Pathfinder General /pfg/

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Would Mirror of Opposition work on a god?
A Planeswalker?

>>51743984
... for winning an eating contest.
Although there were some opposing contestants that cried foul, since I was a half-giant and this was a halfling village.

In my defense I did eat the other three contestants amounts combined.

>>51744003

DR 5/fire would mean the enemy subtracts 5 points of damage off of all nonfire weapon attacks
Regen 5/fire means the enemy heals 5 points of damage per turn except their current HP restored this way won't exceed the amount of damage from fire they've previously taken

Guess which is less cumbersome

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I want to make a character that uses Armor Spikes, what's the best way to pull this off? No particular restrictions on 1pp or 3pp, this is more just a thought experiment.

Brawler or warpriest mite b cool since they can amp up my damage die. Should I use any weapons in tandem? Natural Attacks maybe?

Also if anyone has more pictures of pointy knights i'd appreciate it.

>>51744014
Technically yes; but a single action by the god or planeswalker, both of whom should be able to tell exactly what and how this thing works on sight, will end the thing because lol 6 damage (or 12 energy damage)

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>>51744014
>The duplicate has all the possessions and powers of its original (including magic).
Yes
>Planeswalker
fuck off you shit eating cockbite

>>51744045
>fire based weapon attacks
Like what senpai?

I am torn between two characters for Taldor Ascended. I need help deciding which because I only want to build one out.

The two options are:

Luck Thief Vigilante/Brutal Slayer Stalker, Luck Monday, founder of one of the Oppara Shadow Schools known as "The Lion's Den" that trained Lion Blades agents specifically for the purpose of long term espionage operation with the purpose of infiltration and disruption of foreign political structures.

Masked Performer Bard -> Bloatmage/Void Prophet Zealot, The Orb of Oppara, a massively fat man with the most beautiful singing voice in all of Avistan. He sings, dances, acts, does comedy, and plays the piano to a point it has made in an extraplanar sensation. He is also secretly a Lion's Blade agent reporting directly to Dominicus Rell.

It is a hard decision. Help me decide via a shitty poll.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12347103

>>51744045
Actually that's not exactly how regeneration works, but the idea is sound.

>>51744062
Torches, flaming swords, alchemist's fire.

>>51743897

He was a Cyran black ops soldier assigned to perform terror campaigns until he was hideously burned in the Day of Mourning, Harald lingered on in agony before a kindly friar who took him in and had him reborn into the Silver Flame.

I never got to play him beyond three sessions before the game fizzled out.

I'm still bitter.

>>51744048
Warpriest focus on grappling

Goddamnit /pfg/, you got me into the habit of reading through campaign applications for campaigns I don't care about.

>>51744115

But anon, that's exactly how you get better at writing applications!

Be the Borg, ASSIMILATE!

>>51743984
He beat down an arrogant merchant who'd been scamming most of the town in the middle of the town square. Hooray for murderhoboing.

>>51744088
When in doubt, always choose Jolly.

>>51744045
Of course, weapon attacks that deal fire are dealing energy damage and not subject to DR to begin with. In fact, a lightning, sonic, force, positive, negative, acid or cold damage weapon would all ignore that DR too entirely.

Even on a multitype weapon, such as Bludgeoning/Fire, DR/Fire would not apply, as the attacker uses the best applicable damage type; in this case as there's DR(doesn't matter what kind) but not Resistance to fire you're applying the fire.

In the case of Regen 5/Fire, what that *ACTUALLY* means is Fire shuts it down for a round. Your description is actually off; the shutdown causes the regen to flat out stop; making not only ALL damage a threat to it for a round, but making it possible for the thing to die; as, it's important to note; without shutting down regeneration, one can and WILL recover eventually, even from being ground into a tasty sauce!

>>51744126
I've actually only ever played games by invitation because I have a friend who likes forever DMing and networks me to other DMs. I think it might be a power thing.

I should try applying to a /pfg/ game someday though, I've never played a game where I didn't already know half the group and it sounds like a pretty neat experience.

>>51744090
>torches
the fire component ignores any and all DR to begin with
>flaming swords
the fire component ignores any and all DR to begin with
>alchemist's fire
the fire component ignores any and all DR to begin with

and the first two it's extra damage; the torch still has to deal with DR, your longsword still has to deal with DR. Just that even if it's dropped to 0, that 1d6 fire is rolled normally and applied to the target. Similarly if it had resist fire 20, your longsword would still do normal sword damage; the resist does not get to spill over into the physical damage.

>>51744090
>Torches, flaming swords, alchemist's fire.
That isn't how any of those weapons actually work, you realize that, right?

>>51744160

3.5 regeneration converts all damage to nonlethal. Troll restores 5 nonlethal damage per turn. Fire damage dealt to the troll is lethal.

>when you have a build/concept you want to play but slowly realize it just doesn't fit the game you're in

This is true pain

>>51743984
Two times stand out from an old campaign:

>We the party had to go to a rather distant island nation in an attempt to foster political relations with the help of our king's handmaiden (one of the PC's). After going through a rite of passage, we then managed to get the queen of this country married to the king.

>Some time later, we came across some strange occurrence where an entire district of our country was wiped out. We manage to dig far enough to realize a giant network of orbs capable of storing energy, exploited into spreading necromantic power. We try finding the Pope for some reason (I think to get to the bottom of this), and we discover the Pope's aspirations to become a lich. Cue a massive army of skeletons, us getting backed by old friends generic knight, generic priestess, ninja, and TwinGreatsword McEdgePaladin who's secretly a dragon, and we eventually kill the skellies with help from my Warpriest Channels.

The sad thing is that it ended in TPK, especially once I got into the swing for my Warpriest getting the idea of becoming the new pope.

>>51744014
>planeswalker
What, like anyone who can use plane shift? Because that's all the planeswalkers you're going to find in Pathfinder.

>>51744194
>>51744189
You do know that house rules supersede normal rules, right?

>>51744234
You need to explain how the rules work then, because as is your rules don't work with what you have stated thus far. Does a weapon that deals any amount of fire damage now bypass DR/fire?

What I'm saying is your houserules are bad and you should feel bad.

>>51744206
And in pathfinder, the regeneration's counter-type flat out turns it off, and it's impossible through racial/natural means of getting resistance or immunity to your regen-counter. This does mean a ring of fire resistance is HIGHLY prized by trolls though.

Like, for a regular troll, as long as one fire damage was dealt to its HP, then it recovers nothing next round and can die; even from otherwise 100% non-fire damage.

>>51744176
>I should try applying to a /pfg/ game someday though

You should apply to Taldor Ascendant!

>>51743984
>kingdom-building campaign, run in IRL
The most significant time was probably when he ended the bloodbath outside the palace by showing everyone the old king's head, letting 'em know that the rebels had already won.

>online campaign I ducked out of
Never. GM made it pretty clear we were going to remain nobodies, regardless of how any of us (to be fair, mostly just me) tried to connect with the world or its NPCs.

>>51744234
You do know that if you're making poorly designed house rules that serve no purpose you may as well play freeform, right?

>>51744286
>>51744176
Apply to Taldor Ascendant with an app that isn't a furry, blatant ERP, or 2hu.

>>51744282
Trolls got royally fucked in Pathfinder.

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So /pfg/, mind taking a look at this bit of homebrew? Comments are enabled for feedback.

Things that need to be changed: change most references of "lance" to "polearm or spear", that was just working text.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BzVePAShASR6_GFDDD258M_Wsiwn4fjBDq6PiIs-N2U/edit?usp=sharing

>>51744282
>>51744312
Not quite.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/raging-regeneration-combat/

doing my first gestalt build anybody know anything that synergizes with a strength magus? I know they're not amazing but it fits the kind of character i'm going for

>>51744384

scimitar

>>51744384
Not PoW stuff. Problem is that magus fucks over PoW choices because Spellstrike/Spell Combat doesn't work with strikes.

>>51744384
Magus unfortunately doesn't synergize well with much. Warder, focusing on boosts and counters, may serve you well. Rely on magus for offense and utility (what little utility the magus can do).

>>51744425
>>51744429
If you're going to use PoW don't focus on strikes. That's why Warder is about your only choice.

>>51744384
Could go with an Investigator.

>>51744384
Urban Barbarian might work, but I forget if its version of rage works for spells.
Slayer or Fighter would be pretty basic bitch, but a decent power-up.
Rogue could do some good, since it gets you a shitton of skill points and extra damage if you can keep a flanking buddy around.
And if you're not worried about being unarmed, maybe a Brawler or Monk.

>>51744384
Depends on what you want, do you want to focus on hitting things and full attacking? Or do you want to focus more on magic? Or is there something else got want? What sources can you use?

Does VMCing Barbarian bypass the alignment requirement? Silly question probably but I just want make sure.

>>51744489
Any VMC that doesn't say specifically that it needs a alignment bypasses it. These being oracles, paladins, monks, druids and clerics.

Man, I've been a 1pp-fag for so long that just looking at these Gestalt PoW builds makes me dizzy.

>>51744489
Yup! Go on and make that UMonk || Brutal Slayer VMC Barbarian.

>>51744478
any paizo is okay
mostly want to hit things very hard with a minor in spell strikes

>>51744510
Paladins require alignment, it is part of code of conduct.

>>51743937
>You pick a blast to ride
... Wait a fucking second. That's fucking amazing for them.

At WORST you can use ride the blast safely by simply giving up a single blast that you'll send to a new location.

Alright, some Shinesparking ideas: How do I max out range, if I'm not Air?

>>51744467
raw is seeming like it's a no on urban barbarians casting don't know about rai

Is there any way for me, 3pp or otherwise, to get Str to stealth or other dex skills?

>>51744541
Those are examples of alignment requirements.

Hey folks I wanna do a Strength/Int, half-elf Stalker (Vigilante/Bushi)//Panoply Savant Occultist gestalt build for a possible future game and need suggestions. Panoply Savant would be going for Trappings of the Warrior in order to get that sweet, delicious full BaB (Elf FCB and Panoply Savant results in something like 35 base Mental Focus by level 20, not counting intelligence or feats, which will allow me to get that full BaB with points left over)

I'm planning on swapping out one of the Stalker's disciplines for Riven Hourglass. Are there any other disciplines that synergize well with self-buffs? I'm planning on using a Nodachi (Ancestral Arms).

Any suggestions? Maneuvers, stances, feats (Power Attack, of course, but what else?) Focus Powers (Transmutation/Abjuration), and spells?

>>51744548

Take Extended Range and Extreme Range. You need Air's Reach if you want to max out your kinetic blast range.

>>51744528
Barbarian is your best bet since you can get pounce and some natural attacks to make full attacks, or war priest so you can get scaling damage with your one handed weapon.

Anyone ever played a monster campaign? I'm doing a zoo escapee campaign as a karumzek (basically a Norgorber-worshiping spider in a robe) alongside a hodag, a chimera, and a grimslake.

>>51744548
Extreme Range (you're paying for that travel eh?) is actually going to be better than the teleport talent would (50 + 5ft/lv from lightspeed or timeskip).

If you take Legendary 1's Distance Blasting (problem: that's a two feat chain) you can increase this to 720, although hitting anything that far away is at -24 under this feat, which means it's only good for transport.

Snake and dimension rippers are going to be your friends here.

>>51744566
I'll probably go barbarian
fits the character and i always put points in con anyway

Is Arcanist||UCMonk a decent-esque gestalt?

>>51744691
Why the fuck would you ever?

>>51744691
Well I mean, I suppose an Arcanist with a d10 hit die is decent.

>>51744721
why not?
punchy wizorc

>>51744766

>Key stats:
>Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha

>>51744691
You're basically just taking the stats from the UC Monk. Arcanist really needs all the int it can get, which means no Wis or Str for UMonk.

So what ARE some good things to gestalt with initiators, since it keeps being brought up?

>>51744858

My recommendation is always stuff like Occultist, Mesmerist, Bard, etc. Stuff that synergizes /well/ and gives you out-of-combat stuff to do.

>>51744858

Literally anything. /pfg/ likes to act like fucking Commoner||Warder gestalt isn't better than 75% of the classes in Pathfinder

God why does the Armorist have to be such a pile of shit, it can't even get Conductive on its bound weapons.

>>51744858
Dipping SoP incanter for a level with 0 bonus feats and all specialisations used is a real cheesy thing for free stuff.

>>51744858
Partial casters. Warpriest has all sorts of swift action buffs that'll keep you from using your boosts, but when that OD/ZS Warder||Warpriest hits you with a Rising Zenith Strike after a Divine Favor it's going to hurt.

>>51744885
Commoner||Warder is literally just a Warder.

a question, would maintaining a touch spell after casting but before discharge be impossible during rage? for example cast shocking grasp then rage then discharge

>>51744886
It endlessly disappoints.

>>51744858
Fucking anything, but consider the Aegis or Akashic classes: Initiators are quite active, so shit with tons of passive effects will keep you from going insane and also prevent swashbuckler syndromes

>>51744917
>Commoner||Warder is literally just a Warder.
That's the joke.

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>>51744521
Why does /pfg/ keep on crying when someone makes an optimized gestalt build, but then gushes over super strong builds that are full initiator + full caster (or half caster that synergizes so good with the full initiator)?

Like, look at >>51744563. That's pretty much 2hu build tier and nobody bats an eye.

>>51744948
>but then gushes over super strong builds that are full initiator + full caster
Literally nobody does this.

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>>51744948
>no one even bothers reading it
>"Why does /pfg/ gush over super strong builds?"
You ain't too smart, are ya?

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>>51744963
You're right, it's better to do full initiator + full spherecaster so you can cherry pick for total utility.

>>51744948

/pfg/ thinks every character should be capable of soloing APL+4 encounters or they're garbage

>>51744948
How is it 2hu build tier? This is the poster of that build btw. I just wanted to do it because it seemed neat to me and wanted to hear second opinions. I doubt it could be the most optimal thing I could do (that would be Zweisent//Investigator or Zweisent//Vizier, btw) mostly because of the action economy conflicts, but I still want to do it because it seems fun.

>>51744948
this is some quality bait my dude.

>>51744948
>you're the only one to respond to it
>"oh my god why is everyone sucking that guy's dick"

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>>51744993
>something literally no one says

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>>51744972
>>51745006
I'm talking about in general, not that one build in particular.

That's why I said "nobody bats an eye" to >>51744563

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>>51744948
>>51744977
>>51744993
>pretty much a 2hu build
>"muh full initiator+fullcaster" strawman
>being upset by something mixed with an Occultist of all things
>spherecasters are totally as broken as vancians

Damn the memes are piling up. I don't have the right reactions for this, where's the abstract and going all out ones?

>>51745028
>being upset by something mixed with an Occultist of all things

Uh, you know that occultists are one of the strongest half-casters, right?

If not THE strongest half-caster?

>>51745026
Nobody bats an eye at it because it's a single post with a dense format that nobody reads and instead just scrolls past, as opposed to 2hu's five post double spaced walls of text that are impossible to not notice.

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>>51745028
>spherecasters are totally as broken as vancians
Vancian is only stronger at, like, level 9 and higher.

Before then, even without bullshit from Conjuration/Destruction/Weather, Spheres is just as useful if not more so.

>>51744691
You would get more out of barb/arcanist d12 HD, high fort, Dr,and high bab for your rays and touch spells.

>>51745026
people tend to not read posts spanning massive lengths unless it happens enough times/consumes enough of the thread that it needs to be warranted.

nobody gave a shit about that build because it wasn't spanning four fucking fully filled anime-avatared walls of text.

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>>51745062
>Vancian is only stronger at, like, level 9 and higher.

>>51745088
It's true though.

Spheres can do some crazy shit, even without Conjuration/Destruction/Weather.

>>51744928
holding the charge doesn't require concentration so I think you can

>>51744858
Aegis, any full caster, unchained rogue if you want to use two handed dex and get lots of skills , anything with high bab if you have a medium bab and or want to get more attacks per round.

What makes someone an initiator anyways.

>>51745045
Does it actually have anything capable of shattering games, because unless you actually have somthing to back that up with I'm not inclined to believe it. "Can cheat full BAB by spending a bunch of resources" doesn't scream "gamebreakingly powerful".

>>51745177
2hu builds posted on /pfg/ don't have any full casting game shatterers either and yet /pfg/ shits all over them.

>>51745172

Levels in an overPoWered class or archetype

>>51745177
I'd argue that some of the Focus powers are on the strong side (namely Necro Servant, Servitor, Shadow Beast, and maybe Soul Puppet?) and can overshadow some other classes (Legacy Weapon and Aegis are essentially Sacred Weapon/Armor++ at an earlier level)

>>51745026
Let's take a look at this thread
>>51744331
>homebrew
- no response

>>51744384
>I'm new help
- lots of responses

>>51744489
>VMCing Barbarian
two responses

>>51744558
>how do I get str to stealth
no responses

>>51744563
>how do I optimise harder
no responses

There's no real link but people who don't know anything get only a bit of responses, and people who do know their stuff get a bit of help.

Conclusion; /pfg/ only helps out people when they're self-interested.

What's the most mundane gestalt someone could play while still being practical?

>>51745261
Fighter/Rogue. Slayer/Investigator.

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Hey, any anons here skilled in Latin?
Working on an NPC, a Paladin from a long line of soldiers and generals, and I need a good family motto.

How would translate the phrase "Trust in Determination and Dignity"

>>51745261

Fighter||Commoner

>>51745288
Determinatio in fide et dignitate

>>51745237
do YOU know how to get strength to stealth?
I don't, so I can't answer.

I also know nothing about the panoply savant, and honestly the occult classes other than the kineticist make my eyes just kinda slide off the page.

>>51745203
2hu rants in-depth with three pages worth of text about how to achieve MAXIMUM POSSIBLE NUMBERS via combining every potential thing, no matter how obscure, they could stack and then claims that is how it's MEANT to be "because it's possible". You are placing this on the same level as a dude saying he saw something cool and wondering if he missed something obvious.

You are becoming worse than the thing you are bitching about by virtue of crying wolf whenever someone is out walking their dog.

>>51745392
>they could stack
If they're different bonus types, they stack.

>>51745392
Yeah but when DHB did it we all had a good laugh. Autism Fighter represents a double standard.

>>51745288
Is that a command, or a statement like [we] trust in determination and dignity?

>>51745422
Because Autism Fighter is clearly not meant to actually be played. It's a level 20 character, and DHB makes slightly more reasonable characters when he makes them for games, including toning them down and understanding that the optimal choice is not necessarily the best choice.

Meanwhile, 2hu makes the characters he posts in threads and submits them to games.

>>51745440
A Command

>>51745457
...no?

2hu's submitted only one character to a /pfg/ game (RIP Molthune) and he never posted the same build to /pfg/.

Stop lying.

>>51745374
I hope I can trust you in this.

I've been spending the last hal hour in Google Translate, and its been weird

So real talk. Let's forget about what's "logical" or what you think /pfg/ believes.

In your personal opinion, if you were in charge of things, where would you draw the line between a reasonably optimized character who's good enough to contribute the group, and an over-optimized character that's going to hurt the game?

Personally I don't mind any level of optimization so long as I can see a clear roleplaying concept there and none of the choices taken hurt flavour.

>>51745492
Anything that 2hu doesn't do.

>>51745492
I don't establish "lines". I take everything on a case by case basis.

>>51745492
The problem is that flavor isn't a good metric. You can reskin a build as just about anything.

For me the line is when the character is unsurpassed at multiple niches. If you build a face I don't care if you've got +10,000 to all of your face skills, as well as charm/dominate person and whatever else stacked on there. If you build that character and he can also one-shot a CR+2 encounter then I think you've gone too far.

I also don't allow full casters.

>>51745492
To me, I can be fine with a lot of levels of optimization.

The problem arises when you have two people in the game of widely varying levels of optimization. So really, its a case-by-case situation that depends on where the average of the group is.

>>51745492
I would draw the line at the point where it greatly exceeded the party, when you invalidate the other players we have a problem, if you can lockpick a dc40 lock at level three and are acting as the groups lockpicker I don't see an issue.

>>51745492
There's too many moving pieces in a character to provide a good boundary for where optimization becomes unreasonable. That's why 2hu runs into so many problems when applying to /pfg/ games: he wants to know exactly where that line is so he can come a fraction of an inch shy of it. Really the best you could offer is a large set of benchmarks to demonstrate what is reasonable optimization and even that is going to vary based on group make-up, overlap of roles and the GM's whim.

>>51745410
Yes, and?

>>51745422
DHB presented it as maximum potential that no sane person would even bother with trying to bring to a game. It was shown because it was a clusterfuck of things that were completely legitimate in the rules, all because he wanted to have a good laugh at what the complete extreme of fighter optimization looked like.

2hu, meanwhile, doesn't understand differing opinions, or the concept of "not doing the impractical thing even though it makes the numbers go higher". Just like you can't comprehend the thought of "not bitching about 2hu, even when we've told you to fuck off for the millionth time"

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What's a good VMC for a Sacred Servant/Scaled Fist, if any?

>>51745483
it's not something horrible but it is a little bit off I don't have a better translation though

>>51745465
In honore pertinaciāque credite, if my highschool Latin is to be trusted.

>>51745559
While that may be find for something with as narrow a scope as lockpicking, other aspects of the game, especially the social aspects can still be a problem. Even if you're the face, a +40 bonus to diplomacy is going to be problematic when you get into a situation that the Paladin should talk the group out of instead for thematic reasons, but everybody just wants the guy with the unstoppable skill check to do it so the party can move on. That kind of over optimization can kill a player's chance to shine outside of his wheelhouse (in this case it probably would cost the Paladin's player a decent RP chance). Of course this is a matter not just of optimization, but also party dynamics and GM style too, but the over optimization certainly complicates the matter unnecessarily.

>>51745559
This, but I would add "greatly inferior" as well.
I've played with a full-asshole stormwind type, who would not only get vastly pissy at their character being useless while actually in game, but would take great offense at any suggestion towards improving said character at all, AND even to things like buffs.

As in
>look I can quick-cast flight on you, your turn's before theirs you can ta~
>STOP THAT! Stop telling me how to make my fucking character okay? I'm fucking useless! I hate this!

The upper end isn't the only place with outliers.

>>51745598
I usually default to Oracle for VMCs, there's usually something you can get out of that.

>>51745613
Grumio ancilam in culina delectat

>>51745422
DHB has a diverse cast of characters both mechanically and narratively. 2hu makes practically the same character, or tries to, for every game he applies to.

2hu does not have a sense of humor, DHB clearly does. It is a weird sense of humor, but it's there.

>>51745664
You too, huh?

>>51745623
Well you also have the option of the paladin getting a circumstance bonus from being the thematically appropriate person as well.

>>51745623
That's a problem with the idea of social aspects being judged by mechanical rules in Pathfinder though, not really with optimization. The paladin probably doesn't want to try to talk his way out of the situation either because his +8 isn't going to cut it and the inquisition agents are going to declare the party criminals because he wasn't good enough at his roll.

>>51745492
>Personally I don't mind any level of optimization so long as I can see a clear roleplaying concept there and none of the choices taken hurt flavour.
Would this mean you approve of DHB's character creation style. He has said himself that how he builds characters is via the following "flow":
>decides a mechanical concept he wants to optimize
>builds a mechanical framework
>builds a story around the framework

Ricktor Watt is a good example of this, all his flavor fit together, but still gave him a +60 to diplomacy. He even dropped a deific obedience because it wouldn't fit his character.

>>51745422
Autism Fighter represents exactly what makes 2hu and DHB different. 2hu looks at it and says "It's legal and the numbers are biggest, that's why I should play it." DHB looks at it and say "It's legal and the numbers are biggest, that's why it's ridiculous."

>>51745629
Oh yes, the question seemed to be geared towards upper optimization, not lower, if someone makes a blind paraplegic monk I would probably encourage them to rethink their character, or offer to help them remake a better character that would fit in the game powerwise and thematically if it was in a preexisting group.

>>51745629
I know one like that except she was also quick to tell you how your character was or wasn't allowed to feel about things as well.

Glad I'm not there anymore.

>>51745717
>>51745422
DHB confessed to having both played and used Autism Fighter as a villain in the past.

Hey

I want to play Jolly's Protean Prowler in an upcoming gestalt game, but I'm not sure what to gestalt with it. I was originally thinking Barbarian for maximum natural attack rip-and-tear, but it's starting to sound like the game is going to require some finesse and planning. Now I'm thinking I might need to bring more than "violently kill" to the table. Any thoughts on what I could gestalt with, or any other tips?

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/pfg/ help me compile a list of the bad ideas that new players love to build their characters around. So far the biggest offenders I can think of are blindness and multiple personalities.

>>51745717
But... 2hu wants SoM to be balanced and that's why he makes the builds to show how boring and spammy the best builds are? And suggests changes?

>>51745783
Seer Vizier.
Allows you a handful of toggle-type (they're passives but can be suppressed or dispelled temporarily) buffs that work for combat, but also an extensive amount of utilities like skill boosts and charm and the like.

>>51745787
- Memes
- Politics
- "Eh murders peopel and doesn't afraid of anything."
- Video games (especially Dark Souls, I've seen)

>>51745787
Sword and board, monk, fighter, heal bot,

>>51745787
My character is a demon trapped in a man's body.
Monstrous races that will get the party attacked on sight in pretty much any settlement.

>>51745787
>blindness
>multiple personalities
>being asian (while not knowing about asia)
>exploding
>being alone
>being an edgelord
>deafness

That being said I played a chinese themed blind/deaf demolitionist gangster in the past.

>>51745787
Animes.

>>51745650
None of the Mysteries sound thematic for Kurgess

>>51745783
>>51745809
Ahh, right, I forgot to mention. Not much 3pp allowed. I had to fight pretty hard to get Protean Prowler approved.

>>51745849
>My character is a demon trapped in a man's body.
Isn't DHB building a class based on this?

>>51745787
Rogues

>>51745787
AM DRIZZT

>>51745787
But I love blindness.

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>>51745849

>>51744305

Where does one apply for /pfg/ games?

>>51745865
There are ways to do it well, but no new player has ever discovered those ways.

>>51745911
Watch for links to roll 20 in the threads

>>51745879
Blindness is one of those conditions that is so debilitating that you're either an anchor to the party or have some magical bullshit way around it that makes you not handicapped in the least by it. Both of those options are complete bullshit, anon.

>>51745857
Battle for Iron Skin

>>51745885
>selfless man sacrifices his character over and over to enrich the party.jpg

>>51745859
uhhhhhh

Bard?

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>>51745717

Let me be clear: I deeply, utterly despise playing builds at the uppermost tiers of Pathfinder optimization.

I find it unsatisfying to play a fully optimized, Sacred Geometry-slinging, level 9+ samsaran wizard and managing that wizard's spell list.

However, if the GM allows samsaran wizards in a level 9+ campaign, and the GM also allows Sacred Geometry, then I am obligated to play one, because that is the kind of character that best hits the optimization ceiling allowed in the campaign.

>>51745885
>WIZARDRY

>>51745962
Why do you do things if they're not satisfying?

Oh wait, this is bait. Fuck off.

>>51745962
>because that is the kind of character that best hits the optimization ceiling allowed in the campaign.
And that's why you're complete shit and a cancer on this general.

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>>51745962

>>51745962
So you would play something you honestly do not enjoy to be hyper optimized.
This is why people do not want to play with you.

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>>51745988

Because I would be even more dissatisfied to play a character that is not at the optimization ceiling.

>>51745962
So, you prefer being at the ceiling of what's allowed for the campaign, then?

How do you instead feel about taking what would otherwise be subpar choices and optimizing the fuck out of them?

I mean like, making a Kineticist into one of the main damage dealers of the party, or getting great mileage out of a Cryptic or a tech user?

See I also like to optimize and run numbers, both for myself and other people in the party, but I personally tend to end up liking rather... subpar options otherwise, which kinda balances out.

What're the most debilitating drawbacks you could take? Or the most fun ones to play with?

>>51745962
>obligated to play a samsaran wizard with sacred geometry at 9+
>but I hate playing it

now that just don't add up, anon

>>51746026
>Most fun

I love Umbral Unmasking, even if it's super cheesy to use it for bonus traits.

>>51746026
I thought overprotective would rarely kick in and then my party made sure I found out otherwise.

Although in-character it's made for a pretty agreeable character; they know I've got their backs. And their fronts. But sometimes not the sides.

>>51745962
>then I am obligated to play one
No, you fucking aren't

>>51746026
Hedonistic is super fun because it gives you an excuse to describe your morning self-indulgent ritual.

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>>51746012

>How do you instead feel about taking what would otherwise be subpar choices and optimizing the fuck out of them?
This is a very interesting thought exercise. I generally prefer RPGs with much lower optimization ceilings than Pathfinder, so this would not be much different from what I actually prefer.

However, if this would be for an actual campaign, said campaign would have to limit character creation to those specific low-powered choices, and it would have to do so globally (i.e. for all players, not just for one player).

>>51746026
I like attached, especially when paired with a piece of gear you get from a trait, such as a prenerf heirloom weapon.

>>51746012
>How do you instead feel about taking what would otherwise be subpar choices and optimizing the fuck out of them?
This is what I like to do as well, take lesser (but most of the time more interesting to me) options and see what can be done to bring them up.

>>51746074
Doesn't even sound like a drawback, my characters does that anyway. This is why he brings his butt boy with him.

>only DC 20
Also my character passes this on a 4.

>>51746041
>>51746007
>>51745988
2hu just doesn't want to let the party down by being the weak link, anons.

>>51746082
>and it would have to do so globally
But then what's the fuck point when all the other players who can't optimize as well get fucked? That's the whole point in optimizing weaker choices, they let you be as strong as the choices regular people make while still scratching that optimization "make X as strong as possible" itch.

>>51746127

>tfw you always play a monk
>tfw you always have the worry you're not contributing in the back of your mind

>>51746108
>I feel the need to bring up my gay antipaladin and his eromenos (totally not ERP, promise) whenever possible
Fuck off, I'm talking about my morning tea habit.

>>51746011
Ah that's probably where the disconnect is.
Optimization is nice and all. But, applying it to something you won't enjoy... I mean, basically you're fucked either way right? Everyone ends up unhappy that way.

You're either playing something you thoroughly dislike because it's the only way to max things out, OR you play something you'd like but can't max it out and don't have fun.

Now I know the optimization 'instinct', for some people it just can't be helped. You *see* the numbers and options, which greatly increases the feeling of going full stormwind if you go for the less capable options. This seems to be the case with you, right?

So, chances are you'll lose less fun/enjoyment from optimizing something that in and of itself can't reach those heights.

Question: All optimization aside; and I mean ALL of it:
What class, thematically or just by feeling, makes you think "that is so cool"? What's your favorite; if optimization was not a factor in the choice (in other words if its ceiling was as high as a samsaran sacred geometry wizard or even higher you'd never want to play anything else)?

>>51746108
Is he a cute butt boy?

>>51746127
No, he just wants to make everyone else the weak link and doesn't understand that people despise this, even when told so.

>>51745492
"Can I understand if this works? If so, would I hand it in as a character to play in someone else's game?"

>>51745809
Is that the Mesmerist archetype or the DSP class?

>>51745598
Probably best to just keep your feats, unless you're something like Bard for extra skillstuff.

>>51746179
the DSP class.

>>51746165
>No, he just wants to make everyone else the weak link
You can't make others the weak link; only the players and the GM can do that.

>>51746209
that is the most naive fucking thing I've ever heard

>>51746082
That last part is where there's a problem, really. As you well know a lot of people aren't that good or simply don't care about optimizing. So, as much as a stormwind, a maximized character that's leaps and bounds above the others is dissonant to the rest of the party. That lowers enjoyment for everyone at the table; INCLUDING YOURSELF AND THE GM(unless you're a megalomaniac of course) when the others can't keep up. After all either things are too easy OR you're always forced to carry the whole team.

Probably that's the part you need to work on. Think of it as a virtual, rather than hard-rules, limitation for character creation: See (or at least try to guess as you see prototype sheets or hear people's pitches; you'll get a pretty clear idea of what they might be capable of when someone goes "I'm gonna be a core monk with paladin VMC and sacred geometry!") and take the average to be the ceiling. Choose your basic class/race/weapon from this average.

I say the average because you WILL proceed to max it out won't you? I'm no better either on that front, but that's why I go that way.

I don't think anyone here can do much to lower their optimization ability; some can actively choose not to do so while picking feats and the like, while others need to start with a lower range.

>>51745787
- Any 3pp class
- Transgender
- Kitsune (The Animu kind, and all animal ear characters for that matter)

>>51746165
Literally incorrect. He will actually suggest to other players - sometimes incessantly if not stopped - useful build options.

If he wanted to be more powerful than everyone else, he'd hardly hand out optimisation advice at a drop of a frilly hat.

>>51746204
Yeah that's going to be a no-go then. I'm starting to think I ought to accept that the character is a bit untenable for this kind of game. I can always shelve it and bring it back some day.

>>51745787
>trans anything
Because that should never be more than a footnote otherwise you're not writing a character you're writing a shitty afterschool special. You know what afterschool specials were for? RUINING YOUR FUCKING AFTERNOON. NO fucking beast wars or reboot for you, no, it's A VERY SPECIAL EPISODE OF BLOSSOM. BECAUSE FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY.

>exiting media character
That means you, xXSasukeSephiroth093Xx
At least make someone new whose story has not yet been told you know?

>Anything that requires massive asspull not to be shot on sight
Because holy fuck I said you're starting in a dwarven city why are you a fucking illithid.

>>51745787
To build AROUND? Here's some stuff.
>"Is an X", where X is an animal or a concept that turns them into a one-note idea rather than a character
>Memes of any sort
>Blindness (although not the "Blind" Oracle, since that actually functions by not being fully blind)
>Copying a pre-existing character in media
>Sexuality or Gender Identity (this is for if it's built around/centered completely as that for their concept; if their character is something like "is a hippy teacher druid dude that also happened to be a chick when they were a kid" and it's not the focus of their character but is merely an aspect to potentially explore, then it's perfectly-reasonable)

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>>51746142

That is why I would prefer it if all players were to optimize, and why I will gladly lend aid with optimization.

>>51746155

>But, applying it to something you won't enjoy
There is still some measure of entertainment to be gained, and that is enough for me.

>So, chances are you'll lose less fun/enjoyment from optimizing something that in and of itself can't reach those heights.
Of course. But again, the restriction must be imposed globally, upon all players. It is quite arbitrary for such a restriction to be placed only upon a single player.

>What class, thematically or just by feeling, makes you think "that is so cool"? What's your favorite; if optimization was not a factor in the choice (in other words if its ceiling was as high as a samsaran sacred geometry wizard or even higher you'd never want to play anything else)?
A character who has three or four (as opposed to 30+) extremely well-defined, yet extremely flexible "superpowers" that are applicable both in and out of combat, and that can be used at-will. Pathfinder is a terrible system for this, however.

>>51746246

Again, this is why I would like for other players to optimize as well, and why I will help them optimize.

It is easier to glean the optimization ceiling than an even more nebulous and difficult-to-define "average" or "middle ground."

>>51746261
>this
I know people like that. They're not bad people. They hate being useless but will work hard to ensure they're not - sometimes that annoys some of the party who didn't much care but now realizes they should have. They'll offer advice, hell they might even use their own WBL to offer/craft/lend backup weapons like splashes and grenades.

>>51746186
That's what I'm thinking right now. Even with bonus feats from monk, it's still pretty sparse, especially with level 1 going to Fey Foundling

>>51746339
I'm like this personally. I like to play characters that can hand out buffs or battlefield control to set the field for other players to work with because of that; Alchemists are one of my favorite choices, since they can hand out their buffs pregame and let everybody worry about their own bonuses.

>>51746336
What I was trying to explain that you didn't quite get is that there are global restrictions that aren't hardcoded. "unwritten rules/agreements" basically.

Ceiling rather than a nebulous "middle ground" is something I understand; but that's definitely where "a lower base" comes in handy. A lot of people can't or even won't optimize to your level. It's not necessarily bad; I mean if someone wants to use chakrams, they want to use chakrams. Charkrams can be made viable if not top-notch, right?

So use what the others are making to gauge yourself. "I would completely and utterly demolish anything a build starting with those parameters Player#3 has chosen if I make that wizard" means the wizard is no good. It's breaching the global restriction since chances are you won't want to take yourself down to "is evoker blaster fireballs all the time" levels.


As for your preferred class (that's not a class by the way!) ... hm... Have you taken a good look at the Avowed? Obviously it's not an identical match to your description, but handful of at-will abilities that are well defined... It's more 'flexibility' by virtue of being able to get a dozen abilities rather than ONE that does all the things, although the aether pulse system can be seen that way?

>>51746336
Would you ever be interested in helping DMs make encounters? Perhaps not "banging head so hard into the optimization ceiling that roofing material is my hair product", but more "I want to make my players sweat long enough for them to focus on working together".

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>>51746412

>"unwritten rules/agreements" basically.
If tabletop RPGs are all about following written, hard-coded strictures, then I fail to see why there should also be a thick tangle of non-written rules.

>but that's definitely where "a lower base" comes in handy
How does one even settle on "a lower base"? It is very difficult to figure out "the average," and so it is hard to determine what an appropriate "lower base" should be as well.

>"I would completely and utterly demolish anything a build starting with those parameters Player#3 has chosen if I make that wizard"
Or, I can try to uplift player #3's character.

>Have you taken a good look at the Avowed?
It is still a far cry from what I am looking for. It revolves around an ever-growing collection of minor abilities which are then assembled together... and worse, it is Charisma-based, and Charisma pales in comparison to Intelligence in Pathfinder unless ghost syrup, Leadership, and/or Altered Life and Unnatural Vitality are brought in.

>>51746445

In D&D 4e or a similar system, yes. In Pathfinder, I still help one particular GM construct encounters, but I am no better off than the average person in doing so due to encounter-building in Pathfinder being the most imprecise of sciences.

>>51746524
>If tabletop RPGs are all about following written, hard-coded strictures, then I fail to see why there should also be a thick tangle of non-written rules.
Because most ttrpgs are multiplayer experiences, and as with all things involving two or more humans there are things that are understood but not said.

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>>51746336
The thing about this, though, is if your extremely vague "global restriction" is enforced to force everything down to a level you're comfortable with, it's likely that John over there who wanted to play a sword and board sanctified slayer inquisitor, because he thinks it'd be fun, and he knows it'll probably be good enough for doing an AP, and he can get it running to at least an acceptable level with minimal work. But you're sitting there with your fully optimized Kineticist thinking about how /you/ could instead pull out a casting-focused Monster Tactician who could sweep most of the encounters without batting an eye, by virtue of being a summoner-lite.

Should John not be allowed to play inquisitor, solely because you could make something that you deem superior and/or broken? For arguments sake, you have managed to make your kineticist be on about the same level of functionality as John's Inquisitor, who's about as good as a sword and board could be without going full autism.

>>51746524
>If tabletop RPGs are all about following written, hard-coded strictures
They aren't. The rules are important certainly, and there can be many of them, but they are by far not "all about" following them.

>Or, I can try to uplift player #3's character.
And if they don't want to?

You still haven't answered anon's question about which class's theme/fluff/feel you like most, completely independently of any sort of mechanics.

>>51745787

The absolute classic thing you will always, ALWAYS find a new player doing is say, "I want to become a God!"

>>51746524
>If tabletop RPGs are all about following written, hard-coded strictures, then I fail to see why there should also be a thick tangle of non-written rules.
I'm not part of this conversation, but let me lay this part out for you.

The Unwritten rules of the game table are essentially as follows:
>Avoid bringing drama in. This includes creating drama. What happens outside the gametable stays outside.
>If you're a better optimizer than most, use it in a way that supports the rest of your party and that they're happy with, otherwise you go back to the Drama rule.
>Match the other players in terms of tone, consistency, and style; this makes the game flow better for everyone involved, as everybody is on basically the same level for all involved situations
>Understand the point where you've hit your limit for pushing other people. It might not necessarily be your limit, but other players might not be able to keep up.

These are important because games like Pathfinder are about enjoyment, not about rules. They have hard-coded rules because of the Wizards of the Coast approach to game design, but previous editions of Dungeons and Dragons (back when TSR and Gygax were the people behind this stuff) were more about the story and not so much about the mechanics.

The mechanics of the game are meant to be a vehicle for the story your gaming group is telling. It's why "winning" pathfinder is a bad thing, because you don't win a Story, just derail it, and it's why optimizing well beyond the party norm causes problems; those derailings cause drama, drama kills the fun for other players, and suddenly nobody is enjoying the experience, which is why people are there in the first place.

>>51745787
Rape, the woe is me kind of shit you see so many Half-Orcs and some Half-Elves do.

>>51746524
>In D&D 4e or a similar system, yes. In Pathfinder, ...
No worries then, man.

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>>51746524
>If tabletop RPGs are all about following written, hard-coded strictures, then I fail to see why there should also be a thick tangle of non-written rules.
Because its a game that requires social behaivior and interaction between multiple willing parties, each of whom have the same right to be there as you.

Tabletop RPGs are as much of a social gathering and experience as they are a game. IF you refuse to understrand the unwritten social and behaivoral obligations of the situation, then you forfeit your right to be allowed to participate in the game or be considered for continued play, as you have violated the social trust and contract on the interaction.

If you are unable to understand the importance and subtle minutia of engaging in such a social environment, or refuse to observe the various minute social mores of the gaming event, then you are considered as and branded as either an asshole or an autist, and as such you will be ostricized from the game due to your lack of social finesse and understanding. And if this occurs multiple times in a chronic fashion, then chances are you were never suited to engage in the hobby of tabletop rpgs to begin with.

If you cannot understand any of this, then I'm sorry, but you may legit have an actual social disorder, possibly somewhere on the Autism spectrum, and should look into reevaluating your life and obtaining counseling for the issue so you can improve your capacity to be a functional member of society.

I'm taking Martial Tradition for the large bastard sword. What's a fun exotic weapon I can use my second proficiency on? Doesn't need to be useful at all, just something interesting for roleplaying value.

>>51746693
>touhou has autism

what was you first clue, genius?

>>51746693
>but you may legit have an actual social disorder, possibly somewhere on the Autism spectrum
How new are you anon? 2hu is an actual, genuine autist, it is known.

>>51746633
OR "I want to kill the gods!"

>>51746707
I know he has autism, I'm just unaware if he himself realizes it or not

>>51746524
Actually, there *are* thick tangles of non-written rules. The reason is that unlike a computer RPG, a standard tabletop also involve a social compact. Yes, it's nebulous, yes, it can be annoying to wonder (especially with a new group) just what "don't break the game" really means... But that's an intrinsic part of dealing with other humans.

Think of it this way: Are there any hardcoded rules in the game against betraying the party? Hell there's even betrayal feats, right?

But... what happens when you *DO* turn on the party? When either the campaign ends because your character wiped them all out, or continues without your character because they killed and looted the traitor? What happens then?

>lower base
My own lack of good terminology, for that I apologize. By lower base I meant weaker overall classes and base options; as in class, race, fighting style.

"the average" I leave up to you; You can probably look at others character sheets and figure out their potential a lot faster than most people in here. If you quantify potential capabilities in a party by combining offensive, defensive and utility potential, you can probably then choose a 'base' whose own total potential is no higher than the party's median and work from there?

>avowed
Actually that's one of the reasons I suggested it. That's one of the things I mean by a 'lower base'. Charisma-based (or strength with the right feat) is, yes, inferior to Int.

BUT: That doesn't mean it cannot be optimized *from that starting point*, right? As an example, when I rolled one up a few weeks back, I decided to focus my offensive capabilities around the Barrage Pulse shape. I know damn well how inferior it is to Aether Rounds in terms of potential, but I still wanted to take it as far as it itself can go.

Just as much optimization work/time went into it, but with that 1/2elf avowed 'base', I didn't exactly have to worry about overshadowing the pouncing barbarian while also having far more utility than he.

>>51746751
>(or strength with the right feat)
Or Constitution! There's a feat for that now in the 2nd Avowed playtest.

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>>51746751
>social compact
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>51746524
You CAN try to uplift the other player's character but sometimes they want a certain theme or playstyle and that much can't be helped. Maybe you can help him make his bite attack sharkman or whatever he made the best that it can be though.

Of course sometimes people don't particularly want that advice or those particular modifications - and that you gotta live with and adjust for... up to a degree.

There's also the stormwind crowd which is your diametric opposite; those, well, they're problematic at the other end of the spectrum and deserve little respect.

>>51746703
>What's a fun exotic weapon I can use my second proficiency on?

Dueling Sword!

>>51746703
Bastard sword does Slashing. Let's cover your other types with one weapon! Flindbar, for Bludgeoning AND Piercing!

>>51746724
It worked for the klingons

>>51746850
I actually took Bastard Sword specifically because I wanted to take weapon versatility and it seemed like the most appropriate weapon for it.

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>>51746655
I hate that too. Basically all my tiefling and half-orc characters are the results of a loving relationship because of that; it's more fun to figure out how the characters dealt with the ostracism than "Where did mom get raped?"

Hello, Lorewipe-anon here again!
What Inner Sea settlement do you think would make a good "Spawn location" for new players?

>>51746877
IN THE MOUTH.
HE GRAPED HER IN THE MOUTH.

>>51746878
>What Inner Sea settlement do you think would make a good "Spawn location" for new players?

Almas, capital of Andoran!

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>>51743984
>When was the last time your character received positive public recognition for their deeds? For doing what?

My character became known as the Hero of Vaegar after driving off a horde of bog striders, finding their home, and exterminating them to make sure they'd never come back. When he and the party got back there was a festival in his honor, part of which included the townsfolk writing and singing a song about his deeds. (GM dubbed over Hero of Canton from Firefly. Whole night was one big goodfeel.)

>>51746703
F A L C A T A
A
L
C
A
T
A

>>51746877
>tfw I was thinking about a Half-Orc spiritualist
>he was born consensually, and it's the reason his grandfather's ghost is disgusted with him
>and also really angry but he was always like that
>half of downtime is spent trying to get his grandfather's axe exorcised so the old orc can finally move on and leave everyone alone, but this can obviously never succeed

>>51746897

The Grapist strikes again...

>>51746878
Bellis, a small lumber town on the Andoran-Taldor border.

>>51746923
>and it's the reason his grandfather's ghost is disgusted with him

Why do half-orc divine casters always have angry Orcish grandparents, and why does it never cease to be amusing?

I had a half-orc Ancestors Oracle in our Kingmaker campaign that was the same way, always hearing his grandpa bitch about how he wasn't raping or looting enough.

>>51746898
>>51746929
Both excellent suggestions!
Someone on the Lorewipe Discord's trying to suggest that I FORCE all players to start in one specific settlement.
Naturally, I won't do that. Instead, I'll just pick a settlement that it'll default to if you don't pick one.

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>>51746897
...He's going to WHAT them?

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Am I a faggot if I want to refluff a Nodachi into a fuckhuge curved sword like pic-related? What about refluffing a katana into a Shashka, even though Aldori Dueling Swords are supposedly already that? Is it less faggoty to ask about changing the Katana proficiency to Dueling Sword proficiency?

>>51746968

He's going to tie them to the radiator and grape them for decades and decades!

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>>51746249
>Transgender
A bit late to responding to this, but I feel the need to point something out.

When someone who's trans makes a transgender character, it is NOT a good thing unless they have a very specific thing in mind and are an extremely good roleplayer. The sort of person that creates that kind of character isn't even trying to be a self-insert. they're doing what I call adopting "badges".

Badges are meant as a way to make yourself seem interesting, and are basically just "look at me! Look at how interesting I am!". Tumblr culture has turned these into a good thing in the minds of some people, which is a serious problem, and the big reason why you encounter shit like this.

Trans folks that just play the gender they're presenting as? Those tend to be the good players, because they won't call attention to their condition (whatever kind of condition you think it to be). Leaves the drama outside the gametable, and it means the person in question is aware enough of themselves not to do that sort of idiotic shit, and it also means that they aren't attention seekers.

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>>51746980
>Is it less faggoty to ask about changing the Katana proficiency to Dueling Sword proficiency?

This, if you point out the Dueling Sword is essentially a (slightly weaker) Katana and you're doing it for fun than you'll probably get the green light from your DM.

It also means you're that much closer to Dueling Mastery, which is a pretty good feat for someone dedicated to the Dueling Sword!

>>51746960
>discord
Link that shit.
Also, consider Caliphas and Westcrown.

>>51746991
Now, see, I just...I think this is too much. I just--I think this is too much.

>>51746980
Katanas are Swiss Sabers
Nodachi is Kriegmesser

>>51746960
>Lorewipe Discord

There's a discord dedicated entirely to talking about Golarion lore?

... I need in on this.

>>51747024
https://discord.gg/hTZxEx8

>>51746980
People refluffing weapons are already part of some more RP heavy groups, if the gm is a ok with it then it's fine.

>>51747040
Not quite. Lorewipe is what I call my Pathfinder MMO-like project.

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How creepy should I play Rasputin through his images in Reign of Winter? Just basic super villain taunting or full on Resident-Sexual-Harasser-Who-Is-the-Brother-Of-The-CEO-Of-The-Company creepy?

>>51746926
>>51746968
>>51746991
>>51747030
Jesus, it's been ages since I've been reminded of this.

>>51747068
>Just basic super villain taunting or full on Resident-Sexual-Harasser-Who-Is-the-Brother-Of-The-CEO-Of-The-Company creepy?

More of the latter, really ham up the huge-dicked sex machine!

>>51747068
Best bet is to push it just a liiiiittle bit beyond your party's comfort zone. Enough to be creeped out, but not quite enough to be completely disgusting.

Once you find that upper limit, push it as hard as you can without crossing the line.

>>51747068
>>51747079
This should also be playing during his boss fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDMlk3kSYg

>>51746803
>You CAN try to uplift the other player's character but sometimes they want a certain theme or playstyle and that much can't be helped. Maybe you can help him make his bite attack sharkman or whatever he made the best that it can be though.

Full disclosure, I wanted to take a small sized 9 ringed broadsword instead of a small sanketsuon even though the 1st is subjectively less damaging.

The reasoning is because at level 6 I was going to roll 30d6+lots in sneak attack, extra damage and broken blade boosts/stances with a 9ringed broadsword but with a sanketsuon I'd have been rolling 3d8+27d6+lots instead.

That little quality of life of having all the damage dice be the same is totally worth the average 3 points of damage less per turn.

>>51747112

>He suddenly turns to the side-roll Reflex to duck

>>51747079
>>51747112

So when he uses Wave of Ecstasy he whips out his blessing and uses the following line, which I am proud of, to taunt PCs when they kill some of his female soldiers:

"Ah, such loyal soldiers and devoted mothers and daughters of this land. They gave me their lives, their bodies, their....love. Their sweat was sweet as milk and skin smooth as fresh snow. And now, they gave me their deaths. But worry not, before this I gave them something worth dying for, ehehehe...."

>>51747147
That made me cringe. So that means it's great.

>>51747147
Yes, that! That's perfect!

Have him hit on any female PCs too.

If I'm a Lore Warden and I take the Precise Treatment trait, do I get it as a class skill?

>>51747203
Nope, it doesn't say it becomes a class skill so it doesn't. Bring it up with your gm and they might give you the ok.

>>51747147
Aren't some of them undead?

>>51747165
>>51747169
Thanks. I pride myself on writing stuff like this. And just because I want to toot my own horn and see if anymore of my prepared stuff is good have a few more:

"Your prayers are for naught as your gods do not hear you here. But alas, many a woman of religion have knelt before me to receive communion. Perhaps you too can join our happy family...." as response to seeing a female cleric (if there is one) using channel energy or using spells.

Alternatively for males:
"You understand the power that comes from channeling a the holy words of a god. Join at my side against my mother and you too can harvest the fruits that the eager of this land offer for you...."

In response to finding the wounded soldiers in the barracks and meeting Dimitri:
"Poor frontovik. Left behind here to be bled and made mad by my disciples. Such a horrid fate. You (PCs) may call me a monster for this, but I would describe myself as utilitarian more so...."

Random taunts for female PCs
"Ah, you smell just like the women of my home village. A combination of roses, fresh forest scents.....and perhaps that of fish in the future...."

"The empress of Russia knelt before me and laid upon my lap. There is room for more now after her untimely demise."

And some unisex/male ones:

"His family now will be without food for the winter, his mother shall never hear of this tragic death in the Siberian wilderness and his brother will now forever have lost a half of himself. And you would call me a monster." after clearing more soldiers

"Do you hear those? Hooves riding towards you? Metal striking stone and mass crushing snow into ice? They come for you, my creations. I duly hope your death will come painfully." in response to patrols spotting them.

"The snow gathers on your shoulders, You seem so very cold in the harsh Siberian weather. Allow me to warm you." before flame striking them mid fight.

I have more, but these are the ones I am not sure of being good enough.

>>51747293
Yes.

>>51747380
Another suggestion might be to look at how Rasputin was portrayed in the Devil Summoner games, because he was a literal smarmbot there.

What are the pathfinder class tiers?

>Battlefield Surgeon is a religion trait
>The god is Zon-Kuthon
THIS MAKES SENSE BUT IT MAKES ME ANGRYYY.

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>>51746593

In this case, the GM should simply strictly enforce tier 3 classes, and ban the monster tactician, both summoners, and various flagrant options such as throwing shields, Fey Obedience (Magdh), and the like.

>>51746619

>You still haven't answered anon's question about which class's theme/fluff/feel you like most, completely independently of any sort of mechanics.
Probably the incanter. I like playing dedicated magic/psionic-types, and I like the freedom the incanter offers. The execution of the incanter, on the other hand, makes it a one-level class.

>>51746650

>If you're a better optimizer than most, use it in a way that supports the rest of your party and that they're happy with, otherwise you go back to the Drama rule.

This is what I already try to do.

>>51746693

If GMs are willing to establish hard-coded character creation rules, could they not also establish social rules for the table?

>>51746751

Betraying the party is generally a poor idea from a purely pragmatic perspective, because parties that cooperate are more efficient and capable of achieving in-game goals, which is exactly what optimization is supposed to provide.

>If you quantify potential capabilities in a party by combining offensive, defensive and utility potential, you can probably then choose a 'base' whose own total potential is no higher than the party's median and work from there?
This is an extremely imprecise science. The best one could possibly do is to gauge the highest tier the other players have brought out. Also, this is completely unviable in an application-based game, wherein one does not know what the other players will be playing.

>>51746803

>Maybe you can help him make his bite attack sharkman or whatever he made the best that it can be though.
This is indeed what I try to do, although I will certainly suggest other classes that fit the same overall theme.

>>51747532
>>51747555
Woop, shit, that's the wrong thing.

here's the real link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OG15EBUB1n4IEHl5GhzpV10hYqPkgtbfj4PIxZFh0E0/edit#gid=0

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Optional rule for sessions to make them more anime: when using Unarmed Strikes, Natural Attacks that at least do partially Blunt damage, weapons that at least do partially Blunt damage, or weapons that need to be wielded two-handed if used by a Medium creature, you can translate the damage you would have done directly into 5 ft/5 damage of bullrushing in a given direction. The movement your opponent moves does not provoke AOOs unless you have that feat that allows you to treat falling enemies as if they were subject to them.

If the person hit flies into a solid object like a wall they are dealt the usual amount of environmental damage that happens when the feats in-game do this (I believe that's 1d6 per 5 ft they were supposed to keep going?), but the same amount of damage is applied to the object, using your armor as a weapon for the purposes of overcoming hardness of the wall. If your armor has at least a +4 bonus it is treated as Adamantine like a weapon, and also deals bonus damage to the object like a weapon to the object.

If the damage is enough to break through the object the person continues moving for however much distance was not necessary to break the object.

>>51747555
It's too late, you can't hide it from us now

>>51747532
Tier 1 is things that can break the game with ease.
Tier 2 is things that can break the game at cost.
Tier 3 is things that have one great functions and a few good ones, or all good functions.
Tier 4 is things that have one great function and another decent one, or a few good functions.
Tier 5 is things that have one good to great function, full stop.
Tier 6 is things that have no good functions.

Tier 1 and 2 are the realm of full casters or 6th level casters that can get spells at earlier levels.
Tier 3 is the realm of 6th casters.
Tier 4 is the realm of 4th casters and most martials.
Tier 5 is the realm of the rest of the martials.
Tier 6 is the realm of NPC classes.

>>51747596
I play final Fantasy 14, you know my secret shame. Whatever shall I do.

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Should my character acquire a Pact with a Lightning Elemental after rescuing it from a wack-ass crystal prison, or after he dies out in the desert and the thing decides to fuse itself to his body.

Or should I do both, where the former leads to the latter?

I'm writing up a character that used to be a prisoner of Susurex, the Seath of Golarion (and almost as much of a bitch.)

>>51747567
I'm not saying it isn't an imprecise science. But it IS something one has to basically do. I suggested it in the fashion that I did because that's probably what would be easiest to understand or decipher for you.

But nevertheless, that *IS* the aspect you have to learn the most, I'd say.

As for applications; that's actually the easiest time to use this as the apps on roll20 generally include the sheet for weeks before the deadline.

>>51747610
... shame? but it was fun. Like, lots of fun. And one of the best solo-experiences I've had in an MMO in a long time.

You want some shame?

I play star trek online. A lot.

>>51747635
Sarcasm, my dude.

FF14 is definitely what more MMOs should be like, even if I'd have preferred it to have a real dodge mechanic system like GW2 or whatever.

These posts are pretty off topic, though. Not that /pfg/ is ever completely on topic, but we probably shouldn't contribute to the mess.

>>51747567
>If GMs are willing to establish hard-coded character creation rules, could they not also establish social rules for the table?
If you are a normally functioning human being, capable of empatheticaly understanding the basic ideas of proper cooperation and conduct amongst a group of people playing a game together that relies on social behaivior and cooperation, then you shouldn't need written rules since you can understand when and how not to act like a dick and over optimize by putting yourself in the shoes and mindframe of others, as well as understanding the mood and organic social feel of the party and situation.

Sadly, you appear to have a social disorder, and are unable to understand this basic organic and instance specific social situation that most other people would be able to innately figure out. I suggest you get psychological support and therapy, or at the very least stop being the outcast ruining the social experience for everyone and stop playing tabletop rpgs.

Seriously, the fact that you have to even ask these questions means you are an aberrant anomoly in this social structure, and you need to accept and understand that you are in the wrong here.

Seriously, get professional help, and I say this as someone who has aspergers and struggled with social cues and understanding social situations, but ended up myself gaining professional aide and support in understanding these basic human societal concepts

>>51747660
Okay, lemme help.

What's the best way to emulate Astrologian in PF?

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>>51747615

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>>51747685
I'm not sure you even can. Astrologians are a thing unto themselves; even just the shifting between Barriers and Healing is beyond what most games can pull off.

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>>51747677

I have already been attending weekly social skills therapy.

>>51747718
Hmm, well what about the flavor if not the exact abilities? Are there any harrow-flavored oracle archetypes?

>>51747580
I've been meaning to go through this tier chart and point out some stuff that would pull certain classes up a tier (i.e Panoplies for Occultists, the slow trickle of kineticist content from Paizo, Iron Caster fighter). Also, the Medium could foreseeably exist in all tiers between 2-5, depending on where in its career it is and which spirit is channeled (Hierophant and Archmage make it tier 2, Guardian and Marshal drop it to 5, it generally rests around tier 3-4)

Anyone got some character creation music they're willing to share? I need something to put me in the mood!

>>51747677
Chill bruh. They's doing what they can.

>>51747746
What kind of character are you making?

>tfw when you realize the map at one scale shows a region is 125 miles wide but the map at another scale shows it as 250 miles wide

>>51747727
Well don't give up on it. Things like the 'unwritten rules' we spoke of earlier are integral parts, even if not written as hard lines in the books, of gaming in general.

>>51747729
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/harrow-bloodline/

>>51747753

I'm just being a needy little faggot and making the character here >>51747615, a nomadic Osirioni (Yerbiran) enslaved to Susurex who rescues a little spark of an elemental from a crystal lattice prison, and during a botched escape he dies of exposure in the desert, the elemental shows up, and meat-puppets him back to life.

And then he goes on to aid in the defense of Sothis from Qadira, and this is where he winds up joining Taldor as a bodyguard, huntsman and peerless tracker.

>>51747727
Then keep doing it. You still need to work on understanding out to read mode of a situation, and eventually getting to being more easily to grasp the mutable and dynamicunwritten rules of social interaction and behaivior in groups of people.

As well as learning to objectively view situations outside of your own perspective, as well as learning how to use empathy to understand viewpoints and perspectives that are different and opposed to your own.

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>>51747741
>Iron Caster fighter
I'm not familiar with this one.

Also for the medium, one of the newer archetypes gives evil-possible mediums summon monster to fit their level, which helps.

>>51747793
I guess you could dual bloodline Harrow/Starsoul, but ehhh, I was hoping for something you could whip out with the Heavens mystery.

>>51747746

I personally like Thrice for when I want to chill out and write up a character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms8sWD4OJiw

>>51747813
Oh fuck I /completely/ forgot about that! Yeah, that will push evil mediums to solid tier 2 I believe!

Also, Iron Caster Fighter is essentially making use of Advanced Weapon Training and Martial Flexibility in order to get access to spell-like abilities if you have a magic weapon. There's a guide somewhere about it, but it's pretty neat.

>>51747567
I feel like it might be a good exercise for you to make an intentionally unoptimized character sometime.

Like, just do a straight, no-dips Incanter.

Why the fuck is Psychic tier 1

>>51747898
It's not? It should be tier 2.

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>>51747862

Really, this is no issue at all for me. I can do so for thought experiments just fine.

The issue is that an actual campaign tends to have no restrictions as obscure as "you must create an incanter, and said incanter must be single-classed."

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>>51747862
I agree with anon here.
See how far you can take it with your thematically favorite spheres. START with the not-yet-mechanical parts; like "I want geomancy" or "I want to summon a thousand fucking elves" or whatever it is that interests YOU in that regard.

THEN you apply your mechanical knowledge to getting the most out of those choices.

If you can learn to live with, even ENJOY taking something that interests you all the way instead of automatically crushing your hopes and dreams in favor of mechanical superiority, you'll definitely be on your way to happier gaming.

As an example: I like fucking lasers. That's how I discovered some of the bypasses and workarounds like the warsoul. There are so many ways of doing far more ranged damage for far less of a build, but I still get to do what needs to be done (one rounding equal CR), and I get to do it with the thing I WANTED to do it with, not just the thing I feel I HAVE to do it with.

Which is a lot more fun.

>>51747746
I've been listening to stuff by the doujin group stellatram recently.

Here's their latest album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEuiZDfX0T4&list=PLKQSvEEtzf4Nzr5138htC6E86I25Uzprv&index=1

I don't think any of it's been translated yet, though.

Can I get a quick rundown on the Mordant Spire?

>>51748112
No, not for a thought experiment. In an actual game. Challenge yourself to play what you WANT rather than what you feel obligated to.

>>51748215
Once upon a time the Moon had a goddess but the Aboleths killed her with a meteor and her corpse fell to the ground.

Now her soul is an ever-growing tower attempting to reach the afterlife, and she's inspired a cult of weird elves who only speak Atlantea- uh, Azlanti.

There's also this lich who's always harassing them for some reason.

>>51744014
An old planeswalker is equivalent to an epic level mythic wizard. A neowalker is a wizard of around 10 to 13th level.

>>51748371

I loved the Hyperprism MTG anthology books. Some of the stories in them treat Planeswalkers as eldritch horrors.

>>51748371
Weren't old planeswalkers closer to gods? They could create new planes and reshape existing ones to their whims.

>>51748272
You know, the Aboleth need a better solution to their problems than hitting it with a big rock.

>>51748400
I suggest a bigger rock.

>>51748400

Are you suggesting there's a better solution to a problem than bash it with a rock?

>>51748272

Tell me about the Elves.

Why do they wear the mask?

>>51748400
They're methodical, only progressing to more complex solutions once simpler ones have failed.

So far 'hit with rock' hasn't failed them.

>>51748400

1.) Azlant is getting uppity
2.) Thassilon is getting out of hand
3.) Total reset required
4.) Veiled Masters summon Problem Solver from the Diaspora
5.) Hero-Smith leads chosen few off the doomed continent before Problem Solver crashes
6.) Problem Solved
7.) Aroden fucks around for a thousand years
8.) ???
9.) PROPHET!

>>51748400
To be fair, it wasn't just a big rock. It managed to kill two gods when it came crashing down, and a piece of it turns people into more gods.

>>51748551

The God Rock only turns people into gods because it's smeared with god juice.

There's also a few God Rocks on the Moon, in case you're willing to wade through a couple billion demons.

>>51748551
Didn't it also contain Mhar?

>>51748395
>Weren't old planeswalkers closer to gods?
Depends if you think gods should have stats or not.
If yes, a epic (3.5 more than 20 levels) Mythic (the Paizo version) Wizard is as close to being a god as you can without actually being a god. You can probably do those things with an epic spell.
If no, gods shouldn't have stats, then no being can approach the gods unless it's another unstated being powered by DM says-so.

>>51748571

Nah, it literally was just a very, very big rock.

Mhar came to Golarion through the usual Old One way, but the stars weren't quite right and he came out stillborn.

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>>51748570
>wade through a couple billion demons
Sounds good to me.

>>51748400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQq6VR13Ls

Finally, an excuse to post Advent Rising.

>>51748612

I get the sense someone's going to get some mileage out of that clip come Starfinder.

>>51748439
two rocks?

>>51748638
YOU GO TOO FAR! YOU AM PLAY GODS!

>>51748638
Wait, wait, how about... Three rocks?

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>>51748690

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>>51748684
>heresy in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords

>>51748457
>Why do they wear the mask?

Because if you pulled it off it would be extremely painful... For you. They've got a Goddess of War in their spire which means they've always got the Fight Plan, and her constant growing means their Spire will always have the high ground, even from a certain point of view.

They are not good friends.

Damn, it's too bad Implement Mastery on the Occultist only benefits focus powers and not resonant powers, else they could have used it with the Trappings of the Warrior panoply to go to +21 BAB.

>>51748736
>they've always got the Fight Plan
The Fight Plan I filed with the Agency lists me, my men, Dr. Pavel here, BUT ONLY ONE, OF YOU.

>>51748570
>There's also a few God Rocks on the Moon
Is this extrapolation or truth? Cause I think I know a high level wizards next quest...

>>51748612
I wish that game was good...

>>51748880

It's totally the truth, the Wiki says so!

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>>51748215
>Can I get a quick rundown on the Mordant Spire?

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Now that we're near to a new thread;

Would you allow someone you know to be a sociopath in your game, provided they're a polite and well-controlled type?

>>51746948
Because it's something distant enough to be fantasy, but relatable enough to be funny. Everyone who's fortunate enough to have living grandparents or great-grandparents has at least one of them that is uncomfortably-vocal about something from their time as a youth; usually it's racism due to growing up or serving in a war, but sometimes it's things as simple as "you know back in my day I woulda slapped your lady-friend upside the head for complainin' about where we're eating today" or "the fuck is that pretty girl doin' in jeans like that?". It's recognizably something that can and does happen in real life families, but applied to a more fantastic element that comes with the territory of having a fantasy game.

Why it applies to half-orcs more than half-elves though, I've got no clue.

>Aasimar

I need sources of +X/Die damage buffs.
I know they're out there, like that kineticist ring that gives +1/die.

>>51748967

Oh, absolutely! Just because you're a sociopath doesn't mean you're an asshole.

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>>51748984