Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>51736752
None, his only friends are PCs and NPCs. Pretty dull guy, really.

Sneak attack with magic rays apply to all the rays or just one of them?

>>51737355
Any spell with an attack roll that does damage can apply sneak attack.

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What's your action music?

>>51737355
Sneak Attack applies to all attacks so long as the target is flatfooted, denied their Dexterity bonus to AC, and/or flanked.

>>51737355
>>51737372
It only applies to one of the ray attacks, just like it only applies one of the attacks during a full attack action.

>>51737382
Except against skeletons

>>51737391
Sounds like a houserule to me or there's a specific skeleton template because undead are totally vulnerable to Sneak Attack since undead traits no longer makes them immune to precision damage.

>>51737387
No, and no. You apply sneak attack damage every time you attack and meet the conditions. There is no 1/round limit.

>>51737411
>undead traits no longer makes them immune to precision damage
Huh
When did this even happen?

>>51737391
>>51737419
Not since 3.pf

That's a 3.5 rule.

>>51737377
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914

>>51737419
I know, right? It is a 3.5 thing, but for the longest time I could've sworn undead ignored precision damage in PF too.

>>51737387
That's only for surprise spells without attack rolls

>>51737421
Huh.
>>51737432
Yeah.
We played Carrion Crow with no precision damage.
It was awful.

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>>51736752
Xallis is never without Navia, his lovely eidolon assistant.

>>51737419
It makes sense, really. Taking a zombie down with a well timed headshot/decapitation is pretty iconic.

I suppose hitting a Skeleton in his spine will cause the whole thing to come apart.

Are there any ogre gods?
Do they have clerics?

>>51737626
Lamashtu mostly, and very, very few ogre clerics. If at all.

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>>51737641
Huh. Okay.
Are there APs/Modules that deal with Lamashtu, aside from RotRL?

>>51737657
Wasn't that Moonscar one something to do with Lamashtu?
Or was that just generic demons?

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>>51737700
The moonlanding was a demon trap

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>Group handed in their character sheets for our upcoming game.

>Three Good, one Lawful Neutral, and one Evil.

>Evil character is played by my best roleplayer, and is the nicest person to have at the table.

>He's built a Necromancer after being hooked on this group and its story. Pic related

>Really not sure about this, but dont want to tell him no. He's my best most cooperative player and always brings food to game nights, coaches new players to help them learn, and never argues over a roll.

>I've never dealt with evil characters before, I dont know how to handle them.

Help, what do I do.

Pathfinder is really good for dungeon-crawling murderhobo roleplaying, right?

Well what's the FARTHEST from "murderhobos" that a PF campaign has been for you? The most nonstandard usage of the system for a game?

>>51737807
It sounds like he knows what he's doing and requires no help to not become a problem. Evil party members can absolutely be done well and can make party interactions more interesting.

>>51737807
Clarify with him; you say he's a good roleplayer, so ask him if there's any risk that his character will be at odds with the group. Ask him if there's a chance it could turn to pvp because of his alignment.

Talking it over with him should alleviate your concerns. If you still feel iffy about it afterwards, present your position and he'll either have a way to make you feel better, or he'll understand when you ask him to shift to a different alignment.

>>51737807
Talk to him, make sure he is aware of your concerns, because despite what >>51737828 says, it's not the player themselves that are the issue, it's the player and how the other players react to him.
He is a great player. How is the REST of the group?

>>51737807
Talk to him about it.

>>51737807
as someone who was in a similar position as that player, i would've been perfectly fine playing a neutral character instead of an evil one if that was an option, but the game requires you to be evil to animate corpses (but you can be a holy caster while neutral??)
and after talking with my GM, it did indeed become an option and i took it

basically what i'm saying is: find out if he even wants to be evil. maybe he just wants to raise some zombies and throw skeletons at things with no desires of betrayal or grand schemes of conquest and carnage

>>51737807
Hole shit that thing's continues?
Can you post the rest of it?

>>51737891
I really don't get why necromancy is INSTANTLY, IRREDEEMABLY EVIL but goodboy magics can be cast by neutral characters without becoming good.

Are you gonna tell me the witch doctor in diablo 3 is evil because he can raise dead?
Or, hell, the necromancer in diablo 2?
They're both good heroes of mankind, yet in PF they'd be evil.

Like, what is it about animating a corpse that's so goddamn evil? Sure, ripping someone's soul out and forcing them to stay alive in horrible agony forever as an indentured servant is evil, but necromancy isn't the only school with terribly evil spells like that (phantasmal killer, transmute blood to acid, baleful polymorph, etc.) and animating corpses is the same as animating a bunch of swords, it's just the arcane energies at play are different. Disrespecting the dead isn't an evil act, same as respecting them isn't a good act. It might be chaotic if you raised them from a graveyard, but raising a bandit that was trying to murder you for coins? How's that evil? He's dead. His soul is resting in pieces in whatever hellscape he went to for being evil. His corpse is now just an object. Why's it alright to strip the dude of all possessions and use them/pawn them off, but it's not alright to use his body for magics?
I bet this is Gygax's fault.

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>>51736752
What are the best non-magic, non-religion traits? Best either in the sense of just being powerful OR in the sense of being really cool/flavorful.

I know there's a guide out there for traits, that "Tips and Traits" one, but it seems so out of date. Is there a more recent guide to traits anywhere?

>>51737956
Alignment autism is the worst sort of autism and it's an outdated feature that should've been deprecated long ago

>>51737828
>>51737861

I'll talk it over with him. Maybe /tg/ has warped my perception of evil characters and That Guys, and I just don't want conflict with this group, they're almost perfect, almost.

>>51737866

The player that would qualify as the biggest problem at my table is simply the guy with the biggest morals. He's easily squicked by descriptions of bloody sacrifice, and is a white knight to the core, even if his class isnt. Doesn't play paladins, but sees the game world in black/white.

>>51737891

He probably just wants to make skeletons, but the first time he causes a corpse to rise, I know our White Knight will throw an I.C. fit.

>>51737999
Sword Scion is a personal favourite of mine for being the only reason to ever be a dedicated longsword user. Barely. +1 on to-hit and CMB, basically for free just for using the weapon instead of something good.

>>51737956
It's setting caveats you are ignoring, anon.
>Are you gonna tell me the witch doctor in diablo 3 is evil because he can raise dead?
>Or, hell, the necromancer in diablo 2?
>They're both good heroes of mankind, yet in PF they'd be evil.
>Like, what is it about animating a corpse that's so goddamn evil?
Since you asked, this is the answer, that has been in place in every edition of D&D since day 1, and only in a handful of settings is ignored:
Undead are raised by replacing the essential energy of the soul with Negative Energy. By bringing more Negative Energy to the Material Plane, you are actively hastening it's eventual disintegration, ie the literal end of the world.
Positive Energy brought to the world by healing magic filters out of bodies and is processed back out, it doesn't actively stay or is trapped in the world like animated corpses.
Anon, the only thing you have shown is how ignorant of the underpinnings of the mechanics you are.

>>51737807
Talk to him and say you'd like to not have evil characters in the party, especially if there are good characters around, but that you're open to the idea of him playing a necromancer. Make a special order/group of necromancers who are neutral in respect to good/evil but have certain rules that must be followed, which includes restrictions against more overtly evil necromantic actions.

>>51738055
by this logic the ultimate evil act would be to open a portal to the negative energy plane

>>51738066
Is using a Sphere of Annhilation evil?

>>51738055
How come neutral clerics can choose to channel negative energy and not become evil then?

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>>51737892

http://www.drawyouradventure.com/archive.html

It's a neat pathfinder story, but it makes /tg/ start autisticly screaming in jealousy based on thread archives.

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>>51738093

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So the end of our last session was kind of weird. Our party (6 characters, level 6) all failed our Will saves to the song of an advanced harpy. The GM said she was only CR 5. Not even my character (aasimar elf paladin) made her save.

The harpy used her move actions to strip us of ALL our stuff, all of it, not a single thing left. Then she stuffed it all in our Handy Haversacks and flew away while still singing.

Now it's night and we're in the dead center of the fey-infested Backar Forest in Molthune. We were supposed to rescue some elven princess/noblewoman who got kidnapped by a tribe of evil advanced pixies and we still don't know where she is.

How screwed are we and what can we do to unscrew ourselves? We're a paladin (me), warpriest, mutation warrior fighter, esquire cavalier, battle host occultist, faceless enforcer vigilante. Yeah, we were kind of doing a "knights in full plate armor" game.

>>51738238
You posted this last thread
Honestly, Deus obviously does not Vult so you should try finding some people to loot equipment from.

>>51738238
As said when you posted that last time, talk with the DM.
You're all kinds of fucked if you don't find gear of any kind

>>51738238
fairly certain your GM is setting up something spicy here

or he's a complete asshole

either way just do your best to gear back up, do the mission at hand, and make a note to find that harpy and befriend her and get your stuff back peacefully after showing her to the true path of lawfulness and goodness

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>>51738281
How does one track down a harpy through the sky?

Rolled 3 (1d20)

>>51738281
They failed a DC 18. ALL of them failed a DC 18. At a certain point the DM might just take the chance to be an ass because you have to be pretty shit to basically get fucking onehit by a CR5.

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>>51738300
Survival

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>>51738093

>the Paladin and Evil Cleric both got supportive waifu cohorts

Why can't my GM be this based?

>>51738312
If Cirno can use say 400 Icicle Spears a round, what CR would she be?

>>51738302
Half the party has poor Will progression.

Rolled 8 (1d20)

>>51738328
And I rolled a 1 last time, a 3 this time. My luck is just trash isn't it?

>>51738326
9

>>51738326
theyre a reflex save DC 9 so maybe like CR 9 or so
shes deadly until you get a high enough reflex save to always succeed

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>>51738347
Nine is a big number right?

>>51738358
The biggest, the strongest and the best.

>>51738357
Now I'm imagining a high level fighter in full plate armor grazing hundreds of shots every round

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>>51738358
The biggest

>>51738357
>shes deadly until you get a high enough reflex save to always succeed
But a 1 always fails.
You would need enough dr to ignore the damage.

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>>51738312
Not against a flier.

>>51738066
Only if you were actively pulling it in thru the portal.
>>51738076
Because like positive energy, if disperses and exits the plane naturally.
Undead are trapped bastions of death energy that actively are hostile to life simply by existing.

>>51738238
Removing armor takes multiple full round actions, and while you can use two standards to replace a FRA, you can't use multiple moves to do so.
Similarly, Steal is a standard action, even if the opponent isn't resisting. Ergo, the harpy cannot steal your shit. As per http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m4jt?The-Harpys-Captivating-Song#19
The harpy needs to keep all her standards used to keep singing, and has at most two rounds worth of actions before you people get to smacking her.

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>>51738378
You might very well think so, I couldn't possibly comment

>>51738381
by that line of thought wouldn't living things be trapped bastions of positive energy

>>51738388
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/#Move_Actions

>Manipulate an Item

>Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action.

>This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat.

She could have been doing this.

>>51738399
Yes, they are.
They also die, souls and energy pass on from the material plane.
Undead do not natively die, they are there to stay until destroyed.

>>51738414
Except that removing armor is a very specific type of action:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/#TOC-Getting-Into-and-Out-of-Armor
A harpy's song does not specifically render the opponent helpless either, which means she must still do a Steal combat maneuver check or a Sleight of Hand check, and both are standards, even if the latter can be done as a move at a -20 penalty, the harpy doesn't make the DC 20 check to loosen an item and DC 30 to remove it under those conditions.
And as I recall, haversacks specifically allow the wearer to remove an item as a move action, not anyone else.

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>>51738566
>>51738414
So basically his DM fucked up bad?

>>51738093

I want to fuck that qt rock barbarian

>>51738427
so basically undead are magical cancer

>>51738566
A few problems there, maintaining captivating song, or hell even activating it, does not have an action associated with it, I would assume it is like bard song where it is free to maintain and standard to activate.
And when within five feet the person captivated can not resist attacks by the harpy well under the effects of captivation.

>>51738709
as are the people who want to play good necromancers, ohohohohoho

>>51737377

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCgYaUGdNA

>>51738566
>A harpy's song does not specifically render the opponent helpless either
>A victim within 5 feet of the harpy simply stands and offers no resistance to the harpy’s attacks.

They're helpless and can get CdGed.

Harpy can use move actions to manipulate an item.

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https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/4543188/

Who is this qt3.14 using Byakuren for a picture in Wrath of the Raunchy?

>>51738796
>using Byakuren for a picture
this kind of shit triggers me
at least go for something obscure if you're gonna do that
come on

>>51738598
Yeap
>>51738711
>>51738779
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m4jt?The-Harpys-Captivating-Song#19
Already linked it before. Standard to activate, RAI is standard to maintain and that the harpy can only get a free attack (not a CdG) on an adjacent target.

>>51737999

Whatchu looking for, senpai? My personal favorite is Know the Land, which gives you +1 Survival and Knowledge Nature.

Turns a Slayer into a scruffy woodsman!

>>51738709
No, cancer is self replicating.
Undead must be purposefully made by a willing creature. Doing so means you are actively and knowingly bringing in a living, constantly hostile embodiment of entropy into the world.
That is why it has almost always been an evil act to create undead, and negative energy actively hurts characters that aren't evil aligned.

>A harpy will never sing you a lulalby
>A kitsune will never literally charm you
>A dragon will never pretend to be a human just to be around you
>A succubus will never become good-aligned for you
I wonder if it's alright to make a character who's only ambition is to find a monstergirl wife

>>51738830
theres plenty of undead that create other undead by killing shit, anon

>>51738830
Undead create undead though. Shadows will create more shadows by killing shit.

>>51738841
>>51738852
Amazingly enough, they are always evil, aren't they?

>>51738830
Isn't the whole point of the planar battles that it's all literally infinite and no matter what us mortals do it won't affect shit in any meaningful way?
Creating undead is more akin to littering than to dumping toxic waste.

>>51738865
>Undead must be purposefully made by a willing creature
>But anon undead create other undead by just existing
>Yeah well but they're evil though
ok??

>>51738806
This RAI coming from JJ, do you actually trust him to know what he is talking about?

Say I'm going to play a sorcerer. Are there any practical "here is how to play" guides for one?

How do you deal with not having a spell that the party may need? Do you just get some mnemonic vestments?

>>51738831

Harpies are ugly, but the rest of those are literally side-missions you could do after suggesting you have history with one of those things.

>My character is a kindly soul that rescued a fox caught in a cruel hunter's trap
>Ever since, the fox has followed him around, and he always seems to notice the same beautiful woman in whatever settlement he goes to

The dragon one is equally easy, just say you want a squire or knightly partner and insinuate it would be super cool if she was actually a Dragon, as hinted at by her silver hair and deep purple eyes.

>>51738830
>entropy
This is retarded as fuck and I utterly detest the way fantasy throws around scientific terminology to seem more legitimate.
Entropy is an inherent fucking property of a system that measures disorder and "flatness" of the energy gradient. The mere fucking fact that you're bringing in energy from somewhere that "doesn't belong" implies you're locally [decreasing] entropy.

>>51738872
>Isn't the whole point of the planar battles that it's all literally infinite
The material plane is not infinite, anon, and even then, negative energy destabilizes the planar balance.
>>51738881
Evil creatures doing evil acts isn't something to crow about. The conversation was about necromancers, not shadows who create other shadows because they do by rote.
Even then, outside of "hurr, here is an example that shows one thing you said isn't 100% correct", what is the point?

>>51738852
>>51738841
If we're to believe the "undead are beacons of badboy energies and the anti-thesis of life and goodness" theory then how come a zombie making another zombie works
does that mean that all undead have miniature portals to the negative energy plane in their buttholes
do they perform negative energy mitosis real quck when they create new undead
how's that work then

>>51738830
>Undead must be purposefully made by a willing creature.
factually wrong.

>>51738906
>The material plane is not infinite
pretty sure some planar entity can just shit another one out when ours runs out

>>51738906
>negative energy destabilizes the planar balance
Just bring in more positive energy then? Shouldn't positive energy be equally bad if you're looking for a balance?

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>>51738898
>Harpies are ugly

>>51738911

I thought it was common knowledge that all Accursed Undead have the Darksign, which as you described is literally a portal into their bodies where entropic negative energy leaks out.

>>51738931
YEAH WELL
UH
POSITIVE ENERGY IS SO GOOD IT LEAVES ON IT'S OWN
YEAH
BUT NEGATIVE ENERGY IS NASTY AND BLACK AND STEALS YOUR TV AND FUCKS YOUR GIRL AND IT'S EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL

>>51738830
>That is why it has almost always been an evil act to create undead
False it depends on setting and type of undead.
>negative energy actively hurts characters that aren't evil aligned.
Negative energy actively hurts anything that is alive with a few exceptions.

>>51738865
>Amazingly enough, they are always evil, aren't they?
Not all self replicating undead are evil actually, but these exceptions are exceedingly rare, probably a fraction of a percentage.
>>51738951
Common knowledge is not always factual knowledge.

>>51738958
>Negative energy actively hurts anything that is alive with a few exceptions.
I'm pretty sure Negative Energy is baiscally annhilation energy. Isn't a SoA literally a hunk of concentrated NE?

>>51738951
wrong setting my man

>>51738900
Negative energy creates an entropic effect.
It is not "energy" in the conventional sense, it is the embodied absence of it.
>>51738912
Actually doesn't matter in this context, because the only creatures that create more undead were created in and of themselves, unless you can name a naturally occurring undead that self propagates?
>>51738926
Because it was so easy the first time?
>>51738931
How, anon? Let's disregard that bringing in more positive energy further offsets the balance of the other 6 prime forces that make up the world, leading to it's disruption.

>>51738891
It's not a matter of trust - JJ has said himself that he should not be taken as an authority on rules. If only SKR would say the same.

>>51738926

Why does the Prime Material have so much goddamn gold, anyway? Everywhere you look someone's carrying around a thousand pieces of the shiny stuff, and you get all sorts of things made out of solid gold or consuming gold that was produced in an era when gold was exceedingly rare.

Does Golarion regularly utilize the Plane of Earth to extract the infinite gold from an infinite plane?

Are there stable portals to the Plane of Earth that open up to veins of native gold the length and width of the continental United States? Because that sounds like the start of a Merchant campaign.

>>51738968
>SoA literally a hunk of concentrated NE
No it is a minor artifact, that is made of basically nothingness.

>>51738977
>Actually doesn't matter in this context, because the only creatures that create more undead were created in and of themselves, unless you can name a naturally occurring undead that self propagates?
That doesn't make any sense at all.

>>51738970

Why does a Japanese setting made five years ago have a better understanding of Western undead than a Western setting made and expanded annually since 2007?

>>51738985
Wizards can just shit out gold from nothingness with magic.

>>51738977
>negative energy is embodied absence of energy
anon i swear to fucking god i will slap you

>>51738985
>Are there stable portals to the Plane of Earth that open up to veins of native gold the length and width of the continental United States? Because that sounds like the start of a Merchant campaign.
That campaign will end with a TPK at the hands of a million elder earth elementals as soon as you mine any gold.

>>51738977
>It is not "energy" in the conventional sense, it is the embodied absence of it.
Yes and the absence of energy being introduced should simply make no difference. If you mean literally a negative amount of energy then first off it shouldn't be able to animate anything to begin with because negative energy mathematically acts wack as fuck, but secondly:
If I were to have a zone of uniform energy, then deleting energy via introduction of NE would sharply decrease entropy by introducing a harsh energy gradient. Just because it's reducing the total amount of energy doesn't mean shit.

Just admit it's fucking bullshit, because that's what it is. Fantasy shit that was meant to sound cool as fuck but doesn't make shit for sense if you stop to think about it.

>>51738997
>why does a Japanese setting have better understanding of Western undead than the West
You realize this is literally impossible right? Like it doesn't matter what they say, the western game could say that undead are MGE-tier titty monsters and they'd be right because well they're western.

>>51739026
I wonder if you can get friendly with Elder Earth elementals by bringing them rare metals

>>51738977
So why does dying on the negative energy plane turn you into an undead if it is the embodiment of nothingness?

Also let's not forget that spending too much time on the positive energy plane causes you to explode from exposure to it.

>>51739035
>You realize this is literally impossible right? Like it doesn't matter what they say, the western game could say that undead are MGE-tier titty monsters and they'd be right because well they're western.

How dumb are you anon?

>>51738998

Yeah, by utilizing magic connecting them to the Plane of Earth.

There's also the Philosopher's Stone I guess, which is a closed loop gold maker whereby the Alchemist makes a literal ton of gold, and uses a quarter of that to make another Philosopher's Stone ad infinitum.

But this discussion of precious metals is seriously triggering my Dwarf Fortress autism because now I want to start a mining operation in Golarion extracting magnetite and profiting off the pockets of platinum found within.

Oh, and bauxite, can't forget that. Maybe if you infuse some large rods with lightning Elementals you can produce the temperatures needed to extract the aluminum from bauxite. You know how rich you'd become?

>>51738811
Just a second trait to pick up with the Additional Traits feat, since I'm already considering taking it to gain Magical Knack. There's nothing else particular that I'm looking for, but if I do take it I'd like something better/more interesting than just a trait that gives a +1 bonus to one of my worse saves.

>>51739026

That literally happens in Saltspit, anon.

If you dig too greedily you attract the attention of Elementals, forcing you to either deal with Elemental attacks or slowing down your operation.

It's a FEATURE.

>>51739055
>How dumb are you anon?
Anon what the fuck do you mean by "western undead"? You mean your preconcieved notion of it, or do you mean what Westerners have done with undead? Westerners making undead is by definition western undead. Classical undead in the west have a bazillion different forms and half of them boil down to "the devil did it and it's magic so shut up" with zero explanation or discussion of how they work and the other half tend to be shit like ghouls or walking skellies (neither have an explanation) or ghosts (who are just lost spirits instead of rasied).

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Does your character have a nickname? Is it one you came up with or did it evolve during play? Does he like being called by his nickname?

>>51738893
guys?

>>51739055
Negative and Positive energy are just Death and Life, it's some convoluted bullshit they invented and tried to tie to other shit when it doesn't actually make sense.

How does Silksworn Occultist interact with panoplies?

>>51739085
I saw you but I don't really know, I always play Wizards.

>>51739076
What I mean are the stories about undead and other such creatures from western mythology.
But I suppose that may be beyond your understanding.

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>>51738093

>The evil group and the good group have been set up to cross paths and there will likely be a fight

>Not sure who I want to win

>>51739085
Pick the best wizard spells that you want to use multiple times a day and will want to cling onto for a very long time.
Or just play an Arcanist.

>>51739120
>doesn't get early access to spells.
>doesn't have the ability to just spam a spell when needed
I would prefer to stick with sorcerer if possible.

>>51739109
>I can't even fucking read
Anon those things from western mythology have very rarely had shit like a Darksign that somehow literally leaks nothingness, and my point is that they are so fucking varied in nature, cause, function, and mechanical this-is-how-they-appear that there is no fucking consistent version. Shit as basic as ghosts run the gamut from being just poor tortured souls too weak to do jack to being evil spectres of people escaped from Hell to being restless souls looking to finish something they didn't get to to being people beaming down from the afterlife to warn of impending danger to being ripped from people and enslaved to naturally just showing up in the presence of widespread death to literally being heralds of death. Skeletons are animated by evil wizards or animate themselves due to ambient death and sometimes even animate because they were too lively in life, and the way they're animated by wizards varies wildly from rituals to some sort of rune to infusing bits of soul and so on.
There is no fucking consistency to be found.

>>51739133
>doesn't have the ability to just spam a spell when needed
The arcanist entirely has this ability, what are you talking about?
They also can just pull spells from their book as a full round action and add it to spells known for purposes of casting.

>>51739133
Sorcerers can use Wizard spells so basically you should just pull the ones you think you'll need a lot early on and go from there.

>>51739147
>I don't understand that I am speaking to multiple people.

>>51739157
No, I don't understand, but even if I were speaking to multiple people it appears you still can't fucking read.

>>51739085
Google pathfinder sorcerer handbook.

>>51739148
Level 10 arcanest:
3/4/5th level spells prepared:
>3/2/1
3/4/5th level spells per day:
>4/4/2
Level 10 socerer:
3/4/5th level spells known:
>3/2/1
3/4/5th level spells per day:
>6/5/3

>>51739147
This just in: the west is many countries with different fables and myths, and is not actually just one big blob of lmaonoculture.

>>51739133
Early access to spells?
What?

>>51739178
Yes, that's my point.

>>51739184
A wizard gets 6th level spells at level 11. A sorcerer or arcanest needs to wait till level 12.

>>51739184
Arcanists get new spell levels at the same rate as a Sorcerer without also gaining the Sorcerer's more spells per level benefit.

Question for people who are better at pathfinder than me:

What is the highest charisma of something you can summon with planar binding?

What is the best set of defenses of something you can summon with planar binding? Vision counts too.

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Next campaign is coming up, and I'm doing a fetchling summoner. Does a summoner's summon monster ability require it to be the same alignment as the summoned monster (like the spell), or does it work with any alignment? Most of the fetchling's summon monster replacements are evil in one way or another, and I am not playing an evil character again.

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>75% of the thread is an argument about Negative Energy

>All because someone asked about playing an evil character

So whose paladin got shanked by a qt Necromancer?

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>>51739344
He got killed and raised as an undead

Alchemist 2, Wizard X for Tumor Familiar and Bonded Object.

Or can you have 2 familiars this way?

>>51739191
Eastern shit is also all over the place, unless you're assuming that only moonspeaker mythology is relevant. Would a western company making something using Eastern styles and Eastern mythology ALSO be "western"?

inb4 Avatar

>>51739372
Avatar is fucking trash tier as far as covering Eastern mythology t. Chink

>>51739344

Why am I such a sucker for silvery hair.

>>51739398
That's the joke

>>51739398
And most eastern companies do the same for anything resembling western myth or religion, usually having more with tv and movies than actual legends.
People suck, nws at 11.
>>51739344
>all because a player wants to be evil to raise undead
I've had some issues with players and their undead armies, once causing a tpk because the player was stupid.

>>51739475
>And most eastern companies do the same for anything resembling western myth or religion, usually having more with tv and movies than actual legends.
I don't think so honestly. Unless it's just a flat namedrop like Hercules or Medusa or something, or a monster based off that like the Scylla which has long stopped being the ten headed dog-octopus with vaguely human features thing it originally was, they tend to get more right than most western companies. I mean at least they'll get the actual elements right.

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>you were disinterested in that new Taldor game
>you actually read the post detailing the background
>a bit too "Taldor stronk humans stronk, silly Egypt can't do anything by itself, not!Europe the best remove kebab remove kebab" for your tastes but it is interesting otherwise
>you have to play human-looking races which is eh but ok
>it's gestalt and allows basically everything
>shit

I think I get the logic behind allowing gestalt but I really don't want to deal with it. If the GM wants people to be competent diplomats or spies without compromising other niches too much then they should just use houserules like "everyone can trat Diplomacy as class skill" or something.

>>51739501
Anon, look at the many, many properties that crib western religion poorly.
Look at most games that use western elements. They are almost always pop element representations from the last 40 years, not taken from their origins.
Elves, for example? Invariably Tolkien, who basically reinvented them, and D&D/Sword World.

>>51737807
A REALLY well played evil character will be doing evil FOR the party he considers his friends and family. What the alignment means is that when everyone's wondering what the fuck to do, he's getting the answers the old fashioned way; through soulsearching some hapless minion's corpse.

A well played evil character will help and appreciate the party; and knows well enough that his friends and family are "a bit too sensitive about these things" sometimes and so keeps it on the downlow; with an implicit agreement that the others don't ask too many questions as to where he got that thing.

The worst roleplayers always forget that evil people have things they love and cherish; I've known many people for whom the E on the character sheet quite literally stands for "I plan to betray, blackmail and stab the party in the back, and if your characters don't like it you're just metagaming assholes because we're in the same party you're supposed to accept me".

It sounds like this guy won't be That Guy. Just, make sure he's the party Scorpion Clansman, and not Kefka.

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I really, really want to join a gestalt game with a Panoply Savant (Trappings of the Warrior) Occultist// Stalker (Vigilante, Bushi) on the other side. His Abjuration Implement can be a gauntlet shaped like a buckler and his transmutation implement can be a katana his great grandfather forged when in Tian Xia!

In fact, pic-related might be a good start for a Str/Int Stalker//Occultist gestalt!

Any comments on mixing Vigilante Stalker and Bushi? And then gestalting it with a Panoply Savant Occultist?

>>51738074
creating one is, yes.

>>51738378
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/aerial-tracks/

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Onslaught Blast Questions
How does it interact with form infusions such as Walls? Can you make ten different 1/4-of-one-blast walls, as low as that might be? Does ricochet or chain count as "firing more blasts"? Do two frag recipients in proximity overlap a little (although there's saves)?

I'm out of punchgirls I haven't posted yet so have another harpy.

>>51739540
>Invariably Tolkien
This is a pretty nitpicky complaint. EVERYONE uses Tolkein elves or a variation thereof. Original postmed elves were basically fairies, while med elves survive as Alfs / Alves where they're referenced (and even then they were beautiful and magical and shit anyway, just not a hypernoble uberrace)

>not taken from their origins
Still kind of nitpicky. I mean, a succubus would literally teleport in while you were sleeping and rape your shit. Not very fun, you'd never see a succubus in the first place.
And at any rate again - they get the basics right, unlike Avatar.

>>51739618
Yes, because those basics are popularly used in exported media, and it forms the basis of what eastern devs use.

>>51739646
Anon can you find me some fantasy written in the past 40 or so years where Elves are actually the "original" version? The original elves in Norse mythology are basically minor gods; afterwards they were like, pixies or something, but sexy and nymph-like and tried to fuck you and hurt you after; after that they were basically just mystical fairyfolk, and after that it's Tolkein.

>>51739475
>>51739501

>Grtting mad at human beings using old stories your culture doesn't care about as cannon fodder for media

It's 2017, you shouldn't care about King Arthur or stuff like that.

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>all this shit started because someone said Dark Souls was a better Western Fantasy than a homebrew setting for a D&D knockoff made by westerners

he wasn't even wrong

>>51739671
Anon, you are focusing on elves.
Do you want to use vampires? Werewolves? There is a long list of shit that you are ignoring for the low hanging fruit.
Regardless, I am combating the assertion that "they get the basics" when the "basics" are fucking everywhere (and they still get it wrong sometimes, shit like Bloodborne is the exception, not the rule).

So, unchained barbarian now doesn't lose their powers, if they become lawful? So now there is no "Ex-barbarians"?

>>51739527
The GM specifically wants to test out mid-level gestalt, anon. Sorry that's not your cuppa.

>>51739527
>a bit too "Taldor stronk humans stronk, silly Egypt can't do anything by itself, not!Europe the best remove kebab remove kebab" for your tastes but it is interesting otherwise

How so? It's well-known that Osirion only broke away from the Keleshite Empire through trickery and subterfuge, and it's also well known that Qadira yearns to reignite conflict with Taldor because the current Shah is a warmonger.

>>51739527
At least it's not the DEUS VULT gonna rape all the brown women everyone gotta be a man for extra REMOVE MATRIARCHY mess that the last Qadira game was.

Baby steps.

>>51737807
Evil doesn't necessarily mean lacking in teamwork. Even Chaotic Evil characters have people they care about and can function in normal society, albeit in a scummy or parasitic way. So long as they aren't something like a Cleric or an Antipaladin, a chaotic evil character can live their life normally with only hints or the occasional lapse of self-control revealing their true natures. One such example given in Golarion Canon is the owner of a brothel in the Linnorm Kingdoms; she pays her girls well and treats them kindly, but is petty, vindictive, holds a huge amount of grudges, robs from her customers (but not enough for them to immediately notice), and constantly tries to ruin her rival's own business through property damage and theft. Another example is that of a stereotypical viking; they care for their crew and shipmates, and follow a code of honor unique to their society, but they are very willing and even eager to attack defenseless villages, rob or kidnap people, kill those they disagree with, and treat non-vikings as non-persons.

>>51739701
Anon I mean "basic" like the four fucking elements or that medusae have petrifying eyes. You know, shit that Avatar explicitly failed to do. Think about how many western shows talk about channeling yin or yang or call the five changes "elements".

>vampires
The definition of a vampire is all over the place depending on when you go for.
>werewolves
Similar, but then again shapeshifters are pretty common in mythology period.

Like you can argue that they rarely follow the actual rules but the thing is, the pale blood drinker vampire dates from the 1800s anyway - the red-faced essence drinker version is older but the pale one isn't somehow not legit, being 200 years old, even if it's younger than the concept of a Romanian strigoi.

>>51739362
>Tumor
What if he takes, alchemist 2, Eldritch Guardian 1, Wizard 1.
3 Familiars?

>>51739783
I like the hopping vampires.

>>51739810
And see that's actually something you can argue is not legit, because Jiangshi only became vampires when Hong Kong took them over and basically just made them Hungry Ghosts with a body.

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>>51739773
>you will never play in an all Qadiran game where you can only play as nomadic female brown qts that rape and pillage Taldan settlements

Why even exist in this baryonic realm?

>>51739846
Please stop.

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>>51739846

You could make a nomadic female brown qt from Taldor that enjoys picking up cute Taldan boys at every settlement they visit!

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>>51739828
at least it's hungry and not spooky ghosts

>>51739527
Gestalt is pretty garbage; yeah. Gestalt only works in 2, maybe 3 player games.

Each player in a 4+ player group needs a weakness that other players to create an interesting dynamic.

>>51739859
Remember where you are anon. And then realize that nothing will ever stop here, despite your feeble pleas.

Never.

>>51739902
So kinda like entropy, right?

>It's a first level party member has 25 AC game

>>51739864
There's actually a pretty obscure and local as fuck type of chink demon that's essentially the thirstiest wraith you've ever seen
It basically goes, so if enough virgins who are of age (i.e. menstruating) die in one place in one day (something like 10 000), or if a virgin dies naturally during her wedding proper, then you get this really angry wraith. Angry about being denied the dick, or technically angry about being denied cum - virgin females have an overload of Yin, and the purest form of Yang is cum. So basically you get a physical manisfestation of a ghost whose sole goal in life is to eat cum - except, being incorperal, she can't, so she's basically doomed to be fucking people to death forever.
So yeah.

>>51739609
I got a better one for you:
What happens if you split your blasts with Ride the Blast?

>Two applicants for the Taldor Ascendant campaign
>One is a Literal Furry and the other hardly uses the lore material at all

How hard is it to read a wiki page for maybe 30 minutes?

>>51739991
Gotta say, I'm curious which one of y'all posted the furry.

Anybody have experience with kobold press's trickster class?

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>>51740017

>mfw I'm not butthurt at the furry being a furry
>mfw I'm butthurt that the furry didn't use the Witchwolf Skinwalker like a proper dork

>>51739773
demonstrate an example of what you described.

>>51740026
>I'm not butthurt at the furry being a furry
Halt ye and remove thine own LYFE

>>51739990
Hope you targeted them all on the same guy or we're going to have a mess?

>"I found blast #37... big toe, left foot, with some skin"

>"#18 is nothing but pubes and a nipple"

>>51739846

Funny you should mention that, because in the campaign backstory Qadira tried to invade Osirion, but was pushed back by a combined Osirion/Taldan force.

Osirion has nomadic tribes in the interior of their desert, many of them very qt and very brown.

>>51740034
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51401329/#q51402406

>>51740035

Like the furry is going to stop being a furry because it makes you angry.

>>51740070
The first step towards becoming a new furry is to stop feeling disgust at their existence

>>51740035

I have a strong tolerance for fetish bullshit - as long as the player demonstrates an understanding of the lore and writes the character in such a way where everything makes sense, than I'd usually deal with it.

But what I don't and won't deal with is someone shoving their fetish into a campaign without actually offering an explanation how that even works. The furry applicant claims his character is from a recently discovered tribe of werewolves in the far south, problem is we've already got the product of werewolf/human relations and they're called Skinwalkers.

>>51740063
>7 hours from now
So did he ever get any players or what?

>>51740022
Whenever the Trickster is mentioned here it's pretty much always followed up by a recommendation to use Ertw's Beguiler instead. That's pretty much all I know about the class.

>>51740094
It doesn't matter anyway, 'cause the GM said nothing nonhuman when 2hu tried to play a succubus.

Furshit dude's application is literally just wasted time.

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>Susurex, the self-styled Crystal King, is an adult blue dragon who has made the Glazen Sheets region in the Osirian Desert his solitary domain. Susurex has dedicated his life to researching the mysterious origins of the region. He established his lair in a crystalline formation as large as a castle that rises in the center of the Glazen Sheets. The dragon has enslaved hundreds of poor Yerbira and unsuspecting caravaneers, who now toil within and beneath the crystalline tower. Susurex's experiments aim to help him uncover the nature of Glazen Sheets. He believes that such knowledge would enable him to bring the whole of Osirion under his control, with the threat to apply the same process throughout the land

So....what are the best ways to use polymorph any object to permanently enhance yourself?

>>51740341
Well, say you're a bog standard human wizard.

if you polymorph any object yourself into a half-dragon, it ticks all the boxes for making you into one permanently.

then you can do it again and permanently turn yourself into a real dragon.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1112263

I need some help building a Stalker/Occultist gestalt. I can't find a good character sheet to use for it. Can someone look over this sheet and make sure it hasn't got any glaring mistakes? I'm not sure about the Health total (Level 4, d8 hitdie, average of 4.5, Con mod +2, should it be 24 or did I screw up somewhere?).

Any help is appreciated

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>You will never follow in the footsteps of Aroden and become a swordsman-blacksmith leading your people to glory everlasting

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>feel inspired from someone's shitpost to try making "alternate reality" versions of some of my characters
>mfw more than half of these are flipped from Dex/Int to Str/Cha
>mfw realizing all the alternate versions of my characters all end up looking like more fun than what I'm actually playing

well shit

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>>51740516

>Local loli realizes Strength/Charisma is, in fact, more fun than Dex/Int.

>>51740536
Por que no lo Str/Wis? Con/Dex?

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>>51740536
>realization that fire emblem was trying to tell me something with the Mercenaries all practically soloing the game for me

I should be playing buff dudes with a tendency towards wisdom and leadership, but instead I'm playing all these skinny sperglords.

>>51740112
>2hu succubus
How would this even work?

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>>51740596

>>51739931
And can do what else?

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Anyone with experience with Kingmaker know how often enemies have DR? Was thinking about taking Penetrating Strike down the line but I don't know if it'll be worth it or not.

>>51740683
>taking penetrating strike

just get a better sword nigga, the only DR that matters is DR/-, which penetrating strike won't help against unless you blow two feats.

>>51740683
C L U S T E R E D S H O T

>>51738388
Maybe DM went for Harpy-Stealing-Shit-While-Singing thing despite knowing that rules say otherwise.
If so, he probably tries to get his player out of comfort boxes(cans?) and make them worry for once.

>>51740536
Str/Int is in fact the best because you get skill points to fuck around with and justification for all your heedless strategies.

>>51740536
>>51740943
>Not joining the Dex/Cha master race

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Finally
Rules for proper ERP

>>51740683
>Anyone with experience with Kingmaker know how often enemies have DR?

99% of your enemies will have vulnerability to Cold Iron.

Just get a Cold Iron weapon and have fun!

>>51740505
That's gonna be my Ironfang Invasion character actually.

Wish craft weapons wasn't so shit. I should really be able to make magic arms by default when I get past the basic hurdle of mundane creating.

so, a new player asked me to summarize the pf casters, "what makes it special, what "cool stuff" you can do with it and how easy to play is it"

i.e. "the wizard is the "purest" kind of spellcaster and is just made out of pure arcane power, imagine having a horde of ogres that normally could squish your entire team, bound up and tied down by several layers of your spells, the only difficult parts to it is to traverse it's large spell list and keep track of what spells you know have have prepared"

however, i have personally not played most caster classes so i can't really do it for the rest of the classes, could anyone that has make some summaries for the classes that they have played?

>>51741009

Depending on the person running the campaign, you could Mother May I into getting the Artisan class, which makes mundane creating both fun and easy!

Hell, by level 9 you get an Artisan's Technique called World Forger, which allows you to make a Craft check and build anything instantly.

Anything.

As in, touch a quarry full of marble and instantly build a mansion.

>>51741070
That's kind of a shitty description of wizard. Wizard isn't "made" out of anything, they just STUDY magic.

What's the best way to contact N Jolly?

I must plead my case to him about something important regarding SoM.

>>51741144
GiTP SoM playtest thread probably

(Are you touhouanon)

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Where were you when pfsrd was well and truly dead?

I just tried to look up Custom Weapons, and discovered the Weapons page doesn't even exist anymore.

>>51741003
99%? Fey are gonna pop up that often? I'm not so sure considering one of us befriended a few a couple sessions back. Then again that was only a few...

>>51738831
>>A dragon will never pretend to be a human just to be around you
>tfw I could've had this but I pussied out

>>51741181
There's still a mirror of the old one until they stop fucking up.

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>>51741186

Friend, I'm deadly serious when I say it's a smart idea to get a Cold Iron weapon.

>>51741197

I tried using the mirror, it didn't have the page either.

>>51741194

I smell a story!

>>51741201
Not really a story, my Avowed pacted with a baby dragon and I could've taken a Silver Dragon so he could transform into a little kid for, y'know, blending in. At first I thought it'd be cute but then I was worried everyone in my group would think I'm a fucking weirdo.

>>51741163

Thankfully, I am not 2hu. You don't have to like 2hu, or even acknowledge their existence at all if you don't want.

But, please don't wish badly upon them. They didn't pick their autism off a shelf.

>>51741287
Did you know it's possible to be autistic and not be an asshole? It's true!

>>51741306
Did you know it's possible to not be autistic and to be an asshole? It's true!

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Do you guys think it would be unreasonable to design a custom spear that does 2d6 damage along with all the abilities of a typical Longspear?

All of my first level PCs have 20+ AC, wat do

>>51741287
>ask a simple question
>assuming I'm wishing badly on them

Maybe you're the one with a few misassumptions.

>>51741336
It is! But Anon basically just asked if you were 2hu and you started attacking him in defense of a guy who shits up this thread because he hates the system!

>>51741378
Nah that was someone else. I'm just sick of hearing people bitch about him every single thread. I see 2hu post a three-post build every couple of threads but the constant bitching and moaning about 2hu disrupts nearly every thread.

>>51741350
Stop being a shitter.

>>51741350
Hit them with sleep spells until they learn their lesson.

>>51741344
...what makes it special then

>>51741350
throw some will saves at them

>>51741350
Magic, traps, Sunder, other combat manuevers, skill challenges

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>>51741359
>>51741378

I apologize, I have a bad habit of not stating my tangents of thought at all.

That was less an attack and missassumption directed at one anon, and more as a plea to /pfg/ in general, because I've seen a lot of bad things said about them. I'm sorry if I sounded like an asshole.

I would very much like if we could all simply forget about 2hu's existence. As amother anon stated, such discussions take up way too much space in the thread, and I am already at fault for feeding the flames of a new unconstructive discussion. I take responsibility for that, and I'm ready to talk about stupid cute anime shit with you guys.

... I-if you'll have me?

I just did some economics:

>Wall of stone creates a 5ft * 5ft * rounddown(CL/4)in * CL volume of iron
>Iron is 1 sp per pound
>iron has a density of .284 lb/in^3

So when a level 12 sorcerer casts wall of iron, he makes 3680.6 GP.

Now...just walls of iron aren't that useful, but one casting of fabricate should let you turn it into something valuable.

>>51738954
Yes, and no.

Positive Energy is Life Energy, But it is NOT inherently Good. In fact, the only PosEnergy Plane dwellers we've seen so far are Lawful Evil.

>>51741406
I wouldn't want to play in a game with 2hu, but what he's doing here IS a genuine help to the spheres of might playtest.

Sure, it allows for a bunch of fun, flexible options while also enabling the chance of hyperfocused killer builds - but that's exactly what Path of War does too, and look at how much shit it gets for 'holy fuck look at how destructive this specific optimized build is'.

Maybe this is an inescapable fact of designing a subsystem for pathfinder, but if SoM wants to escape this at all, 2hu's advice is worth considering: not following to the letter, but considering.

>>51741534
Stop talking like an autist and using touhou pics and we're all good as far as I'm concerned.

>>51741552
Or if he just stops using pics then we probably won't notice when he talks like an autism.

>>51741537
Welcome to, like, the very first game breaking thing discovered in D&D 3.0.

>>51741555
I have a better idea: he can keep posting touhou pics, but stops with the autism.

>>51741555
This is true.

>>51741537
Wouldn't that be 1840 GP when selling it?

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>>51741378
2hu do not "shits up this thread" because they hate Pathfinder. This is not some twisted, malicious ploy of angering the fans of the game that you don't like. They play Pathfinder because it is easy to find games for it. It's their way way of thinking and inability to comprehend why others do things differently that draws ire.

>>51740516
>my cold cannibalistic serial killer Dex/Int Occultist becomes genki Str/Cha ditz wearing her heart on her sleeve
I would like to see it, actually. Though that would be probably similar to my character in another game.

>>51739773
Oh, definitely. That was horrible and I was actually embarrassed at how shameless some people can be. And I am the guy that would play genderbending shota kitsune vigilante in Fluffy Tails game if my schedule allowed for that.

>>51739751
Admittedly, I am not that well-versed on Golarion history. It wasn't anything overbearing, just that it had this national pride beaming from it. I am currently not in a mood for it, though making someone patriotic and nation-focused could be interesting and I surely could get into that mindset.

It is a shame because that could have been some motivation to actually read SoM material.

>>51741538
What about those Hindu-inspired things from Bestiary 5? Manasaputra? They are Lawful Good.

>>51741542
I'm not sure how touhou posting the same omg combos build over and over in this thread is aiding the playtest, especially when Jolly's already seen it and there's a document just for that.

>>51741592
Touhou's outright stated that they hate pathfinder though.

do zippers exist in Golarion?

>>51741596
Well... it helps the first time, at least.

I think they mean to encourage discussion about it but their reputation quickly ruins any chance of that.

>>51741578
Yea probably.

Fabricate can change the iron into masterwork weapons, which depending on what you make, could sell for a LOT.

Also it will get you killed for arming the peasants and causing insurrections and wars.

If I'm a self pact avowed and I use the bonus unarmed attacks from my pact while making weapon attacks with Aether Channel, do I cut the damage dice from the channel in half despite not doing TWF? I was thinking it'd be kinda neat to do a character who mixes in unarmed strikes with their weapon attacks, but I'm wondering if I'm better off ignoring the unarmed part unless I have to.

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>>51741606
So has like 95% of /pfg/.

>>51741607
Why not?

>>51741628
You get full dice if you're only making unarmed strikes, and half dice if you mix and match weapon + punch.

>>51741629
I don't hate pathfinder, I hate paizo. I just dislike parts of pathfinder and not the system as a whole, otherwise I wouldn't play in it.

>>51741628
Yes, I'm pretty sure.
You're using two different weapons: a normal weapon and unarmed strike.

>I was thinking it'd be kinda neat to do a character who mixes in unarmed strikes with their weapon attacks
You might be interested in the Fool's Errand discipline for Path of War, which was also written by the same person as the Avowed.

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>>51741629
Sounds about right.

>>51741124
i meant it in a way to describe what it feels like to play it. there's no religious fuckery, no spirits, no elements, no singing, no bloodlines, just pure american arcane powered spells from the ol' dusty tome.

>>51739063
>Maybe if you infuse some large rods with lightning Elementals you can produce the temperatures needed to extract the aluminum from bauxite.
That's how they deal with Adamantium and Numeria. Well, in that they use the ship's fusion reactor's venting system to work the shit.

>>51741647
>>51741667
>here's a bonus attack
>but using it messes up your other attacks if you're anything but unarmed

Welp. I guess it'd still be more chances to apply pulse debuffs, so it's still pretty good. Does it stack with actual TWF for people who decide to go full unarmed? Does your body even count as "multiple weapons", or is that only while using actual TWF?

>Fool's Errand
Actually looking at that right now, it's pretty cool.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rBu7VDnFCkOwtKRc-6TrjEAmD6GLZzG9KdaHjFCLp48/edit

Alright, after receiving some feedback yesterday, here's the newly revised unchained magus. Notable changes are:
>Spell combat doesn't induce an arbitrary -2 to attack rolls on a class with accuracy issues as it is
>Gains medium armor proficiency at the start, heavy armor at 13th as normal
>Buffs on some of the weaker arcana (namely pool strike and pool ray, see next point)
>pool strike and pool ray now present viable alternatives to shocking grasp and snowball. Will do less damage once you would normally intensify the spells, but scales better by default and can vary its damage type without having to dump every kind of metamagic on it known to man as well as modifying them with traits.
>added arcana for 2h spell combat at 6th level, along with medium armor to incentivize strength builds over the omnipresent dex magus
>added in TWF arcana available from the start, a decent option since the magus can help offset the cost with his arcane pool
>Can refresh arcane pool for meditating/concentrating/masturbating for 10 minutes, allowing for slightly more flexibility with how you use your arcane pool in combat
>buffed a few of the crappier arcana.

Still a bit of a tricky task to balance, but I think I'm getting there. Still looking for things to replace fighter training with since it's a useless non-feature. The hardest part is giving it more viable options without noticeably increasing the power level of the class.

Feel free to give feedback and/or shit on it.

>>51741606
Yes, but that does not mean they anger people on purpose. They are an unrepentant autist, not a troll.

>>51741728
Wizards are horribly boring and bland exactly because their method of magic is "it's magic lol". Arcane magic in general is criminally undefined and vague and vancian also punishes any kind of thematic specialization that is not conjuration or divination and that's mostly because those are just that good and versatile. Occultist should be the default wizard, really. Maybe after some tweaking to make it more casting-focused.

>>51741467

It's a very strong spear!

If I can, I'd also attach the Bludgeoning and Slashing qualities to make it a Dragonslayer's Spear!

>>51741633
Because zippers are a rather modern invention that require more complex manufacturing than would likely be available on Golarion.

>>51739120
>Or just play an Arcanist.
Aren't arcanists basically Sorcerers but they can learn spells from books too?

>>51741815
I was /just/ about to start working on a sort of mini-project for an Unchained Magus that focused on letting it use different fighting styles without dipping into archetypes. Guess I'll have to look this over

>>51741816
The wizard is shitty on multiple fronts. It's a boring class because its only class feature is "I cast spells", much like the cleric. Themed casting becomes increasingly useless the more specific it becomes, resulting in generic "specialized" wizards that amount to putting chocolate or rainbow jimmies on your ice cream.

Vancian casting is double shit, because two 1st level spells can have WILDLY different power levels, yet consume the *exact* same amount of resources, forcing the wizard to choose between cool or useful spells, as there is usually little crossover between the two things.

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Tell me about the characters you want to make, either for existing campaigns or campaigns that might exist in the future!

Is Ditzie still around? Is there a good mapping site I can link to?

>>51741866
Arcanists basically take the best of the wizard and the best of the sorcerer and combine it into one package. It's not noticeably stronger than the wizard (since they have the same spell list, which is what does 99% of the legwork), but it's a pretty good example of Paizo not even ATTEMPTING to utilize input from playtests to better tweak their classes.

The opposite extreme of that being the kineticist, and warlock vigiliante.

>>51741866
They've got a wizard's spellbook so they can know ALL the spells, but they can do the sorcerer thing where they spam the same spell five times if need be. Basically a sorcerer that prepares a new spell list every day from a wizard's spellbook.

The trade off is they don't get as many spells per day.

>>51741870
>jimmies
Ayy, northeast.

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>>51741899
>Warlock Vigilante

It hurts me so much that it wasn't even that hard to make it a good archetype, but Paizo didn't even fucking try. AND PAIZOTARDS WILL DEFEND IT.

>>51741909
ALL DAY™

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On a different Avowed topic, does anyone feel Aether Blade might be getting the short end of the stick compared to Aether Channel now?

It used to have CHA to hit and damage by default, and then it was changed so Spirited Swordsmanship was needed to gave it that. But, if you used Spirited Swordsmanship with Aether Channel, you got CHA to hit but lost stat to damage.

Now, Spirited Swordsmanship gives both of them CHA to hit and damage, meaning they need the same amount of feat investment.

What Aether Blade gets with three selections:
>Targets touch AC
>Reach and can hit adjacent squares
>Free enhancement at +1 per three levels, but can never put special enhancements like keen or bane on it

Aether Channel with three selections:
>Full BAB, both for to-hit and iteratives
>Free Haste extra attack
>Can also be used with thrown weapons
>Can be used with reach weapons as well
>Can be used alongside special magic weapons

The free haste extra attack doesn't give the speed bonus, but as a rough comparison:
>Silver Shoes, haste 10 rounds/day, 9000gp
>+2 weapon is 8000gp, Aether Blade gets this at level 6
>Greater Silver Shoes, unlimited haste, 40,000gp
>+4 weapon is 32000, +5 is 50,000, Blade gets them at levels 12 and 15.

Personally, I'm honestly not sure. Aether Blade used to be the main CHA-SAD melee option but that niche's been taken away from it, so its main standout advantage is targeting touch. Do you think that's worth it?

>>51741003
>Just get a Cold Iron weapon and have fun!
Why not Mithril

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>>51741236
Should have gone for it, son.
Should have gone for it.

>>51741899
Isn't it absurd that in one book we got
Two absurdly broken classes - Arcanist and Shaman
Seven middling, useful classes - Bloodrager, Brawler, Hunter, Investigator, Skald, Slayer, Warpriest
And Swashbuckler.

>>51741961
>shaman
>broken
?

>>51741847
So is like 90% of the stuff the iconics wear. I wouldn't worry about it too much if you're not going for Nomura-tier.

>>51741938
fey aren't weak to mithril.

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>>51741873

Pic Unrelated.

A gestalt Stalker (Vigilante/Bush)//Panoply Savant (Trappings of the Warrior) Occultist! His Transmutation Implement is a big frikkin' Nodachi he inherited from an ancient sensei who passed away years ago and his abjuration implement is an ancient heirloom shield. His day job is as a librarian and magician's assistant, and he moonlights as a vigilante to keep the townsfolk safe! Character looks like the guy in this post >>51739558

>>51741899
except you are wrong.

>>51741970
It's a 1-9 wis based divine caster with a fantastic spell list, fantastic hexes, the ability to poach witch hexes (hello flight hex and slumber hex!), as well as a familiar and the ability to basically swap around their class abilities on the fly, oh and 3/4 BAB.

>>51741924
I think Aether Channel is better for a single-classed Avowed, but hitting touch is really damn useful if multiclassing with 1/2 classes (or even 3/4 BAB if not using fractional BAB).

>>51739527
How does it feel knowing that DHB is making another punch fatty character for the game?

>>51741994
Care to elaborate? Because it's pretty obvious paizo does not into feedback.

>>51741986
Oh right Mithril counts as Silver, not Cold Iron.

>>51741970
>>51741996
Don't forget that with Wandering Lore Spirit the Shaman has access to the entire Wizard/Sorcerer spell list.

>>51741999
...When would you ever want to be maining frontline melee with an Aether Blade if you're multiclassing out into a half BAB class for more than a 1-level dip?

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>>51741999

>mfw Avowed (Elemental) with a Warder gestalt.

>>51742000
Considering that the other characters are literal furry, literal nothing, someone using pfg homebrew, and 2hu, what does it matter?

>>51742018
At the cost of being Wis/Cha/Int MAD, but if you REALLY want to break the game, you can't really do worse than that.

>>51741970
Shaman is a more powerful version of the witch by adding in a better spell list and oracle-lite class features. It jumps ahead to the front of the pack for tier 1 spell casters.

>>51742044
I'm worried about the Consolation Flare nerf from two updates ago - do you think it's fine as a flat once per round, or should it be once per round per creature, since the pact encourages the multi-target shapes?

>>51742046
Wow that sounds fucking awful.

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>>51742017
The reason my fighter ran around with a Mithril, Adamantium, and Cold Iron longswords.
Others thought I was mad but I showed them, I showed them all!

>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pl00apM9VDmhmLQZxzYJMmY6QLrLFhap3vH7bXnKtgg/edit
Can someone look at this for me. I feel like I'm missing something. Down in the Black Iron Knight archetype there are Knave's Tricks. It says you get one at level 1, level 4, then every 3 levels there after. However there are only three of them. Does this mean you can't take any more after level 7? Does the class feature stop working? Am I missing something?

>>51741873
A heavily scarred, distant, and disillusioned swordsman that hung out innawoods for years because he lost everything he cared for when he was young. He'd begrudgingly work with the group because he knows it ups his chances of survival, as well as helping him keep an eye on his familiar, a recently discovered pet whom he treasures dearly. Maybe over the course of the campaign, he'd open up to the other PCs, grumbling about "young punks" and how adventurers never train their bodies properly anymore.

EoA Self Pact Avowed||Brutal Slayer Stalker. Trait for Fey to grab Altered Life for Wisdom-based HP.

>>51742050
Well you're breaking the game so you just need about one, maybe two properly chosen spells and you're good to go, which really reduces the cha dependency. Just craft yourself a Headband of Mental Superiority and you're good to go.

>>51742084

That said, it's only been open since I think yesterday, so there's plenty of time for it to get better quality applications.

But yeah, it's not looking good! I'm awfully tempted to apply with a character I was going to use in an earlier campaign I later decided not to apply for, and part of me thinks this one will be better suited to the concept.

I want to make Dragonslayer Ornstein, but I've got a tickle that won't work *at all* for the type of campaign this is. Should I go for it, and switch Intelligence for Charisma or Wisdom?

>>51741953
I honestly should have, I do regret not going for it.

>>51742101
Also in relation to this

So for Wrath of the Raunchy I had the Black Iron Knight Anti-paladin Initiating Archetype approved. However now I am at an impasse.

One side of my Gestalt has already been decided as a Primalist Steelblooded Destined Bloodrager.

The other side is between two Anti-paladin Archetypes. The Insinuator and the Black Iron Knight.

The Insinuator would allow me to smite demons using Smite Impudence, invoking Inevitables. It also means I radiate a LN aura rather than a LE aura. Insinuator takes away spell casting, but gives bonus combat feats. I would use these for Martial Training for a bit of initiating on the side.

Black Iron Knight nets me more skill ranks, some neat features, initiating, but loses me Smite.

So my question here is, which should I go for in the end? Insinuator, grabbing some initiating on the side, or Black Iron Knight, and give up Smite?

Also are Inevitables the only LN outsider faction in pathfinder?

>>51742113
Definitely true, though you could probably go whole hog and show just why Shaman ought to be b& as heck.

>>51742007
The arcanest doesnt' get the sorcerer's spells per day. It has less stamina.

>>51742092
...but adamantium counts as cold iron I thought?
Wouldn't you just need mithril and adamantium?
Also, small mercies of being a Small character, but a mithril dagger for your size is actually cheaper than a masterwork dagger.

>>51742101
Wait shit I was the one who made this.

I can clarify that I forgot about it until now and am gonna fill it out with a few more Knave's Tricks. Thanks for reminding me this existed!

>>51742141
The sorcerer's stamina is less important than the way it spends those spell slots. An arcanist only has to prepare a spell once, and its available whenever he needs it now. The sorcerer's endurance has never really been relevant because you generally don't eat that many spells unless you're a blaster.

>>51742142
>Adamantine
>Source: PRG:CRB

>HP/inch 40 (weapons and armor normally made of steel that are made of adamantine have one-third more hit points than normal.; Hardness 20; Cost Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given.

>DESCRIPTION
>Adamantine is extremely strong and favored by weapon and armor smiths alike for its ability to cut through solid barriers with ease and endure heavy blows.

>Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20.

>Armor made from adamantine grants its wearer damage reduction of 1/— if it’s light armor, 2/— if it’s medium armor, and 3/— if it’s heavy armor. Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given. Thus, adamantine weapons and ammunition have a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls, and the armor check penalty of adamantine armor is lessened by 1 compared to ordinary armor of its type. Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not.

Doesn't say nothing about Cold Iron

>>51742142
Where are you getting this? Adamantium counts as adamantium.

>>51742112
>Dump DEX, CHA and CON
>WIS to HP, Reflex and Initiative
>Double STR to AC
>STR bonus on all saves

You absolute madman.

>>51742166
>do you want to cast fly on the entire party? no problem senpai.
>I just learned mind blank. High level spell...Now the whole party has it up all day forevor
Being able to just spam resources at a problem is super nice.

>>51742119
I had planned out a character for Crusaders n' Shit that could work really well here.

He was a Fortune Thief Vigilante/Steel Fisted Commando Warlord, found of one of the Oppara Shadow Schools known as "The Lion's Den" that trained Lion Blades agents specifically for the purpose of long term espionage operation with the purpose of getting close to and shadowing important foreign targets. He himself was Operative Monday, also known as Lucky Monday.

He was designed to need as little gear and weapons as possible to be ready for a fight, which means I may actually remove steel fisted commando in favor of something even less gear reliant, like the Aegis. As build the character had +7 luck bonus to attack/damage/saves/skill checks/ac which I considered pretty good.

>>51742000
I did not read previous punch fatty but why would I care? I have nothing against DHB.

>>51742046
>someone using pfg homebrew
I have once used another homebrew from the same author, an archetype for Spellburst Savant. It was ok, though the game did not last for long. What I am more concerned with is the GM allowing Turbo EX version of Spellburst Savant. It was separated from the main class precisely because it had balance issues. It is not game-breakingly bad and it has stunted spell progression but it is very versatile, VERY good at blasting and has lots of staying power thanks to Echoing Spell.

as a relative noob at pathfinder any suggestions for magus builds?

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>>51741815
I still feel iffy about the armor thing, but that can probably be something you solve via Archetype. I'm interested in where you take those, actually, since a lot of them are just straight trash (eldritch scion, bladed scarf dancer), or full of mediocre to downright worthless features (Kensai and weapon mastery, on an archetype stacking +'s to crit confirm but lacking weapon training)

Things I still kind of feel are missing otherwise at a glance:
>Alterations to existing, or just straight up remade, Weapon Quality Arcana
>a "downgraded, cantrip-esque" version of Pool Strike so midgame magi aren't still running around with nothing but Arcane Mark when they want to not blow slots/pool points
>whole bunch of missing arcana, like the "multihit pseudo precision" version of Pool Strike, shield stuff, anything to do with weapon special qualities

>>51742286
There's only two builds for magus in 1pp, my dude.

Any suggestions what to combine with Cryptic in a gestalt game?

>>51742315

Probably another int-based class. Slayer or Occultist are my suggestions.

Is there a spell for a weapon to count as cold iron and/or silver?

>>51742344
Yes.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/heart-of-the-metal/

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>>51742265

You should apply to the game with him! That sounds like a character that would be really appreciated in a campaign like this.

>>51742299
my new is showing, 1pp?
so what are they

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>>51742350
thank you dear

>>51742286
You have 4 routes.

Unarchetyped Str Magus
Eldritch Archer Magus
Hexcrafter QUALITY magus
Dervish Dancer Dex Magus

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>>51742363
1 party property or something.
basically just Paizo stuff
3pp includes everything under the sun (subject to gm discretion)

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>When you turn on the blacklight while the Dryads are around and they light up like they're at the club

>>51742278
I couldn't think of anything else disparaging to say, desu