mechwarrior.

Openly gay crew must have multi cultural officers....

RIP Star Trek again.

>>52034209
Yeah, heaven forbid that Star Trek have a multi-cultural crew, that would be completely unthinkable.

Or chose the best actors in complete disreguard to reace culture or belief... \_0_/

also ignore potential marketing while You are at it.

>>52031966
Aside from the Tricobalts, Voyager really wasn't armed all that well. It had trouble taking on Kazon, and they were given butt monkey status in later seasons. Any later improvements in armament can be handwaved by adapted Borg technology.

>>52034426
This desu, Voyager gets beaten up a surprising amount for how bleeding edge it was supposed to be, infinite torpedoes notwithstanding. Even the tricobalts could have been waved away as part of the Intrepid Testbed meme - think of bombers trying to outrun the shockwave of a nuke, but in subspace.

>>52031966
There was literally an episode where Seven of Boobs went conspiracy-crazy, full red pill, and thought this. Then she tried to explode, or go back to the borg, or something. Then they fixed her brain.

>>52034623
Eh, she went tinfoil hat over the idea that Voyager was specifically dispatched to capture and liberate her, which was certainly one of the less-shit things they did with her. But you don't shit on best girl. Nuh-uh.

>>52034685
Where'd I shit on her? Seven of Boobs is best Trek waifu, save, of course, for OCDONOTSTEALs.

>>52034685
>>52034803
>best girl
>not loli wildman
(no)

>>52031083
>>PCs in a runabout explore an AU
>Holy shit, I didn't realise I wanted this so hard.
Imagine all the small scale brush wars that would be going on with the 3000 year old government suddenly vanishing. Imagine worlds where botanists rate combat hazard pay. Imagine a Borg vessel as a campaign BBEG and you have no fucking prayer of defeating them in combat, so your only hope of survival is a mad dash back to the wormhole so Sisko and Worf can get the Defiant and the station weapons warmed up.

Yeah I'm totally running this if I can find a good system to fit it.

>>52035011
>Trek protagonists
>Borg vesel
>no fucking prayer of defeating them
These are not Federation personnel, report to Starfleet Intelligence immediately.

>>52031966
Alternate explanation: it's a fleet interceptor, Starfleet's equivalent of the F-14 Tomcat.
>ludicrous speed (Warp 9.975 -> Mach 2.25)
>huge sensor range (-> xbawx hueg radar)
>powerful long range kaboomery (tricobalts -> AIM-54C Phoenix)
>variable geometry nacelles for maximum speed and maximum maneuverability (-> swing wing design)
>unusual landing and takeoff capabilities compared to more traditional designs (planetary landing system -> CATOBAR)
>highly advanced yet finicky controls and computers
Now unlike the Tomcat it pretty much has to be a full sized starship given the way phasers, torpedoes, sensors, shields, and warp drives work in Trek, but the Intrepid class exactly as big as it has to be to make all that work and not an inch more. Notice the smaller, more spartan crew accomodations, the tiny cargo and shuttle capacity relative to Federation cruisers, the sickbay dwarfed by everything but the Defiant's vestigial med-station, and the warp drive that seems almost eager to be hooked up to anything that will give it more concentrated go-juice.

>>52035100
Runabouts typically don't have the engineering facilities to make most of the magical mechanical malarkey happen and the PCs would be completely unaware of Janeway's litany of ass pulls unless the players metagame like a motherfucker. From their perspective they'd be facing down a monstrous, implacable, fleet-devouring enemy like at Wolf 359 or the battle of Sector 001, in a jumped up shuttlecraft design that doesn't incorporate any of the anti-Borg lessons of the Defiant, Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner, Intrepid, or Nova. The odds of them defeating a Cube are about nil.

>>52035186
>magical mechanical malarkey

That is my new favorite phrase. I'm going to add it as a character ability in my Trek campaigns.

>>52035186
>fleet interceptor
Problem is, this doesn't make sense in terms of Starfleet's design plans overall. The Intrepid was designed around the period when the Borg threat was wearing off, and the Dominion hadn't arrived yet - it was a period where they figured they could juuuust about get away with stuffing their cutting-edge shit into one class. If anything, I'd liken the Tomcat to the Prometheus:
>ludicrous speed
>advanced technology in general (shrugs)
>powerful kaboomery As Standard, since tricobalt were (and are) pretty rare and scary in-setting
>MVAM for ease of handling (as one ship) with the dakka of several (when split) as necessary, roughly akin to the long-loiter/SANIC positions of the swing-wing

>a jumped up shuttlecraft
and that's why the Flyer is superior :^)

>>52035303
I'm not arguing the Flyer isn't superior. It's literally the replacement class for the Danube. It's just not something available to the rest of Starfleet before 2378.

Speaking of which, I love the composition in this shot. You've got "hero ship" classes from TNG, DS9, and the TOS movies welcoming Voyager home. If ENT had existed at the time they'd probably have had an NX refit in the shot too.

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>>52035352
Fuck, I'm retarded. Here's the picture in question.

>>52035352
>>52035367
Huh, I never thought about that - it's actually kinda heartwarming.

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>>52017416
Hey check this out nerds. Somebody reverse-engineered and hacked together character creation rules for the Star Trek Adventures playtest.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g2ofDX0-7tgHojjk7sKcp7uVFSK3M52eVP45gKNJhgY/edit?usp=sharing

>>52035550
Colour me interested. It's been confusing as to why this feature was missing from releases so far. I mean it's one thing that when developing a game you need to be playtesting the fuck out of as soon as you've got basics down.

>>52034902
Go back to /b/, pedofag.

>>52031966
And then the Endgame!Voyager comes along. and the Stafleet Intelligence types go bugshit and start copying EVERYTHING they can off of it. Fuck the Temporal Prime Directive.

>>52038652
And then it becomes customary for Starfleet ships to broadcast the 1812 Overture on all frequencies during battle.
>transphasic torpedo
>BOOM
>ba dada dada da da da
>transphasic torpedo
>BOOM
>ba dada dada da da da
Eventually our enemies will come to fear classical music.

So because I was bored and on a seven hour car trip earlier, I decided to listen to Enterprise on the way back home. And when the episode where the space freighters were trying to deal with the Nausicaan pirates came up, all I could do was yell at the Captain for being an idiot.

So why is it that the people who wrote that show think that pirates are somehow worthy of allowing to live?

>>52039064
Because a bunch of podunk freighters have no way in hell of winning a war with a bunch of warp capable pirate clans if they escalate and starfleet can barely scrape past the trouble they make for themselves at that point.

>>52039064
>>52039123
That still doesn't explain why Starfleet hadn't genocided the Nausicaans by Kirk's day, let alone Picard's.

>>52039168
'Cause Starfleet, as an extension of the Federation, is very against genocide.

>>52039190
>no genocide
>no genemodding
>no instantly terraforming planets with protomatter
>no uplifting primitives

Does the Federation allow *anything* fun?

>>52039190
>Archer and Phlox let a civlization die
>Picard and Janeway repeatedly tried to genocide the Borg
>Section 31 would have genocided the Founders and slain the Dominion forever if Sisko and Odo hadn't fucked it all up
Nah.

>>52039275
It's possible, but hard to justify. I'm working on a story / game setting that involves flagrant use of stolen borg and quantum slipstream tech, Genesis torps, and the Galaxy class actually living up to what it was designed to do. There will be no AND THEN THE ENTIRE GALAXY EXPLODED escalation of any existing conflicts or new god-like aliens to pull this off either, just good old science, engineering, and social problems.

>>52025976
Prime Directive by the Starfleet Battles guys. Dunno how good it is, though.

>>52039280
Section 31 isn't Starfleet. In fact, every Starfleet officer who is aware of it seems to hate it and wants to bring it down.

>>52039542
I wonder how long Federation would survive without section 31.
It's not like Klingon intelligence or Romulan secret service arent constantly probing feds for weaknesses.
Imagine if this one line of defense was wiped out and they could start infiltrating the society and set Federation on a downward spiral towards its fall.

>>52039811
Arguably this was already happening by 2360. Look at the horrendous chain of flag officer and political fuckups starting with Admiral Bugs-For-Brains in TNG S2 and leading to complete Founder infiltration and subversion, and even a home grown coup, by the later seasons of DS9. The Federation was INCREDIBLY lucky that the Borg, Dominion, Cardassians, Klingons, and Romulans all got defanged within a fifteen year span so that they have time to rebuild and pass out the Voyager goodies to the rest of the fleet.

So what do you reckon happened to the maquis crew when Voyager returned to Earth. I'm sure their service to Starfleet exempted them from a prison sentence, but I somehow doubt they were given the full heroes welcome.

>>52041098
Maybe starfleet intelligence just arranged "accidents" for them all shortly after their return?

>>52041108
I think it's possible that they lumped all the blame oh Chakotay and forced him to resign at the very least.

>>52041202
Chakotay I think achieved a high rank in Starfleet Intelligence after they all got back.

It's fucking retarded because you are handing your anti-terrorist organization to a former terrorist but it is in keeping for Starfleet.

>>52039542
Well, except Admiral Ross.
But we all know flag officers are all insane or evil or both.

>>52041963
I find your comment to be hate filled mngering against higher ups.
You shall be purged with a photon torpedo spread.

t: Fleet Admiral (you)

>>52039811
Do keep in mind that Section 31 isn't the Federation's only intelligence service. There IS a legitimate Starfleet Intelligence branch that operates legally. That would probably be more of a direct counterpart to Klingon Intelligence or the Tal'shiar.

>>52041963
Admiral Ross apparently later on is part of a cabal to oust the Federation President because he was functionally war profiteering, and the next president force him to retire.

I think the best way to illustrate the difference between Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 is with the following scenario:

A mid ranking intelligence officer has gone rogue and has been leaking sensetive Federation data to the Romulan Empire. The Officer has been identified and tracked to a colony near the neutral zone and a plan must be put into place.

Starfleet Intelligence Solution:
We can't be sure that the leak ends with this one officer and it is unlikely that he's working alone. If we try and capture him he may just flee into Romulan space where we cannot follow. And even if we do capture him, he is unlikely to give up any co-conspirators, at least not until they've had a chance to hide their tracks. We need to infiltrate his organization and learn everything that we can.

Several trusted officers will feign discontent with Starfleet's current strategy in a very public fashion. If this does not attract the attention of our traitor then we may have to escalate, perhaps implicate one of them as a conspirator for the Orion syndicate. If our traitor takes the bait, our mole will need to earn the trust of the organization. We can easily stage some sort of scenario for the mole to prove their worth.

When the time is right, once we have the neccessary names, we will instruct the mole to lead as many members of the organization as possible into a trap, essentially destroying their operation and publically embarrassing the Tal Shiar.


Section 31 Solution:
We can't be sure this officer is working alone. It is probable that some of his collaborators, as well as his Tal Shiar handler are present on the colony world. Lets sell some info to Klingon Intelligence in return for them perpetrating a raid by a "Rogue Klingon House". They will kill everyone on the planet and the resulting diplomatic fallout will provide an excellent cover for us to search the planet for evidence of further leakers.

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>>52041098
>>52041108
>>52041202
The Federation in general, and Starfleet in particular, are generally very forgiving when it comes to that kind of stuff. Once whatever happens is over, they tend to just ignore it, chalk it up to circumstance. Worf himself full-on murdered a dude, and all he got was a stern lecture from Picard. The Maquis were only fighting Starfleet because Starfleet was fighting them; they would have happily focused entirely on the Cardassians if Starfleet hadn't white-kighted for them.
And besides, isn't seven years on Janeway's ship enough punishment for anyone?

>>52039280
>Archer and Phlox let a civlization die
So did Picard. And he also tried to prevent people from rescuing some of the people from said civilization.

>>52041981

Well, KI at least. The Tal'Shiar are very much in the same dirty bag as Section 31 when it comes to 'No, bad organisation. Stop playing with things you shouldn't'

I really would love to see a main character in a star trek show be a member of Starfleet Intelligence. It's not like they'd be out of place. Smart, Good with a Phaser, Punches Things. That's basically the 3 major components for being bridge crew. One could easily fill Spock's role if they needed to make them one of the main ego/superego/id roles.

>>52020201

I honestly liked STO Neelix. He didn't really fuck anything up personally and unlike a lot of NPCs he asked politely and apologised when you had to to any pointless running about. Unlike a lot of NPCs who gave you the runabout without at least being polite about it.

>>52039811
>I wonder how long Federation would survive without section 31.

If the Federation can't survive without Section 31, then it shouldn't. The entire point of Star Trek s that humanity shouldn't need to do shit like this anymore, that we're better as people. I may not agree with all of Roddenberry's decisions, but I do agree with that one, since it's the one thing that differentiates Star Trek from any other sci-fi series.

If I were doing a Star Trek series, the only reason why I'd bring in Section 31 would be to devote half a season's storyline to its final destruction.

Probably the same season in which there's a portion of the (former) Klingon Empire that its attempting to join the Federation. The Section is trying to stop it because it can't conceive of any way in which this could be a good thing.

It's be Season 3. Part of the finale would involve Section 31 destroying the lead ship (which would not be called Enterprise) of the series and the heroic sacrifice of one member of the crew (planned since the start of the series).

Season 4 opens up with the crew, and some new members, aboard their new ship: the Enterprise.

>>52042352
Harry Kim is also noteworthy in that he actually defers to your rank as Admiral. he never actually tells you to do something directly, he just says something to the effect of "If I might suggest", and the game just presumes that you accept his suggestion.

>>52042451

>Harry Kim is also noteworthy in that he actually defers to your rank as Admiral. he never actually tells you to do something directly, he just says something to the effect of "If I might suggest", and the game just presumes that you accept his suggestion.

Yeah. Both of them seemed to actually give you the respect that was needed for the PC. Neelix politely asks you (And, being not a jackass, it's assumed that you accept) while Harry Kim makes reasonable suggestions.

It was good writing for the characters, letting the game show how you've progressed without it being hamfisted.

>>52042481
Also I just liked how Neelix interacted with Gaul.

>"Does that make you angry, Talaxian?"
>"No. It makes me sad. For you."

Side note, as a Romulan character, I badly wanted to be able to give Gaul a "reason you such" speech based on the fact that he's not the only one who's lost everything. My Romulan character has technically lost THREE homeworlds - she was born on the colony world of Sindari, which was attacked and wiped out by Nausicaans; then Romulus was destroyed; and then Hakeev destroyed Virinat.

The first one may be bullshit RPing for my character, but the latter two actually happened in-game!

>>52042538

>Bitch do you KNOW how many times I've lost my fucking home and family? One more and I get a free sub.

>>52042538
>No. It makes me sad. For you.
Neelix is such a great man.

Doesn't your character in STO basically work for Section 31?

>>52042627
Now THERE are some words I bet none of us ever expected to type in seriousness...

>>52042558
My character is basically a Romulan version of Worf, in that Sindari was a Romulan border world that came under attack by Nausicaans and sent out a distress call. A Federation vessel was much closer than a Romulan one, and the captain violated the Neutral Zone treaty to render aid. The Nausicaans were driven off, but most Sindarians were dead. My character, Traja Aelhih, was two at the time and one of the only survivors, though "survivor" is a loose term as she had severe burns and radiation poisoning. The crew of the Starfleet vessel - the USS Kumari - took her back to the nearest starbase for medical treatment along with the other Sindari survivors, though Starfleet sent word to Romulus of what had happened and invited the Romulans to send anyone they liked to see to the treatment of the Sindarians and take them back to Romulan space as soon as they were well enough to travel.

Turns out that Traja's mother - who had died - was actually the divorced wive of a Romulan senator named Nurvan. The divorce had been basically amicable, mostly caused by Nurvan's dedication to work. The entire thing might have ended up causing either a massive diplomatic incident (crossing the Neutral Zone, taking Romulan nationals back across to a Federation starbase) or a huge rapprochement between the Romulans and the Federation (saving Sindarian lives, including the daughter of a senator)...but literally the day the Romulan Senate was set to start debating what to do, was also the day Shinzon pulled his crap and they were all murdered.

And some other stuff happened - none of it nearly as dark, at least not until Hakeev shows up (but that's the game itself, not me), but I doubt anyone cares. Suffice to say that my Romulan was largely human-raised (she...didn't get on with the Vulcans who were her first foster parents) is a Romaboo the same way Worf is a Klingaboo.

>>52042722
At a few points the game forces you to, but to its credit you can at least say you hate it each time.

>>52042722
Only when Solid Drake enlists you to repair satellites or something equally stupid.

>>52042451
>Probably the same season in which there's a portion of the (former) Klingon Empire that its attempting to join the Federation. The Section is trying to stop it because it can't conceive of any way in which this could be a good thing.
But that's accurate? The Klingons' entire culture is focused on ritual combat and uses murder as a means of career progression. Allowing them in to the Federation makes a complete mockery of everything the Federation allegedly stands for. It's not unlike letting in 50 million Muslims and claiming the West still stands for anything.

>>52020806
Considering the executives just wanted to use Akira as it is, this is the better option.

>>52043746
1/2

>The Klingons' entire culture is focused on ritual combat

Okay, I admit it, this is for a Star Trek series set well after STO that I would make if I had the rights and the money. It's basically a blend of two abandoned Trek ideas, Star Trek: Federation and Star Trek: New Frontier, but unlike both of those doesn't forget the fundamental optimism that's supposed to be in Trek.

Long backstory short is that the Klingon Empire basically collapsed for REASONS. Omega reasons (the Federation also collapsed for the same reasons). Since then it's basically re-structured itself into three seperate Klingon Empires, each claiming to be the legitimate one:

- The largest is based out of Qo'noS, and basically is made up of the Gowrons and Kruges of the Empire - they're the ones that are big into the warrior culture and honor that we got for most of TNG and DS9. They're very conservative.
- The next-largest is based out of Korvat and is basically made up of the Worfs and Gorkons. They're more progressive...for Klingons.
- The final one is based out of...I dunno, Yov'bot...and is the smallest (barely), BUT is made up of the Duras's and old-TOS-style Klingons. They talk a big game about honor and stuff but really they're duplicitous and treacherous.

Basically de facto the Qo'noS empire is considered to be the official successor state by most galactic powers, but it lacks the organization (thanks to inter-house infighting) or sheer numbers (it's the biggest, but not by a huge degree) needed to subsume the other two, though it is building towards that.

The Korvat Klingons are the ones who apply for New Federation membership. The New Federation by this point has gotten its shit together and is well on its way towards rebuilding the former Federation. The Korvat Klingons don't see a future under Qo'noS or Yov'bot as viable but can't continue existing on their own.

>>52043902
2/2

So the season opens up with the Korvat Klingons formally abandoning any claim at the former Klingon Empire and applying for Federation membership. The remainder of the season has stand-alone episodes, but there's an ongoing arc about the Korvat Klingon's attempts, how the Qo'noS and Yov'bot Klingons react, and so on. Basically the season opener makes it clear that the Korvat Klingons, while they've progressed pretty far towards a more Federation-friendly ideology, haven't quite made it there and so their application is rejected. What wasn't anticipated is that the Korvat Klingons actually start making the necessary changes to their society (at least legally and on paper, with actual social changes expected to gradually follow). By mid-season it's realized that the Korvat weren't just making a political move to frighten the Qo'noS or Yov'bot Klingons, but they actually want to be Federation members.

That's where the Section comes in, to do everything in its power to stop this, while working with the Yov'bot Klingons and manipulating the Qo'noS Klingons to do so, basically trying to throw the former Empire into a state of open interstellar war, while also sabotaging all efforts at Korvat's entry by framing them for various things.

It's up to Our Heroes to stop Section 31 once and for all.

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>>52041445
>treating STO as canon
pic related

That being said, Chakotay (and the rest of the Voyager Maquis) are exactly the kind of people you want to be running counterterrorism. Know the ins and outs of the trade, but have (re)proven their allegiance to the UFP aside from one very specific cardassian thing in the most challenging of circumstances. White Hat Maquis, if you will.

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>>52043946
Stupid heroes. They make them look bad.

OOGA_BOOGA-BOOGA!

>>52041981
I feel like the Obsidian Order doesn't get enough love in these comparisons. I haven't watched much DS9 so I'm unsure if there's much more substance to them than "le faceless secreet big bad", but MA says that they were comparable or superior to the vaunted Tal'shiar.

>>52043746
Correction, the warrior culture focuses on that. Granted the warrior culture is currently the ruling culture, but there have been plenty of Klingons who eschew that, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for there to be a civilian uprising like the Cardassians had with the new civilian government asking the Federation for assistance.

>>52042287
Yeah, b-
...now I just want chibi Trek protags.

>>52042352
Not only in mechanical terms, but I actually found STO Neelix to actually pull off the "I'm comic relief, but only because I've seen some serious shit" themes that he was supposed to have originally, especially with shit like >>52042538 and >>52042627.

Which really says something. Cryptic's writing is better characterisation and more likable than the actual show.
>>52042775
>RP backstory
I actually really, really like this. And I usually enjoy shitting on STO RPers, myself included.

>>52044003

Well, considering how casually Dukat throws info about the Bajoran Resistance around, they seem to live up to their claims.

>>52044094
>>52042352
>>52020201
I'm convinced that the writing for Delta Rising was handled by someone completely different than the rest of the game. Like someone they brought aboard when they were making it and later left before they started writing the Iconian garbage.

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How are these things so popular when most Klingon food is worms and such?

>>52044242
Have you tried it? It's like liquid sex.

>>52044164
This desu, the random errand missions and the "but the iconians were behind THIS, TOO!" at the end had a very different tone from the rest of the expansion. Mechanically it gets a lot of shit, but apart from the above quests, it was overall better handled than much of the other Fed MQ.

I honestly thought that Mindscape's labyrinth shit and 4th-wall-breaking, and to a lesser extent the Tactical Genius shit in the last battle, were some of the best story content in I've seen in STO.

>>52044279
I guess Klingon coffee would wake you the fuck up in the morning.

>>52044242
They seem to be more popular with non-Klingons than with actual Klingons, who obviously prefer bloodwine regardless of the time of day. If you count soft canon, it's essentially a blend of coffee and liquer, though presumably the Starfleet variant is syntheholic.

>>52044291
While I'm not pushed on the Tzenkethi too much, in particular the fact that they're very different-looking from their appearance in the novels (and the fact that the novels basically makes them North Korea, whereas these guys seem to be Klingon Clones #47), I have to admit to loving at least the first mission in "Reckoning". The one where you hang out with the Lukari and just explore spacial anomolies and cosmozoans, investigate a mysteriously dead world's ruins, and then kick a jerk Ferengi in the lobes while finding K-13. The last is particularly poignant if you're running a 23c captain.

>>52044337
>it's essentially a blend of coffee and liquer

So Starfleet officers like to start their day with an Irish Coffee? That explains so much.

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For some reason I've always been interested in the Food and Drink in ST. Anyone else like this?

>>52044064
> Granted the warrior culture is currently the ruling culture, but there have been plenty of Klingons who eschew that
All the way back during ENT the Klingons were collapsing from a truly multifaceted society into MUH WARRIORS and that process was not slowed or reversed at all over the next 225 years covered by the shows and movies. Even their fucking moon exploding didn't slow this process down, only made them temporarily call for a truce with the Federation. They've been on a permanent war economy for a quarter of a millenium or more by the end of DS9, and they were stretched to the breaking point come the victory at Cardassia. If they were EVER, at ANY point, going to calm down and get more civilized, the 2380s would have been the time to do it, especially after the Horrendous Romulan Space Kablooey removed one of their rivals from power. That didn't happen. Instead, the Klingons are up to their old tricks again by 2409, so I doubt that's going to happen.

>>52044242
Headcanon: Klingons are actually really sensitive to caffeine because their default setting is ALWAYS ANGRY, ALL THE TIME so they don't make a ritual out of drinking it every day and building up tolerance the way humans (and apparently Bajorans and Trill) sometimes do. Raktajino is basically Klingon decaf.

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>>52044465
Yes

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>>52044465
God help me, I actually enjoyed that aspect of Neelix's character and wish he had been written more as the shifty, resourceful scavenger he was obviously meant to be in the early episodes, instead of the clownish bumblefuck he became later. The whole idea of needing to grow your own food on a starship or forage for wild stuff was fascinating.

Bajoran cuisine also looked really good. Here's a Trek cooking blog with an interesting recipe for hasperat. Pic related.
http://foodreplicator.tumblr.com/post/34323093533/hasperat

>>52044658
>that one episode where Neelix and Tom get conned and realize they've both become incredibly pussified since the show started

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEUG_ibsZck

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>>52044658
Remove hasperat.

But seriously though, that looks like a pretty good blog.

>>52044766
Jesus fucking christ that's beautiful.

>>52044766
...Christ I hate the look of the Defiant.

>>52045044
How so? It looks about the same as the normal model. Or do you just dislike the Defiant in general?

>>52044766
Those Birds of Pray look fantastic.

>>52044465
>>52044566
>>52044658
You know what really pissed me off in show was just how pussy everyone was about not eating the food that a machine spits on Voyager. While on TNG we never hear the end of people saying especially Troi that you can't real food out of a machine. I think that the real food while different would have been much better and healthier for you in the long run. You are always hearing in sci-fi settings how real food is always better than processed but when it came to VOY they were all just I don't know. Big babies I guess. I don't know way they went in that direction with that.

>>52044766
Eh, I'm not a fan of how fast everything seems to be happening. I get that both the Defiant and the Jem'Hadar ships are supposed to be small and shooty, but Trek has a very definitive combat style, and it's NOT dogfighting a la SW or BSG. Plus, aesthetics aside, a 150m+ long starship should not be turning on dimes like that.

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>>52045137
I abhor the Defiant in general.

Apart from that the HD is great, I'll admit. But Christ, if I could do anything, it'd be strangle whoever design the Defiant with piano wire, then ensure that it was instead made to look like the Saber class.

>>52045241
>While on TNG we never hear the end of people saying especially Troi that you can't real food out of a machine. I think that the real food while different would have been much better and healthier for you in the long run. You are always hearing in sci-fi settings how real food is always better than processed
99% of the time this is a stand-in for the writers bitching about current day canned/microwave food. With TNG-and-later Trek in particular it's completely retarded because replicators can get things right down to the molecule, so you could just scan in food prepared by master chefs and get a five star meal every time.

>>52045721
I was under the impression that if you aren't used to Replicator food then you can taste the difference quite strongly. Like when Scotty spat out the replicated whiskey.

>>52045777
That's a special case. Replicated booze uses synthehol that gets the taste wrong and doesn't let you get drunk.

>>52045777
That's because they don't have any of the bad stuff in the food or drink that come out of replicators. So any unwanted fat, sugar, etc. that isn't good for you will not be reproduced by the machine and replaced by something better for you like a fat substitute or other. That's why Scotty can't get drunk on hard spirits or Troi get fat or a sugar rush from chocolate because it's kind of in a way fake food. Sort of like the different of real crab meat to fake crab meat nowadays but I'm guessing they are better about the mouth feel and look in the future but you can still tell it's not the real thing.

>>52045889
Huh, so Trek went Grimdark after all.

>>52045930
Keep in mind that soldiers and sailors have been banned from getting shitfaced on duty for centuries, and most of the human characters we see in Star Trek are Starfleet officers on duty. There's plenty of real booze in Trek.
>Romulan ale
>Saurian brandy
>real wine served at Sisko's
>Miles and Julian getting shitfaced while Keiko's away
>Bajoran spring wine
>champagne for weddings
The policy of synthehol by default means that you have to go out of your way to get intoxicated so there's no excuse for being a drunkard.

>>52045979
Which I think is totally a double standard in the UFP specifically because you can just cure pretty much anything with an injection in setting. So why not get drunk or eat junk food all day when you can have it countered so easily? I would think drug habits would be running rampage in the UFP since you can just get a shot for that. They said as much when they had that one pusher/user episode in season 1 I think.

>>52046188
Again, we see MILITARY PERSONNEL ON DUTY most of the time. The UFP is totally full of useless NEETs outside of Starfleet, Jake Sisko being the prime example of that.

>>52046275
Which is odd when Roddenberry always stated that Starfleet was a non-militery organization.

>>52046529
>Roddenberry always stated that Starfleet was a non-militery organization

While giving them military ranks, chain-of-command, court martial instead of civilian trials...

>>52046560
I didn't say it wasn't bullshit.

>>52046529
Trekkies probably always assumed that Starfleet was a military organization from the get-go that gradually got more civilian-like, but Enterprise shows the reverse to be true. The United Earth Space Probe Agency feels like it probably grew out of NASA and other such agencies and retained military ranks solely as a throwback to folk like John Glen and Yuri Gagarin, who were military.

But then shit got real in space and so Starfleet needed to become more militarized. But it STARTED as nearly civilian.

>>52046560
To be fair, a lot of civilian agencies do the same. Gene's idealized Starfleet is probably something closer to NOAA In Space instead of Space Navy.

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>>52046560
>>52046275
Maybe it is more like cruise ships that have a chain of command like a military?
>TFW that one guy from the past compared his ship to the QE2.

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>>52047137
>"cruise ship"

>>52047368
>pic related
Holy shit, I hated these things so much. I don't give a shit what kind of fancy materials or power packs you have - a rifle without a stock is barely worthy of the name. Unless you want to have 10 yard groupings at 20 yard range.

>>52048096
I bet Hickok45 could vaporize two-liters at 300 yards with a hand phaser if you put the right sights on it.

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>>52048096
Does this trigger you, anon? Just wondering,

>>52043746
Yeah, it's not like one of the founding members of the Federation settles romantic disputes with ritualized duels to the death or anything.

>>52049559
I mean, /we/ used to, too.

>>52042538
>>52042627
See, it's not that Neelix pities Gaul because Gaul's a bad man who does bad things. He feels sorry for Gaul because he's seen first-hand what the Federation does to people who are dicks without good reason.

>>52049785
That too, yeah. So it's not like they're going to tell the Klingons "No, the ritual combat involved in YOUR culture just wouldn't fit in the Federation, sorry."

>>52049559
Lets be honest, basically every major species in the Federation has some sort of honour-duel ritual. The Vulcans have boner-murder-week. The Andorians have vengeance duels. Humans have... whatever Riker and his Dad competed in. Hell even the Zakdorns have stratagema.

>>52050804

At least the Tellarites are civilized and just have shouting matches to the death.

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>>52017416

Can I get any and all opinions on any tabletop Trek games you guys have played? Trying to rope back together some of my local Trekkies for some gaming.

I've got an unopened StarTrek:Ascension I still haven't gotten around to yet.

Also got a decent STAW collection started right before the local playerbase died. Anybody play this online? It had some solid homebrew, and was both the only DS9/VOY wargame & a better bang for your time than other Trek wargames.

>>52050942
Ah, the Tellarites. Ugly enough to kill a man, but damn if they aren't good debaters and engineers. Totally not dwarves.

>>52051096
>Totally not dwarves.
I'm almost surprised there isn't a Bay12 clan of Tellarites, come to think of it.

>>52050987
I play Attack Wing, at least on a semi-regular basis. My FLGS has regular tournament nights for X-wing and similar games, so there's usually 1 or 2 willing to play. It's fun enough but I mostly get into model games to have the models, so i don't keep track of the local meta and get rekt constantly.

Other than that I've played a rule-lite version of Last Unicorn's TNG rpg. It was pretty fun but we really weren't taking it seriously. I have a fairly lethargic gaming group myself included so getting them to do anything more complex than secret hitler is a bit of an ask.

>>52051137
>usually 1 or 2 willing to play
Kind of jealous. I just want to play a Dominion Wars game, but most people simultaneously are bothered by some holes in the official game but also refuse to honor any houserules or homebrew.

I'm really hoping the reboot Wizkids has in store for this year will actually put back in some of the life they sucked out of it. Core Ruleboot reprint will all errata, card-only packs for ship models, faction variety packs with a bulk discount. Just the card-only packs could undo all the damage the exclusive content and otherwise worse of it did.

>>52051222
>card-only packs

I think that's a recurring theme across this genre of game. Early on in collecting, you feel like you're getting shafted if you're not getting a new model. But now there are so many available that It's much more appealing to be able to customise your fleet with extra cards you may not get with the model.

It's much less of a barrier to entry than the sometimes excessive rules of RPG systems but it can really kill any growth in your player base.

>>52043902
>- The largest is based out of Qo'noS, and basically is made up of the Gowrons and Kruges of the Empire - they're the ones that are big into the warrior culture and honor that we got for most of TNG and DS9. They're very conservative.

>- The final one is based out of...I dunno, Yov'bot...and is the smallest (barely), BUT is made up of the Duras's and old-TOS-style Klingons. They talk a big game about honor and stuff but really they're duplicitous and treacherous.

You put Gowron in the wrong category. Unless you got him mixed up with Martok.

>>52051384
>customise your fleet with extra cards you may not get with the model.

Not just customization, X-Wing has this problem too where something wasn't as viable as it should have been either at launch or later in the meta, but the only way to put out new cards to patch stuff is only by putting out a whole new model they'd have to buy.

So you end up buying a 15$ pack you only needed a couple cards from to make another 15$ pack competitive.

Fuck X-Wing's pricepoints and packaging.

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>>52044658
Peldor Joi! The best Hasperat is made in Quark's on Terok Nor. I love Bajorans!

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>>52048096
>implying Federation small arms don't just do the aiming for you

How the fuck do you think anybody in Starfleet is able to hit the broad side of a barn with these things? It sure as shit isn't because they're aiming.

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>>52047368
>>52048096
>>52051567
Of course what I really want to know is where Voyager got a hold of First Contact phaser rifles issued two years after they left the alpha quadrant.

>>52051567
>>implying Federation small arms don't just do the aiming for you

If Fed small arms do the aiming, why do they fucking miss all the time?

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>>52051703
24th century version of this

>>52051703
I actually have a theory on that. We see them miss in firefights wit other beam weapon armed foes. But against enemies with less advanced weaponry they tend to be more accurate. Enterprise showed this off a fair bit.

And that got me thinking a bout electronic counter measures. What if there's a small, localised target scrambler built into most of these weapons that reduces the accuracy of hostile aimbots?

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>>52050987
I had pic related as a kid:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_-_Game_of_the_Galaxies
Pretty garbage desu.

>>52051798
Totally headcannon, but I see most Trek combat as taking place at much greater distances than shown. But not nearly as far as they could be, because of all the ECM flying around constantly, all the auto-hacking, etc. (maybe there's even a team down on deck 14 coordinating all that stuff).

>>52031966
So does that mean that Janeway was a Starfleet Intelligence captain?

>>52017416
You know what is a good idea for some vidya, why don't we create a civ style game over the unification of Qo'nos, and you can play as kahless and shit. Also, you could also play on the vulcan homeworld and be surak.

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>>52052198

>>52051634

She saw the designs in a dream.

A dream of her using it to murder people.

>>52052198
>Janeway
>Intelligence
>Same sentance
ERROR. ERROR. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

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>>52051929
>headcannon

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>>52051492
>You just grab 'em right by the pah. They let you do it too, when you're a Cardassian officer.

>>52051634
They were stocked with early prototypes. Because Starfleet Intelligence ship.

>>52052198
Nah. But Admiral Paris was, and Janeway was the closest captain to hand he could trust, since she had been his science officer back when he was a captain.

>>52052198
Or Section31... would explain some of her "don't-give-a-shit" moments, if you ignore the whole bipolar thing.

>>52051492
>>52053758
Some people are claiming that I know Praetor Neral. I've never met the guy, believe me. I don't even speak Romulan!

But he seems like a good guy. I know, people, I know. Wouldn't it be a good thing if we got on with Romulus?

>>52051492
>>52053758
>>52056910
I need to state that I ABHOR direct politics in both my games, and in Trek (Also politics in general). That said, I fell out of my fucking chair.

>>52056969
So long as it's meant in jest, I don't mind it.

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Sweet mother of god!
The madmen have done it!

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10423573

>>52060797
Not sure if I like that Enterprise

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>>52060797
I unironically like that warbird. The idea of a massive set of wings sweeping over everything below it.

>>52018702

>Implying more torpedoes aren't the motherfucking answer.

Are you some kind of hippy space communist?

>>52060797
Enterprise J looks like absolute dogshit. Just like all the other 26c ships.

>>52060797
Isn't the Universe-class designed for extragalactic exploration?

>>52061080
Really? I actually really like the Paladin-class, though I wish it could receive the NX-refit treatment to give it a secondary hull.

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Dear Admiral, thank you for your nice letter, but I am actually a Federation M.A.C.O. who was born to kill, whereas clearly you seem to have mistaken me for some sort of Romulan ale sipping, communist dick suck. And although peace probably appeals to tree hugging bi-sexuals like you and your parents, I happen to be a death-dealing, blood-crazed warrior who wakes up every day just hoping for the chance to dismember my enemies and defile their civilizations. Peace sucks a hairy asshole, Admiral. War is the mother-fucking answer.

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>>52061188
>Starfleet Marines
>doing anything other than dying in droves because ground forces are functionally useless when shuttle-craft are effective orbital bombing platforms
>Being outdone by starfleet officers, crewmen and terrorists at what is, ostensibly, their 1 and only job.

>>52061058
>>52061188
Ah yes, the Akira. As seen in Tears of the Prophets, doing almost as well as a luxury liner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owP8rodvksA

You can see what I'm talking about from about the 50 second mark.

>>52061134
It looks like dogshit because it was whipped up in a few hours.

>>52061134
You are a sick, sick fuck, if you EVER put that garbage Paladin skin on the GLORIOUS, GORGEOUS lady that is the Ranger.

>>52061450
>More Akira's go down on screen than Miranda's

How embarrassing.

>>52061592
This. So fucking much this.

Personally I would prefer a Pioneer skin but that's just because I liked my original starting T1 ship.

Ranger is a glorious 2nd place.

>>52061941
I suspect most of the Mirandas were gone by then and their assigning crew got reassigned to Akiras.

>>52060797
Literally how big is that Mofo going to be in game? It has to fuck huge or it just wouldn't feel right. It needs to be at least as large as one of the larger Voth ships. If they make it smaller than that I call bullshit.

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>>52061592
>not putting the Type 0 (TOS) skin on future ships
It's like you don't even like sex.

>>52060981
I really, really don't, and >>52061027 should feel bad.

>>52065434
Hey, it's just the warbird I like. Other two are shit.

>>52061346
>t. officer salty at constantly being raped by klinks whenever he gets boarded because he actually relies on Starfleet Security

>>52065205
Wow it kinda looks not terrible.

>>52061450
>literally nobody but a fucking asteroid has any shields

>>52065541
>t. non-com

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>>52065617
>it's almost as if you're jealous of how he gets respected by his subordinates

>>52065751
>moments before they're all killed by an enemy that is routinely bested via application of the patented Starfleet "hand-axe"

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When you think about it, it's kind of fucked up that Starfleet sends in ground troops with no support and Kevlar body armour when they can give pic-related a warp drive, shields and phasers powerful enough to level buildings.

>>52063366
Plenty of them seem to survive the turret gauntlet

>>52065819
I think it's proven by now that the Federation aren't the best when it comes to military tactics.

>>52065958
They were and still are supposedly a civilian organization, so strapping phasers to a shuttle would be like strapping a M2 to the hood of a camero

>>52065997
This is a bad idea, why exactly?

>>52065997
They do it all the time. Pretty much every starfleet vessel has phasers, even if only low yield defensive ones.

>>52065819
>phasers powerful enough to level buildings.
The standard-issue dust buster phaser can level buildings. One of the big rifles can probably shoot a shuttle out of the sky, let alone some actual dedicated heavy weaponry.
What always got me was why they never used the wide-angle phasers in combat situations. Even if it spread out the energy enough to be incapable of directly incapacitating an enemy, we know that stuff is mighty uncomfortable to even Changelings. The distraction would make a few of them mixed with regular kill-beams do wonders.

Is there a solid count on the number of times Janeway could have gotten voyager home but decided not to?

>>52066289
>The standard-issue dust buster phaser can level buildings
They say that a lot. But given that they often have trouble breaching doors, I'm dubious.

>>52066835
The goddamn pilot episode. Everything else is a consequence of that.

>>52041963

Admiral Ross was a good man who consented to terrible things during the worst war the Federation had ever seen.

>>52061027

I kind of like it, but it looks more like a butterfly than a bird.

Although I can kind of dig flying around the galaxy in a giant butterfly of mass destruction. Name it the IRW Mothra.

>>52061450

>Hey, you know how space has three dimensions and our weapons have ftp capabilities and effectively unlimited range?
>Well let's form up in a line and engage their defenses at point blank range!

I'm convinced that during the Dominion War the only way the Federation could get the Klingons to coordinate with them on battle plans was by agreeing to make every offensive a suicide charge.

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>>52061027

>>52067802
It's more that actual realistic space battles with given technology would just be a lot of sneaking around and taking shots from half a light year away, which would deny the producers the chance to do crazy spacefleet scenes.

>>52067802
>>Hey, you know how space has three dimensions and our weapons have ftp capabilities and effectively unlimited range?
>>Well let's form up in a line and engage their defenses at point blank range!

Two words: Fan Service.

Do you seriously think the average Trekkie wants to watch a space battle which realistically applies the known capabilities of Trek's ships? Hell, in this thread alone posters have been coming up with excuses for why hand phasers are as accurate as slingshots.

The average Trekkie wants kewl, pew-pew, zoom-zoom, boom-boom, brain dead shit like Star Wars and not a lesson in 3D Newtonian physics.

>>52067493
When you consent to terrible things you lose the right to be called a "good man."
Is that tradeoff worth it, in the name of saving the Federation? Maybe. Like how the conscience of one Starfleet captain is a small price to pay to turn a 2-front war into a 3-front war for the Dominion. But don't pretend that Ross isn't a bad man who happens to be on the side of the good ones.

>>52068924
Ross was still a better Admiral than most of the monsters that populated TNG and early DS9.

>>52068924
Nice try, Admiral Cartwright.

>>52068955
I was going to bring up Generic Black Admiral from early DS9 but then I remembered he joined the Maquis in that one episode and started gunning down civilians in the name of home cooked food or some bullshit.

>>52068924
>When you consent to terrible things you lose the right to be called a "good man."

Just audited that Freshman Philosophy 101 course I see.

Terrible things are done with your consent for your benefit every minute of every day. Until you go live in a cave in the woods, you can leave your "moralizing" at the door.

>>52044465

yes especially when actively roleplaying in a social Trek environment. You learn about all the food and drink on Memory Alpha and Beta lol

>>52068924

You'll notice I said was. I used the tense intentionally, perhaps not being specific enough. I think Ross's story, and Sisko's in many ways is a stark reminder that often in defense of the innocent there are no "good" men.

>>52068974
>and started gunning down civilians in the name of home cooked food or some bullshit.
Even in space, niggers will do anything for fried chicken.

In an effort to get into Star Trek, I've started watching TOS from the start, including the pilot since Netflix is cool like that.

That said, I assume it's a common theory that Captain Pike stays in his illusion zoo forever, seeing as how Kirk gets the Enterprise in the real first episode.

>>52069717
There's actually a two-parter in TOS that deals with that, keep watching.

>>52069717
>>52069780

Also keep in mind TOS takes place over a decade after the original pilot.

>>52067802
Reminder that at Wolf 359 they decided to try and fight a fucking borg cube in battle lines of like, 4 or 5 each.