Warhammer 40k General - /40kg/

>>51676195

First for Ynnari, suck it other Eldar factions.

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>>51676195
ORKS ARE DA BEST!

>>51676223
>I5
>>51676225
>I2

Are Hunter-Killer Missiles ever worth it?

10 points for a potentially missing once-use-only nerfed melta-strength rocket seems kind of bad, especially since it can't even shoot at full ballistic skill at fliers, which would be the main thing I'd argue spending 10 points on to possible help take care of them.

>Take army of nobs and warbosses
>Play 5th ed with old furious charge

>Beat the I2 meme

HAHA, ORKZ WIN AGEN.

>>51676250
>Still playing in 5th

Wow, that I2 really slowed you down.

GS2 scans when?

>>51676246
>Are Hunter-Killer Missiles ever worth it?

They have some niche use on outflanking Scout Sentinels. Three with Autocannons and HK missiles can ruin a tank's side/rear armour. But that's about it, really. Infinite range doesn't really mean much in a game where it's rare for units to be more than 36" away from one another.

Giving them built-in Skyfire would be cool, or allow them to ignore Line of Sight. Or cut them to 5 points.

>>51676246
they might be worth it against certiain units, or for a easy way to knock off a hull point, kill a space marine, idk.

they can kill a 80 point buffed up crisis suit with no armor saves and instant death so that sounds like a good way to spend 10 points, which would otherwise get you a whole 3 conscripts which would have even less bearing on a game.

>>51676281
I would like them to be 5 points on Sentinels only, to give them intensive to take them.

>>51675752
>There's just nothing there that entices me and the idea that they would ally with the Imperium and Eldar is ludicrous.

There are other ways to do allies that isn't actually "allies". Like I thought about making an admech+nid army for fun, with it being a mildly successful version of how the big bad scientists in Alien and Resident Evil or literally anything always try to harness creatures as biological weapons. Probably not a good army though, just fun. Also cyborg nids, fluff them skipping turns as their parts not functioning properly.

Could do corrupted nids with chaos, Deldar beastmaster with nids, Necron's "technology can do anything" could let them bullshit into having nids. Imperial guard could work, if you remember genestealer cult exists. SoB would be really hard to justify, Marines maybe impossible. Don't know what bullshit Tau and Eldar have.

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Reminder that Eldar are balanced because they die to things other races die to.

>>51676281
cutting their cost might help, i never got how a seeker missile for tau is 8 points and a hunter killer 10, when a seeker missile can use a markerlight and suddenly ignore cover, have homing, and resolve at bs5

>>51676246
They count as a weapon for weapon destroyed results right?

So that's something at least, for vehicles with few but valuable weapons like the Exorcist. Though they can take a storm bolter too for half the points.

>>51676314
>we die to bolters
Too bad only one race uses fucking bolters on every fucking unit.

>>51676335
you mean the race 99% of people play?

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Y-yes?

I really want to field my Land Raider and don't even have Rhinos yet, so would I maybe be able to pull this shit off?

My main fear are ironically the local Tyranid guy with his Flyrant and Harpy and the local Ork guy with his Gorkanaut and Walker/Bike spam. Would LOVE to stick a Combi-Melta on the LRC but don't know what to cut apart from maybe one of the Neophytes.

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>>51676314
I don't really give a shit if someone plays an overpowered army but I get upset when they won't admit that they're WAAC shitters.

>>51676326
the seeker missile cant be destroyed if its already fired, so it seems an odd use of points to *maybe* once in a dozen games save a weapon destroy result. better of firing it at a MEQ and making its points back probably.

>>51676357
OP army doesn't immediately mean WAACer, Anon.

What they put on the table from that army does.

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Lucius is genociding Imperial worlds in orgy of bloodshed and noise. There is something serpentine and huge that's alongside him in this slaughter.

Any idea who or what that mysterious Serpentine being is?

Why are people surprised that bike builds are the dominant meta? Of course mobility is going to be invaluable in a game about shooting guns.

Rolled 1, 5 = 6 (2d6)

Rolling on chaos boon table

>>51676393
bad luck m8

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>>51676388
It's my dick, anon.

>>51676390
It isn't the mobility its the increased toughness and moveable on-demand cover save that makes bikes great.

And in addition they all come with twin-linked.

>>51676390
>Why are people surprised that bike builds are the dominant meta?
Who is surprised?

Completely clueless people?

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>>51676388
Anon, come on. It's Fulgrim.

>>51676407
jink was a mistake.

>>51676401
I knew i shouldnt have challenged that Tau fire warrior team leader

>>51676388
Fulgrim obviously.

>>51676402
is this a jojo reference

>>51676368
I actually had two exorcists have a HK get destroyed in my last three games, which had 3, 2, and 2 in them. But, it was only because I forgot they were there. I bought them because I couldn't really think of what else to put on them, and later forgot to swap them out.

Basically a 1 in 12 chance every pen will hit the missile, for ten points. But you can fire the missile too, I guess. Think of it like a combi weapon you can fire at the same time as everything else with infinite range, same price too.

>>51676419
dont worry one day youll get that sweet double six roll and turn into a beautiful daemon prince.

>>51676429
Pretty sure it's just a still of a very sweaty guy from some basketball anime that I saved 2 years ago on /a/.

>>51676402
Man in hate that animation caveat, if you want to make eye contact obvious, do it properly, don't just make shit transparent.

>>51676432
then by all means keep buying those HK missiles of godly dice rolls to save those main guns. weapon destroyed is by far one of the least common penetration outcomes ive encountered idk why.

>>51676418
B-but its the only thing that makes orks somewhat usable

>>51676471
Remove jink.

Buff Boyz, Nobs, Bosses, non-Walker vehicles and change the mob rule.

There, now fine with it?

>>51676471
remove jink.

give orks a new codex.

there.

they cant nerf us again right?

>>51676483
I was always fine with removing jink thats just the only argument i hear people say when ever i bring it up.

what is the consensus on the farsight enclave supplement? having an army of drones and suits sounds interesting especially seeing as a team of 2 or 3 crisis suits can easily outperform a fully upgraded fire warrior team while costing the same amount pretty much.

the buffmander might be missed but farsight himself looks good.

>>51676496
>>51676483
Depends how it's done.

>>51676499
Gee thanks, just make Dark Eldar even more unplayable than they are right now, why don't you.

And no, going Ynnari wouldn't help if Jink was removed.

>>51676536
what if jetbikes, skimmers get 4+ jink.

and everyone else 5+?

>>51676393
Dude what, boon table is 11d6

>>51676496
You an always give orks some new good rules and week after realise new FaQ that will rape them.

>>51676414
>>51676426
Nonsense Fulgrim never leaves his daemon world.

Rolled 3, 3, 6, 4, 2, 6, 2, 4, 2, 6, 4 = 42 (11d6)

>>51676556
See how I gain the favour of the gods

>>51676536
Jink as it stands is a retarded mechanic and arguing that removing it would take away army X's only viable unit has nothing to do with jink but is a design problem on a whole different level. Nerfing one kind of unit shouldn't result in an entire army being unviable or unplayable.

>>51676547
If you want to rebalance bikes, I'd rather see them lose the inherent +1 Toughness bonus, while Jink remains as it is.

>>51676571
Now every single daemon primarch is with Abaddon.
Also Fulgrim leave this world to bargain with abaddon.

>>51676571
Well he has now.

>>51676357
>>51676385
I started collecting eldar in 2006. I get shit at my local for being a WAAC just because I own an army that's good ~right now~

My local hobby shop has a one Strikeforce Ultima box left. Should i get some reinforcements for my space marines?

>>51676589
it makes no sense that ground based bikes are as good at jinking as a flying jet bike.

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Rate me.

>>51676588
>Nerfing one kind of unit shouldn't result in an entire army being unviable or unplayable.

But you aren't nerfing one kind of unit. You're nerfing Bikes, Skimmers, and Fliers, which when put together, make up about 75% of the Dark Eldar codex.

>>51676588
Jinks isn't one unit type though, it's bikes, jetbikes, skimmers and fliers.

>>51676607
So old and repeated it's going into the spam filter.

>>51676594
>Now every single daemon primarch is with Abaddon.
Lol. God I hope cypher does kill Abaddon. I thought it was retarded when I heard it, but god it would be nice for Abaddon fags to get btfo.

>>51676606
It makes no sense it's as easy to hit a snotling as it is to hit a baneblade.

>>51676615
>>51676621
Then make bikes 5+, Jetbikes 4+, Flyers 4+ and Skimmers 5+?

This isn't hard. Jink is retarded and must be nerfed.

>>51676643
To hit doesn't mean every shot.

Each hit on snotling kills it. Every "hit" on baneblade is probably 10 shots.

>>51676647
Jink in overwatch is retarded.

If you shoot you disable jinking for next turn, if you jink you disable shooting.

Are Arbites playable at all on tabletop?

I thought they were for some reason and went to look for rules, couldn't find any.

>>51676662
so meltaguns hit then 10 times?

>>51676705
It represents a melta barely scraping a snotling and killing it and a melta slowly going through a baneblades armour and finally doing something.

>>51676607
rape my wallet/10

>In the dubious safety of the Crone’s Claw, that natural bowl housing the Klaisus Wraithgate, humans and Eldar watched each other warily. The rag-tag Imperial warriors were exhausted, wounded, or dying, barely a hundred of them huddled around the giant Triaros Conveyor that the Archmagos in their midst clearly valued more than life itself. Incredibly, the light of battle still burned in every warrior’s eyes – that, and the certainty of absolute faith. The Ynnari, knowing well the horrors that the Black Legion would have unleashed upon these hapless humans, took note of that determination, and looked with admiration upon the stubborn resolve of the survivors. To stand against the infamous Despoiler in person and remain unbowed… it was a feat worthy of the Dark Muses. Though it ran against the grain of their souls, even the Wyches of the Cult of Strife felt a kind of respect.

So the Eldar got wet at seeing the humans fight back against Abaddon? They must be easily impressed because the Imperium have been doing that for 10K years.

This line is written to stroke Imperialfag weenises

>>51676755
The entire setting is.

So why do so many Tabletop channels have a paid subscription?

>>51676797
Small audience so the ad revenue is tiny.

But a big part of that small audience are willing to pay.

>>51676607
This is kind of Orky. Never thought of trying this.

>>51676817
>Never thought of trying this.

Spamming their best units?

>>51676600
It's the nature of neckbeards.

I've had an Eldar army to go along with my Marines and Sisters since 2nd Ed. I was doing Wave Serpents and Rangers and such before they were awesome (when, in fact, they were sub-optimal as fuck), simply because they looked cool.

But come the latest edition, people that have been playing me for years have started accusing me of getting on the bandwagon.

What I'm saying is that the people who complain about this are scum and you should never listen to them.

>>51676840
i dont see any war buggies

I posted this earlier on but got completely ignored and I'm curious what you think:

The new eldar with the unpronounceable name wage war against Slaneesh and eventually win destroying the god, long story short, in a classic just as planned, their now fully developed god says wew lad that was alright but this seems top notch and then becomes the 4th god of chaos himself. Either the whole bunch of followers get corrupted or there is massive eldar civil war fuckery fucks, anyway chaos eldar would be a new faction introduced with fluff and rules and you could still field the one the just released and shiet.

Meanwhile in humie land, Guilliman is all like WTF people this whole thing is going to shit, and tries and changes stuff, this will unvariably create confrontation, making any game / campaing with human armies much easier to fluff and creating a shit load of possibilities. The whole situation wouldn´t change much as as the enemy outside can still unite human factions but instead of a stagnant imperium on you get a bit more action on the inside.
They would never do anything like that of course, but it would be also quite interesting if the rumoured primarch turned chaos would be actually Guilli himself as has been awakened partly thanks to a now god of chaos, he´d be secretly tinted and full of fuckery fuck (he´d campaign against failbaddon as a chaos masterplan and further emphasising how much of a cuck and peon the armless is). This might be known by the emprah which somehow would try to prevent him from getting more and more power and control? also discovered by one of the tragic emo chaos primarchs (maybe through the emprah?) which would try and redempt himself by fighting the fucking lapdog of the emprah but in a classic stupid development of things, doesn't tell anyone anything and everyone thinks he´s the bad guy until the very end when everything is discovered and all the people is like oh boi.

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So I'm getting a bit burned out on my army and finally decided to start a second one. I want it be very operator, not only because I like that style but it implies a small army which will be cheaper and easier to assemble and paint.

I narrowed it down to Deathwatch and Tempestus Scions, any advice ? No allies between either and I'm not considering combining them yet.

>>51676600
>~right now~
Implying eldar will ever or have ever been bad. There was exactly ONE edition they were not top tier, and even then they were mid to upper.

You deserve your scorn.

>>51676755
Eh, I think it's okay for them to feel a sort of comradeship for people that fight Chaos and don't run.

It shows that they, even the fucking Wyches, are actually better people than most Imperials, who feel nothing but spite for xenos even when they demonstrate admirable traits.

>>51676817
It eliminates all the weaknesses of most Ork lists and provides accurate shooting, durability, mobility, and no boys.

>>51676853
>The new eldar with the unpronounceable name

Jesus, where were you educated?

Ynnari is not unpronounceable.

>>51676471
remove jink
add dust cloud again. hell that was a FREE jink.

>>51676879

Yin-Nari

or Imari if you're into bible black

>>51676853
>I posted this earlier on but got completely ignored
They were doing you a favour.

>>51676855
Deathwatch is great for a 'YOUR GUYS' feel. You just have to put the effort in.

>>51676890
>Army with low BS
>Removes penalty to accuracy and gives them some survivability
I have no fucking idea why they had to change exhaust cloud.

Randomly, does the BL archive have Fabius Bile: primogenitor? I skimmed through but I couldn't find an obvious folder for it.

>>51676859
>buy an army because you like their fluff
>Johnny Space Marine will hate you forever because his space knights aren't as good as them

I'm glad my choice of army causes such frustration for you. You deserve to feel this way.

>>51676904
I'm guessing they thought 2+ cover in the open was over the top.

>>51676879
You're actually right, I just wrote it as I woke up and didn´t really remember how it was spelled so I just went on before I forgot what I wanted to write

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>>51676607
>Truck Rockets
Dead T1. I put 15 in a Battlewagon, and arm the wagon with 4 Rokkits and a Kannon. Enjoy 20 S8 AP 3 shots

Why doesn't the Imperium just use a Culexus Assassin to kill Lucius?

>>51676920

>they thought 2+ cover in the open was over the top.

Doesn't the Ghost Keel get that naturally?

>>51676913
Well playing an army that is good (right now or forever) is one of the main signals of someone being WAAC

>>51676920
How do you get a 2+ in the open?

>>51676948
Are you baiting or just entirely clueless about Lucius' nature.

Either way, fuck off and read up on him.

>>51676855
I haven't played deathwatch besides a single count-as allied group, but they seem customizable as fuck, and their special issue ammo makes them pretty flexible. They're also just really cool.

>>51676971
4+ automatic cover, +jink

>>51676971
Jink (4+), skilled rider (+1) + stealth (+1) or shrouded (+2).

Dark Angel units with Ravenwing can reroll failed jink cover saves as well.

>>51676995
Does Jink add to your existing cover? Like, if I'm in Ruins and Jink, do I get a 2+?

>>51676927
for 350 point you might as well take a Kill-Bursta with belly gun.

>>51677009
Rulebook is on the OP.

>>51677008
Did Orks have access to any of those things not in Forgeworld in their last book?

>>51676897
Welp, well thanks for the opinion anyway

>>51676948
Who says they didn't? Most high Chaos target assassinations end up in gruesome failure.

>>51676913
>buy an army because you tell yourself you like the fluff, but really you are a tryhard in denial.
>Johnny Space marine, and also every other player such as out of luck ork's joe, and timmy tyranid despise you too, but you tell yourself they dont matter, after all they are the ones who CHOSE to play a bad army, therefore making them bad and their opinions dont matter.

Im glad you responded. It shows it DOES bother you, which it should, because your kind are cancer.

>>51677016
For 350 points, you might as well ally a renegade knight and avoid ork garbage all together.

>>51677024
Everyone can get stealth, from strategic warlord trait, which also cancels enemy stealth.

Can unreliably get shrouded from a Psyker, don't know if orks can take the normal psyker stuff.

Don't know if any orks have skilled rider. They almost certainly don't have rerollable either, if they did I assume they would not be in their own tier of shittiness.

>>51676678
There used to be rules in Citadel Journal and back in 2nd ed. But they're all out of date.

>>51677024
well their Kustom Force field did a 5+ cover bubble around units in range, so a bike mek could easily cover 3 whole mobs of bikers as long a one model from each was in range.

So yo cousld have 2+ cover evne without jinking.

>>51677069
>Kustom Force field did a 5+ cover bubble around units in range

Now both Orks and their Enemies get a 6++ with it, holy shit what Cheese!

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How is this?

Any that should be moved around for better colour balance?

>>51677009
Invuln and FNP saves don't stack, so I assume they do not.

>>51677078
5++

>>51677092
Cover does

>ITT:
Why do people with no idea what they are talking about feel the need to comment?

>>51676859

To be fair 2006 was the one time they were bad. That's Codex: Eldar 4E, which was their worst codex and worst performing edition in 4E and 5E.

>>51677100
>Why do people with no idea what they are talking about feel the need to comment?
Because that sentence is 40kg in a nutshell

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So I finally jumped into the pool that is 40K, I picked up deathwatch as from what I understand I can basically use them or other marine factions as allies should I feel the need. My inquiry is, what are some typical squad compositions? Are there some that just write their-selves into existence with their power level or the sort?

>>51677105
Maybe, I lost faith when telling people to read the rules became "elitist".

Fuck why am I even posting, I only came to pirate books.

>>51677078

Won't you have so many units crammed under it that they barely all get a save, let alone giving the enemy one?

>>51677100
>Cover does
Except it doesn't unless specifically stated otherwise.

Why do people with no idea what they are talking about feel the need to comment?

>>51677132
>units
HAH you can barely fit *A* unit under it.

>>51677023
I'm having a hard time finding it, and I've been playing 40k since 5th Ed regularly

Anybody play on VASSAL?

>>51677157
Used to try to. Now I use TTS.

>>51676388
i need the sauce right now

>>51677126

Because you have absolutely nothing better going on at the moment and you want to talk about 40k but all the other internet 40k forums are complete shit and even worse than here, and 4chan is the only place with 24/7 fast discussion.

Trust me, I know exactly how you feel. This is like your only place to get a 40k discussion fix at any time, since chat rooms aren't a thing anymore, but once you come here you remember why you hate this place.

>>51677123
4x frag cannon vet squads are expensive but powerful.

Deathwatch bikers are cheap, fast melee units that can get power weapons for 5 pts.

Things to avoid:

Don't mix weapons. Specialize your squads.

Don't build basic vets for melee. Leave that to Vanguard Vets and Bikers.

>>51676388
King Faggot

>>51677084
Crimson Hunters?

>>51676388
Boobsnake?

>>51677165
You mean Steam's Tabletop Simulator? I wasn't keeping track of it, how far did it get?

>>51677059
And this is what cunts like you don't understand, we want to play ORKS.

>>51676627
>but god it would be nice for Abaddon fags to get btfo.
t.Wardfanboy

Which book(s) do I need to have access to all the psychic disciplines? Or at least the ones available to the Thousand Sons?

Has anyone consolidated them all into a single book by chance?

>>51676853
>united elves
>chaos faction
kek

>>51677230
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing ADB and all of the other shitstains wanking off about how awesome and unbeatable nu-Abaddon is crying as their pet villain-sue is shot in the head like a sick dog.

t. Eldarfag.

>>51677244
...

>>51677257
I cant wait till all you races get devoured
t. nidfag

>>51677172
Alright cool i'll keep that in mind, is there any reason for anything over the top like standard vet squads and then a Knight detachment? I assume they have heavy enough firepower as it is.

>>51677257
Abaddon? Mary sue? hahahahahahahaha

>>51677138
Pretty much every source of cover saves is stated as a +1 or +2 to cover saves.

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>>51677209
I shilled it a bit in a thread a week ago. http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51607934/#q51610695

There's some explanation of its pros and cons with screenshots over three posts. I didn't cover everything, so if you (or anyone else) have any questions I can answer them, which is a good excuse to post screenshots while I do it.

>>51677244

The FUCKING RULEBOOK

>>51677288
>he hasn't read the talon of horus

Emperor shits himself when thinking of Abaddon; Horus is now the sacrificed king meant to clear the way for Abby; ABD has daddy issues

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Got an idea for a new Deathwatch unit, rate it scrubs:

>Deathwatch Kill Marine
>30 points
>unit consists of one model, can add up to 4 additional Kill Marines costing 30 points each
>normal DW Veteran stats
>power armor, ccw, Stalker Pattern boltgun, frag/krak, special issue ammunition, camo-cloak
>any model in the squad can take melta bombs for 5 points each
>mission tactics, infiltrate, ATSKNF

>>51677257
>t. Eldarfag.
look who is talking.
At least ADB can into fluff.

>>51677257
>>51677272

Guys what are you talking about down there? We're too far to hear anything. The galaxy is still doing fine, right?

t. Carcharodonfag

>>51677145

Meanwhile the Tau get a shield drone that gives everyone in their Fire Warrior unit a 5++ don't they?

>>51677292
"Pretty much every" is not "every". Which is really important when you have craters, fortifications, barricades, buildings, and trees everywhere and stealth, shrouded, skilled rider, agile, and go to ground not happening nearly as often as people hiding in or behind things.

Jink is already overpowered. Don't fuck up the rules and boost someone's 4+ jink to 3+ because they were in a crater.

>>51677315
Post source

>>51677355

Scatter terrain being 5+ and 6+ is fine. They're mostly for aesthetics and are pretty junk anyway, and Stealth/Shrouded shit SHOULD be nearly invisible and hard to hit in dense cover.

Ruins giving 4+ is the problem. Good ruins already block LoS so ruins really ought to be 5+ or 6+. I'm guessing the ability to duck behind a corner or hide behind pillars is stronger than hiding behind a thin tree, so that's why GW did it that way, and I suppose stealthy units WOULD be even stealthier in a ruin than a forest, but it's still not good for balance.

>>51677370
He did.

>>51677316
Forgot to add:
>can select weapons from the Ranged, Special and Melee category
So no infiltrating Frag Cannons

>>51677377
>ruins really ought to be 5+ or 6+.

I'm so glad you retards aren't in charge of writing the rules. Not every army has the benefit of a 3+ armour save as standard.

>>51676668
Overwatch is retarded, remove overwatch.

>>51677398

If you're in a ruin and want to prevent enemy shooting then GET OUT OF LOS

You can BUY A FUCKING 4+ COVER SAVE IN YOUR ARMY YOU STUPID SHIT

>>51677400
But then how will shooting armies compete with assault armies?

>>51677408
>GET OUT OF LOS

Yeah sure just let me hide my giant unit of 30 Termagants behind this one ruin. There's no way my opponent will just drop a few barrage templates on them and clear the whole squad.

>>51677398
>implying power armor isn't overtaxed garbage
>implying they SHOULDN'T get a massive advantage because of their armor

Why the fuck would you play a 3+ armor army when you could just play an army with units three times cheaper and hide in ruins?

>being jealous of MEQ armies

I'm so glad retards like you aren't in charge of writing the rules, you'd probably nerf BA and DW even harder because hey, 3+ armor right? Lol. SoB are the best army in the game!

>>51677397
>no infiltrating frag cannons

Looked pretty viable until that.

>>51677084
Man I wish we got more fluff and stories about the Phoenix Lords and Aspects of Khaine, they're really cool and got a whole mythos cycle to draw on, they feel criminally underused by GW

>>51677426

YOU HAVE FUCKING VENOMTHROPES HOLY SHIT YOU'RE SO FUCKING BAD

>>51677426
Play on tables with the actually prescribed amount of terrain you dipshit.

>>51677426
>I'm so glad you retards aren't in charge of writing the rules

Because GW is doing such a great job with Tyranids, right? 30 25mm models in max unit coherency is going to lose like 3 models per template, 5 for large.

>>51677377
I disagree. Ignores Cover is a thing, and some armies rely on cover pretty heavily. The idea that ruins are 4+ and logs/rocks/barricades are 5+ in my mind is how you have to expose your entire upper body to fire over barricades, but with a concrete window you can hide both your lower body and a large part of your upper body.

Stealth isn't that easy to get anyway, and during night fighting you can cancel it out.

>>51677461
The point of Venomthropes is to stack with Ruins cover to get your models a 2+ cover, aka make them actually able to survive.

You're the bad one.

Remove Eldar and Tau from game and have a 100% improvement in enjoyment.

>>51677470
If you are going for max unit coherency you will almost certainly have problems with keeping everything out of line of sight.

>>51677427
>Overtaxed

Literally a 5 point upgrade

>You should get a massive advantage for armor

They do. They get more flexibility to go after objectives in armor, resistance to templates/barrage weaponry, hammer of wrath attacks, general ability to move around the map, overwatch. The "AP3/2 is fucking everywhere" meme is stupid.

>>51677476

More Ignores Cover is not what this games need.

>>51676195

bought FoB today and looked at the rules of the new characters. is it just me or are they rather tame? I expected them to be much more cheesy. comparing the new avatar with the avatar of khaine, who is cheaper, I think the avatar of khaine is the better choice. also yraine seems to pale compared to celestine who costs the same points.

not that I'm complaining. It would be nice if new models arent overpowerd.

I'd like to get Blissgiver on the Termie Lord. Any suggestions on how to shuffle the points to make it happen?

Emperor's Children Rapture Battalion (1849/1850pts)

Chaos Warband

[142pts] Chaos Lord (MoS, VotLW, Terminator Armor, Combi-Melta, C-Fist)
[124pts] Chaos Terminators x3 (MoS, VotLW, Combi-Melta x3, P-Maul x2, P- Sword)
[175pts] Chaos Bikers x4 (MoS, VotLW, Icon of Excess, Melta x2)
[120pts] Chaos Space Marines x5 (MoS, VotLW, Rhino)
[120pts] Chaos Space Marines x5 (MoS, VotLW, Rhino)
[100pts] Hellbrute (Multi-Melta, Power Fist)

Kakophoni

[165pts] Chaos Lord (MoS, VotLW, Sigil, Bike, L-Claw, P-Fist)
6x [134pts] Noise Marines x5 (VotLW, Sonic Blaster x3, Blastmaster)

Spawn

3x [33pts] Chaos Spawn (MoS)

>>51677479

Hey moron keep up with the conversation, this whole discussion started because we're trying to get rid of 2+ cover. Then you cry about not getting a 4+ cover from ruins anymore when Venomthropes would still provide a 5+ in the open and 4+ in forests or nerfed ruins, which is the exact same cover save you're crying about not having anymore if we nerf ruins.

>>51677331
6++ unless they're Breachers.

>>51677433
More like broken. But to clarify you can include him in Kill Team formations just like Terminators, Vanguards and Bikes.

So when I said no infiltrating frag cannons I meant none for them, you can still take a Veteran squad, buy 4 for them, attach this guy and infiltrate them as a Kill Team as it's a special rule that can be conferred to the unit.

>>51677508
>general ability to move around the map

I guess this is why the only successful power armor armies have to use bikes or free transports. Because that super cheap power armor makes them run faster on foot.

>>51677408
Because sometimes you want to shoot them and you generally can't move after shooting? What are you going to do when the enemy just moves into the ruin and attacks you after you willingly threw away your chance to shoot him first while in cover?

And what kind of bullshit is "Instead of using an existing 4+ cover to protect your units, pay for 4+ cover instead". How does that make any sense?

>>51677461
venomthropes should be able to split off and join units for protection from getting sniped

>>51677508
>templates/barrage weaponry
>hammer of wrath attacks
Because that's the stuff that is present in every top tier list, right?
Go play some actual games you retard.

>>51677517
The Yncarne isn't too bad. The Visarch is remarkably balanced, unless there's some way to give him an Invun I haven't seen. Yvraine is fairly silly, from what I remember.

>>51677529
>Implying 2+ cover is a bad thing

But it's not. If you're paying a venomthrope tax and not getting what a venomthrope is supposed to do for you, that's a pretty damn shitty unit.

>>51677476
Ignores armor is a thing, and many armies rely on it pretty heavily. Or are you going to try to claim that grav, plasma, and melta/lance aren't the mainstays of just about every viable army right now? The ones that don't use those are typically using autocannons and scatter lasers, so they don't give a shit about your armor save when they throw 30 dice wounding on 2s.

>>51677557
>The Visarch is remarkably balanced, unless there's some way to give him an Invun I haven't seen.

Ork KFF :^)

>>51677563
We were talking about cover and they said ruins were overpowered. Why are you bringing up armor?

>>51676312
But the guy who proposed it literally said "Nids but with Kerrigan" like the other factions would just accept that the race that has been relentlessly eating them and terraforming their worlds is now all nice and friendly.

>>51677101

Mabye you remember them as "bad". The rest of the player base remembers them as they were, midrange. But someone who played eldar for years would consider midrange to be garbage tier im sure.

I like my superheavies bristling with turrets and such, just because I like having them cruise through the middle of the fight pumping out fire in every direction.
I'm going to be scratchbuilding a Stormbird for my Genetors, and I'm probably using the quad-lascannon turrets from the Firestorm Redoubt to represent the two twin-linked lascannon on each side. If I was to stick some extra heavy stubbers and missile things on it in a few places, and just said "It's only got the Heavy Bolters and the lascannon, plus an Orbital Strike" at the start of the game, would that be fine?
I don't want to confuse all my opponents trying to dodge hails of anti-infantry fire that actually doesn't exist, just some heavy stubbers and an Icarus Autocannon or two on the top deck and gondola rails so it doesn't look totally underarmed.

>>51677557
Allied Detachment with anything Imperial with Celestine, giving something the 6++ relic from the new Ecchlesiarchy stuff and sticking him in the same unit :^)

>>51677599
>I like my superheavies

Faggot. Cancer to the game. Etc etc

>>51677166
Fracture of Ball-Tan.

>>51677214
So do I. The problem is when you "play" orks its just a watch the other guys much better army walk all over me simulator.

>>51677044
CSM player seconds this. "Lets celebrate what unites us all - Xenophobia."

>>51677592
Because of the implication that cover saves are bad because templates exist. By the same reasoning, armor saves are bad because plasma exists. Maybe we should all just ignore saves because saves are bad and walk our 6+ troops through the open.

>>51677524
You know the blissgiver replaces a melee weapon right? So the first thing to do is to not pay for that chain fist on the lord. That'll save you 15 pts. Then drop the combi meltas on your terminators. That'll get you another 15 pts, enough to get you the blissgiver.

>>51677316
gets doffed over by 50 cultists/10

>>51677599
While I totally understand your need to overgun your giant centerpiece models just think about how many people you play against and how tiring the pregame "this is my x pattern stovokar, it uses the regular rules for the stormbird but I added a bunch of extra bits to make it look cooler, here's what it actually has" speech will become
I've had the same issue with my CSM termies, literally everytime I catch a pickup at the "warhammer" store I have to explain to everyone watching that I understand that my codex does not have access to cataphractii or tartaros patterns, they just fit the aesthetic better

>>51677659

Thanks. I just wasn't sure about the most effective way to free up the points, is all.

>>51677666

No it's fine, they have power armor and ruins give a 4+ cover save.

>>51677524
Thats kind of an bad idea. You already paid for the powerweapon so Blissgiver won't benefit you as much. Give it to Subwoofer lord instead.

>>51677666
You're summing up the whole Deathwatch codex mate.

>>51677597

Midrange in an edition of not-quite-3E-but-still-good Rhino Rush and Fish of Fury and consolidating into assault is bad.

So what are the chances that a chaos triumvirate will have the Avatar of Slaanesh that Abaddon gave it?.

>>51677557
You could do it with a farseer who rolled on divination and got forewarning. Not the most guaranteed way to do it, but it's there.

I definitely agree with your assessment of the eldar triumvirate. The characters feels balanced points wise and nothing screams I WIN in all caps on paper. I'm looking forward to seeing them on the table top and seeing what people do with them though. The whole soul burst action thing and the ability to get cheap sacrificial DE units sounds like fun days waiting to happen already

>>51677244
The Rulebook for the core set+ The Traitor Legions book for the updated Chaos disciplines including the newer ones like Technomancy

>>51677721
Zero. Modern GW wants Slaanesh to vanish because titties are bad.

>>51677666
>50 cultists
>when six cultists is his equivalent in points

That's saying remarkably little.

>>51677685
Fair point, although since it's a Genetor scratchbuild I'm probably going to explain what rules it's using anyway. Doesn't look anything like a Stormbird, they're just the biggest flyer I could find reasonable rules for :0.

I could always magnetize all the small guns, so if it's on display it can be armed to the teeth and be stripped down for games, I suppose. That's probably a good option anyway now I think about it, so the guns can swivel.

>>51677689
No worries. Though I'd make your chaos warband lord a bike lord so he can ride up with second bike lord with your bikes. Putting him with the terminators will severely limit his effectiveness.

>>51677730
>Titties are bad
>made Sylvaneth models with rocking exposed tits

???

>>51677647
I wasn't saying cover was bad, just that it wasn't overpowered, and that if you find it to be a problem your army probably has tools to counter it.

>>51677758
Sssssh anon if you mention AoS your just a shill

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>>51676388
>Riotous Host

Would Grav be fixed if their shot number was cut down by 30% and if their Immobilized wouldn't add a second point of damage?

>>51677721
That's assuming chaos actually gets a triumvirate. If there's one thing modern GW does consistently is be inconsistent with their release patterns.

>>51677716
You are speaking from a man used to living in a mansion. Sure any 3 bedroom house to you is going to be a hovel. But you have never slept in a cardboard box outside, so you have no frame of reference what "bottom tier" armies are.

>>51677794
Needing 2 6s to take out a 3 hp vehicle was never the real threat of grav. Cutting shot count on grav cannons and amps might work, but the real kicker is the AP2 and I'm not sure how to fix that. Swap it to ap4 and no one will ever run it (That isn't fixing it, that's ruining it). Switch it to ap3 and it's only marginally less dangerous and nothing has changed much since most people don't run terminators anyways. It's tough. I suppose cutting shots down would be the safest approach.

>>51677794
>Immobilized adds a second HP of damage

I've never seen anyone play it like that. It makes sense, in an absolutely disgusting sort of way.

>>51677864

Grav fucking over vehicles is one of the reason it's so good. Cutting shots and axing Amps is the answer

>>51677864
The real problem is the prevalence of tough MCs and GMCs, Grav was made so marines would not fall down once the WK and Riptide variants were introduced because if you remove Grav then Marines dont have a real answer to those units.

Grav is a symptom, the real problem are WK and Riptides that pushed the game into Apocalypse.

>>51677864

just stop pussyfooting around and make it into 30k grav.

boom, now its an imperial source of haywire and light infantry killing

>>51677864
I feel like the first step to fixing it would be determining what role it's even meant to fill and what its contenders are.

>>51677894
The Immobilized entry states that if an Immobilized vehicle gets Immobilized again, it instead deals another hull point.

>>51677899
Man i cant wait till MC are nerfed.

>>51677758
It's not very clear what GW plans for Slaanesh are. I don't think we've ever had an official explanation of any kind as to where Slaanesh went in AoS though there are rumors of Slaanesh returning in some capacity.

As for the titties argument, I don't think we can call 40k a family game, titties or not. Granted, people will get up in arms over the strangest things like the recent PETA incident but anyone who just sits and thinks for a moment will realise that there are worse things in 40k than 4 bare titties on a Keeper of Secrets.

>>51676972
Not him, but I think you misunderstand his point.
Lucius comes back because of slannesh and warp power. But a culuxus can't be touched by the warp, and thus can't be turned into Lucius, because as far as the chaos gods are concerned the culexus doesn't exist

>>51677922

It's not MC in general that's the problem, units such as Carnifexes and Keepers of Secrets are hardly overpowered.

It's a few very specific monstrous creatures that break the game and if anything just need to cost at least 50% more points per model.

>>51677899
Increase the price of grav guns by 5 so it's not just a better plasma gun, make them pay 10 points for the grav-amp.

>>51677864
We first need to define the niche of each respective weapon. My proposal:

Melta: Killing High AV Vehicles
Plasma: Killing Amored Infantry
Flamer: Killing Unarmored Infantry

What does that leave for grav? Light Vehicles!
So it should be something like:
24" S5 AP4 ; 1d6 to pen, gets Armourbane against targets that moved more than 12", ignores jink, gains fleshbane against targets that used jumppacks, jet packs or jet bikes etc

>>51677941
Its MCs that have been classed as MCs yet having the firepower of Vehicles with none of the weaknesses.

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So since it's confirmed that Emperor will die who kills him?

>>51677964

Me

>>51677964
Source?

>>51677941
I understand this completely. I love my nids. The problem i see is that as soon as the current strong "MC" become something else they will nerf MC saying that they were over powering the meta in last edition or something of the sort. while not fixing the actual problem

>>51677953
So now what is the point of the heavy bolter? Grav is just a better heavy bolter! And how do marines deal with WK/Riptides? Its not a surprise that the marine armies that dont have access to Grav get shit on BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE AN ANSWER TO THOSE UNITS!.

Its stupid how two units fucked the entire balance of 2 editions.

>>51677964
Turin Turambor of the House of Haldor

BUY LORD OF THE RINGS

>>51677899
The answer to that should be buffing plasma guns.
I think Plasma should cause double wounds to single models to represent the plasma melting and burning people to fuck, or making them salvo 2/3. That would reestablish them in their niche of killing MCs and heavy armoured infantry.

>>51677953
I feel like Light Vehicles are in the Plasma spectrum, both from a rules perspective as well as a logic perspective.

Graviton as a concept is meant to crush heavy armor by using gravitational force against its weight so I feel like it should work better the bigger and heavier a target is, not necessarily how strong its armor is. It makes no sense that a giant Demon Prince, weighing possibly several hundred kilograms, is unaffected by a Gravitation weapon while a small and frail Guardsman can get hit by it. The way it works now is more like a magnet gun than a gravity gun.

It should gain a bonus based on vehicle Hull Points or miniature size primarily and THEN factor in armor.

>>51677294
I saw Valrak playing a kill team game and aside from measuring being slightly awkward and picking several models being annoying it seemed serviceable

>>51677993
>The answer to that should be buffing plasma guns.

No. Shooting as a whole needs to be nerfed into the ground.
AGE OF MELEE NOW.

>>51677909
I think >>51677899 has the right of it. Grav was introduced as a way for marines (who are not space wolves or grey knights) to handle the bigger threats that will be coming in the forseeable future. Unfortunately, this also led to grav being great against 70% of the armies available at the moment.

>>51677899
I agree with you which is weird because 3 months ago I would be more hesitant to say that. Now with Magnus' release and Guilliman's release and who knows what else, it feels like if you don't have a big named character in your army, you are headed for destination fucked and that is going to suck for a lot of armies.

But while these monsters have indeed upped the stakes in the arms race with grav being a symptom, that symptom has quickly developed into a problem of it's own. Which is why I think >>51677902 might have the right of it.

>>51677902
I would be all for this, but as >>51677899, marines will have troubles against the Magnuses and the WK's of the world if Grav went to 30k style. Now I know some people will be happy if the loyalist got something bad for a change, but the purpose of balancing is to ensure that all sides gets an equal share of the pie. Leaving marines with no answers to the Magnuses and the Wk's of the world would be a bad decision, imo.

Hence, the quandry. Now while I don't think grav fucking over vehicles is the reason why it's so good, cutting down shot count and removing the amp or changing the amp to just give monster hunter is probably the safest approach of the bunch

>>51677899

I've always wondered why MC's have so many more wounds than vehicles have hullpoints, surely it should be the other way around? the primary weakness of Vehicles is that they can get oneshot by anti-tank or lose mobility/weapons.

this combined with the ease of hull point stripping made vehicles buckle both under high volume of fire and under powerful anti-tank weapons, while MC's get to remain at full combat efficiency and take more wounds AND have saves.

IMO all vehicles should see considerable increases in the number of hullpoints they have so stripping HP with high volume poor AP becomes inefficient without Haywire because of the number of HP you have to get through.

meanwhile, MC's should see their number of wounds decrease significantly (3 wound ghostkneel, 4 wound riptide, 5 wound wraithknight/stormsurge) while keeping their current saves so they can be more resistant to a single devastating blow but be more succeptible to being overwhelmed in mass fire, giving them actual means of counterplay.

alternatively, you could increase the number of wounds on MC's while implementing an age of sigmar weakening mechanic to them, then increase the number of HP vehicles get and let them keep their table, that way vehicles are more resistant to massed fire wounds due to them not being likely to get past the glancing mark, while MC's have the Niche of being able to better tank single massive damage hits.

tyranids get the best of both worlds and remain at maximum effectiveness until they die because they don't need any more nerfs

How different are the 40k and aos tzangor boxes
The 40k one Iside $5 more, I know it has the auto pistols but does it have all the other daemony bits the AoS box has?
Also are there new rules for the Lord of Change for 40k? Or did they only update it for sigmar

>>51678026
Measuring only gets weird for me when you have to do both horizontal and vertical, but you can also load a 12 inch ruler into the game to help with that if you wanted.

Placing units under things was an issue until I recently learned holding down the second mouse button while holding something presses it onto whatever you are pointing at. Made life a lot easier.

>>51678058

It's because they randomly gave vehicles 3 HP in 6E. They weren't going to give them 4-6 HP because the whole point of HP is that vehicles weren't dying fast enough in 5E when they had infinite HP.

>>51676853
moving from 30k to 40k, what do you mean rumored traitor primarch?

>>51677974
>“The time of their corpse-god is over,” says Wraithknight Soulseeker. Yvraine, with Iyanna at her side, speaks up then. “No, they must have a new leader,” she says. “If we can raise a new hero that reminds them of the glory of their past, they will follow him just as we cling to our myths.”

>>51678089
I see thanks, another thing that bothers me, how many texture packs are there? that is how many races/groups are represented?

>>51678108
Girlyman confirmed to be xeno tricks to ruin the emperor

>>51678108

AVE GUILLIMAN

>>51677989
>So now what is the point of the heavy bolter?
Killing Hordes, as it should be. They should be Heavy 5, but sadly GW sucks at Balance.

>And how do marines deal with WK/Riptides?
see
>>51677993

Tbh it would be wisest to just scrap every single Codex in existence, and reqrite all at oce starting with the Codex Imperial Guard and Codex Space Marines using Humans and Marines as Baseline balancing everything else against those two.

Make every high AP weapon a lot more expensive but increase damage to multi wound models and Hull.
Greatly increase the cost of ignores cover. Make FnP into a save, allow stacking of up to 2 saves of any kind.Nerfs ranged combat.

Remove Initiative charge penalty on charging into cover, instead give the defender a cover save (see above). Greandes are just weapons (with ignores cover). Wounds caused count towards melee result.

>>51678025
That just shares a niche with Melta though. Alternatively make plasma the light-armour-killer by making it strip two Hullpoints per hit but reduce ALL Plasma Ap 3 (Tau plasma as well forr example) and make grav always wound on a 4+ with Ap2, but roll S5+1d6 vs vehicles. Right now Grav is an ill-defined shmoo and that sucks.

>>51678028
I want Melee and Shooting to be Balanced. Assault from Deep Strike needs to be a thing. Strong shooting should be expensive and possible to tie down.

Another idea I had was to make overwatch more intersting. In your shooting phase a unit can opt to overwatch instead of shooting. Place down a marked token for every unit that does so. The unit may fire at full BS against the first enemy unit that moves or charges through the area 6" around the token.

Are 20 slugga boyz (with a nob w/pk of course, so 19) in a battlewagon be scary at all or is it not even worth worrying about.

>>51678125
>Codex Imperial Guard and Codex Space Marines using Humans and Marines
That really worked with the nids didnt it

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>>51678028

>let's go back to the days of a single character sweeping through your entire army in melee

wew laddo no thanks

>>51678125
>Assault from Deep Strike needs to be a thing

I agree. And to make drop pods less good, keep the restriction on them that doesn't allow them to assault off their ramps.

This way more people will naked deep strike, which is far riskier as you never know when you will come in or mishap. And now you won't need retarded Raven Guard only formations to do it or that stupid Skyhammer garbage with all its other OP rules like pinning.

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>>51678130
No, Boys are the worst fucking unit in the codex after Nobz.

>>51678130
Depends on what you're playing against but most of time they'll never make it to combat, but if they do they'll probably kill something, not win combat mind you just remove a model or two

>>51678108
Haha, Eldar snowflake faction now has a fucking Primarch.

Kelly is a fucking shill.

>>51678083

only updated for sigmar

>>51678099

3 hull points is a retarded number, a leman russ should have 4 hullpoints, as should a dreadnought or a raider/ravager

vehicles with 3 hullpoints should be things like flyers or super light skimmers like the venom/landspeeder

land raiders and defilers should have 5 hullpoints, orkanoughts should have 7 and be superheavies, Imp knights should keep 6 because of their Invuln.

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>>51678158

>Eldar can cure the Rubric
>Eldar brought back Guilliman
>Eldar going to kill Slaanesh

Is there anything Eldar CAN'T do?

>>51676388
SHEEEEIT GIT EM FULGRIM. TAKE THE WHORE YANNEID NEXT.

ANAL FOR THE ANAL GOD

>>51678142
Yeah, dying from across the board is better.

>>51678170
Know the feeling of The Emperor embrace

>>51678108
That doesn't imply the emperor is going to be knocked off, though.

>>51678139
>That really worked with the nids didnt it
Nids are only balanced against Cruddace's Spite, nothing else

>>51678145
>I agree. And to make drop pods less good, keep the restriction on them that doesn't allow them to assault off their ramps.
sure. make assault squads great again.

>>51678147
What the fuck are the trukks for? Just run green tide

>>51678163
Give them as many as you like it still only takes one shot from my random AP 2 weapon to explode you :^)

Kelly was a mistake
People give Ward shit but completely gloss over Kellys bullshiy

>>51678125
>niche with Melta
It really doesn't.
I'm not talking about it melting easily through targets because they have a high armor or something but to work better the bigger it is. Like dealing an extra wound on Heavy vehicles and Monstrous Creatures and dealing 2 on Superheavy and Gargantuan creatures while losing effectiveness against non-Bulky-or-smaller targets.

>>51678145
>Drop Pod doesn't allow assaulting
They should just add Assault Ramps as a generic upgrade for 15 points to be added to Rhinos or Drop Pods. That way it'd be viable to use Assault Squads without Jetpacks and give melee Crusader Squads a use outside of getting an ObSec Land Raider. Yes, I'm a Black Templars player.

>>51678195
What are they for? What are they for? I'll have you fucking know you abysmal Ork player that TRUKKS are 35 POINTS!! That makes them the most point efficient transport unit in the game.

You'd have to be a fucking retard who runs Green Tide to not see that.

hi /tg/

so, a friend of mine gave me DoW I and II master collection, and he's been bitching me about Elite mod and Ultimate Apocalypse

its good or its meh?

i had enough traumas with Starbowmemes already with SC2, and idk.

>>51678139

CHAPTER SERF ARMY WHEN

LITERALLY PRIESTS OF SIGMAR IN 40K

>>51678130

if even half of those sluggas make it into their innitiative step they're going to smash face, the sheer number of attacks they can put out is retarded.

every slugga gets 4 Strength 4 attacks at initiative 2, they're not very fast but they will butcher comparative points costs in infantry, the problem is that retards throw them at terminator assault squads or riptides instead of tac/assault squads or light infantry.

the problem is that boys get killed before they ever reach combat, they need more effective means of moving fast

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>>51678183

>Craftworlds filled with the souls of the dead inside their wraithbone skeletal stuctures.
>They gradually lose individuality and become absorbed into the single will-less psychic conscience of the Craftworld.
>Ynnead was supposed to arise when all the Eldar are dead and the Craftworlds join as one, providing will to the psychic mass, taking the form of a new Eldar God in the immatereum and controlling a giant wraithbone monstrosity in the materium in order to wage war on chaos in both realms.
>Instead GW retcons it and we get a Mary Sue and about 12-16 obvious deus ex machina in order to explain it.

I mad.

>>51678201
It still makes vehicles seem like vehicles, mobile armour and not paper mache.
It's rare for a tank to get one shot from another tank unless it uses shaped charges (rpgs)
Make rocket Launchers better against vehicles if you want realism

>>51678210
You have 200 models on the table, you don't need any fucking trukks, they're gonna blow up and kill your boyz.

>>51678083
The AOS Tzaangor boxes are cooler.

>>51678223

WE MARVEL NOW BITCH! STFU AND BUY YOUR TRIUMVIRATE OF SUPER HEROES WHO ARE THE NEW FACE OF WARHAMMER 40k!

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>>51678216
>if even half of those sluggas make it into their innitiative step they're going to smash face, the sheer number of attacks they can put out is retarded.

>S3
>AP -

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>>51678223
stay mad my sue waifu is barefoot and you can do nothing about it

>>51678242
They have strength 4 on the charge you idiot

>>51678216
Hell, even a unit of 20 shoota boyz would wreck a ten man tac squad.

If GW were that bothered about boobs, they wouldn't have rereleased the old Daemonettes with the exposed tits.

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>>51678201

its gotta penetrate first, then roll a 6

the point is that vehicles should be vulnerable to dedicated anti tank and MC's should be vulnerable to massed fire.

cos right now vehicles are vulnerable to both and MC's are vulnerable to neither, which is a shit place to be in balance wise

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>>51678252
>He thinks Orks get the charge

>>51678241

Nigga please, We DCRebirth now

>>51678239
Have you bought both?
Based on the pictures on their website it looks like the 40k box is the sigmar box with an extra autogun sprue added

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>Its another /tg/ promotes Boys and Trukks for new Ork players edition

>>51678273
At least they aren't nobz in a 'naut.

>>51678209
>It really doesn't.
What you describe will just put it into melta's niche. So one of the two will be worse.

>They should just add Assault Ramps as a generic upgrade for 15 points to be added to Rhinos or Drop Pods
Assaulting from transports should just generally be possible but excluded for Drop Pods. Naked Deepstrikes need an upside over Pods. All these arbitrary limitations on charging in general are just bullshit. Make charge range flat 6" again, allow charge from reserves, deepstrike, infiltrate, transports or consolidation (also flat 6") again.
Allow savestacking so putting marines in cover actually provides benefit, increase the cost of all the strong weapons and suddenly footslogging and melee become viable again.

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>>51678195

>What the fuck are the trukks for?

To give your opponent First Blood and to cripple your run across the table with a single salvo.

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>>51678112
Every big army seems to have the majority of their units represented, though some things may be missing if there was never a model in a video game for them. Even smaller/ally armies like Skitarii, GSC, Mechanicus, Assassins, Inquisitors, Deathwatch, DKoK, etc have something. You can check out most of the mods by just putting in key words in steam workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160&searchtext=40k

Even with units that have never been in video games it seems some people are dedicated to modelling them. I found models for the "new" (since soulstorm) Deldar units and tyranid models that were not in DoW2. Someone a week ago made a SoB Celestian with a storm shield, which is neato (even if that doesn't exist as a choice, can counts-as it for crusaders or something)

>>51678252
Which is still basically worthless.

Genestealer Acolytes have S4 base, 5 on the charge within icon range, AP 5, same number of attacks, same Weapon Skill, Initiative 4, a better save, AND Rending. On top of that they can charge turn 1 on good rolls and have an army that hands out other blessings and auras for Rage, more Strength bonuses, Hatred, and they can regain dead models.

This is what it takes to be a viable melee army in 7th edition.

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>>51678304
amazing thanks a lot

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>itt: newer generations who don't know the true anarchistic glory of the Orks

>>51678307
What the hell were GW thinking with current Ork rules?
Hopefully they fix things when 8th roles around.

>>51678248
Wow, years wasn't kind to Sombra

>>51678321
Orks are boring and have absolutely no quality about them that isn't done better by something else.

Fluff or tabletop. Literally just barbarians in space with the rules to prove it.

>>51678331

They were really fired up

>>51678321
That's an unholy amount of dakka.
It might not be enough, but damn if it doesn't make a good attempt at it.

>>51678242

close combat is joined between 10 sluggas and 5 thunderhammer stormshield terminators

sluggas attack first, deal 10 wounds and kill 1.66 terminators.

more often than not 2 TH SH terminators die in closs combat with boys, even if the boys get slaughtered then they still made their points back.

against tac squads a unit of 10 boys gets struck first, overwatch will kill 1 boy and a further 2.5 are killed before they reach initiative.

the remaining 6.5 orks are going to put out 26 attacks, killing 3 space marines.

42 points of space marines killed for 24 points worth of boys.

people underestimate boys all the time, they're piss easy to kill but they're more than able to make their points back in melee so long as they're not up against dedicated horde mulchers like bloodbrides, scorpions or daemonettes

>>51678307
>5 within icon range

only with the formation benefit/relic icon. Not denying the rest, but Boyz are also cheaper and T4.

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>>51678241
>BUY YOUR TRIUMVIRATE OF SUPER HEROES WHO ARE THE NEW FACE OF WARHAMMER 40k!
Well guess I will just switch to other Empire.

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>>51678352
I will cut you

>>51678369
>people underestimate boys all the time,

We play the game.

>>51678211

If you are playing Dark Crusade, Grab FoK

DoW II is good already without Elite mod and its army of Silver baby carriers. But unfortunately, they added DLC levels of custom army skins for all races.

Never touched Shitstorm, The sister of battle models are bad as 4th and 5e Sisters models

>>51678375
You are correct, but the T4 isn't enough to make up for all the rest.

Orks need buffs. Without Number for Boyz, maybe FnP against Overwatch and +1 initiative on the charge added to Ere We Go, let them mix in a few special weapons for decent points outside of the Nob, buff Nobs base S/T by 1, and rework Mob Rule to not be so retarded.

>>51678369
geez, another ork player here. Don't sperg out that much, it stopped to be hilarious and is only pathetic now

>>51678428
No thanks.

Give us better shooting and we'll be golden.

>>51678369

The only way I see them actually do anything worthwhile is if most of them actually get there with their nob and whatever other characters.

And even then, it's usually the over spill from the Nob or Warboss in a challenge that gets most of whatever they're fighting.

The rest of the Boyz really just seem like ablative to keep the Nob and whatever other character you have in there alive.

>>51678392
I've also gotten into Armada

>>51678435
Is there a stereotype that ork players annoying or something?

>>51676276
Kek

>>51678369
Boys are shit

>>51678454
Orks aren't a shooty race, they're a mixed race. Their best builds are already almost entirely shooty oriented, they need buffs to melee to balance it out.

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>>51678458
>>51678392
REBEL PRIDE COREWIDE

>>51678369
What this crap fails to represent is that Orks only have the chance to do any meaningful damage at all in combat.

So its all fucking great that you managed to kill 3 Space Marines, but you've just been fucking tabled because you're running shit Boys.

>>51678480
>Lootas
>Flashgits
>Tanks galore
>Dakka dakka fucking dakka the race

Yeah, we're a very shooty race thank you.

>>51678105
Apparently there is this nonsense that keeps popping up in the general thread about one loyalist primarch turning chaos and viceversa. It probably won´t happen but people love to speculate (see my earlier post you linked)

>>51678463
dunno, there should be(whole WAAAGH thing doesn't help).
Pretty sure he's mad because his either new or cares too much, for me orkz are pretty fun to play(though i always play casually/fluffy).

>>51678491
Traitorous scum.

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>>51678491

YOU REBEL SCUM

>>51678502
>Army-wide Furious Charge and re-roll dice for charge distance
>WAAAGH!
You're fucking retarded.

>>51676355
You're going to have to plan for the fact that your Land Raider is going to be a fucking fire magnet - at this points level it will be hard to destroy, but not if they have enough high S, low AP.

If you're playing Maelstrom, maybe go with a smaller LR squad to get another ObSec unit. Or run the LR empty, good luck busting open an ObSec AV14 vehicle.

>>51678532
>WAAAGH!


Only if you took a Warboss for that one specific game turn.

Moron

>>51678508
I just started playing (and as Orks) and so I started coming to /40kg/s for army help and I saw a lot of people shitting all over Orks so I was worried there was some sort of negative stereotype for Ork players on /tg/.

>>51678502
You don't speak for all Ork players, you weedy self-absorbed faggrot. Some of us like ter get stuck in an krump fings!

>>51678581
Good luck doing that with no models on the board because you couldn't put a fucking dent into the enemy with your shooting.

>S3
>Ap -

>>51678210
>Open topped
By all means, pop a bomb on top of your boys for me. I'd like that a lot

>>51678576
No, apart from the fact that 90% of suggestions to fix 40k which come from the unwashed masses are poorly thought out heaps of Shit, and Orks are terribly underpowered so they tend to get the most discussion about how to fix them.

>>51678576

Orks are just really bad and their players are generally the least cancerous so /tg/ likes to use them to shit on because if they tried it with anyone else like Taufags or Marines they'd start a shitstorm.

Just be prepared Orks are very weak, so hope your opponents aren't building armies to win.

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>>51678416

>anyone on tg playing this game

>not just a bunch of mathhammer autists wanking eachother off about the next big hit

>>51678532

What if you don't have a Warboss in your army?

A Big Mek can't call a "Waaagh" last time I checked the rules, and neither can a Weird Boy.

>>51678590
That's the fucking point of why Orks need melee buffs you mong.

>>51678596
You don't get it.

ITS 35 POINTS. /tg/ Has assured me its the most point efficient transport in the game and it has no fucking downsides, and open-topped is a bonus.

>Orks and Tyranids and pre-Traitor Legions CSM aren't even that bad you guys just need to get gud
>Tau and Eldar aren't even that OP I beat them all the time the Riptide is just a distraction Carnifex and the Stormsurge is so flimsy, Eldar aren't even strong without jetbikes and WKs

You guys are faggots.

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>>51678356
>boring
>no quality that isn't done better by something else
Thinking the scavenging, martially hierarchic, living-for-the-sake-of-it badassery that is the Orks is outdone anywhere by anyone

Also, helps to love your faction when it was actually taken care of by the writers and department heads. Graham Mcneill, Andy Chambers, Adrian Wood and Gav Thorpe loved the Orks and made them what they were in both fluff and crunch, Phil Kelly ruined everything with his lack of interest and understanding.

Also, a faction love is further fostered when you had to actually make almost every unit in your army because they lacked a matching kit.

And finally, even the eldar know who has the right idea in the galaxy.

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

>>51678612
>My army needs buffs in melee but I'll still have every single fucking weakness I currently have because I can't put a dent in the army.

My god I bet you play Tyranids aswell and field nothing but Hormagaunts and Genestealers.

>>51678617
Everyone on /tg/ is a faggot, you faggot

>>51678424
SoB isn't too bad, they are just... probably the weakest army in soulstorm.

Their base infantry lose out to all but unupgraded imperial guard I believe, until they get their own upgrades or use a missionary's faith abilities but it is difficult to always remember to do that, and missionaries are really fragile early on, and there are problems with the faith resource (if resource sharing is on, everyone on the same team shares faith, so as the only SoB in a 3v3 game you get 1/3rd as much and your team doesn't use it at all). The canoness is also melee by default even though she also loses out to every other commander in melee iirc, and is best off upgrading to inferno pistol and switching her AI to ranged instead. You don't get any melee units beside the canoness until tier3 when you get repentia too, but luckily most people don't fight SoB so they don't exploit that, usually.

On the plus side, sisters can have 5 heavy bolters in their squad after upgrades, sororitas rhino spam is a viable tactic mid game, and celestians can be moderately competent makeshift melee units or take 2 meltas +2 multi-melta + superior + canoness and shred buildings and vehicles. I have deployed two celestian squads online and had people who lost to me complain I was spamming them.

Basically every unit of yours suggests that it be used in a way that is not ideal, so it is hard to figure it out. Assuming rhinos are for transporting, thinking flamers for sisters is best, not being told celestians have improved melee damage, canoness wants to smack things, etc.

I have won games against people with 5k-10k games played while playing SoB for my 10th time, so it isn't impossible. Just really, really hard and kind of confusing. And soulstorm isn't too bad after the patches, except the campaign.

Sorry I said a lot more than I meant to.

>>51678600
>their players are generally the least cancerous
I remember blitz brigade shitposting

all online fanbases are cancer

>>51678576
gotta tell ya, if you want to have fun, orks are great, surely you won't win with optimized lists, but as of right now, orkz aren't for that. They are fluffy as fuck.
But anyway, people here shit all over Orc, because they either a) want to make competitive builds which is kinda hard and impossible or b) are WAACfags or c) are pretty bored.
Granted, people like this sperglord don't help.

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>>51678618

dude don't give him a (you)

>>51678618
Yeah thats boring in a world of literal magic, demons, super soldiers, pinnacle of science, and gods.

>B-but we think the big green Ork knows best

Nothing of those qualities will ever mean you get anything good in the game.

You have no prophecies, you have no hidden agenda, you have no relics or gods trying to break into the world.

You have S3. You have I2. You have BS2. And you have no impact on the universe that Tyranids can't do just as well if not better.