Arms and Armor thread

File: 600664 BecDeCorbin_03_LRG.jpg (44KB, 364x800px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 364x800px

>>51952758

>>51952764
My esteemed gentleman

File: 39954-1-1308806678.jpg (72KB, 1465x405px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 1465x405px

>>51952758
I'm running a modern fantasy, so there's coilgun powered by electrical runestone.

File: almost a sword.jpg (219KB, 687x1024px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 687x1024px

>>51952758

File: 13th-century-bar-mace-2329-p.jpg (96KB, 852x852px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 852x852px

Best Weapon.

>>51956437

How do you even forge those? Some sort of 'X' shaped fullering tool?

>>51956437
I'm trying to imagine the first time someone with a sword decided to fight someone with this.

>>51956591
I would imagine you run slits halfway up two bars,
interlock the bars at the slits,
then weld.

File: hookswords.jpg (13KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 400x400px

been fascinated by these since i first played mortal kombat 3

>>51956437
Can you get me a reference for this?
I really want to use it in BON and IMCF

File: p1.jpg (75KB, 528x960px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 528x960px

>>51956437
Quickly phased out of use in the timeline due to being a shitty, expensive and inefficient design. Most extant examples have a pronounced curve or bend due to the crappy geometry.

>>51956591
As >>51957228 says, forge welding. Nothing as fancy and interlocking joins though.

>>51956686
Just like fighting a man with any mace.

>>51957925
Maciejowski bible, but don't bother. To meet with IMC/ACL weight rules, its even more useless, expensive and fragile than it was in real life. You are better off just using a traditional mace or axe. Pic related, my ACL mace.

Which nation/local team do you fight?

Gropey, mind stepping into this (>>51956206) thread?

>>51959551
Done.

File: 0001949_traditional-shaolin-monk-spade-stainless-steel.jpg (13KB, 600x427px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 600x427px

How does this weapon even work? You can't really cut things with the axe end.

File: 800px-Torimono_sandogu_%28tools_for_capturing_criminals%29.jpg (172KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 800x800px

>>51960826
It's a large weaponized shovel. Use your imagination.

Meteor hammer.

File: BeninSword111.jpg (48KB, 200x600px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 200x600px

I love african meme weapons.

File: spurdo.png (9KB, 528x404px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 528x404px

>>51961476
benin :DDDD

>>51958738
From NZ, Steel thorns we call ourselves

File: 16729380_10155022314988559_1723304270113128935_n.jpg (81KB, 718x463px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 718x463px

>>51958738
I mainly use a falchion and punch shield, we use ball maces a lot.
I was thinking of using it as a lever for grappling more than anything.

Picture of me and my team. (genuinely not sure which one I am)

>>51956591
>>51957228
The actual answer is "proper equipment". Welding isn't necessary.

>>51961926
>genuinely not sure which one I am
Consult a the rapist.

File: barmace1c.jpg (33KB, 600x229px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 600x229px

>>51961926
Hot damn. I mostly run flanged mace and punch shield, or polearm myself. I don't recognize the colors. I wanna say maybe an Aussie team?

>I was thinking of using it as a lever for grappling more than anything.
Still a waste with all of our diameter and weight regs. If you just want a lever-stick, go with a sheathed maced, AKA: Smash-stick. Pic related.

>>51962144
No, the proper answer is forge welding. All of extant ones are flanges that have been forge welded together.

>>51962195
We have those, we call them dildo maces.
The bar mace is pretty tho, might make one for myself.
NZ team, captain is a blacksmith and we are contracted to fight for him in exchange for armour. Its why we are all matchy matchy

File: chidorigane.png (205KB, 600x540px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 600x540px

>Weapons you want to use in games edition.
I somewhat often make a character solely based around some obscure weapon or armor piece I want to use.

File: therionarms_c1189_original1.jpg (57KB, 650x255px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 650x255px

>>51962223
>NZ
Ah, so not convicts. My apologies.

>dildo maces
Funny, thats what we call ball-headed maces.

>The bar mace is pretty tho, might make one for myself
Well, whatever floats your boat. I would suggest you make yourself a historically accurate one though. It would be a shame to waste the work on something that just doesn't work under our rules.

You hoping to fight international this year?

>>51962255
Wasn't going to use the bar mace for combat, as you said too fragile. Think it just looks pretty.

I was hoping to but its just not a reality for a poor student whose missus is currently in hospital. Would of been a good year to go, Denmark or Spain(purely because of the arena) would of been fun. One of the downsides of being down under down under is the travel cost.

>>51962284
>Travel costs

I know that pain. Educator salaries here in the US are not exactly good.

Hope your lady recovers quickly.

>>51962331
Thank you, If I ever got to an international tournament ill be the one shouting PEPE with visible autism.

File: 1381531829291.png (107KB, 1050x1350px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 1050x1350px

>>51962359
I will be the one with the /tg/ arms on my belt as a favour, which in itself is visible autism.

File: Thinktank_Birmingham_-_object_1885S00224(1).jpg (62KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 1024x768px

I've been realizing lately how sexy stilettos are. Pity they'd be of little use in a campaign, unless I'm finishing off a lot of armored guys, or being a sneaky stabby type.

>>51962399
Hope We can violently hug at some point fellow fa/tg/uy

File: chinesebronzesword.jpg (42KB, 800x453px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 800x453px

>>51954256
Hnnnng!

Best sword.

>>51962485
I hope so, but of course, I will try my best to be the best violent hugger, as you should too.

BotN: Its a cuddle party with weapons.

>>51962618
Always training, putting a pell in my backyard was the best idea ive ever had.

File: Mammen Axe.jpg (25KB, 500x376px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 500x376px

>>51952758

File: 1451299956868.jpg (84KB, 497x720px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 497x720px

Don't care how unrealistic it is, two-handed maces get me rock hard.

>>51952764
3.pf has this, but like most of the other vanilla weapons it's horrible

>>51960826
You don't cut, you stab and disarm

File: 11d58e96f077d726554c0d704ca468f6.jpg (158KB, 736x684px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 736x684px

>>51964963
Yuge maces were a thing. Not too common, but they did exist.

File: chakrams_xena.jpg (32KB, 570x345px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 570x345px

>>51952758
I would also go with the kanabo, then pic related.

File: 1379380125119.jpg (714KB, 1360x1850px) Image search: [Google]

714KB, 1360x1850px

>>51952758

File: Bar Mace.jpg (28KB, 800x314px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 800x314px

>>51957228
>>51958738

The one original of these is not welded - reproductions are.

the original has a lot of profile taper in the sections. my suspicion from having looked at in in detail is that it was drawn out as a square bar, then swaged with fullering tools on each face, so it went from [ ] to ) ( and from there, to a >< shape, and then on the second set of sides, to a X shape. the edges of each flange were then drawn out a little, tapering them in the process. those edges closer to the hilt were less pronounced in their tapering, which also helps with rigidity, before it transitions into a tanged bar around the hilt. a conventional pommel forging is peined to the end, and the opposite end was punch-cut back an inch, and the central stalk forgeworked into a finial with a few dozen strikes with just a bit of grinding - you can still see the remnants of the "X" in the very tip. (see pic)
(the other possibility being that the tip finial was a later addidtion, if one or more flange ends had been cracked off. )

Hard work, but pretty straightforward, especially with a team of two strikers, and a pair of dies,

>>51956389
>solution to all polearm vs. swords shitposting.jpg

File: 40-fortitude.jpg (60KB, 320x681px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 320x681px

>>51957925
Some old artwork from god knows where.

>>51958738
>Maciejowski bible

A bar mace? Do you remember where exactly? I can't recall seeing any, and it seems a tad early.

>>51960826
When it comes to weapons that seem to be wielded mostly be "martial artists" it's quite possible that it exists more to be exotic and attention-grabbing during exhibitions than to be useful in a fight.

>>51956437
Simple, brutal, effective. I love it.

>>51961926
>visored barbutes
Unhistorical but GOAT

File: w13nmkl.jpg (374KB, 1633x1225px) Image search: [Google]

374KB, 1633x1225px

>>51965229

Can't go wrong with hammers.

>>51965276
Visored bascinets are totally a thing, anon.

The english wore them for decades.

File: 1485907314829.jpg (90KB, 640x960px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 640x960px

>>51965381
I think he's specifically referring to this type of visor.

>>51965381
>Visored bascinets are totally a thing, anon.
I know, that's why I didn't say bascinet but barbute. The bascinet has a totally different shape of both the crown and the visor -- in the case of the crown, either very peaked or a rounded backward slope. Similarly the hounskull visor is totally characteristic and not at all what we see in the pic I replied to, as >>51965475 says.

Visored barbutes are still GOAT though.

File: bill-guisarme-fauchard-glaive-voulge-bardiche-de-corbin.jpg (31KB, 855x187px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 855x187px

>>51952758
Pole weapons are my fetish

File: ki0b2Hq.jpg (183KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 600x800px

So not sure whether it is better to ask here or /k( /k is mostly modenr weapons isn't it?) but would any of you gents knwo where I can get a good halberd?

File: sh1020.jpg (10KB, 650x309px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 650x309px

>>51952758
I wanted to make a Shinto Buddhist warrior Monk in 5e, but our campaign started before the release of the Kensei.

The GM and I had discussed fluffing a Glaive as a Naginata, but I ended up being quite happy with my quarterstaff and fists.

File: ph-1.jpg (17KB, 640x427px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 640x427px

>>51965040
I wouldn't give this picture as an example, to be honest - it's from the Shahnama, and the guy wielding it wrestles demons and shit.

But I have seen some real examples, even that ox-head mace, on antique sites (not sure how big they were, though).

>>51967985
http://kultofathena.com/spears.asp

They've got a few halberds in there

>>51960826
It's used to keep animals away by jabbing at their throats.

>>51965040
The fuck? Is that fucking nyarlathotep on the right?

File: FB_IMG_1483725123121.jpg (123KB, 748x1024px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 748x1024px

>>51962629
$4 for a 7 foot tall 4x4, and $2 for several meters of jute rope. Hours of fun!

>>51964963
There is sparce documentation for them, but they do have SOME record in art. I know there is at least one extant example, but its obviously a parade piece. Pic related.

>>51965097
That seems like an awful lot of work for such an inefficient design.

>>51965107
>A bar mace? Do you remember where exactly? I can't recall seeing any, and it seems a tad early.

Not personally. Someone posted a pic of it in a HMC/HMB/HCL documentation forum a while back as acceptable evidence for period existence. I could care less at the time, as its a shitty design and not my period.

>>51965381
he said Barbute, not Bascinet.

>>51966783
So you have a picture of this that isn't for ants? I bet you saved from pintrest. You gotta follow the link to the source.

>>51968265
>That seems like an awful lot of work for such an inefficient design.

as opposed to forge-welding two bars? which would have to be made by drawing out two long thin bars, then slotted which would requite first a slitting punch, constantly cooling the punch to avoid overheating it, then using files (which you'd have to make) to file the slot square. then having made the two slots in your two bars of steel, you'd have to get them together, and forgeweld the pair into each other, when the steels are not butting up against each other, === like that, but a T with no support, so the edges would deform?

and then having forgewelded it all together, having to then do all the hammer-work to taper them you'd have to if you just used swages to forge out the ) ( shapes, then the X, all of which would be done without all the extra risk of forgewelds which are asking to fail if you get a little inclusion?

No. Forging it is by FAR the more efficient production method when you dont have modern welding processes to apply to it.


You could braze it. but that would be clearly visible on the original. And of course, you could just make a haft and flanged mace with brazed flanges... which is more efficient. And guess which one survived and was used more in the 15th C? exactly.

>>51968650

>which would have to be made by drawing out two long thin bars

Far easier than fullering a solid square stock.

>then slotted which would requite first a slitting punch

Yes, than any good weaponsmith would have.

>constantly cooling the punch to avoid overheating it,

...Like any tool while hot working

>then using files (which you'd have to make) to file the slot square

Again, like a professional smith would have and be able to do easily.

>you'd have to get them together, and forgeweld the pair into each other, when the steels are not butting up against each other, === like that, but a T with no support, so the edges would deform?

You act like all four flanges would be done at once, or that the entire flange would be heated through.

>and then having forgewelded it all together, having to then do all the hammer-work to taper them

The pieces would already be tapered.

>you'd have to if you just used swages to forge out the ) ( shapes, then the X, all of which would be done without all the extra risk of forgewelds which are asking to fail if you get a little inclusion?
>No. Forging it is by FAR the more efficient production method when you dont have modern welding processes to apply to it.

You are over estimating the material availability and technological ability of the period of its production. Piecing together is much more material efficient before the mill hammer.

>And of course, you could just make a haft and flanged mace with brazed flanges... which is more efficient. And guess which one survived and was used more in the 15th C? exactly.

But what you're missing here is the bar mace is still a shitty design all the way around, and the design of the bar mace DOES NOT exist in the 15thC. Those are all smaller mace heads.

You're all over the place bro.

>>51968818
>Far easier than fullering a solid square stock.

Bullshit it is.

Draw out with two strikers, you've got far less cooling with a square section than a flat bar, it can be done much faster. fullering itself uses two swages, one in the anvil, one held by the first striker, the second doing the hits. Easy and direct to do.

>slitting punch
>Yes, than any good weaponsmith would have.

And which would require all the hammer-work be done, then start to forgeweld. This is the stuff where it becomes blatantly clear you've never done this sort of work, Gropey... This is not efficient. you're adding extra stages into the process that any competent smith would look at you with utter bewilderment for. You're adding vastly more hassle to the process.

>Again, like a professional smith would have
and would never willingly use for something as wasteful a process, when a file is a valuable steel tool

>You act like all four flanges would be done at once, or that the entire flange would be heated through.
How many times have you forge-welded a shear steel?

I suspect I can rest my case when the answer is "never". to forgeweld like that you need it at the most extreme temperatures the steel can take, clean as hell, because any inclusion is a failure which will come back and bite you on the arse. trying to weld two bars, in a + shape, you would need to fuse each part to its opposite side, or you're simply going to break the weld when you turn it over. and even if you could....

>The pieces would already be tapered.
BULLSHIT.

one section '---' onto the other section: '|' : ---| like that. how does that get welded?
Pressure , down along the bar. ---|
what happens, on a plastic, soft steel bar when you hammer it with pressure to forgeweld? it bends. your flange ends up warped and bent, like: ∽|
or, it splays out. hammering onto a tapering section on the narrow end is never going to work. if you do, you're going to have to rework the entire thing.

File: Scan-151230-0010.jpg (2MB, 5230x1800px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 5230x1800px

>>51968085
I know that's Rostam, but his weapons aren't particularily oversized, Anon. The Persians and the Chinese both did use a few really large maces for real. They weren't common in comparison to regular one-handed ones, but they did exist.

Pic only tangentially related.

>>51969213
You are trying, you really are, but we still have one thing that in your attempts to correct me, you prove your misunderstanding of the technological and metallurgical capabilities of the period.

Inefficient? By modern practice, yes. Yes it is. You are also failing to comprehend the limitations of a 12thC-13thC forge.

Have a nice day.

>You are over estimating the material availability and technological ability of the period of its production. Piecing together is much more material efficient before the mill hammer.

Piecing together, one flat surface against another flat surface? yes.

But this is not a flat surface. these are two series of flanges perpendicular to each other, forming a narrow corner weld. That is HELL to do under the hammer, for a short length, to do it for the full length of the mace would be utter madness, where you need to fuse 4 flanges into each other without it failing miserably.

And lets ignore the fact that it could easily be done with two strikers and a master controlling the swage, or one master controlling the feed, and a single striker, while another holds the swages - are you trying to say they didnt have power hammers?

When did you have that reenactment trepanning?

we've got accounts of them in use in France in 1116. probably 250 years before that mace was made.


>But what you're missing here is the bar mace is still a shitty design all the way around, and the design of the bar mace DOES NOT exist in the 15thC. Those are all smaller mace heads.

Yes. That's what I said.
>"you could just make a haft and flanged mace with brazed flanges which is more efficient. And guess which one survived and was used more in the 15th C?"

i.e: You could just make a normal flanged mace. its more efficient. And that's why you dont see bar maces in the 15th C. because they stopped making them, because brazing flanges to a haft is more efficient.

Do I need to do you a drawing in crayon here?

>>51968265
>That seems like an awful lot of work for such an inefficient design.

The tools were already in use to make other weapons, mainly spears, I think.

>>51969327
>Special swage blocks on a triphammer for a such an uncommon piece

Nigga, you a dumb.

>>51969327
>Powered hammers are mentioned
>That makes them common

File: mt-stupid.png (43KB, 613x481px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 613x481px

>>51969320
Gropey, you're the one who's completely failing to understand the inefficiencies of forge-welding for this sort of work.

You have absolutely no understanding of the technical problems you would face trying to forge weld two sections at right angles to each other.

you have not the slightest clue as to how many more times you're going to have to strike metal to forge out two bars, instead of one, then strike to slot, then do the hard and wasteful work to clean the slotting, then do the striking to try to forgeweld, then do all the striking to clean up the deformation on those bars the forgewelding would do. Then all the striking to put in the tapers,

in contrast, doing it right, you do a slightly longer amount of time striking to draw out once on a square bar, (but less time than doing two flat bars), then do less striking when you swage and fuller, and then you hammer in the tapers. And in theory, if I were to angle the swages right (ie, if I were making lots of these maces), the tapers could be put in in the final swaging pass, and eliminate that stage entirely.

that is half the workload per item. It eliminates the failure point of forgewelding. it takes a fraction of the time to make. it doesnt lose steel by having to do the fitting for forgewelding.
In every single stage, it is the more efficient, easier, cleaner, and tidier way to fabricate that shape.


And unlike you Gropey, I _am_ a smith. A fucking good one. Unlike you, I know that forgewelding it would be pants-on-head retarded. Unlike you, I've spent countless hours sweating in front of a forge, to make stuff in wrought, and in shear steel. and know how they did it.

I know you *think* you know it all, but at times, you're on the dizzying peaks of Mount Stupid and all too keen to talk about stuff you've never actually done.

And this is one of them.

File: 53090023_p0.jpg (715KB, 992x1403px) Image search: [Google]

715KB, 992x1403px

What kind of premodern weapons would and would not work underwater?

I assume any weapon you'd have to swing are out of the question, so in melee you would be limited to thrusting weapons, first and foremost polearms like spears.

Blowguns (and bow and arrow?) would only be good for hunting. Are there any substitutes for rubber in making slings, Hawaiian polespears, or spearguns?

>>51969213
I can think of a dozen reasons for a slitting punch, not the least of which is small eye drawing and hilt work.

>>51969495
Im sorry, but I agree with Gropey here. You're assuming that a bar of square stock is worth wasting on a low class weapon. Welded or brazed, its a pieced together weapon.

File: greek fire thrower.jpg (72KB, 1010x758px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 1010x758px

>>51968265
Hey come on you do a google search you get a bunch of tiny pictures. Don't judge me that for whatever reason there isn't a larger version of that specific pic. I have a larger one, but it's a different design.

File: VBlock&RoundSwage.jpg (24KB, 864x522px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 864x522px

>>51969393
>>Special swage blocks on a triphammer for a such an uncommon piece

I'd clarify: I'm referring to two-piece dies, of the type commonly used for fullering, rather than what's more commonly called a swage block in modern terms, of the sort sold by Pexto or the likes nowadays.

two pieces of metal making a > < shape. - similar to these swage tools in the photo, only a positive V instead of a negative V shape:

if its powered, then you slot the first one over the anvil, second one is held from the side by the assistant, and the hammer strikes while the master holds the working steel, and feeds or flips90 degrees accordingly.

If its hand-forged, one goes on the hardy hole, the second is held by the first assistant, and the striker hits the top of it while the master controls the alignment.

swaging tools and fullering dies have been in use throughout the medieval period, I've handled original ones used for cutlery to make the bolster on blades. They knew the technique perfectly well.

also:
>for a such an uncommon piece

remember, if you're making these, you arent making one. the "lone blacksmith making one weapon at a time" is a myth. These were dedicated factories producing items by the batch. Perhaps it was just one or two such places who made these. but they were certainly not one-offs, any more than the rest of the italian arms industry.

>>51969495
Jamestown/Yorktown foundation. While i'll admit I never did anything as big, I did plenty of forge welding, mostly in hammer faces and axe blades.

I will stand by my point: this is a multipiece weapon, not a solid forge.

>>51969533
Tridents, spears, harpoons... Generally, thrusting weapons with barbs that ignore the greater part of resistance from the water.

If you have a suitably elastic fiber, you could make arguments for spearguns or a sling-spear.

>>51969673
But bar maces are uncommon. We have more documentation of flails than bar maces. They were not ever mass produced.

File: 04EuropeanWheellockPistol17thCentury.jpg (44KB, 700x254px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 700x254px

Wheel lock or flintlock?

File: FB_IMG_1484171022430.jpg (46KB, 528x960px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 528x960px

>>51969738
I own both. Flintlock all day, every day. Simpler, tougher, and less finicky.

Pic related, my fav pistol. English Naval Short pattern.

>>51969615
1.
you assume its a low class weapon.

Most of the indications are that maces were a symbol of social status. there's no reason to assume this is anything less. particularly given its all-steel construction, a considerably more expensive material than the contemporary cast bronze mace-heads of Kiripichnikov Type IV / II with wooden hafts - a far cheaper construction process.
That evidence indicates these bar maces were status symbols.

2.
forgewelding is a really fucking *bad* way to do this. as in, its twice the amount of work, and adds a huge set of failure points - especially with medieval fluxing methods. They knew what they were doing - and that means doing it efficiently. drawing out a billet like that takes less wastage than making it from forgewelded parts - doing it like that involves a huge amount more surface area, and material loss from fire-scale for one thing, in the early shaping stages.
the only forge-welding you'd do would possibly be to assemble a block from a few smaller billets (and that's frankly unlikely by that date. if you're getting your steel from the italian sources, its in far big enough billets by the mid-14th C)

>>51969693
>faces

and that's the point I'm trying to make.
this isnt a face.

a face is a laminar - two layers flat-to-flat, maybe several if its a billet or if its a bit in between the lower carbon body of an axe.

what this is is not a face. its two pieces butted against each other, a T shape. that is the most difficult weld you could ever want to attempt in a forgeweld. Its easy to weld a right angle with a modern inert gas welder, forgewelding that is something entirely different as you can not apply the required force easily into the material without having plastic deformation, both in the piece at the normal, and the underlying material.

it is not, in ANY way, similar to attaching a flat face into an axe or the likes.

plus, I'm going to assume that you're welding steel flat face or bit to wrought. Wrought sticks like shit to a blanket. Steel to steel is far trickier.

>>51962399
> follow cock and drafts

eh?

>>51969866
>>51969980
While I will accept my lesser degree of knowledge in the concept of forgewelding large planes, I will still defend the pieced construction as a more practical construction method to the end product, by period standards of production.

Though I am most certainly with anon about the class usage. I'll see about digging up the image, as it featured an infantryman with said bar mace in nothing but a simple casque helm and short gambeson, along side a mounted man in full maille with a type IX pyramidal mace (most likely cast bronze).

>>51970183
Follow the cock and swallow. Both noble birds are on the arms.

File: knight_helmet.jpg (46KB, 270x405px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 270x405px

Were mitre great helms an actual thing?

>>51970605
Yes, but not metal. Paper mache, leather, wood etc.

>>51969723
>They were not ever mass produced.
depends on your definition of mass production because it seems like there were more than a few in Italy.

>From "European Weapons And Armour by Ewart Oakeshott".

"There is in the Odescalci Collection in Rome a most interesting mace of aberrant form, like a rather graceful club forged in steel with a little finial at its head shaped as a truncated cone reversed, and a small spherical button at the end of the narrow, shaped grip, illustrated in figure 13. This is a rare example of such a mace, though several are to be seen in Italian paintings of the fourteenth century-notably a fresco by Giotto in the Cappella della Scrovegni, Padua (c. 1303-1305), and a predella by Giovanni di Bartolomeo Christiani (c. 1367-1393) in the Metropolitan Museum, New York. It seems to have been a type of weapon confined to Italy, used probably only during the fourteenth century, since no representations of it exist later than Christiani's predella."

File: tumblr_olban9Mi981rjkl6po7_1280.jpg (425KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

425KB, 1280x960px

>>51972382
This is up there with fermented foods on 'what the fuck were they thinking' ideas that somehow worked.

>>51972473
that or or its a rare example of the phrase "hold my wine, watch this" that didnt go horribly wrong.

>>51974148
I get what you're saying, but fermenting foods into alcohol wasn't really an invention. It was just something that happened to anything left in the open too long.

>>51975370
I was more referring to someone after ne glass of wine too many saying "look at this!" and sticking an arrow in a sling, and launching it.

in the same way that "hold my beer, look at this" is the common phrase just before some idiot does something spectacularly stupid today.

>>51965040
>>51968234

Is that a depiction of Muhammad? I've seen some cultures depict him as a flaming silhouette with no features, but never as a terrifying, featureless creature of darkness...
Regardless, saved for Cthulhu purposes.

File: 84d3acba89b7c99ecfeb98974ef118c9.jpg (13KB, 640x276px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 640x276px

>but it doesn't make sense

File: chariots.jpg (298KB, 640x485px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 640x485px

>>51952758


>>51969533
I sugest katars. In fact, they may make more sense underwater than anywhere else.

File: IMG_20170302_221039.jpg (1MB, 2560x1920px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2560x1920px

>>51965584
Its been a bit skewed from combat but the profile is still bascinet

>>51978637
I didn't know they were making a new Bloodborne expansion.

>>51956389
There was legendary polish clusterfuck called Time Crystals where you could use one, they were quite op as well as they gave the autistic author a boner.

>>51965071
how METAL can one weapon be?

>>51965068
>throwing anus

When did the two-handed (or hand and a half) sword really get started in Europe?

Asking for a story.

>>51984898
I think it was as late as the early 1400s, at least after 1350. Was tied to the rise of greater cover/use of plate armour, which in turn freed up the shield hand but also lead to more use of weapons requiring both hands.

>>51984898
Hand-and-a-halfs come about in the mid/late 13thC, around about 1260AD.

Over the course of the 12thC certain arming swords began to get longer and heavier. They were primarily designed as a cavalry weapon for use against armoured enemies, but are of course still capable of being used on foot.

While the blades on these swords were very long (usually 35-40") they were still meant for single-handed use only and have a grip identical to shorter varieties of arming swords (which tend to hover around 30-34" blades).

In the second half of the 13thC these swords would develop into proper hand-and-a-halfs (Great Swords of War to use the period term). The blades are fundamentally the same as the long/heavy arming swords (which lack a proper term to seperate them from their shorter/lighter peers), the key change is an extended grip that allows for two-handed use. A common practice was to have two swords, the heavier suspended from the saddle and the lighter on the belt.

http://myarmoury.com/feature_spotxii.html
The XIIA is the earliest hand-and-a-half style.

>>51958738
thanks doc

>>51965071
Vampire Knight Requiem is the name of the source.
It is edgy as hell (where it takes place). The worst people on Earth become vampires, and Adolf Hitler is an atom bomb.
Its a thing alright.

File: 8fb6a0cbf58d0521976df92acb51c53b.jpg (101KB, 736x747px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 736x747px

>>51965071
>>51980360

File: swords_spear_big.gif (145KB, 3328x384px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 3328x384px

Is there a name for something like this?

>>51969792
Sexy! Whats the cal? Does it shoot?

>>51954256
>>51962546

Does anyone know if this is the sword Ken Liu based Mata Zyndu's sword on in the Dandelion Dynasty series?

File: image.jpg (80KB, 736x552px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 736x552px

I'm looking for maces! Flanged, Ball, any sort that isn't a Morningstar!
Particularly the sort a noble-born would use because his class restricts him from the cool weapons.

File: Gladius types.jpg (11KB, 400x200px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 400x200px

>>51988901
An Iklwa.

The Zulu used it to conquer and colonize Central and South Africa. Funny how the Romans took their neighbors' swords and made them shorter for better thrusting. The Zulu did the exact same. Fun pattern really

File: gaujian sword.jpg (375KB, 1465x1200px) Image search: [Google]

375KB, 1465x1200px

>>51954256
For those who want to read the script

File: Ancient spearmen from across ancient Europe.jpg (42KB, 787x557px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 787x557px

>>51990041
Just give a spear and decent shield with a nice helmet. A short seax for when the spear snaps would be great too. Nothing fancy

File: 1487533494346.jpg (84KB, 220x319px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 220x319px

>>51989917
>nobles using maces
The fuck is wrong with you? You should give him an ornate short sword.

>>51990103
My class doesn't get Shortswords either, plus he's built into strength.

File: 1484258486911.jpg (144KB, 1772x1181px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 1772x1181px

It's a rapier which is also a drill. The most awesome dumb weapon ever conceived.

File: 83204dd1768af7a68e104916c39cbe7c.jpg (156KB, 709x1108px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 709x1108px

SUP FUCKERS
GIMME YOUR BEST HELMETS
STAT

File: 50 shades of sword.jpg (52KB, 369x960px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 369x960px

>>51962453
Just play Song of Swords, daggers are nasty.

File: 6bf019667a8b213039364e2ae76fcf6b.jpg (186KB, 862x1200px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 862x1200px

>>51989917

>>51990103
What happens when you run into another heavily armored noble and your shortsword can't do dick about it?

File: 1411067401805.jpg (62KB, 500x708px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 500x708px

>>51990424

File: 1415919769157.jpg (61KB, 736x414px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 736x414px

>>51990704

>>51990103
But maces are a noble weapon.

File: 1479339855829.jpg (79KB, 639x960px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 639x960px

>>51990424

File: 1419379826306.jpg (592KB, 1939x1639px) Image search: [Google]

592KB, 1939x1639px

>>51990725


>>51990759
Ooh, I like that.

File: 1481501804145.jpg (36KB, 750x477px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 750x477px

>>51990103
I know, right? Look at this peasant trash.

File: image.jpg (45KB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 540x540px

>>51990103
Post what you got then cooking dorf

File: image.jpg (738KB, 2560x1600px) Image search: [Google]

738KB, 2560x1600px

>>51990855

File: 1473627138860.jpg (61KB, 480x640px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 480x640px

>>51990786

File: 1473627329768.jpg (14KB, 199x300px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 199x300px

>>51990897

File: 1473627691751.jpg (63KB, 476x640px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 476x640px

>>51990908

File: kaborion.jpg (40KB, 346x443px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 346x443px

>>51990925
Here's a japenese helm made from a european morion.

File: 1473628177312.jpg (72KB, 564x848px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 564x848px

>>51990947

File: 1473626606819.jpg (121KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 600x800px

>>51990969

File: 1406699859278.jpg (2MB, 1536x2048px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1536x2048px

>>51990999

File: 1411067339229.jpg (23KB, 236x356px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 236x356px

>>51991018

File: 1411067210184.jpg (119KB, 517x670px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 517x670px

>>51991083

File: anime reaction face #31.jpg (32KB, 373x498px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 373x498px

>>51991098

File: Phrygian_5.jpg (80KB, 480x640px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 480x640px

>>51991178

File: morningstar.png (151KB, 337x827px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 337x827px

Anyone got any bird-themed weapons? I've got a player in my game who would love something like that.

In return, have a morningstar token.

File: sword158a.jpg (16KB, 800x210px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 800x210px

>>51990804
I bet >>51990103 thinks falchions are peasant weapons too.

File: various falchions.jpg (873KB, 2048x2218px) Image search: [Google]

873KB, 2048x2218px

>>51991260
But they are

>>51991318
If it's good enough for Cosimo Medici, it's good enough for any noble.

File: serapendiya-pihiya5.jpg (176KB, 1306x1306px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 1306x1306px

>>51991231
http://mandarinmansion.com/unusual-pihiya-piha-kaetta

File: jian.jpg (489KB, 2400x1800px) Image search: [Google]

489KB, 2400x1800px

my favorite

File: tabarzin.jpg (17KB, 600x290px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 600x290px

I dare you to find a sexier axe.

File: 1467645265939.jpg (41KB, 403x1000px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 403x1000px

>>51991747
That was easy.

>>51991676
Always liked those textured hilts on Chinaman swords. Isn't it shark skin or something?

>>51991874
Usually ray skin, like the Japs use under the ito wraps on katanas.

>>51952758
Step 1) Play Legends of the 5 Rings
Step 2) Make a Hida Crab Bushi
Step 3) Profit

File: tumblr_of37i7uQOH1rrjmgoo1_1280.jpg (60KB, 1280x249px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 1280x249px

>>51990028
An iklwa is a spear though whereas that thing is more a sword with a long ass hilt.

File: 4b3af7b5.jpg (84KB, 900x470px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 900x470px

>>51991747
>>51991812

That is also a tabarzin, so you lose. Also while we're on the subject of kebab weapons, the yatagan is pretty sexy. Look at that thicc-ass forward curve, gets me hard.

File: 20110512-164222_Skeggoxandhandaxe.jpg (104KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 800x600px

I'm partial to the simple efficiency of the hand axe.

They say Robert the Bruce hit an English knight so hard on the top of the head with one of these that it broke off on his collarbone.

>>51992170
Nagamaki is a Japanese sword with a very long hilt, also the Dacian Falx might count.

File: chinese-twist-core-saber19.jpg (126KB, 1306x669px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 1306x669px

>>51991874
Ray skin or shark skin.

File: 3-2011Sp03169.jpg (190KB, 600x426px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 600x426px

Song Ngu - two carp.

File: Jesus Fucking Christ.jpg (51KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 500x500px

For causing physical and mental damage.

File: Type IV Mace (2).jpg (99KB, 800x658px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 800x658px

>>51992381
Not with a LARP axe he didn't.

http://www.saxonviolence.com/item/skeggox-and-handaxe

>>51992381
Whose?

>>51995976
hay, maybe Robert the Bruce was REALLY into larping. Also the English knight was a pro and could take his hits well too.

>>51969738
Wheellock a best
I know they're not as sturdy as flintlocks, but they're much cooler.

>>51969792
Fucking sexy. You got me jelly clownbro.

>>51992139
I know, I made the mistake to want to play a shugenja, though.

Well, D&D 5e has Samurai class, so I can just refluff Maul as a kanabo / tetsubo.

>>51997937
>Class
I mean fighter archetype.

File: 1481518468850.jpg (179KB, 450x988px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 450x988px

>>51991231

File: weapon2.jpg (8KB, 510x210px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 510x210px

The lucerne has been a weapon I love for a while.i think itd be fun to use in a game.

>>51978761
Fuck, that armour is beautiful

>>51965584
The helms in >>51961926
look like (very) crude but effective bascinets due to the fact that the crowns are drawn out to a point past the middle of the head and also have a bullet shape to them that simply isn't found even in 15th Century Italian barbuta, so what's your point?

And yes, the visors are probably ahistorical simply because of the sights alone, but that's still a bascinet-shaped thing and it's still got a visor. Therefore there's a good chance that that's a visored bascinet.

A barbute would probably have a much more clearly defined medial ridge and also wouldn't come to a clear point as the above examples do, but would be considerably more domed overall and have a flanged tail at the neck, depending on the period item being reproduced (earlier examples didn't possess the latter feature nor where they as heavily shaped to conform to the curvature of the skull as later examples are).

At any rate, the owner of one of those would need to post a clear picture side-on to resolve this thing.

Also as a smith in training, no, forge-welding two bars together at right angles using period fluxing and metals is not really as practical as swaging and fullering. I still wouldn't like to swage and fuller bar stock to a x-shaped cross section.

That's why flanged maces are better anyway :v

cont.d from >>51999748

Oh shit the owner posted at >>51978958

It is a bascinet after all

>>51975716
I'm pretty sure it's just some mythical Iranian king. Definately not Muhammad anyway, it's from the Shahnama.

>>51965071
I like how he's flipping him off

>>51972382
Ladies and gentlemen, the reason a bow and arrow qualifies as "technology".

>>51986932
I do love me a good broadsword.

File: Battleaxe.jpg (135KB, 800x606px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 800x606px

>>51991747
She stabs, she slices, she looks damn fine.

Checkmate.

File: Urumi flexing.jpg (15KB, 400x309px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 400x309px

The urumi is fucking sexy.

File: luristan bronze axe.jpg (163KB, 1000x809px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 1000x809px

>>51990895
Thank you for introducing me to a new series of weapon boners

>>52004880
What's going on here

File: Jumal_Velho_-_Velhografia.jpg (73KB, 350x350px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 350x350px

>>51965267
best light weapon in d&d 3.5

>that crit range

dude.

File: tobiguchi.png (552KB, 666x662px) Image search: [Google]

552KB, 666x662px

>>52008301

File: PC096015.jpg (68KB, 2413x503px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 2413x503px

>>51991747
Resisting the Musselmanns intensifies

>>51995503
I always wanted to put my wisdom teeth on a set of brass knuckles so I could punch people with WISDOM.

File: Goedendag_flamenco.jpg (26KB, 71x423px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 71x423px

>>51990851
Fuck yes, a goedendag.

File: 1488508218303.png (943KB, 1000x780px) Image search: [Google]

943KB, 1000x780px

>>52010217

>>52009106
Up until now I never thought I'd get a hard one to a sword.
You have proved me wrong

File: tumblr_ojimxf52C21rdtlt6o2_1280.jpg (19KB, 1162x562px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 1162x562px

>>52013760
>not being aroused by medieval killing implements

Why are you on /tg/?

>>52010217
Why doesn't it seem like landsknechts ever used full head to toe plate armor, or even sometimes armor on the back? Was it just cost prohibitive?

What would be good tundra weapons?
Preferably maces and spears.

>>51990897
>knight tries to go incognito in china

File: 1471815479973.jpg (88KB, 394x504px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 394x504px

>>52010217

>>52014013
>Was it just cost prohibitive?
Pretty much. It just doesn't make any sense-- when you're fighting in tight formation nobody's going to chop you in the fucking back. And not only that, but a half-suit of loose pieces is much less expensive than just half the price of a full set of interlocking plate, the armor's much easier to make in the first case.

>>52016489
>>52016611
Just to make sure, landsknechts usually wore helmets in combat despite the many depictions of them wearing hats or nothing on their head, right?

>>52016688
Yes. The pictures are almost invariably of landsknechts marching, standing around idle and chatting, doing small tasks in camp etc. or just straight up posing for the artist. In those cases you don't wear a helmet because they're fucking stifling and unpleasant.

In an actual crush of pike or cavalry charge, though, you either wear a helmet or get punked like the retard you are.

>>52016688
Some helmets fit under the hats.

>>51969723
Mass production wasn't a thing at a point where people were using maces at all, really.

>>51962399
Thanks doc

File: c9982ea7e25648cd0470b572287cb734.jpg (21KB, 236x326px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 236x326px

For clarification: this is a Native American armor made from Chinese coins (from trade) strung together for a crude scale armor.

>>51989649
.69 cal, so she shoots a .66 ball in a 6inch pan at about 50 meters.

File: tumblr_mumfs7stgf1sj3ka9o2_1280.jpg (86KB, 640x425px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 640x425px

>>52018337
>that corporate logo of a lion design

That's disgusting.

>>52019215
jesus I didn't even notice

File: tumblr_og2fjuLaph1vh9pr3o1_1280.jpg (211KB, 1024x827px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 1024x827px

>>52014758
Clubs carved from the tusks of snow beasts.

File: Epée de justice et fourreau, ca. 1699 (1).jpg (18KB, 758x310px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 758x310px

J U S T I C E

File: Epée de justice et fourreau, ca. 1699 (2).jpg (24KB, 758x413px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 758x413px

>>52020290

File: Epée de justice et fourreau, ca. 1699 (3).jpg (13KB, 758x234px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 758x234px

>>52020304

File: 1445665973399.jpg (83KB, 1936x1286px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 1936x1286px

>>52023041
What was up with Asian cultures and crazy spears?

File: Polearms.jpg (50KB, 589x415px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 589x415px

>>52024271
I'd ask Europeans the same thing.

What kind of alien dildo did somebody look at for inspiration to make the billhook?

Has there ever been used a weapon that's kind of like polearm, but instead of the axe/spearhead there's an iron ball or a morningstar head? Effectively a really long mace, probably with a spike/spearhead at the end.

File: sflynt_polearms002_s.jpg (33KB, 600x300px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 600x300px

>>52024911
I think what you're about is a goedendag? Though I've never seen on quite as long as a normal polearm.
See also >>52010533 >>51990851 for pictures.

Though the other answer is that what you're asking for is exactly why polehammers tend to have spikes.

>>52025068
I mean mostly really long maces, not exactly hammers. I think that the long warhammers are much more effective about in every aspect, so I'm not sure if what I ask has ever been done.
What vision I have in my head, is like 1,5-2 meter long handle and either flail, morningstar or a iron ball at the head (or the mace head) pretty much like a spear, but with different and heavier head.

>>52020290
Okay, so the sword was to cut people's heads off, but what were the knives for? Removing choice pieces of skin from the body?

>>51993322
"Have you ever been so mad you picked up your two pet carps and beat a man to death with them?"

>>52024911
The Morgenstern group (I don't think I'll need to translate that one) is just that. Usually wooden balls with spikes for heads (probably little need for more mass with all that shaft), though more elaborate metal mace heads are known.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were a much mroe common weapon, at least regionally, than the single handed mace variant of the mornignstar. There's a decent bunch of them in the Graz armour for example.

No photos because pic limit.

>>51990682
>What are seams?

>>52025541
Small and very, very difficult to hit with any effectiveness, especially when the person whose 'seams' you're trying to hit is also attempting to kill you.

I'm designing armor for myself. Should I go with cuisses, haidate or both?

>>51980156
>polish doesn't surprise me, after all it's a polesword