L5R

Have fun being left out of the new LCG

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>>52005933
First of all, I believe you mean "Scorpion".
Second off, you didn't hear this from me, but apparently there is a Crane breeding program where they are having other clans sample their women. It's because their family trees have so far gone around in concentric circles.

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Kinda wish i was kidding...

>tfw you're Phoenix 4lyfe, but you know your clan only ever fails to do anything that matters, or when they do, they fuck it up and something terrible happens.
Jesus, it's like occupying a clan of idiots in a Lovecraft story. "I'll just use the forbidden knowledge this ONE time, there's no way this could backfire like the last 200 times someone did this."

>>52006104
Wha...? Are they resetting the story from the beginning? I can understand getting rid of the Spider, but the Mantis?

>>52006154
At least you're not Lion.

>>52006104
>No Spider
Good.

>>52006072

Is that happening? That kinda sucks.

>>52006181
Mantis pissed off a lot of people by grabbing all of those distinct minor clans and turning them into slightly themed Yoritomo. They might be rolling it back to minor clan/MC Alliance.

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>>52006193
I could never be lion. ugh.

>tfw your waifu gets experienced and you're no longer good enough for her

>>52006104

>tfw no Mantis
>tfw no Wasp bounty hunters
>tfw Based Crab is still there.

Well, 1 out of three isn't horrible.

That is a strange way to spell Crane.

>>52006092
Scorpion courtesans are the only people in the empire known to seduce Unicorn war dogs.

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I wonder if we'll see more genzoman art?

>>52006415
I kinda doubt it. Genzo art doesn't seem like it would fit FFG's style, and isn't accurate to the setting anyway. As over the top as Rokugan can be, it's not quite Genzoman levels.

>>52006447
Fair enough.

As an aside note, anyone have ideas on which direction they're taking the storyline, besides the travesty above?

>>52006104
Shit Gaijin, no Spider I appreciate.
But no Mantis? I'd just started to like them.

>>52005933
>So...which clan is best and why is it Mantis?
Because you hate minor clans and want to turn them into clones of your 20 best pirates.

>>52006310
>tfw no Mantis
>tfw no Wasp bounty hunters
You do realise these were things before they became a great clan, right?

>Kaimetsu-Uo renounced his status as a Crab and departed to find his own destiny, taking with him a dozen samurai who were sworn as his personal vassals. They sailed west, leaving the Empire behind, and eventually landed on what would become the Isles of Silk and Spice, then an untamed and unknown wilderness. There they settled and built a small town, a tall palace on a rocky ledge, and a port to trade with the mainland. In time, this first settlement would become the City of Lightning, one of the two largest Mantis holdings.

That happened some time around year friggin 80.

>During the early days of the Tsuruchi family when they were known simply as the Wasp Clan, the vassals of Tsuruchi were well known for two things: their incredible skill at archery and their unwavering tenacity as bounty hunters.

More recent, but still going to be part of the setting.

>>52006104
>>52006072
>>52006181
>>52006198

So it still remains unclear if they are rebooting preday of thunder or if they are picking a new spot to go with the story, but Mantis and Spider are not starter factions. However they did mention a shadowlands keyword, a monk keyword, and ninja keyword. but no plans to make them their own factions yet

>>52007276
Hopefully we'll find out more at Gama. I'll let you guys know what I find out in Vegas

>>52006104
Spider gone is good. Hopefully Mantis being gone means they aren't a Great Clan and instead the head of a Yoritomo's Alliance style conglomeration of Minor Clans.

>>52007619
Far as I can tell, we don't know if it means Spider have been relegated to non-playable status or if the timelline has been advanced or reverted to a point where they either don't exist or aren't playable.

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>>52005933
>So...which clan is best and why is it Mantis?

What is so good in the Mantis? They are essentially the Unicorn but with ships instead of horses. Their only original thing is that they had some cool characters like pic related.

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So I've just decided that my next character will be a naginata-wielding lady with i-frame dodging, poke attacks, and zoning. I happen to have plenty of xp for this character, so what to do? What School? Any good katas for this fighting style? Anything else I should know other than I will most likely suck ass?

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>>52011173
>i-frame dodging, poke attacks, and zoning
Wat.

>What School? Any good katas for this fighting style?
Read. The. Core. Book. Motherfucker. Kata. Section.

>>52011364
>i-frame dodging, poke attacks, and zoning
>Wat.

High Armor TN / Defense Skill based... well, defense, attacks with long reach, and area attacks that restrain enemy movement.

>Read. The. Core. Book. Motherfucker. Kata. Section.

Been there, done that, had no idea what I was looking for. I just hope someone knows more about naginata characters and has a good build for them. I mean, my whole knowledge about this kind of build is that the Polearms Rank 5 Mastery Ability is kinda-sorta ok.

>>52011413
>Been there, done that, had no idea what I was looking for
Naginata are polearms, so you're looking for any kata that mention polearms. From there, you're looking at any school that can take any kata that mention polearms.

Go!

>>52006489

There are rumors from some French convention that it'll be a full reboot, but I'm not convinced they're trustworthy rumors. I think it's the same place that the box picture showed up. Personally, I'm hoping they reboot back to somewhere in the Hantei dynasty, and focus on smaller scale events instead of redoing the Clan War and keeping focus on ridiculously threatening the empire as a whole.

>>52013205
it was the asmodee game/trade show. new news coming from Gama in Vegas in like 2 weeks

>>52013205
The endless string of THIS WILL END ALL THINGS, MINUTES TO MIDNIIIIIGHT!!!! bullshit got old quick, Day of Thunder was good... if a bit too intense to be done that early (though to be fair they didn't know if the game was going to last). But to keep raising the stakes, over, and over, and over and over...

>>52006193
I like the Lion. Imagine some Matsu chick dominating you during sex.

>>52014299
>Matsu chick dominating you during sex

Pfffff... She would break down crying and commit sudoku because she couldn't choose between ribbed and strawberry condom. Matsu bravado only lasts until the first complication, no matter how obvious or minor it is.

>>52014541
I once played a Matsu in the RPG, but we also were given some freedom so I had some fun because I played her as an very attypical Lion mother that had to raise her daughter alone because her husband was dead (who was ironically a Phoenix). Which is rare because Lion kids are usualy raised by someone else than the parents.
I think the Lion clan is fun to play if you nuance them a little bit.

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>>52011364
>Posts anime
>Doesn't know what i-frame dodging is

>>52014541
>Pfffff... She would break down crying and commit sudoku because she couldn't choose between ribbed and strawberry condom
>Thinking Matsu would not choose 'honourable'

Dammit I need more INFO FFG WHYYYY!?!?!

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>>52015642
>can't recognise trying to direct someone into answering their own questions
>thinks i-frame dodging, etc is a valid way to talk about l5r techniques
Stay mad, anon-kun.

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Okay, /tg/. Tell me your hopes for the next edition of the RPG.

>Will FFG do the stupid dice thing like they did for Star Wars?
>Will they remove R&K?
>What should they keep in the books?

>>52023425
>>Will FFG do the stupid dice thing like they did for Star Wars?
Nope.
>>Will they remove R&K?
Nope.
>>What should they keep in the books?
In general terms? Everything.

I would like to see weapons given the same default damage roll, with weapon bonuses, skill masteries, and techniques used to differentiate them. That's pretty much where 4e was heading anyway, except for the fact it left a pile of mangled and useless weapon statlines in its' wake.

>>52007276
>However they did mention a shadowlands keyword, a monk keyword, and ninja keyword. but no plans to make them their own factions yet

Which might just be them saying that the Crab will have tainted things, Dragon will have Monks and Scorpion will have Ninja.

>>52008660
A reboot does even mean that Spider, Mantis and other things are permanently gone.

>>52005933
Someone should make a Legend of the Five Rings type of setting for Africa or the Americas.

>>52023569
>A reboot does even mean that Spider, Mantis and other things are permanently gone.
No shit.

Now point to an FFG official representative saying 'reboot'.

>>52023723
Damn it, typo-ed that. It should have been "...doesn't even mean..."

This was include in reference to the picture in >>52006104

>"Terra Ludica: Pour l'histoire ils font un reboot via le JDR. Donc on oublie tous les chemins pris par la V1 sur la storyline."

reportedly this Google translates to:

>"Terra Ludica: For the story they make a reboot via the JDR. So we forget all the paths taken by the V1 on the storyline."

JDR = RPG

>>52023816
>Damn it, typo-ed that. It should have been "...doesn't even mean..."
... That would make more sense.

>>52006104
>>52005933
Someone explain what this means to someone who has never heard of this game but thinks it looks cool?

Are they rebooting it and leaving out some faction or something?

>>52024055
Legend of the 5 Rings is a long running IP originally based around a CCG. It focused around the conflicts between a group of samurai clans in the lands of a pseudo-Japan name Rokugan.

In 2015 Fantasy Flight Games (FFG) bought the entire L5R IP from Alderac Entertainment Group (AEG). At the time of the sale their were 9 great clan factions: Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Mantis, Phoenix, Scorpion, Spider and Unicorn.

The picture in >>52006104 taken at the FFG booth at a French gaming convention seems to be announcing the LCG relaunch. The 7 circular icons (known as "mons") are (from left to right top to bottom) the ones for the Crane, Crab, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion and Unicorn. Two clan's mons (Mantis and Spider) are missing. The quote I put in >>52023816 says that the poster of the image was told that they are rebooting the story so we can forget all the story paths the previous version went through.

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>>52018974
>can't recognise trying to direct someone into answering their own questions

We aren't RPing Togashi Monks here, anon.

>>52024942
Of course, spoonfeeding-kun. In the future, I'll strive to follow your shining honurabu example.

Or, yknow, not.

Guy wants a school and kata to use a naginata, doesn't know shit about schools, shit about kata, or shit about polearms? Read, nigga, read. Has to happen sooner or later. Naginata is a polearm, you already read the kata, and the correct kata will point to the school(s) you want.*

*by "you", I don't mean you, spoonfeeding-kun.

>>52006104
>no mantis as a great clan
>no spider as a great clan
Good, but for those of you who are concerned, i'm sure the fanboys will ensure something equally retarded becomes a great clan within a few years, like the Dog or Hammershark clan

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Best clan is obviously the Dragon clan. Best family of best clan is Mirumoto family.

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>>52025080
>Guy wants a school and kata to use a naginata, doesn't know shit about schools, shit about kata, or shit about polearms?

Anon from >>52011173 here. I know all the schools and kata, I just don't know which one fits for a naginata-centered passive-aggressive character. Lion Elite Spearman looks shit because R2 and R3 is an utter waste of technique for me, and there are no good alternate paths. Shiba Bushi (with Provincial Guard for R2) is... ok I guess, but I don't want to limit my playstyle with Void eco. Akodo Bushi is close, but lacks I-frame dodging. Yoritomo Bushi with Veiled Menace is oddly enough the best I could think of, but Mantis is 'meh' and everything else other than the techniques are shit.

So yeah, I'm kinda-sorta expecting some sort of spoonfeeding here, because I can't really see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even tho I'm the guy who made a fuckin war fan bushi work.

>>52025210
>I know all the schools and kata
Doesn't sound like you've read the core book kata yet to me, otherwise you'd be able to come back with something specific to polearms, and the schools it works with.

In any case, I'm going to say ... Shinjo Bushi.

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crane... 1 ... 2... 3.... shouts to ya face
also: who needs clans if you can play a thunder deck kek
oh wait i´m a lil late to the party i guess heh?

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>>52025314
>you'd be able to come back with something specific to polearms, and the schools it works with

That's my problem. Nothing works with polearms. The polearm-specific katas are all shit (well, the single one in the core book), and there are no schools that boost my polearm needs. I thought someone would be smarter, but apparently, nobody could make a naginata character work and the answer to my question is effectively "take whatever you want and use a naginata with it".

It's kinda sad, but hey, I would lie if I said that I had high expectations.

>Shinjo Bushi

I want a little more offensive power than that.

>>52025617
>I want a little more offensive power than that.
Not a whole lot of choice, given the extensive requirements you've put down.

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>>52025617
>The polearm-specific katas are all shit (well, the single one in the core book)
Nah, bruh. That's just you.

>>52006104
No spider no buy

>>52026405
So long, and thanks for all the taint.

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>>52025793

Luckily for me, my GM is abandoning his idea to run a 4th edition game. Looks like everyone in the party is thinking about odd character conceptions, not just me.

>>52005933
I don't understand why would you play L5R if you're gonna play Mantis.

>>52025210
Utaku Mounted Infantry; chosen weapon: Polearms.

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>>52005933
Thats a weird way to spell Oriole.

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>>52027352

Now this is a good tip... I totally forgot that the UMI can spec to polearms too. Thanks anon.

>>52025210
>i-frame dodging
seriously? how do you sleep at night, knowing that you're the trash of the internet

>>52027601

I drink a cup of Wardenfag tears before going to sleep.

>>52006104
HAHA, GET FUCKED MANTIS

HERP DERP ILL HOLD THE EMPIRE HOSTAGE IN ITS HOUR OF NEED AND THERE WILL BE NO CONSEQUENCES LMAO

JUST A WORSE KNOCKOFF OF TORTOISE

SUCK IT

>>52027663
Consequences are for normal people, not Yoritomo (Mighty is he).

>>52007276
>ninja keyword.
Silly anon, ninja don't exi

>>52005933
I've heard that Mantis is the obnoxious developer favorite faction.

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>>52027880

They aren't really obnoxious... just feel redundant and forced. Mantis stuff tends to be pretty good (their fics are surprisingly high quality when compared to other L5R stories), but somewhat... I dunno how to put it... tiring because nobody is 100% sure whether we ->need<- Mantis stuff in the first place.

>>52027880
They might have been at one point, but the marketing department forced the Spider to the front.
The Mantis have a terrible start (In that they got everything they ever wanted at the expense of everyone else and got away with it), but a few eras in and they're tolerable as a clan. It still sucks that they snatched up all of those minor clan.

>>52005933
Played the game about 4 times, 3 different groups. Never had any fun. Whats with this game and no fun allowed must be 100% historically accurate weebs?

>>52027976
I always felt that people enjoyed complaining about the Mantis more than they actually disliked them.

>>52028072
Nobody knows, since the game hasn't billed itself as historically accurate for over 2 decades.

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>>52028072

The setting brings this out from people. Try to find a group that goes maximum OC donut steel.

>>52028074

Yeah, this is certainly the case, especially latter into the game.

>>52026405
Good, the Spider are cancer.

>>52025617
Just use Otaku Mounted Infantry school. Sure, it takes a while before it gets going but when it does it does. Another thing you want is any kata that boosts Initiative and the Quick advantage so you can stance dance.

This basically requires that you go ahead of your opponent to work, hence why I recommend going as high as possible on initiative. On your first turn you adopt the Full Defense stance to prevent yourself from getting hit. On your next turn you delay your turn until all opponents have gone first, and then attack in Full Attack. next turn you don't delay and go back into Full Defense. Rinse and repeat while being the worst kind of asshole there is.

>>52028072
I've been in three groups (two of which I'm still in) and none of them have been like that. If anything there's too high a concentration of memes.

>>52023425

If FFG does the "stupid dice" thing they did for Star Wars, I can honestly say that that won't be a reason for not running the new edition for my group. I just wouldn't buy the books.

>>52026755
What a non-surprise that you don't actually have a game after all that gesticulating.

>>52023816
It's interesting that the FFG forums are still discussing whether there will be a reboot or not.

>>52030344

I would avoid stance dancing if possible. It is not really a fighting style suitable for my character concept.

>>52031701

Jokes on you, the game is on, just not with 4th edition. The GM is now divided between going 1th edition (in which case I can go Akodo Bushi because there will be no difference whatsoever) or homebrew 5th edition (in which case I'm fairly certain I can get what I want from the 200+ katas).

I hope for 1st edition. That's an edition I've played only once, and for a meager two or three sessions.

>>52028072
>>52028147
Historically innacurrate is fine but l5rs innacurracy is so insufferable and borderline racist it drives me crazy. Worse, it's not even innacurrate in a cool or fun way, just autistic and boring

>>52032619

http://johnwickpresents.com/books/blood-honor/

>>52033023
Is this supposed to inspire something in me besides fear and revulsion?

>>52028147
22 years, at least.

>>52032542
>the game is on, just not with 4th edition.
Sure it is, anon.
>Jokes on you
The joke is on all of us, pretending not-so-subtle /vg/ tier trolling was a genuine request for character builds.

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>>52033207
>the game is on, just not with 4th edition.
>Sure it is, anon.

Hell I hope so. Don't jinx my game, anon.

>a genuine request for character builds

Welp. My request went down right in the drain, so yeah, I'm not really having second thoughts here about abandoning 4th ed.

>>52038899
>My request went down right in the drain
You waffle stomped it right down the drain, right from the start, mate.

>>52026790
I dunno, playing a peasant among a bunch of hoidy toidy nobles can be fun sometimes, right? It's like playing a ronin, but more shamefu.

>>52039366
So there's why you might play a monk or Togashi, but what about Mantis?

>>52006181
Mantis is a garbage clan with a garbage backstory. I can't even fathom how anyone could like them.

>>52039489
Pirate flavoured folk heroes? I don't know.

>>52039366
Mantis are also nobility. I don't know what you're trying to say. In fact, since Mantis are Major Clan instead of Minor Clan, they're even more noble than other samurai.

>which clan is best
As someone who knows very little about the setting and its history, and only played one session, the answer to this question is obviously Crab

>>52040117
Nonsense. It's Kenku.

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Spider bump. I will miss you, Susumou Family.

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>>52006104
Welp, since the Mantis aren't an option, this makes choosing a lot easier. Time to man the wall!

Does anyone happen to have a copy of Way of the Unicorn that doesn't have page 31 blacked out?

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>>52053559
I can't upload the whole thing, but here's the page.

>>52053865
Thanks, exactly what I needed

So why do people like the Mantis again? They stole the Unicorn's gimmick and then AEG turned the Unicorn into little more than the Mongol Horde because they're fucking retarded. Not to mention that the reason the Mantis became a major clan is because Yoritomo threw a bitchfit and threatened to doom the empire because he felt that duty wasn't a compelling enough reason to fight the shadowlands. NOT TO MENTION that the Mantis as a major clan destroyed 3 superior minor clans.

>>52051797
>>52055819
Oh hey, I just got that game ever so recently.

So, let's assume that I have to take four different Artisan/Games/Perform/Lore/Craft Skill for my character at Rank 3 (each). What should I take that is actually useful? The character is a bushi, and the fluff-choices (Dancing and Poetry) are already in.

>>52060030
I'd pick between Games: Go, Artisan: Painting, Perform: Oratory, Acting, Calligraphy

>>52060030

Definitely either Go or Shogi, so you have a way to occupy yourself in between court sessions and whatnot. Very respectable for a Bushi, since you can claim they show a strategic acumen that is useful in battle.

Some military lore skills could also be useful. History, for talking about strategic precedents, Bushido if you're very honor driven. Heraldry, for identifying people on the field. All very honorable and useful things for a bushi to study.

>>52060161
I need to find myself a Shogi set and teach myself how to play the dang game...

>>52060030
Calligraphy is said to be good for swordsmen as it teaches control and strength of wrist

Shogi or Go are good for Bushi because they emulate/teach battlefield tactics

>>52060177
>Learning actual weeb board games

Good fucking luck.

Hey, try to learn Mahjong, tell us how THAT goes :^)

>>52060189
>>52060125
Calligraphy is also used for decoding/writing cyphers so it has practical use

>>52060030
Poetry, Calligraphy, Shogi, Lore: Military o Lore: Bushido or Lore: Heraldry

>>52060232
If you actually get the Cipher emphasis, you're assumed to have knowledge of at least one of your clan's ciphers. Useful in court, since courtiers are one of the most frequent users of such things (After shugenja, who use them for all of their spells).

>>52060125
>>52060161
>>52060189

Thanks, but "quasi-artisan" Skill like Calligraphy and Acting are out of question. I need the Macro Skills. Lore: Bushido is already in, so I guess I will take Lore: Heraldry (good idea btw) and Games: Shogi, leaving only two more.

>>52060263
Oh I see, so it must specifically be artisan?

Gardening and Bonsai. If it's good enough for Mr. Miyagi it's good enough for you.

>>52060263
Calligraph and Acting actually count as artisan and perform skills for the purposes of effects related to those skills.

>>52060263
Poetry, for writing your death poem
Bonsai, for spiritual cultivation

>>52060289

Well, I'm open for any of the Macro Skills. Was thinking about Craft: Weaponsmithing and/or Craft: Explosives, but my character's Int is only 2 so I couldn't get much use out of those.

>>52060296

I need the Skills for their Rank 3 Mastery Abilities.

>>52060300

I already have Poetry. Bonsai... hmmm... maybe.

>>52060356
Macro skills don't have mastery abilities.

>>52060356
See >>52060370
No artisan skill has mastery benefits

Acting has a 3,5, and 7
Calligraphy has a 5
Courtier has a 3,5, 7
Divination has a 5
Etiquette has a 3,5 7
So on and so forth

http://lasthaiku.wikidot.com/high-skills

>>52060370

They have in my gaming group. They grant +3 Insight, plus Skills cost 1 point less, so Macro Skills are good for Insight rocketing. 4 xp for 6 Insight is good, and I need 22 Insight (four Rank 3 Macro Skills) for my next Insight Rank, and I barely have the 16 xp (I have 18) for the stunt.

>>52060516
>Help me powergaming with my dms house rules

I do not have an image sufficient to display my disgusting.

>>52060516
That's disgustingly imbalanced.

>>52060552
>powergaming

I'm playing a Seppun Guardsman. I simply can't do powergaming at this point.

>>52060578

Well, it sure makes Skills worth a damn for every possible build.

>>52060623
>I am one of the elite highly trusted and valuable guards of the Emperor
>I can't power game!

I hate you more with every post
>>52060677
Is what the GM was thinking I'm sure, but here we go with Johnny Noballs taking advantage

>>52060688

Dude, Seppun Guardsman is the single shittiest bushi school in the whole game. Even the Suzume Bushi is leagues above it. You have to go, like crazy-meta to not make it utterly useless.

I don't know why the anon wants to increase his Insight rank. All the Seppun Techniques are trash desu.

>>52060743
No?
They're not the best, but you can pull off some crazy shit with a seppun, especially at high ranks. They're geared towards defending the Emperor, but the ability to practically negate lies, stealth, and subterfuge in general is not shitty at all. Adding honor to attack and damage rolls when you have high honor is like adding +1k1 to attack and damage rolls, and once you get SAA and potentially a free SA (Which can explicitly used to attack), it can get insane.

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>>52060688
>Johnny Noballs taking advantage

To be fair he deserves a medal for playing a seppun guardsman, for reasons detailed here >>52060743

>>52060743
Seppun Guardsman is fine if you're working with your party. Or if you're working with a major Imperial, which is usually the only time a Seppun would even be in the area anyway.

>>52060805
>the ability to practically negate lies, stealth, and subterfuge in general is not shitty at all

Too bad they can't do this. They can only pierce disguises/illusions with Rank 3 (only after succeeding on a roll), and gain some extra unkept dice at Rank 1 in some very specific situations.

>and once you get SAA

At Rank 4... And only for Samurai weapons. Welp. Then you still need the Void and the high Honor to pull it.

It says a lot that the ultimate technique of the school is to die instead of someone else... That is like admitting that you are an expandable waste of human flesh. It isn't even Order of Chikai level tanking or Hantei Bushi tier "you die but someone is getting fucked".

>>52060890
Rank 4 SAA w/ Samurai weapons is pretty standard.

If they're actually doing their job (Guarding imperials and watching out for threats), they do it better than anyone else, and their Techniques reflect that. They're Imperial guardsmen, not front-line soldiers.

But Techniques are not the be-all end-all of a character, anyway. Traits and skills are more important. A Seppun with good skills and stats will beat another bushi with lesser skills, even if that bushi has a relevant technique.

>>52060890
Their rank 5 is better than Chikai in a way, since they can use it no matter how fucked up they are, can use it from twice as far away, can take any Simple Action afterwards, and it doesn't take away from their School Rank, which is relevant for a few things.

>>52060890
>That is like admitting that you are an expandable waste of human flesh.
All samurai are expendable, and someone with really high honor (Say, a rank 5 Seppun Guardsman) buys into that idea.

>>52061039
>Rank 4 SAA w/ Samurai weapons is pretty standard.

So much only two other schools have it as far as I'm aware (Hiruma Bushi and Kakita Bushi).

>If they're actually doing their job (Guarding imperials and watching out for threats), they do it better than anyone else

I'm not even sure if they can do this properly, because they have to dumb-spend Void or have Rank 5. Other than these, they have +1k1 against surprises... yipi ka yay.

>A Seppun with good skills and stats will beat another bushi with lesser skills, even if that bushi has a relevant technique.

I highly doubt this, unless the seppun has some crazy skill advantage (like 5-6 ranks).

>>52061232
>So much only two other schools have it as far as I'm aware (Hiruma Bushi and Kakita Bushi).
And a few that have it at rank 3. Samurai Weapons is a very bland and normal SAA.

>Other than these, they have +1k1 against surprises
And a constant free action to see through disguises and illusions. In the presence of a ranking Imperial, they don't even spend Void for it. It's constant.

>I highly doubt this, unless the seppun has some crazy skill advantage (like 5-6 ranks).
Think about what most combat Techniques actually give you. +1k0 to attacks? You know what else gives you +1k0 to attacks? A single rank in the relevant skill. A single rank in the relevant stat gives you an entire 1k1. A seppun with one more Agility and the same skill beats out almost all other Bushi, regardless of their Techniques. Techniques give you an edge if you're otherwise equal, but they don't overpower skills and stats.

>>52061039
Here on /tg/ all Rank 4 SAA schools are garbage. The only good schools are Rank 3 SAA schools.

>>52061090
Chiaki doesn't take away from School Rank either because it is IR6.

>>52061108
Emphasis is on "waste of human flesh".

>>52061295
Chikai is rank 5 and builds on a different alternate rank, which has already eaten your "counts as a school rank". A Shiba Bushi in the Order of Chikai is a rank 4 Shiba Bushi.

>>52061313
Also Chikai's effect hinges on making a Reflex/Defense roll at TN 25. Not that anyone at that rank would consistently fail such a low TN roll, but it's still possible.

>>52061294
Truly, playing at exactly IR3 with no hope of gaining ranks is the best way to play.

>>52061289
>And a few that have it at rank 3.

Samurai-only rank 3 SAA is ok. But at rank 4? Come on...

>And a constant free action to see through disguises and illusions.

Outstanding. You have Acting and some magic covered (not all, because shapeshifters can still fuck up your day) provided that you can make the roll. Wow.

>Think about what most combat Techniques actually give you. +1k0 to attacks?

+1k0 to attack rolls is like a secondary bonus at Rank 1. Things can be more interesting, especially when it comes to rank 3/4. Especially since outdoing another bushi with skill/trait is hard at rank 1.

>>52061294
Ikoma Lion's Shadow is ok.

>>52061435
Shapeshifting is a magical disguise, still covered by the effect, and a TN 25 Perception/Investigation test is not hard.

Things can get more interesting, but they generally don't, and again, don't beat out skills and stats.

A Mirumoto can get an entire +3k0 if you attack them first (At rank 4)
A Hida can daze you once and gets more armor reduction.
A Kakita gains a bonus to initiative and gets +2k0 IF he's faster. If he spends an entire turn charging up in Center Stance, he gets +1k1.
An Akodo gets a +1k0 IF you declare a raise or it's turn one, and adds his Honor rank to one attack per round. He can also ignore bonuses to armor TN from stances.
And so on. None of these outweigh having a higher Trait and/or skill. Some of them emulate it under certain conditions, but none of them are better than just being better.

Hate to ruin the party, but does anyone have ideas for two more useful Artisan/Craft/Games, Lore/Perform Skills?

Lore: Heraldry and Games: Shogi were good ideas, but I need two more. I'm thinking about Lore: History and Perform: Oratory, but I'm unsure how useful these are in actual play.

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>>52061568
But anon, anyone can beat a bushi with higher Traits and Skills. Even a Shiba Artisan can kill a Matsu Berserker no problem from a +1 Agility and +3 Weapon Skill advantage. Saying that the Seppun Guardsman is good because it can do something everyone else can is... and odd choice of argument ,so to speak.

>>52061651
Indeed they can. Which is my point. Techniques are not all-important, and having "bad" Techniques doesn't mean shit in the face of having bad stats or skills. The only real exception is SAA, because that directly changes the action economy.

>>52061651
The Seppun Guardsman is good at what they do, and what they do is stay in the capital and protect the big cheese.
Doing something completely outside of their wheelhouse is going to make their abilities less good, yes, but the same is true for everyone. A Kakita bushi trying to swing a tetsubo while wearing heavy armor is going to look "bad" next to a Hida or Daidoji.

>>52005933
Here's a permanent link to the new L5R Discord:

https://discord.gg/nvVX9Wb

Features a couple bots,
Looking for group section,
Lots of resources,
And morrreeee!

>>52061747
>The Seppun Guardsman is good at what they do, and what they do is stay in the capital and protect the big cheese.

This is a pretty shit-tier thing to be good at, if you ask me.

>>52061915
Good thing nobody asked you, then.

So which edition is best in your guys' opinion. I've been thinking about running a game and want to know before I commit to reading any rule book

>>52063950
4th. Some people prefer 1st edition though.
3rd edition is broken in that there are a lot of really OP possibilities. 2nd edition is broken in that everything sucks and is underpowered and it's not fun. The D20 abomination shouldn't even cross your mind as an option.

>>52063950
4th edition has the closest thing to balance. It's still possible to find traps, bad choices, and dead end options, but there are fewer things that win l5r forever.

1st edition has the strongest sense of setting. It can be stifling for players used to other types of games. 4e will tell you to eventually disappear a player's character at the hands of their enemies if they choose to ignore the morals of Rokugani society, while 1e will tell you to give them penalties to anything formal and ritualised (iaijutsu, tea ceremony, etc) if they don't at least try to follow etiquette and Bushido perfectly in character.

>>52060213

Zawa zawa zawa...

>>52005933
I don't suppose anyone has the Ryoko Owari book for the RPG? My 4e group is headed for theri on the way to Crab lands and they hope to pick up a boat and travel down the river.

Also looking for interesting boat encounters with a good mix between rp and combat.

>>52061747
Except, as already noted, they aren't very good at it.
They're good, but certainly not the best bodyguards. Thier detection skills are strong, but again, not the top.
Also, the idea of area of expertise is funny.
The Hida area of expertise is very broad, absorbing damage. Everyone can use that. Couple it with Heavy Armour (which most non court situations see) and we are pretty set.
Kakita are great at speed and dueling. Everyone wants speed. Dueling is ubiquitous.
Hell, Isawa Shugenja are good at Magic. As though that doesn't cover 80% of what a Shugenja does in game (as opposed to all the shit they alledgedly do in setting).
So, noting an Imperial School is good (far from best, and not at all parallel to Otomo) at a very narrow situation does no favours for arguing that the school is well designed.
It's on par with minor clan twaddle. Which is pathetic.

>>52069224
>Except, as already noted, they aren't very good at it.
Only if you expect them to show up with something less than overwhelming force for any situation.

Now we all know what the best Great Clan is Unicorn
But who is the best Minor Clan?

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>>52074896
>But who is the best Minor Clan?

Not even a question.

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Game got rebooted into a Crab clan game in the year 1000, anyone got two cents on what they should and shouldn't do?
Any two cents on how I should make them suffer as their GM?

>>52076360
Have them catch the taint and suffer degradation and shame as they slowly degenerate into madness and mutation.

>>52076360
There's not a whole lot of metaplot going on around then, with things being very status quo for the next century or so.
The Hiruma Bushi School is still lost, but their revised Scout School has been founded with the help of the Shinjo. The Crab relationship with the Unicorn is formed, and they're mostly friendly.

>>52076360
>Crab clan game in the year 1000

Literally nothing happens with the Crab during this time, so have the PCs build the wall. Like, honest-to-goodness drudgery and back-breaking labor in a seemingly infinite dose. No fighting, no intrigue, no nothing, just building that big-ass wall.

And when they finally finish it, let the Shadowlands mount a small attack that instantly penetrates the whole thing, tearing it down to the foundation in the process.

Then rinse and repeat.

>>52076360
Being a slow decade, other clans (Crane and Scorpion, mostly) are going to start questioning whether the Crab are actually necessary, and whether all of those resources going into the Wall really need to go there. There's lots of room for inter-clan bickering in a slow Crab decade.

>>52076563
>>52076625
Wow, those are some boring fuckin' ideas senpai. There's no metaplot there, I could do literally anything I want.

>>52076739

Being Crab Clan in the 1000's is all about being bored out of your mind to the point where you end up shitting all over your sacred duty just to get some action.

Have you ever played a court-based courtier game with a shitload of talking and negotiation as a focus? How did it go?

>>52077152
So ... pretty much every Winter Court game?

>>52079146

Yes, I just want some stories and tips.

>>52079628
http://wintercourt.l5r.com/

Well, here's how the 2014 game went.

>>52079772
Also;

http://winter-court.com/wc5/index.php

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>>52076847
Nah. Before Kisada, it's about every other clan thinks your duty could be performed by ashigaru, that your calls for greater and more supplies are just Crab being overly dramatic, and knowing that you're constantly being fucked over in trade deals and political relations by samurai who scoff at the idea of even visiting near the wall.

Is the Otomo school pretty solid for a courtier? The Seppun Shugenja school looks interesting but cripplingly specialized.

>>52083953
Yes. Don't let PCs play imperials unless you're ready for it. They're either unexpectedly OP, or weak outside their narrow niche.

>>52084017

I was thinking about running an Imperial game, but some of the schools throw me. Seppun bush only seem remotely useful if your opposition are a bunch of illusion magic using Scorpion shugenja.

I have no idea what to do with the Miya Herald school.

>>52084290
The Seppun aren't even Yojimbo (That's what the Emerald Champion and whatever famous yojimbo other Imperials can dredge up are for). They're guards. They're built to guard things (Caravans, palaces, specific rooms in said palaces) in large numbers.

>>52084290
Give everyone free Different School advantage for great clan schools, three ranks of status, and go from there.

>>52023425
The only thing I want out of a new edition is ronin rules that don't make them utter garbage in play.

>>52084479
Use the generic ronin school, with all ronin techniques available as alternate paths and no chance of missing a school rank. Don't forget they have advanced schools. Two. More than some great clan families.

>>52084355

They seem to have most of the usual bushi stuff. The Rank 1 ability is somewhat situational but has some utility, Rank 2 is okay, Rank 3 is incredibly narrow, Rank 4 is pretty typical bushi school stuff, and Rank 5 is pretty narrow in focus.

That's 3/5 that are usable in comparison to other Bushi schools. Seems kinda mediocre.

>>52084357

Might have to go with that.

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>>52059651
my bro.

>>52067077
da fuq?


i have a quest for you, /tg/

if i knew a certain rare L5R art was in color, do you think it can be found?

it's the missing panel-color from the 1st edition RPG book....the Naga.
it's not great, but who the hell has it?

>>52084479
Go back to 3e and have the most OP school in the game, the Ronin Duelist, aka the Assassin. As written it can get unlimited dice for studying an opponent and per AEG studying can be done outside of combat. Every two and half minutes of study gets you 10k0 at R2 or 10k10 at R4. Once you break 10k10 on your roll every die becomes a Free Raise. And on damage rolls once you break 10k10 they convert to +5 Damage/die.

They did fix it in 3ER where it was limited to a number of dice equal to your Insight Rank.

>>52085560
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only color pages in 1e Core are the Great Clan Pages. 1e Way of the Naga, like all the Way of books did not have any color pages outside of the cover.

>>52085560
>da fuq?
Shutsudohin carrying portable hwacha. Rockets courtesy of the Agasha/Tamori.

What is a good clan and bushi class for a fist time player for the RPG?

what's some of the stereotypes or tropes associated with the Centipede clan/Moshi family?

>>52086525
Willing to learn 7 basic guidelines and eventually watch your GM play them against each other? Akodo bushi.

Want to play a foreigner to the empire's ways? Moto bushi.

Don't care about any of that 'culture' stuff, but not quite lacking etiquette so badly that it will get you killed? Hida bushi.

>>52086918
http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Moshi_family

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>>52087230
Are the Moshi pretty much pic related?

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>>52006104
Can anyone give me a quick rundown on this game?

>>52090097
You mean the LCG in the picture? That picture and the fact that it's going to be released at GenCon is all the information we have, and the picture is from a "trusted source", so there's a possibility that it might not even be legitimate.

If you mean L5R in general, it's fantasy samurai. Honor actually means something in the setting, as does etiquette, and the overwhelming supernatural reinforcement of tradition (The gods that founded the empire, ancestors, elemental spirits, fortunes in charge of different aspects, ect) means that things stagnate a lot. Parts of the setting are taken from parts of China, Korea, Mongolia, and Greece, but a lot of it is just straight made up (Or made up by someone who thought he was an expert at Japanese culture because he saw half a samurai movie once). If you're a stickler for historical accuracy, stay away. Really far away. This game will make you angry.

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>>52086525

Daidoji Iron Warrior if you want to go full fool-proof. Akodo Bushi if you don't like the setting. Utaku Battle Maiden if you want a friendly learning curve. Toku Bushi if you want to give everyone the middle finger.

If you are going first then avoid Hida Bushi, Matsu Berserker, and Shiba Bushi. These three are good, but require experience to be played effectively.

>>52090097

It is like pic related, but as an RPG game. It is hard to pin down any better, because consistency is far from being the game's strong side.

>>52011173
Nobushi main pls go

>>52061747
>>52061915
>>52069224
Currently playing as a "ronin" who is actually a Seppun Guardsman in deep ass cover (pretty cool, only the dm and I know). We're low insight (rank 2) right now, and he always performs quite well. I've gone heavy into Void and reflexes on him. However I picked the class purely for fluff, and I've read this opinion before. I'm actually kind of impressed with how well the school can work when you use your void points wisely. Now, I'm under no illusion that it's a very good school, but this is a very fun character for RP purposes.

>>52090249
That picture is from International Games Festival in Cannes, France. It is legit as it gets.

>>52090583
>Akodo Bushi if you don't like the setting
>avoid Hida Bushi
Eh?

>>52093008

The Akodo Bushi can be completely fucked over by the setting because all that "muh honor" and "Lion Clan fuckyeah" shit. Playing an Akodo Bushi is a sure way to make the GM reinvent the setting because of your constant whining.

With the Hida Bushi you must know which hit to take and what to leave for the others. You can't really tank everything and look good like the Daidoji Iron Warrior. You must know how combat works and have a good feel of the damage variables. It can be also punishing to RP.

>>52093149
Somehow I get the feeling we have differing fundamental assumptions about and perspectives on the setting.

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>>52086255

that is fucking metal.

sadly, metal = / = L5R...

>>52089833
no,
Moshi are angry feminists who also worship the sun. recently, they have realized they are in a NotJapan, so they have become more Kawaii ans Kaeki so they can actually husbando....

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>>52085630
this pic exists somewhere in color.

all these panel paintings were in color....

>>52097889
>sadly, metal = / = L5R...
None of what I said does not exist in l5r.

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>>52097889

>>52097987
What book is it even in? That is the first time I have seen that art and outside of a couple of adventures and the Tomb of Iuchiban boxed set my 1e collection is complete.

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>>52098286

>i restrain the back of my hand

i was saying METAL, aka the feeling of pic related is not present in Rokugan...

child, get reading comprehension....

>>52098469

Naga army expansion book is the only known location, and it's obviously a grey-scaled image put in a black-and-white book.

>>52098769
Ah, so not in 1e, it was Clan War minis game book. I did figure out the artist for you, Brian Snoddy. Try asking him via email or something.

>>52098421
>>52098754

better...

see, the Rokugani feeling behind such pic would be one of pride, one of defiance, one of calling out to the ancestors...

the feeling of "Metal as Fuck" is our european interpretation oh this pic...which, was drawn by a metal fan.

it is hard to seperate in-setting cultural elements from our own feelings about those same elements from our point of view.

>>52098754
And I disagree, kiddo.
See
>>52098421
>>52098444
>>52098461
while you work on your own reading comprehension.

>>52098896

projected norwegian much?

>>52098849
>see, the Rokugani feeling behind such pic
Wouldn't matter a damn bit, because no RL observer is in the fictional setting of Rokugan.

>>52093589

Obviously, because both of us have been in the "Akodo Bushi situation" and thus both of our GMs have reinvented the setting in some way or form.

I'm fairly sure that only first players/GMs play Rokugan as it is. Everyone else branched off after a while.

So I'm making a Crab bushi (still can't decide on Hida or Hiruma), would the advantage "Friend of the Element" be any good for a Bushi?

I'm thinking of picking the water ring for the Strength and Perception. Would Trait rolls come up often in a game?

>>52102696
>Would Trait rolls come up often in a game?
Almost never, unless you're a shugenja or monk and can initiate them yourself.

>>52102884
I mixed up Friend Of The Elements (trait roll bonus) with Chosen By The Oracles. (ring roll bonus)

It's still uncommon, but possible in mundane situations.

>Trait Rolls represent situations when the characters in question are attempting to complete a task based solely on their innate abilities, either mental or physical, without any benefit from training. This is more commonly a factor for physical tasks, such as holding one’s breath or holding onto a moving wagon.

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Best clan, coming through.

>>52102696
Consider Elemental Blessing instead. It pays for itself once you've got a few increases in, and then it's nothing but (Mild, admittedly) savings from there.

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>>52106220

Isn't it, like, a no-clan that gets wiped out at every monday and friday?

Does anyone remember/have the homebrew ruleset that retooled all of the skills in 4e so that their mastery abilities were more balanced across each of the weapon skills, and more interesting/flavorful?

>>52108119
Can you be a little more specific?

>>52102696
If I go the Hiruma path would sniper/knife fighter be a better build than a slayer/berserker build?

Or should I just go for a typical Hida heavy armor and tetsubo wall?

>>52108900

Falcon's Strike + Sniper is a very good combination. If you go Berserker + Slayer you WILL ruin somebody's day. Both builds are viable, a lot more so than going typical Hida (you will shit the bed as a Hiruma Bushi because the School can't go typical Hida at all).

>>52108900
Slayzerker is really good. Knife fighter is pretty much only good if you're going Crab Ninja. Sniper is a solid choice for Hiruma Bushi, but Falcon's Strike is a better choice for the Hiruma Scout because they already get SAA with bows. Getting both is an option, of course, but then you lose SAA with non-bow weapons and a School rank(Which isn't always relevant, but it can be).

>>52109099
>Both builds are viable, a lot more so than going typical Hida (you will shit the bed as a Hiruma Bushi because the School can't go typical Hida at all).
So the Hida Busi school isn't as good as the Hiruma school?

>>52110339
I think he means that you really shouldn't be trying to tank as a Hiruma Bushi. The Hida school is really solid (Pun intended).

>>52110393
oh I wasn't planning on tanking with the Hiruma. I was saying that I didn't know either to go with the Hida tank or a Hiruma archer or Hiruma axe berserker builds

>>52106946
>no-clan
Whatever that means.
>(nearly) wiped out
Like that matters for whether they're cool or not.

>>52076266

That's not a Minor Clan. That's a Mantid right there.

>>52006104

That boxart looks fucking cool FWIW

>>52013595

>The endless string of THIS WILL END ALL THINGS, MINUTES TO MIDNIIIIIGHT!!!! bullshit

Please anon, never read comic books

>>52110668
>I was saying that I didn't know either to go with the Hida tank or a Hiruma archer or Hiruma axe berserker builds

Ah, okay, I thought you wanted to play like a Hida Bushi with a Hiruma Bushi. Otherwise, the three are roughly on the same level, but the Hiruma paths need more time to truly take off while the Hida is ok as it is.

>>52059651
In all fairness....the guy who ruled over the entire area which created almost everything we think about when we think of samurai did something like that twice.
Also, characters in L5R only held onto their honor right up until the story requires them to not do so, literally regardless of which Clan we're talking about.

I never really understood why people got so attached to specific Clans when the one consistent part story was all of them breaking their own rules at LEAST once, usually far more by the end of the game.

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>>52120162
>Also, characters in L5R only held onto their honor right up until the story requires them to not do so, literally regardless of which Clan we're talking about.

Well, you gotta admit, the setting does make a point about "honor is stronger than steel" being only a cool saying with little to no real substance.

>>52120285
I always felt that there should have been a stat that represented Face, since despite it being emphasized it wasn't mechanically in the game at all.
Honor would be personal integrity, Glory personal fame, Status personal rank, and Face being how everyone ELSE sees you since that is significantly more important in Rokugani culture given that 90% of political acts mentioned about honor in-game are actually about Face.

Either that or just fess up and give a bunch of important NPC's high Status but average to low Honor at best, but nope; gotta have huge stats on everything all their important card game donuts have.

>>52120323
That's not a terrible idea actually.
It's true that a lot of the "going to war over Honor" bits in-setting have nothing to do with honor and everything to do with preserving their reputation and avoiding loss of Face.
Actually, trying to put people on the defensive so they're tied up avoiding losses of Face is pretty much the entire Scorpion political strategy come to think of it.

>>52120323

I always thought that Glory/Infamy is supposed to represent your Face. So if you lose Face (like shitting all over your dishonorable lord), you gain Infamy (for being rebellious) and not lose Honor.

>>52120480
Sort of.

Loss of face brings an increase in Glory losses and reduction to gains, as people actively attempt to forget about you.

Infamy exists to stand in for Glory gains related to criminal or dishonourable acts.

So following your dishonourable lord's wishes in ways that other people notice will gain you Infamy. Breaking ties with your dishonourable lord in a dishonourable way would also gain you Infamy, but being truly honourable about it would not, unless the tale is told somewhat differently than the true events.

>>52120480
No, Glory is just how famous you are, which is completely different from Face.
It's actually in the rules that you can loose Glory by not doing glorious stuff for example, which the complete opposite of how Face actually works.
Glory is your fame; the higher Glory you have the easier you are to be recognized by name. Face would be your reputation; rather then how famous you are it's more about how much respect you should be getting, and what OTHER people think of you.

Example; a guy can beat his wife, abuse peasants, butcher people for the slightest insult, break his word, and basically be the most honorless son of a bitch ever, but as long as he does all that shit IN PRIVATE and doesn't get caught, his Face is good. Almost every action ever taken to recover your "honor" is actually about recovering your Face. Just like in Western culture nobody gives a flying fuck about your "private" sense of honor and integrity in Bushido or weather you act internally consistent with your moral code; they care about how you APPEAR to be, not how you actually ARE.

We know Face exists in Rokugan and works the exact same way because they talk about right there in the core book and emphasize it's importance.
But of course, once again the disgustingly flawed understanding of John Wick ruins something otherwise easily fixable and simple to understand.

>>52120996

But... your example is for losing Honor, not for gaining Infamy. You can lose Honor but not lose Face (like your example), but I don't think you can lose Face and not gain Infamy (or lose Glory) - thus Glory/Infamy is a good measurement of your Face.

>>52120645
A good example of this would be a Lord ordering three of his samurai to do something dishonorable for political reasons.
Samurai #1 does it, Samurai #2 commits seppuku in protest, Samurai #3 doesn't do it and stays alive.

Samurai #1 has lost some personal Honor because he broke Bushido, but he's gained some Face because he's saving his Lord's ass. You could argue that he's gained some Glory too depending on the type of deed.
Samurai #2 has lost some Honor for disobeying his Lord, but he's regained a lot of Face and some Honor by committing seppuku in protest (which actually is fairly rare), and maybe even some Glory after death since his act was way more intense and a lot more selfless.
Samurai #3 has gained Honor for sticking to Bushido, but has lost Face because he's basically being disobedient and now it's known he'll say "no" to his Lord, which is pretty shitty for a samurai. In addition he gains no Glory to to his inaction.

Finally, if Samurai #3 tells on his Lord then the Lord suffers a HUGE loss of Face because now everyone knows not only is he a bastard but he lets his underlings take a fall for it (Face is generally far more important the more important you are).

>>52121084
No, it's loosing Honor in L5R.
Which makes it a shit example because the only rule L5R's setting has is that it breaks it's own fucking rules all the time.
They say how Face works RIGHT FUCKING THERE in the core book, and it is neither how Glory OR Infamy work, so ya can't even use the "not muh Realm Japan" excuse.

>>52121086
So, if I'm getting your example right, basically the Lord generally does everything not to loose Face, but it matters less to individual samurai.

>>52005933
>ctrl+f Fox
>phrase not found

FOX CLAN BEST CLAN

>>52121115
Yeah, basically.
A samurai's duty is to his Lord, but when his Lord is his chief feudal lord (such as a Daimyo, or in this case Clan Champion or Emperor), then his actual duty is basically "exist and support the family so I can call on you in times of war".
Therefore their "duty" they fulfill automatically just by being alive, which means they tend to focus on Face more.

Oh, another good example using L5R-specific characters.
Hida Yakamo would have high Glory because EVERYONE knows who he is.
His Face would be atrocious however because everyone ALSO knows that he's an honorless douchebag.

>>52121138
If thats the case then he would have really high Infamy, not Glory.

It's funny because the game plays around with the concept of face, by having abilities and perks that let you seem to have higher honor than you actually do, but the way it handles Honor is weird. Sometimes Honor is just how you look (face) and sometimes honor is absolutely how closely you cleave to Bushido even in private because Great Kami is watching you and knows if you're masturbating.

A Face scale, Glory/Infamy scale, and Honor ranking each should be seperate things. Face should be how honorable people PERCIEVE you to be, Glory/Infamy should be how much you are known positively/negatively, and Honor should be absolutely how honorable you actually are.

>>52121104

I know that the descriptions are not fitting, but as far as I see it, Glory/Infamy is indeed a good measurement of Face because the two are so strongly tied (if somewhat indirectly if you know what I'm saying).

Like in the examples of >>52121086:
- Samurai #1 would lose Honor but gain Glory for accomplishing the deed. Thus he ends up with worse Honor but better "Face" (via his higher Glory).
- Samurai #2 gets a little bit of both worlds.
- Samurai #3 gains Honor but also gains Infamy for being disobedient, thus getting better Honor but worse "Face" (via his newly acquired Infamy).

If Samurai #3 makes a show, then the lord will also gain Infamy for being dishonorable (and thus lose "Face").

>>52121138
More Rokugan examples.
Doji Hotury; high Glory, low Face, medium Honor. He's quite famous, but is a feckless playboy in terms of rep, but as a person he isn't particularly dishonorable, he's just not very discreet which is a lot of Face loss on his part.
Akodo Toturi; high Glory, high Honor, high Face. He's famous, keeps to his personal sense of Bushido quite well, and even when he's a ronin his situation was basically caused on a whim by the Emperor so his reputation is still pretty good, hence a lot of people flocking to him.
Bayushi Shoju; high Glory, low-to-nonexistent Honor, high Face (until the Scorpion Coup). He's famous, totally unscrupulous but good fucking luck proving it, and that's what Face is about.

>>52121183
Infamy you get by going into "negative" Glory, correct?
Literally the exact opposite of how fame of any kind BTW.
>>52121210
Another example of saving Face; developing a samurai game and pretending to understand something like Face and talk about it, but then when people point out that it's wrong you realize you had been actively defending something you weren't smart enough to know was bullshit, so you cover your ass and try to ignore to not admit how bad you fucked right up, to save Face.

AEG is it's own example here.
>>52121220
I get it; sacred cow mechanics.
Your attachment is not particularly unique or special.

>>52121267
>Infamy you get by going into "negative" Glory, correct?
No.

>If a character has both Glory and Infamy, the total Ranks should be combined to determine the likelihood that the character is recognized.

Infamy is entirely separate from Glory.

>>52121210
Wouldn't four Social stat bars be too cumbersome?

>>52121286
Status is almost a formality. I mean, max Status is literally The Emperor.
What is the ABSOLUTE highest Status you have ever gained in-game?

>>52121280
Well that's good.
Too bad it's still not how Face works.
You can have high Face without being famous. Actually, come to think of it; it might be EASIER having high Face the less famous you are because there's less intense scrutiny on your actions.

>>52121315
I'm inclined to consider face as binary, and not a status bar.

>>52121286
>be too cumbersome?
THIS IS L5R

MORE CUMBERSOME SOCIAL RULES. MOAR

>>52121324
I get that it's easier for you, but you can just go read page 44 of the core book.
It's literally the only argument I need.

>>52121299
Like....3 or 4 I think.
After that it becomes increasingly hard to justify not staying in place and doing your job which does not in any way involve doing the sorts of tasks that most L5R adventures involve.

>>52121354
Already have.

>A samurai who maintains face is a samurai who cannot be manipulated, a samurai who can deceive his enemies, a samurai who serves his clan without fail.
Face on.
>By contrast, a samurai who loses face, who loses self-control, shames both himself and, worse, his family and clan.
Face off.
>A samurai who maintains face is a samurai who cannot be manipulated, a samurai who can deceive his enemies, a samurai who serves his clan without fail.
Face restored.
>By contrast, a samurai who loses face, who loses self-control, shames both himself and, worse, his family and clan.
Face broken.

Incidentally, honour does play a part in this, as it contributes to your ability to resist intimidation, temptation and fear.

>>52121400
Hm. In that case that makes sense.
There should still actually be a mark on your sheet where you keep track of Face though; loosing it and the risk of loosing it is the cause of almost literally all samurai drama to some degree, and if you no longer have Face then there should be large social penalties.
Less people in Japan died for Honor then did for Face, and to some degree this is STILL true and public embarrassment is so strongly avoided in modern Japanese culture that it causes some serious social repression issues.

>>52121400
You can loose Face by failing at something, actually. It's not just a personal actions thing.
Like; if you said "it's okay my Lord, I got this", and you fail at it? That's loosing Face.
In fact; in Japanese the traditional greeting to someone you will be working with or who is your superior is phrased the way it is ("Please take care of me.") in reference to Face.

>>52121508
For give me for not understanding, but how is that a reference to Face?

>>52121524
"Watashi no koto o yoroshikuonegaishimasu" has a lot of meanings depending on how you want to say it; the kanji is pretty ambiguous and situation, but it's basically a formal greeting from an underling to a superior.
It's basically "Please do not waste my presence here by causing me to embarrass myself", because it is simultaneously "Please take care of me" and "please be kind to me".
The idea being that you would not insinuate that they would cause you to loose Face (which would be massively impolite) but that you would still obey them even if you did because that's just as rude.

Japanese has so many ways of saying shit without actually saying it that it's ridiculous to me. An entire language dedicated to dancing around subject matters in open conversation sometimes it seems.

>>52121508
I'm not getting your perspective on how that's different. Fucking up after claiming you can handle it is still a personal actions thing.

>>52121581
I was merely adding that in there.
An excellent and REALLY common example of loosing Face back in the day was having your school challenged by a a "sign-taker" and loosing.
Technically no Honor was lost, but holy shit did people go out of their way to remove the public embarrassment of it, which definitely included trying to commit cold-blooded murder just to cover your ass.
Musashi actually writes about it himself; sometimes they try to kill him before or after he showed up to make sure he didn't cause the school to loose Face.

>>52121653
>"sign-taker"
What?

>>52121670
Someone who takes the sign from your dojo.

>>52121678
Should probably add; after challenging the best of the dojo.

It's something I wish L5R had.

>>52121670
One of the ways a samurai would prove that they beat a dojo was by taking the dojo's sign out front of it after winning as a trophy. They were easy to replace but it basically was proof that you'd been there and that you'd won.
It wasn't standard practice or anything, but it was common enough that a lot of dojo's had a wall where they'd hang up dojo signs that they'd manage to take, basically a trophy wall.

It doesn't really come up in L5R because it seems like there's maybe one to two dojo's per family at the absolute most, with one being by far the regular norm.

>>52121691
It doesn't really work as well; I mean say you want the Bayushi dojo sign. You'd have to fight Kyuden Bayushi. All of it. Because they ALL train there.

>>52121719
I personally was always unclear on how many dojo's each Family physically had versus how much each technique was simply shared amongst multiple dojo in a single Clan.

>>52121691
>It's something I wish L5R had.
Well it wasn't in any of the one samurai movies John Wick saw decades ago and doesn't remember that well, so it's not in L5R!

>>52121719
No they don't.
http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Dojo

>>52121815
Well that means "sign-takers" at theoretically possible in Rokugan.

>>52121847
Theoretically.

>>52121709

Hmmm. This is interesting. Reminds me the game where the Kakita Master Sensei PC made every contestant in his tournament a honorary member of his dojo, so whoever won had to hand the victory back to the dojo. The Matsu dude who won circumvented this by taking the dojo's sign as a trophy, but the PC was one step ahead of him and had the sign cursed by a shugenja. The shitstorm that followed was glorious.

>>52121709
Nah, they've got lots of dojo. Actually, they have a lot more Schools than get shown too. But the lesser Schools don't have mechanics because they don't have Techniques, and the only dojo that get regular mentions are the founder dojo to the major schools and a few other important ones.