>goes to the GW website >golden terminators now have bolters

>>51737987
>SM scouts in gold
Not only did they transplant Space Marines in their fantasy setting, they're just porting the entire chapter organization over. Literally copy/pasting the entire thing, not even pretending to invent something new. Instant faction, just add pauldrons.

>>51738080
>Hey space marines are popular in our other game
>Let's put them in this game too
>People will of course buy these two
So instead of having western fantasy turned all the way up we get 40k 2, world of planes boogaloo.

I have yet to play AoS so I can't say anything about the rules, but the lore seems fucking stupid.

>>51738094
>but the lore seems fucking stupid.
the good parts of the lore are the ones people make by themselves

>>51737987
Fantasy died for this.
>inb4 kys fantasy was shit
The problem with AoS isn't that it's different, it's that a fantastic setting was completely destroyed for it. If AoS was a spinoff game, no one would say shit, but the problem is that GW made shitty rules that encouraged giant blobs of infantry and pushed monstrous creatures for every army and then said "Hmm, why is no one buying Fantasy? It must be because the setting is worthless." Instead of fixing their shit with a new edition, they just killed the whole thing. "Shit, my computer has a virus! Better take it out back and put a round of buckshot in it and buy a tablet instead!"

>>51738094
>the lore seems fucking stupid.
It is.

>>51737987
Ultramarines have their own Blood Claws now?
Also, why they looks so fat?

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>>51737987
>Boltstorm Pistol
>Bolt Pistol

What if they're trying to make AoS into 40k so they can kill AoS and have all of it's former players play 40k? Imagine the money they'd save if all of their customers bought from the same line.

>>51738176
Exactly. It is all pretty much fan fiction anyways.

>>51740757
Nah more likely they are going the Warmahordes way

Gotta love how these giant, clanking, golden, haloed, plumed megamen who are heralded by crashing thunder and lightning are supposed to be stealthy rangers.

>>51740825
>space marines scouts, on bright blue armour or similar

I think I found out why attrition rates amongst initiates are so high guys

>>51740910
The stealthy ones take cameloline cloaks so they can blend in with their surroundings.

>>51738080
Nah man. These are Boltstorm Pistols. Nothing like Bolt Pistols.

>>51737987
I'm actually really looking forward to these for 40k conversions

>>51738650
Are they even trying?

>New Eldar terrain looks like aquarium fake plants
Nop they are not.

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>>51741179
I was thinking the same thing

>>51741179
This is what I was also thinking.

Putting these guys side by side with Inquisitor Greyfax or Celestine, it's getting harder to tell the two settings apart.

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>>51738181

>>51741179
IMO, but bodies are little fat for SM.

>>51740910
Initiates are physically the size of a large baseline human, are at the stage of their training where they are learning recon and other "stealthy" skills, wear fatigues made out of thermo-optic camouflage material, and favour sniper rifles. Your point is moot.

These are giants in glittering golden plate armour topped with plumes. In the role of wilderness-savvy, stealthy rangers.

>>51741456
I'd planned on mainly going for the pistols. The bodies themselves are like termite sized, but I felt like the guns could be great as bolters or bolt pistols for the force I'm planning out. Going for a sort of forest/woodland ranger theme, so crossbows fit great

>>51741557
YOU STOLE MY LOST LEGION IDEA

I WILL SMASH YOUR SKULL WITH A BRICK

REEEEEEEE

>>51741583
Don't worry anon. I actually wasn't planning on space marines with it. I was going to go for sisters of battle

Props for the cool idea though.

>>51741608
REEEEEE

Best of luck on the hobby project, hope it's fun!

>>51738181
it wasn't a particularly fantastic setting. take your rose tinted glasses off.

>>51741641
The tone was far better than AoS. Dismal High Medieval meets Early Modern versus World of Warcraft.

>>51737987

>put Space Wolf heads on them
>throw on Space Wolf accessories and bits
>convert Bolters and other wepaons into hands
>suddenly have truescale army of Space Wolves

>>51737987
>literal bolt pistols

>>51741608
Why not go with Dream Forge at that point?

I mean you are already kitbashing

>>51741640
Thanks. You too.

>>51741755
I was mainly after the 'guns' from these guys. For bodies, I was planning on sisters of silence for something that looked lightweight and had a cloak as a bonus. The Dream forge stuff is nice from what I've seen, but too bulky for what I'm after.

>>51737987
I find it funny how they're basically Roman Auxiliary yet people still cry

>>51741983
The do have some slimmer models with some fine ASSets

>>51742016
Yeah, but those fit more with a guardswoman look. Maybe if I end up wanting some initiates or the like to run as stormtroopers, but I'm planning on a small force for now anyway

>>51742011
>Provincials wearing furs and rough textiles, useful in engagements in their homeland because they know their home turf, panoply of war equivalent to the lower ranks of the Plebeian class

>THUNDERSTRIKE STORMLORDS WITH STRIKEFLASH THUNDERBOLT WHIRLCASTERS

>>51742043
I run a those as Storm troopers or Acolytes.

>>51742011
i don't remember Roman Auxiliary having bring gold armor that looks like something out of 40K

>>51742064
I forgot to mention, we're supposedly to believe that the FLASHTHUNDER STORMSCOUTS are capable woodsmen, in their gleaming, heavy LIGHTNINGSTRIKE STORMPLATE.

>>51742132
>out of 40k

Nah, none of that cool, dirty, Blanchesque dystopian vibe. No unwieldy wires feeding into archaic technology, no grisly cybernetics, no TUBES.

This shit is straight up World of Warcraft.

>>51737987
It's another people can't accept that 40k is just better thread

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>>51742197
>40k is just better
Yeah especially aeronautica.

>>51742181
How mad are you that I am currently making AoS armies to look like warcraft armies?

>>51742249
Oh I'm not mad, that makes perfect sense. I'd even play AoS because I enjoy more streamlined rule sets.

That said I find WoW's aesthetic, which is shared by AoS, to be fucking abysmally retarded. I'm more sad than anything that your idea will work as well as it will.

>>51741641
It was absolutely amazing. Renaissance with Orks, Elves, Dark Elves and Norse? Yes, please.

>>51742294
That nobody played and the setting was stagnant for 25 years.

>>51742277
All jokes aside it is a perfect transition for warcraft to the table top. Considering warcraft ripped off most of their stuff from warhammer to begin with, I don't even need to do heavy conversions.

>>51742277
You know what? Let's play a game. What makes AoS have a WoW Aesthetic?

Bear in mind, the people who level the WoW argument are usually people who didn't start wargames before 2001 anyway.

>>51742301
>That nobody played
All thanks to 8th edition.
>setting was stagnant for 25 years.
>what SoC is
>>51742309
>Considering warcraft ripped off most of their stuff from warhammer to begin with,
Such as..?

>>51741641
You know what?

Fuck you, apologist. It was great. It was possibly the best high fantasy setting out there that stuck with all the tired old tropes but presented them in a way that made them timeless. It was a near flawless mingling of high magic adventure with gritty, dark fantasy horror. It had depth, it had humanity, and it wasn't afraid to stick with the classics and go to actual dark places with them. No matter what you say about player input or giving things time to grow, AoS's setting is absolute shit in comparison.

The only problems I can find in WHFB's lore are a few of the named characters being sort of derp.

>>51742336
>All thanks to 8th edition

Hello there person who got into Warhammer in 2010.

You're wrong, 6th edition was the slow eventual decline after Early 6th edition was the Apex.

it was all down hill from there.

>>51742337
>Lore
>Derp

Go back to /v/ then you 15 year old autist.

>>51738181
>ohnoit'sretarded.jpg

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>>51742330
>What makes AoS have a WoW Aesthetic?
Iron Horde factiin, WoD treefolk, Alliance posterboys.
>Bear in mind, the people who level the WoW argument are usually people who didn't start wargames before 2001 anyway.
And you are..?

>>51742336
Ah yes, Storm of Chaos

>Let's put the entire world against Chaos
>One of the oldest books in 6e and supremely underpowered
>Chaos doesn't even get out of Praag realistically.

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>>51742373
If you think 'lore' is a bad word on /tg/, it is you that needs to leave.

>>51742358
Yeah, but 8th edition was final nail in the coffin

>>51742336
Just the overall looks of warcraft factions. For example the horde orcs from wc2 are just warhammer orcs with a different colour scheme. The warcraft lore is entirely different from warhammer tho, warcraft orcs are much more cultured than warhammer

>>51742386
>Iron Horde faction

So the Ork inspired Orcs, complete with hand powered power Klaw.

>WoD Treefolk

You mean the 6e Plastic dryad inspired treefolk.

>Alliance poster boys

Alliance ain't based on a neither Einherjar nor Romans.


>>51742397
The term used by people not walking in from 1d4chan is fluff, Fluff and crunch.

>>51742406
Please, the setting was dead after Storm of Chaos.

>>51742309
The simplest way to explain my argument is bid you look at WoW tiered armour sets.

>>51742330
Cartoonish, overdesigned proportions and armors, almost everyone looks like a top-heavy musclularington motherfucker, V A S T pauldrons, random 'particle effect' designs that clutter the models and distract the eye from how poor the overall design is, no sense of weight or grounding in reality, etc etc etc...

>>51742416
Fluff and crunch are warhammer terms. /tg/ makes abundant use of the word lore for other games.

>>51742416
>The term used by people not walking in from 1d4chan is fluff, Fluff and crunch.

There are multiple people using lore in this thread.

Plenty of people use the word in /tg/. Plenty of people alternate between different words with the same meaning, because it makes things less monotonous to read.

You need to leave.

>>51742423
Yea I know they have ridiculous shoulders, but that's one piece of gear. Look at the artwork and character models from wc2-3. It's very similar to warhammer. Granted there's only so many ways you can do fantasy settings uniquely. Going for the cartoon look is what gave warcraft it's identity

>>51742438
Yeah.

We're not talking about other games are we? /v/ users use lore constantly because they're used to their pissant stories mattering shit.

Fact is, the Novels of AoS have ironically been ten times better at fleshing out both sigmarines and creating a story than anything in 40k in a long time.

>>51742453
Are you implying I don't considering them all Beardling refugee's from /v/?

Is this what it has come to? you can't stand your feelings being challenged on a new setting so you want the Longbeards to leave?

>>51742488
Oh my bad please allow me to use fluff instead because it will somehow make it easier for you to understand what I'm saying. Make a horde character on the elysium server so I can 1 shot your scrub ass, then I'll table you with my eldar

>>51742479
And it's a distinct identity. Polarizing. You could see that effect in fans when Warhammer adopted that aesthetic identity.

WHFB was never a straight up historical, but it at least showcased an aesthetic more grounded in history, and one that doesn't get a lot of play in the fantasy genre. Who else does the Holy Roman Empire? Feathers and flintlocks and codpieces and landsknechts?

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>>51742416
>So the Ork inspired Orcs, complete with hand powered power Klaw.
Sorry, but I never saw Gul'Dan, Blackhand, protodrakes and Gorehowl qmong the orks.
>You mean the 6e Plastic dryad inspired treefolk.
Nah they were much less anthropomorphic.
>Alliance ain't based on a neither Einherjar nor Romans.
So as sigmarines.
Also, in one of the first AoS arts Sigmar wearing literall grand marshal's set from Vanilla.

>>51742488
>Are you implying I don't considering them all Beardling refugee's from /v/?

I'm implying that you're retarded, mate.

The word lore has been used across /tg/ since its conception, probably years before you arrived here to play with your Wacraft figures and shit up the place.

You know what people don't generally do on /tg/? Refer to themselves as 'longbeards', because that's cringe-worthy as fuck. We're fa/tg/uys and ca/tg/irls, whether newfag or oldfag.

Seriously fucking leave you child.

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>>51742521
>Plays on Elysium to capture his 2001 era nostalgia
>Plays Eldar in 20k

How utterly predictable, perhaps you have a blink192 shirt and want to talk about Angry marines?

>>51742536
Ah I see.

You're the slavposter! The Sylvaneth are a combination of Elves and the Treekin we saw before, or are you saying GW specifically went to copy ONE mob type in WoD to model the Treemen in 8th edition from.

Glad I can ignore you, because in the first art sigmar is wearing the fucking Armour of the Heldenhammer from Valten.

>>51742551
>Says I am cringey as fuck
>Unironically drops fa/tg/uys

Hello from 1d4chan.

>>51742488
>Novels of AoS have ironically been ten times better at fleshing out both sigmarines and creating a story than anything in 40k in a long time.
Well, nope, even in novels sigmarines are still overpowered ultramarines.
Not to mention that the whole AoS setting feels like sterile compilation of generic multiverse fantasy with huge elements of WoW, but without Warcraft charm (history, characters, stories).

>>51742588
Oh Slavposter.

We all know you haven't read any of them.

>>51742536
You know, As a Sylvaneth player, it makes me laugh how people like you think an Entire Army based on Forest Spirits is ONLY brought about because of ONE Mob in WoW.

Were the Wood Elves copied of Night Elves too?

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>>51742587
>everyone that disagrees with me is the same slav
>also fa/tg/uy isn't something said across /tg/ regularly

Jesus, AoS players really are thicker than concrete.

Do you even come out of your General for anything but trolling better games and defending your shit sandwich of a system?

>>51742587
>knows what elysium is
>still tries to act like we both aren't turbo nerds arguing over nerd shit
Where did the eldar touch you?

>>51742587
>You're the slavposter!
Nice argument kiddo, perfect way to evade discussion.
>The Sylvaneth are a combination of Elves and the Treekin we saw before,
That's why they doesn't looks like dryads or treekin?
>fucking Armour of the Heldenhammer from Valten.
From retconned SoC, which you hate so much.

>>51742627
Wood Elves and Night Elves don't look remotely similar... and Wood Elves predate Night Elves by around two decades.

Dang nigga you dumb.

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>>51742678
Did you actually read my post?

The Sylvaneth are hardly WoD Tree people or even the GW2 Tree people.

They're pretty baller forest spirits with the nicest sort of looking like elves.

I mean AoS has been amazing, people only focus on the Stormcasts Aesthetics and cry about "Muh WoW" When it's been more interesting than WHFB in some areas.

>>51742627
>, it makes me laugh how people like you think an Entire Army based on Forest Spirits is ONLY brought about because of ONE Mob in WoW
So you are just in denial?
>>51742678
It was irony.

>>51742678
I mean, they kind do. Night elves are much bigger and have different coloured skin. Replace hawks and eagles with sabers and bears and you got night elves

>>51742728
And now posts minis of their last infantry release.

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>>51742650
Not him but slav warmachine shitposter is known in /WHFB/, /AoS/. and /TW/ in /vg/. He is known for his posting style and bad English. He flip flops from supporting AoS and hating on it whatever gets the job done to stir shit. Now what's your excuse for trying to hide a shitposter?

See picture related.

>>51742416
>be anon
>spend all week reading 1d4chan so I can pretend I'm le epic oldfaggot
>see shitpost about Age of Sigmar
>time to test my new powers
>absolutely smashing it
>everyone can only stare slack-jawed at my amazing oldfaggotry
>time to deliver the coup d'grace
>flashbacks to the "fluff" page in 1d4chan
>I know it by heart
>recite all of it under the eyes of god before I #rekt this anon so hard he will never recover
>the words flow through me in a monotonous chant
>"Powergamers will ignore fluff to focus on the crunch of target numbers, dice pools and maximum efficiency. Their counterparts, roleplayers, will design characters or units based solely on the background stories behind choices to the point where the actual characters or units are functional"...
>"...will experience an apotheosis, and ascend into crunchhood..."
>I AM BECOME DEATH DESTROYER OF WORLDS
>"the term is FLUFF not LORE you NEWFAG"
>tell him he's from 1d4chan for good measure
>the onslaught of ungodly power blinds all that witness my might

>but wait a minute
>the page
>open it again
>re-read the first paragraph
>"Fluff (or Lore if you want to be more polite and less demeaning) is gamer slang for the histories and colorful descriptions used for a game or game setting that have no mechanical effect on the game's rules."
>"Fluff (or Lore if you want to be more polite and less demeaning)"
>>"Fluff (or Lore)"
>NO
>IT CANNOT BE

>>51742627
>Were the Wood Elves copied of Night Elves too?

Night Elves
>chunky purple Amazons with ears longer than god's phallus and metal bikinis

Wood Elves
>pale, skinny forest creepers wearing bits of woodland and Celtic-inspired shit

Dude. The only things they have in common are that they live innawoods.

>>51742728
I'm a huge detractor of AoS and Sigmarines make me want to vomit, and they are WoW to ducking hell and back.

That said, Sylvaneth have been the only thing from the model range I've pretty much unanimously liked. Alarielle a shit though, she's fucking terrible "LOL LEAF ANGEL WINGS" is a terrible idea, and her dress clashes so much with the general aesthetic it hurts.

Branchwraithes, Hunters of Kurnoth, etc. are all great, and Drycha, or whoever the elf bitch with the tree-body/mechsuit is baller as fuck.

>>51742760
Utterly BTFO LOL

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>>51742762
Yes, yet the Sylvaneth are just copies of WoW mobs.

Especially the Tree Spirits pretending to be Elves because they have their memories.

>>51742775
The Tzneetch shit has been amazing too, and their fluff is great, people just seem to hate AoS for no reason why it's ironically my favorite setting now.

>>51742728
>When it's been more interesting than WHFB in some areas.
Yeah what could be more interesting than generic Ashenvale-realm.

Reminder that GW went full circle and ripped off the ripped off Zerg and that neither Blizzard, nor GW ever had an original though in their existence.

>>51742760
>Spends like 10 mins writing a greentext just to insult someone when their argument is still solid.

>>51742801
Oh Slavposter, everything is WoW to you.

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>>51742757
The funny thing he has been calling warhammer stuff wowshit even before AoS came out. Here he is here calling Karl Franz a generic wow paladin.

>>51742801
>implying ashenvale isn't baller as fuck
You probably don't like hyjal either, fag

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>>51742748
I'm sorry, but they have a completely different aesthetic.

Please tell me how this...

It's official.
The setting that Warcraft ripped off hand over foot is now being accused of being the rip off.
It's like the 40k threads with Starcraft.
Stop it, you retards, it's bottom barrel bait.

>>51742827
>ripping on ppl for using the word lore
>definition of fluff includes lore as an alternative term
>still thinking he isn't eternally BTFO

>>51742799
>Yes, yet the Sylvaneth are just copies of WoW mobs
How about you post their hunters?
>people just seem to hate AoS for no reason
The reason was already named here : >>51738176

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>>51742850
...is remotely comparable to this.

I'm even using a less cartoony Night Elf image.

>>51742830
This thread is basically Slavposter and a few newfags defending him.

I mean every time I hear the argument AoS was started entirely because of the WoD expansion I know it's Slavposter.

>>51742856
>B-But you're BTFO because I did a greentext

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>>51742858
You mean the Kurnoth Hunters, who are literally smaller Treemen?

>>51742855
No, Warcraft ripped off WHFB.

AoS ripped off Warcraft.

The circle is now complete.

And, yes, they are different settings.

>>51742874
My advice. His posting style is distinctive and he never changes it. His arguments are all over the place and contradicting. When you see him in a thread arguing, for example, against AoS just throw screencaps of him supporting AoS. And vice versa.

>>51742874
No, I am the one who wrote the greentext, thanks

I wrote the greentext because you're either a crossboarder, a newfag, or autistic enough that you need to make up shit to be elitist about

>>51742874
Rekt [x] Not rekt [ ]
Told [x] Not told [ ]
BTFO [x] Not BTFO [ ]

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>>51737987

>>51742874
>AoS player calls someone newfag
>>51742897
>literally smaller Treemen
Where, they looks much closer to >>51742536

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>>51742935
>Make up shit to be elitist about

I'm sorry, am I supposed to ignore the easiest way to spot a crossboarder from /v/ is they run into Warhammer threads, claim to know everything and spout shit like "lore" and only ever focus on the "lore" because they never touched the models?

>>51742939
Nah man, they look like the 8th edition Treeman more Slavposter.

>>51742963
>Nah man, they look like the 8th edition Treeman more Slavposter.
Where exactly, except legs?

>>51742963
>Nah
Easiest way to spot a crossboarder from /i/. The term used by people not walking in from /i/ is "nuh". Nuh and ya

>>51742936
And that's the sound of one hand clapping...

>>51742850
>>51742869
They don't even have similar fluff.

Night Elves are super conservative, traditionalist OG elves. Wood Elves are stubborn, reckless colonist elves who left their homeland and made new lives for themselves across the sea.

>>51742874
>>51742931
Yes, that's it, pretend that everyone without your opinion is one guy. That will convince people that you're not a bunch of gibbering retards.

>>51742830
ur mom has depth too

>>51742963
>spout shit like "lore"

People use this term constantly.

You're being a fucking idiot, dude. If you think nobody on /tg/ says this, you clearly need to leave your AoS general more often.

I'm assuming you came here recently for AoS and haven't really interacted with the rest of /tg/, because if not, you're just a moron, and I prefer to think you're not.

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>>51737987
>multiple stormbolt crossbows strapped together are called "hurricane...."
where have I already heard of this?

>>51743002
>Legs
>Face
>Arms
>Usually painted with "Spirit" weapons

I don't know what else to say. Are you trying to tell me instead of being inspired by the 8th edition model that made most of the factions aesthetics, they're designed on a throwaway wow mob?

>>51743037
When did you start posting on /tg/ then bud? What edition did you start with Warhammer?

>>51743014
>They don't even have similar fluff.
>Night Elves are super conservative, traditionalist OG elves. Wood Elves are stubborn, reckless colonist elves who left their homeland and made new lives for themselves across the sea.

Except, this is all gone now. All that lore is there, but who knows if the "Aelves" now will be like this or not.

>>51742337
This guy.

>>51743014
>pretend that everyone without your opinion is one guy.

>Same posting style, same broken English, same arguments,
>not the same guy

You can ask around in /TW/ and /WHFB/ instead of looking like a complete idiot.

>>51743056
>>Face
>>Arms
Much more anthropomorphic.
>that made most of the factions aesthetics
>source: my ass
>they're designed on a throwaway wow mob?
Why not, since AoS using a lot of WoW stuff.

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>>51743063
No, it's not. The Wood Elves became the Wanderers and they already have their own fluff in the Grand Alliance book.

They are crusading hippies trying to redeem themselves.

>>51743115
Oh shit. I'm in the dark still. Thanks anon, did you take that picture just for me?

>>51743056
I was so young when I started Warhammer, I didn't even have a concept of separate editions at the time. It was the tail end of 4th though, I think... about a year or two before 5th started up with that sweet Lizardmen v Bretonnian box.

>When did you start posting on /tg/ then bud?

Before you did.

>>51743134
No, I saved a from a long while ago. Your welcome.

>>51743081
Except that guy clearly isn't in this thread.

The dudes speaking here don't post in his style at all. So clearly, it's not all one guy, you absolute backbirth.

>>51743115
>literally race of cucks who redeeming themselves after insulting "strong independent womyn"
Also, so they are lile Endless Legend guys?

>>51743140
proof.

>>51743140
So the same era as me. So we can stop pretending AoS is just a Warcraft ripoff and not just the Designers way to get back to the roots of a less uniform world.

>>51743166
They're Gypsy Elves.

>>51743166
Broken Lords? They're the only faction after redemption.

Absolutely nothing in AoS is as cool as Broken Lords. In fact, nothing AoS is as cool as anything in Endless Legend.

>>51743164
Except he is and does does and you are covering for him.

You are a deluded cunt.

>>51743187
I disagree.

Tzneetch Sorceror cults using their magic to get sick gains is hilarious and awesome.

>>51743184
>not just the Designers way to get back to the roots of a less uniform world.
Yeah sure same names, outland-like (since even 4th edition planes have some cosmology system) locatoins and design just a pure coincidence
>>51743187
>Broken Lords?
Meanwhile, perfect example how sigmarines could look interesting.
>They're the only faction after redemption.
I am about "nomadic" lifestyle.

>>51743184
WHFB had a petty uniform feel from 3rd onward. That feel progressed as time went on, often moving forward alongside the changing techniques and how they changed what kind of models could be made, but it was consistent throughout.

AoS is just poor design borrowed from more modern sources. It's not just Warcraft, really - Warcraft is just the biggest culprit.

>>51743288
>AoS is just poor design borrowed from more modern sources.

Actually, the designers/writers said that were inspired by Kirby's New Gods lore in the making of AoS.

>>51743196
You're the one vehement that every single person not sharing your opinion is some random slav guy, despite having no evidence to support this claim. That seems rather more delusional.

>>51743280
>I am about "nomadic" lifestyle.

Roving Clans?

Making Wood Elves like them would require a deep and interesting world with economic norms and social systems beyond "this city is the good guys, this city is the bad guys." AoS currently has nothing like that.

>>51743315
So it's not even fantasy (genre), it's a fucking capeshit....

>>51743315
I'm sure they were to an extent, though I find it more likely that they were banking on the newfound popularity of Norse mythology via the Mahvel movies and later someone realized that Kirby brought these themes into his New Gods stuff and they could steal from him too.

That said, nothing in AoS resembles Kirby's designs. Or has the gravitas he invested his concepts with.

>>51743326
Already posted evidence in the thread and it's not about his opinion it's about him flip flopping to shitpost in threads.

And it's not every single person. It's just one guy and if you can read English then you would recognize his posts. Now would you kindly fuck off? You vehemently defending him makes you look suspicious,

>>51743326
>Making Wood Elves like them would require a deep and interesting world with economic norms and social systems beyond "this city is the good guys, this city is the bad guys." AoS currently has nothing like that.

They are working on that via the novels. Read "City of Secrets".

>inb4 I don't want to

Then why complain about something you won't read?

>>51738094
>I have yet to play AoS so I can't say anything about the rules
It's probably the worse wargame out there, rules-wise

>>51743374
I'm not defending anyone, because the person you're raving against probably isn't even in this thread.

I'm sure he's a terrible shitposter, but the opinion (whether feigned for shitposting or not) that AoS looks like Warcraft is not a rare one. There are probably at least twelve different people in here that have that opinion, most likely more.

And you've posted shit all evidence, you just have screencaps from some other thread. I'm sure this nigga exists, I'm just pretty certain he's not here, and you're using him as a strawman because you can't back up your own arguments.

>>51743407
I dunno, Bolt Action seems pretty bad.

But yeah it's definitely total shit. It's like they took the amazing system of LotR and tore out everything that made it good.

>>51743347
>capeshit
I got a pretty strong AniMarvel vibe when I first saw AoS. It makes me sick to see what happened to the last fantasy universe that had the feel that WHF did.

>>51743403
>via the novels
>worst BL authors
>8+ rating

> "City of Secrets".
And where is anything interesting?

>>51743439
Bolt action is 3rd ed 40k with balance, and it's definitely way way better.

>>51743415
I am not arguing against his arguments. I am just pointing out that guys history so people would know what they are dealing with. We know his style, we know the words he always uses, etc. He is here.

If you are too stupid accept the evidence, then kindly screw off. It seems you want to argue just for the sake of argument.

>>51743487
>We
Who?

>>51743403
I've actually tried reading some of this stuff, for work related reasons.

The stories try at least to have real characters, but the world around them is just as much of a nonsensical, unengaging mishmash as it looks like on the surface. No matter how much fancy stuff is written about how Wizard City A is a fabulous mageocracy where prophecies are currency (not a bad idea), it still fails to present the sense of consistent world in which all this exists.

A for effort, but E for execution.

>>51743487
>We know his style, we know the words he always uses, etc.

...Unless you've simply attributed common complaints about AoS that many people share to this one guy as a way of coping with the game's poor reputation. Which you most likely have.

Also, this isn't your general, this is a thread about how uninspired and stupid Sigmarines are. I believe it is you that needs to screw off.

>>51743522
Dude, City of Secrets and the coming AoS novels in 2017 will focus primarily on ordinary folks ( hero in an upcoming novel is a Rat catcher) and world building. Since fans asked for it.

So they are giving you what you claim to want. Get to work already!

>>51743541
It's not his argument. It's the posting style that gives him away. Again. I am not attacking his argument. Notice that I did not go after the other guys going after AoS only that guy because I saw him flip flop and attack WHFB and AoS. Stop being moronic.

>>51743560
And I'm saying that no matter how bog standard they try to present the main character as, Excelsis the setting does not feel like it's part of a real, fleshed-out world.

>>51743580
I dunno, your examples don't seem consistent with anyone in this thread.

I get the impression that, despite claiming not to, you're conflating certain arguments with posting style. You can continue to believe otherwise, though, there's no real way of proving anything unless the shitposter wants to make some kind of grand confession.

>>51743588
So you are saying that you ain't even gonna give it a try? That you already formed an opinion and won't budge on it. So how are you going form an educated opinion or make factual statements like "AoS is only bad city and good city".

And for the sake of curiosity what AoS novels you read so far?

>>51743560
>Since fans asked for it.
Fans of what?
Also, did someone asked for another place which will be totally forgotten (for the setting) after book/series ended (like planets from Cain's books)?

As much as I love warhammer fantasy setting it was generic.
But it had some cool things
Like the forest elves just surviving in the turbo nightmare Black Forest
Nuns that turn into vampire where rather ok with it because they could treat the sick and travel in plagued areas without problems
Skavens

AoS is just generic

>>51743619
...The fact that I mentioned a specific place from one of these novels, and you didn't recognize it, doesn't make me very confident that you even believe what you're saying or expect these things to be good enough to read yourself.

>>51743663
You're deflecting. Just answer the question.

It's been months since I read anything AoS. When Season 2 ended, I went back to 40K. And I might have missed some novels. So jog my memory instead of strawmanning.

>>51743711
Season 1*

>company doesn't even force you to read what you are supposed to shill
it's not a bad job in the end

>>51743781
Is it really that hard to give names?

>>51743711
I tried reading the one about the Varanguard and Bear Eater.

I actually did read City of Secrets, which was by far the least shitty story. Without getting into spoilers, the problem with it, aside from the prose, is that it's basically the only reference for the setting of Excelsis, but it doesn't really address that setting through anything but generalities or make it feel like a grounded portion of a larger world. The overall concepts it throws about are cool at times, but there's no nitty-gritty, which is required when you don't have yonks of previously written fluff that has already informed your target audience about your setting.

Probably the most interesting thing about it was people not all loving Sigmarines. Which is... cool, I guess, but also feels weird, as in AoS the stakes are SO high and the conflict SO epic, it seems odd to have mixed feelings about literal avatars of goodness fighting on your behalf against soul-rending daemons.

>>51743803
Once again, you're assuming samefaggotry without cause.

The other guy you were talking to clearly wasn't being paid to shill, his opinion on the books is negative.

>>51740777
Explain this to me I don't play warmahordes

>>51743842
>it seems odd to have mixed feelings about literal avatars of goodness fighting on your behalf against soul-rending daemons.

Not really. Sigmar abandoned the realms to be raped by Chaos continuously for 300 years. There is a bit of hurt and mistrust over that.

>>51743560
>replace game table with massive dildo
>people complain
>put table back next to dildo
>People are still less happy than they were when there was no dildo

>>51743467
>metal and resin minis
let me know when they switch to plastic, I despise working with resin in metal as is in 40k

>>51743896
Gas the your dudes, warcasters now

>>51743990
wait what
do explain nigger

>>51743896
Huge shoulders and short-story based narrative, I guess. He's definitely not talking rules.

And the narrative thing is wrong anyway, Warmahordes started with an autistically detailed, expansive setting originally designed for pen&paper campaigns, and then went from there with its character-focused stories. With AoS, GW started with basically nothing, and seems to be trying to tailor its setting as they go along based on marketing figures.

>>51738080

Except there has been nothing to indicate that Vanguards are any different physically or experience wise from other Stormcast. They simply seem to be people who are good at scouting and attacking enemy supply lines rather than up front fighting.

Furthermore if they were going to port over the chapter organization of the Space Marines they could have done so now with the newest book. Instead they've gone with the system that the Stormcast have had from the beginning which is if anything a mix of SM Legion and Chapter organization.

>>51738181

A new edition would have likely been just as controversial since to save Fantasy they would have had to seriously reduce the amount of models you need for most armies and not be so blatant in rewarding you for taking huge amounts. They'd also have to reconfigure the mess of a system present in 40k and Fantasy which seems to exist to purely bog every single action down into minutia that gives the illusion of depth.

>>51740825

Vanguard armor actually appears somewhat different from other Stormcast armor. In addition I don't think it has been set in stone that Stormcast are all one size. If anything the bare faces might suggest that they're supposed to have more normal human like proportions either as a whole or depending on their role.

Additionally it appears they rely more on speed than they do stealth or for a few units possibly being able to attack from far away.

>>51742181

As someone who has seen Warcraft, I don't think it is much similar to the new AoS stuff at all. The AoS models are for the most part too uniform and not flashy with the purpose of making the model look like it's individual unless it's a hero and sometimes not even then.

>>51744035
what would this really mean for 40k then?

>>51744098
I don't know, he was being pretty vague.

Maybe he means less focus on 'your dudes' and more focus on in-story characters, like how in Warmahordes every army is lead by a named character and if that character dies you immediately lose.

Maybe he means more focus on synergies between units and tighter rules.

I dunno.

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>>51742386
>Iron Horde faction

Fuck you, I'm making Ironjawz as the Iron Horde, it's fucking awesome. You can represent every clan with minimal conversions.

>>51744141
I really,really, hope it's the latter, GW has brought back your dudes on the main site for christ sake, you can see custom paintjobs on several products, there is no way they would be dumb enough to axe that, then again.
>GW

>>51743634
the fuck are you even talking about? Nuns that turn into vampires? you're an idiot.

>>51738094
The game is decent, very watered down and easy to pick up.

AoS is to fantasy what Warhammer Quest is to DnD. It's much more watered down, a good pick up game to kill and hour or two, not much thought required which can be good or bad.

I enjoy it as a break from the more cumbersome 40k rules.

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>>51737987

Well, viewing this from another perspective;

>Being young´ish and not engaged in a hobby
>not knowing miniature wargames since before
>seeing AoS, in person or by recommendation
>mind blown as it is still leagues apart from traditional board games, and not a videogame

See, this is what GW is looking for. They ditched the old basement dwelling neckbeards that didn't spend enough to keep the hobby afloat, to sell stuff. You might not like it, but you can rest assured you're not part of the majority in this game when it comes to thoughts on the matter.
They sell far better than anticipated, and leagues better than WHFB, and thats what matters for just about any company.

>>51742337

Careful about saying that Fantasy was high fantasy or had elements of it, you'll upset the people who thought that toothless farmers who couldn't read were the main characters and focus.

>>51742587

Huh, I never made the connection between Sigmar's appearance in AoS and the armor of Valten, probably would have looked better if they stayed a little closer to it.

>>51742775

Anymore now I get more bird wings from Alarielle than I do angel.

>>51742301
It was not.

>>51742301
>oh noes, there is no official metaplot and I got to think of a timeline of my own
>instead let us kill this cool setting and create our own timeline
you are the cancer that is killing our hobby

>>51742760
post of the thread

>>51742358
I got into WFB at 3E though

>>51744439
it ain't your hobby fucktard. don't presume to speak for others.

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>>51742939

Dude, not that anon but I have posted on /tg/ since almost the beginning. Have played WHFB since early 3ed, and 40k since 2ed. I accept the reality as I'm not a fucking neckbeard living in a bubble in my moms basement, and I have thus advanced in to playing AoS (though I do have a fairly large High Elves army on squares still standing, just for oldhammer).
So you say I couldn't call anyone newfag because I chose to play AoS?

Stop being retarded anon, you embarrass the forum.

>>51743896
He means that the two games will be compatible, that AoS and 40k will have similar enough rules to have games played between the two, while being (technically) different settings. It's actually not hard to envision, and you can use the interference of Chaos, especially with AoS' new planes system, as a good excuse in plot.

In Warmahordes, the two games are divided mostly by how their armies work but the two rules systems are totally compatible. The major difference is tech level between a Warmachine or a Hordes faction.

>>51744512
>played WHFB since early 3ed, and 40k since 2ed
>I'm not a fucking neckbeard living in a bubble in my moms basement

sure thing buddy

>>51744152
That's actually pretty damn sexy.

>>51744670
>N-Nobody likes AoS

>>51743115
Something about the writing just turns me off. Even that first sentence:

>bitternthorn
>everoak
>lithe

Something is trying too hard.

>>51741641
no the setting was awesome and is also the reason total Warhammer is making so much dosh

people had a problem with some of the rules and editions only

>>51744801
Not mine but yeah, absolutely love it.

I actually got the idea of an Iron Horde army after seeing a brown Megaboss at the shop, making me think of the Magh'Ars, and I instantly had idea for almost every clan. Found this nifty little conversion while looking for some inspiration.

-Brutes for Blackrock
-Converted Warchanter without armour for Broken Hand
-Shaman for Shadowmoon
-Bonesplitterz for Bleeding Hollow
-Maybe GoreGruntas for Warsong
-Jackshit for the Frostwolves cus they weren't really part of the Iron Horde anyway.

>>51744655

Anyone who seriously believes this is a dumbass. The Realms of AoS aren't even an excuse because AoS' cosmology is so poorly defined that it would clash horribly with how GW at least attempts to cling to familiar concepts with 40k. The Eye of Terror somehow managing to engulf the entire Milky Way Galaxy isn't even an excuse since the Warp in 40k is portrayed as being the Realm of Chaos and the Realm of Chaos is an entirely separate thing in AoS.

I imagine that anyone who truly purports such a theory is either a dumbass, a shitposter, or a salty Fantasyfag who knows in their heart of hearts that GW will never do anything to mess too bad with what has been their golden goose for beyond a decade. A goose that shitted out even more eggs with the Horus Heresy.

>>51744219
Mordheim lore, there was a small story about a Sister of Sigmar that got turn into a vampire.

Not my problem you are underage

>>51745407
stop making stuff up fag. i've got all the Mordheim released and that was never a story. source or fuck off.

40kids whining about AoS

>Watch what happens when 8th Edition comes out

Why are people so threatened by AoS?

>>51745407
Ha, makes me think of the upcoming Vampyr vidya. WWI doctor coming back to London, at a moment of Spanish plague, but, being a Vampyr, he has to choose between his oath as a doctor, his human side, or his thirst to survive, his vampire side.

>>51745487

I want to say for a lot of people it's the fear that the lore will be messed with, even though there is a small chance of this happening and GW themselves has said this, whether you believe them or not.

I can't really understand the people who think 40k has better mechanics as a whole compared to AoS though. It has become a clusterfuck that is clunky due to some aspects of simulation and which arguably got even worse as things from Fantasy were incorporated and ideas that needed to be fixed some time ago.

Stuff like rend, dice being able to have modifiers, monsters and possibly behicles getting worse the more damage they receive, some version of AoS' summoning points, Formations costing points, a variable system for army building depending on overall points costs, and being able to pick traits and psychic powers would I feel only be beneficial for 40k. Could possibly even experiment with the idea of the same unit having a different base cost per model depending on its wargear.

>>51745469
Correct, it is not in the Mordheim but in the vampire lore. Lamhia bloodline or something like.

It's not like we care now about a squatted setting.

>>51744817
Yeah, that's part of AoS's writing style it seems.

I just roll with it. It makes writing shit about your dudes a little more engaging when you have to think of the most over-the-top wording without reading like an idiot's scrawl. It's a nice challenge.

>>51744817

Seems like typical fantasy fare.

>Hey space marines are popular in our other game
>Let's put them in this game too
>People will of course buy these two
And seems like they were right, pleb without any taste are buying them.
>Hey space marines are popular
>Let's put them back in the other game too
>AoS treatment for 40k too
Giggity why invent anything new when you can have fantasy-space-fantasy-space marines?

>>51742760
kek

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>>51737987
>The Empire died for this shit.

Reeeeeeee "incomprehensible wfb grognard schreeching" the thread.

>>51747271
Hello there typical AoS player, did you took your medicines today? You need all your mental capabilities for your potty training you know..

>>51745927
40K's current rules problems are mostly balance based. There is some bloat, but it's not fatal, and it's definitely worth paring down to AoS level of simplicity.

I have never been more bored in my life than when attempting to play AoS. There's just no sense that there's any difference between your dudes and your enemy's dudes - either way, you're both just trying roll 4's and occasionally 3's at each other.

All GW systems should instead take notes from LotR, where simulationism and efficiency were blended to perfection.

>>51747271
Stay in your general.

Pointing out that GW has run out of creativity isn't incomprehensible reeing, it's pretty much fact at this point.

>>51747537
>and it's definitely worth paring down to AoS level of simplicity

Definitely not, I meant to say.

>>51737987
I think....... they're much cooler and have more characterization than the regular Stormcast. The not!bolter is hillarious but i think i can tone it down a bit.

The only thing that really turns me down is that the fact there was an actual person in flesh inside. I always think they're somekind of reanimated armor, but still retain their past personality.

>>51747708
>fact there was an actual person in flesh inside
First thing that came to my mind: weren't they supposed to be some sort of encased souls?
Meh.. there can only be two scenarios, either GW isn't able to fllow its own background, or they are yet just another special snowflakes guys just because..

>>51737987
In the beginning, one of the arguments for replacing the Empire soldiers with Stormcast Soulmarines was because mortal men could not fight Chaos, This kinda invalidates that argument.

>>51744804
They don't, they tolerate it.

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>>51747537

If the bloat isn't trimmed away then the game is never going to get better because it's still going to be trying to continue off of a system that is decades old.

Perhaps there are things in AoS that are simple, but there is also shit in 40k that seems complex for the sake of being complex, like GW is trying to jack the player off with the idea that they're smart enough to play a game that probably requires them to at least look once at the basic rules per game.

You say AoS is all about rolling 3s and 4s, I say you look past the bullshit and realize that 40k is the same. My WS is better, I need to roll a 3, our WS is equal so I gotta roll a 4. My strength of 4 is higher than your 3 toughness so I have to roll a 3, my strength of 4 is equal to your toughness 4 so I have to roll a 4. Just cut the fucking middleman out and have set values and allows modifiers or abilities switch things up. AoS has shown that without a lot of other bullshit GW unclenches their ass enough that modifiers are more than a once in a blue moon event.

You also talk of LotR which honestly cut out a lot of the bullshit as well since it had fixed values and off the top of my head only really retained strength versus toughness.

>>51747780

No they weren't, at most GW flailed around with not saying what they were in their own books, allowing BL to do it.

This is from an early piece of art and you can clearly see flesh around the eyes. GW themselves did the first model with flesh on the Heraldor who is unarmored around his mouth. FW did the first Stormcast with no helmet whatsoever.

Why I imagine GW did this is because Stormcast have faces sculpted on to their helms and thus you could partly argue there is no reason for them to show actual flesh. It's also a sign of uniformity that fits well with how the Stormcast are described as fighting in lockstep with each other, can also be unsettling too.

>>51747890
It's a moot, half of the people are okay with it. My meta are roll with it because its lighter, and we're only in it to have fun, jobs and kids are already enought burden for our back.

It's even rekindle the fantasy meta back to life, after being dead for 7 years.

>>51738094
>but the lore seems fucking stupid.
it is beyond stupid m8, its shitty as fuck. Literally 0 interest on it.

I have no clue why they killed the old world, may as well just changed the game system and made an actual advancement to call it the age of sigmar.
Like perhaps the arrival of the sigmarites into the old world via new astral gates or some shit?

>>51744512
>I have posted on /tg/ since almost the beginning. Have played WHFB since early 3ed, and 40k since 2ed.
Sure dude.
>I'm not a fucking neckbeard living in a bubble in my moms basement, and I have thus advanced in to playing AoS
Sure, we all believe you.
Also, what are trying to imply, by it, that only neckbeards dislikes sigmarines and family friendly sterile 8+ game?
>>51747893
>look past the bullshit and realize that 40k is the same.
You are right, but core system still have huge potential.

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>>51745082
>A goose that shitted out even more eggs with the Horus Heresy.
>even more
kek

>>51743055
...do you think they're just fucking with us now?

Not even GW as a company, but just somebody in the development team who is like, "Let's see how blatant we can make this before I get caught," type of situation, either as a form of malicious compliance or for the lulz.

I know for a fact that shit happens all the time in my company.

>>51743974

...is it bad that I'd still be a little upset if the dildo were there in this particular example?

I mean, at that point the dildo is there just as a passive-aggressive holdover of the "fuck you" that originally happened.

>>51745082
>muh estabilished background and cosmology
>impling GW won't wipe it in an heartbeat if they think this will get them a dime more worth of clash
No one belived they were going to wipe an estabilished trademark like fantasy, but they did.
Now that people have defended their market choice and keep buying each round of poorly designed fantasy marines you are a deluded if you think 40k isn't going to get the AoS treatment.

>>51742536
Wait, THESE are the things people thing the Sylvaneth are ripped off from? I've been trying to figure it out but couldn't recall anything besides the big-ass ancients Nelves have, but it was such a stretch I thought nobody was that retarded. But now I see this comparison and I realize I was wrong.

>>51748808
>fucking company wars
>on /tg/

>>51751025
>>fucking company wars
Lolwut?
>>on /tg/
Hello newfag?

>>51751044
Yeah, you caught me. Just started posting last year, lurked for 2-3 years before that. I'm just tired of the "X-Wing's gonna kill 40k, RIP GW" shit. Yeah, of course X-Wing's going to outsell 40k Air-Fighty Spinoff: it's fucking Star Wars, that's like acting like Image is going to go belly-up because they aren't outselling DC.

>>51751060
GW already killed two of their 3 major brands, and appear to be getting ready to kill off the final one soon.

>>51751060
>"X-Wing's gonna kill 40k, RIP GW"
And I didn't implied something like this.
>Yeah, of course X-Wing's going to outsell 40k Air-Fighty Spinoff
It's outselling 40k outside GW stores.

>>51743979
Better Warlord metals than GW modern plastics. At least the former have decent sculptors

>>51751072
Give me hard proof. Not "Gathering Storm=End Times" speculation.

>>51751080
Once again: Image is never going to punch in the same class as DC short of a major market restructuring. I see 40k continuing as the niche game it has always been for the foreseeable future.

>>51744345
>They sell far better than anticipated, and leagues better than WHFB
They have released in one year for AoS more than they released in 5 for Fantasy. Of course it is selling better.

>>51751132
>40k continuing as the niche game it has always been
hahahah, oh wow
40k isn't niche game since 4th edition.
>>51751139
>They have released in one year for AoS more than they released in 5 for Fantasy.
Proofs?

>>51751157
In the overall world of gaming it is, especially since the rise of video gaming. How many people outside of the tradgame market could tell you what Warhammer 40k is? Some people who played DoW or the Space Marine vidya (and maybe some more now that Battlefleet Gothic: Armada has been unleashed upon the world), but nowhere near as many people as those who have at least a passing familiarity with Star Wars. When someone is looking to get into a new hobby they're unfamiliar with, they'll probably opt for something that's familiar to them than an unknown IP. That, and X-Wing is simply better designed and has a lower psychological fortitude threshold than 40k does ATM.

I'm probably burbling at this point and not making a lot of sense. Sorry.

>>51751208
>In the overall world of gaming it is, especially since the rise of video gaming.
It doesn't mean that 40k is a niche game, it's the whole indutry, yet still GW refocused on casuals and newcomers as their prime target audience long ago, because let's be honest, only newcomer will buy most of Citadel product line (like painting and hobby tools, terrain for 130$), poorly designed models just becase it's current meta, they wouldn't notice (since it's probably their first wargame expirience) how bad balance and rules.

I like how GW shot itself in the foot when it comes to Fantasy. So many games and minis on the market now that old WHFB doesn't scare competition anymore.

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>>51751139

Did you perhaps miss the end times? Or any other great campaign for that matter. That they did or didn't release stuff for "your special snowflake"-team is not the point.
So yea, they did release stuff, but all you ever heard from the "veterans" was that its
>to expensive!
>not good enough in game terms
>not belonging to my team, why does every other team gets releases but me?!?
And usually the threads went down the shitter with some Aussie screencap from GW´s homepage, ranting and raving on the harsh price tag.

>>51751414
>Did you perhaps miss the end times?
You mean the event about death of setting and wondering why none bought it?
>Or any other great campaign
Remind me "great campaign" in 8th ed except Blood of Sigmar? T&T? FW campaign?

>has a unique rich fantasy ip with wfb
>nukes it and replaces it with generic fantasy ip that all its competitors can do.
Slow clap.

>>51737987
I actually really like these stormcasts. Bonus points for finally having a model without the retarded helm.

>>51750181
Sylvanneth look straight ripped off Skyrim desu.
If you want to know something really weird im positive before AoS was released I made a post somewhere saying itd have a treeman faction. Imcluding big guys with bows. Then it happened.

>>51751414
>So yea, they did release stuff

Mostly giant awkward character/monster models. Which are the sort of things that won't appeal to everyone, and the people who they do appeal to, won't need to buy more than one. The stuff released during the End Times was never going to sell particularly well and wouldn't have done if it was released as part of AoS. Compared with the AoS regular infantry kits, which everyone who plays the faction they belong to will be buying, and will often need to buy multiples of.

>>51747893
>GW is trying to jack the player off with the idea that they're smart enough to play a game that probably requires them to at least look once at the basic rules per game.

I'm sorry, but if you can't memorize the basic rules to 40K, you are veggie tier.

>My strength of 4 is higher than your 3 toughness so I have to roll a 3, my strength of 4 is equal to your toughness 4 so I have to roll a 4.

What you're missing here is that the fact that both models' stats matter is significant. It means that you actually have to consider what you're doing when you make a move, whether your models can feasibly make an impact, etc. In AoS your models have the same killing power no matter what they face. And frankly, the range of dice rolls you need to make changes up far more in 40K than in AoS, and, as silly as it sounds... that is a good thing. It makes armies and models feel more distinct from another.

>You also talk of LotR which honestly cut out a lot of the bullshit as well since it had fixed values and off the top of my head only really retained strength versus toughness.

LotR had fixed values, but those fixed values were pitted against one another. Your Uruk had to roll with his WS against the other guy's Gondorian. This was great, it was a method for simulating combat that meant both models were involved and there was less faffing around with charts. On the other hand, in AoS, only your model's stats matter.

Set values the way AoS does it is boring and lacks engagement in the game. Even Warmahordes makes you roll your MAT against the enemy's DEF, which is heavily pared down compared to something like AoS, but still gives a level of involvement in the units you're using and makes the interaction between them important.

>>51744345
>They sell far better than anticipated

We don't actually have any evidence of this. GW's recent growth has coincided with them releasing all the fanboy wet dream stuff for 40K and bringing back actual bargain boxes, not with AoS.