I like to think of myself as a creative kind of guy, but when

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>>51994638
You could always take the DnD/Pathfinder approach and just make spells that outright replace non-combat skills and do them better than a non-magical character who specializes in those skills.

>>51994666

Only Satan would be the type to recommend that.

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>>51994752
>TFW still waiting for the edition of DnD where magic like Invisibility, Create Food and Water, Alter Self (stealth, survival, disguise, ect) don't exist and completely invalidate non-magical classes.

>TFW it will never fucking happen.

>TFW there will never be a more reasonable game that replaces DnD as the standard go-to fantasy game.

>>51994638
Spells that aren't combat-focused are easy. Just look at something like Harry Potter.

The problem though, as other have pointed out, is if you're making magic that's not combat related, it instantly ends up being utility-related. Utility-oriented magic quickly ends up completely replacing utility SKILLS, and then you just end up with a situation where magical characters can do everything and non-magical characters are basically useless muggles.


In a balanced game, magic would be almost completely combat-oriented. In the world of videogames, most caster-type characters are dedicated crowd-control/multi-target characters, healers, or focus on buffs/debuffs, while having little to no spells that do other things.

>>51994638
>How do you come up with ideas for spells/special powers that aren't focused around combat?- 4 posts and 2 image replies shown.
How?
It's magic, think absolutely anything you wan to do or to happen and you can come up with spell for that effect.

You can observe places far and wide, have winds blow at your command to sail a ship anywhere you need to, curse your rival with increased nose hair growth, make a patch with demon whom domain is creativity and ask them to make up spells for you.

>>51994638
>How do you come up with ideas for spells/special powers that aren't focused around combat?
By reading a ton of folklore, mythology and anthropological literature on the subject of magic. Seriously, it's not like magic has not been a part of our own world and culture for fucking milenia, and in absolute majority of the time it was not connected to combat...

>>51994769
>TFW still waiting for the edition of DnD where magic like Invisibility, Create Food and Water, Alter Self (stealth, survival, disguise, ect) don't exist and completely invalidate non-magical classes.


It's basically a 3.5 only problem; or it has it the worst at least. For example, in 5e Invisibility only acts as having concealment; you still need to roll stealth to hide and stay hidden, and it gives no bonuses to those. Alter Self essentially only skips using a disguise kit.

Which is what I'd suggest to OP. Think of a thing that can be done mundanely, then replace an aspect with magic.

>>51995482
>Think of a thing that can be done mundanely, then replace an aspect with magic.

Literally the problem that like 3 people pointed out in the first replies of the topic. Doing mundane things magic leads to "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL MUGGLES ARE USELESS" syndrome.

>>51995605
Okay then, to elaborate:

You first take a mundane task, such as picking a lock.

Picking a lock takes
-a short time
-tools
-skill

So a low level "pick-lock spell" would replace one of those with magic, which one is up to you when you create the spell.

-It could open a door instantly, but you'd still need to know how to open the door and use some reagents.

-It could let you open the door without using any tools, using only the power of your mind to move the small pieces of the lock.

-It could either take a short ritual with some (possibly expandable) magical material to open a door, knowing and studying the spell replacing the need to know and study the art of picking lock.

If you don't want magic to replace skill (because in the system you are using learning a mundane skill is more investment than learning a spell) then just limit yourself replacing the other aspects.

>>51995667
What is the "Knock" spell?

>>51995681
Knock spell in 4e is a ritual that needs components and time, but replaces the need for the skill.

Which is why it's the best balanced version if you want mundane lockpicking to stay relevant.

We already know that 3.5 is caster shitfest.

In 5e there are at least no wand and bonus slots, so a wand can't replace the skillmonkey, plus it's not actually silent (i.e. you may as well have broken the door in). I think this is a fine compromise, although it still more or less obsoletes the need for a lockpicker.

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>>51995737
The very fact that it completely replaces a skill means it's NOT balanced. It means "play a character who's magic, or get fucked."

That people still defend this kind of game design is mind-blowing. I'm with >>51994769, count me depressed that DnD is the "standard" game for heroic fantasy.

>>51995737
Lol I cast Zone of Silence, then cast Knock with my Subtle-Spell meta-magic (negating the need to say words in my zone of silence).

Get fucked Rogue. Sure is great being the Wizard/Sorcerer Mast Race.
But seriously, there is nothing a mundane character can do better than a magical character with the right spells... and often times getting the right spells is way easier, less time consuming, and less risky than actually bothering to learn the mundane version of anything.

>>51995768
>The very fact that it completely replaces a skill means it's NOT balanced.

It is the "best" balanced, not perfectly balanced. It is balanced by the fact that it only replaces an aspect of the skill, not the entire skill, and that you need to spend extra resources on the ritual, while you don't need to spend on the skill. Any worse than this, and you are rapidly approaching "this is never worth using" territory, which the 4e rituals already often teetered on.

>>51995792
That's a problem with spell acquisition and casting being easy and skill acquisition being unreasonably hard.

>>51994638

Think of shit that need to get done.

Now imagine it gets done magically.

Bam.

>>51995768
>>51994769
Not our faults that both you and your DM are retarded, anons.

>>51994638
The more accurate answer unlike those spouted by the dipshits already edition warring, is to make them do whatever you want while being time/resource intensive, or with similar drawbacks. If spells actually have a reasonably long/intricate cast time and take materials that are legitimately rare and expensive, then it at least balances the frequency by which they bypass mundane characters in those tasks.

You can include other drawbacks as well. Knock gives off an audible sound heard a ways away in D&D for example. You could likewise have spells that make the caster more vulnerability to various methods of attack, or produce other unwanted side effects.

Basically, if magic is in any way reliable, you have to hard-code drawbacks into using it and not handwave them away for convenience's sake.

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>>51995768
>>51994769
>completely invalidate non-magical classes

>tfw still waiting for an era where caster players don't exaggerate there abilities and pretend like they're OP

Oh look, I carry a bag of glitter scraped from mica stones to automatically invalidate any spellcasters or creatures with invisibility, isn't that unfortunate

Oh look, I'm a Ranger who put skills into survival and I found plants and herbs that give me bonuses that puts the casters shitty little bland-food-generator to shame, isn't that unfortunate

Oh look, the guard/entity the caster was trying to trick gets ousted because he walked up to the guard and had zero ranks in bluff making his spell entirely useless since it didn't matter if he looked like someone else, isn't that unfortunate

Oh look, I just wasted my time responding to this obvious wizard-faggotry pasta, isn't that unfortunate

>>52002389
t. Fun ruiner