Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

First for the Dark Eldar! Long live the Dark City!

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Second for militarum tempestus

Third for Alpha Legion

Remember to vote! It's your duty!

http://www.strawpoll.me/12390656/r

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Fourth for Yvraine

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>Aeldari
My sides

>>51845035
FUCK

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>>51845048
>Aeldari

>>51844993
It needs no FAQ. The rules state that any Dedicated Transport gets the battlefield role of its associated unit. Land Raider Crusaders taken as Dedicated Transports are no longer Heavy Support but are Troops for all intents and purposes.

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Any idea on how to paint WB like this?

Reminder nids are the biggest threat to the galaxy

Should I even bother with a chaos contemptor? They seem way overcosted for what they do.

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>>51845035
>even the females look transexual

>>51844961
So it's been years since I've actually collected the models or played the game, but I've made a decent effort to keep up with the fluff and rules to a degree. This time I'm planning on picking up a bit of Tau, but I have a tendency to prefer fluff over crunch in my army lists and (at least as far as I remember), actual Battlesuits are far rarer than most army lists would have you believe.

How are Fire Warriors and Pathfinders in Devilfish as a core concept to build around these days, providing I don't really need anything beyond 'decent in average play' tiers of effectiveness? I've got the Codices and can do math-hammer but I wouldn't trust that entirely without experience.

>>51844996
The Dark City belong to the Mandrake now.

>>51845067
With a Citadel® high detail brush™ and Citadel® paints

Why do people like AdMech? They're the lamest faction in the game, every single model looks exactly the same.

>>51845067
You want a step by step guide?

>>51845067
The trim looks like retributor armor with heavy silver drybrushing. Duncan has a tutorial on word bearers i think.

>>51845098
They've got a very centralised aesthetic in terms of the Skitarii, but I for one feel as if their models are different enough to be worth collecting larger forces of if you take varied units, beyond that the AdMech fluff is metal as fuck.

>>51845083
>How are Fire Warriors and Pathfinders in Devilfish as a core concept
With marker light support they're only beat in terms of value to point ratio by one other troops choice in the entire game, and that's saying something, considering all the other bullshit troops choices.

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>orks are a melee race!
>i2

>>51845098
Old bait

>>51845099
Sure.

>>51845110
Yeah, but that's for the HH WB scheme, and I feel like Mephiston Red isn't a color you want for them. Too light.

>>51845098
Because they're incredibly powerful? Because they've got access to the objecitvely best troop choice in the entire game? Because they've got a neato retro 50's THEY CAME FROM MARS thing going on?

>>51845083
I've played against tau a bit. Pathfinders and Fire Warriors are very solid, and Devilfish have nice cover. They'll kick the shit out of most other troops, but they'll get kicked in by any melee (obviously) or heavy stuff.

>>51845098
>Why do people like Eldar? Every single model looks exactly the same.
>Why do people like Tau? Every single model looks exactly the same.
>Why do people like Necrons? Every single model looks exactly the same.
>Why do people like Space Marines? Every single model looks exactly the same.

It's called an aesthetic and visual coherency inside the faction. They're not meant to be like Orks where their entire design is built around "shit that never fits together and everything looks and is ramshackled and doesn't really fit with anything else".

>>51845145
>objectively best troop choice in the entire game
But that's not Scatbikes, anon.

>>51845005
Why is literally every color scheme for Tempestus Stormtroopers i've seen better than the stock "pale blue" GW plasters all over them?

>>51845124
>>51845152
I can see that, particularly with a boosted BS the S5 30" becomes particularly nasty in the math-hammer in comparison to most standard arms.

So I'm considering grabbing a Fireblade as an HQ, at least initially, in a heavy mechanized infantry heavy build of FW, PF and Devilfish primarily, what would you recommend for anti-vehicle if I were to go for a truly fluffy list? Broadsides were my first go-to but the numbers don't speak too favourably for the Heavy Rail-Rifle.

>>51845175
True, but windriders are an exception

>>51845115
>different enough to be worth collecting
>when everything is just cogs and fish-tanks

>>51845145
So only WAACfaggots like them then? Got it.

>>51845162
Wrong, Tau and Eldar models all look different when the units are different, SM less so but still has varied vehicles such as Dreads vs Land Speeders and Preds vs Land Raiders.

With AdMech, everything is either a bunch of cogs with a red robe or a fish-tank.

Is there any reason to include any Sisters units in a Castellans list beyond Celestine? I'm not the sharpest pencil, but every slot seems to have better choices.

>>51845191
Maybe they thought giving them an ultramarine treatment would make them sell better, but half of the color schemes in the book are waaay better than the one they parade around all the time

>>51845216
It's not their fault they wished to emulate the Spiritual Liege.

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>tfw 2d6 + 12" + rerollable first turn Maulerfiend charge
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

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>>51845143
If you've got an airbrush this might do it; http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/ar/t567.htm
If not, try khorne red with nuln oil wash

>>51845214

You don't even need sisters for Celestine if you don't like them. You can take any if the hq choices with any of the troops. Personally I like sisters, so I'm working towards building them, but if you don't like them that doesn't mean you can't run the living saint.

Okay anons, I have a question, was this cheesy as fuck or no? My friend and I were doing a 1000 point CSM vs CSM game, I was just doing Vanilla rules but he was using Thousand Son rules. He had this group of 5 TS Terminators and A Terminator Sorcerer Lord or something and he had this Daemon Prince that was attaching and detaching off of it when needed. Thing is apparently his Warlord trait allowed the unit to essentially have the 3D6 jumpack sort of movement thing going on plus all their guns were combi-bolters with AP3 and Soulblaze, so far bad but the absolute worst part was to come. He constantly put invisisble on them and it was impossible to block because every turn he had like 14 warp charges and I had 2. So basically now I could only hit them on 6s. The first thing he does though is jump them to my lascannon squad and destory them, meaning I had only one other unit (my helbrute with multi-melta) that could actually penetrate their armour 2+. So now he had an invisible squad of TS terminators with crazy bolters plus armour that I could no longer penetrate and an invisible daemon prince with some weird TS relic. Was I right to wuss out end of turn 2 after I realized I could not ever beat them?

>>51845175
>>51845196

No, I'm talking pure point to value ratio. Secutarii take that cake, no contest, beating everything from Deathwing terminator spam to eldar bikespam.

>>51845238
Nah, no airbrush.

Khorne Red with Nuln Oil wash sounds about right.

Base Khorne Red, wash with Nuln Oil, layer back to Khorne Red?, and then highlight with ?

>>51845195
Hammerheads might do you justice with the railgun, and riptides with fusion blasters could work.

>>51845276
Is that accounting for mobility and range?

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From last thread, but out of curiosity, has there been any FAQ on the Castellans of the Imperium detachment on whether or not dedicated transports for troops get to have a chance of returning as well? As a black Templars player well before it came out, the thought of respawning Land Raider Crusaders turns me on.

>>51845142
It's almost like Orks are incredibly underpowered.

>>51845261
Well your main issue was running vanilla CSM. There's literally no reason to ever do that. You gain NOTHING by doing so, and you opt out of gaining powerful bonuses.

So, was him spamming invisability cheesy? Yes. But you don't get to complain about him outpacing you if you shot yourself in the knee before the race even started.

>>51845252
Don't get me wrong I love the ladies. But I really really hate metal models. The wear and tear from gaming with them is a pain in the ass.

>>51845301
See
>>51845063

>>51845191
I think the stock blue looks cool but the picture looks a bit better.

>>51845209
AdMech only have 13 units in total. Out of those, 8 are Infantry, the rest are very distinct looking Vehicles, even a Dragoon and Balistarii are very easy to differentiate and use the same chassis, or Kastelans/Tech-Priest Dominus.

The only things that look similar are the Infantry variants they have, so Ranger/Vanguard, Destroyer/Breacher, Infiltrator/Ruststalker and Fulgurite/Corpuscarii. Even amongst those, only the different mirror pieces look similar to each other due to using the same base and usually only carrying different guns, but not more so than different Crisis suit variants or Firewarrior variants or Eldar units wearing their Aspect armor or whatever is called with different equipment.

At least AdMech big stuff doesn't look like their smaller stuff scaled up, like Riptides and Wraithknights.

>>51845276
Secutarii are Elites. The only AdMech troops are Rangers, Vanguards, Destroyers and Breachers. Vanguards are probably the best "mob unit" that you are meant to use in large numbers but not always the best Troop choice available.

>>51845292
I'm not so keen on the Riptide due to its gross misrepresentation in the fluff in my opinion, as well as them being so rare that Jo'Sh'mo Sub-Cadre #012345 probably isn't going to have anything bigger than a Broadside walking knee-to-shoulder with the Fire Warriors.

>>51845316
I don't own the TL book cause spent money on premium hentai and too lazy to torrent it.

>>51845261
One thing to keep in mind is that you can't attach monstrous creatures to units.

>>51845288
Maybe try fire dragon bright.

>>51845261
>he had this Daemon Prince that was attaching and detaching off of it when needed.
Learn the rules first, then complain about cheesy.

>>51845320

Be a fool like me and convert them. Honestly at this point I almost wonder if I would have been better off buying metal models, but things are finally starting to come together now. I'll have a few squads finished by the end of the week if all goes well.

>>51845300
Yes. They gave them the basic skitarii profile, despite their absurd firepower, so you end up with something that's faster than most troops (crusader), more durable than most troops (their shield generators), has relentless, and their guns have 3 firing modes that make them effective against literally any infantry up to and including demon princes, while still being effective against blobs due to volume of fire. If you want the long form of the argument, check out their entry here https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Skitarii_(7E)#Elite . Note that they're Elites in the army list, but can be taken as troops with formations.

Yes, they're slightly slower than jetbikes, but they're faster than most troops while still being quite tough and dangerous, and comparatively cheap.

They're effective to the point of being broken.

>>51845347
Different anon here and just out of curiosity and laziness of searching for the exact rule:

Since you can't attach characters to units with MCs in them (like is the case with for example Kastelan Robots and a Tech-Priest), would you still be able to attach a theoretical MC Independant Character to a unit containing other MCs? Has such a situation even occured yet?

>>51845347
>>51845356
So he was cheating too. KEK. I was a bit skeptical but he knew rules better than I. We both have only played for about 6 months but still annoying.

>>51845343
Well then you're losing because you're lazy. There are a thousand places you can get it, and at least three places you can see the rules without downloading anything.

>>51845369
Eh, I think 36" range JSJ still beats that out.

>>51845380
An MC independent character could, but I don't believe there is one.

>>51845380

I do not undestand you question, but a tech priest can join kastellans if you use the formation for it.

At what point is playing a riptide wing socially acceptable? Faggots gonna complain and then play like 3 or 4 AV14 faggots. Let's be real, when is it ok?

>>51845369
>part of formations
>1d4chan as source

There are official rules and they never state anything of the likes:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Secutarii_Titan_Guard_Download.pdf

>>51845380
>>51845394
Slight correction, an MC independent could join a regular unit, but not another MC.

>>51845343
>tfw he can't find the pdf just by googling Traitor legions pdf
The Russians have everything

>>51845394
>Eh, I think 36" range JSJ still beats that out.
It objectively does not. Granted there are certain situations in which the added mobility will save the bikes, but unless you're on an apocalypse board, the bikes are only being to be able to run so far. Keep in mind that skitarii tend to walk forward as one giant line of death, so the bikes only have so many places to run. The gap is shrinking quickly every single turn (infantry movement, plus running, plus crusader). Skitarii along with tau are actually the best way to shut down any Eldar fucker who keeps bringing a bike cheese list.

>>51845408
>FW
>canon rules
KEK

>>51845407
The only people who are okay with it are the same people that are also playing a high/top tier army and bringing their strongest units.

Everyone else will be upset no matter what. Find some tourney players or only bring 1 Riptide.

>>51845441
>Secutarii
>Canon unit
TOP FUCKIN KEK

>>51845430
Wouldn't they just use the 48" movement to switch sides when they get close?

>>51845098
I think they're some of the coolest looking but I love the cloaks/hoods and tech-priest self augmentation stuff. Also as someone that likes IG but hates tank spam, they give me large numbers of infantry that don't rely on tanks.

>>51845453
>40k
>having canon
TOPPEST FUCKING POWER KEKS

>>51845389
>>51845417
Is this a good one?
https://www.scribd.com/document/336978697/Wh40k-Traitor-Legions-Codex-Supplement-7e

>>51845407
I've dealt with one. They're a complete pain in the ass but they can be handled.

>>51845468
>scribd
>instead of the gift of free Russians
Кeк!

>>51845445
Fine but that makes me somewhat regret having 2 riptides... Well then when is it socially acceptable to bring in 2 riptides? maybe run one in firebase support and the other in a hunter cadre?

>>51845467
>the concept of canonical truth
>in this world we live in
KEKKED MY SIDES TO FUCKING NEPTUNE

>>51845454
Sure, at which point they're either fucked because the Skitarii player stagger his lines, or because the army has reached the point where the close ranged shooting can hit your deployment zone and everything there is now dead so the long range shooting can now muder your bikes, or they get assaulted and pinned by something to hold them still for a turn until the rest of the army is done mopping up.

>>51845479
>>51845468
https://mega.nz/#F!9NchGZyZ!-V1LhJALxDp9Tw97WzEQGA

Or just be on /tg/ 1 hour a day.

Taufag here. Going to be playing a game soon-ish against necron. Trying a different tactic, going to be keeping stock gun drones on my vehicles and detaching them, along with several minimum squads of four drones running interference. How long can I expect drones to keep a destroyer locked in combat? I know against scarabs they trade fairly evenly.

>>51845468
Well it's low quality as fuck for one thing.

Seriously dude, just google the following words

"warhammer codex ru"

>Play Tau
>Bring Riptides and Stormsurges
>Roughly even winrate against Eldar, Chaos flavors, most SM codexes, and IK lists
>But people complain about my big guys

>Decide to stop bringing them because I want my opponent to have fun too
>I can no longer beat any of the aforementioned codexes, nearly a 0% winrate and games where I get tabled before Turn 4 are common
>Have trouble against Orks, Nids, and DE, they beat me more than I beat them unless I coincidentally bring a hard counter list

What am I supposed to do as Tau?

>>51845491
I don't really see why you guys are even comparing which is the better Troop choice at this point when Secutarii have no rules ever asigning them as Troops.

>>51845509
Fag.

>>51845509
>playing Tau
Kek!

>>51845484
>the abstract idea of thought defining your perception as it applies to internal information
>in a 4th dimensional space
OUR RELATIVE PLANE CAN NO LONGER HOLD THESE KEKS

>>51845523
>he called him a faggot
TOP FUCKING KEK

>>51845509
Lay down and cry, the only units that keep tau viable are cancer

>>51845509
>play most meta variant of army
>do good and win
>people adjust accordingly, even low-tier codices
>decide to switch to casual lists
>get stomped by the now cutthroat local meta
It's not really a surprise

>>51845509
Kroot, Vespid, and Fire Warriors only

Devil Fish to get more Kroot into position

>>51845483
Bring 2 see how it goes, but it's like this anon said >>51845509 people are going to complain no matter what.

I don't know why people hate the Tau so much even though they aren't the current best. There's just something about a Riptide or Stormsurge that rumps all the roasts. My guess is it's because they aren't fun to play against even if you win.

>>51845517
Because you're totally correct, and I forgot that secutarii are elites, but I'm anonymous so I'm not held accountable to honesty, so instead of admitting it and moving on I can keep acting like a ridiculous cunt.

>>51845539
>all Tau is cancer
LMAO MY KEKING SIDES JUST EXPLODED

>>51845509
Drop the stormsurge you massive faggot. Keep a single riptide unless its 1850+ points.

And play smart. Even though this is low quality bait there is no reason proper positioning and use of markerlights shouldn't secure you a win every time.

>>51845560
>stormsurges are OP
Kek!

>>51845554
>somebody admitting they got something wrong instead of starting a shitposting spree in /40kg/
Well this is a rare situation indeed.

>>51845509
I'm not a tau player, but don't they have some truly bullshit formations with their new stealth battlesuit thing? Plus, markelight + firewarriors leads to some of the most point efficient shooting in the game. Plus you've got kroot conga lines, loads of auxiliary forces, lots of deepstriking, and solid counters for pretty much every cheese list that exists. The only think you can't fuck over is psychic. desu senpai your codex is probably more spoiled for choice than anyone save the vanilla marines, and perhaps CSM now that they have like 11 books to work with.

>>51845550
Yeah I played a guy 1200 points the other day and I brought one riptide and all I had was 1 riptide with 2 wounds and a ghostkeel at turn 5. Pretty much tabled considering he had like 4 obliterators, a warpsmith, and his land raider still on the board

we've gone too far

>SoBcucks get Celestine as a consolation prize before they get squatted next year
Jet-pressured fountains of cum leave my penis at accelerating speeds.

>>51845503
You mean http://wh40klib.ru/codex/ with no new codex update whatsoever?

Why do you even google for codex when you're here? just search the fucking archive for link, it's not that hard.

>>51845502
Destroyers have 1A at WS and S 4.

>>51845585
>he thinks there is such a thing as going far
Kekus maximus!!!

>>51845048
>>51845072
>>51845098
>>51845142
>>51845237
>>51845587
>all we need now is for someone to mention Celestine isn't SoB and then everyone starts circlejerking to Leviathans to the tune of the Night Lords theme song

Okay, is there some particular reason I'm getting posting errors every single time I try to post an image?

>>51845550
I hate Tau because they don't make sense fluff-wise, are bigger sues than Cato Sicarius, and they shun glorious melee combat.

So how do I build and play a competitive but not cheesy/relatively fluffy Black Templar list and at what point cost is that the most feasible?

I want to being Land Raiders and Marine blobs but no matter what I try I can never make it work ever. I even struggle against Nids and Orks, for crying out loud. Granted, those tend to be Flyer spam and Walker/Bike spam versions, but my point still stands.

>>51845601
BBW Sistahs.

>>51845592
That's just the one I used to use. Nowadays I don't generally bother with that, as I just get digital copies of every codex as they come out from a friend.

>>51845601
Amazing lmao, top kek indeed. Also Walkers aren't vehicles, Kek!

>>51845599
Thank you. That sounds promising.

>>51844961
Can anyone post pics?

I decided to add a Knight to my 1850pts IG list, does this make me a dick?

>>51845343
>buying porn
>2017

>>51845623
Crons in general are pretty easy to tarpit outside of flayed ones.

>>51845607
>bigger sues than Cato Sicarius

Okay, pepper thine angus for an autism marinade.

Cato Sicarius is NOT A GOD DAMN MARY SUE! You want to know why? Because Mary Sues are GOD DAMN PERFECT. Cato Sicarius is an egotistical, petty, glory-hunting CODEX FUCKING DEVIANT who wouldn't even give up his title of chapter champion when he ascended to the position of captain, thus resulting in one of the Ultramarine's only breaks with the codex. He's a deeply flawed, annoying little shit, and in order to be a Mary Sue you're supposed to be so loved that everyone in-universe can't stop talking about you, which is obviously not Cato because Tigurius, Agemman, and even Marneus Fucking Calgar are all SICK OF HIS SHIT.

HE'S NOT A MARY SUE HE PISSES OFF EVERYONE WITH A DICK, AND EVERYONE WHO PLAYS ULTRAMARINES EVEN MORE!!!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>51845645
>>51845605
Yeah, can't post images right now either.

>>51845592
I don't go there for my Russians anymore. VK is where it's at man.

/int/, too.

>>51845662
>tfw was able to trigger Cato isn't a Sue anon
Noice! But yeah, I know. I was just using the most famous UM as an example.

>>51845509
>can't win without cancer
You're just a shit player anon

>>51845662
Calm your tits, Alfabusa. No need to advertise your fanfic series even more. Though considering how things are going right now I wonder how much longer that shit will even stay fanfic snd not be plain canon.

>>51845607
I think they are fine lore wise and okay on the table, but the lack of close combat is always boring with any army. That's why IG parking lots or IG gunlines are boring too.

I play IG, but I like to fire and advance and eventually meet in the middle for some close quarters shooting and then mob up and beat things to death. High mobility armies are annoying too, but at least they meet me halfway or a little in my deployment zone so I can manage to catch them pew pew then stab stab.

>>51845668
I don't know if this is Hiro's fault or if Moot didn't fix the servers before hand. Most likely this is /qa/'s fault for being babies about getting raided by /jp/ and then by /a/ and /s4s/.

>>51845673
>Cato isn't a Sue anon
Uh... No? I've never freaked out like this before. If someone else has done that in the past, it's probably just another annoyed ultramarine player like myself who gets angry that every single character that gets written for us has a personality consisting solely of "THE BEST EVAR", then when we finally do get a deeply flawed little shit, people still accuse him of being a sue.

>>51845689
>alfabusa
I wish.

>>51845708
>look mom, I used as many of the chan words as I could! Now they won't think I'm a newfag!

Bruh.

>>51845607
>they don't make sense fluff-wise
I don't see it. What have they done that doesn't work?

>>51845659
thank fuck I haven't encountered those yet

>>51845721
I'm being serious. Take a look at /qa/.

>>51845607
Melee is stupid. It's supposedly the future and you gotta justify swords. You are the one that makes no sense. Fag

>>51845733
You're not likely too. I've never seen another cron player with them and I only have them because I have the old ones.

>>51845721
>thinking people care about fitting in on an anonymous imageboard
This isn't Plebbit, faggot.

>>51845711
I like UM too, I just like playing up the memes because I've learned to roll with them, anon.

Besides, we have the Spiritual Liege. I5 S8 AP2 at initiative, baby!

>>51845745
Huh.

>>51845753
You are so boring. This isn't a normal futuristic universe. They do some old school things in this game that we don't even do today and that's the whole point. It's a fantasy setting in space. It's exactly why people say Tau are out of place.

I agree, they are out of place, but I actually think the Tau are super cool, so I don't mind.

>>51845753
Melee has always been a part of the setting and is pretty heavily integrated into it, though, 40k wasn't, isn't and will never be even remotely realistic or hard-science in any real capacity. That being said, I don't agree with the other anon that the Tau don't make sense, but I still have serious gripes with them from a lot of writing perspectives, at least 6th Edition onwards.

>>51845689
TTS was a mistake

>>51845766
Plus daddy is waking up!
*insert cute excited anime girl that would be here if 4chan weren't having a seizure*

>>51845693
You know what's even more annoying than Tau gunlines?

Marine players doing gunlines. Guy at my store rund a DA Demi with a drop pod Dreadnought, a 10-man Assault Squad with Chaplain and uses the entire rest of his guys as heavy weapon platforms, setting them up as far back as possible with Plasma Cannons, Missile Launchers and Lascannons. Then he just drops the Nought on some objective to get it due ObSec even when moving, tarpits anything advancing with the Assault squad and then just eventually, in turn 3+, starts shifting his weapon platforms to any points near the table edges once the enemy units are either all but dead due zo shooting or tied in combat with the Dreadnought and Assault squad.

It's fucking boring go fight like that AND goes against the army playstyle, but he gets away with it most of the time because others either can't bring enough squads to just overflood the board and if they do his Assault blob just cuts off half of the map due to its size.

>>51845578
I appreciate your post and while I am not that anon. My issue is that most people I play will just bring in land raiders or leviathan dreadnaughts. Basically forcing me not only to bring in more fire power but I can't even kill their big guy most of the time. Those things are nice but the end result tends to be ugly for me

>>51845721
They're quite literally TOO small to be of any threat to any major faction. There are xenos empires in the fluff that have larger spheres of influence than the Tau, yet they're almost never mentioned. A single Hive World has more humans in it than all of the Tau empire. This is my main gripe.

My other problem with the Tau is SUITSSUITSSUITS rather than the Federation of Allied Xenos Empires they're supposed to be. Of which there are like 9 other species, iirc, including the Kroot and Vespid and Nicassar and Demiurg. Actually I think it might've been 19? Anyways, they're criminally underused and underdeveloped in an attempt to spam more SUITS.

>>51845803
Gunline armies in general aren't very fun to fight because they're so static. It's several turns of moving up and getting shot and it's always very clear who the winner is by that point.

>>51845792
>implying Robert Gullman won't just proclaim Marneus Calgar his true heir and Spiritual Liege

>>51845509
Not sure why people are calling your post bait. It might be me being new since I started playing in December but I feel like the only thing that keeps a game even remotely close is the riptide. That is especially if everything goes ok between nova and gets hot. Most of the complaining seems unjustified especially when people state all the cheese they are going to bring in a supposed answer to 1 stupid riptide. The community seems mostly autistic to me

>>51845819
>>51845708
>>51845745
Fucking kek shit I still can't post images to demonstrate my mirth

>>51845803
>Marine players doing gunlines
It's actually pretty fluffy if you're playing Imperial Fists or Ultramarines.

>>51845819
Alright, that makes sense.

>>51845807
But Land Raiders are one of the weakest units in every single Codex they are in. In low point games they take up so much of your list that they will never manage to kill enough to make their points back and can usually be safely ignored while in larger games you can always fit in some S 10 or Haywire or Grav weapons to just Glance them to death or Immobilize/Stun them before even being able to deliver their payload (let alone kill enough to be worth it).

I hope they make the rules as simple as age of sigmar

I also hope they shake up the setting as much. 30 years of fluff is too dense for new people to get into, they need to have a reset.

>>51845803
Ugh, that sounds so annoying to fight. I hate armies like that. Long range armies with speed bump throw away units.

>>51845843
This. Gunlines and alpha strike armies are the least fun.

>>51845849
I think grandpappy smurf is just going to stay in the fortress of hera and not ever go outside because of how much his damn kids let the whole universe go to hell.

The whole setting is going to end with him, Bjorn, and the Emps sitting on terra bitching about how much better the good old days were as the eye of terror slowly expands to devour the universe.

>>51845807
Riptides aren't even the firepower option. You get as much damage out of a two man crisis squad with plasma.

Riptides are the long-range and stupidly durable option. It literally allows you to not care about positioning or cover or anything because you can have it sit in a corner and not die to anything short of an entire army.

If you can only win while using Riptides, that really is just a sign you need to get good.

>>51845851
Never had I foreseen /jp/ of all boards bullying another board. It's Justice.
>laughing_space_marine.jpeg

>>51845865
Last tournament at my store had that guy, an UM player (didn't catch his list but he had Land Speeders and Grav Centurions on the board in 850), 2 Tyranid players with similar lists using 1 Flyrant and either focusing on Termagant spam or using a Hydra and trying to rush objectives, an Ork player with only Biked and Walkers and 2 Gretchin to have come in from Reserves later to cap points while hiding behind bushes, a Grey Knight player with a Dreadknight and some of their Troops and me with my Black Templars trying out if I can cheese something by having an ObSec Land Raider.

Guess who was almost tied for first place.

>>51845923
Black Legion can do it better and cheaper.

>>51845942
I know, but Black Legion aren't my bros.

>>51845952
They used to be.

>>51845958
;_;

>>51845952
At least Black Legion does one thing right, and it's not worship the Emperor. You're a very odd chapter, you know that?

>>51845819
While I see your point, I feel like your view on the tau is slightly wrong. Been reading a ton of stuff about them including codex and 1d4chan. Their empire is far bigger than you give it credit to be. Now if you were talking about the fire caste alone then you might be closer to true. Even then their allied races are far smaller than that of their mainline forces. The big suits are supposed to be used only in dire situations since it takes the air caste so long to deliver them. Kroot and the other races are more behind the scenes or limited to front line cannon fodder in most cases. Which seems to be fitting considering you get 10 for 60 points

>>51845850
Because hating Tau is the hot meme right now.
Tournament results don't matter.
Mathhammer doesn't matter.
Tier lists don't matter.
Other codexes don't matter.
The fact that these people are losing to a half dozen other codexes just as hard doesn't matter.
If you want to be hip and cool at your local game shop, you hate Tau. You gotta fit in.

so if gun lines are annoying how about fast light skimmers that dance out of range? that's the plan for my eldar

>>51846001
>1d4chan
Don't trust a word of it. It's full of shitty, shitty outdated memes, personal opinions and outright fanon all mixed together into one glorious shit soup.

Its only use is getting a rough idea about how /tg/ feels about shit and by that I mean how the autist population of /tg/ think they felt about shit about six years ago

>>51845995
Apparently not as odd and different as Blood Angels, though.

>impyling the Emperor is not a god
I'd call you a heretic but you'll see the truth eventually.

>>51846001
>1d4chan
No, never go on there again. That place is why we still have Ward haters and a whole bunch of outdated memers.

>>51846019
>Because hating Tau is the hot meme right now.
Why is that? Where did the hate start, I mean? Is this just a response to Fish of Fury, or is it from MWGD's longstanding hate of the blue fish, or what's the deal?

>>51845892
I realized this after a few games that it's better to try to use him as a distraction while I set myself up to get better shots or to protect my main units since I have been running buffmander for it's point efficiency as well as finally getting the optimized stealth cadre up for the first time on Sunday since I finished my ghostkeel Saturday night . Ang advice for strategy as a tau noob? I struggle a ton against high toughness and that's most people that I play

>>51846029
Nigga, it's quite literally canon that almost every other SM chapter sees you guys as a bunch of weirdos for worshipping the Emperor. Out of all 1,000 chapters, less than 30, iirc, worship him.

>>51846001
>>51846025
The tactics pages are also useful. Not the kind of thing you'd want to build your own list off of, but good to look through another army before you play them, and get an idea of how they work.

>>51846020
Gunlines, alpha strike armies and unkillable super-mobile armies are all just taking the core concepts of the game and cranking them up so far that it stops being fun to play against them.

>>51846043
The tactics pages are fucking awful. Never have I seen someone shill their favorite faction so hard.

At absolute best they MIGHT give you an idea of how the internal balancing of a given codex works out, but I doubt even that. Have you seen the CSM tactica? Apparently there are literally no bad units, footslogging Princes are fine, cult Marines are hot shit and the Defiler is awesome. They also have an incredible hardon for Forgefiends for some reason. Not just on the tactics page, see https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Forgefiend too. It's bizarre.

Things that GW SEVERELY overestimates

>AV14
>Hammer of Wrath
>Soul Blaze
>IWND
>AP3

>>51846042
Let our cousins indulge in their denial if it keeps their morale and will strong, for we will righten their lack of zeal and reverance of the Emperor by making up for it tenfold.

And considering our tactics and doctrines and everything aren't unusual enough to not see us in the same vein as most of our brethren, according to GW, we can't be THAT out of the ordinary, now can we?

>>51846079
Some of those pages haven't been updated since the books came out.

>>51846053
Alpha strike is what? Like wulfen running formation to get in melee turn 1?

>>51846090
And Fear

>>51846037
Well, I can't speak for whatever units you have or what you're facing, but the solution I use for high toughness stuff is Kroot snipers and a Drone sniper team.

Alternatively, if you mean vehicles, it may be a simple matter of including more fusion blasters or the like. I don't run much of that myself since my meta is less vehicle heavy.

I tend to run infantry-focused Tau though, so this advice might not translate as well for your army.

>>51846096
Shit like Skyhammer immediately dropping in out of fucking nowhere turn 1 and killing half of your army while locking the other half down in combat before the game even really started.

>>51846090
>Soul Blaze
?

>>51846090
>AV14
If Haywire and Grav didn't exist it would be decent. Not great but decent.
>Hammer of Wrath
Agreed
>Soul Blaze
Why is this even a rule?
>IWND
It's alright.
>AP3
They are as retarded as mathhammer autists dude. They slap AP3 on a gun and cost it as if it kills Marines instantly when in fact all it does is wound on 3s and force them to use a slightly worse cover save.

>>51846090
Eh, I don't think they overestimate IWND, and it's actually kind of useful in some cases. It also rarely seems like it's that costly.

>>51846094
Nigga, even the Chaos mocks you for doing the one thing that caused the HH in the first place. I'm not even kidding, an Iron Warrior meets his old friend who became a BT Dread and mocks him for this.

>implying BT actually need their own codex
>implying BT aren't weird because they cannot into wizardry unlike literally every other chaoter in the Imperium

What the fuck were they thinking with this thing

Its like they gave a guy a picture of it and told him to write rules in 5 minutes or less

>>51846090
And Crusader squads in Formations as Tactical replacements.

Tried just about all formations out, none of them were even remotely broken by it.

>>51846035
hmm i think sometime around their 5th update i believe. the riptide being a MC, their plot armor, anime influence, lack of melee, and counterpoint to the imperium don't help

>>51846096
drop pods in your deployment grav hitting everything to death. artillery blowing up your guys turn 1.

>>51846053
my eldar won't be that hard hitting but i see your point.

>>51846090
Might not quite be overestimation, but they seem to think that Strikedown on melee attacks is somehow useful.

>>51846137
With what thing?

>>51846137
Yeah, I totally agree. Just dumb moves by everyone in that situation.

>>51846138
Its not that they think it will be broke, they just dont give a shit. Crusader squads will be removed next edition i guarantee it. Black Templars will be reduced to chapter tactics and one special character

>>51846138
Wouldn't a Gladius be pretty broken with 6 free Land Raider Crusaders?

>>51846132
>implying IW wasn't just incredibly bitter that he didn't win

>>51846173
Granted, that is the one thing where it might be, but IIRC the Gladius says Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback.

>>51846138
I still dont get why they were left out from Angels of Death, its like they want to give them something but it never comes out and eventually they are left gathering dust. BT got rolled back and they're STILL the fucking worst and as outdated as they were in 5th, its ridiculous.

>>51846150
>>51846151
It wa ssupposed to be a gorkanaut

But 4chan has decided I cant post pictures for whatever reason

>>51846197
4chan has decided that EVERYONE can't post pictures in every thread on every board. Fuck if I know why.

But back on topic, what's wrong with the Gorkanaut? I've never fielded or fought one.

>>51846190
Hey, at least we got Warlord Traits, right?

Oh wait, 1 is extremely situational and 3 of them become obsolete if you use the one formation that Back Templars are featured in because the Formation bonuses give you that stuff.

>>51846206
>what's wrong with the Gorkanaut?

Too expensive and not killy enough, the weird transport capacity is kind of an issue.

>>51846206
HIROSHIMOOT

>>51846206
It was put into the game before they decided to give everyone knights, so it's stuck being a knight-sized non-superheavy

>>51846239
>the weird transport capacity
>roll 5d6 and divide by 3 rounded up to determine transport capactiy

>>51846206
It's a land raider with worse guns, armor and speed that costs more.

>>51846190
how would you fix black templars then? my guess is there's no interest in them from the devs.

>>51846206
it's suppose to be like the wraithknight, a big meaty unit to promote the new ork book. well it's just a big walker and expensive.

>>51846259

And that's saying something because Land Raiders are shit.

>>51846263
>how would you fix black templars then? my guess is there's no interest in them from the devs.

Just give them World Eaters' rules from Traitor Legion. "Black Templar Imperial Hounds" would help a lot too.

Is there an easy formula for remembering what does damage to what armor?

>>51846090

I agree with that list. I also feel like they overestimate

- Zealot
- Adamantium Will
- Deep Strike (without modifiers)
- Outflank (without modifiers)
- 5++
- 3+ armor

>>51846263
>>51846277
They pretty much do just need something like what Traitor legions all got. Give them a list of warlord traits, 6 relics, and at least one formation that actually makes use of crusader squads and lets them Black Tide across a table.

>>51846286

It's weapon strength + 1D6 and if it matches the AV it glances. Melta and some other stuff get +2D6.

>>51846239
>not putting Nobz in your Naut

>>51846290
There's nothing wrong with Zealot unless you're paying through the nose for it, which most factions don't.

Deep Strike is also a useful tool. Even with no scatter or mishap mitigation, any short ranged shooting unit benefits immensely from Deep Strike. Crisis suits and Termicide come to mind. Sure they may not win tournaments but they are fine tactics in casual and semi-comp play.

Agree on everything else though.

>>51846277
>"Black Templar Imperial Hounds" would help a lot too.
WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY

>when that's actually kind of canon
Granted, there are *officially* none of Angron's sons in the BT, Sigismund, the founder of the BT spend a fuck ton of time alongside the World Eaters before the whole horus humbug, and if there *were* any loyalist WE kicking around, they'd likely know where to go to find friendship and glorious melee.

>>51846339
>There's nothing wrong with Zealot unless you're paying through the nose for it, which most factions don't.

Almost every way you gain zealot is through opportunity cost, whether it's by taking a shit formation over a good one, or a shit HQ over a good one. Riptides and Wraithknights and Necron Wraiths and TWC and Jetbikes and Warp Spiders don't naturally come with Zealot. There's a reason for that.

>>51846263
>how would you fix Black Templars
Inside the combined codex using a supplement or in general, with a whole separate codex?

If it can just be a supplement detachment/formation, then something that gives them access to their old vows, hatred by default and generally giving their Chapter Tactics something else in addition to what they have.
Some detachment bonuses could include:
>Hatred for entire detachment
>Furious Charge on everything
>cheaper Land Raiders for Crusader Squads
>FNP/Stubborn for Infantry outside of combat
>allowing to run and charge to not force vehicles on them
>Crusaders, Vindicators and Vanguard Veterans as a Core Formation to be used in said detachment, having some part of the aforementioned rules
>allowing Crusader squads in all neutral formations that can be used in SM Detachments to replace Tacticals

Any anon have actual Flesh hounds and able to tell me if they're the size of gryph hounds or able to provide a pic next to a marine?

>>51846340
>implying any remaining loyalist WE wouldn't join Carcharadons

>>51846339
>Deep Strike is also a useful tool.
>he's never lost a game because nothing came on until turn 4

There's a dozen GK DS batreps on youtube that end in utter failure because naked DS is unreliable

>>51846356
>"Lord Reaper, the test results from this Astartes say that he hails from a...unsavory lineage."
>WE revs dual chainaxes
>"He's in."

>>51846348
Hefty opportunity cost IS paying through the nose, anon. No, it's not worth taking a shit formation for, but it very much is worth paying 25 points to add a Priest to your footslogging deathstar if such a thing even exists anymore for example.

>>51846361
>Deep Striking your whole army
I didn't say to do that.

>>51846356
Is it really unfair to say? The Carcaradons were off doing their own thing, compare that to Sigismund and his boys, who many of the world eaters personally knew and liked, and that was mutual. If your dad freaks out and you have to leave the house, are you going to go stay with your best bro who's also pissed at his dad and is offering to let you crash at his place, or are you going to hit up the psychopathic younger brother of those weird emo kids you know?

>>51846352
I think Gryph hounds are slightly smaller. They have a 40mm base and flesh hounds use a 50mm one. I don't think anyone would care if you used them for a conversion though.

>>51846263
>how would you fix black templars then?

Fucking easy; Give them their old rules back, and I mean OLD AS BALLS rules back

>Righteous Zeal makes a consolidation move after any casualty, can consolidate into other units and engage in an assault
>Fearless in Assaults
>Emperor's Champion gets their Vows back, rework their buffs to 1)PE in Shooting OR Assaults, must choose during deployment, 2) Furious Charge 3)Counter-Attack &+d3 to sweeping advances 4)Scout and Adamantium Will
>Cenobyte Servitors grant +1A and all Chaplains can take them, are wargear instead of units so chaplains can join units. Relic Cenobytes give +1A in a 6'' bubble.
>6 Relics, 6 USEFUL warlord traits and 3 Formations unique to BT

Fucking done, if GW wishes to sell new kits then make a Sword Brethren unit and a plastic servitor kit.

>>51846381
>Hefty opportunity cost IS paying through the nose, anon.

Then I disagree with your assertion that Zealot isn't overcosted.

>>51846384

Only issue with WEs joining the nomad fleets are the nails. The non-nail War Hounds are known to be extinct since the Blackshield IC is the last one.

>>51846398
>all that useless shit

What you really meant to say was Terminator missile spam.

>>51846398
I should really sit down some day and write down some of these suggestions that anons keep listing whenever BTs are mentioned for fixing and put together a homebrew codex/supplement for them to use with my pals.

>>51845819
>They're quite literally TOO small to be of any threat to any major faction.

So Space Wolves are fine. An entire codex when they have only ONE system and less than 2000 men?

Fuck, are you just disqualifying any Chapter? Supplements for specific warbands? Or any specific Guard regiment? They might not be a threat to any major faction, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to play them.

As for the focus on suits, I'll actually agree with you there. Tau's alien auxiliaries are definitely criminally underused. They're GW's opportunity to introduce loads of weird new units into the game to make gameplay even more exciting but they're just being left high and dry. However, I don't think that's a reason for Tau not to exist.

Where is the rule/chart for GSC allies?

Looked through the entire codex twice. Google made things more confusing.

>>153771349
Oh come on.

>>51846411
>Only issue with WEs joining the nomad fleets are the nails.
Uh. Have you MET the black templars? There's a lot of common ground there, especially during the scouring, when they lost their god damn minds.

>>51846386
Thanks, anon

>>51846404
Its cost varies. Sometimes the price is reasonable, because it is actually decent rule, unlike Soul Blaze or Fear.

>>51846384
Technically it would be the psychopathic older brother, since the Carcharodons were Terran.

>>51846431
Yes! That sounds pretty cool Anon. Think I may start small piecing some Templars over time.

>>51846498
That's true.

>>51845032
And at night all the Nids come out to play...

>>51845509
>riptides and stormsurges
>plural

Gee I wonder what step one should be

So why the fuck are there no Phosphor Flamers? Phosphor burns and could probably be used like Napalm in 40k. Also, a Flamer with Luminagen would be pretty fucking cool.

>>51846598
too hot

burn your fingers

>>51845658
>not getting a joke
>2017

>>51846598
I assume because it's meant to be an analog to real life phosphorus.

>>51845509
Your problem is you never learned how to actually play the game because you were being carried by stupidly OP units. Now that you've taken away the crutch you have to fucking get gud.

>>51844961
I have a blob of 30 Guardsmen with a Priest, but I'm not sure what to equip them with. 3 Lascannons? 3 Autocannons and 3 Grenade Launchers? 3 Flamers?

>>51846565
They mostly come out at night.

Mostly.

>>51846605
>implying robots would care
A Phosphor Heavy Flamer and Hydraulic Claw would make for a pretty sweet third option for Kastelan Robots.

How do I make a cheesy Ork list so that I can beat my friend's cheesy lists they constantly make.

>>51846440
It says it right in their appendix where the faction special rules are, you dunce. They're AoC with Guard and Tyranids, CtA with everyone else.

>>51846630
Best bet is a shitload of Walkers and Bikes in a CAD with Gretchins as your troops. Treat Walkers like they're regular infantry and only use the Gretchin to hide behind impossibly small cover out of sight to secure points.

>>51846632
Well shit. I've looked at that specific page a dozen times and never noticed.

Thanks anon. Sorry for being retarded.

>>51846598
Phosphex is too dangerous to use. It goes for the closest living thing reagardless of faction and doesn't dissipate over time. Besides, the recipe for it was destroyed way beck when on account of how evil it is to use it. Would have worked wonders against the nids though.

>>51846630
Ally in a renegade knight, but make it propa orky

>>51846642
>he's actually recommending Kanz, Dreads and Nauts
I kek'd hard

>>51846565
Anon wasn't fucking around, nids have one of the largest but quietest followings out of the factions.

>>51846630
Speed freaks. Consider bikes with your bikes and nob bikes on bikes, with walkers to back it up. Allies are good too, but only if you dek 'em out rite and propa with some orky bitz

>>51846642
Deffdreads or Kans for walkers? Bikers, Nob Bikers, or Deffkoptas for bikes? I have like 3 kans and 2 dreads, and 3 koptas but I could probably find some good deals on Ebay for cheap bikers etc.

>>51846670
I bet it's a ton of people having them as a secondary army because they like them but don't really ever use or talk about them.

>>51846674
Nob bikers are garbage so avoid those, but bikers and deffkoptas are good.

>>51846613
if you have to explain the joke and no one laughs; it's not a joke nor funny

>>51846702
If you don't get a joke then you're probably stupid.

>>51846698
>but don't really ever use or talk about them.
Pretty much this. I wish my Tyranids were worth using but they havent been since 5th ed, and I'm tired of talking about it because after so many years you just cant be assed anymore, its just depressing that Cruddace still hasn't been fired over it.

>>51846711
Knock Knock.

>>51846734
>tfw the current Tyranid situation is so deplorable that even 5th edition looks like heaven in retrospect

>>51846745
w-whos there?

>>51846711
kek

>>51846758
The brick.

>>51846734
Genestealer cults are top shelf right now.

Ordered some Killa Kan feet (the ones with two toed in the front) for a coversion using Ironstrider legs. I'll probably find some way to attach them, but are they actually decently sized for the legs or justas stilt-ish as the default feet?

>>51846758
b-baka

I know people here complain about a riptide wing but is a ghostkeel wing considered acceptable? It really seems like a waste of points to field so many GKs in a game but maybe people here have had a ton of success with it so whatever

>>51846762
>>51846776
Shut up. There's a point to this exercise and I don't want you spoiling it.

>>51846758
Mark.

>>51846767
Which is awesome and also notable that they weren't written by the guy who did the last two Tyranid dexes.

>>51846778
Never played as or against Tau but aren't Riptides, Stormsurges and Ghostkeels the big three units they have that people bitch about?

>>51846778
Ghostkeels are less obnoxious, so long as it isn't in the Optimized Stealth formation. The big thing is that Ghostkeels are much shorter range, are more vulnerable to enemies getting close, and picking off their drones makes them highly vulnerable.

>>51846767
Maybe in the meta of four months ago, but they aren't really winning games against the hot new meme lists.

>>51846784
My post was to highlight that jokes that are only funny with prior context are still jokes, but if you're going to be like this them fuck you.

>>51846778
>It really seems like a waste of points to field so many GKs in a game but maybe people here have had a ton of success with it so whatever

This sentence also applies to Grey Knights.

It hurts...

>>51846778
If it seems like a waste of points you can at least rest easy knowing your opponent wont have any objections

>>51846809
>not pictured: the spoilered crying seal image this fag always posts when discussing this topic

>>51846807
And my post was to highlight that >>51846711 assuming that someone is stupid because they don't get a joke is retarded. It's easy to tell a joke someone doesn't get, and that doesn't make them retarded, it just means you told a joke they happen to not get.

What do you think is the most cancerous formation in the game? How about the best designed?

>>51846019
>Tournament results don't matter.

All the Taufags claiming Tau never do well in tournaments when they've been top 3 for multiple months and have outplaced Space Marines.

>>51846845
Eh... I'm going to say Decurion, because it kicked off this trend of ludicrous formation bonuses. Kind of like how you know Superman isn't the most OP character in all of fiction, but he kind of started the trend of modern media characters who are so powerful that power almost ceases to matter; not the *most* cancerous, but the original cancer.

>>51846818
It's a penguin and it looks like image uploading is broken.

>>51846845
FUCK the Infernal Tetrad. Let's make annoying ass HQ's that take more than a turn of focusing to even think about shaving off a wound EVEN STRONGER. AND THERE'S FOUR OF THEM.

Just bought 15 Custodes, a Contemptor-Galatus, and a Caladius Grav Tank with Inferno.

Goodbye $300.

>>51846810
>Taufag's opinion on waste of points

Those dumb niggers think Riptides aren't overpowered, undercosted, and think they have shitty firepower.

>>51846845
riptide wing, because it removed tax units on a model that was only weak because of tax units

>>51846859
Decurion isn't a Formation, it's a Formation-based Detachment.

>>51846845
Riptide Wing is pretty clearly the most cancerous.

Best designed is an interesting question though. I know people are going to give me hate for this but I want to say Skyhammer - it makes an otherwise shitty unit usable (Assault Marines), it's fluffy and cinematic as hell, and 90% of the problem with it being OP is due to grav being OP, not the Formation itself.

I feel like it's important to mention that I don't even play Space Marines.

>>51846861
Khorne and Slaanesh Princes aren't very durable, and Nurgle and Tzeentch Princes, whole durable, are costed like super heavies.

>>51846845
Riptide wing.

I like the Pinion Demi-Company. Does a good job having mediocre units work together.

Anons, I feel kinda depressed right now.

I absolutely with a passion detest summoning, or anything that gives you wargear or units for free, but I love the Word Bearers legion and can't bring myself to play counts-as with their legion rules. I just can't. It feels wrong. But if I don't take advantage of summoning, the only real benefit I'm getting is the free VotLW. And I hate that. I look at the other legion rules and feel immensely jealous at the fact they get all this cool stuff and I don't. And I hate that.

>>51846845
Anything that gives free wargear or units or bonuses to the Psyker phase.

>>51846899
Summon Bloodletters.

>>51846899
Maybe look up their 30k rules and see if your local meta will let you run those?

>>51846845
I would say Riptide Wing for most cancer. Tyranids started formations to begin with, and Necrons got to the point where they were super strong, but the Riptide wing is the defining one where they removed all the tax units and just made it straight value for spam purposes.

>>51846928
>Tyranids started formations to begin with

what was the first formation?

>>51846928
>Tyranids started formations to begin with
...no there were definitely other Formations released before nids.

>>51846936
I thought the first were the CSM Helbrutes dataslate ones.

>>51846854
>they've been top 3 for multiple months
Pure Tau haven't. It's all allied Riptide Wings.
>have outplaced Space Marines
But they haven't. Vanilla Marines maybe (but I doubt even that, given the facts that grav is everywhere in Marine lists and shits on Tau heavy suits) but Marine sub-flavors are top-notch, specifically Dark Angels (who are basically just Marines+ in this shooting edition, and anything they lack over vanilla is patched over with an allied formation) and Space Wolves (mostly for barkbarkstar, which did very well in the recent LVO when allied with the former).

Tau are not what they used to be in the competitive scene, but what they are is a fucking meme. Right now, Tau are the cool thing to hate, the reason being that Taufags are by and large incredibly insufferable WAACunts. Just because Riptide Wing and HRC are not winning tournaments does not make them okay to spam or fun to deal with in the casual metas these problem players frequent.

>>51846845
Skyhammer, Gladius or WarConvo, probably the latter when it comes down to it. Essentially, anything that provides a plethora of free shit or has fucking retarded buffs. Riptide Wing doesn't make the top three, but it's also a good example, being a formation that takes excellent units with no tax and then buffs them even further.

Shadowstrike Kill Team, The Raven Guard specific Battle Company but only if not part of a Gladius, or one of many formations from Traitor Legions. Basically any formation that takes a group of decent to subpar units and provides bonuses that allow them to synergize well.

>>51846861
The meme penguin was my second guess.

>>51846899
>hates summoning daemons
>chose Word Bearers
confusedblackguywithquestionmarks.jpg

>>51846936
>>51846939
I guess it would be more accurate to say Tyranids were the first ones with a bunch of formations for a bunch of different things in the army. They had a dataslate supplement for it if I recall.

It was a big deal when it happened and made Nids top tier for 5 minutes when they were the only ones with Objective Secured on a Gargoyle formation.

>>51846961
>It was a big deal when it happened and made Nids top tier for 5 minutes when they were the only ones with Objective Secured on a Gargoyle formation.
This was literally never even close to top tier.

Formations need to fuck off

Getting free rules for taking a combination of models is fucking retarded and does nothing but encourage cookie cutter builds

>>51846861
Boy, i can't wait to play against my faggot friend new tetrad. When 2 flying iron arm wielding, instadeath jinking, invul rerollin, 30 warp chargin is not enough.

>>51846845
The individual cron formations are a pretty good example of what formations should be (Outside of RP in the harvest formation).

>>51846981
When done right it encourages fluffy builds over spamming the same bland WAAC shit and grants cool new synergies, or allows you to include small allied detachments in a fluffy build without being forced to run a CAD or AD.

Problem is it's rarely done right. But there's nothing wrong with the concept of Formations.

>>51846981
>OP formations need to fuck off
FTFY. Formations are an excellent, fluffy concept, and they could go a long way towards balancing shittier units against the great ones. The problem is that GW are retarded and make fucking stupid formations like Riptide Wing that take the already overpowered units and give them even more buffs.

>>51846981
I think formations are fine, but you should have to pay points for them on top of having the model restrictions.

>>51846913
No, anon, I can't stand it. If I want to use Bloodletters I'd ally in KdK or Chaos Daemons. Summoning just triggers my autism in the worst way, since it's pretty much:
>Alrigjt, we both brought out X point armies, now I'm going to summon Y points and add that to my army

>>51846925
My problem is that that doesn't feel right to me either. I have the 30k rules on hand, but I want to play Chaos Space Marines, y'know what I'm trying to say, anon?

>>51846958
Yeah. I know. I love them for their fluff and colors, but I can't stand their rules. They're so bad. I legitimately wish Pisessed were worth taking because then at least 1/4 of their legion rules would be useful 100% of the time.

>>51846981
I think what they should have done is alternate force orgs, or something. I dunno.

>>51847004
>Alrigjt, we both brought out X point armies, now I'm going to summon Y points and add that to my army
Only play games against Gladius then.

>>51847004
>My problem is that that doesn't feel right to me either. I have the 30k rules on hand, but I want to play Chaos Space Marines, y'know what I'm trying to say, anon?
I feel you anon. I feel your pain.

Your best bet will probably be waiting for a new Codex in 8th and hoping they buff Possessed.

>>51846981
People already go for cookie cutter builds with Cads. The good formations in the game are the ones that allow some flexibility in unit sizes and what you can take, while also offering fluffy benefits that help boost weaker units.

>>51846981

Formations are cool. They get units into the game that you would never otherwise see. In fact, the CAD is the lamest and least fluffy choice.

>>51846990
Why is it that anytime anybody talks about daemon or psykers, they always roll all the best stuff?

>>51846698
I don't think there's much to talk about with Nids

>>51846884
the hell you talking about

>>51847004
It wouldn't be that bad if you could only summon one unit as you're basically paying for it by taking the power.

>>51846969
>he didn't play against Skyblight Swarm when it was the new hotness
No need to pretend you aren't new, friendo.

>>51847024
When you have 4 dp its easy to roll what you need. Also daemons in general are lucky.

>>51847027
Well yeah. Any rating for a Nid army is just +1 for every Flyrant you have. The book has been out for long enough that there's nothing to really discuss.

>>51846990
>Want to psyker em?
Passing deny the witch rolls like no one's business with all the warp charges they have on you.
>Want to shoot em?
(Winged)You got Skyfire? Nope? Good luck.
(Non-winged) Lol, we got awesome saves anyway.
>Want to melee them?
Watch the key member of your squad get FUCKING obliterated.

>>51847024
The Daemon guy in our group pisses me off to no end with his insane rolling luck. Always gets the best rewards and powers. ALWAYS. FUCKING ALWAYS makes his saves on HQ's. Games against him usually end up with me losing half my shit by turn 2 and him missing a few Pink Horrors here, a Bloodletter or two there, and a single wound off a Bloodcrusher or something. It's fucking infuriating.

>>51847027
There's a fuckton to talk about with nids for people who are actually into military strategy, evolutionary biology, zoology, ecology, speculative science fiction, the list goes on.

In my experience the people who think nids are "boring" are the most bland and unimaginative people in the community.

>>51846899
All formations are giving you "free stuff", and there are multiple "free warmest" formations that aren't OP or even good. See all the non-Death Guard CSM free stuff. Hell, even with the Death Guard the free VotLW doesn't really matter

>>51846899
Would looking at TSons make you feel better?

>>51846861
>>51846990
>hating Infernal Memerad
It's a hilarious gimmick build, but it's shit. It's only really a problem if the player uses it to spam the shit out of summoning up support for them, and even then there are far more optimal ways of playing summonspam.

Just run MSU and give them more targets than 4 models with minimal support can actually kill over the course of a game. No, I'm not even sorry that a 300+ point Prince shat all over your Paladin unit or is a fucking bitch to get rid of. At that price, it's basically a superheavy and should have superheavy durability in that it requires specialist weapons or the D to get rid of.


This all said I will give you that a Robe Tzeentch Prince is pretty fucking gay if Cursed Earth is rolled.

>>51847041
I've played nids since 2nd edition. Skyblight Swarm wasn't fucking good, dude.

>>51847063
>Paladins
>Only D weapon available without allies is a psychic power that can be easily fucking denied by Daemons

There's another problem we need to address at this point, then.

>>51847009
That's one of my problems with 40k cyrrently. Gladius is ridiculous with the free transports.

>>51847011
Probably. Unfortunately.

>>51847038
I guess, but it just feels wrong to me. I dunno.

>>51847051
Well jesus alright lets talk about bugs then.

>>51847091
>Sir! We have more [rhinos and razorbacks] than they have bullets! Drown them in [burnt and blackened hulls]!

>>51847051
They're an NPC faction, anon.

>>51847091
>That's one of my problems with 40k cyrrently. Gladius is ridiculous with the free transports.

The real reason Gladius is OP is because of the way the transports interact with the grav weaponry you put on every unit, and because the whole thing is ObjSec.

Grav-less Battle Company is a fucking joke and only armies with literally no firepower lose to them. They're literally zero offense "slowly get tabled" the build. Every army should be able to wipe out tactical marines and Rhinos, provided that the marine player doesn't have any other cheesy shit to fight back with.

>>51847042
>>51847050
I forgot that fa/tg/Uys were more superstitious than sub-Saharan tribal Africans.

>>51847109
They have more players than Tau and Necrons, Carnac. Who does that make NPC Faction?

>>51847098
Okay!

First argument!

The vast majority of tyranids you see on the battlefield are not truly alive! I'd say that it would be more accurate to call them robots made of flesh that have basic reactive programming, just like tau drones and necron warriors. I say this because they're genetically distinct from other tyranid forms, but they can't naturally reproduce their own species; other tyranid forms to that for them.

So, by definition, the only tyranid organisms that we know for a fact are alive by our current definition are Hiveships and debatably Norn Queens.

>>51847125
Dude, you would be to if you see the way this guy rolls. I think the only person that has beat him is the Eldar player. And he barely made it by.

>>51846953
>combines 3 other top factions and claims Tau sucks because they don't compare to those three combined, even though they're better than any of the individual factions

Monstrous creatures should leave wreckage, like vehicles.

>>51847126
Not him but Taufags dare not show their faces here. The number is disproportionately low.
>Necrons
Does anyone still play them?

>>51847051
Personally I think they're boring to talk about because they don't really have a face to them, or a goal deeper than nomnomnom. They're just kind of "the enemy," and there are already like 4 factions that share that same trait.

They're's probably more to them than meets the eye, but I've just never been interested in them enough to look beyond them being big monsters.

>>51847050
Fuck skyfire, it's the biggest meme in game.
>half of armies don't have reliable anti air.
>90% of skyfire weapons are autocannons, even devastator rockets are str 7 ap 4 ffs. Not even ignore cover.
>95% of flyers are av 12, you can't even one shot them. and you glance them on 5+, flying MC usually have 3+.
>they have jink, nurgle shits have 2+ jink
>if you stack on anti air you don't have enough fire power to deal with ground units.

>>51847128
>robots made of flesh

So tyranids are walkers?

>>51847143
Sure, Necrons are pretty fun once in a while, but shelved for now while my Dark Aeldari get some action.

>>51847126
Still the Tyranids.

>>51847136
>confirmation bias in action
If he is so incredibly lucky in literally every game then swap dice with him. If he has nothing to hide he won't get mad and may even take it as a compliment, at least as much as "you roll really fucking well" can be made to be a compliment.

>>51847149
Mmhmm! Controlled by the hive mind!

>>51847128
I love the biomechanical robots aspect of Tyranids, frankly. The best description of them came from Xenology, where the Magos studying them talked about how they weren't so much living beings as weapons made of flesh that pull their own triggers.

HOWEVER - it's inaccurate to say they can't naturally reproduce themselves, as there are plenty of Tyranids that are designed to do just that, mainly in the vanguard. Hormagaunts for example are born pregnant and asexually replicate themselves. Their symbiote gun-beasts gestate their own ammunition/offspring, and then of course there are Genestealers.

>>51847143
I do. They were my 1st army and they're very dear to my heart but at the moment Tzeentch has corrupted that and turned me to Chaos.

>>51847161
We've watched him buy the dice he uses. They aren't loaded. He is just EXTREMELY lucky.

>>51847164
>>51847128
>not alive

i'm confused by this statement. they breathe, eat, move and bleed. aren't they more like ants then robots in flesh?

>>51847175
>walk into store 30 minutes before everyone arrives
>hands bag of loaded dice to owner
>"I'll give you $20 if you pretend to sell me these dice."

>>51847137
>he didn't even read the post
I flat-out said that pure Tau place lower than Pure marines, then went on to point out that they also place lower than Marine flavors. If you want even more details, add in that they place lower than Eldar and Daemons too, and oh look, Tau are not in the fucking top 3.

Not that factions mean anything worth a damn this edition because the tournament meta is all about cherrypicking and allied formation bullshit, which is why Tau UNITS are so commonplace.

>>51847187
laughingmarine.gif

>>51847187
This was at a store we didn't know existed while driving to another store to meet with a dude who he bought some stuff off of. I'm telling you he's not using loaded dice. But some of us in the group are suspicious of his use of rules and/or demonic rewards results along side him sometimes picking up his dice a little too quickly or rolling a bit too far from us.

>>51847143
There are like 4 Necron , 3 Nid, 1 Tau, 6 SM variety, 1 Daemon , 1 imperial agent, 2 CSM here

>>51847164
>Their symbiote gun-beasts gestate their own ammunition/offspring
I did not know that. The last time I read a nid codex was 4th or 5th edition, when their weapons were just angry beetle shooters.

>and then of course there are Genestealers
Eh... Technically not reproducing, because unless I'm wrong, they aren't able to reproduce without another species's DNA/DNA equivalent. If it can't pass on it's own DNA on its own or with another member of its species, it's not reproducing. Viruses aren't technically alive for the same reason; in fact it's the virus example that made me think of it. So technically speaking, genestealers would be classified in modern science as a virus, I think. A new type of virus, to be sure, but they fit the biological criteria.

>>51847184
One of the requirements for something to be a living being by the modern scientific definition is that its species can reproduce. You see some examples like the worker castes of bees and mutants that can't individually reproduce, but their species can (their genetic expression is different, but not their actual genetic code). Tyranid war forms are genetically distinct from each other, and as most of them aren't capable of reproducing on their own, they aren't technically alive. The same distinction is drawn with viruses; fact of the day, science doesn't consider viruses alive because they can't reproduce without another specie's(') DNA.

>>51847188
>Tau place lower than marines

Look at the most recent LVO

inb4 "hurr ITC is shit"

>>51847145
>Personally I think they're boring to talk about because they don't really have a face to them, or a goal deeper than nomnomnom
This is what I was talking about with >>51847051

You don't need a "face" or a "goal" to be interesting in a speculative war sci-fi setting. Tyranids have so much more to them to talk about than boring shit like which over-the-top hammy personality warlord is taking the mary sue spotlight of the week. If anything their lack of individual characters is a virtue in a setting that's SUPPOSED to be so large and care so little for the individual and yet is constantly ruined by shitty fluff focussing around a bunch of snowflakes and their personal teen drama angst.

I want more fluff about CAMPAIGNS, going into the gritty details of what forces were available, how the terrain was laid out, how logistics were handled, what tactics they used, how the Tyranids responded, how new creatures were used in unexpected situations to change the course of the war in certain theaters.

I want to read a story about a tank column in the desert fighting a swarm of Carnifexes and how over the weeks the battle conditions changed as new strains showed up. That's the kind of shit that's interesting.

Not "and then this stuffy space marine faggot said some more ohso brave shit and then this arrogant DEldar guy said some more ebic bantz about how he was gonna torture him".

>>51847184
The terms used to describe gaunts and other unintelligent tyranids in early tyranid publications like Hive War and the 2E codex is "Biological automata".

Literally living robots. They are alive, in that they are organic creatures with functioning metabolisms, but unlike normal animals they are designed beings with explicit purposes.

A termagant isn't a person or an animal, it's a type of munition.

>>51847188

Everyone places lower than Eldar and Daemons you moron, those two are 1 and 2 respectively. Guess who's 3? IT'S TAU YOU DIPSHIT. 4 is C:SM and 5 is DA. SW aren't even in the top 8.

Like I said, Taufags keep mentioning "tournament results" yet they just spew bullshit instead of posting actual results.

LVO Army Faction Break Down
As for the top 8 it kinda went as expected with no surprises.

2 Deamons
1 Chaos Renegades
1 Dark Angel
1 Ad-Mech
1 Eldar Corsairs
1 Eldar
1 Tau

>>51847237
>I did not know that. The last time I read a nid codex was 4th or 5th edition, when their weapons were just angry beetle shooters.
It's not new fluff, it's always been this way, just depends on the weapon.

For example, the Barbed Strangler - it's ammo is its own highly derived offspring.

>>51847237
>One of the requirements for something to be a living being by the modern scientific definition is that its species can reproduce.
Are mules not living things?