Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>51979282
I think that achieving comfy is possible but it is also an overused buzzword.

Molthune knights did this.

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Third for best race.

>>51979359
No, the PLAYERS of Molthune Knights did this. Grape ice cream rest in peace.

>>51979434
>Not going barefoot

What is this barbarity? Golarion has ruined Kasathan culture!

>>51979282
Two player campaign.

>>51979282
>What is "comfy" to you? How do you inject "comfy" into your games and characters?

A warm cottage with blankets, hot tea and a stew bubbling on the fire. But the cottage is actually the machination of a kindly fey who dislikes seeing people but uncomfortable in the wilderness. The stew tastes just perfect for the eater. A recurring thing in my campaigns.

>>51979448
I mean using it as a buzzword. It's all the sadder if the players actually managed to achieve it.

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>>51979472
>Iconic soldier is a kasatha
My dick is ready.

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Who /hype/ for Starfinder here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsvHK4Bt1Y8

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Here is the updated version of Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warriors.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ld4mfulvbcllpe6/Psionics%20Augmented%20-%20Psychic%20Warrior.pdf?dl=0

The two-page spread has been fixed, and the concerns of >>51961419 >>51961617 have been addressed. Forrest's foreword was also removed, since it mentioned the silhouette archetype, which did not make it into the product.

If, for whatever reason, you appreciate Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior, be sure to purchase it on the Dreamscarred Press website when it appears there.

As well, here is the most up-to-date version of Dreamscarred Press's Monster Classes subscription:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ivfg2tuf19q0cyp/DRP2230_MonsterClassesSubscription.zip?dl=0
The latest monster classes are the harpy, the imp, and the medusa. Unfortunately, I cannot find anything outstanding about them, nor can I see anything particularly amazing about the new feats included with them.

Consider purchasing a subscription to Monster Classes if you enjoy the line:
http://www.dreamscarred.com/product/monster-classes-subscription/

Finally, here is Psionics Augmented: Host of Heroes. It is an aegis archetype.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/97bplkj39gy4040/Psionics%20Augmented%20-%20Host%20of%20Heroes.pdf?dl=0

Can anyone identify what has changed about the host of heroes since the playtest?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pZCqqDCNYMTMXo56HPDKK61r-_H2qVO6Ydoz-F9FIhM/edit#

If the host of heroes is to your liking, consider purchasing it here.
http://dreamscarred.com/product/psionics-augmented-host-heroes/

Comfy to me is suffering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgXZn_H_QAI

Konosuba is the epitome of Comfy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzMJp09_a5k

>>51979704
my nig

>>51979720
my favorite part is the little dance sequences where Megumin is just shaking Chomusuke around

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>>51979589
>Starfinder
>Hype
wrong plane my nigga

>>51979282
>make players be siblings
Done.

>>51979742
My favorite scenes involving Chomusuke are when she's with Wiz.....

>>51979704
I actually need to watch this...

My wife just confessed to an affair. Cheer me up with interesting builds based upon religious classes and the deity Asmodeus.

>>51979742
Megumin is best girl

>>51979817
ohno... Um.. shit... maybe gut her whiles shes still alive?

In pathfinder of course.

>>51979813
The Novels are usually better, but the anime's pretty good. It's best when you're seeing it as the re-work of the scenes it goes over though, as it does lose out some of the detail and sidebits/descriptions

Man am I glad that y'all are here. I'm part of the R/Pathfinder_RPG Discord and the mods there are fucking ridiculous. Y'all don't care. Y'all just don't give a shit. Y'all are the REAL niggas here. Y'all got a homie in me.

Anyways, Veiled Moon, Scarlet Throne, and Riven Hourglass are the disciplines I'm looking at for a Brutal Slayer Stalker. Apart from Fading Strike and Temporal Burn (for teleportation and doorbusting, respectimably), what else do I need from them at level 3?

>>51979826
Scarlet Einhander, maybe?

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>>51979825
Oh and just to note; one book is about 6 episodes long, and that's after the stuff they took out (would be about 8 otherwise), so each episode covers about 3/4 of a chapter on average.

Megumin is best girl... but Eris and Iris are also best girls.

>>51979840
Only works with wielding a single weapon in one hand, and Brutal Slayer either wants to 2H or TWF.
>>51979826
I'd say, take Clockwatcher (RH 1 counter) for surprise rounds and Scything Strike (ST 1 strike) for cleave.

>>51979824
But what's a good religion oriented class? Something fun

>>51979869
Warpriest are cool. You get a lot of options on them with enchantment swifts.

>>51979856
Alrighty. Thanks famalam

How do I make a bad-ass telepath?

>>51979825
>The Novels are usually better
good joke, anon, good joke

LNs have absolutely atrocious writing with grammar constructions that the world should've never seen and overly detailed writing that absolutely murders any illusion of the LN author understanding what constitutes stylistic writing.

LN authors are simply incapable of properly telling a story. They insert a sentence where one could've used a word, and a paragraph where one could've used a sentence.

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>>51979282
>What is "comfy" to you?
Detail

>How do you inject "comfy" into your games and characters?
By taking paragraphs to describe the scene, and taking time in the middle of an NPC's speech to add more description. Idle town music also helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqhZTaxP50

>You greet the spring morning in the City on the River. The scent of flowers from the Greengrass festival earlier this month has almost faded. The flowers given out by the local priests of Isis and Hathor have dried, and their petals still litter the streets. You make your way to the Azure Queen by late morning in response to the summons that Gaedynn made.

>When you open the door, the smell of eggs and bread drifts through the entrance. The only people in the room are Gaedynn, and his waitress, Doris. He tells you to have a seat, and makes his way to the table.

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>>51979999
>When you get to the table, he tells you about a job he wants done. “Earlier this month, we had a request for one of our apothecaries to deliver medicine to southern Soorenar. There were a few people who came here in the winter, and they hadn’t gotten used to the flora here before the Greengrass festival. They spent the last few months in Chessenta before realizing they were allergic to spring in Soorenar. It gets even funnier: some of the Chodathans planned to compete in the athletic festivals next month.” He has a chuckle at this. “Anyway, one of our apothecaries thought we could make a profit selling allergy medicine to some of them since no local priest wants to use magic for such a minor inconvenience. He had to go to a fishing village in a cove on the northern coast for ingredients, but he hasn’t come back yet. I want you to find out what happened to him.”

As he describes the mission, two men saunter in. Even though it’s the morning, you can almost smell the wine from them. They may still be awake from the night before, or they didn’t dilute their morning spirits. Since Doris has vanished to the back, and the bartender is still at your table, they lean against a table and stare at you.

Gaedynn pretends to ignore them, and leans back in his chair to think for a moment. “He’s a wood elf. I think he’s a cleric of some elven tree god. His holy symbol kind of looks like a mask. I don’t think he took a horse with him, and the waters have been too dangerous to go by boat. The village must be close. I don’t think you could fight a group of sauhaugin, so be careful. Find out what happened, and bring back the medicine ingredients if you can. We can sell them to one of the other apothecaries around here.”

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As of >>51977504, the avowed's aether pulse is to receive a global downgrade, and aether barrage is to be downgraded further. While the change to aether barrage is probably warranted, I think that the global downgrade to aether pulse is too much; the real problems are the Merciful Pulse, Overcharge Modulation, and Steel's Betrayal feats.

On a tangent, why are aether blast and aether wrath even different shapes? They are so similar that they may as well be the same shape.

>>51980040
2hu?

>>51979966

>>51979988
Do you want a broom for that sweeping generalisation?

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>>51980109
I'll believe it when there's contrary proof

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>>51979966

The dual disciple is the single strongest psion archetype, because you can offset its main drawback simply by taking the Psionic Knack trait.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/dual-disciple/
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-alternate-rules/psionic-traits/psionic-knack/

You will want to take a Linguistics trait, a Clarified psicrystal, Skill Focus (Linguistics), and Orator, for very high social skills. Fey Obedience (Magdh) is excellent here as well.

Look into the telepathy (mystique) subdiscipline from Psionics Augmented: Psion Focused Disciplines. Its 2nd- and 8th-level abilities are supernatural abilities; they are not spells, spell-like abilities, powers, or psi-like abilities, which means they are not subject to the "hostile force or a tingle" of a successful saving throw. You can thus safely use them at-will to read and manipulate the memories of everyone around you, thereby gaining a tremendous edge in social situations.

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>>51980137

Ah, yes, the Clarified psicrystal should be in Psionics Augmented: Psicrystals Expanded.

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https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/4552889/apps-go-here

Which are the best of the sultana apps even if the game doesn't happen?

>>51979282
To me, comfy is high drive, lack of rush, and thus lack of stress.

To use a topical example, Aisha in Dragon2 is comfy. Gotta save totally-not-her-father Marduk, but he's not going to die so fast that she has to take unnesescary risks, she won't feel bad taking a weekend off

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What race is this?

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>>51980216
Cute
u
t
e

>>51980184
>That girl who wants to be in an A'dam with no takers
F

>>51980137
Is this bit about Su abilities being undetectable on successful save true? Where does it say that?

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>>51980259

There are rules for spells and psionic powers that concern what happens when someone successfully saves against a spell or a psionic power.

>Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

>Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a power that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted power you sense that the power has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area powers.

If these rules did not exist, then creatures would be oblivious to having succeeded on a saving throw against a spell, a spell-like ability, a power, or a psi-like ability.

Supernatural abilities, however, are none of the above.

>>51980040
This will not end well.
Here's what the ranges should probably be like. The stacking of statics was causing a little bit of trouble, but the multihits (required, as a single pulse is excessively subpar for damage against single targets past around level 2) also mean that even a slight drop has large effects.

http://pastebin.com/Mrs3qKgY

>>51980292
I wonder if this is intentional or and oversight.

Do male lamia exist? Are there any recorded sightings in them in published material?

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>>51980359
Yes

>>51980137
>>51980145
>>51980292
Thanks. I actually have Focused Disciplines. I will give it a scrutinizing. Picking up TK (or precog) in addition to TP is undeniably powerful, but, perhaps, not in line with the theme I'm going for.

>>51979282

Comfy is a good meal, good drink, and a warm fire, all shared with good friends.

Sharing a bottle of fine liquor after a long and difficult adventure is one of the best ways to unwind. Especially when everyone laughs at the youngest of the group making a bitter face at the taste of alcohol.

>>51979536

SMASH THE R@s, EXTERMINATION NOW.

>>51980517

The ultimate sign of comfy, to me, is when everyone can talk mad shit about their party members and the worst that will happen is an equal amount of banter's flung right back at them.

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>>51980563
That's definitely up there. Two common traits in high-stress professions are black humor and constant ribbing. It's how you vent, and how you know who your real friends are.

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>>51979282

WTF is this!? WHY IS IT AWESOME!!!?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1brc_EMhPUcUC5tdS7KoLjfGWMJD88b2FRQPCSfYdoIQ/edit

>>51980657

Fatty fat fat fat is not cute or even sexy!

>>51980657
Fuck off.

>>51980657
A fat bitch. It isn't.

>>51980657
Fat people. You probably like them because they remind you of your mother.

>New WotR
>It's same as old WotR, with 39 PB

Oh Lordy!

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>>51980657

>incredibly tanky class
>can get TempHP almost at will
>Customize able to a degree
>Scaling powerful build as a class feature
>Natural DR based off of Con
>class Resources is very easy to get

This IS aweso-
>class is based around getting increasingly Obese.

GOD FUCKING DAMN IT

>>51980888

Obesity is fluff, it can be changed to increasingly muscular, or fit, or voluptuous!

>>51980904
Or you could kill yourself.

You can use a swift action any time you could use a free action, so...

Can you use a boost in the middle of a multi attack strike?

Like, Fool's Errand's Windmill Waltz Flurry lets you make three attacks, could I make two of them, then use my swift action to activate Leaping Dragon and jump 30 feet to a new target to make the last attack?

>>51980657
This would be pretty hot if only 3D bbw was like animu where they retained the smoothness and complexion of their skin.

Unfortunately its almost always disguisting lumpy cellulite and discolored stretchmarks which make me want to vomit.

>>51981053

Yes, yes you can.

If not because that sounds really cool!

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>>51980657
STAT ME

>>51981092
Even better with Tornado Slam.

>Activate windmill waltz flurry, run up to one guy and punch him
>Five foot step, use Tornado Slam to throw him 30ft across the battlefield and instantly move adjacent to him
>Use the second attack to down them, 5ft step and punch a third guy

>>51980657

As stupid as this concept is. The Class itself seems pretty solid.

The blasting portion of the class seems a bit obtuse. At least the upgrades to the Blast.

>Thunder Thighs: Rub you thighs together to generate a lightning bolt in a 40 ft line. Spend a calorie to shoot a lightning bolt that deals 1d6+Con Mod Damage per character level (max 10d6)

>Overweight Overcharge: Moving around generates more static electricity. Add an additional 2d6 damage to your Thunder Thighs attack if you move at least 20 feet prior. If you make a special Charge attack and spend another calorie, (double move, and Thunder Thighs) this increases to damage 5d6.

>Friction Burn: Add fire to the lightning. Add half the damage dice in 1d6 fire damage. (example 4d6 Electric damage + 2d6 fire damage.)

If i'm reading this right, at 10th level its possible to do a blast that deals 15d6Electricty + 7d6 fire damage in a straight line after a charge attack and spending two calorie points.

>>51980657
You can't possibly be serious with this fetish shit. Come on.

Let's say a zombie shapeshifter replaced one of your allies. If a cleric would channel positive energy to heal allies would it damage the shapeshifter because the cleric thinks its an ally?

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Nothing can move the Blob

>>51981644
Yes, so long as the zombie takes damage from direct applications of positive.

If you can cast cure to damage it, channel positive will do it too.

>>51981644
Hold up. Aren't zombies mindless?

>>51980109
Dude, I've frequented BakaTsuki for the longest time.

I personally knew the guy involved in the original F/SN translation.
I've read LNs both in their English translation and the Japanese originals.

The writing is absolutely pure dogshit. Nips simply don't understand how to write a book. The tween's fanfictions on ff.net are the pinnacle of storytelling achievement compared to what nips puke out on a monthly basis.
Even if the story itself is engaging and the worldbuilding is solid, the actual writing sucks big hairy balls.

VNs and LNs having good writing is the biggest fucking meme that's as far from truth as possible. Even shit like SWANSONG, which is readable both in its original and translated forms - it's still mediocre as fuck.

You want an example of Western LN? Fucking Lemony Snicket blows absolutely every Japanese author out of the water, despite being as light a novel as it could possibly be.
I mean, even Twilight, 50 Shades, Divergen etc. are pretty much LNs, and despite how utterly shallow and retarded they are, the actual writing there is mostly up to par.

If the movie has shitty camerawork and direction, I will not forgive it even if it has awesome scenario, cast, CGI etc.
Why should I do the same for LNs?

>>51981674
>>51981644
No. Channel Energy can EITHER heal OR harm, not do both with a single application. It doesn't matter whether you consider someone to be your ally or enemy.

>>51981754
Cure Light Wounds can only heal, it also doesn't matter whether you consider someone to be your ally or your enemy. But if you heal an undead, it takes damage.

>>51981754
So in this situation an undead would be healed by positive energy?

>>51981788
Cure Light Wounds doesn't have a specific wording requiring you to choose between healing and harming.

Channel Energy is also an area effect, so you can't even specifically target your allies(or enemies).

>>51981815
No. Channel Positive Energy used to heal people would have no effect whatsoever on undead creature, unless it has a specific ability allowing it to gain healing from positive energy effects, like the dhampir's negative energy affinity but in reverse(which, to my knowledge, doesn't actually exist).

>>51981869
>No. Channel Positive Energy used to heal people would have no effect whatsoever on undead creature, unless it has a specific ability allowing it to gain healing from positive energy effects, like the dhampir's negative energy affinity but in reverse(which, to my knowledge, doesn't actually exist).

Scratch that, even if an undead did have such an ability, it still wouldn't be healed unless the cleric specifically targeted undead creatures. "Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. "

How many extra spellpoints per level does someone get for taking four general drawbacks on a spherecaster? The chart for it isn't displaying on my phone.

My player wants to play a Death Knight from the Genius Guide to the Death Knight. Anyone have experience with the class? What tier would it be?

>>51982127
Like tier six, at best. It's awful. Under whelming. Boring. Under performing. The only thing it's got going for it is it's edgy.

>>51982168
Should I tell my player to reroll, then? I don't want my players to be weak but he wants to play this for the flavor of it.

>>51982254
What does it do that he wants? There has to be something similar.

>>51982287
He mostly wanted a class similar to Antipaladin but based around undead and without the flavor attached to Seal Breaker. Plus he felt Seal Breaker wasn't undead enough for him.

http://pastebin.com/2FpbWthT

How d'ya like my martial discipline so far, /pfg/?

>>51982370
I'm betting it's whatever.

You, I hate.

>>51982068
>+1, +1 per 1.5 levels in a casting class (2, 3, 5, 6, etc.)

>>51981908
So, you'd automatically know it was undead, then, because the channel outright ignored it?

>>51982395
Thanks!

>>51982370
Okay fuck you I thought the synopsis got worse and worse as it went on and then I finished reading it and it was great.

How are you making this mechanically different from existing disciplines? Don't make another Chimera Soul where you have something with cool flavor but really bland mechanis

>>51979282
>builds based upon religious classes and the deity Asmodeus.
Have you seen the firemountain games archetypes from their Way of the Wicked books? They should be searchable on the pfsrd. I think they're listed in book 5 as well.

>>51982405
Well yes, but if you didn't know it was Undead in the first place you probably used Selective Channeling because you didn't want to heal it.

Otherwise yes, you could probably notice the Channel didn't effect them. Unless they weren't injured at all in the first place.

>>51982425
I wanna try out some stuff with bullrushing and awesome blow to see if I can make a competent 'tank-like' discipline that focuses on knocking the baddies away from your back line. Hit em with your butt so they can't grab your teammate's.

>>51982405
I don't think you would AUTOMATICALLY know it(at least channel energy doesn't have a wording to indicate such awareness), but if they were visibly hurt, it would be pretty obvious that the channel didn't heal them for some reason.

>>51979817
>>51982431
Misquoted due to mobile.

>>51982425
I've always thought that Chimera Soul and a "spell combat"-compatible discipline shouldn't have very many strikes. Instead, they ought to focus on boosts, counters, and stances. If they do have strikes, they need to be full-attack strikes. In fact, I might do just that when I get the opportunity: rebuild Chimera Soul to focus on stances and make either a set of feats or magus arcana to let spell combat and spellstrike work with maneuvers, under certain conditions.

>>51982555
I hear they're rebuilding chimera soul except with the goal of changing the stances to work with the rest of the discipline

>>51982482
...this already sounds a lot like Fool's Errand.

Sure, Fool's Errand is more about grabbing opponents and pulling them away, but that happens in Keijo too.

And FE definitely does have a good selection of enemy throwing maneuvers.

>>51982555
Actually, I've come up with it as a feat or two for magus-types or those who get spell combat and spellstrike (Ectoplasmatist, Phantom Blade, etc.)

>Battlemage [Combat]
Prerequisite: Spellcombat or similar ability, ability to initiate martial strikes
Benefit: When using your Spell Combat class feature, you may opt to substitute the full-attack made with it to instead initiate a single martial strike you know. This is still a full-round action.

And

>Spell Initiator [Combat]
Prereqs: Spellstrike
You may use Spellstrike in conjunction with a martial strike that you initiate.

>>51981178
Already dead.

>>51982702
Anon, do you know the definition of Nova and why it's a bad thing?

>>51982702
Does that let me use a full attack strike? Because the spellstrike one is objectively better otherwise.

>>51982702
You do realize that you can use spellstrike with a martial manuver anyways, right? Spellstrike gives you a free melee attack. A initiated strike is still a melee attack.

>>51982728
Yeah, it means "The reason you're getting denied experience is because you're contributing jack shit because you blew everything in under a minute"

>>51982728
Yes. It's literally just shit off the top of my head. I might make it a metamagic feat. How does a +1 spell adjustment sound?

>>51982734
I intend for it to be standard-action strikes only. If it's full-attack strikes, then it's a very bad idea.

>>51982774
Technically, it's a standard action, not a melee attack.

>>51982791
No, anon, it's not synonymous with bad GMing. Individual XP is cancer anyway, find other ways to reward your players.

>>51982774
>>51982702
This is why there is no "natural spellstrike". You can always use touch attack spells as part of a natural attack, you just get an extra free attack with spellstrike.

>At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.

>>51979282
Does anyone know if there's any upcoming content for Akashic Mysteries?

>>51982810
Then I stand corrected.

>>51982796
Then the spell strike one is objectively better, because the action economy gain is higher. Using one standard for both effects is great, doubly so if you can do so during spell combat.

>>51982370

Don't let your memes be dreams!

>>51982675
Eh, I'll come up with something.

What can you do to boost the saves of your spells without class features, since Magus is totally unhelpful for actually making its non-touch-attack spells land?

>>51983028
Spellfocus. Greater spell focus. Heighten spell.

>>51983079
That's all though? No traits or anything? There's not even any feats like "1/day on one chosen spell when in bright sunlight and surrounded on all sides while wielding a weapon you have weapon focus in, gain +1 spell save DC"? I'll take that, really I will.

>>51983163
Outlander: loreseeker from rise of the runelords

>>51983190
Why is that even campaign specific? Nothing there would be remotely unique to a character of any campaign.

>>51981747
Dude, that's because so much of what goes on in Japanese literature cannot be directly translated to English. Part of their writing style is to use Kanji that can cause the sentence or phrase to have multiple meanings depending on how you read them, and in the case of the better writers, all of those meanings are relevant to what's going on.

Knowing the guy who did the original F/SN translation is irrelevant to this - are you aware of how deeply flawed that translation was? Let's not start with how Nasu's writing style is fairly complex to begin with (and thus you lose a lot translating to English at all), he straight up missed the mechanical, program-like inner monologue that accompanied his outer monologue.

>>51983313
I wish I knew moonrunes

Is it better to increase you hp, or use the extra point skill when levelling up? What's the ideal hp in general for every class?

What about for a switch-hitter?

>>51983313

And here I just thought they liked puns a lot.

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So! Who do you wanna see in dragon game duo?

My vote is for brawl loli and Gilgamesh!

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>https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/70727/romance-of-the-righteous-kingdoms

Sup dudes.

>>51983735
I was just about to post here about your game and my troubles coming up with concepts that fit for /pfg/ games.

>>51983735
...How much of the WotR rules/format did you copy anon

>>51983658

Xen piques my interest. Especially since his sole adventuring goal is looking for honeys.

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Shit on me for my choice in homebrew all you want, but does anyone have any of the the Ponyfinder PDFs they can throw my way? The Mega in the OP only has one.

>>51983735
>Mythic gestalt leadership game 40~ point buy
How terrifying.

>>51983658
I want to see the game crash and burn because I'm sick of that shit shitting up this shitty thread making it even shittier.

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>>51983924
ANON NO, YOU'LL SUMMON HIM

>>51983933

>Meme lord Eagle
>crash and burn

Well i guess you're a glutton for punishment.

>>51983798
A fair bit. I might actually ban PoW and Spheres though, and run with Vanilla + Psionics.

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>>51983957
I'M NOT PAYING FOR HOMEBREW GOD DAMN IT

>>51983986
>banning Path of War
Glad to know you hate martials. Have fun with your shitty game.

>>51984006
>banning things that 2hu likes
How is this bad again?

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>>51983924
>>>/mlp/

>>51984022
2hu doesn't like PoW. If given a choice he'll take a tier 1 wizard or arcanist. He doesn't actually like those either, but they're the most optimal thing.

>>51984048
2hu doesn't like Pathfinder.

>>51984099
BUT IT'S MOST OPTIMAL FOR FINDING A GAME!

that's the joke

>>51983658
Me

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>>51983986
Don't let the others meme you. Honestly, I'm right up about to ban PoW too. It's so damn hard to balance for.

Spheres of Power/Might are both great and I wish I could get more use out of them, but PoW outshines them so hard that I simply can't have a PC from both and keep the campaign together.

>>51984006
>not liking PoW is hating martials

Unpopular Opinion: A lot of the feats and such introduced by PoW materials are cool and fun, but initiating and initiator classes feel too polarizing for combat viability. I'd honestly rather play with free Stamina, some extensive feat houserules for taxes and scraping out the fun parts of shittier classes, and a group of people that are comfortable with one another. I say this as someone who absolutely ADORES Elemental Flux/Veiled Moon/Riven Hourglass, as well.
I threw this rapier into the water and I know people will still bite it.

>>51983986
I was thinking the game looked bloated but this actually makes me more interested in it.

>>51984234
>I threw this rapier into the water and I know people will still bite it.
That's because you're not wrong about PoW being polarising. You really do need to change enemies to face PoW people, because strikes are designed to be faced down with counters.

>>51984284
And then if you give shit counters and strikes then the people who DIDN'T want to use those things have to suck up that they might as well be NPC mooks. All day is good, giving people cool defenses is good, but REQUIRING people be fully immersed into a subsystem or be 100% worse is too far.

Granted, I'm a fucking weirdo because I still think it'd be perfectly acceptable to let someone feat into having nearly fully functioning panache or inspiration without needing to dip into other classes, but that's not quite related.

>>51984006
>Glad to know you hate martials.
Disliking PoW != Hating Martials

I dislike how PoW is designed. I still love martials.

>>51984234
>>51984006
>>51983986
What about allowing the 6th-level initiators? Myrmidon, Rubtato, Warpath Follower, Polymath, Hidden Blade, Pathwalker, and Warsoul are all fun and functional without the sheer power and ramping-up that full-initiators have.

>>51984360
Really, if you want to encourage people to play martials, panache or something similar should be something every non-caster gets.

I don't know why everyone else thinks martials need more options. I've always found it relaxing to attack every turn, throw in a combat maneuver every now and then, and maybe make an acrobatics if I'm feeling frisky.

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>>51983658
Your love for brawl loli is noted and appreciated, though the pineapple certainly has an awful lot of competition when it comes to tough unarmed fighters.

>>51984527
bro like Broli

Is it reasonable for the human sorcerer, by level 7, to have both rope trick and feather fall on their spell list? Assuming no other full-caster is in the party. Draconic bloodline btw

>>51984548
Her power is maximum.

Her bust size is minimum.

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>>51984571
why not?

>>51984427
It's not the ramp-up that bothers me, it is the changes that the subsystem itself brings in relation to the base game. It is a fun to use subsystem, but it also brings the problem of effectively restricting you down to only things that use that subsystem. Restricting people further down to JUST the 6th-level initiators only makes that even more glaring.

>>51984472
I KNOW RIGHT. Amateur Swashbuckler SHOULD let you actually snap up stuff from swashbuckler, because swashbuckler is a poorly bound together set of ideas that don't really deserve to be a standalone class.

>>51984504
People want more options because "attack every turn, throw in a combat maneuver, maybe make an acrobatics check" tend to be the ONLY things a martial can do, which means when those things don't work you're helpless. Fighter is good at hitting dudes in combat, but falls apart the second you want to do anything else.

What happens if you have a - modifier for int when calculating skill points?

>>51984571
Feather fall's a pretty good idea, especially if you plan to be flying often.

But rope trick? I'd say rope trick isn't good enough to give up a known spell for unless you have 1) a specific trick, 2) that you're going to use often, and 3) you're confident will help in multiple situations.

Just buy a wand or a few scrolls otherwise.

>>51984600
you lower your sp/level by the negative mod, down to a minimum of 1 sp/level

>>51984571
Featherfall? Absolutely. It's probably the only utility spell a sorcerer absolutely needs. It could save your entire party (except the monk), especially since it's a level 1 spell that uses an immediate action to cast.

Is it better to do Dex or Str Warlord for a spear style

>>51983735
We've done it boys, we've become a fucking parody. This game looks like something designed by someone trying to make fun of us, but I think its series.

>>51984698
Depends--are we talking an actual spear, or something like a Glaive that has more mechanical support?

I played some spheres of might.

I don't really like it.
It really does encourage investing all your stuff into a single trick/combo and using it over and over.

>How SoM compares with PoW
>"Let's let people build up their attack action with talents to be better than most PoW strikes"
>"And then let them repeat it every turn"

>>51984711
I might actually do straight spear (i like the idea of stabbing nerds), I wish there was a fancier, cooler spear than just SPEAR but

>>51982351
Knight of the Sepulcher?

How do you get maneuvers as a non POW class?

>>51984576
>>51984527

Flat chested girl in the Demesne? She's got to have some severe boob envy, i can just smell it.

>>51984706
I don't understand how you'd get that impression, it just looks like Raunchy trading out Vices for Leadership and bumping up power because who gives a fuck.

>>51984724
Also, runs into the same PoW problem of half the classes and spheres having nothing to do outside of combat.

>>51984772
Either you use a initiating archetype, which is available to a number of Paizo classes; Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, and Rogue. Or you take the feat tree Martial Training. It has 6 levels, getting you to 6th level maneuvers.

Archetypes:
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/archetypes-for-non-martial-classes/
Feat:
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats/#TOC-Martial-Training-I-Combat-

Hope this helps!

>>51984571
If it fits your character concept, sure.

>kind of want to try running an all-vigilante game
>too busy with school and trying to hack together a prototype for my own browser-based game

Life is suffering

>>51984724
>It really does encourage investing all your stuff into a single trick/combo and using it over and over.
To be fair, it does really help lighten the feat tax many martial have, plus considering the direction of SoP, I think the idea was to have an easy system for everyone to easily and quickly specialize in particular combat style, Armiger not withstanding. Plus it does so without horribly bloating the damage numbers to the extent PoW does.

Plus, DDS tends to be good at needing and fixing balance issues and overpowered options when people point them out on the playtest, incantation not withstanding since the whole Playtest affair on that was a mess

>>51984797
Athletics, the Blacksmith, and the future Utility spheres that Jolly mentioned would have a word with you.
Plus to be fair, we only have around 40% of all the content they plan on publishing.

>>51984775
Uh yeah, that's right in her app anon.

>>51984724
>let's let people build up... better than most PoW strikes
>people who hyperfocus on one thing can do one thing really well

don't people constantly complain that most PoW strikes aren't worth using over "just full attack" anyway

>>51984970

But i can SMELL it

>>51984928
While I do agree that PoW's damage numbers and the odd maneuver create balance problems that /do/ need to be fixed, on the whole I still find it a fundamentally more engaging system than Spheres of Might, which falls closer to the root of the 'invest heavily in one playstyle and stick to it for the rest of the game' problem that martials have.
I was very disappointed to see even the designer of the Armiger have the expectation that the class was meant to main one weapon and use its others as situational backups.

>Athletics, the Blacksmith, and the future Utility spheres that Jolly mentioned would have a word with you.
Hence half. I was actually being generous and including Sage in utility-capable classes too

>>51984975
And it even moreso with SoM, since you don't have the damage bloat like strikes do as badly

In dragon game, how common is it for denizens of the city to come and go?

>>51984995
The problems that it's hard to have super combat generalists, since resources must be limited for balanced and spread across levels, otherwise you just get the problem of being either a useless generalist (core Fighter) or an overbearing generalist (like wizards and incanters)

Further, it just makes sense that someone who dedicates himself to a particular style will be better at that style than someone who spreads himself out over multiple styles, though it also means what generalist will be more readily able to use different strategies and to mix them together.

Really, it's hard to strike it right to balance between specialists and generalists, and it's not like PoW didn't run into the same problem, since 2handed was still superior to most everything else just like 1pp, and at most you could only effectively invest in 3 discs, which had a wide disparity in usefulness between them, and many manuevers were honestly kinda pointless after a while without comboing

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>>51984994
Pic highly related.

>>51978315
While those are indeed problems, Overcharge Modulation and Merciful Pulse are ALSO weakened by that nerf. That said, we'll take a look at Steel's Betrayal.

>>51980305
Thank you for this! It'll help us a lot.

>>51985103
Those are the giant obstacles in PF martial design in general.
SoM improved the power floor, and it can be a fun system for that, but it hasn't made much ground on the main problem.

Path of War didn't completely solve this problem either - but it did a better job of it.

My opinion on SoM might improve once we get sphere drawbacks and it becomes viable to get a single good technique with only a one-talent dip into a sphere.

>>51985306
We've seen so little of the system as a whole that I'm reserving judgement. There's still a bunch of classes, spheres, feats, and even drawbacks like you said. Hell, there's the skill stuff and potentially even traits to think about, let alone archetypes.

>>51985299
The impression I've gotten from looking at touhou's posts about steel's betrayal is that as you go up in CR, if you fight bestiary monsters, their touch AC remains pretty static.

Which means later on it's essentially free huge damage.

If your GM hand picks many enemies with scaling touch AC then it's much less of a problem.

>>51985343
Yes, touch AC basically never scales.

>>51985299
Can I please say that Heart of Magic requiring Heart of Aether feels like the most ass-backwards fucking thing in the world, since Spirited Swordsmanship already exists? Related to that, if you do want it possibly to be "very SAD", Aether Duelist not functioning for Aether Channel as a TWF-replacement is equally confusing.

>>51985299
I'm quite worried about what a global downgrade might entail - if even touhou says that it isn't needed, that's saying something.
a point against nerfing pulse to d6/d3s is that it becomes much more annoying to roll d3s at a real table - even if it's just dividing d6s by two, it's something you do every turn and will be a /pain/

>>51985299
I don't understand why Steel's Betrayal as a feat needed to be made. Touch attacks get a huge advantage as it is, and attack penalties using them might as well not exist, that's why even a wizard is able to hit with touch attacks from his spells.

>>51985443
Christ, yeah. There's a reason you can't use Deadly Aim, Power Attack, or other feats on touch.

It's because the penalties don't amount to jack fucking shit unless the enemies have built to maximize Touch AC. Which is pretty hard for anything above Large in size given the penalties to DEX and AC.

>>51983313
cokesato is a piece of shit, but reading VNs/LNs in the original language isn't at all better. When you read the moon, you understand enough to realize the fancy wordplay is an excuse for hack writing and plotting.

Lookin' at you, Nisio.

>>51984833
Alchemist gets one too (Polymath)

>>51985586
Having read Zaregoto and some Monogatari, Nisio is one of the few LN writers I'd say has genuinely good prose

>>51985586
Wait, I thought it was the writing that was being complained about, not the plotting. He even brought up novels with trash plots to compare them with Moonstuff (Unless you want to defend 50 Shades as a better plot than the Garden of Sinners/Rakkyo?), likening it to technical issues in a movie.

I'll admit, most writers are shit at plotting, but that's not what was being brought up - it was the purely technical aspects of writing that were being complained about, while the setting and plotting were, if not outright praised, then at least respected. Changing it to plot complaints not only bring up things that are inherently subjective, but move the goalposts here.

>>51984833
>Roil Dancer not included in the list

Damn it I even added it a month ago before the site move, why is this version out of date?

>>51985676
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Yvm-nD7pc

>>51983629
Those are translation-hell as well, just ask the guys translating SYD.

A simple 4-panel, and the thing is nothing *but* wordplay.

Actually, I'll toss in a second language that does this as well: French. A lot of french humor uses alliteration and puns in this way. The double-meanings are often something like 'it's both a political and a farming term' that may rely entirely on the intonation, less often direct sex jokes than in english. Particularly good for an afternoon on your work radio, but nowhere near as entertaining for raunchy/crass evening entertainment as you'll get from english comedy.

>>51985709
That was the troll of the year and you can't deny it

Unless it was the same year as Endless Eight I can't remember

>>51985443
The Jollylock buffs say hi.

Hitting touch is important in two places: when you can't hit something normally due to bad BAB/high AC/whatever or you are able to buy off to hit for damage in an over the top manner.

The former is why touch attacks exist in the first place: Wizards have shit to hits (worst BAB in the game, Strength is a dump stat, Dex is tertiary) and it was decided that they needed to be able to hit with blast spells not named Magic Missile or Fireball. Where this got abused was with the Flask Rogue, who had shit to hits for a martial (Strength a dump stat, 3/4 BAB, feat tax to be able to use their Dex to hit and never to damage) and those abuses were an invention to the necessity of Rogues needing to be in melee range to get SA off without dying horribly.

The second example is degenerative, bit does not fully exist in Pathfinder. It existed in 3.5, where you could buy off your entire BAB with Power Attack, get Wraithstrike to hit touch, and facefuck something way out of your league on a charge (with pounce and leap attack+shock trooper, say).

A marginal fighting class hitting touch is not a big deal. A marginal fighting class being able to sell all their accuracy for damage, get bonuses to that damage, and still hit anyway is a big deal.

>>51983986
Please finalize your campaign details before opening up your listings then.

God damn, I don't want to rebuild every single time you change your mind about something.

>>51984928
The "lightening of the feat taxes" is something PoW also does, but in the end it's still getting aggro for it, mostly due to the fact that while it greatly reduces their need, it does not PREVENT one from taking them, thus allowing them to stack up.

Thus some disciplines are obviously using/needing them or they'd be too weak, while other picks are too powerful once you add those up.

>>51983924
Just google it anon its in there somewhere.
I talked my gm into allowing ponyfinder once just so I can have a unicorn familiar in all its cheesy glory

>>51985586
>cokesato is a piece of shit, but reading VNs/LNs in the original language isn't at all better.
It really depends on the VN/LN. LNs are almost universally trash, but a few decently/well written ones exist.

The well written ones improve dramatically in moon.

>>51985788
I've never seen people list this as a problem.

It was mainly just 'boost+stance+full attack' stuff.

>>51985685
There's a difference between plotting and plot. Plotting is an important part of writing, as it is how you block sentences, ideas and concepts to move the story forward. The plot is what happens.

And outside of Touko's philosophical ramblings, Rakkyo is 50 Shades for Japanese men: sexless cessation of power to your ideal mate who does what you can't but still needs you basically because you exist. Like how Tsukihime is Twilight'a precedent with the sexes swapped and more rape/murder.

Kinoko Nasu writes girlporn for guy nerds. Girl nerds getting into the girlporn part is why Redman and Goldie are more popular than some of the heroines.

>>51985770
Did anyone ever even number crunch the Jollylock, let alone complained about it? Has anyone even PLAYED a Jollylock? I mean, I've been meaning to, but still haven't gotten the chance. It's pretty easy to get 3 attacks at 6th level, though at that point if you're using everything at once you'll have a -6 to-hit (TWF, Rapid Shot, and Deadly Aim) to do so. Assuming even as low as a 20 PB human each hit would end up doing around 1d6+8~?

>SwimmingEagle ignoring DHBs questions
Serves the fucker right, god damn that's funny.

>>51985738
Very close. Katanagatari was 2010, Haruhi 2 was 2011.

>>51985676
I would disagree: he's mistaken verbosity for meaning and wordplay for creativity, which when you're trying to swing with Dazai, Akutagawa, or hell, even the LoGH/Boogiepop Phantom writers stylistically, it makes you look Ike a poseur.

He's one of the best of a profoundly shitty lot, but that's low praise. The anime does wonders to reign in his textual excesses with SHAFT visual excess.

>>51985936
you mean he just allowed everything he asked for?

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>>51985936

>>51985936
So when's your anatomically-accurate DHB bodypillow coming in the mail, faggot?

>>51985343
That was my initial worry a while back about this too. I would NEVER take steel's betrayal at level 1-6. I don't build like 2hu does, and even he/she avoided it in one or two builds, which is sayin something. But, once you're like, level 9? 11? You're not gonna miss, why wouldn't you take it?

Personally I think the biggest problem of overcharge modulation, merciful pulse and steel's betrayal are how bad a shape you're in without them; the first and third in particular (the second; it turns things nonlethal, that's got its own limitations).

Take Overcharge, for example: If you don't use it a barrage will somewhat clear the floor at rank 3 by level 16... so it's not bad. It also, however, means that you have a choice: Either take overcharge AND minmax a good deal further so that you can one-round equal levels... OR don't, and two-round them with debilitators.

But this means, at level 16, the difference from JUST the one feat? Is 72 damage. Think about that for a second. 72 damage. And if you take it, you NEED to optimize further, because using it flat-out disables your secondary effects.

>>51986021
He ignored the last two questions.

>>51986170

Check again.

>>51985905
Did we read the same Rakkyo?

When I read it, it felt more like Japanese Dresden Files with a romance subplot between the detective agency's muscle (Shiki) and the detective agency's detective (Kokuto). The focus seemed more in the "Shit, something supernatural is going down and we're the only ones equipped to deal with it" and less on Shiki's frustration with Kokuto ignoring her coming onto him.

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All these 3rd party options and no book dedicated to dungeon traps like in third edition.

>>51986012
You can disregard my opinion entirely since I don't know much japanese linguistics and have only read english translations of his LNs, but I think his writing style is strong enough (and hopefully the translations good enough) that the patterns and intentions of what he does come through. Even as someone who's studied a chunk of English lit I found them very engaging reads.

I think while you say that he's mistaken wordplay for creativity, I would counter that he turns wordplay -into- creativity: he doesn't simply stop at "this is a wordplay therefore it's smart", it's very often "this is a wordplay, but now that we've created a linguistic connection between these concepts, it's opened the way to exploring a thematic one."

It's a much more flashy and blatant style than what you'd find in 'real' literature, but it's not trying to be that: on its own merits I think his work does a very good, if unsubtle, job of bringing the idea of poetry and rhythm in writing to the more casual audience of Light Novels.

>>51985343
>>51985373
>>51985443
>>51985527
>>51985770
Quite. We'll see what we can do about that, bring it more in-line with other similar options (like Power Attack). The lack of meaningful penalty is actually a major problem.

>>51985384
Heart of Aether and Heart of Magic were intended to be balanced against Altered Life and Unnatural Resilience - two feats to gain a single ability modifier to HP, Fortitude Saves, saving throw DCs, and class features. Being able to take Aether Duelist ALONGSIDE those abilities has thrown things off a bit - at the moment, we're discussing ways to deal with this. A hardlined artificial exclusivity might be the way to go.

>>51985442
The actual ease of use concerns you bring up are very important to us. We'll discuss alternatives. We might just halve all damage Betrothed and their companions do when using an Aether Pulse - it solves a lot of our previous concerns.

There any disciplines for maneuvers that are worth a shit for a ranged character?

>>51986442
Solar Wind

>>51985923
Out the box Jollylock with Genius Vigilante and Mystic Accuracy, assume Human for simplicity's sake. They've got PBS, Rapid, Deadly Aim, TWF. BAB of +4, so that's a step up on DA.

INT 18 post racial, 14 DEX, add a +2 headband and a +1 magic item equivalent.

They're throwing out three attacks at 4 (BAB)+5(Stat)+1(PBS)+1(Weapon bonus)-6 (DA+RS+TWF)= +5 to hit vs. Touch.

Damage is 1[W]+5(stat)+1(item)+4(DA) x3 so 1d6+10 a pop, avg 40.5

An alchemist of similar level, similar setup, chucking one Bomb (too early for Fast Bombs, sadly), is throwing one shot at 4(BAB)+2(Dex)+1(PBS)=+6 to hit vs. Touch. They do 3[W]+5(Int) damage once, so 3d6+5, avg 15.5 Now you know why so many of them go Grenadier/Vivisectionist.

A regular ass full BAB bow user is pumping three arrows with Rapid/Manyshot at 6. Replace the INT with DEX and assume STR 14.

You have 6(BAB)+1(PBS)+1(Item)+5(stat)-4(RS + DA) so +9 vs. Regular AC, dealing 1[W]+2 (STR)+1(Item)+4 (DA)+1(PBS) x3, or 1d8+9 x3, 40.5 avg

This is all back of the napkin, but the Jollylock damage average matches a slightly suboptimal (their damage stat could be higher, don't have any of the full BAB boyz' cynical damage bonuses) full BAB bowman, with a lower to-hit vs. lower AC.

Seems fine to me, tbdesu. Worse if I misremember Genius Vigilante + Mystic Accuracy allowing you to get Int to damage *and* accuracy.

>>51986442
Elemental Flux lets you deal with Solar Wind's fire only damage, so using the two together's not bad.

>>51986442
Pretty much only Solar Wind if you're damage focused and want to spam ranged full attacks.

Elemental Flux is very good for debuff/utility though, and to a lesser extent Tempest Gale.

>>51986442
Solar Wind and Tempest Gale are ranged exclusive. Elemental Flux, Sleeping Goddess, and Riven Hourglass typically work with either.

>>51985883
I don't think people quite understood the full value of the interactions is why.

Let's go high, and take a level 12 character, with +8(12 2h) strength bonus and BAB 12 (so Power Attack -4/+8(12 2h). Not being stupid he has a large +5 greatsword.

Wit just a normal swing, we're seeing 3d6+17, And will on average attack 4 times due to haste (avg 110 for 4 swings before miss/crits). Kills a CR 8 (-4 to self) in one round.
>If he has power attack this becomes 158 however; killing a CR 11, *just short of a 12*. Actual DPR will definitely breach the CR12.

Now add in +2d6 from a stance: 5d6+17 puts him at 138. Still not enough to kill a CR 12 in one round.
Throw in a boost: Each attack this round will get + 3d6. We're at 180, just short of killing CR+1 with a stance+boost full-attack. Actual DPR will do it.
>but Power Attack puts this at 228. Now we kill CR 15... and a crit or weapon training 3+ could throw us over CR 16.


At the highest levels a full attack like cascade of elemental wrath does go too far however; it did not need the extra dice that much. But that's already in "the game broke completely anyways" territory at least.

Before that, though? Power Attack is one of the biggest damage boosts and it shows.

>>51986476
Variable Wind lets you do that for one feat.

>>51986513
Huh, right. Dunno why I thought you needed an Elemental Flux maneuver to grab it.

>>51986417
>We might just halve all damage Betrothed and their companions do when using an Aether Pulse - it solves a lot of our previous concerns.

If you do go this route, and main pulse stays d8 (which I hope it does, since steel's betrayal and high DEX provided most of the big numbers in touhou's builds), I'd suggest keeping the betrothed d4s and just halving the static modifiers.

This means that you only need to halve the static modifier once, and then you add the dice to it normally, rather than having to add everything up and then halve the whole thing each time.

>>51986417
I feel like you're misinterpreting what I'm asking. Aether Duelist was kind of an aside that was a bit of confusion, since I think it's in a pretty okay spot right now save that it doesn't help you if you were strapped for ability score PB and wanted to do a TWF build with normal weapons an STR.

What I'm most confused by is the fact that in order to make your Class features Con-based... You... Then HAVE to make your attack and damage stat also be Con-based. When you already have a feat that exists to make your attack and damage be based on your "casting modifier". Charisma is spending three feats to get what Con gets in two. I'm not saying Con NEEDS to spend more feats, but just that the progression is wonky as fuck.

>>51986471
You can't get Int to Accuracy with Jollylock, so you'd need to have decent Dex in order to maintain your to-hit.

>>51986442
Solar Wind but its locked into one of the four elements (you can pick an acid, elec or cold version instead).

Tempest Gale is mostly just bad.

Riven Hourglass has numerous maneuvers that aren't melee-only and it's good to have overall.

Silver Crane can actually be of great use; though some of its strongest moves are melee only the others are good. There is also no better use of Silver Crane Spiral than a ranged attacker.

Elemental Flux works with anyone and anything.

Sleeping Goddess offers some stuff but mostly the escapes,etc.

Are spheres in the pfsrd?

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>>51983924
try posting on mlp, there's a discord for /tg/ stuff since no one there usually gives a fuck.

>>51985795
the rules for familiars in that book are fucking retarded. It's pathetically easy to have one that can cast magic better than you can.

>>51986588
Not to mention its also a miniature equine so you can bully your familiar into carrying your shit for you.

>>51986543
We'll definitely consider it!

>>51986549
I get Aether Duelist and Spirited Swordsmanship's names mixed up a lot, sorry. Turns out having a dozen feats called Magical Stabbing gets messy.

The main thing is that we're not really opposed to someone being Strength/Constitution MAD, for example. We just have an issue where someone can be entirely Charisma-based with no use at all for other ability scores.

That said, I'm still having a little trouble parsing this, I'm sorry. What would you like to see change?

>>51986193
Dresden Files is supernatural romance, ahem, "urban fantasy" crossed with hardboiled detective fiction, like Rakkyo is "urban fantasy" crossed with Japanese psychological horror. This goes back to my original point of Nasu being girlporn for boy nerds.

Ryougi's confused romantic feelings for Kokuto and his fascination with/urge to emotionally protect her are an underlying thread of the whole series, on par with the Monster of the Week or Philosophy with Dirty Red.

>>51986582
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/spheres-of-power/

>>51986651
In order to make your class features be based off of Constitution, you have to take the feat that makes your attacks be based off of Constitution. This means you don't actually have to give a fuck about anything about Str or Cha and can hyperfocus on Con in order to achieve about the same results as a Cha-avowed who pumped all their resources into being SAD on Cha.

Sure, I can still use Str for it, but... Why the fuck should I when I can just use the same thing all my other features are scaling off of now? At least a Cha-avowed has to make the conscious choice to pick the feat to allow him to do so, a Con Avowed HAS to have the feat that lets him do so.

>>51986693
Wheres the spheres of might thing that everyone keeps talking about?

>>51986730
read

the

op

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>>51986619
>bully a stronger caster than you
good luck with that. I wasn't saying like "lol" a few levels over.

also
>implying ponies shouldn't just be the size of actual ponies
if you can't ride your pony in a PF game you are doing something wrong.

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Have clerics become obsolete in pathfinder?

With the availability of cheap and easy to uuse Wanda and potions many parties opt to take another damage dealer over a healer such as a cleric as aside from specialised enemies such a small undead they generally get better bang for their buck when it comes to action economy.

Couple that with every major town seemingly having a resurrection caster on call and there really isn't any use for a pure healer in a party.

>>51986721
>In order to make your class features be based off of Constitution, you have to take the feat that makes your attacks be based off of Constitution.

Right, and we're fine with someone being Constitution primary with Charisma as a distant secondary. That was actually the intention of the feat - to make them function, for one feat, like the Dragonfire Adept from 3.5e.

>>51986730
Read the fucking OP

>>51986745
Such as*

>>51986745
>it's the healing isn't good meme again
this shit died for a reason. but even if you don;t give a fuck about healer, just read crusader again, more carefully this time.

>>51986745
Cleric was never meant to be a healbot, cleric was meant to be a CoDzilla.
Also affectionate bully only really works with another PC.

>>51986664
Yes, but you're speaking as if two things being in the same genre mean that they are inherently of the same quality, when that simply is not true. And even in the same or similar genres, quality and stories vary drastically - Twilight and 50 Shades are bottom barrel trash, Dresden is pulpy fun, and Rakkyo is a legitimately well written story both within and without the confines of its genre.

>>51986745
Clerics aren't a healer, they're a full caster. Channel is a small part of the overall class.

>>51986745
>cleric
>pure healer
Do you perhaps have brain damage? Clerics are the class that makes martials obsolete. Not only can they deal damage almost as well as a dedicated martial, but they get AoE damage, Crowd control, SoLs, utility, etc. on top of that.

>>51986746
Hmmm, is there actually a meaningful reason why one is prereq'd on the other?

Is being CON attack/damage with CHA class features really so different from being STR or CHA attacks with CON class features?

>>51986790
>AoE
while they do have it, its pretty poor.

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>>51986743
>bully a stronger caster than you
>For every two levels above the minimum to gain the pony familiar, increase its intelligence, concentration, and effective wizard level(1 to start) by 1.
How exactly is a level 2 wizard unicorn stronger than its level 9 wizard master?

>>51986805
Still better than Fighter or Barbarian.

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>>51986746
It just looks weird to see you guys complain about Cha-SAD when Constitution is doing basically the same thing and honestly PUSHED into being that thing with fewer resources spent, is what I'm getting at. I have nothing against Con-avowed, hell, I'm actually building one right now, it just confuses the hell out of me when you say "this is fine, but this other thing that's more expensive is not fine".
See >>51986804 as well

I'm still a little curious as to why Aether Duelist doesn't worth with Channel, all things considered.

>>51986549
Ah, my mistake then. That means either three points come off of their to hit in order to keep parity with the 14 secondary Stat (bringing them down to a dismal +2 to hit) or their damage expressiom needs to come down by three, giving them 1d6+7 x3, avg 31.5 damage.

Our friend the Owlbear has 15 AC and 10 Touch, so with the to-hit nerf, Jollylock hits on an 8 and Bowman hits the higher AC on a 6. Assuming you 14ed Int, the Jollylock hits on a 5 instead.

So if you are a Jollylock and focus on accuracy at the expense of save DCs, you have a 5% better chance of tagging an Owlbear than a dude with a bow, who out damages you and doesn't have to sweat energy resistance. If you don't, you are straight up worse at hitting than said dude with bow, even though you have the easier target.

...yeah

>>51986804
From a balancing perspective, not really - it just felt like a fun thematic choice. That said, it might disallow some interesting builds, which was not the intention.

>>51986835
Charisma can be added to saving throw DCs, class feature scaling, hit points per level, fortitude saves, and initiative. Constitution can only be added to DCs, class feature scaling, HP, and fortitude, and we're much more comfortable with that level of SADness.

>>51986835
Because Aether Channel works with TWF by default.

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>>51986769

>>51986746
I've not been involved in this discussion, but honestly it feels like the 'get whatever to whatever' has gotten to a stupid degree with Avowed.

Like, really.

>>51986866
Yeah, I'd suggest making Heart of Aether and Heart of Magic independent of each other (both with the same dragon/breath prereqs).

The one thing this may enable is an avowed taking only Heart of Magic and an AoE shape and effectively being CON SAD since they don't need attack rolls or stat to damage.

If that's a problem, make it so Heart of Aether is the one that determines save DCs for shapes, and Heart of Magic is Modulations and other things.
That still allows CON SAD Aether Swarm builds for a feat, though.

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>>51986866
I ask because it's totally possible for an avowed to not be able to qualify for many parts of TWF depending on what they try to do. Like, if I went HoA/HoM for Con avowed and tried to do an Aether Channel Unarmed Build, I would have to pour a bunch of resources into Dex, when maybe I wanted to actually be clunking along in plate armor instead.

>Con vs Cha argument
Except without class features, Cha does NOTHING, which means switching it to Con is arguably better. The only thing Con is missing is the ability to spend an additional feat in order to get Initiative, otherwise they can both be functionally identical. Except Con still costs fewer resources to get going.

>>51986927
We'll definitely consider it.

>>51986912
Many of these issues aren't actually based in the Avowed at all - Bloodforge's Unnatural Resilience and Altered Life just showed up so much in our home games that we thought republishing it so everyone was on the same level made sense. Noble Scion (War) was first party Paizo. Self Pact's abilities were available to Monk 1 and Paladin 2 respectively.

NONETHELESS, it has. We're cutting it back.

>>51986912
People have figured out Charisma and Constitution are shitty, vestigial stats, but can't get rid of them because D&D. So they over correct on their uselessness by giving them ALL THE THINGS.

Apply this thought process to monk weapons/fighter damage sucking and you get Broken Blade 1.0, by the by.

>>51986953
con won't give you social skill checks, anon

>>51986953
That's a good point. I'll propose adding 'constitution instead of charisma for avowed feat prerequisites' so you can pick up Aetheric Armor in a Str/Con MAD build.

>>51986962
Those feats were a mistake.

A lot like much of bloodforge's development process really.

>>51986962
Self Pact probably should have looked at the Enlightened Champion (of Irori), seeing as how they also gave a variant of Monk 1 (Max bonus = class level) and Pal 2 (being a Paladin).

1pp is a more pressing concern for mass consumption than home games, I'm afraid.

>>51987026
Self Pact has been capped at 3+class level since a recent update, too. Both Forrest and I write for Dreamscarred Press, and enjoy using their content. Altered Life and Unnatural Resilience are not, by themselves, a problem - they are when in this context, however. And we're working on resolving that.

>>51987024
Two feats to let you dump CON for a mental score feels no worse than two feats to let you dump STR for dexterity.

Well, in practice it might be a much bigger pick for casters who have feats to spare, admittedly.

>>51986987
It's a step forward, but I feel like we're not on the same wavelength somehow.

>>51987024
>>51987080
Doesn't having a Low CON put you more at risk from shit that damages Con. Like, even if your Fort/HP are Cha based, you can still straight up die from hitting 0 Con?

>>51986769
What class IS the best healbot?

>>51987054
3+class level might as well be no cap, given how stats scale. Unless you go to 20 Cha, you don't care at level 1. By level 2, you don't care period and that continues for most all the class's life unless someone busts out theory op stat boosting gimmicks (which caused the initial outburst, actually).

I said this in an earlier thread: if the cap is going to be that high, it should be stat agnostic. Think the Monk's other AC bonus.

>>51987113
>Doesn't having a Low CON put you more at risk from shit that damages Con. Like, even if your Fort/HP are Cha based, you can still straight up die from hitting 0 Con?

Oh, that's true.
flashbacks to dumping STR to 5 and GM bullying me with Shadows

>>51987115
Vitalist.

>>51987113
This is true. I figure the best counter to CHAvowed is gonna be to toss stuff that inflicts CON damage to them.

>>51987115
Vitalist I think. Or anyone with CLW on their spell list.

>>51987131
Stat agnostic doesn't /feel/ as good as stat to AC.

The 3+Class Level cap was only meant to reduce dipping potential.

which is why I feel after level 4 or 6 they should just remove the cap

>>51986745
Clerics don't just heal, they also get rid of status effects, ideally. Or can do after a long rest. If you don't have a cleric, I hope you have some way of getting rid of:

negative levels
mind control
stat damage
fatigue/exhaustion/etc
blinded
dazed

etc etc

>>51987080
Because there are more abilities that synergize with CHA than DEX.

>>51987113
We have Strength as a prerequisite for heavy armor Avowed builds - or you can just spend two feats on heavy armor proficiency. Embodiment of Aether/Aetheric Armor is meant to be a path to Strength dependency for Avowed who have dumped Dexterity (and thus WANT heavy armor). However, Avowed who are Constitution dependent still potentially benefit a lot from Dexterity, thus the less rewarding route.

STILL. What would you PREFER to see?

How much is a +1 magic enchant on a weapon?

>>51986745
Yes, thank the gods, because no one fucking plays them right.

>>51987202
IMO, drop all this silliness with CON/STR/DEX-vowed. Just make them use Charisma.

>>51987252
Don't listen to this guy. There isn't THAT much that runs off CON that bumping things onto it is game-breaking. A particularly buff avowed is perfectly ok.

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>>51987202

Currently, the two feats (and possibly a trait) for fully Charisma-based avowed seems significantly superior to the two feats for a fully Constitution-based avowed, because the former nets social skills and leads into Noble Scion (War).

The only thing Constitution has going for it is synergy with the celestial pact, for those 6th-level avowed who would try to be debuffers.

>>51987162
If CHA to AC is a problem because of CHA to everything else, then either the CHA to everything else abilities need to be banned/removed, the CHA to AC ability needs to be removed, or the CHA to AC ability needs to be ameliorated by setting max AC to class level or having it hard replace DEX, thus using armor Max Dex as an absolute cap or something.

>>51987115
Oracle, or Oradin Vindicator build

>>51987252
We're not going to be removing support for Weapon Finesse or standard ray/melee touch attacks, and Constitution support will be staying for people who want to play something similar to the Dragonfire Adept.

>>51987296
And even that constitution support is awkward, as the intention was more to help people who were Con/Cha/Dex or Str MAD than the alternative. Given the assortment of other ways that can be achieved now, that hasn't held up super well. We'll try to fix that, as well as giving Constitution some more benefits to push it up to par.

>>51987328
It HAS a cap.

>>51987212
2000 g

>>51987296
It's sounding more and more like the solution is to make Spirited Swordsmanship either incompatible with CHA to HP, or have serious drawbacks to using them both. ('If you draw your attacks from the same mental source as your life force you're taking hp damage whenever you do it like a slightly less unfortunate kineticist because it's not unhealable')

>>51987252
Seconded. What brought on all this dickery anyway? No other class has anywhere as much statjuggling nonsense.

What is the purpose?

>>51987357
That's indeed one of our potential solutions.

>>51987369
To appeal to a wide variety of concepts.

>>51987348
Make CON-vowed an archetype then, instead of a feat.

>>51987351
but it has to have a magic +1 enhancement bonus before it can actually be enchanted so its 4k?

>>51987348
I do not mean to be rude, but 3+Class Level isn't a fucking cap to anything. I just said that here: >>51987131

Make it a STRICT cap. Akin to the Champion of Irori.

>>51987202
It's mainly just a web of potential builds that's starting to make it feel like we're not on the same page, as well as the fact that there are at least three other anons interjecting shit, but the original thing that kinda kicked off this specific bit of confusion was:

>A: If I wanted to play an Unarmed Aether Channel build, a style which pretty much requires you to have TWF/Flurry/Whatever, I have to have Dex or be Str-based with Prodigious TWF.
>B: If I was to try being a Str/Con MAD avowed like you say... Str Legitimately has no purpose other than providing me with the ability to carry shit if I base my features off of Con.

Quite honestly, the build that I most look forward to playing (A Dex/Cha/Con MAD weapon unarmored physical weapon user with a balance of offence, defence, and utility) looks like it works perfectly fine barring the BaB debacle but you already mentioned a potential archetype n terms of balance. It's all the juggling is just adding layer upon layer of headache-inducing balance and build concerns concerns that's making my, and presumably everyone else, have their heads spin.

>>51987389
What would it even replace?
Bonus feats?

>>51987383
I like the SAD potential overall, though HP on top is a bit too much.

I'm curious, do you see curbing SAD as a real balance concern, or more of a 'perception of power' concern?

>>51987396
No, it has to be masterwork first, which is base price+300g.

Unless you mean buying up a +1 on an already magic weapon, which costs the difference between the current enhancement bonus and the new one. It's the same if you're buying a special quality on a preexisting magic weapon.

>>51987404
Sorry, missed that post. We settled on 3+class level because that made it equal to light armor with one level of investment, which is what it would be replacing. However, given the lack of multi-attribute dependancy, it scales a lot faster than it would on a Monk. We'll have a look at that.

>>51987389
As a Charisma-based Avowed has to spend two feats to gain Charisma to HP and Fortitude, a Constitution-based Avowed requiring two feats to gain Constitution to class features and saving throw DCs seemed like a fair trade. It was unfortunately upset by adding more variables into the mix. We intend to solve this issue.

>>51987396
You have to enchant a masterwork sword up to at least +1 (2k) before you add any special properties like flaming or keen.

>>51987459
At the moment, it's a very real balance concern - albeit not on the DPR front. That said, we're not sure where we want to go with this at the moment, and will be discussing it more.

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>>51987521

Why are aether blast and aether wrath even different shapes? They are so similar that they may as well be the same shape.

>>51987396
A sword with +1 and flaming will cost 8000 gp for the magic. You have to total all the enhancements together before finding the price.

>>51987478
>>51987521
Honestly, my least favorite part of this whole debate is that it's very likely whatever your effort to curb SAD builds will be, it will massively hurt the people who didn't want to go that hard into SAD. I respect how ambitious Forrest has been, but your efforts to try to do good work AND please as many people as you can at once seem to just be making things even more painfully difficult.

>>51987521
As mentioned before, thank you for listening! We're not exactly experts ourselves, but we do want to see the avowed turn out at a good balance of working effectively and not overshadowing other classes as well, and it's gratifying you're taking our concerns under consideration.

>>51987383
You dont need to slam multiple stats together to be able to pull multiple concepts.

Other classes seem to do just fine without squeezing everything onto one stat.

>>51987547
Aether Wrath is a particularly cool thematic.
I feel it's too much of a cross between aether blast and aether wrath at the moment though

Though as it is, Aether Blast could use a buff to not be a strictly worse Aether Wrath up until the 4th selection, where they suddenly switch in value.

Am I the only one who feels like the Avowed is trying to stick it's finger into too many pies? Both thematically and in terms of mechanics?

>>51987586
Yeah, we'll work on that.

>>51987557
Our current intention is to curb the ability of people to stack all the SAD feats together. People who only go partway in should not feel punished for it.

>>51987610
In a lot? Yes.
Too many? I think the variety is part of what makes it good, really.

The amount of variation N Jolly's given to the Vigilante and Kineticist is much more expansive.

>>51987586
*aether blast and aether well

damn that didn't come through.

>>51987643
The Vigilante was built with variety in mind, and you did it via archetypes, which can by their very nature be more transformative.

>>51986953
Finally managed to parse this. Yeah, we'll work on wording that so that you can use Con for TWF prereqs if you have both Aether Duelist and Heart of Aether (and/or? not sure) Magic.

S-so guys

Dex or Str for a spear PoW build, probably Warlord

Maybe an elf cause i'm a faggot

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>>51987641
Would it be possible to have a clause or feat for setting touch activated bombs with area of effect shapes?

Something like "With a touch, you can charge an object of up to medium size with your Aether Blast, Well, Wrath, Eruption, Breath or AoE Retaliation. The next time this object is touched by a creature other than you (or an ally under your Weatherproofing), your Aether Pulse immediately triggers, centered on the object. You can only have one object charged at once, using this again ends the previous charge, giving any creatures in the area a save against it as normal."
Maybe also "As part of the standard action you may throw or shoot the object as a ranged attack, incompatible with Aether Rounds or Channel, which does normal weapon damage and triggers the shape if it hits the target."

Yes this is a big reference but it's cool

>>51987774
Dex has a strong potential to be good if you take Piercing Thunder, Polearm Dancer, and use an Elven Branched Spear.

>>51987850
why would they need polearm dancer? Elven branched spears are inherently finesseable

>>51987865
Oh right, I forgot that they were finesseable like that. I suppose if you want to use other types of spears and polearms, I guess?

>>51987841
Well, most of those AoE shapes are a little bit too tricky because of the definition of 'center'. Charging objects as traps is also just very difficult to balance (see Explosive Runes), and 'touch' is somewhat ill-defined in play.
We're not ruling it out certainly not for being a reference but don't get your hopes up.

>>51987886
i mean to be honest its probably the best choice for a 'spear' because it has reach, brace, and a 1d8 which are all decent, its no Fauchard but >USING A WEAPON NOT NAMED GREATSWORD

Its a little sucky to be twohanding a finesse weapon and being a dexfag but thats not terrible either.

I guess the main trade-off is higher acrobatics (VALUABLE) vs abusing strength bonus to damage.

The real money for a spear build that utilized Piercing Thunder would be to find a way to get spirited charge without needing a mount. Cause fuck mounts.

>>51987946
>too tricky because of the definition of 'center'
Damn, that's true, I forgot that blast and wrath are centered on grid corners rather than grid squares.
Roll to randomly determine a corner of the space containing the object? Or is random is fiddly, the corner closest to the Avowed's position?

Breath is probably too tricky to define.

>Charging objects as traps is also just very difficult to balance
In addition to the 'one at a time' limit, have them automatically defuse if further away than medium range, or dead?

(Also I realized the 'charge and throw weapon' aspect takes away the main disadvantage of Eruption and Retaliation, so those two options probably either have to go, or be incompatible with that action.)

>'touch' is somewhat ill-defined in play
'Makes contact with any creature, or item worn, wielded or carried by a creature'?

(Thanks for considering it!)

>>51988137
And probably detects as magic with a spellcraft DC to identify the trap.

>>51988137
It's probably easiest to just do it as a separate shape like Aether Torrent or the like, so you can tune it properly from there and resolve any rules confusion in that text instead of constantly referring elsewhere.

New thread
>>51988272
>>51988272
>>51988272
>>51988272
>>51988272

>>51988037
i think being a dexfag is less painful if you use Phalanx Lancer, bash them if they get too close, spear them otherwise.

>>51988233
(It wouldn't be very useful as its own shape, is the problem with that - it's very utility. Unless you mean a feat shape like Aether Torrent.)

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>>51979434