How could a person survive a blow with the flail on the head? No helm.

>>51956206
They dodge.

Depends on the setting.

>>51956231
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1meNEIv_Ac

>>51956206
>His buddy dropped it on him while he was sleeping from a foot above him
>Notable injury was still sustained.

>>51956279
I don't see a problem with it, it checks out.

If you can dodge a bullet you can dodge a flail. It's like, 1000 times slower.

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>>51956206
You don't. Ever

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>>51956331

>>51956342
> Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster

>>51956206
Magic, bitches.
To be precise, magical shielding.

>>51956331
>>51956347
Is that real?

>>51956206
Glancing blow. Scrapes their skin badly but doesn't catch. They lose brain cells but don't die.

Blow with no power to it. The enemy wielding the flail slams it into the wall, and the guy tries to attack. Enemy pulls it out and catches the guy on the head on the backswing but it's not going at full force.

Flail is being swung underwater.

Person is using magic.

Person is undead.

Flail is made of papier-mache.

Person is wolverine.

>>51956342
>chain hits
>skull caves

I don't know much about physics and shit, but something doesn't seem right.

>>51956408
People have survived worse injuries, but those are probably birth defects.

>>51956206
Depends on how fast the flail's head is moving. Either way, flails are fake.
How could a person survive a trip to the iron maiden? No armor.

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>>51956206

Afro?

>>51956555
>How could a person survive a trip to the iron maiden? No armor.

be really dehydrated so you don't leak when you're peirced.
be too skinny to get poked by the spikes
be covered in dimples exactly positioned to accept all the spikes into them without causing damage.

>>51956619
What if you are fat?

>>51956658
You're rich in dem times

glancing blow only rattles brain

>>51956589
sauce

>>51956658
Then your CON bonus to HP means you'll survive for a few more rounds.

>>51956463
have you ever been hit with a chain? to the head? Certain chains are heavy as fuck, thats why /fit/izens wear them around the waist and do dips

>>51956408
You can survive, almost fully functional, with half a brain.
The vast majority of "you" is on the side of the brain opposite you dominant hand (i.e. the side of the brain that controls your dominant hand).
On an interesting side-note, it's well documented that people with damaged corpus callosum (the connection between the two halves of the brain) have had the non-dominant half of their body act methodically, but independently of their dominant half.
On another interesting side-note, the side of your brain that controls your dominant hand is also the side of your brain that controls your mouth (left half of the brain for right-handed people, right half for lefties).

>>51956679
this. you're the guy hiring people to dodge spikes and hobgoblins.

>>51956693
black mirror

episode in question is how a woman utterly fails to appreciate a robo-husbandu replacement of her dead husband

a skull malformed in just the right way to catch the flail without damage on cushiony folds of scar tissue

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What's the ideal length of the chain and handle? And why are some flails called morningstars?

>>51957325
Te occidam!

>>51957325
The morningstar, as I understood it was a mace or flail with the spiky ball for a head.

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>>51957299

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>>51957325
>What's the ideal length of the chain and handle?

Flails are fucking stupid and were barely used in history.

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>>51957615
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over using dirty peasants to destroy everyone so hard people refused to fight me anymore.

I also can't hear you over the drums they made out of my skin.

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>>51957650
>fuck Popes
>Fuck the Germans too

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>>51957615

Well fuck you too then.

>>51957693
>When you wonder how would history have changed if Joan hadn't been captured and instead got destroyed by the Hussites

1. They have enough HP so it just bounces off (if you're using meat points) or it doesn't actually fully hit them in the head (thematic HP).
2. The flail just barely clipped the forehead, bounding off the thick bone and causing a concussion at minimum.
3. The person is wolverine or someone with metal bones.
4. The person is someone with supernatural durability.
5. The person swinging the flail fucked up and hit them with the handle part.
6. The flail wasn't going that fast.
7. The flail is made out of very light materials or very fragile materials.
8. The person is knocked unconscious and would die shortly after from internal bleeding, but the cleric cast cure critical wounds so he recovers.

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>>51957790
Glorious French tears, Bohemia would still be exhausted after the wars and still may have fallen under the sway of Austria

>>51957325
You should be able to grip it in a place where it hand strike your hands (after rebounding funny, or whatever else might happen).
c >>51957519

>>51956463
You'll notice the slight lag. The head of the flail swings around and impacts the back of the skull, which is also why that's the area that most noticeably deforms.

>>51957325
>And why are some flails called morningstars?
Just a confusion in terminology.

Morningstars are wooden clubs with metal spikes in the head.

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>>51959551
Getting hit with a solid shot with a flail or morning star without a helmet (And usually with one too) is going to take you out of the fight, even if it doesn't kill you. Basic physics dictate at the very least, you'll you'll be concussed, and will most likely suffer a depressed cranial fracture with internal hemorrhaging. And that is just a hardwood head. If we add metal banding, spikes etc, you're in even worse shape.

That said, they are not accurate weapons, and not ever a first choice. Even peasants would take spears and polarms when they could.

>>51957325
Ball and chain flail never existed and is stupid before you're going to rip your own arm off the first time you miss, or hit yourself in the chest with it and die.

Actual flail was the above posted long stick with a cylindrical doodad on the end, and is a repurposed farming implement. Nunchuks are the same thing.

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>>51959884
>Ball and chain flail never existed

Unfortunately, you're wrong. We have plenty of documentation and extant examples.

Bellifortis of Konrad Kyeser, MS.1360

>>51957519

Depends on the grain being flailed - you use long chains with heavier grains like wheet, while using smaller flails with rice.

Also, according to wikipedia the only legal way to harvest wild rice in missouri is in a canoe using a traditional wooden rice flail.

>>51959884
>Ball and chain flail never existed and is stupid
Meme-tier history, on par with 20-pound blunt-club euro swords, and razor sharp katanas.

>>51957325
>And why are some flails called morningstars?
A ball with pointy bits looks like the common graphical interpretation of the sun, or the "morning star".

>>51959936
Why does "ye olde art" look so bad? Were they more so like rush drops to get across the point that made them look that way? Or were the people drawing them just not adept at art?

>>51960078
Please tell me you aren't really this dumb. Please, anon. I couldn't take it if even /tg/ had fallen so low.

Tell me, you fuck! Tell me you're just memeing.

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>>51956206
>THERE IS NO HISTORICAL RECORD OF FLAILS BEING USED IN COMBAT

>>51960078
>why were automobiles in the 1800s so slow and shitty? were they just rush jobs to get something on the roads that made them that way? or were the people making them just inept mechanics?

>>51960093
>>51960093
Yes, and no. Maybe I'm just overthinking it. Pardon me for my ignorance.

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>>51960036
Are you that insecure that katana existence as one of the strongest slashing weapon trigger you?

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>>51960147
I seriously want to challenge this man to an academic debate, followed by judicial combat.

>>51960017
>the only legal way to harvest wild rice in missouri is in a canoe using a traditional wooden rice flail.
T h e U n i o n W a s B e h i n d T h i s

>>51960225
are those guys getting ambushed while removing or donning armor? suck.

>>51960225
I have the sudden urge to play Jade empire

>>51956206
depends on where it hits and how hard. if it doesn't cave in the skull right at the crown or the temple or another plate joint the blow itself would technically glance off though at varying degrees and they wouldn't take the full force of the swing. The jaw would also be survivable but obviously unavoidably painful and bone crushing.

>>51956463
the chain impacting it's what did it, the chain hit, laid over, and when the ball came down it pulled the chain taught and into the skull, like a rubberband sting but with several pounds of solid metal doing the stinging and the full momentum of the moving ball end doing the snapping

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>>51960225
You've got his name and it's easy to find out the general area he lives in.
It wouldn't be hard to look up his address and phone number.

>>51960575
Logged in to upvote this.

>>51960078
They hadn't invented perspective yet.
Also the goal was to illustrate important story points, not to make accurate 1:1 representations of real life.

>>51961416
You're thinking of Egyptian art. European art didn't place great value on details, but it wasn't trying to be symbolic and abstract.

>>51956463
The chain hit which compressed the ballistics gel at the base, then the ball swung around

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>>51957325
I don't think there's an exact science, but good rule of thumb is 'not long enough to hit your hand or easily whack yourself in the face with.' So always shorter than your handle, half the length probably being the safest maximum you could get.

>>51962192
Technically that's not fully true - Egyptian art wasn't even focused on telling a story as much as it was preserving a record, usually of a person and their deeds. And their art was stiff and strict because they were concerned about keeping to a rigorous form - they show with art of animals that they can easily create art of things from life that actually look realistic.

It depends somewhat on the medium or reason behind it, but usually medieval European art was religious in nature, and was like the other anon said, mainly just to illustrate important story points - or even to actually be abstract. I remember there was a sect of monks that put great emphasis on carving and painting their churches with all sorts of exotic and out-there designs, with fantastical beasts and scrollwork. And there was some other group of monks that absolutely hated that shit and went out of their way to make things plain as possible, saying the other guys were distracting themselves from God.

Perspective had existed in Roman times, especially in wall frescos or carvings, but the knowledge behind it had been lost/wasn't considered as important due to changing artistic traditions (influence from Celts, 'simplification' of Roman art in the later years of the empire due to costs, etc). It wasn't until about the 13th century that you really start seeing it again in Italy in paints in churches.

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>>51959627
damn carl insulting my glorious plumes

>>51960078
"art" as we know it didn't existed back then, at that time art was only meant to illustrate something, so all they cared for when drawing was that it was just enought to be understandable with the right explanation, those illustrations are not meant to be seen alone, they always come with some text or where used by someone to explain some idea/tell some story

>>51956342
his neck mussels were too weak

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>>51956206
Time for a real life story.

A schoolmate of mine was one of the weirdest people I've ever met. Not in a nerdy way, but actually one of a kind in a fucked up way. He was seemingly unable to experience any emotions at all except for different shades of happiness and bliss. Got a bad mark? Put on a huge smile. Accidentally hit his head on an iron bar? Break into jolly laughter. He was also extremely destructive, like a four year old kid. Anything he got his hands on, he needed to fiddle with, which usually resulted in damage of some sort. And finally, he was an utter psychopath. He never felt the slightest bit of remorse for all the destruction he caused and all the pain he casually inflicted on people. When others demanded some sort of an apology, he laughed and patted them on the back.

Unsurprisingly, he was extremely into historical reenactment. Not the faggy kind where you put a lot of work into creating historically accurate renaissance costumes and prance around in them. No, he liked the kind of reenactment where you dress in crudely cobbled together historically inaccurate armour and beat the shit out of each other with blunt swords.

So, on his first day in a reenactment club, he walked in and immediately saw a spiky ball flail just like in OP's picture. Needless to say, he instantly grabbed it and tried swinging it around. The guy who gave him a guided tour around the facility was understandably a bit shocked. He asked my schoolmate to put the combat flail back and offered him a training flail which used a tennis ball stuffed with sand as a replacement for the spiky ball. But my schoolmate casually dismissed him and continued to swing the flail around with growing confidence. The guide could not even take the weapon back by force, because he was afraid to approach a flail swinging maniac. But this didn't save him, as my classmate accidentally bashed him in the head anyway, giving him a bad concussion.

He went on to become a dentist, by the way.

>>51957835
Pretty sure the French would just bulldozer right over Bohemia. Don't fuck with the medieval French. They wreck everyone.

>>51960078
Because the pictures you're referring to were drawn not by professional artists, but by monks.

>>51963314
what happened to them?

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>>51963314
Except angry Swiss cow herders. Those are the French kryptonite.

nigga just get some extra HP. A flail does just 1d8 damage, go to the gym, grow up some levels

>>51959627
I remember that there was some research in our HEMA group about flail techniques, but it was pretty hard because all the manuals were like
>pic 1.: two guys standing in some pose
>pic 2.: one guy is on the ground with a bleeding head wound

So step 1.5 is ???

>>51960225
Those paintings are about as historically accurate as action movies.

Not saying you are wrong, just thought I'd point it out.

>>51963564
Action movies still tend to feature prop guns that are modeled after the real ones.

>>51956375

Mah nigga.

Right, but going by that standard, you'd think the Pancor Jackhammer was a common weapon.

>>51959936

>incoming angry Lindy Beige rant

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>>51960078

Monks who drew those old drawings are just like the modern anime industry. Meaning it's full of people who have no idea how anatomy works or the outside world in general.

>>51963646
I think those are political cartoons.

>>51963646
>Implying these aren't all memes that were slowly circulating the great parchment-net, manually penned by the tiny segment of society that had the ability, the time, and the sick desire to do it.
>Basically 4chan

Pretty much all of these images have very strong and obvious allegorical subtext.

>>51963604

If only, I've had a hardon for that since fallout 2.

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>>51960078
Because the pictures in question are FUCKING TINY. Manuscript miniatures are in fact, fucking miniscule and made with primitive pens and inks that make detail a pain in the ass. That said, there is plenty of good high medieval art.

>>51960225
He's actually right. To my knowledge there is no surviving flail discovered in a battlefield dig-site.

>>51963804

I'll never understand why they choose such ridiculous facial expressions in these things.

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>>51963821
Humor. Monks and the later professional artist were a raunchy and bored bunch with little free time from the consuming nature of their job. For example if a monk cocked up a letter while writing, he would then draw a figure using a crane to drop the right letter over the wrong one, while another man dragged the wrong letter away.

>>51963869
It's not humour, it's more or less a faithful rendition from the Romance of Alexander. It was pretty weird.

>>51963314
>Don't fuck with the medieval French. They wreck everyone.
>a wild Edward The Black Prince appears

>>51963810
>Flail is so robust that no one using them ever died in medieval warfare

Amazing.

>>51963554
erase time

>>51963314
And the Hussites perfected a style of warfare that was effective at murdering stupid angry assholes trying to bulldoze over them.

>>51963314
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs
>everyone

>inb4 the French won the war
It's still no excuse for losing against flemish farmers

>>51956413
/thread. Use your goddamn imagination OP.

>>51956206
He can survive the blow if the flail sucks

>>51965808
>They lost one battle, what a huge shame
Reminder that Crecy was only lost after 15 charges, and that the french cavalry was actually doing frontal charges on swiss pikes at Marignano. Meanwhile the english could barely handle a bunch of border scottish bandits.

>>51957081
>2017
>Still thinks the right/left brain hypothesis is supported by science

>>51963620
don't even fucking say it

>>51960225
there is no way in hell anyone would use a flail on horseback.

>>51963869
What the hell is this? A scene from Revelations or something?

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>>51965624

>>51966386
The single handed hammer, mace, and (more rarely) flail are all used primarily from horseback. They're short, but the perfect distance to reach down and crush skulls, or across to another knight on horseback while having your other hand free to hold the reigns.

A common misconception of short flails is that they're hard to control, but the reality is that the chain is short enough and the human mind capable enough to maneuver them just fine. Spend some years studying swordsmanship and then pick up a flail and you'll understand. They lack some of the finesse and precise control of a rigid weapon but they're not stupid.

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>>51960598
I highly doubt he'd cooperate.

>>51963202
DON'T FUCKING HATE ON MY PLUMES, CARL.

>>51963564
The point is, they are valid documentation for a weapon we KNOW existed and was used, for having existed at least as early as the art itself.

>>51963620
Please dont.

>>51963810
One handed flails tended to be weapons of mounted professionals. We have plenty surviving examples that are obvious weapons of the well monied. Pic related, Military Flail, 16th century German at The Metropolitan Museum of Art.

>>51966386
...Except all the art and written documentation proves they did. See >>51966758

>>51968137
>One handed flails tended to be weapons of mounted professionals. We have plenty surviving examples that are obvious weapons of the well monied. Pic related, Military Flail, 16th century German at The Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Aren't those just fakes?

>>51968591
Some are, some are not. Whats more confusing is the composite nature of a few of them. The problem is, the Victorians saw a lot of them in art, and every collector wanted one.

Its the same problem with the Victorians piecing together harnesses, and scrubbing off paint/blueing/gilding because they wanted "an alwhyte suit".

Fuck the 19thC.

>>51968591

Well, we'll have to test them out. If they can cave in someone's skull, then they're a real flail. If they can't, then they're a fake.

>>51963300
this only proves that dentists love pain

>>51956303
jusus christ dude you made me laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1meNEIv_Ac

>>51956206
get hit with the handle

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Would flails make a good self-defense weapon? Assuming they're legal.

>>51970113
No. Just get an estoc or a spear if your house is big enough to us it. You want thrusting power, distance, and defense. By default to use a flail, you need to swing your arm from behind your head, leaving you exposed.

>>51970245
I disagree on the behind your head swing.

As with any close combat weapon, proper form rarely if ever leaves your front exposed at any given time. The flail's mechanic allows you to whip it with a flick of your wrist and your opponent already has a face full of fuck you.

>>51970245
>not wearing a helm, carrying a shield, and using a flail made of a chain and a padlock to defend your home
Its like you want to be home invaded.

>>51970514
I actually have all those things except the flail.

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>>51970245
What is this obsession with spears and thrusting weapons that /tg/ has? They're not the worst weapons, and are simple to learn to use, but they're also rather inflexible in their use, and really meant to be used as part of a mass, not as an individual on individual weapon. And unless it's a short spear, it requires two hands to use - and by that point the reach that's so valuable is barely there. And what are you supposed to do once they get close? All you can do is awkwardly swing, maybe try and use it like a quarterstaff.

You think it'd be better to have a hammer or an axe - something relatively short, but that you can put a lot of power into the swing of, has some flexibility in how you can use it, and looks far more imposing. You could even put a spike on the head so you can still use it as a crude thrusting weapon if the opportunity presents itself.

>>51970663
why would you want something with astrong sswing like a hammer or an axe? It's not like thiefs and rapists come with an armour.a rapier seems the best choice to me. Realatively easy to use, longreach and killy enough for unarmoured opponent.

>>51970663
>t. overweight manlet

>>51970663
Because if somebody does break into my house, I want to be as far as fucking away from them as possible to be safe from a knife, but also be able to turn their belly into a pincushion.

Thrusting swords and spears achieve this. Using a warhammer when you're unarmored against an an unarmored target is just fucking stupid unless it's a very long weapon.

>>51970663
>What is this obsession with spears and thrusting weapons that /tg/ has
Because of people like you underselling the spear, which causes people to hype it up even more in retaliation.

>but they're also rather inflexible in their use
They're pretty flexible. You can attack with the spearhead of course, the shaft, the butt, etc.

>and really meant to be used as part of a mass, not as an individual on individual weapon
Spears were used as an individual weapon. There are different kinds of spears senpai.

> And unless it's a short spear, it requires two hands to use - and by that point the reach that's so valuable is barely there
That just doesn't make any sense. Using one hand on a longsword will buy you some extra reach, sure. How does using two hands on an 6-8 foot spear limit its reach in any significant way?

>nd what are you supposed to do once they get close?
You can choke up on a spear.

> All you can do is awkwardly swing, maybe try and use it like a quarterstaff.
Confirmed for not knowing how to use a spear.

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>>51956408
>Is that real?

Google Image Search is built RIGHT INTO THE GOSH-DARN SITE

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calif-painter-awarded-58-million-in-bar-beating/

>>51970805
Strong swing means you don't have to worry 'did I hit him hard enough to stop him.' And you get a little flexibility with how you can use it - it's not just a simple thrust, but could be a downward swing, a swing from the side, or a crude thrust if you have a point or a hefty enough head to risk it. A rapier probably would be better, since it's actually designed with fighting in alleys or corridors in mind, and even if you're shit with it it has enough of a cutting edge you can swing wildly and do some damage, but I still would never go with a spear or estoc for self defense.

>>51970856
But what if you have corners in your house, instead of just a straight hallway? It's also a bit ungainly to use without knocking shit over, or if you have a low ceiling. Imagine simply trying to work your way around a table and through a doorway, and how much you'll have to move the spear around. It's a lot easier to have something shorter and can be moved around quickly - if not a hammer or an axe, which you might already have in a toolshed, then a crude club or a long knife.

If you just want to be far away from whoever's breaking in, that's where I'd just invest in a gun or something else with some range, because I can still fire a pistol once the guy who broke in is too close for me to feasibly thrust with a spear.

>>51961416
>They hadn't invented perspective yet.

The Japanese had invented perspective several centuries prior to the spread of its understanding in Europe.

>>51970879
I admit, I am tired of people treating the spear like the best fucking weapon ever, so that's probably influencing my argument. But it still was a weapon that was prominent because it was cheap to make and easy to learn to use - pointy end out - for most of its history, even in rigorous warrior cultures instead of crude peasant levies most people bash the spear with.

How is attacking with the spearhead, shaft, and butt not like using a quarter staff? At a range, sure, it's not like that, but when the guy is real close to you, you're not going to keep pointing it out at him while he's maneuvered or under it.

I admit, I fucked up there - I was thinking like a Iklwa when I said short spear, something that's more around two or three feet. A six or eight foot spear still seems less feasible to carry around and bring to bear.

Yeah, you can choke up on a spear. My bad. But it'd still be a lot easier to have a shorter weapon at that point.

>>51963869
>For example if a monk cocked up a letter while writing, he would then draw a figure using a crane to drop the right letter over the wrong one, while another man dragged the wrong letter away.

Pics?

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>>51956206
>No helm.

>>51956589
Well, my boner is dead.

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>>51971070
>At a range, sure, it's not like that, but when the guy is real close to you, you're not going to keep pointing it out at him while he's maneuvered or under it.

>don't keep the most threatening part of the weapon pointed at the guy

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>>51971838
The fuck is up with this guy?

>>51971886
it's his safespace.

>>51971886
Snake got stuck in the past

>>51971886
I imagine this kind of shit happens in literally every fight that has occurred in human history. There's only so much you can command of a man when you're telling him to go out and kill other people.
>>51957693
there's a guy throwing a rock, must have forgot to bring his crossbow and they didn't want to turn the march around

>>51957731
this man did 100 pushups every day since he was 12 so that in the off chance he is conscripted and forced to charge headfirst a wall of spear he will be able to grab the spear right before it stabs him in the face. He probably died 1 to 2 minutes later but someone saw his beautiful act of bravery and rumors of his feat of heroism were immortalized.

>>51957835
Carl is decided to be such an asshole and brought his sword to the gun wall

>>51963804
I love how everyone participating is really smug and smarmy about the whole ordeal

>>51963869
notice the badass anime sword the guy in the red coat is using. I bet he spent like half his wife's dowry on that thing.

>>51971886
Catches arrows.

>>51972065
>I love how everyone participating is really smug and smarmy about the whole ordeal
They aren't smug, faces used to look like that.
Expressions are actually a recent adaptation, it started being selected for shortly after the invention of Poker.

>>51963646
>those drawings
>monks

Half of them have visible Arabic writing.

>>51971488
The implication was that he'd gotten around or under the shaft, and for whatever reason you hadn't pulled it back to keep the tip pointing at him. Guy is probably thinking pikes rather than spears.

>>51968137
Dont doubt his cooperation, just try

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>>51971886

>>51973143
I guess he's a real basket case.

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>>51973143

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>>51956375

>>51971886
METAL GEAR?

>>51956463
the ball hit the back of its head, but a chain on a stick would still fuck you up if its a decent gauge chain.

>>51957325
the only historical examples of flails we have are quite short chained, only 1,2, or 3 links, (or that one flail they found with a 4 foot chain that they are pretty sure was not used in battle)

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>>51974900

>>51971886

It is a protection equipment. Youtube have a vid on this.

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>>51956206
Pic related is the flail.

Or a pussy hit.

>>51960225
For the combat dress as a tercio and make him piss himself in fear when you poke him with a pike

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>>51970514
Why not helm, armour and a gun?
>your kingdom does not even allow the ownership of automatic weapons for defense of home and hearth
>laughingmaidens.png

>>51971033
Japanese perspective folded one thousand times