/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKXfCvqCfmY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ooC_7rHLDU

Oh shit, they're finally doing it.

Hello? Yes? I'm here for the political discussion and Crinos knots, am I in the right place?

>>51755608
>You regain some willpower and a Condition if appropriate.

A condition like inspired just like normal action or you can inflict a tilt like if you were doing a called shot?

>>51755680
>mage awakening 2ed
can you use your dedicated tool and your own soulstone to double the paradox reduction?

>Zak Smith wrote a Vampire video game

Wow, really? Like, is it actually Zak S. writing "We Eat Blood and All Our Friends are Dead?" White Wolf isn't Onyx Path, but I figured that they're close enough to them that his mild beef with OPP would be a deal breaker.

>>51755692
Sure. But that also mean carving a chunk out of your own soul. Better to invest the points in the Demesne merit.

>>51753358
Weaver-chan is smart. SMART! And cute. CUTE!

>>51755670
Up to your storyteller.

>>51755708
Dunno how much he wrote, but based on the steam store page, he definitely did some of the background art.

I need examples of how effectively a mage can use preptime. I've heard a lot of people say they're very good at it, but I can't think of anything REALLY impressive.

>>51755811
Batman

>>51755761

Huh. Weird.

I'd buy them and play them for the thread but 10 dollars, even for two text adventutes, is a bit pricy compared to the other games Asmodee also has. Mobile's the same price if not a little more, 4.99 for each, and apparently Vampire's Prelude is super broken on mobile, at least for Android.

I'll check it out after I hear some word of mouth or a sale or some updates or something.

>>51755654
Pure shit

>>51755811
Give me a scenario.

>>51755713
From a pragmatist pov it's worth it. you're never going to get to gnoise 10 or even 5 in any reasonable amount of time. Also you need soul stones to make demesne. so soulstone now demesne later

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>>51755654

>>51755978
Valid point. But the soul stone for the demesne merit doesn't have to be yours. A soul stone of an unknown mage has potential for some juicy arcane secrets.

>>51754297
No worries - figured I might as well do something constructive while procrastinating!

>>51754413
Of course - as ever, take the bits you want or need and dump the rest. True of all gaming material.

https://youtu.be/wSp9e2kyprc

Guys, I think I want to go to this, even if I have no clue how to Nordic LARP. Really wanna get in on that V5 playtest.

>>51755811
>I need examples of how effectively a mage can use preptime.

First, without a need for instant casting, they can use rituals and better allocate or use available Reach. Also, increasing ritual time provides spellcasting bonuses that don't count toward Gnosis Yantra limits. Similarly, the mage has time to actually utilize the all the highest rated Yantras he can muster. He can also seek assistance from other mages to further empower any spells.

If the mage has Space, he can also choose to attempt to attack his target without ever leaving the protection of his sanctum.

Paradox and mana can also be better managed as a resource, including healing from containing Paradox or related conditions.

Prep time additionally allows a mage to more efficiently tailor his spells. He would not need do things like overcompensate to overcome an unknown withstand rating. He could also pick and choose the particular spells he wishes to employ for maximum effect without the constraints of combat or surprise.

>>51756057

Chris,

If you're not bound by a NDA, could you provide some hints about the next Werewolf release. The line seems to have gone dark after the release of The Pack.

>>51756042

What the fuck is this shit?

>>51756137
I'm afraid I don't have any information I can provide at this time.

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>>51756157
New vidya.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/565410

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>>51756191

Delete this.

>>51756176

Can you at least confirm that there is another Werewolf supplement in active production?

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>>51756191
>>51756042
>Vampire: The Masquerade: We Eat Blood And All Our Friends Are Dead is a chilling story written and illustrated by award- winning authors Zak Smith and Sarah Horrocks.

>Told entirely from a mobile messaging perspective, We Eat Blood is a sharp, mature and often terrifying story about your first nights as unwilling predator and prey. Hunted by unknown enemies and driven by an alien hunger, will you sever your ties with the mortal world or try to cling to your former life? Will you join ancient conspiracies, or turn the tables on forces older than the written word? Terrible power lies within your grasp, but there is always a price to pay.

>Set in modern-day Sweden, Mage: The Ascension: Refuge by critically-acclaimed author Karin Tidbeck, lets you experience today's social and political upheavals while awakening to the power of True Magick - the ability to shape reality itself through your force of belief. Many will try to recruit you into a secret war where human consensus itself is the battlefield. Your actions and choices will have profound consequences on the world and people around you... assuming madness and paradox doesn't claim you first.

Sasuga, White Wolf

>>51756056
But then you'd have to go through the trouble of either A) stealing someone else's soulstone, or B) getting them to give it to you. Plus the stand point of either having a desne or having a soulstone. You have to lock in the soulstone.

SImply for mobility and versatility having the soul stone wins out. PLus the flavor of having a (not)phylactery like the sonic screwdriver or the or the wizard wand.

at the bare minimum casting mechanics, Dedicated Tool + Soulstone = +2 casting and -4 paradox. That opens up so many reach options and a small but constant dice pool buff. Its like Gandalf using his sword and staff and wrecking shop.

Also adds the story drama of losing your tools. and getting them back. Plus destruction is fucking annoying but the lost soul comes back and you can make another one.

Despite it being a wisdom ding. and also because it is a wisdom ding, I really like the mechanic. soulstones are great.

Anyone know how changeling the lost 2e is shaping up? Been out of the loop for quite a while so haven't been keeping up with development.

>>51756267
Will I get raped in the Mage one?
>inb4 back to >>>/pol/

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>>51756042
>>51756191
>Sweden: The Refuge
>Fanfiction.net-Tier writing

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>>51756297
>Eberyone who dont like my SocJus-Cancer must be /pol/

It begins.

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This Bound walks up behind you and slaps your PC on the ass

What do you do?

>>51756231
I genuinely have no info I can give out re Werewolf at the moment, I'm afraid.

I'm not currently working on any OP products, myself, but I do have some potential stuff lined up in the future; we'll see if and when those come about.

>>51756042
>>51756191
This is shit

And I bet the trans its not even a hot one

>>51756277
Power allocation has shifted and there are some thematic changes. Not BeastBad but I reserve my review until I get to play in a game

>>51756267
>Set in modern-day Sweden
> lets you experience today's social and political upheavals

There are niggers everywhere and no hot viking chicks?

>>51756418
that's modern Sweden for you. In this, it is remarkably realistic

>>51756398
At least in the Mage game, you can side against the Traditions (which include a shady Ecstatic, a Verbena hippie and some random refugee Batini) to join the Technocratic Union in returning order and stability back to Sweden by establishing upper limits for immigration

>>51756406
>Not BeastBad

Implying that it may be somewhat bad. From what we've seen in the previews what did they all change?

>>51756512
Wait really?

>>51756594
Yup. Was surprised myself that this was possible. The character starts relatively blue pilled, but over the course of the game, she can learn through her contact with the masses of refugees that perhaps blindly taking in refugees without regard for the stability of her country is a bad thing. There are, of course, quips against the Sweden Democrats (the local right-wing party), but overall, it is pretty tame compared to some of the shit OPP has produced

>>51756521
Some Anons don't like the seeming and kith being different. One is what you were made into the other is how you escaped. I don't find this a problem it's just a power allocation. Some Anons don't like the new Huntsman. Because it allows characters to betray each other, or fight off a challenge. I don't have a problem with this one either, it just makes it more backstabby

Some ANons don't like that you have to build courts. Although I think this one can be redeemed by handing back the season courts from 1ed. Some Anons don't like the new hedge. I think silent hill hedge is fine.

Most of these I don't see a huge problem with but I want to see the final product to see how it works out. If anything a power boost and re balance to 1ed contracts would be great

>>51756042

>The known trans-outing stalker weirdo gets hired to write a scene like this

White Wolf's truly back, baby.

>>51756660
aaah, got it. That all sounds find to be honest (though the courts thing seems weird, will have to look that up). Was worried since I saw a few anons in past threads bitch about how the ruined changeling. But I also agree, no one will know for certain till we have the full things.

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>>51756042
>>51756191

>>51756512

>Introduce the Technocracy
>Their plan for Sweden is immigration control

Like I get that that's probably pleasing to certain people at different parts of the political spectrum for pretty different reasons and it'll make them happy but man that's...I don't know, I don't like my Technocracy to be super cartoonish or anything but something about this feels too smalltime for a Technocrat plot.

>>51756277
There's also a lot of the rules already available for playtest, so if you've got the time, you can read everything for yourself.

>>51756828
>Like I get that that's probably pleasing to certain people at different parts of the political spectrum for pretty different reasons

No its super silly. You have to understand the current Swedish (and since Trump American) mentality of calling everyone who isn't pro-uncontrolled immigration a nazi. You are trying to see this through the eyes of a reasonable person the thing is the person who wrote this probably identifies as socialist and tried to portray the Technocrats as even more wrong-bad then they already were.

>>51756482
I just want hot viking chicks is there something so wrong about that? That doesn't make me a criminal

>>51756042
What the fuck?

>>51756979

You are clearly a social justice felon.

Please immediately report to you local reeducation and diversity training camp for a privilege adjustment.

>>51756056
If you're a hubristic fuck, you could use Supernal Summoning to get a soulstone equivalent with no Gnosis cost.

>>51756998

White Wolf wants the WoD to be mega edgy, so here we are.

Where's the person a couple threads ago who said that WoD would be tailored for them and wouldn't end up like this? Where are they so they can eat crow?

>>51757003
Will the camp be filled with hot chicks in uniform?

My definition of hot is blonde and busty but I can do without the blonde, none of that mudslim head scarf shit

>>51756952

I don't know, someone in this thread's digging it, and I'm certain that once this hits /v/, people are going to celebrate this as /our guys/ being on the "right side" even though the Technocracy nearly came to blows over whether or not to support Communism or Capitalism in the post WWII world. Inadvertent pandering can still be pandering, at least to me.

I don't think the Technocracy would be for open borders save for the Void Engineers and maybe certain kinds of Syndicate members, but it just feels off that the Technocrats would be so unified in the policy.

>>51756042

Of course, I fucking said it would be like this in the last thread (because Sweden) before anti-fa attacked

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>>51756354

Ask him if his Geist told him to do it.

>>51757032

It will be filled with white men, they are the only ones that need to be re-educated since they are all filthy patriarchal rapists.

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Does anyone have the new Mind's Eye Theatre: Werewolf The Apocalypse? Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't appear to be in any of the Pastebin links.

How would you implement a meta-narrative like the Apocalypse and the Wyrm-nemesis into Forsaken? I wanted to try doing something a bit more big picture and grand epic.

Less environmental degradation (although still applicable I suppose) and more spiritual corruption rotting away human society at large, fucking up the Gauntlet and turning the Shadow into a turbulent hellhole.

>>51757965

The Idigam aren't a bad route to take for something like that, since they've got a fleshed out backstory and all.

>>51757838

I have never been able totake MET: Werewolf seriously. Vampire? sure that can pass, especially if you are a try hard with good make up, costuming and semi-decent acting ability. But I always felt a deep sense of fremdschämen watching nerds pretend to be Garou and shift into Crinos, Hispos, or Lupus. Especially the fatties and beanstocks that normally hover around these groups.

>>51756042

No trans person talks like this.

>>51758068

I've known two Werewolf LARPers and both of them were skinheads.

>>51758068
>nerds pretend to be Garou and shift into Crinos, Hispos, or Lupus.

But it allows them to express their inner fursona and feel strong and powerful. LARPs are some of the very few places this is remotely possible.

Stop asserting your social adjustment privilege.

Reposting from the older thread which I didn't notice was past the bump limit.

M20 questions:

If you have a unique instrument for say, Life, and you cast a Life 2/Prime 2 Effect, do you get the reduction in difficulty from the instrument?

Do you have to use both the unique instrument for Life and whatever instrument you had for Prime in order to cast it without going tool-less?

Also, if you wanted to use Correspondence 1 to see a distant location, could you project that location for others to see? What would it require?

>>51758186
>LARPers and both of them were skinheads

Where the heck did you find skinhead LARPers?

I would imagine LARPs are some of the safest spaces for many on the social fringe.

>>51758186

Ah, so they were roleplaying Get?

>>51758186

>when you method act Get of Fenris so hard you become an actual neo-nazi

That's hardcore dedication!

>>51758188

Serious talk though, I don't know if it would be better or worse if they put on some claw-gloves and a wolf mask. At least then i wouldn't have to look at their face when they stomp about pretending to be scary.

>>51758212

Well, I could make a comment about the sorts of people drawn to a game like Apocalypse...

>looking into VtM fiction
>come across Eternal Hearts
>look up the summary
>and some of the quotes
>"You just fucked the dead body of your sister, but I disgust you?" - Sascha to David after he sees him for the first time

Yeah, I think I'm going to skip this.

>>51758068
Personally, I'm mostly after the spirit rules -- absent from the gamma version that saw public release during the KS -- so they can be used or altered for a curveball in a vampire game.

>>51758261

Ah, so you want to throw some Garou at a Vampire LARP?

>>51758249
What, like people who study tribal societies and Barbarian Migrations in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the Western Roman Empire?

Because apocalypse is like taking those people, dropping them into a modern context and then making them exactly five times scarier then the citizens of the developed parts of the WRE would have found them to be.

And that's why it's awesome.

>>51758249

I am actually offended that you are so convinced its fanbase is composed entirely of alt-right, skinhead, libertarian neo-nazi Putin loving homophobes (insert pol or tumblr meme here)

Like, seriously. Step back and re-evaluate yourself. Its a fucking make believe game not a loud and proud political stance.

>>51758388

They also have a lot of Celtic influences, especially through the Fianna, and North African.

Despite most of its books centering around the Americas, WtA is heavily invested in ancient Europe, the Mediterranean, Mesopotamia and even Eurasia as a whole. Fuck, even the Shadow Lords have a presence in Asia and Japan. Moonbridges also makes long distance travel only adds to them being more worldly and mutliculti if you think about it.

They're just perplexedly idiotic about other Changing Breeds.

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>>51756079
This put me in the mood for alternative club dancing.
How are those reunions? I live in a third world shithole so I'll never experience them.

>>51756191
But sci-fi is one of the most LGBT friendly genres.
t. cyborg

>>51758545

WtAfag here, I can explain that actually.

The problem the Garou suffer from, as do many Changing Breeds, is the fact that they can and do commune with their ancestors. There is even a Background for having your ancestor spirits invested heavily in you. Ontop of that, you have Umbral spirits heavily influencing how the Garou act and behave. This is why, despite millennia passing them by and that most Garou don't live past 30, they still have a society that hasn't budged much since the pre-Roman era. The fact that they keep losing kinfolk, territory, and any presence they have in human social groups, has made them even more defensive against change and traditionalist in the long run. Its a mindset of being constantly under siege, emotionally physically spiritually and socially.

>>51758226
>>51758218
Didn't they make them a bit less nazi?

>>51758594

Yes. Actually, the non-Germanic ones (i.e. American Get) fought in WW2 in the allied armies to hunted down and exterminat their Nazi counterparts, who had unsurprisingly fallen to the Wyrm. It was basically Inglourious Basterds with werewolves.

>>51758616
Turbo lame to be honest. I don't see what's the appeal of playing Get if you're not gonna go full ubermensch. Like, ok, not necessarily an explicit nazi but on those lines. Not every tribe to be nice and not every character has to be sympathethic.

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>>51758591

(con't)

Its an often overlooked fact when people talk about their culture. You can imagine that its really hard to not be a crazy xenophobe when your long dead ghost-ancestor, who was a crazy asshole xenophobe Conquistador or whatever, is looming over your shoulder telling you to KILL THEM ALL, BILLY! KILL THEM AAALLLLLL!!

Then you get into Gaian spirits, which can be real cunts. Gaia might be the earth-mother, but she is not a Nice mom. Mass extinction events and genocide are part and parcel for the environment Gaia has constructed. Then you have your Totem who may or may not be a jackass as well, such as Gryphon or Pegasus.

On nearly every level of Garou, and Changing Breed society, they are crushed under the weight of their own inescapable and still living history. Its bleak and it sucks, but that is why the PCs exist to challenge it and try to change it for the better before its too late.

>>51758688

Because AMERICA, son.

>>51758494

Though, I am halfway to being a nazi myself and I've always liked werewolf. Strength! Honor! Unity! A vision to uphold by any means!

>>51758616
>Inglourious Basterds with werewolves

If only W:tA was Inglorious Bastards rather than eco-terrorist furry Captain Planet and the Planeteers, the game might have been salvageable.

>>51758747
>I am halfway to being a nazi myself

Huh?

You can reabsorb your own soul stone right? I can't find the rules on how to do it.

>>51758769

Educate yourself, shitlord.

>>51758769

I don't remember Captain Planet having a great debate over whether or not they should keep genociding humanity until they're back to the stone age.

>>51758255

Eternal Hearts is infamous for being the worst WoD book, so you made the right choice.

>Why did we write an erotic Vampire novel? For money!
>t. Justin Achilli

>>51758716
>Because AMERICA, son.

Yeah but I just saw that they also genocided the Get based around american white supremacists. Like literally fucking why. It's like if in Masquerade clan Tzimisce started to genocide torturers and slavs.

>>51758851

I think it would be great if it was actually good. WW should try reaching out to actually decent genre writers, not that that will happen.

Its sad when Japanese datesim VNs have better writing and plots than this shit.

>>51758806
That's the one thing that bothered me about WTA, how are the genocidal Garou going to genocide humanity back to the stone age. Aren't there only like, 50,000 Garou on the planet?

>>51756042
>>51756191
Is it too much to ask for good stories ? I mean, if they HAVE TO push their beliefs/agenda/whatever, could they at least be subtle about it ?
Fuck, I was hoping for something interesting, not teen fanfiction.

>>51756042
Should I buy?

>>51758879

Because it purifies them into a good guy image to make the leftist minded playing the game feel comfortable, instead of providing some element of nuance to their hypocritical behavior.

I could see them still dismantling the American Nazi Party though, just to establish that their version of an Aryan nation is the one in control.

>#NotAllGet

>>51758890
The main theme of the game is "Your war is lost because your ancestors were all idiots".

>>51758890

Time of Judgment had a couple of good scenarios, such as making supervolcanos go active or summoning an angry celestial body to slam into Gaia and kill everyone.

>>51758806
Why genocide humanity when you can turn them into trees?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJaELXadKo

>>51758916
They should've just portrayed them as villains with varying degrees of complexity (or lack of it) depending on how much the writer hates nazis.

What's the new Get niche? Being 40k Space Wolfs without the space part? It seems like there's no reason to not play White Fangs instead, at least for me.

>>51758880

Sorry, even now for their big game all you get is Zak "See this ass on the ground all bloody? I ATE that ass, and I'm very sad now" Sabbath.

>>51758945

>the Pack summons an Incarna into realspace

>>51758785

I am very right-wing and growing increasingly so, if the current trajectory continues I'll be full nazi in a few years.

>>51758981

Basically. They're werewolf viking berserkers with undercurrents of 'survival of the fittest'. Basically the Warrior Tribe.

Only, every Garou is a warrior. So it feels silly?

Why isn't Paradox giving Bloodlines an HD remaster? I don't want a sequel if the original doesn't even work. Wesp has been releasing a patch every month for over a decade. The game is fundamentally broken and will never be fixed unless Paradox throws money at the problem. Updating to Source 2013 would also give real mod support that would allow whole new stories rather than tweaking the base game.

Agree or disagree?

>>51759065

Because :effort: and isn't Activision the one making money off of Bloodlines?

Though, judging by these text adventure games though I'm not sure I want to see any more oWoD or One World video game products.

>>51759065

Because Bloodlines is owned by Activision, and if we've learned anything from the Werewolf game and the Preludes, Paradox wants to spend the least amount of money that they possibly can on WoD products. There's a reason they're going through Focus and Asmodee.

Negotiating with Activision for an HD remaster is going to use time and money that they do not have.


Also Dracula would demand that the story be brought up to speed with One World of Darkness, let's not lie.

>>51759035
Silly indeed. Literally every ahroun character ever will already pretty much that. And even plenty of other garous as you say.

>>51759132

>Asmodee

Oh dear god no. Even if it was FFG doing it it would be awful.

>>51759103
>>51759132
How is one world any worse than anything that came before? I'm nonpartisan so I don't understand the problem.

>>51759029
>I am very right-wing and growing increasingly so, if the current trajectory continues I'll be full nazi in a few years.

Political conservatives, at least in America, are nowhere close to nazis, despite the hyperbolic ravings of some on the far-left.

It is ironic that while both Democrats and Republicans in the USA are right of center by European standards, the far right (and far left) are totally unelectable to federal and statewide office in America, while they openly thrive and hold countrywide and EU elected offices.

As they say, the dark specter of fascism is always descending on America, yet lands only in Europe.

>>51758930
>"Your war is lost because your ancestors were all idiots".

The current werewolf descendants have not exactly demonstrated insight and intelligence.

>>51758787
Break the stone, your Gnosis potential instantly snaps back.
The Willpower dot you spent does not.

>>51759287
To be fair, it can be difficult to make smart decisions when the calmest of your species is filled with more rage and anger than any human in existence tenfold.

>>51759287
>The current werewolf descendants have not exactly demonstrated insight and intelligence.
The playerbase idealizes this behavior. They sound like religious zealots mixed with the worst autist stereotypes.

>>51759256


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKXfCvqCfmY [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ooC_7rHLDU [Embed]


>>51756042
>>51756191


Hope this answers your question.

>>51755633
Thought exercise. What if WoD was originally published today? How would it have been different?

>>51759335

I see you are shitposting with fallacies. I am also a fallacious shitposter myself.

>>51759360

You have nwod to work from, but as for owod the apocalyptic themes would be absent. That was predicated on the turn of the millennia fear at the time, coming off the 80's and into the 90's.

>>51759287

See >>51758591 >>51758716

>>51759065

There was that Bloodlines fan remake, Project Vaulderie, but CCP came hard down on it and shut the project for good.

>>51759360
I don't see it.

>>51759373
Didn't the mage fans send the author death threats? No exactly the most socially acceptable behavior.

>>51759417

>Didn't the mage fans send the author death threats? No exactly the most socially acceptable behavior.

Check your sources and provide citations before making claims that wild.

>>51759352
I don't see it.

>>51759428

Are you perhaps blind, anon?

>>51759424
The threads on rpg.net where the author says he was terrified to check his inbox because mage fans sent death threats?

>>51759352
I want to play these games but I don't have a VISA, nor family or friends to lend me theirs.
How long should I wait to pirate this?

>>51759417

We are talking about WtA fans, not Mage. If you want to accuse either of anything though then the majority are probably super hard leaning leftists, possibly communists.

I'm not sure where anyone gets this idea that they're crazy Libertarian racists. One look at their forums will disprove otherwise about the majority who still care about the game.

>>51759453

Provide a source, otherwise you're talking out of your ass.

>>51759470
fifteen minutes ago

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Question!

Has anybody here ever been tempted to run a story that is basically "VtM Bloodlines" for players that are new to WoD?

Because some friends of mine are contemplating trying out VtM, and I figure the whole "Ankaran Sarcophagus" questline to be a perfect story to get them hooked into the setting and whatnot.

None of them play any PC/RPG games AT ALL, so I don't have to worry about them having played the pc game either.

Basically, as I see it, all I have to change in the story is to make it about a group of newly-embraced fledglings rather than just one.

>>51759522

Never been tempted, but why not?
Its perfect for new players actually.
will need some tweaking tho.

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>>51759498
Really?

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I want to undertake the monumental task of un-fucking this book. I don't know where to even begin.

>>51759574

1. Stand up.
2. Pick up the book.
3. Throw it into the bin.
4. Start from scratch.
5. Profit?

>>51759447
I really don't understand what you mean to tell me. Why is 1 world bad?

>>51759489
Straight from the mouth of a moderator: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?515742-Owod-What-was-mage-like-before-revised/page6

>>51759522
It will work. The success of bloodlines was basically based around introducing the lore to new people without dumbing it down too much.

>>51759614

That was my first gut reaction but I'm a glutton for punishment so I'm doing this the hard way.

I think just about all of the lore sections can be ignored. Not that you can glean much from Brucatto's mad ramblings! But what about its mechanics? Should the Changing Breeds have a morality system like the Harmony that Uratha use? Or something unique to them?

>>51759257

I'm a Swede, and I've started to see right-wing fascism as a glowing eagle rather than a dark specter.

>>51759573
If you're going to pirate just do it, don't go asking people for some justification. according to the market you weren't going to pay for it at the price anyways, why fight the pragmatism ?

>>51759574
Kill everything Phil touched

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>>51759672
I still need someone to put the content online for me to download it, that's what I was asking
Inb4 no one does it and I die without playing it

>>51759645
They omitted most of the context so all the name dropping makes little sense. Bloodlines was popular because Troika had decent writers. Much better than White Wolf/Onyx Path. Bloodlines probably has more fans than the tabletop games.

Quick question. Does WoD attract many newbies or it is mostly people who got into it during the early-mid 90s boom? I recall reading that revised and later CoD was only made because of falling sales.

>>51759769

Me and my old group got into WoD around the release of nWoD, I think some of them had played oWoD a little bit, but most of us hadn't. But that was a long time ago, but not as far as mid 90's of course.

>>51759702
>>51759672

not like im pro or against it, i don't give a fuck but why /WoDg/ is the only general so obsessed with not uploading their books?
just curious

for me its kind of funny because WoD and oWoD was probably only system i 'got' back in the day in its entirety

GURPs fag share, warhammers fags share, 40k and 40k rpg fags share, flames of war fags share and even when half of the books are free eclipse phase fags are sharing homebrew and official content and that just examples

>>51759702
try /pdf/ share threads, maybe at least some oWoD shit will be there

>>51759769

I got into it around '98-99, along with a bunch of other people, and some came in with Exalted then migrated to WoD. But yeah I think by the early 2000's it lost momentum. nWoD then alienated people as badly as Age of Sigmar did Warhammer fans and rip WW.

>>51759769
I think that it's a combination of nostalgiafag veterans who played on their teenager years and now have way more economic power and a new generation that played the videogame and/or knows Masquerade as a classic in roleplaying games and wants to try it.

>>51759829

heh remember these days like yesterday

nWoD actually grew on me after some time recently but playing in 90' and getting into the whole internet mess that was forums back then when nWoD hit was fucking not worth it man, not worth it
to this day i barely touch world of darkness because of that

>>51759876

I bought the core and VtR, thought it was interesting but no one wanted to play it and then Mage and Forsaken and I washed my hands of it.

>>51759819
We have pdfs in pastbin on the top. Prequels are a video game app. You're being that guy and throwing shade where there is no tree

>>51759769
>tfw I'm getting into oWoD because I clicked on a Beast cringe thread, which led me to the FATAL & Friends archive, which led me to oWoD reviews, which led me to the free WtA quickstart, which led me here

>>51759672

Are there any mechanical problems with Changing Breeds that need to be changed or dropped?

Where on the power curve do they sit? Is it close to Uratha or are they below them? I'm trying to consider them as potential for mixed groups. WtF is at least a lot more open to Werewolves working with others than WtA was, but there needs to be a Reason for them to hang out with Lionman and Crowboy.

>>51759912
It's the best time to get into oWoD to be honest.

>>51759912

That is an amazing ride, anon. I hope it hasn't soured your outlook on the games as a whole.

>>51759352
So we went from painfully 80s/90s to painfully 10s. Why should we expect any different? XoD is pretty silly to begin with having character classes based on high school cliques and being SJW before it was fashionable.

>>51756244
>>51758004

God Tier
>Archmage

Top Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Middle Tier
>Mage
>Demon
>Sin-Eater
>Mummy
>Beast
>Werewolf
>Promethean

Street Tier
>Changeling
>Vampire
>Surprised mage
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

Does this spell sound cosher?
Indulgence
Mind 3
Weaving
Potency primary
By manipulating the mechanisms involved with regaining willpower you can force it's recovery. The target regains willpower as if they had indulged their vice.
1 Reach: regain potency willpower
2 Reach: the target is treated as if they indulged their virtue. They are still limited to indulging virtue twice per session.

>>51759930

I think a lot of people are lionizing the games of the late 70's through the 90's these days because of how sterilized or politically aligned a lot of bigger name games are these days. Of course its also appealing to their elders and 'retro' is a continuing trend in gaming, both table top and in video games.

>>51759943

Can someone explain to me why Vampire gets ranked so low? I thought they were buffed in 2e and have decent combat builds you can do.

>>51759893

I like some ideas from VtR, actually preferred Frosaken elements of 'pure primal rage' and stuff like that over the wierd gaian earth shamanism in apocalypse but god almighty what in the fuck happened in Mage. Kill it with fire i say.

How they turned one of more deep cosmological philosophy wanks in rpgs into... what exactly? I don't even know what Mage the Awaking should even be or pretend to be to this day.

I might missed it, if someone can elaborate but for me, to vulgarly simplify it felt after one read that they turned reality bending beings of the cosmos into atlantean harry potter spin off.

>>51759930
Having played PbtA and Fate, I find the rules to be clunky and overly complex. That instantly turns me off.

Are there any rules light conversions or should I wing it with a different system?

>>51759964
I agree, oWoD was always political, but as a guy who was underage when they ditched it in favour of CofD this "political" part of it is easy to ignore or even turn into just another gonzo aspect of the setting.

>>51759953
There was a spell in 1e that let you give people willpower if they did a task, so this might not be out of line. The reaches, however, seem like a bridge too far.

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>>51759903

Im retarded and i feel deeply ashamed that my reading comprehension is fucking non existant atm. It was just light curiosity but i should read whole thing before sperging out and blogposting.

Thanks anon.

>>51759923
The beast packages are miss costed and imbalanced.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/4eppxl/cofd_changing_breed_mechanics_review/

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/daeren/changing-breeds/

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/changing-breeds/

>>51759987

WtA still has all the 'PRIMAL RAGE' aspects. Like, they really aren't that dissimilar. Forsaken just lacks the meta-narrative about the Triat and pollution killing the planetary ecosystems.

Although Forsaken COULD be construed that way, with human misery and destroyed environments giving rise to awful spirits in the Shadow.

>>51759999
>WoD
>complex

Unless by played PbtA and Fate you mean ONLY those two, you must be a troll. You can make a character in half an hour and literally every action consists on throwing a lots of dices. It's one of the simplest systems I've ever played.

>>51759943

Are there any other "god tier" templates besides the archmages?

>>51759984
Ignore the obvious magefag shitposting. We've had the last two weeks of derailment by this shit

>>51760062

Oh okay. I'm just confused by posts like this. iirc Gangrel and such could make pretty good combat monsters. They aren't bending the setting over backwards with a flick of the wrist, but when it comes to fisticuffs they seemed solid until a decently statted Uratha shows up.

>>51759932
I only have a bad view of CofD right now. Kinda iffy on MTAS, not really interested in VTM, etc.

WTA is really appealing to me though since I like Law vs Chaos cosmologies and flawed heroes.

>>51759999
The WTA intro kit uses a really simplified system without gifts or merits and d6s instead of d10s. I haven't read the full WTA rules but the intro kits seems really slick.

>>51760058
At least storybabbies will never be as prevalent as 3.PFbabbies.

>>51759984
Vampires just aren't as strong.

>>51760032
You're fine. It does take time for shit to roll into the mega and 4chan is not the most helpful all the time. and thats putting it mildly

>>51759987
Playing as science heroes fighting SJWs isn't much fun either. Honestly I can't really empathize with any of the games because the politics are so divorced from reality.

Vampires are various flavors of psycho. Werewolves want to destroy the world. Mages want to conquer the world. Changelings want to eat creativity. Wraiths want to make each othet into soylent green.

I can't get into any of it. My SoD is also shattered by the absurdly high populations and the lack of sunnyde syndrome half the time.

>>51760095

WtA isn't even that complicated so simplifying it seems a little pointless to me.

>>51760094
>until a decently statted Uratha shows up

There's your problem.

>>51760125
>Werewolves want to destroy the world.

#NotAllWerewolves

>>51760136

Aren't the Uratha top tier when it comes to direct physical combat?

>>51759943
Why are Mages always so high on these lists? I thought they were only the strongest of the three main game lines.

>>51760126
This. Print the sheet and fill some circles. You're ready to play.

>>51760094
Vampire are like the benchmark of powers. But they have some notable weaknesses. which is why they'll always be powerful in direct confrontation, but smart folks can do work aroundes.

So if I want to start a mage-adventure with my group, should I go nWoD or oWoD?

>>51760161
They have a ridiculous growth curve. They go from limited control of certain phenomena to unlimited cosmic power over said phenomena.

>>51760163

Well, I also mean that their mechanics at starting are very simple too. You have 3 Gifts and most Rank 1 Gifts are very simple in their function. You have five forms which boil down to '+stats, +melee weapon' and Delirium. Rage and Gnosis are extremely self-explanatory. Spend one for extra actions, spend the other for magic.

Boom done.

VtM is even more simple with how basic most Disciplines are, especially Fortitude/Potence.

Now, you start playing a Mage and I could see the issue simply because of how Spheres work.

>>51760169
nWoD.

>>51759964
>think a lot of people are lionizing the games of the late 70's through the 90's these days because of how sterilized or politically aligned

Indeed, on occasion I wax nostalgic about the katanas, mirror shades, trench coats, black and white, ends justify the means, morality and ever present rage against The Man that characterized sci-fi and fantasy from my youth.

However, with the benefit of decades of education and life experience, and a distinctly different popular culture, I don't believe I can still play the games from the 80's and 90's except as gonzo comedy. I certainly will not spend hundreds of dollars for "deluxe" editions without substantial contemporary updates and revisions, no less when the changes exemplify all that was wrong with the earlier work (*cough* M20 *cough*).

Simply, "if there can be only one," for me, it's not going to be the oWOD.

>>51760206
Mage was always the weird kid of the class, due to the philosophy of "you can do anything".

>>51760058
There are several problems:

The basic statistics are based on an outdated 80s simulationism model. Modern games use less narrow traits based on backgrounds and circumstances.

WoD/CoD has laundry lists of powers that are extremely narrow in scope and basically all over the place with disciplines, devotions, threnodies, sorcery, etc.

The lore is extremely restrictive and forces you to play a specific kind of Anne Rice-style vampire with no room for other concepts like daywalking, wallcrawling, flight, transmitting vampirism like a disease, being a werewolf that isn't a spirit warrior, werewolfs that change like water rather than five specific forms, whatever.

Tldr The rules are clunky and the fluff is a straightjacket.

>>51760211

But so many people shit on it, like the guy above, it makes me a bit worried.

>>51760222

I would like a thoughtful, well-written reimagining of oWoD the way comic book characters grow and evolve over the years but still circle around the same plot points and character flaws.

And also with the decade plus of rules development to inform its mechanics.

>>51760169

If you like harry potter and are plebaian try nWoD.

If you like mind and reality shattering shenanigans and are patrician try oWoD.

If you are deep one and have balls of steal and are into weird old games, try notHarry Potter Ars Magica.

>>51760253

I honestly wish a vampire PC was a laundry list of cool powers, like how Bram Stoker's was, or in more contemporary times, like Castlevania's Dracula and Alucard or god forbid Hellsing's.

>>51760169
nwod
The clusterfuck mechainics of owod isn't worth it

>>51760200
Yes but how can they actually apply that to anything. Mages can't fight 1v1 and rely on sneak attacks for everything. How are they going to deal with a hostile changeling, they can't.

>>51760256
Only nostalgiafags shit on it.

>>51760259
Good luck with that. Remember when they sent Jess Henig death threats over the avatar storm?

>>51760279
You can play Ascension with Awakening. What is translation guide?

>>51760298
CoD is worse. It has Fate mechanics poorly bolted onto a nWoD chasis.

>>51760253
So the system is not complex at all, you just don't like the game. Which is perfectly fine, every game has haters and WoD is not an exception at all. Just don't lie. Make a FATE vampire campaign if you want a "mom told me I could be whatever I wanted" game. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not WoD.

Also don't spout shit about "modern" games. The date of publishing of a game has nothing to do with their rules being simple and based on sentences instead of numbers. There's plenty of young games with way more complicated systems than WoD.

>>51760330
>CoD is worse. It has Fate mechanics poorly bolted onto a nWoD chasis.

How so? I am ignorant of the gamelines. Please expalin.

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>>51760330
four rolls for one attack

>>51759984
>Can someone explain to me why Vampire gets ranked so low? I thought they were buffed in 2e and have decent combat builds you can do.

Vampires were substantially buffed in 2e, but for the most part, so were every other 2e splat. Vampires no doubt can now far more easily deal with mundane and minor supernatural threats, but 2e is basically a wash as compared to the other major templates.

>>51760059
>Are there any other "god tier" templates besides the archmages?

No, but A Thousand Years of Night, the Requiem elders supplement should be released soon, and it will likely provide some top tier power options. However, DaveB and Rose noted that due to its thematic focus, it would not be the Imperial Mysteries of the Vampire gameline.

>>51760350

Eh, I've played with worse.

>>51760359

I would actually love to play an elder Vampire instead of a neonate for once. If only to have more variety with power selection and a presence in the game world.

>>51760377
which are not nWod

glad that we agree nwod is simpler

>>51760405

I wanted something more like how defense values and soak were handled in Exalted 2e, but not the one roll method for attack/damage.

I do agree that multiple actions and attacks break game systems in half though. This is something everyone fails at. Your economy of actions is very important for how you balance a game.

>>51760126
>WtA isn't even that complicated
Neither is AD&D but people still like B/X.

>>51760253
>The basic statistics are based on an outdated 80s simulationism model.

wew lad have a (You)

>>51760299

Tell me, how exactly are Changelings going to prevail against sufficiently pissed off Mages?

""they can't""

I would love some fucking proof that Mage is the strongest splat but no one here has the dick size to do it. Go suck off a whore, magefags.

>>51760429
check out the G-D machine chronicle rules. they divorced armor and defense into their one stats. same with attack pools and weapon damage

(attack dice pool) - (def number) = attack damage

attack damage + weapon bonus - Armor = damage.

What they did was just take the average weapon damage and stuck with it. but you still have to hit and beat the armor rating

>>51760478
Muh space and galaxies

>>51760253

I feel like you're complaining about density and granularity and that its not, as one anon put, a simple FATE-esque system.

Having chunk to the mechanics is not a bad thing! Its only problematic when its needlessly dense and interacts poorly slowing down gamepaly, like in say Phoenix Command.

>>51760483

Is there a difference between GMC and 2e/CofD? I'm completely new here.

>>51760478
ignore the magefags. everyone knows no one cares

>>51760496
>space
Ok and how does one single arcana make them so amazing?

>>51760520

I care.

>>51760518
nwod = 1ed
GMC = 1.5ed
CofD = 2ed

GMC and CofD are the same. in fact a good bit of 1ed fluff and junk is still good. think of GMC as a mechanics update. Chronicles was a re branding to differentiate OPP and Paradox's product lines.

>>51760478

The thematic focus of Mage is the corruption of near limitless power without boundaries or limitations, and with a totally open-ended mechanical magic system used to emulate control of all aspects of reality.

Besides the fact that this issue has been exhaustively discussed by WW authors and developers for years, to say nothing of the references about Mage power levels in books like The Pack and The Demon Storyteller's Guide, given the just narrative focus of Mage, you hostility to the obvious simply makes you appear impudent and impotent.

Someone types "mage" and everyone gets angry

>>51760581
All of that fucking power requires rituals and shit. They can't fucking use it in combat and are just fleshy humans. Actual monsters > normie humans.

Get over it.

>>51760524
Given time to prepare and a minimum of 2 dots in Space, mages can spy on and attack enemies from the comfort of their own Sanctums. This does impose an extra Withstand to overcome, but since the mage could be on the moon for all he cares, he can take his time and use as many Yantras as possible, get a metric shit ton of dice, and blast his target off the face of the earth. The enemies mages are meant to fight, other mages, have means to counter this, but other splats don't, because this game was not designed for crossovers, and I have no idea why you would actually play one.

>>51760644
>werewolf breaks through door
>mage is jerking off
>what does mage do?
>dies

I fail to see how any Mage is going to defend against something like this.

>>51760578

Oh okay so its just a name change. The mechanics are still the same between GMC and CofD?

>>51760644
yantra max out at +5 bonuses in total. you still need a sympathy yantra to cast at such a distance. and if you're close enough to clip some toe nails, they're close enough to hit yah over the head

>>51760583
It's paradox backlash.

>>51760583
>Magefans shitpost for 90 straight generals
>But why are people mad tho?

>>51760679
yes. all you have to do is pay attention to the date on the core rule books and get the latest chronologically. Right now they have mage, werewolf and vampire up to the 2ed. also Promethean and Demon. Changeling is getting a 2ed update as well thou it's still in the works

>>51756042

Please tell me this is fake.

>>51760767
It is not

>>51760757

Well, that depends. The different editions are different, after all. I'd say that there are three WoDs, that is oWoD, nWoD (by which I mean 1e) and CofD (by which I mean post God Machine/2e)

>>51760743
It's not hard to see why Magefags are such good instigators. It's like why atheists pick on the religious. You know the truth, but they refuse to acknowledge it.

You don't win against them until you develop brains and common fucking sense.

>>51760644
>. The enemies mages are meant to fight, other mages, have means to counter this, but other splats don't,
feet of mist/being in another world/being in another form (which requires scaling up for size), being immune to magic divination

>>51760609
>>51760676

Well aren't you a misinformed little bitch. Mages can deal with Uratha quite efficiently.

>>51760832

oh god, its Bitchfag again

>>51760841

Bitch

>>51760832
>Mages can deal with Uratha quite efficiently.
every example of them dealing with wrwolves efficiently requires strength and sympathetic connections and knowing all about them behind impenetrable barriers while the wolves are completely oblivious

>>51760864
>requires strength
space imean sry

>>51760864

Hardly. Mages have plenty of ways to lock-down Uratha without a glimmer of hope for them to escape.

And if that doesn't work? Unmaking, coup de grace.

I move to kick all mageposters out of the general.

>>51760891
>unmaking meme

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>>51760912

The Uratha was coming right for me!

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>>51760932

>The Urataha was cumming right for me

You know it, babe. *winks*

Magefags are colossal dicks

>>51760942

Sorry, I already have a weregimp.

>people assert that mages can be easily killed with brute force
>magefags point out that this isn't true
>thirty threads of butthurt and sperging

>>51760806
>Magefags are atheists
>Anti-Magefags are Christians

Makes sense.

Werewolves are Awesome!
Red Talon
Elodoth moon
Judge Dread

Iron Master
Cahalith Moon
COURAGE WOLF

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>>51760963

>implying Mages wouldn't want to be the subbie pet gimp in a DBSM relationship after a long hard stressful day of managing the cosmos and fighting other Archmages

>that sweet satisfaction of giving over control for just a moment in a safe environment and obeying

Don't worry, I'll take good care of you~

>>51761068

What lovely fanfiction, faggo doggo.

>>51760713
>yantra max out at +5 bonuses in total.

This is incorrect. Yantras only permit a *net* bonus of +5 *after penalties.* Mages only need a single success for a spell to take full effect. Unlike other gamelines, the number of successes only matter for purposes of an Exceptional Success (which provide fantastic bonuses for mages).

>if you're close enough to clip some toe nails,

You really need to reread the Sympathetic Yantra section and representative objects.

>All of that fucking power requires rituals and shit.

No, all spells except for rotes cast out of grimoires can be used instantly (and a few even reflexively) with a simple Reach (or one mana with certain attainments)


Did you actually read Mage 2e, or are you just relying on rumor and innuendo?

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>>51761089

Its cute when they act huffy.

>>51761106

>Mages only need a single success for a spell to take full effect.

That seems like a mistake.

>>51761068
>Sounds about right
Nerd that has been bullied by the world, uses his new worlds for frivolousness bullshit pissing matches, when all he wants is the knot

>>51761106
Yah no I'm right you're wrong
>page172
Mages with Space 2 or more can also use links to cast
other spells on subjects not within sensory range, by routing
their magic along the lines of sympathy using an Attainment.
In these cases, the spell is Withstood by Space itself; weaker
connections are more difficult to use

space 2 you still need a connection
fuck off magefag.

>>51760483
Even observant jews are able to speak of alternate deities without saying g-d.
You're being a fucking moron and it's annoying me.

>>51760676
>werewolf breaks through door

First, breaking into a mage's sanctum, his most mundanely and magically protected retreat, often occupied by other members of his cabal, and where he stores of his toys and Yantras, is effectively committing suicide by mage.

However, if said werewolf did manage break in, no less by surprise, why do you believe a mage would be unable to deal with the threat?

First, Mage Armor, some of the best defenses in the CofD, can be raised reflexively. A mage is almost never totally defenseless even if unconscious.

Second, mages of even moderate ability have a range of both environmental and attack spells that can be used instantly, often at range and with no ability to employ Defense. Mages rarely will engage in melee combat.

Third, to the extent the mage is truly threatened, most Arcana provide ready and effective means of escape, such as teleportation, flight and incredible speed, shift to twilight and other times and dimensions, etc. The mage then can slowly enact his revenge at a time and place of his choosing.

>>51761204
And you're an autistic, for observing a meaningless grammar aspect, and that annoys me

Any good inspiration for what Arcadia would be like. Planning a changeling the lost campaign that is going to start with the PC's getting taken and actually play through their visit to Arcadia.

>>51761125
>That seems like a mistake.

No, it was by design. Recall that mages take penalties to increase spell Factors.

>>51761246
It's not a meaningless grammar aspect, it's a religious observance that you're either making a mockery of or misapplying to seem like something you aren't on an anoynmous internet forum and both options are retarded.

>>51761136

I bet if I had said it was a snu-snu musclegirl werewolf they would be all over it.

>>51761263

Oh true.

Sorry I'm not well versed on Mage, so I usually avoid these discussions so I'm not contributing any misinformation.

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>>51761289
>actually considering information presented rather than using the argument as a vehicle for shitposting

How many Beats / Xp you usually give out per session?

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>>51759769
>They omitted most of the context so all the name dropping makes little sense.

Name dropping without context? What are you referring to?

I mean, I'm honestly trying to think of a situation in the game where they drop the name of some big bad player in the World of Darkness but don't really explain them... but the only ones I can recall at the top of my head are Jack (who is explained away as being a notorious Anarch and chaos-loving bastard), and Beckett, who is a vampire scholar/historian and is immediately introduced as such.

Can you help me out? I'm drawing a blank here, anon.

>>51759943
This list should be saved for future references.
Not a single mistake..

>Beast Supremacy

>>51760932
>>51760942
>>51760963
>>51761068
>>51761089
>>51761113

This is a blooming love story. I totally ship you guys. So yandere of the magefag.

>>51761327

I'm trying to make it a better community...

>>51761470

>Mages are yandere for the other Big Three splats

Makes sense.

>>51761247
Anything goes is about the long and short of it. The world of Doctor Who is a good one. Each and every fairy tale and scary story ever told are also fair game. Don't forget that in Arcadia, the Gentry are the who, the what, the when, the where, the everything and only the rules they decide to impose on themselves matter. Like I said, the Doctor makes a pretty good Gentry.

>>51758249
Well, I could make a comment about the sorts of people drawn to a game like mummy the curse

So could a freshly awakened Mummy and a Demon going loud defend against an exceptional success Unmaking spell? Or is there no way?

>>51761282
>Being this autistic

That fact that you care so much, actually makes me want to troll you
G_D
g-d
G^D
G()D
Dog

now stop being a pedantic little shit about a non issue

Mage

>>51759984
I think it's more like general splat ranking. Vampires have single high exp combat build that can probably defeat for instance combat oriented werewolf, but on average werewolf will steam roll vampire.

>>51760679
I think there are 2 small differences. GMC used 1e foot chase rules and CofD has new foot chase rules. Also CofD has new Investigation rules (which are not that great anyway and don't really work for anything but Mortal games)

>>51761982
>Le I troll u :^D

You were acting retarded and got called out on it, stop being a moron and accept it.

>>51762044
Yeah No. you can go trigger yourself

>>51760483
>check out the G-D machine chronicle rules. they divorced armor and defense into their one stats. same with attack pools and weapon damage
>(attack dice pool) - (def number) = attack damage
>attack damage + weapon bonus - Armor = damage.
>What they did was just take the average weapon damage and stuck with it. but you still have to hit and beat the armor rating

>>51761862
>So could a freshly awakened Mummy and a Demon going loud defend against an exceptional success Unmaking spell?

No. Nothing can defend against such a spell once you start throwing in Exceptional Successes.
That's the entire point, Withstand is no longer a factor.

Mummies can rain down meteors from the heavens, Demons can turn NYC into a crater ridden wasteland, but Masters only need to spare a quick glance and you're dead and gone.

>>51762270
Which is why you should always take Master level spells as Praxis.

>>51762461
Or Rotes

>>51762270
Clash of Wiiiiiiiiiills.
I mean the Mage is almost certain to win, but it's not a sure thing.

>>51762523
>Implying every spell is clashed

>>51762150
What's amazing is that in a conversation that started with me complaining about the use of "g-d" you still manage to be the most butthurt.

>>51761401
I don't know what he means either.

>>51762487
If you're trying to be a real min-max munchkin jack-ass (you're playing mage so the answer is yes).

The probability for an exceptional success on a 10-again 10-dicepool praxis is 66.27%. The same probability for a rote is 23.39% it goes up to 56.89% if you use a +5 mudra.

As you can see a rote is sup-optimal since at Mastery level you aren't going to be getting any bonus reach for using a rote.

However if you're using a Rote you designed yourself the 10 dice pool exceptional success goes up to 72.08% and a massive 96.24% if using a +5 mudra.

So yes a rote can be better but only if you design it yourself. Which is what you should be doing with all your spare mana if you're a master.

>>51762614
>math

Why do people even question Mage Supremacy at this point?

>>51758261
The spirit rules are not super impressive. IT's just adjustments of the Stock NPC rules giving additional specialization options; nothing you can't house rule/adjust from the normal Stock NPC rules. It includes things like 'jagglings are rank 3-5 and can't take elder specializations, can take gnosis as a spec to have 4x their rank in gnosis' and a few other things. It's nothing super-special. There are some rules in the NPC/antagonist section for giant monsters and how they affect the Physical attack economy.

>>51762614

Rotes seem plenty terrifying now.

>>51758212
All people LARP and it's only recently that the whole OTHER SAFE SPACE X CARD bullshit has become prevalent in the LARP scene.

>>51762523
I know this isn't a fair comparison, but Archmasters automatically win any Clash of Wills against the lesser splats.

They just HAD to shove them in the 2E corebook.

>>51762681
When deciding between a Rote and a Praxis the first question should be "How important is an exceptional success?" followed by "How much reach will I need?"

In cases where the spell is just as good with a regular success as it is with an exceptional success or requires inordinate amounts of reach I favor rotes e.g. Teleportation.

Spells where withstand is a concern or are going to be 'spam cast' Praxis pull ahead due to the utility of an easier exceptional success (Often times Knowing/Unveiling effects, Attack spells, or Healing).

That is until you attain mastery. Then you should be spending all your down time/spare mana creating your own Rotes.

I want to play a game of Vampire. I only really have experience with Changeling, and my group fucking fell in love with the tone.

What version should I run? I don't know anything about oWoD but I'm willing to learn and throw out the metaplot if it's a more enjoyable game.

>>51762955

Revised or V20 if you like Masquerade, Requiem 2e if you want to listen to everyone here telling you to play CofD

>>51762992
That really doesn't tell me anything and your couching of CofD as inferior because people are gong to suggest I play it doesn't really make your opinion seem very appealing.

Can you give me some actual advice?

>>51762614
>math

I would only note that the mundra bonus can actually go to +6, represented by the max +5 for skill and a possible additional +1 if the Rote is using one of his Order's rote skill specialties

>>51762730
>Archmasters automatically win any Clash of Wills against the lesser splats.
>They just HAD to shove them in the 2E corebook

The rule was included in Imperial Mysteries, and since mages are notorious for being able to clash wills for almost anything, that archmaster ability really highlights how they are head and shoulder above their lesser mage brethren.

Apparently the mobile games are awful. There's apparently some awesome discussions going including David HIll considering quitting.

>>51763091
It sounds like he's gotten into e-fights with the author of the Vamp Prelude(Zak S?) before and Hill has been getting death threats so doesn't want to work with anything whitewolf adjacent?

Its hard to follow but drama is so fun.

>>51763116
Death threats aren't cool. But this whole implosion of stuff is what a lot of us were expecting when the subpar WW shit started to flow.

>>51756042

I want to vomit

>>51763136
>death threats aren't cool
Neither is ruining Changeling 2e. Or is that Brucato? I can never get those shitpiles straight in my head.

>>51763091
>here's apparently some awesome discussions going including David HIll considering quitting.

Where are these discussion?

>>51762955
I'd recommend VtR 2ed. It's fairly streamlined and quick to learn. I prefer some of the lore from the first edition VtR, but either way it's way easier to get into than VtM's metaplot.

>>51763158
Brucato is probably a dog fucker. Hill is a commie. I think.

>>51763021

I was joking, calm down bruh

Revised has more material I think but it's spread out in more books and has some older mechanics. V20 has more stuff in the core book and has newer rules, but is still based off the oWoD core mechanics which some might think are terrible.

Requiem has the most up to date rules but it's a completely different gameline, it's more based on personal horror than the struggle against the elders or whatever VtM has. It has more playable factions compared to the usual Camarilla/Sabbat/Anarch divide.

VtM has metaplot that you may or may not like, years of material to pull from, and has more of a gothic punk feel.

Requiem is more modern, is more of a toolkit for you to run whatever you want, and has more focus on personal horror.

If you like VtM fluff but don't like the metaplot then you can always just ignore it, but if you can like Requiem fluff then it might be better to run that.

>>51763165
Some screenshots and discussion on somethingawful, and a little bit on reddit.

https://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3712435&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=311

Go back a couple of pages.

>>51763158

Brucato crapped on M20.

However, I lay complete blame on Rich Thomas.

Brucato is a known egomaniacal douche, and Rich still chose to allow him to be the M20 developer and virtually only author. Much worse, despite being the owner and "creative director" of OPP, he completely abdicated his editorial and creative responsibilities on M20 by failing to reign in Brucato at all.

That's assuming you don't use any yantras. Reflexively using a +1 yantra gives you something like a 70% chance of getting three successes.

So, with the "video games" released by White Wolf, is CofD officially dead?

>>51763232

>tfw no demon the descent video game

>>51763244
Ofc not. It'd "ruin the modular feel of the game". Just ask Dracula.

>>51763232
CofD has been perma declared as a table top only medium. No vidya or Netflix series out of it. All the promotion going to One World of Darkness.

CofD will still probably average more releases than even the entire conglomeration of "One World" tho.

When do I get bonuses from material sympathy? Using it for sympathetic range just determines the Withstand rating. When do I use get those sweet yantra dice?

>>51763302
>CofD will still probably average more releases than even the entire conglomeration of "One World" tho.

Yeah. Sure. They have been absolutely fantastic with giving out 2e supplements.

If I wasn't already a fan of the line, I'd have abandoned it now due to lack of support.

>>51763327
True, and what with David Hill apparently quitting over the author of the Vampire Prelude VN who knows if we'll ever see another book again. Releases are already slow AF without a prolific author leaving the ranks.

>>51763323
Material sympathy used for sympathetic casting don't give dice bonus.

>>51763327

CofD will still have a faster output than One World, mark my words.

>>51763362
Why is he doing that?

>>51763404
I was reading about it on SA. It sounds like Zak S has a like. Goon squad that follows him around online and harasses people and Hill got caught in it somehow. I'm a bit lax on details but I know Hill has gotten death threats surrounding it.

>>51763434
Ah, and Hill wants to drop out of even the relative spotlight of OPP publishing?
Damn. While he is insanely preachy on all non-WoD subjects he is a really competent writer, and lead designer.

>>51763471
This is simply one more step in the ascension of our lord and savior DaveB. Soon, he will have full control and Make CofD Great Again!

>>51763434

>Zak S

There is your problem.

Cunt also helped ruined any potential D&D 5e might have had to break away from its current 3.5e dicksucking state.

>>51763598

Sadly, RichT is still the owner and creative director of OPP.

While I've certainly disagreed with DavidH many times, he's no doubt a long-time, highly experienced and prolific WW author whose absence will be noticed.

I also doubt DaveB has much more room on his plate. Besides his real life, he's already developing Mage and Deviant, and writes for every other CofD line.

Also consider the possibility that DavidH's work might be largely picked-up by other notable WW freelancers like MattM, developer for Beast. You might not like DavidH, but there's a lot worse.

>>51763699
>Zak S
I've never heard of this apparent cock sucker before today, tell me more drama so I can hone my hate into a blade plz.

>>51763598
>lord and savior DaveB.

Praise the lord and pass the dice!

Amen.

Oh look, echochamber time on RPG.net.

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?798469-World-of-Darkness-Preludes-Masquerade-and-Ascension

>>51763722
He harassed a transgender writer, and s/he quit writing, and he apparently has legions of online harrassers and sockpuppets. All in all, the second shit is easy to ignore.

>>51763367
Then when does it?

>>51763722

He runs d&d sessions with porn stars and , acting as a voice of authority fir OSR abd 3.PF, generally shit in any kind of modern game design abd especially 'story ganes' as the OSR crowd likes to call them - this includes WoD/CofD.

WotC invited him to playtest with them behibd doors during 5e development. At the time we still had some interesting rules being used for noncasters. Those disappeared shortly after and were replaced by the current 3e style aberration we have now.

>>51763730

I would rather not, he will push his waifu splat to the point of discontinuing the ither lines. His bias is intense and disgusting.

>>51763750
What trans writer did he harass?

>>51763732
>http://failforward.co.uk/post/93348768153/how-dungeons-and-dragons-is-endorsing-the-darkest

>a thread defending the use of the word 'Jap’ in WW2 settings.

oh the humanity

I still hate Zak for being a dumb hipster piece of shit that the OSR can't stop worshiping for two seconds

>>51763817
>His bias is intense and disgusting

DaveB???

Are you confusing him with DavidH?

They are two very different Daves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF1chLj1fro

>>51763871
THat I don't know, the name hasn't been dropped and I can't find it anywhere other than it happened via blogpost.

>>51763781
When not used for sympathetic casting. Say you have a fistful of some dudes hair. He's running away but still in sensory range. You can use his hair as a +2 material sympathy yantra when you cast a spell to knock him out.

Or alternatively use your own hair, nails, blood, etc. as a material yantra when casting a spell on yourself.

>>51763877
>they’re part of the ‘Old School Rules’
>Pundit a couple of years ago. He’s a blogger operating out of The RPG Site, infamous for his paranoid rants about how outsiders are plotting to take over the hobby and destroy it.

This guy is right, fucking normalfags

>>51764036
>This guy is right, fucking normalfags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cmexEZGQbs

>>51763877
I don't get it.

What's wrong with defending the term "Jap" for a WW2 setting? Wasn't it common back then?

>>51763302
I hear all this shit about more video games and Netflix series, but to be honest I don't believe it'll actually happen for a fucking second. The only proof I've been presented with is one fanboy taking the word of Elricsson like he's some kind of prophet or something. Sure he SAID it, but that doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

>>51764105
Because nothing can reflect on the history. Everything that could be an offensive topic today must be whitewashed.

>Zak is now impersonating RPG.net admin Shandon Appelcine on reddit to defend himself from people trying to call his ass out, and that's probably, though not for certain, one of the saddest things he's done.

Fucked up if true

>>51764145

Isn't Elricsson a massive fucking vampfag?