Warmachine/Hordes General

Wow you just straight copy pasted the edition too you roaring faggot.

Do you always play Steamroller scenarios or have you set up some personal ones as well?
Have you used very asymmetric terrain (like one side is a fortress with walls you can walk up and stuff like that)?

>>51707365
Steamroller is basically the default. Terrain should be asymmetrical, but not overpoweringly so. If you want more specialized things like a siege you will probably have to come up with your own scenario.

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>>51707365
For alternative scenarios, check out Crossroads of Courage and Company of Irons.

-> http://privateerpress.com/files/CompanyofIron_Rules_Core.pdf
http://privateerpress.com/files/CrossroadsofCourageSeasonOneRules.pdf
http://files.privateerpress.com/op/crossroadsofcourage/Crossroads-of-Courage-Season-2-Rules-2016.pdf

PP also release funny scenarios for Halloween and Christmas every now and then.

>>51707365
>Do you always play Steamroller scenarios or have you set up some personal ones as well?

We play Steamroller and some of the older league scenarios.

>>Have you used very asymmetric terrain (like one side is a fortress with walls you can walk up and stuff like that)?

We have before, but keeping the models balanced on it was such a pain. Now we're more likely to do something like put a piece of cover or wall on top of a hill if we want to get the effects of parapets, towers, etc.

We tend to have a good mix of forests, hill, rubble, water, trenches, bunkers, and other features. Not many enough hazards IMO though.

Yeah hazards haven't caught on at my store. You see the occasional acid pool but never any fire.

We really love the new rubble and dense fog. Usually forget to roll for the fog to go away though.

>>51707904
Then you are doing it right. Fuck randomly disappearing terrain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdDZ7ohzh5s&feature=youtu.be

New hordes faction is led by Old Witch 2

>>51709513
fuck is this her on a grown up Scrapjack as her Hut?

>>51709533
Yes

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>>51709513
1st reaction: FUCK! Old Witch is no longer Khador?! : <

2nd reaction: Fuck yeah! Old Witch2, baby!

Damn it, the Old Witch is my favorite model in the entire game and now I have to switch factions to play her? I'm sad.

>>51709602
>>Damn it, the Old Witch is my favorite model in the entire game and now I have to switch factions to play her? I'm sad.
Old Witch 1 still exists in Khador, so you're not just sad, but also stupid

>>51709633
I never said she wasn't fuckboi, but I have waited for a new Witch ever since I started playing in mk2 and she finally comes and is off-faction.

Chances for partisan are close to 0 too, since she'd be a Warlock, rather than a Warcaster.

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>>51709560
Erect

>>51709513
The real question is what made her from a work-in-the-shadow old magician that backs a nation to the super angsty the-world-will-pay villain? Inb4 Soles.

>>51710168
Well, the poem accompanying it addresses that. We just have to see what reason she is applying this "salve".

>>51709513
This is everything I wanted from Old Witch 2 model. She's gone full Baba Yaga.

>>51709602
>1st reaction: FUCK! Old Witch is no longer Khador?!
Holding out hope for Partisan [Khador].

I'm guessing the bargain she refers to has to be the deal Thamar made to get humans magic. Older lore talks about how the humans would have to pay for it some day.

Alternatively given her history maybe the deal Haley made with Haufang to protect Cygnar from the other dragons? The thing on top of the house looks like the container the Dragon Champion was held in.

>>51710390
You must go back. Reddit is waiting.

>>51709602
>>51709667
>Chances for partisan are close to 0 too, since she'd be a Warlock, rather than a Warcaster.
Not necessarily, she'd just need a rule specifying how her battlegroup gets put together. You're right that she probably can't take Khador jacks. Plus, I'm not even sure they 100% confirmed the new faction is Fury based, did they? There was still a possibility it would be something completely different (or a modification to the rules, like Cephalyx).

>>51710542
The fuck are you on about?

>>51709513
Holy hell, an actual, tangible model for this shitshow of a faction? It only took them like what, two years to get to this point?

>>51710168

If you kept up with the fluff then it's pretty obvious she's been forced into a more active roll by Wurmwood, who is brazenly trying to trigger the apocalypse with shit like manipulating Krueger to incite the dragons into action, and using Kromac to steal Rathrok and summon the Devourer through sheer carnage.

Manipulating Khador clearly doesnt work anymore, her aeons old rival isn't pulling its punches anymore so now neither will she.

>>51711120
it was too cringey for me to listen to all the way through, but it almost sounded like she said she was answering a threat with "crows of her own."

Since we know the faction they're making is based heavily in horror tropes, like bugs and crows, couldn't this just be Old Witch2(Khador Boogaloo) as a new caster being revealed as a direct competitor to the new faction? Perhaps she's acting as a protector of Khador against this new faction, and they're holding off on ACTUALLY releasing the new faction until SmogCon?

>>51711380
Don't know, don't care. This stupid faction has no business being devoted any time to, especially when considering that the game already has a whole bunch of horror shit going on (mainly Cryx for spooky, Everblightfor body horror, Skorne for torture porn and Gators for swamp shit, but others can also chip in) and doubly so since it'll end up being yet another dead faction like Cyriss or Cephalyx.

>>51711102
I know you are from reddit.

>>51711610
...And?

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>>51711610
>>51711629
You're both Faggots.

Who wants to talk about how nobody runs Gator Posse and how blinding better Brigands are?

>>51711590
>Wah, people like different things than me

>>51711590
There's still plenty of design open in the territory of horror, that isn't either "ghosts and zombies" or "body horror".

>>51711820
There's also Cephalyx which does mental horror.

>>51711590
Whoa guys. This guy gets it. Better call up PP and let them know some random try hard fag is ripping on the yet to be seen faction and saying that the models will not sell.

>>51711820
Sure, but judging by the concept art we've seen so far it doesn't look particularly inspired.
Furthermore, many classic horror things don't work on an army scale, because it looses much of its impact when the other side has 6-ton monstrosities of corded muscle, autoguns and wizards.
Well, maybe I'm entirely wrong. That's possible, too.

>>51711820
They can design new factions after they fixed their shit. Seriously, the overall game balance, in-faction balance and hordes vs. warmachine balance is all kinds of fucked up and now they're throwing another, most likely powercreeped to fuck, faction into it? Yeah, sure, just add more moving pieces to the clusterfuck why don't you.

>>51711955
>the overall game balance, in-faction balance and hordes vs. warmachine balance is all kinds of fucked up
Internal balance yes, External is almost fixed. Do you want them to halt all production and have their entire staff work on errata? That's neither very productive, nor very likely.

>>51711941
Yeah, yeah, I get it, I am a negative nancy, but I can't bring myself to get excited for a faction that sounds like a halloween gag that got out of hand.
Also, I have no idea if that stuff will sell; it most likely will. I just fear they will end up never getting any additional releases, just like CoC and Ceph.

>>51712011
as a CoC player I'm genuinely hoping another faction gets the same treatment. I got into the faction because there wasn't a widely visible thing saying it was limited, and if another faction gets the same treatment now that the game's a lot bigger the backlash/demand might make them start supporting the limited factions more.

So Chiron's spray has to be a misprint, right?

It says sp10 pow 15 Annihilating Gaze

Annihilating Gaze is the special rule that extollers have that add the str of the target to the damage if it's living. But the fluff does specify that the ranged attack cases enemy warbeasts to tear themselves apart.

If it actually hast the annihilating gaze rule it would be dice +10 on a mammoth.

>>51712478
Maybe Annihilating Gaze is just the name of the weapon, not the special ability.

>>51712478
No, Hordes just has all of the best guns now.

I don't know why, but between Loki, Azrael, and now Chiron (and, really, the Pureblood, Woldwyrd, Ravagore, and probably others I'm forgetting, too), Hordes just has better high-quality guns.

>>51712603
Don't forget the Cannoneer

Running a demo for a local convention. I've got some painted battle boxes, but also looking to build some simple 25 point lists using the battle boxes. How does this look?
Khador Army - 25 / 25 points

(Kozlov 1) Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad [+28]
- Decimator [16]
- Juggernaut [12]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [5]


Protectorate Army - 25 / 25 points

(Malekus 1) Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30]
- Castigator [12]
- Revenger [10]
- Repenter [8]
- Reckoner [16]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]

>>51711779
I run Gator Posse. I like em, they're cute. Especially the "nyah nyah dance" shaman leader guy. The tilting effect that jackass has on some opponents is worth its weight in gold (you just have to do a little "nyah nyah" thing with it every time you kill something of theirs, it works wonders).

>>51711934
Cephalyx do Mental Horror AND Body Horror. That's worth a 2x score bonus, right there, buddy.

>>51711943
>Well, maybe I'm entirely wrong. That's possible, too.
Always is, always will be. Welcome to the human condition, enjoy your stay.

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>Chiron – Skorne Heavy Warbeast (resin)

Chiron is one of the greatest basilisks ever broken to the skorne lash, and his subjugation attests to Beast Master Xekaar’s perfection of the art of physical conditioning through pain. The beast’s physical might is matched only by the power of his destructive gaze. Entire ranks of foes wither to dust as Chiron sweeps his cold eyes across them, and enemy warbeasts tear apart their own flesh in agony at his barest glance.

TRADE POINTS: As Beast Master Xekaar’s personal warbeast, Chiron makes a perfect purchase for players who have also picked up the Skorne Battlegroup Box (PIP 74095) as he gains boosted attack rolls on his SP 10, POW 15 Annihilating Gaze ranged attack. In addition his Leadership [Basilisks] ability means that this hulking basilisk works great in tandem with other Basilisk Drakes (PIP 74005)

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>Dominar Morghoul (Morghoul3)

After a lifetime spent bloodying his hands on behalf of others, Morghoul has emerged from the world of shadows to command a house like no other—the paingivers. In battle, Dominar Morghoul is attended by two paingiver escorts who aid him in crippling his foes so that his blade may find purchase, and he empowers his army with mortitheurgical might so that they may shift like the sands of the desert to swiftly fell their foes.

TRADE POINTS: The lethal master assassin of the Skorne Empire has returned, ready to lead his warriors to quick and bloody victory. With a feat that grants Acrobatics, Overtake, and Parry Dominar Morghoul pairs best with fast moving melee troops like Praetorian Swordmen with the Praetorian Swordsmen Officer and Standard Bearer (PIP 74078 and PIP 74031), Praetorian Keltarii (PIP 74078), and Praetorian Ferox (PIP 74025).

>>51712011
I was in that boat initially, but I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. Admittedly the bad emo poetry isn't helping. It will all come down to the models, and whether they're cheesy or cool. Everything else is secondary, including the rules. ("What!? Rules secondary?? Burn the Heretic!")

>>51712247
I wouldn't count on it. If they learned a "lesson" from that, it's going to be to tell people up-front that the faction is limited in nature. Which is fine, I think, as long as they're up-front about it.

>>51712478
That does seem pretty ridiculous on first reading. I guess we'll see. There's probably something there we're missing.

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>Venator Dakar

>>51713315
Looks like Skorne is following the Circle trend of "I've got details on my details!"

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Purifier, finally. Word is it's a 3 model kit for $24.99. Still no trace of the Revelator.

>>51713442
Except without the insane character warbeasts as Drakes are unplayable in Mk3 so a character one certainly won't be. The fact that the bond is so strong but with such a weak caster is a huge kick in the teeth when you look at Loki.

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>>51713211
Busty Skorne babes. Nice.

>>51711943
>Furthermore, many classic horror things don't work on an army scale
That's actually quite a good complaint. I hadn't considered it, but a spooky faction fighting against Cryx or something would be kinda silly.

>>51713763
>Drakes are unplayable in Mk3
That's a bit of a stretch. They're not warping the meta or anything, but they're hardly "unplayable".

Out of curiosity, what would you consider a fair price for a boostable magic spray at RAT 5 / POW 14? Obviously 8 is way too much in your opinion, so what would it be?

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Justify 42 points.

>>51714041
I'd take 2 PGMTs over a Drake.

>>51713808

Anyone notice how Skorne got kind of cool?

>>51714106
Looks cool, I guess?

>>51714106
>Justify 42 points.
Has a boat for a hat.

>>51714106
17" threat with Doomy2?

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>>51713808

>>51713211
dat feat.. Ferrox possible threat goes from 17 to 19 now with overtake and morg3 (not taking account any movement buff morg3 might have spell wise)

PLEASE DON'T NERF FERROX!

>>51714163
Having a pimp and his two Kitana clones does not make a faction cool, anon.

>>51714222
kitana/meleena .. WITNESSED

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>>51713808
Anyone notice that the hair bands on his "escorts" are similar to the ones on this image?

hrmm i'm feeling a makeda conversion coming along soon

>>51714106
>jusitfy

I has a boat

>>51714250
>Having a pimp and his two Kitana clones does not make a faction cool, anon.
You sure about that? Because he looks cool as hell.

>>51714120
It's a valid consideration, but that doesn't rule out the drake. The Xerxis2 spam list alone probably rules out the possibility of making the Drake cheaper.

>>51713190
If you're going to give him that little armor, why bother armoring him at all?

>>51714926
Maybe he rolls up into a morph ball.

>>51713763
Dude, the anon you replied to was talking about how over detailed the Dakar model was.

Been out for a long ass time, Mk1 was my jam, Mk2 I played like 6 games. But the scene is coming back in my local area so I'm jumping back in with mercs, buying up a Cephylex "everything" as well as what I need for an ashlynn army (sans another unit of eliminators and some nomads)

Any tips to get the most out of the cephylex army?

>>51709513

So fucking hard right now.

>>51715227
He was talking about Circle releases too. Circles releases blow Skorne's releases out of the water.

>Circle
Una2
Storm Raptor
Loki

>Skorne
Zaadesh2
Desert Hydra
Chiron

Circle got a completely broken caster, a colossal that actually sees competitive play, and Mk2 Molik Karn. Skorne got Zaadesh2, a useless colossal, and a character version of an unplayed light with a strong bond for a weak caster.

>>51715393
Was he? I'm not arguing your point or anything, I just don't see how the post you replied to was talking the rules in any way.

>>51715419
He mentioned Circle so IDGAF.

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Man, Trollbloods don't really have many character beasts do they
>Mulg
>Rok
>Dozer & Smigg
Where are all the character troll beasts?

>>51715393
Who is using storm raptors

>>51715393

>How dare you be enjoy about anything!

>>51715496
Pretty sure the winner of LVO had Una1 with a Storm Raptor in his non-Una2 list. I know that someone who placed highly did.

Ok. So couple of questions. And I need legit answers, not trolls or fanboys. Be realistic.
First, should I invest into Warmachine? As in, is this game actually going to last with a large amount of players?
Second, I want to play Khador. What should I get to start out? I want to include a colossal, but I don't really have to keep going for more jacks since I am aware they suffer in Khador.
And finally, what are hard counters to Khador? Or in other words, what should I look out for?

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>>51715393


>Skorne got Zaadesh2
>Circle got a completely broken caster

And now Zaadesh2 is arguably better than post-nerf Una2. You did good Circle!

>Desert Hydra
>a useless colossal
>Storm Raptor
>actually sees competitive play

How could anyone come to the conclusion that the Desert Hydra is useless? Likewise how can anyone claim that the Storm Raptor sees competitive play other than Tom Guan and Jeff Everitt trolling people at the LVO?

>a character version of an unplayed light

Why is this relevant at all? Molik Karn was a character version of an unplayed light and he carried the faction for an entire edition.

Then there's you just being retarded and not just comparing stuff cross faction, but comparing unreleased models crossed faction.

>>51715493
To be fair, mon of the Hordes factions had more than 3 till this new wave of releases. Trolls got a 42 point dude wearing a ship instead of what I can only guess to have been Rok's fire or slag equivalent.

>>51715493

Trollbloods don't have many heavies period. 4 non character heavies and 3 character heavies is a fraction of what every faction has.

>inb4 trolls are the light warbeast faction shitposters
>inb4 butthurt trollplayers with 'where's m-muh non character heavy with light peepee?'

I can see why PP struggles to come up with something creative with troll heavies, but it's a pretty large hole in the faction that needed to be filled like 4 years ago. The easy way out is to just make another plastic troll kit with the Earthborn as one of the options, and then two new ones.

>>51715550
I suppose it's a lot easier to make a character warjack than character beast
Still...

>>51715545
The answer to question one is: Depends on your local scene. Seriously, if you don't know how it looks there, we can't tell you if it's worth it. Unless you got a few friends you can play with.
Khador is really good this edition and a few casters handle jacks really well, so you're not limited to one colossal.
Since each caster brings a different toolkit, it's hard to pin down one glaring weakness, but I'd say control gives them a hard time, a bit more than other factions at least

>>51715875
Thanks! (Ignore the trip, I'm covering bait threads at the moment)
So overall, lets say I'm building a Khador army with one colossus and a few other heavy jacks, and the rest being infantry. What would you recommend towards that?

>>51715247
Cephalyx has been kind of a non-topic this edition. They're probably ok and you'll get some wins because your opponents have no idea what you're doing.

Do note that your second mercenary list can have all merc units now, the different contracts are gone

>>51712247
So you want another player to suffer because your faction is fucked for options? Perhaps do your due diligence before buying 100's dollars worth of models.

>>51712774
Try it. The biggest concern imo, is that the lights might just rip apart the Man-O-Wars and the two heavies need to fight down on attrition for the remainder of the game.

>>51715917
Bah, screw the Khador colossuses and grab a gun carriage battle engine and another warjack.

Yeah thats just opinion, but the gun carriage is bitchin, the colossals are just big fattys with shoulder guns. Ooooo. Wasn't that Behemoth's thing? Isn't Behemoth still better than either colossal?

As a core though, I'd pick a caster, then grab a few jacks. The battlebox helps here, and the caster with it is pretty cool.

For example, I am also a newish khador player with a limited collection. I have a warcaster (sorscha1), 2 jacks (destroyer and juggernaut), and some infantry (widowmakers, MoWshocktroopers). I want another jack (kodiak) and infantry (rifle corp). I also want a gun carriage cause that thing is just cool.

You can switch pretty much any of those things (in parenthesis) for anything else of similar class of model.
Take marauder instead of kodiak, decimator instead of destroyer. Pick up models you like the look of, or love the rules/themes of.

>>51715393

Um... anon... the Hydra was an instant competitive adoption for Skorne. They love the miscast thing.

>>51713748
What the hell, it's just a Judicator with big Vanquisher cannons on it. It can't be hard to sculpt or produce, it's no Hydra. With the Hurricane coming out in April, it'll be the last colossal unreleased, hell we don't even have a render yet. It's closing in on what, four years?

>>51716655
Ah, only two years. Feels like four though

>>51715393
I thought everyone said the Storm Raptor sucks ass.

wat

>>51713808

And with that, Gangsta-Morghoul and his fly-ass bitches take their place among the assortment of literally god-damned weirdos that constitute the Skorne leadership cadre.

>>51714106

New player here... is that a new colossal?

>>51715744
It's also sad because right after they talk about how they don't have to do parallel releases anymore, they give most of the battlebox casters, that have they're book out, characters.

>>51716764
Trolls new Gargantuan, the Sea King. Announced in their Command book.

>>51716796
Woh woh woh...

Does this mean we're looking at something on this scale for every book?

>>51709513
Is that a fucking boat?

When does the new faction drop?

>>51716836
Nope. PP isn't doing parallel releases anymore. So, Trolls got a new (Incredibly, fucking awful) Gargantuan and almost everyone else so far has a new character heavy for their battlebox caster.

>>51716836
No, they're doing away with parallel development. Everybody else seems to be getting just a character jack or beast with their book. We don't yet know what the theme books will contain though.

>>51716922
>>51716905

Well shit that's kind of a bummer.

Looking forward to the Man'o'war theme force book. Supposedly gonna have a battle engine in it.

More excited to paint the minis then play them but that's just me.

>>51716905
They're not all for the battlebox casters. Cryx's is for Aikos, and we haven't seen Khador's yet, if they are getting one and their special thing isn't that Graylord guy or Old Witch2 battle engine.

>>51713808
Honestly the big goofy sword ruins it for me. Not only does it make the model needlessly difficult to fit into a case, but it's also very out of character. Morghoul is meant to be a master tormentor and assassin, not some brute who wields an oversized sword.

>>51716992

He's a Dominar now, anon.

How to say this... he sold out? He's out of the game, left the 'hood, and for good? He puts on a fucking polo shirt and goes golfing with that fat bastard Raseth on sunday mornings instead of going to the church? They take turns laughing at each others jokes, and they're all about poor people that aren't Dominars, like they both are?

>>51717073
Morghoul is only a Dominar as a technicality. He turned the Paingivers into a pseudo-house and Makeda crowned him leader of it owing to how he's actually an insane badass in the fluff, giving him the Dominar title by default. Considering Morghoul will kill anyone who's a threat to the empire on sight and probably wouldn't mind killing Rasheth considering he's hampering Skorne war efforts for personal gain, I don't think he sold out and joined the country club.

>>51716992

Don't know what his rules are but, you could always just stick a smaller sword on his model.

I am a bit offput by the sword honestly but I may end up either replacing or remolding it somehow.

Overall though, he has a pretty cool sculpt.

I just wonder what he is going to be. Makeda3 is kind of our Butcher3. Is Morghoul still going to be an assassin? Is he going to be more support focused? It would be kind of cool if his assassin ladies are able to basically peg enemies with Blind or some effect to set up other models. Similar to Iron Moms servators.

Not the highest hopes for a Skorne caster but he looks kind of cool at least.

>>51713808
Remember kids, this is CGI. The end product will be far less detailed.

>>51717186
Considering the description of him, I imagine he'll be more about helping infantry murder things than personally assassinating things. Not that we ever got a Morghoul with rules capable of assassination.

>>51717222

Yeah, his feat is going to be nutso with Nihilators.

I am actually kind of excited to see how the rest of his kit works (or doesn't work). Then I am sure I will be disappointed afterwards.

The Basilisk heavy will probably actually be better than people think though. That seems to be about the way things go.

>>51716982
Is the cryx one for Aikos? Guess that's what happens when you don't fact check before you post.

>>51717294
If it actually has the annihilating gaze and that's not some weird typo, that's a pretty good gun it has. It'd have to be pretty overcosted not to be competitive just for that.

Will Pagani confirmed annihilating gaze is just the name of chiron's gun

>>51716992

Morghoul3 and Morghoul2 have the same sword, if it bothers you then you can just get the smaller version from before. I don't know what it is about the digital sculpting, but they've definitely had to scale up some of the models to compensate for some reason. You can see the same thing with Zaadesh2 when everyone though he had the first RNG 3 weapon in the game but it turns out it was the exact same sword as before.

>>51717073

>sold out
>left the hood

Nah, nah, Morghoul restructuring the Paingivers into an official house gives him an insane amount of political clout. The entire Empire relies on the Paingivers for managing their warbeasts and slaves(which their entire economy is based around). It's not really a stretch to say that he's the most powerful skorne in the Empire now.

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working on khador themed factory.
What are you mates working on?

>>51711629
You should go back there.

>>51717186
>It would be kind of cool if his assassin ladies are able to basically peg enemies

It would.

A buddy who introduced me to the game bought me High Reclaimer and a warjack to assemble and paint after I took an interest in Protrctorate.

What's a good way to build around High Reclaimer? Just sac small units and cast spells then rez them?

>>51713763
>Drakes are unplayable in Mk3
Hah. Nice one.

>>51715393
>Circle got a completely broken caster, a colossal that actually sees competitive play, and Mk2 Molik Karn. Skorne got Zaadesh2, a useless colossal, and a character version of an unplayed light with a strong bond for a weak caster.
You have to be fucking squidding me.

2na is fixed. Storm Raptor is fucking garbage. Loki is good but not OP. Zaadesh is fucking amazing. Hydra is viable. We know too little about Chiron.

>>51715545
>First, should I invest into Warmachine? As in, is this game actually going to last with a large amount of players?
That depends on your local area. If people there play WMH, go for it. If you have a group of people to start with, go for it.
>Second, I want to play Khador. What should I get to start out? I want to include a colossal, but I don't really have to keep going for more jacks since I am aware they suffer in Khador.
Start with the battle box and learn the game. Then expand into whichever caster you find intersting.
>And finally, what are hard counters to Khador? Or in other words, what should I look out for?
Maybe control? Faction hard counters are not really a thing anymore.

>>51719617
Don't just build around his feat. Get some models that are worth rezzing, but also get models that interact well with Hand of Fate.

A typical list includes Vengers, Cleansers+UA, Knights Exemplar + UA (though these are more optional right now) and/or Idrians. I'd start with Idrians and Vengers.

You also want some jacks. The character jack with Arcane Vortex (can't remember those generic Protectorate names) is popular with him as are your staple jacks like the Reckoner or Templar.

Oh and you want the Choir.

>>51715917

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Vladimir 2) Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion [+27]
- Conquest [37]
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (min) [10]
- Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]

Unfortunately, Khador doesn't do the Colossal/heavy mix too well, save for Harkevitch, but then you aren't taking infantry. Maybe Strakov can do it? I'll post anohter list in a sec, but its fairly outdated, and not really that strong at the moment comparatively. This Vlad 2 list is one of the strongest lists in the game currently. Its better out of theme because of reinholdt, who's anti-stealth tech is invaluable.

>>51720399
http://conflictchamber.com/#b31b7cf88CeQ7X7W8t7X7V

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Strakhov 1) Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28]
- Victor [38]
- Torch [18]
- Ruin [17]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (2) [4]

Maybe this would work more for what you want? Its been a while since I played the guy, but this has had some success. Its just the winterguard bullshit right now, especially with theme. So take those 4 min units 3x rockets with Vlad 1, and say "model diversity." Its honestly as bad as with Cygnar and the Storm lances.

>>51715939
Fair nuff, "play the unpopular faction, be the dark horse."

As for Ashlynn, yeah it's partly why I chose her, I am a bit bummed we lost access to the cygnar gun mages though.

>>51721406
>I am a bit bummed we lost access to the cygnar gun mages though.
I am 100% certain that will get fixed in the near-ish future. You did get the superior gun mages though.

>>51721406
Llael theme book is probably coming with Gastonne2 and/or Ashlynn2.

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How does Cryx play against Skorne? I have a 2player starter box waiting to be assembled and my ancient Legion stuff doesn't want to be put together (it broke my fucking bit trying to pin it).

I'm excited to actually have someone who wants to play again.

>>51721676
I don't think Skorne is a particular problem for Cryx. Just bring what you are bringing anyway and you should have a good game.

>>51720119
Loki is phenomenal dude. You get to kill a free heavy every turn by letting a Stalker finish it off then putting up Dodge under Star Crossed.

>>51721723

>what you are bringing anyway

Admittedly, I haven't played but 5 games like 6 years ago in MKII, so I don't have an "anyway" list. My list would be the 2 player starter. Is that fine?

>>51721810
Ah I see. Sure, it should be fine. The list will have some problems at higher point values into other factions (Cygnar), but into Skorne it'll be fine. They don't really bring that much shooting, especially shooting that ignores stealth, so worst case you can sacrifice your feat to ensure delivery.

>>51721838

That's good because I do like the Cryx aesthetics.

What's a good way to go further? I'm thinking Denny. Are there any other box collections to get? Should I magnetize the jacks in the starter set?

It's weird being excited about a game again.

>>51721986
Sure, Denny1 is really strong and you can probably play everything with her. Other good things that can slot into basically any list are Satyxis Raiders +UA, Warwitch Sirens and the Inflictor.

>>51721986
I do not think you can magnetize the starter jacks as you miss the extra arms and desu the Corruptor is weird.
You can upgrade the Reaper to Malice as it does the same thing but better.

>>51722005

Cool, I'll keep it in mind. Maybe go ham with tax money, or at least a little something.

>>51722028

What makes it weird?

I guess the corruptor is an upgrade kit?

>>51722203
>I guess the corruptor is an upgrade kit?
It's part of a multi kit of Slayer/Reaper/Corruptor. It's weird because it's kind of expensive for what it does. Which is an ongoing theme for Cry ranged jacks, aside from the Kraken.

>>51718770
Looks nice, keep it up!

>>51722203
>>51722245
As he said its not that its bad its that its unfocused.
Theoretically it has utility and such but its kind of awkward to use.
Malice is the upgrade kit and its decent.
Also you might want to get the App for all the cards or check the first post if they are still there.

>>51722245

Ah ok. I'll have to remember that.

>>51722326

Yea, I have the app and Cryx loaded. Malice does seem pretty nice.

My friend is now looking at the 2 player horde starter, so the Cryx/Skorne halves will likely be facing off hat should be an even game, right?

>>51715393
Riiiiiiight. That storm raptor, man, really tearing up the scene. And nobody's going to find a use for that "Krueger2's defining spell in animus form" thing. Nope. Not at all. I mean, it's not like you ever actually SEE gunlines, right?

>>51715545
Check our your local club or shop. If there are some cool people to play with, then yes, absolutely. Just understand this community has a somewhat more competitive mindset than the beer-n-pretzels basement gaming crowd... which is fine, because the rules are robust enough to support that. But it's something you should be aware of.

>>51717124
Don't kid yourself, that's just a line to keep his constituents happy.

>>51717701
Well that seems needlessly confusing. A gun called "annihilating gaze" in a faction that already has a rule by that name, but it doesn't have the rule? What the... ? That's like giving somebody a weapon named "Chain Weapon" and not giving it Chain Weapon. Or not knowing what a "Claymore" looks like (either of them), or... ah, hell, nevermind.

>>51711779
You can run Posse with Helga, if nothing else.

Access to Defender's Ward is probably half the reason they got nerfed so hard in the edition jump.

>>51722753
>Well that seems needlessly confusing
Are you new to this game? All abilities that give out free upkeeps could very easily be given the name Great Power: Self/Controller/Proximity or something to that effect, but instead we get like 5+ names for the same fucking thing to make the game arbitrarily require more learning than it needs.

>>51722696
Yes the 2 halves should go pretty well together for the start. That said I have no idea for either trolls or skorne I could be completely wrong.
Agathia is good if not a bit bland but she has a nice toolboxy vibe and you can decide later if you want to expand

>>51715393
So, on the Storm Raptor.

I think it was the finals game of iron gauntlet and you can rejigger your lists for that final. I'm pretty sure it was Tom Guan throwing a Storm Raptor on Una 1 to troll people who buy netdeck lists. That was his off list with one of the Baldur's I think? He knew he was going to play Una 2 so he kind of said "fuck it."

The Storm Raptor is playable but if you're going to look at lists with no concept of the how they are played or the player's personalities, then go and sperg about it on the internet, and THEN say shit like

>Mk2 Molik Karn

What in the actual fuck?

Why is /tg/ so autistic when it comes to warmachine? Go outside.

>>51722753
>Annihilating Gaze

The dude who wrote the advert fucked up and is currently being whipped. The actual rule on the gun is Inflict Pain, according to Pagani on Skorne FB page.

And yes, it is retarded that they named the gun the same thing as a wholly different effect in the same faction, on a piece that will likely even be taken in the same list.

>>51723743
>on a piece that will likely even be taken in the same list
I doubt that part. Basilisks at least want nothing from the Soulward.

>>51720334
Thanks for the tips. Now I'll have something to do this weekend.

>>51706654
So i'm kinda tired of Legion for a bit and want to expand to warmachine. I got 2 choices: Menoth or Cyriss. What should i pick?

>>51724583
Menoth if you like fire
or
Cyriss if you like math

>>51724583
Do you want to invest as much effort into your new faction as you did into Legion? If so -> Protectorate, if not ->Convergence.

>>51724883
I'd say that Cyriss takes LESS effort, if not on the table. Less released minis means less to buy and paint, and since it's on a no-new-release schedule you don't have to worry about meta shifts for the faction.

>>51724909
That's what I wrote.

>>51722832
>Agathia is good if not a bit bland
Probably true of any caster that's good to learn with. That said, I like Agathia. She's got some neat tricks up her sleeves.

>>51724942
>She's got some neat tricks up her sleeves.
Vanish is fucking amazing.

>>51722799
>Are you new to this game?
Very new. I just started the other day in 2008.

Nah, I get what you're saying... to be fair the needless name duplication is a HELL of a lot better now than it was then. Every single caster used to have a couple of unique spells. There are some advantages to keeping effects separate like those you describe - makes errata'ing one model and not the other a little easier, for instance.

>>51724633
Whoa, WHOA, what is this guy doing with his shoulder pads? Who does he think he is? Has Mr. Vlad signed off on this??

I mean, did this guy even READ the Officious Khadoran Prosperous Empire Shoulder Pad Sizes By Rank Authorized Memorandum?

>>51724955
Vanish IS fucking amazing.

>>51722028
I think the upgrade to Malice is not always the best choice. Sure, you get +1 RAT which is really good, but on the other side you lose sustained attack, which is also a huge boon, although when you have MAT 7 anyway you might not need it as much I guess?

>>51724925
true, I misread what you wrote.

>>51722753

Can't forget Blightbringer the spell and Blightbringer the beast.

>>51722028
Sure, you can magnetize the starter jacks, and then just buy one multi-kit. Then you have three chassis and a combo of two slayer arms, two reaper arms, and one corrupter arms. Lots of options.

Or of course, like you say, just have two magnetized chassis and make the third into a Malice (or go nuts and convert it into a Seether, Inflictor, Nightmare, etc... a lot of models are built on that basic body shape).

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Any general tips on getting the alphastrike? I play cryx and if I don't get the alphastrike odds are my jacks are toast, which is generally what happens. I either misjudge the distance and run my jacks and troops to far forward turn one and they get the drop on me or I play a bit further back and I feel like im wasting my opportunity to attack by playing footsies with my opponent when half my army's siting on its ass, bonus points if they have a shooting unit/jack/warbeast that they can ping me with while all this is going on.

>>51726121
>I either misjudge the distance
???? You can premeasure to prevent that, ask your opponents how fast their stuff is and if they got buffs, too.
If you want to be lazy though just play Coven and use the super stealth feat, that should get you everywhere

>>51725411
Assuming they're just coming out of the battlebox, Malice can be pretty great. You get her with a caster like Agathia that has an ARM buff, and she manages to scoop up a few souls, Malice quickly gets into untouchable territory. At 25 or even 50 pts, theres often not much that can touch 13/24.

>>51726181
the problem is I do that and somehow still get fucked up. I suppose my real problem is that I don't know WHEN to strike and it just sucks when my army's just sitting their when I feel like I could be doing something with them samething when my caster is a debuff caster and I have to basically engage or waste an arc node to hopefully get a fire and forget upkeep de-buff off to do anything, it just feels like I cant dictate any control.

I used to be able to do this in MK.II but I think iv caught a case of the dumb in MK.III and am having a hard time for some reason.

I got a tournament on Saturday? What's some good lists I can run for Skorne? I'm thinking Makeda 1 and Rasheth. Or Makeda 1 and Xerxis 1.

Cats and reivers for Makeda. Cataphracts and beasts for Xerxis. Not sure on specifics or if any of that works.

>I think it has been confirmed that the first CID models will be the Halloween Faction. I believe it has also been confirmed that the first Cryx CID will be the new Bane Theme Book and also the older Bane models.

What does CID stand for?

>>51727354
Community Integradted(?) Development

Basically we get to beta test models before release and our feedback(God help us) will theoretically be taken in consideration.

This sounds like a good idea in theory but I reserve judgement till we see how it works.

>>51727480
Is PP gonna buff banes? Bless them.

>>51727552
No. You will be playtesting new stuff.

>>51727588
And existing stuff.

>>51727634
No

>>51727741
If there's errata coming for already released models, those errata can also be part of the open playtest as far as I've understood it. Look at the insider about that, they wrote that errata will also be part of it

>>51727741
Except they fucking said so moron.

>>51727254
Rasheth Makeda1 feels good to me. Makeda1 can deliver Swordsman WM mini feat very well.

>>51727254
>>51728354
That sounds like a good idea. For lists you could go with something like this:

http://conflictchamber.com/#b91b6Icu4x4A6abE6v6v6x5Ufs
Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Mammoth [38]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Savage [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Siege Animantarax [17]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Legends of Halaak [8]

http://conflictchamber.com/#b91b3_5G5JeF676a5U6yfsfF
Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Aradus Soldier [16]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Legends of Halaak [8]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]

>>51726036
Which magnets should I use then? I've been hesitant to assemble because I feel like magnetizing in WMH is too much of a boon to pass up.

>>51722832

If the Cryx and Skorne 2 player armies play well against each other, then I'll push my friend to get that, then.

>>51728621
I'd be more inclined to bring something like this:

>(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Feralgeist [2]

>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Mammoth [38]
- Agonizer [6]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

Makeda1 brings big hitters, a feat that can get them there, and a strong roadblock. Rasheth brings 19 arc nodes and a fucking MAMMOTH, son.

What do Anons think about Vyros2 with the Shyeel theme? Been dojoing it a bit, but haven't put it on the table yet. Battlegroup-wide shield guard just seems ridiculous in a jack heavy list (I know it was with Lucant).

Right off the bat, I'm thinking the answer is not straight griffon spam. Capping Synergy to +3 seems like it might limit that build too much. Plus I never actually had that many griffons - and if I didn't do it in Mk2, I'm certainly not going to now. =) Here's what I'm considering:

Forges of War - Vyros2 - 75 pts
- Imperatus [22]
- Manticore [14]
- Manticore [14]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Chimera [8]
- Aspis [6]
House Shyeel Battle Mages [10]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
House Shyeel Magister [0] *
House Shyeel Magister [0] *
House Shyeel Artificer [0]

Thinking is.. you've still got a pile of lights to get in there, build synergy, etc and the trio of heavies give you plenty of armor cracking if you need it. Plus some versatility with guns, covering fire, etc. Probably don't need the Chimera, but I don't have a 4th griffon at the moment.

Battlemages could probably be dropped to reshake the BG, but I like having a unit in there... actually considered trying to drop a jack and squeeze in a second one. They're potentially nice as threat extenders, a little more volume of attacks, and feat bait. They're also surprisingly hard to deal with at range - DEF 15, ARM 14, blast immune and plentiful shield guards. The whole list is generally pretty resistant to gunlines, and once it gets to melee, well... it's a synergy caster.

>>51730418
Another option is to go for the full 100 points of warjacks and get 4 free solos. I also considered the Hydra with him as a 2nd heavy... Bird's Eye + guns is obviously a thing, and shield guard lets you force your opponent to give you the free focus.

Forges of War - Vyros2 - 75 pts
- Imperatus [22]
- Hydra [15]
- Hydra [15]
- Griffon [8] x6
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
House Shyeel Magister [0] *
House Shyeel Magister [0] *
House Shyeel Artificer [0] *
House Shyeel Artificer [0] *

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I like this list. It's unbelievable trash, but I don't mind.

>>51731051
>Kossites
you have made a terrible, TERRIBLE mistake

is the game not shit yet

>>51731672
>Have the warjacks who do too much for their points had a points increase yet?
No.

Fun fact, a 12 point Khador Juggernaut has the same base P+S as a 38 point Skorne Mammoth!

>>51731833
Yes and it also has less attacks, doesn't give you a free spell, is butt-fuck slow, requires protective resources from a model that loses you the game if it dies to work and is virtually useless once someone disables the right arm or rolls 12 damage into the 4.

>>51731981
>Yes and it also has less attacks
OVERKILL DOES NOT COUNT
>doesn't give you a free spell
OH BOY COUNTERBLAST IN A FACTION OF MELEE CASTERS
>is butt-fuck slow
SAME SPEED AS THE MAMMOTH
>requires protective resources from a model that loses you the game if it dies to work
OH SORRY I FORGOT YOU ACTUALLY HAD SPELLS WORTH USING ON YOUR CASTERS
>and is virtually useless once someone disables the right arm or rolls 12 damage into the 4
YOU HAVE MECHANICS THAT LITERALLY COST LESS THAN ONE POINT PER MODEL

BUT I'M SURE WARMACHINE ISN'T ACTUALLY DEMOLISHING HORDES IN TOURNAMENTS RIGHT NOW

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>>51731833

What state is Scyrah in right now?

>>51732111
Repping House Vyre colors

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>>51732035
>LVO 2017
>1st place: Circle
>2nd place: Circle
>3rd place: Trolls

>>51731833
Nice bait, you must be some kind of master baiter.

im thinking of grabbing a new unit to freshen up my army any suggestions? im thinking of either getting some Bane Warriors,Satyxis Raiders or some Carrion Thralls. obviously id use the banes for hardhitting ARM cracking the carrion thralls for a tarpit/skirmish unit and the raiders for high speed power skirmish unit.

id like to get some input before I commit to anything

>>51732141
According to Discount Gaming we've seen
61 Hordes top ten placements since Mk3 compared to 120 Warmachine top ten placements since Mk3.

But yeah, one (and only one) tourney swept by hordes factions (two of which were from one faction that had problems and has since been nerfed into the ground) completely negate what is otherwise a 2:1 ratio.

>>51713190
I'm hoping he's fine without Xekaar, because a heavy Basilisk is cool.

>>51732417
And does DGI tell you the number of top 10 places vs the number of entries?

>>51732787
No, it only shows top placements. There is no indication for total number of participants nor the warmachine/hordes faction split.

>>51732761
He'll be at the very least a decent option for Xerxis2. Moreso if you still run Drake spam, which is still functional in Mk3.

>>51732761

I'm hoping he has an interesting Animus personally.

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How's this list sound for building off the battlebox?

Trollbloods Army - 25 / 25 points
Theme: The Power of Dhunia

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Troll Whelps [0]

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>>51732111
THE GODS WILL RISE AGAIN

>>51729798
Sure, go for it. I'm not a fan of Max Swordsmen though. They only really deal damage on 1 turn and you won't deliver 11 models on that turn. Might aswell put them to Min. Then you could take out the Soulward and upgrade the Brute to a Soldier.

Furthermore, while the Feralgeist is nice, the Bellows Crew is just nasty with Makeda1.

No objections on the Rasheth list.

>>51729683
>Which magnets should I use then?
Just go for some generic magnets. For heavy warjack/beast arms you might want round ones with ~4-6mm diameter and similar height. Don't worry about the heads, just assemble it with the one you like most, unless it has a head weapon, like the Cryx lights.

>>51731051
I assume your plan was formulated by reading the labels on an entire supermarket counter worth of jam? It's kind of janky, but will work into some matchups. Are those 75p though?

>>51731833
Cry more. Or learn to play. Your choice.

>>51731672
Yes. Every faction can win against every other faction and player skill is finally the determining factor. Internal faction balance still needs work, but that's getting fixed slowly.

>>51732417
Uhhh, but that's how mk2 looked like, too? More Warmachine than Chodes?

>>51736805
Yes. More players and also more placements. Oh and more factions.

>>51736813
So what's the problem then?

>>51736843
People complaining on /tg/ because they can't git gud.

The Hordes top finishes are skewed by Wurmwood and Una2 breaking the game.

>>51737399
And they're skewed by Skorne formerly being shit. And Warmachine just having more players in general.

>>51737523
What if it has more players because it's better?

>>51735432

Alright. I will take a look for them and keep that in mind, thanks. I guess I have to order magnets? Any chance they'd be a craft store or something?

>>51737576
I have had reasonable luck with just ordering them off amazon. But I live in the old world, so you milage might vary.

>>51737538
They are perceived as better by some, so that's a factor.

>>51737617
Warcasters straight up have better spells than warlocks, which wasn't addressed when buffing warjacks.

Real question from a returning noobie with an interested friend known to be a sperg about it.

What are the pros and cons of Warlock and Beasts vs Warcaster and Jacks?

>>51737748
Warbeasts cost more points and have the same statlines and damage output. Warcasters generally have more focus than warlocks have fury, and have better spells too.

>>51737748
That's like asking the pope about the benefits of condoms as a means to contain STDs. Ask someplace else.

>>51737748
Warlocks don't have to manage their resources, they and their beasts can basically just yolo everything, from boosting/buying attacks, to simply making an extremely hurt beast fully functional by healing off a point or two and that is reflected in the point cost difference between the two systems.

>>51737868
>Warlocks don't have to manage their resources

lol

I guess that's why every list fields mandatory fury management models.

>>51737748
Jacks tend to be cheaper, but they're not too self sufficient and crippled systems will ruin a jack
Beasts are more expensive, but are a bit more self sufficient and crippled aspects aren't as damaging due to healing

>>51737933
This is a fair assessment of the situation.

>>51737538
>What if <Warmachine> has more players because it's better?
Could be that. Probably also though a bit of the "new shiny" effect. Mk3 is still less than a year old - I don't think the novelty of Power Up and finally actually fielding jacks in real lists has completely worn off yet.

>>51737868
Gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't play a Hordes faction.

>>51737538
But if Warmachine had more players during mk2, too, why does this matter? It's still the same between then and now

>>51738296
To be fair, >>51737766 doesn't look like he has ever played a Warmachine faction either.

>>51738597
Yeah. If anything I think that >>51737933 comes the closest to a good generalization of the two. There are other patterns of course, it's just easy to over-generalize.

Like - jacks tend to have higher MAT and P+S on average, whereas warbeasts tend to have more initial attacks and can more readily buy additional attacks.

>>51738755
>Hordes players can just suicide their 18 point heavies for 12 points jacks, it doesn't matter if the beast dies because you got the alpha!
Like actually fuck off.

>>51739203
>being THIS bad at WMH
Oh come on now.

>>51737538
Or it could be because it has 5 main factions to Hordes 4, 1 mini faction to 0, and a larger roster of mercs compared to minions.

There's more stuff to Warmachine since it was first, so there are more options to appeal to different people.

Could it be a power level disparity? Sure, but it could also be almost any other reason.

>>51739203
t. shit player

>>51739203
How about suiciding 18+ point jacks into troll maulers and skorne gladiators?

>>51740398
Why are you playing 18+ point jacks?

>>51740661
Never heard of fucking Stormclads? Or EoT?

>>51739203
>Hordes players can just suicide their 18 point heavies for 12 points jacks, it doesn't matter if the beast dies because you got the alpha!
Are you being deliberately dense? That's not what I actually wrote. I play Hordes, in case that wasn't obvious.

There IS absolutely an argument to be made that, in the Mk3 transition, they made some jacks a bit too cheap and some beasts a bit too expensive. It's something that's been publicly discussed, at length, by much better players than me, and even acknowledged by the devs. But your pathetic tantrum contributes fuck-all to that discussion.

But if we have to sit here and explain to you why a Slayer costs 10 and a Gladiator costs 15, Anon... you need to git gud.

>>51740661
>Why are you playing 18+ point jacks?
>Never heard of fucking Stormclads? Or EoT?
There are examples of jacks across the spectrum of costs that see competitive play. Even Behemoth, who costs TWENTY FIVE goddamn points, sees some serious tabletime. Conversely, most of the really cheap heavies are cheap because they're not actually all that impressive. Once you start piling on outside support, you can get some work out of them, but obviously at that point the effective cost also starts to go up.

>>51737781
I get that >>51737748 is a trigger and he's not likely to ever get a straight answer, but... how does that analogy make any sense at all?

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>>51706654

I played some pickup games back in 2nd but never had the time to really get invested into this game. Could I please get a rundown on where some factions stand under Mk3?

> Trollbloods
I love the look of their infantry, especially the Kriel Warriors and Fennblades. Maulers are alright, otherwise not so fussed on the Beasts side.
I've heard endless bitching about the faction losing their identity and being no fun to use; how true is that? Also a lot of complaints about needing way too many support pieces to make the melee units work.
If I can play massed infantry with a few spot heavies, ideally with Grissel, I'd be happy. I'm also interested in the King gargantuans, if those are doing well.

> Retribution
Again I love the look of their infantry elements, especially the Mage Hunters, and all of their Lights look great. However I don't like any of the Heavies.
I was really taken in by the old tier lists which is a shame to see disappear. How are Retribution doing at the moment? I don't want to play a no-fun faction so would like to avoid something frustrating for an opponent.

> Skorne
Specifically Naaresh, Xerxis and Morghoul. Xerxis looks like he's lost his tier, which is sad. How would a massed Paingiver list look like?
Again, I'd prefer to use Lights and Archidons as much as possible. The Hydra is also very pretty.

> Convergence
It doesn't look like they've been given anything new, which is disappointing.
I love the weirdness angle with all the chained activations and focus efficiency, but am concerned that I'd be limited to only 1-2 viable lists.

Many thanks for any help.

Here are the makeda and Rasheth lists I want to play, based off what I have (I don't have karax or the mammoth or more than 1x any unit besides beast handlers).

Makeda 1:
Hydra, titan Gladiator and krea, min beast handlers, max Ferox, max venators with ua.

Rasheth: Agonizer, krea, tibbers, Bronzeback, Gladiator. Reivers +ua, max paingiver bh, legends of halaak (for channeling)

>>51742322
He was only going to get very biased answers. But I was proven wrong by the likes of>>51737933

>>51742653
If you're dropping Mak1 into shooting anyways you don't really need a Krea in your other list.

Would some kind Anon please explain to me the excitement about Loki? He doesn't look too bad, and I can definitely see uses for him, but... he definitely seems like he could just end up in the "why take this when I could just take another Stalker" bucket.

In particular, his synergies with Tanith are not apparent to me at all.

>>51743592
Hook.

>>51743124
Fair enough. What would be good, then? I have a point left over, so removing the krea gives me 8 points to play with. Is tyrant radheim 8 points?

is there any way to get the parts to convert a Prime Axiom to a Conflux? I want to magnetize my two Primes so they can be both, but I can't find a way to get the pieces that isn't "message Privateer Press and get the pieces that way"

>>51743592
GET OVER HERE

Is Terminus playable in mk3?

>>51743592
>16" non-linear threat range that brings the target into your pack of wolves
Gee I dunno why he's so good.

>Drag a heavy
>Get some damage on it
>Put up dodge
>Stalker finishes it off, Sprints away
>Enemy tries to kill Loki
>They miss
>Dodge away
And that's the story of how Loki can kill a heavy every turn.

>>51744696
>infantry caster
>playable in the edition where infantry is pointless

>>51745249
Irusk2 is playable and Thexus can hold his own. Your assessment is a little off.

Anyone got Brickhouse's rules?

>>51745385
>Cryx undead infantry

>>51745429
DEF36
ARM24
CMD36

>>51732111
solidly tier 1

Hey guys, I'm trying to finish my collection of useful mercs which work for Khador.

So far, I have:

- Eiryss1
- Kell Bailloch
- Alten Ashley
- Orin Midwinter
- Sylys Watadumbname
- Reinholdt
- Gobber Tinker (there are always 2 points left over...)

Planning to buy:
- Saxon Orrik
- Gorman
- Ragman

Anyone I missed? Are Ayana and Holt worth it in mk3? Is Eiryss2 worth a damn? What about big Gorman, the one with ambush?

>>51742522
The game is balanced enough that everyone is playable.

I'd steer clear of Convergence purely because they will never get new models, and this was known when they got their initial release.

Skorne just got buffed a ton so they are alright right now.
Retribution is a Warmachine faction, and therefore doing just fine but they are not exactly a beginner faction to my understanding.
Trollbloods are on the lower side of the power curve but are still perfectly playable.

I recommend picking based on look and lore (if you care for lore).

>>51744339
With my last 8 points in that list I'd want an Agonizer to sit behind the Hydra, and a Feralgeist to sit on an objective or jump into the Hydra. They're both pretty safe purchases if you want to spend a little money.

>>51741449
There is no valid reason for Gladiators to cost 15 points. This means they went from 8 points in Mk2 to 15 in Mk3, which is pretty much the same cost. Except now they're DEF10 instead of DEF12.

>>51741449

That's kind of why I think there's a lot of cheaper jacks that should go up about a point or 2 and lot of Heavy Beasts should drop about a point or 2.

The price difference was a bigger deal in MK2 when the Focus/Fury mechanics had a bigger gap and a lot more Animi could be cast as support but, now, it feels like a lot of the mid range beasts cost too much.

Some of the more expensive beasts/jacks are probably okay. Bronzeback is probably okay being 18 points and Stormclads are probably fairly costed. But other like the Carnivian should probably get a point shaved off. A lot of the mid range beasts like the goats and Rhinodon are okayish. If cheap jacks went up in cost, the Goats and Rhino would probably be on par with them. Maybe they could go down some though.

will Morty2 give me a hug if I ask nice?

>>51711779
I was a die hard Posse player in Mk.II.
Have three full units and they were always the first thing I'd put in my list.
Had an amazing time with Maelok.

Mk.III rolls around.
Why should I take posse over Boomhowlers?
Same points cost double the models, tough when KD, Reveille is CMD Rise on ALL FACTION models, have ranged attacks.

Posse dies to a single hit now that they are 5 boxes, but so does Boomhowlers but you have double the models and tough on kd.

As for brigands.
Holy shit my dude they're so fucking amazing.
My current 'auto include' with gators is Boomhowlers with Max Brigands and UA along with a Wrastler and Lanyssa. No reason to not include these pieces currently.

My current Maelok drop is:
Maelok
- Blind Walker
- Blind Walker
- Wrastler
- Boneswarm

Lanyssa, Saxon, Totem Hunter, Witch Doctor, Feralgeist

Max. Boomhowler
Max. Brigands w. UA.

-----
Boomhowler gets Death Pact and moves up.
Witch Doctor gives the Brigands Undead.
It tanks and attritions really well with Boomhowlers taking the brunt of the damage while keeping Boomhowler himself safe in the back near a Blind Walker in case of shenanigan shots.
Blind Walkers channel boosted mortalities into whatever needs to die.
Maelok hangs back and either double mortality or mortality/Revive and camps one.

If there's interest I can talk more about the list or just my life in general I'm so alone.

>>51713211
Press Gang forum erupted in SJW howls when the picture of this dropped to the tune of CIS Male gaze and promotion of violence against women.
Had no idea my fellow PG's were such regressive fucks.

>>51718770
Commission work mostly.
Lylyth 3, Blightbringer, Twins, some Legion infantry.
Can't wait to be done to get my brushes on my Farrow beasts.

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>>51747499
sure anon im sure she would be glad to give you a "hug" once she's finished assembling her new arms, all 10 of them.

>>51747671

Man those women aren't even human and belong to a pain cult, they probably like being hit by papa morg

>>51722763
Boomhowler > Posse
Same points cost, literally no reason to not take them first.

>>51714926
Those are flesh hooks mostly, they pull at the skin to drive the beast mad

>>51746388
The last 8 points was referring to dumping the Krea from the Rasheth list.

>>51747720

I wonder if the tentacle jack is Morty's, trend says its Agathia's but I doubt every single new battlebox caster is getting their own character jack/beast so soon

>>51748618

It's actually for Aiakos.

Don't ask me why.

>>51748676

Oh, well that sucks, who wants to play that loser?

explains why it is the amphibious chasis and has a kraken theme

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>>51748700
I want to play him actually. the only problem is I know im walking into a skorne level train wreck. which sucks because he has the potential to be so good.

I may try to run him like a cryx version of strakov

>>51748816

In all honesty, he is probably better than you think he is but not a top tier caster. He actually looks like he could have some fun.

It is just annoying that Drag doesn't interact with Assault the way it should.

So how awful are Trollkin Scouts, actually? I just bought some because I was told I should use them in my Gunnbjorn list, then immediately after they came people told me they were garbage. Have I been had? I assume just in a casual game I'll be able to make due with them, but now I'm hearing Sluggers are the way to go.

>>51749251

Try using them.

Run them with a Stone Scribe Chronicler to give them Concealment/Stealth when you don;t have other Concealment.

Scouts might not be the best thing for a Gunbjorn list but I could see them being worth trying out. AD plus Concealment plus his feat will make them hard to kill.

Honestly, general consensus from Troll players is "everything is shit" so, fuck it, give it a shot.

>>51749369
Cool, I already have a Chronicler so I'll try and fit it somewhere in the list. Thanks for the advice! I love their models, and thats why I picked up Trolls in the first place, so I'll try and make them work.

>>51748816
Given upkeep swapping, you can drop 2x 5" speed increases. Toss in jacks like Nightmare and maybe Inflictor/Barathrum maybe even Erebus.

>>51742522
It's a miniatures game m8, pick what looks coolest for now since you'll be spending a bunch of time assembling and painting them. Worry about playstyle on the second faction you pick up.

>>51745429
He's shit, don't bother.

>>51744339
You could use those 8p to turn Tiberion into 2 Sentries.

>>51746002
Khador probably makes the best use of A+H outside of Mercs, but they're not mandatory. I don't like Hutchuck that much, but he's not bad.

>>51750675
I don't have two sentries, so that's not an option. :(

I'm thinking about getting a pair of void spirits or master tormentors.

>>51750975
Master Tormentors are excellent models since the errata.

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>>51745429
Here you go

>>51750686
No they don't. A+H need Valachev to work and at that point you're paying way too much (unless you're running Zerkova2)

>>51752616
Which is better than in any other faction except Mercs. Which I fucking said.

>>51752545
>Cygnar getting carapace on a model before the numerous factions struggling against gunlines

Bravo.

>>51752891
Carapace on a Cryx jack would have been cool. Maybe on the Crabjacks?

I don't think Carapace on Brickhouse changes anything, but then again that's probably your point.

Oh thank god.

Cygnar really struggled with gunlines before, so this model will surely help.

>>51743602
>>51744460
Yeah, I get the hook, but what's materially better about that in Circle than say, Cryx? I've played Reapers and Malice plenty of times, and even with mass debuffs available, living the dream is often not as dreamy as you, uh, dreamed.

>>51744883
>Gee I dunno why he's so good.
No, nor do I, that's why I asked. I agree he looks "good", just not the "OMG AMAZING" that everybody seems to be saying. How are you getting somebody at 16"? Isn't he SPD 6 with a RNG 8 gun? Also, "has a gun" is not usually what people mean by the term "non-linear threat".

>>51753682
POW 15 with thrown.

>>51744696
Don't listen to >>51745249 over here, he's spouting nonsense. People who make statements like "infantry is pointless" are 10/10 people who don't actually play the game.

Terminus hasn't changed much between editions, is the truth of it. He still lives or dies on a singular strategy (have a good feat turn and bully the table, assassinate if possible), so it has a lot to do with how well prepared your opponents are to deal with that. I'd expect him to actually have very good dark horse potential right now, with so many gunlines and lists focused on armor cracking over attack volume. Definitely worth a look, at least.

>>51746388
>There is no valid reason for Gladiators to cost 15 points. This means they went from 8 points in Mk2 to 15 in Mk3, which is pretty much the same cost. Except now they're DEF10 instead of DEF12.
Judging things directly by Mk2 costs isn't that helpful at this point, I don't think. Losing the DEF hurts, but the whole faction (and game) has changed around them. I mean, are they too expensive for what they do? Do you find yourself not taking gladiators in any lists?

>>51747188
Yeah, definitely agree in general. I think in most cases it would need to be beasts dropping a point or two. In the WMH factions I play, it feels like the internal balance with jacks is finally "right" for the first time in the game's history - they are good enough to compete with their weight in infantry.

The biggest losers seem to be the so-called "medium" warbeasts (formerly archie and the rhinodon, and still including things like Satyrs), and some of the "unfocused" elite heavies (like the Carnivean you mentioned). The former just aren't cheap enough to be interesting compared to the competition, and the later are paying for too many things they don't use.

>>51753781
They're far too expensive for their statline and animus. You can't afford to lose your Gladiator because he's the only source of beast pathfinder in faction and gives +2" movement. But seriously the DEF drop is just the biggest kick in the teeth. It's the exact same as Mk2 but with much worse DEF. That's all there is to it.

>>51753902
>You can't afford to lose your Gladiator because he's the only so boohoo I'm a little bitch
Then don't. Learn to fucking play you moron.

>>51747725
Boomhowler > Posse
Boomhowlers are definitely a better buy out of the box. Haven't crunched any numbers on it, but I think Posse might have the edge with Def Ward.

In the pro-boomy column, we've got:
- Boomies have twice as many bodies.
- Boomies have infinity times as many guns (awwww yeah!)
- Fell calls are obviously a Big Deal
- more melee attacks at max threat (same if gators can use tails)

In terms of raw stats, it (unsurprisingly) tilts toward gators:
- 10" melee threat (12" with prayer), vs. 9" for boomies
- DEF 16 / ARM 18 against shooting (Dirge+DW) vs. 14/17 for boomies
- DEF 14 / ARM 20 in melee (Unyielding+DW) vs. 14/17
- Higher P+S and the option for re-rolls on the melee attacks
- And of course, 5 boxes

So to me, it looks like "depends what you're dealing with". Things without access to boosting or very high quality attacks are going to struggle to even scratch the posse... 16/18 in particular is over the curve for a lot of shooting. Boomy's extra bodies and unconditional tough are going to give you an edge against anything that can readily one-shot the posse though (any given P+S 18 heavy, for instance). The better pick probably has a lot to do with what else is in your list, as well.

>>51752891
I'll be honest, I think the carapace is more for the Free Strike armor on him, rather than the shooting armor it is for most models. At ARM 23 (25) you can no sell almost any attack and go wherever you want without fear of getting crippled.

>>51753902
How are you losing your gladiator most of the time? Once the lines close and you're using him to trade, you usually don't actually NEED his animus anymore... you can afford to use him and lose him, if necessary. And if your opponents are consistently shooting the gladiator off the board in post-errata skorne, you may need to re-think your list.

I assume by "only source of beast pathfinder" you meant "only source that's not on a caster", right? Both Ghostly ad Incorporeal let you ignore terrain, if you're struggling with that. Plus I heard there's this cool new beast with Flight the kids are playing these days.

We get it, you're sad about the DEF drop. I'm sad I can't drop a Drakhun on your caster's head in the back of your deployment zone on the bottom of T1. "Sometimes you drink the bar, and sometimes he drinks you", as Old Reliable used to say. Time to move on.

>>51754242
>I'll be honest, I think the carapace is more for the Free Strike armor on him, rather than the shooting armor it is for most models. At ARM 23 (25) you can no sell almost any attack and go wherever you want without fear of getting crippled.
I figured Carapace was because he's sorta-a-centurion, but without the shield, which is tragic. Carapace covers that weakness to a point.

>>51752545
Thing with Brickhouse is he's a niche model. For general use as a slow tanky heavy, he's almost always outperformed by a centurion. But he has to be 18 points, because in that niche (lock multiple non-reach models out of the game indefinitely) he is ridiculously strong. Cygnar casters that can abuse that ability, for instance by making him faster, might find a place for him. It's not like you're ever sad you brought a MAT 8 heavy along, at the end of the day.

>>51753682
It's the same as with Eye of Truth for the Protectorate. Sure, he's good, but people are somehow losing their mind over it. It's just the new and shiny syndrome.
Loki is solid and he brings something new to the table for Circle, a new tool for the toolkit.

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>>51754037
I still feel Boomhowlers win out in that you need more attacks to take them out.
Once you have that quality attack that'll hit posse while dirged and Def. Warded that attack will one shot them more often than not. Plus, I never get to use Concealment it seems, everyone is Eyeless, True Sighted or whatnot.

The issue I have with posse isn't once they're in the thick of it. It's that once they're in the thick of it there's two of them left on 4 health between them.

>>51756556
Why not both? You can only bring one Boomhowler anyway

>>51752926
>Carapace on a Cryx jack would have been cool.

It would have been, which is probably exactly why we didn't get it. Cryx dominated Mk2, so we have to eat dirt through Mk3.

>>51756618
Fair point.
Currently I'm testing out Boomhowlers and Posse, with the posse being the second wave...until I get another unit of Brigands, then they'll take the place of the Posse.

I didn't mention it, but another thing you get with Boomhowlers is access to Reveille, which is amazing in Minions.

>>51753682
isnt circles gimmick how they set up engagements and dictate their trades? Loki just gives them a new tool for doing so..

>>51757232
Loki brings a sledgehammer to the concept of trades. Why trade when you can just get free kills?

>>51756556
>I still feel Boomhowlers win out in that you need more attacks to take them out.
So I took a minute to crunch some numbers and it looks like you're hunch is correct. The boomies are absolutely more resilient against shooting.

Concealment is conditional as you say, but let's give the gators the benefit of assuming they do get it:

RAT 6, POW 10 needs 18 attacks to kill a gator on average ((5 boxes / 16.6% to hit x 0.56 avg damage) + (1/3 / 16.6% x 27.8% for tough))

RAT 6, POW 10 needs 9.8 attacks to kill a boomhowler on average ((1 / 41.7% to hit x 41.7% to damage) x 1.5 for the first tough + (1 / (1 - (1/3 x 41.7%)) for subsequent toughs))

The math on once vs multiple tough is a little tricky, but I believe that's right. So Boomies should actually come out a bit ahead due to having more bodies. And it only gets worse as the quality of the attacks increases.

>>51757308
>Loki brings a sledgehammer to the concept of trades. Why trade when you can just get free kills?
Because the "trick" described above requires the activations of two very expensive heavies to kill a single piece, and there might be better ways to use those resources?

Or maybe because your opponent decided not to play along and give you an ideal drag target? Or he used one of the roughly 1,000,000 ways available to lower the DEF of a single model and killed Loki, making it not free at all?

I get it, Loki is a cool toy for a faction that traditionally has very little ranged presence and lives or dies by their melee threat ranges. But I don't see him setting the world on fire. I am interested in seeing how he performs with a couple specific casters though/ Especially Kaya2 - forced evo looks like it was made for this guy.

Yo, guys, what do you think of Zerkova 2 in Khador?
My brainstormed list I'm kicking around looks like this
Zerkova 2
-Sylys

-5 Juggernaut
or
-3 Juggernaut
-Behemoth

-Winter Guard Infantry, maxed
-Greylord Ternion
-Greylord Ternion
-Widowmaker Marksman
-Mechaniks, maxed

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>>51757317
Doing Kossk's work my son.

>>51753902
Keep the glad in the back as a late game piece, he hits like a truck and once you run outta harder hitters he can finish off what needs dead

>>51758183
Zerkova2 is seen as a one-trick pony and her trick is to assassinate with Greylord Outriders and Feat.

In fact, I can't find it right now because their search function is aids, but a guy on the forums did reasonably well with a list that looked something like this;

(Zerkova 2) Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24]
- Reaver Guard
Greylord Outriders (max) [20]
Greylord Outriders (min) [12]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]
Greylord Ternion [7]

Can't remember what else was in there though.

>>51759063
>Zerkova2 is seen as a one-trick pony and her trick is to assassinate with Greylord Outriders and Feat.
True enough, but to be fair her one trick is pretty damn good. She also has the backup plan where she just uses her feat to just wipe every single wound enemy model off the table in one shot (and potentially put a chunk of damage on multi-wound stuff).

The trick with Zerkova2 is to not build totally for Occult Whispers and the feat. It's strong, and you need to bring some stuff for it (Greylord Outriders should be considered mandatory), but if she runs into mass armor spam or a lot of spell immune stuff it can get neutered hard.

She does also bring some spell denial herself - her unit is immune and she's got banishing ward. She also has some jack support in the form of sacrificial lamb. So I think usually you want to bring enough magic stuff to make OW and the feat good, but then also pack enough other self-sufficient stuff that you can still play if the feat doesn't win you the game.

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>>51759063
>I can't find it right now because their search function is aids
Don't use the privateer press forums <full stop, ha> search functions. They were designed by maniacs or madmen, maybe both.

Fortunately, modern search engines exist. For instance, google.

>>51731651
>Kossites
>you have made a terrible, TERRIBLE mistake
Cmon now, there's no way Kossites are ALL CAPS TERRIBLE. Take some of those drama reduction pills the doc gave you

I get that khador players love ripping on them and have since at least the start of mk2, but like... it's a unit with pathfinder, prowl, ambush/adv deploy and a gun that's almost as cheap as mechanithralls. At 11 pts for 10 doods, WTH were you expecting? Stormlances?

>>51759063
>>51759296
You have failed to answer my question of 'what about my list that focuses on sacrificial lamb?'

Generating a focus advantage on efficient heavies seems like a straight forward plan to me. Though I'm really missing out on some way to move my jacks up the field faster/ignore terrain issues.

>>51761286
Jacks with native pathfinder or focused on range seem like they get along better with Zerkova than those without.

>>51761286
I think the answer is PROBABLY that building for sacrificial lamb is a mistake. I'd guess you can go anything up to maybe 4 jacks and take advantage of sac lamb... ranged jacks especially seems like it might work. But she does nothing else for them. No buffs for jacks' accuracy, damage or speed.

Who knows though. Give it a try, see how it feels.

>>51761348
Is there an option that can give them pathfinder? Or something?
Like a merc or some other unit that casts spells at them