/GURPSGEN/ Bring out your GURPS

>>51897446
There is no first volume of Vehicular Collection in MEGA, and second volume is older version. Anyone can fix it?

I'm running a gonzo samurai/western game, and it's going pretty well. The party is attempting to rescue a samurai that was captured digging up info on a corrupt local lord. Last session saw them doing a breach-and-clear through the slums, cleaning out thugs. Monk is beating people down, sniper is killing them from afar, bushi is cleaving dudes in half, and the courtier is desperately knifing people to death.

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>>51897446
Stargate 1888 died a month or so back; reincarnated as Firefly: The Verse!

Session 0 and 0.5 just happened, next week the party begins their journey of intrigue and old fashioned violence, navigating the waters of browncoats versus Alliance core. GM left us on a cliffhanger with an anonymous cargo drop in deep red sun rim space. We suspect space Mexican smuggling.

Also, lesbians.

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>>51897970
Oh my god. Can I join?

>>51897978
>Lesbians
Still don't see it, but who knows I might be missing something.
Overall I have to say verse has a fun cast.
We have the captain, whom seems friendly but distant, the pilot who thinks she is hot shit and abusing the engines on our ship, the coms person, who is catty and lives in her work area,the mechanic that sounds like he has done many different jobs and may or may not be burrowing into unoccupied living quarters, the old man who seems to be just an old dude who is around to help out, and the cat who keeps space rats away.

>>51897970
Got more info on the characters? Sounds like a fun game.
Any interesting previous adventures or backstory bits you care to share?

>>51898289
The monk is the party paladin; Sense of Duty + Compulsive Vowing is a fun combo and an easy way for me to keep the game going. I'm currently thinking of a way to help him out in combat because the bushi is leaving him behind in terms of damage and none of his Chi skills are high enough to be reliable in combat. I *think* he has TBaM that he's currently not exploiting, though, so I'll talk to him about rapid strikes.

The sniper is a fucking beast. Riffle-22 plus Targeted Attack to drop Skull hits to only -3 is stupidly effective. This current encounter is a challenge for him, though, because it's finally making him face his rifle's limited number of shots and slow reload time (it's basically a fuckhuge revolver). Planning on reintroducing the ronin sniper eventually; after their last faceoff left the PC with a perforated lung, he's been thirsting for a rematch. Has thoroughly fucked up every attempt at seducing his superior but is hoping to have better luck after learning his clan's courtier style. Party comic relief/murderhobo.

The bushi originally bought a fuckton of ST so he could carry a bunch of heavy weapons, but he has recently decided to return to the way of the blade with bloody results. He's also the only samurai smart enough to wear armor, and his heavy plate lets him AOA (Strong) in relative safety for even more brutality. He still keeps his shotgun loaded with blessed slugs with him in case they end up facing a coco or other abomination from beyond the Adobe Wall. Party straightman when not kicking in doors/walls/people.

The courtier is a fucker, but in a good way. Between his +7 to most reaction rolls and stupidly-high Fast-Talk, he's sidestepped or greatly mitigated most encounters. He's also a doped-up alcoholic native that is learning how to contact the spirits. Recently mourning the destruction of his favorite suit. Party wiseguy (and I don't mean he's insightful).

We're only on the second adventure; I'll give a recap when we finish.

>>51897991
Are you in the central Texas area?

>>51898773
Different anon but, you make me wish I did.

>>51897978
>>51898047
So what all happened? Got more to share?

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>>51899362

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>>51900215
So far not much; we waited a few hours on one guy to finish his character, so we had a late start. Mostly been feeling out our characters and bumping into the rough edges.

the ship is sure shiny tho!

>>51897978
>players with incase art for avatars
You sure this isnt an ERP game? Nobody went full whore/companion?

>>51901285
Thank you Anon, I was offered that as art for my character and no one would tell me where it was from. Could not find it on my own. Victory is mine!

>>51901358
Most of the best stuf fis on tumblr now, but the shortstack comic buttsmithy.com is still going strong

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High-Tech states that firing rifle with bayonet attached gives you -1 penalty. Since Mosin rifle was made and zeroed to be fired with bayonet, does it means it instead gets -1 when fired without it?

>>51901619
Logic follows, sure
As long as youre not spouting /k/ memes

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>>51897446

I am running a GURPS Banestorm game where the PC's are Russian Mafia on a nice boat. Right now the party know that there are loads of AKM's and other guns on the boat. As well as finding out that their boat had crashed on an island Monastery off the cost of Blit Island.

As of the last session they spotted some not so friendly men come from Blit Island and make their way towards the Monastery.

>>51901741
>AKM and guns
I'm not sure that's good for the setting.

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>>51901758
Hey now, just because he wants potentially destructive forces unleashed in a weird magic game doesnt mean its the wrong way to play.

No badwrongfun here please

>>51902204
The book literally tells you not to do it though. That's as close to badwrongfun as can be.

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>>51902235

Pretty much

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I'm planning a setting based loosely on ca. 16th–17th-century South-East Asia (with some African and Caribbean influences) that is going to have a lot of islands, piracy, and such.
Are GURPS vehicles rules good enough for small-scale naval warfare during that period?

>>51901285
he said he needed androgynous art, so I provided androgynous art. t. Adolf


>>51900656
The ship is called the "Féi Yā", or Fat Duck. An old surplussed-out Alliance cargo vessel with most of the good bits torn out and taped over. We like to think it had an appropriately respectable name before we called it the Fat Duck.

>>51902294
They could handle it. I'd note that ship-on-ship fights in that era/area would be less 'blast the ship' then boarding and assaulting in person. Marines more then cannons.

>>51902272
Fuck you banestorm
I WONT DO WHAT YA TOLD ME

>>51900215
Session 0 had no roleplay and not a lot of interconnected character building and meshing. This session 0.5 AKA session 1 we just did was more of the fill in for that. Lots of talking, mostly.

>>51902340
I still say renaming a boat is bad luck even if it is a space boat.

>>51902587
>not a lot of interconnected character building and meshing
I wouldnt say that; everyone but Sinistar was chipping in idea on how to interconeect the group. And the discord chat was live all week. Just missing joush in there

>>51897446

My shifts where I got up at 3 AM and got home at 3:30 PM are over, for now, so I can devote myself to getting my game running. Will update you guys when it happens, maybe.

Does anyone have any ideas/systems for town generation? Streets are secondary, I'm more interested in areas, like commercial area, residential, etc.

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>>51902272
>entire point/huge plot point of setting is that weird portal shit puts modern day people into fantasy setting
>advise that people completely ignore the implications of modern people being injected into a fantasy setting and ban everything not fantasy
i don't get it
i don't get it at all

>>51901619
>firing with a bayonet attached gives you -1 penalty

Fucking why? Is the idea that it makes the weight and balance of the weapon wonkier, or something?

>>51903227
A minus one is a minor penalty.

>>51903227
Really it should only penalize muzzle loading time and give +1 Bulk.

>>51903255
No it isn't.

>>51903290
A 1 not in your favor is literally the most minor penalty in the game.

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>>51903311
And yet, in GURPS, that can swing a large percentage of your ability at a time

>>51903342
It's still a minor penalty.

>>51903290
So you are skill 11 so 1 point, 10 in dex. -1 brings you to ten average on 3d6 is 10.5,let's say the gun has acc 2,that is 12, you will hit on average, it is weighted towards 10, if you have any skill with the weapon it has almost no effect on your accuracy. It's not like other systems where a -1 is a universal 5% loss.

>>51902928
Uh no, the huge plot point is that it nearly entirely take people from the middle ages to the renaissance or so.

Is there a list of everything Immune to Metabolic Hazards protects against?

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>party pressed a button a few sessions ago to fend off a massed dragon attack
>ancient evil nuked everything around us, successfully fending off the attack
>everyone we've since come across has been dead, including the very magic in the air
>water springs are putrid and polluted, the moon shines green, and forlorn spirits haunt us in our sleep and beg for release

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>>51903552

Hello /gurpsgen/, can I interest you in a weekly GURPS game, in a medieval campaign? I run it through roll20 and I've 4 out of 5 spots still open. Date and time is to be decided, but I want to adapt to my players.

If you're interested, https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/70300/gurps-interregnum

>>51904082
Sounds intriguing, count me in.
It's bedtime in my timezone though so I won't apply on roll20 until tomorrow, please reserve a slot for me!

>>51904082
Wow looks like fun. Pity I'm already running my game in the timeslot/my wife would kill me to join another regular game.

One minor tip, explicitly state in your campaign blurb what the sense of duty and patron are/include. I can infer that it's a sense for the party/organization but you gotta specify these things to mitigate future issues :p
/Rant

>>51904297
>explicitly state in your campaign blurb what the sense of duty and patron are/include.
The sense of duty I felt was sort of obvious, but I'll do so. The organization itself is the patron, but in the text I already mention that it's worth 0 points, as in 'it can literally do nothing for you', but this will change depending on the player's actions. I'm hoping that this will motivate the players to help out their faction beyond what is strictly necessary or what they've been ordered, although of course it is purely optional.

>>51904386
The difference between implication and understanding is the average intelligence. And half of those folk are stupider than you think.

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Is ST overpriced? It feels like even though it's exponential, it still gives diminishing returns, compared to equally costed options. A couple of points in ST, can give a character an edge in melee, help them carry more, and make them a bit tougher, but beyond 13 or 14 points, it doesn't really do much to give you more. And one you start buying superhuman, or even just really high ST, it becomes ridiculously expensive. For the price of getting to 21 ST with the Gigantism discount, you could buy ATR, which is way more powerful. (Or hell, even two levels of ATR, if you took something like "needs recharge" and a power modifier)

Is there any good ways to discount buying strength, besides Gigantism? I want to make it more attractive to players, because on all my years I've never seen someone buy more than a couple levels into it. It feels like there is just SO much more you could be doing with those points instead.

>>51904082
I'm interested but I'm stuck on mobile only right now (CPU went Caput in desktop, waiting on new one to arrive in the post). Would you be willing to add me on Discord, or such in the meantime?

>>51904893
Ideas:
Use Knowing Your Own Strength from Alternate GURPS IV.
Reprice Strength to 5/level.
Give them points to only spend on ST.
Make high ST relevant in your campaigns.

>>51904947
>Reprice Strength to 5/level.
That's what I was thinking, but I was worried it might be too low. Does it seem fair to you?

>>51905125
It'll make incremental buying of ST pretty much worthless, so nobody will buy HP, or Lifting/Striking ST. It'll also make it cheap to be able to punch through almost any armor that isn't a trauma plate.

>>51905177
Could lower the incrimental costs, to compensate. 2 points for lifting ST and HP, 3 for striking ST.(and I always discourage buying these anyway, very munchkin)

Yeah, does make melee damage get high pretty easy, but that's only assuming people buy ST that high. I don't think even with the lowered cost, it would result in a ton of ST 20 PCs running around, because it's still rather a niche attribute. Not a lot of concepts involve high ST, and those that don't, don't really benefit from it that much.

>>51904893
Look at the options for strength in GURPS supers.

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Anyone ever do a tank based campaign?

I wanna do a campaign where a cut off Leopard 1 tank crew has to fight their way through Soviet territory. Kinda like a cold war gone hot Fury.

>>51906645
Sounds super fun desu senpai

I'm trying to remember in which book contained some bio weapons. If I recall correctly, this book had a section with some bio weapons used by an alien race, I can remember an insect that was mounted on the forearms and shoot explosive darts (or was it explosive offsprings?) and an armor that required a painful bonding procedure to be worn but was quite effective.

>>51907874
Send before finishing. Can someone please tell me which book had it? I looked at Bio Tech but apparently it wasn't it.

>>51906884
I just need to figure out tank combat in GURPS and get the vehicles in order. Any tips?

>>51907920
Sorry bud. I'm not too experienced with GURPS, so I can't help you out much in that department.

I have heard that the FFG Only War game has some pretty good rules for running vehicle crews -- you might be able to pull some inspiration from there.

>>51906645
Having one tank is bad idea, honestly. The only person who will have fun during tank combat is commander, because he's only one who makes decisions. It will look like that:
>Commander: Go there
>Driver: I'm going where he said
>Commander: Shoot there with that type of shell
>Radio operator/loader: I'm loading shell
>Gunner: I shoot at target designated by commander
>GM: You received following radio transmission
>Radio operator/loader: Hey commander, we received following radio transmission

>>51908851
I don't know if that's fair.

>Driver:

How to get to where the commander's picked, and how to overcome problems like the tank getting stuck or caught on something. Spotting threats out of the limited view, and evading attacks.

>Gunner

Picking exactly how to shoot a target, how long to aim, ect. Picking out the highest piroirty target when there are several, and using the coax MG to drive off soft targets.

The loader has the least interesting job, but that's only in tank-on-tank engagements. There's other kinds of fight a crew might get into.

I'm running my second campaign soon, the first one a short introductory run.

Anyway, I want to run a "realistic" high-fantasy game about regular dudes trying to survive in a world with magic and monsters. Think Black Company for the feel I'm going for, although there won't be a company involved.

I'm thinking of going 100/-25 for points, but additionally to that I want to impose a maximum skill-cap of 15 on the players on all skills, both to promote variety and because regular dudes can't thread an arrow into an orc's eye socket from 100 paces.

Is the 15 skill cap okay for a realistic campaign (in the GURPS sense of realistic) or is it too onerous? I also plan to keep skill progression as stated in the Basic Set book, so it should be pretty slow.

Hey boys, how viable is a warhammer 40k game in GURPS? I need ideas for weapons/armor/ammo for guardsmen anyone wants to help out.

Okay so, how do I disarm an enemy, and keep the weapon I take from him? Like wrestling a gun out of some one's hands, for instance. Would I literally do wrestling grapple attack on the gun, and then a strength / skill quick contest?

>>51909845
Grab weapon@break grip

>>51909914
I'm not seeing that listed anywhere. Where is it?

>>51909953
In technical grappling

>>51909773
Biggest obstacle is how damn inconsistent the lore for 40k is.

>>51909366
I'd say bump the cap to 18; once-a-generation level of skill isn't as out-there.

>>51907891
>>51907874
If it's referencing a specific alien race or whatever, it sounds more like a setting book than a generic *-tech book. It could be from any of the dozen 3e setting books, or maybe it's something weird from Warehouse 23 (the book, not the site).

>>51909773

Extraordinarily viable, the problem is how in-story the Space Marine capabilities change per author per situation. So there's a chance that once you get your Space Marines Right, they won't be right for another scene because you yourself are adjusted to the narativium.

Why am I talking Marines when you're talking guard's men? Because Marines fight the same things the Guardsmen do, just die less.

Spitball what where the Marines will be and that will give you your general Xeno Threat strength, and then you'll know what kind of weapons you need.

Honestly, I'd go into High Tech, pick out WWII stuff, bump up the weapons up a notch and add an extra die to it. (Pi+ to Pi++) Then light it on fire.

I think Ultra Tech has some laser weapons for the flashlights...

Hah, even Ultratech's problems will fit in with 40k. (A common house rule is to double the DR for the armor otherwise it's basically tissuepaper to the weapons)

How much survivability will affected after doubling HP and DR with adding AD (2) to pi/imp damage types?
Doesn't this will make character more durable during gunfights, and give more sustain in melee, like less one-shots and more active action time?

>>51904893
Extreme Damage is an article in either Alternate GURPS I or II. It talks about, amongst other things, increasing the rate of damage increase at ST 20+

>>51909366
>maximum skill-cap of 15
Make that cap relative level instead. Much more "fair" in the players eyes

Any of you ever tried to blend syntactic or symbol magic with RPM before?

>>51914513
Nothing happens, in fact.
Players just need to learn more skills to stay actual. And for symbol variant it's easier to get bigger discounts for fancy symbol blings.

My GM is running Dungeon Fantasy, and I wanted to make a barbarian character. I was thinking about taking Berserk, but it seems downright suicidal, especially for a melee character. Not having any active defenses, seems like it would result in getting absolutely torn to shreds, without a decent level of DR. Is there any way to mitigate that, beyond maybe "kill everyone near you on your turn before they can get a hit in"?

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>>51914738
>"kill everyone near you on your turn before they can get a hit in"
You don't believe, duude!

And take race with DR and get some chainmail hoodie and pants. Long reach, moving farther than 1 step and right positioning is bread&butter for berserks.
Or be a pussy and don't mess around with Berserk dis.

>>51914903
>moving farther than 1 step
The rest makes sense, but since you can't retreat, wouldn't that just lead to you throwing yourself deeper into the thick of shit?

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>>51914964
U don get it.
>moving farther than 1 step and right positioning
And AOA says:
>Movement: You may move up to half your Move, but you can only move forward.

>>51915050
But Berserk requires you to get as close as possible to enemies whenever you move, so the more you can move, the more likely you are to smash yourself against them, and wind up sorrounded. Which is even worse if you have a long reach weapon.

>>51915104
>Berserk requires you to get as close as possible
No.
>If armed with a hand weapon, you must make an All-Out Attack each turn a foe is in range.
If u have reach 3 and move 6, your effective reach is 6 for sake to get attack on enemy in front of you with that weapon or 7 with Long option or even 9 for move&attack. U even can circle around them until they still in reach.
Nothing says you should act like freakin bestial no brainer until u just stupid I-hit-it-with-my-axe or have Bestial dis.

>>51914738
I think you're missing the fact that Berserk leaves you functioning at full capacity, unless your arms get crippled. You take no penalties at all to move, and stun and shock do nothing. Between that, the 13 HT the Barbarian has, and the +4 to not die or pass out, you will be killing till you hit -5xHP (and since you start with 17 ST, that's a whopping 102 points of damage you can soak up, without including DR). By the time you hit that point, every enemy had damn well better be dead. The only downside is getting healed back up to full HP, afterwards, cause your shit is going to be FUCKED UP.

>>51897446
So, GURPS friends, like always late to the party and like always with stupid question

We are trying to pull a pirate campaign in realistic TL4, no magic, with fairly competent starting characters and there is a debate:
110 and 30 in disadvantages
vs
125 and 25 in disadvantages
Since this is barely any difference, we just need someone else to take the voice and decide, since the party is split in half about it.

>>51915475
125/-25. You'll be at a 150 point total, and a lower disadvantage limit means it's easier to justify taking one or two big disadvantages, rather than half a dozen small ones to pad out the disad limit.

>>51915414
The rest of that very same line is
>If no foe is in range, you must use a Move maneuver to get as close as possible to a foe and if you can Move and Attack, or end your Move with a slam, you will.
So if you have a reach 3 weapon and they're more than 3 yards away, then you have to move and attack, and get as CLOSE TO THEM AS POSSIBLE, even if it means your reach 3 weapon can't attack properly, you have to get into C range, if you can manage it on that action.

>>51915491
This

Okay guys, I got a fucking adventure, maybe even a campaign hammered out in my head. I fucking love it, and I hope my player (playtest first!) likes it too. If they do I want to do a proper write up for other people to use.

How do you GURPS modules? Do I need to do it up like Mirror of The Fire Demon? Is there some other set up?

>>51915843
Do you want it published by SJGames, or is it going to be a free thing?

>>51915875
>Do you want it published by SJGames, or is it going to be a free thing?

Holy fuck I don't even dream of it being published by SJG. It'd be cool if it was, but I don't think I can hack it.

So a free thing, but I want it nice so it's accessible. Cause face it, we don't have enough modules.

>>51916000
Checked.
If you want to make a free module, then you can do something similar to Mirror of The Fire Demon. Just make sure you don't copy the formatting, or SJGames might have to shut it down. As long as you organize things in a logical manner (e.g. start to finish) and make statblocks like DF Monsters, it should be fine. When you get a rough draft ready, upload it here so we can critique.

>>51916025
gotcha man

Sup. I've decided to run new campaign with my players, about party of explorers and on planning stage I've realised I will end up with having to roll for all the NPCs in their expedition, which will mean I will be rolling for 20+ different characters.
Is there some simplified way to deal with this or do I really have to roll for everyone?

>>51916088
You could just roll the average for the group (e.g. 10 for Will rolls), or have the highest skilled member roll with +1 for each person that knows the skill, and -1 for each person in the group that the roll affects. You could also just not roll and assume they rolled a 10 or 11, compare to skill, and judge who passed/failed on that. I'm sure there are more ways, but those are a few ideas.

>>51916133
Thing is, I've got a new guy in a group, he's a rule lawyer and I know he won't allow doing stuff that's not in the book. We migrated to Basic from Lite lately, so I'm still getting used to all of it and the options it gives, but can't recall anything for mass combat.

>>51916385
Tell him he can go fuck himself.

All of those rules are already in GURPS in one form or another. Action 2 for the first two, the last one is from a pyramid article titled something like "Turned Up To 11".

>>51916385
Tell him to fuck off, you're the GM. GURPS is a system that NEEDS a strong GM hand, willing to change rules, streamline things, or make exceptions, in order to run well. GURPS is a toolkit, not an "out of the box" system. It's what makes it so good and easily adaptable.

So Gadget based Syntactic Magic, here. I'm still building the system. Is it legit to put "Preparation Required" or "Takes Extra Time" on the Magery Advantage? RPM doesn't seem to, and that requires time to gather and cast.

>>51916557
Default Magery is basically a combination of a 5 point unusual background and a magic-specific talent taken in levels, so by default it would be a little weird to use those limitations. However, I could see justification for those if it's based on gadgets and not actually inherent to the character in any way.

>>51916744
>Default Magery is basically a combination of a 5 point unusual background and a magic-specific talent taken in levels, so by default it would be a little weird to use those limitations. However, I could see justification for those if it's based on gadgets and not actually inherent to the character in any way.

It's inherent, but you can't do shit if you don't got the materials. So Magery 0 is still 5 points.

But no 'gadgets' no spells, period. (unless you're pointing an enchanted item)

>>51916133
Yeah as he said, record an average skill level for the majority of your NPCs, then note down exceptional cases. Use a gm control sheet, and it shouldn't be too unweildy

>>51916385
>I've got a new guy in a group, he's a rule lawyer and I know he won't allow doing stuff that's not in the book.
If he's not the GM, he needs to fuck off with that

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>>51903552
Go press the other button.

>>51903227
It affects the zeroing of the weapon. At longer ranges (100meters+), a fixed bayonet can throw off the point of impact significantly compared to without the bayonet, and therefore you would have to re-zero your sights if you wanted fully accurate fire.

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Here's my Lexicon for "Fairwell and Welcome."

It is intended to be slightly nonsensical in the alternate meanings, I'm going for a dream-like feel.

Thoughts?

How did you get into GURPS?

>>51919257
GM threw book at me.

>>51919257

I don't remember? I know I got into it myself, I think I found a book in Barnes and Noble?

>>51919458

No, I found it in Forbidden Planet

>>51919257
One of the first campaigns I played in was a Prime Directive game.

Game was pretty fun except for the stupidly broken "stun" phaser setting that the GM refused to fix.

>>51919257
Was a DND nerd
Went to friends place
Saw they were playing another RPG
Blew my mind to see another RPG
Blew my mind to see classless point buy
Blew my mind to see gurps

Haven't looked back since

>>51919431

Critical hit.

>>51919257
Natural talent and inherent awesomeness.

>>51919257
>Really tired of how restrictive D&D was, how many loops you had to jump through to just play what you wanted, and how creating new monsters was nothing like creating PCs and was essentially done wholecloth (height of 3.5's reign).
>Made regular visits to local Half-Price Books, specifically the Gaming aisle.
>Got really into every system under the sun.
>Eventually find GURPS 3e
>Liked it but didn't quite "get it"; looked online for more info
>Found 4e and fell in love with it.

>>51919257
I wanted a system that actually let me do things as a martial. GURPS delivers that in spades. No more feat taxes.

>>51919206

No one?

>>51921623
The fuck is it?

>>51921671
Looks like distilled autism.

>>51922044
>Looks like distilled autism.

We're on 4chan, everything is distilled autism. Try again, faggot

>>51921671

Lexicon for syntactic magic. Going for a dream like feel.

>>51919206
Can you give some examples of this lexicon in use? What would be some common combinations?

>>51924325
>Can you give some examples of this lexicon in use? What would be some common combinations?

No Prob.

So as I said, dream like qualities. The world the characters find themselves in are twisted, impressionistic or dali-esq at best, surealisim at worst. It is their home town, but viewed through a strange lens. It's got a strong horror flavor to it which is why I'm not including healing or creation.

Buildings twist side ways, fountains flow backwards, pathways are turned aside. The shadows grab them and try to hold them in place. That's why there are three words associated with travelling.

Knowledge+Direction will likely be common. Linking I hope will be used for various effects--it is one of the 'enchantment' words, along with storage (sorry about that spelling error).

Passage and warding, location and warding, will become more important as the game progresses, as the world twists more and they need to nail it into place by force.

Separation Item item to escape bindings.

Strengthen Self(Item) Movement+Link+Swiftness (Base cost: 5)

Destroy Light+Link+Inversion (8) to attack the darkness

This it very much a "Scavenge to prepare so you can escape" sort of magic system. Something like one off enchantments from Thaumathurgy p 175 aren't out of the question.

I'd like to get started with GURPS. I've got something along the lines of Crimson Skies in mind, though some more fantasy elements (floating islands, etc- not totally sold on magic yet).

How do I get started? It looks like paring down the rules to a small set is going to be the most time consuming part.

>>51925252
>It looks like paring down the rules to a small set is going to be the most time consuming part.
I've always thought that this 'chiseling out the system from the marble block' picture people paint when they recommend the system does more harm that good. Yeah, you are only ever using a subset of the system, but I think the game you want to run will organically build itself while you're reading through the system. People start out with the basic set for a reason, it already has most of the rules you will ever use, and you will read through it because you need it to play and to run, and you will be looking through the pages and come across rules you will never want to use and rules that you couldn't imagine your game not having. It's not like, for my game, I had to tell myself 'I will not be needing the rules for high-speed collisions this time', or 'do I want to use the bleeding rules?', or anything like that. I was reading and I knew what I wanted and what I didn't want. I had a lot of fun planning my game, I just hope everyone else has that smae fun too.

>>51925377
What he said.

There are really very few cases where you have to actively pick and choose and make a list. Most of those are for exceptions ("Oh! Hell yea! Old West with Laser Pistols!") Picking a genre and then double checking that the characters fit in your vision of it are usually enough. The rest is usually just double checking the rules you'll obviously need ("Little Dicky has a shotgun. I better check how those work." or "Lucretia is a poisoner and telekinetic. I better read those again too. And I have to remind her she can't have a triceratops pet.") or knowing some of the big design switches (basic combat vs. tacticool combat for example).

>>51926880
Speaking of choosing rules, whats a better strategy for controlling my player's character creation? Picking a few books that fit and limit them there, or let them use any book but letting them know the type of character and the feel of the game and then vetting them?

I feel like limiting the available books is easier on me as a GM, but letting players look through books on their own might lead them to create better characters or use something I overlooked. How do you guys do it?

>>51927041
>or let them use any book but letting them know the type of character and the feel of the game and then vetting them?
This, always. If you do this well enough, you could have a game without a limit on starting costs, and have it be balanced.

>>51927041
There are way too many options to have giving most players and especially new players access to every book a practical choice. The basic set is quite broad enough in scope as-is. Stick to a few mainline expansions (Powers and a -Tech book mostly) for now.

>>51927041
Session 0, build together.

>>51927041
I'll always tell you to hand out few individual books, but I think it's more of a practical issue. The more books you have to learn rules from, the easier it is for some rules to slip your mind. Vetting rules is easy, really. It's the ones you allow you have to look out for. Typically, books don't interact among themselves (except within the same line), but when every single one of your players needs picking up misc rules from 20 different books, it will get messy for you. I only ever play with my relevant PDFs on in the background, having to run and see those PDFs go into the 5s or maybe even 10s, is already making me nervous. For your own sanity I'd only add books you're already very acquainted with, and those that are necessary for your campaign's genre or playstyle, and this can already be too much.

>>51927041
Always session zero with your group.
It's a great habit to get into, builds scope and capability all at one go. You learn wheat they want from the game, and they learn what you want, AND THEY LEARN WHAT EACH OTHER WANT.
It is so frigging critical that they see "oh Dave wants to run face. Do I want to as well? Maybe we should have a tinkerer this time around."
And having everything on the table before play really allows for folks to re-spec what doesn't work WITHOUT GUILT. (The amount of times I've had a disruptive player who would have changed, given an out, but didn't is tooooooo much)

>>51919257
When I was about 14 or 15 I found GURPS Atomic Horror at my flgs. I didn't know about non-d&d rpgs, but that cover set my imagination ablaze. I saved up and bought it, and then bought the basic set. I've been a gurps fag ever since.

>>51919726
Melbourne?

>>51928240
>GURPS Atomic Horror
Now THIS is podracing

My intro game was generic future space adventure with X-Men. I built not!Cyclops with uncontrollable explosive burning corrosion beams.

>>51925377
I guess I don't get it, maybe. "Start with the basic set", sure. But even then there's a pile of rules, and especially of advantages/disadvantages/skills, to strip out or disallow. Which in turn makes things confusing on the players without writing up a list of everything we ARE using.

>>51928401
It's easier than you think.
Choose the setting you want to run
>Weird west; America being frontiers, but Indian gods fight back
This sets the tone or character limits
>tl5 150/-50, cinematic stuff allowed with gm permission, power investiture allows spells from the gods, no other powers
And now at your sessions zero, most questions are simply answered by those limits!
>Can I be Godzilla? No
>Can I be a future cyborg?No
>Can I be a gunslinging pistolero? Yes

>>51897953

How do I add it to the MEGA collection? Should I simply upload the PDF here?

>>51928401
Why would you list every rule you ARE using? With a single statement you've already 'switched off' a whole bunch of rules: 'realistic rules only', 'no supernatural advantages', 'this game is cinematic', 'only the basic set is allowed', etc. These rules are categorized for your convenience, all that's left is the exceptions. I know I'm not using the Bleeding rules even if my game is realistic, for example. And you won't find yourself needing to make many exceptions, chances are that if a rule is made for a genre or tone that you're playing, you're gonna find yourself using it eventually.

A friend of mine wants to run GURPS.

I don't know the rules at all.
Can someone explain the basic mechanics of GURPS?

>>51928538
http://www.fudgerpg.com/fudge.html

Use this, better than GURPS in everything.

>>51928569
Well said friend has decided the system, it's not really my choice.

Also the link isn't working for me.

4e vehicle designer when?

My players keep nagging me about Age of Sail campaign, which I keep declining, always on the same basis - it would mean ship-to-ship combat.
And that would mean getting stats for those ships.

Are there ANYWHERE templates for ships of given type, or some crash course of making those without spending few hours on single ship that will get boarded/sunk within single combat and the forgotten?

>>51928538
No seriously people, some help would be neat here. I don't even know what book to download from the MEGA archive. There's no "Core" book, so I figured it'd be "Basic" but the two books there are CAMPAIGNS and CHARACTERS, and BOTH OF THOSE, and I don't know what to get.

>>51928538
>>51928791
Basic Set is core book, Characters is for players, Campaigns is mostly for GM, but you may want to read expanded combat rules. Later.
For now, pick up GURPS Lite.

tl;dr: roll 3d6, if result is less than skill (or other target number) you succeeded. That's the bare minimum you need to know.
Character creation can feel intimidating, but game itself is pretty simple.

>>51928791
You get both. Characters is character creation rules, Campaigns is gameplay. It's split because the skills/advantages/disadvantages are long.

>>51928791
Ignore the fudge troll. He's just made his general is empty.

Seriously though, sometimes hours go by with nobody looking in here. Have some patience.

To your question. Get Lite. Characters is for characters, Campaigns is for GMs (sort of... it has details on rules and shit like healing and recover and advanced combat). Lite is for a 30-something summary of Characters and Campaigns. Use it to get the basics and then, maybe, look up more details in one of the two Basic books because 30-something pages can't be a complete reference for 500+ pages.

If your friend isn't going to session 0 you and help with character building you're going to have a bad time. It'll be like sitting down to play Settlers of Catan but nobody will tell you what's going on. You can do it but it will take a long time and require patience.

>>51928569
>>51928668

Nice job coming into a GURPS thread telling people to not play GURPS. Do you also go into movie theatres to tell people that the movie they're watching sucks?

>>51928893
>made
*mad

>>51928874
>>51928862
>>51928893

Thanks a bunch guys.

>If your friend isn't going to session 0 you and help with character building you're going to have a bad time. It'll be like sitting down to play Settlers of Catan but nobody will tell you what's going on. You can do it but it will take a long time and require patience.

I didn't want to show up completely ignorant is the thing.

>>51928897
Sometimes. Is for the Greater Good.
The Greater Good.

>>51929035
In that case I applaud you. Being prepared is always an awesome choice.

Once you get some details or know enough to ask specific questions feel free to come back here for answers or build advice.

>>51919257

Essentially, I found a system where your character could target Hit Locations WITHOUT being "high-level" or scoring a Critical Hit.

>>51919257
Because I've started visiting /tg/ and I've heard before about the game (but just the title and what it stands for), so I've checked it out. Since it's classless and levelless I was instantly hooked.

The hard part was convincing my players

Are there any rules for air combat that are good enough to form the core of a campaign's content? "Just roll Piloting to get on target and Gunner to shoot, nothing else" is a little light for me.

>>51929548
Spaships 4 iirc have some.

>>51928685
>My players keep nagging me about Age of Sail campaign, which I keep declining, always on the same basis - it would mean ship-to-ship combat.
>And that would mean getting stats for those ships.
>Are there ANYWHERE templates for ships of given type, or some crash course of making those without spending few hours on single ship that will get boarded/sunk within single combat and the forgotten?

*she uses google-fu* *it's super effective!*

GURPS Fantasy, though it looks like it might not be as high a standard as the usual stuff SJG puts out. Not Ultra tech bad, but the weights might be off.

A big thing with ship to ship combat is hit locations, though, you're going to have to manage that shit on your own. Does it hit the crew? Reduce damage if too many people get hit. Does it manage to hole them below the water line? Sails?

>>51928685
Spaceships Vol. 1 and 7, plus Pyramid #3/34 for the Alternate Spaceships article. Between those three sources, you have enough to make a basic spaceship, complete with customization and hit locations.

>>51929593
Seems very beholden to Spaceships' base system, and I'm not sure I'm a fan. Have any of you guys used it before?

>>51919257
When it was only a meme on /tg/, I thought "It can't be worse than FATAL"

>>51929838
I've already read those from Fantasy and they are... well, "inadequate" would be probably the best term.
Then again, I'm sailing ever since I was born, to a lot of sailing games and mechanics for those fall flat for me, so it might be just my bias.

>>51930016
Um... Age of Sail?
Wooden ships? Iron men?

>>51930457
>Wooden ships? Iron men?
Same method applies to making seaships as sail ships. Just different hit locations. Look it up yo. Quite ingenious

>>51930457
The system is pretty dang modular. It's originally meant for spaceships, obviously, but between Vol 7 and that article, it can make mechs, tanks, Tyranid motherships, magitech fortresses/floating islands, and yes Age of Sail ocean-bound ships. As long as it's SOME sort of vehicle and is going to be SM+4 or larger, Spaceships has got it.

>>51930754
It's almost as if the system is generic, and universal

>>51903227
Barrel harmonics yo, the weight doesn't help either.

>>51903227

I -think- there was also something about the bayonet being in the way of the exhaust gasses and altering the accuracy of the fired projectile.

So anons, how do you feel about talents? Are they a point crutch or a way to tie a character's theme together? Do you allow talents with combat skills in them? How about custom talents? How many skills in a custom talent ought to be allowed to be combat skills?

I'm having a hard time really wrapping my head around how to keep talents balanced and not cheesey.

>>51932538
They're honestly a necessity, if you want a character with any level of versatility/skill, that doesn't have a massively inflated point cost. Even the devs basically admitted that in later materials, and greatly encouraged them to be used more often and more versatile than in core.

>>51932538
Talents are great for getting people to not be one-trick ponies. If all you want is Stealth, then at 4/level it's cheaper to up that skill, but once you start taking Craftiness or whatever, the player has a reason to look at other skills. The character will still have a focus, but they'll have some breadth. For new players, I've seen an issue with wanting to dump everything into one skill at 24 or so and Talents give enough direction to avoid that.

I'm suspicious of custom Talents but will give them a shot. Combat skills are okay as long as the Talent is something more thematic that "killing bitches." Cheese is...meh. I like running challenging games and assume the PCs are going to be pretty dang optimized anyway.

>>51932592
>>51932538
I've encouraged their use in my current Firefly game; hard to enforce small progression rewards and still have versatile competency. The built in social boost helps too. I pushed for costing talents on my players as well, but only got an artificer between them all.

Hopefully Sinistar notices he didn't spend 50 points and buys up some social talents...

>>51932538
You might check out GURPS Power-Ups 3: Talents if you want to see more "under the hood" stuff and worked examples for talents.

>>51916385
A quick hack is to steal the burst fire rules and apply them to groups of people.

Groups of NPCs who are doing plot relevant but non contested things will generally succeed by Taking Extra Time (Base skill 10 + 4 vs 14 = They Get It Done, but it takes longer and is less effective). No muss, no fuss - you ask them to do it, it gets done, but it simply takes so long that it'll always be slightly inconvenient.

"Go build this pallisade!"
"Sure thing, where do you want it?"

Groups of NPCs who are doing plot relevant things roll vs [Highest Member Skill For Thing] + 1 per 3 helpers - [Problems With Thing]. One "Success" per MoS 3. Translate success into how well things were accomplished. When fighting, each success is 5% of enemy force defeated.

"I order my 12 scavengers to go loot the battlefield... their ScavLeader has Skill 12, +3 from aid from the helpers - roll vs 15. I get 9, so they locate 3 choice pieces this time."

"Attack! We've beaten 15% of the enemy force, massive casualties! They're reeling!" etc.

I use that a lot. It's a dirty, filthy hack, but it makes sense and ties into the mechanics that already exist. +1 per 3 helpers is because of group sizes in my normal games (ordering around squads of 12 people is +4) and to keep numbers managable. You can change it to +1 per helper with relevant skills which feels more like rewarding groups of specialists working together.

My usual penalties applied to that just in increment blocks of -4.

+4 "Sure Boss, we'll take the empty hill tomorrow"
+0 "Sure Boss, we'll cross the river then take the fort"
-4"Sure Boss, we'll cross the river full of alligators then take the fort"
-8 "Sure Boss, we'll cross the river full of alligators, march up over the pallisade defenses, then take the fort"
-12 "Sure Boss, we'll cross the river full of hell alligators to storm the demon pallisades while taking fire from the soul cannons, then hold the castle versus the incoming dragons"
-16 "No Boss. Not happening"

>>51932538
I'm only now using them after years of not, and I still feel like they're a pure point crutch. Or almost-pure.

>>51933009
They are to a degree, but an absolutely necessary one. Think about how expensive it would be, for something like say, an IQ 10 mercenary to have the Armoury skills necessary to take care of his equipment well in the field, plus the other tangential IQ based stuff he might have, like cooking, tactics, accounting or some other math skill to help manage his funds, etc. It would be obscenely expensive for him to buy those up individually instead of having a talent.

>>51929593
>>51930079
On further reading: I think the rules might work, with adaptation. The trouble is building the planes themselves. Spaceships has a lot of nice ideas, but logical portrayal of guns and armor is not among them (not to mention the astounding lack of a propeller driven engine). I doubt statting them up as regular vehicles (out of whole cloth, basically) would help, but maybe that's necessary?

>>51932845
This is basically how I do large groups of NPC's, too. Nice job explaining it.

tl;dr use average skill levels with Rapid Fire rules, I also let notable "leaders" (both PC and NPC) and such roll Leadership/Strategy/Tactics/whatever as a complimentary skill when applicable.

>>51907874
>an armor that required a painful bonding procedure to be worn

Sounds like the Lorica Niger from the "Martian Tech" article in Pyramid 3/24.

>>51934349
Man I was gonna use that in Stargate 1888. That and psiswords

So, I'm playing in a Transhuman Space game and was thinking about making an SAI. Is this a terrible idea? I was considering either being the party face or a sort of Jack of all trades thing. Our party is anot Interpol group, that I suspect is loosely based on Section 9

>>51935528
Remind me, as a SAI, are you capable of upload into remote bodies? Or at least copy to shells? If so, then jack of all trades. Double down with plugins for skill uploaders and you can do near anything they hand you that has a downloadable manual. Including BFGs

>>51935760
Yes, you can upload in to bodies and make copies of yourself. The jack of all trades option does seem very appealing with the ability to plug in more skills and such. Is there any interesting she'll I should get? Because I was thinking about just starting with a basic cyberdoll body.

>>51935943
Definitely skill plugs.
Modular abilities:chipslots (powers 62/B71)
Super fucking useful. As into that a payload space with a built in target computer with a HUD plugin, and you can download 99% of all smart guns and fire them with required skill.

What's people's opinions on adapting a Traveller-style life path system into GURPS, using templates?

>>51937034
Very cool. I've thought about doing this many times for a burning wheel style fantasy lifepath system.

>>51937216
>>51937034
I fully support your creation of this lifepath generator.
I will be contributing emotional support and well wishes. Possibly user testing.

>>51937034
Action 4 could work as a springboard. I've been tempted to give it a shot myself, but I'm already up to my neck in my existing campaign, another campaign in the works, and real life bullshit.

>>51937034
That was my least favorite part of traveler, but with more choices added into it it could be good.

>>51937503
>more choices
That seems to be against the spirit of traveller. But not GURPS!

>>51937216
>>51937393
>>51937404
>>51937503

Since I'd be setting it up for an upcoming campaign, my sample path pieces would likely be more campaign-specific, but I'll see if I can get something hashed together over the next few weeks. Running a separate campaign on top of 2.5 jobs, so I'm unfortunately pressed for time.

>>51938018
Well it could be used as a base line for others to work off as well.

>>51936553
Why chipslots? I can just get computer mind and be able to download all the skills I want from databases (The GM said I would have access to an interpol database of skills, which is nice).

>>51938801
Unless your GM is running it differently/in 3e, you still need to dedicate points towards the ability to download skillsets; this is represented as chip slots IIRC.

>>51940551
It says in Changing Times that you can just DL it straight from the net, so, maybe they updated it in 4e?

>>51940646

Chipslots represent how much room you have for skils.

>>51940775
You have the same room for skills with computerized mind.

>>51904082
I'm interested in joining. Went ahead and sent a PM (Git).

The setting definitely seems interesting and I've been dying to actually play in a game rather than run one for years.

>>51904082
>https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/70300/gurps-interregnum


Looks good. I'd strongly suggest, rather then saying that illiteracy is the norm and you must pay 3 points for Literacy/Native that you state that lower levels of literacy are a very common disadvantage/quirk. This keeps people from needing to fuck around with a character sheet to note the unusual cost for literacy.

>>51940801
Modular Abilities on page 40 of Changing Times. You don't get anything for free; it's admittedly not called "chipslots," but the function is similar if not the same and you need to pay for the ability to swap out skill investments.

Wait, do you mean "computerized mind" like Digital Mind [5] or a template that already includes Modular Abilities? I think that might be the source of confusion.

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>>51941362
Oh, yes, I'm paying for it, but I'm just saying that you don't need chips. It all comes from a database. Pic related.

Yeah, I'm not getting the advantage for free, if that's what you were thinking.

>>51941438
Wow I feel stupid; I totally forgot that entry existed, and it's *right* above chip slots too.

Sorry Anon.

>>51941488
No problem; either way, I did take your advice and go jack of all trades. I'm just not sure what skills I should actually purchase, and what ones I should leave to downloading. Any suggestions? (I already have all the memetic skills, since I get great bonuses to those)

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Threadbump.

>>51932845
Not him, but stealing this

For the "Rapid Reload" variation of the Limited Use limitation, do you actually need to go out and find ammo that can be used for your attack? If you do, how would you stat an attack that has unlimited uses, but still requires reloading?

>>51945772
It would be just Nuisance Effect, -5%, I think.

What is the fastest possible time of reload for a TL4 musket? I know different elements of equipment can shorten the time, but what about skills or maybe some advantages?

>>51945913
IIRC, Gun-Fu has fast reload perk that severely reduces reloading time.

>>51945772
Yeah that's the implication. For ammo-less reloading, maybe use Takes Recharge at the five-second level? You could use Limited Use's rule that you get RoF in shots before you have to recharge, I'd say for +0%.

>>51897446
What's the most convincing argument you could give your PCs to switch from 5e to GURPS?

>>51945985
If they are crunch-heavy
>Hey, this game has better rules and more flexible for your inventive stuff!
If they are just average Joes
>Hey, this game is even more simple than d20, check this shit out!

Just remember to start with Lite version. It's very important to portray GURPS as something 32 pages long, rather than 600+ pages when convincing D&D crowd. Trust me, did this few times. Works like a charm with Lite, never works with Basic.

>>51945985
Guessing you mean dnd 5th
Swords can keep up with magic in combat, mana instead of spell slots, more weapon options that are actually viable choices, point buy, armor doesn't reduce mobility if you are strong enough, and no alignment system.

>>51946018
>>51946048
See I already tried this. Ran a campaign and my PCs all complained about this
>Why do we have to roll underneath our skills thats unintuitive
>This point system is dumb and unintuitive
>Gurps is good for things that aren't fantasy but this is a fantasy setting so just switch to 5e
>Gurps is inconsistent (they keep looking rules on their own and getting Lite rules confused with non-Lite rules)

I'm not some autist who is going to force his players to use a system that they don't like, but I infinitely prefer GURPS over 5e. I just struggle articulating why.

>>51945985
It depends on the player in question; the best approach is one tailored to them specifically. Fighter bored of combat? Maneuvers, techniques, HIT LOCATIONS. Someone thinks meatpoints are stupid? HP and damage stay in the human-level range with no bloat. Player's tired of D&D fantasy? GURPS can do something weird (or just different). Edgy assassin wants more brutal fighting? Crippled locations, bleeding, the works. Timmy is sad that to make his character of choice requires jumping through a bunch of hoops and invalidate his concept? Classless point-buy.

>>51946111
>Rool under is unintuitive
You just can't help some people Anon.

That being said, did you use Dungeon Fantasy? It's the perfect mix of new mechanics/familiar style that makes the transition a lot easier. Templates and streamlined rules in one location are also SUPER helpful.

>>51946111
Ok, let's see
>Roll under skill
I hardly understand how this is unintuitive, when D&D is infamous for THAC0, but that was probably before your players were even born.
Either way, it's very simple to visualise. Tell them to imagine two bars. A red one and green one. The red is difficulty, the green is skill. The red one is 20 units long (that's the best number for them) and the blue one is equal to the skill. So to NOT fail a roll, they need to fit it within the green bar.
Thus, they roll under their skill.
It's piss easy and very intuitive, I don't understand why they don't get it, but that's the best way to visualise it. Works even better with some props at hand.
>This point system is dumb and unintuitive
And classes are restrictive, artificial and force them to play a pre-defined character with almost no flexibility. They can't even use some obvious skills and item types, just because they are class X
>Gurps is good for things that aren't fantasy but this is a fantasy setting so just switch to 5e
GURPS is good for anything and in fact it best works for Low-Tech, because there are no machine guns to use.
The magic system allows them to access spells they like, want and the way how they like to use them, not some random bullshit assigned to levels, or limited to slots they would have to juggle
Weapon choice does make a difference, so they can finally get that fun bonus to trashing X just by picking weapon type Y, instead of looking for special enchanted item. Bonus points for the fact those two can be combined
In short - it's easier to convince crunch players due to all the options there are in the game.
>they keep looking rules on their own and getting Lite rules confused with non-Lite
Then tell them to literally stop reading up rules you (plural) are not using in your (plural) games. If you play Lite, then Lite is all they need. Literally. I know a group that is using nothing else but Lite and asks in those threads from time to time for specific details

>>51946111
The easiest solution is tell them that you want to run gurps, if one of them wants to run 5th they can but you do not want to run it.
Someone will step up to dm or they will give gurps a try either way you do not need to run 5the.

>>51946179
>>51946162
yeah i know. theyre fucking retarded but i really don't think it can be helped.
theyre all newbs to this that only asked me to DM for them because they listened to TheAdventureZone play it and THEY use 5e so why can't WE use 5e.
I guess I'm just ranting here more than anything because I've already come to terms with the fact that I can't sway them.

>>51946261
This is probably going to sound a lot more FUCKING NORMIES REEEE than I'm intending, but whatever.

I love that stuff like Adventure Zone are introducing more people to the hobby, but holy shit it brings in the wrong people. People listen to a podcast, think "wow that sounds fun, I wanna do that," but four out of five times they don't put in the effort or really care that much; they want to just show up and have fun. While I can't fault someone for that, TTRPGs are not the medium for immediate pick-up-and-play fun. Someone gets into vidya from Lets Plays? Fine, plop them down, hand them a controller, and let them have fun (or not, if they end up not liking it). TTRPGs require a huge investment of time and effort on both sides of the GM screen that you don't see in a lot of podcasts. On top of that, they're social games, so if you decide halfway through an adventure that it's not fun or that the group isn't what you want or whatever, you flaking screws other people over.

>>51946261
Wait, wait, wait.
That's actually important bit.

So they want to play 5e, but are completely green and new?
This is fucking fantastic information, because it means you can take them on a ride! The point is - don't try to sell them GURPS right away, but tell them you are going to try few different system and find what suits you best.
Thus you will pick utter shit games, FATAL included, and in the end, give them GURPS again.

They will fucking love it.
Long, complex, but it also works. I've roused my group like this to give generic games a shot, after I've dragged them through different "thematic" games, showing them how bad this shit can be if we plan to play one-shots each time with some shitty system and learning new rules and shit.

New players are the easiest to convince, one way or another, to get them into playing the game you want to run.

Combine >>51946396 with >>51946403 and you are set.

>>51946396
I agree. I love AdventureZone and really respect all of the effort Griffin and the boys put into it, but all of my pals who decided to try out DnD after listening to the podcast are flakey as fuck (show up several hours late almost every session) have a meme backstory, roleplay as themselves, or don't fucking roleplay whatsoever or have motivations that are all over the place.
It's frustrating that as a DM I spend several months building and writing the story to my session only to have them come in and shit all over it or not take it seriously.

>>51946443
I think the issue is that after listening to these podcasts, a lot of people don't want to play a game as much as sit in on a live session. They hear the McEllroys making great characters, put effort into roleplaying them, and come up with tons of awesome stuff, and they want to join in without realizing now *they* need to make great characters, *they* need to put effort into roleplaying them, and *they* need to be the ones that come up with tons of awesome stuff.

>>51946111
>thats unintuitive
Which is why they roll 2d6 to see how far they move every turn right? D&D movement is pretty unintuitive to someone who only knows how to play Monopoly.

And the point system is unintuitive. Gradual improvement is a completely ridiculous thing. I, myself, just leveled up the other day and am still marveling at the completely new and unstudied ability I spontaneously gained.

>good for things
Because fantasy is such a deep and meaningful genre that can only be expressed by D&D. That is why Iron Crown Enterprises couldn't do Lord of the Rings. I'm sure only D&D is able to support their touching and insightful character portrayals.

>Gurps is inconsistent
They keep looking up 5e rules in the D&D Basic Rules (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/PlayerBasicRulesV03.pdf) and bitching about things.
It basically sounds like a bunch of lazy players wants to whine and not do anything they already aren't familiar with. Why play Hearts when you already know how to play Spades?

If you're doing all the work you should get to choose the tools you use to work with. If they don't like it invite them to do the work instead and you'll just play. Or they might just be such stellar actors that their interpersonal dramas can shine through no matter what color the set was painted.

I feel like a an idiot, but I picked up some dungeon fantasy stuff thinking it would be easy to jump into. I can't understand the damn templates. How do I read these things?

>>51947668
B258 will help you understand the theory behind templates. I've never actually read them outside of GCS, though, because they're retina-searing.

>>51945985
>What's the most convincing argument you could give your PCs to switch from 5e to GURPS?

Forgive me, I'm really not up on D&D, but back in the 3.5 days I used prestige classes.

Imagine getting to play a presteige class as a starter class. You'll start weak, just like in any other class, but you'll have the flavor pretty much right off.

Wanna duel weild flaming scimitars? Not a problem.

Magical Thief? Fuck yeah, let's open doors with magic and do some insubstantial shadow walking.

Demon summoner/binder? Hell yeah. You want extra powers with that?

>>51947684
Exactly! My eyes glossed over on the first couple and started bleeding after a few more!

I'll take a look, thanks!

>>51947668
DF doesn't work on its own; you still need the Basic Set.

As for the templates, they're basically half-made characters you get to put the finishing touches on. Attributes and secondary characteristics are straightforward; copy down the values/points invested and move on.

Advantages are often broken into chunks, with the first group being what you *have* to take because they're a core part of the template's theme and identity; every Knight is meant to be a brutal fighter as well as an competent leader of men, so all Knights have to have Born War Leader 2, Combat Reflexes, and High Pain Threshold. Anything beyond that is stuff you have a choice on; the Knight has 60 points he can put into those advantages, so here's your chance to start customizing your character -- a warlord wants more Born War Leader, a monster slayer wants more ST, etc.

Disadvantages are also broken into chunks, but IIRC you never have to take any specific advantage. In general, the groups are "very appropriate for this type of character" and "pretty appropriate for this type of character."

The Primary/Secondary/Background Skills division is just there to make it easier for us; basically, expect to your primary skills to be important or take center stage quite often, your secondary skills maybe twice a session to once every other session, and your background skills maybe once in a blue moon (assuming a solid party lineup; a Knight may be making use of Observation constantly if you lack a Scout/Thief, and Stealth is mostly there so you don't blow things for the more subtle party members). There's no real difference between the skill categories.

Maybe go through template-based chargen once to see how it works; if you have any questions, ask them here!

>>51947868
I'll give a shot when I get back to my pdfs. With some whiskey maybe... thanks!

>>51947902
Alcohol does some magical things with GURPS. I was into my fourth whiskey and coke when I finished my automated 3e battlesuit designer spreadsheet.

>>51897970
What books are you using?

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>>51948066
Dungeon Fantasy as a base; no Clerics, Holy Warriors, Druids, or Wizards, and Bard get more bard powers instead of spells to represent being exceptionally talky. PCs have a Samurai lens which includes Social Regard (Feared), Legal Immunity, Clan Rank 0, a few points in skills, and an extremely hazardous Duty to their clan I can use to move the plot along if need be. Each clan has a number of Styles they teach to let people get powerups outside of their template; since DF doesn't do techniques, I gave each style the skills required, five perks, and five powerups. Each clan is written up using DF: Guilds.

The cowboy/western part is mostly written whole-cloth as I had to make the stats up for the guns; no amount of houseruling would make TL5 firearms in-line with DF's assumed values.

If I was doing everything over again, I'd use the skill set approach from Action 4 instead. DF's templates were a very good starting point, but they're not perfect even with my changes.

>>51948492
Thanks for that! Been wanting to try something like this for a while.

>>51947936
Pseudo, that you?

>>51932845
Different anon, but how do you account casualities to this?

I've run into an issue with Spaceships. I'm intending to apply it to build customized fighter planes, Crimson Skies style... But there's no propeller driven version, only a jet engine.

What would likely be reasonable stats on a prop engine? I've done some searching on the SJG forums but I'm not totally satisfied. Aiming for very low TL7 with dustings of magitek TL8.

>>51950174
Weren't there templates for WW2 planes?

>>51950345
There are for Vehicles, but I don't believe there's any for Spaceships. I've looked in every relevant book I can find.

>>51950387
Well, if it's a spaceship, it's not gonna run on propeller, that's for sure

>>51950424
There's also rules for Spaceships to use jet engines, *sails*, and nautical propellers. Props are about the only engine type not covered.

That said, I'm gonna just ballpark it at 0.3G compared to the 0.2G of aether screws and the 0.5G of jet engines; that's the main three I'm using, and it's nice and round numbers.

>>51950468
Makes sense; propellers are just airscrews, so they should be pretty similar to aetherscrews (but a bit better because I think aetherscrews are TL3^?).

>>51952462
Surprisingly, they're just TL^. That said, somewhere between 0.3 and 0.4 is where prop/turboprop engines lie in comparison to examples elsewhere. Seems like a good enough number for me.

As a more general question, does magic!Crimson Skies actually sound like a fun concept?

>>51953241
Sounds good. I'm a sucker for any game where I can get a flying boat and go around having adventures in it.

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>>51897446
Are there any rules for wielding a melee weapon in your mouth, say if you were a dog and wanted to use a melee weapon or if you wanted to tri wield melee weapons.

Destroy the universe with one spell.

>>51955544

Extra arm
Ham handed
can't use mouth while in use
Close or no range

>>51955544
iirc Space recommended to use Ham-Fisted for those who use their mouth to do things.

>>51955550
No, the MUNCHKIN is safely stowed away for another time.

>>51956767
No room in the build for Jumper. You gotta stay and savor it. You gotta carry that weight.

Also, it doesn't work on anything with DR 1 (Cosmic).

I'm interested in making a modern fantasy setting where, basically, it is our world (TL 8 Earth, circa 2016 C.E.) but Ritual Path Magic is a public fact of life. Everyone knows it exists, some people learn it and cast spells, it is a socio-political issue with laws governing it, etc.

Any advice on worldbuilding? Neat plot hooks or setting elements I should include? Any cool details about this kind of world I should mention?

>>51958985
Good luck? Having magic as flexible and as powerful as RPM around is going to do a heavy number on your setting unless it's a very recent addition.

>>51958985
How common are magic users? Is it like "Elementary schools have Thaumatology classes" or "Anyone with Magery gets sent to secret government facilities to be experimented on"? That's question is going to have the biggest influence on the setting, so decide on that before you write anything else.

>>51958985
1) Since when magic is around?
2) Since when it's public?
3) Does the history otherwise remain unchanged?

>>51959104
Not necessarily. RAW, RPM has issues with reliability and duration, making it very ill-suited to its use in everyday magical infrastructure. Obviously the existence of magic will still have a sizable impact, but I don't think it will be quite so "rewrite society from the ground up"-level of impactful.

>>51963301

At the same time, that opens up magical industry for things like "renewing the Transatlantic Crossroads spellwork".

So while it's not great for permanence - RL society isn't either.

>>51963301
>but I don't think it will be quite so "rewrite society from the ground up"-level of impactful.
Son, with functional magic you can just build perpetum mobile. If that's not something rewriting society, then you are too stupid to make such setting.
Then comes transportation.
And storage.
Energy transmission.
No food shortages, ever.
No issues with fuel, both as is and the capacity of tanks.
Long-range communication in the past.
Ability to tweak matter without fuckload of expensive equipment that is around in RL for less than half a century.
And so on and forth.

Having functional magic in any fucking setting is a MASSIVE game-changer. Especially when it doesn't involve copious amounts of human sacrifice, summoning tentacles from space or going insane after lightening a candle with a flick of your fingers.
And even with those issues it would be probably well worth it, allowing to jump over issues normally taking fuckload of time and resources.

>>51963739
You're making some wild assumptions about the strength of magic and the number of mages.

>>51963766

That doesn't actually mean that he's wrong. It just means that it's possible to design a magic system where it wouldn't work out that way.

And in this case, he's clearly talking about RPM.

>>51963301
If I could fly at ~50 mph/80kph for half an hour I and almost nobody I know would need or want a car. A lot of technology came from or got applied to and improved because of cars. A huge society-shaping infrastructure in the U.S. surrounds cars and their support. If none of that was ever needed much of current society would look very different.

The same thing could be done for almost any bit of tech (like HVAC or even writing utensils) or social issue (everything from education to wealth inequality). The further back those changes happen the greater an impact any one of them will have on society. Any further than about a generation would have sweeping and drastic changes. Society goes a long way toward rewriting itself after only about five generations. You personally would be surprised at much of the difference between now and the world pre-WWI. Imagine what things could be like if any of the society shaping inventions of the last century either didn't happen or happened a century (or more) earlier, or were replaced by something roughly equivalent but very, very different.

It's a fascinating topic but one you might want to sidestep. One of the easiest ways to do that are to say the change is fairly recent, evenly distributed, and unable to be restricted.

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>>51963739
This guy gets it.

Just imagine a factory making, say, cars. Let's reduce magic to just moving matter over distance, k?
So you don't need any storage space for all the stuff you are going to use while pressing car chassis, because why would you, if you are transporting sheets of metal directly from the rolling mill (which also didn't have issues with storing ore or transporting it first). This way you can have the rolling mill on the other side of the planet and it doesn't make any difference whatsoever to the costs of production (aside the price the mill is setting, that is).
So you have this chassis pressed by metal that didn't need transportation or storage room. Then you can assemble the entire car, but rather than shipping it into containers or trucks, you can directly send them to your dealers.
Basically, you've just removed the costs of entire transportation and infrastructure needed for it, plus the vehicles needed for that. You've just lowered the production costs by half on every stage. And made logistics obsolete.

And assuming you have this magic around since forever, you would made half of infrastructure development in history never happen in the first place. Because why need to build roads for carts, if you can just flick your finger and the goods are already on place?
The real issues is how most of fantasy settings have access to this kind of magic, which can be used by anyone with some training and with no ill effects (aside maybe exhaustion), but the world isn't affected in the slightest. Bonus round if the magic is integral part of the setting and not just something that showed up last decade.

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>>51963766
Well, pic related for you.

Because depending on countless factors, it's very easy to find practical means of use for magic, even if it needs a human sacrifice each time you cast a spell.

>>51963739
You missed the fact that RPM is a) pretty damn risky even for once-a-generation mages with Skill-18, and b) ass at permanence, calling for continual rolls to upkeep duration and leading to more inevitable critical failures.

If you want to claim that the default magic system or symbol magic or sorcery or whatever would take us to a post-scarcity magitech utopia with only superficial similarities to ours, fine, I support that assertion, but RPM was made with secret subtle workings in mind and using it for magical infrastructure is like using a screwdriver as a hammer.

I'm not saying magic would have no impact--that'd be moronic--but I do believe it'll be more like >>51963696 with a few big magitech projects overseen by master mages that replace some aspects covered by real-world tech rather than something spun whole cloth.

>>51963858

Note that Luck and +INT imbued into permanent items *can be used to mitigate failures and improve skill.

So, slowly, a magical society would accumulate casting items that greatly improve the safety and reliability of RPM.

>>51963858
>pretty damn risky even for once-a-generation mages with Skill-18
It isn't any more risky than operating nuclear power plant.

>>51963858
>pretty damn risky even for once-a-generation mages
There are people who would gladly sacrifice MILLIONS of other humans if that would mean making, say, an instant connection between one continent and another.
>ass at permanence, calling for continual rolls to upkeep duration and leading to more inevitable critical failures.
What are portals, and other perma-structures with magic properties

Also - why it's suddenly so damn important to talk about RPM, if it wasn't specified at the start? The only specification was that magic is public and always around.
It literally doesn't matter what kind of magic you are going to use. It could be Lovecraftian stuff from Horror and it would be still worth it.
It's like you never heard how everyone and their dog knew mercury was poisonous, but also everyone and their dog liked to mine that silver and it was only possible if thousands of people were slowly dying due to mercury poisoning (and it's painful, not to mention mental issues) each decade, going like this for 400 years.
Everyone knew it was wrong and dangerous. And yet they did it.
And that was without adding magic to equation.

>>51963858
>S-stop implying the magic would completely change the world
>I-it would be the same
No it fucking wouldn't. At all. Any form of magic that goes above sleight of hand, no matter how rare and limited, as long as reliable(ish) would completely change the course of human development. The sooner it would show up, the bigger the impact.

>>51963826
>>51963856
>>51963739
>which can be used by anyone with some training and with no ill effects
This is the part that really messes people up. Even in D&D magic isn't just 'training' it's talent plus capacity. A person with a 12 intelligence, which is higher than average, can never cast teleport, fabricate, fireball, lightning bolt, permanency, or effective illusions. Even a 14, well above average, can never cast teleport, fabricate, or other spells that make manufacturing and transportation obsolete. And this is the system considered the "most easily accessible magic of all systems with the most broken systems of magic".

GURPS is even harder on mages than D&D - the most powerful transportation spells requite high level magery, which deeply bites into the average 50 point person's capability to do anything. Remember, the average joe has a mere 50 points to spend on Stats, Skills, and Magery, which precludes a massive number of people being anything but brains and very hyper specialized mages with almost no training in anything else, considering all spells are Hard or Very Hard intelligence skills with the most useful and world effecting spells having as many as 5 prerequisites. To get a spell high enough level that you're not going to critfail every single day you cast it more than 4 times is a massive depletion of resources for a mere 50 point character.

>>51963910
>Also - why it's suddenly so damn important to talk about RPM, if it wasn't specified at the start?

>>51958985
>but Ritual Path Magic is a public fact of life

>>51963878
True, but that is still specialized gear. Assuming the Luck artifacts are made (maybe it's the final step in advancing from journeyman to professional Mage, or it's the last thing you do before you get your degree/certification), that's 200 hours per point. Further assuming that the Luck is specialized to be for RPM crit fails and combines with Gadget limitations bring the final cost to [5] rather than [15], that's 1000 hours of creation time, or roughly four months of very dry work with no other benefits. That's on top of the YEARS of study required to bring at least two IQ/VH skills to a reasonable level (Thaumatology plus only one Path).

Basically, mages that do more help that harm will be the setting's doctors, lawyers, and other highly trained individuals, not the Toms and Lindas of the setting. They will be the captains of industry, not the factory workers.

>>51963939
So we go from "everyone can use magic" to "only 0.01% of population can do that!"
That still gives us 80 million magic users. That's about entire population of Germany, to put that into some perspective.

And you are missing one important bit - spells don't need to be casted by single person.

Seriously, why every time there is a discussion about applications of magic, regardless of setting, system and so on, there will be always some single paranoid dude who would try to pretend magic is not completely changing the rules of the "game".

>>51963936
>I'm not saying magic would have no impact--that'd be moronic
Please learn to read you stuttering faggot.

>>51963973
>Let's ignore 6000 years of human development and try to pretend something costing few days to make really matters at such perspective
Why are you doing this?

>>51964005
Not him, but you really need to calm down. This is GURPS general

>>51964010
Why are you refusing to read the entire posts and instead arguing against only a line at a time in a vacuum with no context? Do you really have nothing better to do on a Wednesday morning that pick fights on an anonymous imageboard?

>>51964022
Fuck that. People start slinging shit are going to get shit slung right back at them.

>>51964010
>Let's ignore 6000 years of difference
Why are you doing this?

>>51963973

Right, but what you've described isn't much more than that demanded by a University education.

Say, a Bachelor's of Thaumatology would allow one to pursue a low-risk magical career and register for a practitioner's license, and the final project of a Masters degree is the creation of a Luck Amulet.

It's not too different from spending your last year of study trying to make a shitty atomic-force microscope return half-decent results.

And every Luck Amulet is a permanent resource that can be handed down to your children (though with Longevity you may well still be around), who can add further enchantments in their own time.

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>>51963990
>>51963973

RPM items wear out over time and Luck items aren't a sure thing. Luck itself doesn't fit the tone of many games, as it's a purely metagame trait. It's also far less useful if the GM calls for all the rolls for a long, complicated ritual over the course of a few minutes.

If Luck items aren't around then fuckups with RPM item creation can very, very easily be lethal. Any industrial process with the kind of risk would be abandoned, or performed only by desperate types far away from everyone else.

A few changes (Luck does not work on Magic, for example) can create a darker tone where in that setting major magic items mean someone risked blowing up everything within a mile or unleashing a magic horror on the world.

>>51964103

Sure - but that's not straight RPM. That's RPM with houserules.

>>51964101
>Luck Amulet
Aren't a thing. Characters can't observe or understand luck. It works on rules that would require they know they are in a roleplaying game.

>>51964026
>Morning
Why aren't you at work/school, American friend?

And back to the subject:
It takes 200 hours per point. It takes about... 20 years of training to reach that point? So we are talking about 20 years of training, and you can make something worth 3 points per each year of work. Now assuming you start with a child, you end up with 30-35 guy who has reached about half of his life. For following 20-30 years that's what? 60-90 points?
Let's just make that 50, shall we?
That means a single mage can pass for the next generation a shit that provides DOUBLE the capabilities of average human, plus the training.
It snowballs into idiotic numbers within single century of dedicated work.
And trust me, humans spend their time and energy on more superflous things. Just read history of early astronomy and how long it took to accumulate enough data, but still was worth it.

>They will be the captains of industry, not the factory workers.
What he >>51963990 said. It doesn't matter. Really.

>>51964103
You've just added bunch of rules that aren't in RPM to make your point.
In short - you've changed the parameters so their suit your argument.

Don't do that.

>>51964124
From this point of view one could argue that crit fail isn't a thing either. It's just game mechanic to make things more exciting.

>>51964101
This.
We are going back to base one here, because it goes back to "if you train an individual, you get someone with proper skills"
Wow, what a surprise! And which was my point from the start - you can train such people. Which with proper education system and initiative of the specific business sector means millions of graduates all over the world with all the skills and training needed.

Just check how engineeering degrees work IRL.

>>51964117
It's not a house-rule. You can't make a Luck amulet anymore then you can make a High TL amulet or a Reputation amulet, and Cinematic rules are turned off by default, not on.

>>51964124

Luck can be measured quite easily - flipping coins, for example - and can be *explicitly* granted by magic.

>>51964174
>I failed statistics, the post

>>51964124
Luck is nothing more than probabilities and messing with them.
Which just about any form of magic within GURPS is perfectly capable of

>>51964185
>If I don't have any arguments left, I will start insulting people
Again, this is GURPS general.

>>51964101
My point exactly. It's a specialized skill set that will be somewhat uncommon (there will inevitably be people that don't pursue a future in thaumatology, whether it's due to lacking Magery, pursuing a different educational goal, or some everyday obstacle like lacking the means to attend college) and mastered by only a very elite few. The changes on a global scale will be less that that of a setting where everyone can cast magic safely and securely, which seemed to be the initial assumption I was arguing against.

For the rest of the thread: I am not and have never argued that magic bring real and public is a minor thing with no effect on the world. I am arguing that the way RPM is set up mechanically will limit the benefits of magic. The resulting culture will be DIFFERENT but not TOTALLY ALIEN.

>>51964203
>Starts yelling at people in a library
>Someome tells them to shut the fuck up
>"wow dude we're in a library you're supposed to stay quiet sweaty :^) plus your being rude no need for that"

>>51964205
It would still have a trendemous effect on history, so assuming you start from TL0, yeah, it would be alien. Maybe not totally, but close.
It's very simple, really. The earlier the change, the weirder the world. That's like... basics of IW

Either way, since I'm new to this argument, but I've got a specific question and got tangled instead:
What's the difference between broadswords and rapiers? I never, ever run a Low Tech campaign, the lowest we ever run was Western-esque settings, but now my players keep nagging me for golden age of piracy campaign and I've realised broadswords and rapiers are two different things.
What's the practical difference?

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You are all pretty, stop fighting girls.

But seriously: RPM effects on a world's development and culture are up to the GM.

In your game you may have them run to whatever direction you like. The first setting to publish RPM, Monster Hunters, focused on magic as secret and hidden in the modern world, not something everybody was doing.

If you aren't running a game, your input on world-building is going to be very limited and your GM can ignore your opinion. The rather flexible and loose rules for RPM means it can fit into a lot of different settings, but it can also become Calvinball if people go too far with it.

>>51964205
>I am arguing that the way RPM is set up mechanically will limit the benefits of magic. The resulting culture will be DIFFERENT but not TOTALLY ALIEN.

And I agree with that - so I suppose we're just splitting hairs.

Personally I don't have *too* much interest in a totally alien setting. Technomancer does well enough for me.

>>51964185

Oh really? Well, please, feel free to enlighten me as to how measuring the alteration of probability via the Path of Chance in both specific (coin flipping) and broad cases (accidental death) is impossible.

After all, one might consider the existence of the Path of Chance to be quite strong evidence to the contrary...

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>>51964248
Here, you seem to need it badly.
Unfortunatelly, that's the last bit for you.

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>>51964251
A broadword is a comparatively wide bladed straight sword suited to cut and thrust with a basket hilt, common to the early modern period Europe. They became smaller over time, but were quite popular in Scotland.

A rapier is a long sword suited to thrusting, with a basket hilt and a point of balance close to the hilt. Traditionally they did have an edge and could slash, and were heavier then many swords. They do suffer some in close confines, such as on a ship, so handier weapons are preferred.

>>51964252
Neither of the fighting anons, but for me this peculiar case of RMP reminds me of "Alchemist" short story by Bacigalupi. Everyone in the setting is doing some bits - small, almost non-important - of magic that eerily reminds of RMP.
It's perfectly normal TL3+1 setting, because the magic in one hand, helps a lot, but in the other, it's too weak on individual level to make any bigger difference, unless you are indeed a trained magician who did nothing else but study for most of his life. So while the Grand Mage of the City Magistrate is literally building a floating palace above the city, the main character can barely lessen the effect of pneumonia for his little daughter and that's the most powerful magic he has - he can't even cure her properly.

>>51964251

Basically, the rapier is specialised for the thrusting attack - it's about the same mass of metal, but drawn out to a longer blade.

If you're talking pirates, well they're likely going to be lightly armoured - so the superior reach of the rapier might make it the best choice for this application.

Of course, it being longer might make it awkward on board a ship where there're all kinds of obstacles in play.

>>51964251
True. I guess it's just a matter of scale, and that's up to the GM.

As for the swords, lower weight due to thinner blades and the center of weight is closer to the handle. It makes them easier to control, hence the F parry bonus. Check A Matter of Inches in Martial Arts for a more granual approach.

>>51964298
I know what those weapons are IRL, I don't see why they are different mechanically.
If they are different. It just confused the hell of me and my players when we were trying to generate a baseline pirate template and we realised there is both Broadswords and Rapiers for skills.

>>51964251
>What's the practical difference?

In reality?

Rapiers will usually be somewhat thrust-optimised, with outliers that are either balanced cut-n-thrust designs, or very heavily thrust-optimised ones. Broadswords on the other hand will tend to be more or less balanced cut-n-thrust on some sort of rough average, with plenty of specific ones made more for cutting or thrusting. Sometimes determining what is what can come down to purely stylistic features.

>>51964259
There's no alteration in probability when flipping a coin. Such a task would be resolved with no dice roll and the luck advantage could not be used to alter it.

More broadly: If you flip a coin and get heads three times in a row, it's not a sign of a glitch in the matrix. A fair coin will land on one side or the other half the time when properly flipped, but if some effect is altering the coin to be unfair you'd need to flip it many, many times to establish that, and even then you haven't proven anything.

This is especially true because of how Luck works on a purely meta-game level. If you try to sit down in game and study it for thirty years, sitting in a room and flipping a coin over and over your Luck will be used exactly once, because that thirty years will pass in moments out of game and give no time for your Luck to recharge and be used again.

That's the real problem with a theory on the Luck advantage, in game: It is dependent on factors that are only going to be knowable to a character in a Toon game, or a Deadpool style parody.

>>51964338
I need mechanical difference. I happen to come with country with quite broad and vivid fencing traditions, but from it, the main difference would be time period and in case of age of piracy, it solves nothing, since they are too close to each other.
But I'm currently flipping pages due to what this >>51964326 anon said.

>>51964328
Because they are different weapons IRL.
Also GURPS has special treatment for fencing weapons (rapier, saber, smallsword, jian) which may or may not be realistic but fits cinematic idea of swashbucklers well.

>>51964364
But you can make luck run off in game time instead of play time.

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>>51964324

Broadwords are also something of a national weapon of Scotland, so Scottish lads are more likely to have one then the rapiers popular in southern Europe.

Broadwords vary quite a bit. Larger military weapons tended to slightly heavier then a rapier, by six ounces or so, while later back swords and gentlemanly sidearms could be under two pounds.

>>51964328
In game? The following generalizes, the Low Tech and Basic Set books have the full stats

Broadwords have Reach 1 but deal Thrust + 2 Imp and can slash for Swing+ 1 Cut

Rapiers have Reach 1,2 and hit for Thrust +1 Imp, and might have an edge for swing + 0 Cut. They cost much more.

Let's see what this looks like for a factory worker.

If an average (IQ10) person put a single point into Thaumatology (skill 7), wasn't an adept, and put no points into any path skills, his effective skill would be 2. His minimum time to cast a spell that takes even only a single point of energy is 5 minutes. He's going to critically fail about 25% of the time on that one energy ritual. If he kills something like a chicken he gets 4 ((2x11)/5) bonus points of energy. What 5 energy spells are useful enough to risk two 30-energy critical failures a week (assuming a single spell cast per day)?

If this gets improved by having some equipment ($5,200 at TL8, about the price of a used car to get +5) his effective skill leaps up to a whopping 7! Each point now takes 10 minutes to gather but he almost never crit fails if he only gathers 2 points and can gather 5 or 6 if he's willing to accept about 1 crit fail a month. Our blue collar caster is now pretty reliably able to cast 8 energy spells every half an hour. This is a world-changing level already (he can now work sterilizing surgery suites or do the equivalent to curing the common cold, most infections, and many minor injuries! Most of the reasons most people to the doctor are now gone.)

Just a single point spend and a small business loan and this guy can open a doctor's office. A neighborhood clinic is no small thing to a society. I'm sure there are many, many more examples that fit into even this very restricted set of assumptions. Loosening these restrictions (a +1 or +2 place of power, equipment closer to the price of a new car instead of a crappy used one, a couple or a few more points spent, etc.) really opens the flood gates.

>>51964502
>In game?
Plus the bad ass fencing parries for rapiers.

>>51964311
That's the kind of setting I like. Magic might be able to do amazing feats, but for most people the best they can hope for is to avoid getting in the way of it, to think it doesn't exist or to scrape up enough power for a small but very important thing, like treating a child's serious illness enough to ease their suffering and help them recover.

>>51964530
Sort of an interesting idea, but I don't think it would make a good setting.

>>51964530
Don't forget about the Ritual Mastery perk, which increases someone's skill for a specific ritual by +2. This would be used by anyone for rote casting (such as minor healing for sale as charms).

>>51964602
Well, the main selling point of the setting is overuse of magic and it basically being post-apo, with with magic and Arabian-esque stuff thrown in. Because everyone was using it and everything was running on it, when suddenly a pest plant growing faster in presence of magic showed up, it swalled most of the world within few decades, because people just couldn't help it and use "just a little magic", while everyone knew the danger.
So while everyone assumes they can get away with casting "some small spell", in the grand picture of thing, they are barely scrapping alive from the toxic jungle enveloping them from all sides, even if there is just a single mage around and he's probably the only self-restrained person of them all, using magic only when there is no other option left.
Or until he and the magistrate find a way to supress magic use among common people.

Good read, great for mining the setting itself.

>>51964602
>Sort of an interesting idea, but I don't think it would make a good setting.

At that level it's not too dissimilar to Technomancer with much more flexible spell casting.

I've brought it up before, but the big mega-rituals that governments could command could blanket cities/nations with powerful wards against certain magical effects, and impose an order upon the chaos of the RPM free-for-all.

>>51964620
I didn't. That's part of the "etc" before the floodgates open. This extremely minimal example could be just about anyone working a fast food place or as a convenience store clerk.

RPM is society altering even at this level. Any further and it's earth shaking.

>>51964602
>Sort of an interesting idea, but I don't think it would make a good setting
Wasn't intended as an independent idea or my setting. It was just supposed to look at what every Joe Average could do with RPM and how drastically that would change the world.

I was exploring other anon's RPM setting idea using rules hoping to point out how drastically things would change at a minimum.

>>51964530
>>51964742
I think we might be underestimating just how difficult a Very Hard skill is. Biology, Physics, and Surgery are all examples of very hard, realistic skills, but almost everyone takes specialties for those skills due to their difficulty.

Using Physician's Weekly as a source, there were 5.8 general surgeons per 100,000 people as of 2012, or about 18,000 active general surgeons, which is down from around 25,000 in the last 25 years. From an adult population around 4,938,911,415 (everyone 15+, numbers from wikipedia), that means there would be roughly 286,456 practicing thaumatologists.

Now, Bio-Tech says that professionals have Surgery at 14+, so understandably there could be a few million more with Surgery skill levels below that, but they wouldn't be practicing, as a person's life is on the line. In non-American countries, maybe there's a larger population with lower skill.

Point is, even though you can be quite successful with a single point in Thaumatology and a variety of equipment and environmental bonuses, Very Hard is exactly what it says on the tin, and that should inform you about the size of the general population of professionals in Very Hard skills. They're arduous to learn, no doubt requiring innate talent.

You also can't ignore that critical failure every month. Body can send you into severe pain for three hours, Energy can cause a 4d explosive fireball to go off in your face (sending you straight to a Death Check), Matter can destroy your equipment, etc.. Surgery doesn't have that issue of fucking you up once a month. RPM magic would be heavily regulated, if allowed at all. 286,500 critical failures every month is very bad.

>>51965353
You are absolutely right. The 8 energy figure assumes gathering less than the 5 or 6 that ups the crit fail chance. I probably should have spelled it out.

One thing you are assuming is that there is a difference between spending 1 character point on an Easy (or any other difficulty skill) and a Very Hard skill.

You're also conflating learning a single VH skill with professions that require multiple skills learned to be effective. And you're assuming it requires some innate specialness before someone can even learn a VH skill.

Your points are well taken though.

Quick, my character has 1 unspent point.
Which skill is either so fun, dumb or useful that it's worth it to drop one random point into?

>>51965492
>One thing you are assuming is that there is a difference between spending 1 character point on an Easy (or any other difficulty skill) and a Very Hard skill.
That's true. I completely ignored the RSL, which is what actually determines how difficult a skill is. I still feel that it being so difficult would discourage many from even attempting, ignoring start-up costs for equipment to make their meager education economically viable.

>You're also conflating learning a single VH skill with professions that require multiple skills learned to be effective. And you're assuming it requires some innate specialness before someone can even learn a VH skill.
True again on both parts - surgeons require many more skills than simply Surgery, but they generally aren't all Very Hard skills, for what it's worth. Innate talent just makes sense to me for a field like general surgery, but I suppose it's more about hard work and affording the education than being born good at it.

Something I swear was in the core RPM book, but can't find now, are stabilizing skills (founded on Thaumatology p. 28 and p. 40, with a perk for a single skill for the former in Pyramid #3/66 - The Laws of Magic, pg. 10). If you just included "Skills to Salvage Critical Failures," RPM would be much more attractive to the general world, as it mostly nips critical failures in the bud. I haven't done the math on it, but completely ignoring one critical failure per day when you have a stabilizing skill at 15+ means you're never going to critically fail. Once you roll poorly, you just stop casting for that day. That really would revolutionize the world.

>>51965599
Erotic Arts.

>>51965605
>start-up costs for equipment
This is really the sticking point that I sort of hand-waved past. Without grimoires, places of power, or other skill bonuses common industrial RPM does take real points (10s or 20s at least) to make feasible.

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Will such kind of metal face mask give no peripheral vision/tunnel vision?

>>51965599
Pet Perk!

>>51965696
I don't know the invention rules, but making a grimoire is always a Complex invention with a Concept penalty equal to -(bonus+4), meaning that a +1 grimoire is at a -5 Concept roll. Complex inventions require an 18 in the skill. They're rolling at -19 for the Concept roll. I think that makes grimoires pretty hard to make, if its limited to "once in a generation" types.

Crafting equipment and Ritual Mastery are an easy +4, at least, for an industrial charm factory. High prices for auspicious land that counts as a Place of Power, and will only return on its investment as it continues to be used for years, making it even more powerful in the process from the amount of magic that flows through it. You'll get magic barons controlling decades-old plots with factories that give a +2 or +3 to rolls. It will be a difficult market to enter. I imagine you'd also have cottage industries with places of power in backyards, where their family's practiced magic for generations.

This is starting to sound like a really fun setting, actually. Damn.

>>51965744
It's like you never wore a carnival mask. And on average, they do affect your depth perception, since they affect peripheral vision.
Said that, if you are already wearing glasses, they don't affect shit, since you are "trained" to face things rather than trying to roll your eyeballs, but that's minor stuff.

Either way - they should give peripheral vision malnus.

>>51965599
Rapier Wit is always good if melee is a thing in the setting.

>>51965605
>Erotic Arts.
Tempting, but maybe later.

>>51965748
I already have a pet of sorts.
But I got the next best thing, Falconry. That's sort of like a pet, right?

>>51965885
Melee is a thing, but I'm rarely in it. But this looks fun, so maybe once I get 5 free points.

New thread >>51965962
New thread >>51965962
New thread >>51965962