/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

Also, do you think we'll ever get another video game like Bloodlines or Redemption?

>>51985558

>>51985511

So is oWoD truly incompatible with post 2010 timeframe or is there something that can be done to bring old fluff to a modern CURRENT YEAR!

>>51985575

Isn't new Werewolf: Apocalypse in the making right now?

also

first for Mage Supremacy!

>>51985604

Yes, but I'm talking about a Vampire game.

>>51985328

So, if oWoD archmages can nullify vampires/Caine, could they also do the same to the other various supernaturals/night-folk?

Remember to ignore all the CofD kiddies' opinions in this thread. They do nothing but talk out their ass.

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>>51985421

>>51985604
>second for Mage Supremacy!

sorry

>>51985622

Fair enough, but did you expect new Werewolf game?
Me neither.

So expect or don't anything.
Rademtion was just a curiosity, but Bloodlines was and is one of the best games ever made for many people (all faults, not finishing it and bugs aside) and you can spot it on many 'best game', 'best rpg' or 'best whatever' lists. Sooner or later someone will be brave enough to try to replicate the legend.

>>51985604
W20

ww as written doesn't work because it needs the huge overarching threat for all the other to band against. and to keep delaying the apoc after it's been said NOW THE GATES OF Ragnarök ARE OPEN. Is the Pandora's box you can't close again.

Basically you have to take out the Apocalypse in WW:Apocalypse. Which cheats the draw most players have. But hey I like Forsaken so it's not a problem for me.

>>51985696

I prefer Redemption over Bloodlines, if only for the transition from dark ages to modern nights.

Not first, but it's really very silly to have spooky owls as a main antagonist.

>>51985656

For me it was completely different. Coming straight from Vice City, the glorious 80's pumping neon masterpiece, to... San Andreas. Playing a barely understandable negro and listening to shitty jungle drum music just... didn't work at all. And I wasn't even that racist back then, but black 'culture' is just ugh...

>>51985749
>he didn't listen to KDST, KROSE, or RADIO X
what a way to make yourself out to be a gigantic pleb

>>51985716

>transition from dark ages to modern nights.
that was god damn neat, that's for sure

for me Redemption was kind of awkward, loved it for Vampire but i played it after the other great RPG's so my bar was set high already
had more fun in modded Neverwinter Nights with it tho but thats kind of niche in niche already and not many people know about it im afraid to be relevant.

>>51985711
At least im happy its not as much my fault that im struggling with it so much. Who would thought that games fluff can age so much.
Fuck living in future. Can't wait until GURPs Tranhuman Space starts to be historical setting.

>>51985851
>for me Redemption was kind of awkward, loved it for Vampire but i played it after the other great RPG's so my bar was set high already
>had more fun in modded Neverwinter Nights with it tho but thats kind of niche in niche already and not many people know about it im afraid to be relevant.
Do go on. Redemption was always too clunchy for me. But I am a fan of Neverwinter's UI

>>51986038

Oh man, that was some years ago, some people did a lot of mods (hakpak's iirc) with D20 modern stuff and mixed it with some scripts and made couple of modules about Vampire Masquarade thats all i remember. If im not mistaket some did conversion of Rademption. It was long time ago tho, most of them probably don't exist anymore but you can check nwnvault.org and search for yourself.
NWN is cheap as dirt on gog.

>>51985558
Favorite moment would have to be a 1e Mage game I ran in 09. It was the last scene of the last session before a short holiday, and the PC's had just escaped a bound Abyss-tainted spirit of Death that was consuming the spirits and people in the hospice ward. As they make their way to the getaway van driven by the proximus retainer, one of the PC's says that the bomb they set up should go off by the time they escape. The incredulous looks on their faces were only surpassed when they opened the van door to find their proximus bound and gagged on the floor and the local Guardian of the Veil pointing a gun at their heads. The bomb detonates, there is a gunshot, and the session was over.
My players were so excited to find out what happened and keep going, we went to 2 sessions a week when we returned.

>>51985711
>ww as written doesn't work because it needs the huge overarching threat for all the other to band against.

Other huge overarching threats in fiction that have not worked.
>An evil, Star spanning empire hellbent on subjugating a band of plucky rebels.
>An ageless, evil, overlord living in blasted, industrial wasteland who periodically sends his minions out to pillage the world of men.
>Every fictional nazi ever.
>A giant, world-eating cosmic being that the world's superheroes must band together against.
>FINAL FORM SEPHIROTH!

I mean c'mon, man.
>

>>51986696
>you forgot an Imply
>also you're proving my point.

The tribal infighting. Not mention they aren't exactly subtle in their operations. Sorry mate Apco is a product of the 90s get over it. which was the problem of the entire line, and of a couple of them. Vamp had caine waking up. ww had the wyrm. Mage had fuck reality? They line kept threatening the end times but blue balling the reader/player until it was just passing the height of it's popularity.

So at that point they had to destroy the world or renege on the threat. Reneging is the direction I believe nunuwod is going with anyways. With oh it's global warming but not a world shattering thing. Bitch we were promised volcanoes, worldwide plague and darkening of the sky. Not oh its 5 degrees warmer. Fuck that weak ass sauce

>>51987106
How am I proving your point? Galactus never goes away... he never munches the world but he's still out there, waiting to come back. The Empire is never fully vanquished in Star Wars.

Oh, wait. You just said that to sound snide.

>>51985558
>What was your best experience playing oWoD/nWoD/CofD?

i am torn between 2.
The first one was a WtA game. I love it because we relegate fighting the wyrm directly in favor of heavy politicking with the tribes trying our best to drag those inbreed idiots into an fighting force agaisnt a hive. The DM handle punching the banes/fomori/bsd as fade to black. It was awesome to explore the garou nation and how fuck up it is.


The second one was a mage the ascension game. The Dm put a cap in spheres so we got plenty of time to understand and learn what they could do at each level and at the same time, the progression between street game and star-ships in space saving pink triceratops felt natural.

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Mages supremely cute

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>>51985711
namefag, try harder plz

>>51987913
Not entropy mages though

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>>51987945
>Correspondence 2, Entropy 3, Time 2
>pic related

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>>51988072
>Having even 1 dot in entropy

Why the fuck do people care so much about Entropy mages?

>>51988214
jealousy.

>>51987820
Guess you like global warming as the main antag. thats cool mate. I prefer the volcanoes, but if you're happy with slightly more temperate waters who am I to judge

>>51988296
Is the fancy red lavos-y star still in the Umbral Sky?

>>51988296
O... Kay?

>>51988318
Not sure about that one, but what I'm hearing is that it's more haily's comet signalling the end times than the actual threat. But they're also bringing back as old tired plot point. Thats right Its the lost LOST werewolf spirit thingy. oh please nunuww. we've had the lost croatoa the lost werewolf tribes, the lost spirit gods. At this point I think They've Lost the metaplot

>>51988403
It my heart the Red Star will always be the same red star that came to kill the Lizard people. Good ol' Sons of Ether book backing up the Mokole. Which is pretty much the plot to Chrono Trigger.

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>>51988568
The literal son of ether creation

So one of the PCs in my Mage game is a fan of the magicians t.v. show and he's gotten really good at tutting.

So I've made a house rule that if someone actually acts out a rote mudras I'll give them the 9 again on the roll.

The results have been awesome.

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>>51988832
>Roleplaying in a roleplaying game
Think of the children!

Statistically 9again is a small nudge. but psychologically a good motivator. Nice

>>51988890
It's worked out so much better than I hoped for. The amount of meta gaming has dropped. People are actually trying to flesh out their characters.

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>>51988944
>The amount of meta gaming has dropped
Sometimes it's hard to figure out what works for which groups. what else have you tried/done?
I'm curious

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>>51988220
Didn't Voormas nearly succeed at freezing the whole universe by trying to achieve Entropy 7?

I can see why they'd be jealous.

>>51989047
God, I miss Sheikman's art.

>>51989019
I've had great success with just getting the mood right. Light up incense and some candles during a ritual. Play music. Voice acting NPCs.

Also construction paper. Draw out and model if possible the general layout of the area. It helps my group focus on the current situation.

Also embrace hubris. I don't believe you should ever nerf magic you just have to ensure there are consequences for mage-dickery.

Do dice tricks stack? Can you combine 8 again and rote quality?

>>51984669
>Also, relying on an ES is a risky endeavor. ES are hardly guaranteed

I keep hearing / reading that Masters will eventually garner rather "guaranteed" Exceptional Successes after a certain point, assuming they make proper use of their single Reflexive Yantra, etc.
Or maybe not? I'm rather ignorant.

When does this happen, exactly? Or more bluntly, when will said Masters have the capability to flat-out Unmake something / someone by just looking their way?

>>51989231

http://anydice.com/articles/new-world-of-darkness/

have fun

>>51989292
So basically if you're a master you're almost guaranteed an exceptional when casting a praxis? Holy shit.

>>51989490
As a master you can design your own rotes which gain the rote quality on spell rolls.

Mathematically it's superior to craft and cast your own rotes over praxis.

>>51989490
Also remember a master can use unraveling magic to devastating effect. A guaranteed 5 aggravated damage a turn at range is nothing to sneeze at. Especially since RAW means a majority of humanoid target will also suffer the 'Stunned' tilt.

>>51989519
How does the rote math work out? I'm not well versed in statistics.

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Today

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I

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I've been challenged to fill in for a game of VtES on the weekend. What am I getting into?

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will

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remind

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them

>>51989662
Nothing we already don't know mate

>>51989601
A master casting a praxis with default dice pool of 10 w/o using a yantra or spending willpower has a 66.27% chance for an exceptional success.

A master casting a self-made rote under the same conditions has a 72.08% chance for an exceptional success.

However a rote can use a unique mudra yantra which is a potential +5 to the dice pool which you will almost certainly have because you can chose what skill to use as a Rote mudra when you design the spell.

Under the condition in which you're using 15 dice pool with a mudras the probability of an exceptional success goes up to 96.24%

Compared to a praxis 15 dice pool of 89.08%.

And you still haven't used all the tricks up your sleeve!

>>51989147
>Also embrace hubris. I don't believe you should ever nerf magic you just have to ensure there are consequences for mage-dickery.

I am more on the camp of nerfing mages as much as i can as i think necessity is the mother of creativity which i feel awakening lacks.

However i am curious of this approach. Can you share more? If magic must always have consequences, in a narrative enforced way, how do you avoid making every session into a morality play? If all magic will inevitably come back to bite them in the ass, no matter how smart or lucky they are because you as dm enforcemit, then why would they use it?

>>51989798
Jeez.
Masters are properly terrifying.

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>>51989709
>she’s coasting on her own brilliance

>>51989662
>>51989721
>>51989742
>>51989677
>>51989709

While I won't call any of those good, they aren't horrible, either. Seriously, of all the things fucked up with M20, those are fucked up the least. It's like Phil tried to put a layer of tumblr over The Orphan's Survival Guide. Which is a shame, because that's one of the best books that he ever put out.

Seriously, guys. Take Phil out for one last spin around the park, give him a sausage and a pat on the head and then it's off to the vet.

>>51989915
A little too terrifying. It's a little ridiculous especially for gms.

>>51989798

A Rote Mundra can add up to +6 to the roll. The skill is capped at +5, but if using an Order Rote specialty skill, the mage gets another +1.

Also, the Rote Mundra counts against the Yantra limit, and will count as the mage's one reflexive Yantra.

>>51989843
>magic must always have consequences

The consequence don't have to be some physical or spiritual malady befalling the mage. Rather, the consequence is often the mage increasingly viewing other people as mere insects or things. Hubris is a consequence.

>>51989989
>+6
>reflexive Yantra
Masters keep getting scarier the more I hear about them.

>>51989915
10gnosis is very different from 5gnosis

>>51989843
My suggestion is Just take out the bypassing of withstand as an option for exceptional suxs. At five dots the potency of the spell will overwhelm the target's Resistance stat anyways. It's not that much of a nerf because that other options of free reach or a nice condition or a free refund are still pretty good. and it cuts down on the meme-ifcation.

>>51989798
>>51989915
>>51989969
You have to realize, this requires you to be at a minimum of 5 Gnosis, and at that point it can only be done with 1 arcanum, requires a buttload of successes(5 per dot of the arcanum involved in the spell), a lot of mana(1 per roll), loads of time(3 hours per roll, though it need not be done all at once), and an arcane xp to spend.
And if you fail any of the rolls, you have to either start over or take a condition that can't be resolved until you finish making the rote.

Granted, assuming you're using a skill you've got 5 dots in to do this, you have 10 dice. You can't add yantras or anything to this, it's purely arcanum+skill.

And even then, assuming you do succeed, who gives a flying fuck? As a Mage ST, you've signed up for your players to be strong, and you can just throw NPCs at them who ALSO have their own self-made rotes with ridiculous dice pools.

>>51990026
Mages are scary powerful. That's the entire point of the game; given unlimited power, what would you do with it?

>>51989969
1st degree Masters aren't even on the top of the heap. Shit gets way crazier.

>>51990065
>This thing that can ruin games is fine.
Okay. I like mage but you're delusional. This is why people don't even want to touch mage. They have too many to the point of seeing as much play as archmasteries with the exponential growth they have.

>>51990025

Okay but that just depends sorely on the player then. The dm doesnt have any imput on the pc worldview, specially in cases in which the player and dm disagree on the hubris hit.

>>51990158
I've run 30+ player LARPs and never had arguments over Hubris hits, even ones not explicitly listed in the book. And these were /LARPfags/. Do you just have awful players?

A quirk of Mage mechanics is that there is a 'chain reaction' for power gain.

As your character grows in power it's easier to gain arcane beats due to having more obsessions/resolving conditions from exceptional successes. Which means you'll be gaining arcane experience by the boatload after a certain point.

Today i got invited to a friends game of awakening.

My friend is a player but knows the dm for a long time.

Before we started chargen the dm said "look guys i want to run a game of MAGE by this i mean that i know that the system gives you plenty of liberty but try to make your spell feel like magic.

Magic is curse, thunder, zombie or fireballs. Magic isnt "i throw antrax at him" nor it is "i turn his sweet into acid". That just power fantasy god mode wankery"

I will be playing a moros with 3 on matter, anyone can suggest spells that "feel" like magic?

>>51990193

Not particularly but i dropped the whole hubris system and replace it with resonance from ascension.

However i have seen lots of arguments on hubris both here and opp forums

>>51990285
Find a new ST. He's severely gimped you.

>>51990065
This whole post comes across as "I have not read Awakening 2E"

>>51990285
turn people's sweat into BEES

>>51990319
>resonance from ascension
This seems like a better system, but how do you integrate it into NWoD? There are quite a few random bits that use your Morality track.

>>51990065

Are you making up mechanics to make yourself feel better?

Because none of that is how Mage 2e works.

>>51990065
Have you played two 2e? skill yantras add 5 dice to the gnosis+arcana pool. Fucking read the book you goddamn retard. I can't believe I'm arguing with someone defending something he doesn't understand.

>>51990285
That doesn't sound like fun.

>>51990285
Basically the dude wants you to use more classical Magic. I can appreciate what he's asking, but really he should let players do what they want.

A good way to do that and make your powerful at the same time is to take the Shadow Name merit, and then focus all of your spellcasting around that persona. He's being a bit of a dick, to be honest, but really I think he just doesn't want you doing "lolsorandom" magic.
For example, taking an "Alchemist" name would mean that rearranging the fundamental properties and nature of elements would be boosted with a potent Yantra.

With regards to that, some nice "mystical" spells including Shaping (which with reach can turn solid matter "liquid" and cause it to flow, such as making a guy's gun dissolve and then wrap his hand in metal before setting again).

Alter Conductivity is fantastic for "cursing" mechanical devices, or turning objects invisible, or causing people to be electrocuted by their own devices.

Alter Integrity is wonderful for an "alchemist" type character. Render a glass window bulletproof, or render someone's pistol so delicate one shot will cause it to break.

Shrink and Grow is also excellent, can't beat shrinking a tank down the size of a keychain. I'd suggest talking to him about that decreasing object's weight as well though.

Wonderful Machine is the ultimate in modern-mystical practice though. Fusing two different devices together to create an arcane monstrosity. Such as combining a blowtorch and a shotgun to fire super-heated pellets. Or making a flame-knife.

>>51989798

The numbers don't lie. There's a reason why magefags proclaim themselves the strongest players sitting around the table.

>>51990450
He shouldn't be limiting powers he should be enforcing a thematic. It's just dumb.

>>51989843
>>51990025
>>51990158
I'm always for letting mages try to solve their problems with magic, seeing how easy it is to solve the simple, mundane ones and letting it all go to their heads. Like that anon said, there should always be consequences, but not in the sense that everything, everywhere is somehow out to get them. Said consequences don't need to have anything to do with the mages themselves or their lives and they don't have to be negative, simply present. Always ask 'and then what?' from yourself, the setting and your players. See just how deep down the magic rabbit hole your players are willing to go and how long it takes them to no longer recognize themselves and their cabalmates.

>>51990354
>>51990407
>>51990418
You guys might not realise, but that guy's talking about the process for developing a Rote, not casting a spell.

I mean, his stupid fault for not mentioning, but that's how Rote creation works.

>>51990090
Multi-degree Masters would be right behind Archmasters, which are the absolute strongest things playable in the setting.

>>51990495
I get that, but really if you can't get him to change his stance, then make the best of a bad situation.

>>51990515
You have all the time in the world to develop Rotes.
Why make it sound so tough from an OOC perspective? If that was the case, why do Rotes even exist at all?

Rote creation isn't something worthy of the Nobel prize. It's certainly difficult, but not enough to prevent any sort of Master from accomplishing it, or even multiple for that matter.

And once it's done? You're good to go.

>>51990518

After you Master an Arcana, the advantages of mastering one or more Arcana are marginal until archmaster, particularly at the expense of broadening your knowledge of all the Arcana.

Your enemies can only be so dead and vanquished.

>>51985643
>could they also do the same to nightfolk

More than likely, though not with Prime.
I am inclined to believe that Caine would be able to defend himself against the Archmage, but I'm also inclined to believe that he wouldn't be able to, considering how easy it was (only 5-dot effects were used) for the Union to take down the Ravnos Antediluvian.
It's not like anyone can actually challenge an Archmage with sufficient Arete, barring Incarna/Celestines, God and other Archmages.

Yet, even then I'm leery about white-rooming them. Prime 9, like someone else mentioned pre-current thread, is enough to create separate universes in your bare hands.
The Disciplines don't even come close to rivaling that, not by any means.

Just house-rule it.
Or ignore it all, I know I do.

>>51990450
>He's being a bit of a dick, to be honest, but really I think he just doesn't want you doing "lolsorandom" magic.

Basically that. the DM told us that the one thing that he misses from ascension in awakening is thematic magic. That mages in awakening tend to just cast wathever is convenient and it doesnt feel like magic.

He told me that as long as the effect looked magical i can pull off whatever i want (and have the arcanums for).

The example he used was that i cant transform a person sweat in a chemical compound that it explode in contact with the air because i saw that in discovery channel....i think my DM have had a problem player in previous group because thats an oddly specific example.... but that i could just make a potion that is acidic and throw it at him.

>>51990450
>For example, taking an "Alchemist" name would mean that rearranging the fundamental properties and nature of elements would be boosted with a potent Yantra.
>With regards to that, some nice "mystical" spells including Shaping (which with reach can turn solid matter "liquid" and cause it to flow, such as making a guy's gun dissolve and then wrap his hand in metal before setting again).
>Alter Conductivity is fantastic for "cursing" mechanical devices, or turning objects invisible, or causing people to be electrocuted by their own devices.
>Alter Integrity is wonderful for an "alchemist" type character. Render a glass window bulletproof, or render someone's pistol so delicate one shot will cause it to break.
>Shrink and Grow is also excellent, can't beat shrinking a tank down the size of a keychain. I'd suggest talking to him about that decreasing object's weight as well though.
>Wonderful Machine is the ultimate in modern-mystical practice though. Fusing two different devices together to create an arcane monstrosity. Such as combining a blowtorch and a shotgun to fire super-heated pellets. Or making a flame-knife.

Thanks for all the examples anon!

>>51990868
Honestly, I'm inclined to argue that splats in oWod shouldn't really be combined- each splat should have its own separate portrayal of the others, mechanically different- Mages in Mage? Definitely can beat Caine. Mages in Vampire? Can't even hope to.

>>51989662
jesus christ
This is not even a person, just a selection of tropes.

Wanna know what did something like this but better? That gay Nosferatu in the old books

>>51990932
>Mages in Vampire? Can't even hope to.

The Week of Nightmares was within a Masquerade supplement... .... ....

>>51990932
Separate or not, if we go by feats, mechanics and plot-devices, Archmages still shit on Caine as they have better examples of all three.

>>51990354
>>51990407
>>51990418
>>51990515
My bad for assuming for a moment that the people of /cofd/ could draw a logical conclusion based on the mechanics being talked about, or that they'd even read them in the book in the first place.

But no, of course they go straight for 'this guy must be a delusional retard making things up to make himself feel better'

>>51990869
There's an irony in wanting to limit the potential of magic while playing Awakening.

I mean if you're playing a Seer chronicle it could work.

>>51991069
Aaaand that's why I think they should be separate mechanically and fluff-wise, existing in partially separate worlds. Because as a mage, having these incredibly powerful super-mages to look up to is neat- as a vampire, having the First Vampire, inhuman founder of the entire group, Cursed Son of Adam being basically a chump compared not to one person but an entire GROUP of people is unfun and shitty.

In a vampire game, Archmages probably shouldn't exist.

>>51991119
whoops, meant to quote >>51991026
not >>51991069

>>51991026
Or you know, we go by the fact caine was cursed by god ,who created everything and will eventually end reality as we know it, and specified that if ANYONE fucks with caine god Will come down and fuck you up. This is not mechanically quantifiable, fuck with caine and you will end up fucked. The End not because caine can kick an arch mages ass but because hes protected by GOD.

So suck my dick.

>>51991069
This is on you, Anon.

See >>51990515

>>51991195
>Prime 6
>Remove Vampirism
>No more Disciplines for Caine
>Remove seven-fold curse
>Caine is now naked without his apparent armor

It's not a question of whether or not an Archmage can defeat Caine in a fight, because they totally can, it's a question of whether or not an Archmage can challenge God.

And we have no answer to that unless the authors step up.

This whole thing is pointless. It's like Goku vs Superman.

>>51991283

>Archmage vs Caine
Archmage wins

>Superman vs Goku
Superman wins

>>51991283
Question is why would an arch mage and caine even want to fight.

I mean other than i guess that murder hobo urge

>>51991338
Pictured here: a faggot that missed the point

>it's another power level argument

Can you guys just go to reddit or something

>>51991363
Mage faggots keep wantung to jack off in front if everyone

>>51991382
Caine faggots keep wantung to jack off in front if everyone

>>51991195
Does it actually say in any books that God (the WoD character) created everything in that universe? And don't a bunch of the other splats have their own creation myths as well? Why is the one with God more valid than the others?

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Alright, /wodg/

I've always shied away from Sabbat games. I've used them as antagonists, certainly but I've never run a game in the sect. But lately I've gotten tempted, so tell me. How do I do it without having the whole enterprise go completely off of the rails?

>>51991420
None of them say anybody else created everything. They all just have different end-game-power-level-representatives.

>>51991420
You're going to offend all the fat goth Christians, Anon.

I bet they think God is a woman too.

>>51991456
Well that depends- what do you mean by rails? Sabbat Pack structure is heavily based on independence and loyalty to the pack and sect. So holding rails is not going to be easy unless they're a Black Hand Column, and that's not normal Sabbat. The Sabbat do have manipulating Elders, but they rely a lot more on suggestions and subtle manipulation, rather than the direct control the Camarilla tends to have.

>>51991480
But do any of them say God created everything? And if so, why should that fluff be taken any more seriously than the stuff about Gaia and Luna or whatever? Or the shit in Masters of the Art about how Archmages can create universes?

>>51991592
They are NOT WRITTEN WITH COMPATIBILITY. No Demon or Vampire book that talks about God talks about the Triat, for example.

>>51991382
>>51991393

The only difference is that the magefags can actually back up their claims that Archmages would rape Caine.

>>51991626
Similarly, Vampire books talk about demons a lot- and they're NOT the demons presented in Fallen.

>>51991639
But they're still massive, unlikeable faggots.

>>51991626
I know. My specific question is why God is better than everyone else, as that one anon claimed, and is that reason better than "He's God"?

Note that when I say capital G God, I'm referring to the character from Masquerade's lore, not the figure from real-life Christian mythology.

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>>51991497
by off the rails, I mean having my players go nuts and go off on Random killing sprees... like a train jumping off of the rails. These are the players that gave us "Operation: Subtle Van."

>"We need to interrogate the president of the Yacht Club to find the location of this boat."
>"I know! Let's beat up a taxi driver, take his minivan and have the assamite sit in the passenger seat and mute all of the noise while we drive that fucker through the front of the house at 3AM."
>"Sounds like a solid plan!"
>"And then we'll hold his wife over the pavement while we interrogate him."
>Me: "All of you fuckers, humanity checks now."

>>51991729
Yeah that's gonna happen. Random killing sprees are discouraged by the higher ups- expect them to have the Bishop show up angry as hell because they've been drawing too much attention of they do it randomly- but this is a Sabbat game. Murder and violence is something that is GOING to happen, and is perfectly valid. Sabbat start with humanity, but inevitably decline- those Sabbat that live long almost always enter a Path of Enlightenment- alternative forms of immortality better suited for an immortal monster. Sabbat doctrine is focused on violence and aggression to a degree.

Now to avoid becoming Murderhobo; the Vampire, I suggest reading the Guide to the Sabbat (not the Players or Storyteller's guide, mind you), which has some good suggestions on how to run subtler games. And suggestions for Sabbat Character creation. Loud violence should be used tactically however, otherwise they can expect to be sent off as a distraction during a Crusade while more subtle Cainites deal with actually important matters.

(Note- again, superviolence does work as long as it is tactical- one suggested Sabbat tactic for attacking Camarilla Elysium is ramming a chemical-carrying truck through the front door and skeddadling- attracts mortal attention and cleanup, and disables the Elysium- forcing the Camarilla to waste effort maintaining the Masquerade while the Sabbat work

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>>51991456
>VtM

>>51991896

Faggot my old friend

why is the chronicles of fagness so fucking gay

>>51991836
The plan is to start the characters off as a Sabbat Pack, fully self-contained with a priest and a ductus chosen from among the PCs. They'll start on humanity but have the option to jump over to a path because, holy shit that is a thing will have to happen eventually.

>>51991956
Pretentious meta-dick measuring

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>>51991896
You're right, that system never got my pronouns right or let me be clan-fluid to match my gender.

>>51991958
Yeah. Well, it depends on what you want to do. For a properly channeled murder game, throw them in a crusade against another city. For a calmer game, have them deal with politics in a firmly Sabbat city, where violence will get them, as the newest Neonate Pack, beaten the fuck out of. Especially since Sabbat aren't allowed to kill other loyal Sabbat except in Monomacy duels- and those aren't always granted. They'll need to carve out a position while jockeying for status and fighting off any supernatural foes or mortal interference. Could be quite fun.

my mage benis is bigger than your vampire benis

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>>51992000
A humanity 5 or lower vampire getting beaten into torpor? That's not character death but that's pretty close to it.

>>51992005
Meanwhile promethean dicks are so big they cant fit into any orifice.

>>51992013
Oh, they don't need to get beaten into Torpor. Blunt damage incapacitates, and then puts the victim into Torpor only if they take additional damage.

So as long as they use bats, it's just... temporary damage. Now, if I was a pissed off Sabbat Ancillae showing a Neonate why stringing grandmas from the skyline isn't okay and should be kept to Blood Feasts, I'd beat them into incapacitation with a bat- then make them heal themselves. Do that a few times, then forcefeed them their Pack ghoul once they're starving. Doesn't Torpor or kill them, but neatly shows why they shouldn't be such fuckups.

What happens if a vampire get thrown off from a 'lethal height' do they take 10L or 10B? What about if they get hit by a truck?

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>>51992061
Your Jib, sir. I like the cut of it. Time to bring back "the Serbian"

>>51992086
Masquerade side, they'd take ten bashing damage due to blunt trauma resistance and falling is the bluntest trauma.

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I find myself falling in love with a werefag. How do I stop it?

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>>51993000
Magefag here

Show us on the doll where the werefag touched you.

>>51993000
Accept it. Take it into yourself. Love it.

>You will never be maging along when a qt3.14 Get of Fenris crosses your path.
>You will never narrowly avoid killing each other over a misunderstanding.
>You will never become comrades in arms in the face of animosity from your shared enemies.
>She will never help you murderfuck a HITMark V
>You will never help her burninate a wyrm nest you stumble into on the trail of a Nephandus.
>You will never retreat to a secluded cabin in the countryside to bind each other's wounds.
>You will never use your body heat to keep each other warm through the night.
>You will never meet at a roadside dive to celebrate "in the manner of Fenris"
>She will never drink you under the table, elbows interlocked as a a crowd of biker kinfolk cheer on the self-destruction of your livers.
>You will never wake up on her couch with your head in her lap.

Just fuck my shit up.

>>51993174
Nowhere as of yet
>>51993194
But I don't want to love someone who plays the splat made for sexual deviants

>>51993291
Convert her/him. If they like werewolves, to a better splat

If they are a werewolf, to a rug

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>>51993291

>>51991592
>>51990868
Can they do that in actuality though?? Which supplement states that they can create universes?

>>51993710
Master's of the Art

Phil Brucato's greatest mistake.

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>>51993710

>>51993291
So why you playing mage, then?

>>51993809
Are al of the arch spheres in that book or are there others?

>>51993862
Not trying to shit anything I'm just wanting to know a bit more sorry.

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>>51983953

The easiest way is to have Vampire, Hunter and Demon all be the 'truth', and Mages just have a different perspective based on their refusal of religion, and have the Garou be simply ingnorant of the beings they follow being celestial entities on Heavens payroll or Earthbound.

It makes the Mages/Wolves REEEEEEEEEE but as three of the lines agree, it actually winds up being far easier than trying to explain the other way around.

The threads seem a little more lively the last few weeks. I was only away a day. Nice to see.

>>51993809
Brucato didn't write Masters of the Art
In fact, he fucking loathes the Archspheres.

He wrote a thorough rant expressing just how much he hates them.
The normal Spheres are already up-and-beyond Disciplines and Gifts according to him, so the five extra dots are completely unnecessary.

I have the link if anyone is interested

>>51993950
Your "easiest way" just isn't that.

I suggest you take your God fucking religion elsewhere instead of preaching to the other splatfaggots.

>>51990990
>The Week of Nightmares was within a Masquerade supplement... .... ....

Yeah, and the Technocracy had to basically reflect 3 suns' worth of sunlight onto an already-weakened Antedeluvian to kill it, after dropping numerous neutron bombs on it. If the Ravnos antedeluvian hadn't been fighting those Bodhisattvas for several days and nights and hadn't been weakened further by the neutron bombs, the sunlight wouldn't have had nearly as great of an effect. Fortitude 10 and whatnot.

Mechanically, the combined efforts of all those mages *should* have managed to beat the Antedeluvian pretty easily, going by MtAs rules.

But due to the Antedeluvians being the thematic BIG BADS of VtM, it meant that most of the time they might as well have been blowing fairy dust around.

Which I don't mind, even from an Ascension-playing point of view.

I mean, even if I were to play an Archmage (which I don't, and thank goodness my ST doesn't allow that crap), I wouldn't mind if the ST just went "lolnope" if my character tried to instakill all the Antedeluvians or something during the potential Endtimes, even if said Archmage would *technically* have the power to do so.

>>51993968
I laid it as his feet because it was released during his stint as developer.

I would definitely be interested in reading that, though.

>>51993950

>The easiest way is to have Vampire, Hunter and Demon all be the 'truth'

Yeah, this isn't splat biased at all.

>>51993994
>3 suns' worth of sunlight
An even weaker effect than the Spirit Bombs if we go by pre-M20 content.

>If the Ravnos antediluvian hadn't been fighting those Bodhisattvas for several days and nights and hadn't been weakened further by the neutron bombs, the sunlight wouldn't have had nearly as great of an effect.
That's a rather blatant assumption there, as we have no way of knowing this.
Weakened or not, Fortitude should have done the job, but it still didn't.

>Mechanically, the combined efforts of all those mages *should* have managed to beat the Antediluvian pretty easily, going by MtAs rules.
Another reason why I hate the Week of Nightmares, as it shouldn't have been this difficult. Vampires don't get things like Correspondence Wards to stop them from being drone striked into nothingness, and the few that can survive that will be teleported out onto the surface of Mercury by Void Engineers.
It was a Vampire book, so they purposely toned down how ridiculous the Union is in reality. They didn't even use their offworld assets, which include Dyson Spheres and entire planets made of machinery.

>>51993388
It is a possibility
>>51993892
Nothing deviant about playing mage

>>51994000

Here's the Brucato rant.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/mage-the-ascension/391966-re-imagining-the-spheres/page4

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>>51993985
>>51994017

How does bias even factor in? You literally have three splats that all agree on cosmology, and two that are different that don't play nice with the others.

In the metaplot you have crossover events that basically state outright that these splats share their universe. Demon comes into existence due to the metaplot progression and events of Wraith. You have Mages fighting Antediluvians, and I will note not once is it as easy as an Archmage wandering up and saying "I got this, let alone just solving everything and going to cure Caine."

Bitch all you want, but when the metaplot itself has crossovers, there isn't a fucking debate. It's settled, by WW themselves. Even Bloodlines has a Garou in it.

In your personal games? It's no ones business, but whenever anyone talks about this stuff, shouting them down is getting fucking obnoxious.

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>>51994074

As a point reminder; no Arch-Mages were involved in the barbeque of Zapathasura

That artwork tho. Quite epic and moody.

>>51994126
>crossover

Except that this isn't always the case, as much I, you, and others might love the setting, the Old World of Darkness was not particularly well designed mechanically, particularly for crossovers, which were a thing White Wolf waffled about over and over. Sometimes the universes would be assumed to be, somehow, the same one, as in the Week of Nightmares. Other times, like every single Time of Judgement book, they were utterly separate.

Too many contradictions overall, I only ever assume the setting (as a whole) to be "semi-canon" in itself. I see no other way to appropriate this.

>>51994017
>>51993950
The easiest way is to let whatever supplement you're playing have primacy. If you're playing vampire, God is the supreme power. If it's Werewolf, Triat for life, yo... etc. etc.

>>51985558
>What was your best experience playing oWoD/nWoD/CofD?

Coming up with the Court denizens for my game of Changeling the Lost.

>>51994126
>as easy as an Archmage wandering up and saying "I got this, let alone just solving everything and going to cure Caine."

But it IS that easy, if we go by mechanics.

>>51994210 and >>51994256 summed everything else up rather nicely.

>>51994103

Phil Brucato
>"Once I began delving into the Spheres, their power, and the ways in which they differed from Disciplines and Gifts (hint: They're a LOT more powerful, flexible, and open-ended), I decided that Spheres should never go about Rank 5. After all Rank 5 Effects allow you to create human life from nothing (Life 5/ Mind 5/ Spirit 5/ Prime 2), conjure atomic blasts (Forces 5/ Prime 5), disintegrate solid objects by making them unreal (Prime 5), create new souls (Spirit 5), and STACK PLACES ON TOP OF ONE ANOTHER (Correspondence 5). No vampire or werewolf can do that kind of shit, and so the Disciplines, Gifts (which go up only to 6) and Spheres are not even close to equivalent."

Even Brucato is a Mage supremacist.

>>51994074
>>51993994
>>51994151

Didn't the Ravnos Antediluvian just basically get up from his torpor? Doesn't that tend to mean they're at their weakest? I mean, it's like that for regular vampires from what I recall, no idea what the rules are for the Antediluvian.

>>51994474

Yes, that would be how Torpor works. But it still shouldn't have prevented the use of Fortitude.

That's the power of WW writing.

>>51994520
When you consider how much it took to kill him, I think his Fortitude was firing on all eight cylinders.

>>51994610
Yet it didn't stop the Union from having the final say in the encounter.

They only used the Spirit Bombs to take out the three Bodhisattvas blocking the sun using their latent magics.
The sun rays were an afterthought.

It was a horrible supplement, as it shouldn't have been so dramatic. They made both sides look like fucking morons.

>>51994640

What was the Kuei Jin's beef with the Ravnos Antediluvian anyway?

I know they have history with Saulot, but I can't remember if anything was said about Zapathasura.

>>51994520
>>51994474

Ravnos had the most powerful ability in all of the old WOD - Metaplot Armor.

>>51994655

Ravnos woke up wand wanted some damn spicy curry.

Shit happened.

>>51994668

Metaplot so bad it literally protects characters from game-mechanics.

How can you plebs even stand the classic setting?

>>51993948
Masters of the Art contains all the arch-Spheres. There is also a tidbit in Horizon: Stronghold of Hope, but it's far less extensive compared to the former.

These abilities are universe breaking (compared to the world breaking Antediluvians) and shouldn't be used unless your story demands it, which will probably be never.

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Stat us, /wodg/

>>51994210
>options for end-time scenarios whether you are playing crossovers or a focused game are totally the same thing as a canon storyline event that had effects across the game line, even launching a whole new one.

I get what you are saying, but whether you like Week of Nighmares or not, it was a story event right in the middle of the series, not basically an ending slide of your choice. It's completely canon in WW's original 'coming apocalypse' storyline that underpinned the entire game-line. There is nothing semi canon about it. It's just canon that you can choose to ignore in your own personal games, just like everything else in any splat.

It's people not liking these narrative choices that resulted in CofE having fuck all metaplot, people missing the cool bits of said metaplot and the characters, and why we not have WoD-lite and experimental concept (Beast) devision, and the totally the original World of Darkness where the end was actually way overstated and please support our soft-reboot.

The entire state of World of Darkness is a source of irritation, to the point that only some decent netflix shows and video games can be a balm. I have no hope for new splats and writing, because they seem to be hiring snowflakes and the sort of people who last a single session in a normal gaming group.

>>51994000

It was the second book after he left, actually.

>>51994683

Because we don't rely on the mechanics of our favorite splats making our snowflakes into unchallenged gods (off screen, because no sane GM will let a typical player have that sort of power) so we can win 'Goku vs Superman' arguments of spanish netball boards. We enjoy the storyline, characters, and different themes within the splats.

I am sorry for you though, that the writers of the meta plot didn't kneel before magefaggotry and actually made them put some effort into into destroying what even weak from torpor is supposed to be basically a world-breaking blood-god monster that makes even the oldest of vampires and their entire society shuffle with discomfort at the mere idea they could exist.

>>51995328

>There is nothing semi canon about it

The whole setting for the Classic World of Darkness is just that, though. Sorry. The metaplot never added up. And it never will.

>>51995366

And yet it will still be better than anything that Requiem has produced thus far.

Because while you can ignore parts of Dark Ages/Masquerade you don't like in your games, there's nothing about Requiem to be ignored in the first place.

>>51995354
Well I just got checked by DaveB.

Fuck my life.

>>51995366
>The whole setting for the Classic World of Darkness is just that, though. Sorry. The metaplot never added up. And it never will.

'It doesn't make sense' isn't an argument. Sorry.

>>51995405

I'm sorry that the oWoD isn't as perfect as you seem to think it is.

You're right to your own opinions, trying to connect the lines is admirable, but at least acknowledge that you're in the minority here.

Somebody recommended "The Originals" when I asked for WoD-like vampire fiction as a good display of Elders.

Fuck you very much.

The Mikaelsons are a bunch of utter bitches getting tugged around by the most uppity bunch of shits ever. I'm 90 minutes into this series, and while Marcel comes across as a decent Prince, the supposed Original vampires are utterly spineless save for Klaus, and even he's a bit of an idiot. Every important character other than them has insulted, mocked, defied, or made them into puppets, to their faces, and so far the only time they did fucking anything about it led to the one in question getting thrown around by a tantruming teenage snot with telekinesis.

This is pathetic. And spoilers indicate it just gets worse.

These are an utterly sorry excuse for vampiric elders. Neonates might act like this, maybe.

I'm genuinely infuriated at how utterly my expectations have been pissed on.

>>51995411
>implying I don't love it, warts and all.

Sure, I probably am in the minority, because everyone else who shares the opinions (and facts I laid out) are elsewhere, got shouted down by magefags and CofEtards, or moved onto other fandoms when oWoD 'died'. I expect to make some new friends as OWoD progresses.

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Daily reminder that this man slaughtered Oracles and Archmages in his ending.

>>51995423
So yeah, fuck the guy who recommended this trash. I expected decent vampiric drama- instead I got 1000 year old pussies lead by an idiot getting the fuck beaten out of them by everyone to protect a werewolf with the personality of a flat tire.

The Originals, even worse, has promise. The plots are decently intricate, the family drama is neat if a bit pathetic, and other than his role in pissing on the Originals, Marcel is a genuinely good portrayal of a vampiric ruler.

But it is just so let down by how utterly pathetic the Originals are, and how everyone and their mother controls or bests them. I'd rather watch twilight. At least those vampires are horrifying, even if unintentionally.

>>51995423

People liked them initially because they put the fucking spoilted and (as much as I hate to use the word) entitled fuckers from the Vampire Diaries in their places, constantly. When they got their own show, they inherited the storytelling method of the former, where everyone is constantly reacting, and no body ever takes decisive action.

Klaus is interesting as a concept, so is Elijah, but because they basically live in a status quo scenario, they are never allowed to be anything but passive and somewhat dumb. Their characters would be far better in a HBO series, where they could just kill the shit out of mouthy fucks.

>>51995423
>>51995461
>it's a we made characters who used to be villains into the heroes episode.

The natural consequence putting unkillable monsters in a leading roll, and actually want a supporting cast you don't have to replace every mid-season, is that they are going to be dim and ineffective.

>>51995443

Al-Aswad, better known as the Unnamed, was an Aswadim Archmage and Qlippothic Oracle.

In his End Times scenario, he managed to blacken the universe and call upon countless insanities and lovecraftian horrors upon the earth like a plague.

He's also the only stated Mage with a Sphere reaching 10 dots.

>Correspondence 6, Entropy 10, Forces 5, Life 5, Matter 5, Mind 7, Prime 8, Spirit 8, Time 5

A thorough badass, through and through.

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>>51995411
Do you have any argument other than "I'm the snarkiest motherfucker in the world!"...

...Aspel.

>>51985711
Life in the Garou Nation. This is why this game blows forsaken out of the water.

>>51994655
>What was the Kuei Jin's beef with the Ravnos Antediluvian anyway?

The same as everyone else's beef, pretty much. That is to say "CHRIST (OR BUDDHA) ON A POGOSTICK, WHAT IS THAT THING?! IT'S WREAKING PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL HAVOC! KILL IT! KILL IT NAOOOOO!".

When a monster of that magnitude wakes up, it's *hungry*. And since leaving said Blood God to its own devices was seen by everyone as being a very, very, very bad idea, they all did their best to take it out.

But yeah, the Kuei-Jin and the Ravnos had been battling it out in India for some time. What led to the week of Nightmares was that the Ravnos began mass-embracing out of desperation to quell the invading Kuei-Jin, sending out their wannabe-Shovelheads to die in droves. The survivors then performed mass-embraces of their own, and so on and on until thousands of vampires fed the land of India with their blood.

But that wasn't what woke the Antedeluvian: all that blood was too thin to even stir the Ravnos progenitor. Instead, all that high-generation Ravnos blood woke up several ancient Ravnos Methuselahs, who fed their thirst by drinking plenty of high-gen Ravnos dry, and then joined the fight against the Kuei-Jin.

And when *those* Methuselahs fought and died, the Ravnos Antedeluvian smelled their potent blood, and woke up.

It then gorged itself on its childer and grandchilder, and that's when the Kuei-Jin Bodhisattvas arrived and the REAL fighting began.

>>51995488
Funnily enough, with risk of starting something, there was a previous wank-battle around two years ago with Caine vs The Unnamed.

Needless to say Caine lost.

What a great community we have here.

Power wanking magefags
Bullied Changeling fags
Fat goth chicks
Caine loyalists
Furfags
Knots
Ignored demonfags
Nearly extinct Promethean players
Mythical Mummy players
Komodo Dragons

>>51995558
Please, do shut up.

>>51995644
Yeah, these threads are shit and frankly useless unless you like Mage.

But who could forget our dearly beloved Aspel

>>51995644
>Bullied Changeling fags
>Ignored demonfags
>Nearly extinct Promethean players
>Mythical Mummy players
Can't help it if no one plays those splats. I would play them if I could find a group willing to play though

>>51995665
>unless you like Mage.

I like Mage, and I still find these threads to be the MOST useless when the usual magewanking begins like fucking clockwork.

>>51995644
>What a great community we have here.

You forgot those ex-Amish guys that can beat anything and everyone with their cell phones

>>51995674
Prometheans and mummys don't get played. Promethean is better as a story. Mummy is just so blah. I love the way it's powers and themes work but the entire sleep cycle bullshit is just not good for playing.

I'm hesitating between the Book of Madness and the Left Handed Path, any feedback on thoses ? I like both Mages, ans it's for a PoD.

>>51996590

Book of madness then, it has the best system for infernal pact i ever seen.

Left handed path is good to, however as POD it has recycle art and is not as useful considering 2nd.

>>51995512
>>51995666

It's almost two months, Satan, and they haven't appeared once. At this point, I'm willing to accept that they actually did it, they left the General like they always said they could and sought sunlight.

Anybody know what's happening in Houston or Miami in VTM? Thinking of using one of those as a contested city between the Sabbat and Camarilla.

>>51997088
I think Miami is solidly in the hands of the Sabbat. I dunno about Hudson.

>>51997088
Texas is a sabbat state afaik

Can someone explain Conditions and Magic to me?

Take the 'Blind' condition. As I understand it the normal condition would apply if say the room was pitch-black or filled with irritating smoke and the persistent variant would mean you've been physically blinded by damage to your eyes.

You can apply mundane conditions with a two dot practice and a persistent condition with a four dot practice.

However, both will end when the spell ends so whats the difference between blinding someone with say Life 2 vs Life 4?

>>51997597
Life 2 could be resolved by wiping your eyes, or something along those lines. Life 4 would stick around until the spell ended.

>>51997653
Ah that makes sense so a 2 dot practice would have a way to resolve the condition but a 4 dot can't be removed by mundane means.

>>51997568
Meerlinda has her main Chantry in Dallas, and at least as of CotN, the majority of Texas is Camarilla territory, albeit contested

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Where were you when a Tzimisce broke the Masquerade?

>>51995399
Aw, don't feel bad. Phil *did* write the earlier version of archspheres that was in Horizon: Stronghold of Hope, which IIRC he now regrets doing, so you were right in spirit.

Ahh, Masters of the Art. One of the weird end-of-second-ed supplements after Phil left, before Jesse's team had finished Mage Revised. It came out just as a character in my Ascension chronicle achieved Correspondence 6, and we checked it out... And found that Corr 6 is virtually useless.

MotA did come in handy when we were doing Imperial Mysteries, though. Step 1: have a reason archmages don't solve everything. Step 2: Have Imperial Practices do something worthwhile with every dot.

I think it was MotA that defined the diference between a Bodhissatva and an Oracle, though, and intro'd the idea that cWoD archmasters are less likely to Ascend, not more. Interesting background material, no so much fun to play.

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>>51995512
>Life in the Garou Nation. This is why this game blows forsaken out of the water.
take out apoc out of wwapoc and you have forsaken

>>51990868
Yeah but remember that killing Ravnos caused the Avatar Storm, and they still needed to use satellites to beam sunlight on him; that's how powerful the second weakest Ante was

>>51999022
>that killing Ravnos caused the Avatar Storm
More like killing Ravnos awakened the entire earth with some kinda annoying side effects on the umbra for a while.

>>51998971
>Interesting background material, no so much fun to play.

It also sadly firmly cemented the "mage supremacy" meme that will likely never die. I really don't envy the developer or authors of the Mage sections in the upcoming Crossover Chronicles.

Speaking of Imperial Mysteries, will Signs of Sorcery contain any updates to make it compatible with 2e? I believe you indicated quite a while ago that the rules wouldn't require too much tweaking.

>>51999022
>they still needed to use satellites to beam sunlight on him

However, all Technocratic archmasters were seemingly all simultaneously on a corporate retreat and incommunicado in the deep umbra or otherwise unavailable during the entire battle.

Wasn't that convenient...

As another Anon mentioned earlier, the most powerful ability of the Antes was Metaplot Immunity(tm).

>>51995674
CtL was the first splat I ever read. Its still my favorite, since it feels so nicely mythic in nature.

>>51999228
CtD was my favourite, and I get bullied all the time for it.

>>51996679
It was my sentiment for Left handed path, I'll grab a pdf and wait for a 2e book.

>>51999396
ops pastebin has every book. Just see what you think is better and buy it.

>>51991729
Sabbat are not murderhobos, that's what the camarilla thinks...and what the sabbat wants them to think.
wheneaver you see a sabbat pack acting like that they are usually in a camarilla city causing trouble for the local prince, by orders of the priscus most likely, they actually like to keep order in their own cities.
also losing humanity is not discouraging for the sabbat.

>>51999412
I know, but I have so much WW/OPP books that I grab a PoD from time to time to calm that collector's obsession.

>>51993968
>He wrote a thorough rant expressing just how much he hates them.
>The normal Spheres are already up-and-beyond Disciplines and Gifts according to him, so the five extra dots are completely unnecessary.
>I have the link if anyone is interested

please share the brucatto madness.

>>51999071
>I really don't envy the developer or authors of the Mage sections in the upcoming Crossover Chronicles.

I am hoping they grab the nerf hammer and break Mage kneecaps with it. It is my wet dream.

>>51999415

Try to sell that nuance to PCs in a sabbat game is challenging.

>>51999071
Ask yourself do you really want a game with Arch-mage PCs?

>>52000184
Not at chargen, but if I play long enough I certainly want it to be an end game option and Arch-mage pc is more satisfying then a fade to black as you ride off into Ascension.

>>51985101
>>51984978

D... did i just got a warn for N word? That's a first. Also it was contextual so no that wasn't a bot.

Fine tho, I know, dindus did nothing wrong, blue board and all but hell if that's no a first i ever had and im shitposting on /tg/ for almost a decade now.

>>51991026
>>51991283
>guy literally tells you that in Vampire verse Archmages have no hope against Caine
>lol fukk u we r winnar

Are all magefags this stupid?

>>52000208
Ascension is technically the end of an Awakening game as well. There are some stopgap rules in the core, combined with imperial mysteries it should tide you over until something more official comes out.

>>52000184
>Ask yourself do you really want a game with Arch-mage PCs?

Archmages and mages are different splats and are not designed to interact with each other as PC's.

However, I see nothing wrong with having the option to run an archmage chronicle, or *appropriately* use archmages in regular chronicles.

>>52000212
Retard mods have taken over, only safe places are the mad ones

>>51998971

Since the topic is Archmastery, I recall you saying you had the notes on how to do MtAw 2e Archmastery. Will it come out in a book or as a blog post?
Will it have attainments as well?

>>52000367
>Will it have attainments as well?

Archmaster Attainments, because access to Imperial Practices, Imperial Spell Factors, and Gnosis and Arcana ratings at 6+, just isn't powerful enough...

>>52000554

Yeah, because "powerful" is really something Mage has to be worried about being...

Anyway... I could see Imperial Dispellation as an attainment. The creation of those sentient artifacts, ochema and chantries as well.

>>52000655

That's an understatement.

An Archmaster of Spirit could become peer to Luna or Helios and eventually supersede them.

If that doesn't terrify than I don't know what to tell you.

>>52000743
>TFW you become the new werewolf god and tell them they can't knot people anymore.

>>52000782

Spirit 8 Attainment: Knot Anymore

>>52000782
if luna wont take the Idigam wolf asshole then what makes you think she'll take your pathetic impotent shriveled mage cock?

>>51999022

Killing the Ravnos Antediluvian didn't cause the Avatar Storm, it was an amalgam of a bunch of other things. The Week of Nightmares was only a pie slice of it.

>>52000131

Mage Supremacy forever!

So how exactly do changelings interact with the onieros?

>>52001641
Dave, it spellcasting a subject to penalties from sources which can disrupt ability to concentrate, or mages are above pain and other things?

>>52001641
Acanthus Supremacy for the win!

>>52001641
is there any way that a mage can resist the knot?

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>>52001641

>Vampire Supremacy

fix'ff fat for fu

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>>52001641
Someone is just going to save this like last time.

I know I will.

>>52001686
Subject to them, including wound penalties.

>>52001641

Since this Mage...

Mage Supremacy never was, always has been, and will be forever, unless it's not.

Has the developer been announced for the Crossover Chronicles?

>>52001641

Why do you help people keep shitposting in the thread?

>>52001870

This is 4chan

>>52001870
>Why do you help people keep shitposting in the thread?

That particular shitposter in your link is Dave Brookshaw, the actual developer of Mage 2e, and since you obviously missed it, as always, he was being very sarcastic about the topic.

>>52001916

>implying shitposters care whether he was sarcastic or not

We both know they'll use anything to just stir up shit.

What's even more bothersome is that their tune hasn't changed in a long time, but people keep responding to them.

>>52001929

Oh, get over it.

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>>52001870

>>52001870
>>52001929

/tg/ is some serious shit

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>>52001641

>>52002335
>Komodo dragon supremacy

>>52002335
>>52002400

>Reptilian Mage Supremacy

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>>52002578
We all know what happened to the reptilian mages.
>Source Sons of Ether and Mokole books

>>52002774

he he

get fucked

coldbloods

It's a good time to be a magefag

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>>52003034

Say you know another Mage's Sympathetic Name, how would you best exploit this information to make use of him?

Threaten to share it with pretty much everyone unless he does you a service?
Then keep doing so until he either tells you to get fucked or tries to get the Consilium to intervene?

>>52003034
>>52003080

why?

considering the nWoD mage was/is a mistake

>>52003124

Mage is the best. So it's impossible for it to be a mistake.

>>52003175

no, nWoD Mage is crap

if oWoD Mage is the stuff you talking about then ill agree with you very much

>>52003112
>>52003112

>share

No, its like telling all you friends you wank two times a day, everyone will laugh at you and call you names but because everyone is actually doing it behind the doors what diffrerecne does it make.

Shit, summon some really dirty shit from Beyond and all or whatever hell you go with there buddy and sell it to them for the highest bidder.

Look as your enemy Mage shits his pants.

>>52003112
You don't need a mage's true name to fuck him over. It just makes it a lot easier.

Do you really want to start that kind of shit fight though? Threatening other Mages is not going to win you friends at your local Council worst case scenario you'll be branded as some sort of left-handed nut and you'll have to deal with Guardian/Arrow kill teams.

>>52003218
>oWoD Mage

You pleb

>>52003242

>pleb

You are lost to me, son.

Don't talk to me ever again.

I can't bear it, you were the chosen one and now you diverged from your holy path into bowels of animalistic degeneration. You filthy degenerate!

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>>51994367

>"Once I began delving into the Spheres, their power, and the ways in which they differed from Disciplines and Gifts (hint: They're a LOT more powerful, flexible, and open-ended), I decided that Spheres should never go about Rank 5. After all Rank 5 Effects allow you to create human life from nothing (Life 5/ Mind 5/ Spirit 5/ Prime 2), conjure atomic blasts (Forces 5/ Prime 5), disintegrate solid objects by making them unreal (Prime 5), create new souls (Spirit 5), and STACK PLACES ON TOP OF ONE ANOTHER (Correspondence 5). No vampire or werewolf can do that kind of shit, and so the Disciplines, Gifts (which go up only to 6) and Spheres are not even close to equivalent."

How do you even Narrate such thing, i mean beside just fucking them over with ridiculous amount of Paradox? I never gotten more than 3 on my players desu

>>51985421
https://youtu.be/e8BFGcncxso

>>52003641

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7aHOsxFP4w

Question about apocalypse. We know what happens when a tribe consists only of wolves (Red Talons). What happens if a tribe consists only of humans?

>>51995527
It was bad enough THREE. THREE of their most ancient and venerable Methuselah-equivalents went to battle. The fucking fight wrecked Bangladesh even BEFORE spirit nukes and sunlight.

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>>52003277

>>51985421
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plsM4f1SC4M

Daily reminder that Archmages are the absolute best things to ever exist in both oWoD and nWoD.

>>52003722
To be honest the whole incident sounds kind of dumb.

>>52003778
Not saying it wasn't, but people seem to forget that the fight lasted for 3 days of 3 4th Gen equivalents vs. the weakest, just out of torpor, Ante, plus all the other junk involved.

>>52001641
Please die in a fire.

>>52003811
You would still expect a bit more destruction though, considering what we saw during Gehenna.
I also didn't like how easy it was for the Union to stop Zapathasura. Even worse was how ham they went.

>"Three elders conjured a storm to block our sunlight"
>"Better go full-out 'Murica' and bomb India then."
>"That is our only solution."

So fucking stupid.
It's literally the opening of Team America but with India and magic-science.

You know, I had been thinking of playing Mage.

This thread has killed that desire, because if this kind of trash is the sorta players Mage creates, then I want nothing to do with it.

>>52003950
>Letting 4chan dictate your actions

You need some help.

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>>52003950

here's your (You)

Hey /cofd/gen, its me, Shada. You know, the Jojo hack writer for CofD. I'm working on a thing, a so called "Z" splat for my project. Basically its a Bloodline thing, but for Potential havers instead of Kindred.

Problem is that I'm not feeling terribly... inspired?

Gonna leave a link with Comments enabled in case people have ideas

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-rjX5eJxG40r0vFTmQzocyEc3t9QdS1qv1ROma8EgBg/edit?usp=sharing


And for the rest of it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HoCgoLAnK2blvtrin4hFRK32LF2l4VbSZtnA6UxU84w/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers all

>>52003950
You are a terribly unimaginative and uninspired person if a bunch of shitposters on /tg/ can ruin an entire game for you

>>52003950
This is nothing. My roommate once held the world hostage with three dots over two spheres or whatever. He took a one foot tube and a 1 pound ball of iron. Put ball in tube, enchant ends to be portals to each other, seal tube, remove all air from it. With no air resistance, the ball has no terminal velocity. End the spells and you get a nuke.
Said character never intended to hold the world hostage, she just built it as a proof of concept. And then used it as a paperweight on her desk for 13 years. Nobody was willing to attack her, and would in fact defend her from violence. The player was so proud of himself.

>>52004398

That wouldn't be enough to hold the world hostage.

>>52003717
>What happens if a tribe consists only of humans?

Depends on the tribe's political views... a tribe is in and of itself not set in stone, since werewolves can change tribes without much fanfare (often due to differing political views and such), so a human-only tribe could feasibly exist. I mean, the Glass Walkers are close to being Homid-only already.

But let's not forget, there's a reason most other tribes look down on the Red Talons, and it's because they're seen as deluded champions of Gaia. Every werewolf with two braincells to rub together knows that if all humans were to die out, it'd mean the end the Garou everywhere and the world being thrown into even greater imbalance because the Garou need both animals and humans to survive.

The reason why the Red Talons are tolerated in spite of their irrational anti-human views is because there's a fuckton of humans around, to the point where they're choking out the rest of the planet's wildlife. So even when the Red Talons go on a killing spree, even if the other tribes don't like it, it doesn't really change much in the long run.

If a human-only tribe tried to do the opposite of the Red Talons ("hey, let's kill the few remaining wolves!") they'd be seen as Wyrm-tainted and insane, at BEST, and would quickly get killed off.

But yeah, so long as *one* tribe still maintained a decent population of animal kinfolk, all the other tribes could theoretically be homid-only.

>>52004438
rods from god my son, rods from god

>>52004398
Without a magic tube that wouldn't really work.

>>52004398
.... you know, I'm not even mad. Thats actually a really neat idea. Too bad you'd probably need Prime 4 to do it, maybe Space 4, but its still a neat idea

>>52004398
You're overestimating Ascension.

Also, why hold the world hostage? You could hold the entire goddamn universe hostage using Forces 9, instead.

>>52004501
>hold the universe hostage
You mean like this?

>Archmage Time 4 hangs Forces 9 Obliterate Universe spell
>Sets Entropy 2 conditional trigger to set loose upon his death or any attempts at magical hampering
>Forces the universe to worship him as the new God-Emperor of the Galactic Mage Imperium
>A new glorious age of Mage supremacy has begun

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD

>>52004398
Well firstly that's an entirely retarded concept, and not nearly as original as they think.
Everyone goes through the stage of thinking an infinite-mass cannon is a useful thing to have on hand.

Secondly, the plan has a number of issues
1. That's going to invite some serious paradox
2. Move the tube, and the ball hits the walls. Goodbye tube.
3. You're running under an assumption that you've created an infinite energy device. Which a GM can easily refute by saying that the sphere runs out of potential energy. Dispute on a physics basis? Fuck you Anon, consensual reality.
4. Increasing the velocity of the sphere increases its mass with regards to special relativity, ensuring that you're sitting on a time bomb. As it increases in speed, its mass will increase to such levels that its gravity will be sufficient to collapse the tube. In a bit over 23 years? It would have reached light speed.
5. The earth isn't the only object which applies gravitational influences on the sphere. Over many hundreds of kilometers of falling, the minor influences from other bodies would likely bring it off center without further stabilisation, causing it to collide with the walls of the tube.
6. (It's been a while since High School physics, so I might be wrong), but wouldn't you also have to deal with the problem of induction? That sphere's moving through the earth's magnetic field, and effectively oscilating as it's travelling back and forth over and over.
7. In addition, any form of non-magical stabilisation will also likely involve magnetic fields, which will also cause the aforementioned induction problem.

>>52004614
>murdered by one of the many insane forces in the WoD that'd love the world to end
>world ends
>good going mage, God complains, as he remakes everything from the start, carefully deleting Archmastery

>>52004734

let the boy have his funs my friend, let the boy have funs

>>52004773
That is the exact opposite of this thread's purpose, you realize

>>51985421
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp1mVNOB5tg

>>52004748
>murdered by one of the many insane forces in the WoD that'd love the world to end
What, like the Nephandi and their lovecraftian bros?

>world ends
I think you mean the universe

>God complains
Implying he supersedes the other game-lines

>>52004748

is the god even alive in the universe at this point in oWoD, i mean as End Times approaches. Seems to be he just said fuck it

and yeah, i know hunters and cursed Cain and all that jazz, my curses and powers also outlived my characters many times over so who knows, shit might be working like always but big D is gone

>>52004773
If you want to have fun with magic, I'll let you have fun with magic.

If you want to try and use magic to debase physical principles to gain ludicrous power?
I'll make you fucking suffer for it, and suck any iota of fun you would derive from the process, while ultimately ensuring that you waste your own time over and over until you realise you're not nearly as clever as you think you are, and sit down a play a game about fucking mages.

Bringing that retarded engineering bullshit into my game about mages.
For shame Anon, for shame.

>>52004806

stop it already, it was funny first time

now you just think you will make yourself look cool and funky because you have such good taste in jungle noises music, im right anon?

>>52004821

fair point

>>52004614

Hmm, I tend to ignore anything Mage, but this seems legit and overpowered as all hell.

But why would the Archmage even want to conquer the universe like Emperor Palpatine?

>>52004837
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czTksCF6X8Y

>>52004859
Quiet from living outside of the universe for decades if not centuries.Who knows what reality even looks like to them at that point.

>>52004614
That's not even the tip of the iceberg.

Combine Prime 9 with Forces 9 and you can create an infinite amount of universes by turning the present universe into a multiverse, or perhaps even further than that.

Never mix the Archspheres.

>>52004859
My question is- how can multiple Archmages exist when they can all end the world/universe at will

and how can any threat that isn't an archmage exist without being destroyed

archmages are retarded

>>52004919
>Turning universes into multiverses
Don't forget that Prime 9 Archmages are Omnipotent within their personal universes, with their knowledge of the Spheres as the only limitation.

Might as well label the Archmage as God.

>>52004926
Why do you think that the scarce few Archmages who have reached the level of power you postulate would give a singular fuck about non-Archmage threats, or destroying the world/universe?

Also the other explanation is that they have.
A few billion times over.
But then someone makes it again.

Perhaps the world came into existence 5 minutes ago?
Would you be able to tell? Does it matter? Even if it matters, does it matter that it matters?

>>52004969
Or, or

we could just not have archmages

and not have to come up with exceedingly reaching explanations for why they haven't done anything of consequence with their unlimited power

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>>52005000
Your game Anon, choose what you want.

Oh wait, nobody here gives a fuck about what they themselves choose, they just want to judge other people's game choices, and complain eternally about problems, never accepting solutions.

>>52005000
>and not have to come up with exceedingly reaching explanations for why they haven't done anything of consequence with their unlimited power
The same could be said of Caine in vampire. But then you're basically just arguing not having any meta plot or existing npcs is better.

>>52004919
Why do people even argue that Caine stands a chance against beings that can do shit like this?

Why does anything even exist at all? The powers described border on the level of "true" god like, as in the powers of creation and negation and so much more.

>>52005027
>The same could be said of Caine in vampire
Does Caine have any defined powers that can affect the entire universe?
The 10 dot Disciplines don't really do much besides "breaking the earth", while the Archspheres can already determine the fate of the whole Tellurian at 7 dots, such as Voormas attempting to halt the wheel of the cosmos.

>>52005023
That's what I do, definitely. But, on the other hand- it's really hard to not get mad at archmages here given that basically any discussion leads to half the thread popping up ARCHMAGE SUPREMACY BETTER THAN YOUUUUU

I mean, yes, within the rules they're insanely powerful, but it's retarded.

>>52005027
Caine is a single character who may not exist and has nebulous powers, and is explicitly inferior to the creator God.

He's not an entire class of people designed to be omnipotent at higher levels. I can accept a single, defined individual having reasons to not fuck everything- but when there is an entire CLASSIFICATION of people who can do MORE it becomes hard to justify why they never do anything. Hell, Caine's done more than Archmages. Yes you can argue in circles with BUT WHAT IF THEY DID AND YOU DIDN'T NOTICE but if they don't have any effect on the setting beyond being a power fantasy for players or an I WIN button for storytellers/internet people, who good are they?

>>52005027

I wouldn't compare Caine to high-Arete Archmages. Not after reading the past two threads.

>>52005154
>Hell, Caine's done more than Archmages

In terms of relevant storytelling, sure.
In terms of capability, nah.
In terms of parenting skills, fuck no.
In terms of cool factor, of course!

>>52005154
This is why Narchmages are better. They are doing shit all the time you'll just never notice if they do it right. Plus they have reasonable incentives to not accidentally the everything.

why does every thread get hijacked by people who either don't understand why their bullshit doesn't work in mage or by people who don't understand why Archmages can't do fucking everything without getting killed by one of the infinite other bigger fishes or at least taking a few centuries to prep?

>>52005619
>infinite other bigger fishes
Like what?

>why their bullshit doesn't work in mage
It's all RAW

>few centuries to prep
It doesn't take a few centuries to prepare, it takes a few centuries to reach archmage status, at least in oWoD.

>>52005660
Father Wolf. Luna. Gaia. Any rank 6 or higher Abyssal Entity. Any of the fucking Exarchs.

And no, its not RAW, its people pretending they know what the hell is written when they can't fucking see that their amazing "plans" need higher arcanas to the point where "Literally Why" or "The consilium notes you are making a magic dirty bomb, but they realize that physics either doesn't work that way and you'll figure that out soon enough, or they can send a fucking Interfector to scoop out your brains"

And in Old World you really don't have an excuse to say "Like what" to the bigger fish comment. First off you have the fucking collective will of sleepers, which makes magic not only difficult but fucking impossible and eventually able to revert if the effect isn't what we'd call "Lasting" in nWoD. Then you have spirits who aren't happy with your bullshit who can fucking put up with you in a fight, or just the fact you'll probably die, spectacularly, if you get enough paradox. And guess what is really fucking easy to get if your GM has at least 3 brain cells to rub together?

Fuck you and fuck everyone like you you dumb bitch. I bet people like you think The God Machine is Omnipresent and Omniscient.

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>>52005781

I'm convinced you people are a lie the Exarchs have placed in front of me to make it so Mage can't ever be a game with a healthy fanbase

>>52005872
Yeah yeah, well this shit happens every thread and I was bound to go off eventually

But at least I get to say that other people were either literally retarded or pretending to be retarded, even if I am mad

>>52005781

Did you even read the current thread?

>>52005781
Most of those entities you mentioned can be surpassed by sufficiently powerful Seekers.

The rest can be at least equalled by Ascending.

Not so sure about the Exarchs, as they seem to be above-and-beyond everything except for perhaps the Principle.

>>52005781
>Father Wolf doing anything other than being a nice seat for one of the Malejin
Fucking Kek

>>52006111

>>52005887
Nah, you're just one big fucking Mage hater.