OSR - Butthurt Avoidance Thread

>Which of these makes you the most butthurt:
Skill systems probably

New to OSR, can anyone point me towards a functional but barebones system? Preferably something where I can fluff in my own powers/skills

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>>51827704

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>>51827801

>>51827704
We've seen a few bitch fights over cantrips too, though admittedly they come up less often.

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>>51827791
I mean, LotFPs is about as functional and barebones as it gets. I houserule it with a d12 and modifiers myself to make characters more diverse in skills.

You could also use this one from BFRPG. Its just a d20 roll over 17 (at level-1. Goes down each level).

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>>51827704

- AD&D
>never played it. looks bloated.

- DCC
>I fucking love it but never get to run it.

- Thieves
>best class. fight me.

- Skill Systems
>like 'em as long as they don't get TOO specific in skills.
>find me a middle-ground between LotFP and 5e.

- Engrossing Storylines
>all fuckin' day. And I don't even write them; my players do as we go along.

>>51827791
>where I can fluff in my own powers/skills?
What sort of powers/skills are you talking about? Like darkvision and lock picking?
Adventurer Conqueror King has pretty clean rules on how to make you're own classes/races. Following those you can tweak or replace existing class abilities. It also has a optional feats thing that some people don't like, but might be what you're looking for.

>>51827704
If I had to pick, AD&D I guess. Thieves would come a close second but I think they're alright if you treat their skills like saving throws and supernatural ability.

>>51827914
>>51827992
checking these all out, thanks guys

Skill systems and storygames make me the angriest.

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>>51827791
Here's one designed around thief skills. It's simpler than it looks, and you could drop the strength/weakness categories if you wanted to make things easy. The weak skill column can work for classes with lesser skill progressions (think assassins, which have access to thief skills in AD&D, but lag levels behind) if you have need of that.

>>51827704
>Which of these makes you the most butthurt:
Probably AD&D. It's too gygaxian to use at the table, has a bunch of pointless rules, and spawned 2e which spawned 3e.
Still, it's pretty fun to read.

>>51828130
This actually does help. I'm really taking the essentials of these systems and homebrewing it into something that works for me.

I'm worldbuilding and I'd like to be able to plugin whatever race/class/mechanic that applies to my story.

>>51827704 Thieves.
>>51827791 c >>51774267

....How many spells do I start with in my spellbook in AD&D? Have read the wizard section fifteen fucking times and can't find it.

Also how do you guys feel about a generic / modern OSR system? I'm thinking of making one for an upcoming zombie apocalypse game I plan to run. Like rolling 3d6 straight down for stats, having it be very lethal and based on what characters choose to do.

>Which of these makes you the most butthurt:
>AD&D
I'm apathetic towards it.

>DCC
It's a good system that does what it says on the box.

>Thieves
I prefer LotFP's Specialist better, but Thieves in general are perfectly fine.

>Skill Systems
Depends on the implementation, but generally nothing wrong with skills.

>Engrossing Storylines
That depends entirely on the DM.

>>51828259
DMG p.39

You know read magic + one offense, defense, misc spell, randomly generated of course.

>>51827791
>>51827914

I misread that and thought you meant a barebones Skill System. I vote BFRPG.

>>51828259
As with half the char-gen rules, it's in the DMG.

For 2e, that's 3d4 spells or their INT (whichever is lower).
One spell must be [Read Magic] and one spell must be [Detect Magic]
The DM rolls for the other spells, but behind the screen.
(so you might 'luck' into spells if you ask the DM)

Not sure about AD&D, proper (own 2e physically; phoneposter, can't look at my AD&D .PDFs at the moment).
But it'll be in the DMG, I'm sure of that.

How could I add layers of success to checks? Something like powered by the apocalypse games where 7-9 is a partial success and 10+ is a complete success?

>>51828364
Oh yeah, I misread it that way too.

>>51828414
I think you answered your own question.
I usually give a level of success scaling with how they rolled relative to the check

>>51828414
Using what dice system and how often do you want the two levels to happen relative to each other?

>>51828414
You could take the associated stat mod and use that amount less than the target number as a partial success. So needing an 18 to hit, but having a str mod of +2 means 16 and 17 are partials.

That's just off the top of my head. Might not come up enough.

>>51827423
Oh yeah, that's right, they use HD (rather than Strength, notably) as a proxy for how hard a guy is to grapple down! I like that; it's clever use of existing stats, and it makes sense to use the advancement in martial ability as the key trait.

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I'm doing a non-class based OSR game inspired by into the Odd and other modern fantasy with some light sci-fi elements as well.

I come to you, OSR thread, to tell me what kind of powers I should give my psychic players. These psychic powers are essentially something you have to 'sacrifice' other things for at the start of the game, similar to playing a weak class like Wizard for access to magic, in this game it works similarly but with psychic powers. Also you only get one psychic power, but they tend to be kind of broad.

Basically I want your best ideas for a mix of supernatural, magic, and psychic things put together to just make powers that would work well for a urban hexcrawl style game.

Remember, this game has flying cars but everyone uses shitty guns made of scrap metal. Enemies the players encounter will be bandits with rapid fire machinegun or close range rifle executioner hidden pistols and other nonsense, along with supernatural monsters and mad science experiments. So keep that in mind.

>>51828667
If they only get 1 power I'd take a look at what other games term psychic disciplines/schools of magic and have each of those be the outline of what the power does. Easiest would be to take the psionic powers from stars without number and rather than getting different powers have them basically all available at a cost of entry that otherwise disables the character and/or has higher risk/just does damage to use that is scaled for the power of effect.

>>51828905

I honestly wanted a mix of magic/psychic abilties here, but I'll take a look. I've been meaning to read SWN anyway.

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>>51828986
Gander this

>>51828667
should probably be broad categories of Psychic abilities, like Telekinesis, Pyrokinesis and so on, at least if you're going to go with just one power(probably better off just refluffing the regular spell system as psychic powers though, would be much easier to make a functional balanced system doing so, even if it's less "creative")

>>51828667
[Phatasmal Force] is about how broad powers should be, if they are limited to one.
But if I were doing classes OSR, I would limit players to scrolls.

>>51827704
>- AD&D
>- DCC
>- Thieves
>- Skill Systems
>- Engrossing Storylines

the answer is yes

New player here.
I understand that in OSR style dungeon crawling using Basic D&D you're supposed to avoid combat right.

But how exactly you do that?
For exanple. I'm playing B2 keep on the borderlands. I'm a fighter, others are cleric, mage, and thief. We got 2 more henchmen fighters. I'm walking in one of the caves. Thief scouts ahead and see 6 kobolds guarding the next corridor. On the other one, is a room with a bunch of rats. Fuck rats, we're not going that way.

So how do I avoid the kobolds? I can't see anything else to do except maybe try to get a surprise attack, but with a thac0 of 20 on everyone I know we don't even have a 50% chance to hit those fuckers. 6 kobolds, that's an equal numbers fight, I don't want to take those odds.

But I don't really see how one goes about "avoiding fights" in OSR when most of the game you're meant to go into the vietnam-like mazes full of monsters.

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>>51829254
Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart. Time to start thinking like you only have duct tape.

Lure the kobolds away.

Bribe them.

Chat with them.

Charm them.

Flood the cave.

Put them to sleep.

Feed them poisoned meet.

Stampede some cattle into the dungeon.

Dress up like a sexy lady kobold, obtain husbands.

Dress up like a dragon, obtain a cult.

Lure the rats towards the kobolds. Lure the owlbear from outside towards the rats.

>>51829254
>No Thac0 in B/X
>Use your environment and wits
>Lay some food out in a trail leading from the rat room to the kobolds and watch shit go down.

>>51829333
>PS I meant I don't use thac0 in my B/X games. derp.

>>51829254

Find allies in the keep. Play the monsters off each other. But one way or another you have to clear the caves.

>>51829352
>>51829333
thac0 works just the same as the b/x hit tables

>>51829329
>>51829333
>>51829383
Hmm, so basically just try to avoid rolling dice as much as possible.
I'm not sure I'm creative enough for this

I really wish I could see some people playing old school D&D somewhere or read a report so I could get see a few examples of play that aren't made up.

btw how would I flood the cave? I can see how to do everything else but flooding the caves of chaos looks really impractical.

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>>51829573
>I really wish I could see some people playing old school D&D somewhere or read a report so I could get see a few examples of play that aren't made up.

Son, your google-fu is weak sauce.

You can find Actual Play threads on a lot of forums. You can find podcasts and video recordings. You just need to look.

Flood the cave by diverting a stream, or filling a bag of holding* with water, or find a friendly cloud elemental, or an incontinent dragon, or cast a portal under a lake.

*or larger equivalent

>>51828201
>DCC is a pretty big departure from 'conventional' OSR (while still being closer than AD&D).

I'd say it's absolutely further than AD&D. I can use Basic adventures and monsters in AD&D with no trouble, and vice versa, but have you seen the DCC stat blocks?

>Giant Water Warrior: Init -2; Atk large axe +5 melee (1d8+2);
>AC 18; HD 3d10; hp 20; MV 30’; Act 2d20; SV Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +2; AL N.

Some of that's usable, but some of that's got to be reworked to go to Basic, or invented if you want to bring something from Basic to DCC.

>>51829573
I'm a fan of skills exactly for people like you. My players have about a thimble of creativity between them if not given mechanics to work with. Run DCC and they're utterly lost on improvisation. Use a system with a "Tinkering" "Speechcraft" or "Athletics" skill and suddenly everyone has a grip on what they wanna do. I can't explain it, but it works.

Therefore, my solution is: Use Lamentations of the Flame Princess and its simple d6 skill system. Ignore the horror bits if needed. Add whatever extra skills you see fit to the character sheet (Arcana, Speechcraft, Medicine, etc). Stress beforehand that combat at low levels is risky as hell.

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So which critical hit system do you like the best:

-Crits do max damage
-Crits do double damage
-Crits let you roll damage twice and add the results (i.e. exploding dice)

inb4 someone gets all huffy and calls critical hits badwrongfun

>>51829976
>-Crits do max damage
This one.

>>51829976

Critical hits, but only for my character, who has 18 charisma.

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>>51829976
I prefer "Crits do double damage, or regular damage and let you perform a free maneuver (shove, trip, grapple, etc.)"

>>51829976
>-Crits do max damage
D&D 4e had it right with this one

>>51829976
Add level to damage.

>>51830229
I want to add AEDU system to OSR games, is this not a good idea?

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>>51829976
This one.

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>>51829976
I folded to-hit and on-hit into one roll (attacks deal 2d6-AC* damage, +1d6 per extra 'attack'), so there's fundamentally no difference between a max roll and max damage
*man-to-man AC, -1 across the board (because M2M has you 'hit' if your roll equals AC)

>>51830277
At-Will and Encounter are somewhat at odds with the resource management subtheme, but refreshing spells at the cost of a few Wandering Monster rolls would fit right in.

>"I ignore the pile of gold, and warn the party to IGNORE it under pain of death."
>Why?
>"It's a pile of gold in a deep cave. That doesn't just fall from the sky, it was placed there, likely by a dragon or some other form of hoarder."
>Would you character know that?
>"Bitch I'm a guy who spent two years in fifth grade because I got my hand stuck in a radiator and my character is a third level ranger in his thirties, I leave the fucking gold alone."
>Then he gets salty because he didn't get to use the mimic boss he spent so long creating.

Shit like this is why I prefer OSR. It weeds out these kinds of DMs.

>>51830277
not necessarily, just gotta make sure the At-Will spells and abilities aren't too strong(to a lesser extent that applies to the Encounter ones as well)

like for example something like Fireball works fine as a Encounter ability, something like Charm Monster or Sleep should be a daily ability though

>>51830459
>>51830375
>At-Will and Encounter are somewhat at odds with the resource management subtheme
Most at-will powers are not that better than normal attacks, just different or act like a class feature:

>Sure strike
+2 to hit, but no strength modifier to damage

>Reaping strike
half strength modifier as damage on a miss, full mod if using two-handed weapon

I also dislike Encounter powers, I think something like the way they made psionics (no encounter powers but have "Power Points" to augment at-will powers) better, just changing "Power Point" to Stamina for Fighters and Rogues.

I dunno what I would do with casters, maybe something more like 13th Age or similar to Beyond the Wall: number of spells equal to your level.

There is also Essentials 4e, I have to look at that yet.

>>51830506
>not that better than normal attacks, just different
If the Magic-User wants to refluff his crossbow into a shit wand, I truly don't mind.

>There is also Essentials 4e, I have to look at that yet.
Never looked at that one, but I've heard bad things.

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>>51830554
>If the Magic-User wants to refluff his crossbow into a shit wand, I truly don't mind.
The problem is I think spellcasters are better with the vancian system, so at-will power can be a problem, as they use the caster int instead of the usual dex that crossbow requires

Do you think something like this is too much?

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What happened to the Terrors & Wonders anon? Are you alright? Did you give up this project?

Looking for your favorite one-shots or 2 to 3 session adventures.

Running an episodic game and plan on running a lot of these.

>>51830629
I think it's silly to add damage for STR, let alone DEX or INT.

>>51823231
>But in an edition with really, REALLY good 1st level spells... [Read Magic] is your most underwhelming choice.

For a new character in a new party, but if you die and roll a new m-u, especially if you're starting over at 1st level and the rest have levelled up a bit, it's an excellent way to punch above your weight.

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got this idea from the last thread. Let's make a shared Hexcrawl map/setting.

Add a hex, expand the map, or add detail to other hexes already made.

first hex is a mountainous region.

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>>51831626
Added another mountain.

>>51830554
>If the Magic-User wants to refluff his crossbow into a shit wand, I truly don't mind.
while I don't mind refluffing, I feel it's better for the system to actually support low level semi-unlimited spell flinging

>>51830629
in 4E's context they're fine, for an OSR context I'd drop the damage for all of those to either 1d4 or 1d3+1(and probably drop the bonus damage from modifiers)

>>51831490
honestly I'd just make Read Magic an at-will cantrip that all MU's get, but maybe make it harder to succeed in exchange

>>51831649
...the whole map is going to be mountain.

>>51831490
If you die and start over at Lv.1, most of your party's scrolls have been identified.
You might have a few unidentified, but they probably aren't worth giving up [Sleep] or [Charm Person]

I can't seem to find Hackmaster 4E in the treasure trove. Can anyone point me to where I can get Hackmaster 4E pdfs?

>>51831805
No, to cast the spell off the scroll you personally have to cast read magic on it.

>>51831649
>>51831769
This just got me thinking, has anyone done a setting that is nearly all mountains, where plains are almost unheard of? Like an opposite seaworld.

Obviously PCs are Yak herders.

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>>51831858
It'd be interesting but I think I would prefer a mixed environment (Dark Sun being about my only exception). Maybe a region that is almost all mountains though, like Bhutan, Nepal, Tibet or something. Deep cut river valleys but most people live in thinly populated villages save the Dwarves who have been nearly wiped clean as well from near constant attacks from monsterfolks.

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>>51831981
Did somebody say... mountains, cliffs, and rivers everywhere?

>>51831626
I think it would be better to just use Hexographer and make a completely random map then let fellow fa/tg/uys and ca/tg/irls adds icons and such to it. Far faster in my opinion and could lead to some really odd yet interesting things.

How do I make a neighborhood-crawl for a modern fantasy game?

>>51832238

think silent hill, except less perpetually spooky

>>51832238
I guess you'd have to consider how movement works. that's always at the core of hexcrawls. And the hexcrawl map is usually an overworld, and unrelated to the map used for combat.

I guess you should make a few roads in a combat grid map and give each building a floorplan they can fight in. thenjust expand for the size you need.

or you could just follow the standard hexcrawl map style but each 6 mile hex is a patch of 'city-types' like residential, industrial, public parks.

>>51832238
>>51832280
I'd keep two or three dozen 'template' floor plans handy. Maybe switch a room or two in them now and then.
Not that unrealistic, since any given area tends to fall back on the same few architects.

Plus unique setpieces for special stuff, etc.

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In under a dozen words, describe either your custom setting or the one that your DM runs.

Ancient Sumerians, miasma theory of medicine and snake-people.

>>51832502
Pioneering of the New Fantasy continent by a Hudson bay company rip-off.

>>51832502
Expeditions from Lankhmar-Morpork to the mideval mid-west. Dungeons ≡ Allegorical Bullshit

>>51832529
Too many. You need UNDER a dozen.

>>51832502
Hex crawls, Dungeon delves.

>>51832614
Eh, if he just dropped all the articles he'd be fine.

>Pioneering of New Fantasy continent by Hudson bay company rip-off

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>>51830837
I still lurk. I haven't really given up but I also haven't worked on it lately. I'm not really okay but I'm doing better.

Changelog:
>Added Agility (Dexterity) back in, change named because I am semantics autismo
>Adding turning rules
>ditched the 3.5 action economy for a weirder system
>Started on 3.PF conversion notes

And I think I accidentally skipped a version?

>>51832502

Otherworldly city, aliens fight with trash guns and psychic powers.

I'm about to start a dark soulsy game ran with B/X, btb. I'm not familiar with the system and its lethality.
What would make a good boss fight for 1st level dudes, with random equipment? Maybe a 3th level elf + a couple of 1st level elves?
How would you stat the bomb-throwing giant in the top of Sen's Fortress? (so it's very hard but can go down with a party of 3-4 smart players)

>>51830441
>"Bitch I'm a guy who spent two years in fifth grade because I got my hand stuck in a radiator and my character is a third level ranger in his thirties, I leave the fucking gold alone."
kek

>>51833272
Hill Giant with bombs for throwing instead of rocks?

>>51832502
Shit, where do I go, dungeons everywhere. Fuck ghouls.

>>51829254
My players filled the cave entrance up with anything flammable they could find and smoked the kobolds and rats out. Picked them off as they scrambled over each other to escape.

and, as others have said, the rats to the kobolds or vice versa is always an option. As is making allies with another group, or otherwise manipulating one group into warring on the other.

Of course, out-of-the-box thinking only works if your DM has an imagination gland that wasn't shriveled up by 3.5/PF and 4e.

>>51833736
Can 3-4 poorly equipped murderhobos survive a 8+1HD thing that hurls area-of-effect bombs?
They can't be Charmed or put to Sleep, either...

>>51834176
He said "very hard".

>>51832502
Princess of Mars meets The Little Mermaid. Underwater Dark Sun.

>>51832502
All the OSR shit I buy, layered on top of each other.

>>51832502
Red and Pleasant Land but me designing the dungeons, so it's shit.

>>51832502
donjon.bin.sh + labyrinth (1986)

Hello /osr/, 5e tourist here. I'm curious about how do you go about 'boss' encounters. Do you have them? Do you roll reaction rolls for them and all that?

What would make a good boss for a first session? I'm interested in trying LL, if that matters.

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>>51832502

Post-Apocalyptic, 300 years after the fall. A lush, overgrown Pacific Northwest with subtle elements of gonzo and the strange.

I might be wrong, but- is Dungeon Meshi plain, pure, rules as written B/X D&D?
Including reaction rolls and dwarves finding traps like champs.

>>51834793
There are definitely enemies of groups that are stronger than others, if that's what you mean. That's been a thing since OD&D. Every goblin and orc camp has a chieftain, every evil cult has an evil high priest. They roll for reaction too, but might also have higher morale.

I can't tell you what would make a good boss encounter, because even though there are strong enemies, an old-school dungeon crawl should rarely make it so the PCs have to fight something. You can place a treasure room just beyond them, but there should also be a bunch of smaller treasure in the dungeon and the players should be able to feel like they can be done and leave the dungeon with the loot they've found without having to take a big risk and fight the big boss.

>>51834793
>how do you go about 'boss' encounters. Do you have them?
No, not really. I mean, I have dragons and stuff like that -- tough monsters. And like >>51835005 says, monsters have bosses. "Boss monster" seems to imply a play and narrative structure to me, though, and that's pretty much nonexistent the way I play -- for instance, you don't fight your way through hordes of weaker enemies to confront the dragon in a stand-up, unless you're an idiot. You sneak into the dragon's lair so you can be as close to full power as possible when you attack it, and you work to get the drop on it or disadvantage it as much as possible.

>>51834929
Nnnno, it's close, and obviously has tons in common with BX, but it seems to have more direct antecedents in the Wizardry series.

>>51835005
>>51835150
Yeah, I don't mean videogamey-boss. Not even a monster-boss; I said encounter. For example, what happens when players get to the castelian in B2 and the reaction roll goes very wrong?

I feel like strong fights in BX are a bit anticlimatic. You die outright, unless you've been fucking around forever preparing a one-shot plan; at least at low levels. Is this true? At higher levels too?

>>51835240
>For example, what happens when players get to the castelian in B2 and the reaction roll goes very wrong?
I don't think you need to roll reaction for him. Reaction rolls aren't needed for all NPCs, just those who you're not sure how they will react. Also, I mixed up reaction roll with morale roll in my later post. Don't know how I managed that.

>I feel like strong fights in BX are a bit anticlimatic. You die outright, unless you've been fucking around forever preparing a one-shot plan; at least at low levels. Is this true? At higher levels too?
Classic D&D is a game about resource managed and being very careful. Fights at low level are dangerous because one bad hit can kill you. In fact, it's often better to find solutions to problems outside the scope of system, since that has you rolling dice which can have you fail. That said, higher levels makes mistakes a bit less punishing (if your DM allows it). Try to imagine that levels 1-3 are the backstory part of a character.

>>51835364
So, when do you roll reaction? I understood that every encounter has one (at least).
I get that undead and friends will always attack, but in B2 the party has to earn their place in the Keep. You'd expect at least one reaction roll for the guards in the gates, and another for an important NPC, right?

>>51835240
>I feel like strong fights in BX are a bit anticlimatic. You die outright, unless you've been fucking around forever preparing a one-shot plan; at least at low levels. Is this true?
Yes, besides the fucking around forever part. Typically people learn to play fairly quickly and planning time is not an issue.

>At higher levels too?
Pretty much, but on higher levels you do start seeing more "scraping by by the skin of our teeth" and "unexpected save by ingenious improvised use of magic item" type stuff.

>>51835462
>I understood that every encounter has one (at least).
Every *dungeon* encounter. You don't need to roll hostility for every podunk villager and guardsman.

In the case of the guards at the Keep I'd just roleplay it, and same for the Castellan: unless they sperged out and acted hubristic/antagonized them, there would be no chance of hostility.

>>51835462
Reaction and morale are different things.

Reaction is how an NPC will react, with the best being very friendly and the worst being hostile. You could definitely run the keep by rolling reaction for every NPC if you want, but this of course opens the possibility that the castellan won't be very welcoming. That's fine, but it might lead to a very different adventure where the PCs might have to live in the wilderness until they've proved themselves or something.

Morale is whether the NPC will escape during various tides turning in a battle. If I remember correctly, morale should be rolled when the first enemy dies and when half of the enemy group has died. Undead never escape because they are mindless.

What's the monster bestiary with higher illustration/text ratio? Bonus if it has minimal but usable crunch.

I'm looking for something close to what MotBM does, but with decent illos and more "common" critters.

>>51834176
>They can't be Charmed or put to Sleep, either
And why not?

>>51834176
Doubtful

Unless by survive you mean run away then maybe. But they'll take at least one loss.

>>51835808
Too big for Charm, too much HD for Sleep.

>>51831858
http://blogofholding.com/?p=5937 may be of interest.

It also provides a (familiar) map.

>>51832238
Vornheim's in the trove, and has a lot of really handy tools for urbancrawling even if you disregard the setting.

>>51834929
>>51835150
D&D's history in Japan is weird and didn't always filter back, but... it's basically BD&D, yeah. Inspired by early Wizardry, but guess what that's a direct rip-off of?

>>51827704
>Which of these makes you the most butthurt:
>AD&D
I never played it, but I have read the books for the first and second edition. Seems like it lost the good parts of B/X D&D that the OSR movement tries to recapture, while starting the trend that eventually led to 3.5/PF.

>DCC
Looks super fun, and I really want to get my group to try it some time. Sailors on the Starless Sea was the module I was considering for a oneshot

>Skill Systems
Kevin Crawford's games (Stars Without Number, Spears of the Dawn, etc) are my favorite part of OSR, so skill systems are fine with me. They just need to be used well, to where it fits into the old paradigm of player > character abilities. So they shouldn't replace creativity and problem-solving, but should step in to abstract things that are still risky even with description.

>Engrossing Storylines
I'm a fan of narrativist RPGs like Fate, but keep that separate from these RPGs. The overall plot in an OSR game, to me at least, has o be emergent from practical survival/dungeoneering decisions and randomness. In these games it's best that the storyline be bottom-up rather than top-down

>>51836294
>Seems like it lost the good parts of B/X
AD&D was '77, B/X was '81
You ever "lose" tomorrow's lottery numbers?

>In these games it's best that the storyline be bottom-up rather than top-down
Top-down stories can provide great excuses for dungeon delving.

What uses has a d20 in B/X?
-Melee attacks
-Missile attacks
-Saves
-Roll under your ability score (optional, suggested for certain cases only)
-...?

Anyone got the full collection of numbered lists made by that guy? Like 50 OSR classes, 30 Mountain Encounters, and so on?

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>>51836506
>AD&D was '77

Only the Monster Manual. AD&D wasn't complete until '79.

>>51832502
Magic postapoc, lasers, wizards, mutants, mutant laser wizards, and lots of Nadsat.

Spell memorization rules in Moldvay imply that you can have more than one spell book to memorize spells from.
Otherwise it would just say that, as long as you have your spell book, you can cast the spells noted in your class table once a day. Full stop.

Fight me.

>>51837231
...and B/X this predates how??

>>51837449
Holmes' Set was published in '77

>>51827704
>Which of these makes you the most butthurt:
But I like all of these

>>51837398
Hell yeah.

>>51827704
>Which of these makes you the most butthurt
To be honest with you, what mangles my ass the worst is when some guy comes in and wants to change saves just because "they're illogical" and "it makes more sense to base them off stats", as if 3.pf had some sort of natural priority in determining what logic governs saves over and above the game they came from, not to mention that 3E saves are totally broken.

It's like saying that it's inherently more logical for attack rolls to be primarily based on gerbil size because that's how it works in Gerbilquest.

>>51827704
People like the guy above me who get worked up about other people having fun with minor modifications.
Those sure are the worst.

>>51837449

Didn't say it did, just pointing out that AD&D wasn't really "out" in '77.

How can anyone play games where your character likely dies the first round of battle

Seriously

>>51837579
Holmes was "OD&D-lite," Moldvay/Cook is a far different beast.

>>51837831
By realising that your character would probably die in the first round of combat, thereby making their character avoid it.

>>51837941
Nothing makes for an exciting game like doing the smart thing and remaining peasants who never go on adventures.

>>51837838
Still part of the Basic Line, whose basic elements Gygax and Kask have handpicked, and which stayed rather similar, through Moldvay and Cook's renditions. Granted, it is a different beast altogether, but the similarities are there, and it's part of the same line of products.

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>>51837990

>implying you can't have adventures while avoiding combat

Daily reminder not to fall for bait like >>51837990

>>51838078 c >>51812128

>>51832726
>I still lurk.
Good to know!

>I haven't really given up but I also haven't worked on it lately.
It's okay, I just wanted to know how things are since you stopped posting about it. I even visited your blog sometime ago but it had no updates on the game

>And I think I accidentally skipped a version?
I think you did, the last version you posted here is the one I posted in this thread.

get better!

>>51838093
He isn't implying that.
He's implying adventuring is reckless.
Which holds even when you try to be cautious.

>>51838100
Preeeetty sure that's satcasm, buddy.
It's too thick to be anything else.

Also context.
It's telling off >>51837941, for suggesting that characters always die in combat.
Or more specifically, telling off the corollary (that it's reasonable/possible to *always* avoid combat).

>>51837702
Fair enough. I'd say it was "out" in '78 though.
Tacking the Monster Manual onto OD&D isn't AD&D, but the Player's Handbook + DM fiat sure is.

>>51838770
But AD&D is nearly unplayable without the DMG
What people did was just steal classes and play it like basic.
That's not playing AD&D, it's playing a houseruld B/X

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>>51838265
Yeah, my blog's been neglected too. I've got stuff I'm working on that I'll throw up this week.

I'm trying.

For retards who use XP bonus/penalties for Prime Requisite:

Is there a (significant) difference if you just give the bonus XP when gaining a level?
Example: a Fighter with STR 18 starts with 200 XP.

>>51839207
XP only matters at level up, so the math works out the same.
...that's actually a really good idea.

>For retards who use XP bonus/penalties for Prime Requisite
I also don't use Greyhawk ability bonuses. Or wisdom (or clerics).
Intelligence gives languages, but I otherwise *only* use Prime Requisites for class aptitudes.

>>51837831
Some people like the risk.
Some people see it as a problem to solve (eg. if I'm likely to die in the first round, what can I do to avoid it?).
Retainers and playing multiple characters was a standard operating procedure in these old games. Losing one guy doesn't matter so much.

Anyone with a positive attitude about gaming and strategy and probably life in general are perfectly happy playing a game like this.

If you're easily frustrated by failure, or prone to rage or depression then stick to newschool stuff.

>>51839384
Thanks anon. Laziness can be a poweful muse.

Now I need to come up with a similar way to calculate encumbrance accurately...

>>51837398
My nigger.

What games do you use?

>>51837402
2th level MU.
Spells known: Light, Sleep
Spells memorized: Sleep, Sleep

Yes?

>>51839646
Subtract your gear from your weight allowance at the start of (or before) the session.


Note down [gp/encumbrance-limit]


Encumbrance limit changes when you gain (or more likely, lose) gear.
That doesn't come up too often, so math is rarely needed.

GP adjusts when you gain (or occasionally lose) treasure.
So basically you just check for when you pick up too much treasure.

Hey /osrg/, lets say I'm working on a bestiary for a retroclone that's different enough from b/x and other retroclones that it's easiest just to make my own bestiary. What should be in it? dragons are obvious, and some forms of undead, but what about the goblinoids? Orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears? Just one of them? More? What else? Krakens? Owlbears? Xorns? What do you think of as classic/defninitive for a bestiary?

>>51840044
Owlbears are a must
Dont put in beholders those are copyrighted

Kobolds are the best always put them in

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I just saw this snipped of the Astonishing Swordsmen Hyporborea map, and I find it looks incredibly inspiring. Does anyone have something of similar production quality? I'd love to just take such a world map and improvise the actual location details

>>51839646
>>51839907
What I do right now is use the B/X table, first part only. It boild down to what armor you wear, and if you carry treasure (of any kind, even a scroll).
So you move at your armor's rate. Carrying treasure? use next row in the table. You are still limited by how you carry your torch weapons, treasure and such, so it works "ok" normally.

Are there any hidden zine adventure gems? I've been reading through Dragon and Dungeon and, while many of them could be interesting one-shots, none of them seem particularly compelling to play over the commercial adventures.

>>51840044
At least a few flavors of dragon
At least a few flavors of savage humanoid
At least a few flavors of Supernatural Evil (Such as Demons)
At least a few potentially hostile natural animals
At least a few weird but mostly animal-like monsters such as Owlbears or Perytons.
At least one flavor of Giant (Preferably more: Giant/Ogre/Troll is a decent set. Can overlap with the savage humanoids)
At least one Slime that can go and attack people
At least one Man-eating Plant
At least one Construct (Golem, animate statue, and animate armor would be a fairly complete suite)
Some kind of burrowing worm/wurm because Dune for no apparent reason.
Zombie and Skeleton
Vampire
At least one form of "Ghost" (Non-corporeal undead)
Additional forms of Undead (Particularly "higher" corporeals like Ghouls) to taste.
At least one sort of fairy/Fair Folk even though most people never fight them
Probably have entries for more 'civilized' groups like elves and dwarves.
At least one sort of Angel, even though most people never fight them.
Merfolk and at least one other aquatic creature, even though nobody ever fights them.
Hazards (such as sessile molds/fungi, green slime, rot grubs, etc. Things that don't mess you up unless you touch them) to taste.
Further Mythological monsters to taste.
Optionally season with That One Monster that's just there to be the biggest badass in the book (see: Tarrasque)
Optionally season with the Asshole Monster that isn't really a threat except it has one ability that will fuck you the hell up if you mess with it (See: Stoning monsters like cockatrices)
Optionally Season with one or more things cribbed from Lovecraft (Shoggoth, Elder Thing, Star Spawn, whatever)

>>51840761
Something, something, Judge's Guild... ?

>>51840044
First and foremost I'd want the bestiary entries to be less like faggy descriptions of ecology and what colors they come in and more like the OD&D description of orcs: useful, crunchy guidelines for setup purposes. I'd suggest adjusting the number of goblinoids and so on based on how many different, good procedures of that kind you can invent.

>>51840168
>Owlbears are a must
I think owlbears are proprietary game content too, my dude.

Been buying OSR stuff but unable to play for a few years. Going to set aside some time and try to get a fortnightly/monthly game going.

I have all of this shite I've bought. I want to run it. But it would probably take decades to do each one. What do you think would happen if I threw it all on to one 30x20 hex map? I have (I think) all of the LotFP catalogue, plus a few DCC adventures.

What do you think would happen if I merged Carcosa, Isle of the Unknown, Peril on the Purple Planet, World of the Lost, Qelong, etc. all on to one map?

Crazy fun clusterfuck or crazy unplayable, incomprehensible clusterfuck?

Any suggestions for more material to throw in. I'm collecting old TSR modules, which I'll probably throw in too (Isle of Dread, anyone!?).

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>>51840044

Make them up. Make them weird.

>>51842263
>What do you think would happen if I merged Carcosa, Isle of the Unknown, Peril on the Purple Planet, World of the Lost, Qelong, etc. all on to one map?
Carcosa kind of IS a map already, and it's hard to combine in that way, since it's so far from baseline D&D. You can combine it with other stuff, but I'd suggest using it as a bleak alternate dimension or similar rather than as the area next door to WotL Africa.

>>51842257 #
>The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master, Monster Manual, d20 System, Wizards of the Coast, d20 (when used as a trademark), Forgotten Realms, Faerûn, proper names (including those used in the names of spells or items), places, Red Wizard of Thay, the City of Union, Heroic Domains of Ysgard, Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo, Windswept Depths of Pandemonium, Infinite Layers of the Abyss, Tarterian Depths of Carceri, Gray Waste of Hades, Bleak Eternity of Gehenna, Nine Hells of Baator, Infernal Battlefield of Acheron, Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus, Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia, Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia, Twin Paradises of Bytopia, Blessed Fields of Elysium, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Olympian Glades of Arborea, Concordant Domain of the Outlands, Sigil, Lady of Pain, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanar’ri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan-ti.

>All of the rest of the SRD is Open Game Content as described in Section 1(d) of the License.

tl;dr
• named NPCs
• planescape
• forgotten realms
• beholder (+ mini-beholder)
• mind flayer (+ gith____)
• umber hulk (but not neogi?)
• carrion crawler
• displacer beast
• yuan-ti
• Book of Exalted Deeds (the demi-artifact)
• Book of Vile Darkness (ditto)

5e claimed a few more things (Dragonborn, etc.) IIRC?
Owlbear are still fair game though.

For those of you that like dragon magazine.

https://dnd.rem.uz/

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>>51842263
The Party Train travels between the different cities/empires/legions. It runs on rails of pure Luxury (made from the most expensive materials in each hex sufficient to assemble into rails. Rails disassemble after the train passes.). The Party Train never stops. The Part Train /can/ never stop. Dancing is mandatory. Compartments are segregated. Do you have an invitation? What's that Balor doing in the punch bowl? Someone fetch us more wine!

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>>51842263
>Any suggestions for more material to throw in.

Slavs.

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>>51842263
add Yoon-Suin to the map while you're at it, maybe through dimensional shenanigans possibly end up in City of Empire from Weird Adventures as well

>>51842323
That is kind of the idea. So whatever exists in hex 05.07 in each of these products all exist in the same hex and interact with each other.

Cool or too too hard to make work?

>>51842263
Sounds good to me, just come up with ways in which all of those things merge. As long as the hex- and dungeoncrawling still does what it's supposed to do, it'll be good.

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>>51843437
Cool. You have to move fast though. Work off impressions and short paragraphs. Chug an energy drink and start working your way around the hexmap. Be inconsistent and weird - the real world is. Just look at Belgium.

But don't slow down or start nitpicking.

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>>51843437
Might be worth posting it on /tg/ or creating a blog. I'd support it.

Pick a "capital hex" for each setting that's non-overlapping, and then work your way from there.

>>51843851
>>51843956
I think i would do it in miltiple passes. The first pass would be yo simply noye down what is in each hex from each product, with maybe a page ref.

After that i'd start trying to make sense of it.

What would be the best way to start?
A .txt with the above, or a spreadsheet with each cell representing a hex and a mouseover note with its contents?

>>51840044
Look through other bestiaries and take note of what they already did. Please don't be like every other writer and just cram a bunch of folkloric monsters in it because everyone and their mother has monster manuals filled with provincial slavic fairies and Southeast Asian undead no 48325.

how good is far away lands?

Can we all agree that Gygax was one of the worst writers in TTRPG history?

Underrated OSRs?

>>51845692
we can all agree that Gygax wrote things

>>51845528
I'd use a text document. It's quicker, and you can always convert it into a table later.

Just go, "Ok, Hex 1,1 has a... [grabs modules] giant city made of elephant bones, an ocean tile, a desert tile with tigers that smoke opium, and the Lair of the Fairy Queen's Mutant Babies."

Then think for no more than a minute, go "Right, so, fairies have built a city of bones that hops from sandy island to sandy island. They've done this because they are all stoned as fuck. The tigers make a killing extorting the island dwellers. Done."

Write it down, move on. Hex 1,2...

>>51845710
Beyond the Wall.
AS&SH
BFRPG

>>51845710
Mutant Future
Silent Legions

>>51845710
Pars Fortuna needs more love

>>51845718
Pretty sure he either used a ghost writer or co-wrote all "his" works.

>>51845940
What's your point - are you gonna re-write his work for clarity?

>>51845930
what is that?

>>51845999
http://matt-landofnod.blogspot.co.nz/p/pars-fortuna.html

>>51846038
also forgot to mention, the creator recently announced that he's working on a second edition

>>51846171
What's wrong with the first edition?

>>51846221
nothing, he mostly wants to bring it more in line with his Bloody Basic series, add more options for each playable race, and add more art, he has a post outlining all of this;

http://matt-landofnod.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/rediscovering-pars-fortuna.html

>>51839660
LotFP with Ruinations, mostly due to nice layout.

>>51845710
Heroes & Other Worlds

>>51846242
>Bloody Basic
I can't believe that guy made like 5 different versions for five different settings and charges $10 each for them.

>>51837449
It doesn't predate b/x, but I can see what they mean - basic intentionally didn't include all the material from the od&d supplements that went into ad&d, so it's kind of an older, purer, more od&d version.

If you squint.

>>51840761
One of the Metal Gods zines has a DCC funnel that's basically The Warriors, with some cool tables and such for rolling up other gangs they meet.

>>51842546
>displacer beast
Yeah but you can just use the couerl from ae van vogt's sf story and it'll look the same, even if it's not teleporting. have a crazy wizard put a cursed amulet of teleportation on it that makes it teleport randomly.

So, anon's, I'm wanting to run World of the Lost and want to expand it by quite a bit to be a proper campaign from levels 1 to around 10 (it says it's for 1-4 or so). Any suggestions? The world takes place in 1640, the world gone mad in the 1620's when the Pendle Witches are a legit thing and tear the veil between worlds asunder. Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and worse port in, bringing with them magics, warped magical zones and new lands and faiths into the world. Some establish their own petty states, others are subsumed into others, many are treated worse than Jews and made outcast if not lynched. England though quarantines them into their own little territories at the periphery in exchange for fealty to the king (Charles II) in hopes of using them as strange shock troops against his naysayers. Primarily, he wants to secure his rule and deport his enemies to the colonies where they can expend their energy surviving there and avoiding him.

>>51842263
If you are doing that, at least try to get some of the outdoor survival map on there.

>>51845692
it was all downhill from od&d, much like lucas.

b/x is his Empire - someone else did it before he was powerful enough people couldn't say no to him

and then he got kicked out.

>>51847166

>teleporting Coeurl

PANIC!

>>51847173
Meant Charles I, but still.

Also, it's not letting me upload the map of Europe and Eastern North America for some reason...

>>51847452
was able to upload it here >>51847798 for some reason though...

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>>51832502
Katsuya Terada's art, Empire of the Petal Throne plus Demon's Souls.

>>51842546
>mind flayers
>umber hulks

oh shit, those are some of my favorite "fuck the players" type of monsters. No wonder no other retroclone has properly converted them.

>>51842783
>they're always aware that their task is to ruin everything

and that ruins this story.
It would be funny and interesting if the combination of real-history and fake history is what would be taken into account for the changes in the setting but having that line makes it just some lolsorandumb shit.

I'm thinking about doing an alternate magic system where Wizards get a random(?) power every level to augment their magical abilites.

These power include things like being able to grow claws, or swallow a small creature and keep them safely inside their stomach, or growing out your hair super long and using it as a rope or whip, and so on.

>>51848103
That's workable, but only if they have to roll their memorization slots off the same chart.
Or if their powers eat into their "spells known" capacity.
O

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>>51832502
Wacky & weird Beast-Men get in odd adventures & shenanigans

>>51848142

>eat into their 'spells known' category

That was my original idea, but I kind of want to try something weird and a bit weaker for the primo magic system. Still hard to decide exactly. Something item based? Maybe everyone can pick up a fire wand, but mages get a bit of a bonus? Kind of like that idea for a high fantasy setting.

>>51848560
MUs can (gradually) recharge non-depleted magic items?
MUs receive "free" magic items at level up?
As both above, but only recharging their "free" items?

MUs can Read Magic umpteen times per day, non-MUs are stuck activating scrolls blindly (or trying to recognize duplicates)?

MUs "memorize" their spells into items (if the item is lost before use, the spell slot is "jammed" until it's recovered)?
(If it's a magic item, possibly allowing the MU to expend the memorized spell to operate a special power of the item)

>>51848861

I like pretty much all of those solutions.

Truth be told I dislike games that focus too much on the magical battery or charging element of magic, but there is a bit of that in popular culture around magic items and it's important for game balance.

Maybe Wizards can choose to either coax out extra uses when they use an item, up to an including a very high level Wizard getting unlimited uses out of a minor trinket (and making sure none of the normies use it for fearing of ruining its mojo, which I think is quite fitting) Or they can make the thing fire off as strongly as possible instead.

Basically though I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea of a setting where magical weapons are relatively common. Maybe a bit more expensive then like a bow and arrow but fulfilling the same function and anyone can use it. Wizards simply use it the best.

>>51832502
Mega dungeon with city above it, economy supported by dungeon crawlers.

>>51829573
google "fellowship of the bling"
amazing reports of murderhoboing tales in 100% proc-gen dungeons, and playing RAW

But that will spoil you. You're supposed to learn by trial and error. Imagine you're playing Dark Souls (or Nethack). Better even, imagine this is not a game and you're there, a meat-person in fantasy-vietnam.

>>51845710
B/X

Seriously, none of the retroclones are even close (maybe BFRP or LL...)

>>51849919
>B/X
>underrated

Wut.

>>51850268
[Well rated] and [not rated as well as deserved] are not mutually exclusive.

>>51849919
>>51850402
Alright then gentlemen, I have to ask, why should I play original B/X over LL?

I tried simplifying encumbrance. Is this correct in b/x, RAW? Is it reasonable?

Wearing Leather? +4
Wearing Chain or Plate? +6
Carrying full small sack (200 coins)? +2
Carrying full large sack (600 coins)? +2
Carrying full backpack (400 coins)? +4

Non-coin treasure uses the weight table: a chain mail (400) fills a backpack.

Encumbrance:
16+ Unable to move
8+ 30'
6+ 60'
4+ 90'
Less = unencumbered, 120'

Ate there any OSR clone not listed here? I already read most of them and want to know if there is any hidden gem I'm missing

http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

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>>51850508
I find B/X easier to navigate, presentation-wise.

>>51850508
It's better.

>>51850268
It's underrated in the whole sort of general mish-mash of people who play RPGs, because a whole lot of people bought into the "it's got advanced in the name" thing and 3e (heavily into the ad&d side of things) somehow memetically became "the way TRUE D&D was always meant to be" for an awful lot of people.

>>51850508
>>51850838
LL is ok for reference, but misses the point in what BX should be, and adds a bloatload of "mah houserules".
IMHO most clones are made by people burnt with modern games, that carry over the 'roll d20 against a DC' syndrome when writting their "BX but better" game.

>>51850868
True.

>>51850964
BX is a solid board game with some combat and lots of room for freeform play. It enables roleplaying.
Clones are roleplaying games about combat, with rules to enforce certain kind of play.

>>51850964
>LL is ok for reference
Yeah, it's more playable than OSRIC, but reminder that OSRIC, the first retroclone, was originally intended to give people a totally legit SRD rules reference so they could publish AD&D supplements and modules. They were confused when people wanted to actually play OSRIC, because, er, no, you're meant to play AD&D, OSRIC's just a legal thing you guys.

Unfortunately some of OSRIC's reference nature came across in other early clones - they were intended as fully playable games, but the writers hadn't really internalised that no, really, you're writing a whole game, or at least didn't want to totally replace the original.

>>51850509
You could simplify it a bit more. Divide everything by 2, so the encumbrance unit is the Full Small Sack (200 coins)

Btw, Large sack would be +6, or +3 simplified.

I don't have the book by me but I think your numbers add up.

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>>51850509
>I tried simplifying encumbrance. Is this correct in b/x, RAW?
Since you seem to be dividing weights by 100, going by RAW, your armor values are off (should be 2, 4, 5, respectively), but I'm assuming you purposefully modified them. Essentially, you're using hecto-coin weight as the basis of your system, which is ten pounds. You might want to put that down as "stone". Since stone weight apparently varied over time, region, and application, you have a range of possible values that 10 pounds fits right into.

Also, in case you haven't seen it before, pic is an encumbrance system specifically based on stone.

>>51829254
>I understand that in OSR style dungeon crawling using Basic D&D you're supposed to avoid combat right.

Keep in mind this is just a meme that grognards use to feel superior and so they can call you an idiot when you die.

>But I don't really see how one goes about "avoiding fights" in OSR when most of the game you're meant to go into the vietnam-like mazes full of monsters.

Good observation. You generally can't.

>>51851155
You can't? Reaction table says only a 3% of the encounters are straight up hostile. Plus: running.

>>51851117
No, I'm using the values in the Character movement table
>The encumbrances of the types of armor do not exactly match the coin weights, but when the encumbrance of the character's weapons, shield and gear are added, the encumbrances are about equal to these weights.

I read it as: use this values here, but refer to the table with anal detail when you need anal detail.
I don't need anal detail (generally) but i want to go as btb as possible.

>>51851232
>Reaction table says only a 3% of the encounters are straight up hostile.

Fair point, but modules generally stipulate how monsters will behave. I refuse to believe that old school modules are not, in fact, relevant to old school play. Similarly, if the DM has a particular reason for a dungeon, it will probably include the notion that monsters are there as guards.

>running

You generally can't run either. Maybe party of thieves and magic users vs 9" and below humanoids.

>>51851232
>The encumbrances of the types of armor do not exactly match the coin weights, but when the encumbrance of the character's weapons, shield and gear are added, the encumbrances are about equal to these weights.
People wearing chain mail carry heavier weapons and shit than people wearing plate mail?

>>51845692
After the 3LBB themselves, the 1e DMG was the single most revolutionary book in RPG history. So no.

>>51851380
It was a badly-written mess, but yeah, there's plenty to salvage from the shit prose. It's a nice single-source supplement for the LBB.

GYGAX YOU ARE NOT JACK VANCE. STOP TRYING TO WRITE LIKE JACK VANCE. YOU ARE FAILING AND IT HURTS.

>>51851356
That's what the book says. "Metal armored" is just one category.
If you check the weight table, Chain is only 'a Shield away' from Plate. (chain 400, plate 500, shield 100).

>>51851287
True. I hate when modules change the rules in the main rulebook. I want my 1-3 level characters go to the Caves of Chaos because I say so, ffs! No stupid hexcrawl until Expert!

But you can still roll reaction for most monsters. Maybe the kobolds think the party are the cultist neighbours, on a courtesy visit?
Obviously applying penalties, and ignoring the roll when the shit hits the fan.

>>51851404
>a badly written mess

It doesn't matter much if you think it was good or not, the 1e DMG is probably THE reason that D&D endures while third party garbage withers and dies (not really talking about anything OSR or D&D-ish).

Its an analysis of how to run a campaign, from the perspective of someone who has ran campaigns. You will notice that pretenders and usurpers are pretty good at making "book of characters and maybe magic," sometimes are capable of making "book of antagonists and/or beasties," but they generally pride themselves on eschewing the most basic lessons learned of D&D of them all; random tables for stuff, how to handle progression from weak to strong monsters, from weak to strong loot, making the outdoors more than a bit of flavor text possibly punctuated by a random encounter (you can genuinely make an entire bretty gud campaign just using wilderness stocking rules for stronghold clearing). Such lessons learned are ignored in the name of "Freedom!" and "IMAGINATION!" ignoring the fact that they are just there as guidelines you can deviate from whenever you want anyway.

Granted, a lot of this does also show in in 3LBB, not even 0.00000001% trying to imply it does, but it should be required reading for anyone thinking about making a hippy frou frou third party game.

>>51851489
>But you can still roll reaction for most monsters.

You can, I just hate when people purposefully lead newbies to OSR astray with revisionist nonsense.

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>>51851287
>You generally can't run either.
>he doesn't throw lamp oil malatov cocktails behind him at chokepoints
RAW, fire stops (or stalls/repaths) persuit

I'm a new DM, toying with B/X. I have a power-hungry player - a good player, but potential powergamer.

>Armor is cheap. Weapons too.
>Race as class is limited.
>Spells and spell choice are limited as fuck.
>Magic items are fairly common, tho

Is it possible to powergame/minmax BX? If so, how?

Bonus: what would be the spell selection of a 6th level power-hungry combat-oriented MU? Spells are 2 2 2. And how to keep him in check? (I'm thinking about running a quick E6-ish campaign)

>>51851610

I suppose running through burning oil is probably one form of retreating that is going to commonly work, at least for the survivors (whereas, say, hold portal-ing rests on the assumption that you can, in fact, get away from the monsters to begin with, which is inherently stupid and almost certainly a waste of a spell slot early on), depending on how often you put oil down.

>>51851707
Sleep/Web/Fireball probably

>>51851707

Not the same guy but I have a related question:

What is gold typically used for in B/X, and what are some good uses for gold?

The moment a low-level adventurer gets their first piece of treasure worth a few hundred gp, they can buy one of everything in the Basic rulebook.

Gold spent = XP seems to be a common houserule, but what are PCs spending that on before they can afford a galley or a castle?

>>51851925
1: XP--main feature of gold and what keeps them so hungry for coin
2: Food--every trip to the dungeon costs quite a lot in food
3: Cleric Spells--aside from resurrection, there are a number of cleric spells such as cure disease the players may need
4: Replacement equipment--ruined armor, arrows, oil, etc.
5: Pay a sage to id magic items
6: hire and equip retainers.
7: bribe dungeon encounters, pay for services in dungeons

Players will be poor, in general. Even if the party is rich. Getting loads of treasure won't happen unless there's a ton of them, and that means splitting.

Houserule some carousing tables in, if you feel like it - but I doubt you'll need them.

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>>51851747
>I suppose running through burning oil is
Why would you run THROUGH the fire? You can start it behind you (but before the monsters).

>>51851925
Magical research is specifically an expensive thing, finding information on new tombs to loot, a sweet waggon to haul your loot, taxes from local lords on your waggon of loot, horses/mules for your waggon of loot, waggon drivers, mercenaries, etc. to keep your waggon from getting stolen, lodging, food, training, getting drunk for your mercenaries, a townhouse to keep your shit until you can afford to start building a keep, bribes to local guards to make sure your townhouse stays safe while you're out of town, house keepers, all the shit you want to have huge parties on a whim because you survived the underworld.

Mo' money mo' problems. But at least you're not a dirt farmer.

>>51851763
You'd run at least one Charm Person per day 'til your hireling slots fill.

>>51851925
>Gold spent = XP seems to be a common houserule,
>houserule
You... uh, you playing 2e or something, buddy?
That's not a houserule, that's *the* main xp rule.

>>51851232
>>51850509
If you want to really simplify things, you could do something like
Unarmored 12 / 12- / 9+
Leather 12 / 9+ / 9
Chain 9 / 9- / 6+
Plate 9- / 6+ / 6

Those are your movements with light gear / moderate gear / heavy gear. ("Gear" meaning everything other than armor.) Additionally, a character can be very heavily burdened, which reduces movement by another 3 in all cases (to 6+, 6, 3+ and 3 for leather, chain and plate, respectively).

The + and - can be ignored, if you prefer, but indicate how much elbow room you have in that category. A + means that you can afford to carry a bit extra without dropping to the next category. A - means you're decently close to the edge.

Moderate Gear is maybe 20 or 30 pounds (200 or 300 coin weight), and is probably the standard for an adventurer who is unburdened by treasure. Light Gear requires you to be rather minimalist.

From there, you can just use your own judgement about how much gear people are toting. If you want actual numbers, removing or adding 10 pounds will generally move you up or down one category from the one you start in (since it's assumed that you're somewhere in the middle of it), with an additional 200 required for each additional category.

So assuming a standard Moderate Gear load starting out.
-10 pounds = Light Gear
base line = Moderate Gear
+10 pounds = Heavy Gear
+30 pounds = Very Heavy Gear

A + (or -) in your armor movement table, should you decide to pay attention to them, simply give you 5 pounds more (or 5 pounds less) of wiggle room.

Small Sack full of coins (500 coins*) = 10 pounds (1 category)
Large Sack full of coins (1500 coins*) = 30 pounds (2 categories)
Backpack full of coins (1000 coins*) = 20 pounds (1 1/2 categories)

*Recalibrates coins to weigh 1/50 rather than 1/10 of a pound (meaning that a coin would technically be 1/5 "coin weight", going by the rules). Why do this? It fits the categories better and is much more in line with the historical weight of coins.

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>>51851925
Not that it keeps things going for long, but I support stretching the costs of basic equipment, so there is a significantly larger gap between cheap items and expensive one. Pic uses the silver standard, so the costs are given in "silvers". If your game uses the gold standard (like actual D&D does), then the numbers remain the same, but are the cost in GPs rather than SPs.

>>51852167

Gold SPENT, not treasure recovered, so the PCs have to actually spend what they loot. Comes up as a suggestion in these threads quite often.

>>51851707
Don't start people you're worried about powergaming at level 6.

>>51852195
Thanks for your imput, but that sounds more complex than the original tables... and a lot less precise.

You have No-armor, Leather and Metal-armor. If you carry treasure, you jump to the next category. If you carry weapons or armor and don't wield/use them, you have to check their weight; but otherwise you can count treasure by its value.

>>51852126
don't know how Charm Person interacts with that sort of thing in b/x

>>51852385
Not an option. Super small town, I'm lucky there's a couple of guys interested. Me engrish is real bad for internet games, unless it's play by post.

Speaking of which, I just started a pbp game and it sucks SO much. I hate waiting a full day to advance 10 in-game minutes. I can't even imagine how combat is going to be...

Can someone share a off of that one page dungeon that is a crashed UFO? Thanks.

>>51852480
Check the duration on Charm Person. A single cast can easily last weeks.

So you can Charm a bunch of stooges or ogres in the days leading up to your adventure.
Then have all the benefits of several days worth of charming people on top of your daily spell allotment.

>>51852484
>I just started a pbp game and it sucks SO much.
Not OSR by any stretch of the imagination, but has anyone anywhere ever run this?
http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/04/08/twittertop-rpg/

>>51840044
Flailsnails are gods blessings my freindo

>>51852484
Why is there being a limited pool of players a constraint on what level you start at?

Like, if you want to start at level 6 go for it. But if you also want to discourage powergaming, that could be counterproductive.

>>51852749
E6 means that you stop gaining levels at 6th level - you start at 1st.
You still advance, but usually via feats. In BX I guess it'll be more about finding magic items, researching spells, and non-combat stuff.

I was asking for a MU 'build' to know what I should expect by the end of the campaign.

>>51852836
Ohhhhhhhhhh. I get it. My bad.

How do you all handle identifying potions the party finds? Do you have some mechanic for discerning the effects or do they have to just try it and find out?

Very curious.

How compatible is ACKS with B/X? Can I pick and choose the parts I need for a B/X campaign?

>>51850868
>it's got advanced in the name
I actually never got into AD&D because it had advnaced in the name

and as a dumb kid I thought I was supposed to start with the less advanced rules

jokes on me bx was never translated into my language so I ended up avoiding classic D&D completely until 3e

>>51851380
>the 1e DMG
as in the AD&D 1e dmg?

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any opinions on Lamentations ? i currently run 5e but the flavor of lamentation, the setting, the weirdness... is so appealing. even if people hate the system because of the author and i cant get a decent advice on /tg/ about the game because of this problem. is it a system worth exploring or i should just stick to 5e and convert some adventures from Lamentations ?

>>51852942
The default sampling rules.
PCs that don't use a hireling or a captive deserve any poisons they swill.

>>51852962
ACKS is closer to B/X than DCC, possibly closer than AD&D.
DCC and AD&D adapt to B/X just fine.

>>51852942
I use the ol' roguelike style
>all potions of X have the same colour/texture/taste, decided at the start of the campaign

thus if they identified by testing a potion of cure light wounds, then they will easily identify all potions of cure light wounds

>>51853067
/osrg/ likes LotFP, in spite of >raggi

If your group is comfortable with 5e, just adapt material to 5e
Maybe run a one-shot in LotFP to test the waters, but never EVER force a system change

>>51853043
Yes.

>>51853067
I run LotFP more than any system. It's just B/X with some good tweaks. A simple skill system, a good encumbrance system, firearms, heightened AC, removed dumb things like weapon restrictions.

I like it, tho my personal game uses a bunch of house rules and added classes.

>>51850964
>LL is ok for reference, but misses the point in what BX should be, and adds a bloatload of "mah houserules".

Well, that's why it's a good thing there's that "B/X" clone we were talking about a thread or two back. Some folks were ripping on it for basically being a reformatted reprint of B/X with no houserules. Like "why would you want that lol"?

>>51851155

Nonsense, I've been playing since the early 80s and running away and finding ways around monsters is hugely important to your survival.

>>51851380
I have to agree. Most RPGs just have a single chapter on "how to be a DM".

To this day, all editions of D&D make sure to have an entire book on that subject, making it a much lower barrier for entry into DMing.

I think more games should have GM handbooks. Specially games with a specific setting like shadowrun, or WoD, they really should explain better how the usual campaign is expected to be run.

One ring adventures on the edge of the wilds actually does this right and has a loremasters book and it is great.

>>51853067
Flavor: It has none of that, except in the covers.
System: It's ok as a transition game if you are used to 'd20 against a DC I just decided!', but I'd just play B/X. It has its own philosophy and it's a bliss to run.

Either way, I suggest you run it RAW, even if your players complain.

>>51853190
>good
hmmm...
Encumbrance is simpler in BX, read this thread.
Higher AC makes fights last longer, and more swingy.
Removed weapon restrictions and to-hit bonus unbalance the game, which forces you to rely on encumbrance and other minutae... a hack.
Interesting tactical options like two-handed initiative are also removed, despite being very simple to run.
Skills turn the mysterious, pulpy Thief into a bland, modern skill monkey.

The game is a wreck beyond 3th level. Just try.

>>51853190
>houserules
Oh yeah, you'll need lots of those.
Like I said, I'd rather play B/X RAW.

>>51853190
What're your house rules?

>>51853256
Which one? I'm super interested in having a RAW-compliant B/X rulebook in just one volume. Just the BX rules, together, cleaned up. Hyperlinked and indexed would be nice. Clear wording would be amazing too.

I NEED to know, because I'm one beer away from starting this myself.

>>51853376
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/186615/BX-Fantasy-Roleplay
there you are

>>51853371
Off the top of my head:

• PCs have max HP at lvl. 1
• A version of DCCs "Mighty Deeds".
• A Medicine skill.
• Imported classes from BFRPGs supplements.
• XP for treasure at acquisition
• 3 torches/5 rations per encumbrance slot.
• anyone who knows the language can read a clerical scroll.
• Animal Companions/Familiars with a morale score; if tasked to do something, must roll a morale check.

Lately I've been using a d12 skill system that is modified by Ability scores.

>>51852992
>I ended up avoiding classic D&D completely until 3e

I would go back in time and punch myself for such a cruel prank.

>>51853471
Too bad the art is bad (nonexistent?) and layout worse than the original...

Time to drink that beer I guess.

>>51853514
>XP for treasure at acquisition
?
Does LoFP not use gold=xp?

>>51853735
I thought of that many times I'll admit

>>51853893
I wouldn't know, I don't have it... A neat and pure B/X clone would be nice indeed

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In your system or opinion, is the creation of Potions of Healing (and potions in general) a process of herbalism or magic?

>>51853902
They do (well, silver) but the rules emphasize XP is only awarded after the silver/treasure has been "returned to a safe location".

Since I've mostly ran LotFP using a World of the Lost hexcrawl campaign, that is a touch unfair to players.

>>51853902
>Does LoFP not use gold=xp?

Yes, but you have to bring it back, I guess he lets you get the XP when you acquire the gold for some reason?

>>51853913
Me neither, but I found this preview
https://books.google.nl/books?id=Y0HLDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT83&lpg=PT83&dq=b%7Cx+fantasy+roleplay&source=bl&ots=Qs4PNsEElD&sig=bHiFt4ear93VLlQf5h30pG0xCS8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOrpfq7JfSAhWHF8AKHUl5CAkQ6AEIMDAE#v=onepage&q=b%7Cx%20fantasy%20roleplay&f=false

>>51853951
>>51853949
oh okay, makes sense

>>51853256
>Like "why would you want that lol"?

The source of derision wasn't "why would you want that" it was "why would you BUY that for $10".

>>51854260
For real. You can dl B/X in the trove and get a professionally bound print done for that cost.

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>>51852195
>>51852414
A simpler version.

(Edit: deleted earlier version. This one is slightly tweaked, mostly to make things clearer.)

>>51853924
Pain killers ("temporary" health potions) are more herbalism, health potions are Magic.
But science and innovation is Magic in general, so it's a really blurry line.

>>51853949
Yea I just give it out for anything they've plausibly obtained by the end of the session.
Getting it back to a safe place is fine if you've got a stable group, but I run my lotfp at an open table.

>>51853285
>a wreck beyond 3th level.
3rd

What are some good Sword and Sorcery settings?

>>51856465 c >>51839667
3th

>>51856513
Hyboria.

>>51852648
>Check the duration on Charm Person. A single cast can easily last weeks.
>So you can Charm a bunch of stooges or ogres in the days leading up to your adventure.
>Then have all the benefits of several days worth of charming people on top of your daily spell allotment.

This, incidentally, is why mages are killed immediately whenever they are positively identified.

>>51856513
Goddammit, there was a great campaign setting I downloaded a while back. Can't remember it's name or system, but it was metal as fuck and still kinda goofy in the Conan way. I remember there were bird people that lived in the mountains of that sparks anyone's memory.

Also, tales from the broken empire for DCC.

>>51851232
There's two reaction tables, anon. The one you're referring to is used for attempting to hire monsters. The text says non-intelligent monsters attack unless otherwise specified, and intelligent ones will only not attack if they can tell it's a bad idea for them to do so, after rolling on the other table, which is like 2 - 6 automatically hostile, 7 - 9 neutral, 10 -12 "friendly" reaction, or so.

Though, before I post this, I'm talking about the 1974 version of the rules. Not the overly simplified crap of later versions.

>>51828400
You can roll to know spells of your choice, in the order of your choosing, until the maximum number of spells / level is achieved or you run out of chosen spells. In 2E. There are multiple "core" ways to do it due to the "optional" provisions.

>>51848379
I read about a DESU hack that makes all the characters play beastmen

Actually it is less of a hack and more of a blog. And it is awesome.

As a player in a sandbox campaign, would you prefer:
a) Being limited to a region about half the length of Europe, but each hex is packed with more stuff. Something like a 30x20 hex grid with ~30mi hexes.
b) May travel anywhere on the planet, but due to the DM being a human being with a limited amount of time in their lives, the content is spread out across the planet. Fewer things to do in each hex.

Pros/cons of both?

>>51858794

The former. Hell, half the length of Europe is far more than I'd need as a player or a GM, not unless we've all got flying carpets. Walking/riding over that is gonna take a while.

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>>51857974
I know this is a pain, but can I get a screencap or a page reference? I've been trying to track down the "definitive" tables for a few hours. Badly.

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>>51858794
Always always always the former.
If people walk off the map, disguise the former to look like the latter.

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>>51858889

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>>51859115
Well, 4chan is cheaper than an IQ test, because I can now say I'm officially retarded.

Turns out it's not spelled "recation".

>>51856465
>>a wreck beyond 3th level.
>3rd
Yeth.

OSR games o like that use mainly D6 or dice pools?

>>51859461
Is that a pipeline?

>>51860155
OD&D mainly uses D6es whenever it doesn't use D20.

>>51858412
got a link to it?

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>>51860155
You can run LBB in all d6s easily enough.
Do attack rolls off the CHAINMAIL man-to-man table.
Also replace all HD with d6s. I don't have the chart got a chart for that, but there's a nice one floating around.

There are a few other tweaks necessary, but not many.
I can't think of them off the top off my head

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>>51860329
>Also replace all HD with d6s. I don't have the chart got a chart for that, but there's a nice one floating around.
This thing?

>>51860638
E x a c t l y

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Anybody know of psionic rules for B/X that are simple enough to fit the feel of it, without having AD&D's thousand charts or having to run it as a minigame outside of actual combat?

I see a lot of options for OSR games that look very similar to the AD&D psionics but none that simplify it to a B/X feel. I requested Powers of the Mind by Harpoon Cannon Gaming in the pdf thread but no luck so far, it seems like the only thing that might suit me (I'm running houseruled ACKS).

>>51861511

Courtney Campbell did a pretty good Psionics book, called Psionics - A New Old School Supplement.

>>51860329
>Do attack rolls off the CHAINMAIL man-to-man table.

Pic/explanation for noob?

>>51861812
I would have posted it, but someone else use the image I have upthread. (c >>51830333)

Pic is self-explanatory, you hit if 2d6 >= AC, you get AC by cross referencing weapons and armor on the table.

>>51851610
>he doesn't throw lamp oil malatov cocktails behind him at chokepoints
but lamp oil doesn't work the way d&d says it does

it's not fucking molotovs ffs

>>51852283
Yeah, it's a good houserule if you're not going domain-level, but by the book it's a damn good idea to save that shit for your sweet castle.

>>51858794
>Something like a 30x20 hex grid with ~30mi hexes.
You know, doing that with 6 mile hexes would be enough for a campaign. You don't need everything to be huge.

You can fit a lot of stuff in a two league hex.

>>51862832
>but lamp oil doesn't work the way d&d says it does
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>51862867
It's not napalm either, jesus christ gamers.

>>51862832

Well, not in our world, but lamp oil in a high magic field is a different story.

It's a game mechanic, and a tactically fun one, don't let realism get in the way of good elf games.

>>51862832
>implying your conception of modern lamp oil is anything like medieval/renaissance/etc. lamp oil
>implying that's anything like that either in a setting full of fanciful beasts, many of which naturally secrete and spew deadly flames

And yes it's fucking molotovs. It's always been molotovs since forever.

>>51862946
>medieval/renaissance/etc. lamp oil

Medieval lamp oil was generally some kind of vegetable oil, which is not easily lit. But yeah, D&D is not real life.

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>>51862973
While we're on about that though, how about a slight derail.

Why does hollywood fantasy and such make torches out to be sticks with a wrapped up grease cloth on them? I've read the sort of thing people actually used was several saturated sticks bundled together, that burned for far longer, and wouldn't go out the moment some rain or wind came their way.

How sensitive are DMs with their players' torches?

>>51863099
> I've read the sort of thing people actually used
That's a super loaded topic because there have been many, many different styles of torches depending on what part of the world at what time you're looking at.

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>>51863099
>Why does hollywood fantasy and such make torches out to be sticks with a wrapped up grease cloth on them?
I blame pic related, at least in part.

>How sensitive are DMs with their players' torches?
Apparently, the Romans chemically treated their torches so they couldn't be quenched by water.

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>>51863099
>sticks with a wrapped up grease cloth on them?
Those were pretty common is some places
>several saturated sticks bundled together,
Which, as often as not, were affixed to a handle

someone needs to make a new thread

>>51863483
We're all bots, and the regular new-thread script is out for debugging.
As the only person here, you'll have to do it.

>>51863638
>>51863638
New thread

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>>51860162
Yup. Clay aqueduct.