/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

First for Saulot is best.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?

I posted a while back but I'll post again. I've been vaguely aware of WoD for about 5 years but never really looked into it. Heard bad things about Beast then read a cringe thread about Null Spyder and her MRA legions.
>someone in thread links to the FATAL and Friends archive
>read oWoD revivews
>binge on the wiki
>get (legal) free rules for oWoD games

And that's how I started shitposting in this general.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?


Played VtM:Bloodlines after I got it for like 7 bucks on steam. Played a campaign at my local game store with some buddies. Realized I absolutely hated the meta-plot. Tried nWoD/ChroniclesofFagness. Fell in love. Never looked back.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?
I went to a local convention knowing only AD&D and a guy was demoing Vampire : The Dark Ages. It was 16 years ago.

>>51789630
You old as fuck senpai.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?

waaay back in the early days of browsing /b/ there were story times of WtA comic books.

honestly, I thought it was stupid as shit, this was back in 2008 and 2009. Then a few weeks ago when the WtA video game was announced I gave WoD another look. both look like a mess, but a matured taste for the awful has my interest piqued for WtA and WtF.

>Looking a the forums once in a blue moon
>Find out people are having isdues with a new writer being hired
I don't really keep uo with shit but who the fuck is zak smith?

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?
Bloodlines. Vampires have always been one of my favorite monster types so that game appealed to me massively, for all its faults. I still like to play it sometimes.

From there I started getting into WoD and then CofD. I prefer CofD now (especially Awakening, mages are also one of my favorites) but I still like Masquerade.

>>51789676
I'm 31, I guess that's quite old for chan poster.
>>51789720
The previous threads have all the details, basically he's an asshole that writes rpgs (mostly OSR), and he's hated on rpg.net for being an harasser.
Also quite vocal in his political views, but alas not in a subtle way at all (the funny part is that they're quite the same views as the rpg.net guys).

>>51789522

I played a horror RPG where you played kids and we wanted to pull an IT and play adults. Read the nWoD 1e core and I was hooked. My like for oWoD stuff as well came soon after.

>>51789791

Nah, that's not old at all. I'm turning 30 this year myself.

>>51789791

He's also got an extremely fragile ego and spent a year either impersonating as an RPG historian on Reddit to make himself look better or, if you believe what he says, let a roommate use his own computer to impersonate as an RPG historian to make him look better.

Dracula loves the man and has denied that any harassment or any wrong doing had happened in a PR piece yesterday, which potentially drives a stake into the relationship with their most regular licensor.

>>51789791
What do you mean by voicing political views?

>>51789804
Oh I don't feel old, but I feel like the majority is more near 25 here.

>>51789522

My friends were sick of D&D, so one of them bought Geist. I did the only reasonable thing and played a Changeling.

What a glorious shitshow.

Maybe this is the wrong place for it, but if you have any reservations about Zak Smith being hired to write for new White Wolf, let them know at [email protected]

>>51789791
>>51789804
>being in your 30's

Dinosaurs pls leave

t.19 year old

>>51789876
There was a screenshot of the VN about a character killing trump supporters because lolintolerant, another character saying something like old doctors don't have to tell her what medicine to take for her man to female transition, you know the usual not-subtle-at-all preach.

>>51789906
Because the complaints were so helpful with Brucato. I'm psure the default line from White Wolf and OPP is to pretend bad things don't happen.

>>51789919

Zak isn't exactly who I'd consider an ally, and I think the character in question is a not-so-subtle smear against the author of Monsterhearts.

>>51789930

OPP has nothing to do with this and quite a few of their folks are livid.

>>51789955
Yet threads still get deleted.

>>51789522

Way back in the day, men nWod 1e was just coming out, men and my friends sat down to play Werewolf the Forsaken, it was fun, and I was interested in the gameworld aftter flipping through the DMs books. I had also played Vampire the Masquerade (PC-game) before that, so I felt slightly familiar with the setting.

>>51789940

That you and everyone else has doubts over what a cunt ZakS is, is kind of pathetic. There is no fair shake with this retard, best speak up now and with your wallet unless you want more of your favorite games getting this kind of treatment in the future.

>>51789940
The character in question is a self-insert of one of his friends, see >>51789222

>>51789963
dohoho so it's #wodgate then

>>51789984

Lol sure, sure

>>51789963

It's back up now.

>>51789984

>ZakS friends with a tranny from a company he regularly lambasted with RPG Pundit

Sssuuuuuuurrrrrrreeeeee

>>51789990
It certainly sounds like it if you only look at SA.

>>51789963
I'm guessing OP're trying to figure out what the fuck to do and very carefully planning what to publicly say, given their devs are already deserting in droves after White Wolf's bullshit.

>>51789791

I'm 28, I'll probably be here until I die. I'm not a total loser honestlyyyy, I'm married even.

Does anyone have Tim Bradstreet Vampire Portfolio .pdf and would they be willing to share? I wanna see the stuff inside this before I order the actual book itself.

>>51789976
>doubts

I'm literally telling every single person I know to write and boycott White Wolf, but okay.

>>51790011

No one is deserting, even david hill is staying on until his contracts are up. He will probably quit after that.

>>51790014
Don't worry, you're in good company.

>>51790014
>not a total loser
>married
Suspicious

>>51789984
>>51790008
Not just any friend

>>51789994
>>51790008
I don't know either monsterhearts or RPG Pundit, I just link the the previous thread, could you explain ?

>>51790030

>dying alone and a virgin

Is that how you brcome an Archmage irl?

>>51789915
Fucking thinbloods.

>>51790037
someone erase this fucker from the timeline, we can't have people leaking the secrets of the imperial mysteries like this!

>>51790026
That sucks i don't get why they'd hire him his work doesn't even seem that great.

>>51790075
IDK you'd think 'killer trap' would be 4chan's thing. I still haven't played through the vampire one. But I did manage to end unchecked immigration in Sweden!

>>51790075

DavidH or ZakS?

>>51790075
woah woah Zack save it for Hill's twitter feed

>>51790032
damn it, don't get my fapbait material mixed up with RPG drama.

>>51790032
Line Trap should be in every WoD video game.

>>51790094
Davids a shit but his changling mechanics seem solid so if nothing but a decent framwork i give hill a pass. zak just seems like a bitch and he looks like a 40 year old who can't deal with the fact that he's aging.

>>51790091
>you'd think 'killer trap' would be 4chan's thing
I think the "kills anyone who voted Trump or opposes joint restrooms" is overriding the fetish aspects of it.

>>51789522
Started playing vtes around 2002. Dropped mtg for it.

>>51790030

Well, I am a loser, just not a total loser... I'm just a bit ashamed that I'm a perma-channer

>>51790201
>ashamed that I'm a perma-channer
Just unlearn shame. Its the only true way to live.

>>51790091

As a Swede I deeply thank you for making fantasy Sweden a better place.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?

For NWoD i started reading WtF, my first RPG.

For OWoD i got sick of how bland and shitty Awakening was and i gave Ascension a chance, never looked back.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?
One of my friends got me into LARPing now I love both oWoD and NWoD. But mostly oWoD and nWoD mage and nWoD changeling.

>>51790231
How is Ascension better?

>>51790286
>How is Ascension better?
Not that anon but Super Science pulp adventures mostly

>>51790300
So what makes it the better Mage game is the not magic parts?

>>51790231
Really? I liked masquerade but i hated assension. Awakening was better for what I wanted too bad about requiem. Though 2e probably has the best mechanics ive seen from a ww game it's setting just doesn't have enough.

>>51790352
The casting rules in OWoD are admittedly kinda a mess. But the types of mages they allow for are far less limited in scope.

>>51790372
How so? Really the only thing Awakening can't also do is the super science shit, and you could probably find a way to do it anyway.

>>51790427
The nature of all magic being supernal kinda ruins adding any flavor to it.

>>51790439
And yet the concensus is the stupidest fucking plot device.

>>51790201
>>51790216

The ride never ends, Anon. Quit feeling shame and enjoy the time you have. Life is not long enough.

>>51790464
I feel like it has some kind of Jung vibe to it, but to each his own.

>>51790464
I've heard this complaint dozens of times but I've never had it be a problem in a real game any more than 'vulgar' or 'covert' magic was in 1e nWoD mage.

>>51790439
Supernal Magic isn't the only kind of magic in CofD. It's just the only kind Awakened Mages use. And what's more, the exact nature of the Supernal is something up for debate. Mages can still have different views on it and can still have different ways of harnessing it. Mages are hardly all in agreement on the topic.

>>51790439
The same could really be said about the khaos magykk of oMage.

>>51790530
But the trappings around it allow you to utilize science, or biomechanics, or prayer as the way /you believe/ you are doing magic. What you believe has 0 meaning in how your magic works in nWoD, both mechanically and thematically.

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>>51789984
>>51790032
What kind of fresh magical hell is this

>>51790600
Its the dawn of the hour of #wodgate

>>51790563
Ah but the whole "magic is different for everybody, there's no real truth to it aside from reality bending" is also incredibly fucking shallow.

You can play a mad scientist, but it's not actually mad science. It's just you. There's no real discovery or innovation going on.

You can also play a priest, but your power doesn't come from a god. Just your delusions and how hard you wish they were real.

At least in Awakening there actually is something more behind magic, and true to real life people have different interpretations of it.

>>51790692
I want characters with cool unique seeming powers, even if its just the visual curtain over the top. Awakening doesn't offer that, even if 2e did a bit better with it with yantras, its still not really a custom flavor of powers and abilities. The customization just isn't there.

I found a pretty cool character sheet for Batman as a CoD Hunter. Is anyone interested in seeing it?

>>51790600
It's a trap.

>>51790754
If it has his gadgets written up as endowments yes. Otherwise, also probably still yes.

>>51790734
>Awakening doesn't offer that
Yes it does. Legacies are a thing, and you can come up with your own. You can also stylize your spells however you want, (make portals by slashing at the air and making tears, describe Death Fraying spells as frost, etc) bonus points if you do it in a way that complements your Nimbus and your character. You can also come up with your own spells via Creative Thaumaturgy.

>>51790734
While I personally disagree with you that Awakening cannot provide a unique seeming power, your choice is yours to make.

>>51790767
Here you go:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/349384-think-of-fictional-characters-and-say-what-they-would-be-in-cofd?p=920967#post920967

I'm guessing that user didn't write up the Bat Gadgets because they want to wait for Hunter 2ED.

>>51790825
>>51790840
Ultimately, even with legacies, every Mage in nWoD/CofD feels like a mage casting spells and there is no meaningful way to break away from that.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?

I had a goth friend in high school.

>>51790900
>You feel like a Mage casting spells in a game about being Mages casting spells, and there's no way to completely delude yourself into thinking you're instead building a rocketship out of tin cans and paper glue, because that's the way your mental delusion works
Shocker.

Ascension really shouldn't have been called "Mage" then.
More like "Perspectivists: The Surpassing"

>>51790900
Ah, that sheds a better light on your issue with nWod/CoD Mage line. Yes, it will always feel like a mage casting spells, as it is what the line is designed to feel like.
If Ascension offers a different feeling and has what you are looking for, then it's the better choice. And I wish you well.
But for me, I prefer the more streamlined mechanics and overall feeling Awakening provides. If I wanted to play a game where being a mage casting spells does not feel like a mage casting spells, I'd play Unknown Armies.

>>51790490

Yeah, that's what I'm slowly realizing as well.

>>51790900
First off the name of the game is "Mage" so feeling like a Mage can't really be held against it.

Second, you can roleplay as a priest or a science type if you want to, but again the game is MAGE ("A game of modern SORCERY") so don't be surprised that it prioritizes actual magic shit over mad scientists and clerics, although Ars Nova and religious Mages are discussed in the books.

>>51789522
>How did you get interested in World/Chronicles of Darkness?

My ex ran a Geist campaign that lasted three sessions and I've been in love since. I had heard about it before in reference of Unknown Armies.

>>51789919
Yeah, Zak Smith is not at all a SJW, is the thing. He's railed against that stuff.

>>51791101
Railed like when he gets railed by Bailey Jay?

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>>51791101
>this thing
>not SJW

>>51791101
Attacking individuals of a group doesn't make you not one of that group. Even if that group thinks doing that makes you a nazi.

>>51791120
That never happened and you know it.

>>51791134
That's a Yale graduate, sir.

>>51791180
>Yale graduate
We can clearly see the failings of the education system in that very picture.

I'm char genning a Mastigos and having a real hard time picking my praxis spell. I've got my rotes, which are mostly spells where I want a bunch of Reach to fuck around with effects, but can't figure out a spell for my schtick that exceptional sux on 3 would be good for.

Space 3, Mind 2, Fate 1 is arcana spread and my rotes mostly involve space trickery (Co-location, correspondence, Break Boundary, Scry) with one utility spell from the other two (Scan Thoughts, Serendipity). What would be a good praxis to get just in general?

>>51791173
Sure, buddy.

Wink wink

>>51791203
Take one from Fate if you can.

>>51791203
Something that brushes up against Withstand, or that you'll use a lot.
Mind Scan for example.

>>51791289
Thing is, I'll be casting with two dice there at the moment. Later, once the arcana is higher and raising gnosis it might be a good call but at the moment I think Space and maybe Mind are the only place I could even hope for three sux, even with as many dice stacked as I could

>>51791296
Maybe one of the space spells that lets you fuck with people's sympathetic connections? I was planning to get those later with exp as rotes for the extra casting dice but that might be a better call.

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>>51790692
>>51790563
>>51790439
The only thing that limits thematics in regards to nMage is the difference in concept.

In old Mage you could be a martial artist or a super scientist and that was your 'magic'. You were a willworker, defining reality as you saw fit, and your powers were integrated with that.

In new Mage, you're never a super scientist or a wuxia fighter, you're a scientist or martial artist who is also a Mage. For better or worse, the concepts were more integrated in Old Mage, so that you could have supernatural martial arts or magic-powered pseudoscience, whereas in new Mage you're more a Mage who happens to also use martial arts or be a scientist.

Which isn't to say you can't use your supernal magic to improve those abilities, but its always thematically a separate discipline. The Sons of Ether were super-scientists, they made impossible science. The Free Council is at best, creators of magitek.

TLDR: There's definitely room for customization and a wide variety of character concepts in Awakening, but the setting means that many concepts that were valid in Ascension no longer are, or have to be heavily modified.

>>51790841
Hey, that's pretty good. Most of is enemies would be Slashers, right?

I was reading something about VtR and there was one brief paragraph that spoke of ways to ghoul someone without even letting them realize what happened. I remember the Gangrel bit in particular, like how a Gangrel could open up wounds on their chosen victim, and on themselves, and then rub against each other. Could that actually work? Not looking to implement it or anything, it just seems like something with low chances of actually turning someone into your ghoul.

>>51791389
>Not spiking bloody mary's with vitae.

>>51791415

Yeah, it mentioned that, or biting your lip before kissing someone or even spitting your blood in someone's eye.

>>51791134
>weh weh people cut their hair and get piercings what is the world coming to? Margret tells me the frontman of this new band the Clash is the antichrist!

https://mega.nz/#!6UECwCja!dSoWooJLdYrj4R9LK7LaijgwKM0m5I8GPFN_J4OTjwY

How do I make the best combat Uratha? Optimize and cheese it as hard as I can? I have been challenged to a rather dumb Tomb of Horrors esque game with 'ball bustingly difficult enemies' according to the ST. Its not a serious game though, more a mechanical exercise meets black comedy. Or so he described it.

>>51791500
Hit too close to home?

>>51791567
I'm not an expert on Werewolf, but I know you should pick Rahu as your Auspice and invest into the Relentless Assault Fighting Style.

>>51791203
Drop the point in space stick it in Fate and grab Quantum flux and eventually grab exceptional luck. The ability to eliminate mundane dice penalties is too damn useful and the ability to apply dice tricks to yourself and your enemies is really damn good. You will use both often.

I'm not a fan of going early disciple. Mages defiantly start getting really scary at the disciple level but you can't really take full advantage of it at such a low Gnosis.

>>51791101

That's ridicolous. He REEKS of far leftism.

>>51791567

Stock up on silver bullets.

Is Robbie Rotten an Unchained? He is a Master Of Disguise, after all.

Now I'm trying to imagine Lazy Town in God-Machine terms.

>>51791500
Whine all you want but fucked up hair, excessive piercings, and excessive tattoos are usually good warning signs.

Throw in taking retarded selfies and you have a bunch of red flags.

>>51791794
Don't forget Robbie Rotten is the hero. That asshole Sportacus just came in and wrecked everyone's chill time and now he won't leave.

>>51791203
Also what are your merits?

>>51791863
In flux. Suggestions on it? I'm not looking to crank status so utility ones would be good.

>>51791817

Do we need red flags when we actually know what he's written, and how Chronicles is? It's extreme leftie town, all the way.

>>51791120
nothin' wrong with that...

>>51791543
I'm gonna keep linkin this pdf until whoever manages the main megabin finally adds it to it

>>51791759
There's more to the far left than social justice. Most so-called "SJWs" are attacked for among other things their attempts to set norms for society, like a norm against using female nudity in advertising or whatever.

Zak Smith is more on the "no rules!" side of things, and wants all the norms gone so there's more nudity all over the place, especially if it shocks the normies.

So do the Mage STs here permit their players to access the Condition Creation rules on page 289 for their Magic-generated Conditions?

I mostly ask, because RAW a simple Mind 2 spell can grant a Condition that be resolved for a +5 to an Arcanum-involved roll.

And that seems pretty ludicrous.
Rather than the simple +2/-2 it suggests for most other "mundane" conditions.

Is this Vampire VN really the way to get people interested in V:tM? I can't imagine anyone besides a few tumblristas browsing through the wiki, getting bored or disgusted and forgetting all about it

>>51791899
Hallow is always handy especially before you join a legacy. Imbued items with tactically important spells that are out of your current grasp. Familiars are great utility if your'e a Moros, Mastigos, or Thyrus. Shadow name/Cabal theme is a really strong yantra that you'll want to pick up eventually.

Don't count out mundane merits like resources or a fighting style you don't have to be a jack of all trades but it's a good idea to be adequate enough that when the GM inevitably screws you over you can survive.

>>51792047
I seriously doubt anything is going to change, all it's doing is getting Zack more attention. He may or may not be an awful person, but he has a huge pile of people ready to defend him and tell everyone else what a good person he is in the face of any and all criticism.

So, just like any other SJW, basically. They do something repugnant, but everyone buries it because they're on the right side of history.

Are you affected by you own nimbus tilt?

>>51792103
Probably not.
But they did it anyway.

Hurrah for pre-op transexuals talking about their dicks, how they fuck old men and how they Ghoul-ified their shrink who was totally in love with them.

This will certainly attract a new and fresh group of individuals keen for adventures as blood-drinking members of the undead.

>>51792163
Yes. Anyone who can see it will be affected. This is a double edged sword.

>>51792170
>Implying people who played V:tM weren't already deviants.

>>51792163
Not normally.

>>51792129
In addition to this Anon's advice, Mystery Cult (and/or MC Influence) is an excellent merit to go for. Not only does it have a net return on investment, but it provides story hooks and can help define your character.

Also familiars are great even if you're not one of those Paths.

Artifacts can be crazy fucking powerful at the 4-5 dot level.

A Sleepwalker retainer can also be an excellent investment. If you have a close bond, they can even hold spells for you so they don't count towards your spell control.

>>51792210

Vampires are trendy as fuck right now among normies. Look at all the tv shows and movies. So yeah they might get shocked by how stupid all of this is.

>>51792223
I'd always take MC influence over vanilla MC. It eliminates any downside to the merit and enforces the theme of "mages are the illuminati".

Is there a way to have Gauru on all the time without Death Raging?

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>>51792190
>yes
>>51792223
>no
I am Obsessed with this Mystery.

>>51792309

Play 1e.

>>51792378

What is in 1e that allows that?

>>51792401
My mistake, was thinking 2e had changed it so Gauru = Death Rage always on. Nope, can't stay in Gauru form indefinitely in 1e either.

But... why would you want to? You can't speak, you're subject to Rage, you basically can't think or engage in social situations, Gauru sucks for everything not combat.

>>51792140
All the SJW's I know who are into tabletop are calling Zak an abusive piece of shit who harasses transwomen. The trans character in his game is a cruel caricature of some game designer he hates.

>>51792493

I liked utilizing Crinos in non-combat situations sometimes when playing WtA, like lifting or doing heavy construction (both actually happened multiple times during one game) so I was hoping I could achieve similar in WtF.

Also because Crinos drum circles are hilarious to me and I want to see more of that.

>>51792536
The counter claim to that is its based on his friend, Bailey Jay.
Neither has too much validity to sway verdict one way or the other.

>>51792309
Yes, in 2nd edition. You can use the Father's Form Facet to remain in Gauru indefinitely, albeit iirc it's a risky approach if you end up actually getting embroiled in a fight.

>>51792536
Pretty sure what's being brought up is Zak S or someone he's close to (might have?) harassed someone who is transgendered, which inevitably gets twisted by SJWs to mean that the reason for the harassment was being transgender in the first place, even though that isn't likely given the circles Zak is in.

It's a pretty core part of the ideology that favoured minorities are only ever abused because of their identity rather than because of their behaviour or because the person giving out the abuse is just generally abusive.

>>51781497
>Take oWoD.
>Handwave the Time of Judgement ("Apocalypse was global warming", "Gehenna was just a gang war")
>Fast forward the setting to [current year].
>Add lots of PC pandering + edge.
>Now make it the basis for video games and a netflix series
>That's what One World of Darkness is supposed to be.

This is a joke, right?

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I wonder what Tau are going to get this event. Y'know, aside from purged, because the Imperium is about to becoming a lot fucking scarier with a Primarch at the helm.

>>51792860
Fuck, wrong general. Sorry lads.

>>51792860
>Tau
I don't think the Void Engineers travel all the way to 40k.

>>51791794
Robbie could also make a decent Gentry (though as >>51791827 pointed out, Sportacus and his regime of never-ending fitness and apple-eating sounds like one too) or even a particularly sad Promethean.
>>51792273
Maybe my ST sense is permanently stuck to ON but it seems like MC would be a great way to introduce other Mages, or even initially put a group together.

I forget, do Proximi have a greater chance of awakening than your run-of-the-mill dude? Because if so, that'd be a really neat set-up to a chronicle, with a Mystery Cult that Fated towards the characters and trying to unite them to fulfill a prophecy.

>>51792860
Guilliman is probably the sort who would be willing to tag team against a greater threat until that threat is gone at least. Maybe the Ciaphas Cain special of allying against the nids.

>>51792888

kek, implying 40k isn't the distant future of World of Darkness

>>51792860
>I wonder what Tau are going to get this event.
A face-full of rape from Threat Null. But seriously, they need something because they're totally overcharging the Imperium and not giving a lot to make it seem like the enemies have teeth.

>>51792905
Sounds like a better option than Exalted being its distant past.

>>51792860
Well since you're already here might as well answer your question.

>It's heavily implied that one of the crone swords is the dawn blade wielded by Commander Farsight
>Tau territories have been blockaded by the warp storm the Mechanicus set off after the Agrellan campaign that has now gone sentient and merged with neighbouring warp storms
>'nids still coming through

All in all, not good

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>>51792893
>>51791794
>>51791827

I always thought Robbie Rotten was the Spy from TF2

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>>51792920
Worst part about H:tR (which I liked a lot) and KoTE by far, even with all the racist 'ROUND EYE GO HOME!' that was dripping off of Kindred.

>>51792794
>This is a joke, right?
Nope. Global warming is the Wyrmtide so no final battle 4 u. Gehenna was now just a turf war revolving around still-dormant Antediluvians. The Avatar Storm may or may not happened and the Ascension War is pointless because human nature and consensus or something.

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>>51792988
They're too pussy to embrace the Millennialism that so girded the original run, that was part of the appeal for me, everything was varying levels of doomed from the sort of far off nature of the Ascension War, to the ITS HERE of Autumn and the Sixth Great Maelstrom. Backing down from that removes a lot of the impetus for the various factions as well.

Sad.

>>51791752
Eh i disagree if only because you do get 3 dice to your roll you are better off with rotes at start but that doesn't change the fact that disciple is a huge bang for your buck.

>>51793046

If any splat gets the shaft harder from this, its probably WtA. Its pathetically underwhelmung and shits on the main theme that drives WtA, you can sort of get away with avoiding or trying to ignore Gehenna in VtM, but the Apocalypse is the sole motivator for so much hardship, sacrifice and bad shit that happens in WtA.

Dracula could have just released a wet fart when asked about WtA and we would get the same amount of value from it as this.

>>51793167
For sure, though it basically rapes Hunter, Wraith/Orpheus and Demon as well. I mean, fuck, Demon outright states that they're portents of the End of Days.

>>51792988
>The Avatar Storm may or may not happened and the Ascension War is pointless because human nature and consensus or something.
This is retarded. Not the plot point, but your belief that M20 suggests this in any way.

M20 is fairly modular but it in no way says "the Ascension War is pointless".

Getting tired of all the oWoD faggots

>>51793183

>WW/Paradox/OPP could have set and released the ToJ to 2012

>the didnt start this back in '08-09 abd build hype for 2011-2012 transition

>>51793232

By all means continue to suck Awakened and DaveB's cock like you have been for weeks.

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>>51793201
>shilling for M20

Put your trip back on, Phil

>>51793232
Fuck off back to your teen drama "CofD"-drone.

Pretty embarrassing that you sad sacks were stripped of even being part of the World of Darkness.

People hated your shitty setting so much that they are going to pretend it never existed at all - hell, that's basically true, though. Everyone is familiar with WoD, no one but SJWs and furfags know anything about "CofD".

>>51793290
>Implying Phil is smart enough to post on the internet.
Remember the reddit ama where he was too stupid to figure out how it works to post?

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>>51793260
I loved the ToJ in general, I thought the Year of the Lotus was a steaming pile of shit, but even though I was sad Wraith was dead (and without the rest of the Guilds, you Monsters!) I was psyched that they'd be willing to take a bat to a lot of the setting in such a way. It also helped that I really liked the interplay of Wraith, Hunter, Demon and Vampire, which if taken together make a neat little Abrahamic Horror setting a la The Prophecy series.
>>51793290
>Me, upon recalling those characters again.
Please anon, SSRIs can only help so much.

>>51793307
Reddit has shit layout. Its 100%trash

>>51793303

>no one but SJWs and furfags know anything about "CofD"

That's right, keep those furries in CtL where they belong!

>>51792893
From what I recall Proximi have as much chance to awakening as anybody else. The orders still jealously guard and maintain proximi bloodlines because they're as close to a consistent way to produce sleep-walkers as anybody in the pentacle has yet discovered.

A player cabal meeting in a failed mystery-cult is a fine way to start a chronicle but it doesn't have to be the only way. Remember the Guardian's labyrinth already surveils most 'magical' mystery cults and is really damn good at picking up freshly awakened mages before they get into too much trouble.

>>51793290
I hate a lot about M20, all the SJW shit that infests it like a cancer, but it is a very good product, and besides which, I was making a point of fact about the metaplot. It's just objectively incorrect to characterize M20 as diluting the importance of the Ascension War in any way.

>>51793334
I thought that was WtA where they added every type of furry.

>>51793334
>333 Archetypes ruling us. 3 different true approaches to magick. 333 Rooms in the House of Renunciation.
Let's be real here accidental member of the Invisible Clergy, there are furries in M:tAw as well.
>>51793346
Ah, nuts, it doesn't necessarily jive with the idea of 'aspecting' the supernal with prophecy to jump-start awakenings.

>>51793361
>M20
>very good product

M20 is an abomination, and Brucato and Rich Thomas deserve to unceremoniously shot.

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>>51793361
>but it is a very good product
I was with you 'til there Anon.

I laugh at all the dumbasses that honestly believe oWoD is better than CofD

Stop kidding yourselves, kiddos.

>>51793372

Nope, CtL is the one that allows fursona style characters and is the one that jumps out at furries the most.

They want to be sparkly unique different special colorful outrageous beautiful beloved fuckable with a wild side and yet still 'tragic victims' who deserve sympathy as much as praise.

They look at WtA and WtF, see all yhe rules, the conservative religious aspects, the endless meatgrinder wars, and the extreme ultraviolemce and scurry away because it shits on what most of them want to be; celebrated for having a kink.

>>51790286

The paradigm and the fact that mages have beliefs in ascension sold it for me.

>>51793412
>>51793415
I like that it's very well formatted, has convenient hyperlinks all over, a dedicated section on tables and reference charts, and multiple options for dealing with metaplot issues. I also like most of the rule changes regarding magic.

What I don't like is the anti-white cuckery that suffuses nearly the whole book.

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>>51793434
It's about an even split,
Old Demon = New Demon
Wraith > Geist
Old Vampire > New Vampire
Old Mage < New Mage
Old Hunter < New Hunter
Old Wolf > New Wolf
Old Changeling > New Changeling.
Old Mummy < New Mummy.

>>51793458

Everyone knows that Blue is the superior color for mages!!

>>51790464

I never had any problem with consensual reality. I just define in which axis the game is set before we start and thats it.

>>51793474
Those are some shit opinions you have there m8.

>>51793474
>Old Changeling > New Changeling
Ahh, I see.

>>51793474

I honestly agree with this. Maybe transplant some of the decent ideas from nwod into their predecessors, if that.

>>51793474
>Old Mage < New Mage
Fucking retard.

>>51793438
I feel both do it in different ways but ive played WW with a furry and it sucked. You should keep fetishes out of the fucking game. I don't talk about dick every five minutes.

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>>51793474
>Old Changeling > New Changeling

>>51793509
He's right.

>>51790825
>make portals by slashing at the air and making tears, describe Death Fraying spells as frost, etc

Except the moment slashing the air or frost is inconvenient you just switch it without any kind of penalty.

I like that my ice mage frost thing with all the spells he cast because of his high resonance.

>>51793514

WtA appeals to the fringe group that are into being edgy, like guro and vore, and bestiality. The majority if furries tho want to be cute or sexy cartoon sparkledogs who are beloved and on the moral highground no matter how insane they come off as.

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>>51793449

Consensual reality is a shitshow for actually running a game and creating a consistent setting.

Despite numerous editions, M20 proves this point perfectly with sidebars like this.

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>>51793555
>>51793449

Also, sidebars like this.

>>51793503
>>51793518
Come-On-Now here, I liked the oWoD iteration chiefly because it had more grounding in mythology, rather than just random beings that are beasts or elements or whatever. I guess if I had to try and articulate a more specific reason it would be that I enjoyed tha structure of the first more than the second.
>>51793509
It seems less confused in what theme it wants. Old Mage had this terrible 'technology is bad and wrong' vibe to it that seemed completely out of place, imported seemingly wholesale from Apocalypse (where it made actual sense) and made the game come off as ham-fisted. It also had the problem of Consensus, where spell-usage would be bogged down over discussions as to whether a spell was vulgar or not.

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Man, either the vampires in We Eat Blood are max humanity while somehow able to slaughter their food and cops en-mass for no penalty, or the rules are different for thin bloods. They are utter fucking pussies for people who try and be hardcore. Every one of them, even the tattood borderline-Anarch, seems freaked out by the most minor of shit.

>Pic related would give them a heart attack.

I want to play a vampire now, please. Any time now.

>>51791134
You've never seen an honest to god goth in your life, have you?

>>51793583

If it doesn't sparkle, how can it be a vampire?

>>51793528
Idiot.
>>51793555
>>51793567
No, that's just bullshit. Consensus v. Vulgar is incredibly simple to determine in almost every case.
>>51793573
>Old Mage had this terrible 'technology is bad and wrong' vibe to it that seemed completely out of place
Not at all, actually. I mean two of the Traditions are fucking technomages.

What's "bad", and even then, only sometimes, and at varying degrees, is the establishment, corruption, and oppression.

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>>51793573
>I liked the oWoD iteration chiefly because it had more grounding in mythology, rather than just random beings that are beasts or elements or whatever. I guess if I had to try and articulate a more specific reason it would be that I enjoyed tha structure of the first more than the second.

Fuck just Changling, I like oWoD for this as a whole. I'm worried they are going to tear all this down for One World of Darkness, because everything has to be new age now or atheistic, and legend and myth is outdated and boring.

>>51793573
Ok, I actually agree in the sense that I really liked the more mythological aspects of oWoD.

However, I think the personal drama of nWoD is more fun to play with than Harvey.

>>51793607
Anon you like one of the most convoluted games in existance. Its okay.

>>51793620
>>51793620

BUT YOU GET TO BE THE MONSTER ANON! YOU EXPERIENCE THE HORROR.. UH... AS A HORROR MONSTER!!

>>51793361

Anon nobody cared about the ascension war since revised. You sound like those rednecks crying "the south will rise again"

>>51793624
Oh for sure, the themes of CtD were bleak as fuck as well, to the point where I would say that Wraith was brighter, because at least there you had the hope of Transcendence. Lost however is easier to set stories in.
>>51793620
Yeah, it's one of the things I didn't really understand (except for Mage, but for other reasons) about the switchover to nWoD.

>>51793651
Oh no, anon, other people enjoy things you don't. Maybe you're getting too old for this.

>>51793693

Are you defending cofd or One WoD? Because I was referring to the latter.

>>51793555

>>51793495

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See, this has shades of being genuinely interesting. Because of humanity being generally more scrutinizing post-9/11, does this mean the traditional set of Kindred society has shifted to even more underground?

Because it sounds like the thin bloods have grown massively, to the point they make up a decent percentage of any given local party population, and aren't exactly careful. If there were still Princes and traditional blood hunts, I don't see this being the case.

>>51793630
Deendeefags may think it's complicated but anyone with half a fucking brain can read the book and come away with a good understanding of the rules.

Honestly, you only ever roll Arete to cast magic, it's about as simple as you can imagine.
>>51793666
You are legitimately brain-damaged.

>>51793721

>implying the leeches wouldn't be the ones controlling the NSA

>>51793721
Let's be honest, there's so much in that game that'd be a Masquerade violation it's crazy. A decent Sheriff would be busy for fucking weeks with Blood Hunting all those stupid assholes.

>>51793607
>Consensus v. Vulgar is incredibly simple to determine in almost every case

23 years of arguments and ridiculous, convoluted sidebars beg to differ.

>'technology is bad and wrong'

No, not so much just "technology," rather science and machines as stifling spiritualism.

Mage was a late expression of leftist, anti-corporate, technology is soulless, new age, healing crystal, Gaia is dying, cyberpunk garbage from the 1990's (see also, Werewolf: The Apocalypse). This zeitgeist simply couldn't and didn't survive into the 20th Century, where environmentalism now needed to claim the mantle of science and technology like internet has been such a great communicator and social equalizer.

>>51793755

The only redeeming feature is if thinbloods are weak bitches you could Deus Vult with your true vampire neonates.

I COULD see a huge surge in thinbloods if the Sabbat ever got out of control with their packs of shovelheads.

>>51793749
No, the rukes are not clear its bad enough that you can get away with anything with an easy argument. Which detracts from the game as a whole. A player shouldn't be stopping the game like that but consensus gives him the tools. It's also not very balanced. I mean some people like that but its annoying to deal with.

>>51793474
>Old Vampire > New Vampire
I disagree vehemently. I honestly kind of dislike VtM, the fact Bloodlines is enjoyable is its only redeeming facet to me.

>>51793776
Idiot. Everything about your understanding of the game is warped beyond recognition from the actual rules or setting as it's written.

>>51793792
>No, the rukes are not clear its bad enough that you can get away with anything with an easy argument.
No, you really can't. It's extremely simple to arbitrate whether something is being cast as vulgar or coincidental. What makes it "complicated" is that people don't read the book (or play the game) and thus come up with ridiculous ideas of how it works that are clearly not legal by RAW.

95% of mageposters, either for, but especially against, have never so much as seen it in play, let alone actually run or played it themselves. They're just "theorycrafting" ideas guys who want to jerk each other over utter nonsense.

>>51793786
>thinbloods are weak bitches you could Deus Vult with your true vampire neonates.
I mean, that is in essence true and always has been. Sires and such will actually equip their spawn with the ability to fuck up most weak-ass leeches.
> if the Sabbat ever got out of control with their packs of shovelheads
I can't recall the precise book, but I remember that it was a rite of passage amongst newly-minted Sabbat to hunt down Shovel Heads who can't or won't get with the program.
>>51793812
May I ask for a bit more of an in-depth answer, i'm honestly curious?

>>51793776
>technology is soulless
>(see also, Werewolf: The Apocalypse)

Weaver spirits exist so technology isn't soulless. Checkmate, CofDrone.

>>51793855
>Weaver spirits
Weaver spirits are corrupt and evil
>Double Checkmate

>>51793865

No, just autistic.

>>51793749

Sorry anon but you are the one with brain damage here. I love ascension but the rules are a hot mess. I feel pity for any new gm trying to run that. However if one already have experience navigating through the bullshit it can be very rewarding to run.

And yes, since revised the ascension war is lost and nobody particularly care about it except shitheads like the rogue council.

>>51793882
>the ascension war is lost
Explicitly stated in M20 to not be the default assumption, nor was it ever actually true to begin with. It was just WW's attempt to scale down Mage into more "gritty, personal horror" like the autism of CofD.

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>>51793751

True, but I guess we might get a sub-faction that is Hunter based.

>>51793755

Image related, I think whatever this Beckoning might be, and the traditional vampire society having to go a little more low-key, might explain why these guys are running amok.

So far, I haven't even met anyone higher than a 14th Generation, unless this guy is.

>>51793882
>And yes, since revised the ascension war is lost and nobody particularly care about it except shitheads like the rogue council.
The only people who still care are clearly the ones winning. Good ol Nephandi.

What determines which Path a Demense is aspected to? What if a Thyrus and a Moros each contribute one soul stone?

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At what point does a OWoD Mage start to surpass the other night-folk/supernaturals?

Hoping for some advice, planning a crossover in little less than a week, and would like to know when to halt their progress for muh balance.

>>51793908

I wouldn't use mage at all, it meshes so poorly with everyone else's metaplot ontop of being a piece of shit mechanically.

>>51793908
Arete 3.

>>51793901
>So far, I haven't even met anyone higher than a 14th Generation, unless this guy is.

Haven't met anyone EVEN 14th generation, I mean. At least from what I understand. I suppose some of the redshirts could have been.

>>51793845
>Purportedly don't understand Ascension
>because I admittedly actually understand the rules and setting

Alrighty then...

I guess we shouldn't let dozens of game books over multiple editions cloud your one true vision of Ascension.

I'm not quite sure if your problem is autism, illiteracy and/or you're just a troll.

>>51793849
I'm not a huge fan of the looming apocalypse metaplot, let alone how in depth it could get. I'm also a much bigger fan of VtR where clan is an influence on how you vampire, but covenant exists to give you something to do with your unlife rather than the clan being all, then you sign on to the Man or the rebels or the Sabbat as a an extra thought.

The best part of how I felt Bloodlines handled the metaplot lore was in carefully doling it out and not ever getting annoyingly long winded even though we know full well it could have taken up a lot more space if they wanted.

That's all just me, some people who really like the plot obviously would find the lack of a very clear or in depth meta in VtR equally a turn off.

What's going on with that new Vn? There's some controversy or something and it's reflecting on Opp?

Can someone give me the quick and dirty

>>51793938

Is the PC also a thinblood?

>>51793855

The Weaver is choking Gaia and is an antagonist.

Yes, in oWOD, most of science and modern technology is portrayed as "soulless" as the term in commonly understood, particularly within the context of the new age spiritualism and environmental movements of the 1990's.

>>51793903
Sum total of all Soul Stones imbued into it.

>>51793972
They hired a guy who's run people out of the industry with a horde of harassing followers. Opp doesn't like it, and it's hordes of sjw fans don't either.

>>51793972
One of the writers, Zak S, is a weird dipshit who has fans who send people death threats for not agreeing with an aging 2edgy4u artist with a side cut. David Hill, one of the writers for OPP, has basically flat out quit because people started stalking his fucking kids because he had a spat with Zak S.

>>51793751
>leeches controlling the NSA

That's only what the Seers of the Throne want you to believe.

>>51794013
So it'd be a Stygian AND Primal Wild demense?

>>51793900
M20 is metaplot agnostic so its a "choose your own setting" kinda deal.

But unless you ignore revised, yes the ascension war was lost.

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Would you let someone take Allies (Internet Trolls) 5 and use it much like any other Allies 5 merit, canceling someone else's 5 dots of social merits?

>the director of Task Force: VALKYRIE loses his Status 5 for a session because someone called him a cuck on Twitter
>"He lets other dudes bang his wife? Fuck this shit, I'm going AWOL."

>the rich vampire prince of New York loses his Resources 5 for a session because someone photoshopped the Just Fuck My Shit Up haircut onto someone
>his bank accounts get frozen
>the credit card companies lock his card
>the money under his coffin disappears

>>51793167
Does werewolf work without apocalypse at all?

>>51794054

No, no it does not.

>>51793973

Yeah. The Sire is some anti-Cainite-lore cultist who thinks the Bible was for vampires, and the first vampire was God, and he's basically started what is implied to be a massive and growing movement of thin blood cult who are pretty much 'fuck the traditions, do whatever the fuck you want'. If they aren't put in their places they are going to make the Masquerade crumble to dust, if it hasn't already.

>>51794043
I'd approve both of those as a story teller.

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>>51793908
>muh balance

Why do people feel then need to water down Mage so much? It's not like equality is a realistic concept by any means. It makes absolutely no sense for a vampire to stand on even terms with a wizard, it just doesn't.

I prefer realism in my games. Not some pseudo SJW day-dreaming.

Eqaulity doesn't exist. Deal with it.

>>51794076

So how are they all not dead? Either by Camarilla or Sabbat hands.

Also that sounds lame as fuck, making your first introductory game protag be a bitch nigga thinblood instead of a real fucking vampire.

>>51794100
>realism

>>51794054

You mean without the impending apocalypse? Sure. Not without the war though, the wyrm is the zombies in the walking dead, the catalist that forces the not asshole tribes to cooperate in "friendly" terms with the asshole tribes and if they try to change them be forced to use other methods besides killing them all.

>>51794035
>But unless you ignore revised,
Which is the default assumption in M20, as Revised rules and plot are completely optional, and by the reckoning of the way most factions are described, completely ignored in the construction of the game.

>>51794043
Those both sound so retarded I don't think you know how the real world works.

>>51794100

Better stop playing games then cause they an't realistic
Go live life, faggo.

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>>51794100
>tfw a nerd gets so mad about balance in a game in which you play sad vampires he goes full Nazi

lol shut up faggot

>>51794122
It's realistic to assume that a vampire is not an equal combatant compared to a wizard.

There's a point where people lose common sense to bias.

>>51794127

Nope, wrong. It falls apart without thr Apocalypse looming large over the Garou.

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>>51794134

But this is not the real world. This is a world where Allies (Internet Trolls) 5 is a real merit.

>>51794137
>>51794145
Such angst, Vampfags

>>51794146
>Well you see, in my headcannon, wizards are just stronger. Sorry. It doesn't make sense for things to not go by my headcannon.

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>>51789522
Sup /tg/, amidst all of this VN bullshit, here's another saucy little Legacy added to the pile for MtAw 2e.

The Chior of Hashmallim.
Those rockin' Obrimos dudes who summon their fucking Angel-Soul to waste Gulmoths with eye-lasers. I also added the ability summon their own flaming swords, and see the Abyssal taint in people as well. Because they needed to be a bit more distinct.
Sure it doesn't really fit in the magic system for 2e, but who fucking cares.
Eye lasers, angels, flaming swords, kinetic/gravitiy master.
It's good shit.
If pretty heavy on the ol' Mana tank.

p.s.
Beacuse people complained, I put the requisite Path/Order bit at the front of all the Legacies. But that doesn't really matter because so long as you take the first Attainment's emulated spell as a praxis you can join anyway, so long as you can find a mentor.

So don't expect a Free Council Moros to be able to join the Thrice-Great.

>>51794028
Yes.

>>51794146

Dracula himself was a magic abd wutchcradt practicioner trained by the devil himself, if we are going by Bram Stoker's cornerstone involvement in their current identity.

>>51794021
Here's hoping Zak S sticks around long enough to chase out all the communists and then gets fired. Best of both worlds.

>>51794134
>Those both sound so retarded

The Anon was questioning the merit use, not agreeing with it.

I would note that the ridiculous use of the merits was in Beast: Conquering Heroes, and thus one should simply expect stupidity and lack verisimilitude.

#NotAllMerits

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>>51794177

>tfw when headcanon is actually true

>>51794184

Dracula loves him, so I'm afraid your masturbatory fantasy isn't going to come true.

>>51794184
He's an anarchist which is much stupider.

>>51794215

Sure, lets go ask a vampire and mage who is stronger.

Oh wait, THEY DON'T FUCKING EXIST!

>>51794184
But anon, Zak is the communist/leftist. People just don't like him because of his shitty on-line behavior, his politics aren't that different from the others.

>>51794179

Not all of the 10 apprentices were vampires, and Dracula wasn't the star pupil that the Devil chose as his herald of hell. It makes you wonder who the other 9 sorcerers were.

Back on topic, in a fight between Merlin and Dracula, I bet all my money on the old bearded man.

>>51794215
>tfw your point of view doesn't matter, some dude just wants all of his players to have fun, not magewank

>>51794237
>THEY DON'T FUCKING EXIST!

What a lovely cop-out there, buddy faggot.

>>51794242

>comparing power levels from literary characters where the writers in question can always make shit up

Sounds retarded desu are you sure you don't have a mental disability anon?

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>>51794113
>Also that sounds lame as fuck, making your first introductory game protag be a bitch nigga thinblood instead of a real fucking vampire.

This disappointed me too, but my theory is that thin bloods have become too prolific to properly purge without a crusade that would destroy the Masqurade anyway and that this is going to be a major part of the meta plot going forwards. A World of Darkness take on the millennial left versus the conservative older generations.

>So how are they all not dead? Either by Camarilla or Sabbat hands.

I might have talked to a few 14th gen normie vampires, but there have been no mentions of the Prince of the city or judge. It's implied that most of the 'proper' vampires are all being drawn somewhere, and leaving underlings in charge, at the time of the game.

Right now I'm stuck in a cycle of death involving a Tremere trap-house and an actual vampire (I think) hunting me, and can't seem to advance. It's starting to piss me off, and I feel nothing like a vampire, even for a text adventure.

>>51794239
I'm aware, but if a good chunk of the cancerous left faction leaves in a huff because of him, and then he's given the boot because of causing said people to leave, there's an opportunity for people who have had a job or aren't covered in tattoos and sidecuts to take the reins. I don't want him to stick around either.

>>51794266

I thought we were discussing Bram Stoker's Dracula and the folklore surrounding it?

>>51794262

I'm not your faggot, friend!

>>51794282

You can't deny that its not misleading, especially for anyone that came in off of Bloodlines.

>>51794289

I'm not your friend, whore.

>>51794100
If one character is doing all the work thats not fun for a group. You can have magez and other supernaturals together hell you can even make the mage an archmaater but they all have to work together and have some importance.

>>51794184

>Zak, Rich Thomas and Dracula all kill one another in bizarre violent autoerotic menage a trois
>Best thing that could ever happen to WW games

Is there torrent for the VNs yet?

>>51794147

What do you understand by "looming apocalypse"? because you can play werewolf both in the dark ages and wild west.

You mean knowing that around x date the world ends? Or that certain signs point out to it?

>>51794282

>A World of Darkness take on the millennial left versus the conservative older generations.

But Anarchs already exist....

>>51794283
>an opportunity for people who have had a job or aren't covered in tattoos and sidecuts

A few less angry transexuals also probably couldn't hurt

>>51794100

Plenty seem to hate the fact that normie humans are stronger than the actual monsters.

Not that mages aren't monsters.

>>51794282
>alright, fuck it. You die. Which sucks because this is a parquet floor which they tell me is hell to get blood out of.
>Kind of a bad murder-orgy house then isn't it?
>you're such an exhausting little fuckwad

This looks AMAZING. What is it?

>>51794346
Mages aren't monsters.

>>51794346
>normie humans are stronger than the actual monsters

In 2e, the muggles, Hunter or otherwise, certainly pose no threat to major supernaturals, particularly the big three.

>>51794334
Wild west actually had a near-apocalypse with the Storm-eater. And Eater-of-souls before that almost kicked off the apocalypse too.

>>51794385
I'm referring to the Awakened.

I'm also talking oWoD here, not the inferior CofD you like to jerk off to.

>>51794131

Yes m20 is choose your own setting, but the ascension war being lost did happen in revised no matter what this anon said

>>51793900
>nor was it ever actually true to begin with. It was just WW's attempt to scale down Mage into more "gritty, personal horror" like the autism of CofD.

>>51794334

The latter and the crushing, impending sense that its nigh. Garou are drowning in it. There is no debate, no writing it off as shadowplay or myth by their elders like in VtM. It stares them right in the face and tells them 'Soon'.

Its also possibly the sole motivator that could make the Garou fet their shit together by the 11th hour, mend their fractured tribes, seek forgiveness and solidarity in the other changing breeds.

If you remove the Apocalypse you just end up with a bunch of angry super cunts who have no reason not to slaughtet each other, humanity, and everything inbetween. You might as well play Forsaken if you don't want the apocalyptic themes.

>>51794367
>Mages aren't monsters

Mages are the very worst kind of monsters.

Obsessive humans with absolute power over reality itself and no limits or boundaries.

>>51794341
Why are there so many transsexuals in 'geek culture' anyway? When there's surveys done it's not uncommon that they end up at 200-300% of their share of the general population, even taking a highball figure for it.

>>51794398
I have played wta games in which the apocalypse was given no importance. The war agaisnt the wyrm was still there and so was the bsd but there was no looming event about to happen.

>>51794425

Lonely faggots want the attention that they perceive women get and to feel 'pretty' though they aren't even for a man.

>>51794425
There aren't.
They're just really fucking loud.

>>51794425
All of the party trans people I know don't call themselves trans, or identify that way, and are too busy doing lines and running around with latinas to fill out surveys

>>51794335

Anarchs still support the theory behind keeping the Masquerade, just not the Camarilla and the pyramid scheme. I haven't heard Masquerade even mention, that I noticed, so far. A lot of these thin bloods just seem to be of the 'fuckin watch the world burn and drink anything and anyone I fucking please' variety with no sense of larger scale, others (like the PC) are more 'fuck the police' and closer to Anarchs, but still kill and turn random people with little regard for discovery.

>>51794298

No, I was nearly put off myself, but I'm bearing with it to try and get any hints of the new direction and meta plot.

>Camarilla seems to have become linked Cabals.
>Due to NSA keeping tighter watch on the population, it's hard to be a vampire.
>This has given the Tremere yet more power, as they can magically 'mask' Chantries and bases from mortal eyes.
>Something called the Beckoning is calling older (not specified if by age or generation, or how old/low) vampires East.

Just a few things I've picked up that might be interesting once expanded on.

>>51794454

You doing it wrong then.

>>51794425

My pop psychology explanation is that ttrpgs and LARPS allow a form of acceptable immersive escapism that caters to and supports alternative lifestyles, misfits and those who otherwise are socially akward or ostracized. It's cheap therapy and acceptance for the otherwise socially unacceptable (see also, rpg.net).

You often see this same phenomenon with many sci-fi cosplayers and furries.

>>51793908
Just don't allow Mages at all. Gimping them for balance is way more unfair.

>>51794497
I would argue that not including them at all is even crueler.

>>51794457
This is the correct answer. Even by the most generous measurements the LGBT community is roughly 3% of the general human population. Asians make up roughly 5% of the US population to give you a sense of scale.

>>51794464

Hunters should be having a field day. Easiest leeches they ever bagged.

Screeching NSA for why the Camarilla is falling apart is kind of retarded though.

>>51794399

In both oWOD and CofD, the muggles are no threat to any major template supernatural being.

>>51794464

>swedecuck is going to half-ass a meta event whete ALL THE ELDERS EVER DIED (off screen even!) and the remaining Cammies will be alt-right strawmen for thinfags to bash with their righteousness

YOU KNOW ITS COMING

Mage was a mistake

>>51794537
One on one this is true. But large scale warfare will end badly for most supernatural communities. Hence the secret societies.

>>51794425
There aren't a lot of transsexuals, period. They just tend to stand out more.

Usually because they can't stop telling everybody about how trans they are.

>>51794492

>It's cheap therapy and acceptance for the otherwise socially unacceptable (see also, rpg.net).

Like you or 4chan is any different, lol

>>51794516
>Even by the most generous measurements the LGBT community is roughly 3% of the general human population. Asians make up roughly 5% of the US population to give you a sense of scale.

But people generally like Asians a whole lot more than cantankerous transexuals. It more than a numbers game.

In fact, in many SJW circles, Asians are effectively considered "white." (See, e.g., affirmative action issues in higher education in California).

>>51794414
>The latter and the crushing, impending sense that its nigh. Garou are drowning in it. There is no debate, no writing it off as shadowplay or myth by their elders like in VtM. It stares them right in the face and tells them 'Soon'.

Ok, yes the game cant function with the apocalypse as myth. The garou do know that if they dont beat the wyrm the world is fuck no discussion there. However the game can function without any looming event about to happen.

>>51794414
>Its also possibly the sole motivator that could make the Garou fet their shit together by the 11th hour, mend their fractured tribes, seek forgiveness and solidarity in the other changing breeds.

I disagree there, you can make the other werewolves to work together without an apocalyptic event. Its gonna take work, diplomacy and compromise morals but it can be a way to play the game and be rewarding.

One game i ran the players organize and negotiate with 3 septs to create a new caern. There was no looming event, nor signs of any apocalypse. Just a pack with a goal that navigated the politics of the garou nation.

>>51794537
Thought the whole point of the Masquerade was that vampires are terrified of the muggles banding against them with pyrotechnic weapons.

>>51794282
The problem here is that the conservative older gents didn't write the Traditions because they felt like it; they are literally from Caine, who's a real fucking character, and all this shit they're doing is bringing Gehenna closer

>>51794580
>Like you or 4chan is any different, lol

Don't stop. I love it when people prove my point.

>>51794598

>I disagree there, you can make the other werewolves to work together without an apocalyptic event.

You have thousands upon thousands of years saying otherwise. They are assholes to the core.

>>51794591
Asians flip between white and colored based on what's most convenient at the time.

>>51794637

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself, anon.

>>51794591
Sure. But my point is Asians are a race where LGBT are an orientation which is spread across all races. Perhaps a better analogy would be a native spanish speaker of Chinese descent.

LGBT are way more uncommon than pop-culture would lead you to believe.

>>51794603
>whole point of the Masquerade was that vampires are terrified of the muggles banding against them with pyrotechnic weapons

Nevertheless, the actual rules and splat power levels render the Masquerade little more than a convenient plot contrivance to make the setting seem more analogous to the real world (percentages of Goths notwithstanding).

>>51794682
pop culture tends to be in large cities where most gay people move too. Most tend not to stay in rural locations and go where people are condensed. City people just don't give a shit.

>>51794690
So you're saying that if humanity wanted to purge vampires, they couldn't do it?

>>51794457
>>51794516
I know they're prone to attention seeking, but that's why I brought up demographic surveys. If you just had to guess the percentage of a geeky hobby or industry you'd probably overestimate the transsexual population because of that, but you can also look at the data and find that in a fair few cases they really are more common than you'd expect. It's not uncommon in programming to find the percentage being 2-2.5% for example.

>>51794492
Possible. There's also the question which you can't ask around the kind of shouty and combatitive transsexuals without getting yelled at, which is that the kind of person who has really geeky interests and the personality type more common amongst geeks would probably have had a more comfortable time as a woman, or at least thinks so ("I wish to be the little girl".) For legitimacy reasons their own community wants to portray it as something set at birth in the same way as the gay community does, although in the latter case it's almost certainly false, as we can see from the heritability of homosexuality existing but being very limited. See: identical twins and homosexuality research.

Perhaps as more research as done on transsexualism it might end up being obvious to anyone that looks at the data that it's not set at birth, although in both cases that doesn't mean it's typically a conscious choice either.

>>51794638
>Werewolves are assholes to the core

And nobody, and I mean nobody, likes furry, rage-filled assholes.

>>51794730

Or knots

Why do people get so buttflustered about the political leanings of WW/OPP writers and freelancers?

WoD has been Goth/niche-subculture bait since its inception and those groups have always leaned left socially, and the writers have written red meat for those demographics since the 90's.

I know people here instinctively lash out at "leftists and SJWs" but try not be fucking revisionists and act all offended that the writers are "forcing their messages" in WoD/CofD like its a new thing

>>51794724

They most certainly could! It only took 5 dots in two Spheres to take down an Antediluvian.

>Technocratic Union Supremacy

>>51794776
That was expected back then, BUT IT'S 2017!

>>51794639

Minority usually means Black, Mexican, Female, or Native-Armercian in the sciences.

Which sucks if you're an asian guy like me since we don't count as being a minority because occasionally we have suffer the downsides of being a minority but not the benefits.

We have a secret club at school called "Minority Medicine" It's essentially a networking/support group/unsanctioned fraternity for asian guys getting their MD, DMD, PharmD, or PhD .

.

>>51794776
The problem is useless sidebars telling you that "xir is okay" and what not, when you have oWoD using words like twinks casually

>>51794359

We Eat Blood and Our Friends Are Dead. And the Mage equivalent I haven't started yet. It's a hit and miss choose-your-own adventure in the One World of Darkness. The first, in fact.

>>51794603
I'd believe it, if the vampires didn't already own or have their claws in most institutions capable of bringing those pyrotechnic weapons to bear, and if they didn't have powers that would make them nightmares to fight. The best possible outcome of an all out war against vampires or any other major supernatural is paranoia, factionalism and ultimately mutual destruction or diminishment.

>>51794724
>So you're saying that if humanity wanted to purge vampires, they couldn't do it?

Probably not, at least not without an ugly mutually assured destruction scenario, in either classic WOD or CofD.

If you then consider that other major supernatural races like werewolves and, heaven forbid, mages (or archmages!), might react very badly to attempted undead genocide in the likely accurate belief they could be next, the odds for the muggles goes down considerably.

>>51794840
>might react very badly to attempted undead genocide in the likely accurate belief they could be next,
Mages sure, but werewolves hate leeches

>>51794867
>http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/general/off-topic/1050412-white-wolf-hires-zak-smith-im-out/page4
Huh so its not about his politics its about the fact that he's a scumbag.

>>51794867
It wouldn't be hard for mages (as a united whole) to eradicate Kindred society.

Werewolves aren't really that strong.

Recruiting for a Mage the Ascension game (details here: >>51784641), add me on Discord if you're interested: Vigne#6193

File: 1433781505232.jpg (117KB, 444x677px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 444x677px

>>51794728
My own opinion on tranns acceptance in geek hobbies is that it isn't always acceptance. I think it has more to do with that geek social fallacy, "Ostracizers are Evil".

Like you may not like that obnoxious loud mouth tranny but you better keep your opinions to yourself because if you call them out you're basically Hitler. This leads to the general two-facedness you see in larger geek social circles.

>>51794610

I agree completely, which is why even if they play all this shit straight, I'm going to be able to enjoy whatever shit they pump out by being the most hardcore traditionalist Cammy fuck ever. They can write what they want, but the original WW stuff takes precedence for me.

>>51794776
I mind it when they outright abuse or defame the people they deem problematic. I mean, yeah sure, the old White Wolf books were preachy, but none of this shit ever bled into real life.

>>51794914
>Suffering an obnoxious, loud-mouthed person in your game regardless of if they're a tranny or not
Jesus dude, just kick them to the curb, the game will be better for it.

>>51794802
>Which sucks if you're an asian guy

I have a number of Asian acquaintances and colleagues who adamantly agree.

Also, try being a Jew. We're a tiny religious and ethnic minority (with many Jews who aren't even remotely caucasian), have even faced a widescale attempted genocide by lilly-white Europeans within living memory, and yet to many in the SJW movements, we're often the worst kind of "whites." We have the unmitigated audacity to happily and peacefully assimilate in western cultures, particularly the dreaded USA, and to add insult to injury, succeed in most environments and professional endeavors, generally without any government assistance. This is apparently intolerable.

>>51794638

Yup they are but thats why pcs are pcs. They are meant to go against the system and try to change it. They probably wont change garou society overnight nor easily but it can be done

>>51794968

>>51794776

I think part of the issue is that those subcultures are practically right wing compared to some of the 'I identify as a Helicopter' fringes we have now. That said, kek, I remember that sidebar.

I think the fear is that it will ONLY be used for an agenda, with no other representation. For all it's sins, oWoD always gave all sides a shake at the die. You could play a well-dressed conservative as straight as a punk Anarch or BDSM fetishist fishMalk. All in the same room. In fact, that was where some of the fun came from. Part of the hate for SJWs is that they shut down and shun anything that triggers them, and everything fucking triggers them. Speaking generally of course. I may never have met one, but there must be rational people left on the Left.