Homeworld setting

File: Homeworld_-_Manual_-_PC.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51808632
Read the manual mate

>Does it take place in the distant future or in an alternate universe altogether?
It's in the Whirlpool Galaxy, completely unrelated to real life Earth or anything

>>51808632
>Read the manual
Fuck! I just remembered I need to find my manual!

>>51808773

Damn, I had no idea this existed. I haven't played the original game, got introduced to the series with the remastered version.

File: Homeworld_-_Cataclysm_-_PC.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Also, the Cataclysm manual. Pretty good worldbuilding for stuff after the first game.

Ignore Homeworld 2. That one was pretty shit.

Deserts of Kharak is basically true to the backstory given in the manual, although it does make Gaalsien a much bigger threat to the entire Mothership endeavor.

>>51808885
Yeah the game had a ridiculous amount of backstory that really didn't get mentioned in the game at all.

>>51809099

My impression of Deserts of Kharak was less than impressive, I wasn't fond of the groundbased concept, but maybe I'll give it a shot. I think Homeworld: Cataclysm looks alot more interesting desu. However the old graphics engine hasn't aged well and it all seems a bit too jarring after having played the remaster.

>>51809195
DoK is a very generic RTS. Competent, but nothing special. If you just want the lore, then go for it. If you want a groundbreaking game, DoK is not it.
Also, Cataclysm wasn't remastered because they literally lost the source code. It would have been done if they could have done it without a ton of reverse engineering.

>>51809232

>Cataclysm wasn't remastered because they literally lost the source code

That's a damn shame, Cataclysm looked like one of the few RTS:s with horror elements done right.

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>>51808808
I have unearthed the guidestone!

>>51808632

>tfw remember this game
>tfw played with such intense autism that had to capture EVERY single frigate or larger vessel
>Sort of want to show it to my wife but have the fear that would turn into another autism fest.

By the end of the game, just organizing my fleet was a major chore as they would just string out in a fuckhuge line.

>>51808632
Homeworld is my jam. It was my first RTS, and I bought the remastered version the moment it was available.

I wonder if it would be possible to run a SWN game set in the Homeworld Universe. It would need some serious refluffing, but it's OSR so the fluff is just extra stuff that can be ignored anyways.

Was it ever stated how canon was Cataclysm?
Also we need more horror RTSs, that shit was fantastic.

>>51810193
>Was it ever stated how canon was Cataclysm?
Homeworld 2 completely ignores it, and it was made by a different studio, so it's most likely non-canon

>>51810284
I'm pretty sure they mention the Somtaaw by name

>>51810362
The Somtaaw have been around since HW1, they're in the manual. So are the Soban, the Nabaal, and other kiith, which all began in HW1. But none of the game ever brings up the Beast, the Somtaaw bullying the Bentusi into giving all kinds of cool tech, or any of the events of Cataclysm.

Are the Taidaan, Kushan and most other races mentioned considered human ?

>>51811101
DoK shows Hiigarans as pretty much humans, no mention is made of anybody's biologies being really different from each other, one of the Taiidani was named Elison of all names, and what we see of Makaan shows the Vaygr as being human. So yeah, seems everybody is human, except maybe the Bentusi, although that's more from the "mysterious traders" thing they got going on.

>>51809351
We. Will. Not. Be. BOUND.

>>51811239
By cataclysm, the Bentusi are implied to be physically formless, some sort of energy/spiritual/cybernetic beings that collect knowledge as currency.

>>51812042
I thought they were just infomorphs basically

>>51812042
>>51812215
I'm pretty sure the Bentusi go out of their way to not be known to anyone else. They roll up as a single, massive ship, trade as a single, massive entity, and leave as a single massive ship. Even the Hiigaran diplomats who landed in the Bentusi trade ship got the trading module too fast for any individuals to have passed between the corvette and the trade ship.

Played Homeworld at release. Discovered it from a demo version I found in one of the sample CD's they used to put in game magazines. Shit fucking rocked.

Did they fix the janky-ass control sytem that stopped me from playing the original?

>>51813800
>The most elegant mass 3d movement maneuvering in a video game.
>ever
I can't even tell anymore if you're retarded or this is just bait.

>>51812042
They exchange the Ion Cannon tech for RUs, though. I never knew what would happen if you didn't have enough RUs (300) to pay them.

They also must have some sort of physical body or something the Beast can get at because they were scared shitless of the Beast.

>>51813822
I just remember trying it out a few years ago and being very frustrated by the controls.

>>51812042
Weren't they just permanently wired into the tradeship? Like Kushan did with mothership, well, that wasn't completely permanent but still.

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How about some motherfucking maps

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>>51814076

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>>51814085

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>>51814093

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>>51814111

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>>51814118

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>>51814141

>>51814118
This shit still makes me tear up
>tfw YES were too jew for the remaster

>>51813904
they can be a little odd at first. but once you get used it it its pretty good and intuitive.

>>51808885
You should also check Homeworld: Cataclysms manual and Homeworld 2 manuals for additional lore.

>>51813959
Yes, they're basically a bunch of cyborgs who wired their entire race into their spaceships.

>>51808918
>Dat text on Iifrit Tambuur'sa
Dayum!

>>51809232

Even the lore is....tired. Like in HW2, trying to be deep does not mean to be deep. Merely to be tired and pretentious.

Fake mysticism, yeah.

>>51813873
They were afraid the beast would consume their knowledge, their stories. They didn't fear death, they feared losing access to their information/memory.

>>51815618
They were afraid because the beast didnt need to use their organic parts and so just left them there while the rest of the ship was taken over by beast.
In other words, it would be like your body had been taken over, but your brains and eyes still remained yours, so you could see what was going on yet unable to affect it.

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>>51808885
>Damn, I had no idea this existed. I haven't played the original game, got introduced to the series with the remastered version.

If anything, a reason to hate Gearbox even more. The remaster was garbage, didn't include Cata, and they didn't even bother including the manual

>>51808918
>tfw you have this manual in actual print somewhere

The nostalgia

>>51816070
>didn't include Cata

Wasn't that on account of the sourcecode being lost though? I mean I suppose they could have rebuilt it from scratch, but still.

>>51816120
many suspect gearbox being lazy and not wanting to work that

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>>51816120
>>51816133

Barking Dog is now a Rockstar Vancouver. Therefore the originals are lost. However the code could be probably be reversed off the disc, but it would take more effort, and remasters are usually done by third string teams anyway. Plus theres also some issue that Rockstar owns Cata even though its Homeworld.

Either way, we will never have a remaster of Cata. Probably for the best considering it would have been just as fucked as HW1 was in the remaster

>>51816133
I mean I don't doubt that but remaking an entire game from scratch is a lot of work though. At least the HW1/2 remaster had the original assets such as music and whatnot to work with.

>>51813411
same

It's ironic that this thread even pops up, I was discussing this with a friend just the other day; I love the Homeworld setting, but I have next to no idea on how to make a TTRPG game set in it. The only thing I could see would be being part of the war effort either from the exodus from Kharak or the events of the sequel, but even then it's like, okay sure, you at worst have an interceptor and at best a heavy cruiser, or perhaps I'm just lacking ideas.

A campaign set and focused on scavenging shit in the deserts back on Kharak and shipbreaking and artifact seraching would be neat though.

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>>51816195
>but I have next to no idea on how to make a TTRPG game set in it.

I actually tried one once, a long time ago. I used a modified d20, scavenged a bunch from Spycraft, and wrote up custom classes for each character, including tons of artwork of things like personal weapons, armor, etc.

My group was lukewarm, and my GM at the time thought most of my ideas we're uninspired (specifically my weapon ideas) and that they did not reflect the setting. My attempt to run the game was hampered by players who did not care, did not want to be there, and did everything possible to make the experience as painful for everyone as they could. It didn't help that I was new to GM'ing, and following the advice of the group GM's at the time, which was, always "if you care enough about something, you can't expect anyone else to run it for you - YOU have to do it."

I buried the idea. It requires a group of people who are familiar with the setting, know the details, and actually want to do it, and are not immediately in full "disdain for plebs" mode at the idea of playing in a setting based off a video game

any RPG that could be played whould be, in my >opinion should be MUCH smaller than the games
one destroyer should be the biggest thing you would get IF you can get it
a game of scarvaning and exploration
a somtaaw survey corps
exploring undiscovered places of the universe
a mercenary fleet
that kind of things would make it both big enough to hit the fleet battles and small enough to be managable

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>>51816680

It depends on whether you want to play pilots or bridge crew.

A Corvette can be run by 3 people
A Frigate likely by a dozen, maybe twice that.
Capital Ships like Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers get up into the tens to maybe a hundred people.

>>51816710
im just saing it because it feels better to scavenge some age old carrier to your scrappy fighters/corvette and 2 or 3 frigs thatn just getting it out the door
it like getting your own new home, you get me?

plus its a matter of keeping the number of ships low ish before you have to break the calculators

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>>51816731

Carriers are relatively big, and because they have PAA's, they become something that could fund its own pirate group if it needed to. In the Hiigaran post-landfall time period, a Carrier formed the basis of an entire Kiith Fleet.

Also, anyone itt who is not familiar with Homeworld SHipyards, should be - read the descripts, it has tons of lore fluff in it.

http://shipyards.relicnews.com/

>>51816070
>they didn't even bother including the manual
What. The. Fuck?

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>>51817027
You think that's bad?
Check out what Deserts of Kharak is doing.

>>51818129
pdf where

>>51818129
shipbreakers shouldnt have been turned into a homeworld prequel, it felt a lot stronger as its own thing

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>>51818185
Don't tell the feds, omae

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>>51818474
You're a saint, anon

>>51816798
>that upside down Destroyer
Gets me every time

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I'd totally a play a campaign about bunch of colonists that got on the expedition thinking they'd be settling their birthright, only to get popped out of cryo-sleep months early, told that their home has been burned, and they're about to receive rudimentary tactical training in order to sweep whatever the salv. 'vettes are dragging in.

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>>51820056
During the megalith-centered iteration of HW2's development, that was actually the destroyer design they were going for.

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>>51820248
I really like this design.
Hell, i loved most of the HW1 designs, Qwaar-Jet in particular, but for some reason all of the HW2 ships just look so... flat.

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>>51820376
Well, the design aesthetic is literally flat. Hiigarans are side flat, while Vaygr are tall and long but vertically flat. Even the Progenitor ships are flat. Every big ship draws design cues from a sword blade or something.

>>51820376
The HW2 hiigaran battleship i really like for somre reason, maybe because it is infact flat, i mean rellatively speaking offcourse.

Never really liked the taiidani frigates and capital ships comepared to the Kuushan, did like their corvettes and fighters though.

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>>51820706

>>51808632
That video, that story, that script, that voice acting, that world-building, that music, dat everything. It's art.

Why is there no Galactica-tier series spinoff

>>51819667
Taidan destroyer a shit.

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Hey neat. I found a thing.

http://www.fistsofheaven.com/interview-artist-james-nicholls

>>51821690

Nice, here have some god-tier OST in return

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VlgYgN8qos

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>>51820207
>Akhar checked over his rifle again as the skiff flittered across the Fleet Foundry's immensity, hurrying towards the stricken, bug-like ship floating against the surreal backdrop of the Ion-illuminated nebula. Intellectually, he knew that the Fleet Command's attack AI sub-routines had fried every computer on the ship, after trying their best to open every airlock at once and turn all of the corridors into nightmares of spallation. But it still felt somehow wrong to bring something so *hostile* inside the sacred Mothership itself. Hell, his graduate thesis at Tiir Science Academy had been on theoretical fusion engine designs, so he knew full well what would happen if anyone left alive somehow managed to put the powerplant into overload.

>He glanced at his wrist terminal. The anti-personnel gun platforms had established a full perimeter around the ship. Anything that tried to pop out and take a shot would be instantly reduced to a bloody mist. Or maybe shrapnel. He wasn't entirely sure they were fighting organics - maybe even "humans" - again, though if they were anything like the burners of Kharak and their pirate conspirators, you could hardly call them human. That the ship had airlocks seemed to be a good enough indicaticator, though he couldn't help but notice the complete lack of windows. A map of the ship's interior began to render on the terminal as sonic probes on the ships surface vibrated a rough sketch of its bulkheads and corridors. As far as all the eyes pointed at it could tell, there was no movement inside.

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>>51822358
>A pop-indicated the hunter-killer drones were ready to start their breach. Once they had completely swept the ship, his team would begin their insertition. It was a brazen, headlong rush of a strategy, but Fleet Intelligence needed info on whatever it was they were fighting out there *yesterday*. He looked away from his terminal towards the nine other people strapped into the skiff. Mostly Fleet Security sandheads, along with two popsicles like him. Danala had been on the team when they'd taken the Devils' destroyer. He knew he could rely on her to have his back. Shalah was fresh out of basic, though Akhar knew he'd been popped because of his run in the Desert Scouts. Something to bond over, assuming they - or anyone else in the fleet, for that matter - made it through this day alive.

>Akhar was suddenly pressed into his straps as the skiff came to an abrubt halt. A warning indicator flashed in his suit's HUD. Wordlessly, everyone looked at their terminals. Something inside the bug had taken out a hunter-killer drone. On his map, a dozen dots converged on their fallen bretheren's location. A video feed popped up. Body parts, tattered vac suits. And then, the enemy. A gun-wielding arm reached around a corner and began to blind-fire, only to withdraw as the volley was answered by the massing drones' own. Pinned down. Nothing to be done as two of the drones flew around the corner and saturated the hall with kinetic rounds. The feed clicked over to the flanker's guncams. The shredded, broken thing floated there, red blood pooling in spheres around it. The feed went dead - some sort of sick psy-op trick. Danala said a short prayer over their suit comms. One of the sandheads chuckled.

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>>51822377
>One minute later, the sweep was done and the all-clear was given. Everything inside was dead. Just like in the Ion Array frigate when Medine got a pirate's knife through his faceplate. Just like when one of the Devils' engineers that had been hiding in the vent had almost gotten the manuevering thrusters back online and crashed an Assault Frigate into the cryo storage section. Akhar checked his rifle again. The skiff began its final approach, sidling up to looming insect. A darkened cargo airlock opened cavernously above him. Several other craft began to arrive, unloading men and equipment to begin tearing apart the battered hulk piece by piece. His team unstrapped, did a final cursory check of their kits and suits.

>"Alright," Akhar said as he deactivated the safety on his manuevering pack, "we're go."

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>>51820207

There was a story somewhere where one guy got woken up and told he was the very last member of a Kiith from Kharak - not only was his old clan-state dead, but he was suddenly the "president" of it, and his whole family was dead too.

So, he vowed vengeance, got himself a Frigate, and started hunting bounties against unreformed Imperial Taiidan

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So what was it about Remastered that made so many folks angry?

>>51823191
They changed the gameplay, and Gearbox has a lot of nasty baggage aside.

>>51823165
It's in the Cataclysm Historical brief.

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>>51823191

Primarily, it balanced the first game against the second, as a means to provide cross-game multiplayer.

The first game and the second game, despite having the same mechanics, work in very different ways.

The remaster was also buggy as fuck, because remasters are cash grabs done by no-name dev teams who usually do mobile game shovelware.

They didn't fix the bug in 2 where the AI would start with ships or resources equal to yours at the beginning of the level - so if you have a massive fleet, the level is harder then it would be normally, and its actually possible to cheese the game by retiring all your ships at the end of a level and gimping the AI in the next

And, no Cata.

The best thing about it was that it revitalized the series, and led to a sequel (of sorts) in Deserts of Kharak. Whether that means we'll get more Homeworld games from now, who knows. But Gearbox is likely on its way out anyway.

>>51823191
They ported Homeworld 1 to the Homeworld 2 engine. In the process they changed how combat worked, since in HW1 the ships shot bullets and impacted other ships, while in HW2 shooting things is a special effect and the RNG determines how the ship got shot and how hard. Also they threw out fuel for fighters since the devs never really liked it, even though the players got attached to it.

Six months later, they basically rewrote the HW1 Remaster to go back to the old style combat, but I never checked to see if it was any good since I was playing Deserts of Kharak and had fun, but it was a shit first impression.

>>51823353
>>51823311
>>51823271
Hrm. All right, thanks. And yeah, I'm bummed about the lack of Cataclysm - that game had top tier voice acting, and that's one thing (among many) I missed in Homeworld 2; all the units feel so dry and detached.

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>>51823441

In a way, Cata is the Fallout New Vegas to HW1's Fallout 3, and HW2's Fallout 4.

HW2 wasn't a great game when it came out - it was lacking in every way that made the first Homeworld and Cata great. Its the reason the series died.
(Which makes what the remaster did - converting and balancing a great game to a shit one - all the worse)

Cata was a straight improvement in every possible way on Homeworld 1, and the only real issue with it is that the Campaign is easy mode compared to some of the nightmare levels of Homeworld 1 (to say nothing of the bullshit in the campaign levels of 2)

>>51822358
>>51822377
>>51822415

Noice, anon

are there mods or other ways to reduce the micromanaging? like "everyone fighting in that area, repair when hull gets low"

>>51823513
Keeping in mind that Homeworld2 was basically Sierra sticking their executive meddling dick into Relic's Dust Wars project and announcing that it needed more bullshit newage spiritualism and then taking the project out from under them.

>>51823513
Oh yeah, the Cata campaign wasn't nearly as ridiculous as watching a Kadeshi needleship trundle up and obliterate my mothership, or trying to maneuver my fleet around a shitload of roaming asteroids that can gib frigates, or having all your launched strike craft immobilized straight at the missions start by a gravity thingy because you weren't prescient enough to keep them docked.

Cata seemed to focus more on the storytelling aspect, which I guess fits your analogy spot on.

Also, dat Beast reveal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDcELUCroDs&hd=1

>>51823706
"Yeah good, now after the random as fuck spider ships show up around Hiigara, I want fleet command to yell "Bring sajuuk to bare" so many times that the words stop making sense. I want to suck all the drama out of the event and make it laughable.

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>>51823824

Welcome to Karos

Give me your ships

Kharkh is burning

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>>51823925
NO FUCK YOU
THOSE ARE MY DESTROYERS YOU LITTLE SHIT
COME BACK HERE

Also to make it TT related I made a shitload of rules for including Homeworld ships in Battlefleet Gothic last year, but then the generals died and I became sad

>>51820376
The Qwaar-Jet is probably the best ship ever designed. Remastered was fucked completely. I wish they had put more effort into it and made it work on a flat base RIGHT from the get go.

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>>51823706

While we're one the subject of why HW2 was terrible - it did one thing that was unforgivable. It took the ship-capturing mechanic from HW1 and made it worthless
>HW1
>if you attack a ship with a wing of strike craft in evasive, the ship will target them, and only switch to Sal'vettes at the last moment.
>As long as you have the requisite number of sal'vettes, capture is instant.
>The ship being captured can't fire on the sal'vettes once its been captured.
>HW2
>Marine Frigates immediately become the focus of fire for every enemy ship the moment they come into range.
>Capturing takes time, which means Marine Frigates are taking fire the whole time
>Ships being captured can fire on the Marine Frigate the whole time.

>>51824241
>wah wah the AI wasn't as retarded as a wooden door knob anymore
This is a good thing.

>>51824306
It's still retarded, just not in a fun way. Unless they patched it, moving Marine Frigates in range makes literally all of your other ships untouchable because the AI won't attack anything else.

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>>51824181

>tfw your multilayered plan to capture the Qwaar-jet from the nebula in Cata succeeds, and it stays in your fleet throughout the entire game.
>tfw when it rushes to front to take up guard for Taiidan colony ships, still takes several beast missiles, and doesn't give a fuck
>tfw it gets eaten by the naggarok, and goes down fighting.

>>51824241
To be completely honest, I should NEVER be able to run a train on the ball of ships at the Bridge of Sighs. Capturing literally 50 of them was fucking ridiculous when i figured out how to do it for the first time.

And if i can also be honest, i personally never really liked the whole WOLOLOLOLO aspect of HW2's Marine Frigs.

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>>51824341
That is exactly what happened to me the last time I played it.

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>>51824341
I love last stands and fitting ends like that. I had a SPARK in XCOM 2 fight with me and survive through the whole campaign, only to die, surrounded by the corpses of his enemies, shielding my commander, in the final level.

Also kept one Ion Cannon frigate captured early on in HW all the way through the game. I like to think that they were the greatest of my men, and they were honored accordingly once Hiigara was taken back.

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>>51824306

Thats just one of a laundry list of awful balance changes in HW2
>you can no longer run a strike-craft only force, as strike craft now die too easily
>you can no longer run a layered strike-craft+frigate force because strike craft and frigates die too easily
>every ship class save the Battlecruiser is balanced in such a way to be expendable and work by attrition, because they die too easily.

In HW1, you can layer scouts, interceptors, and bombers together in multiple wings, have the scouts engage to stop a capital ship force, vector the interceptors to engage the fighter screen, use corvettes to back them up, and cut the cap ships apart with bombers, moving frigates in to mop up.

You never had to build a single capital ship if you didn;t want to, and usually they only served to draw aggro while your other ships did the heavy lifting

>>51824417
HW2's Frigates just seemed to kinda suck and it wasn't like you could do anything to heal them like in the previous games.

HW1's frigates were the core of the fleet and things like destroyers and heavy cruisers were like line breakers. HW2 it was like the Frigates were reduced to strike craft you couldn't recall for repairs.

>>51824417
>I should NEVER be able to run a train on the ball of ships at the Bridge of Sighs

Its not entirely easy, and I've always seen it as a reward for players who know how to use ships effectively. If you aren't layering stealth ships and capture ships, you aggro the entire sphere.

>>51824508
I only ever aggro'd like 10 ships at a time using one frig man. The Ai was as stupid as a sack of rocks. I mean the only thing i had to do was get 2 Carriers and like 30 Salvage corvettes and id bring in like 10-15 Ion frigs at a time. Literally just run the train on them.

>>51824482
And then RM gave HW1 frigs armor made from fucking explodium. Look i get the Pulsar Gunships are good against frigs but FFS man one squad of them should NOT kill 3 of my fucking frigs, that is retarded.

>>51824417
In the remaster, capturing all those frigates is a really bad idea though. Because when you hyperspace in at the start of a mission, all your frigate and bigger ships occupy a spot in a long line stretching forever. If it's full of a bunch of frigates, your heavy cruisers (which are in random spots in the line) and such might end up off the map and will take too long to get to the actual fight and you'll lose.

>>51824586
Yet another fucking bug they ADDED into the game. I still dont get how you fuck that up.

>>51824241
And never forget, if you didn't have enough sal'vettes, they'd disable the enemy ship and send it spinning out of control

They did fix quite a bit with a huge patch about a year or so ago that fixed how weapons worked and ship formations among the larger issues, but there are still other issues still sitting there.
Like research ships. They do fuckall.

>>51824661
>Fuel in fighters.
I will never fucking forgive them for this.

>>51824675
Do you mean having fuel originally, or that HW2 removed it?

>>51824675
Meh, it never really bothered me, though it made the Kadeshi refueling ships completely pointless to steal. I remember using them as refueling waypoints for long fighter runs when I didn't have any carriers available.

>>51824705
Removing it. Made fighter combat HUGELY more strategic. Honestly I did like how HW2 had you build squadrons of fighters as opposed to one fighter at a time. That was a change i kinda wished they had applied backwards to the HW1 factions, and i wish they would have given the HW2 ships fuel.
Also no playable Turanic or Kadeshi factions. Fucking BOO! BOOOOOOO I SAY!

>>51824724
>though it made the Kadeshi refueling ships completely pointless to steal

I havent played the Kadesh levels in the remaster, but if they removed fuel for ALL ships, then Kadesh Swarmers just lost their only weakness, and now have a support ship that has no use or meaning for them.

>>51824757
Balance. Fighters were more useful in HW1, because you built one at a time, and they were more survivable because they had a limited time-over-target. HW2 fighters are useless by comparison, but still necessary because of HW's rock-paper-scissors balancing

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>>51824788
>HW's rock-paper-scissors balancing

HW2's rps balancing

>tfw playing Kushan vs Hiigaran in remastered multiplayer

>>51824141
Can you post them?

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>>51825106
Sure. These are still rough, but the folks int he BFG threads were kind enough to provide pointers.

The Taiidan are mostly done, as are the Somtaaw, but this is just the Taiidan.

>>51824788
It's been a while since I played the remaster, but I believe that while Kadeshi fighters no longer have fuel limits the AI still behaves as if they do, causing them to swarm you over for a few seconds and then retreat to dock with the fuel pods for absolutely no reason before round 2.

>>51826887
I think it's mostly in the interest of fairness. Swarmers can rip apart your fighter squadrons easy, and start making mincemeat of your bigger ships over time. Incentivized sending your capital ships over to hit the refueling pods.

This coming from a guy who didn't know you should still everything not bolted down and went into the Garden with a tiny fleet, then decided to pump out destroyers on the spot.

>>51826976

Actually, the easiest way to beat the swarmers is to have a few repair frigates. They usually can't kill whatever it is they're aiming at as fast as your support frigates can heal it back up, which gives you ample time to steal all the fuel pods.

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>>51825507
Based anon, might do some experimenting for the Kushan side of things.

Here's an atmospheric background for your trouble.

>>51827027
People love to go on about the Salvage Corvettes, but Support Frigates might be my MVP. Stick a few of them behind a wall of anything, and it basically becomes invincible.

>>51827076

Why not both? Especially since you can fill up on your frigate limit with the support frigates, and then use the salvettes to steal you a bunch of ion frigates to strike with.

OK I'm getting very mixed messages about whether or not I should play the remaster or not. Bear in mind I haven't played the original.

>>51827256
Copy of the remaster I got came with both Remastered and Classic. So why not both?

>>51827256

Don't bother. Play the original. Steal every single capital ship.

>>51827313
>>51827310
I dunno, this thread is doing a pretty good job of making both seem like unbalanced messes.

>>51809891
Blood Ravens in space.

>>51815483

Damn straight.

"The war is over when I SAY its over!"

>>51827466
The campaign is certainly full of iffy gameplay balance choices, but it makes up for it with worldbuilding and the sheer satisfaction of going into a mission with over 100 enemy capital ships and leaving it with each and every one of them under your control.

Multiplayer is actually quite balanced, if you can find someone to play with you.

>>51828214
I think it's useful to remember that Homeworld started development before Starcraft came out and clarified a lot of RTS design. I'm still not sure what they were going for with the Light/Heavy/Multi-gun trifecta, for instance, since Heavy Corvette uber alles, Maybe that works better in multiplayer with teching and not constantly banging into the unit cap.

>>51824788
I've played the remaster and the Kadeshi swarmers do still have a fuel limit and will go dead and start drifting if they run out.

>>51828214
But I only want to play single player

>>51829140
Then just don't obsessively abuse Salvage Corvettes to capture every single enemy you come across.

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>>51824078
There's nothing left for us here, let's go.

>>51808632
how is this /tg/?

If you had included "what system could I run Homeworld with?" you might have got away with it

Its Traveller, by the way. You can get ships built for you in-game and it handles massive space combats

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>>51828569
>the Light/Heavy/Multi-gun trifecta, for instance, since Heavy Corvette uber alles

There actually is a difference. Heavy Vette's are better all 'rounders, and you can use them to tank fighters, eat bombers, eat other vettes, and take on Frigates.

Multigun Vette's are pure fighter killers, and they really shine during the Kadesh missions, as a 6 to 12 squadron of MGV's can handle Swarmer swarms all by themselves. Against Interceptors and Bombers, they excel.

I used to put together wolfpack flotillas consisting of a dozen Interceptors, six Heavy Vette's, and a single Assault Frigate. Whenever a Scout element found something juicy (like a resourcing operation), I'd send in a mixed unit of Interceptors, and when it drew bait, I'd vector in a wolfpack.

Light Corvettes are garbage and you should never ever use them

>>51829204

But that would be playing the game wrong.

And seriously, you'll have a hell of a time doing some of the later levels (especially the headshot asteroid one) without going well over the unit cap, which is tiny.

>>51829729

Not him, but I found that heavy corvettes in a wall could deal with lighter things quite well too, that was the mainstay that I used against the kadeshi.

>>51830004
You can still capture things, just not obsessively. Take opportunities, rather than forcing the situation.

>>51830004
>>51830041

Theres only a few things you SHOULD capture, but there is nothing you absolutely need.
>head start on Assault Frigates from Mission 2
>head start on Ion Cannon Frigates from Mission 3(?)
>Multibeam frigates from Kadesh Missions
>Missile Destroyer from alien derelict mission

Thats basically it

Cataclysm may be my favorite game from that era of late 90s, early 2000s. The feeling of the unknown, being an underdog, and being in over your head was wonderful. Add on a colorful environment and good VA for something deliberately cold and distant, and it was--- wonderful.

>>51830555
If you don't leave Bridge of Sighs with at least 100 ion cannon frigates you are objectively playing the game wrong.

>>51830735
When I tried to steal the ion frigates, I wound up in a Benny Hill chase across the map with every single ion frigate after my salvage corvettes.

wow all this HW2 hate is surprising.
am i the only one who loved HW2 as much as HW1?

So is Kushan the name of the species? I never really understood that.

>>51830942
I didn't really hate it, but didn't love it either. Mostly because art style didn't feel as good as in HW1, and that fucking balance thing where computer always has full counter to your fleet.

>>51830942
I loved HW, played the fuck out of it.
When Cataclysm came out, it was amazing, it felt better, the story was amazing, the game was just as atmospheric.
When 2 came out, i bought it ASAP, but it just felt... flat. I tried campaign, multiplayer, vs AI, and none of it drew me in as much. Didn't even finish the campaign at the time, stopped at, iirc, the ship graveyard or soon after.

He Whose Hand Shapes What Is is an asshole.

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>Look up Homeword fanart

>Hilgaarans/Kushan always depicted as being white

Never got that, I always pictured them as looking middle eastern/Egyptian

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>>51831423
Dunno, Karan S'jet looks pretty pale

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>>51831423
DoK shows them as being pretty white. Hell, I think one of the Gaalsien was actually blonde.

>>51831423
Remember, they aren't native to Kharak. A few thousand years ain't shit for environmental adaptation.

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One of the best games of all time also produced one of my favorite single page comics of all time.

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>>51831460

Lighting m8

>>51831486

True, but the whole universe feels a lot like ancient Babylon and Mesopotamia (Hell the Hilgaarans getting destroyed then coming back centuries later is what happened to the Akkadians). That's why I always pictured them middle eastern/olive skined

>>51830942
HW2 just felt like more of the same, which meant people were much quicker to notice the flaws.

HW1 was something new, something amazing. I don't know if I game had ever used music so well, or told such an epic story so personally. It's still amazing to go back and listen to the voice acting in HW1, how they conveyed so much through characters speaking in flat monotones 90% of the time.

It's this idea of a journey, so well told. And what's amazing, what's most amazing, is that even though it was the first of it's kind, it's age doesn't show. It's still one of the best space combat sims in the genre, and it's still is still incredible.

HW2, I think, it ultimately a good game, but it's not HW1, and some of it's changes were for the worse. I think, ultimately, it tells the exact same story, and everyone had already heard it the first time.

>>51821227
>Speaking of Galactica
You are now aware the the voice actor for the Bentusi showed up in BSG: Razor as the first (and only male) Hybrid, a cybernetic man wired into a Basestar as its control core. He offers Bentusi-esque cryptic warnings. It's pretty fantastic. Less than five minutes of screentime, but man the nostalgia was real.

>>51830995
Kushan = exiled Hiigarans. On Kharak, where they'd forgotten their origins, they identified themselves as Kushan. Upon reclaiming Hiigara, they resumed the original name of their species.

Once upon a time, the Hiigarans had a pretty neat space empire. They stumbled across a Progenitor hyperspace core that let them make longer and more precise jumps than pretty much all of their neighbours. They got uppity, kicked the Taiidan's teeth in and were generally pricks to everybody. The Bentusi decided to step in and tell them to chill out. The Hiigarans opened fire on the Bentusi, thinking they were the biggest and baddest kids on the block. The Bentusi promptly disabused them of that notion.
Violently.
The Bentusi levelled the whole Hiigaran fleet. The Hiigaran mothership crashed into Hiigara's moon, where the core was salvaged and hidden away on an escape transport. The Taiidan took advantage of the situation and captured Hiigara, then exiled the Hiigarans. They pointed them off towards the outer reaches of the galaxy, and said "If we ever hear of you fuckers using Hyperspace again, you're dead".
The exiles wind up on Kharak (well, most of them), they lose their technology, time passes, they work themselves back up to the space age, and a satellite finds the crashed ship containing the core.

>>51824078
TOO SOON

>>51808632
God I wish the remaster was still alive for the god tier mods.

I loved watching all the OP ships everyone put in the game.

>>51808773
>>51808918
I read the shit out of these as a kid and I legit got tingles in my head from reading these again with that turanic raiders soundtrack.

Jesus man its been so long.

>>51831471
Yeah Khagan was a blonde, blue-eyed Nazi looking person.

>>51824788
Look i know that HW2 fighters were less good overall but it just makes sense in an autistic kinda way that your fighters would be grouped into squadrons automatically.

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>>51830735
>kushan here and we all laughing

>>51831622
>True, but the whole universe feels a lot like ancient Babylon and Mesopotamia (Hell the Hilgaarans getting destroyed then coming back centuries later is what happened to the Akkadians). That's why I always pictured them middle eastern/olive skined

Well, the game is based on middle Asial Persia, Iraq, Iran,... those sort of places.
It's where the names are from, Kushan were an actual empire in human history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

But really, Middle Easters are generally white.
If you consider most people you see live in space under artificial light, light skin is really not all that weird to them.

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>>51832631

I vastly preferred being able to set the number of fighters I wanted. Not every situation calls for 4, or 6, or 12 Interceptors.

2 Scouts makes an effective recon probe. 6 Interceptors makes an adequate Resourcer escort. 8 Bombers makes an adequate bomber raid.

The big point is, is that whether its 4 scouts, or 6 interceptors, or 8 bombers, or a dozen corvettes, they all act as a SINGLE group of whatever number you have in a group - while in HW2, 4 squadrons of 5 Interceptors will always act like 4 squadrons of 5 Interceptors.

In an austic way, that bugged the hell out of me. Plus, groups of ten triggered me - its 12's or nothing.

>>51833048
Watching my fighters swarm over an enemy capital ship was one of the most mesmerizing parts of playing the original Homeworld. Especially with the music they played during combat. Turanic Raiders is one of my favorite piece of video game music ever.

https://youtu.be/dTKakINXjl8

>>51832915
Higaraans I think came from Hijrah in Arabic as filtered through Dune. It means "migration", specifically, the migration of Muhammad and his followers from Mecca to Madinah due to overwhelming persecution by Pagans. There, Muhammad regrouped and fought off the Pagans (see the movie The Message (1976) for kick ass battle scenes) and eventually recaptured Mecca. The Muslim calendar starts in the year of the Hijrah.

>>51833048
Eh each his own i guess. The squadrons thing was probably the only thing i actually liked about HW2 combat mechanics anyway.

I really just want more factions to play with. Would fucking kill to see Kadeshi vs Turanic vs the BEAST.

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>>51833087

>somtaaw siege cannon shots
>beast cruise missiles
>acolyte missile rush
>infection beam strike craft tpk's

FUN

Why didn't the remaster have the old credits theme? It was amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp8S4Nkzyns

>>51834206
They would have had to fork up cash for the rights to The Ladder by Yes.

>>51834341
Yeah that. This game, while appreciated for pulling the Homeworld franchise out of the depths of hell, was a cash grab by Gearbox.

>>51830735
I ended up salvaging almost everything in the remaster.
>tfw engage the headshot asteroid and its giant fleet with my own giant fleet of over 20 heavy cruisers and close to 300 frigates
The final mission i fought with closer to 14 heavy cruisers and a bit over 200 frigates and then captured every single heavy cruiser i could.

>>51830942
Its not that i HATE HW2 with a burning passion or anything, hell i even kinda liked some of the story they put into it, even if it was WAY too new age spiritualism for me and the ending was fucking stupid.

>Hurr Durr wake up God.
>"Sure mortal i shall fight for you, for no reason at fucking all."

Seriously, what happened with Sajuuk should have been way more amazing than what actually happened.

But what ultimately did HW2 in for me was that it felt like they didn't try very hard with the second game like they did with HW or Cata. Those were fucking amazing. HW2, while pretty gud, didn't really live up to that kind of amazing.

Homeworld is pretty great, but the extremely limited draw distance that makes you not even able to see most of your fleet in one screen at the beginning of a level makes my autism flare up. Did any of you guys find a way to change it?

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>>51825507
I remember you.
I Shas'O Wee'A Boo always liked your stuff as well as Vice admiral Drawfags drawings.

>>51814076
>e
>>51814085
>>51814093
>>51814111
>>51814118
>>51814141
>>51814152
Yknow when i saw this shit i went back and tried to find my collection of Norsehound's maps, because i remember having downloaded them. When i couldn't find them i decided to back to the Relicnews forum to reacquire them. I found that the forum shutdown a month ago. And I really dont know how to feel about that.

>>51808773
Dayum, this is rich. Realy rich.

>>51835350
Back when video gaming companies actually liked making games.

>>51834341
It was more likely the fault of Yes' label. The record industry is infamously tight-fisted.

>>51835343
The age of S'jet is over.

>>51835343
Pretty sure Norsehound put them on their DeviantArt account as well?

>>51835146

I wish this was still alive.

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>>51834478
>didn't try very hard with the second game like they did with HW or Cata

Having no lore books, and no unique music tracks, for example.

In HW1, everyone can instantly recall Adagio for Strings, and Yes - but is there any track in HW2 that resonates the same?

not that HW2 didn;t have great music, it just didn't seem the same

>>51838166
the only thing that sticks with me is the keeper destroyers and the theme
they are so fucking cool

>>51838166
But it did have a lore book i recall.
I think it fleshed out the stuff about pre-exile Hiigaran empire and the times prior to that.

>>51838166
>Having no lore books, and no unique music tracks, for example.

They did develop all sorts of interesting stuff, it simply went down the drain in favor of a "play it safe" sequel forced on them by Sierra.

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>>51838248
>>51838264


HW2 didn't have a manual. It had a warranty and liability booklet with 1 page.

There was some rough draft lore that was released in pdf form much later - detailing the dust wars, the betrayal of kiith soban, the rise of the religious zealots of the vaygr, etc

>>51838211
https://youtu.be/B3YmmPM5ohw

>>51838166
https://youtu.be/OcIoaHKjTZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JZhaNWA9s

Other than this one most of the HW2 music was kinda bland. However, these ARE incredibly good, IMHO of course.
Ultimately, it was not the lack of good tracks, the story writing (even though it did miss more than a few marks, also that Karan voice was atrocious), or even the atmosphere of HW2 that did it in. It was how they gutted the physics based game play for an RNGesus system that did HW2 no end of disservice and ill favors.

>>51838302
The ingame version of that track is far better m8.

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>>51837317
Actually went looking at that. I only found 2 more maps on there, and i distinctly remember there being more.

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>>51838556
And the other one. Take great care this one requires extra zoom to actually read due to how it is sized and the lettering is very, VERY small.

>>51834341
Forking out cash for licensed music, even old stuff, is something you have to set a surprisngly large amount of budget and lawyering for.

>>51818129
I mean, get on your hate boner all you want but the Expedition Guide isn't just text, you can take closer looks at models and there's quite a bit of voice acting.

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>>51838166
I really like the turanic raider theme from HW1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQq3dD7ZMb8
The introduction cutscene helped a lot.

>>51822415
moar

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>>51835146
>>51827069
Sorry bout the late reply, I posted the Taiidan rules at work, then went home to discover my power was out from the massive storms murdering shitty CA infrastructure, and the water from my river was 5ft from my door. Was an exciting, exhausting night.

Never did finalize the Somtaaw rules - I just couldn't figure out what to do with the Ramming Frigate. Sentinel Screens worked, the ships were tough but balanced, fun to play, but I just could NOT figure out some way to make the Ramming Frigate anything but a chore to play.

I want to keep it in there, but I dunno what to do, aside from making it a slightly more beefy Brute Ram ship, and that's no fun.

>>51840557
Personally prefer the Taiidan theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EYG7TBG1Ug
Its just so menacing and evil. Fits perfectly for a BBEG.

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Having the players be the captains of their own frigates, and then getting in huge slugfests would be neat.

>>51842009
Ah, the glory days of HW1 and Cataclysm where frigates weren't armoured with paper and could actually *have* slugfests.

>Frigate lost
>Frigate lost
>Frigate lost
>Frigate lost

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>Cause I'm just a teenage dirtbag baby

>>51842126
They wear gasmasks a lot in DOK, and I don't know if that's because kharak didn't have enough oxygen or if it was some kind of primitive stillsuit shit.

>>51842975
Most likely needed because of all the sand. Inhalation hazard based on how much sand there is and how hot it is.

>>51842126
>>51842975
>>51843019
Considering the planet has a neverending stream of ships crashing into it that is causing the main ecological problem of extra rapid desertification, it may be radiation related.

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>>51843461

>>51835447
>fault
It's no ones fault, and while I'm sure they would have gouged Gearbox, its a straight up budget issue more likely than not.

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>>51840595

Ramming frigates don't do that much damage. What they do is MOVE things. And in BFG, that could be very useful, if your moving something into asteroids, mines, or other ships (causing collisions).

I've only ever played Rogue Trader, but I'm at least passingly familiar with the rules for BFG, and moving shit seems like it would be viable to me
Actually, ramming in Rogue Trader is OP as fuck

>Realizing that the pirate Carrier would eventually overwhelm the Somtaaw Acolytes and Seekers, forcing a retreat from a highly valuable belt of radioactives, the Minions drove straight into battle and rammed the Chieftain broadside. After grappling on and giving maximum power to their fusion drives, the Minions were able to push the Pirate Carrier deep into a fast-moving pack of asteroids, where the larger ship was battered and finally destroyed by rock impacts.

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>>51842975
>>51843019
>>51843461

Kharak is described as a planet at the end of its stellar lifespan, as such its atmo is mostly gone, and one of the reasons its an arid desert with little life. It was never meant to be a great place for human habitation to begin with, but it was the best thing they could find.

I loved the descriptions of the ancient Kharaki using sailing vessels to travel over the fine sand and heavy wind

>>51808632

So, this thread got me to actually get Deserts of Kharak. It's nice enough, and it's cool to see a similar kind of military culture to what you see in Homeworld on the land, but a few things are bugging me a bit about the game.

Is it me, or is the game just easy? I've played the first 7 missions, and I haven't had any particular trouble with any of them. By HW1 and 2, I was usually sweating bullets by this point. Here, I've chewed up the Gaalsien forces bigger than my own, and I'm still at the support limit with a zillion resources to build spares if ever took losses, which doesn't happen much.

2. Air power is ridiculously strong/ the computer doesn't have nearly enough AA units.

3) Do you get more unit types later? You've got a few resourcing support units, but the main land game thrust seems to be just 3 units with a rock paper scissor arrangement.

>>51845178
Wait until you get the larger units, those mortar tanks were fucking amazing in the right configuration. The Kapisi itself was pretty beast too if you divert your points into guns.

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>>51845178
>Gaalsien forces

A big reason I can't get into DoK. Absolutely irritates me when established lore is completly ignored. By the time of the guide-stone discovery, the Gaalsien haven't existed for several hundred years, and tend to become boogeymen rumors like smoke to fire with religious extremism (which largely disappeared in modern Kharak society anyway).

Making the Gaalsien a large military threat is so monstrously unrealistic as to be comical. I don't think I would have minded if it was some rogue Kiith that, it turns out, had leadership tied to the ancient Gaalsien (gasp!), but you don't find this out until later.

>>51845422
Like the Khaaneph?

Really though, they picked the Gaalsien because they were right all along. Having them so advanced, which was literally the opposite of their beliefs, was gameplay over storytelling.

>>51844749
The problem I was running into wasn't how to initiate the ram and move, it was how far the rammed ship was pushed, and what happened after that.

Does it continue turn after turn? If so, is there a way to dislodge it via shooting? Does that in turn call for more complicated rules?

Or is it a one turn thing - then that begs the question of how far is it pushed? Does the size of the target ship actually matter in space? Should it? And in both cases, does the Ram Ship take damage from the ram?

My thought was to keep the rules simple but unique. The end product was a blurb of text half a page long, trying to cover every rule eventuality. I think for the moment I might just release the current iterations of everything else and leave it at that for now. Maybe some other folks would have better ideas.

I did playtest the Somtaaw, too. They're quite a bit of fun, but a bit strong, so they might need their values toned down a bit. Then again, they did wage a war against a ever-devouring entity by themselves, so I figured they'd be veterans at the very least.

>>51808632
DOK idea:
The players are running a deep space salvage ship that gets caught up in the fuckyou zone and warps into Kharak's atmosphere
>Ship manages to make a safe landing but is fucked
>Maybe can jurry rig an escape ship but need parts
>Can jurry rig a surface ship to get parts
>Run into random kiith
>Horrible realization of who these people are
>Expose yourselves and try to convince them not to leave or sneak around and try and fit in for parts to make your escape before these idiots get back into space and attract the attention of the Tiidani emperor
>Bonus option: steal one of the preserved ships that warped into rock and that the Gaalsian unearthed

>>51845532
>which was literally the opposite of their beliefs
Wasn't their only belief "never leave this planet"? And it was at least explained that they got their advanced tech by salvaging all the crashed starships.

>>51845604
Their belief was "We're all being punished, stop making nice things!" which included technology. not leaving the planet was just part of the whole punishment theme.

>>51845604

Not him, but no, they've got other stuff.

They're the religious hardliners of "We're here on Kharak because God punished us for something really bad we did", and they turned their backs on most science in general. They got the shit kicked out of them in the Heresy wars, some 200 years prior to DoK, and especially Kiith Naabal. They've been reduced to desert raiders, a few dervishes who don't cause much trouble.

At least for me though, I thought yeah, what's dumb is that they're posing a credible threat to the Coalition, besieging the capital because I guess we need some more drama.

I thought the game could work perfectly fine if you're something akin to one of those polar expeditions in real life turn of the 20th century. You're armed, but you're not armed for bear, and this isn't a military expedition, and you run into them because the wrecks are out in the desert and whatnot, and you have to fend them off with improvised stuff.

As it is, this "last hope of a desperate and losing war" is kind of ridiculous, salvaged metal and tech from the wrecks or not.

>>51826976

The fucking HW1 campaign design had some god-tier trolling.

>2 levels fighting the Kadeshi who can rip apart your fighters faster than you can even build them so you naturally shift to multi-gun corvettes/drone frigates once the research becomes available

>Next level is the Ghost Ship that makes everything but quick fighters useless

And
>Gives you ample opportunity to snag dozens of enemy ships over the course of several levels

>Throws you into an asteroid field that can one-shot all of them

And finally
>Takes away most of the 'hud' that you didn't realize you relied on in the last level until you realize that the motheship just got BTFO while you were microing your frigates.

>>51845789

>Not using a wall of heavy corvettes to deal with both the swarmers and the ghost ship.

>>51845588
keep it simple.
make it have to ram using the normal rules, give it a rule saying it takes no damge. If it connects it can push a ship up to say 10 cm, 5 if its a captial ship.
In its turn enemy ship can use the burn retros special order to disengage and axt as normal. If failed its stuck and will be pushed again in ramming figates turn.

Does anybody else really wish that the Khadeshi had teamed up with the Kushan instead of fighting them?

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>>51847688

That would of have been interesting. However, I doubt the Kadesh would have made much difference outside of the nebula. Their fleets are based around mugging you while you can't see for shit, using your panic as its advantage.

Wont work in a prolonged fleet action against battle hardened Taiidan units used to fighting by attrition.

>>51824141
I remember that. I was the guy proposing to make corvettes squadrons with a save.

>>51834478
>Seriously, what happened with Sajuuk should have been way more amazing than what actually happened.

God, no. That entire "epic fate of the universe" crap should have never been added in, just like the spirituality bullshit. Homeworld 1 and Cata were great because they were personal, now it's
>your homeworld gets captured again lol but youre also the chosen one
it's literally JRPG tier

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>>51848538

Hundred percent agreement. The whole idea of "hyperdrive cores" being some sort of mystical trinity was just...weird. Like, what? Hyperspace technology isn't THAT advanced. And then you have this hyperspace network that now the space messiah controls?

The mystical and biblical overtones should have always been themes, never realities.

>>51848596
So was there anything in HW2 worth saving? It can't have been all bad.

>>51848656
>So was there anything in HW2 worth saving?

Thats for each person to judge. I know I did have fun with it. I found the levels were fucking balls hard, it did not support playstyles from the first game, but it had awesome art direction and ship design. The game balance was wonky, but it had great music (maybe not as iconic as HW1 or Cata). Some of the levels were interesting, and it did introduce some new gameplay elements that were pretty cool (like module customizing).

Overall, I did have fun with the game, but its nowhere near as good as its predecessors

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>>51848656
Cool ships designs and fancy graphics, otherwise I'd agree with the other anons that HW1 was the better of the two (I haven't played Cataclysm so I won't judge) . HW1 had more character, where you were slowly learning about the universe and who your faction actually was as you progressed through the game, and that added onto the increasing challenge each progressive mission provided.

You didn't start off as the top dogs who knew everything, or the chosen ones to save your empire from certain destruction, or that the otherwise standard hyper-space drive you reverse engineered from ruins of the decades old wreck you find in the sand dunes being one of the trinity that would help awaken the God of your universe.
I mean that's not enough of a terrible retcon I don't know what is.

>>51845422
Look i know it deviates from the original manual and all but they DID need an enemy for the player to fight.And while making it religious Kiithid with ties to the Galssi, those would have probably resided in the North/South Polar regions and the whole point of a Homeworld game is keeping track of your fleet across the vast and trackless space as you travel. The Great Banded Desert was supposed to a replacement for space and the Gaalsi had been removed to there for generations.
I explain their numbers as disaffected religious Kiith removing themselves from the mainstream of Kharaki society during the Age of Reason and joining the Zealots out in the desert. Some of these disaffected had the knowledge to reverse engineer the wrecks across the Great Banded Desert.
Is this a perfect interpretation of the HW1 Manual? No of course fucking not. But to make a playable game out of the era, which after the mistakes of HW2 is probably going to be the ONLY thing they can still do with the franchise due to how over the top HW2 was to try and 1UP HW1, which is stupid as fuck but hey, it killed the franchise so whatever, this is what they came up with.
And honestly its not that much of a retcon. They faithfully kept the discovery of the Khar-Toba scene and gave it context as well. Its not near as bad as fucking with the Hyperspace cores and making them "MAGIC MCGUFFINS!!!!!!!11111111oneXD" or killing off the Bentusi or killing of any possible plot progression in the setting with the Eye of Deus Ex Machina.

>>51848596
Why are the hyperespace cores supposed to be so precious? We see people entering hyperespace without them all the time in the games.

>>51849269
The explanation is that the Three are from the times of the Progentiors are are basically SUPERAWSUMEOP!!!!!!!! They can jump a fleet 100 times the distance that any current Hyperdrive can manage. They can also power ridiculous amounts of shit and pull ship out of hyperspace if DoK is to be believed.

>>51849303
This of course, explains why the Taiidani and Bentusi and whomever else let the defeated Hiigarans keep one after they attempted to take over the galaxy and failed [/sarcasm]

>>51849321
No shit. HW2 was fucking stupid.

>>51849321
IIRC the Hiigaran's crashed their flagship in the Angel Moon to deny it and the core to the Taiidani and then smuggled the core out of the wreck aboard the Khar-Toba.

Somehow.

>>51849321
The Taiidan didn't know, and the Bentusi were feeling guilty as fuck for their role in almost exterminating the Hiigarans.

>>51849303
So why couldn't the mothership distance the Taiidani and go directly to Hiigara in HW1?

>>51849371
>Somehow.
>Managing to fool the fucking Bentusi.
>Who are INTIMATELY antiquated with the Three Cores by now.

>>51849378
>Guilt.
>Allowing a group of people that had tried to seize the ENTIRE Galaxy to keep the thing that let them attempt to seize control of the entire fucking Galaxy.
The ONLY even remotely logical explanation for that course of action was that the Bentusi did NOT want the Taidanii to get their hands on the Core, did not want to piss others off by having two of the fucking things and could not figure out how to destroy it. Even then it is still really stupid.

>>51849433
Because HW1 the Hyperdrive was NOT this bullshit OP core that could fuck everything over forever. HW2 retconned them into being bullshit OP.

>>51809563
>Cataclysm
I will never stop being salty over Gearbox not doing a HD remake of it.

>Lose source code
>Implying they don't have it and wait until there is a good moment for it to get released
>Implying they didn't do it in the first place because there was a shitload of new skins

>>51849321

This.
>>51849371
They smuggled it aboard one of the transport ships somehow was the explanation given. Fooled the Taiidan. Bentusi probably saw right through it.

>>51849334
>HW2 was fucking stupid.
Gotta agree with this anon.

>>51849456
Yeah, my question was to know how they explained the change.

>>51849614
They didn't. AT ALL. It just works that way now, cuz reasons. HW2 was fucking stupid.

>>51823824
The story in Cataclysm was some Resident Evil-tier of scary. Especially that nobody knew what was going on inside of a ship that was being assimilated by Beast nanites.

>>51849650
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM8OyBBoUhg

>>51849764
This. Will never be NOT SCARY. It's all like The Thing, but even more eldritch and capable of hijacking ships.

>>51849813
Yeah, The Beast is fucking terrifying. "Curing" the infection from a ship basically involves killing anyone or anything that was on board when the infection started.

>>51850001
>Get hit by infection beam
>Route plasma from engines into the affected deck
>Absolutely everything organic gets evaporated
>Ship still secure, although with less crew and cleaner corridors

>>51850022
Somtaaw cleaning services.
When you want your corridors to have that healthy glow.

>>51849813
>CUT US LOOSE

To this day I admire this sort of self-sacrifice for the rest of the ship.

>>51850001
>>51850022
>>51850081
Hardcore, yet necessary. Seriously they should thank the Taiidan for this.

>>51850087
Those guys were bros here. And then you mercykill them when they go Beast Mothership.

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>>51808773
>>51808632
All of the Races in Homeworld and Homeword 2, (excluding The Beast and the Creators of the Naggarok from the apocryphal Homeworld Cataclysm), are a different variation of human

The Progenitors of all the races in Homeworld Lore are said to have come from a different Galaxy, so it's easily possible that Homeworld is based in the far far future, where Terran Humans have already travelled to distant galaxies, the conflicts that take place in the Whirlpool Galaxy of Homeworld may just be one of many outcomes for the human race

If I were to write a fanfic about a Kushan ship accidentally splitting off the main force in HW1 and being stranded on a planet, which ship should it be? I want something smaller than city sized, something like the Normandy or slightly bigger.

>>51851189
A Frigate?

>>51851189
>Writing HW fan fiction.
>In an age after they utterly fucked the franchise to death and are now feasting upon the corpse.

Don't do this to your man. It is no longer worth it. Fuck I'm still hoping beyond hope that Norsehound finishes the Taidanii Civil War.

I've still got the original Homeworld on disk somewhere and I don't really want to buy the Remastered edition. Is the original Homeworld compatible with Windows 10? Or, if it's not, is there a compatibility patch somewhere?

Is it still possible to obtain Cataclysm from somewhere?

>>51851354
IIRC The remastered also has the original games in it, unmodified?

>>51851385
Yep.

>>51851385
Yeah but I don't really wanna spend 30 of the queen's pounds on two games that I already have, plus the remastered versions which are apparently inferior.

>>51842126
HBO's Generation Kharak

>>51851219
Yeah but which one.

>>51851288
It'll be a shitty crossover about first contact with Earth Bet. Sometime after the fall of Kharak, the Kushan force becomes big enough for an unforeseen bug in the hyperdrive core's housing causes a few frigates to be lost in jump. This one ends up in the literal next galaxy over and a few universes to the left, appearing inside a cliff, fjord or mountain like some of the intact ships in DoK, but not trapped.

Who knows if it'll ever progress further than an 5 sentence idea in my fiction.txt

>>51851189
>>51852935
Assault Frigate for sure.

>>51852969
>>51852935
>>51851219
>>51851189


Don't most HW1 era frigates have a crew of like 2 dozen? If you want a "smaller than city sized" you're probably going to need something considerably bigger.

>>51853020
I want something big enough to have a small medbay and a small armory for repelling boarding parties. Something the size of a mall or city block.

>>51853070
HW ships are not that big broski.

>>51853098
How big are they, then? The mothership can house approx. a million, if they're frozen and packed like sardines, and still has space for the fukhueg hyperspace core, manufacturing facilities, and sublight engines.

>>51853098

They're big enough to be city block sized.

>>51853168

The Mothership is about 7 km long, although the Kushan one at least is very long and thin. If you're going by about 100,000 square feet to a city block, then the cross section of a destroyer should be big enough to fit the bill.

>>51853168
According to the wiki they're actually quite small. So small I'm having trouble believing some of these numbers.
I thought for sure assault frigates were longer than 100 meters.

>>51853235
>7 km long
That's if you measure by game size, which doesn't make any real sense. The only true measurement is that the Scaffold is 35.6 km tall, and we can measure the Mothership against that, putting at at over 41 km tall.

>>51853235
>They're big enough to be city block sized.
Qwaar-Jet is 430 meters long, while interceptors are about 17 meters

>>51853272

As opposed to the manual or wiki specifications, which also don't make sense?

>>51853297
I meant that the in-game models are scaled up so that you can actually see the units. None of the models are actually accurately scaled against each other.

>>51853291

They're bigger than that, if you measure their lengths by the speed given in game for strike craft and how long it takes them to go from one end of a ship to the other.

>>51853317

>I meant that the in-game models are scaled up so that you can actually see the units.

Says who? What are you basing the thing about none of the game models being accurately scaled coming from?

>>51853317
>>51853329
Ships in game are not to-scale.

>>51853236
>>51853272
>>51853297
I'm looking at the old manual and, with my copy at least, it doesn't list the size of any of the vehicles. What it does give is the ship mass but not what the unit of measure is.
I can't load up the game right now but if someone could take a few screen shots the original did have some stats listed in the build screen.

>>51811239
I remember reading through the wiki, the bentusi are part of their ship. Bit like how Karen S'Jet becomes the mothership

>>51813873
They've met it before. They can travel to different galaxies.

>>51814615
Idk I found the controls so fucking easy. Like I thought the controls were perfect the first time I used them.

>>51851131

Even the Bentusi ? They always seemed like the only "true" aliens in a non-human sense to me.

>>51816490
What did you base it off? I would really love to give it a shot and I think for a sci-fi setting I would actually do alright at GM'ing. Any sources would be great. I want it to be fairly open. My initial idea is that the players are all part of the crew on a Somataaw out to salvage

>>51853356
>>51853329
>>51853362
>>51853291
>>51853272
>>51853236
>>51853235
>>51853168

Here you go, this gives a pretty definite impression of the different sizes.

>>51853900

Shit, forgot the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG3stLXpZ2w

>>51853900
Uh, buddy...

>>51853917
Thanks, that's excellent. Seems like some kind of frigate is what I'd want after all.

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>>51853840
>What did you base it off?

Premise story was this: Characters we're sleepers, who through scientific or political or lottery, won colonization spots on the Mothership. They get awoken right after the Kharak burning, and pressed into military service. Specifically fighter pilots, although I had detailed a whole first session of "getting to know you" between 20 odd detailed NPC's, of which some went into other fields.

Players immediately chose this as an opportunity to be combative with recruiters and trainers at every opportunity. One character was a geologist and made it a point of being smartmouth with everyone military in rank above him, because he didn't get an immediate science posting - facilitating a harsher then average response from trainers who were trying to encourage the guy based on his flight experience (which he had from his civilian amateur pilots license).

Now, to clarify, I didn't treat this as the american marine corps, with a bunch of drill sergeants yelling and berating people. The attitude was very much "awful people killed our people, so lets band together, work together, and fight them, to survive" there was a lot of help, cooperation, and comradery. Players and their characters wanted to have nothing to do with it, and if they weren't outright insolent to the military, they were insubordinate or uncooperative - usually citing either a complete uninterest to fight (from a laundry list of reasons, from either fear or pacifism), or rallying behind PC's who they feel were getting a raw deal from recruiters who were being forced to punish insolent trainees.

No one seemed to care that "our world just got genocided - lets get made at the bad guys"

I ran the game for two sessions before giving up. No one seemed at all broken up about the game ending. No words were said. We moved on to the next game.

Wait what, a heavy cruiser has just 150 crew?

>>51854310
Well that's an interesting story, I actually wanted to know how you played ttrpg. Pen and paper? Or did you have a board and more fun stuff?

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>>51854677
>Pen and paper?

The system was a modified d20 using elements of Spycraft. I wrote up 6 custom classes, and simplified some of the combat mechanics. I also wrote up a predator\prey dogfighting mechanic that was basically a best of 3 rolls, which would end in either a shooting attempt (if you were the predator), or a chance to evade\escape or turn around and fire at increased penalty or risk.

None of those rules ever saw play, because the game ended too quick. I later cannibalized it all, made some changes, and used it in a Battlestar RPG I ran for a different group in a different city. It worked relatively well, but that group wanted much more detail and player aegis choices with the rules, and that ruleset was written for people who preferred little to no rules, or at least rules that didn't penalize them for knowing nothing about dogfighting. So it wasn't a fit either way

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>>51854735
>Battlestar RPG
Goddamn anon you sound like somebody I want as my GM

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>>51854762

It was during the height of the show run, so everyone wanted to do one - including me.

Story premise was this - while the Galactica and whatever it scavenged headed off for Earth, you still had adrift military and civilian elements in the 12 colonies. The game took place on a fleet carrier escort that had been running a shakedown cruise. Over the course of the game, the main goal became rescue and recovery of any and all survivors and then making a break for Kobol itself. The main antagonists were elements of the civil defense force from Ithaca which was a moon that had declared independence from the 12 colonies some years ago, fought a war, lost it, and were now in the process of acclimatizing - this opportunity gave some of them a shot at a new war for independence, and considering the captain of the fleet escort was too green to inspire much loyalty from older ship captains, it turned into a lot of infighting.

That game lasted for several months before I cliffhangered it, and we moved on to other things - with the intention of going back to it. However, relations broke down with certain people in that city, and I moved away before the game ever finished.

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>>51849443
The Hiigaran's didn't try to seize the while galaxy. The Hiigaran's and the Taiidani where the biggest super powers in the galaxy and they where both on the Galactic council that was governed by the bentusi.

It was agreed by everyone on the council that hyperspace cores would not be used for wars as they could lead to mass destruction of planets and life. ( The bentusi basically told them to sit the fuck down, don't use hyper space cores for war only for trade)

Hiigaran's and Taiidani where having a war yada yada Hiigaran's used a core to warp a ship past all Taiidani defenses and glassed their home planet murdering millions. The bentusi jumped in before the Taiidan did the exact same thing to Hiigara lol.

Taiidan demanded Hiigara be destroyed since their home planet was basically glass. Bentusi couldn't bring themselves to do that so instead they exiled them and gave Hiigara to the Taiidan empire.

The Hiigaran's had to sign a treaty saying they would never develop any hyper space technology.

They got shipped off and escorted to the shit hole of the galaxy with millions dying along the way.

That's most of what I can remember from the wiki

>>51854735
I was thinking of smashing some RPG with combat based on full thrust. I would probably need to simplify and actually balance it for my purposes though.

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>>51854950

Rogue Trader has pretty good ship combat rules, but its best for Frigates on up.

>>51854909
Wasn't it that actually the Hiigarans glassed not only the Taiidani homeworld, but also a couple of other planets? And then the Taiidani went and glassed nearly all the Hiigaran planets?

Both were big assholes, but the Taiidans were also massive psychos to boot.

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>>51851189
I had an idea years and years ago to write a story about a carrier that's separated from the fleet during a climactic battle, and after realising the Mothership had survived they set out to follow the trail.
They'd make contact with other space fairing races and planets, learn of their past history from old legends and generally bond together as they face great hardship through their travels to reunite with the Mothership. Maybe they'd get shot up defending some other nomad clans from raiders, maybe they'd finally arrive home long after the end of the game and are welcomed home by the Mothership, couldn't decide if I wanted a happy ending or not. But I did like the idea of some risky space adventures and a chance to explore the setting, maybe I'll get around to it one day.

>>51854600

The ships in homeworld are generally highly automatized and don't require a large crew complement. Makes sense since the Kushan never could've retaken Hiigara before they got crippled due to personnel losses if crew sizes were larger.

>>51856003

Also why the ships can fight with any degree of skill at all since they've never been to space, let alone fight a space war, before the game itself actually starts.

>>51855848
They'd have no way to resplenish their loses via cryotubes, wich might be a problem when your main weapon are fighter craft.

>>51855848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_4I5vzF0Jw

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>>51856162
Yeah I was thinking there'd be a lot less combat since any losses would cripple the small fleet pretty quickly. It'd be more about exploration and interaction with less hostile factions in the galaxy. Hell they might even group up with some Taidan rebels who act as their "shield" when the big battles start.

>>51856779
Bad end. :(

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So is there any information about the other powers on the Galactic Council? Name, species, beliefs?

>>51859771
No and you are using a fan-made map of a time that will probably never come to be. None of those factions exist outside of MAYBE the Frerrn Aggregate. The rest are just stuff Norsehound wrote into the setting 10 years ago to justify his Fan-fics. Of course the fact that he was the only one that did so, and did a pretty good job mean that many accept that map, and his works, finished or not, as cannon.

>>51860603
Would have been cool to get one showing the original borders before the Kushan returned to Hiigara. Always wanted to know just how big the Taiidan empire was before it collapsed with the death of the emperor.

>>51860864
The Galactic Council could have taken on the Empire before it collapsed. So either the Empire was as big as all their territories combined, or were of equal size.

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>>51853831
Yeah, the Bentusi have a very large amount of cybernetics that makes them almost one with their ships, (Similarly, but moreso than Karan S'Jet), but they are still human at their core

Pic related: Bentusi being devoured by The Beast in Homeworld Cataclysm Cutscene

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>>51861158
>WE WILL NOT BE BOUND

Cata voice acting 10/10

>>51861688

>Implying that's as good as the part where the Somtaaw guilt the Bentusi into helping against the Beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcN-2l0ON9M

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>>51818474
you are a hero

>>51861709
The whole game was chock full of greatness, anon. I still get chills listening to it.

>>51856779
>the taiidan theme song
fuckin amazing

>>51861879
>No one's left
>Everything's gone
>Kharak is burning
>*adagio_for_strings_choral.aifr*

Totally wanted to cry tonight.

>>51856779
>It's a modern Tiidani carrier
So how long has that thing been there?
>The tiidan knew the Khushan were up to something and sent out a carrier to drop orbital weapons and blow them back into the stoneage again
>lol hyperspace shenanigans

>>51848958
>that the otherwise standard hyper-space drive you reverse engineered from ruins of the decades old wreck you find in the sand dunes being one of the trinity that would help awaken the God of your universe.
i always figured that Sajuuk was just a legend that myth and time turned into a figurative god. not an actual literal god.
I also always got the impression their hyperdeive was the salvaged and repaired original that the hiigarans had not a reverse engineered copy.

>>51862044
>>51848958
>that the otherwise standard hyper-space drive you reverse engineered from ruins of the decades old wreck you find in the sand dunes being one of the trinity that would help awaken the God of your universe.

"Toward the lower after portion of the ship lies the large shielded area containing the Hyperdrive Module. This is a direct copy of the one found under the sands of Khar-Toba but expanded twelve-fold to accommodate a vessel of the Mothership's mass." — Homeworld Historical and Technical Briefing
>direct copy
>expanded twelve-fold
This always stuck with me and didn't make any sense when I got to HW2 and they're talking about finding a great hyperspace core. I was like "WTF did the Kushan accidentally into building shit like they used to?"

This was quite a productive thread. Always nice to see this much love and discussion for Homeworld.

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>>51862363

Homeworld is one of the greatest games of yester-era. The best thing about the remaster was breathing interest back into the series.

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>>51862044
Yeah I can understand the change from super battleship to a "god" considering the power difference between the current tech level of the Homeworld universe. It still seems silly though.

>>51862180
Maybe that was the key after all, just use a standard hyper-drive core but make it 12 times bigger.

>>51862363
Yeah it's great to have a fairly tame and constructive conversation on 4chan for once.

>>51862408
Indeed, also the desserts of Kharak fits surprisingly well into it.
Hell, i can only imagine what it's like for someone who has never played a homeworld game in his life and then starts off with it and then moves to 1.

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>>51862786
Not to mention they vandalised the holy relic as well. Must have been awkward when they realised a hundred years later.

>>51862363
The trick is to have the thread here, but framing it in a /tg/ fashion, while NOT turning into a "stat me" or "Your mothership hyperspaces into the middle of star wars".

>>51863180
btw, wh would win, a Qwaar-Jet or a Imperial class star destroyer?

>>51863218
I wish we got a solid Star Wars mod for the remaster, would be fantastic.

How are marines equipped in HW? Exoarmors?

>>51863275
Apparently it's being worked on. The Star Trek mod, when it works, is absolutely gorgeous, too.

>>51863556
Dunno man, in HW1 boarding works like this
>Several tow ships connect with enemy ship
>Relentless electronics warfare begins to cut life support, weapons and lock up all corridors and cut the engines, navigation and coms
>Ship is towed inside the mothership where local marine teams flush out remaining enemies and ship is crewed by personnel from mother ship and possibly some captured enemy troops

In HW2
>Boarding pods (Vaygr)or beam of light (Space suits and cutting tools? Teleporters?)
>Marines storm the ship, take over vital areas and perform as a skeleton crew for the ship

>>51863747
feels like a they took a step backwards in hw2

also, while i like the idea of karan being the face of hiigaran in space, it feels like they forced s'jet as best on anything
it annoys me greatly