/5eg/ Fifth Edition General: Mystic Please Edition

Mystic sucks and psionics don't fit well with DnD

Fight me

I kind of like the old style of Psychics (2e?)

What's with the Plane Shift stuff, If you want to play a Kaladesh campaign, it revolves around artificers and fighters with cool gadgets (wings/maulfist things) how do we adapt those for 5e?

If a player wanted to use a well reasoned argument to intimidate someone would you let him use Wisdom?

In this case the Fighter (The only one with common sense) gave an argument against some thugs trying to rob them that boiled down to "I already have an arrow notched and your 30 feet away, plus we've got a Wizard". His charisma's only 8 and he has zero social proficiencies but I feel like I should've thrown him a bone for this.

So my party has successfully helped a cult resurrect an archfey that has been dead for slightly over a thousand years. How might one go about stating an archfey? High mental stats, truesight, at-will invisibility, the ability to create kitsune, and a few innate spells are a good start, but what might be some other fun ideas to tack on to an archfey of industry?

>>51925920
In most settings? Yeah you're completely right.

They have a time and a place though, plus they've been around so long that they feel obligated to do something with them.

>>51925953
If it means anything, the DMG does mention a varient rule for making intimidation checks strength-based instead of charisma-based. I'm sure your fighter has a better strength than charisma, even if he is a dexterity-based fighter.

Alternatively, you can always give him advantage or, a personal favorite of mine, tweak the DC for success to be lower.

>>51925984
Actually that's a good idea. For the future in a situation like that though I should've just made him pass because the thieves trying to intimidate the rogue and paladin didn't notice the fighter and wizard until it was too late.

If I was a group of three thugs I'd most likely fuck off when the odds weren't in my favor.

If you hate wild magic you are literally homosexual.

>>51925920
>they have been in DnD since 2nd ed
>Muh tolkien influenced setting
try again autist

>>51925953
>a well reasoned argument
Intelligence.

>"I already have an arrow notched and your 30 feet away, plus we've got a Wizard"
Still Charisma to see if it's threatening. Someone can hold a gun to your face and not sound threatening.

However, in situations like those I generally roll an Insight (Intelligence or Wisdom) check for the enemy to see if they have any common sense. If they fail an Insight check, they probably think the group is bluffing, that the robed guy isn't a wizard, the the fighter can't aim, etc.

>>51926017
1e, actually. They were a rare character option in the back of the AD&D 1e PHB.

>>51926016
So if I just dislike it I'm bisexual?
That sounds about right.

>>51926016
>hating random rainbows makes you a homosexual
I don't think that's how it works.

So in lore do spells still dissappear from memory or is it a stamina thing?

So my druid just got disintegrated by a zombie beholder while in wildshape, the poor bastard turned to dust and I gotta make a new character.

I would have killed it the previous turn but the DM had changed the zombie beholder so that it still got to come back at 1hp regardless of the fact the killing damage dealt to it was radiant damage.

Thoughts? It's finished now, im not gonna argue a character death.

>>51926021
>Someone can hold a gun to your face and not sound threatening.
Let's not fuck around here. If someone held a gun up to your face then pretty much everyone in this thread would shut up and listen. You'd be a fucking idiot not to listen to someone pointing a gun at you even if they looked like a square.

>>51926038
Nuclear Druid

>>51926051
I absolutely agree - and if you're fucking stupid, you have a low intelligence. Hence an Intelligence check for the enemy instead of an Intimidate check for the PC.

>>51925374
Anyone know how to import the spell handouts into roll20?

I think I'm doing the roll20 5etools thing wrong, I have the script installed but there's nothing in the compendium besides a new section that has a bunch of empty subsections.

>>51926038
Kobold Dragon Sorcerer who casts Polymorph a lot. He just wants to be a big dragon.

>>51926063
Just felt the need to make sure you weren't retarded. Too many people say they'd disarm the guy or some bullshit.

>>51926016

kys Dorian

>>51926096
Literally who?

>>51926096
Not him. I think I know the Dorian you're talking about but I don't see what he has to do with Wild Magic.

>>51926107
>but I don't see what he has to do with Wild Magic.

it isn't him then

>>51926115
Mind sharing because if not this is gonna bug me until I figure it out.

>>51926096
>Attack dragon and then try moving to the west of the map
>DM lines it up to hit me and two others
>ABLOO BLOO BLOO YOU DID IT ON PURPOSE WAAAAH
Fuck off.

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>>51926064
>>51926067
Once you have the userscript installed and open the Roll20 game, you should see this in the settings tab of the right panel. Click Import Spells and the selection dialog will open up, letting you import some or all of them.

>>51926136
Oh, I see now, thanks.

>>51925895
New Unearthed Arcana explores rules for adding an incremental bonus to attack rolls whenever you miss that resets when you hit, to speed up combat amidst high AC combatants.

Are you looking forward to UA: Miss Tick?

>>51926163
Is it +1 Attack whenever you miss by any chance?

>>51925895
C'mon take 3 of mass combat.

Wild Sorcerer was some of the most fun I've had playing a one-shot.

>about to get mauled by a dire bear
>cast shield, but it wasn't enough
>wild surge makes me cast grease, both the bear and myself fall prone, DM rules it makes him miss

>at the top of a wall, enemy invaders charging below
>throw a fireball, wild surge makes me levitate as I rain fire upon my foes
>at the end of the battle, I become the bard's balloon for the next 9 minutes

>final confrontation against a group of cultists mind-controlling some orcs
>they summon what I can only guess was a nerfed Devourer (Volo's hadn't been released yet)
>I summon flumphs and A FUCKING UNICORN

Fun was had.

>>51926038
Sonic boom Tabaxi.

Making a Tiefling arcane trickster what three spells should I take?

>>51926238
Wild Magic Sorcerers are one of those things where I will not play them in any kind of serious campaign but sound fun if you and everyone is just playing a joking, fun one.

>>51925920
I don't like them either but they fit just fine.

>>51925920
the fuck is mystic?

So when is UA - Blueballs for Mystics coming out?

So, moon druids.

Looking around, there seems to be a lot of confusion about the workings of how wild shape interacts with abilities and feats.

Do we have actual sage advice on this?

I am asking as a GM. Right now, we interpret it as follows:
Feats and abilities, except for senses (dark vision etc.) Transfer over to the wild shape form.

I am rather generous, so feats, including ASI's, transfer over - i want there to be a mechanical point of taking strength and dexterity. Of course, 20 is still the natural cap, so unless the monster somehow exceeds 20 (not to my knowledge) it cannot go past it.

Furthermore, I find it odd to allow feats to work, but not ordinary ASI. Why would you gain dex/strength/con from a feat, but not an ordinary ASI?

How do you play this out, and do we have an official ruling on this?

>>51926392

Ah cool, was writing a reply to your post on the previous thread.

The PHB rules state that STR/DEX/CON are taken from the animal's statblock, whereas you retain your INT/WIS/CHA, which I agree with - you're transforming your shape to that of another creature, it wouldn't make sense for ASIs to your original body to also apply to your new one. However, it's still your mind, and as such any ASIs should still apply for the mental stats.

Personally, I don't allow feats while in wild shape, and I don't agree with your reading that feats are allowed. The PHB says >You retain the benefits of any features from your class, race, or any other source

Features to me doesn't imply feats - it sounds like, as listed, class features or race features, with the last line there as a catch-all for any other gained features a character might have acquired.

I don't think you need to be generous at all with Moon Druids anyway, Wild Shape is their bread and butter and is pretty damn good as it is. If I were to buff them i'd give them additional uses of Wild Shape as they level.

>>51926361
A psionic class for 5ed is set up like the cleric in that is has archetypes that cover the different archetypes from 4ed and 3.5ed

>>51925895
MYSTICS DON'T DRAW POWER FROM THE FAR REALM OR WTF OTHER PLANE. Do you even know what power of the mind means WotC?

>>51926449
Yeah they do
There are portals to the far realm inside your brain
Dummy

>>51926322
I really want to try one out for a longer campaign and see what happens. Essentially the strategy would be:
>be a tiefling for fire resistance
>don't use tides of chaos until you have enough HP to survive a fireball (around level 3-4)
>try to stay 25ft away from most of your party members avoid hurting them with fireball or confusion
Most other things are good or harmless, so I don't see why it wouldn't work unless the DM was aiming for a really serious game.

>>51926457
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Do you even psionics 2ed?

>>51926404
I am just reading "other sources" as "not just the class".

Do people really view moon druids as *good*?

My players very rarely multiclass, and when they do, it is often for thematic reasons (Fey lock turns from just gaining powers, to actively fighting on the name of his patron as a paladin of the Ancients, Arcane trickster goes full wizard, etc.) - so the min/maxing is rather limited. Despite this, the usual fighter, paladin, warlock, rogue, monk... really, anyone but the vanilla Ranger, is just outperforming the moons ruin in almost all regards. The only thing they have going for them, is the ability to soak a lot of damage, which is lame as hell. I'd also prefer to give them the option of going for more customized forms - a large bear is pretty cool, but if you invested +4 dex into it...

I also don't think it is a good idea to just straight up not allow feats to work. There are a ton of really good feats for a wild formed druid, like sentinel and resilient, and straight up not allowing them, would give them a large handicap compared to the other close combat fighters.

Or is my party just unique in being bad at moon druid or something?

>>51926470
This isn't 2ed
Dummy

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>>51926496
>not knowing the origins of the true psionicist
>tips fedora
>swirls cape

>>51926524
It's whatever WotC says
Dummy

>>51926392
What transfers to wild shape in determined in its description:
>alignment
>personality
>Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores
>skill and saving throw proficiencies
>the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so
It's that simple. Feats can only be used if your new form would be capable of using them. So a giant eagle-druid could use the benefits of Observant or Alert, and I think even Sentinel, but not of Great Weapon Master or Dual Wielder.

>Strength is used for:
Carrying Capacity.
Attack/Damage roll modifiers with certain weapons.
Strength saves.
Strength skills.
>Dexterity is used for:
Initiative roll modifier.
AC modifier on lightly armored characters.
Attack/Damage roll modifiers with certain weapons.
Dexterity saves.
Dexterity skills.
>Constitution is used for:
Number of bonus hit points every level.
Constitution saves.
>Intelligence is used for:
Intelligence saves
Intelligence skills
>Wisdom is used for:
Wisdom saves.
Wisdom skills.
>Charisma is used for:
Charisma saves
Charisma skills

>Your mission:
Make suggestions that would dethrone Dexterity as the must-have ability, while making Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma abilities that are actually worth putting points into as a non-caster.

>>51926136
After installing the userscript I see the import spell option, but when I click import it shifts over to the character/handouts tab... but no spell window appears for selection or import. I can only assume I have made a foolish mistake

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>>51926542
FUCK YOU WOTC.
I want my mystic independent of outside forces!

>>51926136
>Import monsters
>Bunch of "undefined" stuff popping up in attack rolls
>Trying to delete them all now
I have made a mistake.

ok, are spell components used up for every spell or is it only specified?

>>51926607
Only if specified
Items that aren't used are simply catalysts that must be present to invoke the specific spell.

>>51926555
Having a half-decent perception is enough for me to want to invest in wisdom most of the time.

>>51926615
ah I was wondering, As I was considering the economics of diamonds being wasted by even basic spells. but thanks for clarifying, Hell it even gives me a idea of say a gemstone being used over a long period of time being suffused with magic and eventually being made into its own magic object

>>51926562
Additionally, a mystic dependent on the Far Realm means no Dark Sun setting as Athas is disconnected from all other planes. Of course WotC can also change that!

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>>51926494
What level is your party?

Moon Druids are ridiculous at 2nd to 3rd, pretty good at 4-6th, OK at 7-8th, then their usefulness falls off a cliff. Most of my group's campaigns tend to stay within those ranges, mostly because that's where we have the most fun and that gives us a good 2-5 month period which we can run a solid campaign in, so we haven't really had too many issues there.

How do you see your druid? Is he a caster, a tank, a damage dealer, a stealthy dude, or all of the above? Druids are really versatile.

The real usefulness with Moon Druids are the abilities of the creatures, rather than the base stats - Turning into a Warhorse and Dashing gives 120ft of movement. The Tiger's pounce, the Dire Wolf's pack tactics or the Brown Bear's multiattacks are all great in combat. The Giant Spider is insane for scouting/sneak attacks in dungeons/caves. For some ungodly reason a Giant Octopus is a CR1 creature, pic related.

Plus, don't knock the damage soaking - as weird as it sounds, having a burst tank is really useful. Party member is in trouble? Suddenly there's a bear in the way. Group of small weak enemies? Tiger pounce into the middle, if they manage to kill it, next round turn into something tanker and draw attention from everyone else.


Also, Wild shape aside, how is your druid having trouble dealing consistent damage? He is aware of Moon Beam, is he not?

>>51926607
Spell components are always consumed - but a component pouch or focus takes away the bookkeeping and it's assumed you just always have the mundane components available to avoid the minutiae of buying or searching for them.

If it's something like Gem (1000gp) then you actually do have to go out of your way to buy the specified item for whatever parenthesis price says and it's consumed on use.

Generally the only time a GM should make you track your spell components is if you opted for a component pouch and you've been out in the wilderness for a reasonably long time and haven't had time to restock in a town, or if you're captured and don't have access to your focus/pouch in which case you might reasonable be expected to cast spells with only verbal and somatic tags.

>>51926642
>a gemstone being used over a long period of time being suffused with magic and eventually being made into its own magic object
Sounds pretty cool, anon.
As long as "a long period of time" isn't one session later.

>>51926668
What? Spell components are consumed only if the material component has a cost and it specifies that it consumes it.

Why would anyone use Chromatic Orb, ever, if it always consumed a 50gp diamond?

>>51926688
but what if it has a cost but doesnt specify?

There a way for me to get multiple "attacks of opportunity"? I've always had a thing for goblinoids, and bugbears look much more solid than goblins and hobgoblins.

>>51925407
>>51925793
But polymorph only lets you change things into animals.
>>51925685
Your build is ok. Your use of your stats is good. You're just starting from strictly worse than standard array. There's certainly at least one party member with stats strictly better than standard array, so it's easy for them to outshine you. You didn't do anything wrong. Except rolling for stats. Ree. Etc.
>>51925666
The origin isn't weak if you get a lot of surges and position correctly; IE point the dangerous end at enemies. It's just DM dependent.

>>51926670
Nah I was thinking something more like it taking several years at the very least.

>>51925895
Has anyone tried the previous UA mystic? It looks good.

>>51926707
I don't think so? Though it makes sense in my head that, if you are given multiple opportunities to get a slap in if more than one thing is trying to move past you, you can.

>>51926688
My bad I forgot about that. Chromatic Orb for instance does require a diamond worth 50 gp but isn't consumed unless specified. But items like that generally require you to actually acquire one before casting the spell and aren't included in the mundane part of a component pouch.

If you took chromatic orb at 1st level during chargen but didn't spend any of your starting gold on the diamond to cast it - your DM might tell you too bad, can't cast unless you buy one.

So to correct myself: if (which the spell consumes) is present, the Xgp item is lost forever, mundane stuff like pinch of some kind of dust is also always consumed but it's assumed you have an infinite amount, and things with a gp cost but no consume on use is present you still need to have that item present but you keep it forever or until lost.

Sorry for the misinfo there.

>>51926707
>I've always had a thing for goblinoids, and bugbears look much more solid than goblins and hobgoblins.

Assuming you're talking abnout playing one using the Volo's race rules, if your DM lets you use a bugbear he deserves everything he gets.

Long limbs is flat-out bullshit, and doesn't even make sense seeing as the base creature in the MM doesn't even have that ability.

To my mind if you play a monstrous race, you should be at an inherent disadvantage. It's hard to RP well with, and your character should constantly be treated with suspicion and distrust. It shouldn't be played for minmaxing.

>>51925920
dunno what Mystic is but psychic abilities have their own settings in d&d since forever (or as some call it, 2nd edition). It means that they are probably more familiar with d&d than you

>>51926704
Then it's not consumed, it's a one time cost, but you need to use the money and own that item to cast the spell.

>>51926051
>mfw I know someone who asked 'is that even real' first.
>>51926080
Not a ninja. Just cynical, I guess.

>>51926707
>>51926737
>>51926753
From Light, Dark, Underdark! UA, here is a fighting style available to Fighters, Paladins and Rangers:

>Tunnel Fighter
You excel at defending narrow passages, doorways, and other tight spaces.
As a bonus action, you can enter a defensive stance that lasts until the start of your next turn. While in your defensive stance, you can make opportunity attacks without using your reaction, and you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that moves more than 5 feet while within your reach.

>>51926710
>Except rolling for stats. Ree. Etc.

I was annoyed too. I joined the campaign late as I was rejoining the group after travelling for a bit. I've never like rolling for them, but the rest of the group rolled for theirs when they started and it wouldn't be cool to rock up with some min-maxed pointbuy build.

Ah well, hopefully he'll die soon and I can make something more interesting if the DM ever actually fucking makes his monsters attack the fucking tank, we're level 5 now and I've never dropped below half HP jesus fucking christ

>>51925953
I generally tend to base intimidation check on attribute which is fitting the way that player is intimidating.

>>51925953
>I feel like I should've thrown him a bone for this.

If their argument is good enough, I'd give my players advantage for this. If he's got a good argument, it should count for something, but if he's not very charismatic he still could fuck it up.

>>51926392
the most important question of them all: can I use martial arts as a gorilla?

Any chance of a Plane Shift book in the future?

>>51926875
Nope. Plane-Shift is nothing but the non-profit project of one guy that's worked on both MtG and D&D within WotC.

>>51926315
made my choice for my lvl 1 arcane trickster
>cantrips
Mage Hand
Minor Illusion
Shocking Grasp
>lvl 1 spells
Disguise Self
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Sleep

>>51926964
>lvl 3 arcane trickster

>>51923474
Poison adds ON TOP OF your already existing damage.

No matter how it is, it is a straight buff that casters can't use.

>>51925046
Treachery: 'How many different ways can I get advantage?: the class' and the level 20 ability nobody will ever get but shows they clearly have no fucking clue what they're doing. Also the 20 poison damage ability is a bit strong early on, I guess, with the clone being...
Overall it just shits on vengeance paladin.
Gives a ton of ways to get advantage, have a clone that allows them to get advantage against multiple targets instead of one (Though it takes an action I think), still gets haste...

Not crazy overpowered or anything, but just a poor design. They didn't need .. Three? Maybe four abilities based on giving you a load of advantage?

Conquest was just a bit naff. Didn't offer anything awfully interesting, and you can do conquest just as easily with a slight refluff on devotion, perhaps. No, well, conquest isn't a bad idea, it just really didn't feel interesting.

There wasn't a third UA paladin, right? If there was, it was too lame for me to remember.

Whoops, posted in old thread.

>>51922179
A lot of 4e's abilities would be extremely hard to justify the use of.

How the hell does everyone attack themself by you going past them? You deflect their swords into their faces? I can understand just one 'You counterattack after an enemy misses you' or possibly a gish going 'Your enemy must make a wis save or recklessly attack you with their reaction, making an attack with disadvantage before you make an attack against them'.. Or something.

But this is just 'You walk along and everybody suddenly feels compelled to maul their own face off, no save'.


If you want a battle tactical game with no sense, why not just pllay 4e?

>>51926944
>Nope
That sucks, all the current stuff needs more content imo, it sucks it's just one poor guy trying to jam a whole plane in magic into one small pdf

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>>51926875
It's just a bonus thing, it's nothing too special.

If you're that interested, Plane-Shift comes out roughly a month or two after the release of the second set of a MtG block.

The next block is Amonkhet and the second set of it, Hour of Devastation, will be released on July 14. This means we can roughly approximate Plane-Shift: Amonkhet's release date as being in the middle of August.

Right now, all we know about Amonkhet is that it's a very Egyptian plane with gods that have shiny metal animal-heads, that is ultimately ruled by a very smart, very angry and very ambitious dragon wizard.

>>51926964
>>51926315
Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, Mage Hand

Find Familiar, and two other enchantment/illusion, probably charm person or disguise self or tasha's hideous laughter.

Find familiar because familiars are great and you don't even need to use a spell slot on it every day.
Booming blade + Green flame blade because it's stronger than two-weapon-fighting if you are fairly sure you'll hit and you can't draw two weapons on your first turn anyway (Don't really need either if you're ranged and have crossbow expert, especially if you have archery)

So, is there any way to make a good Bladelock with the new invocations or is Hexblade just that much better?

>>51927081
>good Bladelock with the new invocations or is Hexblade just that much better

Why not just make a Hexblade Bladelock with the invocations? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

If you don't go Hexblade, you're still not too bad off. You can go Strength build and get a decent NotSmite option (or Dex build with the Fey bow), and the new invocations offer some improvements.

Still a decent option for multiclassing with Rogue for the Extra Attack Sneak Attack bonuses.

>>51927105
>Why not just make a Hexblade Bladelock with the invocations? The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Well yes, I realize that's an option. Personally I've just preferred other weapons than a run-of-the-mill greatsword. Just feels very stereotypical.

Also,
>Extra Attack Sneak Attack bonuses.
you'll have to forgive me, I just woke up so I'm not entirely following here.

>>51927048
I thought arcane tricksters couldn't take booming blade and green flame blade?

>>51927133
wait my mistake they can

>>51927133
I don't see why not. It's part of the wizard spell list, and there's no restriction on what wizard cantrips you can learn.

It's perfectly valid to be a ranged rogue and not use them, however.

>>51927126
>I've just preferred other weapons than a run-of-the-mill greatsword.
You can still use other weapons with the Hexblade build. The real advantage is not going MAD, because you can use Cha as your attack modifier. Just don't use the greatsword, it's still the best Bladelock patron.

>you'll have to forgive me, I just woke up so I'm not entirely following here.
Bladelocks can take Thirsting Blade at level 5 to get an extra attack.

Dual wielding Rogues with one of the weapons as a Pact Weapon, therefore, get Main Weapon Attack + Main Weapon Attack + Off-hand Weapon Attack.
That's three chances to hit with a Sneak Attack, which is the big advantage of Rogues.

Not to mention, Roguelocks get plenty of utility to line up Sneak Attack availability in melee range, and can take an archetype other than Arcane Trickster while still getting roughly the same ability set.

>>51927170
>You can still use other weapons with the Hexblade build. The real advantage is not going MAD, because you can use Cha as your attack modifier. Just don't use the greatsword, it's still the best Bladelock patron.
That's true, though I'd miss out on the pseudo-smite they have through the invocation weps.


Also the rogue thing is pretty interesting, though I just came out of a CoS campaign as a rogue so I don't think I'll go that route.

>>51927006
There's things like The Art of MtG: Zendikar, and I've heard people using that to build campaigns, but yeah, I'd love more support for Plane Shift.

>>51925895
hows the Kaladesh pyromancer?

>>51927000
Not that anon, but there is a very cool 4e ability that I wanted to find a way to implement into 5e. I think it was called Fearless Rescue, and essentially if you saw an enemy dropping an ally to 0 HP you could take a reaction to go over there and attack the attacker, plus your ally could immediately spend a healing surge (hit die) and regain an extra d6 hit points for every attack of opportunity you took along the way.

Essentially your heroic act would inspire your ally to get back on their feet.

>>51927215
it's pretty much a storm sorcerer refluff to fire with a little bit of tweak here and there.

>>51927000
>bloody path
Is it going to be another "I hate fun and took expertise in missing the point" thread? So soon?

It is a mechanically simple way to portray a very appropriate trickster ability. You turn their strength against them. It works better on an ogre than a hobgoblin.

>>51927239
phoenix origin seems better...

>>51927215
There are more creatures that are immune to fire damage than the one that resist it...

>>51927275
Isn't Phoenix Sorcerer universally regarded as the worst caster archetype, full stop?

>>51927304
what would fix it? mantle on a short rest? treat fire immunity as resistance?

>>51927275
Depend. Phoenix origin is a better nova with their 1 minute ability. They are cuck against creatures with Fire resistance / Immunity though.

>>51927270
Imagine if an enemy just walked right past your party and you say 'Okay, don't I get an opportunity attack?' and the DM is just saying, 'Oh, I forgot! But you all automatically miss. You literally can't hit him. You all feel an odd compulsion to hit them, and when you try you end up hitting yourselves like idiots. No, you don't get a save, you're just naturally dumb.'

It could be made appropriate if there's a save, it'd be more appropriate if creatures targeted other creatures rather than themselves and it'd be more appropriate if it was magical, and it'd be more appropriate if it didn't trigger a potentially infinite number of times, .. and didn't deprive every single enemy without a save of their reactions.


Battlemaster gets parry, riposte and evasive footwork, If you expect anything more than that, the closest you'd get is a high level gish archetype feature and that'd definitely have a save attached.

>>51927216
That doesn't sound so bad as a paladin archetype feature, actually.

>>51926664
We generally play from 1 go 20, and the levels from 14 to 18 are usually pitiful, and at 18, the druid is generally reduced to spellcasting in an animal form, trying to soak as much damage as possible, with a combination of sentinel and constant reapplied shapeshifts whenever the current form drops.

The new type has helped the currently 14 level druid stay on the curve, at least slightly.

I also really enjoy the fact that a druid is *better* than the creature itself. It is a magical form, which I automatically assume is magically enhanced beyond just magical attacks, so it would make sense to not just allow a lot of the feats to work, but also the attribute increases.

And no way his damage can come even close to rivalling the usual suspects - blaster Warlock, Assassin rogue, Fighter, Paladin... my group generally has a really high damage output, and while the druid is rarely the bottom of the damage chart, that is simply because of that guy who always plays a bard, supportive cleric, thief, etc, who just focuses on pure support, and generally falls behind in damage on purpose.

Yeah, he has utility, but so does everybody else in the group, especially in combat. And at higher levels, he just falls so far behind in every aspect but tankiness, that he literally becomes a meatshield. And even in the tanky department, by level 14, people always have the exact armour they want, and generally a +1 armour. So while that paladin with high burst damage from his smites, wearing full plate mail +1 and a shield, is not sitting with 2 additional HP bars, he does have a significantly better AC, and heavy armour master, making him a far better tank against weak enemies, and generally avoids a lot more hits than the druid in general.

It just often feels like I have to FIAT a lot of encounters to make sure the druid doesn't feel useless. And I've had 2 groups go to 20 with a druid, and I am hoping this won't end up as sad as the other two attempts.

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>>51927308
>1st Level
Ignite from Phoenix and Heart of Fire from Pyromancer. Maybe make it do fire damage equal to Charisma rather than fire damage equal to half sorcerer level.
>6th level
Fire in the Veins from Pyromancer.
>14th level
Nourishing Fire from Phoenix.
>18th level
Fiery Soul from Pyromancer.

There. Now you've got an okay fire-based sorcerer.

Speaking of Mystic you think the lurk will be an archetype ever for the Rogue

>>51926163
I thought we'd have My Stick

>>51926797
As a GM, I would never fucking allow that shit.

I have tried it once in a 1-off game, where the players had level 12 characters. The Glaive fighter with tunnel fighter, GWM and Sentinel. He held against a horde of 25 goblins, killing almost every single one with a single bonus action. The intention was that the horde would keep coming and force him back, but after killing 23 out of 25 before they even got to strike, I just said fuck it and stopped the attack.

Neveragain.jpg

It is arguably dome of the most bullshit broken shit that has come out of UA, especially since it is just a fucking feat that everybody has access to.

>>51926832
Obviously.

>>51927451
It's a fighting style, not a feat.

In addition to this, opportunity attacks only apply when a creature within your reach moves out of your reach.
Are you saying that all of these goblins just ran past him, into his reach and then out of his reach?
If yes, it's your fault, you designed an encounter for that fighting style to thrive.
If no, you misunderstood how opportunity attacks function.

>>51927489
Sentinel

>>51927451
>He wasn't even a rogue for sneak attack damage every single reaction attack
Pleb

But then again, you can't PAM with sneak attack, so eh.

It'd be much easier to just say,
Tunnel Fighter: 'Your first opportunity attack after the start of your turn due to an enemy moving out of your reach does not require using a reaction. From level 11 onwards, this becomes your first two opportunity attacks. You cannot make an opportunity attack against the same creature twice in one turn.'
Or.. Something to that flavour.

>>51927501
nothing about sentinel applies to anything that he said?

>>51927501
>SENTINEL
>You have mastered techniques to take advantage
>of every drop in any enemy's guard, gaining the
>following benefits:
>• When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack,
>the creature's speed becomes 0 for the rest of
>the turn.
>• Creatures within 5 feet of you provoke opportunity
>attacks from you even if they take the Disengage
>action before leaving your reach.
>When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack
>against a target other than you (and that target doesn't
>have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a
>melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

Opportunity attacks still only trigger when a creature chooses to move out of your reach, even if you have Sentinel.

>>51926038
Play the Mystic if it comes out today.

Have they ever iterated on any UA, or are they just pumping them out once then never returning?

>>51927501
>>51927489
>>51927451
>>51927521
>>51927536

That would be Polearm Master. You get an OA when people enter your reach

>>51927364
I guess it really is. What's your bonus to misrepresenting martial abilities?

You might actually not realize that OAs worked differently in 4e though. Oh, and rangers (hunters) actually have the ability you wanted to change it to. Not magical.

>>51927590
>You might actually not realize that OAs worked differently in 4e though
That doesnt mean its any less retarded to walk past someone and make them hit themselves.

>>51927567
A number of them made it into SCAG. I would be surprised if others didn't become a splat book at some point.

>>51927567
Mass combat got an update, the mystic got update. Not sure if scout counts as it moved from a fighter class to a rogue one. Favored soul got an update. Might be a few others.

>>51927567
they first released that Artificer as an option for wizard before they came back and made it its own class.

>>51927576
yeah but he didn't mention the guy having Polearm Master.

>>51925895

How do I get a fuckload of useful not-shit miniatures?

>>51927576
So, this guy is complaining about how OP Tunnel Fighter is when he gave his Glaive Fighter with the Tunnel Fighter fighting style and the GWM, PM and Sentinel feats the perfect encounter?

That's the sort of encounter I'd throw at the group specifically to give the Fighter with a very niche build a chance to shine.

>>51927637
How would you even narrate such thing?
>23 attacks in 6 seconds

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>>51927590
Enchantment wizard's ability allows you to redirect an attack WITHOUT it missing. With a reaction.
Ranger's ability allows you to redirect an attack IF it misses. With a reaction.
Fighter's ability allows you to counterattack IF it misses. With a reaction.
The ability you've shown allows you to redirect the attack regardless of if it would hit or not, without a save, to the very same creature that made the attack and do it as many times as you want in a turn, with a standard action.

Imagine the speed tabaxi meme build running through a town with everybody, peasants, merchants, blacksmiths, anyone unforunate enough to be somewhere easily accessible punching themselves in the face as this STUPID FUCKING CAT runs by. That's how stupid it is.

Just.. Just use evasive footwork and move between each enemy and attack each one with your fighter extra attacks and bonus actions and all of that.

>>51925984
>tweak the DC for success to be lower
Do people not normally do this? This is how I stop the wizard who's so weak he can barely carry his books from being able to break the door down while the fighter takes multiple swings to do.

>>51927364
>No, you don't get a save, you're just naturally dumb.'

4e has defenses instead of saves. And 4e powers, as a soft rule, are made to only require one roll per target (in this case, made by the target trying to hit its own AC), especially for AoEs.

So it could have been made to be an attack vs Will or Reflex, and then have the hit auto-hit, but then you'd just complain about "herpaderpa, I accidentally hit myself 100% of the time".

Or you could break the "1 roll/target" rule, but then you make a mediocre power even worse, and make it really annoying to roll two to-hits/target.

>>51927650
The glaive's a slashing weapon. I'd allow the player to narrate himself whirling about like a maelstrom of metal, effortlessly hacking apart the swarm of filthy goblins as it converged on him.

Besides, it's not like the same amount of goblins couldn't just be taken out by a Fireball or something. Is this only OP because a non-caster is doing it?

>>51927650
"You hold your glaive out at goblin head height and spin around like the deadliest ballerina in the history of the world."

>>51927650

He's taking out two to four with every swing of his glaive, maybe, spinning it around in a blur of bloody steel -- decapitating goblins with the blade and crushing their skulls with the pommel.

You could always limit the number of reactions to their strength/dexterity modifer (or proficiency bonus or something)

>>51927683
>Besides, it's not like the same amount of goblins couldn't just be taken out by a Fireball or something. Is this only OP because a non-caster is doing it?
It's OP because Fireball and other AOE spells use up a limited resource (spell slots), and have the drawback of potentially harming allies. This, on the other hand, only hits what you want to hit, and uses up no resources.

>>51927720
You... don't think that this is just slightly more circumstantial than casting Fireball?

>>51927683
No one complains about a Ranger using Volley or Whirlwind, so it has nothing to do with
>you hate martials.exe

So how do you fix the Mass Combat rules not being able to ballance out something like infinity goblins vs twenty good men?

>>51927739
Circumstantial, yes, but that doesn't make it less powerful.

>>51927654
>hear a loud boom in the distance
>blurry figure comes dashing down the main street
>trailing behind it comes a shock wave, leaving a path of destruction through the stalls
>try to take cover before it reachs you
>but it's too fast
>be blown away by the wind
>slowly get up, ears ringing
>look around you, the town's market is a mess
>catch your breath
>punch yourself in the face

Neat.

>>51927720
And is only useful when enemies run right into to it. This really seems like you are angry because it excelled in the area its meant to excel at. You could have just had some goblins hold back and shoot with bows or something instead of running into the blender they just watched 20 of their buddies run into and die instantly.

>>51927773
What's wrong with letting the fighter be really powerful in a very circumstantial situation?

>>51927669
Simply attacking yourslef in the first place is something that I'm not sure any effect specifically replicates. Even confusion makes you attack other people.

Though, by the wording, the attack is not specifically will unless the enemy targets will with their opportunity attacks.

The nearest, reasonable-for-5e ability I can think of is some sort of gish-ish 'Action, you shroud yourself with an aura of confusion and turn blades amongst allies in the chaos. Until the start of your next turn, whenever an enemy makes a melee attack against you, it must make a wisdom save. On a failure, it instead targets something else within range of your choice. If you provoke opportunity attacks, the enemy must make the save regardless of if they choose to attack, but creatures that try not to attack still make the save and still use their reaction to attack on a failure.'
Then per short or long rest as needed.

>>51927774
You can do a peasant railgun in 5e. It's no less stupid than this.

>>51927720
At the very least, this requires a feat and a fighting style slot which can never be changed and are permanently locked in place. Those are very, very limited resources.

Fireball requires a 3rd-level or higher spell slot that can be replenished by a long rest.

On one hand, you've got a Fighter permanently shoving himself into this anti-swarm niche at the cost of being less efficient in other areas.
On the other hand, you've got a caster who can just cast an anti-swarm spell, take a nap and then choose another spell on another day.

In most situations, you'd rather have a GWF Fighter than a TF-PM Fighter.

>>51927654

We did something like that at our table. Hasted Mobile Fire Invisible Elemental, gotta go fast, causing fire damage to dozens and dozens of mobs

>dude insisted in rolling each die individually, both for his touch damage, and the creature's starting round damage

kill me please

>>51927774
>TFW a satire bard was with him with a -5 to charisma, DC 3 saves
>Everybody succeeds their saves against mind-reading, everybody farts after hitting themselves in the face.

>>51927654
>The ability you've shown
Follow the thread's chain. OP is obviously bait. I'm just mocking the morons who are chomping on it cross-thread.
>allows you to redirect the attack regardless of if it would hit or not
The ability is mechanically simple. Instead of rolling a save, then an attack that has to miss, then another attack only if the enemy is arranged perfectly, (three dice just to see if a situational daily ability does anything at all,) you just roll one die to resolve each target.

>>51927824
As much as mechanical simplicity is nice, in 5e you don't want to force people to do things without saves. The simple solution there would to make it a 'all enemies make a save or take damage' spell instead, though.

Which wizard school/race is the most fun?

So far i'm considering a Gnome Illusionist.

>>51927637
You don't get it.

In a perfect scenario, and even a tiny bit of luck, a fighter in this setup can, wuth a bonus action, theoretically wipe out an infinite amount of hd1 creatures.

Fire ball can't do that. No spellcaster can get even remotely close to this kind of thing. There is no limit on this, just bonus action.

If I ever actually used this, I'd just limit it to 3 attacks at most. No ability should ever have an infinitely scaling ability like this. And 3 attacks is likely the proper limit as well, since in most ordinary cases, 3 attacks is more than enough, fits within the believable 6 seconds, and is still completely broken for a bonus action with no limit (but at least within the realm of reason)

Remember also that you can theoretically get 2 attacks on each creature if they try to run past you. 1 when they enter your reach, 1 when they try to leave your reach. With a proper build fighter, most of the shit AC enemies will be hit all the time, and you have a very possible chance of infinitely killing weak enemies as long as they keep coming.

In 6 seconds.

>>51925953
>In this case the Fighter (The only one with common sense) gave an argument against some thugs trying to rob them that boiled down to "I already have an arrow notched and your 30 feet away, plus we've got a Wizard". His charisma's only 8 and he has zero social proficiencies but I feel like I should've thrown him a bone for this.

The way I've run it since forever is that intimidate is NOT your ability to be scary because a lvl 1 peasant would have to be a complete idiot to not be scared of the lvl 20 dragonslayer no matter how low his Charisma or how few ranks he has in intimidate - everybody in our little band of murderers is very scary at all times.

Intimidate is instead the ability to be USEFULLY scary.

If you draw a sword on a guard and succeed on intimidate, he's scared and will do what you command
If you draw a sword on a guard and failboat your intimidate, he's scared and will scream in panic, alerting the other guards.

>>51927773
>TIL glaives do 28+ damage

>>51927803
What I mean is, it'd be one roll the Rogue makes against a target (either against Will to imply they are being tricked, or Reflex to imply that he directs their motions himself) OR/AND the enemy makes a basic attack targeting himself.

>The nearest, reasonable-for-5e ability I can think of is some sort of gish-ish 'Action, you shroud yourself with an aura of confusion and turn blades amongst allies in the chaos. Until the start of your next turn, whenever an enemy makes a melee attack against you, it must make a wisdom save. On a failure, it instead targets something else within range of your choice. If you provoke opportunity attacks, the enemy must make the save regardless of if they choose to attack, but creatures that try not to attack still make the save and still use their reaction to attack on a failure.'
>Then per short or long rest as needed.

Or it's from one of those silly 80s action flicks featuring kids where the bad guys inexplicably hit themselves while trying to catch them.

Or possibly Jackie Chan on steroids.

>>51927850

The one you roleplay the best


That isn't Enchantment.

>>51927855
Yes, in an absolutely perfect scenario the fighter can do some really cool shit.

If you want simulationism, play some other system. It's trivially easy to stretch the narrative a little to let the fighter wreck even dozens of goblins in one turn.

Like, what, do you also enforce in-combat talking so that no-one can say sentences longer than six seconds per turn?

>>51927855
>wipe out an infinite amount of hd1 creatures

What kind of DM doesn't just have the goblins start throwing knives and rocks after the fifth casualty?

>>51927855
>There is no limit on this, just bonus action.

You mean aside from an infinite amount of creatures willingly walking into a blender, not around it.

Or shoot it with bows.

Or throw rocks at it.

>>51927855
>In a perfect scenario, and even a tiny bit of luck, a fighter in this setup can, wuth a bonus action, theoretically wipe out an infinite amount of hd1 creatures.

Heres a tip. DON'T THROW PERFECT SITUATIONS AT YOUR PARTY! It excels at one very specific thing, enemies running right into it. All you need is a few guys with bows and the build is now not very useful.

So anyone ever had a campaign were they go through the multiverse like say to faerun to greyhawk and so on?

>>51927873
If it's a horde large enough to make it seem silly, its going to be too large to stop in a single round.

>>51927837
>Turning Jackie Chan physical comedy into lightning bolt.
You're a monster, you know.

>>51927855
>No spellcaster can get even remotely close to this kind of thing.
Wall. Of. Fire.

>>51927899
NO
FUN
ALLOWED

This is 5e, who said you were allowed FUN?

>>51927896
The fighter is just spinning his glaive around in a windmill of death. If the goblins run into it, of course they'll all die, no matter how big the horde is.

>>51927855
>In 6 seconds.

Small creatures occupy 5*5 squares, and have a 25 movement

If a glaive fighter has a 10 foot reach, then that means he kills a goblin, but then that goblin provides both half cover, and dificult terrain for the next goblin

1st goblin, 10 feet, 2nd goblins, 5 feet, 3rd goblin, and now they don't have enough movement to go past the fighter
4th goblin, half cover, 5th goblin full cover, 6th goblin onwards gets to attack the fighter freely, 7th goblin, there's no more room for goblins in the tunnel

>>51927891
My players came out of Barovia to end up in Eberron. It was, uh, disorienting for them. They had a lot of fun roleplaying it.

>>51927855
A creature too strong to be one-shot moves into the TF-PM Fighter's reach.
A particularly smart creature spots that the TF-PM Fighter has entered a defensive stance and calls out for his buddies to not approach.
Not all of the creatures try to run into melee with the TF-PM Fighter and instead start hurling projectiles from a distance.
The creatures decide that the TF-PM Fighter is too much trouble and find a way around him to attack the others instead.
The creatures just decide to fucking leg it rather than deal with the TF-PM Fighter's bullshit.

The perfect scenario only exists in the DM allows the perfect scenario to exist. The TF-PM Fighter can only potentially kill infinite 1HD creatures if the DM decides to throw infinite 1HD creatures at the TF-PM Fighter. If this occurs, this should be seen as an opportunity for the TF-PM Fighter to enjoy the spotlight.

Theory doesn't matter in actual games of D&D.
If a player brings in a Sonic Tabaxi, there's ways of punishing, rewarding and negating that character's abilities.
If a player brings in a Nuclear Druid, there's ways of punishing, rewarding and negating that character's abilities.
If a player brings in an unoptimized PHB Beast Master Ranger, there's ways of punishing, rewarding and negating that character's abilities.
If a player brings in a Tunnel Fighter with Polearm Mastery, there's ways of punishing, rewarding and negating that character's abilities.

Theory doesn't matter.

Or even if they could move freely, and they start at melee range, you cant have infinity goblins because at 25 speed, in a round, you can only move 5 goblins through the fighter's space, which mean you cap out at around nine or ten goblins


Unless you're DM'ing lightspeed goblins, that collapse into a corpse singularity by having that much dead mass into a single enclosured space

Which is okay, I'm pretty sure that's how Zhul, the Corpse Star was born

>>51926238
How often do you roll wild surge?

>>51925895
anyone seen this yet?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786966211/

>>51927960
>Nuclear Druid

Infinity Damage Nuclear Druid vs Bard with Counterspell can still go either way

>>51927304
I would rank it as such
The entire point of the archetype is to launch yourself and your dumb d6 hit die into the biggest mass of dudes and hope that your Allahu Akbar kills them before you die a second time.

>>51927910
Not. A. Bonus. Action.

And it has liked uses.

A Fireball can kill any number of commoners within a 20ft. radius where the spell is cast.
A Tunnel Fighter with Polearm Master can (potentially) kill any number of commoners within a 30ft. (or 60ft. if they all take an action to Dash into adjacency with him) radius of the Tunnel Fighter, excluding the area within a 10ft. radius of the Tunnel Fighter which is within the Tunnel Fighter's reach.

The Tunnel Fighter certainly can't kill infinite creatures, unless these creatures have infinite speed.

>>51928029
Does it fucking matter what action it uses up? You are doing all the damage on their turn anyway. They are the same thing, you use your turn to set up a killzone and then this army of apparently insane goblins run to their deaths.

>>51928047

have we finally found the perfect counter for the Sanic Tabaxi?

>>51928068
Yes?
Action economy is a resource, and Bonus Actions are less valuable than Actions, and that's ignoring the even more valuable resource, a spell slot capable of casting Wall of Fire.

>>51927650
>How would you even narrate such thing?

Tell you what - as soon as you figure out how to narrate 23 goblins all running to the same 5' area in 6 seconds in super coordination without sounding silly, I'll tell you how I'd narrate preventing them from doing that.

Alternative answer:
>15: And he found a new glaive leaning against an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew a twenty and three goblins therewith.

>16: And the Fighter said, With the glaive leaning against an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the glaive leaning against an ass have I slain twenty goblins and three.

>>51928072
>Sire, the catfolk are invading
>Ready the army
>They're going to be here in an hour sire, they're doing the fast thing again
>Hold on, I've got just the guy
How many sonic tabaxi could a PAM tunnel fighter kill if he also had to clear a kobold warren at the same time?

>>51928068
You are also forgetting the fact that a fucking wall of fire is clearly fucking stupid to rub through, while a fighter is just 1 dude, and 50 goblins are unlikely to immediately look at him, and just assume that he can turn into a fucking blender and kill everything that comes within his general vicinity.

And it clearly matters what type of action it is, because he can move, unload 2/3 attacks, and then turn on his murderstance. With 0 penalties.

>>51927855
>There is no limit on this, just bonus action.

Sure there is a limit - for example, you cannot kill more creatures than can fit into a circle the size of their movement speed. Goblins, IIRC, have 30 movement. Assuming they're also spending their Action to move, they can move 60 feet. You can kill no more goblins than can fit in a 60 foot circle.

And that depends on the cooperation of the goblins in their own demise. The Wizard can kill them easy even if they don't cooperate.

>>51928092
You are apparently fighting an army of infinite suicidal goblins, the fuck does it matter if the fighter has his main action to spend, he is going to diddly with it compared to slaughter of damage he is doing on the enemies turns which is the same as the wall because its will just boil down to goblin approaches death trap and dies.

>>51928120
According to the whinger, infinite.

>>51928133
>I mean I just watched 20 of my buddies die instantly when they approached that guy but maybe I will get through!

My fucking argument at the start was enemies wouldn't run into him in the first place. Don't try pull the 'well they wouldn't walk into it' argument now as it is clearly been established by this point that this is an endless stream of suicidal goblins willing to run at the person they just saw kill 20 of their buddies. It is already been pointed out by several posters that the tunnel fighter only excels at this specific encounter of infinite goblins running to their deaths no matter how futile so if they are smart enough to turn away from fire they should be smart enough to not run into the death machine man and instead just shoot him with arrows.

>>51928133
>You are also forgetting the fact that a fucking wall of fire is clearly fucking stupid to rub through, while a fighter is just 1 dude

Ah, there's the disconnect.

You thought you were playing 100-point GURPS.

D&D is a game of heroic fantasy. "One Dude" should terrify you more than an army of trolls.

A single knight guarding a bridge means you go the other way because his name is Horatius and he is here to teach you something about heroism.

>>51925968
Something to look out for is the modern magic Unearthed Arcana, that will give you so ideas for your archfey.

Very high charisma, that's a core stat to any of the patrons of Warlocks. They must have the strongest force of personality a mortal may ever see, so above 20, but under 27, I'd say 23/24 depending on if you see this archfey casting spells at the party.

High Dex fair Con and over 16 under 20 Wis and Int. Str is reliant on body type.

>>51928259

I just have my Winter Court Archfey be a 20th level caster that turns into an ancient white dragon


Worked for Maleficent

Just use this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/462kev/the_psionic_handbook_a_homebrew_continuation_of/
It's a pdf handbook which ports stuff like soulknife and psion to 5e by building Mystic with several archetypes to level 20.

>>51928370
>no archive
kill yourself

>>51928120
On one hand, this is hilarious.

On the other hand, the tabaxi need to spend a turn still for their speed thing to come back, so it's actually not going to raise their average speed, only their "burst speed".

>>51928047
To move into the Tunnel Fighter's reach, not just the Tunnel Fighter's square, the attacking goblins can be up to 70ft. away, because the Tunnel Fighter's reach extends up to 10ft away from his square.

>Area of a circle = π*r^2

Counting 5ft. as 1 for the purpose of this.

>70ft. = 14
>10ft. = 2
>If r = 14, A = 615.75
>If r = 2, A = 12.57
>615.75 - 12.57 = 603.18

The PAM Tunnel Fighter can (potentially) kill just over six hundred goblins in a turn. Absolutely no more than that.

>>51928092

This is retarded. So the fighter can do it with a bonus action, ho hum. So he's got his standard action left, ho hum.

As a 9th level Wizard, I can just flood the tunnel with cloudkill and gleefully munch on candied purple mushrooms as 1,2,3,4 HD goblins choke to death on noxious vapours. At level 12, I can do it repeatedly.

All in all, what you said is not a counterargument for the use of tunnel fighter, but a shining example of how not to design an encounter. And ultimately, if your players find a clever way to breeze through something,.. why is it a problem? I recall my group cut two thirds of a dungeon because they ended up a) chatting up an NPC which they were meant to fight and b) deciding to enter through the fucking roof. I don't think anyone was poorer for the experience, and ultimately, it was rewarding clever thought in a very real way.

tl;dr it's still tea-weak. Get your head out of your rear.

>>51928417

I feel like reading that thor comic where Skurge sacrifices himself to hold the hords of hell

Alright, the time on the west coast is just after 6:30 am. We probably still have hours before today's UA drops.

>>51926038
You can't be killed while in Wild Shape, just reverted back to your original form. Bring your original character to the next session.

>>51928491
Disintegrate (and power word kill) rule overwrite wildshape rule. If his hp is 0, he is dead.

>>51928491
Read Wildshape rule again anon.

> As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious.

It only prevent him from being unconscious, not DEAD.

>>51927960
Who cares. This stance clearly allows an ideal fighter to dominate an infinite amount of spherical goblins in vacuum.

>>51928417
What if the fighter is floating 70ft above the ground in 0g?

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>>51925895
>be UA mystic
>follow Path of the Immortal
>doesn't become immortal

>>51928543
Well that depends, do these goblins have a flight speed, motherfucker?

Kind of stupid to ask here but what are the flaws of 2e.

I started with 3.5 so as I see it the flaws of the other versions are:
3.5: Caster supremacy and complex rules.
Pathfinder: Meant to fix 3.5, didn't.
4e: Designed for an online platform then the creator of said platform shot himself.
5e: Simplified/Streamlined too far.
(feel free to correct me on any of that)

>>51928551
Let's say they're all wearing Boots of Flying or something.

>>51928421

I mean, by the time a fighter gets all the required feats for Tunnel Fighter Blender, one's Create Bonfire damage is also about the same and that's a cantrip

Twin it and you just made that entire archetype kind of useless

>>51926080
>Kobold Dragon Sorcerer who casts Polymorph a lot.

Aw hey, that's my guy, Ferrovax

He keeps polymorphing into dinosaurs, the little guy

>>51928120
is the polearm made of diamond?
is the fighter motivated?
are some of the kobolds an accomplished dragon-hunting party?

>>51927636
Buy a 3D printer. It's probably cheaper in the long-run.

>>51928565
Without showing my working, the number of goblins wearing Winged Boots that would able to attack a Tunnel Fighter wearing Winged Boots in an empty and infinite three-dimensional space, within 70ft. of the Tunnel Fighter without being within 10ft. of the Tunnel Fighter, is 11460.

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>>51927636
Binder clip.

>>51928556
Way too fucking complex.

Still my favourite, but god damn, those rules were not easy for new players, and even veteran players kept forgetting things.

It does have the deepest character customization of all the editions, unless you count 3.5/PF and their retarded amounts of splat books "customization.

It also isn't terrible well balanced. For one, the level caps were dumb and pointless, and made 0 sense. Second, druids were fucking broken, and a well built Cleric could fuck over everything from level 1.

Wizards were also really powerful, but no where near as bad. They instead suffered from being pointless in combat for the first 4 levels, being forced to have someone carry their weight in combat, until they actually started to go off, and even then, they didn't actually surpass most martials, until you got to 9th level or so.

And they never surpassed druids and clerics.

Fluff wise, the greatest flaw was how unplayable a pot of it was. Paladin were strictly Lawful stupid, and required the player to be an absolute retard and nazi to play properly.

Druids were just unplayable, period. They were required to be True Neutral, and we're not allowed to pick sides, and had to always maintain balance in all things - so a properly played druid would betray his own party, if the party had the odds too much in their favour.

The alignment system was pretty much the primary flaw of the system, to be honest. But that is thankfully pretty easy to fix with some common sense.

>>51928548
>pact of the blade
>it's actually a hammer

>>51928728
But let's say they're in the Far Realms.

How many goblins could fit into a 70ft-by-70ft-by-70ft-by-70ft hypersphere, excluding the fighter's range in four-dimensional space?

>>51928749
>it is actually a mass of tentacles

I love the new invocations >>51928768

>>51928737
>Second, druids were fucking broken, and a well built Cleric could fuck over everything from level 1.

So from 2e to 3e to 3.5e to Pathfinder no one managed to fix CODZILLA, how do the designers not fix this shit?

Thanks for the response I might give the 2e rules a bit of a read.

>>51928749
> Oath of the crown
> Is actually following an elected doge

>>51928768
And let's go even further and say they've all drank potions of haste and potions of longstrider, and the potion miscibility effect doubled the numerical bonus of Longstrider.

>>51928836
If everything was balanced then nobody would talk about it and a lot of people would get bored with it. A slight unbalanced nature gives controversy and keeps people interested.

People always posting homebrews and fixes and getting excited over outdoing another "better" class keeps he game exciting and gives goals to theory crafters.

A little bit of unbalance is fun, a lot is not fun. Grabbing Pact of the Blade and going into melee with leather armor and d8 health and holding your ground with a fighter is fun.

I think small imbalance is important to games and keeps people going, but making sure it stays small is crucial.

>>51928836
Because both classes are inherently broken in design.

A cleric is like a paladin, in that they can wear heavy armour and use a slew of different and powerful weapons. They are also full casters, and can just pray for whatever they want, unlike a wizard that needs to know the spells before he can prepare them. They also are meant to do well in close combat, so their THAC0 in 2nd was almost the same as a fighter.

A druid is much the same, except the cleric was pretty MAD, where the druid relies on far less stats, and can just shapeshift to make up for inferior stats. Couple it with the fact that druids could get animal companions, like a fucking bear, and you had a full caster with a pet fighter, and the ability to turn into a fighter himself if he needed to.

That is super difficult to balance. They somewhat succeeded with 5e, but at the expense of taking away elements the class used to have, and generally limit the power of their shapeshifts.

Some concepts are just inherently difficult to balance, and a full caster that can approach a fighter in his CC abilities... yeah that won't be balanced, ever.

5e fixed it largely by buffing the fuck out of martials, while leaving the druid and cleric at much the same level as they uses to.

For someone who's just getting started in running, what's the best way to piece together a scenario? I wanna run something simple but fun.

Tell me why Bladesinger sucks and I shouldn't pick it.

>>51925920
>Ilithids don't fit D&D
>Druergar don't fit D&D
>Githyanki don't fit D&D
>A caster version of the Monk doesn't fit D&D

Whatever you say.

>>51928966
You have to be an elf, and elfs suck.

>>51928987
Okay ignoring the elf bit, assuming it's not locked to them because stolen techniques, etc.

>>51928966
It's boring.

Instead of being able to change the outcome of fate, able to conjure any sort of tool you desire, able to beguile your foe and keep them locked in trance or any other manner of interesting things, you just get to boost your AC whenever you like. You're not even able to mess around the identity of your spells like a lore wizard.

Just go Bladesinger if you want your unique, special ability to be "I don't want to have the disadvantages of being a wizard."

>>51926163
Playing LMoP with a weird Eberron-like level of tech due to the inclusions of Artificers and all the old magical items that are supposed to be floating around the Spellforge.

In the first three sessions, our Battlemaster missed more than 90% of his attacks. DM cooked up a sword with some kinda power gem in the guard that charges up whenever you miss. The next time you hit while holding a charge (up to two), it deals +1d8 damage per charge.

We also made the guy quartz crystal glasses, under the assumption that he's farsighted.

>>51929005
>Lore wizard

>>51929005
Yeah, I looked at Bladesinger and thought "Cool!"

But honestly you're just trying to be a fighter after being a wizard.

It's like picking Bladesinger puts being wizard in the backseat.

>>51928993
All of its abilities are amazing if you plan on being within 5 feet of the enemy and smacking them with pointy things. If you don't plan on being within 5feet of the enemy and smacking it with withings it is useless and you should not get it.

Bonus to concentration saves is the only damn thing that would help you and you can still roll a 2.

I've never played caster before. Which are some good ones and archtypes to start with?

How would you stat a Rapier where the user can eject the blade after stabbing and the blade explodes. The user can reload the blade as a bonus action.

>>51929021
Now what's wrong with Lore wizard?

>>51928029

>Quickened Spell

But it can be. Regardless, you're still dumb for getting pissy for numerous reasons that everyone who has replied to you already stated.

>>51929021
Lore wizard, loremaster wizard, loremaster, whatever.

Being able to make your Fireball do acid damage or make your Grease require a Charisma saving throw is more interesting than "I'm just a normal wizard but I can fight good too!"

My party consists of a warlock and a wizard they expect me to pick a tank but fuck that.

Should I play a Bard or a Sorcerer?

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>>51926017
Last paragraph, fuckboy. D&D was inspired by the kind of 60s and 70s fantasy that was inextricably linked to what would late be known as "sci-fi".

Travel to other PLANETS was the norm, not merely other planes. Magic WAS often psionics, at least when no distinction was drawn between them. ESPers were everywhere, and the root cause of all the problems was often some ancient, pre-apocalyptic technology, or assholes from space.

Blackmoor, 2E's Mystara, and Dark Sun (which is particularly psionics-heavy and Barsoomian) were emblematic of the stories which originally inspired D&D--not fucking Dragonlance/Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms.

>>51929036
go moon druid

>>51929052
>interesting

Being able to turn all damage to Force and have Strength based Feebleminds, so interesting.

>>51929063
No.

>>51929055
Pally
Don't be a fag

>>51926970

>1st lvl as arcane trickster

>>51929055
Valor bard with a dip into 2 levels of warlock and the moon bow invocation and some other goodies, steal Swift Quiver with magical secrets and grab Sharpshooter.
Enjoy 600 feet effective range paladin smite bard.

>>51929036
Cleric is amazing and wonderful and will never treat you wrong. Literally every domain of theirs is good, even the "bad" one is good.

Bards are powerful but it takes some knowledge of the game to use bardic inspiration to its full capacity.

Druids are good too though land Druids are kind of simple and moon Druids aren't really a caster feel.

>>51929072
>more interesting
You missed the keyword.

Even what you're suggesting is better than "I can add intelligence to AC and to attack roll and I can attack twice too."

>>51926555
>making Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma abilities that are actually worth putting points into as a non-caster
Uh, "having Wis saves" is important for non-casters. Cha and some skill proficiencies are also the only way the martials will influence the game outside of combat.

Any improvement to those stats can only serve to make casters better. You say "make them worth putting points in for non-casters", but casters will benefit all the same, and to a greater extent due to their increased use for those stats.

Now, you could come up with some changes that simply don't do anything for casters or even gishes, but that's making rules along an arbitrary distinction.
>ONLY Fighters, Barbs, and Rogues can make use of this shit
But that would be necessary.

>>51929040
How good do you want this to be? Like other weapons can still compare?

>>51929096
Loremaster is as interesting as a Druid in 3.5.

>>51929082
Nope. Dont want to

Why should I when they don't give a shit about party dynamic

>>51929055
Moon Druid/Cleric makes everyone happy. Warlock for repelling blast to keep enemies at bay and make sure to use range effectively.

>>51929117
Still more interesting than Bladesinger.

>>51929094
I'm really surprised Wizard Sorc and Warlock were not recommended.

Maybe I innately wanted to play one of those

btw which is the "bad" cleric domain?
which is the best?

>>51929135
This isn't 4e pick whatever class you want and ignore "roles".

Tell me, what are your favorite meme builds.

>>51929181
necro wiz + animal shapes druid
oc

>>51929036
Warlocks are fun if you like the flavour and pick a decent patron and base your character around it. Raven Queen looks top tier.

>>51929158
trickery and death are both bad, but the former more so. life, storm, war and grave are all extremely good in my opinion, but i'm a bit biased

>>51929158
Well wizard is as overpowered as usual.

Divination or Lore Mastery and you're laughing.

>>51929158
Trickery is "bad" but it's still really good, invoke duplicity can be very powerful when used cleverly, advantage on stealth checks can be given to the rogue to make extreme sneak and take off the disadvantage of the fighter. D8 poison damage at level 8 is annoying cause so many are immune/resistance but it's still just a d8 thrown on for free.

It's really good but people don't play clerics to support sneaky people.

Life Cleric is the "best" as in it is the best healer and being a typical Cleric, you heal a ton, heal yourself, and can still smack shit. Your spells can give a ton of utility and it keeps everyone alive and trudging on.

My personal favorite is war Cleric for faux extra attack and second favorite is knowledge for expertise in intelligence skills.

Sorcerers and Wizards can be complicated for the first time playing a caster tons of spells for Wizard and metamagic and sorcery points can hurt your brain if you are completely new to it.

>>51929175
Guess my party will learn that the hard way by expecting me to fulfill 2/3 of the holy trinity.

Im gonna stealth and hide and wait for one of them to die.

Holy Trinity is cancer

>>51929181
I kind of like the Blade/singer-lock monk with a Dex-using Mace of Dispater.

The fastest knockdowner in the history of history.

>>51929052
My main issue is how bad most people are at using this.

I had a player pick the lore master wizard. I allowed it, provided he could explain what he did.

Most spells are piss easy to explain away - a fireball could be a massive noxious blast of poison, or it could be a suddenly electrical discharge centered on the point of your choosing.

Yet this guy kept saying "I throw a frozen/poisoned/necrotic fireball"

Go fuck yourself. If you pick a lore wizard, you better explain to me how you angle your spell so it uses a different element or save. I am perfectly fine with literally anything within the limits of their abilities, as long as you at least put some fucking effort into it.

It is the same with Bards who keep saying "Hurr bardic inspiration" - come on man, it is SO easy, and you can't even think of a simple inspiring act that can justify it? A battle roar, a song while you fight, or even just saying you spend your bonus action to make your sword swing more flashy, and give off an almost whistling sound embued with magic.

>>51929116
Well its around the rare item scarcity

>>51929181
Muscle Warlock.

So what exactly is it about the PHB Ranger that's so terrible out of curiosity?

>>51929298
elaborate please, senpai

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>>51927650
>I am become Guan Yu, Anime as Fuck

>>51929310
Beastmaster Ranger is subpar with a pet that dies when you breathe on it too hard. Everything else was meh.

>>51929310
mainly the Beastmaster's animal being kinda trash.

>>51928119
>the goblins charged the Fighter as though he was a 65" flatscreen TV for $99 as the doors of the mall were battered down on Black Friday

>>51929328
>>51929339
One of my players picked Beastmaster Ranger for LMOP, is there a good homebrew fix for the pet?

>>51929363
UA Ranger

>>51929363
Unearthed Arcana: Revised Ranger.
Complete with advantage on initiative, beast gets to increase Ability Scores and gets to attack multiple times.

>>51929363
UA Revised Ranger sorts it out.

>>51929363
>pet has its own reaction and can make opportunity attacks
>pet's AC and AB increases with Ranger's proficiency, pet gains half whatever the Ranger does on level up
>pet's damage equals whatever weapon the Ranger is currently wielding, including magical effects
>Ranger can replace any of his attacks, be they main action attacks, bonus action attacks, or opportunity reactions with an attack from his pet
Basically you are one character existing in two places and can lock two enemies down with your opportunity attacks instead of one, or run interference for your own bow-wielding self.

>>51927442
To be honest, I'm not a fan of how the Mystic is looking after the last playtest version and making Psionic archetypes for Fighters/Rogues/Paladins/Barbarians would be preferable to me.

>>51929323
High Strength, high con, whatever charisma you can afford.

Take a two - hander - the Hexblade invocation is awesome.

Take spells that give buffs and utility, fuck damage spells, you have a fuck huge sword, use that instead.

Get heavy armour ASAP. Easy, first ASIs you pick medium and heavy armour, for access to said heavy armour, AND +2 strenght, which you were gonna boost anyway.

>Captcha tells me to highlight a stop sign
No Captcha. You can't stop me.

Is there no Unearthed Arcana today, then?

>>51929328
Yeah, I picked it because it sounded awesome.

My GM kept killing the pet. Like, we are 9th level, and I am on my 19th pet. Kinda hard to feel any kind of "bond" with a pet that just constantly dies.

I feel like a quick fix would allow you to turn it into a spirit animal, that lingers on death, allowing a 1 hour ritual to bring it back. If only for the fluff of not having this detached ranger, constantly just finding himself a new pet, because the old ones keep dying.

>>51929572

It's only 8:30am dude, fucking relax.

In a long running campaign, has your DM givem you story related freebies and abilities?

>>51929609
>8:30am
Your time zone is shit fampai

>>51929624

Not my timezone, but is WOTC timezone.

>>51929605
>I feel like a quick fix would allow you to turn it into a spirit animal, that lingers on death, allowing a 1 hour ritual to bring it back.
This is exactly what I've done in my games.

The Ranger performs a SPOOKY NATURE RITUAL that turns a living animal he's bonded with into a fucking spirit. When it "dies", it can be recorporealized over a long rest. It's still your childhood hound or whatever, though, but its form and spirit are sustained by your own and NATURE MAGIC, so it's not like, pet-lichdom or anything.

>>51929624
>he doesn't want to have hours upon hours of advanced notice of the world ending

>>51929609
Well, that's when they post all the MtG articles each day, so...

>>51929328
I agree with this completely. The pets are weak as fuck and useless.

You have to foregoe your own action for it to attack? While it's that weak and useless? Fuck that.

Even the chick on critical role never uses her bear because a more casual player like her can tell he's fucking useless.

>>51929605
Lucky for you, revised ranger does just that. It takes components but you bring your pet back to life.

>>51929685
>make the minotaur battlemaster or your cotm druid your pet

>>51929614
In my 1-20 campaign we got a bunch of freebies, but we faced equally powerful foes. I had a fang dragon, bonus action smite for free per encounter, and I ended up running a city thanks to folk hero background.

>>51929614
All the time.

I am a GM, and my level 16 party has a ton of perks and abilities they shouldn't have, but got for free.

One even has 2 phantom levels of Bladesinger. Human Lore bard who somehow ended up as a Gish, who earned enough respect with elves that they insisted on teaching her.

Let's not make a new thread until the arcana releases. Just a little bit of patience.

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>>51929697
Unfortunately WOTC thought of that.

>>51929614
Nope, never.
In fact, back when we used to play Pathfinder, we mostly ended up with something like 4 magical items in the party by lvl 6.
He's a terrific DM in almost all aspects, except he's stingy as fuck with "freebies" and magical items.

>>51929744
>make the Chultan Barbarian your pet
okay i'm going back to /pol/ now

>>51926606
The undefined bits are a consequence of an update to the OGL sheet. Right now they're only visual. In the future I'll have that fixed and include a way to force-overwrite existing stat blocks.

>>51929715
>Human Lore bard who somehow ended up as a Gish
What?

Why. Why not just pick valour. I don't

>mystic fits perfectly it's exactly the same as magic reeeeee
then why do you need a new class when you can just play a spellcaster and call it something else

>>51929778
I just want to kill things with my mind is that too much to ask.

>>51929777
>judging someone else's campaign that may have lasted as long as a year in mere seconds

This happens at least two dozen times a day here I'm sure

>>51929614
Yeah.

My DM thought it would be fun to give my Fiend Warlock Wild Magic on cantrips and we fluffed it as the Fiend being more of an asshole than usual.

My Warlock was a suicide bomber with his eldritch blasts.

>>51929785
play a wizard or a sorcerer or a warlock or a cleric or a druid or a sun soul monk and fluff it
I'd rather get a new martial class with more options like BM fighter than yet another unnecessary splitting-hairs "I have magic powers" class

>>51929785

No, not at all

Which is why you can just play goo lock

Quick question, what can I play to be a pure buff/debuffer? Probably some kind of bard, but there are a few options.

>>51929814
But they use magic I want to use MIND POWERS.

Look if you don't agree with them in the setting then you can just keep them out of the setting in your games, but many others do want it in their setting so there you go.

I'm sure there will be a fighter archetype for it I know there will be.

>>51929834
Paladin

>>51929834
Wizard, bard, any full caster really.

>>51929090
I like it

Thanks anon.

>>51929853

Psionics is spellcasting.

>>51929853
Sohei is the Fighter psi-archetype.

>>51929749
Eh, by level 6 I likely wouldn't have given much either. It is usually not before level 10 or so that I start going nuts with freebies. Before then, you aren't really the type of group that would get showered with presents.

>>51929777
Eh, kinda long story.

It was supposed to be a very supportive bard, but she had 14 dex, and used her rapier a bit at first. By level 4, they found a magic rapier that added +1 to hit and damage, and made a singing noise when swung, which added the benefit of having advantage against all creatures relying on their hearing instead of sight, who in turn got disadvantage if they failed a con save.

Instead of giving it to the Dark elf Assassin, they gave it to the bard. She used it until they got to level 16, and it all but replaced her other offensive actions. By level 16, she had raised her dex a bit, and while she was primarily meant to support, she was a pretty decent fighter.

It culminated in the party saving an entire village of elves, and in front of the highest ranking elves, she swooped in and soloed an Orc leader about to kill a very important elf, by rolling 3 crit on 4 attacks, and just smashing him completely without taking a hit.

She got the level 2 abilities of the Bladesinger class as a reward.

>>51929871
It's something I've had my eye on for a while, mostbly because my favourite character I ever made was a ranged paladin back in PF.

This sort of scratches that itch a bit.
And you're welcome.

>>51929853

Psionics, much like Ki, Shapeshanging or Innate Spellcasting, is a type of magical spellcasting

>>51929889
>Before then, you aren't really the type of group that would get showered with presents.
Our latest Curse of Strahd run had us with 2 generic magical weapons at lvl 9.

Lvl 9 is also the highest we've gotten before we get exploded.

>>51929135
Play a melee shillelagh tomelock. Tank, blast, and wiz all over them.

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>>51929884
It's powermanifesting, retard.

>>51929090
>>51929890
Could you give me a more indepth breakdown perhaps?

Start with bard, dip lock for level 2&3? Or start lock and multiclass at 3?

>>51929834
Bard is best for that, but Clerics and Wizards can also work well for that.

>>51929884
>>51929897
>one minute and three seconds apart
>replies to the same post

>unnecessary space between link and response
I spend two PP to manifest Exacting Response:
Why are you samefagging, Anon?

>>51929927
Depends on what you're after.
I'd say start Bard incase you really want to cash in on all the skills and whatnot. Nothing is really set in stone aslong as you get the two levels of warlock in as soon as possible, either way you'll have the basic build down by lvl 3 regardless of which you start with.

Did not having a dump stat ever matter in your games? Like you have no stat below 10?

What is the best dump stat for a dex based Battle Master?

>>51930052
I mean, it depends if you're sacrificing something else to not have a dump stat.

You'd be hard-pushed to have a character who actually benefited from all stats as it is. The only one who would need to multiclass probably multiple times, and at that point, you're missing out on ASIs, your stats are gonna stay low, you won't get many features, you're gonna end up screwed.

I mean, by itself it's not an issue. It's what you're giving up to do it.

>>51930052
I do that just because having a -1 in a stat triggers me unless it's explicitly on purpose, like my 8 DEX Firbolg Reinhardt guy who's meant to be as dexterous as a train crash.

>>51930111
Unless you're a Wizard or an archetype that needs it, the answer is always Int.

>>51930111
Charisma. You can always make your social rolls with other stats. I wouldn't dump Int solely because you can never rely on the fucking Wizard in the party to roll well on Arcana.

>>51930111
I dumped cha on my feral tiefling ranger.

>>51930132
This is an especially safe choice for battle masters. There's nothing you would want int for, not that I'm salty or anything.

How does distant spell metamagic work for the SCAG cantrips

>>51930155
>>51930192
I'm playing a Drow (using variant human statblock so I can have Dual Wielder, and also not have sunlight sensitivity) so I think dumping Charisma could work. He's intelligent and sharp, but no one ever listens to him because he's a Drow.

>>51930218
You'd think the class would find a way to make use of it. Intelligence seems like it should be important to the class thematically.

>>51930222
Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade have a defined 5 foot range. Distant Spell makes that 10 feet. You would need a reach weapon or some other way to extend your weapon's reach to 10 feet to take advantage of Distant Spell with those.

>>51929990
Dex/Con and dump Cha for stats?

>>51926664
I have nothing against you House Ruling or via GMfiat to just allow feats to apply, but there's nothing that indicates for me that they should, let alone give more ground to power gaming in a system not built to handle it well.

>>51929985
Maybe it would have been better between editions

>>51930264
Maybe if you weren't a shitty caster you'd be able to swing your sword so hard that the air rushing out of the way actually cuts your enemies. Owned, casterfaggot.

>>51927397
>>51930296
Wrong Person, replied to the reply whoops. I've honestly seen nothing but problems from moon druids and people pushing damage soak to absurd levels

>>51929113
>Cha and some skill proficiencies are also the only way the martials will influence the game outside of combat.
Generally speaking casters will surpass martials in those anyway if for no other reason than because they will max out int, wis, or cha depending on class.

>>51930328
Yes. But you've got to try anyway. Don't let those faggots hog all the fun.