/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

And I fucked up and forgot to update the last thread link

>>51638921

Battleship tier list?

>>51790322
Diamond > *
But seriously, the Diamond has a huge lead, followed by the PHR BBs. I can't say a whole lot about UCM or Scourge, but my UCM buddy complains about the BB laser taking up too much of the profile value on a ship that wants to go Weapons Free.

>>51790322
I think no matter what, the Tokyo will be underrated.
It's not so much main-line combat unit, it's just a rock to park over a cluster so the enemy Can't Have It.
And it's p. fucking cheap too.

>>51790421
Scourge BBs feel like the weakest to me. The daemon is outclassed by the akuma purely because of stealth, and the dragon has the problem of relying on the underwhelming scourge torps to make up for the loss of guns. I run a dragon anyway, if only because the extra launch assets are nice, but it's arguably the least useful ship in my list.

I'd say
Diamond > PHR > Platinun/UCM > Scourge

>>51790322
>Bullshit Fuckery tier
Diamond

>Great tier
Heracles
Minos
Platinum

>Good Right tier
Tokyo

>Acceptable tier
Beijing
New York
Daemon

>Meh tier
Dragon

So, there was talk in the last thread of a "troop/drop capacity" in a similar vein to "launch capacity", with ever dropship, bulk lander, or gate a ship being capable of launching contributing to it.

Figures of either 8/10/12, or 8/12/16 for skirmish/clash/battle were proposed last thread.

What does the thread think?

Diamond is just too much. 20 points over say, a New York. Yet has a much more capable main and secondary weapon. Is more survivable thanks to either shields or sub-cruiser signature.

Worse CAW, but that hardly matters due to how amazing the particle weapon is.

Tokyo I'm warming up to as better than the Beijing, which is better than the New York. Alas, New-York chan is trash, while Beijing needs perfect positioning to kick ass.

Daemon's OK, outclassed by the BCs though. Perhaps it oughta get a partial cloak or Stealth or something. Dragon's dogshit.

Heracles is better than Minos, only because Minos's lack of speed causes it to suck on any mission with an approach where battleships may turn up on turn 3. Heracles is super solid though, and durable as hell.

>>51790537
Probably something more generous like 10/15/20 would be fine.

For PHR, having say, 2 Troopships and 3 Strike Carriers at 1250 isn't insane. It's still very solid. But less so than the crazy 'nothing but troopships' plans that give up very little for amazing flexibility.

Scourge and UCM benefits as the Strike Carriers are good, but the Troopships are not.

Shaltari are whatever. 5 Motherships are a lot anyway, but those damn voidgates got their much deserved nerf.

UCM newbieanon back again, having just won a bid for 4 PHR cruisers and 12 frigates. How shall I build them, barring the obvious 4-6 Medeas and almost certainly a Bellephoron?

>>51791261
There's not really much point to a limit nobody would reach anyway, anon.

whatever the skirmish and battle limits are, I'd say that clash needs to be 10-12, if only to prevent Shaltari players from taking 4 motherships and a battleship.

>10 limit
5 troop carriers
4 troop carriers, 2 strike carriers
3 troop carriers, 4 strike carriers
2 troop carriers, 6 strike carriers
1 troop carrier, 8 strike carriers
10 strike carriers

3 motherships, 1 battleship

>12 limit
6 troop carriers
5 troop carriers, 2 strike carriers
4 troop carriers, 4 strike carriers
3 troop carriers, 6 strike carriers
2 troop carriers, 8 strike carriers
1 troop carrier,10 strike carriers
12 strike carriers

3 motherships, 1 battleship
4 motherships

>>51791397

Two troopships.

>and hell maybe two Bellerophons

>>51791397
Bellerophon
Orpheus
2 Theseus

6 Medeas
2 Calypso
2 Europa
2 Pandora

>>51790445
The Tokyo feels like the first UCM battleship I'm going to build. Does a decent job lasering things as it flies at the cluster I washed my hands of at the start, blows the shit out of it when it arrives, and if it needs to go weapons free to use its side guns thats still decent shooting. That plus it being so cheap in comparison to its sisters really makes me want to run it.

>>51792870
This; it's perfect for sitting on critical locations, too.

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Bump

so with a new faction coming would you prefer them solidly evil like the scourge, dickish and probably evil but with room to maneuver like the Shaltari, right but fuckers like the PHR, or wrong but respectable for sticking to their guns like the UCM?

>>51797205
Another primitive race previously fucked over by the Scourge and Shaltari, looking to carve out their place in the universe and protect themselves forever against alien menace. Only problem is, the Scourge up and left before they could do their reconquest.

Basically non-human UCM, just to show that the Scourge have been around for a long, long time.

Also,
>right but fuckers like the PHR, or
>wrong but respectable for sticking to their guns like the UCM?
BALLSUCKERS FUCK OFF

>>51797205
I wouldn't be so sure about the PHR being right. Even if the sphere is trustworthy and isn't merely using humanity as a tool for its own secret agenda, its creators are definitely untrustworthy as fuck.

It seems likely that the new faction will probably come to kick the shit out of the UCM, in order to stop that momentum and keep Scourge and Resistance relevant. Something advanced with a totally alien mindset might work there.

>>51797473
That could work if the Scourge get reinforcements or something. At this point if another faction tries to join the jelly hunt they'd steamroll the Scourge immediately.

>>51797595
>That could work if the Scourge get reinforcements or something. At this point if another faction tries to join the jelly hunt they'd steamroll the Scourge immediately.
That depends; has it ever been said (in lore or from Dave's mouth) that the Scourge have only one "fleet", or are their multiple Scourge swarms harvesting the galaxy?

>>51797621
We don't know.

How's this looking, thread?

--------------------------------------
lolTokyoPerth - 1237pts
UCM - 3 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (220pts)
1 x Tokyo - 220pts - S
+ UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (196pts)
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR8 Line battlegroup (207pts)
1 x Berlin - 105pts - M
2 x Toulon - 70pts - L
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (239pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

>>51799328
Not sure why you've got a Jakarta with a lone Berlin. That seems odd. Maybe switch it to Sanfran or Tokyo. If you want to protect valuable snipers then Perth makes more sense.

>>51799542
It's to guard the Toulons, actually; frigates are especially vulnerable to bombers.

>>51799631
Toulons aren't worth protecting. They're especially vulnerable, but they're also bottom priority targets that will only be attacked by bombers if they have nothing more important to do.

>>51799841
My New Orleans will pretty much always be in atmos, same for my Santiagos.
Seattle has enough fighters to neuter the bomber wings of better factions.
Berlin, Sanfran, Perth, and Tokyo all have enough PD, along with fighter bonus, to deal with them.

Even still, the Jakarta can be within 12" of any ship in that group, it's more than possible for it to stray out to protect some other stuff, and it's in there for the sake of SR.

>>51799887
Fighters can only be used once per turn. If somebody combines close and long range bomber waves or has CA ships handy then they can be bypassed. There's also a good chance they'll just be overwhelmed by something mean like a Hydra or Bellepheron, and they'll get seriously fucked up if people combine waves from multiple carriers. Of course the Jakarta can also be overwhelmed by weight of fire, but it's still better to have it attached to ships that are likely to be targeted by things like CAW and bomber waves.

>>51800054
All true, but again, the flexibility of that 12" BG range is more than enough to move the Jakarta around. Even if I move it out of coherency, the group will still only be 9 SR and thus able to beat double cruiser groups.

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Rio or Berlin? Wyvern or two Strix? [Spoiler]Should the PHR sink into specialized cruisers like the Orion and Ajax when they have access to a lot of solid carriers and hybrid ships? [/spoiler]

>>51802006
>Rio or Berlin?
Very different ships. Better questions are Rio or Seattle (Seattle usually wins) and Berlin or New Cairo (harder choice, Berlin is tougher with guns and can be taken alone but NC is cheaper and faster)

>Wyvern or two Strix?
Either two Wyverns or two Strix, jelly CA cruisers work best in pairs.

>Should the PHR sink into specialized cruisers like the Orion and Ajax when they have access to a lot of solid carriers and hybrid ships?
Orion yes, it's a staple of broadside mouthfucking teams and is not really specialized since it kills all targets. Ajax maybe not, but only because Orpheus is fucking ludicrous for its price. If they make PHR super troopships more expensive or let Ajax split fire like in the fluff then it will be better.


Really though, I only compared them now but Orpheus is crazy compared to other faction troopships. For 20 extra points over the most easily comparable San Francisco it gets:
>+3 hull points
>+2 scan
>on approach, gun with 66% chance to add a spike and a decent chance to deal good damage
>when it gets stuck in there's a broadside that deals more than both San Francisco turrets combined against any target, and deals double that damage against frigates
>cruiser tier CAW that does more than double the damage of San Francisco frigate tier CAW
>laser, 2 broadsides plus CAW can be used in weapons free
>there are a couple of minor downsides, -1 thrust and cannot fire on targets that are in front arc but not narrow arc
Spamming 3-4 of them with some support seems to be an A+ strategy with no real downside, maybe mix it up and replace one or two with a Ganymede if you like. They are brutal frigate killers that do decently against cruisers and can mark targets for snipers, so why not take a bunch?

>>51802439
I just got my kickstarter shit last week, but the Orpheus did stick out to me as being very good. I hate the wide-chinned look and indended to take an Ajax to hunt for frigates, but it seems like the Orpheus can do that and drop bulk landers at the same time.

>>51790178
Local scene will be starting soon, as I finally got my rewards in the mail.

>>51802847
You need to make a troopship at some point, but it's not like having an Ajax around is going to fuck you over. It's a good ship.

>>51790421
>>51790471
>>51790501
I've yet to see the OPness of the Diamond.

I understand it, theoretically, but in every face off I've had with it my Heracles has blasted it to bits while the megadoomer particle cannon struggles to punch through the pair of Calypso trailing behind.

>>51803058
I personally think the Theseus does what it does way better.

I mean it's nice having a burnthrough, but the Theseus' ability to target four ships at once before PD makes it the premier frigate fucker.

>>51803143
The pair of calypso are the whole reason why you've been doing well against it. They'll effectively neuter the main gun, making the ship as a whole much less useful. Sadly my scourge don't really have any way of doing that outside of our battlecruisers; every other ship is basically just fodder for the particle triad. UCM are a bit better off with their limas to widen the engagement range for their own burnthroughs, but I generally can't get to grips with the damn thing without heavy casualties courtesy of my bloated sig.

>>51803143
Considering it can see my Daemon from over two feet away, it basically neuters it.

>>51803304
I guess you need to go full stealth, silent running for lyfe.

I wouldn't bring a Scourge battleship to a game where the enemy has a Diamond. More cloak cruisers or battlecruisers are probably more useful.

>>51804374
To be fair, I build all comers. And until battlecruisers come out, I don't have any, sadly.

Has anyone tried Frigate skew, and by frigate skew I mean taking a disproportionate number of your combat vessels as frigates rather than cruisers. Seems like it might give you an advantage against certain lists, like shatlari Diamond fuckery lists.

I've got an introductory DFC game set up tomorrow for someone new to wargaming, and the other party is interested in PHR. Does this look like a decent matchup, or should I make it smaller?
--------------------------------------
Scourge Icebreaker - 737pts
Scourge - 5 launch assets

SR10 Line battlegroup (245pts)
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M
1 x Hydra - 140pts - M

SR5 Line battlegroup (105pts)
1 x Wyvern - 105pts - M

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (193pts)
3 x Djinn - 129pts - L
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (194pts)
2 x Harpy - 84pts - L
1 x Ifrit - 110pts - M

--------------------------------------

PHR Icebreaker - 731pts
PHR - 2 launch assets

SR5 Line battlegroup (130pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M

SR5 Line battlegroup (115pts)
1 x Ikarus - 115pts - M

SR12 Pathfinder battlegroup (258pts)
2 x Europa - 80pts - L
2 x Theseus - 178pts - M

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (228pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
3 x Pandora - 150pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

I learned about Dropfleet Commander last night when a friend showed me the rulebook that he got with the kickstarter. I love everything about this game so far, but I know next to nothing about the factions or how they play other than it boils down to Space Assholes, Cyber-dicks, Brain Slugs, and Humanity Fuck Year.

Both fluff and general modus operandi are almost as important to me as aesthetic when it comes to whether or not I'll enjoy a tabletop army. So can I get a general breakdown on what each faction is about and their general fleet doctrines and tactics?

Also what is the prospect for future growth and expansions? Are there any plans for new factions, scenarios, ships, ship classes, game types, etc.?

Thanks in advance bros.

>>51805149
Scourge are fast glass cannons that usually go stealthy then jump out and do loads of damage at short range.

PHR have broadsides that need a bit of clever manoeuvring to get the most out of. Also very tough ships.

Shaltari try to keep their distance to take advantage of their long range and have a bunch of weird gimmicks.

UCM are the 'normal' faction, they are pretty tough with good weapons and versatile ships. Great bombardment too, and they get a special frigate that makes them better at marking targets than any other faction.

The game is going to be supported. An expansion is planned for the future and if DZC is anything to go by there will be new ships, new scenarios and maybe new rules like environmental stuff. iirc a new faction is planned to be released relatively soon as well. Only one new ship type is known for now, and that is the dreadnought.

>>51805755
>The game is going to be supported. An expansion is planned for the future and if DZC is anything to go by there will be new ships, new scenarios and maybe new rules like environmental stuff. iirc a new faction is planned to be released relatively soon as well. Only one new ship type is known for now, and that is the dreadnought.

This is really great to hear, I've been wanting a space-based table top to play for a while, and this game looks like it'll suit my fancy just fine.

Could you perhaps tell me more about the marking targets and stealth? How effective is long range combat vs. short range combat? Any serious drawbacks of preferring one to the other that aren't immediately obvious (like short range ships potentially getting blown to bits at range)?

>>51806249
the ranges in the game are dynamic, there arent exactly short vs long range ships in the traditional sense.

There are essentially 2 broad weapon ranges in the game, Normal, and Close Action. Normal has a variable range, Close Action is usually short.

Range is determined by taking your ships Scan and adding the targets Signature and adding them together. Scan is static for a given faction and ship, but Signature can vary depending on whether the ship has performed special actions.

Normal weapons use the sig + scan to determine range, Close action weapons only ever use your scan. You can however use the silent running special order to reduce your signature to 0 temporarily. The scourge have several ships which can make the best use of silent running as you are normally not allowed to fire, however ships with the stealth rule may fire.

Alot of the tactical depth comes from managing signature on your ships and your opponents via the use of special orders

Where can I actually buy this game? None of the stores I've looked at seem to have anything.

>>51807156
I liked the warstore.

>>51807156
>>51807256
Seconding Warstore, they've been pretty great all the times I've dealt with them.

Though I've also found that random stores post stock on eBay all the time with free shipping, which can end up cheaper than Warstore if you aren't ordering in bulk.

Gonna jump on in.
-2x PHR starters
-1 battleship.
- Rulebook

Do I need to buy anything else? Command cards come in the boxes? Gonna just make my own launch assets and tokens.

>>51808366
Command cards aren't out yet. You should be set otherwise.

Loyal comrades of the Sphere! I'm having issues dealing with Shaktari. My Big Belle and Orpheus can't crit because any hedgehog worth his spines just pops Opal'd shields, and his Aquamarines keep fucking with my Theseus squad. Any advice on how to damage Shaltari as glorious a e s t h e t i c master race?

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>>51805149
Basically, they work out like this.

>UCM
HUMANITY FUCK YEAH combined with a moderate touch of FUCKING XENOS, the UCM are FUCKING PISSED at everyone. They're pissed at the Scourge for killing or infesting 95% of their population, they're pissed at the PHR for being filthy fucking traitors and cowards, and they're made at the Shaltari for being mischievous little puppetmasters. Everyone is on their shit list, and they've been working on it for nearly two centuries. Pic related.

They're the jack of all trades fleet, but a bit better in a few areas.
They have the second best armor, right after the PHR.
They have the most efficient/specialized/prolific beams.
They have the outright best arcs and firepower distribution in the game, with their side arcs being nearly as powerful as their front, as compared to the Scourge and Shaltari.
They're launch assets are a bit meh, but their carriers are simple, tough combat vessels in addition to that.

>>51809095
>Scourge
ALIEN BODYSNATCHERS FROM SPACE that are not!Yeerks, they're the "galactic superpredator" that fly around the galaxy bullying up and coming sapients, stealing their men, women, other sexual morphisms, and children for use as hosts. They are ostensibly the bad guys of the setting, through both biology and their eager willingness to embrace their biology, and almost (but not quite) a hivemind. Their ships are controlled by a terrifying amalgamation of dozens upon dozens of hostless pure scourge into a slimy ball of gestalt space slug terror.

They're one of the fast fleets, the other being Shaltari.
They have the second worst armor, right after the Shaltari.
Their signature is actually bigger than most other factions, but only by +2" beyond frigate sized vessels.
Pretty much all of their weaponry has scald, which increases the armor value of a target if they're in scan range.
They have the best general CAW on their ships, as well as arguably the best specialist CAW (Shaltari with their CAW(beam) fuckery are contenders)
Almost all of their firepower is concentrated in the front arc, and have little presence in the sides.
A single one of their carriers puts out swarms of launch assets, but is not a combat vessel on its own.

>>51809106
>PHR
ANIME AS FUCK cyborgs that abandoned humanity before the Scourge invaded on the advice of an Alien AI (that looks like a white tennisball), the PHR returned right as the UCM prepared to go kick Scourge ass as posthumans and told them basically "This is fucking stupid, you'll get fucked". UCM tells them to fuck off, PHR shrugs their aesthetically perfect shoulders, and they go on to be not!Eldar along with the Shaltari to go fuck with everyone and absolutely anyone, including the Shaltari. We don't know the rest of their story, but they have lots of bodysuit clad women.

BROADSIDES
Have about 50-100% more firepower than any other fleet, but this is spread amongst their side arcs.
Clever target picking and maneuvering allows them to outdamage most stuff without needing to go double broadside.
Beams are equivalent to the UCM, but are less prolific.
The best bombers in the game, will utterly fuck shit up.
Slightly better scan than the UCM and Scourge.
Best armor, near universal 3+ save.
Also have a universal +1 hull on all their ships, except the battleship which has +4
Best troop carriers in the game, are pretty much fully combat capable cruisers with heavy cruiser tier hull stats.

>>51809150
>Shaltari
MANIPULATIVE LITTLE FUCKERS, the Shaltari are an ancient race of not!Eldar hedgehog greys that have mastered immortality, moving their minds into vatgrown clones upon nearing death. All of their shit is several millennia old, they're broken into several dozen different factions (some of which are building into two major coalitions), most have beef with humanity, some almost like us (or used to), and it's possible they're responsible for the Scourge in some way. Like the PHR, they fuck with everyone.

Fastest ships in the game, along with Scourge.
Best point defence in the game.
Worst armor, near universal 5+
Worst hull, universal -1 hull.
Tiniest signature, their battleships only have 4" sig while everything else has 3", their frigates have 2"
Best scan, universal 12" scan.
A huge chunk of their shit is in the front(narrow) arc, but they also have solid guns.
Shields give them 4++ armor, blocking critical hits as well, but removes their PD and gives them a HUGE signature.
Their troop deployment is BULLSHIT FUCKERY.

>>51809168
>>51809150
>>51809106
>>51809095
Thanks, Anon.

I think I'm gonna buy into Scourge. The fish ships are kinda cool looking to me, and I've always liked an up close and personal "fuck you" style of play. And I did always like playing the bad guys.

>>51808909

Ajax blow up a lot more usefully.

>>51809682
>Another Jellyhead joins the fight
Buddy you are going to have fun. Hope you enjoy having the most versatile frigates, the undeniably best battlecruisers and the coolest looking battleships.

>>51809682
>>51811235
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the Scourge battlecruisers are I N S A N E

>>51811376
[angry Lima noises]

>>51811714
>only a 50% chance to break it out of silent running
[smug scourge]

>>51812079
I forget, does the Lima still light up like a christmas tree if it fails? That feels rough if they do.

>>51813355
yes

you active ping you get a major spike, it doesnt matter what happens to the target

>>51813355
Yepl; Limas don't get any bonus to active scanning besides being able to do it whenever, regardless of other orders, as well as having no limit as to have many detector ships can do it per activation.

BTW UCM anons- a pair of Limas and a pair of Rios? Nasty module.

4200 turret (banks) are linked on all UCM ships, along with a slight, 1-2 point increase.
Yes or no?

>>51814004
I kind of wonder how viable combine arms BGs for the UCM are.

Example; Rio, Berlin, and 2x Toulons

>>51814004
A pair of Limas with anything that can dish out damage is nasty, that goes without saying. Limas+Rios, Limas+Perth, Limas+Berlins, Limas+Moscow, Limas+Beijing, they're all good.

>>51814179
I'd keep the laser snipers by themselves, they tend to stay further away from the action and prefer orders like course change rather than weapons free. Brawlers, bombers, carriers and troopships can mix with absolutely no problems though, I find it's pretty common. Seattles might go well with snipers too if you want them to do long range support rather than close range work.

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>page 8
>in only one and a half hours
>past midnight in the US
Holy fuck /tg/, slow down

>>51814095
They need it. Those shoulder guns are pretty unusable outside of opportunistic weapons free fire.

>>51814095
Sure, why not. They're auxiliary weapons and even linked would not be very good, but they are not meant to be. Some ships like Rio and Moscow would not benefit at all, but Sanfran and Madrid would be improved. Would this effect battleships as well? It would be very good for New York, right now it is worse than a Seattle at direct shooting without weapons free.

Am I alone in thinking that Osakas are pretty underrated?

>>51815456
It'd marginally effect the gunships, allowing them to target two ships on standard orders that don't warrant a full 6400 battery.
It'd make beamships far more versatile when out of position.
It'd certainly benefit support ships, further cementing the idea currently present in Seattle's of not having super specialized support ships.
It'd also effect battleships and the avalon/perth, I'd say, but 8 4+ shots is certainly something to be reckoned with.

>>51815491
I want to say they are, but at the same time the munchkin in me says that there's no reason to ever take them over Cairo cheese.

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>friend tells me Scourge are the stealth faction
>all scourge ships have larger signatures for their class than any other faction

>>51815505
Unless you're fighting Glasses or something the 6400 battery is pretty much always the better option. A single 4200 turret is complete dogshit and can't reliably kill anything. For battleships it is a bit better though, it really helps New York and Tokyo while being a legitimate option on Beijing.

>>51815491
They're pretty good. I think they tend to be ignored because they don't have a laser and aren't made for big brawls.

>>51815514
Different roles. Osakas flank and harass, while NCs kill priority targets until someone decides to fuck them up. I find that the lack of armour on Osakas bothers me a lot less, probably because they get shot a lot less.

>>51815924
They're the stealth faction because Scourge ships need to be stealthy and go in silent running, otherwise they get the shit kicked out of them.

The frigates, heavy cruisers and battlecruisers also have abilities that help with sneaking.

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>>51815924
Have you considered the careful balance between stealth and balls-out aggression?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJGtFv2Q5q0

Since I'll never be able to find an opponent where I'm at, what point range should I be theorycrafting my lists at?

>>51817283
>but for now I'm going to put these aside and start building the hundred condors

>>51815967
>Unless you're fighting Glasses or something the 6400 battery is pretty much always the better option. A single 4200 turret is complete dogshit and can't reliably kill anything. For battleships it is a bit better though, it really helps New York and Tokyo while being a legitimate option on Beijing.
True, combined fire the 6400s are always better than their 4200s, even the 3x 6400 on the Beijing vs its 4x 4200.
http://anydice.com/program/ac7c

The thing where this'd most come into play is giving their beam ships a semi reliable weapon when they get in close, making their support vessels into almost combat ships, and generally giving the UCM a way to deal with almost-dead-ship swarms.

>>51817473

999 and 1250.

Solitaire games are actually pretty good for honing your edge, particularly if you have a second faction.

>>51811376
>>51811235
>Scourge battlecruisers are amazeballs

New Jellyhead Anon here, I didn't know that the Scourge BCs were considered really good. What makes them so good?

>>51817473
>>51817734

Also, you make your own opponents. Get somebody interested. Spot them models.

>>51817742
It's a combination of good weapons, stealth, and full cloak. They're damn hard to spot, can fire a weapon system while on silent running, and are decently priced as well, points wise.

>>51817742
Honestly, I'd consider the Scourge BC's and their HC's to be the best in the game, for the simple reason of cloak and stealth. We'll start off with the heavy cruisers, simply because it'll put the battlecruisers in perspective.

>Shenlong
Three identical primary guns, capable of putting a max of six two damage 3+ attacks in the front and a max of two in the sides, twelve damage in total on weapons free with about eight of that hitting, four of that being crits. It puts out a huge amount of solid firepower, but that's not what makes it good, since the Amber does the exact same thing with longer range.
Partial Cloak allows for it to go weapons while only gaining up to a minor spike; with the Scourge having slightly bigger signatures, this is a godsend in allowing it to just let loose and outright delete shit every single turn.
Stealth allows for it to get it close, and with its arcs, can still put out a respectable amount of damage. Enough to blow away a full health frigate or heavily damage a larger vessel.

>Raiju
Not much to be said about the stats, it's an Ifrit with an extra occulus attack, but it synergizes perfectly with its specials.
Partial Cloak, funnily enough, will rarely come into play for the Raiju. It doesn't gain enough extra firepower for weapons free to be worth it, and partial cloak doesn't effect stuff that only gives minor spikes unless you're already at a minor spike.
Stealth
Unlike the Shenlong, a vast majority of the Raiju's firepower is concentrated in a single weapon, and can thus be fired while on silent running. It's a bit of a bitch to line up without being able to turn, but it can easily buy you another turn or two of reprisal free beams.

>>51818069
And now we get to the battlecruisers, where the cheese gets insane.

>Manticore/Banshee
Same crest weapon as the Shenlong and Raiju, along with CAW weaponry, as well as a torpedo. Forget the torpedo because it's shit.
Full Cloak; the ship will NEVER gain a spike until it's crippled, which means you're free to do as you will in regards to full thrust, course change, active scan, etc etc. It gives an immense amount of tactical flexibility to a CAW ship.
Stealth; technically speaking, the Manticore only has ONE primary weapon system, the rest is CAW, meaning that it can use the entirety of its firepower while on silent running.

>Basilisk/Akuma
The real OG of the lineup, the Basilisk is the Shenlong but turned up to 11. It's armed with the same gun profiles as the Daemon, meaning a possible 16 damage per turn spread across 8 attacks, and it has the usual battlecruiser fuckery.
Full Cloak; unlike the Manticore, this WILL be used for weapons free, without fail. A Basilisk in range to use all its toys can do so without worry, and can just chew through lines of ships.
Stealth; not quite as efficient as the Raiju and Manticore, nonetheless the Basilik can put out 6 damage over 3 attacks while on silent running, which is more than enough to heavily wound or cripple a cruiser, light or otherwise.

Basically, they have the firepower to really take advantage of how cloak and stealth works. The Basilisk itself is probably the outright best gunship in the game, if not the best lineship.

>Shaltari have the best battleships
>Scourge have the best battlecruisers
>either Scourge or PHR have the best heavy cruisers (on account of the bell)
>??? for cruisers
>UCM has the best light cruisers
>PHR or UCM have the best frigates
>PHR or Shaltari have the best corvettes

Who has the best cruisers?

>>51818082
>>51818069
That's really cool! I can't wait to start blowing my friends' shit into space dust.

>>51820886

The Amethyst is the real thing, anon. Taipei is on net a better example of its kind, but the Amethyst is right up there with it.

>>51820886
Best standard cruisers? Probably UCM. Only because it really feels that the heavy laser is way better than any other cruiser armament, and the UCM 8 Thrust, 10 HP, 3+ Armor is a solid profile.

Of course, this doesn't consider the stupidity of the Shaltari bombardment cruiser, that can roll heavy cruiser levels of CAW firepower very easily.

>>51820922
No problem anon, rememember, when in doubt, double Akuma.

>>51821076
As much of a sphere-licker as I am, I have to agree. UCM cruisers are the most dependable and accessible of the cruisers in the game - good fire arcs, reliable firepower, versatile, and good points cost.

>>51820886
UCM definitely for best cruisers.
I would contend that PHR aren't even close to matching UCM for best frigates, though. They have a dud or two, while every UCM frigate is a good frigate.

>>51822506
>They have a dud or two

Which ones? Basically all the PHR frigates are useful, some are indispensable. Their shared durability is also pretty amazing, as the firepower you'd generally use to kill them often JUST fails to cripple.

>>51822617
The guys who play PHR around here have had little luck with the burnthrough frigates. Not that they lack potential, but they just can't reliably live up to it. More to the point the launch asset frigate seems less than useful when you could instead get either more medeas, calypsos, or gun frigates. There's far better and more useful launch platforms in the PHR roster.

I'm not so much trying to say any of them are bad mind you. Just that they don't live up to the universal excellence of the UCM frigates.

>>51822506
I'd argue that the Pandora is probably the best combat frigate simple for its utility and power.
The Calypso is also amazingly useful for its ability to neuter Diamonds, focused Scourge beams, all the UCM stuff (especially the Avalon/Perth), and generally big guns.

It's not quite as versatile as the Jakarta, Lima, or Opal, but it's damn powerful.

>>51820886
I don't have much experience, but I really think the Moscow is competitive for #1 heavy cruiser, possibly excepting Bellerophon.

How do corvettes work? I've got a copy of the rulebook and I can see that each faction has an in-atmosphere fighter profile, but I can't find any rules on how to use them. Am I missing something?

>>51823512
They're regular ships that fit in the same Light-tonnage battlegroup slots that frigates do, just tinier. Their models are the closest upcoming release.

>>51822836
>I'd argue that the Pandora is probably the best combat frigate simple for its utility and power.

Honestly the Pandora and the Europa for me are tied at best frigate status. With the ability to shoot both sides after moving 10" and without popping a signature, the Europa is fucking amazing at dealing surprising about of damage and just pushing enemy vessels into crippled status after a volley from elsewhere.

>>51817283
>ipod in the station
What does Dave listen to while he builds?

>>51820886
PHR Heavy Cruisers actually seem pretty awful to me. The ones that aren't overspecialised are too expensive. Their cruisers are pretty great, though.

>>51824606
The Achilles and the Hector are 200% trash, no doubt about it.

The Bellerophron is worth every point.

>>51824650
Stop bullying the Hector, it's literally a tougher Orion with a better prow gun.

>>51826841

Takes a Vanguard slot rather than a Line slot, though. There's the tragedy- the 2nd stringer always gets put in, the 1st stringer is benched as often as not unless the other guy's lineup has Bellerophon;s number.

>>51826841
>>51827505

>that scene where a red-eyed and sniffling Hektor-chan glares at a hesitantly-approaching Orion-chan and growls out "Don't you dare pity me. Not from you."

>>51824650
Hector is just mediocre. If you can get good use out of both laser and broadsides then she is an extremely good ship, the only problems are a bit of difficulty using both weapons to their full potential thanks to limited arcs and of course being overshadowed by that huge bitch Bellepheron.

It's just like Shenlong-chan, forever living in her big sister's shadow. She'll never actually be worth taking because the alternative is just better.

>>51828543
At least Akuma is a whole different class.

Bellerophon-tan is fellow heavy cruiser, isn't she?

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>>51827583
>>51828543
>Bellepheron's face

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>>51827583
>>51828543
>>51828893
>>51828985
I have no idea why Dropfleet lends itself so easily to the shipgirl menace. I'm just glad I don't have to roll gacha for my waifus.

Hey Moth, Scourge-chan when?

>>51829090
>wanting scourge-chan
>instead of redoubtable Bellerophon-tan
>or peerless Heracles-sama

So, /dcg/, I went through the last few threads and put together a simple, shitty errata based on all of our misinformed opinions :^)

http://pastebin.com/F0XhZspa

What else needs to be added in to utterly destroy the balance?

>>51829962
>forgetting to increase Ruby and Obsidian price alongside the particle lance buff
Tsk tsk

Also scald on the reverse-grav cannons is pretty clever. It's a damage buff that complements the Scylla's close range defensive function without giving it the firepower of a full gun frigate. And I'd make it 43 points rather than 44, it's not worth more than a Djinn even with scald.

>>51830476
>>forgetting to increase Ruby and Obsidian price alongside the particle lance buff
>Tsk tsk
I have failed the thread;
>Adamant/Ruby to 205
>Obsidian to 160

And, while we're at it

>Scylla to 43
>"Plasma Squall" on Nickar gains Scald.
>Nickar to 42

>>51830537
>Nickar to 42
WEW, 24*

>>51830537
I think a more important thing for the Nickar is outlier, unless that got erratad already.

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>>51829090
/tg/ has a pretty significant weeaboo population despite being in denial about it.

File: Bloody Backers.png (867KB, 540x960px) Image search: [Google]

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>oy, bloody channers making way-foos out of my ships innit
How likely is it that at least one member of the Hawk team shitposts here, or at least lurks.
Surely they must have figured out that we're one of the primary leaks for their rulebooks.

>>51831609
I have to assume after the big kickstarter mess someone did some searching. Us calling out that dumbass with his creepy snuff shit would have drawn attention without a single doubt in my mind. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the email for Andrew was supplied by the lurker just to get things fixed up since a weirdly high amount of people were missing their things on here.

>>51831695
>Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the email for Andrew was supplied by the lurker just to get things fixed up since a weirdly high amount of people were missing their things on here.
Sorry to say anon, but I posted that, and I'm not from Hawk. I just got it from the KS comments, and I have no idea where they got it from.

>>51831809
ah hell, well I said I wouldn't be surprised, not that I thought that actually happened. thanks for bringing the info anyway!

When you do think we might be seeing alternative troop deployment?
You know; superheavy troop carriers, heavy strike carriers, light motherships, etc etc.

>>51832338
I wouldn't go too overboard with that idea. Managing ground asset tokens is enough of a pain already without the ability to dump five from a single ship or anything equally ridiculous.

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>>51829700
>not wanting shipgirls for every last race and class
We have to go deeper if we want to win the meme war, anon!

>>51831695
>dumbass with his creepy snuff shit
Wait, wut?

>>51833940
He's talking about the chastising of khell on the KS comments. Dude was into some fucked up furry kiddie snuff bullshit and got outed very publicly.

>>51833940
http://imgur.com/a/Fmjp3

>>51826841
Yes, but it's 170pts. It costs just over sixty points more than the Orion.

It's not worth it. Basically every other heavy cruiser in the game is more effective than it. Even the Achilles technically has a job that it does well, even if it's wholly shit at everything else.

>>51834738
Achilles is fine in a larger point game where she can realistically expect to have more than one suitable target for her guns. Problem is most games take place at the smallest engagement level right now, which only makes Bellepheron the better heavy cruiser in comparison.

>>51834738

Considering only the two classes, either avoiding the problems of broadsides armament/weapons free/narrow arc in Bellerophon is undercosted, or having the problems of broadsides armament/weapons free/narrow arc in Hector is undercosted.

>>51834738
Hector should really be 5-10 points cheaper. Don't underestimate that laser though, it's a mainstay of UCM for a reason.

Achilles is bad, probably worse than Hector. Underpowered heavy guns combined with underpowered torp isn't a good combination. A heavy laser can usually do a torpedo's worth of damage in a couple of turns, has the utility of flash and most importantly gets to shoot more than once. Torps need a buff, as soon as people stop dancing their ships around to avoid them they lose a lot of their effectiveness.

Heavy guns just suck dick on a mathematical level. A tiny bit more average damage against preferred targets with 3+ armour and slightly more reliable against most preferred targets, they have literally nothing else over mediums.

Just got my ships and started assembling.

Please tell me the Heracles is a good ship anons.

I love it and its ridiculous gun too much. It's going to be a core part of all my PHR fleets.

>>51835498
It's a good ship. Snipes real nicely.

>>51835346

I suppose I am sort of using my Bellerophon as if she were a Hector that does everything she can do, do it on a minor spike, and with CAW guns.

What are some useful metrics you guys use for analyzing ships and weapons? Personally, I compare weapons with the following.

>mean, of course
>deviation, of course
>efficiency (of attacks)
The ratio of the mean over the maximum damage; an efficient weapon system is one that does an average damage close to its maximum. For example, the particle lance triad has an efficiency of .833, while a 2x 6400 bank against 4+ armor only has an efficiency of .500
This value is very, very heavily linked to lock value, but is effected by the overall number of attacks as well as special rules.
>maximum, of course
These four values, I find, are excellent methods of comparison between systems without needing to dig into exact damage distributions. Additionally, the efficiency value also provides a measure of how skewed the damage distribution is, to some degree.

Additionally, when comparing ships, the values I look at are:
>maximum weapon statistics overall on weapons free
>maximum weapon statistics in any given arc on weapons free
>best weapon statistics overall on standard orders
>best weapon statistics in any given arc on standard orders

Thrust, armor, scan, sig, points, and special rules all play an important but far more subjective role, of course.

Ayy lmao

--------------------------------------
PHR 3000 - 3000pts
PHR - 18 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (359pts)
1 x Minos - 285pts - S
+ Grand Director (140pts, 6AV)
2 x Calypso - 74pts - L

SR21 Vanguard battlegroup (397pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L

SR35 Vanguard battlegroup (657pts)
1 x Leonidas - 195pts - H
1 x Leonidas - 195pts - H
3 x Theseus - 267pts - M

SR24 Vanguard battlegroup (560pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
4 x Pandora - 200pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (298pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
3 x Echo - 90pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (298pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
3 x Echo - 90pts - L

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (291pts)
1 x Ganymede - 135pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

>>51837091
I use
>average damage against 4+ armour
>percentage whiffing chance
>change in average damage against 3+/5+ armour
>arcs
Maximum damage isn't that helpful, calculations are only really relevant to planning and you should never plan around getting max damage.

Ships are a little more complicated, factional differences make things a lot harder to compare. I tend to just compare differences directly and try to find each ship's role in the fleet.

>>51837374
>Maximum damage isn't that helpful
I both do and don't agree; it depends entirely on the skewness of the distribution, and thus the "efficiency" measure. Weapons with high efficiency have a more relevant maximum damage.

Chance to whiff is a good measurement as well, but I feel like it's far too small on pretty much every weapon to be worth worrying about. Hell, it only matters on weapons with few attacks, those pretty much being only being F(N) weapons; in particular lances, the DMC, and all beams save for the Scourge wide spread.

I've found that after some games under my belt, my combat-groups are getting organized around a "high likelyhood of getting five points of damage through to single targets on demand" principle.

>>51837588
I wouldn't say that's quite enough, honestly. A proper, focused combat-group should have enough firepower to bring a cruiser to near-dead, close enough to where crippling effects are likely to kill it.

For example, two Berling and three Toulon is enough to outright alpha anything sub-battlecruiser size on standard orders.

>>51837967

Oh, there's multiples of it in some groups, but that's the basic unit. Anything that isn't that might as well be going into a strike carrier.

>>51837967
>Berling
wew

So with starter sets currently sold out how bad of an idea is it to use my extra cruiser and frigate sprues along with one cruiser box I buy to make my own starter sets?

Picked up the starter set because its a good deal right? Will I gimp myself if I build the ships to match the quickstart rules? I intend to go on with the scourge but hoping to goad a few friends in with the demo games.

>>51839283
A starter set is simple three cruiser sprues and one frigate sprue.

Three cruisers and four frigs are kind that minimum intro game size.

>>51839823
The intro fleets aren't that bad, but I'd personally build a Raiju, a Hydra, a Sphinx, 2 Djinn, and 2 Gargoyle

>>51840078
Why the Raiju over an Ifrit?

>>51823576

Speaking of upcoming releases, are we expecting anything at SALUTE this year? Like the non-KS Battlecruiser designs for example?

At the very least I'm hoping for the Corvettes to be available by then.

>>51840164
Single powerful weapon goes great with Stealth, and the Shenlong is outclassed by the Akuma in every way.

>>51839867
I understand that. Kinda just pondering if I should buy the cruiser box or wait and get the extra value from picking up the starter set. Only reason picking up a cruiser box would give me starter set numbers is thanks to the backer rewards giving me a cruiser and 4 frigates already.

>>51829700
>Not wanting bulliable Voidgate-chan

I reworked Distraction Minos, how does it look?

--------------------------------------
DISTRACTION MINOS - 1240pts
PHR - 10 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (285pts)
1 x Minos - 285pts - S
+ Vice Director (40pts, 3AV)

SR20 Vanguard battlegroup (360pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H

SR5 Line battlegroup (89pts)
1 x Theseus - 89pts - M

SR5 Line battlegroup (130pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (168pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
3 x Echo - 90pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (168pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
3 x Echo - 90pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

>>51842553
Alternately, just to have a flexible Cairo equivalent.

--------------------------------------
DISTRACTION MINOS - 1250pts
PHR - 10 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (285pts)
1 x Minos - 285pts - S
+ Vice Director (40pts, 3AV)

SR20 Vanguard battlegroup (360pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H

SR9 Line battlegroup (286pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

SR5 Line battlegroup (89pts)
1 x Theseus - 89pts - M

SR2 Pathfinder battlegroup (100pts)
2 x Pandora - 100pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (90pts)
3 x Echo - 90pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

>>51841205

That's what packs of Echoes are for. I means, trios of Echoes are for bullying Voidgate. Voidgate is for bullying.

>Glass is so that something, somewhere loves Voidgate and wants to protect her smile.
>even if it's just 1 hp and is constantly distracted into going after non-corvettes.

>>51842699
>implying Glass sees voidgates as anything more than boxes on a checklist
There's just so many, you can't be expected to care about all of them. Or any of them.

Calling it now, 8-12 Glass will be the next Shaltari cheese.

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>>51829700
>Ajax just wants to be noticed
>Orion is nice and dependable
>Achilles tries to hard
>Hector never not haughty
>Bellepheron smug because she's the best CA hands down

It writes itself

OK, guys, what's good to build first for each faction with a Commodore Pledge and 1 starter for each faction (7 cruisers, 1 battlecruiser, 16 Frigates)?

So far I've made:

>Shaltari
Jet
Onyx
Obsidian
3 Emerald
2 Basalt
9 Voidgates (obviously)
2 Opal
6 Amethyst
4 Jade
4 Topaz
Curious on BC, thinking of a sniper team group of Adamant, Obsidian and backup Jades, vs Amethyst, Ruby, Jet CAW rape.

>PHR
2 Andromedas
2 Medeas
So far aiming for Orion, Bellerophon, Orpheus
Unsure on Pndora vs Europa and where Theseus are worth it when Orion seems to be so much more value. Also whether to bother with Ikaruses or just pile on Bellerophons

>Scourge
Let my friend choose his starter line up, currently
2 Djinns
2 Gargoyles
2 Hydra
1 Shenlong
Probably going to go for Akuma BC, no idea with scourge

>UCM
literally no fucking clue

This is with a view to running demo games and growing a scene, want to have a competent pool to try some subtle variations on basic themes and different scenarios, but still be useful in big boy games. Magnetising does not appeal to me.

TL;DR requesting a fun shopping list for starting out. Don't trust dflist stats on their own to give a true picture.

>>51845181

>Theseus is convinced that if she keeps doing her best, she'll grow up to be just like Leonidas
>Scipio is the only one Bellerophon doesn't get to, and she's kind of intimidated by her
>one time Bellerophon started complaining hw everybody looks up to Scipio but not her and she's just like Scipio but even better
>Orion listened gravely and then innocently recounted all the times Scipio tanked the enemy all by herself while handing out fighter coverage and making cleanup bomber attacks on targets the other ships didn't quite cripple but made sure to congratulate them for their gunnery making it possible
>and how Bellerophon is always hanging back in fights and hogging the good strategy card matchups and she loves Bellerophon and all but Scipio makes her feel safe

>>51845366

Time in dflist is still worth it because it'll give you an idea of what lists are possible to make. Theseus really don't compete with Orions in list construction at all, for example.

>if you have two Andromedas, there isn't much point for an Icarus, I don't think.
>get at least two troopships built if you aren't magnetizing

>>51845366
You should have made more Opals instead of Jades, they're god tier and Jades are just inferior Topazes.
Palladium is a really weird ship that may be terrible or may be great. Nobody really knows. Adamant is the safe option there.
If you're making a Jet you should probably get another blue ball ship of some kind in there. Shaltari bombardment relies on multiple ships combining their fire, otherwise it isn't all that effective.

Pandoras and Europas are just different, Pandoras snipe from afar and mark targets while Europas reinforce broadside teams. Both are good.
Theseus are primarily frigate killers that are faster and cheaper than Orions. They work extra well with Europas because both like going fast and Europas can supply a bit more versatile firepower.
Ikarus have a different role to Bells. Bells hang back while Ikarus move forward with broadside groups to hand out quick fighter support and sometimes knock off frigates with their bombers. Andromedas fill a similar role though and you already have those, so you can go without them.
Make Calypsos you fuck.
Leonidas is a better battlecruiser than Scipio imo. It has a more clear role, let Bells or Andromedas handle the massed bomber waves.

Basilisk/Akuma is the dangerously cheesy ship for Scourge. Unfortunately it completely invalidates the Shenlong, so the latter will not see much use in tourneys. Hydras are great though.
Make the obligatory troopship for cruisers, but aside from that do what you like. I feel naked without at least 1 BTL in my fleet, but that's probably just because I main UCM. CA cruisers work best in pairs, so if you go for Wyverns build 2 of them.
4 Djinns and 4 Gargs are what I'd recommend for frigates, beyond that my only advice is to not half-ass it if you decide on Scyllas or Charybdis. 2 of either just doesn't work, you need a full group of 4 to get real value out of them.

UCM will get its own post.

>>51845366
> 7 cruisers
>Shaltari list has 8
In any case, in order;

>Shaltari
I'd drop down to 4 of each frigate, honestly; the Jade is shit, but a buff is all but assured.
BC should definitely be the Adamant.

>PHR
Leonidas for BC, unless you really want carrier skew.
2 Bellerophon
2 Theseus
2 Orpheus
Orion
4 Medea
2 Europa
2 Calypso
4 Pandora

>Scourge
Basilisk as BC
Chimera
Ifrit
Either 2 Strix, 2 Yokai, or a Wyvern and another Ifrit
4 Gargoyle
2 Djinn
2 Harpy
4 Charybdis

>UCM
Whichever BC you got, hopefully both.
2 Seattle
2 New Cairo
Moscow
San Francisco
Either a Madrid or a Rio
4 Lima
6 New Orleans
2 Toulon
2 Jakarta
2 Taipei

>>51845866
For UCM cruisers:
>1 Sanfran
>1 Seattle
>2 medium lasers (either Berlins or New Cairos)
>1 Madrid (unless you plan on getting a Tokyo)
>1 heavy brawler (either Moscow or Atlantis)
That covers all your basic needs for cruisers, you can choose what else.

For frigates I'd recommend:
>4 Toulons or Taipeis
>2 Jakartas
>4 Limas
>6 New Orleans
A couple of the New Orleans can be switched for combat frigates pretty easily if you want both Taipeis and Toulons.

>>51846059
2 madrids and a tokyo in a 1250 list. I swear I'm going to preach this until they release corvettes and I can finally justify making an order and testing it.

So do people still play DZC or does everyone just play the fleet game now?

I've got a local guy getting into the game with me and I'm working on bulking out my UCM forces. I have the following

>UCM Starter set
>1 eagle gunship
>2 Raven A dropships
>2 Scimitar tanks
>3 katana tanks
>1 kodiak command vehicle

I'm trying to figure out what I want to do next. I really like the tanks the UCM has as well as their CAS like the Eagle and the Raven B, I was thinking of getting

>a set of Hazard Suits
>a set of praetorian snipers
>2 sets of the Praetorian CQC guys
>another set of Raven A troop carrier dropships
>1 Albatross
>another UCM starter set to get some more condors
>1 Seraphim
>a pair of Falcon Gunships
>a pair of Gladius tanks
>3 more Katanas
>Phoenix command gunship
>General Arthur J Wade
>maybe another Eagle just because it looks cool and I like them


I'd like to have a strong core around a nice little armored fist and some aggressive air support and infantry elements. I also like having a bit of everything to experiment with lists.

Will this keep me pretty happy or is there something I'm missing/have too much of? I know Arthur is only allowed with an opponent's permission, I'm mainly just getting him because the tank looks cool.

>>51846435
Get a Ferrum. Yes, I know it's ugly as hell. Get it anyway. That thing is your lifeline.

You can use Wade's model as a regular Broadsword too, and they're pretty good now since their range got buffed. But keep in mind that UCM is first and foremost the air support army. Ground units are there to support flying things, not the other way around.

>>51846518
>But keep in mind that UCM is first and foremost the air support army. Ground units are there to support flying things, not the other way around.
For someone who has never played DZC, how does that even work

>>51846518
>as a regular Broadsword too,

You mean I can just take those things as regular tanks...

Oh baby. What are their rules in for generic ones? I thought that Arthur was the only guy that got one and there were no generics.

>>51846530
Aircraft like Eagles, Falcons and most importantly the Ferrum's drones are your primary killers, and the drones can also scout. Tanks are there to fill in the gaps and do stuff like kill AA, perform their own AA and take focal points.

>>51846540
The generic Broadsword is from Phase 2, in the book the model appears to be the same as Wade's. The gun's stats are a bit different, it's E11 with Devastator 2 instead of 1D3 and a countered range of 36". It costs 79 points.

>>51846650
So does this mean that regular old tanks like Sabres, Katanas, Scimitars, and Gladiuses are absolutely useless, or just that they're not the be all end all.

I'm just going to be playing casually, so as long as regular tanks aren't completely garbage I'm not too worried. I love their looks and mainly want to field them because they look cool.

>>51846713
a bunch of people will tell you that they are, and are a burdensome tax that you are forced to use on occasion. This is however a very skewed viewpoint which results from minmaxing tourney play, a lack of minor cover, and a focus on playing more infantry centric mission types.

The Sabre is a solid ground unit which while not outstanding does what it needs to do reasonably well. The katana is a good alternative choice and can be more effective against certain enemies. The gladius can put out some decent firepower, and in large numbers are hard to deal with, and the scimitar gives you some very solid lane control. They can all be taken in lists and used to good effect.

>>51846713
They aren't terrible, they're worthwhile for casual games. The UCM doesn't have any Vampire-tier dumpster fire units as far as I can tell. Personally I hate Praetorian snipers and think they're awful, but some people seem to like them so maybe it's just me.

Remember to actually use non-building terrain, a lot of tables even for tourneys render the Articulated rule (and the Walker rule for shorter units) worthless because there's absolutely no cover aside from huge buildings.

>>51846889
what's a good resource for small cover? Should I look at model train stuff or something?

Ey lads, you think we'll ever get new battlegroup compositions for DFC at some far off date?

>Sternguard Battlegroup, 1-3
>0-1 Heavy
>0-2 Medium
>0-2 Light

>Capital Group, 1-2
>1-1 Flag
>0-1 Heavy
>0-1 Medium

>Look up results for Warboar DFC tourney onna Hawk Forums
>winner is Shaltari
>21 Glass spam
Jesus Christ

>>51847805
I have no idea why their weapons aren't CA. From both a fluff and balance perspective it makes sense, and it would make the mad damage they can deal less of an issue. Against Scourge or other Shaltari they're disgustingly strong right now, 6 of them out-damage a weapons free Amber against 4+ armour, and lighter 5+ targets can just go fuck themselves.

>>51847908
Honestly I'd bump them down to 4 attacks, maybe bring their points cost down to 17 or 16 in response, but definitely bring them down to 4 attacks.

I don't think the Ion Lances should be CAW, as it definitely fits with the Shaltari modus operandi of "bullshit fuckery", but as it stands they have ridiculous damage potential for 18 points.

>>51848043

What if we just reduced their group size to the same as the other Corvettes?

I got six cruiser hulls with my kickstarter stuff. Right now I have two Orions and an Orpheus put together. I'm planning on adding another troopship and having the Orions cover the landers, but I'm wondering what to take as my Heavy. Should I buy into the Bellepheron memes or go all the way for a Scipio/Leonidas?

>>51848043
Their range is the problem though. It's what makes them so effective as combat ships, their damage/cost ratio is actually similar to Santiagos and Nickars. A long range does not help them in their intended corvette role (hunting strike carriers in atmosphere) and makes them too effective outside that role, so there's no point in keeping it around.
The only issue I see with their damage is that massive armour deviation. 6 of them average 3.33 against a Medea, barely enough to cripple, but against a voidgate or Garg that doubles into 6.66 damage, which can reliably kill/cripple 2 or less reliably take out 3. The armour values and their pricing are balanced around crits, so having a weapon that can't ever crit fucks that up a little.

>>51848332
Those particular memes are based in truth, but Leo is also a really good ship. I'd say to build Bell first and then go for Leo afterwards.

>>51848332
Those aren't memes, boy, they're fact. The Bellerophron is the only good PHR heavy cruiser.

>>51848332
I'm not a fan of the Scipio's lack of prow weapons. Belle can deal damage out the front and paint targets thanks to her medium BTL. Scipio's light batteries just aren't as useful imo, even though you get to throw fucktons of dice with them.

>>51848624
>Their range is the problem though. It's what makes them so effective as combat ships, their damage/cost ratio is actually similar to Santiagos and Nickars. A long range does not help them in their intended corvette role (hunting strike carriers in atmosphere) and makes them too effective outside that role, so there's no point in keeping it around.

I want to both agree and disagree with you, simple because while your logic is sound, the Glass is really the only effective light attack ship the Shaltari have to fill out their roster. The Topaz is meh for its cost, and the Amethyst is amazingly expensive, so they're left with the Glass to fill the empty spots in their list for some extra combat ship presence.

Additionally, your argument is somewhat flawed. If corvettes are for ONLY hunting frigates in atmos, then the Echo shouldn't get its medium gun.

I would reduce the Glass to 4 attacks, reduce it to 16 or 17 points (20% reduction in firepower for about 11-5% reduction in cost), as well as either A) reducing its arc to F only, or B) nerfing their armor to 6+

Alternately, another option is to keep them at 5 attacks and their current pricing and all, but make them F(N) with vectored. That'd seem like some Shaltarti fuckery.

>>51849231

The Scipio moves like a light cruiser, shoots frigates with a linked broadside on standard orders, and stages bombers from the middle of the table. That isn't competing with what the Bellerophon does in games that you can take both.

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>an hour since last post
>already page 8
What the hell is happening on /tg/

>>51849604
I would personally say that if you're taking a battlecruiser and a Bellerophon, the Leonidas is a better bet.

The Leonidas performs the role of front line spearhead much better, able to delve deep into enemy lines and unleash all its firepower immediately. Pair it with a few Europas and watch them delete ships left and right.

The Bellerophon is perfectly designed, able to hang back and use its burnthroughs to snipe while chucking out bombers. It's lack of broadsides means it loses nothing by hanging back to mitigate the spikes that come with launching.

I'd only take the Scipio and the Bellerophon in the same list if I were making a heavy bomber skew.

>>51850371
>I'd only take the Scipio and the Bellerophon in the same list if I were making a heavy bomber skew

You're phrasing that as if it's a corner-case thing, anon, and not one of the current pillars of PHR fleet design.

Bump because /tg/ is unreasonably fast.

Is there anything wrong with breaking up CAW targets by ship for a battlegroup? I.E., just because you can pool, you don't have to?

>>51852733
I can see the argument, but you really want to make sure you can overwhelm PD and you never know when you'll roll low on your CAW attack numbers.

>>51850763
Generally I find that two Bellerophon do me well enough.

You need Orions and Thesei to present an immediate threat the enemy has to deal with before going after your carriers. Broadsides are pretty damn effective so long as you avoid dud ships like the Achilles or the Perseus.

>>51854461
>Thesei
It's Greek, not Latin, anon.
Theseopodes*

>>51854461

>You need Orions and Thesei to present an immediate threat the enemy has to deal with before going after your carriers. Broadsides are pretty damn effective so long as you avoid dud ships like the Achilles or the Perseus.

The advantage of the Scipio is to be part of that immediate threat. But if you are playing it like it's a Bellerophon I can see being underwhelmed.

>Bellerophon-tan get off the internet

>>51854716
I wouldn't play a Scipio like a Bell. I'd just rather have my carriers further back, as every turn they bring out launch assets they're popping a spike, and other ships do the Scipio's secondary job better.

I honestly find that the light broadside ships are kinda meh at their intended purpose. The Ajax gets away with it because it has the extra utility of the burnthrough, but really, the Theseus is way better at its intended role of sweeping away frigates, what with it being able to target four ships with its side arcs.

>>51854711
podes is the plural for feet, it's right for Octopodes, not Theseus. I believe it would be Theseis, as basileus -> basileis.

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>>51855052
>forgot the source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_nouns#Stems_in_eu.2C_au.2C_ou

PS: Psst, kid. Wanna learn some ancient greek?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq5ea-jR9u2puDaLoRL-nBkpwrkURbLjT

>>51855052
I know, I'm just shitposting :^), but thanks for the info anon, I actually didn't know that.

Orpheus or Ganymede for this anon's first Troopship? While the Orpheus has a BTL, it's not a particularly heavy one (coming from a former UCM main). Ganymede's bombardment serves dual purpose to lay down some high-calibre bullying on Voidgate-chan and her strike carrier friends. Any pointers?

>>51855972
Bombardment guns can't target ships at all, while the Orpheus can get past the 6+ atmo penalty with its handful of 12 dice out one side.

Orpheus is a best.

>>51855972
Orph. The broadsides are better, the front guns are better and bombardment can only hit ground targets. Ganymede is also forced to carry the entire faction's bombardment on her own, and she's not really capable of that.

>>51856249
>>51856331
Can't bombardment weapons in low orbit hit targets in atmosphere on a 6+? I heard it was in an errata, correct me if I'm mistaken.

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>>51854741
>Haha, make me!

>>51855972
Orpheus. Better broadsides, better front guns, and frankly, you're getting bombardment on Medeas.

The Orpheus can contribute meaningfully to battle while also being cheaper. The Ganymede is an expensive bandaid on the extreme weakness PHR have when it comes to bombardment, but not effective enough really matter.

Generally, you don't want things to get to the point where you need loads of bombardment with PHR.

How does an anon proxy a Nickar good?

>>51858342
Slap a set of Djinn plasma arrays together and add some bits to taste.

It actually bothers me that Dave's Nickar model has oculus orbs and no visible plasma apertures when the ship's armed with nothing but plasma.

>>51858433
At least it ain't the Glass. Not sure what our weapon is on that thing or how it's a full 360 weapon on a needle shaped ship.

>>51858342
>>51858433
>>51858504

>PHR smugness intensifies

>>51858433
Until I get them in hand and confirm, I'm actually thinking they might have plasma weaponry on the underside of their nose.

>>51858504
It's the five rods running along the length, anon. The glass is supposed to be so maneuverable and agile that it can hit anything in its F/S arcs with a fixed mount weapon.

>Scrolling through Hawk Wargames youtube page
>Notice they subscribed to Beasts of War and Miniwargaming
>Check their subscriptions
>all they're subscribed to is the two above and some cosplayer named FloWdriver who posts up a bunch of vlogs

I can't help but find it adorable that Dave probably uploaded the new Avenger construction videos and just forgot he was still on the work account when he subscribed to somebody.

>>51860677
Kek

Do I have to take a Sanfran to compete? Its so ugly and weak.

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>>51862377
Not really; troopships are good because they can quickly get shit down into clusters without needing to stop in atmos, and defense batteries are pretty good, but strike carrier spam is never bad.

Also, fuck you for calling the Sanfran ugly, it's the best looking troopship/mothership in the game.

>>51862513

>dammit anon now i have to re-convince orpheus that she's a beautiful cuddle-sized ajax and not fat at all

>>51858342
I construct them out of heavy cruiser hats. Stick the side pieces onto the central piece like wings and you're done. They look good, are easy to make and you get one for every cruiser sprue you have.

>>51862377
No, but you'd better have a plan to compensate for the massed infantry and defence battery. Also corvettes to defend your strike carriers, because you'll need to make sure they survive.

>clippers, files, and greenstuff finally get in today
>pretty much all day off tommorow
Finally habbening, boys

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoJ4q9lUgoc

>>51864974
So anons, whats the most you've done in the wargaming hobby that could be used as a tax write off because holy shit Dave just has an entire UCM army for whenever he feels like playing epic now

>>51864974
>no Chromia class orbital relay base
Dropped

10mm Medea with full complement when?

>>51864974

>actual fucking awe

4 Ferrum per Strike Carrier, it's cannon.

>>51866953
3, technically, with 4 kodiaks

>>51864974
Holy fuck that's a lot of Condors.

I keep forgetting how big the frigates are.

Kinda makes me feel bad about shooting them out of orbit unless it's Edgehogs or Squids.

>>51864974
TYPE 7 GRAND WALKER
W H E N

>check hawk forums
>all these hyper ground focused fleets
Christ; I know the game is about landing troops, but fucking hell, it's not right to have more than a third of your points in troops.
There really ought to be a limit of some kind as to how many strike carriers and troopships you can bring.

>>51862513
That's not the Emerald.

>>51869103
>a
>fucking
>(you)-eff-oh

>>51868551
How much we talking? 50%? All strike carriers, or a lot of troophships?

>>51870478
>three troopships and eight strike carriers
>twelve strike carriers
>four motherships and twelve voidgates
>etc

>>51870565
>remember predicting 4 Emeralds in Shaltari lists
>Told I was crazy
Who's crazy now /dcg/? Now I just gotta wait for Scourge Frigate spam to become a thing and I can put on my happy little 'meta predictor' hat and pretenl 4 madrids and 2 tokyos is the standard 'meta breaker' list.

>>51871166
Would Scourge corvette spam count? Someone posted this on the forums, and I honestly can't tell if it's a joke or not.

--------------------------------------
Scourge Swarmer Fleet - 1241pts
Scourge - 0 launch assets

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (192pts)
1 x Raiju - 160pts - H
+ Fleet Enslaver (20pts, 2AV)
1 x Gargoyle - 32pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (215pts)
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M
3 x Nickar - 66pts - L
2 x Nickar - 44pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (215pts)
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M
3 x Nickar - 66pts - L
2 x Nickar - 44pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (215pts)
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M
3 x Nickar - 66pts - L
2 x Nickar - 44pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

>>51871301
The sheer swarm of Nickars murdering everything in their path puts a tear in my eye. 5 Nickars is 100 points on the dot, can move 16" in space, get to roll 5d6 damage and who fucking cares if they die whenever a hit lands, you have 4 more. What's the diamond going to do, shoot one with its fucking triad?

I think this is just the inevitable end result of the scourge combat doctrine. We'll be thankful they don't have scald, because that would fucking murder ships.

>>51871365
>5 Nickars is 100 points on the dot
110*, actually.

But yes, honestly, I feel like the Nickar is a super-efficient Djinn even with only 4+ lock.

I still think they should have outlier and scald, along with an upcost to 25 points

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>>51871455
I love the Djinn for its ability to utterly fuck up a big ships day (the 3+ lock matters going after bigger ships) but I could easily see mixing the 2 to have the nickars fuck up anything cheap's day and the Djinns taking the bigger problems.

>spoiler
you're basically proposing this image but replacing the two options with 'make scourge the best race' or 'acknowledge the other races exist'

actually could we edit the image to have that with that one RPG looking scourge fighter's face? We do need new memes.

>>51871572
Honestly, the Nickar need to be upcosted anyways, even without being given Scald or Outlier; Technically speaking, the average of 1d6 is 3.5, not 3, so they already have an edge over the Santiago and Echo.

How's this for an initial 999 points? Bear in mind this uses literally every one of my ships bar a second Calypso.

--------------------------------------
PHRTest - 985pts
PHR - 6 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (264pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
+ Vice Director (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Andromeda - 84pts - L

SR5 Line battlegroup (130pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M

SR13 Line battlegroup (295pts)
2 x Europa - 80pts - L
2 x Theseus - 178pts - M
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (256pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Pandora - 100pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

>>51871572
>We do need new memes.
Someone should hire moth to draw more shipgirls.

>>51872430
I'd consider moving the Andromedas in with the Orpheus and putting the Calypso on the Bell.
The Theseus battlegroup is likely to be drawing more fire than a single Calypso can possibly alleviate, while a high value backline target like the Bell could use that protection against opposing superweapon fire.

Those Andromedas will also do more good in the midlines handing out fighter escort or finishing off wrecked ships instead of tossing out single delayed bombers.

>>51873142
Duly noted and corrected.

--------------------------------------
PHRTest - 985pts
PHR - 6 launch assets

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (217pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
+ Vice Director (40pts, 3AV)
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (214pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Andromeda - 84pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (258pts)
2 x Europa - 80pts - L
2 x Theseus - 178pts - M

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (256pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Pandora - 100pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Hey lads, I may be going to the Adepticon tournament, and I was wondering what you think of this list.

--------------------------------------
.UCM Tourney - 1242pts
UCM - 3 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
+ UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (202pts)
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
2 x Toulon - 70pts - L

SR15 Line battlegroup (264pts)
3 x New Cairo - 264pts - M

SR10 Line battlegroup (209pts)
1 x Madrid - 79pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

I was thinking of reducing the Seattle to just a Rio, which would allow me to take another Toulon or a Jakarta.

Basically, the roles of the groups are as follows:
>Vanguard
Anti-cruiser and anti-specialist-ship; the Perth with its Limas is excellent at sniping enemy carriers, troopships, and other high priority targets.

>Line 1
Anti-frigate and cleanup; the Seattle with its toulons can spread a lot of fine-grained firepower over weakened targets, with bombers being especially effective at crippling frigates. The Rio +1 more Toulon variant is slightly less powerful overall compared to the one with the Seattle, but provides more targets and more power on standard orders without taking a spike. Adding a Jakarta rather than a third Toulon is also a possibility.

>Line 2
Anti-capital; with a fairly high probability of doing over 10 damage per turn, possibly 18, and no need to ever go weapons free, three New Cairos can bring down pretty much any ship in the game; two of them are enough to ensure a particularly troublesome cruiser or heavy cruiser is dead (or able to be cleaned up by Line 1); splitting them up into ones provides excellent power to chew through enemy light cruisers.

>everything else
Self explanatory

>>51874953
Seems like a very strong all comer's list. Biggest challenge will be knowing how to meet each opponent. What's your gameplan for the glass spam or quad mothership shaltari? Double or triple akuma scourge? And potentially triple bell PHR?

>>51876576
>What's your gameplan?
>Perth and New Cairos
I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPgNEpecy6c#t=9s

>>51876576
>glass spam
Rio and Toulons, anon. That's enough to pop four per turn on standard orders, six on weapons free.

With the Seattle and Toulons I can bump that up to six right off the bat on standard orders, albeit with a spike.

>quad mothership
Two Cairos or one Perth is enough to pop a mothership per turn, and with the Limas I can light one up every turn as well. I just need to manage my approach and watch out for the Diamond, of which will probably be my Cairo's first target. The good thing about Shaltari lists is that they have very few actual combat ships, meaning that the Cairo squadron will remove a significant chunk of their power per turn.

>double or triple Akuma
I'm actually considering doing 4Lima, just to fuck with their stealth, but I'm not entirely sure. Dropping the Madrid would give me a few more points to work with, but all I could replace it with is a Sanfran and drop 2 of my carriers to make up the points.

>triple bell PHR
Make heavy use of debris and course change, and pop those suckers as fast as I can. It's actually why I'm reluctant to take a Seattle, despite its frigate killing capacity, as Jakartas are just so much better at protecting against bombers.

I was also thinking of replacing the Rio with a Berlin, just for some extra beam power, but I would like at least some guns for the sake of versatility. On the other hand, Berlin+2-lon+Jakarta is a great group.

>>51876947
Actually, dropping the Madrid and two carriers, adding a SanFran, leaves me with just enough points for a third Toulon or a second Jakarta!

--------------------------------------
.UCM Tourney - 1250pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
+ UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR15 Line battlegroup (264pts)
3 x New Cairo - 264pts - M

SR9 Line battlegroup (242pts)
1 x Rio - 105pts - M
3 x Toulon - 105pts - L
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L

SR8 Line battlegroup (177pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

I think I may end up going with this, possibly replacing the Rio with a Berlin.

>>51877009
Alternately, dropping down to two groups of two Santiago, dropping either the Jakarta or a Toulon, would allow me to go up to 4Lima.

I honestly can't decide, thread.

Can we expect Jakartas to show up more often now that corvettes are due for release soon?

>>51877504
It depends; does Aegis effect ships on separate orbital layers? If so, parking a Jakarta over a cluster in LO with some carriers in atmos would be a smart move against corvette interdiction.

>>51877724
Nope. Ships must be on the same orbital layer as the aegis ship.

>>51877761
In that case, no, since Jakartas will do absolutely nothing to protect ships in atmos. They might be useful against Nickar spam, since those are pretty much budget Djinns.

H A W K
W E B S I T E
U P D A T E

>>51878160
IT'S REAL

>>51878160
MY GOD ITS REAL GET HYPE

(I dont know what for though)

>>51849569
>If corvettes are for ONLY hunting frigates in atmos, then the Echo shouldn't get its medium gun
The Echo has fluff specifically stating that those guns are made for fighting in the void, and it pays for them by being nearly 150% the cost of Santiagos/Nickars. 120 points of Echos can put out one Orion broadside into the front arc, and while that's respectable, it's a far cry from beating the weapons frees of combat cruisers with equivalent points of Glasses.
Even with your nerf they're still highly efficient combat ships, they just need 112-119 to reach 28 dice rather than 108 to reach 30. If ion lances were beam CA then using them to fuck shit up in orbit would be a much bigger risk. Glasses could still massacre frigates and deal decent damage to bigger stuff, but to do so they would need to get to close range where their fragility is actually relevant.

>>51878836
Does anyone else feel like some of the balance issues which have cropped up in Dropfleet are more due to the fact that there arent enough controls on the list building, given that slots are based on tonnage which allows basically anything anywhere. I think it might have been better to assign ships a role as well and base list building off of that, obviously these would be somewhat broad as to not be to restrictive, but it might have prevented some of the haha im taking 500 of this lists that seem to crop up.

>compare prices on Hawk's website to prices on Wayland, Minimarket, and TheWarStore

>Hawk is undercut by barely a dollar on Minimarket and Warstore
Does Hawk still do their "shipping is free for orders over a hundred pounds" thing?

>>51878836
Fair points, and upon reading the Glass' fluff which states "they are designed solely to hunt enemy atmospheric assets", I will agree on the CAW issue.

IN EXCHANGE for this, them being made CAW(beam) with no further stat changes, I would argue that they deserve a reduction to 17 points, if at all.

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>Topaz has 5 disintegrators per bank
>2 attacks
>Cruisers have 7 disintegrators per battery
>4 attacks
>Battleships have 7 disintegrators per battery, but four of them are double sized
>4 attacks

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>>51880176
Something something reactor allocation

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My fresh Heracles bits got here while I was out. Time for dark matter!

>>51880176
It's not the size or number of your space penises that counts, it's how you use them.

>>51878083
I know that corvettes aren't really fighters or bombers, but it still rings odd to me that this game's equivalent of a destroyer would do nothing special against them.

>>51881018
Launch assets are about half the size of their tiny models, while corvettes are nearly as big as frigates. Very different beasts.

>>51878160
Man this update is slick. Plus shipping on march 3rd is great to see!

>>51878160
Forum update when

>>51881232
Huh, I didn't realize the corvettes were that big.

so, /dcg/, tomorrow i should be picking up a 2 player starter set. I've got plans for the scourge already, but the UCM I'm not sure about. I've already got 3 toulon, a berlin and a moscow i picked up second hand, and I'm not sure where to go with the rest. 2 N'awlins are an obvious start, and i'm leaning towards a madrid, but past that i'm open for suggestions.

>>51883557
I'd either go for 4 Nawlins, or 2 Nawlins and 2 Lima. Probably the former.
Cruiser wise, a Seattle, Madrid (or Sanfran, if you go 2 Nawlins 2 Lima), and another Berlin might be worth it. Alternately, replace the Berlin with a Rio, or replace both it and the Seattle with 2Osaka or 2Cairo

>>51883914
it'd have to be the nawlins/lima combo, i wont have the bits to make nawlins x4

>>51884372
Ah yeah, that's true. In that case:

>2 nawlins
>2 lima
>San Fran
>Berlin, Rio
OR
>2Cairo
OR
>2Osaka
The 2Cairo is really stronk, one of the best "destroyer" battlegroups in the game with how much firepower it can focus for so cheap.

Moscow on its lonesome
Berlin with Toulons
Sanfran with Nawlins
Cairos with Limas

Solid skirmish fleet I'd say.

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Saratoga-class light cruiser...

>>51885130
Holy shit, they're making new stuff already?

Praying for more PHR light cruisers.

>>51885158
They said it's an alternate sculpt for an existing ship, not necessarily a new ship entirely.

>>51885130
>That cocktease of a render picture
Dave, please.
Still going to be buying a full squadron of them

>>51885158
It's just a variant of the Cairo.

>>51884622
Hmm. What would you say to instead of berlin and rio, berlin and seattle?

The dual cairo is definitely a tempting top of the lot pick, though.

>>51885865
The Seattle is a straight upgrade to the Rio, but I feel like the bombers, while good at popping frigates, aren't quite worth it in regards to taking a spike.

A Rio plus a Jakarta is only slightly more expensive, and can provide far, far more PD bonus than a single Seattle can.

>>51885927
good point, and jakartas and more n'awlins will be my next gaggle of frigates as and when i get them. Cairos it will be then. Thanks for the pointers.

From there when i invariably get another box i'm thinking madrid x2, Rio, N'awlins x2 and Jakarta x2 to add some more flesh to the list for larger games. And eventually a battleship, no doubt.

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>DFC on the Hawk website
We did it /dcg/, we made it through

>>51885130
>suddenly visions of unique collectors models for every ship variant in the game.

>>51888935
noooooooooo.........

>>51888970
>Shenzen class Beijing variant

>>51885927
Seattle can provide more PD overall at longer range, but can only provide it once per turn

>>51889175
Not at all; the Seattle can provide, at max, +9 PD spread over 1-3 targets.

The Jakarta has no limit to the PD it provides; +6 straight off the bat to itself, +6 more to another ship in range, and another +6 to a second.

Keeping three ships in formation isn't hard, and that's an overall +18 PD; less effective against focused bomber strikes, but better at defending dispersed frigates and against spread out CAW.

With two Jakartas sitting on top of each other, they become the most cost-efficient PD in the game.

>>51879955
>check KS update
>they do
free shipping for every 125 dollars, and shipped and delivered in three days. Looks like I'm buying direct, now.

>>51889311
Efficient, yes. And more potential if the opponent decides to shoot multiple nearby ships. Far better if all you want is some PD. But 1 Seattle can hand out more PD to a ship than 1 Jakarta can.

I think it's just a semantics difference. I don't consider PD on multiple targets to count, probably because my opponents usually concentrate fire with things like bombers, while you do.

>>51889517
Eh, if we're only concerned about PD, a full squadron of Jakartas is cheaper than a seattle, can technically be stacked on top of each other, and will provide a total of +24 PD to anything nearby. And that's if they're escorting only one ship.

/dcg/ should I drill out the engines on my ships? Do you guys have any examples of how that ends up looking?

>>51889594
Oh, definitely. As I said, it's semantics. Jakartas are far more efficient for the purposes of local PD thanks to their price, but I'm not one to not pick a fight over semantics.

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Behold, anons, a shitty WIP pic of a Caligo-class merchant cruiser made from a very simple assemblage of bits. Will paint it soon, going to use it for civilian escort missions.

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>>51890682
Stymphalos-class salvage cutter, made from even less parts. Seattle sides make for a fantastically cavernous hold.

>>51890682
I rather like the C-clamped cargo-pod look.
Maybe another troop bay back to back for a trapezoidal (or 2-pod) look? Post more angles.

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>>51890904
Roger dodger.

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>>51890904
Big flat bit under the bridge is going to be painted as a shuttle loading elevator.

>>51890682
I like this one. Very nice.

>>51890694
Not as much of a fan of this one. The Seattle and Europa pieces clash a bit aesthetically, and the bits just don't seem to fit together as snugly as the Caligo.

>>51891235
The Caligo was made second so I consider that one an improvement anyway - hopefully the Stymphalos looks nicer when it's painted. Working with only 3 cruiser's worth of UCM spares is a bit limiting, especially when all the Moscow/Madrid bits went into making surface-to-orbit laser tokens (which I forgot to take pictures of because anon is a moron).

>>51891269
>all the railguns and cannons made a laser
Wait what

>>51891377
Oh wait, disregard that I suck cocks. Just realised what you actually meant there.

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>>51891381
Imagine that token at the back, but not painted. Credit to Hot LZ. I also made a fuckload of PHR versions using bombardment broadsides with the barrel extended.

>>51891683
Well shit, now I know what my next project is going to be for dropfleet. Did they make an armor token?

What about for Scourge?

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>>51891799
It's literally a Sabre and nothing else. Dude made a post about it, recommended using recon vehicles for smaller size.

>>51892163
Welp, looks like I'll finally have a use for my DZC stuff. Nice scheme, too.

How stupid is this idea for a Dropfleet faction gimmick, /dcg/?

>sig value of each ship is the exact same as its scan value
>every ship has 2 scan/sig values and can switch between them like Shaltari do with their shields
>corvettes/frigates are 2"/8", cruisers are 4"/10", and battleships are 6"/12"
>ships are well armoured, not quite PHR tier but a bit tougher than UCM

>>51893589
Dynamic Scan/Sig could be interesting, though potentially bonkers.

Give them a support frigate that pulls spikes from a neighbor (Martyr class?) for maximum shenanigans.

>>51893589
It's basically a universal, inherent active-scan that only gives a minor spike, rather than a major, as well as improving scan which is far superior to giving a spike.
It sounds like neat idea, but a 1:1 ratio of scan:sig is too much, I'd say.

>>51893950
Remember though that the default scan for all of them (except the battleship, it should definitely be toned down) is all kinds of terrible. I'll admit the 1:1 ratio is probably more trouble than it's worth though.
I'm considering making the scan 2"/10" for both frigates and cruisers, and 4"/12" for battleships. This could be compensated for by making the high-scan signatures higher, I'm thinking 10" for frigates, 14" for cruisers and 18" for battleships.

I'm also thinking about 4+ lock bombers with flash for even more fuckery, but that's probably a bit much.

>>51874953
>>51877009
Oh boy, a version I actually like. I think I'm going to be sticking with this for now, but what does the thread think?

--------------------------------------
.UCM Tourney - 1250pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
+ UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR15 Line battlegroup (264pts)
3 x New Cairo - 264pts - M

SR9 Line battlegroup (242pts)
1 x Rio - 105pts - M
3 x Toulon - 105pts - L
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (209pts)
1 x Madrid - 79pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (160pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

--------------------------------------
Beamlords - 1249pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
+ UCM Captain (20pts, 2AV)
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (284pts)
2 x Berlin - 210pts - M
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (240pts)
2 x New Cairo - 176pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (240pts)
2 x New Cairo - 176pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (130pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

I'm not seeing anywhere near enough lasers in this thread.

>>51894680
Swap two of those New Carios with Saratogas and you've got yourself my future list!

>>51894768
My only regret is that I couldn't fit a St Pete in there for even more beamery.

>>51894797
St. Pete is love.
Someday I'll make a list I can use it in.

>>51894680
If we're posting memes, then...

--------------------------------------
ROW ROW - 2986pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR22 Vanguard battlegroup (424pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
+ UCM Admiral (100pts, 5AV)
1 x St Petersburg - 155pts - H
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR22 Vanguard battlegroup (424pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
1 x St Petersburg - 155pts - H
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR22 Vanguard battlegroup (424pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
1 x St Petersburg - 155pts - H
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR25 Line battlegroup (474pts)
3 x New Cairo - 264pts - M
2 x Berlin - 210pts - M

SR25 Line battlegroup (474pts)
3 x New Cairo - 264pts - M
2 x Berlin - 210pts - M

SR25 Line battlegroup (474pts)
3 x New Cairo - 264pts - M
2 x Berlin - 210pts - M

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Turns out not even 3000 point games can handle the sheer memery of 9x Cairo battlegroups.

Can't confirm anything, but I've heard rumors that Hawk is considering giving linked broadsides to the following PHR ships : Orion, Ikarus, Achilles, Hector

If they did, how would that change people's opinions?

>>51895444
Orion and Ikarus are already fine, so I guess they would just be slightly more maneuverable. Achilles needs a torpedo fix and Hector needs to be cheaper, their problems lie elsewhere.

If the Hector had links set up so it could fire its laser and one broadside on standard orders, then I'd change my tune. That would be quite interesting. But linked broadsides aren't going to change that much.