Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>51974776
I check whatever culture the setting ripped off and go from there.

I need some help picking talents for Rory. I don't care about the offense aspects of the Alteration sphere, because I already get decent enough offense from being a Brutal Slayer Stalker. What I really want is utility (disguises, mobility, senses, etc.) and stuff that will keep me going in a fight. Here is a pastebin of what I'm currently looking at.

http://pastebin.com/n5jd1VsR

>>51974776

I model mine after a culture that doesn't even really exist! My character is modeled after the Braavosi water-dancer, an elegant form of swordplay that combines dance with stance, flash and slash!

>>51974776
I usually pick the closest appropriate culture to whereever X campaign is and download the book on it.

>>51974895
Swallow piss. How many threads will you continue this charade? Trial by fire. Playit>fail>figure it out.

>>51974954
Wow, rude. Do you speak to your mother with that mouth?

>>51974954
>swallow piss
Careful, the guy from last thread will come back.

>>51974970
Kiss her too

>>51974997
Insert incest joke here.

>>51974989
Hey, that's mean!

>>51975056
Speak of the devil.

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>>51975056
And you deserve it, you dirty piss-drinker.

>>51975032
Never kissed ur mother, anon? Sick fuck. What a depraved life you must live.

>>51975100
Hey, he can drink piss if he wants.

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Rate my dragon game character, it's a Bard

>>51975117
All he wants. Right out of the tip of my tenderpole.

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>>51975100
>>51975144
I can't help that I like it!

>>51975152
You could choke to death on it.

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>What culture of warriors do you model your character after? Roman Legionaries? Samurai? Knights? Vikings? Mongols? Jedi?

My character? None.

Low-level Antagonists? A fucked-up combination of Comanche, Gypsy, and the Sicilian Mafia. Endurance, Undersized Mount, Throw Anything, and Mounted Combat combined with a sturdy breed of riding dog make for an amusing sight. Especially when the riders were hoodies made out of dog skins and have an obsession with throwing arrows.

Higher-level antagonists? Take a pre-industrial/early state society (Korubo, Mixtec, Tu'i Tonga, etc.) and give it good technology and a Prussian level of militancy.

>>51975152
HMU on discord bb
Fuck, that made me want to puke just typing it.

>>51975117
Defending the human toilet, eh? What are you, his boyfriend? Eww, I bet you have piss-drinker cooties too!

>>51975152

That image is really, really cute!

>>51975180
I mean shit, if someone really wants me to piss in their mouth I'm not gonna object.

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Riiiiiight, starting the thread off like a champion are we /pfg/.

if there were to be crossovers between Dragon game 1 and dragon game 2, what would you like to see?

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For the sake of comparison with the 7th-level avowed >>51974033 (a comparison level unfavorable for an avowed, who is just one level away from an iterative attack), here is the most offense-oriented 7th-level fighter I can write up.

Level: 7th
Race: Human
Class: Fighter (free Combat Stamina, mutation warrior)

Key Ability Score: Strength 27 = base 18 + racial 2 + level advancement 1 + enhancement 2 + mutagen 4

Equipment: Gloves of dueling (15,000 gp), belt of giant strength +2 (4,000 gp), +1 falcata (2,318 gp), cracked opalescent pyramid ioun stone (falcata), 682 gp remaining, not even enough for full plate

Key Traits:
Combat: Reactionary

Feats:
Free: Combat Stamina
Human: Power Attack
1st-level: Cleave
Fighter 1: Cleaving Finish
Fighter 2: Focused Discipline
3rd-level: Weapon Focus (falcata)
Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization (falcata)
5th-level: Improved Initiative
Fighter 6: Lunge
7th-level: Furious Focus

Initiative:
1 Dexterity modifier
+2 Reactionary
+4 Improved Initiative
Total: +7

Falcata Attack Bonus:
7 BAB
+8 Strength modifier
+3 weapon training with gloves of dueling
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Focused Discipline stamina trick
-2 Power Attack
Total: +19

Falcata Damage:
1d8 falcata
+12 Strength modifier multiplied
+3 weapon training with gloves of dueling
+2 Weapon Specialization
+2 Focused Discipline stamina trick
+6 Power Attack
Total: 1d8+25 (average 29.5)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterCreation.html

DPR against CR 8 with average AC 21:
((0.95 * 29.5) + (0.1 * 2 * 0.95 * 29.5)) + ((0.7 * 29.5) + (0.1 * 2 * 0.7 * 29.5)) = 58.41, only ~60.84% of a CR 8 with 96 hit points

The fighter cannot manage the avowed's CR 8-slaying, and has far less noncombat utility and durability to boot. The fighter's only saving grace is Cleaving Finish.

This is particularly damning when, again, the avowed is just a level short of receiving their iterative attack.

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>>51975194
Do you like...

Tail pussy?

>>51975216
>what the fuck is dragon game

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>>51975164
Not if I swallow your cock first

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>>51975233

>>51975216

Two party members fucking like rabbits, a pair forming a rivalry and another becoming good friends.

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>this conversation

>>51975225

Is the Pope Catholic?

>>51975216
Sharing of intel, resources and lewds.

>>51975228

its a game where you play as dragons, or as dragonblooded mortals, or as mortals in the service of dragons.

Its run by the coolest miserable pile of fetishes SwimmingEagle. Who's proven that he can weave Lewd, comedy, and genuine hype into a cohesive package.

>>51975265

Blake is a cute. Best c@

>>51975278
Sounds wonderfully autistic.

>>51975265
Why yes, yes it is.

>>51975304

Well their last couple of sessions kicked off a plot to take over the world. Starting with MAKING TALDOR GREAT AGAIN.

>>51975117
He really shouldn't though, that's unhealthy.

ANYWAY, some people were giving criticisms of the variety I had with the Dragonborn I made from before, only making Chromatics and Metallics wasn't enough so I did the Outers and some of the Imperials, not to mention the Faerie dragonborn I made with one of my potential players.
I also made some adjustments to the level requirements of the racial feats, physical combat feats have stayed based on BaB but other feats are now based on character level. Also one thing I forgot to add is that all DB have darkvision inherently.

http://pastebin.com/eRc5b7LF

>>51975218
V M C B A R B A R I A N

>>51975331

Specifically by outmaneuvering a political rival, marrying big dick Taldan nobility, and fighting some dragons.

It's lewd, humor and genuine plot all in one.

>>51975337
Gem dragons, beeotch.

>>51975337
>that's unhealthy.
Actually, not much can get through your kidneys. As long as the dick/pussy is cleaned on the outside and no infection comes in, it's pretty sterile, just salty

>>51975366
Just balance that shit out with actual not-piss-based liquid, like water, and you should be fine.

>>51975356
I'll do Crystals, along with the other Primals and the rest of the Imperials at some point but not right now. Still not sure what stat spread to do with Skys...

>>51975337
where my occult dragonborn bro

>>51975337

>Want to make a blue dragonborn
>Dex/Cha when I need STR/Int
>That's Red

EAGLEEEEEEE!

>>51975390

Eagle, I need that Crystal dragon spread if I'm going to make a child of Susurex and Culdranth!

>>51975406

What?

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>>51975390
I still want to be a big long imperial dragon and curl around people and tell them asian fortune cookie wisdom while they burn to death.

the fact that people are confusing eagle and the memeborn dm will always be hilarious to me

>>51975406
>>51975414
I'm actually not Eagle, but I've given him permission to use these stats for your DB if you want them.

>>51975400
I think I actually did do Occult but I just forgot to post it, whoops.

>>51975429

i am an endangered bird with a snorkel, he's a Nord. i don't see how it's possible.

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>>51975342

That is a fair point. Let us drop Cleave and Cleaving Finish to make room for a barbarian variant multiclass.

Falcata Attack Bonus:
7 BAB
+10 Strength modifier with mutagen and barbarian rage
+3 weapon training with gloves of dueling
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Focused Discipline stamina trick
-2 Power Attack
Total: +21

Falcata Damage:
1d8 falcata
+15 Strength modifier multiplied
+3 weapon training with gloves of dueling
+2 Weapon Specialization
+2 Focused Discipline stamina trick
+6 Power Attack
Total: 1d8+28 (average 32.5)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterCreation.html

DPR against CR 8 with average AC 21:
((0.95 * 32.5) + (0.1 * 2 * 0.95 * 32.5)) + ((0.8 * 32.5) + (0.1 * 2 * 0.8 * 32.5)) = 68.25, only ~71.09% of a CR 8 with 96 hit points

Unfortunately, even with a fighter dedicating absolutely everything they have to overwhelming offense, they still cannot manage the 7th-level avowed's feat of one-turn-killing a CR 8.

Never mind that this fighter is assumed to receive a full attack to begin with, something that is hardly guaranteed at the start of a fight. The avowed, meanwhile, is opening combat with two 190-foot-range touch attacks that ignore damage reduction, miss chances, and wind walls.

>>51975406
I skipped out on Taninim for dragon game for a similar reason, I really hated Draconic Essence.

>want to be Vain
>dragon type is "crystal" (?)

also the name reminds me too much of Taimanin

>>51975452
Now I just want to see a pic of us together, with me as the Skyrim DB and you as a giant eagle perched on my shoulder with a snorkel on your beakface.

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>>51975472
Complete with arrow in the knee?

Link your game please, if you're still accepting.

>>51975471
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be near a name that constantly reminded me of porn.

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>>51975452
Hey SE, can a Tiefling fluffed as draconic be one of Culdranth's children, or do I need a different race for that?

>>51975496
I promised not to shill but if you're asking how can I say no? https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/69913/legends-of-dragonsfjord

>>51975511
go for it

>>51975471
Taninim is the Hebrew word for "serpents."

One of these days I'm actually gonna get off my ass and run a PF campaign. Problem is that I'm already doing Shadowrun with literally everyone I know that's down for tabletop shit.
What do.

>>51975390
But I need Crystal(meth) if I am going to pull some sick Strange Days brainhacks on my unwilling draconic Betrothed. E.g. feel my pleasure whilst I debase her.

>>51975553
Run one on roll20. Post a link here.

>>51975514
Thanks.

>Unfortunately this means that if you do not have a microphone ... you should probably not apply
O-oh... Nevermind.

>>51975618
>but if you are willing to have a voiced DM but simply want to play with text yourself that will be allowed.

Anon, come on.

>>51975618
Nah brah, keep reading. Tons of people here are only good with being text-only, but I as the GM will be voiced with the occasional text. As long as you're fine with THAT, you're good too.

>brewing a triple-app for Dragons 2
This is gonna be good.

>>51975723
What.

>>51975654
Alright. I'm looking through your dragonlist now.

On the Lunar Dragonbord, what's it mean by "Use Magic Device Resist"

>>51975723
the fuck?

>>51974776
I'm running a game set on a tropical island with my players, and, after they defeat the witch they've been questing after the past two sessions, I wanna have them possibly encounter some dangers in the journey home through the jungle, one of these being some quicksand.. However I kinda feel like this encounter would be similar to surviving a trap and might warrant some xp for their troubles. There's not really anything for this though except for forest fires/ avalanches/ or cave-ins. how would you guys rate quicksand on a challenge rating scale?

also before I hear
>quicksand
>jungle

the jungle has some marshy spots of territory to warrant this.

>>51975734
God dangit I hit enter on the wrong spot, that's supposed to be "Use magic device" and the "resist" is supposed to be on the next line like with everyone else.

>>51975523

Dragon DM! Dragon DM! How would you stat a crystal dragon-blooded character?

>>51975777
Ah, okay.

>>51975782
I really need to stop doing important stuff like this when I've just woken up from a nap, it leads me to do silly stuff like that.

>>51975778


fuck if i know, get creative. Refluff an Oread.

>>51975455
Sounds good to me.
Plus I don't see any weapon enchants in there.

>>51975778
Manifester.

>>51975778
Dragon Royal and take piercing or slashing for your element

>>51975816
Wilder?

>>51975798

But Oread suuuuuuuucks.

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>>51975216
the worst romances.

>Celisse introduces her husband to his soulmate and gradually turns yandere
>Freyda falls for a book-burning dragon-hunter
>Lameeka and a Goblin Alchemist - the WoW kind with the giant jew nose
>Astarte and a snow-woman who melts at her touch
>Atolm and a pipsqueak with a complex about her bust size

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What are some level 0-2 scrolls I probably won't have to use but will be thankful for if I ever do? For a character with no casting, just relying on UMD.

>>51975902
That last one actually sounds really cute. We need to think of something worse.

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>>51975425
>You are wise and full of vitality in bed
>Beware the overbearing friend in bed
>Your actions will be remembered in bed
>Cut twice, measure once, in bed
>Chase two birds, and you catch two birds in bed

You can also do like I did a few years back and take all of the stupid sayings from Kamen Rider Kabuto - they barely need any mangling. That was for a different system though...

>>51975233

That's reserved for good games only

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Here is the updated version of Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warriors.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ld4mfulvbcllpe6/Psionics%20Augmented%20-%20Psychic%20Warrior.pdf?dl=0

The two-page spread has been fixed, and the concerns of >>51961419 >>51961617 have been addressed. Forrest's foreword was also removed, since it mentioned the silhouette archetype, which did not make it into the product.

If, for whatever reason, you appreciate Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior, be sure to purchase it on the Dreamscarred Press website when it appears there.

As well, here is the most up-to-date version of Dreamscarred Press's Monster Classes subscription:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ivfg2tuf19q0cyp/DRP2230_MonsterClassesSubscription.zip?dl=0
The latest monster classes are the harpy, the imp, and the medusa. Unfortunately, I cannot find anything outstanding about them, nor can I see anything particularly amazing about the new feats included with them.

Consider purchasing a subscription to Monster Classes if you enjoy the line:
http://www.dreamscarred.com/product/monster-classes-subscription/

Finally, here is Psionics Augmented: Host of Heroes. It is an aegis archetype.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/97bplkj39gy4040/Psionics%20Augmented%20-%20Host%20of%20Heroes.pdf?dl=0

Can anyone identify what has changed about the host of heroes since the playtest?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pZCqqDCNYMTMXo56HPDKK61r-_H2qVO6Ydoz-F9FIhM/edit#

If the host of heroes is to your liking, consider purchasing it here.
http://dreamscarred.com/product/psionics-augmented-host-heroes/

>>51975912
It's a big dragoness who adores tiny Atolm and wants to use Reduce Dragon enough to be his size.

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>>51975471
I took exactly that for Atolm. He's a hybrid runt that more or less got the worst of each side between a Time and a Crystal dragon. Tiny, not even born with interstellar flight, and the group seems to enjoy whenever Vain triggers?

>>51975885
>+str/wis
>perfect brutal slayer or OD stats
>sucks
Anon, I...

So how does Dragon Game handle some of the age aspects of dragons? If you were playing a level 3 DSP True Dragon for example, you'd be a Wyrmling which is... 0-5 years old? Yet surely characters are old than that or have backstories spanning longer than 5 years. Right?

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>>51975809

The 7th-level fighter lacks the budget for such a thing.

You might notice that the fighter has only 682 gp remaining, which is not even enough to purchase full plate.

If the avowed can do a character built for damage and nothing but damage, and the avowed has much better reliability of damage (long range, ignores damage reduction, ignores miss chances, ignores wind walls) and noncombat utility on top of that, then the avowed is an outlier.

Remember: The avowed is being balanced with Paizo + Avowed 1 + Avowed 2 in mind, and apparently, without tiers 1 and 2 in mind either.

>>51976009

Yall are mutant dragons anyhow make up whatever age you want. You could be 900 years old and still be a wyrming, unless you're completely unrelated to The Queen. Then things are a little more reasonable.

What are nice off-hand options for a martial character who PrC'd in PoW Landsknecht anyway?

Sure, I can use a buckler, but maybe there are better options?

>>51975967
Thanks, anon.

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>>51975989
But I wanted to be a red dragon!

>>51975967
>Host of Heroes
This just looks like an Aegis version of the Living Legend, which I just don't like at all.

>>51976038

Your off-hand is supposed to be empty.

>>51976001

Isn't OD incredibly OP?

>>51975798

>tfw I now want to make a crystal dragonborn
>tfw there is zero art of this or crystal characters in general

WAKE ME UP INSIDE

>>51976103
Eh? Any reason why it should just be empty?

>>51976118
Not really? It's just a straight upgrade to the Warder because Wis is usually a better stat than Int and there are some great inquisitions/blessings, but it's still just doing damage.

>>51976142

Because Scarlet Throne Style and Landsknecht expect one-handed swordsmanship and slapping a shield or dagger in that hand kind of misses the point.

>>51976168
Scarlet Throne Style and Landsknecht work as long as you only attack with a single weapon, not only if you're wielding a single weapon. The idea is that you're USING one weapon, but you can still have a second weapon in your off hand, like an arming dagger or a buckler.

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So, i utterly hate myself for doing it, but i finished a rough draft of that one stupid fat class i started on a whim.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1brc_EMhPUcUC5tdS7KoLjfGWMJD88b2FRQPCSfYdoIQ/edit

Its kinda like combat stamina kenetisit, but they get their combat stamina points like a drunken master gets ki.

tear into it at your own risk.

>>51976118
>Falling for the memes

It's a solid upgrade to the warder where you trade out surprisingly little, but it's not going to be particularly more dangerous than a normal warder.

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>>51975912
Actually that does sound really cute. Double the fury too if they're both vain.

>>51976219
>>51976168
"All Scarlet Throne maneuvers and stances require that the initiator not be using any kind of shield in their off-hand (including animated shields) while initiating a maneuver or while using a martial stance of this discipline. The initiator may use bucklers or rings of force shield or an effect that grants a shield bonus to his AC, just not a physical shield larger than a buckler. He must either have his off-hand empty, or be wielding a weapon two-handed to use this discipline."

Bucklers are acceptable if anything. Oh well, I suppose a free hand can go a long way in terms of utility if anything

>>51975730
>>51975761
As in, I'm collaborating with two other people to submit related characters. Two sisters and one sister (male).

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>>51976137
Senpai, I have got your back.

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>>51976300
>>51976137
Or, if you prefer dudes...

>>51976263
Boys can't be sisters!

>>51976137
Geokineticist? Earth Genasi?

>>51976013

> balanced

So far it's failed. Right now I'd just instantly reject an avowed applicant from my games. There's been a very strong case made that they suffer from third party power inflation to the point where they completely overshadow any character using vanilla classes and rules. The presence of an avowed ruins the party dynamic outright.

>>51976365
They can if they're cute enough!

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>>51976311
This one's super cute! I kinda want to make a character for it myself.

>>51976427
>The presence of an avowed ruins the party dynamic outright.
You're confusing "presence of an avowed" with "presence of 2hu." Avowed built by real, sane people are just fine.

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>>51976438
I'm not trying to alternate male/female but it's happening.

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>>51976365
Boys are the best sisters!

>>51976137
I made a stat array for Crystals just for you anon, don't say I never did anything for you.

Crystal Dragonborn:
+2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Wis
Resist Sonic 5
Breath Weapon: 15' cone or 30' line Sonic damage, 1d4/2lvls, full-round
+1 Natural Armor, +2 Deflection AC against Ray attacks
Natural Claw Attacks

>>51975775
guys please ;-;

>>51976448
Dude, it outdamages even the most damaging fighter.

>>51975775
Monsoon, Have it rain down, sideways, and even straight up. Flood the place.

Then the alligators come to play.

>>51976489
- 2 WIS? Favored class: psion?

>>51976550
Normal Crystal dragons are too focused on being pretty to be concerned with being wise.

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>>51976448

The optimization ceiling of an aether barrage avowed being *far* too high is a problem in and of itself.

It does out all that damage near-unstoppably (long range, ignores damage reduction, ignores miss chances, ignores wind walls) and has a smorgasbord of noncombat utility on top.

>>51976574
I'm guessing you don't expect it to come into play given the BAB +19 requirement, but why does True Dragon require Draconic Ancestry?

Only martials would take the feat, so Draconic Ancestry is useless, not to mention the 19 Cha requirement is pretty steep.

>>51976533
Because the fighter has an abysmally low optimization ceiling. This is a natural result of pretty much ANY class with options, which the fighter simply does not have.

Fighter is just peasant+

The avowed is still in playtest phase, so adjustments are to be expected, but don't take a 2hu build as the standard.

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>>51976536

Fiendish alligators

>>51976617
I'll be honest, that one was made by my friend and I'm not bothered enough to change it. I may some day, but not today, and only after taking a close look at feats of other levels to determine what it should be at.

>>51976574
Ur doing it wrong.

>>51976634
Led by an awakened alligator spellcaster.

>>51976626
Show us a build to outdo an Avowed that's not a mounted charger then.

>>51976574
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjR8PiBjRSU

Crystal dragons, eh?

>>51976664
I think you're missing my point in its entirety. Avowed has a really high ceiling right now, but you don't fucking compare it to one of the worst fucking classes in the system.

Fighter should never be used as a comparison point for anything beyond "how not to design a class"

>>51975218
Jesus christ use Pastebin you worthless fuck how many times do you have to be fucking told

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>>51976693
Excuse me, mutation warrior VMC barbarian is really good at the at-will DPR thing level 8 and below.
And that's the comparison build...

>>51976448

Really? I mean, I'm not a number cruncher here. But I look at the avowed and the very first ability I see from them is a ranged sneak attack that's a spell which benefits from weapons feats, counts as a touch attack, isn't affected by spell resistance despite being spell-like, and can be modified in various ways. At level 1. We haven't even started and I want to throw it away. I don't see a limit on its uses, which is... mixed... spells from things like domains tend to start at about half the damage.

But okay, let's carry on. Least pacts. The very first one offers three feats worth of bonuses at level 10+ ability. So it's more like six feats. The second one offers multiple mid level spells permanently and passively. Let's pick a random one.. uh.. nightfall. So you can spam this spell forever? And you get more every level. And you can switch things every level?

I'm having a hard time convincing myself to keep reading. It's looks like the classical third party material that's straight up dominant over everything in play.

>>51976693
So what IS the best damage dealer in the game? Barbarian? Build a barbarian that outdamages the Aether Barrage avowed. And then realize that the avowed still has +6 to every skill and a dozen other utility options.

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>>51976226
>Scaling Powerful build that goes up to a total of 4 additional sizes.
>Can blast, and do some AoE off of it
>Can reliably Self Heal
>Can Fly

Great googly moogly!!

>>51976668
Gem dragons

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010330a

>>51976740
>+6 to every skill

Even a god damn level 1 bard can have that.

>>51976612
Kys senpai

>>51976740
Use an attack breakpoint though; 5 is a good one for avowed, but it's kinda deceptive since 6 is where the extra attack comes in.

Although, perhaps an archer is more appropriate comparisons since they're both ranged?

>>51976762
And can the bard outdamage a barbarian while doing it? Classes should have a trade off. The bard trades off damage for utility. The barbarian trades off utility for damage. The avowed trades off neither.
>>51976774
So do it anon. Unleash your autism and build an archer that does this better.

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>>51976738
>shapes that act like weapons having full aether dice while being able to full attack is a problem
>also doing this as a touch attack happens to be problematic
>people are JUST NOW realizing this

motherfucker that was my main complaint about Aether Channel, let alone Aether Blade and Barrage, and I got brushed off and told to stop being such a faggot

>>51976738
>>51976740
Try NOT min-maxing and the avowed is just fine.

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>>51974776
>What culture of warriors do you model your character after?
Really depends on the character. Generally fond of Samurai aesthetics, but my current fighter is a kasatha cyber-soldier. So, like I said, it depends.

Who /hype/ for Starfinder here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsvHK4Bt1Y8

Fuck, I love my kasatha fighter.

>+2 dodge
>Stealth and Perception as class skills
>Mfw multi-weapon fighting
>#cantstopthechop
>Mfw two bows, one cup
>Mfw fucking lasers, dude
>Mfw bolter and chainsword
>Mfw wandering the wastes on my pre-adulthood quest
>Mfw run into druidbro, wizardbro, roguebro
>Roguebro is cool, sneaking around, opening locks and shit
>Don't pickpocket me Tucker, my perception is too high
>Seriously if you replace my railgun with a baguette one more time I'll eat your fucking limbs
>Druidbro is cool
>Had enough sense to have a dinosaur fetish
>Druidbro is actually a girl
>She's a QT
>Wizardbro isn't really a bro at all
>He never shuts up
>Takes forever to finish his turn
>He's the reason we have an hourglass
>Seriously Todd you're such a nigger

>>51976798
Minmaxing should not mean "Picking Aether Barrage."

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Just finished session 1 of the E6 Streets of Cantha game most people here had no faith in.

It went really well. I can greentext session 1 if people are interested.

>>51976738
I'm inclined to agree with you here. Reading over the Avowed, I get the impression that the writers were saying, "hey, let's Pathfinder-ize the Warlock! It could be fun!" Unfortunately, they went WAY overboard with it. They incorporated tons of elements from the past three editions of DnD. 5e/4e's pacts, the clauses from Warlock and its Eldritch Blast, etc., etc. It feels like a hodgepodge of abilities.

My main complaint, though, is Embodiment of Aether, Heart of Aether, and Heart of Magic. These take the unique niche of the Kineticist (physical-stat based "spellcasting" ability) and gives it to a blatantly superior class for the price of one or two feats. While also having a superior blast.

Honestly, I'm not gonna allow the Avowed at my tables, it needs way too much work. Remove the CHA-replacing feats, then we might talk.

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>>51976774

Just for reference, here are my post-Hellfire-Talent-downgrade avowed builds so far:

• 5th-level: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51962179/#51962521

• 7th-level: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51970757/#51974033

• 8th-level: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51962179/#51962959

All of these are machines of nigh-unstoppable, consistent damage and impressive, at-will noncombat utility.

>>51976820
I had faith in it, anon, I just didn't really have interest.

Fiendish Awakened Alligator Druid? Build this.

>>51976832
I want to pet a rust monster!

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>>51976825

Bear in mind that it is fully possible to build an avowed who relies on nothing but Dexterity. That, in fact, is what my own builds in >>51976828 demonstrate.

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>>51976751
>>51976226
Never has being fat been this attractive! I actually wanna see this playtested!

>>51976536
PSST get a trip.

>>51976536
>>51976859
No.

>>51976859

No

>>51976798

What about that was minmaxing? I'm looking at first level abilities. Several least clauses offer the whole "+6 to multiple skill" deal, which is 3 feats at 10+ ranks ability. Nightfall and aquatic affinity I picked at complete random, and they offer abilities well in excess of anything a new character can get in the vanilla stuff. The closest equal is maybe domains, which tend to have their effects described in single-digit rounds with small effects, not significant, passive, permanent bonuses.

High base damage, ignores basically all defenses, and I've barely started. If I actually cared to optimize I'm sure I could make some sort of monster who could out skill and out dps everyone. Maybe everyone at once.

Maybe the avowed has an interesting premise, but if I showed this to my group I'd just get laugh at.

>>51976859
Yeah, bugger off, this is our turf.

>>51976845
Doubly so, this. Avowed needs to be dependent on either Strength/Charisma or Dexterity/Charisma. You can't just have a class that only needs ONE SINGULAR STAT to function. This is the issue we have with Wizards.

Now I've got a trip!

>>51976875
"Three feats". At what point were the skill-boosting feats worth the god damn slot, again?

>>51976887

no you dont.

>>51976820
I'd read it if you put it up, sounded interesting but it didn't line up with irl form me.

>>51976875
some clauses could do with ACTUAL SCALING, namely the skill clauses. +2, increasing by another +2 at certain breakpoints back to +6, would do fucking WONDERS for it.

>>51976875
Skill Focus is a poor excuse for a feat though, outside of certain niches. Yeah, they're the equivalent of Skill Focus, but that's not saying much about their power.

>>51976895
Ah but I do! it's that Pie thing by my name! It is YOU that don't have a trip

How should one corrup...educate a teenager halfling wizard into the ways of dwarfdom?

>>51976226

this is either horrible, or awesome. Someone with system mastery, Get in here and rip this apart.

>>51976943
With mailed fist and iron boot.

>>51976888

Does it matter? I'm comparing apples to apples here. You have a class like monk, and their "get a feat" talent is a single feat, at roughly the appropriate level. Avowed starts at "get three feats as if you were level 10 and spent 10 skill ranks already". My players would see this and slap me upside the head with a binder.

But okay let's skim to level 2. A feat. Woo. Oh here's a feat that lets me dump everything into charisma. And I can.. grapple with charisma? And my magical ranged piercing sneak attack gets two-hander bonuses? The fuck. The only class that really gets half this treatment is the unchained rogue, and only because their sneak attacks were seen as sort of shitty to begin with.

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>>51976830
>>51976908

>Party gets recruited by the Black Daggers after they helped some who had come to the doctor's clinic to hide from some common thugs who nearly killed them.
>First mission is a simple food supply run to the White Fang
>Some thugs try to bully them and get impaled
>A Tengu asks for "Seed" and the doctor offers a personal ration of his
>Some kids the doctor knows show up and talk to him
>Kids were a distraction. Other kids managed to grab 3 large loaves before being caught
>Party played nice and let the kids run off pretending to chase them a bit (this is what they were told to do by Ching)
>They arrive to deliver the food and get opium as a gift

[part 1/?]

>>51976830
Pretty much this, E6 doesn't interest me at all.

>>51976944
Calorie Collection seems a bit useless if it drains ALL your pool just for another +1 temp HP that goes away in a minute.

>>51976977
It's PF, man, not all apples are apples. Most of those apples are shitty wax fruit knockoffs that may or may not be laced with poison. Like, anon, all of these are feats.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/caustic-slur-general/

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/persuasive-final/

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/quicken-spell-metamagic-final/

Are those all apples? No, they're fucking not.

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>>51977011

>Second task to check in on farmers not paying their dues to the Black Dagger
>Farm animals seem neglected
>Knock on the door
>No response
>Break down door
>Blood_for_Sex.mp3
>Keita family (Husband, Wife, Brother of husband) all brutally murdered
>Bleeding eyes, shallow slash wounds, lots of blood
>Husband clawed into his own face
>Brother found mounted as a scarecrow of their personal garden
>DHB goes out of his way to clean up and not spread whatever fucked them up like this
>They do clean up and investigate
>PC has a nightmare about the scarecrow wailing at him
>WHERE WAS THE EMPRESS

Part 2/2

>>51976226
Seriously no one is discussing this?

One of you Eagles. Tell me this. Is this playable in Dragongame?

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>>51977060
So far players have stayed on the rails. I think the two groups will start diverging significantly next week.

>>51977027

it was originally just going to be a straight healing, but then i figured, then Fast Healing part of Binge would never get used.

I could make it cost one calorie, and have it stack with previous uses.

>>51977030

Sure, but there needs to be some manner of equivalence, or my players are going to look at this, and say to me "why would I play anything else?"

If one class is just completely dominant, my players are going to ask for it to be banned, because they will want to be useful while playing the classes they want to play, not completely overshadowed from the start.

Guys, I need you to pick one of the following skills. I don't need a breakdown of which of them is best or anything, just a quick vote: Appraise, Acrobatics, Handle Animal, Linguistics, Ride and Use Magic Device.

>>51977011
>>51977060
Sounds like a good time
>DHB cleans up
You know what the say, "cleanliness is next to godliness and it looks like that family is meeting him now"

>>51977123
I'd have it cost two just so it doesn't feel overpowered, being able to gain Calories without having to take a full round would be nice as well, especially since we can already drink a potion as a Standard.

>>51976738
Did you never play a Warlock?

>>51977145
Acrobatics

>>51977126
You seem to be operating on deep misunderstandings of the system you're playing in. Many classes have very strong all-around utility. Inquisitor jumps to mind as a candidate for "no particular weaknesses".

>>51977145
UMD.

>>51977157

That's an upgrade you can get with Adipowers, Swift Stuffing, reduce action required to gain the effects of Binge by one step. can be taken multiple times. Lowest action is swift.

>>51977145
Use Magic Device.

Nex time make a Strawpoll.

>>51976828
Touhou, have you considered how much of an asshole you are to state that, when given information FROM THE DEVS THEMSELVES that they'd prefer a pastebin instead of having to look through archives, that you tell them it's "not important" and instead point them to the method YOU prefer instead of, you know, aiding them in the way that's actually easier for them?

Do you understand just how much of a cunt you are by doing that? Or is that part of your autistic mind somehow rotted-out?

>>51977179
Ah I see it now, I merely skimmed the thing earlier due to how degenerate this whole thing was. That said, I can't help but think that despite the whole "overweight" aspect this entire class seems perfectly built to build Monkey D Luffy in Pathfinder.

whats are the good craft and profession skills

>>51977185
Sorry. Vote here pls.
http://www.strawpoll.me/12447016

>>51977287
For Craft, you would normally use it to craft magic items, and in that case, Spellcraft is better. There's still Craft (Alchemy).

Profession sees very little use, but I've seen some used in AP's and class featues. Profession (Soldier), Profession (Sailor), and Profession (Herbalist)

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>>51977287
Barrister.

>>51977235

I changed it from burning it all to gain Temp HP, to spending two calories to get the TempHP, then made it stack.

>>51977287
Craft: Alchemy, Clothing, Armor, Weapons, Bows, Guns, Mechanical, Pharmaceutical/Drugs
Profession: Driver/Teamster, Sailor, Cooking

>>51977287
Craft (Dragon Dildo)

Profession (Dragon Dildo Crafter)

>>51977359
Anon, you can't make actually products with Profession. A dragon dildo crafter can't make dragon dildos.

>>51977359
Wouldn't profession be more about being a dragon dildo merchant?

is scribe a shit profession

>>51977372
>>51977374
You're correct. I made a mistake. It would be (Dragon Dildo Peddler)

>>51976977
>using monk and rogue as basis

anon...

>>51976226

This is disgusting....

I love it.

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>come back from a marathon of High Quality Videogame CGI Anime(tm) to another thread filled with bitching about Avowed
>all that immense bitching over shit that's not anywhere near being done

can you fags keep a random hateboner in your pants for ONE THREAD

>>51977424
Remove Self-Pact cyka blyat

>>51974776
Hey, again. We're keeping up with the threads, as always. The Avowed's DPR issues are, in part, because we didn't optimize as hard as we should have in early design stages. We've got some heavy across-the-board nerfs to all Avowed's damage coming up (preliminary thoughts are reducing it from d8s/d4s to d6s/d3s, like the old Warlock), as well as more targeted nerfs to Aether Barrage. We'll also be taking a closer look at all the ability dependency feats to see how things stand - the ability to add Charisma to so many things is definitely a problem.

>>51976875
That said, seriously, dude? You're bringing up 'this is as strong as 3 skill focuses' as a defense when a TRAIT can effectively give +5 to a skill. You're also spending a significant portion of your resources to do so for an often redundant concept (diplomacy and intimidate work in a lot of the same situations, after all). We're very happy with the Avowed's out of combat utility right now, especially in comparison to its 3.5e counterpart, which often had to make a choice between combat effectiveness and out of combat effectiveness.

>>51977424
>all that immense bitching over shit that's not anywhere near being done
The way it gets done is by bitching, fool. That's the purpose of playtests, the devs are listening and taking notes of our autistic numbercrunching.

>>51977424
>High Quality Videogame CGI Anime(tm)
Was it Berserk?

>>51977504
>effectively give +5 to a skill
Technically, it'd be up to +8 for a +5 and -3 stat modifier if you're minmaxing to 20 and 5.

>>51977060
>>51977011
>someone GMing for DHB
How is he has a player? Honestly I'm curious.

Which skills would you recommend for a switch-hitter, tiefling slayer who works as a court's assassin?

>>51976536
okay that sounds really fun but, they're only level 1

>>51977583
>Perception
>Sleight of Hand
>Craft (Alchemy)
>Bluff
>Profession (Fluffer)

>>51977583
Knowledge (Nobility)
Intimidate
Perception
Sense Motive

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>>51977540
Enthusiastic, punctual.... Really haven't had any problems so far. The autism is a bit noticeable, though. He's took some things in character wrong, but no conflict came of it.

That's all I'll ever say about him. It's rude to speak of those who are listening.

>>51977627
>He's took some things in character wrong, but no conflict came of it.
That happens to everyone in text games I think.

Huh. I was expecting it to be more of a shitshow.

Is there a way to use spirited charge while not mounted?

>>51977504
>reducing it from d8s/d4s to d6s/d3s, like the old Warlock

That one stings.
I hope you at least do a lot of checks on what that does to the non-weaponlike shapes, especially for people who don't optimize too hard.

Keep an eye on both the ceiling and the floor when you make these adjustments.

>>51977647
Don't let memes be truths, anon!

I think comparing Avowed to 1pp classes has a problem of clashing design philosophies. Avowed is made to have respectable DPS and good utility baked in and, as a result, is very reliable in both without spending much, if at all, resorces. It has no dailies, no points, it's ALL DAY and can be also very SAD. That's simply not how Paizo is making its classes.

>>51977647
Not him and I've never played with DHB but he doesn't give the impression of a player who'd be problematic in-game. At the very least he does a decent show of civility, unlike another certain personality that likes to minmax in this thread.

I'd be much more worried about pre-game than game from DHB, I might not like him if I were DMing and had to build around his shit, but I don't think I'd be bothered at all playing beside him.

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>>51977520
>Berserk

Please, this actually had appropriate sound effects and things that looked good in motion most of the time
I was going to try to respond to everything, but reading through all those posts made me feel inordinately drained of all sense of joy.

>>51977692
>I'd be much more worried about pre-game than game from DHB, I might not like him if I were DMing and had to build around his shit, but I don't think I'd be bothered at all playing beside him.
I mean he seems willing to change his character. In two different games he's just stated "I'll adjust my numbers to be near the group's".

>>51977504
>We'll also be taking a closer look at all the ability dependency feats to see how things stand - the ability to add Charisma to so many things is definitely a problem.

How many are there?
There's attack and damage which I think is very good for some shapes, especially because the Desna fighting style feat now already enables CHA to hit and damage for anyone for a feat, albeit with a weak weapon, so Avowed having an edge there is something it needs.

There's HP and Fort saves, which is more of a bloodforge thing that you've officially included - it probably could have done without that.
CHA to one save with a clause is fine, and CHA to AC and Saves is self-pact specific.

Am I missing anything else?

>>51977684
The main problem is that Paizo sucks at making classes, unless they edit them in-post with extra sourcebooks. Fighters are good NOW, but it took until Weapon Master's Handbook to make that sentence possible to be stated without laughing or vomiting. Occultists are excellent and interesting spellcasters, but it took 6 years for Paizo to write what is basically "a more fun-to-play and better balanced Wizard", which is what the Occultist does.

Contrasting that, the Avowed is designed by someone competent (Forrest), has everything you need to get it ready to play in a single book (including reprinting feats or spells so you don't have to go searching for them), and doesn't require you to invest your whole build just to function on a baseline level. It also comes from Forrest having a very specific mindset when it comes to design, and that is as follows:

YOU SHOULDN'T RUN OUT OF YOUR MOST BREAD-AND-BUTTER BASIC POWERS JUST TO FILL THE ILLUSION OF DANGER.

The argument of "it has no dailies that need to be expended" is a false one, because it assumes that a GM will not tune an encounter or an event to account for everyone's current standings. If everyone's at full-capacity, he'll make the encounter tougher because everyone's ready. If people are almost out of energy, spells, dailies, etc, then the encounters will notably only trickle out the rest of their features, rather than murder them as if they were full-strength. Forrest understands this, and wrote Avowed to not NEED that illusion.

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>>51977719
What was it then? I'm looking for a new show to watch. Unless it was pic related.

>>51977677
>Keep an eye on both the ceiling and the floor when you make these adjustments.

That is, indeed, a major focus of our adjustments. We want the avowed to work fine regardless of optimization, but we don't want it to break the game if optimized.

We're happy for the feedback, though. This is, after all, what playtesting is for!

>>51977647
>>51977692
Autistic people have a fun time with tabletop games because it is social interaction without the things that makes social interaction difficult for them.

They aren't sociopaths. Autistic people do think in mainly the same way we do, they just have trouble understanding.

Which are the most useful spells? Which are a must have?

Guys I may have the opportunity to play an esquire cavalier

How cute should I make my couple?

>>51977753
It was what I posted, anon.
It was quite literally a videogame anime. It was the story mode of Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator. Sign and Revelator's sorry modes are both on YouTube, though sign looked noticeably more janky with animation and lipsync

>>51977761
>They aren't sociopaths
2hu seems to be trying his hardest though with refusing to do things like get a trip/name or putting his shit on pastebin.

>>51977818
Oh. Okay then. Well, thanks. I'll give it a look see later.

>>51977761
>>51977647
What I see from DHB is:
>generally nice
>tries to be civil
>asks too many questions
>too formal
>builds really optimized characters but is willing to change them, and the characters themselves are diverse
>confuses text chat everyone does that sometimes though
>detail oriented player from the description of the session
>enthusiastic to be there
>punctual holy fucking shit I can not emphasize how important this one this, fucking flaky players are cancer

I don't see why we hate him.

Tell us Volorexis GM, what is his character like?

>>51977856
Er, scratch that, only the first half of Rev is on YouTube, it seems. Fair warning that it also has a problem of assuming you know things about most of the Deepest Lore, and that it's mostly impressive visually because of how little it had to work with.

>>51977828
Why the fuck should he? He is providing a valuable service to the devs and by extension, the community. If they did not value his input, they would not come seeking it.

>>51976427
Or you can realize that 2hu's crunching for the highest damage possible without considering anything else. I'm playing an Avowed in a game right now, and the only aspect I'm outshining everyone else in is Knowledge skills, because I actually put points in them.

>>51977886
I honestly know nothing of Guilty Gear other than that there's a nun who's a trap. I was more of a BlazBlu guy myself.

>>51977903
I don't care if he makes the builds. I think they help devs too. I just want him to put them in a pastebin.

>>51977828
Both of those things don't matter?

>>51977903
Because he's shitting up the thread for the rest of us.

>>51977882
>why We hate him
It's just witchhunt anon. When he doesn't get a bj from his body pillow, he needs to come here and look for another form of release.

I'm convinced he doesn't even Play pathfinder which I envy, from time to time

>>51977903
>2HU
>VALUABLE

>>51977745
Being A L L D A Y is not bad in itself but Avowed has other points of contention. It has a great choice of baseline utility AND it has a good base damage that easily ignores most defenses. And it also has cherries on top of that, like ways to relatively easily optimize this very reliable damage. It looks like a lovechild that is supposed to be good and reliable in most things... and it is but it also has a high ceiling.

>>51977917
A couple of insightful posts that show a thorough understanding of mastery, even if it is on the outer edge, per thread verses the infinite shit-posts? I fail to see the problem.

>>51977921
I look forward to them.

>>51977882
Sure uh... Nettle the doctor.

>Greentext about Daichi and the Gold Dragons was him
>Likes people alive, and has deep respect for when they die. He's buried like 2 thugs so far.
>Parental figure to children. Takes care of their health and is stern vs poor behavior
>Meticulous doctor as shown by the extent he went to clean up the mess.
>Similar to points above, found some children who talked to the dead family (They would feed kids who told them good stories), and made sure they didn't have eye problems like the bleeding eyes of the murder victims.
>Gave some food to a PC who roleplayed that he forgot breakfast.
>Also gave some to the rook from the same ration.

To DMs who make their own encounter maps, how do you go about it?

>>51977964
Yes but now we've reached the point where the devs touhou is trying to help have asked them to put things in a pastebin, because it's more convenient for them, and touhou has said they're wrong.

That's a dick move.

>>51977999
What's his alignment?

>>51978030
BURN EVERYTHING.
http://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/

>>51978034
Too fucking bad for them. Let them come here and copypasta his shit. He isn't getting fucking paid (that I know of)

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>>51977999
>DHB makes actually good character
Are you sure he isn't trying to diddle the kids?

>>51978030
i used TILED and map sprites from SNES games

>>51978034
Well, they don't HAVE to come here for advice. There's about 3 people suggesting cool things to the devs and 1-2 posts of mechanical input that boils down to "this looks strong because I say so and I am not going to analyse it combined with other things"

No-one but 2hu has done any number crunching and he's not obligated to even do anything; apparently they don't like pastebins except in emergencies.

If you want to help forrestfire studios, produce your own crunch thoughts and put it in a pastebin for the devs to read, not just bitch about other people providing input in a non -optimal manner.

>>51978071
>non -optimal

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>>51978064
Well, one of the main kids is BUDDY of all people. You don't diddle Buddy and live to tell the tale. He might be playing the long game.

>>51978071
2hu has no obligation to do anything but when someone asks you to do something then you should usually agree because of courtesy. It wouldn't hurt anyone.

>>51978088
Non-optimal for them. Why should he go out of his way? For you? Self-centered much? Get over it and scroll down if you don't want to read it.

>>51978071
>non -optimal manner
This just makes the whole scenario stranger, frankly.

oh boy is it 2hu argument time

Why do we care

ignore him

>>51978144
That'd be easier to do if they'd do something to let us fucking filter them

>>51978152
gb2reddit

>>51978166
No u

so this thread is ruined by autistic arguing

Next up we argue over path of war balance right

>>51978152
Or you can scroll past it. Their posts are big but not that big.

>>51978152
Put on a fucking tripcode of your own so I can filter you, ignoramus.

So, speaking as someone who hasn't had a game to DM in a while, what kinds of game do you guys wanna see? Something like E6? Gestalt? Mystic? Mystic Gestalt? What about settings/themes?

I'd be willing to run one if something good's figured out.

>>51978176
We could talk about characters. Heck we could even talk about a character made by a local personality. We got greentext right >>51977999

>>51978205
gestalt seems to be popular right now

>>51978205
>Gestalt
pls no

let the meme end

>>51978207
i mean i was trying to ask about my actual chance to play an Esquire cavalier and have a cute power couple.. But autistic arguing was going on

>>51975909
What's the rest of the party?

>>51978205
Mythic is my personal desire.

Mythic E6 sounds semi-interesting, as long as you have predefined E6 rules.

>What about settings/themes?
I enjoy intrigue. I enjoy cities. Criminal intrigue is something I have not seen in a /pfg/ game.

>>51978205
Regular game without shoddy systems screwing with the already wonky Pathfinder balance. And GM that is not afraid to ban things.

>>51977785
Are you making your cohort romantically involved with your character? Personally I'd advise against that. Make them a squire then second in command.

>>51978205
/pfg/ is all about gestalt these days. More power, makes it easier to build unique characters when not everyone is playing PoW cheese.

There's been some interest in mythic because of the recent WotR apps but personally speaking, I think it's just people who've never seen how shit mythic rules actually are.

As for themes, it seems like "naughty but not actually ERP" is the way to go.

When you level up, do you prefer to get extra hit points or skill lvls?

ffs let gestalt die

>>51978205
No gestalt, remove gestalt.

Mythic can be fun, but weird.

No E6.

Have the setting be in Golarion to make it easy on you.

Cutting through the jungle down south might be fun.

>>51978227
>Mythic E6

I ran some games with this. It's one way to reel in the Mythic bullshit. Players got to about 10 bonus feats and 2 mythic ranks. There was a lot of bullshit like a Magus with tons of damage, the sorcerer having access to the entire wizard spell list at will, and a halfling with +6 with all aid anothers.

Still, it was a good time to run for me.

>>51978253
I prefer skill ranks, but it depends on my Con score and hit dice. Sometimes those extra HP actually feels significant.

I would never take additional HP on a Barbarian for instance.

On a 10 con sorcerer? I might be inclined to.

>>51978264
no

>>51978277
That sounds incredible. Although i'd probably start the mythic ranks after reaching level 6, personally. It'd give the party a new goal and all.

>>51978205
>E6
maybe

>gestalt
Please god, let it end

>Mythic
Maybe

>Setting
I'd like to do something in a jungle or brackish swamp, or otherwise hot, humid, nasty, and deadly terrain.

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>>51977504

I think that much of the problem lies in:

1. The aether barrage shape.
2. The Merciful Pulse feat.
3. The Overcharge Modulation feat.
4. The Steel's Betrayal feat.

I doubt that a global debuff to aether pulse is all that warranted; if you do that, then it simply means that every avowed will flock to Merciful Pulse, Overcharge Modulation, and Steel's Betrayal to shore their damage up.

>>51978294
It depends on how you want the mythic power to play into the plot. In my case, the players needed to defeat 7 powerful celestials to gain their power to save the world. Killing 6 would get them to mythic rank 3.

Since it was kind of the plot of the game, I gave them their first mythic rank at level 5.

I've never played a gestalt game, but the idea seems good. It looks like it'd do more for the weaker classes than the stronger ones who tend not to need extra features and the extra character building and play options it gives you early seem nice.

What's the argument against it? Pathfinder's balanced is so fucked in the first place that it doesn't seem like the one to make.

>>51978199
Says the guy unironically defending an avatarfag

I currently running a campaign with the following conditions:
>party of five
>four members are level 4, one is level 5
>all members of a mercenary company, the level 5 character is a Major, the rest are Lieutenants or Sergeants
>the party is special among the mercenaries because they got exposed to a powerful mythic creature dying, them along with five other guys for ten total were exposed
>seven of the members were in the company, one wasn't but was convinced to join, and two are part of another mercenary company
>the party is now sent out ahead by their commander because the commander doesn't trust their new employer around them (because the employer is a mythic being who wants more ranks)
>the party is being accompanies by forty-five other guys for fifty total
>party is the scouting group through an evil sapient jungle, digging through ruins and what not, and reporting back
>the new employer is having them burn a whole through the jungle to recover an artifact at the center

I could talk more about it, it's the first low level mythic game I have been running. The center of the jungle constitutes their next chance at more mythic sparks.

>>51978342
Balance, it's a lot of fucking shit to track on a sheet, it can lend itself to a lot of overlap between characters and so make each one a bit less special

>>51978342
people think it breaks games but honestly as someone who GMs gestalt they're not actually as insanely powerful as people think due to action economy, they're like 1.3 to 1.5 as strong as normal chars, and they can get overwhelmed like everyone else.

>>51978363
I'm actually kinda curious as to how a partial gestalt would run... Like say, if they're a Tier 4 or 5 class, they get to gestalt with another tier 4 or 5 class, Tier 3s can gestalt up to 10th level, after that, their other half stops progressing, and Tier 1s and 2s don't gestalt at all.

>>51978363
It's not so much about it breaking the game, the issue is there is a much bigger difference between good and back characters as compared to non-gestalt.

>>51978377
>Like say, if they're a Tier 4 or 5 class, they get to gestalt with another tier 4 or 5 class

wouldn't change much

>>51978342
It's clunky, lots of things to track, weird interactions with systems like Spheres, most concepts can be made without it.

>>51978377
That'd be retarded. The Tier 3 rule is bum fuck retarded.

>>51978342
What gestalt is supposed to do: make characters have extra abilities that make them more versatile and generally useful in almost any situation even if they're not full casters.
What actually happens: people make hyperspecialized characters that make it impossible to have a fun and challenging encounter when their area of specialization comes into play.

Or at least, that's the main argument against gestalt. And even if that ISN'T an issue, it still makes everything that much more messy and complicated, emphasizing Pathfinder's flaws rather than fixing them.

>>51978361
>>51978363
>>51978377

I had a personal idea about a minor gestalt. At character creation, you get some gestalt-like benefits to round out your character's weaknesses.

You could pick a minor benefit from a list like:
>Full BAB
>D10 HD
>+2 Skill Ranks per level
>5 or so bonus class skills, or a themed group of class skills
>Turn one bad save into a good one

And we could take it a step further with another list of major benefits that you would pick from.

>2/3rds casting like a bard or magus
>Fighter/Ranger feat progression
>Slayer/Rogue talent progression

Etc etc. Obviously needs tuning, but does this sound at all appealing?

>>51978421
If you want minor gestalt, why not just hand everyone a free VMC?

>>51978421
Ooh, i'm a fan of houseruling, and this sounds _really_ neat... I'll be saving this if I can get more game ideas beyond "Ew gestalt", and there's this one fighter homebrew I wanted to use in my last game I advertised on here that had "Medium Save Progression" that ended in +10, so that might be useful as a middle ground for some other classes too.

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>>51978246
I'm unsure about allowing gestalt in my own games. I see the options it brings, but I have no idea how to balance for it and I don't think it fits the theme.

Players are shitty barely-recruit soldiers starting out. Irregulars, yeah, but still recruits.

>>51978444
honestly when i GM gestalt games i up the difficulty of fights a bit and thats about it

>>51978437
VMC also a good idea, in concept at least. I would probably tweak them a bit to be stronger. Like having Gunslinger not be garbage, or giving Monk VMC actual monk AC.

>>51978361
>>51978387
I can see the argument about it being bloated and creating too much overlap, but I just can't wrap my head around the argument that it unbalances the game.

Pathfinder is just already so ridiculously broken and I can't imagine gestalts doing much to make it worse. The guys at the top just aren't much impacted by it at all, nothing in the world can stop full caster supremacy the way the game is designed, and adding power to a well-built Wizard seems redundant, all the best classes will still be using their main options which already cover everything.

>>51978470
The overlap is an issue. Specialization is required to make sure you don't step on all the other players toes.

Let's say that the difference between a good and a bad character is normal pathfinder is 1 to 10. In Gestalt it's 1 to 100. Even though 1 to 10 is still a massive distance Gestalt increases it ten fold.

>>51978484
i disagree, but thats an optimization argument.

Yes, a highly optimized gestalt character will blow someone out of the water if they can't optimize like.. At fucking all, but on the other side, Gestalt generally lets people build character builds that would otherwise be non-optimal, and you would rarely see some of the builds i've seen in gestalt elsewhere because they just.. wouldn't work

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/70727/romance-of-the-righteous-kingdoms

Due date for submissions is midnight of the 25th, EST.

>still gestalt
>not even point buy
>basically just WotR's rules with some tweaks

>>51978484
>normal pathfinder is 1 to 10. In Gestalt it's 1 to 100
No see, that's exactly the part I can't wrap my head around. If someone is opposed to gestalt because it's clunky, because it makes weird characters, or because it creates group overlap, then I think that's fine. They might be right, they deserve their opinion.

But in Pathfinder, I don't see a gestalt going to 100. 10 in Pathfinder is a properly built full caster who can do virtually everything in the game, I don't think a gestalt is going to do much to change that at all, the bar is just set so ridiculously high, so your gestalt wizard is just picking up say, a d12 hit die with martial options they never use, or divine casting that competes with their action economy. Whatever.

But on the opposite end of the power spectrum, your Fighters and Rogues gain access to new toys or martial tools that stack with what they already do. I don't see any way gestalt would raise the ceiling, but it seems like the floor would become higher.

>>51978516
>39 point array
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

>>51978421
So i'm going to possibly use these for a game, plus a free VMC, maybe, unless it'd be better to replace VMC with "Progress your VMC by 1 level every 2nd level", which would be just pseudo-gestalt at that point. Worth noting I might also do homebrew to increase the power levels of lesser classes like Unchained Rogue, Fighter, etc, and a few feat tax removals/reductions as well because that's how I like to roll. I'll probably post more details about those later when it isnt almost 3:30 in the morning.

E6/E8/E10/E12 and Mythic is still up in the air, as is the setting, thematics, etc. Anyone have ideas towards those?

>>51978516
>everyone has Leadership
and dropped

>>51978516
>1 Social, 1 Race and 1 Combat Trait, plus the Campaign Trait
That's a really particular rule. Not opposed to it, but I'm wondering why you included it. Default rules already prevent stacking trait types, and the rest of your character creation rules seem tailored towards an extremely high power level game so I don't think you're doing it to curb minmaxing.

>>51978516
>it's shitty Lawful Good universe crusades

No thank you! But good luck.

>>51978583
To clarify, the idea is more "everybody has a support network of non-combat dudes", since we'll be using Kingmaker or some other set of kingdom/group management rules.

>>51978595
I'll actually probably adjust that.

>>51978597
Hey dude, Lawful Evil can get all up in thur too. The Chellish have just backed off from contributing a ton of forces to the Worldwound unless someone plays a character from Cheliax.

>i actually might end up playing an OD/ZS Warder

I have become what I hate

>>51978516
The important question here is which ruleset we're using for breast size and fetishes.

>>51978691
Your imagination, anon.

>esquire calavier
>is actually just Dorkness
>aide-de-camp sincerely believes that they are a good and moral and great person and can only see the good in their actions

This is the dumbest idea i've ever had

>>51978284

How much Con are we talking about? How many HP is reasonable?

>>51978484
>The overlap is an issue. Specialization is required to make sure you don't step on all the other players toes
If players are being stroppy that people are doing similar things as them then that's a player personality problem, not an optimisation problem.

Choose players who won't throw a fit of player 2 can in fact also hold their own in a fight or be able to also assist in diplomacy instead of everyone having their own little assigned place to shine. Three wizards talking shop is far more entertaining than one wizard monologing at a cleric and a clueless barbarian because all three can contribute something meaningful other than comic relief on a skill check.

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>>51979282
>>51979282
>>51979282