Butthurt over change

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Raffinity in standard

>>51740889
Wasn't urza's saga way worse of a shitshow?

>>51740810
>what do you guys think was the thing that caused the most autistic screeching over the entire history of 40k?

Codex Chaos Space Marines 4e.

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>>51741028
> Remember

Also an honourable mention for Finecast, that really was shit.
> Let's replace our metal with resin!
> Just shove that shit into the moulds, don't worry about the bubbles
> Literally melting in British summertime heat
> And they increased the prices as they did it

>>51740930
Maybe, but it was pre internet ubiquity.

>>51740810
The 4e destruction of Forgotten Realms.

>>51740930
Kinda, but the format was way more open than standard was in Mirrodin.
>>51740810
The swap from 2nd to 3rd was huge and much complained about and pretty much why we can't ever go back to having a move stat.

>>51741082
Finecast is the most potent of cancers, I still second guess buying a model if it's fine casts even if I love the look or rules

I couldn't imagine the fear the entire model line would switch to that

>>51741469
Why did they switch to fine cast? Just cheaper to make?

>>51741539
Chinks raised prices for metall.

>>51740810
Space Wolves 5th edition.

>>51741584
Is fine cast at least better than the plastic ones they used to sell?

>>51741610
>Is fine cast at least better than the plastic ones they used to sell?
Well it was like russian rullet with 5 bullets.

>>51741723
Are they not still doing it?

I get they were terrible at first, but I was under the impression their finecast has improved since then.

I'm asking if they are now better than the plastic.

>>51741469
>Finecast is the most potent of cancers
What's ironic is finecast will actually give you cancer if you breathe in the dust.

>>51741723
That's called devil's roulette if anyone was curious.

when they made the eldar and dark eldar friends again and they all united as aeldari and lived happily ever after

>>51741852
How do I tell if something's made of finecast? I wasn't playing when GW tried to fuck everyone over with it initially

>>51740810
>what do you guys think was the thing that caused the most autistic screeching over the entire history of 40k?
third edition

It nearly killed 40k. They managed to build the playerbase up again, but it took more than a couple of years.

>>51741960
Finecast resin is kinda chalky feeling and a shade of grey that's closer to white. It's very soft and can bend and break easily. GW's new plastics are harder, tougher, and are a much darker shade of grey while also having a smoother feel to your hand.

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>>51742059
Oh, and also, the sprue in general on finecast is very weird looking. GW's new plastics have a normal looking sprue, with channels being right angled and leading to sensible locations. Finecast sprues literally stick out of the miniature every which way and involve cleaning out a LOT more flash and mold lines.

Just look at this finecast sprue. Look at all the extra resin flash on the fingers and the mold channels coming off every direction of the mini. It's a fucking mess.

>>51742059
>>51742118
So I'll know it when I see it. Good to know.

It's nice to know if something's carcinogenic before you sand the hell out of it because it's a fucking mess

>>51742179
Absolutely. You'll be safe during sanding if you wear a mask and do it in a well ventilated room. Thankfully the only good thing about finecast being so soft is you won't have to spend a lot of time sanding it.

>>51742179
all resin is carcinogenic

>>51740810
spiritual liege

>>51741116
you may as well say 4e on its entirety

>>51740810
i'd say it's a draw between 5edition tyranid codex and squatting the tomb kings
now one army got tons of model but is unplayable, while the other is strong rulewise, but no more supported

>>51741867
but that is not really what happened, the new faction is only a handful of eldars and the dark eldars are angry as shit that their city is under siege

>>51742377
4e was poorly received, that's true.

But forgotten realms fans are generally novel fans even more than they're d&d players.

4e skipped ahead 100 years, dumped in a ton of unwanted retcons, and blew up several countries and gods just cause.

Other than Drizzt and Elminsters, both of whom are going to live a long long time, 4e basically destroyed everything people liked about the setting.

It went over about as well as you'd expect.

Kind of like marvel trying to kill off the popularity of the mutants and replace them with the Inhumans. Fans just didn't bite.

>>51742478
are the Forgotten realms novels good ? i was thinking of reading then but i was not sure

>>51741838
>Are they not still doing it?
No. It was massively unpopular and they have stopped.

>I get they were terrible at first, but I was under the impression their finecast has improved since then.
In my experience, models designed for finecast were okay. Models designed for metal were a notorious shitshow in finecast.

>I'm asking if they are now better than the plastic.
They are not, and never were, better than plastic.

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>>51740810
Resurrection of the oWoD. Full stop.

During the oWoD days, a lot of splats were in there for the purposes of inclusiveness, but being that most RPG designers in the nineties were pasty white guys from the midwest, this was done clumsily. Circa 2004, enter nWoD/CoD. It was slicker, designed with the mistakes that they'd made with oWoD in mind (and there were many) and designed to be as innoffensive to modern sensibilities as possible.

So, the privilege checkers picked up on it around the early 2010s and widely sang it's praises despite the fact that the abandonment of floating difficulty makes it the easiest thing in the world to game.

And then they wanted to re-release the 20th Anniversary editions of the game. And then those started to outsell the nWoD/CoD versions. And then a reconstituted White Wolf Game Studio announced that they'd be relaunching the "problematic" oWoD lines and they all lost their fucking minds.

Ever wonder why we have a "Do Not Respond to Aspel" tag in the WoD General?

>>51742500
Varies.

I'm not a fan of Drizzt or the Elminsters novels, and they're the most popular. Lots of good one-offs and standalone trilogies about other characters, and by other authors though.

>>51742781
I remember playing a M:tA before nWod came out. Damn thing nearly gave me an aneurysm.

>>51742781
The nwod setting a shit. Changeling was passable, but after trying it again following a yearling campaign at about 25h of gameplay/wk it's now tired, played out, and dull. It was good for one long campaign though.

I agree many rules are much better in nwod though. 20th anniversary really should have been owod setting with nwod mechanics.

>>51742118
Holy shit those gates were very obviously cut into the mold by hand, and by somebody who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. That is a serious goddamn mess. I don't cast resin very often and don't claim to be good at it but that's worse than any fuckup I've ever made.
They look the same as the gates you would cut for a metal spincasting mold. I'd bet that whoever made this mold has never cast resin before and has only made them for metal.

t. metal caster

>>51742377
4e was hot garbage through and through. I've kept all the RPG books I've acquired over the years even if I never intend to play with them again, but I sold my 4e books because I didn't want them lowering the real estate value of my house by being in it.

>>51740810
Depends on which opinon offends you the most. That's the one filled with all the idiots who mindlessly hate change for no reason (which is why their reasons count as "autistic screeching", not because they're too offensive for you to process), while the opposite opinion is held with poor, smart cynics who are forced to suffer the words and thoughts of those who disagree with them.

>>51742500
>>51742818
As a 1-off I'd recommend Cunningham's waterdeep.

For a trilogy, counselors and Kings for "wizard nation intrigue", starlight and shadows for "drow leaves the underdark", and last mythal for "an ancient evil stirs the elves to action".

I enjoyed all three.

War of the spider Queen is also very good. It's a "drow party goes on a(n) (un)holy quest".

I prefer the audiobooks from audible to the physical copies, but I rarely have time to sit down and read lately, so audiobooks while cooking, in the shower, or driving is appreciated.

>>51742890
I actually dislike them because it's too easy for the players to run the tables. Again, the lack of floating difficulty. If every roll is difficulty eight, my players can calculate their (lack of) odds of failure via one simple calculation: .7^X=chance of failure.

Fuck.
That.
Noise.

With botch and floating difficulty, they can't calculate that on the fly and instead have to make decisions on the fly based on informed guesses.

>>51742921
By all accounts the 4e dark sun campaign setting was good.

4e was supposedly also better suited to Eberron.

That's about everything good I have to say about 4e.

>>51743015
It's also virtually impossible for the DM to gauge the difficulties accurately, and as a result, bullshit DCs ensue.

If you don't want them to know the odds in nwod, don't take away their dice. Have them roll without penalty, then roll your task difficulty to see how many of their successes get cancelled out.

>>51741867
Eldar and dark eldar were never anything but friends. The amount of conflict between them is no more than between any two groups of dark eldar, or different branches of the imperium, ork tribes and so on (i.e. quite often violent but ultimately they see themselves as the same group and will unite against anyone else).

>>51743082
how can pure craftworld eldar ever accept dark eldar in any fashion when they are completely ideologically?

>>51743059
oWoD wise, I make difficulty a factor of stress as well as complexity.

>Difficulty 3: Tying your shoes so that they don't come untied.

>Difficulty 9: Tying your shoes so that they don't come untied while you're on the side of a mountain in Afghanistan and five Taliban fighters are emptying their AK's at you.

As a general rule, I don't go above difficulty seven unless it's something climactic or exceptionally difficult.

I do like your idea about rolling modifiers behind their back, though. I think I'll have to take a second look at that.

>>51742019
As someone who only knows 40k from 3rd ed onward and considers it something of a high point, what was so bad about it compared to 2nd ed?

>>51743102
The only ideology all craftworlders share is 'fuck the lesser races over if it benefits the Eldar'. They have a very different method to avoid having their souls eaten than the DE use, but it isn't an ideology. It's just a way of dealing with a practical problem.

>>51743015
>I actually dislike them because it's too easy for the players to run the tables. Again, the lack of floating difficulty. If every roll is difficulty eight, my players can calculate their (lack of) odds of failure via one simple calculation: .7^X=chance of failure.

That doesn't seem like something I'd really call a problem. Plenty of good systems make it much easier than that to work out your odds of success. I really don't see how knowing the odds ruins anything.

>>51743138
Drastically cut down rules, large shift in tone, loss of a ton of options and some full armies. It was 40k's Age of Sigmar.

I do have fond memories of third and enjoy the ruleset quite a bit, but they're largely from the end of its run rather than the beginning.

>>51743265
you're just mad they killed your waifu off

>>51743249
Some people really don't like when players can know their odds of success in pure numbers.

I know one guy, who hates that about nwod.

We sat down and brainstormed a way for him to keep the difficulties secret in the system.

Before I suggested rolling the difficulty, he was keeping silent, and putting thresholds on the minimum number of successes.

I pointed out how that screws up all the math, and so we brainstormed until I came up with rolling difficulty as a cancelling dice pool.

>>51743277
Pardon?

>>51743102
well i wouldn't say craftworlder are that pure, if you take into account they are dudes who genocides human like it's nothing
if you follow the lore, craftworlder turning into pirates or dark eldar is another kind of path of the eldar, albeit a dark one

>>51743359
you have situations like that in the lore, but you also have craftworld eldar refusing to create new organic bodies because they aren't dark eldar and instead shoving souls into wrathbone constructs even though it's """necromancy""""
seems to come down to more of flavor than ideology for GW.

>>51743316
Don't mind him. He's just shitposting.

>>51743316
a waifu is a character in the lore who you love

>>51741082
>>51741539
Yep, the France rep who's also the owner of the Bordeaux store told me that GW had no choice but to switch to Finecast, or GW would have gone bankrupt with the cost of metals at that time.

He still bitches about it though, says it's a fucking disgrace to have products like that.

>>51742890
>nwod setting
>vampires have the Judeo-Christian mythology stripped out and are actually sustainable instead of petering out after x embraces
>werewolves aren't retarded Captain Planet furries anymore
>hunters don't need random superpowers just to hold the line anymore, just a shotgun and some petrol bombs
Get purged

>>51742893
That's because they were metal molds used to make resin.

>>51741595

So much of this

>Grey Hunters just better than other marines, and cheaper as well because "SW players will surely take 4 pimped out HQ choices and need cheap troops"

Someone actually thought this was reasonable

>>51743082
The only umbrage I take with the Ynnari is the inclusion of Incubi.

Those fucks have to murder an aspect warrior and torture their soulstone as an initiation. The idea that CWE would ever work alongside them seems outrageous to me.

>>51745031
Judeochristian mythology is great though

>>51745031
>Implying that the Judeo-Christian underpinnings didn't make Vampire great.
>Implying low gen vampires never create new progeny
>Implying desperate, losing battles aren't awesome.
>Implying that hunter wasn't ignored by the fan base at large.

Purge yourself, faggot.

>>51742970
>Having opinions is dumb!

Its a bitching thread, get over yourself.

>>51741028
Tyranids would like to have a word with you. The literal founding philosophy behind the army was that any of their units could fit (almost) any role by using biomorphs. Now we have bits on sprues that serve literally no purpose, to say nothing about how neutered our actual units are.

I'd also like to give an honourable mention to the inclusion of flyers and superheavies into mainline 40k, something that had previously been kept in Forgeworld and Apocalypse. I didn't see a lot of screeching at first, but definitely when things got going and most armies found that they had no tools to handle things like Helldrakes. Fuck, some armies STILL have trouble with flyers.

>>51750734
flyers moving from scaled up epic 40k flyers (which, you know, functioned like actual aircraft) to super-skimmers was a mistake

>>51743138
2nd edition was a shit show for a whole bunch of reasons. The shift to 3rd was the best thing GW ever did with 40K.

>>51740930
Basically every deck killed on turns 2 or 3 in Urza's standard, and some had nut draws that could pull it off on 1. It was still somehow more fun than Affinity.

The tonal shift from 2e to 3e 40k isn't really relevant. Mid 90s GW was all bright primary colors and garish cartoon looking aesthetics. The problem with 2e likewise isn't really specific. Look at ANY mid 90s GW product, Fantasy, 40k, or Epic, and its a mess of cardboard data sheets, chips, counters, and cards. Boxes and boxes of the shit.

Problem with 3e is kind of that it neutered the setting. Things weren't really removed per se, just 75% of the world of 40k was just ignored, making it feel really sterile and small. Basically anything that didn't have a miniature was ignored.

>>51750881
it was also an enormous rift in the playerbase, and not an entirely unjustified one

>>51742429
the plural of eldar is eldar fuckface

same goes for Skaven, Lizardmen (Seraphon), Saurus, etc.

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>>51740810
Jesus Christ, let's see if I can even remember
>3-4th ed Iron Warriors
>Rhino Rush
>Fish of Fury
>4th ed rending
>Harliquin's kisses when fortune let you reroll whatever you pleased
>Holofield Falcons
>Altioc Table
>Warptime and Lash of Submission
>Nob Bikers back when you had to wound everybody to remove models.
>Deffwagons around the same time.
>Codex SM 5th ed, Spiritual Liege Edition.
>Dropping Chapter Traits in the same book
>Vendettas, "Leafblower" guard
>Jokero. People got really offended for some reason.
>Chrome Baby Carriers, that lasted at least until SM got those tonka truck suits.
>The Tonka Truck suits. IF in particular look bad.
>Helldrakes. Christ it was awful.
>That double force org thing at 2000 they tried at the start of 6th. TOs lost their minds.
>I know a lot of people who dipped out when Knights showed up.
>Tyranids getting fucked in every orifice in their new book and getting charged for it.

I stopped paying attention and stopped playing middle of 6th, I don't know what people are screeching about nowdays. Double Asscan Termies were some bullshit though.

>>51751497
Fish of fury was really not that bad, yes it was fucking strong, but you had to set it up pretty carefully and you could usually realistically only use it twice per game for any given unit. Tau also didn't have their assortment of new bullshit units back then either.

>4th edition rending

That was fucking so much fun holy shit, when my broodlord/genestealer blob touched something, it died. Tanks, blobs, MCs, deathstars, elites, didn't fucking matter, it died.

>Tfw infiltrating genestealers managed to acquire every single bullet the enemy could throw at them
>Leaving your huge hormagaunt blob unmolested

Fucking huehuehue

>>51750933

Early game kills are cancer and so are it's players.

>>51751705
hormagaunts and genestealers could get first turn charges, too

even as a tyranid player they felt super bullshit

>>51751497
>Nob Bikers
I'm not saying that what they did to wound allocation was a bad move, but it feels like they forget to push the points cost back down for Nobs and especially Nob Bikers.

Anyway, nowadays it's formation bullshit. Very few people actually play standard Combined Arms detachments anymore because the bonuses are so good. I'd say that the top three cheddars are Marine's Skyhammer, Eldar's Wraith Host and Tau's Optimised Stealth Cadre.

Can we all agree that the removal of fucking formations and going back to foc and allies would be a huge improvement?

>>51751943
Formations are a good idea executed in possibly the worst way imaginable. I like having a multitude of ways to arrange my army, but the absolutely ridiculous formation rules out there are ruining it. So yes, things would be better if we went back to the old way, but things would be even greater if GW could do formations right.

>Waiting for a Dark Eldar update that isn't just covens
>Finally get something
>It just makes it easier to ally Craftworlds
>And if I try to use the formation, people will accuse me of being a bandwaggoning cheese merchant before I can even show them my list

WHAT THE FUCK DID DARK ELDAR EVER DO TO YOU GAMES WORKSHOP!?

>>51751943
40k needs more than that.

Flyers, giant walkers and super heavies need to be cordoned off into Apocalypse again at a minimum.

This may be the wrong thread for this, but what doe /tg/ think of Warhammer 9th age? Anyone tried it?

>>51752753
It is the wrong thread.