alignment tiers

>>51698002
Nice template faggot!

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Lawful good with an edge is best.

I am absolutely sick of good-natured outcasts and rebels, everything else is meh.

>>51698002
>>51698112
I honestly prefers Neutral Good, what is wrong with this alignment?

TN often stands for "not gonna rp lol"

>>51698002
Awful template.
OK : Lawful Good, Neutral Good.
Cautious : Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good. (tend to be edgelords)
Fags : Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil. (Edgelords and tend to be incomptatible with a "normal" party)

>>51698188
nothing at all famalam, it's just usually the choice of people who don't want to role play at all and just turn up to get some social interaction into their diet.

true neutral is the choice of people who want freedom to develop their character while chaotic neutral is the choice of a person who wants to fuck around like a trickster and have fun exploring the limitations of the DM's world.

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>>51698002
alignments are shit desu

>>51698322
To be honest I tend to like Neutral Good because I see it as the "reasonable" good alignment.
Valuing order and freedom as much as being good is weird to me and most truly lawful good and chaotic good characters tend to franckly be not good at all for my morality, but I guess it's just my opinion about what is good and evil.

>>51698355
>>51698368
this desu
do away with alignments and add some actual depth to your characters

I'm fine with all alignments but LG and CE

LG's are egoistic, narrow-minded cunts with their heads far up their asses

CE are That Guys with the brain of an angsty teen who are out to act as moronic as possible

If you have any of those in your party, you can guarantee party tension that would escalate into real life.

>>51698305
lawful evil isn't edgy.
you missunderstand evil. theres no good and evil and no lawful and chaotic.

it's boils down to, lawful - chaotic
do you play by society's rules or your own moral code.

you get how loose that is, a lawful character can be a far traveller and can follow a moral code completely different to the place he's in but because it is a societal code and not his own invented code it's lawful.

a chaotic character can be more bound by honor than a lawful character but it would be by his own self inflicted code which doesn't mesh with societies views, see chaotic good druids.

good and evil isn't holy saint and evil boogy man
it's are you deep down a good person.
it's not jesus and hiter. it's I'd say lawful evil is like blackadder, he's a piece of shit but he can fit into a party. while neutral evil is bobba fett. he is sociopathic and will do anything for his wallet but he's stable and you can see him doing good.

the only one that stands out is chaotic evil that is pretty much crawling in my skin tier.

every other alignment can fit into any party.

>>51698428
Oh look, this post again.

So my argument is that the Alignment Chart is a good thing, but it's improperly used. The system should be used as a rough measurement of character mentality, not a decision you make at character creation.

It's supposed to be used like a thermometer to test the temperature of a cup of water, not the other way around with you hearing or cooling the cup until it reads the temperature you want.

Good > Lawful > Neutral > Chaotic > Evil

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>>51698439
LG is funny though.
CE isn't funny.

I had a LG character and he would always insist on cleaning up the streets of any encounter, refusing to leave wrong doer unpunsished. my party would just abandon him mid fight and he would run with us after figuring out he's done for. sometimes he would do things like challange people to duels, it was fun to watch. he was heavy into RP and it made it fun.

CE is trash. the guy would do dumb shit like stab a hostage we spent time saving. he came later into our already existing campaign and set his own stats rather than rolling for them and he had 18 dexterity so he was hard to deal with. we didn't even kick him out, we just pretended we didn't do it anymore and continued like his character never happened.

>>51698774
maybe for an evil campaign, but if you mean in general, shit taste

>>51698002
Alignments suck, but Lawful Good, True Neutral and Chaotic Evil are the best ones.

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>>51698002
any alignment outside of True Neutral is too limiting to actions.

>>51699364
What do you mean? You are literally bound to upholding the balance of everything, if you want as few barriers as possible go CN. Your character can be as on a whim as you want.
>>51698439
Agree with LG but
>>51698583
CE is more than likely played by idiots that don't know what CE is about:serving yourself first and foremost and fucking over anyone that might even possibly hinder that. That or someone who strictly believes in rule by the strongest and regularly tries to be the strongest. I like the former better though.
LG is clipboard warrior tier

>>51699364
Are you a druid?

>>51698539
>the Alignment Chart is a good thing, but it's improperly used. The system should be used as a rough measurement of character mentality, not a decision you make at character creation.

You could say the same thing about dnd alignments in general. It might have been something nice, but that just isn't the way that it influences real games.

People are quite capable of making ethical judgements on their own. We don't need game manuals to tell us right from wrong.

>>51699652
>Neutral means upholding some kind of balance and chaotic is lolrandom.
Dude, almost no characters is trying to upholds a balance, maybe druids and true neutral planars but not most true neutral.
Most true neutral characters are like...indifferent to order, chaos, and evil.
Most Neutral Good characters don't uphold a balance between chaos and order, they are just good without caring much about conformity and freedom or opportunistic.
So for example a True Neutral character can be only interrested by his own life or some personal task without being destructively selfish.
And being Chaotic Neutral basically means you are for freedom for the sake of freedom without caring about being good or evil.

>>51699652
no, Chaotic Neutral has to be against 'the man' they are counter culture, rebels without a cause. True Neutral does whatever the fuck they want regardless of the morality or the law. if I want to follow a fascist leader, for however long, I can do so as a true neutral, but if I were Chaotic Neutral I should be against such a thing with every fibre of my being, because I believe that Freedom is the most important thing, for myself or others. Chaotic evil if for themselves and chaotic good is for others.

>>51699711
I roll druids from time to time, but I tend towards stealthy characters more, right now I have a Catfolk Ninja (I had the class handed to me, and went with a good race combo that was medium sized) who at first level had a Stealth skill of 11.

>>51699652
>CE isn't that bad
>goes on to explain NE tp us
>and that's why CE isn't bad

9 point a shit.
Lawful, Neutral, Chaotic.
And they aren't personality types, they're indicative of the characters place in a cosmic struggle and don't effect things outside of certain magic effects and monster reactions.

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>>51699886
you have zero understanding of alignment. true natural and chaotic natural aren't worlds apart. true natural is an average joe, lawful natural is an average law abiding citizen or a towns guard and chaotic natural is a wanderer.

whats worst is you don't even understand how good and bad work.

>orcs are chaotic evil.
>orcs often are ruled under autocracy.
>chaotic can't deal with tyrants.

wait a second that doesn't work, maybe you're an idiot.

chaotic isn't your moral code but your attitude towards morality. not in an evil way but in a imposing way. a chaotic person doesn't imposes his morals on others and pretty much create their own moral code, lawful usually will impose their morals onto others and take their moral code from a country or a church.

>>51699993
yeah desu this is the best system but try telling that to a party when you're trying to DM. they flip out if they can't display how autistic they are by going chaotic good or chaotic evil.

>>51699922
>didn't say a single thing about NE
Okay buddy
>>51699869
>>51699886
The definitions of those two were just the ones I remember reading about, I'll be glad to cite when I get home if need be but that's how I always seen the alignments

>>51698002
Nothing wrong with Chaotic Good if you have a reason to use it outside of lolsorandombutgood.

>>51700518
This.

A lot of people read chaotic as a kind of joker-esque absolute madmen who just want to be special snowflakes, and the centre of attention. A true lawful good is much like a neutral good except they outright refuse to act any way but independently, doing what they think is good outside of the law and usual boundaries and conventions.

Chaotic neutrals on the other hand are much harder to do right, because nobody quite understands what comes along with being chaotic neutral. Chaotic neutral is baby tier, because they are the most selfish people alive. They will act entirely for their own amusement all of the time with little thought to the consequences and this is what most people regard as the LOL so randumb xDDD players. In my opinion CN should only be used for lunatics, children and people with more feral, animalistic tendencies.

Chaotic evil done right is really, really fucking hard. So much to the point where its almost impossible. They're just edgy and terrible.

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LG and NG:
Good people, won't stir up pointless shit. Fun figuring out how to approach situations to have the best moral outcome.

CG:
"This will work out in the end, honest!"
"He deserved it anyway, honest!"
Something something outcast

LN:
Too prone to autism. Can be done really well though.

N:
Lacking conviction type: Can be a good starting point for a character, who can develop later on.
Balance type: Complete cancer.

LE:
Wildcard. Excellent at best, evil-lite at worst (yet usually ends up less evil that chaotic neutral.)

CN, NE, CE:
Completely interchangeable, boiling down to 'fuck you, I do what I want.' Block these bastards unless you're sure the player knows what he's doing.

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>>51698355
>>51698368

>>51701053
chaotic means evil meme.
just hang yourself.
apparently playing a fighter who likes to drink and whore around when not fighting for the sake of it is edgy and doesn't fit in with a game mostly about battles and roleplaying intresting characters.

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>>51698002
>alignments

>>51698450
Chaotic Evil isn't even crawling in my skin
CE is just being a complete asshole for the sake of it.

>>51700090
>True Neutral is the average Joe
Not necessarily. Really high tier beings tend to be True Neutral because they cannot be assed to give a singular shit.

>>51698583
why the fuck would you even let a player choose CE? that sounds like a surefire way to slow down the party unless you're doing some sort of "the bad guys are the protags" campaign. the most evil alignment in my party is CN, and even that I only let them do because i trusted them not to be a dick about it

>>51702268
If when doing an evil campaign CE still wouldn't work. CE would kill somebody before working with them. The only exception is when you are all CE of the same CE race like orcs

>>51702268
>the most evil alignment in my party is CN
Chaotic is not Evil.

>>51698583
>Not playing it humorously
>Okay, what do you do with your gold
>I get bitches and whores
>I get alcohol
>I invest in pension plans, then pull the funding and see them crash and burn into an empty pit

>>51704471
That's Lawful Evil though.

>>51704523
>Chaotic Evil can only be a dick through murder-stab-rape-jaywalking

When will these meme end

I still dislike Chaotic Evils but cut them some slack. High Int / Wis Chaotic Evils do exist.

>>51704559
No but I mean that literally is Lawful Evil since you're doing your damage through an organized 3rd party structure according to its rules.

>>51700109
>didn't say a single thing about NE
You literally described NE.

>>51698002

If you're lawful neutral, why don't you go all the way and commit to lawful good? You're halfway there anyway, and being neutral doesn't give any special perks and means angelic beings will be hostile on sight.

>>51700090
Orcs are Lawful Neutral.

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>>51701698
>just hang yourself.
Exactly what I'd expect a Chaotic player to say.

>>51698002
>best alignment: any when played properly
You're all fags.

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>>51705020
>>best alignment: any when played properly
This

>Roleplays character, occasionally using alignment as characterization shorthand: OK Taste

>Roleplays character within Alignment System: Caution

>Roleplays an Alignment: FAG

>>51698002
>LG = fun police faggot
>CE=edge lord fuck wad
>anything else A-ok

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>>51698774
This troll nigger right here?

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Lots of Lawfags in this thread, I see.

>>51704575
LE, out of all the evils, has to have something they gain physically by doing evil. They can take pleasure in their work but imo if that's all they get out of it then they should be NE. CE using the very same methods that everyone trusts and loves to destroy not only it but the people who trusted it is deliciously ironic and definitely not lawful. The LE would embezzle the fuck outta it though.

>>51698002
> Chaotic Neutral
> OK
Seriously, CN is the stereotypical lolrandumb "I roll to eat the king!" alignment. It should be in the yellow at minimum. By comparison, CG is mostly ok, but seemingly rarely played (most good characters tend to be LG or NG from my experience).

Really, though, any alignment can be done well or badly. I'd watch out for non-lawful evils since having that kind of character function in a party is very difficult (even LE in a non-evil party is questionable, but at least such character is more likely to stick to agreed rules and not randomly backstab the party), and CN due to lots of people playing it as lolrandumb or "GM didn't let me play CE so I'll just claim to be neutral".

>>51705020
Real talk: has alignment ever influenced your game in any way? We've all heard the horror stories of nominally LG characters being played as murderhobos because the players are too clueless to realize that they're doing it wrong, and therein lies the rub.

If alignment doesn't affect how the character is actually played then it's pointless and just a dead letter combination on the sheet.

If alignment is used as a tool to enforce player behavior (the GM says 'your character is NG he wouldn't do that!') then it's too restrictive and takes away player choice.

If alignment is just a general guideline how a character should behave (the GM asks 'are you sure a Good character would do that?') then it's too simplistic, not every CG is a robin hood or a freedom fighter etc.

Bottom line is that alignment is a legacy mechanic that just doesn't bring much anything to the table, and in practice it has no effect on how the game is actually played.

>>51698774
EVIL GET SHIT DONE!

>>51698418
Neutral good are like most elves in lotr.
Not helping at all.

>thinking of playing someone who just unashamedly loves killing
>to the point where he makes it a business to make profit
>hitman, executioner, hunter, you name it, he'll do it for the coin
>despite this he's still level headed and safe to be around (if you aren't on his list)
>joined the party to kill what's in its way, like a murderous bodyguard
>is otherwise a bro in off time, calm, tolerant and just sociable enough that he'll crack a joke once in a while

What alignment would he be? Would that be an evil character that works?

>>51701698
>drink and whore around when not fighting for the sake of it
If you think this is what "chaotic" means then congratulations, you're just as retarded as everyone else who uses alignments.

apathetic TN > the rest > shit > muh balance TN

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I'm not editing out the fucked up colors
NG > CG > TN > CN > LG > All of the evils, they are all equally terrible > LN

>>51708193
Maybe he has something of a split psyche. He's mostly good but he has one pleasure that he shrugs off all of his usual empathy for.

So depending on how you look at it he's a corrupted good guy who's been seduced by a certain fixation that turns out to be very, very evil, but he is blinded by the high it gives him so he doesn't recognize it, or he's an evil guy that passes himself off as good by being polite to people but really he's disguising his true self.

It depends on what his true self really even -is-. Is the nice guy him the "real" him, or is the killer? Or are they both the real him (in which case he's more of a conflicted neutral who is full of contradictions, but still probably types out as evil because saying please and thank you doesn't really balance out being a murderer)?

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>>51698002

>>51698002

Every alignment can be done well or terribly, except CN which were D&D's fish malk years before fish malk's were a thing.

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>>51698002
All "good" alignments, LN, and TN are good to me. I actually really like CN when people play it properly and not CE-lite but anyone wanting to play CN or LE is a yellow flag to me; it could work out just fine but if I didn't know the player I'd watch them a bit closely. NE and CE are right out, unless it's an evil campaign of course, anything goes in one of those.

>>51698112
>playing CG as a rebel and not a benevolently insane cloudcuckoolander
>believing that robin hood is the only possible manifestation of CG

>>51699364
>limiting
Anon, no. Actions dictate alignment, not the other way around. Being Lawful Good doesn't mean you have to act completely lawful or good all the time (unless you're a Paladin), and the same goes for being evil or chaotic or whatever combination.

I mean, if your actions always lead to you being true neutral that's fine, but you have a serious misunderstanding about what the alignment system is as conventionally used.

>>51698188
OP is a faggot.
>Hurr I'm evil is better than Robin Hood
>LOLsorandom is better than neutral good
Pretty much IMO you can make a simple pattern.
Lawful good, lawful neutral, and neutral good are always acceptable. Classic heroes that are hard to fuck up. Lawful evil, true neutral, and chaotic good are risky as they could end up running counter to the part or in the case of true neutral justify doing anything. Chaotic neutral, neutral evil, and chaotic evil are shitty lolsorandom or lolsoevil characters that are invariably shit. I would try to avoid them unless the person roleplaying them is someone I trust or it fits the campaign (a bunch of actual murderhobos).

>>51708586
First of all, great post with a lot of dilemmas to make a good character

I suppose I can sort of put it like this. He's unapologetic about his beliefs. He'd straight up tell the party he's in if for the slaughter and to kill anything that stands in the party's way (women, children and animals not excluded. He'd totally murder those Orc babies when that village is burnt). But he's not a complete idiot about it, and doesn't go around all the towns wanting to paint them red. He'll just not care if it comes to that.

Giant rats in a hole? Dead. Guardsmen trying to catch the party? Dead. Necromancer stirring up shit? Dead. If it walks in the party's way, he'll murder it, ask questions later unless they tell him specifically not to, which he'd not ignore and sit back very calmly and watch until he's needed

And yes, I would just imagine him as this bulky fighter who's built like a brick shithouse, carrying a big bloodstained axe and, despite the fact he always walks around with a calm look and little anger, you know he wouldn't hesitate to swing that axe into the skull of someone who picks a fight with him

>>51709543
This guy gets it
CE is often plagued by some malady or another that would make them pitiable if that malady didn't make them bleed insanity out their ears and rape and kill everything in sight. LG has their heart in the right place but their control freak nature is oppressive, and therefore evil, by design.

LE characters just happen to wind up in positions of power and get so caught up in it that they can't help but be smug and masturbatory (but also fearful of losing that power). LNs are almost always their henchmen because LG doesn't seek to manipulate the LNs, who are easy to control by nature, but LEs do and are damn good at it.

CN wants to make the world a better place, they know SOMETHING has to change, but they either don't know what or they're too busy drowning their discontent in distraction to do anything about it.

I only disagree with TN because of their multifaceted nature. They can range from the dumbest of animals to the true masters of the universe who take everything in without bias.

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And the best alignment chart of all.

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Top Tier: Chaos
Middle Tier: Neutral
Bad Tier: Law
Shit Tier: Alignment systems with a second axis.

>>51709613
Noble-grim isn't about the mood of the people, its about their ability to affect the world around them.

>>51709651
And, obviously, CG is the best type because they represent unconditional, rather than conditional, goodness. They're the kinds of people who, when at their zenith, can step into a fucked up system and, instead of trying to do battle with it like a value-plagued LG, will change it for the better just through innocent, innocuous, and often unintentional expression. Like the kind of guy who does something unusual like baking cupcakes for everyone at the office and brightens everyone's day. They have the power to dismantle any form of evil because they not only have their hearts in the right place, but they also have unlimited potential.

>>51706623
Chaotic Neutral doesn't mean lolrandumb, it means you're a freedom fighter who's willing to use questionable means to accomplish it, and may be willing to let innocents get hurt to reach your goal. It's the same level of moral ambiguity as LN, where you hold laws and codes highly and will enforce them even if they aren't necessarily just.

CE players using CN to try to get past good GMs is definitely a problem, though, which is why I'm cautious about CN players. Anyone playing CN right and not doing it as CE by another name is fine with me, though.

>>51709661
>suffering is evil
>all suffering that exists only exists because those who are subjected to it can't change it
>the ability to change is the definition of chaos
>suffering can only exist because of law
>therefore suffering is a derivative of law
>law is suffering
>law is evil

Lawfags will be like, "b-but muh incomprehensible maelstrom". No, dude, in a true chaotic system, if something is too fucked up for you to handle you can just go do something else because there's no law telling you that you can't.

>>51709712
Also LG often falls prey to the notion that "doing evil things to evil creatures is okay". When they see a bunch of evil people doing evil things, they say, "no, stop doing that, or I'll hurt you", which is L I T E R A L L Y the entire foundation of the Blood Wars, which is only participated in by the most evil fucking beings in the multiverse. Whereas a CG will pop in from their wondrous and silly portal, say "hey you guys, you know you can stop doing this if you really want to, but I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm also not going to take your shit or get invested in this, though, so I'm going to fuck off to my whimsical wonderland and bring as many people who want to come with me with me".

Man I really don't like L-types.

>>51709819
>suffering is evil
>all suffering that exists only exists because a thing is out of order
>the ability to put things in order is the definition of law
>suffering can only exist because something is changed from its correct state
>therefore suffering is a derivative of chaos
>chaos is suffering
>chaos is evil
See, I can make up axioms too, chaosfag.

>>51710128
The ability to put things in order is not the definition of law, because putting things in order (changing them from one order to another) is actually an act of chaos. Rather, the immutable nature of what an order already is or the immutable nature of how an order changes is the definition of law. When things change into different states and those state changes follow an immutable law, that is the only time when suffering is possible, because otherwise it can be instantly negated on a whim.

Of course, law is actually just an aspect of chaos, it's chaos playing make-believe in a sense, so chaos is the origin of evil and suffering, but law is how it manifests.

>>51710260
And, furthermore, most laws only compensate for the inadequacies of other laws. There's a law against shooting me and inflicting immeasurable torment on me for starting a shitty internet argument with you, ONLY BECAUSE there is are physical laws that state if you shot me it would be painful and there's nothing I can do about it.

It's like constantly applying bandaids to a system and then bandaids to those bandaids when the real problem is that a system even exists in the first place.

>>51708178
>Neutral good are like most heroes in fiction.
FTFY. A large majority of classic fictional protagonists who'd fall on the "good" row of alignment are going to end up as NG more than LG, especially since there's always some sort of character arc or side story where they have to go against "the law" in order to uphold their own beliefs or protect those most dearest to them.

I'd be far more wary of LG characters than LN characters, especially since the former are part of the reason why "lawful stupid" is a thing.

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>>51698002
>Alignments from best to worst

1) Neutral Good. "Everyone wants to live a happy, fulfilled life. A little kindness and respect goes a long way. Do what's right because it's the right thing to do, not for any other reason."

2) Lawful Good. "Good people write just laws, and just laws protect the people. I respect both those laws and the people of the realm, and act with good intentions and a sense of duty towards them."

3) Chaotic Good. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to liberty everywhere. People should have the freedom to choose their own path in life, and I'll support that freedom any way I can, even if people disagree with me or oppose me."

4) Lawful Neutral. "Liberty is founded upon the twin principles of property ownership and a fair judicial system. Good and evil are subjective; truth is absolute. Let the cooler heads of judges and juries prevail."

5) True Neutral. "Good, evil, ideas like those are products, and evangelists are the pushers. Take every high-minded philosopher with a grain of salt, and think twice before you adopt any position."

6) Lawful Evil. "There's only two kinds of people - those with the ambition to seek power and authority, and those that want to be dominated. I prefer to command my own destiny, thank you very much."

7) Neutral Evil. "I only care about myself, but at least I admit it. You can lie through your teeth but you're not fooling me."

8) Chaotic Neutral. "Man, I just want to do what I want, when I want. So long as I'm not hurting anybody, what's the harm in that?"

9) Chaotic Evil. "Everyone's a predator, feeding on the weak to survive, and anyone who tells you otherwise is sizing you up as their next meal. Life is a game, your life is the stake, and I'll do whatever it takes to keep playing."

>>51703050
Well yah, that's why he said most, the party is probably mostly good characters.

>>51710382
And, to further elaborate on the origin of the evils of law from primordial chaos, I have a little analogy. I'm a little drunk rn (as is fitting for a CN player character), and I must ramble, so excuse me.

Say you have two kids playing in an imaginary laser sword fight, Adonis and Beevis. This is the Primordial Law, or perhaps the Egg/Sperm of Evil. Their situation is defined (chaos limiting chaos, aka law), but they still have unlimited potential with regards to how they react to the situation. They're fighting, and Adonis strikes Beevis down with his imaginary sword in the imaginary arena. Beevis, who has always been quick-witted, invokes the power of "but I'm wearing invulnerable to everything armor", and Adonis's attack is deflected. This is the Primary Law, or The Seed of Evil. The Primary Law is a law that is up to individual discretion to enforce, it does not define the arena, but rather the wishes of those who exist in the arena to exist pleasantly. It is the completed Seed because it is the meeting of Primordial Chaos with the conditional Egg/Sperm Evil that is the defined scenario, it is Chaos attempting to apply Law to the Law.

Adonis says, "no fair! you can't do that! next time we play invulnerable to everything armor is banned", so they both fuck off and go back to their homes, mildly pissed at each other. This is the Root of Evil, the Secondary Law, discontent that results from one attempting to invoke Chaos in an imaginary world that is defined as Law for the sake of preserving the protection and perfection that comes with absolute Chaos.

(cont.)

>>51710260
Are you seriously implying a sorting function is Chaotic and not Lawful? Deterministic functions are pretty much the definition of law, moving specifically from one state to another.
In fact, your whole second point fails, because the fact that a state changes from better to worse is considered suffering falls under your definition of chaos, not mine. Besides, 'instantly negating' involves forcing a new order onto a state, or restoring a past order. Even if you don't consider that Lawful, being immutable prevents a system from entering a worse state.
I'd go so far as to say Chaos is an aspect of Law, if you really want to go from the position that Chaos is the change of states, because it demands one state must charge to another, enforcing a new state onto the old one.
>>51710382
I'll answer this by suggesting that the fact that there is a preferable state indicates a natural ordering or law of states from preferable to not. If there were no system in the first place, the question becomes utterly meaningless. In other words, there would be no conversation if there were no laws, because laws provide the basis for ordering preferable to not in the first place. Pure chaos by definition cannot be preferable (or even worse) to Law because there's no basis to compare the two by.
Your previous statement that you can just change the situation if you don't like it doesn't make sense, because there's no state to change to or method for you to charge with.
I get the feeling that we're looking at this from completely different viewpoints and definitions.

>>51710921
So, the next day, Adonis and Beevis have another sword fight. And yet again, Adonis strikes Beevis down, and yet again, Beevis invokes the power of invulnerable to everything armor. Adonis, however, fueled by his anger, says to Beevis "Nay! Your power is worthless, as I decreed earlier, and I strike you down as though your invulnerable to everything armor only exists in the abyss from which it originates, and not on your body!". Beevis, dismayed by the emotion that Adonis displays, and by the virtue of Chaotic Law, allows the whims of Absolute Chaos to falter, and he concedes. He is struck down, his invulnerability is stripped from him. This is the Tertiary Law, or Evil Made Manifest. This is when Chaos is truly broken by the Chaotic whims of a Law gone unobserved.

And now, when Adonis and Beevis play, Adonis always strikes Beevis down, without fail, for Beevis no longer has the will to invoke his invulnerability to everything armor. This is Causality, Law As We Know It, Every Interaction Being Predictable, or Evil as a Ruler. Their imaginary game is now a routine of predictable slaughter. Adonis and Beevis become particles, repeating players in a cosmos that is meant to be manipulated by scientists for specific aims and reasons, doomed to play out the same scenarios over and over again for an eternity until rescued by the grace of Primordial Chaos. Beevis suffers, Adonis reaps the rewards. Those who side with Adonis benefit from their brutality, and those who side with Beevis find only pain within their resignation.

I want to play a CN summoner who uses his CE demon eidolon like a disposable shock trooper. I see him as the kind of guy who would ask the mayor who begs the party for help to also cover medical expenses on top of the the reward offered.

Remember, don't do anything shady unless the party is okay with it. You are beholden to your fellow players, not the laws of the land.

>>51698539
It's a fucking stat you mongoloid, like your fucking hitpoints.

>>51710690
Honestly this. Upper levels are more flexible but in general good>neural>evil and neutral>lawful>chaotic. Lawful is too restricting to where it can lead to autistic "we can't kill the evil king, he is the legal ruler and his rule is law" while chaotic leads to the chance of lolsorandom bullshit. Also unless you are playing an evil campaign your characters should be good, not rapists and murderers.

I suppose swap good and evil if you are playing an evil campaign but otherwise this post is the best list.

Nobody in my group ever plays as a "good" character unless we are forced by the GM.

>>51711204
That is not how lawful works. Lawful people respect legitimate authority, self control, and the good of community, not the law as written.

>>51711209
You sound like a 3aboo, or possibly PF player, they're the same thing so I can't tell.

"We are in it for the loot and cleavage, not for dialectic discussions."

>>51710921
>>51710942
You forgot to mention that if there were no Laws, Adonis and Beevis would never have lived for there is nothing to say that there is structure in their forms, nor a spark of life. For without Law there is no pain, but without Law it isn't possible to feel Pleasure. In addition, if we were to say that good and evil, and pleasure and pain were to exist separate from Law, who is to say that everything would not cause Pain and therefore be Evil?

>>51705218
The Chaotic Evil and Neutral Evil quotes sound like they should be swapped.

People talk too much about moral and immoral, right and wrong, good and evil. I do what I do, I k-k-kill. It is simply my nature, my raison d'etre.

I'm a bit confused by Chaotic Good. They fight against tyranny and bureaucracy and stuff, but what do they stand for? What happens when the Chaotic Good character end up in charge?

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>Han and Luke killed these two unarmed guys in cold blood.

You know it's true.

>>51711381
No I didn't. Their situation itself was defined as the first half of evil, and the spark of life, rather than the life itself made manifest, was chaos. The law that manifested that spark is actually just chaos limiting itself, because it can.

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I can't believe how many "versions" and "alternate explanations" to the AD&D alignment system exist at this point. I don't get why it's still discussed after almost 40 years. I don't get why people can move on to another system or just keep their system to themselves.

>>51711123
Stop playing 3.5 then.

>>51711693
Because fuck you and sharing ideas that you can derive from a given set of concepts is cool

>>51711693
Because the other guy is WRONG. Don't you get that? They're having fun wrong and it's up to me to tell them exactly why my system is better. It's my system, so it's gotta be the best, right?

>>51701053
This is the only correct response

>>51711718
It's not "make the same thread every day for years upon years" cool.

>>51711751
Not to you, but maybe to others.
XN (probably LN) detected.

>>51711760
But it's bordering on madness at this point. That or everyone here is trying to bait everyone else.

>>51711783
See: >>51711722

Welcome to /tg/

>>51711783
>b-but I have a problem with madness and tendencies I don't agree with are insane!
Yeah, totally LN

>>51705218
>No joker

dropped.

>>51711554
>Expecting anything less from Han "Shot First" Solo

>>51711973
Joker is the absolute worst kind of CE archetype to have on your team. He kills his henchmen and allies all the time, for fun.

>>51712003
However, he's also one of the best CE characters of all time. Depends on who's writing him at the time.

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>>51712003
>He kills his henchmen and allies all the time, for fun.
No. He's the Joker. He only kills people when it's funny. It's not funny every time.

>>51712255
>Kid begins to reply
>Joker kills him
>Appropriate timing
>Joker laughs

That's not what actually happens but the joker is such a badly written character most of the time that it would fit. He sadly IS a good candidate for CE and I really wish he wasn't.

>>51711554

Nah, they got their arms ripped off by Chewie and suffered an agonising death.