Will monks ever be a viable class?

>>51861946
I've always thought monks could make a perfectly viable "melee crowd control" class:

>Lower base damage
>Higher number of attacks per round
>Can split up movement between each attack at will
>Can replace any number of attacks with trip, disarm, or crippling affects

>Bounce around a room, tripping up a half-dozen mooks in one round for the barbarian to Greater Cleave with ease

>>51862060
Isn't that how they work in 5e?

I forget, which editions were the ones where monks were broken and which were the editions where monks were useless?

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>>51862482
Stat him

>>51861946
Why exactly are monks considered weak?

new to TTG, please don't judge

>>51861946
They are only unviable in 3.5 and core 3.PF. All other editions they are at least viable, if redundant.

>>51863290
they aren't, at least not in 5e

Would a barbarian/monk multiclass work well?

>>51861946
Monks are viable, they're just not as powerful as some of the other classes, and some of their class abilities are granted way too late, and offer way too little.

>Alright, level 17! What do I get?
>"You can now speak with any creature"
>....T...That's it?
>"That's it."

The natural spell-resistance at level 13 helps though.

>>51862516
Is this a variation of the slave squat?
His feet look perfectly planted

>>51863290
In 3.0/3.5 they're an unfocused mess. Combat abilities that only work when standing still, combined with a bunch of abilities that focus on mobility, requires more good stats than any other class, relies very heavily on magic items despite functionally having less magic item slots, and has terrible BAB.

In Pathfinder it started out similarly (only slightly less awful), but supplements made the Monk roughly on par with Ranger, which is decent. (Though if you choose the shitty options in Pathfinder you can still be terrible).

>>51861946
Monks are perfectly viable in 4e and somewhat less viable in 5e, it's only in 3/3.5e and thus derived products (like Pathfinder) they are completely fucked.

>>51862060
That's how they play in 5e, and in 4e they can also stack a billion attacks onto one target to do decent dmg to control high risk enemies.

>>51863359
bump

>>51863574
Did you forget the 17th feature of the subclasses? But yeah, that is rather limited at such a late level, with or without the subclass feature. "Things that would be minor features in other point buy games of a similar power level being locked behind far away goalposts" are one of many aspects I honestly hate about DnD.

>>51863888
He's referencing 3.5, where monks did suck. 3.5 (well PF too, but they're the same shit) is also the only edition they ever have sucked, but it doesn't stop people from saying it

Monks were a viable class back in 3.5 when I min-maxed and convinced my DM to let me use a bunch of random supplemental shit. Of course, I could have done the same thing with a different class and gotten a better result but I still had the best character in the party. Don't judge me too harshly, this was back in high school.

>>51863617
no, slav squat needs the knees to be more spred so you can easily rest your arms on them. This is sneaky breeki squat, he is gone shoot a bitch in a second or two but be very sneaky about it

>>51863359
>>51863852
Yes, in 5e at least.

>>51862467
Yes and no, they can't crowd control shit in 5e, or damage shit for that matter. They're great survivors...once you reach 14th level

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Is this D&D monk power scale accurate?

3.5 monk with extreme unarmed damage size stacking > 4e Desert Wind (Blistering Flourish on flurry) monk > 4e Iron Soul monk > 4e Centered Breath and Desert Wind (no Blistering Flourish on flurry) monks > 4e Eternal Tide monk > 4e Stone Fist monk > 3.5 monk with moderate unarmed damage size stacking > Path of War monk of the Silver Fist > 13th Age monk > 5e monk > 5e Way of the Four Elements monk > Pathfinder monk unchained >>>>> regular Pathfinder monk > regular 3.5 monk

The strongest monk I ever played was a Decisive Strike Monk2/Psychic Warrior 13 with tashalatorra feat, double hit, karmic strike and lots of shit to increase my damage die.

80 damage on average per hit, and I could potentially hit 20 times per turn.

>>51865999
You forgot the two 1e and however many 2e ones.

>>51865999
Not even remotely.

>>51861946
>Will monks ever be a viable class?

4E PHB2 called to inform you that monks are ~~magical~~

>>51866216
>4E PHB2 called to inform you that monks are ~~magical~~

that was PHB3, and it was awesome, and Monks were awesome

yes, 4e Monks were fucking asskickers who could go Jackie Chan on whole hordes of mooks

>>51866149
How would you rate them then?

>>51866286
>that was PHB3

Dishonor on me, dishonor on my monastery.

>>51863617
That's actually called "the village squat" or "tribal squat". It's a posture used by a lot of cultures who generally don't use chairs. It's just supppsed to be comfortable and easy to maintain for long periods of time.

It's not comfortable unless you're used to it - trust me, I've been trying.

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>>51865999
>3.5 monk with extreme unarmed damage size stacking

So the best monks are the giant monks?

>>51867561
Actually no due LA, human will be better because his extra feat and no LA makes him surpass giants in damage die and depending on the LA even in damage overall.

>>51867561
No, get Improved Natural Weapon and have your party wizard cast Greater Mighty Wallop on you every day, and buy a CL 20 Permanence'd Greater Magic Fang as soon as you can (it's only a few thousand gp, and no enemy you meet on that level will be able to dispel it). If you don't count as a level 20 Colossal monk by level 8 at the latest, get the fuck out of my party.

>>51865999
I mean, wouldn't that be up to how you define power?

If it's just large damage, sure. But if you consider relative strength to other classes and things like flexibility (both in and out of combat) it's a pretty damn plain class. This one >>51866051 is probably a better version of monk, if it counts (unless I misunderstood you and you meant multiclass monks to begin with in which case I don't even know).

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>>51862516
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Dwarf)
Hit Dice: 1d8+2 (6 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. in scale mail (4 squares); base speed 20 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+4 scale mail, +2 heavy shield), touch 10, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Dwarven waraxe +3 melee (1d10+1/x3) or shortbow +1 ranged (1d6/x3)
Full Attack: Dwarven waraxe +3 melee (1d10+1/x3) or shortbow +1 ranged (1d6/x3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Dwarf traits
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., dwarf traits
Saves: Fort +4*, Ref +0*, Will –1*
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6
Skills: Appraise +2, Craft (blacksmithing) +2, Craft (stonemasonry) +2, Listen +2, Spot +2
Feats: Weapon Focus (dwarven waraxe), Favored Enemy: Carp
Environment: Temperate mountains
(Deep: Underground)
Organization: Team (2–4), squad (11–20 plus 2 3rd-level sergeants and 1 leader of 3rd–6th level), or clan (30–100 plus 30% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 10 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, and 3 7th-level captains)
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: Standard coins; double goods; standard items
Alignment: Often lawful good
(Deep: Usually lawful neutral or neutral)
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +0

>>51868371

in 4e massive HP damage is really good because everything has a bit too much HP and does a little too little damage, in pf/3.5 anyone who isn't dumping a truckload of save or die spells on enemies every round is shit because one of nasty crusty bits of that era of D20 was DR/HP Regen and AC scaling faster than to-hit bonuses and direct damage, while the save systems and effects were largely unchanged from AD&D (and thus balanced within the context of their own mechanical subsystem).

Meanwhile you have the Akashic Brotherhood tradition from Mage: the Ascension who is exactly as broken and OP as any other Mage PC from Mage The Ascension is, especially compared to other types of PCs from literally any system including Exalted, and thus everything boils down to highly narrative Jojo Battles where the winner is usually the person with exactly *one* more twist than their opponent. (with the caveat that the focus on the Mind Sphere makes the Akashics kinda OP as fuck when dealing with Sleepers and thus avoiding paradox if they can resist the urge to do public displays of wire-fu)

Have you tried not playing D&D? I am enjoying a Legends of the Wulin right now.

>>51862060
Basically play them like this and maybe multi-class Rogue for some of the disengage and hide stuff. That plus the shadow path and they make a decent highly mobile stunlocker.

I've never had the chance to play pen and paper DND - though I would like to - but Monk was always my go-to class in NWN and NWN2. I remember the best players on PVP arena servers in NWN 1 would always use Monk, I used that class too.

>>51861946
Does anyone have that picture where he's getting a haircut while reading this magazine?

>>51861946
>I got bare hands
>this motherfucker got plate armor and a sword
>imma beat his ass

Yeah, no.

>>51872255
Plate armour isn't as effective as you'd think when dealing with someone who has the physical power and athletic prowess to jump 20 feet straight in the air and is four times faster than you.

>>51872255

>Plate armor

>Ha, ha, the silly peasants!
>Oh shit, is that a knife?

>>51867561
Sauce?

>>51865965
>Stunning Blow
>Can't crowd control

>>51872255
ki magic

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Why did the thread get nuked but not expunged?

They aren't terrible outside of 3.5, but in 5e I do wonder how well they keep up at higher levels. Stunning fist alone doesn't really seem like a solid role to me, and as far as damage they don't seem like they would be anything special. I'm kind of hopeful for kensai if that ever gets out of UA though
>>51875368
Well in theory if the thread still exists there's no way to create a new one without it being a meta thread, and therefor quicker to get removed, but I'd probably just chalk it up to whimsy.

>>51875368
Because the mods think that it is possible to have a decent on topic discussion here. I would like to note that they missed a few posts.

>>51868733
>DR/HP Regen and AC scaling faster than to-hit bonuses and direct damage
It's the other way around. Basically any melee build worth their salt can blow an enemy right the fuck up in a single round and AC in particular is so shitty compared to attack bonuses that it's only good for lowering the chance of being hit by iteratives. The problem is actually getting in position to kill shit and not running into stupid mechanics like miss chance or crit immunity that ruin your day.

>>51861946
Somebody got triggered.

>>51867561
>>51872993
>Sauce?
Damnit, I guess we'll never know.

>>51867561
>>51876596
I've tried iqdb, saucenao, and tineye. All turn up nothing.

>>51876662
Recognizing the artist is pretty easy.

>>51876779
I'm not familiar.

>>51867561
>>51872993
Anyone? Anyone at all?

>>51877221
"Stravaganza: Isai no Hime".

>>51861946
Just play anima.

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>>51876481
And he does it for free.

>>51866051
>>51866286
4e melding monks with psionics was honestly the best idea.
Especially since it works just as well in other editions.

>>51866051
>and I could potentially hit 20 times per turn.

jesus, and he'll have tweaked his initiative so every battle starts with a session of just this one guy's endless turn before everybody else does their one action and the session has to end because it's lasted 3 hours already.

>>51878386
You are a gentleman and a scholar.