/osrg/ OSR General - Gone Adventuering Edition

First for Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.

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Is there a good method for letting players pick starting equipment that doesn't involve starting gold and buying from a shop or just rolling on a random table?

Would something like this work;
>Fighter picks 3 pieces of equipment (armor, weapon, shield, etc) and 1 general item
>Thief picks 2 tools and 2 general items
>Cleric picks a tool, piece of equipment, and 1 general item
>Magic User gets spellbook and 3 general items

?

>>51905947
microlite 20's fast packs or 5e's starting equipment

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Any anyone used this "everyones an adventurer" homebrew in their game?
Looking at it myself the one thing id change would be to seperate learning into arcane and clerical casting, with each level giving acess to all the spells for that level in the book [ala Tunnels and trolls] with the option to develop or learn new "non standard spells" as they adventure.

>>51906000

Doesn't tell me anything. Doesn't answer my question. Thanks for nothing.

>>51905847
30-300 Orc

I'm going to be running an OSR game soon.

But which genre/setting should I run it in?
>Traditional class-based Fantasy OSR
>Weird classless sci-fi OSR

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>>51905947
No, because you need general living stuff as well.
I like to give starting gold, and I set a 60-second glass.
They grab as much crap as they can while staying under budget.

Excess funds are "spent" mid-delve at ⅔rds value to retcon gear onto their character.

>>51906045
Why did you delet >>51906007?

>51905947
>seperate learning into arcane and clerical casting
What could that POSSIBLY add if you've removed archetypes?

>51906098
As with all unfilial communists, he named names. Go look.

>>51906098
Have you tried google? Fastpacks are pmuch what you want. Took me less than 30 seconds to find out.

On a scale of 1-10, how interested would people be in a campaign setting based on the premise that in the mid 80's a continent full of magical bullshit just appears in the middle of the pacific. For political reason, east and west both want to keep the other out of it, so each sponsors small mercenary groups to explore and retrieve shit. So you have modern technology up against magic and monsters, and the potential to grow your own mercenary group. This would all be done in a hombrew system that basically a blend of LotFP and the wound mechanics from Song of Swords/Call of the Void. Is this idea terminally retarded or does it sound at least vaguely promising?

6 or 7. It's more than vaguely promising. I wouldn't try to write it, but I'd love to play it. Be careful tho.

>Martial classes gain 2 attacks at level 13+
>Never get more

>Casters keep getting spells, never stop

How is this fair

>>51906457
Spells can be interrupted and spells give initiative penalties.
And you probably retired after level 10.

>>51906365
Sounds tite.

I know this is more /worldbuilding/ territory, but how do you guys map your worlds? Right now I'm literally using http://craftdesignonline.com/pattern-grid/ and copying a topographical map of Germany.

As a side note how the fuck do rivers even work what is this madness? I never stopped and considered how retarded I was until I googled "where do rivers come from?"

>>51906365
Sounds cool. Give it a synthwave aesthetic, though. Pastels and neons on black.

>>51906457
>martial
>casters

You need to crucify those false edition terms from your vocabulary, they're obscuring your thinking. That's a false dichotomy. How do you know I'm not a human dual-classed fighter/psionicist/invoker of levels 13/14/29?

>>51906365
I've read too many korean WNs to not like this.

>>51906198
I didnt see the new thread announcment till just after i posted or i would have posted it here so i figured it'd be easier to just cut and paste it over to the new thread before anyone noticed - or so i though....
>>51906231
Because SOMEONE will inevitably complain about giving mages access to both clerical and magic user spell lists [MUH BALANCE REEEEEEE and all that].

>>51906874

Because you're level 10/10/10 while everybody else is already level 25

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>>51907009
>there's only one class
>some one will complain
>about class balance

Is a six player party too large for Stars Without Number?

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>>51906174
I like that 60 second timer thing. Might give it a try soonish.

>>51906365
Pathways into Darkness: Pacific Edition would be sweet.

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No.

>>51906816
>>51906832
>>51906880
>>51907145
Really, all I wanted was a setting where you could fire on fleeing primitives races from the door of your helicopter and fight orcs with AK's. Something like a mishmash of Vietnam and the soviet wars in Chechnia and Afghanistan, but with mercenary looters. Fantasy fucking Vietnam, but in a more literal sense.

>>51907188
> modern technology up against magic and monsters
Is a bit different from:
>fight orcs with AK's

But you do you, anon.

>>51906098
>I'm to intelligent too google

>>51907161
It was a different time.

>>51907220
Eh, what I was thinking was at the start of the game you'd be up against fantasy creatures that have never seen tech before and as you continue they adapt technologies and eventually you wind up with industrialising orc nations and whatknot.

This thread is 3 hours old, and the previous thread hasn't died yet.

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>>51907741
It's been surviving on page 10 for a while then.

>>51907161
>>51907438
In Matt Collville's recent West Marches video, he touched on this. The idea was that one referee would have a consistent world/setting that up to fifty people played in, but each session would involve 5-6 players.

>>51907868
It'd dead now. But it actually bounced *up* from page 11.

>>51907900
Plenty of sessions definitely involved more than 6 players.

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For those among you who want to help a humble DM out with his custom magic system;
>Instead of spells, MUs bring along magical items to adventures
>These items are usually charge based; having a limited number of uses, or there is a minor element of recharging or sacrifice to recharge them
>Anyone can use these items, but MUs get the most power and longevity from them.

Any ideas on what the items should be? Right now I'm settling on a basic elemental set even though I'm not usually a fan of elemental magic, but it's pretty simple and easy to understand. Also makes it easy to let magic users manipulate the rods to do alternate uses. Like using a Fire rod to heat something up, or an ice wand to freeze a puddle of water to make someone slip or for a safe crossing, etc.

What do you think? What elements should be used for this kind of system? Or ditch the elements and make it more traditional spell based charges?

>>51907965
If we might riff ourselves some Zelda: the fire rod summons a large, sturdy cube for puzzle'n'shieet. Which is can detonate.

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>>51907965
Brogue does something similar.

>>51908005
Don't pick up the Bible, anon. It turns the fireball wand into a shitty magic missile wand.

>>51908005

I'd certainly put that under a 'Blunt' or physical damage wand.

Maybe include a 'Cutting' damage wand as well which could cut ropes or paper from far away.

This might be too complicated/storygame for OSR, but the skill system I'm thinking of using:

When success is uncertain, roll 2d6. Each die that shows up as a 4+ gives you one success. If you take a long time and work patiently, roll +1d6. If you are really good at the task at hand, if you have an item that works perfectly to help you, if you roleplay really well, or if you have a really clever / smart / off-the-wall-but-feasible idea, add +1d6. If the task is really hard, -1d6.

0 successes: dramatic failure.

1 success: weak success, things don't go quite as planned.

2 successes: success, you get what you want.

3+ successes: awesome success, you get a little something extra.

>>51908230
I dont think it is too complicated. While I wouldn't use it myself, I am not horrified by the idea and I would play in a game that uses such as system.

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I really need some good 'feats' for my homebrew Magician/Magic User class.

Any ideas to accompany regular spellcasting?

How do you make getting injured matter in your games, /osrg/? Players seem to shrug off HP damage as a temporary setback at worst.

>>51908481

Well, it is. Hp is the buffer between "I'm okay" and "I'm dead."
OTOH, getting it healed is difficult until you get a Cleric up to level 2.

>>51908481
If you want a grittier game, make it where PCs who reach low HP [or get crit against] have to roll on the Chart of Creative Injuries which can ONLY be cured by higher level magic.

>>51908481
Zero hp maims you and puts you out of the fight for 2d6 rounds.
You act at ½level for the rest of the adventure, and eat a level drain afterwords.

Negative hp is outright death.

>>51908481
Simply change how healing works.

Here's what I do:
Make it take much longer naturally. Make magical healing cause incredible hunger as a sideeffect so the players have to manage their resources.

>>51908481
>>51908508
Ok so maybe somebody can rate my idea or tell me what's wrong with it. I'm going to test it next week, and without having tested it I really like it in concept.

So armor doesn't affect AC or to-hit rolls. Armor is just an HP pool you wear, and the better the armor, the larger the pool. Sneak attacks by-pass armor, as do some "called shots" which is anything that gives a special effect (it gives you -4 to your attack roll).

I also added a "defensive stance" which consumes a half action to double the dex bonus you get to your AC. My game no longer resembles D&D but it seems interesting. You all can go ahead and tell me why it's shit now if you'd like.

>>51908556
forgot to add: the HP pool from armor is called Protection Points (PP), and when you hit 0 PP you roll to see if your armor breaks or not. If it breaks then it doesn't protect you anymore. If it's fine then you get back your PP after 8 hours of rest.

The break chance of armor depends on what kind of armor it is and how well it was crafted (with better-crafted armor costing more, naturally).

>>51904607
>Just in someone at TSR's eyes thinking they needed to kiddy it down.
They weren't wrong. As you said yourself, it's only from our point of view and for our purposes that it's an inferior product. (Which it definitely is, though.) It was meant to be a *starter* set, remember. TSR's main intention with it ever since Holmes was to funnel players into AD&D; they also acutely needed to start teaching kids to play on their own, without being taught by someone else. From that point of view, Mentzer was infinitely superior to Moldvay -- there's a reason they sold millions of the fucking thing. The extent to which it was never meant to be a table reference first and foremost is illustrated by the fact that they published the Rules Cyclopedia to be just that, for players who had decided to stick with Basic instead of moving to AD&D.

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>>51908556
>as do some "called shots"
Called shots are silly.

An attack rolls is not "an attack," but the aggregate result of a minute's worth of fighting.
And you would aim for special weak points, it's already assumed that you go for the best target.

>>51908587
Everybody will immediately break all their armor forever.
You had me right up until your armor breakage rules.

>>51908622
So in defense of called shots: I too understand an attack roll as striking at whatever looks good. The reason a character can take a called shot is that it gets a penalty because the character is purposefully striking somewhere specific rather than at the best target. The -4 representing the fact that you didn't just strike at his helmet where he was open, but that you tried breaking his guard to go for his groin or some other such thing.
I mean maybe you can convince me further as to why this isn't good, I'll admit that I mainly only added it because my players always want to do something special for special effects.

So as far as armor breaking not being cool, we're talking about a 30% chance at breaking armor, and padded armor is immune to breaking (because seriously, how the fuck are you going to break padding?). But if breaking armor at all is bad practice do you think you could explain to me why? I mean I'll take it out if we all agree it's bad but I'm trying to understand why.

>>51908675
this was meant for this:
>>51908652

>>51907188
Have you had a look at the GURPS setting Technomancer? It's a lot like what you're describing.

>>51908595
>TSR's main intention with it ever since Holmes was to funnel players into AD&D
Then why do any of the sets from Expert on even exist?

>>51907965
>sunshine wand is green
>starlight wand is yellow
My autism is strongly convoked.

>>51908675
>but that you tried breaking his guard to go for his groin or some other such thing.
Well, there's two ways that can play out with abstracted combat:
• Roll Poor ⇒ your poor results are the result of your poor idea, so much for that
• Roll Well ⇒ your high damage isn't hitting well, or even the fight going faster, it's your opponent having less opportunities to retaliate while distracted by the pain

>(because seriously, how the fuck are you going to break padding?)
That's the one armor I would reasonably expect to break. At some point gambesons are just tatters.

>I'll admit that I mainly only added it because my players always want to do something special for special effects.
I'd generally say, "make up a ruling" when they try to do something neat and interesting.
If they're doing something merely neat *or* interesting ("I go for his eyes!") there's probably no need.

>>51908684 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
More my fault than yours.


>>51908758
Your autism isn't scattered about, It's not being called together.
It was being called to a location (this thread). So it's actually been invoked.

>>51908819
>Your autism isn't scattered about, It's not being called together.
What do you know about it? My autism is all over the place.

But this focused it into a laser beam of sperging out.

>>51908819
Fair enough on the called shots. I'll consider rethinking them.

>That's the one armor I would reasonably expect to break. At some point gambesons are just tatters.

Hm. Interesting point. See I was thinking that no matter how many times you whack cloth with a hammer, it'll kind of still be, but I am pretty confident in my ability to wreck anything other than full-plate with a sledge hammer and some time.

Of course, naturally catching fire and special circumstances like that would burn it, but that's more of an OSR mindset of 'this makes sense and therefor X'

>>51908903
>with a hammer,
Fair enough, hammer trashes most armor.
I was mostly thinking in swords and claws.

>>51908973
Makes sense, I mean you'd think there'd be lots of that going on too.

>>51908720
>Then why do any of the sets from Expert on even exist?
I'll be honest and say I have no idea, and it confuses me too. Maybe they just figured they were leaving money on the table? Or maybe their idea was to enable kids to play "easy D&D" indefinitely until they were old enough for AD&D?

>>51908556
>So armor doesn't affect AC or to-hit rolls. Armor is just an HP pool you wear, and the better the armor, the larger the pool.
All indications are that this is how armor worked in Blackmoor, so you have the best antecedents.

>>51908675
>seriously, how the fuck are you going to break padding?
Literally anything sharp?

>>51909022
Presumably it has something with the Arneson lawsuit.

>>51909069
Almost certainly not. Arneson's lawsuit was to get royalty money from the sales of AD&D core books -- which he got. AFAIK there was never any discussion about Basic (Classic in the official teminology, which I figure is relevant here) D&D, and he always received payouts for these.

>>51909051
Wow, there really is nothing new under the sun. Glad I'm clearly in that old school direction though.

>Literally anything sharp?
Yeeeaaah, as another poster pointed out I'm literally retarded for not considering that battle weapons are generally sharp.

>>51909022
>Maybe they just figured they were leaving money on the table?

Bingo, D&D was a money making machine and anything with the name: AD&D or not was going to put numbers in the bank with little to no risk involved.

We also can't forget that TSR was one clusterfuck of a hydra, and honestly I doubt any of the heads knew what the other was doing. The internal politics at TSR were insane at the time and what actually went down is probably anyone's guess. But I figure nearly everything was ultimately just a race to get money before the implosion.

>>51909192
>probably anyone's guess
There's a bunch of videos of Tim Kask on youtube which offers a lot of insight for those curious about some of the things that happened.

>>51909639
Kask left shortly after Mentzer came on board, though, so he probably doesn't have much insight into that particular era.

(That said, as a general recommendation that video series and his QA thread on Dragonsfoot are both recommended reading for TSR shenanigans)

You are Sisyphus, and you must run B/X for eternity. By the book, to the last rule.

You're allowed to one houserule, also to be used always. Which one?

Ascending AC is not an option, greek deities love them negative numbers

>>51909940
Easy: revised Thief skills.

>>51909940
Maximum hit points at level 1

>>51909958
That's vage. You mean:
revised % values?
switching from d% to another roll?
changing the skills? adding more, removing, merging?
adding a brief text explaining clearly what they do, why they are unique to the thief, and how/when to use them in relation to other rolls and other classes attempting the same, with a couple of examples? imho, THIS
something else? explain

>>51910149
Altered and clarified so people don't sperg over Y ONLY THIF CAN DO????, significantly raised success chances from level 1 for most skills, optionally changed to D6 values rather than d%.

Or just using Warlock-type Thief skills.

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>>51910179

While only tangentially related to your post; why can't the thief be the only person capable of doing thief things?

Like why would a burly fighter or wise old wizard know how to pick locks or climb sheer walls and stuff?

I give an exception to stealth/moving silently because I think everyone should be good at that, but the thief should be the best.

>>51910199
burly fighters can climb sheer walls, once they get a grappling hook
wise old wizards open locks when they get the Knock spell

You don't get the thief skills. They are not skills like in a modern game, they are superheroish stuff.
Clerics banish and destroy undead and nobody says anything, but the thief is hiding in a fucking shadow and suddenly everybody wants to do that?

>>51910251
>but the thief is hiding in a fucking shadow and suddenly everybody wants to do that?

Huh, never thought about it like that before.

>>51910349
Because it's shittily explained, so it sounds like it's just the thief standing in a shadow, which any schmoe can do.

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>>51908652
>those mage names

>>51910094
This.

>>51910251
Yeah, exactly. The thief's skills are supernatural. When he fails his "moving silently" roll, he doesn't make a loud noise, he just literally wasn't *completely silent*, and instead is detected to the same level other characters trying to sneak would. The thief climbs sheer walls like spider man. He blends into shadows as if invisible.

>>51910349
>>51910531
That's the beauty of B/X, imho. Things either happen, or don't - as common sense dictates. If they don't and your class has something to make it happen, you roll. Rolls decide if you can or don't, but if you don't you can try again after gaining a level.
And that's all you need to know as a player, the rest is written on your sheet.

If you hide behind a barrel, you are hidden. If there's nowhere to hide except a dark place, a thief can try an stunt, hiding there. If light reaches that spot, thief is detected always.
When isn't that obvious, I decide a x in 6 chance with my players (usually 1 or 2) and we roll. Once.

I'm a new convert. I run B/X strictly by the book, ruled like that - and now my games are 3 times better and I'm generally a happier person with more free time on my hands.

I've yet to find a game that works so flawlessly and elegantly as this. And makes me sad that 100% of the OSR games miss the point, and instead just downgrade 3.5 into something a bit simpler that uses cowboy font in the logo.

>>51910199
>why can't the thief be the only person capable of doing thief things?
You misunderstand me; I'm totally comfortable with the Thief having exclusive skills. I've never understood why I ought to assume anybody can pick locks either. However, tons of people in OSR claim thief skills have a chilling effect on other people even sneaking, and they may have a point there. So for the purposes of handling those OSR posters and people like them, I'd like to clarify that as the other posters already mentioned, Thief skills are either specialized knowledge or supernatural in every case.

Despite understanding Hide in Shadows to be effectively supernatural I still think it should start at a higher success rate, though.

Anyone tried Ruins of the Undercity? Does it get better as you advance?
I gave it a try and it's slow, tedious and the tables are poorly organized. You have to make lots of rolls to generate stuff, switch pages constantly to find different tables, plus all the DM's bookeeping, plus playing and player's bookeeping.
Results have been kinda boring too, but I'm playing with 1st levelers.

However, it sounds like a cool method for generating detailed (but nonsensical) dungeons that you can turn into a less nonsensical thing on a second pass -- but still harder and more tedious than making shit up.
If you want to run a gonzo dungeon, that's donjon...

>>51906820
Rivers are one of the hardest things to get right about a map. They're actually super complex, taking into effect things like local rainfall, rain shadows, elevation, and a dozen other things.

If you get your rivers wrong, don't worry, everybody does.

Anyways, I use Hexographer because it works well enough and the results aren't hideous. You can always freehand a map and then superimpose a hex grid over it later in paint.net or any image editor that supports layers.

Honestly, unless you're intentionally including a hexcrawl in your game a freehand map with a real-life style scale (1" = 20 miles, or something) is more than good enough.

Just found this curio while googling for Dark Spire:

http://www.success-corp.co.jp/software/ds/genmunotou/download_sheet.html

They made this sheets to be used while playing the game in your DS, it seems.

BTW, what edition of D&D would be Dark Spire? Feels like a mix of Moldvay, Holmes and AD&D to me.

>>51905945
>tfw no-one knows about bravd and the weasel

>>51906174
>No, because you need general living stuff as well.
If they hadn't blown all their money on swords and shit, they wouldn't be desperate enough to go into the dungeon.

>>51909940
remove thief

>>51912445
Why?

>>51912461
because it's a question about being forced to play b/x for eternity, but I'm an lbb grog at heart.

OSR-adjacent at best, perhaps, but anyone have the Hacklopedia of Beasts? It's a Hackmaster 5e thing, and I don't like Tellene much, but it still looks interesting.

>>51912409
Something, something, tremors through an astral plane.

Gimme a good OSR system that isn't fantasy.

>>51914192
>OSR that isnt fantasy

for what purpose?

>>51914192
Define fantasy.

>>51914378
>>51914236

Both of you retards know exactly what I mean.

>>51914192 c >>51907161
(c also, the poster they were replying too)

Is the Complete Book of Necromancers in the mega?

>>51914423
Actually I do not, because I could say Mutant Future and you would claim that it is fantasy, which at a point it is, being a sort of science fantasy.

>>51914612
You should try looking.

>>51914655
I went to go look for him, and I can't find it either.

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Any reason to use descending AC? (when you don't mind your players knowing the monsters AC)

>>51914725
Then you have your answer.

>>51914612

It's been filed under 2e DM reference guides.

>>51905847
Does anyone know why shields in most retro clones only provide 1 point of AC? A heater shield covers most of the upper body and thighs when held up right shouldn't it provide a much higher bonus for protecting almost 3-quarters of the body?

Also do you think giving shields a DR (damage resistance) of 1 would encourage players to use them more?

>>51914192
Stars Without Number

>>51914823
None, unless it's baked into the system you're using and you don't feel like changing it.

>>51915022
>Does anyone know why shields in most retro clones only provide 1 point of AC?
I can't claim to *know* why, but my guess would be that it's another conversion gaffe from Chainmail MTM to Alternative Combat -- IIRC a shield alone is notably better than padded/leather armor alone in Chainmail, while granting a smaller, weapon-dependent bonus if used alongside armor. I think that just got simplified down to a flat AC bonus the same way every other feature of Chainmail combat got shaved away.

Either way I agree that shields as they stand in the D&D rules are way, way underestimated relative to their actual efficacy. It's hard to know exactly what to do about it, but if you wanted a really quick solution you could give Disadvantage per 5E to anyone attacking a shield-bearing enemy instead of granting any AC bonus for it. That has one obvious flaw I can see right away, though, which is that the shield is better the stronger your armor is, rather than more redundant as would be the case in reality. Still, it's a quick enough rule, so maybe it can be good enough, or a starting point.

>>51914823
Honestly, ascending vs descending mostly seems to be a matter of how the DM and players like thinking about these things. I play with ascending but it does get annoying that that implies that the players do the rolls and add the attack bonus themselves, which can suck if the players aren't used to roleplaying games. For some DMs though, they like that since they don't have to keep what the player has to roll on their die to hit in their head, and dislike descending because of its implication that the DM has to know what every player has to roll to hit and that players won't be as active in the game as a result. In the end, it's just the same thing, but with different algebra.

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What are the must play AD&D modules

>>51915181
AD&D specifically? G1, T1, I6, the entire S series.

>>51906365
Idk why but i would give it 10/10 if it was set in the 1900-1920, feels more "fun" with more old school firearms than the new stuff (moden tanks and jet planes).

>>51914875
Thanks!

>>51915157
Then, how do you handle descending so it's fast and newbie friendly? The DM still needs to check enemy's AC and the player reference it in the table in your PC sheet, right?

In ascending you only need to write down pre-calculated bonuses for melee and ranged attacks next to your sword and bow. "Roll the big die and add those pluses there. I'll tell you if you hit."

>>51915558
You can just remember or have written down the player's THAC0, and then tell them to roll. You can of course do that with ascending too.

>"Roll the big die and add those pluses there. I'll tell you if you hit."
If you're experiences are anything like mine, players still struggle at session 10 to remember their attack bonus. It can sometimes become something like "Umm, this die right? Uhh... and this bonus? I roll and put them together right?" When it easily could have just been that they roll a die, tell me the number and I'll tell them if they hit.

Best system to recreate a Final Fantasy IX like experience?

>>51907965
I would use diffrenk kind of rocks or objects that have adiffrent abilities to store energy/spells in them like:
> Obsidian for fire magic
> Sandstone for water magic
> Ice-block (nevermelting) for ice magic (maybe water too)
> Big root for nature magic
> Bismuth for spells like chromatic orb ect

>>51915558
• Player says, "I hit armor class [THAC0 - roll]"
• Check their foe's AC behind your screen.
• You say, "You [hit/miss]"

>>51915646
I only know Final Fantasies I to III, plus the Crystal Chronicles and Tactics games.
Give me a run down of IX's mechanics and thematics.

>>51915646
I'm a big FFIX fan, and it has nothing to do with what OSR games usually offer.

You can try Alshard, it's basically FF: Tabletop - there's a translated cheatsheet floating around, it has everything you need fo play. Beware the math is broken af beyond the very first levels. Just like in every jrpg, but with dice!

I think a lot of the FFIX 'experience' comes from a melancholic feel, assburger levels of collectionism, great overworld navigation and lots of equipment-dependant mechanics.
And perfect game balance, where you need no grinding or backtracking ever, only advance and advance, readjusting equipment each three steps.
Also, 70% of its difficulty is knowing or anticipating the recurring elemental damage for each zone/boss, and having gear to minimize it.

>>51916187
It's a setback to 3, sans job change, plus actual plot and balanced for casuals.
Main theme is DEATH and LOSS but also FINDING UR WAY IN LYFE.

>>51914192
Stars Without Number

>>51915181
How the Mighty are Fallen

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>>51915646
>

>>51914192
B/X, but refluffed by the referee.

>>51914192
Colonial Troopers, Mutant Future, and Hideouts & Hoodlums all come to mind

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So how do you all run your Lankhmar-Morpork?

>>51915558
With descending it's a matter of having your matrices on hand to quickly reference. When the player wants to attack, all they have to do is roll a d20 and you consult the chart. Really can't get more beginner friendly than that.

You're doing descending wrong if you even task your players with having a table on their character sheet. All of that should happen behind the screen.

>>51916494
With less pork t b h

>>51916238
I should clarify to me that when I think of OSR, I am mostly referring to it's simple mechanics, not it's traditional gameplay style.

>>51916633
Maybe you mean story games?
I may be wrong, tho. Example of an OSR game that isn't about asymmetrical warfare?

But yeah, you could start your PCs at a high level in a refluffed B/X like the other anon said.

>>51916708
OSR games can have an engaging story you dullard.

>>51916780
They allow story, yes. But they are not _about_ that.

>>51916780

Not the planned, top-down kind that most tabletop roleplayers think of when they say "story," not unless you houserule like crazy to reduce the lethality.

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>>51916583
Conserving your gonzo for the bottom of the delve?

>>51912077
Thanks brah. What I ended up doing was pulling up a map with all the rivers in my state on it, and then I did my best to replicate them on some graph paper. After the rivers were done I made mountains where it looked like they should be and now I'm adding swamps and cities.

I'm pretty happy with the result. There is a big empty space in the middle, but uhh you know there are empty spaces in real life too so fuck it.

>>51916822
Of course they are. All RPGs are. If it isn't a pre-written railroad like modern D&D, it's an open ended story you and your players are writing together. Whether its some epic tale or a dungeon crawl. Don't be stupid.

>>51917125

You and he are using different meanings of "about."

>>51917125
Modern D&D is a top down story, OSR is a bottom up story. You know exactly what he meant. Every TTRPG has a story, but it isn't the defining part of the game, nor is it weaved into the system like modern systems.

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What movies capture the feel of old-school D&D, besides Conan and Brotherhood of the Wolf?

>>51919002

It's modern day, but As Above, So Below is a small indy horror film that really has a freaky horror dungeon crawl feel to it. Some guys go exploring old catacombs and caves beneath Paris, and then spooky shit starts happening.

John Dies at the End
Big Trouble in Little China
Escape from New York
Cobra: The Space Pirate
The Thirteenth Warrior
The Hidden Fortress
Evil Dead
Evil Dead II
Record of Lodoss War
Yojimbo
The Golden Voyage of Sinbad
Jason and the Argonauts
The 7th Voyage of Sinvad
House on Haunted Hill
Rashomon

>>51913393
>anyone have the Hacklopedia of Beasts?
Try this.

http://www.4shared.com/office/PdqXcvZkba/HackMaster_-_2600_-_Hacklopedi.html

>>51919002
The Beastmaster is grade B, but good grade B. (But only the first one.)

>>51919092
Where's Seven Samurai?

I want to allow my players to choose between 3 races irrelevant to class.

Human, Elf, and Beastman. Right now I'm debating if they should get any bonuses at all, or should I keep all the differences entirely based on roleplay and stats? Like if you roll an 18 for strength you should consider playing a beastman, or you could just be a really jacked human/elf if you want.

>>51919408
I think that it's more interesting to give player characters powers that change how the game is played, rather than a stat boost. It's for example more interesting that the elf has infravision and the halfling is tiny enough to get through small areas, than to give the elf +2 to dexterity and the halfling +2 to charisma or whatever.
If you want to have it so high strength PCs will play beastmen, consider giving them a power connected to the strength stat or something.

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>>51919408
You could allow or force folks to put one of their highest rolls (one of their two highest?) into the appropriate stat. You could do something like the stat allocation in the "random but fair" system, where you start off the highest score in the race's favored attribute, and the lowest score in the one it's disfavored in (see pic).

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Who else here blatantly steal maps from other things for your games but redraw them slightly or flip em around?

My players found me out last week and we had a good laugh about it when my sketch was pic related but reversed East and West and dotted with extra towns.

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>>51920116
Oh man, that's a tight Zelda II map.

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>>51919408
How I do it is:

1. Roll race. Your race lists one stat that you can reroll and take the higher number. For Humans that might be [Con], Elf could have [Cha], and Beastman could have [Str]

2. Roll stats.

3. Roll or choose class.

That way, there are no "optimal" class/race pairings. Elves are not automatically better wizards, etc. They're just /likely/ to be /slightly/ better.

>>51920271
Best rendition I've ever seen of Hyrule imo.

Hence why I stole it.

Hard to beat Zelda for OSR inspiration.

Do I calculate Magical Weapons into the gp = xp thing?
If yes, for how much gold would a specific modifier count?

>>51920413
Magical items don't factor into gp to xp

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>>51920116
Never realized the maps were adjacent like that.
Kind'a explains that pointless Cemetary full of nasties in Zelda II.

Found a slightly more accurate map though (1/2).

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2/2

>>51920496
Sauce on that one?

That's really nice.

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So we're posting maps?

>>51920464
Thanks, I wasn't sure about it.

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As an aside, I really would like to play a campaign in oldschool Dominaria.

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>>51920549
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39862103&postcount=77

>>51920744
That's really neat. I wonder if they'll do something similar in Breath of the Wild.

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>>51920692

File: ZeldaLotFP.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Speaking of Hyrule

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RIP pre-Weatherlight MTG

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>>51920887
>Shang Tsung's Island
>Syraq
>Perkele

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>>51920692
It's just Blackmarsh, honestly

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>>51921111
Kamigawa deserved those quads.

>>51905945
Does anybody have pdfs of the DCC supplements for Lankhmar?

>>51921181
Yeah, I got patrons and masks. Whacha tradin' for it?

>>51921181
It's kinda weird, nobody has uploaded any new DCC shit in AGES.

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>>51920315
Heck yeah.

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Slight update to The Rogue's March (my thief-centric osrpg)

not really sure whether to abandon this project or not.

>>51920692
God damn. This map's so shitty it actually makes me angry.
>Literally no useful geographical information
>Names like Parma Ham and Manowar
>Utterly mongoloid scale, because of course
>And of course, one specific house marked out despite all this

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Does anyone here have experience with Platemail? It's the only game I'v seen that bothers to use the Chainmail style combat. It looks really interesting and I'm really curious as to how it plays.

>>51920905
Will you marry me?

>>51921944
>really curious as to how it plays.
Pretty much exactly like CHAINMAIL.
It's literally a CHAINMAIL retro clone.

>>51921997
Not that Anon, but send nudes.

>>51920905
I wanna see a FF version of these. FFV had so many classes that it could make for a really fun project.

>>51922043
That'd be interesting, though I'd keep the scale low (level 10 max, imho).

>>51919002
Ralph Bakshi's Wizards

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>>51920116
me, here's a couple maps I've contemplated using for a game

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>>51922138
really like this one, would take it's appearance literally and have it be a remnant of an older intact world just floating through space, kept alive through a artificial magic Sun orbiting it, would also add an artificial Moon that's literally chained to the Floating World(said chain would attach on the underside on one of the sides not visible in the picture), it'd basically be a fairly gonzo setting

>>51905947
>>51914192
>>51915181

Dungeon Crawl Classics

>>51922225
Is that a redrawing of The Strange's Fantasy world? Or am I missremembering?

>>51922251
>DCC
>not fantasy
>DCC
>remotely anything like AD&D

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>>51905947

>>51922280
It's a good substitute for both

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>>51922225
this one that an Anon around here made is a really nice relatively small scale map

>>51922258
if my research is correct it was originally a map for one of the Dominions games

>>51922225
>>51922258
Its used in the game Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension

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>>51922312
the map for the 90's board game Iron Dragon

>>51922326
yeah that's the one

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>>51922354
the original version of that map

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>>51922364
the manual for it(which has the game's basic setting layed out, which is surprisingly well thought out for a board game)

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>>51922381
the map for the Sundered Empire/God War setting for WOTC's 2002 revival of Chainmail, and is technically part of Greyhawk

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>>51922445
and the actual fluff for the setting

>>51907039
You mean 23/22/21 while everyone else is 25? Crucify your understanding of maths as well.

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>>51922463
now for one of my favorite maps, the book it's from, Beasties is a pretty neat and fairly cheap monster manual full of interesting ideas, especially the concept of the Locust Gods and their Flying Locust Citadels

>>51920863
Ask /v/, it's partially leaked.
They're already datamining it.

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>>51922549
and to finish things off a very elaborate map and gazetteer set some Anon introduced to /tg/ back last 9/11, it's one of the most thought out setting concepts I've seen in a long time, and while he made it for his own system, it'd probably work rather well using an OSR system, here's the two threads I know of around here he's discussed it in;

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/49294049/

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/49492001/

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>>51922627
and the gazetteer, which is going to take a couple posts(really need to email him and get the proper name for this world from him, since it's not directly named anywhere in these images or in either of the two threads)

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>>51922652

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>>51922657

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>>51922688

>>51922652
>it's not directly named anywhere in these images
Yes it is. Look at the Latin superscript of the map. Looks like he called it Aquilonia, like the country in Conan.

I'm running In Search of the Unknown for my sister and some of her friends using S&W Complete's rules.

After that, I think everyone wants to start all over and do something that's more of a "campaign."

I don't have a time to do literally everything myself. Any suggestions for premade stuff to run that'll blow their minds (I will obviously read it ahead of time, tweak to make it suit me better, and so on)?

They won't be into LotFP's super grim stuff, before anybody recommends it.

>>51922706
Yoon Suin

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>>51922697
last one

>>51922698
just ran those words through a translator, seems to just translate into something in the vein of; "all the lands and seas of the northern hemisphere", so I don't think that's the settings actual name

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>>51922706
To derail what you said, World of the Lost for LotFP is an amazing campaign hexcrawl. It isn't even grim; it's got a very gonzo aesthetic. Dinosaurs, Blob Creatures, Pterodactyl-men, Weird Fantasy, Robots, all rolled into one strange journey through an alternate Nigeria. It's brilliant and very very fun to run.

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>>51922627

>>51922287
Not gonna' lie. I can't grok the instructions.

>>51922884
Like, I get finding the kit, rations, and funds...
But how do you pick which die finds armor/rations and melee/ranged?

>>51922845
yeah I love that he went true Old School with the art on the map, have you read the guide parts yet?

>>51919002
add Army of Darkness to the list, also Fire and Ice also by bakshi (and frazetta). The Hobbit (animated). Dragonslayer is fucking rad.

>>51922975
it's where it falls (or number rolled if you want). Look at the borders.

d6: Armor & Melee, # x 20 is starting silver
d4: Ration type and Ranged, # is rations amount.
Other die's fall is for starting equipment.

The 7+ areas are only for the Fighters, Dwarves, Halflings and Elves who get the next highest result.

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>>51923133
>The 7+ areas are only for the Fighters, Dwarves, Halflings and Elves who get the next highest result.
Only exclusive on the classic table. Anyone can get them off the drop (that's why it's 7+ instead of 7).

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>>51912094
That's a pretty cool find, the character sheet seems kinda like the old Moldvay sheets.

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>>51912094
>>51924270
Never heard of this before.

Not gonna lie,
>The Tower of Mist and the Law of the Sword
sounds way cooler than
>The Dark Spire

It looks like an middle age cRPG, but apparently it's for DS?
What's it like exactly?

>>51916187
please for the love of god play ffv next time there's a four job fiesta, or even just play it now. you are missing out on the most fun job system around.

>>51924390
It's not the platonic ideal of a perfect dungeon crawler, but it's pretty decent.

It's a gimmick, but I appreciate that it has an ancient Wizardry graphical mode. The default graphics are nice though, good aesthetic. I like my wireframe dungeons. <3

>>51924670
Can't quite place why, but the graphics give me a Paper Sorcerer vibe.

Give me your interesting non-Vancian magic system useful for OSR.

No DCC, no Wonders and Wickedness, no GURPS. put some effort in.

>>51925311
>non-Vancian magic
No dice, but here's what I've got:

MUs start with 2-5 spells, but otherwise learn spells while adventuring.
Can't learn new spells unless they know less than [twice their level] different spells.
1 spell slot at first level, +1 slot at even levels to a maximum of 7 slots.
Total levels of prepared spells can't exceed the MU's level.

Some spells do things through use:
1st level spell ⇒ mitigate one fight
2nd level spell ⇒ turn the tide of one fight
3rd level spell ⇒ resolve one fight
4th level spell ⇒ tediously create a magic item
5th level spell ⇒ mass warfare shizz

Most do things by tying up a slot:
1st level slot ⇒ prerequisite to prepare other spells
2nd level slot ⇒ something, something, weapon
3rd level slot ⇒ potentially mitigate multiple fights
4th level slot ⇒ continuous utility (immortality, etc.)
5th level slot ⇒ potentially turn the tide of several fights

And, of course, they fight like shit:
3rd level MU ≈ 1st level Fighter
9th level MU < 5th level Fighter
14th level MU ≈ 8th level Fighter

>>51925311

What about the alternate Vancian idea drifting about these threads?
>All spells are first level
>can 'empower' spells by using up multiple slots
>spell slots equal to MU level
>takes 1 turn to prepare a spell again
>no daily limits

Any good OSR themed YT channels or podcasts?

>>51926388
Matthew Colville certainly isn't OSR (runs 5e these days, IIRC?), but he gives fantastic advice for referees.

>>51926546
Railroady, adversarial, cliche to the bone, sexist. Nice voice, tho, but not the one I want to hear from behind the DM screen.

>>51917125
Classic D&D and friends aren't about story. Yes, they tell you to roleplay using your ability scores and alignment as a guideline, but that's it. B/X suggest the DM can punish players that play out of alignment, but not how.

Instead, B/X has rules like doors. Doors open automatically for monsters, but are often stuck or locked for adventurers. Doors close automatically, unless held open. Holding open/closed a door requires some item, spell or resource. The knock and wizard lock spell are very clearly defined in terms of how they work and what monsters/casters can influence over it, depending of their level. To hold a door you can also spike it, needing a hammer and iron spikes, sold in bunchs of 12. Both items have a set price in gold coins, and a set weight in gold coins that counts against your encumberance (move rate, escape chances, resource depletion and more). Encumbrance is measured in gold coins too. Different classes have different chances of finding secret door, that must be searched for explicitly during 10 minutes, in a 10'x10' area to be found. Doors can be listened against, to hear what's on the other side, different classes have different chances. Same for locked doors. Doors can also be trapped, and those trapped disarmed and...

And that's what D&D is about. Don't be stupid.

>>51927354
Not that anon, but any kind of conflict which plays out over time can be conceived of as a story.

And genuinely, my favorite thing about OSR is the story that emerges from all those rules about doors and so on, and how players interact with them.

>>51927354
>Instead, B/X has rules like doors.

And they were just as shit 20 years ago as they are now.

>>51927689
They are very good, imo. Maybe you want to play a different game, or maybe you like all the rules except those, but they are good, and well integrated with the rest. You can ignore them and the game still works, but using them btb creates interesting choices during play, tension, and a very nice atmosphere - everything in the dungeon works against you, everything is a bit magical on its own.
Plus this >>51927670
The key to a succesful OSR game is that word, emergent.

I never played BX until recently, no nostalgia involved.

I'm curious why you think that. Care to explain? And, did you play it RAW?

Anyone have map keys?

I saw one once for a japanese RPG that's definitely old-school.

It was so elegant and simple, i'm sad I didn't save it.

>>51922845
I dunno what I think about the setting, but I do love this image. I guess I should read Pliny's Natural History already.

>>51926625
>sexist
Where did you get that from? Isn't he always talking about feminism and representation in his games? If anything, he does that a bit too much in my honest opinion

>>51927988
>emergent
Tangential note, but that's the reason why most OSR adventures fail, imo.
The most batlant offender is LotFP, which includes in every module at least one trinket/mechanism that seems to produce emergent gameplay, but it's just contrieved BS with a random effect table totally unconnected to anything.

On the other hand, doors in B/X have a very clear, simple mechanics, and players are well informed of their choices and chances when facing one. The consecuences of failure may be unexpected, but you learn those too (or a way around them), as you play. And they never cease to be a challenge and a tactical oportunity.

>>51916708
>asymmetrical warfare

>>51928402
I remember in a video about making a newbie, linear, DM-fiat-ish, railroady, anti-player-agency dungeon, saying something like
> 'so the players reach the altar and the goblins are about to sacrifice the girl - but that's cliche and sexist! out of a 70s pulp cover!
>instead we'll say the girl is locked in a cage!
...seriously m8?

I watched only a few vids from him but yeah, he sounds kinda guilty when he touches feminism.

That whole adventure is a wreck, in general. For the record, someone run it as instructed in the video for me and my group, and we stopped playing due to utter boredom and 5e icing the cake.

>>51928402
>Isn't he always talking about feminism and representation in his games? If anything, he does that a bit too much in my honest opinion
So in other words he's sexist.

>>51928634
Yeah, wanting women to be treated with respect is super sexist. Us redpilled folks know the truth, gotta grab 'em by the pussy amirite XD kek my dubs lol

Fuck off.

>>51928584
That sounds more like he's confused rather than straight out sexist.
I will agree that his advice is pretty basic though, that starter dungeon was absolute crap. Did your DM run that seriously or did he want to show just how bad it was or what?

>>51928783
It was a serious game, we wanted to try 5e and that was simple enough. To be fair, he skipped the sacrifice description and put some serious work RPing the townsfolk, but the dungeon and its combat was lame af.

>>51928767
Morgan Ironwolf is a badass bitch. Colville is not. You are not, either.

Remember to roll a dice for each NPC: odd=male, even=female. Male pregnancy = wizard did it, it's quest time.

>>51928767
Please fuck off back to Plebbit.

P.S. It's definitely okay to have cultists sacrificing a woman. A virgin woman, even!

>>51928904
>P.S. It's definitely okay to have cultists sacrificing a woman. A virgin woman, even!
I agree. And I think Colville is wrong about that. I just don't think it's sexist for him to bring up feminism or female representation in general.

I mean, shit, I love the Lankhmar books, but I can also see sexism in them.

I've been on 4chan since 2007, by the way.

Let's say I want to use B/X, but change the magic system to the DCC one. What else would have to be changed to B/X to balance this?

>>51928904
Indeed, love me some virgin blood from time to time. But really, it was very poorly executed, they guy assumes that the girl has no personality or motivations. For fucks sake I want a strong girl that fights for her life! I want to throw her a dagger and let her join the carnage. I want her to become frenzied by the bloodshed, or traumatized, or suddenly moved to become an adventurer and save other virgins from cultist sacrifice. I want her to become my loyal retainer!

The last thing I want is a damsell in distress, just because, like a cheap sticker on the cover that says 'you must empathise!'. The guy actually says something in the video about the players being compelled to help her because she's caged. And nothing else about her.

That said, I wouldn't say no to cultists sacrificing a cute virgin twink fuccboy - and all of the above still applies.

>>51928904
>P.S. It's definitely okay to have cultists sacrificing a woman. A virgin woman, even!
But the post that anon was responding to, wasn't responding to the thing about the cultist.

>>51905847
What's your absolute favorite OSR?

>>51929125
B/X

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>>51928979
>I love the Lankhmar books
>I've been on 4chan since 2007
>And I think

>>51929025
Just the MU xp table?

>>51929145
https://mega.nz/#F!7xdGUDaR!DAHjel-07Eq__KdJAHPgXw!P9kXRSqY which of these do I download?

>>51922549
>Beasties
Is it in the trove, perhaps?

>>51929223
'81 Basic rules> Basic (Moldvay)

Basic covers the basics, and has rules for levels 1 to 3 - and skips the complex or detailed stuff (that's in the Expert book).
When your players learn the game and level up, go for Expert.

If you want to get the most out of it, forget everything you know about rpgs and play it by the book. It's actually quite simple, very few rolls and the right amount of crunch.
When your group have played it for some time you can houserule it to your hearts content, or move into another OSR system to fit your campaign, but give it a chance.

>>51929028
Ah, yes. Frenzied by bloodshed. This is what scared traumatized young people do. Go jerk off to your edgy progressive fantasies on tumblr you gigantic fucking faggot.

>>51929223
You want two files:
• ./'81 Basic Rules - Moldvay (Bx)/TSR 2014 - Basic (Moldvay - BX).pdf
• ./'81 Basic Rules - Moldvay (Bx)/TSR 2015 - Expert Rulebook (Cook - BX).pdf

>>51929321
>When your players learn the game and level up, go for Expert
You don't need to start with Expert, but you SHOULD start with (most of) the rules Expert supplants from Basic.

>>51929359
Anon, you need to stop circlejerking with the troll.

>>51929359
Pretty sure you're just trolling, but still:

>what scared traumatized young people do
If that's true, how does that apply to the PCs?

>>51929422
Not a troll, just complaining about lack of depth in some guy's adventure. I proposed over the top solutions, but it's supposed to be a cultist sacrifice, right? Gotta be pulpy.

>>51927354
>And that's what D&D is about.
Pointless dungeon crawling? If I wanted that I'd play 3.PF

>PURPLE WORMS: These huge and hungry monsters lurk nearly everywhere just beneath the surface of the land. Some reach a length of 50 feet and a girth of nearly 10 feet diameter. There is a poisonous sting at its tail, but its mouth is the more fearsome weapon, for it is so large as to be able to swallow up to ogre-sized opponents in one gulp. Any hit which scores over 20% of the minimum total required to hit, or 100% in any case, indicates the Purple Worm has swallowed its victim. In six turns the swallowed creature will be dead. In twelve turns it will be totally digested and irrecoverable. Purple Worms never check morale and will always attack.

https://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/the-king-of-old-school-monsters.html

The true end of any campaign setting is when the purple worms and sea monsters rise up and devour the world and all within it, leaving only a few shattered, shell-shocked cloud giants drifting in their castles above an endless, writhing mass of mindless hunger.

>>51929383
>>51929411
Disagree. Basic does an excelent job, specially with new players, and has temporal rules for higher level opponents that make your life easier. If you want the price of a Catapul, that's in Expert, yes.

Even if you play modules with hexcrawling, you only need Basic - for example B2 gives you all you need for wilderness exploration. If you don't know a rule, make it up.
That's the beauty of Basic, it's the astroglide of D&D rulesets.

>>51929668
That's like, your opinion. It's only pointless if you aren't having fun.
Besides, I have the impression that 3.pf is a lot more about characters and character development? Not even about "characters in dungeons", or "adventurers" even, plain character development.
But idk, the only and last time I played 3.5 was in 2006

>>51929668
3.pf isn't suited for dungeon delving
not really suited for hex crawling, either

>>51930088
It's mostly suited for toilet reading and the best way to have fun with it is to get into crazy theoretical optimisation shenanigans.

>>51930120
tl;dr read 3.pf, but don't EVER play it

>>51929668
Define pointless, and explain why your story-focused OSR game isn't that.

>>51929453
>If that's true, how does that apply to the PCs?

It wouldn't, PCs are under player control, and players are confirmed by long scientific research to be a bunch of amoral bloodthirsty sociopaths who wouldn't bat an eye at blood sacrifice if it gave them a to-hit bonus.

>>51919097
Thank you! I looked, I swear.

>>51926546
This. I'd say he's OSR without being actually being OSR.

The amount of trolling in /osr/ is unbearable. I miss when this board used to be creative and lighthearted :(

Honestly I get really turned off whenever something gets political when I'm listening to podcasts about gaming or storytelling or something. I just want to sit back and relax, I don't want to hear your rant on Trump or Liberals or gender relations, just be entertaining. If I want politics I'll go look for something political. You play games on the internet, you're not a social commentator.

>>51931149
It was way worse a couple months ago. Much better now.

>>51931149
You miss something that never was. These threads had their fair share of trolling (mostly bickering over OSR mechanics between people that see no value in certain OSR mechanics and people that will preserve all OSR mechanics no matter how inane) and otherwise tended to stagnate into circle jerks.

>>51931321
>new
The original /osrg/ threads of the first few months were actually uncannily friendly, helpful and enthusiastic, not just for /tg/ but for the internet in general.It's definitely gotten worse since then. I have an idea what caused the collapse into barely-above-/tg/-average, but it would probably cause another flamewar and I don't want that. Besides it's hard to see the point in debating it.

>>51931424
>The original /osrg/ threads of the first few months were actually uncannily friendly
When were those? 2008-2009? I have no clue.

Anyway, /osrg/ was a little messy last years because of stuff like LotFP and ACKS becoming more popular, which lead to new people coming here and trolls realizing that it's easy to get a reaction out of people in the OSR. It's definitely been better since Christmas though, probably because kids went back to school.

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>>51931149
Something, something, rosy retrospection.

Every anonymous forum has been shit, going back to antiquity:
>O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin.

>>51931424
>The original /osrg/ threads of the first few months were actually uncannily friendly, helpful and enthusiastic, not just for /tg/ but for the internet in general.

Can confirm, been here since the OSR General threads started, and they were polite and helpful to an uncanny degree.

>>51931424
I'm highly curious about your theory. Just put it in spoilers, say it's probably wrong, and it probably won't cause issues.

>>51931424
I've been on 4chan since 2006. You just have rose-tinted glasses. When OSR generals weren't descending into bickering about whether or not to preserve in amber every idea Gygax ever had, they were just circle-jerking about the same three games.

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>>51932397

>circlejerk, n. 1. (4chan) A group of people who like something the poster doesn't like. Esp. used when the poster demanded they stop liking it and was ignored.

>>51932744
Nah. Mostly just rehashing the same tired topics and tongue-bathing these games as though they were a beached whale in danger of drying out. Specifically Lamentations of the Flame Princess, B/X, and Labyrinth Lord.

I'm sorry it hurts your feelings that someone remembers these threads differently than you, but the fact is they've always been pretty typical of threads on 4chan. Would you like a hug and a kiss on the forehead to feel better?

When should you use random tables and when you shouldn't?

>>51933239
When their results improve the game.

>>51933239
You should use them when you feel you don't have a better (more sensible, more interesting, whatever) idea, you shouldn't use them when you feel you have a better (more sensible, more interesting, whatever) idea.

>>51933239
What kind of random tables? Are you referring to random tables during a session or random tables when designing dungeons?

>>51933187
This is absolute bullcrap, and you know it.
Ignoring the circlejerk, these threads used to be oddly comfortable for a 4chan general until the last past month where they just plummeted in quality.
Feel free to remember it differently, but I'd also like archived older threads that contained the same amount of trash our current ones do.

Did anyone actually have experiences with running Maze of the Blue Medusa?
Currently reading through it, and there's a lot to like about it.
I'm a bit worried about the material density though. Little downtime in hallways, and empty rooms. Just content left and right.
Maybe that's for the best though.
Thoughts?

>>51933811
What caused the drop in quality? We might as well argue over meta shit like the state of the thread because we're just going to argue over mechanics we don't like otherwise and we're pretty dead now anyway.

>>51933894

Well, for one thing, people in the early threads would disagree with each other without being nasty about it. We still do to some extent, but there's a few posters now who like to vilify people they disagree with.

>>51933841
>Thoughts?
Hipster garbage masquerading as art for impressionable T$Rcucks

>>51934137
True TSRgods don't play anything that wasn't made by TSR, nice try false flagger

>>51933894
>What caused the drop in quality?
LotFP getting more and more popular and Godbound getting released, which caused new people and trolls to join and ask questions that upset some anons, which led to arguments. But that was a couple months ago and now it's alright.

>>51934130
>We still do to some extent, but there's a few posters now who like to vilify people they disagree with.
That is always the case with everything on 4chan.

>>51934390
>That is always the case with everything on 4chan.

Yeah, but the threads were noticeably better than elsewhere on 4chan, is the point. They were anomolously pleasant and friendly, now they've gotten big, they're pretty much standard 4chan fare.

>>51933841
I was kind of hoping it was in the trove yesterday, because I like to look through books before I buy them at the least.

>>51934634
It is.

How does thieves' skills work on basic? Do only thieves can do them? If not, them does everyone else roll attribute checks for them? Does the thief choose what she will roll or she must use her class chance even if it's worse than rolling under dex? Does she roll twice, one for the check and other for the skill?

>>51934658
Okay, I'm just blind then. Will delve deep.

>>51934703
I couldn't find it either, let me know if you do

>>51934675
>How does thieves' skills work on basic? Do only thieves can do them?
They're quasi-supernatural, and only Thieves can use them. For instance, Hide in Shadows lets you hide in a literal shadow. Other people can't do this; they can hide, but not in a mere shadow. Similarly other adventurers can climb, but not climb sheer walls with no tools -- and so on.

>If not, them does everyone else roll attribute checks for them?
No, you just resolve it by description. "I hide behind the crate." Okay, so the refreee decides whether that's a sensible hiding place or not. If yes, it works; no need to roll. In fact, it's a bit bizarre to roll to see whether someone successfully hides in a sensible hiding place: what the fuck's supposed to be going wrong? In the same way there's no point in rolling for whether someone can hide behind a rope, so you don't. (As an aside, a LOT of 3.pf skill system autism, HURR I ROLLED A 20 and so on, arises from players being conditioned to using this type of pointless rolling in place of common sense and thus thinking absurd outcomes are defensible.)

>Does she roll twice, one for the check and other for the skill?
Some people (those who *do* like to use attribute checks for stealth and such) do it this way, yes. Usually you'd *start* by rolling for the skill, though, as hiding in a shadow is superior to regular stealth, so there's no point in bothering with the stealth check if that succeeds.

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>>51934675
Thieves have a special set of skills that they can attempt better than others. This leads to butthurt divisiveness on the class.

According to the RULES AS WRITTEN:

Hide in Shadows: Magic items like "Elven Cloak" give non-thieves a 1-in-6 chance of this. Thieves can attempt it on their own.
Move Silently: Magic items like "Elven Boots" let non-thieves move silently. Thieves can attempt this on their own.
Find/Remove Traps: Anyone can find a trap on 1-in-6 (2-in-6 for Dwarves.) Only a Thief can attempt to disarm it.
Listen: Anyone can try this on a 1-in-6. Demi humans and Thieves get 1-2, but only the Thief scales as they level up.
Climb Sheer Surfaces: Anyone can attempt to climb; the DM determines it's difficulty. Thieves can attempt to climb slick ass, difficult shit.
Open Lock: Other classes can try forcing it open on a d6+STR Modifier roll. It's loud tho. Wizards can get a spell to do it. Only thieves can attempt to lockpick.
Pick Pocket: Rules as written, only a Thief can attempt this.

>>51934137
Nice buzzwords.
I suppose this proves >>51934130

>>51934675
Warning, potential rulings ahead.

Pick lock: Specific to thieves, others can't do it
Find traps: Although other classes an find traps (2-in-6 for dwarves, 1-in-6 for the rest), they can't find magic traps.
Removing traps: No rules, so they probably can't without a clear solution or chance to spring it
Pick pockets: No rules, but probably exclusive to thieves
Hide in shadows: Other classes can hide, but they can't *hide in shadows*, as in standing still in a shadow and become hidden. That's thief-exclusive.
Climb sheer surfaces: Other PCs can climb normal things, but they can't supernaturally climb sheer surfaces like a spider without magical means.
Move silently: Every PC is assumed to move sneakily and silently when traversing the dungeon, but only the thief can become completely silent while wearing all of their armor and gear.
Hear noise: 1-6 for humans, 2-6 for demihumans

>>51934703
>>51934915
I was on the same search recently, so lemme help you out.
>02_Supplements >01_Adventures>Maze of the Blue Medusa.pdf

>>51934915
02_Supplements > 01_Adventures.

Right there at the bottom.

>>51934971
>>51935017
>>51935070
Thanks, one more question: any character can declare she is moving sneakily, but do monsters roll to find her or they must be actively searching for her to be able to roll?

>>51935114
Ah, thanks. Kind of confusing, when all the other related books are elsewhere.

>>51935176
I believe that idea is that all PCs are already "sneaking" when traversing through the dungeon, so the rules are made for that in mind. It's when PCs break that sneak and make a lot of noise that a wandering monster check might be made.

I rule that thief skills are exclusive to thieves and every party is required to have one to severely reduce dungeon lethality.

It was designed this way for a reason, you metagaming shits "b-but my full platemail wearing paladin should be able to move silently bawwwwww" can fuck right off and head to /pfg/ or another 3.X esque shithole thread if you don't like it.

Complaining about your non-thief character not being able to do thief stuff like detect and disarm traps is the literal equivalent of complaining that your fighter can't cast spells. Dumb minmaxers who think they know better than Gygax.

>>51921872

don't abandon it, set a rest period and make yourself come back to it after a break. More fun to finish things up to a standard you're pleased with.

>>51935277
>I rule that thief skills are exclusive to thieves and every party is required to have one to severely reduce dungeon lethality.
Ok, nothing wrong with this

>It was designed this way for a reason, you metagaming shits "b-but my full platemail wearing paladin should be able to move silently bawwwwww" can fuck right off and head to /pfg/ or another 3.X esque shithole thread if you don't like it.
No reason to be so rude

>Dumb minmaxers who think they know better than Gygax.
Thieves weren't his idea afaik

Does B/X have Attack Bonuses? Or is that kind of a LotFP/BFRPG thing?

>>51935381
>Thieves weren't his idea afaik

They were invented on the west coast by the Complete Warlock people. A guy who played in that campaign called Gygax and gave him a half-remembered rundown from a player's POV, and Gygax liked it enough that he immediately went and started writing his own thief.

>>51935406
It has descending AC combat matrix. Every class at the same level (without bonuses or penalties to strength for melee and dexterity for ranged) has the same chance to hit.

>>51935176
Just wanted to back up >>51935262: the basic assumption is that PCs care about their health and thus are sneaking (as well as moving slowly and carefully to scout) at all times unless they say otherwise.
Normally, then, the "monster roll to find" is represented by the monsters' side of the surprise check in the beginning of an encounter. Note, for instance, that what monsters in ambush get is an increased surprise chance (normally 4-in-6). It's not stated explicitly, but it's clear that PCs wishing to set up an ambush could use the same figure.

>>51935250
I believe it's because Blue Medusa was published by a different publisher. Most of Zak's work was published by Raggi, but not MotBM.

>>51935518
Wont clerics just be better than fighters than?

>>51935176
Not this anon, but here's some related questions:

Is there a roll to find someone/something hidden?
As I understand it only traps and secret doors get a roll. Stuff that's hidden is found by searching 10 minutes, full stop.

A thief hiding in shadows would become visible as soon as the area is lit, right?

And, does being hidden (ambushing) modify surprise? if so, page reference?

How can players increase their surprise chance (without DM fiat)?

Is there a way to +1 the party initiative?

How does paired combat work, is it just an option for 1 vs 1 duels? How can players force this to happen, instead of a normal combat with group initiative?

>>51935620
Fighters have a higher hit die and can use any type of weapon.

>>51935620
In basic, yeah, pretty much, apart from fighters having d8 hit points.
Expert they do have a better chance to hit.

>>51935176
If you're moving quietly past nearby monsters they have a chance to hear you (2-in-6, or something?), but Thieves who pass their Move Silently check make *no sound*

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>>51935518
>Every class at the same level (without bonuses or penalties to strength for melee and dexterity for ranged) has the same chance to hit.
Say what?

>>51935825
true for basic, not for expert.

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>>51935620
Classes need different amounts of xp to level and have different saves.
Also fighters make lots of attacks against groups of weak enemies.
Also also Clerics don't get spells until 2nd level.
Also also also fighters get better HD than Clerics.

>>51935277
>you metagaming shits "b-but my full platemail wearing paladin should be able to move silently bawwwwww" can fuck right off and head to /pfg/ or another 3.X esque shithole thread if you don't like it.
You do realize that actual real life platemail is surprisingly quiet and light, right?

>>51935898
>Also fighters make lots of attacks against groups of weak enemies.
Where in the book does it say this? Can't find it anywhere.

>>51935934
Are you talking "you can walk through a perfectly silent room with a non-carpeted floor and nobody will know you're there" quiet? Because that's what move silently is.

>>51935661
>Is there a roll to find someone/something hidden? As I understand it only traps and secret doors get a roll. Stuff that's hidden is found by searching 10 minutes, full stop.
Yes, although some kind of puzzle solving or specific thing has to be done to find something.

>A thief hiding in shadows would become visible as soon as the area is lit, right?
I'd say so, yes.

>And, does being hidden (ambushing) modify surprise? if so, page reference?
Not in the rules so I'm unsure, but it would give a bonus for striking from behind. Anon at >>51935601 makes an interesting case for why the surprise chance is implied to be increased though, and I don't see a problem with it.

>How can players increase their surprise chance (without DM fiat)?
As I wrote above, maybe through ambushing. There also seems to be an implication that a smaller group is more likely to surprise at page B19, so maybe that ties into it somehow. It's a bit vague.

>Is there a way to +1 the party initiative?
Nothing about it in the rules. Party initiative is a way to do combat quicker and a bit more swingy, so having modifications would kinda ruin that.

>How does paired combat work, is it just an option for 1 vs 1 duels? How can players force this to happen, instead of a normal combat with group initiative?
It's an option for any number of characters in a battle. The players and the DM probably come to a decision whether to use it or not at the start of the game or the start of combat.

>>51935825
>>51935842
Yeah, I only gave him the Basic rules and kind of forgot about Expert. Apologies.

>>51935961
Do they not have that in Basic!?

Damn near every version of TSR's D&D gives fighters attacks up to their level against "weak" (below 1HD in systems where lv.1 fighters have 1HD, or 1HD in systems where lv.1 fighters have 1+1HD) enemies.

>>51936060
I'm not sure man, I was genuinely asking. I've seen it mentioned a few times, but in a quick scan of both basic and expert I can't see it.

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So, S&W Complete does its initiative like this. I really like it. Where'd they get it? Is it how Chainmail works or something?

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>>51935934
>sabatons, or shoes, or anything on hard stone floors, with puddles and grit, bones and other crap, when the noise in the deep dark echoes
Only the thief can pass without noise, man.

>>51935661
>As I understand it only traps and secret doors get a roll.
Only *small* traps (including quite a few low level spells) get detected or disarmed by rolls.
The vast majority of trap detection/disarming has to be done by roleplay:
>as we walk, we press a 10-foot pole agianst the floor to probe for pitfalls/tripwires
>can I wedge an iron spike into the mechanism anywhere?
>OK, we skip that step on the stair
>do we see anything on the ceiling?
>I stick a 10-foot pole into the portal, then pull it back out
etc.