[gurpsgen] GURPS General - Antidisestablishmentarianism Edition

How can I help D&D 2E and 3.5E players get into GURPS?

They don't necessarily want to play GURPS. They want to stick with something they know, but they'll give most games a shot if they're easy to pick up and play.

I was thinking of predefining race and class templates for them to simply pick out, but they'll also want to determine their own basic attributes. This requires me to explain how skill costs work, and I feel like I may as well explain how to make a character from scratch at that point.

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>>51658406
You can solve the skill cost problem by noting that relative levels will be the same no matter what the attribute is.

All things being equal an Average skill with 4 points will be Attribute + 1*, so if they buy 12 DX the skills they have at DX + 1 will be at SL 13.

So you could build characters where they pick a Race, a Class, and modify their stats to how they like.

Your Knight class might have Riding, Brawling and Weaseling at DX +1, Broadsword at DX +3 and Leadership at IQ +2. Even without knowing how to buy skills a player could figure out how to get their SLs.

*There's a table about this on page 170.

Would it be a good idea to allow players to take optional specialties on skills like Broadsword, allowing them to specialise in even more specific types of swords?

Help, i'm new
How would you make a medieval hunting dog? i'm talking about VIII century europe. the game is pretty historically accurate but i don't even know how to stat a dog to begin with so i will probably just settle with everything

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>>51659199
Depends. I'd either use the rules for a wolf in the Basic Set or build the hunting dog as an ally.

>>51658926
No, but I would allow a player to specify what weapons under Broadsword they are familiar with and if they liked they could take Weapon Bond with a broadword-class weapon they've used and are especially good with, granting them +1 SL with that weapon.

>>51659199
A good place to start would be the "Large Guard dog" in Basic Set (Campaigns, p. 457). I don't know too much about hunting dogs but increasing tracking to 15 and adding a point of ST should do the trick?

Have you GURPS Faggot ever tought about seeking help? I'm sure your mental issue would be cured. Stop playing shitty games with shitty rules.

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>>51659265
Here's your (You). Enjoy it, champ.

>>51659199
Have a look in the Animals and Monsters section (pp.455) I'm the Basic Set. There's a 'Large Guard Dog' in there which should be a good starting point. You might also want to check through Dungeon Fantasy 9 - Summoners for some variant rules on bestial companions, namely the rules for changing the Frequency of Appearance to a "Loyalty" number, i.e. how often the animal obeys your commands rather than panicking or otherwise going rogue.

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>>51659265
>Stop playing shitty games with shitty rules.

Why do you think we play GURPS, friendo?

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Why haven't you made a Lucha libre yet?

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>>51659265
Show me on the doll where GURPS touched you.

>>51659265
name me a better generic and universal system

>>51659359
Savage Worlds.

>>51659373
welp, anon, i will take a look at the pdfs

>>51657927
>Actually posting the links for everyone to see
You god damn fuckign retard.

>>51659631
Why the fuck not?

>>51659373
Yeah, nah, it sucks. A bigger die size does not equate to a higher level of skill.

>>51659827
How bad are you at math and interpreting game rules? This is ridiculous.

How does Mounted combat works in Gurps? is it realistic in the fact that is better to move instead of being a stationary important arrow/spears target?
how complex are the rules about it if you wanna go full autist?

>>51659902
In his defense, the way exploding dice work, there's really no difference between d4s and d6s.

Is there a weather change table? I"d like some randomness in my game

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>>51660473
Is that a fact?

>>51658406
Get yourself the first few GURPS Dungeon Fantasy books, if you don't have them already. Have your players tell you what they want to play, in D&D terms. Make their characters using the templates from DF. Tell them, "Here's your characters. 3d6, roll under."

I'll just leave this here, since I didn't see it in the trove.
Pyramid - Dungeon Fantasy Collected
sendspace
/file/20xdyh

>>51661046
You can also upload it to the trove man.

Is it worthwhile to round a class template out with wildcards?
Like Peacekeeping! in addition to some fighting skills for a Town Guard?

>>51661166
The last time I tried to upload something to the trove, it didn't work, so I leave it to the experts.

>>51661457
The trick is to go to the main MEGA site and log in there; following the link and then logging in doesn't work for some reason.

>>51661678
Thanks. I'll remember that next time.

Looking for advice on a Swashbuckler game I'm going to run in 3rd. I'm still reading through the Swashbuckler rules, but is there anything that I might need to know that the book doesn't go into enough detail about?

Is there a rule for horse mpvement? Like the fact that they can't retreat back?

>>51661210
That's what Monster Hunters does, albeit with huge point budgets. Personally, I've always felt mixing Wildcards and standard skills was odd. I can't peg down quite why I don't like it, but there's my opinion.

>>51662179
No clue, but I'd just have horses not use the retreat option.

>>51660518
I've always just ripped off and retooled old AD&D stuff for that.

I'm trying to compile a single PDF with all of the Spaceships systems in it, so I don't have to flick between different PDFs all the time. So far I've got everything from Spaceships 1, 4 and 7, and from Pyramid 34 and 64. Are there any systems elsewhere that I've missed?

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>>51660518
You could pick a place that more or less matches the climate of the place in your game and use IRL forcast and weather reports to cover it.

IE: You've got a city build near the south end of an inland sea, so you use Chicago weather for random effects.

Enjoy your lake effect snow, poor bastards.

>>51659651
Nigga, y'all ever hidden something below a simple layer of obfuscation, say into a Pdf file of links, only to have some dumbfuck post the underlying material IN PLAIN SEARCHABLE TEXT TO A PUBLIC FORUM ALONGSIDE IT?

>>51667550
>lake effect snow
Everyone roll HT minus 4 for progress...In miles. For the day

>>51665539
I think that's everything. Post what you've got when you are done, a compiled edition would be nice.

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Stargate:1888 is dead
Long live The 'Verse!

Nixing the game that wasnt grokking well for a new one, centered around a crew of space engineer/smugglers tasked with rebuilding the Rimworlds, winning hearts and minds. Little do the Alliance know they also are the most notorious masked smugglers this side of White Sun, abusing their shipping lane inspection privileges to arm brown coats from Priam to Delphi

How long can their luck hold out?

Historically speaking, how powerful were crossbows really? They seem a tad bit too powerful in Low-Tech.

>>51672367
Steel arm crossbows could be very high energy, but they also tended to have shitty ballistics and very poor transfer of that energy into a projectile. They were also expensive and finicky, with trained professionals required to maintain and use them.

They were lethal weapons, but relatively slow and awkward to use. Best deployed from behind body shields or fortifications, and to attack hard points. In open field battles they could end up overrun by their own allies.

>>51671453
Shiny. It sounds like something I'd want to play in. Details?

>>51672367
>They seem a tad bit too powerful in Low-Tech.
It coz ST-chart based damage higher, than it should be. Deadly spring will help you.

>>51672504
>Deadly Spring

AHHHHH

Maybe one day.

>>51672504
Or you could use this revised ST table:
>http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com/2013/04/adjusting-swing-damage-in-dungeon.html

It brings ST damage pretty well in line with firearms damage. I've been using it for every genre for a couple of years now.

>>51672639
>>51672504
Oops. Meant to respond to
>>51672431

>>51672431
>trained professionals required to use a crossbow
Compared to a regular bow, lolno.

>>51672367

Note that all steel crossbows use half their rated ST to determine damage and range, so even with a cranequin they're not as devastating as you'd first believe.

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>>51672783
This is like saying that being an Olympic pole vaulter takes more training then being a maxillary facial surgeon. A huge amount of the difference is physical development, not pure training.

Operating a siege crossbow was very technical and relatively well paid. It was mostly done by mercs.

>>51670281

That was my intention. Since it's reproducing content from SJG it'll have to go in the archive though.

>>51673327
Every crossbow is not a siege crossbow, though. A regular crossbow is vastly easier to operate than a regular bow.
Draw with both hands, load up a bolt, take aim and pull the trigger. A peasant could do it.

>>51659373
Savage Worlds is very far from generic or universal. It covers a narrow range of characters (powerful but fallible) in a fairly limited genre (pulp / action movie). Admittedly, it does those characters and that genre fairly well and is better than GURPS for games which fit into it's 'comfort zone' but you can't use it for anything like the variety of games GURPS handles well and hope for good results.

>>51658926
Maybe. Possibly require a rules-exemption perk for each skill which wouldn't usually be allowed to specialise?

>>51657927
GURPS is mostly PDF only, right?

What do you guys do for GURPS hard copies?

Anybody do a diy print and bind before?

Do you use lulu?

Something else?

>>51675196

Some of the more core books are still available in hardcopy. Basic Set Characters and Basic Set Campaigns, along with the big setting and tech books like Fantasy, Space, Ultra-Tech etc. are still out there. Amazon UK is keeps a small stock that they refresh every so often, but I'm don't know if they're still being printed or what.

Some books are on an official print-on-demand thing. It's something SJG is experimenting with at the moment, and there's a few things like UT, Fantasy, Magic, etc. on it. And I've seen plenty of people do their own printing with places like Lulu.

>>51675259
I was not aware of those other options. I'll check them out, Thanks!

>>51672528
The Deadly Spring comes with a table of cinematic and realistic damage values for bows and crossbows, ancient and modern. You don't need to do any calculations - and with the spreadsheet, you don't need to, either. Just change the numbers until you get the damage, range, etc. that you want. TDS requires absolutely no math on part of the user. It's already all done for them.

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>>51672504
>>51672639
Just FYI the ST-based damage scaling (among other things) has an "official" fix in the "Know your own Strength" article of Pyramid - Alternate GURPS 4.

See pic for revised damage/lift scaling table.

When should you roll Observation instead of Perception?

>>51679058
when watching over long periods of time. it's a 'stakeout' skill
contrasted with spotting someone darting past you into the shadows in combat, etc.

>>51679058
Action 2:
>Observation: The broad “notice stuff” skill. If the PCs
>are keeping an eye out for trouble, it’s safe to
>assume that Observation will spot suspicious
>behavior and sneaking bad guys.

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>>51675259
I wish their POD options included hardcover.

>>51678693
KYOS assumes humans cap out at around 15 ST. It's not a bad way to play, but can be surprising to people used to basic set scaling.

>>51679149
Then what is Perception?

>>51679366
You can usually choose between the two. Go read Action 2. It's the best GURPS book.

>>51678693
KYOS still scales swing up far too fast IMO.

ST 10 Sw RAW=1d; KYOS=1d; Langsdorf=1d
ST 13 Sw RAW=2d-1; KYOS=2d-1; Langsdorf=1d+1
ST 15 Sw RAW=2d+1; KYOS=2d+1; Langsdorf=1d+2
ST 17 Sw RAW=3d-1; KYOS=3d-1; Langsdorf=2d-1
ST 20 Sw RAW=3d+2; KYOS=3d+2; Langsdorf=2d+1

Additionally, KYOS increases Thr damage faster thus extending the problem there too. KYOS doesn't even solve one of the problems it sets out to
>"For humans, ST-based damage gets too large."
solution? cap ST to 16 and increase damage on Thr. That's nonsense.

The alternate table from noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com uses a similar progression to what Kromm said should have been in 4e but for an oversight.

>>51679366
The same but untrained and obvious. Observation lets you notice all that stuff without anyone noticing you're noticing.

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Grimwyrd lives again!
On the one year anniversary of the game, today our heroes escaped the crashed Ansible of Spirits.

Previously, Roderick had unleashed THE WEAPON against a horde of dragons who attacked the flyingojntain keep. The enemy was obliterated utterly from reality. The horde of dragons struck dead by the score. The unfortunate effect seemed to be that powering the device drained all power from the machine, as well as consuming all MANA in the lands around it.

The keep plummeted to the earth.

With the last moments of power left, Rod managed a critical success in landing the ship! (No luck needed!)

The ship crashed, but gracefully, and the heroes survived to escaoe. Leaving behind rations and useless tools, they struck out for Glardenfen in the Northwest, some week away by foot.

By lunch, Krall the Hatesmith had caught up to them. The wounded giant cursed the party and Roderick, spewing vitriol and his well honed hate.

Bomrek shot him in the face. Right between the eyes.

>>51680629
You shouldn't compare kyos and default ST scores directly, though. It defines normal human maximum as 16 (like every other attribute) rather than 20.

>>51682951
Damn impulsive dwarf. We could have dragged that guy down and sacrificed him for mana. Our elf is running on empty and we need to start collecting captives to charge back up.

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>>51683144
He aimed, he shot
When someone espouses for almost a minute, you get a bit of an opportunity to accrue bonuses.

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What is the most high power splat in your guys opinion? I wish to make a game for a bunch of world shaping deities

>>51684729
That's not how gurps works
That's not how gurps works at all!

>>51684729
Basic Set lets you make world-shaping deities, although Powers introduces the Control and Create advantages to make that easier. Basic Set also lets you make 0-point peasants. So... calling any GURPS book "high power" is dumb. GURPS doesn't have unbalanced books, unlike That Other Game.

>>51684837
>GURPS doesn't have unbalanced books
My Magic and Ultra-tech laugh at you.

>>51684878
I selectively choose to forget Magic's existence, and Ultra-Tech is... fine. It does tell you to pick and choose, though gear books generally aren't going to be balanced against themselves. They're there to provide gear.

>>51684796
>>51684837
I'm not asking for overpowered books because that's pointless in GURPS, I'm simply refering to books with a higher power level that I could base a god game off of, like GURPS Lensman (Not a god game, space opera but you get the point).

>>51684729
If you wanna make world shakers all you really need is the Basic Set, though Fantasy is very useful for that kind of thing.

My Gm keeps telling me that I "can't make an unbalanced character" in GURPS. How can I prove him wrong? For the example I'm going for TL5 using only the basic set and hightech items from the year 1860 and back.

>>51686082
From the GURPS forums, in a thread about 50 point powers:
>Munchkin's Universe-shaking Nondirectional Cosmic Hyperluminal Kinetoelectromagnetic Interference Neurodisrupter (M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N.) (+5190%):

>Toxic Attack 1 point (Affects Insubstantial, +20%; Area Effect, 2475880078570760549798248448 yards (about 74 gigaparsecs), +4550%; Cosmic, Irresistible attack, +300%; Emanation, -20%; Rapid Fire, RoF 300, +300%; Selective Area, +20%; Underwater, +20%) [53].

>Notes: It's a cosmic attack, literally. Pulses of cosmic energy that radiate from the attacker (reaching 74 gigaparsecs in a flat second) burn out the neural system of living beings in the affected area, and remember that even the edge of our universe is "merely" about 10 gigaparsecs away from Earth. Also note that an Area Effect attack with Emanation involves no to-hit roll and simply affects anyone in the area. Furthermore, it allows victims only to dive for cover, and actually there's no effective cover since this Cosmic, Irresistible attack ignores DR. In conclusion, the user can attack every living thing in our entire universe, with 1 point of damage, 300 times per second. Have fun. 53 points.

>>51686264
Admittedly this probably isn't something YOU can do but it's an example of the possibility of making an unbalanced character, at least.

>>51686082
>No point totals
>No books
>No charactersheet
Make for him an unbalanced character. What's problem?
Or should we prove to your gm you can do that?

>>51686264
Doesn't he was with mistakes in modifiers?

>>51686314
I dunno, probably. Still, GURPS isn't unbreakable and GMs should be checking things for absurdity.

>>51686291
I've got 125 points, and I'm allowed to use any book as long as it's realistic and "fits the time period". I'm also not supposed to take anything supernatural.

>>51686082
Unbalanced against what? In what way?

If you're playing a game where the characters are a wild west schoolmarm and her students building a character with 125 points in combat abilities is unbalanced.

Similarly if you're playing a game where the characters are all outlaws building a character with 125 points in teaching is unbalanced.

Since the setting and genre are whatever you and your group likes we can't possibly say what is balanced or not without these details.

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>>51686575

You could go for a full on murderous stealth sniper. There's very few good defensive counters for someone that has a good camouflage and stealth SL, then carrying a rifle with weapon bond and a very high SL. I played basically that, but an archer, and found it's quite powerful.

Of course even then it's not invincible. When you aren't engaging on your terms a long ranged rifle has serious liabilities, and those expensive scout/sniper powers mean you don't have as much to fall back on as you might like.

>>51686843

Well, 125 points in combat would make you a pretty bad teacher. You'd be some sort fucked up murder-savant trying to be a teacher and escape the fact that there's only one thing you are good at, being a murderer.

>>51682972
>solution? cap ST to 16 and increase damage on Thr. That's nonsense.

You can just discard the last two comparison entries if you like. They are extra evidence that support but don't change anything.

KYOS *doesn't* solve either of the two problems it points out with ST-based damage
>"The realism problems with ST-based damage are twofold: For humans, ST-based damage gets too large."
The problem I see with the solution offered here (capping ST at 16 and taxing higher) is it breaks the statement made earlier in the article: "There's a genuine need for a broader scope here." What's suggested is to reduce the scope but extend the effects which I don't find satisfying or effective.

>"Swing damage outstrips thrust damage inordinately."
This gets 'solved' by increasing the amount of thrust damage done. I suppose it's a solution when this is looked at in isolation but the 'solution' flies directly in the face of the problem above. ST-based damage gets too large.

KYOS may handle extended BL just fine. Maybe not. I never looked in depth. My problem is with ST-based damage which KYOS purports to solve and then thoroughly fails to. I generally expect more from our glorious line editor but in this case he disappointed.

>>51687031
>You'd be some sort fucked up murder-savant trying to be a teacher and escape the fact that there's only one thing you are good at, being a murderer.

Yeah. Exactly. Unbalanced.

In what way does anon want his character unbalanced? Once we know that we can help.

>>51687185
I'm looking to be the best murderer there is. Not dying is a plus.

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>>51687207
At 125 you've got two choices. Stealth Sniper is all about killing from a safe distance. It's a slow build, but because it's really hard to locate you can take the time to aim, hide and take your shots.

The other option is a brawler. You gotta go fast. You gotta Gunslinger. You gotta shoot them before they shoot you and push your dodge as high as you can.

At 125, this is likely more fun but less survivable then the sniper.

>>51687207
Sniper is a good way to go until the GM sneaks up on you.

Gunslinger is always a favorite. Get some of the perks that let you reload with your hands full. Dump almost all of your points into your gun of choice skill (try for a skill in the mid-20s to low-30s; you probably want to be able to soak -12 to -15 in penalties and still have an effective skill of 16). Get HT at 14+ (and Fit or Hard to Kill to bring death and unconsciousness checks to 16 or 17).

What the above general advice looks like on a 125 point one-trick-wonder-munchkin is:
With DX 10 you can spend 56 points on Guns to get a skill level of 25. Get Fit for 5 points. Get HT 11 for 10 points. Get Hard to Kill 3 for 6 points. Get Hard to Subdue 3 for 6 points. Get Gunslinger for 25 points. Get the Akimbo Perk for 1 point. Get Combat Reflexes for 15 points. Get the Fast-Draw skill for 1 point.

You can reliably (16 or less) shoot someone in the skull at about 10 yards (further if the gun you choose has an Acc > 2) every turn.

Forgive any math errors above, I was doing that off the top of my head away from my books.

Then look at techniques (but don't buy any). Memorize the ones that let you increase RoF or shoot multiple targets.

In GURPS combat power comes from tactics as much as (maybe more so than) build. Always be behind cover. Always crouch in combat. Shoot first, shoot often. Try to do it from ambush. Run away from a "fair fight" then come back and shoot the hell out of them while they're in camp or the shitter.

>>51687464
Not bad, though I feel like you might want a little more speed then that. Dodge is nice to stay alive when rifled muskets can wreck your day in one shot.

Has anyone here played Rolemaster?

I disliked how anal it is about cross-referencing tables for every conceivable eventuality, and how the skill and critical tables prescribe exactly how you succeed at a given task.

Can GURPS rules be configured to be more flexible, allowing for quick, on-the-fly rulings?

>>51688592
I agree. If he had even 50 more points to play with the build would be much more rounded. As it is Dodge is just too expensive. As it is he can dive behind cover (maybe even feverishly) fairly reliably, then pop up and headshot before ducking again. If he's tactically inclined he should do okay.

>>51688657
That's pretty much how I play. Just learn the core of the rules and throw on modifiers that are challenging (can't remember a punch to the face is -5? -4 to -6 is close enough. Pick one and move on). Don't have the speed/range table memorized? Short range is good for a -3... yeah, that sounds good. What's your lockpicking skill? 21? Well, it's kind of dark and that's a really hard lock and you're in a hurry. Roll at -8.

>>51688722
Does being in a hurry warrant modifiers?

I would say being in a hurry is the reason you're rolling to begin with. If you have actual ranks or levels in the skill, and you have the option of taking your time to make sure you're doing everything as careful as possible, maybe the attempt should just succeed.

Building on that assumption, time pressure would already be factored into a neutral roll.

>>51688798

Yes.

Base time is given by the rules, and varies by task. lockpicking for example is normally a one minute task, while an invention roll can take days or weeks.

Cutting time is -1 modifier per 10% time reduction, -90% time and -9 skill is max in a realistic campaign.
Extra time gives +1 modifier for every 2x multiplier of base time, or something close to that, 2 minutes spent on the lock gives you +1, 8 minutes spent gives you +3, and so on. Max bonus is +5.

Are there any gurps books that have more drug options? The ones in core seem lacking.
Specifically looking for more stimulants if that matters.

>>51688881
ultra-, high-, bio-tech

>>51686575
Just remember anything you do can in turn be done to you.

>>51688860
That's just the thing.

If lockpicking is a one-minute task, but the NPCs could theoretically try it all day, why not just let them succeed? Am I supposed to 'hold out' on the off chance they crit-fail and bugger the lock, even though there's no reason for them to rush or be careless?

I guess I'm used to simpler systems, that wouldn't really allow for attempting to pick locks in under a minute.

>>51688908
I did not see anything in ultra or high, I only saw medicines, I will take a look at bio I did not think of that one.

>>51688919
desu in place of this Anon, I'd just use (probably wrongly) Action's BAD system everywhere. Which is just to apply the same modifier everywhere against the same enemy except in combat or chases. The band of bandits is pretty weaksauce, -2 to all rolls against them (sneaking on their camp, asking neutral NPCs for help or infos, etc) is good enough. But the lich trying to usher in a new age of darkness is pretty bad news, so everything against it gets a -5 (from climbing its old wizard tower to trying to intimidate a black knight in its employ or looking for traps in its lair).

>>51688919

A core assumption of GURPS is that you only make someone roll when success or failure has consequences. Someone picking a lock with nothing to disturb them and no time pressure is an automatic success as long as they're trained. As you pointed out, if they fail the roll they just try again. There's no point rolling dice over and over because they'll eventually succeed.

If there's some kind of pressure on them, then you care about the roll. Picking a lock in a public space where you could be seen, or doing it to catch up with someone who's running from you, or any other high-stress situation, means you care about the roll itself. This is when modifiers for time apply -- if you want to pick the lock very quickly because your quarry has just locked it in your face, then you take the penalties for working quickly, because failing means they escape you.

Would it be worthwhile to try and keep racial and class templates set at the same point values?

I'd like it if my players were able to simply pick a race and class that they can customize with a few points' worth of preselected, preconfigured perks and flaws.

There's no way I'll be able to convince them to play GURPS if they have to actually learn to build a character on their own. Then again, if the characters are completely premade, my players won't really give a shit about what happens to them. They won't be theirs, anyway.

>>51689815

If you're just starting out, yes. I'd say it's a good idea.

The approach has some problems, like you being forced to give a race traits it shouldn't have to reach a neat point cost, and some interesting races like centaurs with lots of extra ST, extra legs, etc. becoming too expensive to be viable, but for inexperienced players I'd say the pros outweigh the cons.

Have you looked at Dungeon Fantasy? It does some things well that might be of particular interest you:
"Modular" class templates, as in pre-built templates that makes you a "Barbarian" or a "Knight" but leaves some wiggle-room for personalization, like what weapons you want to use, whether you wield one weapon in each hand or if you focus on being even stronger physically, or if you've got a commanding voice instead.
Also a fairly large list of 15-20 point generic fantasy racial templates with various flavors of elves, orcs, fairies and furries.

>>51690060
I've skimmed DF. The overall thing seemed a bit too tongue-in-cheek for me, but I could certainly lift some of the racial templates from it.