/pfg/ - Pathfinder General

>>51970757
We killed a dragon-turtle! It steamed our summoned dolphins...
I made dolphin sous vide!

>>51970757
I like that part of Way of the Wicked where the water elementals try to knock you off the boat and into the awaiting dolphin murder squad below the water.

>>51970777

You're not supposed to eat those, anon! Dolphins are smart!

Folks, how best do I use Eternal Guardian?

Eternal Guardian and Primal Fury, possibly? I'm looking at it for a Brutal Slayer Stalker//Barbarian Gestalt

>>51970806
Anon, they were already dead! Wasting food is criminal, especially when it's already prepared and just needs a good searing!

>>51970806
They were already dead though. It'd be a waste to let good sea food go to waste.

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Currently working on a small-sized race, an oread/merfolk hybrid of sorts. Chances are they'd start building corral for the aquatic terrors to be farmed in.

>>51970831
>>51970832

No! No no no! Stop! You wouldn't eat a human, and you shouldn't eat a dolphin!

>>51970806

So are pigs, but that doesn't change the fact that they're delicious.

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>>51970854
>You wouldn't eat a human
YOU DON'T KNOW ME! YOU DON'T KNOW MY LIFE.

>>51970854

Of course you don't eat humans-that's how you get kuru. Dolphins usually don't have transmittable prion diseases, though.

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>>51970757
Depends on the size of 'em.

Second for Betrothed is awful.
>Dragon Pact Betrothed
Alright!
>Reduced Aether Pulse
Makes sense
>Neat companion
Sounds fun
>Wings idealization doesn't grant flight
If you MUST remove flight for early level balance, why not just have it be something that gets stronger with level, like the Alteration Sphere? No flight with it at first, but as you level up it gains flight, and then faster flight.
>Growth gives you all the penalties for size increases, but none of the benefits.
Why though?

I can understand not wanting low levels to have a Large Companion... but why not just level lock how big it can get?

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>>51970757
>aquatic terrors
It's all bad down there.
Aquatic Elves and the various merfolk try to command the shallows where they can get assistance from their land-bound cousins, but the Sahuagin with their Malenti mutants push hard against the peace, aided in the dark parts of the world by Deep Ones, Grindylow, and the occasional Aboleth.
Further deep, down where the light of the sun no longer reaches, abandon all hope ye who enter here. It is the domain of the Aboleth and their Scum, enslaved leviathans and greater beings put to work for an empire that spans the seafloor and views the air breathing creatures that scurry on the surface as quaint delicacies and a passing fad of evolution. They are organized, they communicate with each other, they are prepared, and they will see you long before you see them.

Can you crit fail on concentration checks?

>>51970891
Ask
Your
GM
Cause
It's
Really
Entirely
GM
FIAT
if
You
Can
Crit
Fail
Anything
Unlike
Your
Life

>>51970871

GOSH HECKING DARN IT, THIS IS HOW YOU GET THE BAD DISEASES!

>>51970891
Let me answer your question with another question: Is it a saving throw or attack roll?

>>51970881
>kuru
Isn't that only from eating the brains? The rest of the meat's aokay?

>>51970891
Concentration checks are neither A. A save or B. An attack roll. So you cannot crit fail a concentration check. This also means at higher levels you can defensive cast spells in melee without a failure chance.

>>51970854
Are you telling me you would pass up on freshly made dolphin sous vide made by a chef with +20 to Profession (Chef) and who's worked at all of Absalom's most famous eateries and knows exactly how to prepare any dish?

>>51970897
Get a load of this scrublord.

>>51970884
Second for more to see this.

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>(2 weeks from now)
The waiting's the hardest part.

What are some of the better 4th level Wizard spells?

>>51970918

Absalom makes disgusting food, their chowdah is rubbish! RUBBISH!

And how's you going to get that mercury out, huh. I don't wanna be shooting no silver bullets you know what I'm sayin?

>>51970911
>An attack roll
Why would it being an attack roll allow you to crit fail any check? You can't crit fail an attack.

>>51970989

>Wait for two weeks
>Post a character one day before decision time
>They get in

>>51970910

Well, the brain has the highest concentration of the particles that cause the disease, but really, it doesn't seem like something to roll the dice on unless you're starving.

>>51970997
You are wrong.

And a single steak isn't going to render you any more sterile.

>>51971015
>Know GM for years.
>Know all his magical realm
>Make character to align with his
>Get in.
>Laugh

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>>51971015
>not posting a character three minutes before decision time and getting in
You are like the worst procrastinator.

>>51971034

What is SE's magical realm?

>>51971001
If you roll a 1 on a save or an attack you automatically fail.

>>51970884
>If you MUST remove flight for early level balance, why not just have it be something that gets stronger with level, like the Alteration Sphere? No flight with it at first, but as you level up it gains flight, and then faster flight.

You can pick up flight as a clause starting from level 6. If you really don't want to spend a clause, you both get it automatically at level 10.

>Growth gives you all the penalties for size increases, but none of the benefits.

Size bonuses to CMB will help out grapple builds.
Also if you're large with 5ft reach you still threaten a larger area than a medium creature with 5ft reach.

I do think it should get reach though, main problem is that it quickly gets silly with reach weapons - like Aether Blade with is available in house and would instant 20ft reach with no blindspots

>>51971021

Let's just say I'm not allowed around magnets, between here and Kintargo I've gotten quite a bit of metal invested and ingested.

>>51971052

He's said on a number of occasions, that he likes exaggerated bodies

>>51971091
does that mean lolis won't get in

>>51971052
Thick thighs, wide hips, it seems.

I'm a terrible person so I'm going to ask again!

So my character concept for dragon two games can be summed up thusly:
>one of the few dwarven families living under the Queen's rule
>family is famous as vault builders and bankers
>character is the prodigal son of the family, prodigy locksmith
>by day he makes locks and vaults as Rokar Chapman, respected artisan
>by night he is the notorious bank robber Snap Iron

At the moment I am thinking Hidden Blade Legendary Rogue + Alchemical Scoundrel Vigilante, as it provides all the things I need out of vigilante and the material for Hidden Blade, Legendary Rogue, and Alchemical Scoundrel are already approved.

Now something I have having a hard time with is the original reason my character became a safe cracker/bank robber/hoard thief. He would have a longstanding friend who was a dragon who got him into the business years ago. He and the dragon have known each other since they were both kids, the dragon now in the Juvenile or Young Adult age category and the character in his 50s. The two of them would have made a career out of robbery to increase the younger dragon's hoard and line the dwarf's pockets. By day they are partners in the Dwarf's vault making/locksmith business, by night they are partners in crime.

Would a dragon make a good partner in crime?

>>51971100

Exaggeration can mean a great number of things. The simplest example would be a woman with an absurdly voluptuous figure or a huge muscle man. Alternatives include the lanky bishie badass, the slender gym bunny with an emphasized ass, and yes, even lolis. But that kid better look like a kid, dammit!

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>>51970881
Well, Kuru isn't completely bad to have, just depends on the strain.

Okay folks, I'm trying to figure out Spheres, and I've finally settled on making Rory Karsykys a Brutal Slayer//Shifter. However, I need help! I want to make him a master of changing shape and form, and want to make a werewolf! I really just want to figure out how because the Shifter seems like it would be perfect for this!

>>51971040
>not submitting your character after the deadline and begging to be included in the already-in-progress selection process
It's like you people have never procrastinated before.

>>51971128
Specifically missions that require stealth? No.

>>51971144
Do you have the Shapeshifter's Handbook for Spheres?

>>51971154

>Not PMing the character to the DM while a session's already going on

>>51971132
okay but in this case it means big tits and ass

>>51971133

Not sure I get the reference, but alright.

>>51971190
But this is the manly men game, so what would that magical realm mean in this context?

Just thick-hipped shota?

>>51971190

The solution is simple.

Oppai loli.

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>>51970962
This game, pic related, is what they should be looking at when they model Betrothed Avowed.

This guy right here, he's what a Dragon Pact Betrothed Avowed should be like - maybe not to the Video Game MC levels that he is, but if you're making a Dragon Pact Avowed you should be able to have a working dragon as your companion.

Likewise, his party in the game are all Betrothed Avowed, quite easily! Pedo Hermit Man is a Fae Pact (with his faerie being a fucking -dick-), Cannibal Elf Chick is an Elemental Pact (though dual elements), and Shota Elf Kid is also Elemental Pact (with an Earth Elemental Golem who he just kept putting Growth into).

>>51971055
I'm less concerned about the reach and more concerned about the fact that it doesn't get the typical Strength bonuses to size which a companion does, to compensate for the increasing penalties to its attack rolls.

>>51971166
I was thinking a White Dragon. At the age category I am looking at he'll have a +14 to stealth. Not quite mine, but comparable. Now the question is if the dragon would have his feats changed around to be stealthier.

>>51971176
No, is it in the trove?

>>51971091
>>51971100
>>51971106

my kinks are vast and varied as the sea and all the life contained within. While it all Stems from an appreciation of Exaggerated physiques.

That said, just because i like things doesn't mean i don't include things. About the only thing i will never include is stuff that will positively make a normal person vomit.

>>51971132
pretty much nailed it.

if you're trying to titillate me, just give them a body feature that "Pops"


>>51971206
>oppai loli

And you need to be taken out back and shot.

>>51971203
>But this is the manly men game

/pfg/ headcanon isn't relevant

>>51971203

>Implying manly men don't need a token girl and maybe all have a go at her, possibly at the same time.

>>51971055
>You can pick up flight as a clause starting from level 6. If you really don't want to spend a clause, you both get it automatically at level 10.

I don't want to be flying through the sky held aloft by some fairy dust magic BS. I want to be flying on the back of my huge dragon companion whose wings can blot out the sun and can blow down a field of grain like the gales of a hurricane when she takes off.

>>51971091
He likes them 'thick' and growing...if you get what I mean.

>>51971211
>Unless otherwise noted, a customization can only be selected once

It's just a -1.
In contrast, +2 strength can mean a lot of things, especially if your companion takes Embodiment of Aether.

>>51971217
Most likely, I don't know because I bought my copy.

Anywho, it has options and sidebars for people who wanna use Alteration to be a Werewolf and stuff. Also it grants a feat for people who just want to be able to shapeshift into a specific form without investing into the sphere

>>51971206
Oppai loli, no.
Superbusty shorties, yes.

>>51971252
Dope. I'll look for it.

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>>51971246
Noice.

>>51971178
>Not PMing the character to the DM to retroactively insert them into the session ten minutes before the next session.

>>51971250
>Only taken once.
>Literally cannot have a huge dragon to ride on

Fuck that. I'm out. This archetype is trash unless you want a waifu.

>>51971220
>About the only thing i will never include is stuff that will positively make a normal person vomit.

So you're not allowing poison focused builds, or builds specializing in inflicting sickened/nauseated on enemies?

>>51971246
almost every depiction of western dragons would be physically incapable of flight with a wingspan of the size it has
it's gotta be magic that's keeping them up even if they don't admit it

>>51971304

not talking mechanics when i say not include something. i mean themes.

>>51971304
There is no physical way for something of that size to fly, regardless of how big its wingspan is. The wings would just break at a certain point, the bones/joints can't handle the weight of a dragon.

>>51971128
fuck off, DHB

>>51971220

What are some exaggerations of the body you particularly like, or maybe don't see often enough and thus appreciate them when they occur?

>Hard Mode: Can't be sexual

>>51971358

Hair length.

>>51971341
>>51971304

According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a dragon should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The dragon, of course, flies anyway because dragons don't care what humans think is impossible

>>51971369

Anything for men?

>>51971358
Overall height.

>>51971304
>>51971341
Do you mugga even know what an (Ex) ability is? (Ex) abilities aren't magic even if they break physics. A Dragon's flight doesn't get shut down in an Anti-Magic Zone, therefore it's (Ex). And here you are, falling into the same thought trap that keeps Paizo from making nice things, for DRAGONS of all creatures.

Any advice for someone playing Lawful Evil for the first time?
My current GM is starting a new game tomorrow where we're all evil drow living in a drow city underground, should be great.

>>51971344
What did DHB ever do to you?

>>51971217
Ey
Ey anon

http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/start

>>51971451
Oh oky that works. thank you

>>51971435
Posted literally the same thing in about five threads now instead of taking the hint

>>51971409
>falling for the memes

anon, I...

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>>51971392

Hair length

>>51971211
It's been a Long time since I've thought about Drakengard 1. So remind me.

Is there anything that he/they do together that would make them fit as a Betrothed?

>>51971369
I can't quite tell whether I like your taste or not

You adore big fat titty mosters with narcolepsy

But then you say this kind of shit

>>51971291
Oh it absolutely is, it was expressly designed as the waifu archetype afaik.

>>51971500
>Muh "the only difference between (Su) and (Ex) is is flavor :^)"

>>51971498
What's so bad about wanting to discuss a character? Posting something multiple times is not something to get bitter about. It's not if he's trolling, he's asking about a character concept.

Also it has changed, like 3 times. He changes it a bit every time he posts it.

What 'hint' is he not getting? That he shouldn't discuss pathfinder in /pfg/?

>>51971392
Look at this faggot! I betchya he can't even kill a thousand men with a jawbone!

Okay, guys, I really don't know what to do with Rory Karskys. The only things I know is that I want to do a STR/WIS build, I want initiating with primarily supernatural disciplines, and I want at least good saves in Fortitude and Will. Does anybody have suggestions? I'm really at a loss here.

>>51971518

There's even a waifu feat, Guardian Spirit, which gives you instant two-way communication with your patron (who is established as being very, very close to you, like family or a lover) along with an extra skill point per level and +1 to saves against spells and Charisma based checks!

>>51971512
>>51971547

Hah!

>>51971512

Is... Is that Sampson and Delilah?

>>51971514
They make a mutual pact with each other, that gives them both the strength to MURDER THE FUCKING SHIT OUT OF EVERYONE WHO CROSSES THEM.

So you know, pretty standard betrothed.

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>>51971572

curtosy, of The Strange Talent of Luthor Strode comic.

>>51971344
How about YOU fuck off.

>>51971579
>I hate dragons and humans, but mostly dragons, and want to murder them
>I hate humans and dragons, but mostly dragons, and want to murder them
>I hate you, and you hate me, but if we team up, we can collectively murder MORE humans and dragons

what a team

>>51971514
Caim occasionally flies around on Agelus's back and she breaths fire on shit.

Caim can also do fire magic stuff.

>>51971539
I'm just sick of him and whoever's playing the wolf dude opening every thread by begging for feedback on what incremental change /pfg/ recommended last thread.

We're still here, for one, and for two, show some fucking initiative and design your own character.

>>51971602
It also helps they were both dying at the time and pact making is basically a "get out of death free card".

>>51971602
I know, right? They're so fucking functional together.

>>51971602

Caim is not a nice guy.

Has there ever been a nice guy in Drakengard? Except Two, I mean.

>>51971652
>Nowe
>a nice guy
>unless you mean the other dude who was too cool for the shitty game that was Drakengard 2
>in which case you're a'ight

Seere wasn't a bad kid, but he was also kind of a lame kid.

>Want big awesome manly hero
>Want him in full plate
>Realize none of his dragon features will be visible
Does such art even exist?

>>51971621
I will admit I should likely not have continue asking, but did so mostly because I did not receive any response. I more just wanted to feel out the idea and hadn't gotten a touch back yet besides telling me to fuck off. >>51971166
Is the first folk to respond with something besides that and raised a fair point. I'll likely stop talking about the character now at least until he is mostly done.

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>>51971652
Two as in Drakengard 2? Or Two as in the Intoner?

Mikhail was pretty nice, assuming you weren't a filthy Wyvern.

Leonard too, it says a lot when the most sympathetic character for a large chunk of the game is a fucking pedophile priest.

>>51971694
That's what I mean about taking the hint.

I've got nothing against you personally, I'm just sick of seeing PLS DESIGN MY CHARACTER FOR ME in every thread.

>>51971710
I just /really suck/ at designing characters myself, because I can't stay focused on one thing long enough. I think I'll just settle on something simple and restrict myself back to Brutal Slayer Stalker and something else. I'm heavily leaning towards Invulnerable Rager Barbarian, though I am considering either Mageknight or Shifter.

>>51971203
>Just thick-hipped shota?
>tfw no thick hipped cross dressing shota applicants

>>51971765
I would, but I'd rather just play a less ridiculous base concept that could shapeshift into whatever they want after a certain point

>>51971710
>I've got nothing against you personally, I'm just sick of seeing PLS DESIGN MY CHARACTER FOR ME in every thread.
I do not really want my character designed for me. I am more attempting to feel out if my character is grossly offensive in some way. I have had issues with it before through /pfg/ games and would rather avoid it early on.

>>51971803
Design by committee removes elements of uniqueness if you choose to strip all the things people object to away.

Punch fatty was great and would have got in if not for timezones. Lucky escape there

>>51971803
Look, kid...

Sometimes, you just have to stop trying to appease everyone.

Grab that slut right by her pussy, and j-j-j-j-jam it in.

And if anyone has issues with it. Fuck 'em too.

>>51971579
>>51971606
That seems closer to a partnership then a Betrothed pact.
Hell, a Good dragon focused companion class sounds closer. Team up and Murder together seems to fit the bill for that.

Maybe a Gestalt Avowed with the twist being the pack partner is the other classes Companion.

But of why I'm kinda fighting the Betrothed angle is the part where an Aether shape used must be used by the other.

>>51971684

I do in fact have art of a big manly dragon in full plate, but unfortunately you will have to wait until tomorrow night for me to post it!

>>51971852

Caim is a dragon pact with Guardian Spirit feat.

>>51971852
>That seems closer to a partnership then a Betrothed pact.

Why can't betrothed pacts be partnerships?

>>51971696

Two as in the Intoner!

She's cute, cute cute cute!

>>51971554
I feel like Guardian Spirit should be allowed with Betrothed and just fluffed as being an extended family, or the portion of their power that they left behind and similar.
Like Daddy Dragon keeping tabs on this young adventuring whippersnapper that his little un is following around.

>>51971898

That's what they are.

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>>51971902
Two is cute, I'll give you that, but not as cute as Three, who is best girl.

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>>51971902
That maybe so but we all know who the best Drakengard waifu is.

>>51971918
>>51971935
>>51971902

Five is best girl. I love filthy sloppy sluts.

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>>51971652
It's like the perfect example of adventuring bros.

>>51971652
Do the Nier games count as Drakenguards?
Because they had quite a few nice people. Granted they were also ultimately it rant to the fact they were dooming the world, but nice nonetheless.

Really, Nier 1 could've been avoided had Popola and Devils not gone full retard on the plan and convinced Gestalt Nier to raise an army and become the Shadowlord.

>>51971898
I meant that in a "we are strong together" like cohorts animal companions then "You/we are strong through this magical/extra ordinary bond" way.

You know?

>>51971980

Kainè was NOT a nice person.

>>51971869
I can see that, easy.

>>51972014

That's a Symbiotic Pact, like the Elemental.

>>51972014
Pacts in Drakengard are explicitly magical/extraordinary bonds though, as are Betrothed pacts.

I'm...not sure what you're asking.

>>51971803
dude, we have someone who's deciding to make a kyton-touched masochist cat, I think your thief-turning-a-new-leaf or whatever will probably be fine

Should I give my char a themesong?

Does anyone else have a themesong for their chars?

>>51971211
A +2 strength bonus is a bit too potent, considering all the things it can add to. Our thought was that reach and CMB bonuses would be enough to make it valuable, but I'll bring it up and see where we stand.

Just hashed out a mostly-done sheet for Errakus. Just his bauble form, as it will likely be the one he spends 95% of his time in, and I can do a quick copy/modify for dragon form.

Critique/meme/ignore/whatever.

>>51972172

I've got a lot of theme songs for my toons!

>>51972172
I always do a themesong for my characters!

>>51972172

Sure.

Some of us even come up with group themesongs as well.

>>51972172

Theme songs are essential for writing a character's backstory.

>>51972016
Of course not her, I'm talking about Emil. Also Nier himself was a nice guy, if really overprotective of his daughter

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Two in one here

Anyone interested in playing with a noobie GM in an old western setting, small party, text only, fridays 4pm+ EST? If interested, message on Discord: Draknirv#4693

I've been trying to find a build I saw a long time ago that was essentially fighter turned into a bootleg magus with feats and an archetype but I can't seem to find it, anyone know what I'm talking about?

>>51972172
Think I've got mine for dragon game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wISIgAwuAnk

>>51972301
>newbie GM

oh fuck, don't advertise here bro

>>51972197
Looks cute so far. You gonna spam "Hey listen?" every six seconds?

>>51972325
Adverting everywhere, because as much as people complain about not having games, we're really getting trickle-fed any potential players. :(

>>51972318

Think they made his chest and lapels too small in that picture.

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>>51972301
>Darknirv
>Dark
>Nerve

>>51972370
Yeah, but you take what you can get.

>>51972198
>>51972253
>>51972289
>>51972297
>>51972318
I gusss the issue is I'm not sure what to give mine yet. I just need to listen to random OSTs or something in the meantime...

>>51972197
>>51972348
Accentuate it with a Magic Missile.

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>>51972172
>tfw can never think of a fitting theme song that isn't specifically made for another character

It burns.

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Don't hide it from me, /pfg/.

Tell me about how your character got their magic. Was he born with it? Did he study hard to master it?

>>51971128
There's not even any banks in the demense; it's a "barter favors" type community due to mostly running off magic.

>>51972353
Let me put it this way. /pfg/ is filled with people who can't comprehend making at character at less than full optimization 100% of the time.

This will be very bad for a newbie group.

>>51972437
Rory's magic came from being the descendant of a werewolf and a sorcerer. As such, I'm statting him out as a Shifter, and am making a conscious point to take every drawback that means my magic only affects me.

>>51972406

What sort of character are you making, and what kind of game are you playing? We might be able to make some recommendations.

>>51972184
Eh, it's already apparent that the archetype is not what should be done for that sort of pact - it's too married to the "waifu" concept.

Is there a possibility for an Avowed that gains a more traditional companion as their pact partner, but the companion acts less as a mini avowed and more as... well, an animal companion or Eidolon?

>>51972454
>everyone is 2hu in purgatory

>>51972172
>he DOESN'T give his characters themesongs

C'mon, step it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkBW3erFVWs

>>51972437
A dragon saw the potential born of his blood, and offered to awaken him so he could realize his true self. He accepted, but only because he thought the dragon was offering to feed him. Dumb cat.

>>51972353
Lot of people already have games on fridays.

>>51972437
Good genetics.

Dad was a Tactician in the Pathfinder's Society, so when he was born, he was already on the fast track to inheriting psionic powers.

>>51972496
My character's already made. It's for the Dragon game. Ah, don't mind me, please.

>>51972437
Concentrated autism!

>>51972425
There are many great but 'generic no-name mech' songs in SRW?

>>51972437
Mutation let him do Ki bullshit at a young age but he had to actually study and learn how to manipulate it's flow.

>>51972520
Okay then, guess I'll just pick something for you at random then.

Here's your theme song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRPXRHS4XNQ

>>51970882
he's a big guy

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>>51972551
Thank you.

>>51972507
No, it's REALLY not. The tongue-in-cheek referral to it as the waifu archetype is NOT meant to be the only option, and we want other close bonds to be just as major an option. What about the archetype doesn't work with your concept at the moment?

>>51972563
You're...welcome? Didn't expect you'd take it so well.

Why the fuck are so many 1st level bloodline powers touch attacks?

>>51972571
It was from Battletoads.

Battletoads was a game I used to play a lot with my dad. So it was very nostalgic for me too.

>>51972578
It-
1) Gives you an offensive option when you're out of spells.
2) Can hit with 1/2 BAB
3) Doesn't do too much damage.
4) Doesn't frontload the class and make people jump for a 1 level sorc dip.

>>51972507
>>51972567
That said, no, we don't have an intention of doing an animal companion or eidolon - both of those are VERY powerful class features which are difficult to balance. Our hope is that you can get the impression of a powerful dragon by focusing your companion's feats on a different playstyle. We can't afford to give the companion an entirely separate progression, as that effectively doubles the PC's options and makes it too potent.

We are, however, absolutely willing to make changes to try to make the class fit a wider variety of fantasies.

So is there any way to add the Avowed's blast to an already existing ray attack like the Atomic Adept's?

>>51972437
>>51972437
Aisha got it as a gift! from Her to Herself, or really, from her previous self.

She's been passing it down to herself and building it, but the way she got it originally was from a relic that was ancient when the ancients walked the land. It's that little piece missing from every soul, the hole that pulls people to the outer planes but when filled gives power.

Now if she could just remember what the hell it was...

>>51972420
>>51972348
Depends how annoying/thick-headed other party members are at the moment. So, none yet, but we will see.

>>51972184
I think the problem we're seeing here is this:
The Betrothed Pact thematically has three... 'branches' people could take.
>Direct battle partner where it's about doubling up your blasting and fighting back to back
>Pokemon Master or "Hey! Listen!" fairy owner
>Mounted Combat

Certainly just one ability shouldn't be enough for that last one, but dragon/wyvern-rider is practically the first thing most folks will think of normally when they A) know there's a dragon pact, and B) see this pact is about travelling with the thing itself.

What if getting a full mount by 5th required all three idealizations you have by then?
Toss in a fourth required (feat possible in other words) for a full flying mount by 5-7th?

That's not cheap right?

>>51972642
>>51972507
Okay, having JUST brought it up, we'll be altering the Betrothed so that the player and companion can choose different shapes, thus allowing your Dragon to be a Rampage build while you focus on Barrage, or something similar.

>>51972643
Beyond the Tinker's wands, no. Multiclass compatibility like that isn't really our design goal - there's already plenty of in-class touch attacks as an option.

>>51972689
Do you presently not have enough feats to support this build? We will work on an option (a feat, possibly) to support this concept.

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So I'm doing Rory Karskys as a Brutal Slayer//Shifter. Just using the basic shapeshift talent, could I turn into a cute werewolf girl? So therefore, I can be both a hunky bara wolf and an adorable awoo?

>>51972507
>to attached to the "Waifu" angle
>seemingly missing the entire "buff dude and his literal dragon" talk

M8, you could have a big slime mass as your partner.

You don't want the Betrothed, what you want is an "Aether Beast".

Which >>51972567 and Forest talked about briefly, if my memory serves.

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>>51972437
The existence of her magical aptitude is not yet known to the party but she gained her initial arcane spark from the small obsidian trinket she carries around with her. Unbeknownst to her, the item which Corwin dared her to take as a young girl is an ancient Thassilonian artifact.

>>51972567
The name alone invites waifu-ism, intentionally or not.

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>>51972709
Only if you let me pet you when you're in your awoo form.

>>51972705
I just wanna say, thank you for the quick feedback and taking our wants/needs into account for the class. Pass it on to Forrest as well!

I'm loving it all so far. The Avowed is good fun, I've got a game going where another player is being the Betrothed itself while I play the Avowed and we have to agree on things, and I am greatly looking forward to the Dungeon Lord that was teased.

>>51972709
Is it just me or are a lot of the applicants to Dragon Game 2 now running some kind of "cute/beefy" transformation schtick?

We've got you with your thing, Aisha going from hot girl to He-Man reject, Ulfric's luchador-baker or whatever he is, and I'm pretty sure at least two others.

>>51972751
Yes, and it was originally concieved when we were looking for a name meaning 'someone who has made a contract'. Betrothed was one of those, and we thought an archetype focused on a companionship with the pact partner named that would be fun.

>>51972689
What idealizations do you require? What do you need other than Large size, sorry? Talking about this, it feels like we're missing something.

>>51972770
Its because Eagle said he wanted beefcake. And now everyone's trying to appease him to increase their odds of getting in over the other 22 apps.

>>51972786
21. One of those posts is just SE clarifying a point.

>>51972786
It'll probably be like 30 or 40 by the time applications come to a close.

>>51972437
War-Maiden has always been a magical blade.

Or, do you mean her newest host?

>>51972705
I'm not the previous anon just to note. I was just thinking that since you seem to not want (reasonably so) too cheap a flying mount, which makes sense, but those things ARE a thing in game, that maybe the price just needs to be 'right'.

3 idealizations and a feat sounded like an appropriate cost to actually ride your dragon (which is already existing as a class ability after all) into battle?

Now, ME, personally? My character is beyond feat-starved. I'm in a Gestalt and don't have a *SINGLE* bonus feat from anywhere, running off the level-up ones only!

But I'm not actually playing an avowed (t'wasn't ready yet) at the moment. Perhaps next game, the updates should be out by then anyways!

>>51972760
This is acceptable. I will do this! You can pet the cute awoo head!

>>51972770
I mean, technically, Rory would still remain pretty muscular and tough-looking while in their "cute" mode, but I wouldn't consider it like, a huge shtick or something. It's just something I noticed when I was reading over the Alteration sphere

Originally, Rory was two separate but similar characters. One was smol and cute, the other was buff and bara. I just shrugged and decided, "to heck with it, I'll just combine them" when I decided to make a Brutal Slayer//Shifter.

>>51972786
Rory was always beefcake, so was Ezekiel before I scrapped him because his build was just IMPOSSIBLE to get figured out.

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>>51972810
>30 or 40

>>51972818
>but those things ARE a thing in game, that maybe the price just needs to be 'right'.

Yes, but most cheaper flying mounts aren't terrifying laser mages in their own right.

>>51972833
I mean there's probably one or two people holding onto their applications just to drop them in thread on the last day.

Maybe even three!

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>>51965691
>>51972567

>We're actually fairly comfortable with those numbers - considering the effort you've put into optimization, those resources to take out a creature only one CR above you is fairly limited.

I do not buy this at all.

The 5th-level avowed build in >>51962521 has initiative +10 and a DPR against touch AC 12 of:
((0.95 * 35) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 63.5)) * 2 = 72.5325

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3
This is well enough to consistently kill a CR 6.

Likewise, the 8th-level avowed build in >>51962959 has initiative +11 and a DPR against touch AC 12 of:
(((0.9 * 63.5) + (0.05 * 0.9 * 63.5)) * 2) + ((0.65 * 63.5) + (0.05 * 0.65 * 63.5)) = 163.35375
That is enough to kill a CR 12 on average.

Neither of these builds requires any prep time or resource expenditure. Both of these builds ignore damage reduction and have a considerable amount of noncombat utility from clauses, and the 8th-level build ignores all miss chances too.

If the balance point of the avowed is supposed to be Paizo + Avowed 1 + Avowed 2, then you would be hard-pressed to build Paizo-classed characters at 5th- and 8th-level who can achieve the same results (even mounted chargers now have to go through the March 2014 FAQ).

Off the top of my metaphorical head, the only Paizo-classed build that can outdo the above avowed at 5th-level against a CR 6 is a mounted paladin Spirited Charging an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature. That is an absolute best-case scenario for the paladin, and said paladin must also expend one of their two daily smites to do so.

Can anyone draft up Paizo-classed builds that can outdo either of the builds above in terms of consistent (i.e. high initiative, high accuracy) damage and noncombat utility? They should be equal-leveled, and they should not use tier 1 or 2 classes, as the avowed is not being balanced against them.

>>51972822
True but it's still the same principle, a cute mode and a beefcake mode. Ulfric's thing is pretty similar, where he's smiling happy house husband on the one hand and a Kenka Bancho reject on the other.

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>>51972855

>>51972893
Let's be honest with ourselves, how many apps that try to slide in at the last second, or even in the last few days, actually get given any attention or consideration compared to those a GM has already decided they want and like?

>>51972862
Truth be told, I'm probably just gonna keep the cute mode to side RP, and not make much mention of it, apart from the fact that Rory is a shapeshifter and I'm theming his magical talents around those (i.e only taking spheres that affect me, taking drawbacks that mean the spheres only affect me, focusing on alteration, etc.)

>>51972779
I was SUGGESTING what an appropriate cost might be for a flying mount, which you do not have and were saying you did not want too cheap/early.

Large is certainly required; Huge might be for a flyer if not a quadruped, depending on the rider's own weight and gear.

>>51972912
WotR reserve list was mostly last week applicants IIRC anon.
>>51972893
Please, come join me in wallowing in sadness. It's lonely here.

>>51972859
I find it interesting that you dismiss Otyugh and Fey pacts as too conditional to match up to Fey pact, and yet you include the +2 bonus from Underworld Guide in your initiative calculations without mentioning the 10% swing in initiative if you're above ground rather than underground.

>>51972859
>Is told that the problem isn't as big as it's being made out to be.
>Cannot accept it.
That said, I think that the numbers so far are only slightly on the high side, and that your caveat of not using tier 1 or 2 classes is rather self-defeating.
Also, when speaking of resources they are probably counting feat slots and clause choices etc as resources locked into that choice, not just daily use type things.

>>51972859
5th level inherently favors Avowed in this comparison compared to 6th level when martials get their first iterative attacks.

>>51972932
Yeah, but those aren't the ones who got picked. They'd been in evidence for weeks.

SwimmingEagle, bruh.

Get an IRC channel open so we can shitpost outside of /pfg/.

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So how long until somebody grabs a drawfriend or springs to get some cutey Otyugh-girl or otherwise betrothed companion art?

>>51972859
Not has, "can potentially get".
It's a bit like how a few days ago you were arguing "how would anyone ever *NOT* start with 18 dex, take insectile transformation (pre-downgrade) on a tiefling for the FCB and immediately take a +2 dex belt by level 5?"

Your builds are telling people that the maxed out , GM-stumping combinations at the ceiling of the class are capable of those numbers. And those numbers are matching up with barbarians, PoW characters, a Gambler with a Leviathan Crossbow, and so on.

If balance was based around only the absolute optimal choices, then the average player, hell even the average /pfg/-goer, would look at the class and see another kineticist. And I don't mean the new ones.

>>51972846
Which is one of the reasons why Betrothed needs to be gutted and rewritten from the ground up, if you're not going to have a second archetype for a less Waifu-centric archetype.

As written, you cannot emulate a powerful dragon. You can barely emulate a dragon.

>>51972976
I thought Otyughs were cute and innocent? This image is false representation. My little Otyugh would never attack a village!

>>51972770
I'm not. I'm just a bird.

A bird with magic and skill.

>>51973007
It's because of otyugh abuse. If you don't feed an otyugh, it gets desperate and hungry.

>>51972994
You shouldn't have a dragon at low levels in the game.
It is up for discussion whether you should have a dragon at all.

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>>51972936

>Darklands Guide (2 RP): Those who brave the lightless tunnels below Golarion’s surface learn to identify the dangerous phenomena that characterize the Darklands. Characters with this trait gain a +2 bonus on initiative checks, and on saves against traps and hazards when underground (from a lifetime of dodging accursed pools, cave-ins, and green slime).

>Drow and half-elves can take this trait in place of keen senses. Tieflings can take this trait in place of the darkness spell-like ability.

Darklands guide (known as "underworld guide" on d20pfsrd.com) grants +2 initiative as a separate, unconditional clause. Otherwise, it would be written:
>Characters with this trait gain a +2 bonus on initiative checks and saves against traps and hazards when underground (from a lifetime of dodging accursed pools, cave-ins, and green slime).

>>51972939

>your caveat of not using tier 1 or 2 classes is rather self-defeating.
If it takes a tier 1 or 2 class to match up to the aggregate combat power and noncombat utility of the avowed, then that is a poor sign.

>Also, when speaking of resources they are probably counting feat slots and clause choices etc as resources locked into that choice, not just daily use type things.
And those other builds are free to use those same feat slots.

The two avowed builds in the previous thread use up exactly *one* least clause slot, and preserve all others.

>>51972953

I will gladly run a comparison of a 7th-level avowed to a 7th-level chained barbarian, something that *should* favor the barbarian due to the avowed being a level away from their first iterative attack.

>>51973036
Then don't make an archetype centered around giving you a fucking Dragon/Fair/Lich/What Have You.

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>>51973036
>We could just look for a balanced solution, but I hate fun so no.

>>51973055
Did you read the fucking archetype? The whole point is it brings the other being down to your level, so they grow with you. Built right into the fluff.

You're talking about either the Guardian Spirit feat (for having a powerful ally who you can contact and is an NPC) or the Leadership feat, at higher levels, not a goddamn class feature.

>>51972859
>>51972939
The level 8 build's numbers are indeed too high at the moment. We'll work on retuning that. However, as said, we're comfortable with where the level 5 build is, and fighter builds should be able to manage similar damage at that level (or at least level 6).

>>51972994
The Betrothed pact abilities are always tuned to use both you and your companion's actions, so as to ensure that the Betrothed's superior action economy does not make it a massive improvement. With the exception of the Dunwich Horror-inspired Old One pact, none of the abilities are intended to be focused on a romantic/sexual relationship with your partner - and even with them, it's an entirely PG rated metaphor for the creation of children rather than anything explicit (or even IMPLICIT). Channeling your bond with your mounted dragon is not inherent a romantic act.

>>51972926
The Ascension class feature and the size betrothed customization should be enough to manage a mounted build, unless I'm missing something?

>>51973055
>>51973084
This is a class that allows you to begin play with a dragon, tuned appropriately for a level 1 character. We are not going to write a class that allows you to start play with a CR 10 monster.

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I'm debating making my own airship-based game, but I'm still working out details. I'd like it to be an early industrial revolution(think napoleonic period) and have a general military theme. Intrigue, traitors, guns, line infantry, cavalry, ect.

Any ideas to throw at me? What would you want to see?

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How do I make a Pathfinder campaign feel like an old school D&D campaign?

I haven't played any of the older D&D versions besides 3.5 but I was told and imagine there's less of a super hero focus (like how some PF games can run) and more of a "you're barely above peasant-level, just try to survive" focus. I'm generalizing of course, but I was thinking of basically making a dungeon with a ton of floors and put a bunch of monsters, traps, treasures, and a dragon at the bottom of it, weaving some main plot adventure hook to keep the PCs investigating, like stopping the BBEG from summoning a Demon King, for example. The PCs are level 1, limited to core classes and races only (without DM approval at least, gunslinger get the fuck out of here), and doing low-fantasy point buy.

Any tips? Am I completely not doing it right? How fucking stupid am I?

>>51973104
>Any ideas to throw at me?

Do it in a different system

>>51972976
I need a drawfriend to draw some non-lewds of my char.

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>>51973098

>The level 8 build's numbers are indeed too high at the moment. We'll work on retuning that. However, as said, we're comfortable with where the level 5 build is, and fighter builds should be able to manage similar damage at that level (or at least level 6).

I will draft up a 7th-level avowed. This is a somewhat unfavorable comparison level for an avowed, because they are just a level away from an iterative attack.

Then, you (and anyone else) can compare that avowed to a 7th-level barbarian, fighter, or whatever pleases you. We know that a Spirited Charging paladin targeting an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature can outdo the avowed, but that takes absolutely best-case conditions.

Will you consider such a comparison fair?

>>51973129
It's another good data point for them to use. My recommendation is making a Google Sheet with linked pastebins to the builds for each level, comparing their average damage to the HPs of the average monsters.

>>51973098
Yes, and then it never gets tuned to be appropriate for anything much higher than level six, if that, while instead of focusing on Dragon Things (or Faerie Things, or Undead Things), it becomes a mini avowed. That is the issue I'm taking with this. It should not be a mini avowed.

And no, it's very much a waifu. Every companion option has "Humanoid" as a shape option. The dragon doesn't even have a dragon shape, for God's sake.

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>>51972992

I am afraid I fail to see your point here.

>And those numbers are matching up with barbarians
An equally optimized barbarian can and will be outshone by an equally optimized avowed.

>PoW characters, a Gambler with a Leviathan Crossbow
The avowed is not being balanced with Dreamscarred Press classes and archetypes in mind at all.

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>>51972437
They studied and studied, once or twice horribly exploded, then studied some more.

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>>51973104
>airship-based game
Make tokens of freefall extremely cheap and ubiquitous.
Make flight relatively cheap.
From a GM who has run an airship game, if you don't do at least that all combat will revolve around knocking people overboard.

If you do at least the enemies can potentially come back and PCs won't die from two botched acrobatics or climb rolls.

>>51973098
>ascension
Probably the fact that it's at level 10 (way too late, someitmes even 'post-campaign levels) and non-natural flight, so people who want, like griffon partners or the like are basically going to be stuck doing the equivalent of "casting flight" on the big winged thing because its wings can't even flap right due to having no upgrades.

>>51973140
>2hu
>ever using google sheets/pastebin when he can just spam the threads

>>51973140
>2hu
>not shitting up the thread with walls of text
Ha.

>>51973142
So what's your issue? That you're looking at an archetype whose concept is "your patron brings themselves down to mortal, then levels up as an avowed alongside you" and looking for something else?

>>51973098
You shouldn't start with a CR 10 monster, but by the time you're level 10 you should probably be able to have something that MIMICS that CR 10 monster if you so desired

>>51973110
Use different systems. No really.
Pathfinder does not lend itself well to the oldschool style and feel.

>>51973098
You are missing something

Most of these creatures do not fly by magic. Fairies have wings. Dragons have wings. Some undead have ratty wings. Cthulhu has wings too.

>>51973165
You're looking for the summoner, anon, not the betrothed.

I want to pet all of you!

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>>51973116
That's what everyone seems to say, but then Sky Pirates was getting pretty popular, so I don't see what's wrong with airships in pathfinder. To tell the truth, I hardly need to houserule anything at all --there's working and reasonable rules for all of this already existing in pathfinder.

>>51973156
Ahead of you there. Mass production of alchemical items(gunpowder, potions, ect.) quickly turned into mass production of simple magical items. Industrial revolution, ho!

>>51973174
I feel like there's some kind of disconnect, because why the hell the Betrothed companion is allowed to do all sorts of bullshit, but "can at least kind of resemble a dragon mechanically" is somehow magically "too much".

>>51973142
They all have humanoid as an option because the intention is - since they have a close personal bond to you - they have the option of taking on a form that does not seperate them from you. There are no base stats for a Dragon shape because two wings and four legs would be more powerful than other starting shapes. We kept the dragon starting shape simple because we wanted to ensure that people could build their dragon however they wanted, whether it be a sea serpent, a dragon turtle, a wyvern, or a traditional western dragon.

>>51973171
There is a wings customization available for those whose DMs will not allow them to refluff their fly speed as having wings.

>>51973169
How about 5e? Would that lend itself better?

Or I could pick up some aD&D pdfs, but I'm not familiar with that at all

>>51973214
Can you upload the latest version of Avowed? The link at the top isn't working for me for some reason.

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>>51973189

>>51973153

Nothing teaches you to be careful with magic quite like reducing your own arm to meat sauce.

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>>51973129

That would be interesting to see and a worthwhile data point for this. Your builds have been useful for fine-tuning where we want our numbers to be.

I'll echo >>51973140 though and recommend perhaps using a pastebin for it; while the builds are helpful, it's easier to fetch a pastebin later than it is to search through the /tg/ archives.

To the rest of the people commenting on the betrothed, I really do want to thank you for this discussion; it's helpful for getting a good look at how the archetype is received and seen, and for understanding what people want out of it versus what it currently offers. We're planning a large update to Avowed 2 soon, and these discussions will be accounted for.

>>51973225
Gotcha covered.

>>51973158
Take Flight is a permanent, constant effect that does not need to be cast unless it's dispelled. That said, I've got an idea on how to avoid your companion's inherent abilities being dispelled. We'll see how that pans out.

>>51972859
Kys

>>51973285
Why not just put them into a pastebin yourself? You have hands, keyboard and a mouse.

>>51973162
I'm looking for a

"My patron and I are eachother's patron, and as we grow together we gain strength in different ways."

Like, I make my pact with a Mini Drake, or a Pixie, or some basic bitch undead who wants to get stronger, or ye small fragment of an outer god which is only beginning to burble.

>>51973214
And that wings customization is useless. It's even specifically called out as useless in its text. That customization in particular is really irksome, actually, second to "Muh No Strength Increases Despite Size Changes Being Dependent On Them To Function".

>>51973151
We know you can't see it. That's a bit of a problem though.

When the base values of a class are lowered in order to make the extreme fringes of CharOp fit where the balance was intended to be, you end up with a shit class that can't do fuck-all unless every last trick is found and figured out - and even then it's only as good as other classes are in their own average.

That is the worry here, because then a single suboptimal choice like wanting to play a different race will collapse.

Also, be careful about deliberately avoiding the breakpoints as you did by choosing level 5; things like a barbarian get extra attacks one level later. It's not that doing this makes the numbers incorrect, but rather it's a deceptive practice, like when comcast advertises speeds "up to".

>>51973215
It could yes. There are MANY systems out there with varying levels of depth, complexity, and so on. Good and bad. Hell, the thread you're in isn't one of the good ones, and we acknowledge this freely. We're all just really autistic and like to minmax things and complain too.

>>51973302
I actually put them in a google doc. I figure that it might be easier on everyone involved to skip the middleman, though.

Should I make a dragon-blooded Tiefling for Dragons, or a Human?

>>51973197
>That's what everyone seems to say, but then Sky Pirates was getting pretty popular, so I don't see what's wrong with airships in pathfinder.

you're going to let one failed game dissuade you from following the earnest advice of "everyone"? i'm not trying to fuck with you buy there are better systems for an airship setting

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>>51973285

I do not use pastebin.com unless it is absolutely necessary.

>>51973319

If the most optimized possible, say, avowed heavily outshines the most optimized possible barbarian or fighter of an equal level (in terms of combat alone, not just in terms of noncombat), then that is still a sign that the avowed is much too much.

>>51973366
We're telling you it's absolutely necessary because we're tired of having four page-sized posts looming over the thread scaring people away and starting shitfests. Like the one going on right now.

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>>51973394

The builds in question use only two posts at the very most.

>>51973366
>I do not use pastebin.com unless it is absolutely necessary.
Great, it's absolutely necessary then. Feedback is fine, but the entire stat sheet does not need to be in the thread at all. That you continue to do so is actively making other people enjoy the thread less, so unless you're psychopathic as well as autistic please, please pastebin that shit.

>>51973411
You post several builds per thread. Often several different VERSIONS of those builds.

>>51973197
I ran an all flying campaign a while back, it lasted several years from levels 6 to 16 to conclusion.

Ez mode: flying cities that act as nation states, horrible monsters on the ground, giant flying monsters everywhere else and politics is everywhere between warring nations scrabbling for advantages to say afloat (literally).

Flying Griffon Knights, airship battalions, sky pirates and shipping routes, Big Monster Hunts, ancient tombs on the ground, political intrigue is all possible. At that point you can even grab your players and have them design a city or give some ideas for cities their characters could come from.

Some of my flying cities were:
Alestia, land of uptight somewhat grey paladins on griffons
Firebrandt, upside down academy of mages
The Strip, giant force bowl of sand which pirates turned into floating Las Vegas
And so on.

Super fun and immersive. Players went the political route but could easily have gone to hunt the mile long demon wyrms stalking the skies.

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>>51973364
Any suggestions for a better system, anon-san? I'm certainly open to advice, I just don't see a fair argument against using Pathfinder. As far as I can tell, these rules are only as cumbersome as a d20 system has to be.

>>51973306
With regards to the former, that's what we presently have. The line between patron and symbiotic is deliberately blurrier; some kind of advanced Otyugh lord might make more sense as a patron pact, while a quasit might be a symbiotic. Symbiotic pacts ARE about getting stronger together.

All Betrothed customizations are intended to be low-impact. That's why they don't replace anything, and why the wings don't grant a fly speed. That said, we'll be updating the wings customization to make your companion's fly speed from the Take Flight clause and Ascension class feature extraordinary and undispellable to better fit the fantasy and stop your gryphon partner from losing the ability to fly in a dead magic zone.

>>51973366
>>51973411
Pastebin makes your feedback easier to find and parse; to not do so means your feedback is considerably more likely to get noted as we can find it easily, as 4chan's format does not allow us to find or save your posts. In addition, your build posts take up considerably more space than many other posts in the thread (unlike others, they come close to the character cap). In general it would just be a lot easier to process if you used an external host - it might not be absolutely necessary, but posting it elsewhere is OPTIMAL for delivering feedback. And you wouldn't want to be suboptimal, would you?

>>51973461
>posting it elsewhere is OPTIMAL for delivering feedback. And you wouldn't want to be suboptimal, would you?

rekt

I LIKE this new dev

>>51973411
Touhoufriend, what's your favorite build that you've completed a campaign with? Can you please post it for me in a pastebin?

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>>51973421
>>51973426

I fail to see the issue when the posts in question can simply be scrolled past, and when post count is not a concern.

>>51973461

>Pastebin makes your feedback easier to find and parse
This is not the case, because then they cannot be searched through using the archive boards' search functions.

>as 4chan's format does not allow us to find or save your posts
This is what the archive boards are for.

>your build posts take up considerably more space than many other posts in the thread
This is not a concern when new threads are created on a constant basis.

I am a brand new DM that has played in a single, very short campaign a few years back that amounted to approximately 5 sessions/10 hours of Pathfinder.

My table will be another guy that played in that session with me (he also has no further dice rolling experience), a completely new guy that's played in a handful FLGS community nights over the last decade, and a fairly experienced player from several systems.

I'm looking at Pathfinder Modules for something "easy" to run for all involved. Am I on the right track here? I've got a ton of PDFs from a corner of the internet, in particular it looks like "PZO9508 U2 - Hangman's Noose" would be fun for this group.

What do I need to provide to my players? Assuming same corner of the internet has everything I need, what "books" do they need to play this? Do they really need the big honkin' "PZO1111 Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting" or is that more of a DM-only resource?

Thanks in advance. I hail from other parts of 4chan but you folks seem somewhat not awful.

>>51973461
No no, you have to give it mechanical benefits, not just say it's suboptimal.

Say you weight things in pastebins 1.2 as much as you can review it more easily afterwards and thus take it into account during revisions.

watch as 2hu asks why this is allowed

>>51973506
You are a parody of a human being.

>>51973506
You selfish motherfucker.
Forget your builds, this shit is why you never get in any games.

>>51973506
4chan's search function is more difficult for Forrestfire Studios' writers to use than Pastebin. Among other things, there's a flood of useless information with any given search tag which we have to filter out.

>>51973559
Ironically, 2hu putting on a tripcode would solve that problem, but we can't have that, could we?

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>>51973448
>that red dot
What's it mean Harry? What's it all mean?

>>51973461
While this is not useful in getting 2Hu to use pastebin, this may be a useful tool:
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/
Has records of several years of 4chan and includes a search function. You can find all avowed mentions, or search for users etc. Surprisingly robust search engine.

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>>51973559

This is why I use either of these archive boards instead:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/

>>51973587
It is! But alongside her posts, we also find people comparing their favorite trash waifus and being sad about Aether Channel nerfs. Sorting through those takes a while.

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>>51973506
Just end yourself.

>>51973599
You know what would make your shit easier to find? If you used a unique name and trip when posting them. You know what that would also do? Make it easier for people who want to ignore you to do so.

>>51973522
>What do I need to provide to my players?
The core book, and a link to d20pfsrd.com. That's it. You also need to walk them through a few things like combat, spellcasting, levelling up.

Anything else is setting info which you should tell them directly.

>>51973599
Maybe add some sort of easily-searcheable, unique posting signature to your posts, to make them optimally-searcheable.

Or get a tripcode!

>>51973623
But anon, those extra steps are unoptimal! You can't just sacrifice optimization for the sake of not being an obnoxious asshole! It needs to have a statistical benefit!

>>51973285
>>51973621
Keep making Avowed awesome! Really enjoying it as both a breath of new ideas and a throwback to my old favorite warlock class.

>>51973633
OK, cool. I knew enough to not give them the Hangman's Noose book, but wasn't sure about the Campaign Setting.

Can the Modules be played with just d20pfsrd.com stuff? I have a good mobile app from the last time I played that would make things a cinch at the table.

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So to satisfy my own curiosity, I must ask an important question. Two, actually. First, What ways are there to ignore the dex requirement on TWF? I know there are ways to use Str or Int instead, but are there ways to ignore it if I'm basing my attack/damage off of Con? Second, can a Steelfist Commando get by WITHOUT needing to have TWF at all?

>>51973461
>That said, we'll be updating the wings customization to make your companion's fly speed from the Take Flight clause and Ascension class feature extraordinary and undispellable to better fit the fantasy and stop your gryphon partner from losing the ability to fly in a dead magic zone
Well, I suppose that's as much as one could ask for. No, actually, thank you for doing that, that does a lot for reconciling things.

I wish I could convince you to do... something about how large size is an effective net downgrade without the strength bonus.

I also wish your attitude towards sizes larger than Large wasn't "Why do you need that?". The answer to that question is because HUGE DRAGONS and HUGE CTHULHU MONSTERS are COOL and FLAVORFUL; Dragons and Shoggoths should be BIGGER than Horses, even if they're weakened by ~becoming one with senpai~

Also, will there be an option introduced to reduce the size of Fae Companions to Tiny from Small?

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>>51973441
Awesome. This is all stuff I was thinking of doing. Starting the players off at a much lower level as soldiers in a war, and then going on to use their veteran status to get involved in politics or whatever else they desire.

>>51973582
Masks are dehumanizing. Think of it as replacing your humanity and identity with a symbol.

>>51973621
Quick question. I don't see any conflict but wanted to be sure, Betrothed can stack with Tinker right?

>>51973710
>Can the Modules be played with just d20pfsrd.com stuff?
Absolutely. The players may miss the campaign traits and may need to be told "no 3pp stuff or stuff I say no to" But other than that it's alll you need.

Some 3PP (third party products) are good so consider allowing some if familiar with it.

>>51972709
Yes. It's that one trait from the base package that gives a disguise bonus.

>>51972786
you know, that's a little unfair to Aisha who had that shtick going on back in Dragon1

Just saying

>>51973773
Aisha's reposted in Dragons 2, soooo...

>>51973720
>ignore the Dex requirement
Get the ranger's combat style somehow, either through actual ranger levels or slayer or some shit.

>Steelfist Commando without TWF
Dip Monk or Sacred Fist or something else with a flurry.

>Use Str or Int instead
Dunno about that.

>>51973781
Yes, which is why she was lumped in with the other transformers in dragon2, but to accuse her of just pandering to SE's current preference is wrong.

>>51973773
True, but being the original that people are ripping off doesn't exclude her from the category.

>>51973746
Senjou Youjo is also pretty good if you're going full napoleonic. Just remember that flying benefits ranged folks a lot better and invisible wildshaped druids calling lightning from 400 feet away are terrifying things.

>>51973772
I must be dumb because I just cannot wrap my head around the Shifter and the absolutely dizzying array of options that Alteration grants. It makes my head hurt :<

>>51973802
Huh? I wasn't, I was just saying that she's gotten another shot.

If avowed ends up "too powerful 3pp" that gets banned by most GMs I'm going to be so mad at you guys.

>>51973832
the post originally being referenced was saying that

>>51973807
>make trap
>find out after that it's the DM's magical realm
>other traps and shotas show up
>somehow the original trap is also pandering
See how little sense that makes?

>>51973698
Thank you! We'll do our best to keep that up.

>>51973737
We'll consider removing the size penalty to AC and armor class to make it more of a strict upgrade. That said, we absolutely do want you to be able to get something BIG when you want it to be - all of the customizations are intended to be fluff choices backed up by mechanics, and 'really big' is an absolutely fair fluff choice. Which we'll work on. There might be some larger tradeoffs (no pun intended) for you to have a Huge companion at level one, though!

Also oh jeez did we really not include an option to make your companions Tiny or smaller
we're sorry
we'll get right on that

>>51973874
I meant just in the general sense of "transforming into hero mode". Not pandering to magical realm.

>>51973874
Oh, I misread it then!

I thought they were saying 'it's not fair that SE suddenly wants a bunch of beefcakes now when he passed Aisha over before'.

>>51973341
Hey Forrest nothing else to add, just saying hi

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>>51972859

>((0.95 * 35) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 63.5)) * 2 = 72.5325

It seems I had committed an error here. This should actually be:

((0.95 * 35) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 35)) * 2 = 69.825

This is still well enough to kill a CR 6.

>>51973927
>It seems I had committed an error here
You've committed an error by not using a tripcode.

>>51973891
Ah, yeah, I'm not saying dragon should be YUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE at level one at all. That's what I was talking about when I said level locking some things earlier.

>people won't even talk about your Dragongame application

Should I be worried?

>>51973829
I'd give you a hand over IRC, but I am workbound for like four more hours.

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>>51973976
We're in the same boat. It just means neither of us are getting in.

>>51973976
Nah, people only talk about characters that their players keep spamming.

>>51973976
It hurts your chances for sure, but there's always hope.

>>51973976

Nah. Just enjoy yourself.

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>>51973891

I will keep this to a single post, then.

Level: 7th
Race: Tiefling (Small size, prehensile tail, scaled skin, underworld guide)
Class: Avowed (any pact will do)

Key Ability Score: Dexterity 26 = base 18 + racial 2 + level advancement 2 + enhancement 4

Key Equipment: Belt of incredible dexterity +4 (16,000 gp)

Traits:
Combat: Reactionary
Race: Reborn (maenad)
Social: Student of Philosophy

Feats:
1st-level: Overcharge Modulation
Avowed 2: Point Blank Shot
3rd-level: Merciful Pulse
5th-level: Precise Shot
7th-level: Steel's Betrayal

Shapes: Aether barrage ×4, one other shape depending on pact

Least Clauses: Dusk pulse, any three other least clauses
Lesser Clauses: Any three lesser clauses

Initiative:
7 Dexterity modifier
+2 underworld guide
+2 Reactionary
Total: +12

Aether Barrage Attacks:
1 attack from BAB
1 attack from aether barrage
Total Attacks: 2

Range: 100 feet + 90 feet from caster level = 190 feet

Aether Barrage Attack Bonus:
5 BAB
+8 Dexterity modifier
+1 Small size
-4 Steel's Betrayal
Total: +10/+10, targets touch AC, ignores wind walls

Aether Barrage Damage:
5d8 aether pulse with Merciful Pulse
+2d8 Overcharge Modulation
+7 Dexterity modifier
+3 maenad FCB
+8 Steel's Betrayal
Total: 7d8+18 (average 49.5), ignores damage reduction, can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, does not actually have to go through spell resistance due to Overcharge Modulation

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3

DPR against touch AC 12:
((0.95 * 49.5) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 49.5)) * 2 = 98.7525, kills a CR 8

None of this takes any prep time or resource expenditures at all, and the avowed still has an impressive array of noncombat utility.

The question now, I suppose, is whether or not a 7th-level barbarian or fighter can keep up in the raw offense department against a CR 8. (They absolutely, positively cannot keep up in the noncombat utility department, but such is life in tier 4.) Can they do so well?

>>51973864
A jack-of-all-trades type class with potential to become SAD to the extreme? Even if it's not actually overpowered, it's the kind of thing that's going to illicit a knee-jerk ban in most games outside of /pfg/.

>>51973769
I won't be familiar with anything, but I trust the experienced player to not be a shithead about this.

Thanks for the replies!

>>51974033
GET
A
TRIPCODE

>>51973997
What's your IRC tag?

>>51973976
Probably not. I think most /pfg/ groups end up with like, one popular app a lot of people like, maybe two apps that see memes, and then three functional apps not worth mentioning in thread.

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>>51974051
settle down

>>51973793
Can Steelfist really not get by without having TWF? I mean, I can still TAKE it, I'll just have to make sacrifices here and there and won't get to use the later feats in the chain without having a dual stat belt, which kinda sucks. Ah well, can't have everything done perfectly, I suppose.

>>51974075
Actually you're supposed to use tripcodes so we can filter you.

also so that butt ragers can whine about one other thing.

>>51974033
Can you see what sort of effectiveness a debuffer avowed would be like?

Also, a utility first optimised avowed?

>>51974064
I'm the Parrot.

To be completely fair.

i said jack shit about wanting beefcakes. I said i'd "probably" pick more male characters this go around.

The 5 burly dudes and a cute little girl was a standard /pfg/ meme. I'm not opposed to it, i'm just staying its not the official stance.

>>51974042
Hey one more thing... is Adventure Path maybe more like what I'm looking for here? Maybe I'm wrong, Module is more of a "one shot"?

>>51974113
Hey man. Any ruling on the Master Familiar and refluffing a raven/parrot/thrush/owl as a pseudodragon?

>>51974106
Dope, thanks

>>51974113
>i said jack shit about wanting beefcakes.

I've been saying this and yet everybody seems to think LMAO TEAM HUSBAND!!! is canon

>>51974114
Adventure Paths are full pre-built campaigns. Modules are single missions. You can slot them in to an existing campaign, or build a character for that single module.

>>51974138

sounds dope, go for it.