Why are dwarves associated with technology?

Jesus fucking Christ that movie.

>>51993738

Such incredible shit. And I don't mean that in a good way.

>>51993734
Industry and shit I guess

>>51993738
I remember trying to watch the first hobbit movie once some time before they were all out then giving up very quickly due to everything being fucked up looking (I think it was the colors. I don't really remember). Everything I've seen about them since then has given me the impression it was the right thing to do

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>>51993738
Something wrong, Anon?

Because they were associated with it in the original mythology the modern concept of Dwarves drew on? Dwarves in Norse mythology made shit. Awesome shit.

>>51993734
That is stupid on levels that even WIZARDRY cannot fucking explain.

>>51993734
Lazy fantasy writers rely on cliches, one of these being that dorfs and knife-ears are opposites. The opposite of being a tree-hugging luddite is technology.

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>>51993738
>>51993782
I don't understand your problem.

>>51993738
It's okay, dwarves did it.

>>51993734
Don't remember that scene.

Would have loved watching dick elves get btfo.

>>51993782

Ok seriously who the fuck thought this was a good scene and why the fuck did the actors agree to this shit?

>>51993734
Associated with living inside of mountains that they excavate to create their cities/dwellings? Big needs for large mining equipment to excavate mountain sized chunks of rock. Having an underground civilisation calls for all manners of technology I suppose. They gotta use all the rock and metal they move around for something anyway, plus the geologically active centre of a mountain/volcano/deep earth is an awesome setting for a huge foundry/forge

>>51993734

I almost scrubbed how fucking stupid that battle was out of my head, thanks OP.

>>51993797

COME ON! This has to be the most retarded one yet. Seriously what the fuck?

>>51993797
>>51993782
>>51993734
Friendly reminder that acting against greenscreens reduced Ian McKellen to tears.

>>51993768
>>51993792
No.

>>51993789
Yes.

>>51993782
>>51993797
These are deleted scenes right? I seriously don't remember anything this bad happening.

Unless I blocked it out.

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>>51993805
Stop complaining, this movie is 100% as good as LotR.

>>51993842

>That moment when you watch the extended cut hoping it might make it better
>Yfw it makes it worse

>>51993851
Are these real and are they extended cut or original? I didn't manage to watch any version that pile of shit through to the end.

>>51993851

Oh they aren't even trying now. That's it I give up.

>>51993855
>MISTAKES WERE MADE

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So, we aren't here to answer OPs question, but to have a /tv/ thread instead? One that we had a million times by now?

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>>51993867
>>51993865
Some of them are deleted scenes available on blu-ray, including the OP and the Alfrid catapult.

>>51993734
I associate them with alcoholism, midgets and dirt

>>51993778

The FPS difference is much more important than you consciously register. CGI plus 60FPS does not look like a movie anymore, it looks like a video game, and even if you can't point out specifically what's wrong with it your brain notices.

King Dain in the OP's scene was just an uncanny valley nightmare.

>>51993851
Suddenly don't feel so bad about the sledding scene in two towers.

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>>51993879
In fairness, however, it's not like the Hobbit movies are the worst thing ever.

>>51993879
Okay, but the falling rocks thing is done a lot in fantasy movies/shows. Usually with more weight to the actions, but still

>>51993879

That one wasn't even a deleted scene sadly. Seriously how the fuck could they have been this incompetent with how big the budget was and how good tech is these days.

>>51993877
The OP question was pretty dumb and has been answered.
It's because of Dwarves being exceptional smiths in norse mythology.

>>51993893
The problem with the Hobbit movies is how much better they could have been. There's no excuse for this shit after LotR laid the groundwork.

>>51993734
Significant large scale remembering projects.

>>51993883
Didn't bother me at all.
>It looks too good
Seems like a weird complaint.

>>51993877

I came here to say Norse mythology. I said Norse mythology. I stuck around because I actually hadn't seen these scenes and I can't help but stop to stare and hate.

>>51993893
They would have done more angles, but there weren't any left that didn't have cameras in them

What's so bad about this? None of the movies make any effort to have realistic military tactics.

>>51993904

Budget and tech was probably part of the problem.

Peter Jackson pulled a George Lucas and forgot about practical effects, then he went off the fucking wall with his retarded, impractical nonsense that looks awful anyway.

>>51993734
>Why are dwarves associated with technology?

Ask the ancient Norse I guess. Some of the earliest mythology regarding dwarves paints them as craftsmen and blacksmiths.

>>51993886

At least the choreography for that was halfway decent and it looked like he was actually doing it. I mean it was a retarded scene, but it wasn't just Orlando bloom flailing spasticly and guys falling over like this was.

>>51993905
>>51993920
Being a smith doesn't make you atomatically a good engineer, architect and scientist.

>>51993938
There's realism and there's suspension of disbelief/consistent settings. LotR, partly because of the limits of special effects tech at the time (both practical and CGI) could not go full retard.

>>51993938

You can have something unrealistic but still not shatter suspension of disbelief.

The Hobbit just got fucking dumb. It wasn't "wow that's cool" or "haha that's charming" it was "what the fuck were they thinking".

>>51993938
The utter shitting on of Suspension of Disbelief? Seriously all of the shit in these scene are retarded. The Orc headbutt especially. He has a HUGE amount of reach on the dorf. Why in the fuck does he not grab said dorf and break his neck?!??!!? FUCK!

>>51993965

No but it's the same fucking kind of thing. Smithing is literally just ancient high technology. Dwarves are famous for building things because they've always been famous for building things.

>>51993965
It doesn't hurt either though. There's definitely some overlap there.

>>51993946
I don't think it's really fair to compare Jackson to Lucas. I'm pretty sure Peter Jackson just wanted out and these movies were mostly designed my a committee of executives who really wanted to make another lord of the rings trilogy despite the lack of source material or people who give a shit backing it up

>>51993971
I would have preferred random musical numbers and deliberate comedy shit over what we got.
I always felt the hobbit was the charming english roadtrip story to leaven out the dreary norse epic fanfiction of LotR.

Also, I liked the river barrels fight scene, as ridiculous as it was..

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>>51994020
>who really wanted to make another lord of the rings trilogy despite the lack of source material
The sad thing is they could have made two solid films instead of three padded ones and it might well have worked (assuming they fixed the other issues like shit CGI). Picrelated would make for a great standalone film but I suppose incest isn't going to sell to normalfags.

>>51994008
>Dwarves are famous for building things because they've always been famous for building things
I don't remember them building anything in the mythologies. They basically lived in caves.

>>51994015
The overlapp is there, but you can't just go from nice magical items, created more or less by magic than technology, to steampunk gyrocopters and call it a day.

>>51993851
>as good as lotr
>being this bluepilled

>>51994051
...Seriously? Do you live under the misty mountains.

They made Freya's boat, they made a magic boar.

Almost everything of any importance in norse mythology is made by dwarfs.

>>51994051
>I don't remember them building anything in the mythologies. They basically lived in caves.

Nigga, they made Thor's Hammer, Odins spear and jewelry so rad Freja fucked a bunch of them just to get it.

>>51993734
You know as stupid as that scene is, there's a small part of me that loves seeing the elves get so irrevocably blown the fuck out.

>>51994092
>Freya's boat
It's a boat. Has nothing to do with architecture, nothing to do with machines.
>magic boar
Magic.
>>51994112
Again, how do we get from these magical items to giant underground halls and steampunk cannons?

You didn't respond to my post at all.

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They are assholes. Just like elves are uppity elitist assholes dwarves are stubborn autistic assholes.
Being technologically savvy gives them access to more creative ways of manifesting that assholity and separates their particular flavor of being annoying from the ways of the other races. Just like those ol' twirly whirlies

>>51993965
But being smith living underground leads to need of functional machinery (venting, pumping flooded levels, foundries working without easy to get slave labour)

>>51993971
There's nothing more unrealistic about it than literally everything about how everyone fights, the complete lack of real organisation, the short faggots not just instantly getting btfo.
I find it strange that people for some reason draw the line here.
There's nothing in universe that would suggest this kind of technology isn't possible.

>>51994140
Boatmaking has everything to do with craftmanship, skill and technology. The methods of manipulating the materials and the structure of the boat IS technology, even more so than most masonry.

>>51994140
Not him, but the dwarves are only inspired by Norse mythology, not same. And since they should be able to create exceptional items, they need way to do that. And beauty was taken by elves, so you are left with quality/complexity.

>>51993734
Because as these guys have said, Norse mythology dwarves were expert craftsmen and blacksmiths. Later on this got diluted by other authors until you were left with "dwarves build stuff."

Mix that with this >>51993792 and you get dwarves building the best tech.

>>51994191
Boatmaking shouldn't be absent then in the dwarves repertoire of our standard fantasy worlds we have today.

>>51993879
I mean, that scene was stupid but that hurricanrana was kinda sick.

>>51993879
I never got what everyones problem with this scene was.

>>51993734

That is an interesting defense against rains of arrows, though.

>>51993879
Well I mean, Elves don't leave footprints, so the physics defying jumping shite isn't entirely bulllshit

>>51994289

Admittedly out of all the scenes shown in this thread it is the least offensive, buy it's still daft.

>>51993836
Source?

>>51994304

It's not the physics defying bullshit that gets me, it's how shitilly it was done. It looks like shit. It looks worse than some asian films I've seen where you know beyond a shadow of a doubt the fucker is on a wire. It's just poorly executed.

>>51993879
I can hear the Super Mario music in my head

>>51994321
Type it in google and you'll get fucktons, apparently he also explained it in an interview on the extended edition DVD if you were dumb enough to buy it.

>>51993734

Germanic folklore + scandinavian mythology

>>51994345
>>51994321
Here's one: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-11-14/sir-ian-mckellen-filming-the-hobbit-made-me-think-i-should-quit-acting
"The veteran actor says, “I got absolutely miserable and had a little cry to myself. I didn’t realise that the microphone I was wearing was open so everybody could hear me muttering to myself about how I wanted to go home and so on.”
Apparently filming for the 3D meme meant they couldn't do shit with the actors just being at different distances like in LotR.

>>51994345
>>51994364
Thanks. I suddenly don't feel bad about only having seen half of the first movie.

The arrow deflecting trickery wasn't that bad, the other shit in this thread though? Pure cancer holy shit.

>>51994373
There's an actual video floating around of him filming the scene, I'll see if I can at least find a picture. Imagine him at a greenscreen table with little pictures of the other actors that just light up when they talk, shit is depressing when you compare it to how they filmed LotR.

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>>51994395
>>51994373
Can't find the table but have this instead.

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>>51994395

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>>51994415
That bilbo face floating in the background is what he was acting opposite, by the way. Also wasn't the Hobbit Christopher Lee's last film?

Honestly blaming jackson is bullshit anyway, he wasn't supposed to be involved at all as more than a producer, I heard. There were planned practical effects and plenty of material and extras for the orcs and all sorts of shit but then the executives got all fucking uppity and shat on what was already there. Jackson was brought in after shit was already rolling, and was told to basically start over, but he didn't have the time he needed, so he was stressed out and overworked and used all the CGI because he had no choice what so ever.

>>51994395
I remember all the actor commentary from LotR. They generally described the entire experience as incredibly grueling yet totally worth it because of how awesome it was to be running around New Zealand with the other members of the cast. I imagine taking all the good parts of that away would just make the whole thing a miserable experience.

>>51994445
>because he had no choice what so ever.
He could have had a spine and fucked off instead of taking the money.

>>51994473
Was he under contract? if so, perhaps he couldn't.

You can't simplify something or make a value judgement when you don't have all the information, what you just posted added absolutely nothing to the thread.

>>51994470
>I remember all the actor commentary from LotR. They generally described the entire experience as incredibly grueling yet totally worth it because of how awesome it was to be running around New Zealand with the other members of the cast.
Yeh, I know they had to train for a few weeks to learn how to actually paddle boats for the scenes on the Auduin. I can't imagine picrelated is anywhere near as fun as that.

>>51994140
It's almost like artists take liberties and expand upon some concepts.

>>51994289
>>51994307
The only thing that irks me is that the times don't match, but that's expected in movies.

>>51994501
>Was he under contract? if so, perhaps he couldn't.
He was brought in to replace someone else who fucked off, unless he had a wildly different contract to the previous man it seems possible. He seems happy enough to have taken all the cash after the fact without crying about studio interference also. He even participated in hyping the films up before release. You can also dig through various behind the scenes parts and hear plenty of people talk about how excited he was that tech had finally caught up to his 'vision', a worryingly Lucas-like attitude to be sure.
>You can't simplify something or make a value judgement when you don't have all the information
Well since none of us know the inner workings of the studio I guess everyone involved will have to remain forever blameless.

>>51994516
It's almost like you are too lazy to give some proper answer.

>>51994038
Christopher wouldn't sell them the rights under torture. That fucker hates them the most.

>>51993734
>>51994501
Also, if what >>51994445 said was true, it seems unlikely Jackson could not have some degree of creative control, I know decisions like replacing the antagonist orcs with CGI were done after his arrival (apparently the practical effect orcs looked 'goofy' despite how they came out in LotR). If executives were just going to ignore him why bother bringing him in anyway?

Even if we are charitable and accept CGI and 3D were not his fault shit like the scenes in this very thread certainly are (he at least signed off on them). Unless, of course, you wish to claim nameless executives were so involved with the film they actually decided what scenes were to be created etc and, again, what point would there then have been in hiring him?

>>51994559
>Christopher wouldn't sell them the rights under torture. That fucker hates them the most.
That's probably for the best all considered. I know he also wasn't a fan of the LotR films (at least the second and the third).

>>51994549
That was a proper answer. Attacking my post's style definitely isn't.

>>51994594
Stating that you can expand a concept doesn't explain how and why. OPs question starts with a "why". Nobody denied that the basic concept has been expanded. It was a non-answer.

>>51993965

No, but smithing on the atomic level does. :^)

>>51994445
About three minutes in google tells you Jackson was involved in writing the plot at the very least from 2008 onwards.

>>51994632
Considering how he did on LOTR with it's plot my issues with characterization aside, being a writer doesn't make him solely or hell even half responsible for the shit show.

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>>51993734
Back when all the Old Norse sagas originated, there wasn't really a rigid classification for mythological creatures. Our images of dwarfs, elves, gnomes and others are a post-Tolkien development. There used to be Svártalfar (black elves) and Dökkálfar (darkelves) which might have been synonymous with dwarfs. Dwarfs were often contacted by the Aesir, the main Norse gods, to forge and craft magical items such as gleipnir, the fetters for the wolf Fenrir; Draupnir, the ring from which eight other identical rings "dripped" every ninth night; Odin's spear Gugnir; Thor's hammer Mjölnir; and Gullinbursti, an awakened mechanical boar.
By now I hope you can see where the association of dwarfs with technology comes from. At some point they weren't only good at making magical items, but everything. There used to be a time when the sword of an invincible hero had to be forged by dwarfs, not elves, in order to be the hottest shit around.

>>51994652
Well I wouldn't blame him soley but he was involved from the start and he knew full well what he was getting into when he signed on. If his ability to influence the films was so limited he is blameless for the fuckup he shouldn't have agreed to step in and direct in the first place.

>>51994067
>being so cucked you can't deduce sarcasm

>>51994589
What issue did he have? It has been years since I have read the books or seen the movies but I remember the movies as decent adaptations and pretty good on their own.

>>51994716
>What issue did he have?
I'd have to double check but I'm reasonably sure it was mostly about the films missing out the anti-industrialisation message of the books. Skipping out on the Scouring of the Shire, for example, makes for a better film but it does change the tone of the ending somewhat.
Personally I agree with him in some respects but I still love the films for what they are and I don't think LotR could have been filmed any other way and still come out watchable.

>>51994716
>>51994741
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/06/03/72359-what-would-the-professor-have-thought-of-peter-jacksons-version-of-the-lord-of-the-rings/
I find this to be a solid enough commentary on it and I think the first comment is spot on: JRRT himself would probably not be so bothered by it. I know he was on record as saying he would hate to see LotR 'disneyfied' (i.e too bright, happy and generic fairy tale).

Why didn't the orcs just use the giant tunnel worm monsters to tunnel straight into the dorf fort?

>>51993734
Because lazy writers don't really understand what 'technology' is or how it gets going IRL, and dwarves are a convenient excuse to have steampunk and wacky clockworks in your fake medieval setting.

>>51994827
They have to watch for eagles.

>>51993879
Huh, I just noticed how well this loops. Neat.

>>51993734
>Not even one arrow passes through

>>51994827
There's underground walls that they cant get through

The worms were getting tired

The orcs wanted to fight and decimate their enemies; Same reason why they didn't just let the dwarves and elves kill each other.

They were afraid that the dwarves might have an advantage inside the fort, for some reason.

Logistic failure.

>>51993893
I wish there was an edit with a a pile of corpses on the ground

>>51994008
>No but it's the same fucking kind of thing.
No it's not. Technological development is a function of economic conditions and culture; clannish, isolationist traditionalists who take great pride in skilled work of hands are the last people who would consider mechanization or industrialization, or adopt those ways of thinking from someone else.

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>>51994692
It should be noted that Norse Dorfs were never, as a rule, shorter than normal humans or elves.
The image of dwarves as short, chubby, bearded folk comes from much later German tradition.
However, Norse dwarves or dark/black elves were always subterranean.

>>51993734
Dwarves are typically depicted as being heavily involved in mining and metalworking, doing both on a far larger scale and to a far higher quality than other races.
Depicting them as having advanced industrial capabilities flows pretty naturally from wanting to depict them like this.
Additionally it helps to distinguish them from elves, who also create goods at a far higher quality but who have been associated with ideas of magic, and being master artisans.

Okay but i didn't ask for fantasy dwarves specifically. Why were the Dwarves in Norse mythology associated with craftsmenship?

>>51993797
>everything about this scene
what the fuck

>>51995474
Well SOMEONE had to craft all those magical weapons that the heroes and gods are using. May as well make them reclusive, magical creatures that live underground and spend all day crafting powerful and mystical artifacts and items that everyone wants.

>>51995474
Why are Santa's Elves associated with craftsmanship?

>>51993792
In Tolkien's works the Elves actually had the best tech.

>>51994827
I guess the ground under the fort was different (harder or less moist). Especially if you assume Dwarves fought these monsters before or know of their existence, they would know of ways to make forts worm proof. Or maybe the worms orientation (or the orcs control over it) isn't all that great or they dig near the most noise (feet on the battleground). Otherwise no forts (or at least walls) would exist at all since orcs could just fuck them.
I mean really, you are on /tg/ and cannot even think of a half assed explanation for that? Or are you just trying to repeat the eagle meme?

>>51994364
>These fuckers made nice old man gandalf cry

This cannot be forgiven

>>51994536
>He seems happy enough to have taken all the cash after the fact without crying about studio interference
Career suicide. Ever heard from Trank since FF?

>>51994578
>what point would there then have been in hiring him?
His name alone added legitimacy to movies. "They can't be cynical cash-ins, the guy behind LotR is on this!"

>>51993734
This is actually pretty cool, if admittedly still stupid.

Always wondered, what does /tg/ feel about the elf army in this scene? I thought the choreographed-style of fighting looked absolutely excellent, personally.

>>51994408
>>51994415
>>51994429
What if we are ALL lights with paper faces stuck to them?

>>51993879
>you will never have Orlando Bloom Flying Crotch Grip your face and throw you to the ground with nothing but the sheer force of his thighs

why live?

>>51995844
deepest lore

>>51993734
Because the in Tolkien lore, the god who created them was a crafty god fan of crafting things.
Silmarillion pls

>>51993738
>>51993742
Elven twinks on suicide watch!

>>51993802
I don't recall some of the scenes posted above....

>>51994536
>without studio interference
He had a mental breakdown and had to shut down filming for three months because they didn't have the resources
Source: BTS interviews with cast and crew

>>51993734
Traditionally are miners and smiths with forges underground. They made the tools and weapons for the Norse gods

>>51993851
>>51993797
>>51993734
>>51993782

I refused to see the Battle for Five armies as the previous two were such horrible horrible shit.

The only Webm I've seen was of Legolas, leaping across falling rocks because he's lighter than air, but then 4 seconds later flips over a 350lb Orc with his legs somehow

>>51995985
>because he's lighter than air, but then 4 seconds later flips over a 350lb Orc with his legs somehow
Welcome to Tolkiens elves. The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion are necessary reads.

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>>51993734
That contraption is really cool. Too bad the movie blew complete asscheeks.

Anyways, Dwarves came to Tolkien's middle earth through Norse mythology. Within Norse mythology dwarves were associated with mining, smithing, and wisdom. It stands to reason that they would be shown as relatively advanced technologically in middle earth. Then, people said "Woah cool, I want those fancy dwarves in my setting! Except these guys have steam power!" Then "Except these guys have coal power!" and then "Except these guys have gunpowder!". Basically we have the ol' fractal of human creation adding more and more tech onto their dwarves to make them 'unique' or perhaps tweak them to the creator's liking.

>>51995028
Yeah, I remember have hear that the origin of dwarf comes from something as "twisted". Hence I think that the origin of the myth was that those physically impaired individuals not fit for fighting or hunting were instead assigned to metalworking.

Some German and Austrian lore mentions that dwarves have odd feet.

Mine tasks are also best suited to short people so that there's some additional reason to believe that the physically unfit people could make a living working underground and in forges.

>>51993902
A good example of it done right is in the first Kung-Fu Panda, when Tai Lung escapes his mountain prison. No shit. Those movies had some really neat action sequences.

>>51995985
After Battle of the Five Armies, it's made me actually LIKE Unexpected Journey. Just a little bit.
If only because it shows flashes of actual CARE and effort in its construction, unlike the latter two.
Riddles in the Dark wasn't exactly book-accurate, but Andy Serkis performed so well that it made it all worthwhile.

Yeah, Desolation's scene with Bilbo meeting Smaug was great if only because Benjamin Cucumberpatch managed to breathe so much life into his CGI puppet. And then the movie had to piss away all the good will I had for it with the stupid fucking dorf chase sequence that went on for way too fucking long.
And then it didn't even have to decency to end on the logical end point: Smaug's death. They just toss that in at the beginning of Five Armies as a 10-minute "dump you into the action" scene that has no tension because it loses all the tension that was built up in the last movie.
Fuck I'm ranting now.
Um.
Fuck Peter Jackson for going full hack on Hobbit.
And fuck MGM for being such cunts about the license and making Guillermo Del Toro quit.

>>51996058
Well, that's a cartoon by nature and kung-fu movies have always had silly stunts like that. It's totally acceptable to have a rock-leaping sequence.
In the once-grounded world of the Lord of the Rings movies, it just doesn't fly.

>>51993797
Why doesn't the troll chew it in half?

>>51996073
Yeah exactly. Just looks fucking retarded, and not at all in the spirit of The Hobbit anyways.

>>51996076
Because the other half of him would still be in its throat.

>>51993734
Well, fucking happy I didn't watch the third one, would probably have stroked out in the theatre...

>>51996076
It's a movie for children.

>>51993802
>>51995941

From the extended edition

>>51993734
In a fantasy world where other species like Elves and Orcs are just physically perfect in terms of dexterity or strength, then being a turbomanlet would mean death if not for your ability to compensate with technology.

>>51993734
Looks like something That Guy would pull out during a session.

>>51993782
I like this one. The main dorfs were always meant to be cartoonish, but capable.

>>51993797
That's Wayans brothers retarded.

>>51993851
Awful. Doesn't even look like he's attacking those orcs, just fucking around.

>>51993879
Also like this one. When people start martials vs casters shit, that's the scene I'm reminded of. That's the kind of thing high level martials should be able to do.

>>51993851
>rules of nature

>>51996065

>And then it didn't even have to decency to end on the logical end point: Smaug's death. They just toss that in at the beginning of Five Armies as a 10-minute "dump you into the action" scene that has no tension because it loses all the tension that was built up in the last movie.

Hahaha, no mate.

The reason why you didn't see Smaug die in #2 was to force you to watch #3

They were worried a good number of people wouldn't have bothered with #3 if they got the conclusion of Smaugs death in #2

Any other explanation is an out an out lie if they even pretend they couldnt have added in 8.5 extra minutes of footage.

>>51993734
>Yorik, let's weaponize Wuxia characters!
>Urist, you're a madman!

>>51993734
I love how thoroughly rekt the elf dude looks

>>51994186

You haven't read the books, have you? They don't even have solid plate armor in them, let alone any of this other crap.

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>>51993797
>>51993782
>>51993851

>>51993734
>>51993782
>>51993797
>>51993851
Are these from some extended edition or something? I don't remember these scenes.

>>51993778
I seem to remember there being an edit online that took all 3 and squeezed 1 movie out of them that was as close to the source material as was possible.

>>51996667
>Are these from some extended edition or something?
How about you read this fucking /tv/ thread?

>>51996683
How about you link the fucking thread?

>>51993797
Filename gave me a solid kek

>>51996709
No, I'm talking about this fucking /tv/ thread.

>>51993734

Because people who don't actually read Tolkein associate Elves with nature.

Elves and Dwarves hate each other. They are opposites in so many ways!

So... that means... Dwarves are not nature. Dwarves are technology.

Because thats smart, and lets all just ignore the fact that in Tolkien elvish made shit was ALWAYS better than dwarvish made shit. Elves learned how to make stuff from the gods themselves, and when they came back to middle Earth they taught the humans and dwarves some of those secrets.

Elvish weapons are not even magical in the normal fantasy sense. There is no special power imbued into them. Sting doesn't glow when orcs are around because it has magic built into it, it glows when orcs are around because the elvish blacksmith that made it was just THAT GOOD at blacksmithing. All the same materials and tools that humans and dwarves use, just an extra 4000 years of blacksmithing experience and skill.

Because elves are associated with nature.

>>51994716
Not the guy you're responding to, and not possessing any special insight to the workings of Chrsitopher Tolkien's mind, but he was probably upset at a lot of the tonal shift, a fundamental missing of some of the messages that JRRT put in them.

Take, for instance, Haldir and his force arriving at Helms deep to help out in the defense. Ignoring the practical issues of Lorien detecting trouble and sending a force down, it leaves us with themes that

>The Men, (or at least Rohan) are weak.
>All of the "good races" are going to band together to fight The Bad Guys
>Try to have an emotional moment around Haldir's death and Aragorn's reaction to it.

Meanwhile, in the books
>Rohan is quite strong; Saruman actually doesn't have much of a chance in open warfare against the full muster of the Rohirrim.
>The "good races" are most explicitly NOT getting together to fight the Darkness. It's the men fighting pretty much alone, with everyone else only defending their backyard, and that's why all the other races are going to fade while Men endure.
>Seriously, who made Haldir in charge of anything? He's a border patrol dude.

Don't get me wrong, they were enjoyable. But they weren't really good adaptations of Tolkien, who was writing a fictional mythology and several important sub-stories which flowed together. Jackson made it One Big Plot about how good guys fight Sauron and his servants. I can see someone as invested into things as Chris Tolkien disliking them intensely.

Also, I seem to remember somewhere that some clause in the contract leasing the rights tricked him out of a lot of the movies profits.

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>>51993734
I still remember watching this trilogy realising that it wasn't going to be good as LOTR. But still enjoying it for the dwarves and aesthetics Then again I really don't get mad at mediocre movies since its just a few hours of my time

>>51996882
>for the dwarves and aesthetics
But the aesthetics were shit. They went from believable but still fantastic designs to some ridiculous shit. The weapons of the dwarves looked retarded.

>>51996683
Reading is for fags.

>>51994038
I have read Silmarillion, LOTR and Hobbit. Are others book worth it? Are they at least considered canon?

>>51996898
We only had Gimli in Lotr to look at and maybe like 3 dwarves in the council scene. It was nice to see more dwarf stuff there, and there were some neat designs in there, although most people remember the shit.

>>51996743
So elves have nanomachines?

>>51996898
I disagree, the desings of some were stupid of course, but it was expected because they wanted to make all of them look different enough (at that they did very well). The armors and weapons aren't as good as LoTR but still better than most.
Orcs, beast, the nazgul had good details.
The problem is than they wanted to mix grim-dark and a childrens movie, Del Toro could have pulled it out, Peter Jackson too if he had the time and could have done two movies instead of three. But it ended the utter failure than was the Hobbit trilogy, than it had all the ingredients to be a master piece and ended being shit.

>>51994378

Kind of makes you wonder whether fantasy flak cannons would be an effective counter to archery volleys. Of course with wizards and shit you're better off just shooting a fireball in the air.

My dog told it goes back to 1788 Bavaria where a dashing and colorfully dressed negro ravaged your mother.

>>51993734
In norse mythology thjey were excellent craftsmen who had the secret of good steel (Mythral), in RPGs where everyone has good steel they get stupid gizmos instead.

>>51997067
The other books occur throughout the silmarillion (I think.) Children of Hurin is good Morgoth decides to fuck over that family in particular and turin manages to kill the first dragon. The actual book is pretty neat, and pretty grim. Pure tragedy.I like how deals with the scale of the silmarillion too, with this whole story basically being a footnote.

>>51998048
And then he curses Hurin to sit atop of the mountain, undying, and watch his legacy go rotten and die. Turin (his son) becomes kind of a dick, ends up having sex with his amnesiac sister (who kills herself when she regains her memory) and then Turin speaks to his magical talking sword and kills himself with it. All this happens right after he slays the dragon.

Then some time later Hurin gets released by Melkor, he finds Turin's grave and then kills himself by going into the sea and drowning.

>>51994622
Dwemer aren't dwarves.

Reminder that norse dwarves are maggots feasting on the corpse of a god. They are the dark elves. All the great magical accomplishments of "nordic dwarves" are from the other elves.

Dwarves and elves are a meaningless distinction created by hack fantasy writers.

You have humans, who are mortal and of civilization, and you have elves/dwarves/fey who are magical and of the world.

Go back and rewatch the extended LotR

It's just as retarded. The proper LotR is not.

>>51998399
>hack
Nice "only my opinion is correct" mate.

My dwarves don't sleep. They don't actually have any use for relaxation at all, they just need a lot of food and water to keep them going. Their life spans are short but long, living 30 years of nonstop action, an eight year old usually as wise as a fully adult human. Couple that with slightly physiologically superior hands and eyes than the other races, and you've got yourself a race of extremely advanced artisans and engineers.

>>51993851
I like the Auralnauts version the best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0WDfNKX0Os

>>51993797
>>51993782
Is it bad that I do not understand what's so bad about this scene?Because it looks like one of those retarded war casualties and considering that hobbit was never serious in the first place, shit like this is completely acceptable.

>>51994038
>I suppose incest isn't going to sell to normalfags.
>Implying normalfags don't love ASOFAI

Did not the Tolkien kid forbid Hackson from making any more LOTR movies because of these atrocities

>>51998360
So they're an allegory for Nordic people?

>>51999474
Everything.

>>51996743
I think it was explained that the elves really don't understand magic as we do. For elves, it's more something that happens than something they do. They could create swords and bows and crap with supernatural properties but to the elves it's perfectly normal and don't wonder what all the other races are going on about.

>>51999474
The Hobbit might have been a children's book but it's still the same universe as the Lord of the Rings. Apart from Legolas doing that 1 stupid thing every movie, the rest of the combat scenes were "realistic" as can be in a fictional universe.

The Hobbit on the other hand just force feeding people these type of fights.

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>>51999999

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>>51999999

>>51998048
>>51998277
Yeah that was told in Silmarillion but in less detail I guess. I m thinking also about Untold tales and other Jon books.

>>51999999
Is this Gnosis?
>>52000085
I wasn't talking about "fights", though.

>>51994378
You can sorta make sense of it because dwarves hate elves and elves are the biggest arrow memers in the history of arrows, but it needs a bit of a reworking, throwing a huge chainmail net up would be less retarded.

>>51993734
Ignoring the gif, I'd say its because it's incredibly difficult to imagine being able to build and survive in subterranean cities without having some decently advanced technology.

>>51997067
They are as canon as anything else really, mostly from JRRT's notes with Christopher filling in the blanks. Children of Hurin is particularly good if you like your sagas but you don't have to be a turboautist to enjoy it.

>>52000196
Because its fucking dumb and stupid.

>>51999500
That's only done for shock-value and the characters involved are obviously meant to be viewed as bad (at least Cersei is). Hurin has your protagonist accidentally dicking his special-needs sister, the situation is different.

>>51993797
But why did it die from that, and why didn't he die.

>>52000216
>throwing a huge chainmail net up would be less retarded.
I don't think you understand how expensive and heavy chainmail is.
>>52000134
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children_of_H%C3%BArin#Publication_history
The tl;dr is that it was never quite finished in any one version by Tolkien but the vast majority of it is his work rationalised into a coherent story by his son.

>>52000407
I think Alfrid did die.

>>51994716
>I have read the books or seen the movies but I remember the movies as decent adaptations and pretty good on their own.
The movies are probably as good an adaptation as you can make and still turn a profit and I always felt they were pretty much in the spirit of Tolkien.
Only real gripe I got with them personally is Legolas being a bit too OP and Eowyn's character getting a bit short changed..

That and stupid petty shit like the Gondor soldiers wearing plate instead of mail....

>>51998627
It really isn't.
There are some very questionable choices, like the death of Saruman, but nothing even approaching this level of idiocy.

>>51993734
Oh, Warhammer finally got a movie! That's nice.

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>>52000565
I don't see any sigmarines...

>>51996756
>Also, I seem to remember somewhere that some clause in the contract leasing the rights tricked him out of a lot of the movies profits.

I'll bet you my sweet piece of ass that's the reason he's pissed about the movies. Money's always the problem, and there's always someone who could have gotten more/woulf have wanted more.

>>52000623
Originally the Tolkein Estate was promised 7.5% of all profits. Hollywood accounting meant the films apparently made a loss, they were taken to court and eventually settled for a fair share but it took fucking years and delayed production on the Hobbit. Jackson also got jewed out of his cash from LotR.

>>51996743
>>51993734
Because mythologically speaking, Dwarves have been associated with master craftsmen and tinkerers.

>>51993738
>elf-fag on suicide watch

Tell me, what is so unbelievable about that?

>>52000746
>Hollywood jewing people

Why am I not surprised?

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This made me want to replay this game, for which I do not have the CD anymore for fuck's sake.

Practically impossible to find in stores and completely impossible to buy on internet. Really makes me want to learn how to use torrent and pirate games just for that.

The game was awesome, Dwarves were cool as shit, but those Dol Amroth Knights though.

>>52000216

>elves are the biggest arrow memers in the history of arrows

You know the funny thing is, that in Tolkien's universe

A) Only really the Sylvan elves are big on the archery.

B) They are continually portrayed as being less effective, especially against armored foes, because of this. They're the only elves who have trouble with ordinary orcs in both the Silmarillion and the War of the Last Alliance.

>>52000882
Unfortunately Gygax based his elves on Legolas and the Sindarin alone. And here are now, with a million copies of tree hugging bow-autists.

>>52000875
>Really makes me want to learn how to use torrent and pirate games just for that.
Anon literally 5 seconds in google will tell you.

>>52000934
I kinda tried. Shit complicated yo.

If I'm serious for a second, I managed to download the files and ll so there's that, but then I need to figure how to actually install it like a game. Oh well, maybe when I'm back from the gym.

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>>52001024
>but then I need to figure how to actually install it like a game
I blame Steam for this, having raised a generation that doesn't know how to install simple video games.

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>>51993734
>Humans ride horses
>Elves ride giant stags
>Dwarves ride giant goats
>Orcs ride giant wolves

>>52001080
That's actually one of the cooler things. Stag riding elves are awesome. Dwarves would have riding animals more suited to their environment, and orcs are savage as fuck, of course they ride wolves.

>>52001024
It depends on whether you can find a GOG version or not GOG installs itself, for .iso or other disk image files you can use daemon tools light or Cyberlink Media suite, fairly fucking easy to figure out dude, Piratebay itself will fucking tell you flat out how to do it.

>>52001076
Hey, I know how to install a game all right, but I don't dable in .iso that much.

>>52001198
Sound, will look into it, thanks bruv.

>>52001314
Cyberlink PowerDVD in particular is the program that came with my original version of windows that can run .iso files on virtual drives.

>>52001374
Uh, that may be why it didn't work then. I used daemon tools the first time.

>>52001452
No you probably fucked it up.

>>52000875
How close to Wrath of the Lich King did this get released?

>>52001538
That is also a very high probability indeed. The fact that the game is not Windows 7 compatible to begin with doesn't help what little skills I have.

>>51999474
>hobbit was never serious in the first place,

Yeah light-hearted romps often have the entire cast starving to death in a dark forest.

Cogs

>>52001717
The hobbit is written as a folk tale. That's what it is.
But that's a genre we kind of forgot about, so we don't recognize its codes and they seem weird to us.

>>52001717
Have you never heard of Ring-Around-A-Rosie? its a song for kids, but what its about is definitely not for kids.

>>52001714
I got either this one or the first one installed in a virtual Win XP or something, some time ago, tried the keygens and all, and STILL couldn't get the damn game to run. Wonder if there's a rip version which runs without installing, that could help.

>>52001129
The dwarven dire goats were one of the few things I really like about the third (turd) movie. It kinda makes sense, and actually looks cool.

>>51993782
Guess I didn't catch this part, wow. A-at least the other dwarves got more well-deserved screen time, I guess...?

>>51995985
Good choice, the first one is passable, but the last one is kinda unforgivable.

>>51993855
You forgot the extended second movie? Where the must-watch extended scenes included the mayor literally eating got balls?

>>51997692
Eh, the Hobbit should really have a slightly more light-hearted look than LotR. It's supposed to be more of an adventure story, rather than war, than LotR, no?

>>52002297
*goat balls

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>>52001129
>Dwarves would have riding animals more suited to their environment

>>52001714
>The fact that the game is not Windows 7 compatible to begin with
Check PCGamingwiki's page for the game.

>>52000493
Eowyn got shafted hard dude

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>>52002518
Thanks anon.

>>52001080
>Humans ride oliphaunts

>>52001601
The Battle for Middle Earth 2 witch king expansion was released 2 years before the WoW lich king expansion. For that matter, it was released before Burning Crusade.

>>51993734
Because we know better than to trust gnomes with the stuff after Dragonlance.

>>52002853
Maybe it's nostalgia, but it was a damn good game.

Even the French VA were pretty solid, and qome even had the movie's voices IIRC.


I remember fucking around with Isengard's mines, setting up whole minefields along Minas Tirith's walls and blowing them with a lone berzerker, that was awesome.

>>52000875
>Really makes me want to learn how to use torrent and pirate games just for that.
Hi FBI

>>52002945
Does the FBI even aactually bother with that?

Unless you're on some seriously weird sites downloading CP and whatnot, I doubt Agent John Doe and his colleagues will come knocking.

>>52002979
No you just get an email from your ISP, telling you to stop, and to DELET THING.

>>51993797
>>51993782
>>51993734
It's a kids film for fucks sake, cut them some slack

>>51994266
Nice troll attempt, I almost went off on a rant.. almost.

>>52000875
It's simple.Download and install torrent software.Go to https://thepiratebay.org and search for the game.Find download link with a green or pink skull and click the magnet icon.

>>51995519
Well that's like comparing Humans to monkeys. One was created by God to further create, whereas the others just kind of use crude tools. Tolkein's dwarves were never meant to be made and essentially only continued to exist out of Eru's mercy.

>>51994364
I couldn't care less about that.

>I make millions and millions and am complaining about the stupid shit they're making me do that I could have foreseen since so many other movies nowadays are doing it.
>Durr I have no sense of perspective

Everyone's job sucks, but I've never seen the cart pusher at Walmart break down and cry just because it was cold and wet one day.

>>52004132
the difference is he has been doing this since before you existed, and unlike the cart pusher he actually loves his job, using CGI is one thing but Jackson went way overboard with it to the point where it can hardly be called acting anymore, more make voices at a picture.

>>51996007
But that's not Tolkein related battle scenes at all. Generally his descriptions of Elvish warriors is that they were tall, powerful, wield greatswords or maces and fight epic Beowulf style duels for hours or days on end.

>>51996683
Literally would have taken less words for you to say "yes" or "no".

>>52004234
I still don't give a shit. I work with a guy who's been doing the same job for like 20 years, with 40 or so years in the field, and over that time he keeps getting more shit piled on his plate, does less of what he likes, makes less money relative to his increased responsibilities, and yet I can't imagine him breaking down and crying. All I see from this is that McKellan is a soft pussy with no sense of perspective.

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>>51999999

>>52004417
So you're an entitled or rather supremely arrogant cunt, and somehow I doubt your anecdote is true, if you do more or have more responsibility, you generally get paid more in any kind of job I'm aware of, there are exceptions but they are rare.

>>51994917
There would be if Leslie Nielsen was still alive.

rip

>>51995474
>Why were the Dwarves in Norse mythology associated with craftsmenship?
Because they were?
I mean why is anything the way it is in mythology unless you're literally asking for some anthropological theory of the real world inspirations for myths.

>>51993734
Because Eloi are all devoted to nature and shit, while Morlocks are all devoted to industry.
Read Time Machine

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>>52005470
This one?

>>51999441
Brilliant.

>this movie is literally the "Prequel Trilogy" of LotR.

Funny how that works.

>>51993734
underground=mining=industry=technology
e-z

>>52002524
nice lewd double entendre anon.

>>51996743
People who actually do read Tolkein know that the only thing dwarves surpassed elves in was metalwork, especially their iron masks that made the wearer immune to dragon fire. Metallurgy=technology.

>>51993738
Half the cinema were laughing out loud when I saw it, especially when Legolas did that matrix bridge running shit.

>>52007852
>Matrix
I was making Super Mario sounds during that scene

>>51994020
he wasn't even meant to make these movies, they were getting made by del toro from memory but then he pulled out and jackson had to come in and shit a movie out as quickly as he could.
he said he was making shit up as he went along with battle of the five armies

>>52000875
Fun fact:
>According to the Guinness Book of World Records Gamer's Edition, this game has the longest video game expansion pack title ever.

>>51999441
>Bolg is the only one to ever actually hit Legolas

That's hilarious.

>>52004417
so, you go ahead and spend 60 years perfecting your favorite craft/hobby- not just a day to day job, and then you have someone come in and literally force you to do what you have done the same way for those 60 years exactly wrong and leave you with an expensive pile of shit with your name and face on it.

>>52000927
i like that Greenwood at least made Asshole elves,
Nice elves, slightly less nice but still reasonable elves, dickhead tree elves and the drow.

>>51993879
I don't mind this, this is 100% Elf Kino
>>51993851
This is outrageous

>>51995519
i'll argue that. works the dwarves made rivaled and surpassed even some of the first era works the elves made which is what helped the races hate eachother. other than actual magic (except maybe enchanting weapons and armor) dwarves regularly btfo'd the elves in smithing and tech.

>>51998322
>to giants they were

>>51996756
>Jackson made it One Big Plot about how good guys fight Sauron and his servants
Which, to be fair, is pretty much the only way LoTR could have worked as films. It's a different medium. Trying to fit in every scene, plotpoint and sublot isn't going to make a fluent piece of cinema.
Though Jackson still made some weird choices like the aforementioned Helm's Deep, or Denethor's character assassination.

>>52002200
You know the whole black death interpretation is probably a myth?
Earlier recorded versions of the rhyme don't correlate easily to the plague, and the one version that does is from the mid 1800's.

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>>51993734
>>51993782
>>51993797
>>51993851
>>51993879
What in the everliving fuck

Please don't bump this /tv/ thread if you don't have anything to contribute.

>>51999500
All ASOIAF normie fans are starkfags. Which kinda defeats the point of liking the series but well, it's not like I care enough about it to judge them.

>>51999474
People complains about lack of realism, but they're actually talking about sobriety. Lotr (and the written works) was relatively sober for a fantasy product. There was over the top shit in the background, but almost never in the front page.

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>>51993734
>>51993782
>>51993797
>>51993851
>>51993879
I wonder what would Tolkien say if he was still alive

>>52013221
He would say that you should let the thread die.

>>51993805
>why the fuck did the actors agree to this shit?

Ian Mckellen literally broke down in tears from the useless shit he was contractually obligated to do.

>>52002422
I hope that is a scene from a bad italian horror movie and not real life.

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>>51999999

Blame del Toro.

His departure is what made the Hobbit a production nightmare.

>>52014088
I'm not sure it would be that better with him on board. I get the impression a lot of the more outlandish monster stuff was his idea, and shit like the "love triangle" was probably suit-mandated anyway.

Absolute normie and pleb here, how necessary is it to read The Hobbit before going into LOTR?

>>52016049
Not very, but you should still do it because the hobbit is a great read.

>>51993851
>3_nat_15's.webm

>>51993734
cause in mythology Dwarves were associated with technology.

>>52004417
If you actually read the links you'll realise he only let others hear by accidentally leaving his mic on and was mostly complaining to himself.

>>52016049
Not at all but I'd still start with it. It's a significantly easier read and will set you up for Tolkien's style in LotR.

>>52016351
They really aren't.

When you are surrounded by metal, and don't use much magic, you tend to think of an alternative.

>>52016965
They really are.

>>51994776

christ, that article. what is with it with 'fans' and being so incredibly dense?

'its safe to say he would've preferred jackson's version over the 1957 proposal'

mate, you literally quoted directly from tolkien that outline how much he would've disagreed and disliked the direction of jackson's films.

he doesn't like how the '57 version is a regression to standard fantasy cliches - jackson's movies practically drip with them

tolkien was strongly in favor of cutting Helm's Deep because it isn't important in the long run - jackson turned the entire second movie into exhausting battleporn at Helm's Deep.

fuck me, he doesn't even get why Aragorn carries around the shards of Narsil with him. did the author let jackson's aragorn subsume the actual one in his head? because actual Aragorn wasn't a wishy-washy cunt who still didn't know if he wanted to be kind or not. Aragorn had decided all that decades ago and was set on his path, one that he had been working toward for most of his life. Narsil is useless to anyone but him, there's no reason NOT to carry it as an emblem and constant reminder of his duty and purpose.

fuck fuck fuck that article was so stupid

>>51993782
wtf happened here

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>>51994395
Sorry for the silly filename.

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>>51999999

>>51993734
it just keeps getting worse and worse

Thanks for this thread. It had been so long I had forgotten why I hated the Hobbit movies.

>>52013812
nah im pretty sure i remember this being real, the goats can go up and down it pretty quickly though, its impressive.

>>51999999
Hobbit apologist BTFO

>>52018144
Elves are. Dwarves are their useless, parasitic cousins.

>>52018548
That dwarf (Bifur) has part of an axe stuck in his head. In that scene, the part of the axe sticking out gets stuck in the orc.

>>52020142
And a side-effect of the axe trauma was that he only speaks in Dwarvish. Which would have been a clever point if he had more than three and a half lines in the whole trilogy.

>>51994289
>>51994378
Except that it doesn't make sense as a fired weapon, as some stationary fans over your army? maybe, as something fired? nope. You need to calculate the cross section of the wall of arrows the enemy is firing at you to literally break all the arrows like in the webm, that's impossible, the fact that not even 1 arrow passes through irks me a lot, the defense fan bolts aren't even touching each other, how is that no arrow passes through them?

>>52020349
because it's a film

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>>52021826
Look, I'm not going to argue that a story should never have breeches of logic - occasionally they will happen in an artificially constructed story.

But a movie is supposed to be able to distract the audience from such breeches in logic, or make them feel acceptable. All this movie did was throw some weird shit and bad jokes because they had to pad out a single book - a child's story, really - into a trilogy and even with the sideplots they added, they needed far, far more narrative meat than Tolkien's story alone could give.

tl;dr do not spit on my plate and tell me I'm at a restaurant and expect that to make it okay.

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>>52021879
> breeches of logic
True dwarves wear no breeches, logical or otherwise

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>>51999999

>>51993851
AND THEY RUN WHEN THE SUN COMES UP
WITH THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE
(ALIVE)

I never got into the hobbit movies after the first because of the whole blacks in middle earth shit.
Recently i saw the latest middle earth game had negroes in the trailer.

The Lotr trilogy was peak Tolkien it will never get as good as that.

>>52001717
>Yeah light-hearted romps often have the entire cast starving to death in a dark forest.
Yes it does. How much of a thin-skinned faggot do you need to be to consider it dark.

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>>52024306
>the problem with LoTR today is those vile vile coloured folk
>not the mismanagement of a rushed movie trilogy, the Assassins Creed ripoff, and the waning interest in the actual books for the popular movies

>>51996260
>Also like this one. When people start martials vs casters shit, that's the scene I'm reminded of. That's the kind of thing high level martials should be able to do.

Do high level martials have unbreakable plot armour because they're in the next movie?

>>52024306
There's also asians in the lake town for some reason. I almost wanna say the same token person is shown in two different places almost at the same time.

>>52024648
Not him and not even racism, but it just doesn't make sense and reeks of CURRENT YEAR forced stuff.