Which ship's crew has the best uniforms?

>>51959315

Galactic Empire officer's uniforms are pretty swag 2bh

>>51959321
You can't beat that sick future Nazi look.

>>51959315
>wh40k designers/writers have no concept of scale and their ships are actually designed to be 1/100 of their listed sizes.

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>>51959315
Once again, skipping to the end, since this will eventually happen sooner or later.

>>51959315
Overall? Probably the star destroyer's crew.
Some of the Mars Battlecruiser's officers might have better ones, but the rest of their crew uniforms are shit.

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>>51959406
>Their faces when they realize the ship four times their size and probably ten times their mass has FTL capabilities
That would be moral breaking shit right there, imagine seeing that pop in front of your vessel?

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>>51959315
Imperium officers

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>>51959406
>this entire fucking cap

i was there for that thread, and the conclusion was that this anon was talking out of his ass.

>>51959347
This is not news.

>>51959315
>GW cannot into scale

>those poorly designed flutings / statuary really make the ship look designed by a HighSchool freshman
>ships visually scaled to about 500-1500 meters
>they say it's fuck huge.

>see 1st statement

I liked the uniforms from Babylon Five, specifically the ones that Delenn gave to the command staff.

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>>51959625
It's actually not as large and probably not as massive as a Borg Cube. And of course it's literally forgettable next to some of the stuff the Empire has made, like the Executor...or the Death Star.

>>51959697
I too was there for that thread, and that was not the conclusion at all. Maybe a third of the people at best concluded that.

At some point, 40Kfags need to admit that their setting isn't as end-all be-all as they think it is. It loses to Carmen Sandiego, for Chrissake.

>>51960146
im not saying that 40k is the end all be all, but the mass assumtion without stating the reasons why is my gripe with it.

>>51959315
Depends on the regiment within the ship. And who runs the ship.
Cause you know, Mechanicus and Vostroyan stuff totes wins.
Galactic Empire is also cool though.
Star Trek....yeah I'll be honest their uniforms suck.

Dominion-war era DS9 uniforms pls

>>51960146
>At some point, 40Kfags need to admit that their setting isn't as end-all be-all as they think it is. It loses to Carmen Sandiego, for Chrissake.
Explain

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>>51960548
Carmen Sandiego - or rather, technically, one of her minions, but using a device she herself could have easily operated, and regardless still demonstrates that she understands proper networking - once stole the Milky Way Galaxy.

As in, the entire galaxy that 40K takes place in, and everything in it. Just removed it from space/time. Sucked it up and went on her merry way. And did it inside of about five seconds, too, which means she moved the entire mass of the Milky Way at faster-than-light speeds, without harming anything in it, since the whole thing was put right back as it was less than 30 minutes later.

So in about ten seconds Carmen Sandiego accomplished something that four Chaos gods haven't been able to do in 40,000+ years.

Other acts of major theft include all the salt in the Dead Sea (indicating incredible precision if she wants), the BEST coffee (as in, the objectively best coffee, something that should be a subjective opinion), the steps to the tango (a nearly abstract concept), the Mason-Dixon Line (an actual abstract, geographical, and defunct concept), tai chi (an abstract concept) and the Portuguese language (as in, no one, anywhere, could read, write, or speak Portuguese).

Thanks to her chronoskimmer, she also has access to casual, accurate time travel. This perhaps explains something else: as soon as Carmen wants something, she has it. The challenge is almost inevitably about getting BACK what she stole, not stopping her - because, barring a few select circumstances, it's impossible.

Finally, above and beyond any of this, Carmen is explicitly half-assing everything she does. She deliberately leaves clues for people to find and actually enjoys the challenge of being chased. And it's not like any jail cell has ever been able to hold her for more than a week, tops.

The idea of a Carmen Sandiego who was actually trying to win? That's terrifying.

>Where in the world did all the oxygen go?

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>>51961550
Basically, and in sum, Carmen Sandiego operates on a level of bullshit powers hitherto unseen in Warhammer 40K. Nothing in 40K is playing on the same field as her. I'd liken it to chess verses checkers, but when you can casually shatter the laws of space/time and steal an entire Galaxy if you want, it's more like the 40K bozos are playing rock-paper-scissors while Carmen is, I dunno, doing a seven-on-one StarCraft match against the seven best Korean players in the world and WINNING. That's an inkling of the gap between the two.

To challenge Carmen Sandiego, particularly a Carmen who is taking things seriously, you need to be playing on the same field as Daleks and Time Lords, which it is WELL established that nothing in 40K is even remotely doing.

GE has the best uniforms. Federation's looks too generic and Imperium one is just an overdesigned shit, just like 40k in general.

>>51959315
For men, the Galactic Empire. Can't be beat.

For women, Starfleet. For reasons of tightness.

>>51960146
The weapons of the imperium are actually punching vastly below their weight-class. Much of their hugeness is due to the lack of automation. Many technologies have been lost.

All three ships in the scenario are capable of depopulating a planet or wiping out some offending asteroids in seconds.

>>51959347
The whole point of 40k is turning everything up to 11.

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>>51961550
>>51961630
I love these. I've never watched Carmen Santiago, but I feel like doing so would ruin the magic.

>>51961799
>All three ships in the scenario are capable of depopulating a planet or wiping out some offending asteroids in seconds.

Incorrect. 40k has exterminatus weapons for a reason, and that reason is their ships (and fleets) can't hack it on their own.

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>>51959315
they jobbed hard, but i though the old salad bowl looked really cool

>>51961550
brb watching this shit

>>51961897
Actually, they can do it the same way without those weapons as the other two (particularly using lance strikes). I did say depopulate, not crack it outright, as well.

The bigger reason for exterminatus weapons is that if the planet has proper defenses, one ship trying to lance it is going to get murdered. That's why they usually try to have a fleet do it if they don't have cyclonic torpedoes or the such.

Similarly, "base delta zero" is going to take a few days of turbolaser work if there's just the one ISD.

But they all CAN do it.

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>>51959315
I'll just leave this here

>>51959406

Bullshit detector pinging. Good lord, Mars class has 2 lance batteries. You can't dodge those. It will take one salvo to destroy enterprise and 2 for the imperial-class SD.

And then there is the Nova cannon...

>>51962273
Arent Ark Mechanicus ships even more OP than imperial Navy vessels?;

>>51962327

Yep. They are full of applied plebhotinum and handwavium due to carrying all kinds of archeotech onboard.

Unfortunately, last time someone asked "What does this button do?" they fucked up a star system so...

>>51962367
But handwavium and surviving impossible odds due bullshit asspulls is star treks strength

>>51962421
a lot of it is asspulls ofcourse, but the sentiment is clear
they understand their technology so well, and their technicians so well trained and experienced, that they can use their technology in incredible ways not originally intended by the original designer

a star trek vessel in 40k land will be annihilated since in that universe fire power is all that matters, but in star trek land the 40k vessel will find itself being run circles by a clever and unconventional stratagem that they were completely unprepared for

>>51962421
Both trek and ad mech also constantly forget tech and devices that they have used before.

>>51959406
ooook. Yea, that one is totally fair.

Lets ignore the following: Imperal point defences, imperial fighters. Both of which can atleast occasionally put up a fight against Eldar strike craft, and should be more then a match for any souped up TIE's.

And the Nova cannon...Yes, very fair. "The Mars looses if we discount the main weapon and strike craft"

I'll not even go into how silly the whole "no sensor tech" is, but theres no need to.

If the writer wants to remain consistent the star destroyer cant use turbolasers or TIE's, only ion cannons. etc

>>51962273
Nova Cannons are roughly equivalent to a Gravimetric Torpedo. Not quite up to the level of just firing a trilithium resin warhead into the nearby star, though.

The lances are actually surprisingly weak. The phaser arrays on the Enterprise (in fact the original one could take out cities with them) can be set for orbital bombardment, doing damage in large radii the same way lance strikes do. They're also adjustable and containable enough to directly drill into a specific location or provide decently accurate orbital support. And that's the big "fires all over the damn place" array strips at that. A ship in Star Trek you have to keep in mind needs fusion reactors to keep itself together at anything above maneuvering thrusters; they're never NOT protected by shields, and the amount of energy that even the structural integrity forcefields (this is also why they're given in % the same as the other shields) can dissipate make direct nuclear impacts something a galaxy-class shrugs off quite harmlessly.

Likewise, Turbolasers are in the megaton range, and those are rapid-firing multibarrel turrets. And we all know the amount of energy those hyperdrives can be rigged to produce; a giant drive core was what was used to feed a certain superlaser that made a certain planet's gravitational binding energy fall apart like a pin in a balloon.

Actually the biggest advantage the Imperium ships have is that the ONE realistic thing they have going for them is their weapons being capable of firing at reasonable ranges for fucking space.

Do not be surprised if the response to a volley of a lance battery was "shields are holding" from Worf, or "we can't take too many of those if reinforcements arrive, return fire" from an ISD.

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>>51962169
So the moral is that Bungie/343 can't into scale.

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>>51959315
late season bab5 desu
alternatively: centauri

>>51962478
TIE's are hard-fucked due to how flimsy they are, but the firepower they send downrange in the few seconds before they disappear (and disappear they will) would be surprisingly devastating to the rather unimpressive materials used by the soon-to-be-space-hulk. They'd do very well against imperial fighters actually, but point-defenses will shred them.

Shielded TIE's are a different story. /D or the legendary "Missile Boat" can both turn a run on an imperial capital something more akin to a good Shmup. The latter in particular had a horrifying tendency to chew up groups of capital vessels like an X-Wing shreds through TIE Bombers.

The worst sensors of the bunch are the star wars ships, though. They're damn near running on "Eyeball MkII" half of the time. The most likely thing to happen is for an entire scenario to happen just out of range for them to ever even notice shit happened.

>>51959406
That was pretty good, did not become that butthurt. But a imperial ship and if were going by the pic its a battlecruiser, it certainly has lances and or torpedos. And where are the last ditch effort raming atempts, the boarding actions fueld by zeal or the martyr death

>>51962494
Aight, lesse. I dont have a clue about what a gravimetic torpedo is, guessing star trek.

I highly doubt that you are correct, but I dont know.

What I do know is Imperial Firepower.
And Lances, while generally not able to break cruiser+ grade void shield arrays (except on specialized ships like gothics/Executers) on their own. Are more then capable of straining/breaking them, just not more. Again, on their own in limited numbers.

So are you telling me that the Enterprise here have more powerfull shields then a massively oversized ship of the line (ish, battlecruisers are support pieces) from a universe where firepower is all that matters.

Nay sir, nay I say! I would happily agree that they could probably take A lance shot. Even frigates can handle that.

a second consecutive hit tho, that would not be pretty. Unless you like explosions. Then it would be.

>>51962002
>But they all CAN do it.
Bullshit. I don't care what some BL fanfiction says.

>>51962593
We could depopulate a planet now, if we really tried. The biggest issue for an imperial ship would be time and ammunition.

>>51962551
I would actually agree that TIE's might do well against imperial Fury's. The Fury is more of a gunboat frigate by Startreck/star wars standards then a fighter, because their job is to intercept bombers and assault boats. Both of which tend to be fairly large and armored, because 40k fighters are incapable to effectively harming a 40k vessel.

So yea, I can definetly see the TIE's doing well, still loosing a number of their own, but doing well against Fury's.

I doubt they would do great against the ships tho, the closest comparison I can offer is that in BFG manta 'squadrons' are bombers.

And those are some fairly big Titan-hunters.

>>51962593
With a ship that size they could depopulate a planet by tossing their garbage at it in sufficiently large bin bags.

>>51962611
Cities have probably been wiped out by the bits that fall off those, Imperial maintenance being what it is.

>>51962685
Or just, you know. Speed up and ram the planet.

I'm sure a large, heavy, thing going very fast would do something.

>>51962633
Not to mention TIE's are insanely small compared to even the smallest imperial fighter. From the Lightning pilot's point of view, a one-man escape pod is fucking giving them a run for their money. What the fuck.

>>51962593
Exterminatus can, by official materials, be done through simple orbital bombardment. It just takes a lot longer, while the dedicated superweapons for the job are done in minutes especially if the planet had an atmosphere.

>>51962709
Indeed, but ofcourse this does raise a scary idea.

we know TIE's and the like are capable of damaging/destroying SW vessels.

How much of a threat would Fury's be?

As for the Lightning, yea, no thats not really wierd. the Imperium likes guns, rather then missiles, on its fighters. Keeps them from having to be re-supplied to often.

I can imagen it being fairly hard to line up a shot for the Lightnings lascannons against something like that.

>>51962709
Not to mention so fragile that they risk exploding if the pilot sneezes too hard.

>>51959347
I've always taken this as being in-universe. The Administratum has an official figure of the size of the ships somewhere, but more often what gets put down is word of mouth or conjecture from the writer because looking up the actual stats would be tremendously difficult.

>>51962753
oh absolutely. One thing about not-40k is that the smaller vessels scale a lot better vs the bigger ones. Even shuttles in star-trek eventually started carrying torpedoes. Should they survive long enough, the imperials would come to learn that their bombers (a regular fighter lascannon probably isn't enough vs the shields, but melta warheads on bombers will cause substantial damage) can actually do real - not just annoyance - damage on those, unlike what they do to other 40k vessels.

>>51962776
luckily there's no air in space!

>>51962793
probably caused by the religious aspect, at least in-universe.

>"This cruiser's vatican-city (because they basically fucking have that on every fucking ship, no wonder it's so huge) is IMMEASURABLY IMMENSE!"
>"couldn't we just measure i~"
>*BLAM*
>"IMMEASURABLY IMMENSE!"

>>51962981
>luckily there's no air in space!
Or in the inside of a TIE fighter, as it happens, they don't even have a pressurized hull. Have to wear a spacesuit in it.

It's basically just some guns, some engines and a seat in the middle.

>>51959315
40K has no fixed uniforms.
every segmentum has their own line and in those there are variances as well, also, there are very few depictions;
So SW kind of wins by default, because star trek uniforms are pyjamas.

>>51962993
That religious aspect is not applicable, because the ships are made by another religion that is anal about accurate measurement, and not knowing or misrepresenting them would be a sin in their eyes.

>>51963400
It's equally as anal about making sure no one else knows the measurements.

>>51962593
> I don't care what some BL fanfiction says.
But you care what the other official respective "fanfiction" says? Any measuremend from SW or ST is also merely something someone, someday, determined willy nilly, nothing more.

You are basically crying "LIAR! LIAR!" in a contest where everyone merely describes how large their dick is without any proof.

>>51963424
Not really, their secrecy pertains to how it works, not how it looks or how big it is, that is some strange conjecture on your part.
They dont really use the stuff they build themselves, and the administratum is equally strict concerning measurements of any kind.

>>51961799
>All three ships in the scenario are capable of depopulating a planet or wiping out some offending asteroids in seconds.
No they aren't. Star Destroyers could be destroyed by a couple modern nuclear weapons, and consider the destruction of a city to be remarkable.

The Incredible Cross Section was never canon as it conflicted with movie canon.

>>51962593
>Bullshit. I don't care what some BL fanfiction says.
Your opinion on what is or isn't canon doesn't matter, and by refusing to acknowledge it you are guilty of a non dichotomy and are thus inherently disingenuous. Canon is decided only by the owner of the intellectual property or whomever he or she employees to manage it.

Come back when you can use logic.

>>51963670
*employs. For some reason I wrote employees.

>>51963659
I don't even know what the fuck books you're talking about.

Just look at the FUCKING. MOVIES. A star destroyer vaporizes asteroids with those turrets. That places the impact of each bolt in the low kiloton range in order to do what they do to those rocks.

Its fucking laser cannons literally dispense as much energy as fission nukes.

You're going to tell me that the fucking movies don't show them literally "wiping out some offending asteroids in seconds"?

I guess Empire Strikes Back isn't canon.

>>51964041
Yes, kilotons. Which is no-where near the firepower needed to do jack shit to a planet. And then there's the question of the composition of the asteroid, as there is a world of difference between vaporizing a chunk of solid iron and a chunk of what is largely ice. And its size too. In the context of 40K and Trek firepower however, this is incredibly pathetic.

>>51964190
Depopulating and 'popping' are EXTREMELY different levels of required yield.

Something that can effectively at least 30 (more if it's less "sideways" due to the ship's triangular shape being for that reason) autofire hiroshimas is going to clean a surface up in hours.

It may have difficulty dealing with UFP shield generators, certainly, but that won't stop it from being WAY better at Exterminatus than a squadron of Imperium Battlecruisers if they don't at least pull out a virus-bomb and lance the atmosphere after it's done.

>>51959693
Can't argue with six inch collars.

>>51959406
The thing that bugs me the most is that the other two crews are allowed to work together making this 2 vs 1.

Also we don't even know what kind of powers and speed could Imperium ship display inside a serene warp. May be that his FTL capabilities would be faster and more precise than Enterprise.

>>51962273
>You can't dodge those

It's sublight. Not only can the Enterprise dodge it, it can do so with ease, since not only is the Enterprise capable of casual FTL movement, it is also capable of casual FTL detection with its sensors. Combat in Star Trek regularly takes place at superluminal velocities.

> It will take one salvo to destroy enterprise

I actually crunched the numbers once on how powerful the Enterprise's navigational deflectors must be in order to withstand being hit by molecules and particles when traveling at warp 9. I forget the precise number, but I do recall that it was only a little less than an order of magnitude smaller than what was needed to survive a blast from the Death Star.

And again, those were the navigational deflectors, not the actual combat shields.

However, I didn't take that into account for what I wrote, because - among other things - there's no need. The Imperium lacks the means to fight at FTL. The Federation does not. Ergo, it doesn't matter how powerful the Imperium's weapons are, because you cannot beat what you cannot hit.

>>51962445
>a star trek vessel in 40k land will be annihilated since in that universe fire power is all that matters

I also vastly and intentionally under-sold the power of phasers. Let's not forget the canon fact that the Enterprise-D is capable of reducing a planet's crust to molten slag in a matter of just a few hours if her captain is so inclined. For that matter the Enterprise NCC-1701 was capable of the same.

And no, firepower is NOT all that matters. Because it doesn't matter how strong you are if you can't hit your opponent.

40K is Future Trunks and Star Trek is Perfect Cell.

>"Oh look at me! I'm 40K! Please love me, God-Emperor!"

>>51962478
>Imperal point defences

Mean nothing when your opponent is FTL-capable

>imperial fighters

Mean nothing when your opponent is FTL capable.

>>51962552
>And where are the last ditch effort raming atempts

WHY DO 40K FAGS NOT UNDERSTAND THAT NOTHING IN THEIR STUPID UNIVERSE CAN HIT SOMETHING CAPABLE OF BOTH MOVEMENT AND DETECTION AT FASTER THAN LIGHT SPEEDS?!

>>51962776
That's old EU canon. Current canon actually places TIE/ln fighters as high-performance space superiority fighters that have always been the near-equal of an X-wing. They lack shields, but their maneuverability makes up for it. A TIE/ln fighter can literally fly circles around an X-wing.

>>51965199
I covered that in "Why the Imperium Lost".

The ultimate reason the Imperium loses a three-way match is because of Imperial Dogma essentially making cooperation impossible, something that Empire dogma does not contain (The Empire is quite willing to work with outsiders to accomplish its goal, as long as it does so from a position of strength), and Federation dogma has "working together" and "creative solutions" as is core tenet.

Sure, you'll get the occasional Imperium captain who might be different, but they would far and away be the exception, not the rule, and would indeed be skirting heresy.

The Imperium loses not because of the technology gap - it's better in some areas and worse in others, as is expected. Rather, it loses because of the psychological one. It's "hard" assets are good, but its "soft" assets leave much to be desired.

>May be that his FTL capabilities would be faster and more precise than Enterprise.

WH4K strategic FTL (ability to move from one system to the next) is faster than the Federation's strategic FTL, by a large degree: it's possible to cross the Milky Way in a matter of a few years at most, something that takes the Star Trek FTL system decades or more.

However, Imperium FTL involves entering an "other" space from which they cannot affect "real" space. Star Trek FTL, by contrast, simply involves wrapping "subspace" around a vessel, something which nevertheless leaves it capable of interacting with "real" space.

Or in other words, Star Trek's tactical FTL is better than 40K's tactical FTL.

>>51960079
ARMY OF LIGHT
R
M
Y

O
F

L
I
G
H
T

>>51962522
>centauri
mah nigga
make the centauri republic great again

>>51964701
I always imagined that space ship uniforms would have big collars. Like it evolved that way. Most likely the service uniform in the early days would double as an emergency EVA suit and has a built in collar to attach the helmet to. In time, when such necessities would no longer be necessary due to all the environmental protections and such. The collar would become more ceremonial, an allusion to the past iterations of the service uniform.

>>51965510
>>Imperal point defences
>Mean nothing when your opponent is FTL-capable
Since when are TIEs FTL capable? They don't have an FTL drive in the OT, which is why the empire can deploy so many of them

>>51959347
Well yeah no shit. A 40k ship turning would tear itself apart due to momentum and mass. They'd have to move and then slow down, turn slowly and then move again.

>>51960146


Dude

Carmen is Nocturnal, she almost stole creation but she hesitated at the last moment, she is the true god of Luck

>>51962578
>from a universe where firepower is all that matters
See, the thing is that the actual numbers on 40k hardware aren't very impressive. Like, the given armour thickness of a Baneblade is less than that of modern tanks.

>>51965821
Did you not actually read what I posted? The entire scenario involves the Empire and the Federation teaming up and retrofitting TIE/lns with warp drives cannibalized from Federation photon torpedoes. The warp drives then allow the TIE/lns to have enough power to mount turbolasers, which have a damage output sufficient enough to pierce Imperium hulls; and have Star Trek-level shields, albeit weak ones, and I arbitrarily limited the TIE/lns to Warp 4 at maximum, and probably a "cruising" speed of Warp 2.

Warp 2 in the TNG scale is about 10 times the speed of light.

>But how can they do this, reconcile two different technologies like this

Federation engineers are repeatedly mentioned time and again as being "wizards" with technology, able to accomplish anything they put their minds to given enough time. The scenario gave them months of time since Star Wars FTL is better than even the Imperium's (they can cross an entire galaxy in a matter of, like, 3 days max), so all they have to do is tow the Enterprise with them to literaly anywhere in the Galaxy. The Imperium lacks galaxy-spanning, FTL detection technology.

Also, on the Imperial side of things, they are the heirs of high-end FTL and other technology that is more than 25,000 years old. Their technology is so easy to use that a penniless smuggler can maintain the fastest ship in the Galaxy. So the Empire can be presumed to be, bare minimum, as competent and understanding of their own technology as the crew of a US naval vessel is with US naval technology. Which is more than enough for the wizardry of Starfleet to kick in and fill in any potential gaps.

Again, though, this is only one possibility. The fundamental reason why the Empire and the Federation beats the Imperium isn't the technology. It's the fact that the former two are perfectly willing to work with outsiders, while the Imperium in almost all circumstances considers it heretical.

>>51965940
I presume that baneblades are made out of some fantastical future material, however. Surely it's not just steel or titanium or something.

>>51965965
I wouldn't dismiss that out of hand. A lot of their stuff apparently still runs on gasoline.

>>51966070

This. This is the Imperium we're talking about. Until it's specifically and explicitly spelled out that "conventional steel" refers to some wonder alloy, I'm assuming its the same shit that goes in my car.

>>51965952
>>51965952
>while the Imperium in almost all circumstances considers it heretical.
And yet, there are plenty of examples of imperial forces cooperating with other factions. The Tau Empire and the Imperium shared intel and information when Hive Fleet Leviathan hit, the war for the gothic sector hinged on Imperial/Eldar cooperation, and the Beast Arises series has isolated imperial vessels collaborating with Chaos vessels. The Imperial vessel would probably be hesitant collaborating with Star Fleet, due to the prevalence of Aliens (But humans seem to be the ones calling the shots, which could make it acceptable) and would probably be perfectly fine working with the Star Destroyer, given it's all-human crew.

>>51966101
could also be another example of Sci Fi Writers Have No Fucking Clue, which hits just about everyone ever in this scenario

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>>51959315
galactic empire uniforms are quite nice, but I like the imperial navy's slightly older style more

>>51959406
Phone poster, can't read. If this screen cap is sw or star trek fags thinkng they can compete with 40k, you are sorely mistaken.

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>>51965881
>Carmen
"Ugh! My back is killing me! I knew buying a chair that was on sale at Skeletor's Super Savings was going to be a bad idea. What does a skeleton know about comfort anyway?"

"This just won't do at all. How can I run a criminal empire like V.I.L.E. if my spine feels like it's going to fall out all the time?"

"...Wait, I know! There's a chair that will suit my posterior perfectly...as soon as we steal it! I think I'll bring in...Adeptus Ineptus!"

>Adeptus Ineptus
"Ave et salute, Mistress Carmen! I look forward to devoting the full breadth of my technomantic prowess to your wicked cause!"

>Carmen
"...I have no idea what that means. But no matter! I'm sending you through the time port to Holy Terra in the 30th millennium. There's something very special I want you to steal."

>Adeptus Ineptus
"Veni, vidi, requisisti!"

>Carmen
"Good! ...I think. This info beam will give you all the details. Now get going!"

>>51959315
Everyone knows star wars space nazis look the best. Star trek had the most believable and competent crew, and 40k beats them both at the same time with fire power and attrition.

>>51966112
Yes, but all of these involved incredibly exceptional circumstances against much larger threats.

I see no reason, other than a desire to throw the Imperium a bone that is not backed by their canonical attitudes, to assume that this would be the case in a three-way matchup involving just one ship from each side.

>>51966137
lol no, it is you who are wrong.

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>>51959315
>>51959693
+1 for truth

Pic related, what I'm using as my next Rogue Trader character picture. The character is a former Navy captain.

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>>51966159
"ORDO CHRONOS! Adeptus Ineptus has just stolen something from the past!"

"...and there ain't jack shit we can do about it, because we don't actually have access to time travel!"

"In 28 minutes, history will change forever!"

And that's why Carmen wins.

>>51966188
>it is you who are wrong
nah, it's standard "my setting could beat up your setting because I say so" nonsense

None of the parties involved would immediately fight to the death with other human factions. Most imperial navy duties revolve around finding lost/isolated human colonies that survived the Old Night.

>>51965849
There's as much bullshit space magic crammed into Star Wars and Star Trek technology.

At least most stuff from 40K works on a fairly consistent set of rules, and tries to work its way around even magic in a roughly consistent way. No Midichlorians here.


I imagine having an actual keel (as in a fuck huge chunk of metal running the entire length of the ship) helps with the structural integrity of Imperial vessels as well. Which is also another reason why Imperial vessels are so huge themselves. The outer hull on that battlecruiser is probably 10 metres thick.

>>51966188
You mean apart from "We are cut off with no way back home, no way to repair, and no way to request reinforcements", the exact same scenario that saw Loyalist Space Marines work with Chaos Forces to re-arm and re-fit their vessels? Those seem like pretty extreme circumstances to me.

>>51966188
>>51966320
You're both delusional. 40k is uncontested in this argument. Even if star wars or trek ships can out maneuver imperial ships, they will get boarded by space marines and destroyed. When star wars builds a death star that's a big thing, death stars are standard issue in 40k. Star trek doesn't even have a death star, they stand no chance

>>51966396
>in this argument.
it's not an argument

I'm telling him the whole image is bullshit, with only a loose grasp on the capabilities and dispositions of any of the ships involved.

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>>51959315
i dont think that the crew of an imperial ship has uniforms apart from the bridge staff, hell i doubt they even have clothes the poor bastards.

Why is this even a debate? Shit HOW is this even a debate? Literally no one has hard stats or figures, except for BFG, which will only give us some indications for distances and engagement ranges. And those are useless without some way of figuring out how to translate how long a turn is. As it stands, the only comparisons we can definitely confirm are

A) Star Trek is more maneuverable than Star Wars

and

B) BFG's Typical Engagement range is longer then either by orders of magnitude

beyond that, all is handwavy bullshitium and technobabble and the result will depend entirely on who's writing it, what their opinions and biases are, and the point they want to make.

>>51959406
>The Enterprise
>Easier to destroy than an ISD
stopped reading, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about

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>>51965881
>>51966159
>>51966237

does it means that she walks around in full transparent loincloth during her free time?

if it is, my respect because of the cartoon and the games which i played when i was 4 increased up to eleven!

>>51966347
The scenario also had each of the factions explicitly being told at the start that they don't get to go home until one of them stands triumphant over the other two. The Empire and Imperium both have attitudes that would presume this means that one of them must destroy the other two; the Federation is liable to take a third option, which it did. But given that the Star Destroyer must either ally with the Mars-class to destroy the Galaxy-class and then be able to turn on it; or ally with the Galaxy-class and then be able to turn on it, and given that the Galaxy-class is literally willing to hand out technology that would seem to enable its own later defeat (with Picard gambling that he'll be able to take a third option later), it seems obvious which the Empire would choose.

>>51966396
>they will get boarded by space marines and destroyed.

How. The Imperium lacks FTL anything. They cannot target the Enterprise in any meaningful way, not even with their transporters, presuming that their transporters can even get through the Enterprise's shields, which I don't see any reason why they should be able to.

>Star trek doesn't even have a death star

Weapons in Star Trek that can destroy entire planets at a time (and not merely render them uninhabitable) include but are not limited to:
- The Planet Killer (TOS)
- A space-dwelling lifeform that consumed planets for food (TAS)
- Dr. Timicin's torpedo, which can cause stars to go nova (TNG);
- A bomb consisting of tekasite, trilithium, and protomatter that can destroy a star (DS9)
- Species-8472 bioships (VOY)
- Krenim Temporal Incursion Ship (VOY)
- The Xinti Superweapon (ENT)
- Presumably, V'Ger (Star Trek: The Motion Picture), given enough time
- The trilithium torpedo (Star Trek: Generations)
- Red Matter (Star Trek [2009 reboot])

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>>51959315
Is... this a troll...?
To get people to start fighting over Ship Sizes?

Fucking well done. 10/10

>>51960527
patrician taste. Not only do they look fucking excellent, they look incredibly comfortable too, which is more than can be said for anyone the others mentioned in the thread.

>>51966548
If the enterprise can engage at FTL speeds, why do all of their major engagements take place within visual range at sublight speeds?

>>51966548
For the record, if I had chosen to include weapons that can render planets uninhabitable, the list would have tripled in size and included "all Federation vessels of cruiser size or above" (General Order 24).

It also seems as though it is very easy in Star Trek to destroy STARS. Star Trek: Generations involves trilthium torpedoes, for example, and Deep Space 9 also involved a plot to destroy the star Bajor. And of course there's Dr. Timicin's torpedo.

You will note, I hope, that this means that it requires only torpedo-sized weapons in Star Trek to destroy entire stars at a time.

There is also the Tox Uthat (TNG), which can stop all fusion in a star, rendering it cold and dead. However since that does not result in any planets being physically destroyed - they are merely rendered uninhabitable thanks to them no longer receiving heat - I left it out.

>>51966597
>why do all of their major engagements take place within visual range at sublight speeds?

Viewer convention, although they *don't* all take place within visual range at sublight speeds. "Journey to Babel", for example, featured warp-speed "jousting" with an Orion vessel.

The USS Voyager also fought the USS Equinox at warp speed; as did the NX-01 Enterprise against Duras' bird-of-prey. There are other examples, too, if you really want me to start looking them up.

For the most part, there's usually a contrived reason for ships to be fighting at sublight. For example, in "Yeserday's Enterprise", the 1701-D remained at sublight speeds because it was defending the 1701-C, which could not go to warp.

There's also the fact that while at warp you generally can't make use of phasers - those are light-based to some extent and so are limited to light speed. Phasers are better at battering down shields than photon torpedoes.

>>51966101
Don't they constantly refer to adamantium as the armour material for space marines and space marine vehicles? Surely a baneblade would be armoured the same?

>>51966322
Please, for the life of me, don't try to justify WH40K designs. They are some of the worst, least scientific, and generally ugly designs you can come across.

>>51966548
Really? You actually think FTL will save you from 40k? With the amount of warp fuckery in 40k you think warp space is going to help you get away from them? What happens when the legion of the dammed just manifests on your ships without warning? What happens when your jedi and sith have their minds melted by a 40k psyker? What happens when your trek ships run out of fuel and can't keep going FTL? What happens when you destroy 100 imperial planets and realize that's not even 1% of their total strength?

>>51966672
>There's also the fact that while at warp you generally can't make use of phasers - those are light-based to some extent and so are limited to light speed. Phasers are better at battering down shields than photon torpedoes.
So then their engagement with the Imperial Battlecruiser would be Accelerate to knife fighting distance, drop out, fire phasers, the zoom away?

i see a window here where the Battlecruiser can engage the enterprise, and damage it severely. It wouldn't even need to get lucky to do so.

>>51966731
preposterous, charging into a ship that has as many guns as a borg cube is definitely not going to end badly for a galaxy class

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>>51962327
the arc mechanicus ship Speranza has a timetraveling blackhole cannon controlled by an AI far more capable than any droid or computer i have seen in the other two series, that said i dont think thats standard issue it could be since said AI mind wipes anyone who recognises what it is.

>>51966715
>What happens when your jedi and sith have their minds melted by a 40k psyker?
Why does every 40K player think Psykers and warp are the end all be all to mind powers in Sci-fi?

Jedi are perhaps not the best defense but I find it hard to be scared of mages in a world where even the most proficiency have a chance of just popping their own heads like balloons.

>>51966780
also they only activated it once. That whole section was hilarious though.

>>51959347
Just a symptom of the copying Dune wholesale.

Dune has fuckheug ships? OURS MUST BE BIGGER!

>>51962327
Yeah, particularly the Ark Mechanicus Speranza, which fired a weaponised singularity at an Eldar vessel, which dodged due to prescience hax, so it then rewound time in a localised area to make sure it's weapon would hit.

Basically Ballistic Skill 9001, reroll misses until you hit.

On the other hand, Speranza isn't a normal Ark Mechanicus, it's a DAoT ship it's creators didn't even finish because they were scared of what they'd created.

That said, it would surprise me if the Mechanicus is sitting on other DAoT treasure troves (Speranza has a complete STC database) and just doesn't know about them.

>>51966849
>>51966849
you mean copying everything wholesale. It's the kitchen sink of sci-fi/science fantasy tropes.

>>51966809
It's to remind star wars and star trek that 40k has an answer for everything, plus enough quantity to drown any quality the other two might have over it

>>51966946
>it would surprise me
you mean wouldn't, I assume

They did just recently light an entire section of the galaxy on fire with a torpedo. Exactly how they managed to make empty vacuum burn is a mystery best left unsolved. The fire combined with a warp storm and is now sentient

>>51966710
>implying star trek and star wars don't have universally shitty fucking ship design

>>51966548
>being this mad you typed out all this shit nobody is going to read because star trek is fucking gay

>>51966975
>quantity
Which is the other thing. 40K is limited to: Having never gone past the milky way.
Should I start posting all the settings that have easily left the milky way behind and started colonizing the rest of the universe?

>>51959406
>Imperial cruiser gets an order directly from the reborn Emprah
>Loses

Not fanboying, both Star Trek and Star Wars ships could find many ways to kill 40k ships in most scenarios, but in a situation where the God-Emperor himself has told them to kill to other ships?

They're going to do everything up to and including overloading their plasma reactors to close their the SW/ST ships before detonating their immaterium drive and plunging all three of them into the warp without Gellar fields active if their weapons are ineffective..

It's the fucking God-Emperor giving them a direct order, they'd have Naval armsmen queuing up to be teleported onto the enemy ships even with 99 in 100 odds of being fused to the enemy vessel's superstructure.

40k humans are unparralled fanatics even without direct contact with their god, but if he'd personally given them a task? Neither of the other ships will have encountered anything even remotely close to that degree of insanity.

>>51967165
>first we went to this galaxy and colonized it and then we went to this cluster and colonized it and then we went to this galaxy and blew it up because lulzors

some fucking great story telling right there

>>51966396
40k works on big bulky and slow. Hand phasers turned up all the way can vaporize a man as well as solid rock and would most certainly be able to punch holes in space marine armor. Trek ships don't need to worry about Warhammer ship weapons as their subspace speeds are astounding. While not being able to easily punch through Warhammer ship armor Star Trek marines could commit surgical boarding strikes and plant charges. The Federation of planets has tech they can use. However the Federation isn't designed towards military conflict so their offensive output is limited.Trek technology has the capacity to take on Imperial vessels which makes sense looking at the borg. The "DUDE 40K IS JUST SO MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYTHING FOR THE EMPEROR xD" meme is stale and is spouted by those illiterate on other Universes.

>>51967165
Wrong. Necrons have the entire universe mapped out. And even though the imperium resides solely in the milky way galaxy, they have millions of planets colonized with populations in the hundreds of trillions. The imperium can literally throw 1 billion soldiers at you and billions more em route to back them up. I'm sorry but this is just how it is. If you want to improve the quality of these discussions just leave 40k out of it and debate star trek vs star wars

>>51967367
I know it upsets you that 40k is the superman of Sci fi, but nothing will change that fact so it's best to just exclude them from the argument.

>>51967405
Not an argument fanboy.

>>51967369
>Wrong. Necrons have the entire universe mapped out.
But the Imperium does not. And the assumption that other setting don't have trillions of planets in their own galaxy is pretty presumptuous.

Star Trek of Star Wars don't have that many people obviously, there is all of sci-fi out there, not just three franchises

>>51967419
No argument needs to take place. Just because the flash is faster than superman doesn't mean super still doesn't win

>>51967472
Where's the argument here? I can't find it.

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>>51967367
>Trek ships don't need to worry about Warhammer ship weapons as their subspace speeds are astounding.
Astounding compared to what.

There's no point of comparison here, which is why these fucking fanboy arguments always fall to pieces.

see >>51966449

>>51967470
It would take all of star trek and star wars just to compete with 1 faction from 40k. The largest military conflicts in the history of sw and trek is just another day in the 41st millenium

>>51967500
Astounding compared to 40k.

>>51967525
So where's the evidence, boss.

>>51967491
Goku beats vegeta, there's no point in debating why, it's just common sense

>>51967367
star trek is so much fucking space magic faggotry i don't even call it sci fi

>this roku controller thing can blow up an abrams tank
>warp 9 is a gazillion million times the speed of light and we just magically don't get annihilated hitting dust particles at that speed
>we have a missile the size of a kayak that can blow up a planet

literally the worst kind of power fantasy of the weakling nerd type and the direct and shitty offspring of flying saucer era sci fi

>>51965510
>I actually crunched the numbers once on how powerful the Enterprise's navigational deflectors must be in order to withstand being hit by molecules and particles when traveling at warp 9.

Read up on Alcubierre drive. Ships in warp either do not interact directly with universe around them or interact as if they were moving at sublight speeds.

It's like watching a bunch of Generals gathered in world war one, insisting that another infantry push will surely break through the enemy'e lines

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The Didact's personal flagship was 370+ Kilometers long, with FTL capabilities. Barring specific Forerunner-coded immunity I don't think there's any defense against being digitized, which makes its planet-killing laser that much scarier.

>>51965544
Because they can? They literally have people who can see future.

>>51967536
You're arguing like a 12 year old on the playground, where is the meat to your argument?
>>51967535
Warp speeds just fucking ridiculous and by going faster than the speed of light it renders conventional 40k energy weapons useless
>>51967550
Makes more sense and infinitely less edgy than 40k honestly given exponential gains in technological process. I love 40k don't get me wrong but a lot of the fanboys get all pissy when their bullshit fantasy universe has less bullshit than another bullshit fantasy universe.

>>51967124
Yes. Neither series is anywhere near as bad as 40k.

>>51967171

Indeed. I mean - so many things here that are simply not accounted for. Teleportation attacks, psyker attacks. Tech priests going for LOLhax on the enemy vessel.

I imagine opening communications to the Mars class BC would be the death of the Enterprise by itself. The ArchMagos will pop a fuse at the very sight of such technoheresy and pump it full of scrap code.

>>51967623
Scrap code bombarding only works on a system which allows it. You're telling me that a 40k techpriest running on DOS shitposting could hack into the advanced AI of star wars or star trek? It's like comparing a TI-84 to a supercomputer in terms of complexity.

>>51967618
Yeah but 40k does it on purpose. Joke is on them and they know it.

>Ships
>Ships
>Ships
>Ships
>Ships
>LARGE Ships

Meh. If the federation had less care for other lives I could see them winning.
Jury-rig a small ship. Auto pilot it into the nearest enemy plant or large-scale ship.
Reverse polarize or whatever the engine, destroy the whole plant or ship.

Have them fly in at warp 9 into enemy targets. Yeah the imperium could detect them, but good luck stopping shield-stripping planet-busters that are only 1 km in size.

Federation does have unlimited resources, just keep making a fleet of warp missiles- but that's some fantasy Evil-federation which doesn't exist.

>>51967667

You do know 40k tech is meant to be super advanced, being 38k years in the future right? It just looks crude.

>>51967667

Star trek? Totally. That "advanced" system has only several hundred years of tech progress to it.

a warhammer 40k, has well - about 40k years of tech development behind him. Even if they forgot about 20k and don't know how advances from the other 10k work that still gives him hilarious advantage in digital warfare over trekkies.

>>51967614
>going faster than the speed of light it renders conventional 40k energy weapons useless
except it doesn't, because we know 40k contains faster than light travel and also methods of detection and tracking that do not rely on physical sensors

So it's back to "this side wins because I say so", because there's no actual point of comparison between them.

>>51967739
*archmagos

>>51967718

>meant to
>isn't

You're a fucking mongoloid. ST wins by the sheer virtue of shields, non-retarded combat tactics, self-sufficient ships, NANOMACHINES, molecular replicators, etc.

Seriously, every Galaxy-class carries the equivalent of several STCs. How can the Imperium even compare?

>>51967741

Well you COULD but in this particular case its bullshit. make it a fair comparison - like a dauntless class vs an Imperial class SD vs the Enterprise.

>>51967718
>It just looks crude
It IS crude, you ever read how primitive communications, radar and the like are? It has to be because if its not just basic servitors running simple calculations and code daemons can possess it.
>>51967741
>This side has the ability to move faster than light so it can avoid light based weapons
>Nuh-uh!
Come on now
>>51967739
Technology has been stagnant in the 40k universe for thousands of years due to the problem with tech heresy. Saying "Dude secret shit you don't know about muh maguffin" to counteract my statements isn't canon.

>>51967718
>super advanced, being 38k years in the future right?
The CAPABILITY to be super advanced, but 75% of the time due to draconian dogma they literally have one piece of super advance tech (i.e. a space cruise) and gear it up with a Cannon, and I don't mean a space cannon, I mean one that uses gun powder. And hope the ballistics work on that space-hulk.

40k while super advanced over all yes. Is probably one of the most unreliable settings technology wise.

>>51967083
>The fire combined with a warp storm and is now sentient
Let's wait until it becomes sapient and decides that Four need to get off its lawn.

>>51967764
>shields

Now I'm switching sides suddenly, but 40K has shields Anon.

>>51967794
That's just the imperium. Xeno tech is entirely reliable. The tau would Fucking man handle star wars and star trek, while playing by the latter's rules to boot

>>51967791
Doesn't matter. It still has millennia of advantage over trekkies. Even if they don't know how it actually works, it still works.

>>51967850
Todd I'm talking about canon not Fallout 4

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>>51967846
>That's just the imperium. Xeno tech is entirely reliable.
Is all one universe teaming up against all the other universe? Or just humans vs humans.

Star Trek has some crazy god like beings that don't give two shit about literally popping a race out of existence.

ITT
faggots that forgot that 40k was and continues to be satire

that setting flat out says, on the first fucking page of the big rule book, that everything sucks and is falling apart and humanity is in a state of rapid decline
star trek is literally the dark age of technology

>>51967764
>thinks 40k doesn't have shields

not knowing shit about the thing you're arguing against seems to be the norm these days

>>51967895

Imperial tech is ridiculously reliable too. Thats why you have ships so old that by now metal fatigue should have worn them out to dust. They just don't know how its made and there is no Discovery channel in the far future.

>>51967764
>How can the Imperium even compare?
By having thousands of worlds and spaceyards churning out spaceships, weapons and tanks. Each day they produce more weapons than Federation owns.

>>51967904
Yeah but its falling apart after a real real big climb.

The Culture can be compared to DaoT

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>>51967895
How big is Eve's universe?

>>51967938
more like each day the imperium loses more men, ships and tanks than the federation owns

>>51967904
Everyone knows 40k is ridiculous. It's the star trek fan boys that insist on comparing the two, because star trek is easily the gayest of the three settings.

>>51968041
Exactly, the imperium loses more stuff than the federation even has.

>>51959697
Same here

>>51960146
And yes he was talking out of his ass that screen cap is bullshit

>>51968154
yeah, usually its the trekkies that start shit about comparing federation to imperium about ship engagements, much in the same way that halo fanboys are usually the first to start autistically screeching about how master chief could take on the combined might of the space marine legions single handedly

meanwhile, 40k fans that got into it before dawn of war remember that it was a table top game you played with your friends

>>51967601
A GSV beats it

To be fair, a GSV beats pretty much everything that's not Xeelee-tier PEAK HAX

>>51964287
>It may have difficulty dealing with UFP shield generators, certainly, but that won't stop it from being WAY better at Exterminatus than a squadron of Imperium Battlecruisers if they don't at least pull out a virus-bomb and lance the atmosphere after it's done.
A small fleet of Imperial Battleships can blow up an entire planet. Exterminatus is used because it either leaves it intact as a dead world, or instantly gets the job done. The Night Lords have shown that a fleet of ships in 40k can blow up a planet by just firing their lances at it in under a day. They also mass scattered Nostramo so hard that chunks of Nostramo were accelerated to close to the speed of light by the explosion and ended up 400 light years away from the original site of the planet.


Also 40k ships commonly have teraton broadsides, which means they can cause a mass extinction even by just firing twice with full power.

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>>51959315
smeg

>>51967794
>gunpowder cannons
"Weapons batteries form the main armament for most warships,
ensuring that much of their hull is pock-marked by gun ports
and weapon housings. Each battery consists of rank upon rank
of weapons: plasma projectors, laser cannons, missile
launchers, rail guns, fusion beamers and graviton pulsars.
Weapons batteries fire by salvoes, using a co-ordinated pattern
of shots to catch the target in the middle of a maelstrom of
destruction."

That is BFG, blue book, page 35 for your reference.

Also. Hah. Gunpowder.
No bias there, yea?

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>>51960514
>Depends on the regiment within the ship. And who runs the ship.
Anon

>>51968041
That is a general consequence of larger political entities over smaller ones.

It's why governments are able to claim "more people than ever are in work" even if the unemployment rate is higher than usual - populations increase over time, so compared to the same country ten years ago, it's usually true that more people are in work.

The Oldpocalypse is coming though, and that may no longer hold true for nations with predominantly older populations, especially as automation becomes better and cheaper for all kinds of jobs.

>>51960514
...anon, the Imperial Navy runs the ship. They run all the ships that don't belong to Mars, Astartes, or Rogue Traders

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I thought this one was pretty obvious.

>>51968737
Dont forget the administratum!

the Navy probably doesnt have jurisdiction over trade/transportation/logistics

>>51967715
>some fantasy Evil-federation which doesn't exist.
Psst, you made a good idea.

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>>51966548
>How. The Imperium lacks FTL anything. They cannot target the Enterprise in any meaningful way, not even with their transporters, presuming that their transporters can even get through the Enterprise's shields, which I don't see any reason why they should be able to.
They don't even need to worry about the Enterprise or the Imperial Star Destroyer. Imperial warships and all 40k ships for that matter operate on a literal order of magnitude greater than both 'verses. Teratons, not megatons or kilotons.

The Imperium's teleporters, if the ship has them equipped, will ignore all shields of both the Empire and Federation. The only way to block warhammer teleportation is to use another dimension as a shield itself, which is what void shields are- a dimensional portal/bubble held around the ship that disperses all damage sustained into the warp. Teleportation works by tunneling through the warp, and popping out somewhere else, so you never actually spend any time in the materium. Trek teleporation works by turning you into energy, sending you through a solid object as neutrinos and shit, and then reassembling you on location. Obviously this can't be done if there's some object that blocks energy from moving through it, like shields.

As for movement speed, Imperial ships in 40k are capable of moving at speeds of .75c, AKA 75% the speed of light, without using their warp drive. They'll be fine against the enterprise and can take it down with lance batteries which are no different from phasers in speed.

>>51968776
These uniforms are quite spiffy, aren't they?

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>>51968699
which ones?

>>51968826
Yea...ehm...what?

Where on earth did you get the idea that they move at such a significant fraction of C?

I mean, if I am to remember my BFG here. Each cm is 100.000 km. an Imperial cruiser moves 20 cm a turn. A turn is roughly half an hour. iirc.

I dont think thats anywhere close to the speed of light.
Tho is it is pretty speedy.

>>51968785
Trader vessels are part of the Imperium's merchant navy - essentially part of the same thing and iirc subject to the orders of the Lord Admirals, though they also have their own command structure beneath that and their officers aren't military officers.

So basically the same deal merchant navies have now.

>>51968879
Neat, didnt know that. Always figured they fell under the administratum. Thank for the correction.

>>51961630
>Blood Ravens founder

>>51968826
>For the second time in less than an hour, space tore open. The reality fissure leapt and crackled like a luminous cephalopod, lashing tendrils of warp energy into real space that twisted out, fizzled and faded. Non-baryonic light flared brilliantly through the tear, backlighting the arriving ships. Monumental silhouettes, they were shot forward into real space. Four ships, one of them very large. And they were moving. Point seven five light at least, cutting straight towards Herodor. They did not slow down. They were moving at cruise speed. Attack Speed. The Saint: A Gaunt's Ghosts Omnibus, p.893-94

Imperial Ships consider 0.75c to be "combat speeds" (c stands for speed of light).

>“In the depths of space, such fights took place at ranges that would swallow a star system, ships hitting ships beyond each other’s visual ranges.”-Pg. 91 Deus Sanguinius

Imperial Ships engage each other at ranges as large as a star system.

>"Fusion motors unleashed the tiny suns at their cores and pushed the craft away, climbing the acceleration curve in a glitter of void shields and displaced energy. In moments, the vessel was rising towards one-quarter lightspeed." Pg.725 Nemesis

Imperial Ships can accelerate by moving at 130,000,000 gee's.

>"Even if the ports had remained open, there was nothing to see. You were brawling with - and being fired upon by - an object that might be thousands of kilometres away in the interstellar blackness, and moving at a considerable percentage of the speed of light." -p.162 Salvation's Reach

Further note of how the Imperium fights beyond visual range at significant chunks of lightspeed.

i think we've established that trekkie-anon is a fanboy retard that is unfamiliar with the universe he is arguing against

much like batman fanboys, he refuses to accept that superman fucking wins

>>51968957
Well, duh. Everyone knows Batman has his kryptonian-repellant spray handy.

>>51959406
Here is how it goes. Picard, knowing the Q is just bullshitting the entire situation ACTUALLY PLAYS ALONG because it might as well be akin to holograms.

They scan the Imperium ship, see there are no actual shields that can stop it, and transport explosives into the bridge.

>>51968915
>"Outside the station the macro cannon and lances of the Aethon began to rotate. Plasma flushed into reactors and energy wells, the fury of suns snarling in its shackles." -Pg.374, Architect of Fate

Imperial Ships can boil away oceans with their lance batteries, which requires petatons of energy to achieve.

>"The Night Lords' ships orbited Nostramo, hundreds of weapons trained on the shrouded planet, the rays of the system's dying sun glinting from barrels too numerous to count. As the fabric of space buckled and twisted, disgorging the few craft able to keep pace, the lances and mass drivers of Night Haunter's flagship opened fire upon the planet.

>Beam after beam of incandescent light joined the fusillade, all concentrating upon the same point, a weak spot in Nostramo's adamantium crust theorised to be left by the Primarch's initial landing. The lasers of the Night Lords' ships focused a blinding lance of pure energy into the planet's core, and with a cataclysmic explosion, the dark planet burst apart. "-Index Astartes II:Night Lords.

The Night Lords completely mass scatter Nostramo by using their lance batteries, firing at the planet for under a day. We know that from the Night Lord novels, chunks of Nostramo have been found over two sectors from the original location. This means those chunks were accelerated to close to the speed of light from the energy of the explosion. This is Adamantium as well, so a normal planet would go "boom" a lot sooner and not require as much concentration.

>>51968915
>Imperial Ships engage each other at ranges as large as a star system.
Impossible unless their shots move faster than light.

>>51969015
>"It returned fire just as its shields died, unleashing a blistering barrage of lances, solid shells and plasma fire from its prow weapons batteries, as well as a precisely timed single magma bomb warhead, principally designed for surface attack, from its bombardment cannon. This payload struck the Sword just as massed fire from the three other Traitor Astartes vessels coordinated their prow weapons on the same target. It was as close to the shark-like unity of the black sea sharks as the Exalted could have imagined, but that was hardly foremost in the Night Lord commander’s mind.

>All of this unleashed punishment was enough, barely, to achieve the Exalted’s desires. The colossal Sword of the God-Emperor, pride of Battlefleet Crythe, flagship of Lord Admiral Valiance Arventaur, no longer shimmered behind an invinciblescreen of rippling energy. Its shields were down, overloaded by the sudden savage assault of the Astartes strike cruiser.
>The Exalted was not a fool. He knew void war, and he knew the capabilities of his foes, the strength of their weapons, and the power of their vessels. He knew the Sword of the God-Emperor was bristling with failsafes and auxiliary generatoriums, and his attack had inflicted no real damage to the enemy flagship beyond temporarily overloading its shields by giving them too much to absorb at once. They would be back online within moments?a minute at the very most?multi-layered and strong once more." -pdf version, p.50, Soul Hunter.

It requires four Astartes Strike Cruisers focusing their fire on a grand cruiser to drop its shields. Like all 40k ships, its shields will quickly come back online if the generators are operational unless the ship is immediately cut apart by torpedoes/lances/broadsides.

>>51969015
why would it go boom.
Wouldnt the lances melt throught the crust, and the core. and then come out the other side? Leaving a massive gaping hole through the thing which might make it break apart.

But explosions? You'd need something to transfer that energy somehow. Like a massive fuckoff railgun. Or something.

Not a burn-melty doomlaser.

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This is why you don't mix universes when arguing you faggy power levels, and especially when those universes are written by people who have no idea how mathematics and science works

>>51964041
>Just look at the FUCKING. MOVIES.

I see AT-AT heavy laser impacts producing little puffs of snow in the same movie.

Starfighter lasers that can cause massive damage to the surface of the Death Star cause less damage than a .50 cal when used inside the hangar of a trade federation battleship.

There's no way you can explain why star destroyer turbolasers are that powerful when their smaller versions are so damned weak.

The energy calculations based on asteroid destruction are completely useless and anyone who claims to be a scientist but who gives them any weight should commit suicide in shame.

>>51968868
It might be combat speed. Been a long time since i read up on BFG/Space Fleet lore, but large fractions of C aren't likely to be terribly useful for fighting a big battle.

And it's likely that, unless vessels are able to safely transit into orbit of a world, they have to do so on the edge of a system - this is often described in fluff, in fact - from which transit might be (taking Sol as a referential device) 4+ hours at full C. So being able to travel at, say, .25 C might be essential for battleships - which implies power outputs several orders of magnitude greater than any ST or SW vessel, excepting maybe the obvious starbase and deathstar or SSD.

The alternative is that any enemy capable of faster travel (the Eldar, presumably, or Tau vessels at full skip) would simply outrun a human vessel rather than fight it.

Being able to travel at just .1 C would make transit bearable, and even .001 C would be tolerable, but it really depends not on the distance from the heliopause to the primary, but on the distance from the Warp-gate, jump point or whatever to the intended destination - which might easily become 60 AU if your charts are out of date (which they probably are, what with the way the Warp works and all).

And that's assuming you don't have to go around things in realspace - no-fly zones, big battles, whatever.

I'm not saying there's a passage out there that has them doing C from a standing start (as there almost certainly is for SW - not sure about Trek, but it seems to depend on the size of the engine as "half Impulse" isn't really a constant speed, though full impulse may be close to C), but it's a necessary consequence of interstellar travel if Warp-gates have to be out-system.

>>51968868
>>51969230

>I dont think thats anywhere close to the speed of light.

ST:TMP's Enterprise passes Jupiter from Earth in about 108 minutes - a minimum of 588 million kilometers - at 0.5 Warp (ENT has the time to Neptune and back at 6 minutes at Warp 4.5, but that's a whole other mindfuck); this was without the warp engines being online, and is about .3 C - so if an Imperial cruiser really does travel 2000,000km in 30 minutes, it's peaking at about 6.7 C.

It's not really anywhere close to the speed of light, no.

Actually, if the were capable of these speeds, there would be very little need for most short-range Warp travel - as it's much riskier (unless it's far less energy intensive).

>>51968900
May have come from the HH fluff Forge World put out.

>>51969246
>there would be very little need for most short-range Warp travel - as it's much riskier (unless it's far less energy intensive).
There is no short range warp jumps. The idea of "warp jumps" is retarded bullshit invented by that shitty BFG videogame.

>>51969230
>The alternative is that any enemy capable of faster travel (the Eldar, presumably, or Tau vessels at full skip) would simply outrun a human vessel rather than fight it.

Well just to be the devils advocate. The eldars do that. Often. Annoyingly so.

>>51966715
>With the amount of warp fuckery in 40k you think warp space is going to help you get away from them?

Um. Yes.

>What happens when the legion of the dammed just manifests on your ships without warning?

Not gonna happen. Trek ships are shielded against such incursions.

>What happens when your jedi and sith have their minds melted by a 40k psyker?

Question.

What's the range of a typical psyker?

>What happens when your trek ships run out of fuel and can't keep going FTL?

The Galaxy-class in question runs on a matter/antimatter drive. It might run out of fuel in a few centuries. Maybe. And it has 10 years worth of consumables on board, presuming that this fight begins with it having a full, "fresh out of spacedock" set of supplies aboard (I will, of course, grant the same consideration to the Star Destroyer and Mars-class).

>What happens when you destroy 100 imperial planets and realize that's not even 1% of their total strength?

I dunno, but the contest isn't between The Federation and the Imperium and the Empire as wholes. It's one ship from each.

>>51966731
They don't have to drop out of warp at all if they just want to use photon torpedoes. Given that they have FTL detection technology as well, "dropping out of warp" could be done for literally one second before accelerating away again, with the attack coming from any angle.

>>51967171
>It's the fucking God-Emperor giving them a direct order, they'd have Naval armsmen queuing up to be teleported onto the enemy ships even with 99 in 100 odds

It's 100 in 100 odds. The Imperium can't transport past a Starfleet vessel's shields. Starfleet can't even manage it without bizarre technobabble that only works in unique situations.

>>51967405
40K isn't the Superman of sci-fi. They're not even close. The fuck are they going to do against the Daleks and the Time Lords, for example - species who have both had end-game plans that involve wiping out the entire universe, and the means to pull it off?

>>51968702
>No bias there, yea?

I don't care if people think the Galactic Empire can defeat the Imperium, but it annoys me when they think they know all about 40k when all they all they do is repeat memes and the factually incorrect headcanon of others that they read somewhere.

>>51969323
>Not gonna happen. Trek ships are shielded against such incursions.
Trek shields won't do anything against the warp because it completely bypasses traditional shields. They need something akin to both void and gellar ships to stop the warp from saying hullo.

>What's the range of a typical psyker?
Beyond visual. The most powerful psykers (alpha) were able to control entire sectors of space, which is 200x200 lightyears. So even a delta trained for use in ship combat is going to have some pretty long range.

>It's 100 in 100 odds. The Imperium can't transport past a Starfleet vessel's shields
yes they can, Starfleet shields will do nothing against the warp because it is completely different from Starfleet's method of teleportation. 40k teleportation is about completely circumventing the home dimension and tunneling into an enemy ship through another universe.

>>51969323
This gun be good.


>Not gonna happen. Trek ships are shielded against such incursions.

Probably not, since warp bullshit does not exist in ST.

>What's the range of a typical psyker?
Shit, just like your average jedi.
People have a bad habit of confusing the named super-snowflakes with the joe's

then some silly dickwaving

>The Imperium can't transport past a Starfleet vessel's shields. Starfleet can't even manage it without bizarre technobabble that only works in unique situations.

This actually I dont know.
Because 40k teleporters are magic. sad but true. Shunting people through the warp rather then any sane way of doing it.

its way they tend to limit it to crazy fucks like Terminators, warpspiders and murder-servitors.

Can ST shields prevent magic? Considering Q's habitual coming and going I would say theres a good case for "nope"

>>51969366

True there. SW Empire has better comms, stable FTL which, on a galactic scale tip the balance against the Imperium. Plenty of battles will be lost, but the war will be won.

>>51969398
>Starfleet shields will do nothing against the warp because it is completely different from Starfleet's method of teleportation. 40k teleportation is about completely circumventing the home dimension and tunneling into an enemy ship through another universe.

Going to have to call you on that - in BFG you can't teleport onto a shielded ship.

>>51967535
Impulse speed is anything up to, but not including, the speed of light. Many ships when traveling at impulse can move about .25c, which is phenomenally fast by WH40K's standards. Some on-screen evidence actually suggests that impulse is itself capable of providing FTL travel, albeit presumably not as efficiently as a warp drive.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Impulse_drive

It doesn't matter: Star Trek has tactical FTL, and WH40K doesn't. In a space battle, if you can't hit something, you can't beat it. End of discussion.

>>51967604
How accurately?

>>51968826
>Teleportation works by tunneling through the warp, and popping out somewhere else, so you never actually spend any time in the materium.

But you still need to be able to target, but everything in 40K is limited to speed of light. By the time nail where the Enterprise is, it's not there anymore.

>They'll be fine against the enterprise

Warp 1 IS the speed of light. Warp 2 is, in the TNG scale, about 10 times the speed of light. The Enterprise's cruising speed is Warp 5, which is - again, in the TNG scale - about 215 times the speed of light.

They will not be "fine", they'll be wondering what the Hell is hitting them but literally be unable to detect it.

>>51968915
>Imperial Ships engage each other at ranges as large as a star system.


But their attacks are still limited to, at most, the speed of light. If the Imperium ship is 1 AU from the Enterprise, then any attack will, at its fastest, take 8 minutes to reach the Enterprise. The Enterprise will be more than capable of moving out of the way.

Engaging at such large ranges is only useful when your opponent is similarly limited to sublight detecting, but the Enterprise is not: it can detect things at faster-than-light speeds.

Picard literally used and abused this fact once when fighting a Ferengi vessel that was no capable. It's called the Picard Maneuver.

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Threadly reminder.

A C'tan shard, in the Shield of Baal second book, jumped to space and flew through the void in a speed said to surpass the speed of any Imperial space vessel. As we know, C'tan shards have no thrusters or any means of acceleration. Look at this shard. It's butt naked.

Ergo, Imperial Navy ships are slow as hell.

>>51969466

Void shields are not star trek shields you tit....

>>51969466
Correct!

Now what is a void shield and why would they stop teleportation? Might it be because void shields interact with the warp?
Literally displacing energy, projectiles n' shit away from reality.

Which would mess with something else trying to interact with not-reality.

the Imperium doesnt use massive energy field-things. Thats for personal use (and even then some are just as fucking bullshit. Seriously, can someone tell me how refractor shields turn bullets & bolters into bright light?)

>>51969504
>‘Have you forgotten?’ said Captain Morgrom of the Invaders. His face was a wide, battered expanse of leather, contrasting with the polished deep green of his armour. ‘I sent three squads of Terminator-armoured brothers by teleport onto the World Engine. Its shields sent them back twisted and dead.’

-World Engine novel

The Necrons shields stopped any telepoertion attempts by Space Marines. As we know, Necron ships are technological the same as Star Trek.

Ergo, 40K Teleportion won't work against Star Trek shields.

>>51969543
Ok, you sir get the best bait award of this entire thread.

This is guaranted to rustle jimmies

>>51969543


Necrons...same as Star Trek tech.

Just kill yourself and your immediate next of kin.
Make sure the genepool is not polluted further for the benefit of all mankind.

>>51969566
Aye, my jimmies be rustled indeed.

>>51969543
Necrons have also had to deal with the Eldar and Chaos, so their shields need to be able to prevent access via warp travel.

>>51969572
Both function using real physic principles. Nothing magical about them.

>>51969601
No they don't.

>>51968641
There are plenty of things in the Cultureverse that can beat a GSV easily. They aren't particularly hax, just written by an author with a sense of scale.

>>51969535
The issue is that Star Trek's other technologies have been used to close up or prevent otherdimensional travel before, such as when the Enterprise-D stopped an incursion of solanogen-based lifeforms into their space. I'm nearly confident that the Enterprise-D has used its shields to protect against otherdimensional space as well at other points, although I admit that I can't think of any specific occurrence.

However, the point is that this is hardly untrod territory for them.

>>51969572
Anon he's baiting you.

>>51969627
Yes, they do. Necron shields are called Quantum Shields. They run on quantum physics.

>>51969655
What quantum physics principle do shields run on?

>>51969649
I know and cursed be his cheetos crusted hands its working.

>>51969634
See I dont know these things about star trek.

I'm happy to agree on that then, if they have encountered similar things before it would make sense that they could *technobabble* their way out of it. So to speak.

Well I'm happy that issue got solved.

Now onto issue #843 "My daddy can beat up yours"

>>51969679
The third one.

>>51967667
It's less about the Techpriests themselves, and more about the "Machine Spirits" (Read: Advanced scraps of AI code) that could probably go toe to toe with AI of the other factions

Who wins?

Galactic Empire of Star Wars or Galactic Empire of Foundation?

>>51969781
whats that last one?

>>51969323
>thinking that a shield can stop angry space marine ghosts from boarding your ship
Supernatural trumps science 10 times out of 10. You can't escape the legion of the dammed if they want you dead

>>51969781
The Empire's feats in Foundation are kind of vague and based on a scale that's pretty different to modern sci fi. If we're just doing it on pure scale, Foundation's Empire wins, but in terms of tech, SW wins hands down. Foundation are basically still on atomic power.

>>51969800
Issac Asimov's foundation.

the problem with this is that we are facing humans vs humans. humans in 40k are one of the worst races when it comes to space travel and fighting.
if we added one of the xenos races(barring tyranids and orks) they would slaughter both star trek and star wars.
Necrons in particular are well suited to fighting both of those universes. they have the reaction speeds of a robot, that was made by an actual god.
they have a doomsday device that laughs at the death star(aetheric orb)
they get away with more technowizardry than the engineers of the enterprise.
they have inertialess drives or webway portals that murder star trek FTL.
they never run out of supplies.
one warrior is stronger and tougher than worf and data put together

Necrons, Necrons win

>>51969543
Necrons use folded time as shields and armor.

>>51969746
Against Star Trek Federation I imagine they'd decimate any system that is not closed curcuit.

Star Wars has had AI for centuries so that one has to go to the judges.

>>51969823
We're doing a human on human comparison to make it fair for trek and star wars. Eldar tau and necrons would beat them without effort

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>>51969854
I imagine DOAT tech and (possibly) chaos/C'tan buffs would give them an advantage. Not sure though, I'm not super familiar with ST, but I don't think SW could hold against chaos corruption.

>>51969891
Not sure about Tau, they really can't into Warp.

>>51969971
yes thats true

>>51969916
DaoT stuff will certainly bitch slap regular Star Wars and most of irregular star wars. But DaoT archeotech is the handwavium of 40k.

Chaos makes everything and everyone into a little bitch. Especially those that are not indoctrinated from birth.

I imagine Picard would fall for Tzeench and he would not even know it.
Kirk would be a slaaneshi...

>>51970009
worf for the blood god

>>51959406
I think a Sword-class Frigate would be better than this Mars-Cruiser. The cruiser would just obliterate both combatants.
Also Star Trek would win this fight. After all do you really think they wouldn't do something to the Destroyer, when they got their hands on it as a safety measure?

>>51969305
Between two systems say five light years apart would be a short-range jump, assuming top speed is C without using the Warp.

But even if it's going to take a decade, there might be greater benefit to sending a fleet at 0.5 C between the systems to risking it in the Warp for a half-hour jump.

>>51969314
True, but they're supposed to be a rung higher up the tech ladder than humanity, at least in M30-M41.

>>51970009
>muh chaos

>>51969734
Which states?

>>51967472
>Just because the flash is faster than superman doesn't mean super still doesn't win
Where's that copypasta detailing how the Flash is the most powerful superhero in the universe?

>>51970634
Uuuuh, the first, third, and twelfth ones, duh.

Imperium: Filthy rags and burlap sacks

Galactic Empire: Incredibly boring and bland grey uniforms despite being alleged space nazis (presumably to make the more unusual imperials have outfits that pop

Federation: Mostly pretty stupid but the DS9-era ones are pretty good looking, though the uniforms are terrible (requiring to be completely undressed every time you need to piss, and needing help to get back on, is terrible)

I'm going to say Federation by a slim margin in appearance, GE if you factor in appearance and function.

The 40k imperial navy is one of the most embarrassing elements of 40k and even of players that like the Imperium, I know of nobody who likes the idea of their character having a ship full of stinky hobos who can travel faster than light but don't know how to use machines to load ammunition.

>>51969781
The Foundation Empire.

Trantor alone has like 40 billion people.

>>51960146

A borg cube is 3km per side. A typical Imperium Cruiser is about 8km long, and 4km x 4km tall/wide based on the minis and artwork.

The writer clearly was a solid fan of Star Trek, and had a passing working knowledge of Star Wars and 40k. He couldn't even think of an iconic ship and captain?!? Compel Bast of the Divine Right is the in-universe protagonist captain of the setting. He also doesn't seem to be aware that 40k ships have teleportariums, too.

His view is based on applying the plot logic of a particular setting. In Star Wars, the war could go either way but would be nasty and brutal because something something Dark Side. In Star Trek, it would play out as he wrote: with a pulled-out-the-ass resolution that avoids a fight and a concentration on negotiations and jargonating new technology of the week bullshit. In 40k, it would be the worst possible outcome for everyone, but in this case naive high tech groups like the Federation would be crushed underfoot by the sheer mindless brutality of the Imperium. Against the Empire, again cue the nasty/brutal grind.

Best uniforms? The Imperium, definitely. ESPECIALLY if you use a RT ship.

The thing is, the Imperium ship has at minimum an astropath and a navigator. Both of whom have super-psyker powers that are far, far beyond what the Federation ever deals with and Emperor/Darth Vader-tier for Star Wars. And we know from multiple ST episodes that psi bypasses deflector shields. Deanna would cough up her own intestines.

In general, the Hyperdrive means that the Empire of Star Wars would win by virtue of its ability to take and hold the tactical initiative. Also Star Wars fighters >>>>>>> 40k attack craft. The enterprise has powerful weapons/maneuverability, but shit for defenses. 40k weapons batteries use saturation fire for exactly this reason, because they're used to dealing with foes like this (aka "eldar"). So Imperium would take second place.

Any of them could win by guile, of course.

>>51962169
I wish that that image had the one of the Golden Ships from Cordwainer Smith's books.

They are roughly 1 AU long.

>>51961799
>>51961897

All three ships are capable of sterilizing a planet via ortillery, given a lot of time and concentrated firepower. In 40k, you retrofit an exterminatus weapon so you can depopulate a planet in a brief strike. It's for situations where you can't hang around and take the time to bomb them back to the pre-cambrian. Usually because there's an enemy fleet or ground-based defenses. You can slug your way into orbit, but you can't just stick around for a week to pound them down with anti-ship weapons.

All three ships have similar firepower. But their ability to defend against an equal amount of firepower directed at them DOES vary. Two Imperial Navy ships can slug it out for days-- a typical cruiser's shields can stop a typical cruiser's firepower. Ditto for a Star Destroyer, despite concentrating all that shootiness in what for the Imperium is a frigate. But the Enterprise's shields will collapse under the firepower of a peer in minutes. Its best defense is to run away or destroy its foe.

Saying that one ship or another is more maneuverable or faster is ridiculous. The setting doesn't even honor its own tech specs, and the actual in-fiction times to get between two places in-system are totally up to plot and change from story to story.

So the main issues boil down to special equipment. Fighters, teleporters, psi, marines, etc.

>>51961630
>>51961550
Worth remembering though, she is routinely beaten and apprehended by children. It's kind of the appeal of the games and gameshow and that one weird mail order adventure set.
Adults can't find this scary woman who just stole a continent, but YOU CAN.

>>51959406
But what if this Qu started talking to Picard?

>>51962478

He's basically a ST fan who takes the most generous possible reading of ST lore, combined with a superficial understanding of SW and 40k, and then writes an ST episode around the results.

>>51962494

Nova Cannons are significantly more powerful than a gravimetric torpedoes.

I do agree that the Enterprise's phaser arrays are collectively equivalent to a 40k lance. I might even go further and say it's a counts-as for an Eldar pulsar lance. But you're forgetting that a typical cruiser carries multiple lances. How often do you see the Enterprise fire multiple beams or at multiple targets? 40k cruisers do that all the time.

The Enterprise is essentially a Hemlock destroyer that can fire a torpedo. It has cruiser-grade firepower, very weak defenses, and is very fast and hard to hit, with a very high crew quality. Maybe give it one pulsar lance, one torpedo, and one conventional shield in addition to the holofield and you'll have a galaxy class cruiser. The same stats might hold for a Nebula class, too. Maybe use shadowhunters to represent smaller ships.

BTW, those stats mean that worf would report that shields collapsed after a lance hit... but without killing the Enterprise. It would be a case of "Captain, we can't take another hit like that." And that fits. Full-on barrages from peers take down the Enterprise's shields in seconds. Imperium ships can beat on one another all day to no effect (hence the need for fleets).

>>51962522

I love B5 more than any of these settings, but unless you're one of the First Ones, this is a fight even the Minbari can't win. It's just a feature of hte setting.

Trying to decipher the megatons and megalights and impulse g-ratings and etc etc etc is a fool's errand. All that stuff is never honored in the setting outside the technical manuals.

>>51971265
>All three ships have similar firepower.

They really don't. The power of weaponry in Star Trek far outstrips that in 40k, to a ridiculous amount.

>Saying that one ship or another is more maneuverable or faster is ridiculous.

Ships in Star Trek fight at FTL. Ships in 40k have mobs of hobos slowly carry shells to load and then, in some cases, use ropes to turn and aim the turrets. The tech level really can't be compared.

>>51962709
>>51962753
>>51962776

40k ships are too big IMO for fighters to be able to destroy them outright, but i think they could be crippled.

IMO 40k fighters are totally outclassed by Star Wars. Just the assumptions of the setting. The cruisers and ISD's are much more evenly matched.

Of course then you factor in hyperdrive and it's all over.

>>51971643
>Star wars fighters destroy moon sized battle stations, but 40k ships are too big.

Mmmkay.

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*blocks your path*

>>51971674
>>Star wars fighters destroy moon sized battle stations, but 40k ships are too big.
>exploiting a design flaw added in for the express purpose of allowing the rebels to destroy the deathstar is the same thing as using massed fire to destroy a ships designed to take the massive amount of damage which 40k ships put out compared to star wars ones

>>51963359

Just going by the pictures in Battlefleet Gothic and some of the FFG supplements that show the Koronus Cluster uniforms, I'll take them over the Star Wars uniforms.

I agree about Star Trek's pajamas. The only costumes that were at all interesting were some of the lingerie/sexy clothes (hit or miss, but when they hit they hit, especially TOS).

So I suppose Troi and Beverly would look pretty damn good when they're moved into the captain's personal harem.

>>51971724
>Implying the Second death star and starkiller base didn't have even bigger flaws
>Implying the existence of such design flaws aren't guaranteed once you start building things that big.
>Implying the force doesn't guide pilots to those flaws in order to preserve the galaxy.

>>51968985

How quaint!

>>51964041
>Star Wars
>Calculations for their weapons are based on a throwaway scene in empire when one star destroyer shoots an asteroid
>They get a physicist to write their incredible cross sections book, so he uses that as a basis for all weapons power and scales the weapons accordingly, claims the fighter lasers must unleash kilotons of energy

HOWEVER

>Later movies show fighters engaging inside an atmosphere with their lasers
>There is a conspicuous absence of mushroom clouds and mass destruction
>In Rogue One's case, the fighters are dispatched with the specific orders to completely wipe out the base so they definitely should be using maximum possible firepower, but the weapons seem less effective that a WW2 bomber's conventional payload. Definitely not an atomic bomb a shot
>Scenes showing warships barraging each other at close range show shield penetrating hits blowing up a single gun emplacement, guys standing nearby in the corridor aren't instantly vaporized
>Puppet Moff Tarkin is awed by the ability of the death star to slag one city
>But according to these official incredible cross section books, every star destroyer should be able to do that in a single shot (turbo lasers are apparently hundreds of gigatons in firepower!)
>The tactics of ground forces (shown in every movie) are completely at odds with having small, mobile, nuclear level artillery

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>>51971763
>Implying the force doesn't guide pilots to those flaws in order to preserve the galaxy.
The Force is weak, old man. Give in to the true dark side and embrace Chaos.

>>51971615

You keep saying that. And you're still wrong.

A single lance is roughly similar to the Enterprise's entire phaser array. The enterprise has torpedo launchers that do roughly the same damage overall. A bog-standard Imperial Cruiser carries two, plus weapons batteries designed for saturation fire which can inflict a maximum of twelve times that. Plus a nova cannon or torpedo array. Plus short-ranged point defense weapons used to destroy small craft within a few hundred kilometers via saturation fire.

An individual macro-cannon takes forever to load, but that's why ships have dozens of them. That's why they're fired in batteries.

Ships in ST *move* in FTL. Their weapons move STL just like everyone elses'. And actually the fact that the stargazer maneuver is so unusual suggests that fighting is similar to what we see in the shows: chases conducted at warp, but evasion and maneuver conducted at impulse power. BoBW 1 and 2 have good illustrations of this.

Look, you need to take this less personally. You're cherry picking the best possible examples from Star Trek, and contrasting them with your superficial understanding of 40k and Star Wars (by far the more interesting comparison is between these two).

The thing is, the power level of a setting has NOTHING to do with its quality for storytelling purposes. I'd say that Star Wars is the best of the three in storytelling, and then 40k and Star Trek are roughly equivalent in overall quality. Babylon 5 kicks all three of their asses, but its power level is far, far lower than any of them. The fact that Jar Jar Binks could or could not beat up Jean Luc Picard in a thumb-wrestling match has nothing to do with their relative quality as characters in a story.

At least stop trying to litigate the dispute. You clearly don't know enough about 40k or Star Wars. That's fine. Treasure your ignorance. When will 40k ever get a novelization written by the likes of James Blish or Alan Dean Foster?

>>51971615
>Ships in 40k have mobs of hobos slowly carry shells to load and then, in some cases, use ropes to turn and aim the turrets. The tech level really can't be compared.

Some macrocannons have giant shells that are loaded via derpy giant ropes and pulleys, but see:
>>51968702

>"Weapons batteries form the main armament for most warships,
ensuring that much of their hull is pock-marked by gun ports
and weapon housings. Each battery consists of rank upon rank
of weapons: plasma projectors, laser cannons, missile
launchers, rail guns, fusion beamers and graviton pulsars.
Weapons batteries fire by salvoes, using a co-ordinated pattern
of shots to catch the target in the middle of a maelstrom of
destruction."

>That is BFG, blue book, page 35 for your reference.

But I guess you just skipped the thread and looked for a recent post to reply to just so you could bless us with your preconceived notions.

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>>51967983
Pretty sure it's just a single galaxy at most, maybe a star cluster. Each dot is a solar system.

>>51972159
>Babylon 5 kicks all three of their asses
My nigga

>>51971763
>>Implying the Second death star and starkiller base didn't have even bigger flaws
No, they didn't have any such flaws. DS2 wasn't even finished at the time. The ship was fully operational, but seeing as it still had gaping holes in the side it didn't have any design flaws, the rebels just stuck early enough.
And starkiller only fell because a traitor stormtrooper helped the rebs get the shields down.
>>Implying the existence of such design flaws aren't guaranteed once you start building things that big.
No, they really aren't. Your talking about massive ships from the height of mans understanding of science, which have been used for over 10,000 years. If such flaws did exist then they would be regularly exploited.
>>Implying the force doesn't guide pilots to those flaws in order to preserve the galaxy.
>implying the force means fuck all when you have to get through void shields.
Moreover, if any star wars ship is in range to hit a 40k vessel, that ship is going to ram it. The only thing it couldn't ram would be the extremely small crafts, but those in no way have the power to even bring down a void shield, let alone destroy any form of 40k battleship.
Like trying to kill a warlord titan with a lasgun

>>51971952

This is what happens when people either cherry pick their examples or over-extrapolate from tech manual data that even in a series's own canon isn't respected.

This BTW applies to all three settings. The best benchmarks are plot points that appear repeatedly and appear consistent in the original source material.

>>51967669
>I was only pretending to be retarded!

>>51959406
3/1. The Imperium would have detonated the warp engines and sucked everyone into warp leaving them trapped for ever.

>>51972214
Vader finds your lack of faith disturbing.

>>51972660
Vader can go suck on a nova cannon.

Not that any of this will matter soon. Since roubute guilliman is coming back, the imperium will have a primarch, who is one of the best generals and far and away the best statesman in the history of the imperium and mankind, so by the end of this month ST and SW will get BTFO every time.
Because the thought of them ever competing when a fucking primarch is at the imperium's head is laughable at best

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>>51972703
>Not that any of this will matter soon. Since roubute guilliman is coming back, the imperium will have a primarch, who is one of the best generals and far and away the best statesman in the history of the imperium and mankind, so by the end of this month ST and SW will get BTFO every time.
You're goddamn r-

No wait, they're probably going to end up getting btfo in the canon anyway, resulting in no Imperium to fight. Aw.

>>51972865
>No wait, they're probably going to end up getting btfo in the canon anyway, resulting in no Imperium to fight
>GW letting the ultras lose
>GW letting a fucking primarch lose
>GW making a move that will kill the setting when it's been explicitly stated that won't be happening

Come on anon, this ain't WHFB. 40k makes money, and there no way in hell GW is going to make the most important event in all of warhammer history for it's best selling faction end with a major loss for the SM.

>>51968176
And it gives exactly zero fucks.

>>51972958
>Come on anon, this ain't WHFB
Anon, they brought back a primarch. We don't know what they'll do.

>>51968154
Yeah when 40k has harder use of physics then your setting, it's time to take a hard look at yourself.

>>51972660

The typical astropath on an imperial navy cruiser will be a vader-level psyker or better. He won't have vader's melee prowess, but that's why the astropath is surrounded by a few hundred armsmen.

Let alone if there's more than one astropath, as there often is, or if the Navigator decides to use HIS considerable powers.

Vader's powerful WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF HIS SETTING. Hell, Troi and Spock were potent in comparison to the other characters around them and the challenges they were presented in-universe. But they're not even worth recruiting as Jedi in star wars's inflated power level. 40k cranks everything up to 11, so not only do they have even more powerful psykers of their own, but they're also used to dealing with psychic super-warriors and have countermeasures they can fall back on.

>>51969305
I think you'll find it was in Rogue Trader (FF rpg not 1st ed 40K) before that.

>>51973075

But in fairness, all three settings harken back to an era when we didn't have internet fan communities doing fourth order differential equations to try to extrapolate the implications of throwaway uses of jargon. We're holding all three to standards of rigor that they were never supposed to be able to withstand.

It's a fun thought experiment, but the only thing we know for sure is that when it comes to known artwork, 40k has the most pimp-ass uniforms of the bunch, Star Wars is the best source material, and Star Trek... well... I can't think of what redeeming qualities that has. I wonder if in the not too distant future it'll be Star Wars vs 40k vs some big ship from a guardians of the galaxy sequel.

>>51973136
>ticks another box in the "why FFG was cockguzzling retards" column

>>51973157
True, and 40K only really enforces the scale and emptiness of space insofar as it serves it's grimdark atmosphere, enforcing the tyranny of distance to feed isolation and dread.

>>51970443
>After all do you really think they wouldn't do something to the Destroyer, when they got their hands on it as a safety measure?

I think Trek tech could, though I think Imperial tech could trump Trek tech as well.

When doing a crossover, I try and create a proper blend of the settings involved, rather than just leaning one way or another. Basically, if crossing over WH40K with Star Trek, you're not going to get Grim Darkness, but you're not going to get Noble Brightness either.

The thing is the scenario also includes Star Wars, which is also noblebright.

>>51966101
The numbers they've used for void-capable, drive across the ocean floor between continents, nuke surviving land raiders make that unlikely.

>>51971268
>Worth remembering though, she is routinely beaten and apprehended by children.

Worth remembering though that she deliberately leaves behind clues and hints, and takes deliberate effort to not cause any undue harm.

A Carmen Sandiego who didn't care about that?

>Where in the world did everyone's brain stems go?

>>51971588
>He's basically a ST fan who takes the most generous possible reading of ST lore

Actually I was extremely conservative and basically just exploited the superior tactical FTL of Star Trek, then combined it with the Federation's willingness to work with others to achieve a goal, which the Empire shares but the Imperium generally lacks except against an outside, overwhelming force.

I did not, for example, make use of transporters, and vastly understated the power of Federation weaponry.

>>51972159
>Their weapons move STL just like everyone elses'

This is false. Photon torpedoes (and in some scenes, phasers) can be observed being fired while the ships are moving at FTL speeds. Do you want me to start listing scenes, or will you just trust me on this one?

>And actually the fact that the stargazer maneuver is so unusual

It's unusual because most ships in Star Trek have FTL sensors, so the Picard Maneuver wouldn't work on them. It only worked on the Ferengi because they had sublight sensors. This is explicitly outlined and explained in the episode itself.

>>51972133
>a xenomorph with a lightsaber

scientists have no fucking morals

>>51973279

In Star Trek, they're enamored of principled stands that ensure that they never do anything morally questionable, no matter what the seeming cost is. Then a particle of the week pops up or some sophistical manipulation of the enemy (who always turns stuffy and legalistic about 35 minutes into the episode), who then conveniently vanishes as a plot obstacle at 40 minutes, leaving 4 minutes left for a moralizing philosophical musing from Picard.

In Star Trek, you always warn coventry that the nazis are coming, you twist around a few lines from the Koran after 9/11 and suddenly al Qaeda surrenders, and you unilaterally disarm and the Soviets become your best friends. That's just the conceit of the setting.

In 40k, it's the other way around. ANY even remotely humanitarian display is ruthlessly punished by either the Imperium or the plot. If you try to save a planet of dewey-eyed innocents and virgins, no matter how doable it seems or how minor the threat appears, 40k will certainly make you live to bitterly regret it. Even the greatest heroes--Admiral Ravensburg, Inquisitor Kryptman, Commissar Yarrick, Rogue Trader Captain Poirot-- all were ruthless men who were at times needlessly cruel and even evil. Because that's what the grim universe of the 40th millennium demands. Lesser men get assraped by demons, xenos, and simple human malice/incompetence.

In Star Wars, it's a middle ground. You'll get your happy ending (maybe and sometimes) but not without a huge cost. Idealism is usually the smart move (as in Star Trek) but unlike ST, there are situations in Star Wars where you have to set your face grimly and make hard terrible sacrifices for the Greater Good. At times, those sacrifices are so bitter that they're almost 40k tier. The contrast makes the times the main characters do stick to their principles that much more courageous (in ST it's cheap) and when losses and failures happen it's that much more tragic (in 40k it's routine).

I like the uniforms of TNG more than the others, especially after they got rid of the spandex of the first few seasons. I like how the uniforms are all pretty much the same but certain changes denote the difference of rank/job.

>>51966101
>>51966683

The word I keep hearing is "ceramite". Which could be anything the setting requires it to be.

>>51973640
>That's just the conceit of the setting.

And then there's this asshole, who's never watched Deep Space 9 or Enterprise.

>>51973568
Know the power of the dark gods, heathen.

>>51973694
Never watching Enterprise is the only correct course of action.

>>51973723
I disagree. Vehemently. If for no other reason than the Andorian episodes.

>>51959406
This was a pretty good writeup about the pros and cons of Star Wars and Star Trek naval strength. It was painfully ignorant of WH 40K naval strength, which is tremendously capable.

>>51973546
>Actually I was extremely conservative and basically just exploited the superior tactical FTL of Star Trek, then combined it with the Federation's willingness to work with others to achieve a goal, which the Empire shares but the Imperium generally lacks except against an outside, overwhelming force.
>I did not, for example, make use of transporters, and vastly understated the power of Federation weaponry.

My point isn't your knowledge of ST. It's that you have a superficial grasp of Star Wars and 40k.

And as I already pointed out, 40k has both void shields and transporters as well, which is why you were probably wise to shy away from them.

>>51973546
>This is false. Photon torpedoes (and in some scenes, phasers) can be observed being fired while the ships are moving at FTL speeds. Do you want me to start listing scenes, or will you just trust me on this one?

The weapons can be FIRED at warp. That doesn't mean that the weapon itself travels FTL, just that by story contrivance the weapon benefits from the ship's FTL when in use. Phasers in numerous episodes are shown moving far more slowly than light, especially hand phasers. In both Timescape (TNG) and Wink of an Eye (TOS) you had cases where hyper-accelerated but not FTL crewmen were able to watch phaser beams move and casually step out of the way. For example.

Each of those scenes where they're firing at warp that you're about to quote to me are... wait for it... chase scenes. In nearly every battle of maneuver, the ships are at impulse power and only enter warp to try to depart.

You're stealing a base trying to say that firing a weapon at warp means that the weapon itself is FTL. This is a good example of taking a very generous read of ST lore and trying to play it against a superficial understanding of 40k or SW.

>>51967500

Compared to the speed of light, obviously, which is what Lance weapons (let alone anything else) move at

>>51973694

I saw both, but you can't tell me that DS9 or Enterprise are the heart of Star Trek. Ron Moore and Rick Berman came out and said that they were transforming Star Trek in ways that Gene Roddenberry would never have approved.

You say shit like this and it's clear that other than "rah rah Star Trek" you have nothing to say.

>>51973935
>The weapons can be FIRED at warp. That doesn't mean that the weapon itself travels FTL

Wh - yes it does! The photon torpedoes are fired at warp at other targets traveling at warp in multiple scenes and are clearly, themselves, FTL weapons. If the photon torpedoes couldn't travel at warp then as soon as they left the torpedo tube - and the warp bubble - they would drop back to sublight speeds and thereby not be able to be used in the scenes they are blatantly used in.

Right, you need examples.

>"Q Who" (TNG)
The Enterprise fires torpedoes at a pursuring Borg cube; and the Borg cube itself fires an energy weapon forwards at the Enterprise. Both are traveling at warp speed at the time.

>"The Emmisary" (TNG)
A starbase fires a photon torpedo which travels at high warp in order for the Enterprise to be able to pick it up quickly. The torpedo had its explosives removed in order to contain the ambassador K'Ehleyr rather than blow up, but nothing is mentioned of a torpedo traveling at warp being unusual.

>"Equinox" (VOY)
And here's actual video of warp speed combat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mxPkYsyrI

The above scene begins with Voyager and Equinox both at warp (you can tell because of the star-stretching effect, which is only done for warp scenes...and the fact that the ships are explicitly at warp in the episode if you care to watch the previous few moments on NetFlix or something). While you might be able to argue that the Equinox is firing backwards and therefore the torpedoes are basically "falling" into Voyager, that doesn't pan out for when Voyager fires back. The torpedoes MUST be capable of FTL travel themselves.

I could go on, and on, and on and on and on, if you want, though I really don't want to since I'm pretty sure the video above makes the point clear. The point is that photon torpedoes are consistently shown to be capable of FTL speeds.

>chase scenes

That changes nothing about whether or not photon torpedoes are FTL weapons.

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>>51973656

Meh. The "sexy" costumes on ST worked out pretty well, but the actual day to day uniforms look awful.

I don't need tacticool pockets everywhere, but Star Wars uniforms look military enough and practical enough. Believable.

40k uniforms are grossly impractical, at least for the bridge crew, but they're brilliantly designed and make sense in the context of the setting. And they're INTERESTING. Visually, I mean.

Star Trek uniforms had good contrast with the sound stage backdrops and they were cheap enough not to blow the costume budget. In TOS, they were easy on the eyes when women wore the miniskirt version (and here's one area where I really DO applaud DS9: putting jadzia in a TOS uniform!)

>>51959406
>not using the teleportarium to lightning strike your marines into the enemy ships

>>51974123
I don't care about what Gene Roddenberry would or would not have approved of. If he'd had his way, there would be no Star Trek VI, my favorite of the bunch. Roddenberry created a great thing, but he was by no means necessarily the best thing for it.

I care about what the current IP holders say is canon. That's why I'm strictly limiting myself to live-action TV and movies for Star Trek, and not bringing up novels or technical manuals.

>>51967983
There are 5201 solar systems connected to the gate network, another 230 unconnected systems (primarily the Jove empire, but also the testing constellation of UUA-F4), and 2590 systems that are varying degrees of accessible via unstable wormholes, for a total of 7,791 playable systems and 8,021 total systems.

>>51974249
WH40K lacks FTL sensors. They can't target the Enterprise accurately, because it's not where they see it.

>>51974279
Does the Enterprise have FTL weapons?

>>51973741

You spelled "mirror universe" wrong.

I rather liked Enterprise, and once I got beyond the fact that it was a blatant ripoff of Babylon 5, I appreciated DS9 as well. In many ways, Star Trek would have been a better setting if it had started off the with the world we saw in Enterprise. But the reality is that the original show was very good FOR ITS TIME, and won a devoted fanbase of people who clap for tinkerbell every time-- which in an era of aging hippies was quite a lot of people-- but most importantly ST is important because it was the first franchise to break through. It (and 2001) made Star Wars and other settings possible.

What he's trying to do is claim that the spinoff of the spinoff, and its successor, is the heart of the canon. When clearly the heart and soul of the show is TOS and TNG.

>>51974300
Yes. Photon torpedoes. As I've mentioned. At great length.

Sometimes phasers, too, when the FX department makes animation errors.

>>51974337
40K is fucked.

>>51974348
>40K is fucked.
I mean the Imperium. The Imperium is fucked.

>>51974332
Uh, "he" and me are the game guy. And I'm not making any claims about what is and isn't the "heart" of the canon because I don't care about the "heart" of the canon, I just care about canon, period.

And what is and isn't canon isn't a call you or I get to make. That would be CBS. They're the IP holders, so they get to declare what is and isn't canon. At the moment, this means, for the Prime timeline:

- TOS
- TNG
- DS9
- VOY
- ENT
- Movies 1 thru 10

I also mentioned Red Matter upthread when listing things in Star Trek that can destroy planets, but I'm willing to drop it if you like.

>>51974216

Q Who was a chase scene. You're illustrating my point when you cite that. As I said, you're assuming because the weapon can be used in warp that it's an FTL weapon in itself.

The probe that Worf's chick was placed in for Emissary was the SIZE of a torpedo. But it was a probe. That was my recollection and I just looked it up on STMA because I knew you'd use that. It was a class 8 probe.

>citing Voyager for any reason, ever

I notice that you didn't have an answer for either of my citations, so can you just concede this? Or are you going to give me forty more extrapolations?

>>51974249

He won't accept that, because he's "generously" not including teleportation because somehow that's nice of him.

>>51974300

He's certainly trying to make us think so.

>>51974491
>he's certainly trying to make us think so
for what reason
40k ships aren't even in realspace anymore when they utilize FTL

i bet he thinks a warp speed strike from the enterprise is somehow a threat to the millenium falcon while it's in hyperspace

>>51974491
Fine, let's just cut to the chase. Memory Alpha, the Wiki for canon Star Trek material:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Photon_torpedo

>Photon torpedoes were warp-capable tactical matter/antimatter weapons commonly deployed aboard starships and starbases by various organizations.

They are warp-capable, end of discussion.

>citing Voyager for any reason, ever

Just becuase you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not canon. You don't get to make that call, CBS does. Go and join CBS and make a fuss if you want to change that.

Your examples involved phasers, which as I mentioned are not generally accepted as being FTL_capable weapons and their usage as such is generally presumed to be an FX mistake. And regardless has nothing to do with torpedoes.

And again, the fact that the scene in question is a "chase scene" does not change the fact that a ship at warp fired a photon torpedo which exceeded its speed to hit another ship, also traveling at warp. Your distinction is pointless.