The Dark Eye

>>51929428
>that cover
they did not think that through

>>51929428
No i don't, but i highly recommend avoiding 4th edition, as it suffers of rules-creep. it's skill system is so bloated to the point of being just impractical (though i have to say that it is fairly realistic, if that's your thing)

>>51929465
>DSA skill system is bloated
Nani?

>>51929465
I played the 4th alot. And in specially this was what I liked the most desu.
We had ordinary worksmen campaigns. Where you run a buisness getting contracts and making money.

Are warrior priests/templars of Rahja a thing?

>>51929538
Used to be upto 3rd.
Don't know if they released new rules yet.

>>51929452
the staff looks like a Dick

>>51929497
oh, i'm sorry: DSA = Das Schwarze Auge = The Dark Eye in german

>>51929524
If that's the thing you like then yes, it's probably a good system for you. It's a terrible first impression for the system, wich is why i recommended other editions instead

>>51929604
Thank you, Captain.

>>51929645
>oh, i'm sorry: DSA = Das Schwarze Auge = The Dark Eye in german
Oh, I'm aware, just commenting on how DSA has been a bloated mess for decades.

>>51929645
Oh I can Imagine when I was a Cyclopean fisherman with my lad.
We made a comfy living on the sea until the things changed drastically.
I never saved much money to buy me a new boat.
A storm got us and we ended up surviving on an Island. Evil creatures lived there and we weren't fighters. Had to use brainz to survive.

>>51929676
And is the most popular system in germany.
Germans are weird.

>>51929713
I'm not sure from where, but
>bloated mess
>popular for over a decade
sounds eerily familiar. Really can't put my finger on it, though.

>>51929428
Please!!
Does nobody has the pdfs in english?

Version 4 or 5 doesn't matter.

>>51929713
Peaking as a German, I can respect the depth and attention to detail, but some aspects like combat are so fucking convuluted that it honestly takes the fun out of it.
My friends and I ended up using a LOT of houserules before finally switching over to D&D and just using the setting.

>>51929754
You just need to change your D&D thinking of cleaning dungeons and collecting loot to more like fantasy world simulation where you can be an ordinary Person doing ordinary things. Where you can be a simple researcher who discovers some secrets of ancient ruins. Or a simple detective that solves a crime. Pure mind games without any fight or monsters necessary.

I could never get friends with the restriced D&D enviroment.

We had this exact thread yesterday.

https://mega.nz/#F!KcYnFRwB!svAhjnY3pBgihPFs2CUoUg

>>51929816
Spotted the GURPSFag. KILL HIM!!!!

>>51929816
Except that most classes are some sort of combatant and the game clearly wants you to go out and fight stuff.
It's just that combat has always been insanely clunky and low level characters die like flies to anything serious.

>>51929816
M8, I was just shitting on D&D. If I wanted detailed rules to cover mundane activities, I would unironically use GURPS, or else port GURPS rules into some other system. I doubt that a medieval world simulator would be more useful than an infinite world simulator.

Also, you really need to work on not sounding like a shill.

>>51929882
>>51929855
I don't know what grurps is.

>>51929872
>You can play a one legged beggar
It's clearly the decision of the Storyteller where the story goes. I don't see anything forcing fighting.

>>51929835
But that's in German lad. Leider spricht meine Spielergruppe kein Deutsch, deswegen wollte ich das in English.

Going to start a new group soon. I've been playing DSA on and off for a few years now, first time being the GM for a group of newbies.
And I'm definitely going to pass on a lot of rules right from the start.
All these new talents that add sub-categories to skills are going to be ignored.

>>51929702
that sounds like a fun idea...

>>51929676
yes, but 4th was especially bad. i hear they fixed that in 5th

>>51929713
really? i know it's very popular, but the most? the more you know, i guess...

>>51930226
I feel like DSA 5 is getting another kind of bloated than DSA 4.
They keep on adding variations of skills or sub-skills and talents that only add 1 bonus point to a certaion skill and it just keeps on building with every new book they release.

>>51930251
that shit is optional you know.

>>51930251
What prevents you from just playing with the basic rules?
I don't get why everyone feels forced to use the more detailed stuff.
Some of those content I like and use some not.

>>51930302
I know. Doesn't change that fact that it's there. And that they keep making more of those.

>>51930341
I'm not gonna use them. My problem is just that (exaggerating) 90% if new content is stuff I will never use because it's more work than it's worth it.

>>51930353
It's just to sell more + give advanced players some aditional character development.

>>51929970
>It's clearly the decision of the Storyteller where the story goes.
And if the storyteller decides to go anywhere near combat, the clunky rules wll fuck everone over.

>>51930485
Those rules also apply to the opponents you know.

Your argument is not working.

How to find a group to play?

Bavaria here.

>>51929770
check the pdf share thread friendo its in there

>>51930510
>Those rules also apply to the opponents you know
So? Only means the combat will be even more drawn out and tiresome, as both sides ineffectively waddle their weapons at each other.

I never played that game, but I know that there is a RPG in my country which introduced the hobby to litterally thousands of new players, and it is based on Dark Eye rules

My current group is getting bored of said rpg, and I am trying to find something to replace it, but I was worried that Dark Eye rules might be too complicated for my players.

>>51929428
tfw her penis is bigger than yours

>>51929428
Does anyone know where i can get the Niobaras Vermächtnis pdf?

>>51931074
Online oder Tischgruppe?

>>51930485
>And if the storyteller decides to go anywhere near combat, the clunky rules wll fuck everone over.

Maybe you are just stupid? Roll20 +- modifiers. Enemy can roll to dodge or to parry. He doesn't? Roll for damage.

>>51933508
except evryone is so shitty at fighting and does so little damage that it goes on for fucking ever.
Ever tried having two normal leel dudes in armour and shields duke it out?

>>51933473
Tischgruppe wäre geil.

>>51934096
How about you play a fighting class with max strenght?
Two hit and everything that isn't a fighter itself is kill.
Of course when you only play a one legged 80 year old bling beggar shit can get quite difficult.

>>51934330
Versuch im Ulisses Forum nen Thread aufzumachen.

http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/forum/

Für Online-Runden empfehle ich Drachenzwinge.de und mit etwas Glück die Angebote auf roll20. Da sind relativ selten DSA Gruppen drin. Aber wenn mal welche drin sind, dann sind die Plätze schnell weg.

>>51934096
Just stop embarassing yourself. >>51934380
is completely right.

>>51934380
Played a cleric of Rondra.
Took until level 5 or 6 until I could reliable do anything beyon spamming normal attacks and thats with basically min-maxing

>>51934706
Just reading through it.

Seems like a very stable fighter. You're sure you didn't fuck up with understanding the rules somewhere.

>>51934861
Thing is, armour encumberence, even with the class proficiency, results in pretty much all your combat rolls being made worse and low level characters are pretty bad to begin with.
That and any special stuff lie feinting or killing blow must be purchased with XP and are so difficult to pull off, that they are essentially useless for most characters, unless you pour everything into a single talent.
A level one character wearing full armour is lucky to hit a tree in combat.

>>51929713
it wasnt more bloated than other game systems at the time. and these days it just hasnt jumped on the rules-light bandwagon yet (compare Shadowrun & Anrachy)..

>>51929792
>My friends and I ended up using a LOT of houserules before finally switching over to D&D and just using the setting.
so you traded a place in the gutter for a place in the pigpen? respect!

>>51935049
Well, since no one in my group is a munchkin, we've never really had a problem.

Never really got why so many people on here are so deadset on badmouthing it.

>>51929872
>It's just that combat has always been insanely clunky
someone hasnt played 1E/2E

>>51935119
several reasons, the main one being that it's thoroughly gamist. and that such a gamist system is the sole representative of our hobby.

>>51934984
Get used to the armor II and grow a talent.
That's it.

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>>51935126
Jokes on you, asshole.
Can't say anything about 1st edition, but 2nd was pretty bad.

>>51935154
So it's people being hipsters?

>>51935205
My point is that I shouldn't have to spend 5 levels minmaxing to make my character halfway competent.

>>51935361
You can do it from the beginning.
Also where is the sense behind having a strong character already in the beginning?

>>51935154
>This boardgame plays too much like a boardgame! I want my boardgame to be less like a boardgame!

I'll try any system before I knock it, but I've never understood this "gamist" thing.

>>51935361
You should have spend the 5 levels too search for an easier system. Something for simple people maybe?

>>51935403
Because I'd like my hero to do heroic things?

I get that there are people who enjoy playing very low tier stuff, but the game has always represented the various classes as very competent, which simply does not translate into gameplay until you reach higher levels.

>>51935424
If you had read my previous posts, you'd know that I did, friend.

>>51935500
It's just considered normal to play a weak newby charackter that fights rats in a basment to a dragonslaying hero.

I just wonder that you see that rules so strict yet never thought about just increasing the generation points in the beginning. It isn't like you are forced to do the standard thing.

>>51935588
We did that for the longest time, starting characters out at level 5, later 10.
Playing a fighter actually gets pretty fun once you got a decent number of maneuvers and can effectively pull them off. Same with stuff like grappling and shooting.
We ended up switching over to D&D eventually, since we prefer the way it handles combat, but we still use the DSA setting for most of our campaigns.

>>51929713
>bloated mess
>loved by many
a little on the nose calling it the German D&D

>>51929538
Who is Rahja?

>>51929428
>Fuck D&D simplified garbage desu.

Yep. Looks like Dungeons and Dragons has finally cemented its place as a containment RPG.

It's not like this wasn't already a thing. Ever since third edition came out the trend was already starting. Fourth edition came with the popularity surge of The Big Bang Theory which resulted in a spike in sales, which was not enough to save 4e's badly-written mechanics.

Fifth edition was specifically watered down to be palatable both to grognards (who do not rely on the active D&D community nor do they need a new ruleset, thus this pandering was stupid) and to normies, who flocked to the game in great masses thanks to the game's appearance on two terrible TV shows (Stranger Things and Big Bang Theory). Also, the prevalence of Critical Role podcast created quite a lot of love for D&D, which found itself inundated by waves of new players. Wizards of the Coast saw sales skyrocketing, giving them the false message that dumbing down the game represented an improvement in game design (though they did streamline many of the mechanics, which was a good thing). As a result, Wizards is very happy with this diluting of the Dungeons and Dragons fanbase. /tg/ has also deluded itself into thinking this influx of players is a good thing. This lack of foresight is to be expected.

D&D is now the containment RPG. It keeps the dumb-ass Skyrim addicts and the brain-dead hipster roasties who can't even figure out which die to roll, out of the good RPGs. Which is sad, because D&D, despite being shit in many small ways, was overall a very fun and enjoyable roleplaying game. It was structured that way. However, the fanbase it is now attracting is making it intolerable, and the way said fanbase is guiding the mechanics is a direction that would make a game like Dungeon World seem sophisticated.

So, in short, D&D is dead, but thank god for its existence.

>>51939219
http://en.wiki-aventurica.de/wiki/Rahja

>>51939257

Wew lad.

Pathfinder is the containment RPG—because that kind of autism needs to be contained.

4th edition players are happy with their little skirmish game, they're cool doing the "D&D tactics" thing. 5th edition players are happy with their "modern synthesis" of story-gaming meets power-gaming, that's a valid play-style too and I'm glad players who like that sort of thing have a game for it now.

And those of us who actually play D&D? We have the OSR; it's been a good decade for us. Every once in a while, we have the chance to remind the younglings that we explore dungeons, not characters, and that an RPG is about exploration, not improv play-acting or collaborative story-telling. Makin' converts in the FLGS on a weekly basis, that sort of thing.

Pretty sure I wouldn't want to convert you though.

>>51929792
You certainly peaked as a German.

>>51929538
yes it is a thing

>>51929428
Why is her dildo on fire?

>>51945116
That's not a - just - a dildo, that's a staff. Mages in Das Schwarze Auge need staffs to do magic. There are also certain enchantment each mage with half a brain has on his or her staff, one of which can make it burn like a torch.

Warum redet hier keiner Deutsch?

>>51945134
>Mages in Das Schwarze Auge need staffs to do magic.
They don't need them but it's practical.

>>51945153
I'm almost certain guild mages need 'em. Witches and elves and other inferior dilettantes don't, but guild mages can't do shit without their staffs. At least, in the editions I know (mostly 1st and 4th)..

>>51945211
Staffs make it easier for the mages to concentrate the arcane power but are by no means a requirement to cast something. A wizard without a staff wastes more mana than one with a staff.

>>51945254
The Astral energy saving thing is one of the staff enchantments. The third, I believe.

>>51945211
You can cast spells without a stuff too.
But with a stuff it's more efficient.

>>51945320
I definitely remeber that guild mages couldn't use any magic without their staffs in 1st ed. Can't find anything concerning using magic without your staff in 4ed rulebooks though, so they might have changed that.

>>51945391
I've been playing 4th Edition already for over a decade. And no. You don't need a stuff. And yes most Guildmages have one. You enchant a stuff with spells you commonly use or as a support for spells. This gives the ability to cast a spell fast in a fight or to save AsP. But it doesn't hast to be a staff. It can be a gem, a ring or whatever.

>>51945425
But you do need something, right?

>>51945481
no you can also do it raw.

How does D&D manage craftsmen skills?
Like when you're a fisher or woodworker?

>>51935208
Though it must be said it had the superior mustaches and helmets.

>>51929713
It's the german autism.

>>51945134
It doesn't change the fact it looks like a dildo on fire.

Ich weiß nicht

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>>51929855
>DSA thread
>GURPSfag

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>>51949689
>D&D
>Other skills than killing things or putting them under your charm
>In fact, skills at all

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>>51950213
Looks a bit like the old Manowar covers...Anyway, 2nd edition was all about glorious beards and winged helmets from what I can remember.

>>51950327
>This is boring when can we go back to killing stuff?

>>51949689
Which edition are we talking about?

>>51950790
any edition that provides.

>>51950406
>Every player is 12 years old

>>51952512
>Implying your typical DnD Group isn't behaving like 12 year olds.

>>51952644
>implying you aren't 12 years old

>>51952687
I'm not the one playing a system designed for 12 year olds.

>>51952735
Does this mean you're younger?

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>>51950405
It certainly was for manly men doing manly things with other manly men

>>51951038
3e has the Craft skill family. 2e's got two different skill methods. Non-Weapon Proficiencies have such things as fishing, Secondary Skills are a whole profession (like Fisherman or Carpenter), and are basically all the skills you'd expect somebody with that profession to be able to do.

I don't know about 4e and 5e, 1e has no skill system by default but has the same NWP system as 2e available in the supplements. BECMI/RC has something similar in supplements, but I don't know what skills are in it. Pretty sure OD&D, Holmes Basic, and B/X have no skill system.