/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51699370
Never

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So these guys are part of the Technocracy, right?

>>51699526
Why are they so ugly?

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What's the best way to kill a Silver Fang?

I'm only asking for.... reasons.

>>51699563
Wouldn't Silver Buckshot do the job?

>>51699563

Get a Mage to do it.

>>51699557

Failed plastic surgery

Any wretch who voluntarily fornicates with the undead has debased their soul and should be incinerated along with their wyrm whore.

Suffer not such necrophilic abominations, as they are an affront to God and Man.

- Jophiel, Obrimos Master, Perfected Adept, Adamant Sage of the Adamantine Arrow, Chief Sentinel of the Austin Consilium

>>51699370
My character is obsessively in love with another character to the point that they share the blood bond. Unfortunately, their steady psychological degeneration will most likely combine with their obsession to get folks killed.

>>51699563
Tell the Get of Fenris that he was shittalking them.
Tell the Black Furies that he beats women.
Tell the Wendigo that he beats up injuns.
Tell the Shadow Lords that he's a strong political force in a region.
Tell the Fiana that he bullies fae.

>>51699695
tell the glasswalker that he uses an iphone 2
tell the bone gnawers that he was mean to a bum
tell the Silent Striders that he has a love affair with a vampire
tell Sam Haight that his fur would be a really nice coat

>>51699563

Find dirt on him and get him judge and exiled or find a way to permanently neuter him. There 2 things that a silver fang cares about their legacy and their afterlife. Fuck both and you will break him.

>>51699607
how do Awakening Mages know about the Wyrm?

>>51699563
Betray him to the Black Spiral Dancers. Nothing can go wrong

>>51699810

It was lowercase "wyrm," and its common expression in supernatural parlance. For instance, recall how the Ordo Dracul refer to supernatural haunts as Wyrm's Nests.

Jophiel was simply insulting vampires. Not everything is a callback to oWOD.

>>51699902
>insulting vampires
a good man

>>51699607

Jophiel sounds like a blast at parties...

I assume her opinion on werewolf action is akin to bestiality, and as with her solutions to other issues in prior threads, requires incineration of all parties?

>tfw no Black Spiral Dancer waifu

>>51699964
>>51699964
All fairly reasonable to me. Burn the necrophiliacs and animal fuckers, I say. Throw the sleepers in with them while we're at it.

- Random Mystagogue, when asked to weigh in on the matter.

>>51699997

Poor guy will never get pegged to death by an insane transgender she-bitch

>>51699964

No, she wouldn't incinerate someone just for sleeping with a werewolf. Jophiel only really *hates* vampires. In her backstory, a vampire killed her sister and her near death in the same attack triggered her Awakening.

However, she's religious and pretty conservative, even for an Obrimos, and I imagine she'd find the thought of sexual relations with shapechanging half-spirit, range-filled beasts to be both unwise and quite repulsive.

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>>51699997
I don't think you're tuff enuff

And all this big-titted dominatrix werwolves and extradimensional space stations are really making me wonder how WoD was ever considered a straight "personal horror" setting

>>51700095
A man can dream.

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>>51700115

>>51699607
>>51699964
>Obrimos
>happily incinerates monsters and those who cavort with them

I'm good with that.

>>51700211
>>51699607
>>51700098

Until the day she meets a genuinely nice Vampire. Don't tell me ALL Vampires are dicks.

>>51700091
>>51700098

Would changeling, beast or demon sex also be also considered "unnatural," and thus warrant death by Aetheric fire like vampires and werewolves?

>>51700265
Yes.

>>51700243
They all kinda are if they manage to survive in vampire society

>>51700243

Jophiel would not spend a single moment getting to know a vampire, and to the extent one might ever be "nice," should would consider it a great and generous mercy to quickly end its torment due its pathetic and unnatural existence.

If there's any problem. God will surely sort it out.

>>51700243
show me one that does not deserve death

>>51700243
Oh look, it's a #notallvampires VRA cucklet. Get out of here - your kind has no place in SJWoD.

>>51699557
Pissed off Tzimisce domitor

>>51700335
>>51700343
>>51700379

Why do you Magefags hate Vampire so much?!

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>>51700418

>implying the antediluvians don't fear the bogdanoffs

>>51700433
>implying that one must be a magefag to hate vampires
The only thing that likes vampires are Beasts

>>51700433
butthurt that vampire is vastly more popular then their poorly balanced game

>>51700265

I have not considered Jophiel's position on relations with beasts, demons or changelings.

I believe beasts would invoke nearly the same response as vampires (particularly since I detest the splat). She would teach them her own "lesson," tempered in celestial fire and heavenly lightning, that they shouldn't fuck with sleepers under her protection, literally and figuratively.

With changelings, it would probably depend on the individual, and since magic can pierce the mask, whether they're still sufficiently "human." Jophiel would likely find changeling sex to be more sad and pathetic than incineration-worthy, or something a young mage might "experiment" with while an apprentice until they "grow up."

I need to think more about Demons, as the God Machine doesn't exist in my chronicle. However, to Jophiel, I believe demon sex would be like sleeping with a robot. It a mage wishes to use an artificial sexual aid or toy for their own amusement in the privacy of their own sanctum, it would be none of her concern (unless the demon cavorts with vampires, then it's incineration time).

>>51700433
Not a magefag, vampcuck - just hate your faux-Anne Rice cock-smoking Caine-rimming gameline.

>>51700433

Actually, I don't hate vampires, and play Requiem.

However, since the OP was about supernatural romance, ragging on vampires is to be expected.

Jophiel was also just an old NPC, and I though a vampire attack would make a good backstory for an Obrimos. She's simply fun for my in-character posts about vampires.

>>51700667
Jophiel is always fun to hear about.

Important question though, is her physical appearance as hot as her burning passion for incinerating blood drinking abominations?

>>51700698

Jophiel has always been very attractive (Striking Look 1, Presence 4). That's one of the reasons the vampire was originally attracted to her and her sister.

However, one does not become a master of the Arcana and Adamant Sage overnight. Even though she's a master of Forces and Adept at Prime and Life (she's a Perfected Adept), her true age is slowly beginning to show, and she would never consider doing anything Unwise maintain her beauty.

Think of Jophiel as a MILF - Mage I'd Like to Fuck.

>>51700588
>demon sex would be like sleeping with a robot.

I'm curious how a demon would feel being compared sexually to little more than sentient vibrator.

>>51700832
>Think of Jophiel as a MILF - Mage I'd Like to Fuck.
Nice.

If one of my players takes invincibility with a weakness to electricity, which then disables it for the scene. How cheesy is it for things to frequently attempt to electrocute his cyborg ass?

How'd he get invincibility?
Also only throw electricity at him when it makes sense, or when someone who wants to disable his invincibility hears about it and uses it against him.

Just remember, some people carry tasers for self-defence.

>>51700939
Why was invincibility even made available if you didn't want an invincible player? Honest question here, cause this sounds like a potential waste of time for everyone at your table.

>>51701018
>How'd he get invincibility?
By having most of his body replaced with high tech robot parts from Iteration X.

>>51701031
He said frequently Anon, not constantly.
Plus having an Achillies Heel is classic.
Like, literally.

>>51701018
>some people carry tasers for self-defence

Or are Obrimos!

>>51701031
Its not that I don't want one, I'm trying to find a good balance and I'm not sure how common electricity should be. Not everything should be solvable with a plasma cannon after all.

>>51701040
Kudos to him for joining the winning team, Anon.

>>51701066
Iteration X Anon, he's playing Ascension.

>>51701040

How do they make him invulnerable, exactly?

>>51701099
>TO THE NOTES
It appears to be part of the cybernetic enhancements, we concluded he generates a highly tuned electrical field that protects him but is easily disturbed by electrical interference, leaving just his enhanced skeletal structure to protect him until he can be subjected to proper lab repair.

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Just for academic purposes, how would one get out of a bargain made with a Gulmoth?

>>51701170

Does the field only stop physical attacks? Does it zap anyone trying to stab/claw him? Try fire, mind attacks/control, life magic to make his body reject his cybernetics, or hitting him with a car or explosives. Even if they get zapped a werewolf or a vampire could probably shrug it off.

Obviously fuck him with permanent paradox too.

>>51701205
Loop holes and firepower. Alternatively, figure out its bane and use that against it

can anyone direct me to the CofD discord sever? Someone posted in the last thread to message them for it but they can't receive from non-friends.

User is Shada#1090

>>51701291

I don't know why they aren't just open and in the OP.

>>51701205
You're well and truly fucked. Might as well jump down the rabbit hole deep enough that you come out the other side. Reality no longer holds the answers you need, maybe anti-reality does. May even find a better one if you're lucky.

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>>51701205
You know what they say anon.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

>>51700832
I want to use your NPC.

You should do a write up for her like the NPCs in the books get.

>>51701307
probably because only a server owner can post a perm link and the OP is just a random person more or less every time

Tips for running promethean 2e as my first cofd game tg?

>>51701361

then just copy the permanent link and put it in the new OP

>>51701391
Well then whoever owns the server should get on that.

>>51701387
Reminder to do literally everything you can to make people's lives uncomfortable at the least while being a promethean. At the very least it will always be uncomfortable, and quickly can go from uncomfortable to horrifying amounts of suffering, whether from Disquiet or from hunting down sources of Pyros that align with their Humors.

To make the concept of Promethean work they can have no allies besides their own kind, and MAYBE those who have transcended the Promethean condition. Every problem also needs a reminder that this would not happen if they were human, or hell, even Something Else.

And be prepared for someone to pull off becoming Human while another doesn't. It will happen.

Other than that, make sure your Players remember that a Promethean's emotions are literally stunted. A Frankenstein's anger and spite will always taint every emotion save for that thing that reminds them why they keep going for humanity (their Elpis touchstone).

Don't be stingy with Vitriol, but don't be too generous. Reward it for actions and lessons that are a fundamental part of being human, as well as when characters find the depths of their emotions.

>>51701515
Also, for an added layer of grit to the game, remember that being human =/= being moral or good. Its a complex and varied experience where people will occasionally will find themselves doing awful things and having to live with that

>>51701248
>Ideas
I'll note these down and see how I can fit them in, thanks.
>Obviously fuck him with permanent paradox too
His base paradox pool in a reality zone less than friendly to his cybernetics is 10. I plan on using that a lot.

How do swarms work in Chronicles?

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So a few days ago I asked for some help on how to play vampire the requiem 2ed as someone who was somewhat skilled in firearms hand loading ammo and traps. Today had my first game and things went a bit sideways at start of the game one of the other players somehow (with the gm's go ahead with me not knowing it) kidnapped my PC's wife and took her to his covenant leader for some reason. ( I also don't know what covenant he belongs to either ). The reason why I think this happen was during the week to start of the first session the player in question didn't like the idea of someone having firearms as a skill and got pretty upset over it. I asked the gm ahead of time if he was alright me hand loading stuff learning to make traps that was effective vs vampires so I don't know where this is really going over all. But the question is how should I go about this? I have 4 dots in resources and I can pretty much buy anything I want outside a few things but everything does sound a bit fucked either way. I'm pretty sure the player wants to prove a point (I don't know why) but if I did or "can" kill him I still have to worry about his leader that wanted my wife for whatever the reason.

>>51701825
Wait one of the players is so mad about you having firearms as a skill he kidnapped your characters wife? Thats so fucking autistic I love it.

>>51701825

bankroll some hunters and fuck his ass

Random question: How fast can a Vampire run when using Celerity?

>>51701825
Have you tried talking to the player about it? This sounds like it might be as much an out of game issue as an in game one and also I'm just really curious what this guy's deal is.

>>51701848
Yes.
>>51701853
I might do that but I want to see if I could handle this personally first
>>51701866
The player tends to be offline when ever we don't play. I know sure he was really hyping up his claws and him playing a gangrel but I don't know much outside of that.

>>51701825
>I'm pretty sure the player wants to prove a point (I don't know why) but if I did or "can" kill him I still have to worry about his leader that wanted my wife for whatever the reason.
Fuck your wife, kill the whiny autist.

>>51701905
Handle it personally by killing him.

>>51701909
Now heres the thing I'm more then down with just fucking killing the guy and even going as far for looking for his leader and trying to kill him because I rather not back down at this point its just more of a question of how I should do it I don't mind getting some hunters on him but I want to tip the odds in my favor much as possible I checked if I could get my hands on some white phosphorus so I will most likely use that the next time I see him

>>51701946
The player right?

>>51701973
Get the Hunters and the phosphorous. Supply the Hunters with it as well as yourself.

Kill him, then his leader. In fact go ahead and wage war on his covenant. Purge them from the city.

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>>51701317
That's... Helpful.

>>51701340
>I want to use your NPC.

Feel free to use Jophiel or a NPC similar to her any way you wish. I'm glad you like her.

Since she's a well-known group favorite NPC, I haven't actually bothered with complete and detailed stats for her in very long while.

All you really need to know is that if you're a vampire (or most anything else besides a mage), you're probably really screwed.

>>51702042
I start thinking up a plan over the week then.

Which version of MTAs is the best/least terrible one?

>>51702398

revised if you are okay with restricting things like the avatar storm, otherwise 2e

m20 is by far the absolute worst

>>51702398
The one that embraces the purple paradigm as correct and doesn't have you play a willfully ignorant tosser play-pretending with props and costumes.

>>51702482
That sounds like a super boring flavorless magic system.

>>51702482
You must have loved m20 then.

>>51702523
>>51702543
I'm fine with flavorful magic so long as it's not deluded cosplayers playacting while purposefully ignoring the purple elephant in the room.

>>51702677
How do you feel about the Pillar system in Dark Ages?

I hope Magefags tear themselves alpart with that Yantra debate they have. Just shows how anal they are about getting power

>>51702803
Man you're right, we should stop arguing about that and get back to talking about how fucking pathetic werewolves and vampires are, and trying to explain away all their mystery and find a nice little bubble for them in our cosmology.

>>51702803

Ironically, most of the Mage fans like myself are arguing for the current rules limiting Yantras.

"Mage supremacy" is hardly at risk if mages are unable to get a +1 spellcasting bonus using every knick knack or bit of detritus they can find.

>>51703044

Single Yantras are reflexive, and some can have a whopping +5 bonus. I do love large dice pools.

>>51703179

The very few single large dice pool Yantras are either Rotes or are very semiotically limited (e.g., Shadow Name).

Also, what Yantra besides a Rote can potentially be +5? Even Shadow Name + Cabal Theme tops at +4.

>>51703179
If you want a big dice pool you just cast ritually.

>>51703324

Standard ritual time doesn't add any spellcasting bonuses in 2e. Adding a full ritual time increment only adds a +1 (up to +5), but it's really time (and health) prohibitive until high Gnosis levels.

>>51703348
>up to +5
This is the big dice pool I was talking about.

It stops being a big deal at Gnosis 3 and becomes a joke as you get higher.

>>51703358

Ritual time increase bonuses are also not Yantras, and don't count toward Yantra limits.

It doesn't do much for younger or inexperienced mages, but adepts and masters can be freakin' terrifying if they have the time and inclination to screw with you.

>>51703385
>Implying that Masters aren't already terrifying in white-room scenarios

Are Circle of the Crone rituals any good? I've read them, and all have found only 2 good rites. One that allows you to shapeshift into an animal, and another one that gives you some advantages on dices.
And all that fir the cost of vitae, willpower and hours of dancing.
WTF I'd rather put those dots into Coils or Disciplines.

>>51703450

Masters mages have no need for white rooms to be terrifying opponents.

Even the weakest master has a minimum of a ten dice spellcasting pool (Gnosis 5 + Arcana 5) without any Rotes or Yantras, and has access to Making and Unmaking spells or 4 dots spells with two free Reach. When you then consider praxes, yantras, attainments, magical items, etc., that most high-level mages possess, no less other mage allies, they become beings that are not to be fucked with under any circumstances by anyone.

>>51703606
Also a Master Mage has 5 automatic primary spell factors, before a single negative dice pool modifier.

5

>>51703606
Don't Making and Unmaking only have one free reach? Isn't free reach equal to dots meeting and exceeding the minimum requirment? If you have Arcana 5 you meet requirements of an Making/Unmaking spell so one free reach.

>>51703733

Even if the master screws up his spell, the effects of his Paradox pool will probably kill you if he chooses to release it.

>>51703764

Yes, a master will normally only have one free Reach when casting a level 5 spell.

>>51703786
But why did you say a Master has 2 free reach to play with for making/unmaking?

Do you guys use tokens of any kind to represent Reach? You have a pool of free reach token based on each arcana. If yo need go over free reach, you take from the paradox reach pool and which the ST grabs from for every one you get.

>>51703798

No, a master will have 2 free Reach when using any adept-level spell such as an Unraveling effect.

For instance, not counting attainments, a Forces master can employ an instant undodgeable lightning bolt or fireball with a minimum of 5 damage before any Reach needed to risk Paradox, and a *minimum* 10+ dicepool to begin to add damage, area of effect, etc. Add Yantras, rotes, praxes, etc., and he can instantly incinerate most anything will little risk to himself or need to employ master-level Practices. Terrifying.

>>51703774
Masters only screw up worse than other Mages when they're over-reaching.

>>51703980
Paradox can also be dealt with

>>51703839
That sounds needlessly complicated for what is essentially basic addition and subtraction.

>>51704000
Masters can also invite Paradox into their spells much more proficiently than other, less powerful Mages...

>>51704014

"Master supremacy," while accurate, just seems a little redundant.

Well, back to #magesupremacy .

>>51704001
Its pretty though.

>>51704001
>basic addition and subtraction
Reach would have to recalculated each time which would be helped more by a chart than a token system. there is a chart in the spell casting appendix I believe

the point of token chips is as a visualization of resources. The practice helps players keep track of will and fuel. Unless you like go full john wick candy as blood points aren't a bad way to go

>mage supremacy

When did the Mage supremacist movement start, exactly?

Longterm step #1 for a mage is to become immortal. How do they do it? Do they just need Life 5?

>>51704174
>When did the Mage supremacist movement start

In 1993, the day after the release of Mage: The Ascension 1e.

>>51704237

Non-archmage immortality is relatively easy, but complicated.

Immortality requires terrible acts (e.g., soul, body and life theft, etc. ) or relinquishing a mage's humanity (e.g., becoming a spirit, ghost, etc.). All methods are horrible sins against Wisdom.

Life only allows a maximum human lifespan with great health of about 125 years. After that, the complications set in, even with mastery.

The immortality issue is a specific game design choice, largely to prevent a setting where mages are routinely dominated by near godlike superiors (*cough* Ascension *cough*).

>>51704432
There's a Grimoire that teaches a Life and Death spell that makes you age at a rate of one day a week, provided that you cast it every week. Exceptional Successes mean you don't age at all for that week.

>>51704432

What's a good way to become immortal (by screwing someone over, of course) using only the Life Arcanum?

Was it the 20th Anniversary edition of VtM that had the ridiculously bad artwork for the Clans?

Question for Awakening fags. How many ties do Seers of the Throne usually have in organized crime or even sole criminals? How much interest do they have in controlling the police and other parts of law enforcement?

And how would they look to one of them deciding to actually cracking down on both criminals and corrupt cops?

>>51704484

I don't know if the Grimoire spell would still be viable in 2e.

>>51704504
>What's a good way to become immortal (by screwing someone over, of course) using only the Life Arcanum?

Using Life for immortality would probably lean more towards the losing your humanity, rather than evil acts, side of the low Wisdom equation. However, I'm sure some creative Anons will think of a myriad of dastardly uses of Life to harm others to extend one's lifespan.

>>51704567
yeah, most of the new art is subpar

>>51703557
They are no good because the Circle is no good, except as antagonists or Beast liasons

>>51704622
A bit off topic but can you use life or another arcanum to make vampire recycle his vitae or even make him produce his own?

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>>51704567

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>>51704697
Man I really miss all those artists from 90s-00s.

>>51704697
>>51704751

Oh wow.

Why couldn't they just hire someone competent for that shit?

Not to mention, that Tzimisce looks like it was poorly made in photoshop.

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>>51704840

WE

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What the fuck were they thinking with this?

>>51704782

They did manage to get a few of them back for V20, the more fan popular ones at least.

It just so happens that those artist's styles haven't aged very well.

>>51704900
black rage

>>51704870
Fucking Sandman on the right over there.

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>>51704870

The Ravnos isn't too bad, but still, they should have hired an actual artist.

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See, this is great.

>>51699370
Not really sure if it counts as romance, but in the Hunter game I'm playing in, my character (the cell leader, too.) Ended up getting seduced by a vampire after getting a healthy dose of majesty and being fed on. Ironically despite being a nightmare for our team, she ended up getting killed in a very anticlimactic ambush.

Of course the damage was done, my character is still hung up about it, and has been trying to bury himself in the hunt to keep himself from thinking about her.

>>51699370
I mostly have romance in a background among the npcs. One time I had one of my VtR players romance someone poor girl got killed by a slasher

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>>51699370
>How often does romance come up?

In my VtM games, every now and then, even if it's mostly just blood dolls and ghouls falling prey to the Blood Bond or ending up infatuated with their Domitor. It's rare that actual "true love" romances emerge, and if they do pop up it's usually just as background lore for the characters.

My gaming group runs several chronicles simultaneously, and one Anarch is slowly growing a massive herd made up entirely of strip-clubs, seedy bars and stuff like that: she's basically growing an entire cult revolving around the worship of herself, where every ghoul is madly in love with her.

And, she's a bloodmage to boot; a "New Age" Anarch ritualist, so she's even managed to get around the whole "ghouls hate each other" deal with this ritual:

>ENFOLDING THE BELIEVERS
>Kindred with multiple ghouls often find that jealousy over the regnant’s affections can lead to rivalry and conflict, and New Age vampire cult leaders find such discord counter-productive to the enlightenment they seek, hence this ritual. The sorcerer first prepares a quantity of some kind of liquid to which she adds one point of vitae per gallon of liquid. Red Kool-Aid or fruit punch works perfectly well for purposes of this ritual, although “drinking the Kool-Aid” has a sinister connotation in the context of New Age cults that some Kindred choose to avoid. The sorcerer must have her followers drink a quantity of the prepared liquid before leading them in an extended meditation exercise lasting at least one hour. If the ritual is effective, all of the followers acquire what is essentially a secondary blood bond to one another and to the group as an abstract unit.

>How often does romance come up?

Does it count as romance if one of the other players' character is trying to blood bond your own? Because that's all I got.

It's absolutely fucked up, in-game, but outside the game I can't help but admire the other player for playing the long game and just having the fucking patience for this to happen. I think they know that my character knows that they're trying to blood bond him, and the fact that they're still going along with it scares the shit out of me.

I think what I love best about this whole mess is that it doesn't overshadow our main event, it's more of a treat for inter-group dynamics.

>>51705462

Isn't being blood bonded a sign of loving loyalty? Or am I mistaken? I always thought it was disgustingly artificial unless the human loved the vampire beforehand.

>>51705527
It is disgustingly artificial.

>>51705527
>I always thought it was disgustingly artificial unless the human loved the vampire beforehand.

A blood bond is *always* artificial.

Even if the human loved the vampire beforehand, that love will quickly get replaced by the blood bond.

If before the blood bond they loved the vampire in *spite* of the vamp's flaws, then after the blood bond they usually won't even recognise that the vamp has any flaws at all; the vampire is perfect in their eyes, and they will hurt themselves, sell themselves or even kill themselves just in order to please their new master, their "one true love".

If love is forced, then it can't be called love.

>>51705553
More reason to burn the bastards I say!

>Obrimos

>>51705559
t.someone who has never brainwashed a hoe

>>51705559
What's that saying?

Love is like a fart. If you have to force it, then it's probably shit.

>>51705559

Seems like romancing a Vampire would be futile.

>>51705527

Blood bond is artificial.

We're both playing as vampires, me as a Gangrel and the other player as a Daeva, and the other person is actually going out of their way to get me blood bonded and also blood bond themselves to me. It's weird. I have no idea what kickstarted the other character's obsession.

>>51705590

The thing is, there are a few exceptions, where vampires genuinely do feel love, it's just that their new/second-nature tends to eat away at such things.

>>51705592
Deava are all about obsession, right? They're probably chasing some ideal of human love through blood bonding and you just got unlucky in that you caught their attention.

Is the Daeva a girl or a boy? Just curious.

>>51705620

The Daeva character is a woman and my Gangrel is a guy. No idea what gender the other player is, since we're playing online and we chat minimally outside of the game.

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>>51699607
>Austin

>>51705590
Most of the time it is. Even if there was genuine love and affection behind the relationship, any supernatural relationship will have tons of complications that arise from such inescapable things like the very nature of your existence.

Make it a cross-splat romance and I can begin to feel a migraine coming on just thinking about it.

>>51705592
Its a hint. The Daeva player wants you to fuck them IRL.

>>51705656
Fitting city for a religious Obrimos MILF.

>>51705658

>IRL

Like I said, we're playing online.

I literally don't know anyone there IRL.

>>51705677
They're playing coy and waiting for you to ask. Its the long game anon.

>>51705657
>Make it a cross-splat romance

Moros x Daeva

>>51705682

Then they're going to be playing it to their graves.

>>51705677
They're probably dropping hints to their IRL location in the game chat.

They want you to find them and fuck them.

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>>51705667
>religious

Pretty sure Waco or Dallas would be more fitting. Austin's too progressive and tolerant and shit.

>>51705590
>Seems like romancing a Vampire would be futile.

If that vampire is determined to blood-bond you? Definitely.

Unless they're smart and amoral, in which case they won't blood bond you themselves, but will instead embrace a new vampire, use *that* vampire to blood bond you and make you a ghoul, and then kill that same vampire immediately afterwards, and then repeat the process every month.

That's how you get a ghoul with no blood bond, so that she and the vampire can live (presumably) happily ever after, or some shit.

But yeah, if a vampire felt true love for someone, blood-bonding them would be the worst thing they could do.

>>51705691
What dont you want to travel halfway across the country to have sex with a fat 35 year old NEET who was pretending to be a woman on the internet?

>>51705696
This. They want the Chronicles of D.

>>51705683
Both can live forever by leeching off of life. Blood for the Kindred, Souls for the Necromancer.

The Mage could also deal with the effects of the Blood Bond through magic.

>>51705683
I know everybody says that Obrimos are the rock to the Vampire's scissors, but if you think about it Moros have more power over them.

Corpses are Matter, right? And you need Death to work magic on Vampires directly. So a Vampire literally falls right under a Moros' purview of power.

>>51705722
Mages can't be Blood Bound. Can't be Embraced either. Unless they changed that in 2e.

>>51705747
Mages can certainly labor under a blood bond, DaveB however has said that any Mage who sees one of their follows laboring under such an affliction will likely use Magic to remedy the affliction.

>>51705782
Unless mage seeing it is Seer or Banisher then they would laugh for hours

>>51705804
What about an Obrimos? I don't see much humor in that scenario.

>>51705813
Then he would probably find the whole thing disgusting but he would probably think Order mage deserves it

>>51705804
A Banisher would likely be horrified that such a Mage is the servant of a horrifying creature of undeath. And try to kill it, and its new master.

>>51705917
But the focus would still be on a mage and vampire could probably get away scot free if he would piss off at the right time

>>51700939
You need to give him challenges he can't blast his way out of. One of them is social. "Enhanced" operatives frequently face subtle discrimination inside the Ivory Tower, being passed up for promotion, being subtly ignored, judged, ostracised. He can't shoot a superior for making him feel shit.

What happens to a vampire's soul after final death in VTM?

>>51706171
Some become wraiths, but others seem to go wherever most souls go. No one knows were the souls of vampires who were diablerized or in Golconda go.

>>51699370
>How often does romance come up?
Romanctic relationships is a weakness GM would use against us. Never do it in any WoD game/

>>51704237
Depends of what you mean by immortality. If just ageing immunity, not lead bullet immunity, it shouldn't need Mastery. Look at Veil of Moments (Time 2), something similar should be possible with Life and probably Death.

>>51705699
>Pretty sure Waco or Dallas would be more fitting. Austin's too progressive and tolerant and shit.

Austin has its religious contingent. Austin is certainly progressive... for Texas.

In any event, as Jophiel's creator, know that while she's personally conservative and religious, she's not preachy (except about the scourge of vampires), quite nice and very charitable, and has learned a great deal of tolerance over the years working with a Consilium full of self-centered mages. Her religion guides her actions, and while she may disapprove of certain lifestyles or beliefs, will not interfere or openly condemn unless it threatens those under her protection either as Sentinel of the Consilium or her Fallen identity as a wealthy benefactor of various charities, particular those involving abused women, runaways and children, and law enforcement.

If you recall Jophiel's background, she and her sister were young runaways exploited and attacked by a ravenous vampire. As a result, she will NOT let the undead abominations threaten the weak and abused in her city. In my chronicles, vampires tread lightly in Austin. Jophiel's strong ties to her own powerful cabal and the city are the only things preventing her from becoming a true travelling vampire hunter.

Leviticus 17:14:

For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

>>51699370
In my game, I am going to have "Caretakers of Gaia" cabals, which for some reason thinks that werewolves harm the nature by draining it of it's essence. How much of chance to ruin local werewolves lifes they have, if they are careful and prefer to use spirit proxies?

>>51706409
I don't know why but she kinda rubs me wrong way. Thou this is purely personal preference.

>>51706464

Do you otherwise like religious Obrimos characters?

Maybe you have a soft spot for the undead leeches and care not for their depravity?

>>51706740
I rarely introduce religious in my games in the first place as I'm atheist and I think I will make them into caricatures unwillingly(thou my players didn't complain thus far so whatever)

On another note I do have soft spot for VtR vamps as after Demon it's my second favourite CofD game.

On the third note only Obrimos that popped up in my games were petty and tyrannical Tetrarch and a dirty cop so yeah

>>51706784

Your entire mage chronicle had only two Obrimos, and they were both villains?

>>51706804
It was VtR chronicle I should have added and cop one is actually a sometimes ally. While other mages appear here and there players don't interact with them too much

The OP forums have some strange posters.

>>51707377
For example?

Playing Mage. How does one make contracts with the Fey?

>>51707418
Don't. If you're going to make a contract make one with a supernal entity or Spirit. The end result is the same and it'll be less of a headache.

>>51707406
David Hill, Jr.

>>51707418
By having very, VERY low Inelligence

>>51707406
Wyrdhamster.

>>51705734
If I remember right Vampires are actually affected by Death/Life instead of Death/Matter.

>>51707406
Mrdubois

>>51703557
>hours of dancing.
15 minutes per roll

yes, check out secrets of the covenants

>>51705782
>, DaveB however has said that any Mage who sees one of their follows laboring under such an affliction will likely use Magic to remedy the affliction.
no he didn't
for all the mage knows that's some spell keeping their friend alive

>>51707793
BS. You see that your friend is under effect of some weird mojo and the first thing you think is: "Aha, surely it keeps him alive!" ?

I don't understand people who derisively snort about people playing these games "wrong".

>ermagerd, you can't play this game like superheros with fangs
>crossover is badwrongfun superfriends etc.
>how dare you play a game that doesn't align with my personal vision

How fucking autistic do you have to be to become triggered by people you don't even know playing the game differently? How about "fuck you, I bought it, I'll play it how I like"? It's not like you can fucking stop me.

>>51707793
>>51707917

I believe Dave indicated that mages would almost certainly recognize something was amiss with their compatriot if he or she was afflicted with a blood bond, and the Arcana could readily identify the cause of the problem, and with sufficient proficiency, solve it.

It's also probably a very bad idea to try to enslave mages, as the Wise, Pentacle and Seer alike, would take offense as a matter of principle, and react quite strongly so as to discourage future attempts.

>>51707985

I'm sorry someone laughed at your game and you let it bother you.

>>51704622
>>51704504

You could probably become a pseudo-vampire, draining life from others to replenish your own.

Why would anyone Dodge? Near as I can figure the math, it's no better than just applying Defense and you burn your action, too.

>>51707985
>I don't understand people who derisively snort about people playing these games "wrong".

If you pay attention to most of the discussion, most people don't care at all how people want to run their own chronicles.

The issue is usually that some of the people who make significant changes to the rules and setting often still insist their preferences are actually the real game, and then criticize everyone else, sometimes even including the game's developers and authors, for "just not getting it," "lacking imagination," and other bits of ridiculousness, various and sundry.

When players are discussing matters consistent with the rules and setting as designed and intended, and people interject with houserules as "fact," it becomes disruptive.

The question you should be asking is why people who choose to implement houserules and setting revisions can't simply acknowledge their changes and move on.

>>51707793

To be fair mages would use magic to "fix" any affliction. Blood bond, madness, stress, erectile disfunction, having an opinion they dont like.

>>51707418
A changeling, or the Gentry?

>>51708316
I mean whoever lives in Supernal Arcadia

>>51708416
The usual summoning rules, I guess.

>>51708106

Its kinda difficult to take word of the author with any kind of authority when they are hacks like brucatto or David Hill

>>51708545

Hacks or not, they develop and author books.

DavidH, like or hate him, is one of the most prolific WW developers and authors today.

The arguments about game design and intend also often involve far more moderate and well-liked voices such as DaveB and Chris Allen.

>>51708028
>I believe Dave indicated that mages would almost certainly recognize something was amiss with their compatriot if he or she was afflicted with a blood bond,

That may be true for Pentacle and Seer mages, but wouldn't apply to apostates and other mage loners.

It does, however, reinforce the setting's emphasis on how mages join cabals for mutual protection.

>>51708416
>I mean whoever lives in Supernal Arcadia

The beings in Mage Arcadia are not remotely the same as the Gentry in Changeling Arcandia.

Making deals with the supernal beings of Mage Arcadia is discussed in Summoners.

>>51708762
You generally do not want to be alone in Cofd and Wod

>>51708807

Very true, but that hypothetical vampire still needs to blood bond the mage.

That is much easier said than done.

>>51708892
This makes me wonder. In a city ruled by Invictus said vampire would probably get staked by his own for going against regulations(especially if he wasn't member of Invictus himself)

>>51708028
The Pack mentioned that there is an entire Lodge dedicated to enslaving the Mad called the Lodge of the Caged.

>>51708663

There are examples of times when author intent was deemed stupid by the fanbase and largely ignored.

The technocracy as unrepeantant bad guys. Ghost children. Beast....just beast.

Death to the author is the sanest way to approach any opp game.

>>51709242

Deemed stupid or not, it doesn't change the fact that a rule or element of the setting is canon.

The discussion of whether a rule or part of the setting is good, liked or viable is not the same as whether it exists in the books.

>>51709074
>entire Lodge dedicated to enslaving the Mad

Stopping the Mad would likely be considered a public service by most mages, not an act of aggression.

However, trying to harness the Mad against a Consilium or Ministry would almost certainly prove very imprudent to such foolish werewolves.

Don't forget that The Pack also discussed how angering mages is often a lesson in punishments worse than death.

Has DaveB or anyone else at OPP indicated when the Dark Eras Companion or Signs of Sorcery might be released? Will they be out before GenCon in the summer?

>>51709360

Do not assume they will be out this year. Just don't, it'll be a lot easier on you that way.

I want to learn everything about the Abyss

Ok weird situation has come up in my game. We've been using the preview for signs of sorcery for some crafting. One of my players made himself some motorcycles leathers out of perfected leather. So leather armor that you can wear around town without raising too many eyebrows.

What happens if he turns on spirit Mage armor? From my viewpoint unless he's struck by something strong enough that will roll over into lethal he's immune to mundane damage.

>>51709659
That's a very bad idea.

>>51709659
>I want to learn everything about the Abyss

Turn on the TV news and read rpg.net.

Hum did someone have the source for one of the precedent Pic for the WoD general ? The one with the blond girl with a sword and rat-like creature behind here ?

>>51709471
>Do not assume they will be out this year.

But the books have been fully written for what seems like forever. Is a little hope so wrong?

>>51704580
It's probably too late, but what the hell.

Sole criminals are likely to be beneath the Seer's radar, provided they're no legendary superthief. As for criminal organisations (and police/other law enforcement), the Seers want as much control as they can get away with, and as subtle as possible. It's not impossible that the chief of police is in their pocket, not even magically controlled (although that's always an option).

A party going against corrupt cops could become a target, but if the police force is thoroughly infiltrated, going against corrupt cops could actually play into the Seer's hands.

>>51709338
I suspect that's why the Lodge exists actually. It's probably more of a defensive "oh shit, better fight fire with crazy fire" though.

>>51707793
Ok, you are clearly a vampfag.

Mages can get rid of the Blood Bond relatively easily. Get over it.

>>51710300

Mages can use the Arcana to remove the blood bond, but I don't believe it necessarily would be easy, unless by "easy" you mean incinerating the offending vampire.

>>51710337
>I don't believe it necessarily would be easy

Dave seems to disagree

>>51710366

Dave is a moron.

>>51710366

Yeah but to Dave anything that resembles difficulty in mage should be purge out because THEMES!

>>51710383

Its more that he is heavy handed with the themes of mage. Subtlety or restrain is not his forte.

>>51710366
>Dave seems to disagree

Link or quote?

>>51710383
>>51710385

Sorry that Mages can deal with all your shit.

hurhurhur

>>51710401

I really hate it when people start demanding citations. Just shows how much you hate the truth of things. But here you go.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/50f039/vtrmage_awakening_can_a_mage_be_blood_bound/

>>51710404

No worries, we just ignore Dave and make a blood bound something actually interesting plot instead of a boring "dispell, done"

I've heard that Obtenebration (in VtM) is overpowered, but it just seems sort underwhelming. Is there something I'm missing about it?

>>51710457
So don't use Mages then? Jeez, aren't you a little bitch.

>Mage Internet Defense Force

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I'm fairly new to this general, but I have to ask: why don't people just ignore anyone who brings up mage power levels into every single thread? Why reply to them?

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>>51710460

> Is there something I'm missing about it?

They might have been talking about powers like:

> Shadowstep: Teleport from shadow to shadow
> Oubliette: Lock one person in an Abyssal prison
> Shadow Watchtower: Merge with a shadow, becoming invulnerable to everything except sunlight
>Ahriman's Demesne: Blanket an area in a darkness that devours everything it touches
>Enter the Abyss: Enter and leave the Abyss at any time, allowing you to teleport from shadow to shadow around the world
>Tchernabog: Temporarily blot out the sun in your area

>>51710398

So he is a moron.

>>51710709

I think you're just mad

>>51710702
Considering those are all only available to 7th and lower gens, I don't think that's too much of a big deal. The base 5 powers seem lackluster, if anything.

>>51701825
Clan and discipline spread? Ending his character is a given at this point right?

>>51709880
Thanks for taking time to answer mate. I was mostly curious since NPC in question is in fact police captain and proximi turned praetorian obrimos.

>>51710460
It's okay (but still powerful) if your storyteller isn't a fool. There's way worst things in VtM. Your characters should never be able to have more than Obtenebration 5 (or any discipline) in a normal game anyways. Most of the overpowered powers are designed for antagonists.

Also all the obtenebration powers are a giant breach of the Masquerade. Not that important in a Sabbat game, but a good Lasombra should be able of being a bit subtle.

>>51710709
>So he is a moron.

See, Brucatto is a moron. In an argument you can call him a moron because his decisions on 20th dont hold water under any scrutiny except OPP echo chamber. He is undefendable under any light.

Saying to Dave however, "mages are too powerful" he will just counter with "well duh, they are my waif....i mean is part of the theme of the game, its written right there". As he has done so far because thats a valid counter. However saying that "his theme is unnecessarily driven to ground to the point its almost a parody" is something he cant really counter with "is part of the theme".

Dave is not a moron, he is just a barely bellow average developer. Which comparing to other devs in OPP (Brucatto, david hill) he is seem a better than he actually is.

>>51710558
>>Mage Internet Defense Force

The Purple Bloc ?

>>51710875
The issue is that I'm playing a Losambra antitribu in a Cammie game, so breaching the masquerade is a bit of a bother. But you're certainly correct, there's worse things, I just wish the powers were a bit more impressive (Though I do think that shadow tentacle thing is cool as shit).

>>51710891

We now might as well restart the argument about whether mages are really "monsters."

>>51710929
What level of obtenebration do you have and what edition are you playing? The tentacles are very useful and transforming into a darkness monster that causes Rötschreck is kinda cool.

>>51710891
>he is just a barely bellow average developer

Stop kidding yourself, Anon. Dave is the most competent developer OPP has, and you know it. The fact that he's an ex-archaeologist just gives him a good edge with Mage to begin with, considering all the mysteries.

>>51710969

>designing for make believe table top games instead of being an archaeologist

How much of a fuckup was he to fall out of that field?

>>51710969

Right now, the only Mysteries I want solved is why Phil Brucato is still developer of M20, and more generally, why Paradox allowed OPP to keep the CoD/WOD license with Rich Thomas as Creative Director?

Banishers are NPC-only, correct? And there's no way to cure them other than death?

>>51710891
Hmm people hate on OPP writers but IMHO guys who did Demon the Descent did a solid job

>>51710965
Not the same anon, but in terms of facing other vampires, obtenebration is ruthlessly good.
As a beginning ability, unless someone has your silver bullet, they are immediately at a massive disadvantage.

>>51711005
>fuckup

That's a pretty big assumption there, buddy.

>>51711005

Yeah, the demand for archaeologists is at an all time high and the pay cannot be beat, amirite?

Dave writes and develops largely for the love of the game, as do virtually all other freelances. His paychecks are barely able to cover the costs of the game lines he routinely develops and authors.

For those people who think they can do better, nobody is stopping you. Good luck. However, most people are do little but bloviate and complain, and the few fan works produced often make Beast look like a literary masterpiece.

>>51710969
>Stop kidding yourself, Anon. Dave is the most competent developer OPP has, and you know it.

I never said he wasnt, i just pointed out that bar is very VERY low.

>>51711031
>Right now, the only Mysteries I want solved is why Phil Brucato is still developer of M20

Answer: OPP Echo chamber.

And more generally, why Paradox allowed OPP to keep the CoD/WOD license with Rich Thomas as Creative Director?

Answer: Dracula has nothing but contempt for Chrod.

>>51711031

Because no one cares, it'll make money no matter who is at the helm. It's why the Werewolf game will end up making a decent amount of money (not bank, that'd be when they finally make a Vampire RPG) even though all it exists on at the moment is Ericcson's hype and some concept art.

Even now, it's still got IP inertia and a niche that few in any industry can fill, and Paradox is seperate enough from White Wolf that they'll never see a single cloud should White Wolf or OPP stumble somehow.

>>51711189
Another bitch comment

>>51711139
>Dave writes and develops largely for the love of the game, as do virtually all other freelances. His paychecks are barely able to cover the costs of the game lines he routinely develops and authors.

We get he wrotes out of the love of the game but does that exempt him from criticism of his work?

>>51710965
I have level 2 obtenebration, and am playing revised. I may work my sheet around more to get level 3 so I get those cool tentacles, but I do want to keep my 1 other dot in dominate. Maybe I'm just not reading this correctly, because it just seems to be small bonuses to stealth and making darkness with the first two dots, while the third is kind of interesting.

>>51710820
If the NPC is a Seer, keep in mind that other pylons might have interests in the police force. There's a lot of infighting between pylons and Seers, but depending on how the power structures operates, he could have a relatively free hand and even give out favors to other Seers, or be a target.

>>51711115
>>51711005

If DaveB is a "fuckup," it really is a horrible commentary on the entire industry.

While I certainly don't agree with all of Dave's development and design choices, he nevertheless is certainly one of the best WW/OPP writers and developers in a very long while, and his work is heads above some of the drek produced by other popular ttrpgs like Shadowrun ot D&D.

I respect that he endeavors to maintain consistent themes and settings, produce rules and mechanics that are actually playable outside of white rooms, identify and fix problems in earlier editions and other WW gamelines, routinely participates in discussions with fans (even here on /wodg/), and unlike many of OPP's stable of authors, has the decency to largely keep his admittedly very liberal politics from overshadowing game text and wasting book space.

Whining about DaveB is a surefire way to get more of MattM or worse

>>51711302
>If DaveB is a "fuckup," it really is a horrible commentary on the entire industry.

I think the comments mean he fuck up on the archaeology field.

>>51711051
Banishers are the "healthy" mages, in so far a mage can be healthy.

>>51711223
>>51711216

One of the biggest issues with OPP that should concern Paradox is the extremely slow release of books, particularly since so many seem to be all or nearly complete.

It's one thing to correctly want to avoid the "supplement treadmill," but its quite another to have easy money uselessly sitting on a virtual shelf.

>>51711302
>>51711302
>his work is heads above some of the drek produced by other popular ttrpgs like Shadowrun ot D&D

You sound like the kind of hipster who should be playing a *World game.

>>51711302
>I respect that he endeavors to maintain consistent themes and settings,

I will say his views on the themes of mage is heavy handed. Power corrupts can be done without making mages this unstoppable forces that they are now.

>and unlike many of OPP's stable of authors, has the decency to largely keep his admittedly very liberal politics from overshadowing game text and wasting book space.

Thats very true.

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Is this how Lunacy works in CofD?

>>51711302

Kinda wish OPP was more like FFG on their releases. Instead of sounding like a bunch of hipsters saying "we dont just convert stuff to 2nd, but every book must be a bloated mess of useless fluff" just release the damm conventions.

At least FFG gives me what i want in every book "more ships, more equipments, more specializations and more mechanics".

>>51711538
Not too far off actually.

>>51711301
I admit I have some trouble with Seers as a whole and not making them cartoonishly evil. Mind this is a vampire game so through most interactions they've seen either complete dicks or apathetic pencil pushers

>>51711384

No, you don't get it. Paradox never needs to be concerned about OPP. Ever.

The Paradox deal sets it up so that White Wolf is more or less just an independent organization that occasionally has to report in every once in a while. White Wolf chooses to use that independence to be a licensing house save for certain tabletop games that it wishes to produce in-house (and even then OPP is going to be doing stuff for that if not outright writing the core itself). There's little to no risk involved in any part of the exchange on Paradox's part. They don't need to be concerned about anything, because they don't need to toss a whole lot of money WW's way.

OPP books are still top sellers and large Kickstarter earners. They can be late all they want and still have a good enough showing and pedigree to stick around. That's just how this industry is. Kevin Siembieda has some books that were advertised but never saw the light of day, and yet people still buy RIFTS books. You have to really try hard to be a "concern" in this business.

>>51711569
For what it's worth the pentacle is ethically neutral at best.

>>51711514
>Power corrupts can be done without making mages this unstoppable forces that they are now

In order to maintain the Mage themes of ultimate privilege and hubris, mages actually need a great deal of raw power for it truly to be corrupting.

Mage has never really been a street-level game, particularly with antagonists like anti-reality abominations and the very symbols of human oppression.

If you try to balance mage against other WW games (rather than internally as Dave and OPP intends), it results in confused themes and a great deal of cognitive dissonance. No one will be happy.

Mages are not overpowered within their own game line, and that's all that really matters when playing Mage. The discussions about "mage supremacy" amount to little more than bored trolling during (long) pauses between major releases.

However, I do not envy the developer of the upcoming Crossover Chronicles. It will no doubt be a thankless, unforgiving and near impossible job.

>>51711748
>For what it's worth the pentacle is ethically neutral at best.


Neutral, yeah, that's it, ethically neutral.

-Response to the discussion by any Mystagogue.

>>51711354

How is being an ex-anything considered a fuckup, exactly?

I guess quitting McDonalds was the biggest mistake of my life.

>>51711828
Mage's aren't the 'good guys' it's a theme I keep reminding my PCs everytime they run around pretending to be superheros.

>>51710936
>mages are monsters

They are arguably the biggest playable monsters in the setting. Definitely the biggest if you include the Archmasters.

Mages are boring

>>51711969
You are unimaginative

>>51710936
Normal mundane humans are plenty monstrous. What happens if you give them cosmic power?

>>51711978
>its fun if you make up a bunch of stuff!
That's not how it works

>>51711987
That's exactly how it works

>>51711951
That seems pretty impressive, considering that as far as I'm aware, unlike a number of other monsters hanging around, they don't really have any particular inherent obstacles to being decent people if they felt like it.

>>51712030
That means it sucks

>>51712041
Yet another bitch comment

>>51712058
not an argument

>>51711987
Creativity and ingenuity in storytelling is exactly how it works.

Or do you just want to play yet another session where the Carthians firebomb Invictus interests again, for the 15th fuck time because you're creatively bankrupt?

>>51712031
Aren't Mages just the best?

>>51712031

Mages develop unfathomable power with virtually no limits, and by dint of power and personality, pathologically obsessive to acquire even more knowledge and power.

They may start off as decent people, but it virtually impossible to stay that way (or sometimes still be considered "people" at all) when almost everyone around you are little more than monkeys and insects.

If you could know a person's true intentions by reading their mind or command them to "do good" with a simple spell, all without repercussion, do you? Should you?

A mage is a law unto himself and his mage peers and virtue quickly withers in the face of easy power.

>>51712066
Keep bitching, bitch boy.

>>51712031
Volunteer at a nursing home or spend my time learning how to turn people into singularities if they annoy me.

Hmm, this is a hard one.

So if people hate Mages so much, why not just leave them out of your Chronicle?

Isn't this obvious? They don't have to exist in your world.

>>51712199

Is incinerating vampires for amusement a worthwhile public good or the height of selfishness and arrogance?

#ObrimosProblems

>>51712295
It's more about ignoring people on 4chan. I have mages as npcs in my games and they work fine

>>51712295
>They don't have to exist in your world.

The need and desire to have crossover with all available splats is an inextricable force.

>>51712322
>I have mages as npcs in my games and they work fine

#NotRealMages

#AwakenedWimps

>>51712322
I bet you dumb them down.

I bet you're a vampfag.

So, who believes DaveB has been posting anonymously in this thread?

>>51712323
Except Beast because nothing is worth that shit-show.

>>51712367

I get paranoid about this all the time.

He's probably just snickering to himself.

>>51705224
Gay.

>>51712362
>>51712348

Oh you guys are adorable

>>51712369
>Except Beast because nothing is worth that shit-show.

No, Beast is the perfect example of the phenomena.

The anger about Beast is the result of dissonance of having to choose to not include an "official" canon splat in a crossover chronicle against knowing they screw up the setting.

File: 1481268778664.jpg (47KB, 450x428px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 450x428px

>>51712171
>>51712199
>Getting power makes you a monster

I'm not okay with this.

>>51712405
You aren't okay with the entirety of IRL history?

>>51712367
I bet you're DaveB.

>>51712405
>I'm not okay with this.

Whether you are OK with it is immaterial.

Human nature is what it is. You need only turn on the news or read a history book.

>>51712424

I'm definitely not DaveB... or am I?

#MageMysteries

>>51712171

So i am the only one who plays mages who are just a dude with power with no desire to change the world or mess with the lives of people? And just throw the occasional thunder to the bad guys (seers) in self defense.

>>51712421
Thats not even remotely true. The idea that if you gave the man on the street superpowers, he would turn into a monster necessarily is ridiculous.

You may *abuse* them in places, but it doesn't follow that Power Equals Corruption/Evil. You don't start making baby-Kindred-on-sticks just because you get the power to read minds.

>>51711538
No
The "just a dog" happens after integrity-breaking episodes of extreme fear, catatonia, or atavistic anger

>>51712457
That's pretty much the Mysterium. Fuck all this politics bullshit, I've got MAGIC to study!

>>51712457
>e just a dude with power with no desire to change the world or mess with the lives of people

Such people do not generally Awaken.

The Obsessive(tm) drive is what characterizes the Wise.

>>51712405
It's worse than that, it's power handed to people who are by their own nature investigative, nosy, and obsessive.

>>51712520
Not all Obsessions involve eating babies to get more super powers.

Its entirely possible for a Mage to go his whole life obsessing over knowledge and wisdom and never once eating a baby.

I know, its hard to believe, but true!

>>51712508

Woe be to the poor schmuck who stands between a Mystagogue and something he finds even remotely interesting, no less a Pancryptia-inducing sleeper monkey.

>>51712457
So long as you're instead devoting your time to studying Magic, yeah that's textbook Mysterium.
Of course, in your studies you'll likely end up fucking with people...
You can't find Claimed bodies to vivisect witout at least a little dickery.

>>51712550

It's not a binary choice between infant consumption and sainthood, and the descent into depravity is slow and unremarkable.

It's the fact that in pursuit of their Obsessions, nobody and nothing really matters, oftentimes including other mages.

>>51712508

The Mysterium hates Sleepers the most, you dumbass. They're hubristic as fuck.

>>51712561

The Mysterium is also more Indiana Jones than bookworm. You don't discover and solve Mysteries sitting placidly at your desk. Perusing your grimoires and documenting your research is best performed in your downtime between expeditions and experiments.

>>51712588
Thats the question though. Does 'principled' action backed by power necessarily lead to atrocities?

Is conviction synonymous with cruelty?

There is definitely possibilities for a Mage to become what one might call a monster, but there's no reason to say it claims even half of Mages, much less with a society of other supermen keeping the initial Mage in check.

>>51712605
>The Mysterium hates Sleepers the most

They are truly wise and perspicacious.

>>51712550
>Not all Obsessions involve eating babies to get more super powers.
>Its entirely possible for a Mage to go his whole life obsessing over knowledge and wisdom and never once eating a baby.
>I know, its hard to believe, but true!

Give this man a raise!

>>51712561
>Of course, in your studies you'll likely end up fucking with people...
>You can't find Claimed bodies to vivisect witout at least a little dickery.

Or what about no? Just fight the seers when they come knocking and be a fucking decent person? I mean, to each their own, but i find very 90s this notion of ALL mage are assholes.

>>51712634
>The Mysterium is also more Indiana Jones than bookworm.
it's split evenly
there's a faction for both and another faction of innovators

>>51712648

Mage society is not designed as a check on mages' power and influence. It acknowledges every mage is a walking nuclear arsenal, and then tries to keep them killing each other while pursuing their Obsessions.

If you force sleepers to be and do good by depriving them of their privacy, agency and free will, you are a monster. There's no such thing as benign tyranny and enslavement.

>>51712734

>>51711569
I think your characterisation of "apathetic pencil pushers" and "complete dicks" are not all that off base, in my opinion, and from a very understandable point of view, the Seers are cartoonishly evil. The thing is that their motivations are in most if not all cases very, very understandable. Like, if I examine my life and extrapolate from that, you bet I'd be a Seer, and the same is true for a lot of people. And really, is it all that evil to protect people from having potentially sanity-rending powers? Is it really that evil if you can say that you've got yours in this dog-eat-dog world?
If you want to have a Seer NPC that seems sympathetic, your police captain could fit the bill. He may genuinely want to protect people from themselves, and if sometimes, someone has to get mindcontrolled for a minute or two, what's the harm?

>>51712932

The Exarchs have already won the war for reality. Sleepers are going to get screwed regardless of which Order you join.

You might as well be on the winning team and enjoy the *really good* perks. If the world is a prison, it's better to be a guard than a prisoner.

Anybody got that collage of text from the old Black Hand book?

>>51704840
That's our Lord and Savior, Swedracula!

>>51708966
Invictus Ventrue here

Fuck yes he would, whether or not he could isn't the problem. The Prince probably knows whoever is up top in Mage circles, and frankly we can't have any of our people fucking with each other, it just starts petty cycles of ever increasing violence. Stake the offender on a radio tower for the sun I say.

Unless somehow he manages to pull it off. Then I say, well played.

>>51710702
Most people find Arms of the Abyss (any more extra attacks/actions/stuff) and Shadowform (animate shadow that slithers and moves along the ground and such) to be problematic.