/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>plain supremecy

>mage supremacy

>>51712734
>Do you think mageposters are Hubristic ?

Is it still Hubris if mageposters only cite the Truth?

>>51712734
>>51712731
1. There is literally no reason a Mage has to involve himself in Sleeper society in that way at all.

2. Even if a mage did decide to play Sorcerer Overlord, there's no reason he has to do it via mind-control.

>>51712783
>2. Even if a mage did decide to play Sorcerer Overlord, there's no reason he has to do it via mind-control.
the Seers are doing it fine without mind control
the profane urims do help though

>>51712734
>Do you think mageposters are Hubristic ?
i think there's a lot of ignorance coming from posters who declare "how things are" that comes from them reading what they want
not hubris, just regular pride with a narrow view

>>51712715
You can map them to the there attribute groups
Physical - Lara Croft, Indiana John Types
Mental - Book Worms, Wizards in their towers
Social - The Investigative reporters to the other splats

I would play Changeling the dreaming before with mage game

>>51712867

Get out of here you fucking fairy.

>>51712867
>>51712935
At least your animosity to them kills them. You don't even have to put any effort into it.

>>51712859

Mystagogues are less book worm, and more mad scientist performing live vivisections in his sanctum laboratory.

>magefags completely ignoring and auguring against the only remotely interesting thing about their splat
This is why Mage is the worst splat

>>51713022
>live vivisections
If you don't keep them alive and awake during it how can you truly discover the deeper mysteries?

>>51713024
>Muh personal horror!
>Man it sure sucks I have super powers!

The only splat in either WoD that ever did personal horror even slightly well was Vampire. All the others the "oh woe is me" is massively outweighed by how awesome it is to be that splat.

Altright I have a question.

With the different backstories and cosmologies they have (like Werewolf having Gaia VS Vampire having God), did White Wolf ever try to fit in all the OWOD settings together?

>>51713078
Yes. Mage the Ascension's metaplot unites them all in a weird kitchen sink mess because reality is defined by belief.

>>51713049
Thanks for proving me right

>>51713078
Because supernatural super-friends is a cool concept.

>>51713078

WW sometimes tried to reconcile the various oWOD games. The efforts were futile, and often exacerbated the problems. See, e.g., Blood Treachery.

>>51713022

It's a bit of both, actually. Book worms take the edge though, sorry.

Also Indiana Jones with magic sprinkled on top.

>>51713150
>Blood Treachery

Not even the worst one. The Week of Nightmares had the Technocracy kill a fucking Antediluvian using 5 dot Sphere effects.

>>51713126
>Because supernatural super-friends is a cool concept.

OK, now which one of you talks to fish?

>>51713166
The Spirit Nukes were 5 dot effects, the sunlight they used on him was under that.

it doesn't take much to kill an Ante, apparently.

>>51713033
>If you don't keep them alive and awake during it how can you truly discover the deeper mysteries?

Aren't the screams of agony good for a +2 Environmental or Sacrament Yantra?

>>51713166
>he Week of Nightmares had the Technocracy kill a fucking Antediluvian using 5 dot Sphere effects.

Weren't all the Technocratic Archmasters inexplicably and conveniently away on vacation or some executive retreat during the whole Apocalypse?

>>51713220

This is another thing to bring up. The Technocratic Union is chock full of planets entirely made of machines and fucking Dyson Spheres consuming stars bigger than our own sun. They invade the infinite Deep Umbra like the goddamn Borg.

Yet they didn't use a fraction of that power.

>Mage Supremacy

>>51713187
Can you still use soul stones to not cause paradox? Does this work for spells you've made 'vulgar' so they aren't wisdom sins?

>>51713220
No single Antediluvian is going to match a prepared Archmage

>>51713167
>OK, now which one of you talks to fish?

The mage obviously

Vampfags getting owned again?

>>51713220

The Technocratic Archmages are all in space. Why would they bother with a super-vampire back down on earth?

>>51713331
They might own property in the area.

>>51713344
They would let their subordinates deal with it. It only took 5 dots to take Zapathasura down.

Their property is beyond the earth at this point, anyway.

>>51711299
Sorry anon I stoped paying attention, hope you see this.

Indeed the first two dots of obtenebration are pretty shit. Specially compared to other powers like Dominate or Protean that get very useful after one or two dots. The higher Obtenebration powers, though, compensate the relative weakness of the first powers.

Also it's not like obtenebration 1 is completely useless, it's that your other two disciplines are better at level 1.

Can I make black holes with space?

>>51713386
>TFW your pet project that's been running on earth for decades get trampled by some ancient Gypsy.

>>51713444
You would need Forces for that.

>>51713444
I'm no scientist, but I would say no. Black holes are gravitational in nature and would therefore be under the purview of Forces.

>>51713444
You couldn't make them but with a simple trip to any of your friendly Technocratic outposts you could probably create a sympathetic portal to one (and then die).

>>51713444
Actual black holes are a function of gravity, and as such are Forces, most likely Archmaster tier. You could probably do something vaguely similar with Unmaking Space, depending on whether you describe it well enough to the ST.

>>51713444
You could turn the universe into a single gargantuan black hole with Forces 9, thus eliminating existence as we know it.

>Masters of the Art

>>51713444
>>51713524
Depending on what you want in a black hole, it's actually possible to make some portion of space inescapable with Space, at least for people.

>>51713444
Just hack CERN and use theirs.

>>51713444
I suppose you could jerry rig one up by making 'down' a single point in, let's say a room. Like other anons have said, you'll need Forces if you want the real deal.

>>51713549
Do you really think they care?

>>51713531

Would require one big fucking ritual for that, but it's entirely doable if you got the time to spare.

Or just turn the spell into an Artifact. You would only need a single success to blow up the universe whenever you wanted. ...Implying there's more than one universe.

That's bullshit guys, I can make black holes with Space

In fact I'm gonna go make all the black holes

>>51713444
Yes. There's even an example adept attack spell that creates a pseudo-singularity.

A true singularity would require mastery. Unmake the space and force all the matter in the area of the spell to collapse into a single point.

The schwarzchild radius of the resulting singularity would be minuscule and it would evaporate almost instantly in a pulse of radiation.

>>51713549
This invalidates nothing, Anon.

You are bloated with denial at this point.

You know the vampfags are fucked when the magefags pull out Masters of the Art

>>51713876
>Masters of the Art

Or Imperial Mysteries for CofD, although mages rarely need to resort to master-level spells to deal with the undead.

#ObrimosSupremacy
#MorosSupremacy

>>51713444
With the Practice of Unmaking you can collapse/destroy the Space inside an area into a singularity, essentially annihilating everything there.

Of course this won't generate the gravitation force you're looking for. For that, you'd need to collapse enough Matter for it to generate that all on its own (a staggering quantity) or use Forces.

>>51712734
Is Mage always gay, even if it's a feminine supremacy?

>>51714237
Gay, feminine, these things are tawdry illusions before Mage Supremacy.

>>51714248
Rose, stop avoiding the issue at hand and give Requiem its Methuselahs already...

>>51714260
Methuselahs aren't going to be the Archmage equivalent for Requiem.

I wish people would stop hoping.

Has anyone home-brewed any crown attainments for lesser ministries?

The Ruin. The Raptor, and The Nemesis sound cool and I want to use them in a game.

>>51714277
Dubs or not, fuck you

>>51714293
DaveB did the Chancellor and the Prophet in one of his RPGNet games, which led to other people posting their ideas later in the thread.

If only Unknown Armies was more popular to warrant a general

How smart/sapient are kinfolk wolves?

>>51714346
>Unknown Armies

HISSSSSSSSSSSS

>>51714336
You wouldn't happen to know which game?

>>51714361
I think it was the second thread of The Soul Cage.

>>51714346
>Unknown Armies
>"An occult game about broken people conspiring to fix the world"

Sounds dumb.

>>51714361
>>51714431

I found it.
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?428135-Mage-The-Awakening-The-Soul-Cage-part-two/page70

So a Demesnes is like one of the best investments you can ever make right? Like, it fucking annihilates the Sanctum merit.

Instead of increasing spell control while in your sanctum, you can just pay the infinite reach to just keep maintaining spell after spell.

As well as paying for instant casting, advanced duration, advanced potency, advanced scale, swapping factors, and activating all optional reach abilities?

Because bar a Sleeper witness or with an Inured spell, I don't think you can risk Paradox while in a Demesnes for your Path.

>>51714736
>Inured spell
>Demesnes
Can you still get Paradox this way?

>>51714802
Just checked, and no I was wrong.
An Inured spell doesn't risk Paradox in a Demesne or Verge.

>>51714702
Thanks.

>>51714839
Inured Living Vivisection Praxis here I come

>>51714736
If a spell leaves a Demesne it's still subject to paradox. So its not great for sympathetic casting or massive area of effects. It's great for enchanting, crafting, or buffing yourself.

>>51715011
Does it function if you're casting Sympathetically from one Verge to another?
e.g. Use a series of Verges or Demesnes as a Paradox-free Teleportation relay?

>>51715011
Also torture/magical exploration of living subjects.

>>51714978
Inuring is only two paradox dice. A dedicated tool is fine nine times out of ten.

>>51712783
>There is literally no reason a Mage has to involve himself in Sleeper society in any way at all.

There is no reason you have to involve your self in society as well.

>>51715033
t. Mysterium

Geee great..... sure it's not a "review" but still it sounds an awful lot like a recommendation to buy it an the expansion book you wrote for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KBf1cAqOFs&feature=youtu.be

Anybody got that collage of quotes from the old Black Hand book, including an image of a Werewolf and the line "God help us"?

>>51715080
It's not like sleepers are even real people.

>>51715031
Maybe? I'm not sure what's the question.

Can you teleport between verges/demesnes without paradox?

Yes. But paradox isn't a huge risk for self teleportation to begin with.

Can your sympathetically cast between verges/demesnes without paradox? In a verge? Sure. In a demesne? Fine, as long as there are not sleepers that have wondered in.

>>51715172
What I mean is that in a Demesne dissonance can still occur if there is a sleeper present. It just won't invoke paradox.

>>51714237
Mage is human supremacy because Mage is just humans taking back their birthright

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How serious/reliable is this map? If it's wrong, where is it wrong?

>>51715234
Aren't there a ton of werewolves hanging out in Europe

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>>51715089
>that opening three minutes or so of dialogue
Holy shit, and MacFarland tried to defend this game as NOT one massive masturbatory revenge fantasy or projection fest?

Fuck Beast.

>>51715283
Hangin doesn't mean control.

>>51715315
Fair enough but what about the whole middle chunk of america?

>>51715343
Dunno. Maybe it's unknown or maybe it's not populated enough for a vampire faction to control it (but not rural/foresty enough for wolves). How many people live there anyways?

Also in general it seems that the map mostly ignores Apocalypse and sticks to what Masquerade says about them. The other Fera nations are not even mentioned.

>>51715172
Also remember the spell needs to be able to be able to benefit from the demesne/verge to work paradox free.

As in you can't cast Force spells paradox free in a Life/Spirit Demesne

>>51715343
Completely abandoned and filled with nothing of value.

Just like the real world.

>Comic sans
Never heard of this before but it ain't lookin good.

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Reminder that werewovles are the only actual good guys that are trying to save the world even if they kind of suck at it

>>51715467
>kind of suck at it
They literally fuck it up every single fucking time. It's like the only splat fundamentally wrong about its own metaplot even at its end game.

>>51715294
I wonder if he intentionally showcased the mindset of your average Beast player. I couldn't bear to watch long enough to find out.

>man i'm such a creep
>if only people weren't so shallow they could see past my flaws and love me for the amazing person i really am
>it's not like i should work to improve myself or anything
>look at that chad over there
>picking up tons of chicks all the time in a bar
>those poor girls who come to bars expecting something other than one night stands for some reason
>fuck that guy for not meeting their expectations
>but most of all fuck him for shunning what i think i deserve
>better ruin his life

>>51715488
>It's like the only splat fundamentally wrong about its own metaplot even at its end game.
Wasn't it said somewhere that mages end game goal of ascension literally ends up pointlessly killing them because they return to whatever their shattered chunk actually is (I think it was like an archangel or something but I don't really remember)

>>51715490

Wait, seriously? Can you screencap this? I want to post this into my WoD group and laugh about it.

>>51715524
Ascension is a sucker's game in Awakening too, if you ask me. Archmastery seems like a happy middle.

>>51715422
>Vampires
>invade an Obrimos sanctum
>contains an Aetheric Demesne
>good times for the whole family

>>51715231
>Mage is human supremacy because Mage is just humans taking back their birthright

Mages, Making the Supernatural Great Again!

So if you wanted to run a somewhat balanced cross splat game would the best mix be early game werewolves, early game mages, mid level vampires and where ever the fuck Changelings fall into that?

>>51715689

You could run early Mage, early Princess, and 60xp Hunters, who get +1 XP for being Hunters.

>>51715584
You've got that backwards. Archmastery in Awakening is the honey trap, while Ascension is the real deal.

>>51715689
if you're going with 2e vampires/werewolves fit together the whole time with prometheans/changelings

demons and beasts on there own

and mages on there

>>51713078
Loosely. Everytime they tried it created more contradictory shenanigans. Ostensibly, everything existed in one 'world' but none of the cosmologies are compatible.

>>51715689
As a die-hard Mage supremacist, remove mages from that mix and everything else kinda sorts itself out.

>>51715938
>Ostensibly, everything existed in one 'world' but none of the cosmologies are compatible.
sure they do
god made it all (curse vampires), god is ascension
triat handle everything cuz god is hands off (mostly)

>>51715982
No, you've got it all wrong.

oWoD just isn't compatible, I'm sorry.

>>51716029
oh you're one of those

>>51715689
If you don't let the mages raise arcana higher than 2 or 3 ever they might stay balanced.

>>51715982

None of this is exactly canon, Anon.

>>51716106
>god made the universe
>not canon
right

>>51715490
My Beast group is nothing like that, but maybe I'm just lucky.

>>51716044
>one of those

A person who acknowledges common fucking sense?

>>51713078
>>51715938
>>51715982
>>51716029
>>51716106
Samuel Haight really helps bring it all together.

>>51716115
>mage made the universe

Fixed

>>51716115
You realize each gameline has their own idea of a godhead, right?

>>51715467
The only real good guys are those who take up the vigil anon.

>>51716196
They are like mages but better because they can innure any morality sin.

>>51716168
and some of them are wrong whoa or just misguided what are the odds
but they all fit in one cosmology

just because you're wrong and keep posting doesn't mean everyone else is

>>51712769
thinking you know the truth is hubris

'all that I know is that I know nothing'
mate that was plato king of atlantis, think you're smarter than plato?

>>51716230
Well aren't you retarded.

Adorable.

>>51716143
God made Man in his image, humans are the only creatures that have Avatars, therefore, God is a Mage.

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>>51716286
>Grow up
>Still on 4chan

>>51715601
Vampires don't invoke paradox. Which is a double edged sword. On one hand if you have a Mage bff w/ low wisdom you can reap the benefits of access to awakened magic (like a soda fountain of pure vitae). On the other hand there is a huge market for lawn-chairs right now.

Quick question about requiem 2nd I understand that fire arms will do bashing damage to anyone that not mortal but what about weapons of a higher caliber? The largest caliber they have listed is 30-06 and that does +5 but would it make sense if something higher would loop back around and do +1 lethal to vampires and aggravated to mortals? I would it be better if it just went to +6 +7 and so on?

>>51716835
Yes bashing will loop around to back lethal for vampires. I believe damage modifiers are caped at +5 to weapons.

Explosives normally do aggravated to mortals but I believe only lethal to vampires (the explosion not any residual fire) you could try that.

>>51715601
>Vampires invading Mage Sanctums

Don't make me laugh.

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A friend talked me into playing Dark Ages ghoul squire/seneschal under a Vampire lord. Knightly stuff mixed with fief management I guess.

Any suggestion for source material beside Ashen Knight anyone? About fief and what-knights-actually-did-day to day kind of things.

Can Vampires suffer the stunned tilt as normal?

>>51713152
Also dirty thieves going full Sly Cooper.

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>>51716925
>Obrimos allowing vampire to enter his sanctum

>>51717002
And a sprinkle of the SS.

>>51717039
God the Mysterium are great.

>>51716919
Ok so that does make some sense I was thinking of asking my ST if I knew the right people that I could get my hands on a higher caliber weapons (.50 Beowulf .500 S&W etc)

>>51717039
Indian Hermaphrodite SS, no less.

>>51717070
Tracer rounds, dragons breath shells, or a flame thrower. All of which are easier to get a hold of than you'd think.

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>>51717023
>Vampires requesting backup

>>51717113
Yeah I have that in mind too but its nice to have something else just in case right?

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>>51717113
Hell you can get tracers in pretty much every caliber . A vamp is gonna stop laughing at your m9 when its setting him on fire.

Of course Dragons Breath is for when you REALLY need a fangface dead

>>51717130
I believe you can still stun a vampire if they don't have fortitude. So if you can consistently do 5 damage a turn...

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>>51717117
>Obrimos
>Human Thermal Detonators

>>51717178
You can also buy a 'brush managementl tool' aka a flamethrower with a smaller fuel supply at most big box hardware stores for like a hundred bucks.

>>51717178
>Tracers
>True incendiary
Tracers aren't going to set vampires on fire, so that means no agg. You'd need API or WP rounds or something to even maybe do that.

>>51717238
They'd still be a lot more painful than regular rounds.

>>51717238
There's a gun range near my grandparents place that has a full auto day on the fourth of July. It is possible to set shit on fire with tracer rounds. It's just not as common as it is in the movies.

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>>51717238
>>51717178
>>51717194
As of right now I'm loading up on WP speaking to my gm about buying higher end rifles along with looking into hand loading if I can't get my hands on some of the other rounds. One way or the other someone is going to be in for a bad time next time the session comes around

>>51717254
They're not really hot enough to light flesh on fire. The effect tracers have compared to just the bullet impacting is negligible, even for vampires.

>>51717267
It is possible, but it's not common and requires materials that are already fairly flammable.

>>51717303

>requires materials that are already fairly flammable.

Like vampires?

>>51717269
If you're interested in 'realism' remember incendiary rounds greatly shorten the life of a gun barrel.

>>51717303
Dude Vamps can frenzy from a lighter and shit. Tracers wont set shit on fire but having anything remotely resembling fire inside them wouldnt be a good thing.

>>51717331
Is that why my Nosferatu weighs as much as a duck?

>>51717331
Vampires aren't super flammable, are they? To my knowledge their skin is the same flammability as a humans. It's just that being on fire does more to it than it does to a human's flesh. It's not like being touched by a lighter will make them erupt in to flame or something.

I'm gonna wrestle the power of the Abyss from the Old Man so I can access the Abyss arcanum

>>51717384

>not lighting your lantern with vitae

>>51717340
It's academic. They make incendiary rounds in most NATO calibers. If you can get your hands on tracer rounds it's not that much harder. Now our friends over at the ATF might be curious why you're buying cases of that kind of ammo but that's a different story.

>Rio going out to Kickstarter backers this week

Not a day goes by that I don't regret missing that Kickstarter.

>>51717384

Nah, Vampires are dry as shit.

>>51717387
The Old Man is quite possibly an ochemata of The Gate.

Good luck.

>>51717419
Not an Ochemata.

Aeon.

>>51717387
>I'm gonna wrestle the power of the Abyss from the Old Man so I can access the Abyss arcanum

What could go wrong...?

>>51717384
Are you trying to defend Vampires?

Mage looks at Vampy. Vampy dies. End of story.

>>51717444
That makes it better/easier how?

What's worse getting flung into one of the lower reaches or getting flung into the abyss?

>>51717456
>defending vampires
>being "that guy" at the Consilium meeting
>never getting invited to any cool mage parties

>>51717505
I hate vampires so fucking much, I want them all to die

Get the fuck out this is OUR general vampires don't belong

>>51717505
>Not wanting to casually commit warcrimes. >Shunned by counsilia.

At least the Seers are more honest about what they are.

>>51717546
Warcrimes is such a harsh word to throw around in the Consilium. I mean, they were just sleepers in my case.

In MAGE 2E, do you think it's intentional that you can get around the spell-stacking rules by casting spells on equipment?

e.g. With the Fate 3 Monkey's Paw spell, you can enchant an object to increase it's equipment bonus by +Potency, AND grant the wielder a Boon that directly increases the relevant skills by +Potency, for an effective 2xPotency bonus. At least, that's how it looks as-written, but that seems unintentional to me.

>>51717493
Well, unless you're an Archmaster (or have one on call) you're not coming back from either.

However I'd say that there are some survivable Lower Reaches, while there are no survivable Abyssal Realms.

This is of course, unless you're a Scelestus who'se been invited to the Abyss by an Annunaki for attunement to an Abyssal Watchtower.

>>51717643

Vampires are already dead, and the Convocation doesn't recognize the authority of The Hague.

Eradicating vampires is certainly not a war crime. It is a great and honorable public service that saves real lives (of actual living people).

#MagesAreTheGoodGuys

#KindredBurnLikeKindling

>>51717673

When two of the same bonuses apply, you only count the higher one. They don't stack.

>>51717673
Without a doubt.
The very first option on the Boons table is granting a positive dice pool modifier equal to potency. The writer (although he screwed the pooch by making Fate far too powerful) would have obviously been aware of this.
Plus one is an equipment bonus, the other is a universal dice pool modifier.
Quite different.

Also now Spell Stacking only prohibits spells enhancing the same thing. So two spells can't both increase Strength, but you can for example have two Augment Mind spells active increasing your Presence and Composure respectively.

>Autistic imaginary game power level dick measuring contests
It's like Goku vs. Superman all over again

>>51717748
Yep. The only exception is a legacy bonus and that's only temporary.

>>51717643
>war crimes
>sleepers

Killing large numbers of sleepers (or vampires) is no more a "war crime" than stepping on an ant hill.

-overhead at Mysterium Caucus meeting

>>51717748
Indeed. However in that case the boosts do stack because they go to different things. One to equipment bonus (to a max of 5, unless Reach is spent), the other straight to the dice pool.

>>51717748
Even though the person benefiting from the skill bonus isn't the subject of the spell granting the equipment bonus?

The text says that you cast it on an object, and it increases the equipment bonus that that object grants when someone uses it—which SOUNDS different from casting a spell on someone to directly increase their skill.

I don't think they should stack, but if they're not supposed to (or if they are supposed to stack, for some reason) I'd like to make sure I'm clear on the rules behind it.

>>51717698
Do you want to be soul-raped by unreality horrors? Or do you wan to be soul-raped by degenerate reality horrors?

>>51717765
Whoever is the most Mage-like wins

>>51717799

Without rereading the relevant rules, this is clearly a situation where a prudent ST would not permit stacking as a violation of the spirit of the rules.

Gaming the rules does not enhance actual role-playing, and confirms every bad stereotype of mage fans.

>>51717787
Oh god, this made me crack up.

Hubris is fucking funny sometimes.

>>51717546
>warcrimes
>sleepers actually trying to arrest and imprison an Awakened mage
>lol

>>51717765
>Superman
>Goku

>Superman wins


>And then Doctor Strange kills them both

>>51717787
And then they wonder why the Guardians keeping watching their every move.

>>51717883
Well, the witch-hunting Hunter organizations apparently stubbornly continue to exist, don't they have some success stories?

>>51717873
>Hubris is fucking funny sometimes

There's nothing funny about the need to eradicate those filthy pancryptia-inducing monkeys before they do even more damage to magic.

>>51717926
They specifically hunt unawakened hedge wizards. Like below proximi.

>>51717849
Thing is though, this is neither breaking the letter or spirit of the rules.
You are enhancing a tool by potency, to a maximum of 5 (bar Reach)
Then, if you spend additional reach, you grant whoever's wielding it at the time access to a Boon, of which one possible effect is increasing any dice pool by Potency.

Yes, if you're using +2 tool, and with a Potency of 3, that could very well grant you a total dice pool modifier of +6.
However that's hardly the most eggregious thing possible, Fate can do a LOT worse.

One off unspecified positive modifiers which aren't linked to increasing anything? Yeah, take the highest.
Use Magic to boost other factors such as attributes, skills, equipment bonuses? Those should stack, because you're doing different things.

The alternative is someone getting a Strength boost from a Thyrsus, a skill boost from a Mastigos, then getting handed a fateful sword by a Acanthus, and then the GM going off in a huff saying they can only benefit from one of those things.

>>51717926

Those goofy "witch hunters" spend most of their time hunting petty sorcerers, marginal mystics and poor excuses for magicians.

Why would the Wise eradicate these Hunters when they're so damned sad and entertaining.

>>51717965
Well, those are the ones they usually succeed with.
I could imagine with a bit of luck and a lot of skill they could take down a rather young, inexperienced, and hubristic Mage.

One more skilled than that probably wouldn't leave any clues the Hunters could actually chase down.

>>51717984
>take down a rather young, inexperienced, and hubristic Mage

>Kill an apprentice of a master mage
>regret actions for the remainder of their short, miserable and painful lives
>loved ones cannot even identify the body

>>51717984
Also, any kind of retaliation from mages would leave the "witch hunters" crazy, at best.

>>51718051
Hope that Master enjoys his falling Act of Hubris for impassioned mass murder.

According to Dave, the Awakened consider Duat to be a Lower Depth and the Arisen think of A'aru and the Supernal as being the same thing.

Huh.

>>51718062
Retaliation?
If the Mage was the kind of individual who gets himself into such trouble that a bunch of Hunters can take him down, then he likely flaunted all kinds of Consilium Laws, had nobody to help reel him back in, and dug his own grave long ago.

Any Mage that Hunters are able to take down is one nobody will likely miss.

>>51718073
>falling Act of Hubris for impassioned mass murder

Sometimes a mage's gotta do what a mage's gotta do

>>51717984
It's possible unlikely but possible. What about reprisal? Mundane humans will not really be able to do much against an Arrow kill team.

One of the many reasons why the various splats deal with the headache of an organized shadow government is for situations like this.

>>51718092
Isn't 'Lower Depth' mage-codeword for 'No fucking clue what/where the fuck this is'.

>>51718122
>Mundane humans will not really be able to do much against an Arrow kill team.

Mundane humans cannot deal with a snot-nosed, bleeding heart Libertine apprentice.

An experienced Arrow kill team would be like using a thermonuclear device to kill an ant.

Hello, I´m soon going to play my first werewolf game (oWoD), I´m familiar with the setting because I played other games, especially Vampire. I would like an opinion on this character I had in mind.
I wanted to create an introvert and really shy character, that is manly a bookworm, but with a vast knowledge of Law and Medicine as well as Occult and Ritualistic Knowledge.
So I choose to create a Metis Philodox that joined the Stargazer really recently.

The background so far is like this:

Famed member of the Black Furies is "dating" with a Glass Walker because of his smirk attitude and because no matter the opposites they seem to get really along. They do the mistake to conceive that horror dunno if on purpose or not, and after the Society was done with the parents (Father was forced to change city, Mother went on the run and is missing since) the fight went over his custody. The Furies wanted him for his value as an oracle, The GW just to increase their number, in the end the Furies won the struggle thanks to the intervention of a Stargazer judge, that decided that he would be in custody for the Furies, but he/she would personally take care of him. While being in Crinos form, he spent entire days listening to his mentor reading books, and when he was able to transform he was so happy to be able to finally hold a book with his hands that he spent an entire year keeping on reading on his own.
Due to his Metis nature he feels to demonstrate to be a valid member of the werewolf society by trying to be useful with his knowledge, and he is always fearing of failing and that everybody would think badly of him. He is also struggling with his predatory nature (he even has Mark of the predator as a flaw to make him cry when bunnies will try to flee from him)
My GM said that his choice of not going with the Furies will make him really hated by them, but I thing it will make the character more interesting.

>>51718144
It should be somewhere in the pastebin.

>>51718092
Well, it's not an unreasonable thought considering it kinda is a bastardised half-missing version of the underworld, and Mages can't tell if something IS a part of another mystical sphere, just that it's not Awakened.

And I can't imagine that the Arisen, given their lack of Supernal Truth senses would be able to determine the truth of what they're saying. Isn't A'aru like, impossible to access or something? Not an unreasonable basis to see some connection between that and the "inaccessible" Supernal.

I have to say though, any Arisen which knows that would probably be quite amiable to working with certain Mages... Or would want to kill them for their Heresy of using A'aru's power.

>>51718132
The lower depths are a group of degenerate dimensions missing one or more of the fundamental arcana as far below the fallen world as it is to the supernal.

You could have a literal cancer universe filled with unrestricted mutant growth because death has no sway, hells where there is no separation everything is located at the exact same location, etc.

>>51718172
>snot-nosed
>bleeding heart
>Libertine

Why the need for all the repetition?

#MysteriumSupremacy

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>>51717521
no

>>51718209
Sure, but I remember Dave mentioning that mages tended to file away whatever place they couldn't really understand or make sense of with the label of 'Lower Depth'. Mostly cause they're loath to simply say 'we don't know'.

>>51718185
>city nerd scoring with an amazon waifu

too fantastical even for WtA

>>51718092

I'm thinking that the plan for Mummy 2e is to have its cosmology click into Mage's. It'd be one way to smooth out the discrepancies.

>>51718103
Hunters aren't really a threat to Mages.

They're not really a threat to anyone.

>>51718261
>Mages
>'we don't know'.

Huh? Surely you mean "under investigation."

>>51718261
Oh I agree there's plenty Mages don't know or think they know more than they actually do. But the lower depths follow some form of replicable physical law no matter how twisted which is what separates them from abyssal realms or ephemeral planes.

>>51718278
>making Mummy more accessible

reeeee

I'm only mostly kidding.

>>51718280
Peripheral Mage Sight can't detect car bombs.
And Quiescence doesn't always fully strip memories from someone's mind, it just replaces them with a rational explanation.
Which might still include plenty of information about the Mage.

>>51712769
>>51713318
>>51713738
>>51713876
>>51713992
>>51714248
>>51715623
>>51715944
>>51716143
>>51717456
>>51717521
>>51717729
>>51717787
>>51717843
>>51717883
>>51717949
>>51717977
>>51718051

IGNORE BORING MAGEFAGGOTS
THEY CANNOT EVEN DEFEAT A PLAIN WITH A CELLPHONE
"YOU ARE BEING RECORDED"
ASPEL 2: ELECTRIC FAG-ALOO

Guys, what if the local Hunters are a mystery cult controlled by the Guardians to weed out upstarts?

>>51718331
>car bombs
Don't need Mage Sight to walk away from that one.

What's the matter? Too scared to confront an old bearded wizard, are we? Pathetic.

>>51718377
>What's the matter? Too scared to confront the man with godlike powers, are we? Pathetic.

>>51718389
>Not killing the families of god kings.

>>51718331
They're only getting one car bomb before supernal fury rains down on their heads. And that car bomb hinges on the target neither being an Acanthus or being friends with one.

>>51718280
Come on now. At the very least, they're certainly a threat to themselves.

>>51718364
Neat concept, could eventually have an arc where they realise they're being subtly manipulated by their own informants, and decide to go off on their own path (which ultimately was the Guardian intention, to create an independant cell which wouldn't need oversight, while they assemble the next one).

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>>51718342

>>51718405
Well yeah, but that's a possibility rather than a certainty.

>>51718431
You're grasping at straws here, Anon.

Take a deep breath.

>>51718405
Or assuming a splat notorious for it's paranoia uses a car instead of the myriad of other faster more secure ways to travel.

IGNORE MAGEFAGGOTS
ASPEL 2

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>>51718450
WE WILL NOT BE IGNORED

>>51718440
Anon, I'm just as much of a Magefag as you.
I just want you to realise that not everything is certain, and it's possible for Hunters to pose a threat in their own way to Mages.
Which while not a significant threat for a PC Cabal may provide an interesting change from habing to worry about more mystical threats, or a task asked of them by the Consilium.

Not everything's a Rank 5 Gulmoth bashing down your door, or a squad of Seer Sleepwalker hit-men buffed up to the gills with all manner of enhancement spells.

>>51718450
lmao these lesser supernaturals, man

Didn't Dave say flat out that Hunters lose big time against Mages and that they should just use hedge witches instead?

>>51718472
Don't even try, you're only making his power fantasy rage boner harder

>>51718491
No need, everything loses against mages

>>51718417
Reminder: Richard Spencer got punched right in the dummkopf and not one arrest has been made. lololololololololollololololol

>>51718491
>Not making the Timori a Tier 3 Awakened hunter organization

>>51718506
Is he a mage?

>>51718342
>>51718450

Nobody cares about Aspel anymore. Either post about something besides Mages or don't post at all.

Geist 2e's in Second Draft now, apparently. At this rate it's going to be out before Hunter 2e, that's pretty weird.

>>51718491
It was more like "fuck you, you can't get around Quiescence except through being supernatural yourself, or being a Sleepwalker".

It was in response to Hunterfags getting all taint torqued about not being able to perform reconicence or surveillance of a Mage's abilities.

Mages are monsters.

>>51718472
That's fine, so long as the fact that they are a minor bump to even a lone mage, let alone a cabal of them, is taken into account. The only way to make them more is to give them help from other mages, but then the threat isn't the hunters themselves, but the unknown mages backing them.

>>51718526

That's not exactly what he said. He mentioned that they would die very quickly against a true wizard.

>>51718540
Oh, I thought you were talking about a different thing he said.
But yes, he's right.
In most confrontations, the Hunters would be dead meat.
They'd have to play it VERY smart.

IGNORE MAGEFAGS
POINT A CELLPHONE AT THEM AND AN AMISH DUDE
ASPEL 2: ASPEL HARDER

>>51718514
No, he's a Nazi.

Punch a Nazi today. It makes liberals cry.

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>>51718557
You cannot win.

Give up, Anon.

Might as well join our glorious cause.

>>51718472
>Not everything's a Rank 5 Gulmoth bashing down your door, or a squad of Seer Sleepwalker hit-men buffed up to the gills with all manner of enhancement spells.

While true, all mages are paranoid motherfuckers, and if they assume they are under threat from Rank 5 Gulmoths and similar monstrosities, their defenses will certainly cover humans with delusions of grandeur.

>car bomb

>Paranoid Obrimos virtually immune to kinetic and incendiary attacks, but still ruins Obrimos' car
>*Very* angry Obrimos
>Painfully demonstrates to hunter insects what a "real" explosion looks like
>Casts "Apocalypse" on families of Hunters as a future warning
>Obrimos buys new set of rad wheels
>Obrimos incinerates some vampires just for fun

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>>51718573
>Implying Hitler wasn't a Mage

>>51718267
The GM was also doubting it, but he gave to everybody Fate 1 for free in the BG so I may as well take an advantage of it.

Any other opinions?

The magefags are just gorging themselves.

Stop replying. Starve them.

>>51718622

This is my daily life as a mage

It was a hot summer day and I was in my workout room benching 1200 pounds. My abs were flexing and girls within a 10 mile radius were getting wet. Once I was done with my daily 32 hour workout I called one of the bitches I know, Jessica. She is really damn hot and looks like a supermodel. SO I got into my Lamborghini Gallardo and revved it up to 40,000 RPM (this is an Italian import with special engine system). I got onto the freeway near my house and threw it into 8th gear, I hit about 600 mph and I could hear the sonic boom as I broke the sound barrier. As I was flooring it on the freeway like a bad ass, Jessica called me and said she wanted me to phuck her. So be it.

I came to a full stop from 700 mph in front of her house. These Ferrari's have top notch brakes, you know. So she gets out of the house and walks up to my Bugatti and starts eyeballing my dick. I could tell she was staring at it because when I looked at her I noticed she was looking at my dick. Booya.

Flash forward 10 minutes later. My 30 inch dick is going inside of her VAGINA, hitting them walls. I'm holding her entire body up with my left pinky as I'm phucking her and she has 30,000 orgasms. She looks me in the eyes and she says "harder." V-TEC just kicked in, yo. I blow my load so hard she falls off my dick. There had to have been about two pints of cum everywhere. People say I cum like a pornstar, I wouldn't disagree with them.

I throw her a towel so she can clean herself up then I do a triple backflip into my Maserati and drive home.

>>51718666
Nice try, Satan.

>Implying I'm not a Summer Court Changeling feeding on all this butthurt

>>51718505
>everything loses against mages

Except other mages and anti-reality horrors so monstrous they make werewolves shit themselves.

>>51718670

I just don't know how to even respond to this.

>>51718670
>I do a triple backflip into my Maserati and drive home.

Now this is where you ruined it anon, everyone knows that doing a triple backflip is impossible even for mages. Theres an entire legacy based around the mystical art of backflipping and they've only made it to 2. 2 and a half if they're having a good day.

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>>51718637
God knows what he was.

>>51718637
If he were a mage we'd be enjoying a jew free world right now.

>>51718666
Yes, my lord Satan.

From now on, let's all agree to skip over Mageposting like it isn't there. Fuck the Aspel cunts.

So! I got Inquisition in the post the other day. It's an older book, but it's chunky. Currently reading through history etc. - it's like Catholic righteousness on steroids. The interesting thing is that Inquisitors don't swear allegiance to the Catholic Church, they swear allegiance to the Inquisition itself. I keep expecting to hit an Appendix that says the entire organisation of the Society of Leopold is being manipulated by a Lasombra or something, but nothing yet.

>>51718670
The best thing about this is that a sufficiently unwise mage can do just about everything there. Sure, he'll leave a crapton of broken minds in his wake, but those were just sleepers so who cares.

>>51718688
Did you just reveal to us your big plan?

Foolish Changeling.

Deploying Acanthus to your location now.

>>51718670
>This is my daily life as a mage...

Crap... another one went Mad.

Call the Arrow and Guardians for cleap up.

I run Mage the way Dave hates the most.

No Horror, No power corrupts. Just Mages going aroung place studying Mysteries and gaining enlightenment and leaving Sleepers to their business politely.

>>51718780

BOOOOOOOOOOOORING

>>51718780
Do only aliens and non-humans awaken in your homebrew?

>>51718670
>Orphans of Proteus.jpg

>>51718780
Mage has horror?

>>51718814
Mage IS horror

...For you

>>51718814
Have you not read Intruders or Night Horrors? Lawnchair memes aside, Mage works just fine with regards to itself, just like all the other gamelines (except Beast).

>>51718670
Funny thing is that this stuff is pretty easy for a mage with life and force

>>51718780
>I run Mage the way Dave hates the most.

#PussyMages

#AwakenedThatPutYouToSleep

What´s the best version of Mage: the ascension? 2th or the 20th anniversary one?

>>51718846
>>51718843
>>51718819
>>51718814
>>51718832
No matter how much people try to shove the whole 'hubris' and 'power corrupts' line, the reality is that no one is ever going to look at Awakening as scary or bad.

>>51718874

A mix of Revised and M20. Don't play Ascension without tweaking it first.

>>51718878
But banishers were the best 1e characters...

>>51718874
Wouldn't you like to know?

See what I did there?

>>51718874
Mechanically? Neither.
Fluffwise? 2e, though I like large portions of 1e in my games [no metaplot, no avatar storm, etc]

>>51718878
Well, yeah. This is the World of Darkness, after all. If you don't have some kind of power, you're just waiting to get murderraped by whatever abomination you happen to cross paths with. Better to have a fighting chance, all else aside.

>>51718878
>What is the Abyss

>>51718920
>>51718891
>>51718894
I didn't say scary things couldn't happen to Mages, I'm saying Mages by and large don't work for personal horror in the same way being lets say, a vampire does.

>>51718937

...You think Vampires are scary? Girls get wet just thinking about them.

>>51718937

>personal horror

Not a thing, just a marketing term

>>51718944
Having to eat people is better personal horror then "You're so strong! You could do anything! Go eat babies!"

>>51718916
>Some muggle thug tries to mug a mage
>hilarity ensues
>body is never found

>>51718955
Personal horror is a meme

>>51718944
>Girls get wet just thinking about vampires

>Never been with a Thyrsus

>>51718955
>Go eat babies!
Why eat babies when you can eat other mages, not only are they the best splat, but the best tasting one too.

>>51718955
Drinking a couple pints of blood a night doesn't make you an irredeemable, figurative, monster. It's everything else you do.

But that's true for every splat.

>>51718989
The whole "The Beast" thing you've got to deal with doesn't help, though.

>>51718937
The horror of Mage comes from the very real fact that from now on, everything mundane that happens to them, or around them, is their choice. They've allowed these mundane things to happen, persist and run their course. They no longer have the excuse of simply shrugging and saying 'what can you do?', cause the answer to that now is 'a metric fuckload'. The question for mages is almost never 'can they?' because they very clearly can, it's always 'should they?'.

>>51719048
Thats not horror, thats just the thing that keeps Superman up at night. Unless you're some pathological altruist, that's not going to bother you.

>>51719048
I like to emphasize themes of helplessness or futility. I think it's very interesting that for all their power Mages are unable to make any meaningful positive change in the world. A situation that only gets worse as a Mage grows in power.

I also enjoy themes about hypocrisy and the 'TRUTH'. For a subculture that is so obsessed about revealing the true face of reality Mages lie, like a lot, they hoard secrets, they hide their true nature, they manipulate people, they misrepresent facts for political convenience, etc.

>>51719174
>Not hardcore LARPing

>>51719186
Dracula is that you?

>>51713078

IIRC, the Garou were originally some sort of angels who lost themselves to rage.

>>51719217
No but I'll suck his dick for a good mage book.

What are the sort of disagreements that a Lictor would be called in to settle?

One of my players wants his Silver Ladder character to be a Lictor, but I have no idea how much power that role is actually supposed to carry with it, what jurisdiction they're supposed to have, etc.

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>>51719174
>thats just the thing that keeps Superman up at night
That's a kind of horror idiot

>>51719301
I don't understand your memes

>>51719305
Its really not, at best it would inspire Spider-Man esq sentiments and a moral tendency in regards your magic.

Aka, the exact opposite of personal horror. Thinking "I'm super powerful, I better use this to help people" is the opposite of "I'm super powerful, better eat some babies"

>>51719325
I suggest you stop being a total fucking bitch

>>51719257
Depends on how much influence the Ladder has on the local Counscilia (Read: whatever you damn well feel like).

You're a wizard judge so it's probably going to be a bunch of minor stuff most of the time (Unsafe release of spells, disputes over hallows, destruction of property)

Awaken during Execution. Heirarch has execution stopped. Be part of a Suicide Squad Cabal

>>51719339
No thanks, cape movies suck

Planning to Run a Mage game where players only know base CofD. Planning to run them on a Obstacle course for Mage babbies to let them figure out how to Magic.

Is there an Uncle Ben and Aunt May to your Mage's Peter?

>>51719337
Or maybe you start being fucking scary.

>>51719384
>your Mage's Peter
Lewd

I feel like people who don't understand Mage's "horror" must have never played the game before.

Obviously it's not the same, "I'm-already-a-demon" shit that Vampire has going on, but if you run Mage as a simple superhero game you're just intentionally ignoring its themes.

>mage supremacy

>>51719427

>Obviously it's not the same, "I'm-already-a-demon" shit that Vampire has going on

Playing as a vampire doesn't necessarily mean you're a demon. Now, playing Demon (the Fallen) does mean you are a Demon.

>>51719384
His Uncle Ben was an Artifact he failed to protect, and his Aunt May is his Daimon.

>>51719446
Point is, every game line encourages a different kind of horror. Comparisons like >>51718955 are pretty silly.

>>51719427
Its because the themes are ridiculous. Power CAN corrupt, but it doesn't follow universally enough to make Mages as a splat a group of monsters.

>>51719446
>playing Demon (the Fallen) does mean you are a Demon

No, it means you're a robot.

>>51719491

Anon, I specifically added "the Fallen" part so there wouldn't be any mix up with Descent.

>>51719427
The horror in Mage comes from realizing that the traditions are the bad guys who want to plunge the world into a pre-medieval hellhole.

>>51719508
That's Ascension, he clearly means Awakening.

>>51719325
No, it's more 'I'm super powerful, I can use this to further my goals' (whatever those goals may be). Another important question to ask of the game, for Storytellers especially, is 'and then what?'. If one keeps glossing over how they go about using magic or their new connections to solve their mundane problems, it's doing the game a disservice. Supernal magic is clearly *not* consequence free, unless the mage is very, very unwise or crazy. It will almost always solve the problem in front of you, trivially even, but then you ask 'and then what?'. This doesn't mean the ST's suppose to make up utter bullshit to pile on the mage cause how dare they use their actual powers listed in the book in a way it was meant to. Make the mundane problems of mages seem trivial to solve (because they are. Mages have a *fix it* button they can press at will) and see just how far your players are willing to take it, just what they're willing to do and justify. And never stop asking and elaborating on 'And then what?'.

>>51719508
>What are the Sons of Ether

>>51719544
Compatriots that never should have left the Technocracy.

>>51719480
I don't know, man.

I have a group I ran Hunter with, and they were horrified when they accidentally killed somebody a whole seven sessions into the game (the first death of an "innocent" person they'd caused).

When I ran Mage for them, in the second session they mind-controlled a man to shoot himself while his friends watched, then stopped another person's heart, commanded a swarm of rats to attack him, and cut off his arm with a fire axe.

Among the game's many themes, "power corrupts" seems like it clicks pretty easily.

>>51719591

Mage will do that for you

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>>51719565
The Technocracy defied the mission of the Order of Reason and ended up becoming the same as the Hermetics they despised and overthrew to start with.

The Order of Reason was founded to improve the quality of life for Sleepers, comprehend and catalogue the universe, and defend mankind from the supernatural. They wanted to avoid a world ruled by a shadowy clique of superhumans obsessing over trite ideology and esoteric wisdom.

And yet that is exactly what the Technocracy has become. Its completely betrayed the Order's ideals of a free Mankind in favor of a world controlled by THEM.

We could have had jetpacks, but the Technocracy didn't trust the Sleepers.

We could have had free energy, but the Technocracy didn't trust the Sleepers.

We could have had flying cars and ray guns and food in pill form, but the Technocracy didn't trust the Sleepers.

We could have expanded into space, and made a new life among the stars, but the Technocracy, in its infinite wisdom, decided only the few, only the elect, only THEY could decide what is best for Mankind.

Vampiric cabals, Hermetic archmagi, arrogant martial artists and tyrannical bishops cast to the way side in the name of Science, only to make room for shadowy half-men in suits, ruling over a quickly fossilizing reality on the path to annihilation.

What a bitter end.

>>51719591

What the heck is wrong with your players?

All that, and they didn't set a single person on fire?

For shame...

>>51719645
This is the reality everyone literally chose, so go cry to someone else.

>>51719666
They don't have an Obrimos.

>>51719802

>>51719427
Metal Gear blows

>>51719687

No Obrimos?

How can that be? Who in the cabal torches vampires for shits and giggles, does the Neo thing with bullets or hacks sleeper cell phones? What kind of cabal has no one to control gravity or the weather?

Best recruit an npc Obrimos before you're the laughing stock of the Consilium.

>>51719836
They're a new cabal. Only three members right now. No Morose either, which I bet they're regretting, since a lot of the people who could answer their questions are dead at this point...

>>51719888

No Moros OR Obrimos?

Dear god, that better be remedied quickly or the local undead might get ideas. No one likes uppity vampires.

At least you have an Acanthus. That should tide you over while you recruit some more firepower.

>>51717521
>I hate vampires so fucking much, I want them all to die
Chill out Anon, they are already dead.

>>51718670
Yeah typical Mage's day.

>>51714572
It is

>>51715234
It lacks the Ashirra for vampires
Also, why are there no Kuei-jin in Korea and Japan?
And many were-territories are missing

>>51718399
>being a god king
>caring about some mortals that you used to care about while you were mundane
pls, anon