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Goblins and Orcs

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What was the first fantasy setting to make them distinct separate races when they were originally synonymous in Tolkien's works?
>>
That might actually be Tolkien.

Swap Uruk out for Orc and you've got the typical Orc/Goblin difference.
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>>51976298

This.

Although even then there's significant differences between the Goblins of Moria and the Orcs of Mordor, even if they're ostensibly members of the same broad species.
>>
>>51976298
Uruk was just the black speech word for Goblin wasn't it?
and the word Orc came from the word Uruk
>>
>>51976331

That's not quite right.

Uruk is the black speech for "orc" in denotation, but carries a connotation of the bigger, stronger, warrior orcs, and not the smaller ones.

And the etymology is not correct. the common tongue of the west doesn't have influence from the Black Speech. It's derived from the Sindarin "Orch" and ultimately from the primitive Quendi "Ruku", which was just generally any scary thing that lurked in the dark.
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>>51976208
Dungeons and Dragons
Goblins are strong enough to kill a level 1 Fighter in one hit, but are crippled by light.
Orcs are tougher, and live in tribes ruled by a powerful Human Magic-User, Dragon, or Balrog.
Orcs and Goblins are both aligned with the Forces of CHAOS.

AD&D tries to justify the division by aligning Goblins with the Forces of LAW*.
Orcs are still aligned with the Forces of CHAOS in AD&D.
*which aren't any nicer people than the Forces of CHAOS, mind you
>>
>>51976208
It's definitely Tolkien.
Goblins where the orcs from the Misty Mountains and where noted to be pretty different from orcs from other regions, to such a degree as to be recognisably goblin or not on sight.
>>
All Goblins are Orcs, not all Orcs are Goblins?
Thread posts: 8
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