Warmachine/Hordes General Thread

First for ding dong the witch is dead.

JUSTICE FOR CRY-oh wait, we got buffed

>>51645087
Played Amon for the first time last night against the Twins. Lost the Covenant and a Dervish while nearly tabked him (he only had Blight Blades, a Raptor, Anyssa, and a Forsaken left). Problem now is I'm trying to find a pairing for him. My friends suggested I try out all of Menoth's best casters at tournaments over the coming months and checking to see what clicks and what doesn't. I also talked to my friend who plays Vyros2 and he said that I'd need to have an answer for Haley2. Are there any other casters I really need to be worried about?

Official Skorne warlock tier list. All of this is in lieu of how Skorne is an uphill fight versus Warmachine and flat out cannot beat Menoth now.

>Competitive tier
Xerxis1
Makeda1
Rasheth
Zaadesh2

>Good tier
Makeda2
Makeda3

>Mid tier
Morghoul1
Morghoul2
Hexeris1
Xerxis2

>Low tier
Naaresh
Zaal1
Zaal2
Xekaar
Hexeris2

>Trash tier
Mordikaar

>>51645245
Amon doesn't need a pairing. The only reason people paired him with anyone before was High Reclaimer was the only way you could beat Una2, but now that the wicked witch is dead, there's nothing left that Amon can't beat. Even Haley2 isn't really a threat to you. Amon can't be assassinated in the first place so now you just ram Dervishes up your opponent's asshole until he vomits Wracks.

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>>51645245
I am currently looking at a Sevvy1 gunline to pair with Amon, with this the iteration I'm looking at next (I've recently played this list with Blessing of Vengeance instead of a Redeemer and two Wracks).

Still investigating other lists, though, the Eye of Truth shakes up Protectorate list design a lot and I'm still working through how it impacts other casters. My current thinking is he raises Sevvy1's stock a lot, both by his blessed bubble and being able to stack Vision and Oracular Vision, pushing Sevvy1 up to one of the top Protectorate casters.

Still working through EoT ramifications, I may pick something else.

>>51645284
>Can't be assassinated.
Don't listen to this plebeian.
You need a paring to counter WM infantry spam.
The infraction example is a Kreoss2 KE spam list

>>51645597
The only reason anyone ever spamming infantry like Rocketeers before was to try and deal with Una2. A single Dervish can take out half a unit and tie up the other half into irrelevance. A Castigator can blow a unit away.

>>51645571
That list covers a WM list pretty well. You might want to look at Sevy2 he's generally considered better.

>>51645621
>Spacing your infantry so a single jack with reach 1 can kill all of them.
Anon please
Kreoss 1 shits on Amon but no one runs Kreoss 1, I was helping the local menoth "pro" I took Kreoss1 pop and drop gun line and just killed the dervishes first. Poped feat to open up LOS on Amon and shot him to death.

>>51645656
Different anon here, but you're aware the Dervish has Side Step, right?

>>51645656
Amon has steady.

>>51645720
You shoot the dervish's first before the feat, you use the feat to knock down the heavies blocking LOS on Amon.

>>51645736
I was responding to the infantry spacing comment in particular.

>>51645736
>You shoot the dervish's first before the feat
12 to hit.
>you use the feat to knock down the heavies blocking LOS on Amon
15 to hit, you need a 1 on deviation distance to clip him, if there's a Vigilant B2B you can't splash him.

If you're suggesting a single caster out of the 100+ in the game is the counter to Amon, then all you're really doing is acknowledging that Amon is grossly overpowered.

>>51645245
You may want to give Sevy2 a look. He plays a very attrition-y gunline that can deal with a lot of the control and scenario casters that can give Amon trouble. Buddy of mine was having some success with that pair.

Honestly though, Amon doesn't really play that much like anything else in PoM, so you're likely to cover a good portion of the field almost by accident.

>>51645284
OK, trolly troll man. Whatever, sure, Amon is the Chuck Norris of warmachine.

>Amon can't be assassinated in the first place
If anybody's interested in actually playing Amon, you should be aware that getting assassinated is his primary loss condition. He is a good caster now, a very good one, and he's more resilient than he was in Mk2, but he's not invincible. ARM 14 and hanging out within 12" of the front line is always the Danger Zone.

>>51645780
Amon is not within 12" of the front line. Synergy doesn't work the same way Carnage works. Carnage needs to clip the enemy model, Synergy only needs to clip YOUR model. So if Crusaders are what's going in, Amon is 15" away from the front line. There are entire factions out there that don't have a single conceivable list that can hold a candle to Amon, and you think he doesn't deserve a nerf?

>>51645780
DEF 16 and immunities to backstrikes, combined attacks and knockdown make him harder to kill than it would appear.

Found that out the hard way when I played Old Witch against him and turning off cheese wins like Field Gun + Rockets as an assassination option is total ass too.

Where can I find some good battle reports with Amon? Couldn't find much in the official forum and only see Cygnar blogs for some raisin

>>51645809
And if it's done right, he's behind a Vigilant (and probably also a Devout), too.

>>51645772
It's just one example
Considering PoM hasn't won a single tournament their is obviously more than one counter you mong.

>>51645754
You don't need AoE's. Boost to Hit and Damage on a reckoner

>>51645728
Doesn't help him much when everything else is knocked down and he's standing with his balls in the wind.

>>51646005
>balls in the wind
>amon
You mean his glorious nipples man. No nipples, no Amon

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>>51645623
Pre-Eye of Truth, yeah, Sevvy2 is better. With EoT, though, I think they're on the same level.

Maybe I should just give in and run *this* gunline, though.

What are Amon-"counters"?

Infantry Spam? Butcher3? Jackspam with clouds?

>>51646005
This gets down to terrain layout.

If you can get him in cover, you need Sloan-level shooting to kill him. The aforementioned Kreoss1 then is either trying to kill him with a couple of boosted shots (needing 15 on three dice to hit, about a 9% chance), as even with Flare, you need RAT 7 to hit on anything less than boxcars unboosted.

>>51646031
Amon of the ARM 14 nipples.

The first time I played against Amon, he stood on a hill the entire game and just couldn't do anything about it. Shooting a DEF 18 model with immunity to combines was pointless.

btw, why do some many people insist that he dies to every blast? You guys realize that even Behemoth only does an average of 3 damage per AOE, right? ARM 14 is perfectly servicable to take blasts, unless you mortared or burned.

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>>51646104
Thats the funny thing about High Allegiant Amon.

His gameplan is to make warjacks do more damage and dive deep easier. This means his plan doesn't actually have a failure state. Its sorta like fighting Karkhev. What counters lots of Warjacks with +3 to hit and damage? If you brick, he carves up your brick, if you spread out he runs down the important parts and carves those.

The actual way to fight Amon is Assassination. Anything that murders a squirrly solo will seriously fuck Amon's day up. Yeah hes tough, but his armor blows and his HP is okay. The trick is that he can't be knocked down, meaning you need guys with elite to-hit stats, albiet not exceptional damage. Seriously, even blast damage can stick to him. Hes not durable.

Alternatively, anything that ends upkeeps WILL piss him off. It might not beat him alone, but can screw up his player enough to make an opening.

Amon doesn't do anything for infantry/solo/calvary but he can make warjacks dance. Kill the DJ, stop the dance.

>>51646305
Because he can't boost his own armor. And a pow 14 blast weapon, nailing him for 7 pow +2d6 can very easily tag Amon, and if boosted, 7+3d6 has the capacity to be a real problem for him.

Im not saying 1 blast will kill him, but he does go down to damage. If something hits him it is more likely to damage him than other warcasters of his type. imho.

>>51646398
No but seriously a Vigilant gives him Girded and means only pop and drop feats like Kreoss1 or Barbabas can stop him being DEF20.

>>51646104
From experience playing Amon with 7-9 heavies since the start of Mk3:

- Harkevich Kodiak spam works. Clouds reduce Amon's threat range, and if the Kodiaks hit Amon's line, they CA: Grab & Smash and throw the jacks backward, cloud, and reposition back. Doesn't matter that it only averages ~7 damage to a Crusader, it throws it back 6" and then the Kodiak drops a cloud and repos out of sight and walk range, then Harkevich wins on scenario.

- Haley2 has game, but she has game against everyone. Sloan is an interesting game, but I've only played it once; it's an odd dance between Passage vs. losing the wrong jack means Amon just fucking dies.

- Troll infantry spam works. Everyone else? Not so much. The problem with infantry spam is that you don't have enough models to block trample landing spots to 7+ SPD 6 pathfinder heavy warjacks that are effectively expendable, and even though you out-threat the jacks, you will have problems jamming yourself after the front two jacks in the wedge formation Enliven away.

- In general, the best solution is to plan to assassinate a DEF 16 ARM 14 steady caster that's probably going to be standing behind a couple of heavy warjacks. This is usually harder than it sounds. Boostable blast damage is probably the best all-around way to do it.

I'm somewhere around 25-4 with Amon. Exactly one of those losses is to someone *not* known nationally, and I don't consider myself a *great* player -- Amon is that good.

>>51646446
Only Siege can stop him from being DEF 20 behind a wall, and he can't stop rubble.

>>51646531
So you're going to start bringing one list purely to counter Amon? Now we're back to square one except it's Amon instead of Una2.

>>51646448
Original guy here. Thaks for the advice on what to look out for. My current list is mostly Dervishes with the idea of trading up with Synergy. I have something like 9 lights and 2 heavies in the list. Do you think having more heavies is better than having more lights?

>>51645262
So this is official now?

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>>51646553
You don't necessarily have to have a pure Amon counter, but having a heavily assassination-focused list is helpful.

>>51646595
I think heavies are the way to go. This is my current list (although I'm going to try swapping three Crusaders for two Templars, though).

I like the heavies more because:

- Lights don't have Trample, and if you only have a couple of heavies, the other guy can block Trample lanes. It's basically impossible to stop Trample lanes for a wall of heavies marching up the field, and Synergy/Battle Tramples just murder anything on a small base.

- Everything in the list can end a Synergy chain with four PS 23 (or 22 for the Templar) attacks. Having a significant set of your chain maxing out at PS 18 *buyable* attacks leaves you more vulnerable to armor stacking.

- While lights have more boxes per point spent, the ARM difference can matter a lot; POW 10s can contribute against Dervishes but Crusaders (or especially Templars) they're wasted. The core strength of a skew list is that it renders parts of the other guy's list useless, and exposing all ARM 19+ does that much better than having ARM 16 targets.

- More boxes and more ARM per model makes it more likely that your jacks will survive with a few boxes left after the other guy has invested resources into killing it. Even without a cortex a jack can both start Synergy chains and benefit from them. This is really one of the key elements of the choice for heavies; outside of trading a (probably substantially more expensive) heavy to kill a Crusader, the other guy has to commit more in a small space to kill a heavy, and then your second wave murders it. It also improves the value of Enliven, because if they're devoting charging infantry (which they have to devote several), you can Enliven after the whole unit's movement is committed.

- Heavies make it easier to build spell- or shooting-immune walls with Choir.

>>51646884
Lights don't have trample, and Crusaders don't have the MAT to trample. Better to bring Dervishes just to begin the Synergy if nothing else.

>>51646910
>MAT 9 isn't enough to Trample

So anyone have pdfs of the new forces book?

>>51646921
So you're using Crusaders to start Synergy instead of a cheaper, higher MAT warjack? And no Vigilant to protect Amon?

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Does Magnetic Hold shut down sidestep?

>>51646946
I've got 9 heavies, yeah I use heavies to start the chain. The Dervish is only one MAT higher, and boosting exists. In the 30ish games I've played with Amon, starting the chain has never been a problem.

We play on tables with terrain set up how the rulebook actually says, so there's usually some place to get cover or at least concealment. If we played on salt plains like a lot of folks seem to, I'd fit a Vigilant in.

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>>51646160

Because I couldn't find it in the pastie and had been looking for it again, I figure some others might appreciate this too:

Mk 3 faction deck leaks (minus trolls)

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE?usp=drive_web

>Mortenebra is made even more of a ranged helljack caster
>all ranged helljacks are bad

???

So, any tips in mk3 for running karchev? I assume he's still a decent enough Jackspam caster right?

>>51647984
>Take nothing but Marauders
>Run forward
>Feat
>profit

>>51648433
This. If you have a spell or feat that gives your entire battlegroup some kind of big bonus, just spam it senpai.

What's the khador caster tier list?

Working on this atm

http://conflictchamber.com/#b21bfZgSeV222_2W3j3G3Hgi3z3t

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points

(Malekus 1) Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30]
- Eye of Truth [20]
- Hand of Judgment [18]
- Reckoner [16]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15]
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
Thorn Gun Mages [9]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Vassal Mechanik [1]

>>51645262
>>51646656

Nah, it's just BS.

>>51649431
You probably want more firey guns than that. Eye of Truth gun is also only range 8, so it's not great for feat turn. Hand of Judgment is similiar with only range 10 on the spray

>>51649548
Mordikaar is without a doubt the worst caster in Skorne right now though, and one of the worst in the game. He doesn't support infantry, he doesn't support beasts, his feat doesn't keep his battlegroup alive like it did in Mk2, Revive got strictly nerfed. Dude's just shit. If you're against lots of living/undead infantry that doesn't have tough or self sacrifice then sure he's okay. But that's the Mk2 Hexxy1 problem of just being too niche. And as for the top 4 casters in that list, I assure you, those are the only casters being used competitively.

>>51649561
I could take a book to let the idrians set stuff on fire with guns I guess? Ideally I'd use zealots but I don't have any

Between the gun mages, sunburst, and Jacks I have a fair bit of fire guns though.

>>51649594

And I assure you that I'm won't cum in your mouth. You just can't rile up the skorneys anymore, anon.

>>51646974
It should if I'm remembering the text correctly

>>51649951
>>51649561
Does CoM still grant units fire?

>>51649594

I disagree. There are several things in the errata that puts Mordikaar on the map, the best being every single high def model in Skorne got buffed. Legends are nearly impossible to kill on the feat turn, Archidons are similar and get ghostly from his spell, and all the Bloodrunner models got buffed so that they can actually dent things that aren't single wound infantry. You can even run Cetratii again with him, as Set Defense and innate Tough and Steady actually is a really good attrition piece that isn't obscenely expensive to get now.

I don't think he's amazing, but he provides an attrition list that can't be duplicated anywhere else in the faction.

>>51650380
>he provides an attrition list that can't be duplicated anywhere else in the faction
If you don't want warriors to die on feat turn, honestly just bring Makeda1. This also gives you access to Molik Karn. Her feat is fucking retarded honestly. Note how it says friendly models, not friendly faction. A Bellows Crew in a charge lane becomes an impossible task.

>>51650364
The book gives them continuous fire. So the initial damage isn't boosted but the fire check is.

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Attempt at jack heavy with Nemo1.
Thunderhead+Reliant could be 2xIronclad+sentinel for shield guard I guess?

>>51649951
Why not bring stuff that inherently has fire damage? Like another Reckoner and maybe some cleansers

>>51650380

Look, the anon doesn't even know Zaal2 exists. Don't waste pixels.

>>51645262
>>51650380

I'm going to counter this based on my personal experience.

>Top Tier (Top 3)
Rasheth - Assassin/Control/Attrition. Rasheth now brings all three traits required for a top tier caster.
Makeda1 - Amazing attrition and assassination caster. Can choose to grind out games or close them out of nowhere with a Jackhammer warbeast. Crazy diverse list variation since her feat isn't FF restricted.
Makeda2 - Mak2 2Ferox was the only Skorne list that was considered good pre-Errata. Now the list is cheaper, and she has a lot more options for alt list variants.

>Good Tier
Xerxis1 - The quintessential brick caster. All in on attrition, but Lurch actually puts assassination on the table now.
Xerxis2 - Very fast alpha caster. He will hit first, and he will hit hard enough that your opponent will struggle to recover.
Zaadesh2 - One of the best beast brick casters in the game. Very low threat ranges, but protects battlegroup from alphas extremely well.
Morghoul2 - Assassination enabler and control caster.
Zaal2 - Attrition heavy infantry list with some assassination potential.
Zaal1 - Exactly the same as he was in Mk2, except now Swordsmen can be weaponmasters. Gunlines keep him down for now.

>Average Tier
Mordikaar - Attrition caster that probably is planning on clocking you out. Archidons with Ghostly for days.
Naaresh - A good brick caster, but outclassed by Zaadesh and Xerxis.
Morghoul1 - A strong beast caster that hits very hard and fast, but is limited by a tiny control range.
Hexeris1 - A lot better, but is still outclassed by Rasheth and fills a niche nobody wants.

>Low Tier
Makeda3 - Does very little. Most of her kit requires her to be close, and that your opponent is relying on lots of important infantry. Got even worse now that GW doesn't affect huge bases anymore.
Hexy2 - 'Wow, it's fucking nothing' the caster. Play this guy if you want a shitty Sevvy1.
Xekaar - Has potential, but there is no reason to take him right now over Rasheth or Morghoul2.

>>51650644
Cleansers cost a ridiculous amount of money for a unit. I plan to get zealots eventually.

>>51650852
I disagree with a lot of this. Possibly the biggest change to Skorne in the January errata was Swordsmen gaining weaponmaster. Finally having a small based cheap way of dealing with heavies puts a LOT more value on things that can deliver them. This is why Makeda1 is so fucking retarded now, but it's worth noting that Naaresh's Blur spell basically makes Swordsmen unshootable. I think the Field Marshal is very underrated too since Skorne has a very easy way to put a single point of damage on beasts on turn 1 with Beast Handlers. Free charges are nice, but B2B is a bigger restriction than you're giving it credit for. Also Pain Response on a Mammoth is sweet.

I don't see why you think Zaal2 is an assassination caster though. Hexeris2 can easily throw 4 nukes into a caster's back arc. Also Hexxy2 has Black Spot and Hellfire why the dicks do you rate him so low?

>>51650852
>Xekaar - Has potential, but there is no reason to take him right now over Rasheth or Morghoul2.

He likely does the most to protect a huge base model of any caster in the faction.

Bonus points for the Hydra, where your opponent has to choose to walk into the feat and shoot or not shoot at all.

>>51650852
This is a LOT better, though I'd rate Hexy2 and maybe Zaadesh2 a bit higher.

>>51650601
I wouldn't run him in theme. He doesn't need Jakes and he really needs the TAC.

>>51651409
>Possibly the biggest change to Skorne in the January errata was Swordsmen gaining weaponmaster.

I made no mention about what was the biggest change in the errata, and never suggested that Swordsmen getting Power Swell wasn't great for them. I had to keep all of the summaries of the casters short to keep within the character limit.

> Naaresh's Blur spell basically makes Swordsmen unshootable

I don't agree that they're unshootable as ARM 14 isn't invulnerable to blast damage and DEF 16 isn't so untouchable with how accurate guns can be. I think it is a power spell on them, but Swordsmen delivery is also done by other casters. I don't think Naaresh is bad, I will defend him, my opinion of him is just that others in the faction just do it better, which is why he's average. The majority of the casters in the faction are good, but some are just going to be better than others if you're directly comparing them all.

>I don't see why you think Zaal2 is an assassination caster

I say "assassination potential" because there's definitely the option of Zaal2 plugging the enemy caster with 6+ boosted Sunder Spirits or having a couple Immortals pop Incorp and walk over to the caster and then boost all of their attacks with Aura of Power. I wouldn't call him an assassin, but definitely has some game there.

>Also Hexxy2 has Black Spot and Hellfire why the dicks do you rate him so low?

Because he has the least effective feat in the faction and his speciality is clearing swarms of infantry, which wasn't relevant even in Mk2. Frankly Hexy2 just missed the bus. He was a great answer in early Mk2 but ever since high ARM and boxes became popular he just doesn't do anything.

>>51651430

>He likely does the most to protect a huge base model of any caster in the faction.

I somewhat disagree. Morghoul1 completely shuts down lights and heavies that come close to his gargantuan and Rasheth's feat is similar but the rest of his kit is just far superior to Xekaar.

>>51651487
>This is a LOT better, though I'd rate Hexy2 and maybe Zaadesh2 a bit higher.

I considered heavily about putting X1 and Zaadesh in the top tier as well, but I decided to be pretty strict with that category and keep it to only what I thought was the Top 3.

>>51651667
I'd put Xerxis1 in the top tier because of Swordsmen. It's one of those 1+1=3 combinations as on feat turn with Stir the Blood they're at PS14+5d6, and Defender's Ward helps them get across the table. I love me some Cetrati brick, but damn son Swordsmen with him are super threatening. 31.5 damage on a single small dude? Nigger what. I'd even be willing to throw a Krea into that, bringing your Swordsmen unit up to the same as Cetrati in points, but with insane damage.

>>51651639
>
I somewhat disagree. Morghoul1 completely shuts down lights and heavies that come close to his gargantuan and Rasheth's feat is similar but the rest of his kit is just far superior to Xekaar.

Morg1 doesn't deal with infantry, and yea, lot fewer lists, but stuff like HR show that infantry can absolutely remove a huge base from the table.

Rasheth sits around the same, sure, but he also wants to use his feat offensively, and doesn't really help as much with ranged attacks.

Remember that the Hydra is DEF12 under feat, and 14 with the Krea. For a huge base, that is surprisingly dodgable for a big body like his.

Under Xelkaar, a Hydra can tank your standard Haley2's entire list without dying, for example, and heal a shitload of that damage back next turn.

Hell, he can tank Amon, considering the dude's got to get to full synergy to even get back to his base POW against the Hydra.

Have you guys noticed that the updated cards have new artwork compared to the physical cards?

>>51651732

Yea at that point the list boils down to personal preference or experience. I do think X1 and Zaadesh are amazing casters each, but I stuck to my restriction and kept to it according to my personal experience. I haven't played X1 yet since the eratta, so my opinion could be in line with yours once I do.

>>51651764

I personally believe that once you bring a Hydra and a Krea, there's not much else you need to do to tell your opponent's guns to fuck off.

My main issue with Xekaar is that he's the weakest link of his list, and if you're not risking his life to take advantage of his spells then you're just playing a model with a feat. I think if Xekaar's character beast lets him channel spells through it then that would immediately make him a "Good" tier caster in my mind. It's pretty tough to be in competition with Rasheth, as he is just by and large the best in the faction.

>>51651819
I do agree with that, but he loves Marketh for that.

I also think ADR benefits this list style greatly, because you can tailor your support to your opponent.

Being able to swap the Krea in and out helps a lot, for example, same with Orin.

I also like Xelkaar because Reivers are huge with the Hydra, and Xel both helps them hit and damage with his spell list over multiple turns.

>>51651819
>as [Rasheth] is just by and large the best in the faction
>as [Rasheth] is just ... large
FAT SHAMING RRREEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>51651856
>I also think ADR benefits this list style greatly, because you can tailor your support to your opponent.

I would actually play Xekaar in ADR, but the other 3 casters either don't compliment him well or fulfill a similar role already. There's also the fact that standard Steamroller events do not have ADR active for them.

>Being able to swap the Krea in and out helps a lot, for example, same with Orin.

>I also like Xelkaar because Reivers are huge with the Hydra, and Xel both helps them hit and damage with his spell list over multiple turns.

Unfortunately this is where I believe that other casters just do it better. I think Xekaar is close to being very good, and again I have high hopes for his character heavy to put him back in the mix.

>>51651890

I'm now very glad that I didn't have to include (pun intended) in that sentence.

>>51651922
Considering PP have given everyone nuts character nouns so far, I can see the Skorne one being complete trash that needs its bond to even be remotely playable.

>>51651922
Mord pairs well with him, I think.

Mord might not have a damage buff, but he delivers Swordsmen super well, and he makes Cats pretty damn frustrating to deal with(DEF16 steady possibly tough models that can benefit from Dodge can really get an opponent to over commit, for example) While also being able to switch into a decent ranged game or possible assassination. He also drops decently well into HR, as denying him souls makes Reclaimer very, very sad.

>>51651980
>The numerous problems with Mordikaar
1) He doesn't support ANYTHING, and Skorne stuff NEEDS support
2) He has nothing to do with all of his fury
3) He has no assassination game
4) Zaal2 does HR denial better as Zaal2 actually has spells on his card
5) Void Spirits rarely get to go off
6) His feat got considerably weaker when titans lost 2 DEF

I am not playing another game with Mordikaar until something drastic happens to him.

>>51652056
His feat got weaker with Titans.

It did not get weaker with DEF13 infantry.

And with how cheap Karax are, they make wonderful targets for Essence Blast.

And an Archidon with Long Leash flies pretty damn far with him, especially when it's totally immune to free strikes.

>>51652056
>He has no assassination game

Ghostly Archidons dude.

>6) His feat got considerably weaker when titans lost 2 DEF

ARCHIDONS DUDE

>>51652394
>Archidons dude
MAT6 PS15 one initial

>ARCHIDONS DUDE
MAT6 PS15 ONE INITIAL

If I wanted meme assassinations with Archidons I'd be playing Xerxis2.

>>51652181
>It did not get weaker with DEF13 infantry.
This is true, and Swordsmen are indeed much stronger now.
>with how cheap Karax are, they make wonderful targets for Essence Blast
I'd still much rather use Nihilators for this purpose.
>an Archidon with Long Leash flies pretty damn far with him, especially when it's totally immune to free strikes
Sure it's immune to free strikes, but it's not immune to being punched to death next turn.

>>51647868
Was this responding to something? Are you complaining that Morty got tuneup in her kit? Cause that is a beautiful thing on either of the crablossals. A tuned-up unicorn gun is probably also the best Overrun trigger ever.

>>51649594
Can't agree with this. Mordy's actually one of the few Skorne casters that was decent at the start of Mk3, and he's still got it. The newly-buffed Archidons are just dirty with free strike immunity, and they love the feat.

Plus he's still got those despoiler / void spirit shenanigans, which have maybe the longest potential threat range on any attack in the game. And essence blast... jesus, essence blast, that goddamn spell...

Nah, Mordikaar's got game. He's certainly better than Makeda3... wait, what? You put Makeda3 in the GOOD tier? Haha, holy crap, nevermind, man... you're talking completely out of your ass, apparently.

Awh fuck, the Theme nerf has screwed the Harkevich list I ordered and painted stuff for 4 days ago. : <

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand

(Harkevich 1) Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf [+28]
- Kodiak [13]
- Kodiak [13]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Destroyer [14]
- Destroyer [14]
- Destroyer [14]
- War Dog [3]
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew [4]
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew [4]


How do I salvage this without buying new stuff? Replace the Juggers with Behemoth and the Dog with a Tinkerer?

I guess.

>>51653797

A: What is Mordikaars deal? How do you run him? In MK2 he was definitely an infantry caster but now that Revive isn't as useful and he can't give Ghostly to units, what is his thing?

Is he now just a spell spamming Beast caster? Nothing he does seemed particularly great until the new Archadons came out which, admittedly, are pretty sweet with him. Is his whole thing just being able to leverage Void Spirits and run beasts while ignoring Revive and soul gathering?

B: Makeda3 isn't bad. She is basically objectively better than her MK2 version and she wasn't bad then either. She just has a hard time fitting into pairings honestly. Still, I think she is kind of underrated because she isn't all that interesting.

Reminder that PP had a wage freeze and didn't pay bonuses last year.

Sell while you can

>>51651409
>Possibly the biggest change to Skorne in the January errata was Swordsmen gaining weaponmaster.
Ehhhh... bigger than beasts getting free charges again? Really? I mean, power swell is great for swordsmen, no doubt about that. Don't kid yourself though, it's not the same as WM. Everybody always says "oh, but it's the turn that counts!" but that's a half-truth. Weaponmaster might not be TWICE as valuable as power swell, but it's close.

>>51651732
Xerxis1 is very good.. but he's also very one-dimensional, which is I think what would make him not top tier.

>>51652056
>"Mordikaar is terrible" guy
It might not be apparent, especially if you played him in Mk2 (he's very different), but he's good. Ignore Revive, it's mostly a waste of time. Bring mostly all high DEF stuff, use Ghostly any way you can, and use that deep fury pool to abuse essence blast. Judicious use of EB can table some lists.

Oh, and remember the void spirits that Despoiler makes can activate. AND they only need to be within 5", he doesn't have to kill them himself. If you can run despoiler within 5" of a living enemy (and keep him in Mordikar's CTRL) you can make a void spirit. You can get those little fuckers anywhere... they're great at tearing up support models and can even threaten some casters.

>>51653990
He's also pretty damn good as a gunline caster.

He's got a nice gun himself, and being able to unjam themselves/move into weird spots lets his shooting beasts get some weird ass shots, stuff you wouldn't normally expect.

>>51654021
I'm working on that right now actually

>>51653990
A: Mordikaar's "deal" is a little bit of a mixed bag. In my experience, he wants a combined arms list. He doesn't really support infantry, but they support him, if that makes sense. Obv high DEF infantry love the feat, and it stacks with Krea if you need that... but he also needs things to be Hollow, and cheap Essence Blast targets. I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the infantry choices, but you probably want at least two units.

Beasts are similar. Despoiler's obvious, but after that just take beasts that work well together. The new Archidon is sweet, but you can easily do Cyclopses (or Molik), even Titans. They don't benefit much from the feat, but they can mostly stand on their own merits anyway. I really want to try a Hydra with him, but haven't had a chance yet.

The void spirits are a gimmick, but it's a damn good gimmick. The hardest thing is delivering them, once people realize what they do. Always bring two, and run them in behind your first wave of infantry. If you can get them into the opposing backfield eating up choir or something, they'll pay for themselves ten times over.

B: The rough thing with Makeda3 is that it's very hard to live the dream if your opponent doesn't play along. She's powerful entirely on one axis. Everything she does is at knife-fight range. She's basically Madrak2, but without the support functions. In a Skorne where everything sucks, that might be enough to rate, but now with a deep stable of good casters... it's just not enough.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b41b111s1s331p1p2B2B2n2n2n2o2o2o

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points

(Mortenebra 1) Master Necrotech Mortenebra [+24]
- Deryliss
- Leviathan [16]
- Leviathan [16]
- Malice [15]
- Harrower [16]
- Harrower [16]
Warwitch Siren [4]
Warwitch Siren [4]
Necrotech [2]
Necrotech [2]
Necrotech [2]
Scrap Thrall [2]
Scrap Thrall [2]
Scrap Thrall [2]

Should I take three slayers instead of two harrowers?

>>51650644
Feoras warjack has the highest range flamethrower. I want to pick up malekus and i was looking at what would work well. Considered it.

Who Caine3 here?

Got my thorn gun mages today.

Why do they need swords? They have gunfighter.

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>>51645087
Why is this guy so ignored.. i thought by now he would be baller

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>>51645087
thinking of doing this to my new mini .. putty time or no?

also i think paint wise it would just read MSGA

>>51645262
Zaal2 not competetive? wtf is wrong with you?

>>51655910
Hordes is weak (he also doesn't beat Una), so him beating up dragons is just lame.

Also the game is seriously lacking in hype

>>51656223
He might beat Una now.

>>51653990
>Makeda3 isn't bad. She is basically objectively better than her MK2 version
Her Mk2 version had Beat Back and Fate Walker available. The first one was replaced but the second one is still missing.

>>51655670
Just don't assemble them with swords. Nobody will ever notice. And it won't surprise anyone either because you will never use them anyway.

>>51655922
Do you really want to put in that effort to chase stale memes?

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>>51657390
>Do you really want to put in that effort to chase stale memes?

would this in mini form be too stale?

Yo guys, wanted to ask if there's any info out there on the giants or the city of behemoth on Urcaen?

Another question, where the fuck are the trollbloods going exactly? Like I understand they started around the area of Menoth/Lael/Cygnar all meet up, but they're all traveling to some place new, so where are they headed in a general sort of direction according to the lore?

Looking at the world map the only place they might think they have a ghost of a chance is in Ios, and that's a kinda big maybe, I was never clear on if nobody went into Ios because the elves killed everybody who stepped foot inside of it or because the elves politely turned most folks away for most of history.

>>51657823
on Caen, not Urcaen, sorry.

>>51657823
>Another question, where the fuck are the trollbloods going exactly? Like I understand they started around the area of Menoth/Lael/Cygnar all meet up, but they're all traveling to some place new, so where are they headed in a general sort of direction according to the lore?
It seems they are heading south. They're don't have any particular goal as far as I know other than "a place that doesn't suck".

And yes, Iosians would probably kill them on sight if they entered Ios.

>>51657367
Yeah one of the single biggest nerfs to Skorne was the removal of that animus. They can decrease point costs and increase STR all they want, but it isn't going to fix the problem of not having that animus.

>>51654433
You need to stop thinking of Makeda3 as a surf n turf caster and start thinking of her as a caster who can take out a heavy on her own.

>>51655910
Personally I hate his figure.

>>51657851
Where the hell is there south to go? They'd have to take to the oceans wouldn't they? Or kill off a fuckton of Cygnarites.

Well given everybody has a hateboner for Cygnar because they're THERE that makes sense I guess.

>>51658442
>You need to stop thinking of Makeda3 as a surf n turf caster and start thinking of her as a caster who can take out a heavy on her own.
Yeah, that's a common mistake. She just needs a little help with that.

What I'd like to see most is her getting some variation of "Rhythm of War" except that it costs 2 and only lasts a turn.

>>51658627
What I'd like to see is FATE WALKER.

>>51659215
I can see why they won't do that so I'd be totally fine with an alternative solution. Just not exactly Rhythm of War because that would be horrible with Vortex.

What is it like being a Skorne player

>>51659398
Pretty damn good but also rather overwhelming. It's like we got an entirely new faction to play with. While that is amazing, it will take some time to fully process.

>>51646974
Why would it?

MAGNETIC HOLD 3 8 – – UP YES
Target model/unit suffers –2 SPD and DEF and cannot charge or
make slam or trample power attacks. Friendly Faction construct
models charging an affected model gain +2˝ movement.

It giving -2 SPD has no matter on movement unless you're moving up to your current max. Unless the thing you're hitting with Magnetic Hold has SPD3 or less, it would change absolutely nothing.

>>51659398
It's like being fucked in the ass with a cactus, then when the person doing the fucking says they'll at least lube it up, they use fucking mint fresh bullshit lube and you're left wondering why you signed up to be ass fucked in the first place.

People who think Skorne just needs to be figured out are in denial.

>>51659564
And now look at this fucking faggot. People like him are why Skorne players are not taken seriously ever. Skorne has one of the broadest stables of good models and lists in the entire game and he still whines like the faggoty pussy he is. he won't be satisfied until he's handed free wins on a silver platter and whine insistantly until then.

Fuck you and people like you. Grow some balls and fucking git gud.

>>51659586
Everything is just a variation on a theme of vanilla beatsticks. That's my problem. I don't look at Skorne models and go, "Hey, that'd go great with THIS caster", because anything synergistic tends to be weak, like Zaal2 and Immortals, or niche like Mord and Void Spirits.

>>51659616
My experience is quite the opposite. Mk2 Skorne is pretty close to what you described. Mk3.1 Skorne has so many subtleties like hit+run archidons, baiting attacks on the enemy turn, cloud walls and some models with crazy attack angles. Maybe you need to try different lists? I will agree that I often reach for our staples like PGBH, Gladiator or Karax, but branching out from there is quite possible and for once actually viable.

>>51654021
Oh no, the company that didn't sell anything for half a year due to a new edition announcement wasn't able to give it's employees optional gift money.

Look, there are a lot of valid concerns to throw at PP, but saying you should abandin the game because the company did what a company does when it had a bad financial year is stupid.

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>Skorne did really well at LVO
>The Skorne players never had an Una2 matchup, so it doesn't count.

>>51659586

The stuff coming out of him suggests he's more of a skorne owner than a skorne player.

And this is the internet. He could just a be a horse. I certainly haven't come across an unhappy skorne player lately. Even our unhappy skorne player made sure to say what he was unhappy about was things he wasn't playing.

>>51659398
Very much this --> >>51659465

Skorne right now feels like everybody else did last June.

>>51658442
No, I get that she's a super solo with good ability to bully the table. My point was, that on its own is not usually enough to make a broadly competitive caster. Even the Butchers mostly do other things besides just hackin and slashin their way to victory. Mak3's damage buff requires that she be in combat with the model for it to work. And now that Fate Walker doesn't trigger at the end of the turn, you can't even pop in and out with it.

Look, I'm not saying Makeda3 is terribad. She's interesting, you can have some fun with her and probably knock in some heads locally with a bit of practice... but that's true of almost every caster. But she's got a lot of bad matchups... gunlines, control casters, harder attrition armies than hers... She's not going to get you to the top tables at a large tournament without a LOT of luck.

>>51658489
>Trollbloods
>Where the hell is there south to go?
Nah, check that map. There's a whole jungle sub-continent to the southeast of PoM. It's where the croak raiders come from IIRC.

>>51657823
Best source for info on the Giants is the old Monsternomicon books (especially the 2nd one)... the ones that were written to be played with D&D 3.5 rules, not the new WMHRPG ones.

>>51657414
Nah, you've still got, at minimum, a solid 4 years to take advantage of that one.

>>51659967
Well 2na used to be backbreaking for Skorne. But old 2na is gone now, so I'd say it retroactively counts.

>>51660346
>No, I get that she's a super solo with good ability to bully the table.
My favorite game with Mak3 was against Trolls. I had her parked on her flag and the Troll player just charged 1 heavy into her per turn. She taked it like the motherfucker she is, killed the heavy and asked for more.

Some luck was involved, but not a terrible amount.

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>>51645087
I started Age of Sigmar recently has my very first tabletop wargaming. I never actually played I just wanted to paint stuff. Once I am done painting the army from the base set (bought it with a friend and split it), I will have to chose what to do next. I will have to start from scratch anyway as I wanted to play Orks in Age of Sigmar.

But recently I've been looking into warmachines and that's actually what people play at my LGS. It seems cheaper, the fluff seems cool (love the fact there is sci-fi and fantasy in the same game).

Sell me on Warmachine/Hordes. Are the models as good looking as GW ? Is it cheaper ? Is there some kind of Orks-like faction ?

Here, take this funny picture.

>>51660396
>4
8.

>>51660447
Let's get a few things out of the way:

1) WMH is not (necessarily) cheaper than AoS or 40k. It can be in certain cases, but it isn't always.
2) The material and casting quality is not as good as that of GW. How much worse is it? It depends. The Metal and Metal/Resin kits are really good as are the Plastic ones. The pure Resin kits use a different kind of Resin and are usually of poor quality.
3) WMH does not offer as many opportunities for kitbashing and individual posing as GW games do.

Now, with these out of the way, let's look at why I still enjoy it more than any other game ever.

1) The gameplay is vastly superior. It's challenging and it's deep. You can play for years and still learn new tricks every game. On the flip-side this means that you will lose a lot early on, but if you have my kind of attitude you'll enjoy it more than any cheap victory.
2) The balance is not perfect, but it's improving steadily. The game has just gone through a rough phase with the edition change in mid-2016, but it's recovering.
3) The setting is great. If you're into that kind of stuff you might want to take a look at the RPG, either as a game itself or as fluff material. The ongoing narrative of the wargame itself is somewhat lacking. It's not terrible, just bland.

With this in mind, welcome to WMH, enjoy your stay, please don't mind the trolls.

>>51659967
I'm pretty god damn sure one of them had a Una2 matchup, because I remember a dude being jammed incredibly hard.

>>51654021
Still not a single source :^)

>>51660544
>please don't mind the trolls
Unless you're playing them, of course. In which case, troll away.

>>51660864
If I had to indeed start Warmachine I would very probably pick Trolls, their design looks dope.

>>51660544
WMH is better in terms of gameplay than GW games....but so is everything.

Its gameplay is pretty boring compared to most other games, Infinity, Malifaux, Guild Ball, Armada, etc.

If you don't like the setting, the gameplay alone will not carry you.

How do you deal with an opponent that out threats you?

>>51661002
>Its gameplay is pretty boring compared to most other games, Infinity, Malifaux, Guild Ball, Armada, etc.
>If you don't like the setting, the gameplay alone will not carry you.
I disagree with your first point, but your last is of course true. I'd never play a game whose setting I hate. The gameplay is far from boring though. It's different from the games you listed, but not inferior.

Is WHAC dead?

>>51661233
Attrition. If you're going to take the alpha, position yourself to have a more devastating counterattack.

Pushing a wall of chaff in front of your valuable targets is one way. Taking advantage of terrain is another.

>>51661285
So faster factions generally have the upper hand?

>>51661233
That is a really big question and the answer depends on a number of factors, such as:
1) How far does your opponent outthreat you?
2) How much of your opponent's forces outthreat how much of yours?
3) Who went first and how far can you get into the field on turn 1?

Give me a concrete example and we can talk more about this.

>>51661319
In a vacuum, yes. But speed is usually something they pay for.

>>51661319
Yeah, it's a decided advantage. It's not insurmountable, though, and it's something that you learn to play in to (or you lose a lot).

Cannon fodder, wedge formations, good terrain use, running to engage, etc. Most slow stuff is more points-efficient than fast stuff, so you should have more stuff on the board to work with.

>>51657390
What's wrong with gun mages?

In a protectorate list they provide some really interesting tools that you don't get elsewhere in black penny and thunderbolt. And the immolation shot synergizes super well with malekus and feora2.

>>51661535
different anon, but I think he means they wouldn't use the swords

>>51661319
Not necessarily.

If you have slower models, you can usually give up some of them for sacrifice in the prospect of wiping the attackers out with a counter attack of your own. In the off-chance that your opponent doesn't take the bait, you will score the mission objectives without resistance.

>>51661319
As a few other Anons have said, yeah, speed and mobility are huge advantages. But most factions that do those things well have other disadvantages, often being more fragile and/or more expensive - compare the highly mobile beasts of Legion and Circle to the slower ones in Skorne and Trolls, for instance.

>>51661253
I have it and it's up with the January Errata.

>>51662109
Does it still have the massive errors from a month or so ago? I mean missing models and plain wrong stats?

I'd really like to use it again, but it was pretty terrible back then.

>>51662133
Don't know man I dowloaded it 2 weeks ago for Circle I think it's fine, but I don't really read the cards cause I have the phisical ones.

I use it mainly for making list and keeping count of the damage.

Following on some of the Amon discussion yesterday, had a game against him that was interesting. My pair was Caine2 / Haley3 against his Amon / Sevy2 (this is the player I mentioned above). Ended up being Caine2 vs Amon. Not sure Amon is a great pick for him in to Cygnar in general, but I believe he's trying to get more tabletime with him, ergo a little favoritism. Small grain of salt there.

As strong as Amon is, I felt like I was at an advantage all game. He played a typical jackspam list, weighted toward heavies. Having access to Shadowfire meant that Caine's 19" zone of exclusion was prettymuch absolute. He was, of course, chewing up my army pretty quick, but Caine's more than willing to feed Amon his entire list if it means lining up a shot. He's soft enough that he can die just to trickshots or e-leaps over a couple turns. Even the humble FFE GMCA can potentially one-shot Amon with hot dice. Ended up running in a last surviving ranger and gatecrashing to a win (this was late, board was relatively depopulated).

Now, granted, Caine2 is obviously a top-tier assassin, which is not Amon's favorite thing to see. But I think almost any Cygnar list is going to present at least some ranged assassination threat he needs to be worried about. Screening with heavies just doesn't cut it with the GMCA being so prevalent, and shooting accuracy isn't exactly something Cygnar struggles with.

>>51662109
No matter how much I update mine it doesn't update.

>>51661975
Well the trick is I play Skorne and I'm struggling with how to actually play in a way that isn't just jamming heavies behind a screen of Nihilators.

>>51662494

Learn how, or accept that your personal skill-set doesn't allow you to employ tactics other than that?

>>51662564
But my heavies just suck mad wang. I feel like I can't play without a Gladiator, then I can't risk losing it. Throw in Handlers and my list starts out with 22 points of support.

>>51662627

You can probably afford to get the gladiator killed second or third, that way it isn't so much support as followup wave.

>>51662494
Here's a few things you can do if you want to play something different:
1) Play shooting-heavy.
2) Play infantry-heavy.
3) Play with higher threat range models like Archidon, Cyclopses, Xerxis2.
4) Play Zaadesh2.

But most importantly: Play. You'll get the hang of it soon enough.

>>51660617
>he doesn't have friends that work at PP
>implying half of Bellevue hasn't worked there and left

>>51663092
I only have an uncle who works at Nintendo.

>>51663092
>"I totally know this guy"

So what you're saying is that there's literally no verifiable source and every info on tg pertaining to PP's state or politics could just as heavily come straight from some random anons ass?

>>51661234
Nah, it's pretty boring.
50% of your time is watching your opponent do stuff with little-to-no input from you unless you need to roll Tough or have Counter Charge or something. Even then you don't do much.

Half the time my opponents look at their phone and only look up when I'm rolling dice.

>>51663777
Play Karchev, Zaadesh2, Kromac2, or Vyros2, Reznik1, or any other caster who also has big abilities that let them play on their opponent's turn.

>>51663777
Well I don't sit with my thumbs in my ears going "lalalalala" during my opponent's turn. YOu know you can actually use that time to plan your next turn, right?

>>51663777

If you're not paying attention to what your opponent is doing and not planning out your next turn then you're just not even giving the game the chance to be interesting.

>>51663777
>Tabletop gaming is not a social event

I feel the urge to call you a millenial and make fun of your attention span, but lack the motivation to do so properly at the moment.

>>51663499
Do you record every bitching your friends do about their work?

>>51664632
>>51664597
>>51663957
Niggas I write battle reports. I HAVE to pay attention to what my opponents so that I can take notes.

But then /wmhg/ is terrible at the game so clearly it stems from your lack of reading comprehension.

So me and my friends getting back into warmahordes after an 8 month or so hiatus.

My problem is my positioning skills are just terrible and I play and own Circle, so I get steam rolled every game.

So if I could ask you guys, what are some good pretty forgiving armies/warcasters I could try out?

Just uninstalled and reinstalled WHAC from the OP link and it doesn't have the Skorne errata on it.

So picking up Menoth

Any must haves besides Choir I should be aware of?

planning on mostly playing Harby, Reznik and Feoras

>>51666622
Racks. Can't go wrong with racks.

>>51662627
In trolls you start with a runebearer (your warlocks never have enough fury) stone (everything assumes you have it) and mauler (and when he dies your heavies end up with p+s 15 at two initials and fury four with only one caster that can directly buff the damage output of one at a time, slightly). That is 34 points of support.

>>51666622
Wracks, Heirophant, Vassals, and the Covenant I use in almost every game. Other than that, Daughters, Idrians &CA, Flamebringers and Sunbursts are great units.

>>51666909
>>51666657

thanks guys

Now to just settle on a color scheme heh

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>>51666805
>if I want arm 24 I have to pay for it
>if I want additional fury I have to pay for it
>if I want pow 19 attack I have to pay for it
>if I want free charges I have to pay for it

so what is the actual reason that Convergence can't take Mercs or Minions? Is it mechanical? Is it lore?

>>51666970
I think everyone has to pay for free charges.

What non-colossal jacks I should take with Mortenebra?

>>51667303
Lore wise, CoC is a super secret cult hidden inside an open, but already semi secret cult.

So the basic cult of Cyriss is something most people are aware of, but is really only joined by mathematicians, engineers, and others of that bent. though it also sees people like mechanics and the like as well. They're generally very under the radar, and have little overall political power and don't get seen by many people.

However, the actual Convergence uses these groups to recruit for themselves, and are incredibly secretive, to the point that practically no one is aware they exist. They've worked this way for hundreds of years, banking on their ability to achieve immortality to allow them to be patient and move very slowly. They also tend to work in remote and uninhabited areas, building their factories and bases underground.

So basically, as far as most of the world is concerned, they do not exist. They're acting more openly now, of course, but even that isn't exactly open warfare. And their advanced technology(they've achieved mass teleportation, for example) means that they're incredibly difficult to pin down or otherwise actually bring force against.

So between their natural secrecy, the fact that there's no record of them(remember, most mercs in the IK setting are professionals who insist on a proper contract), and the fact that those who do know of them either fear or hate them means they're not exactly prime bosses to work for.

>>51667346
Yes. Yet some players see fit to complain when their faction has to pay for said free charges.

>>51666970
>if I want SPD 6, I can't fill up my jacks

Life is full of hardships. Less complaining.

>>51667396

tentacle rape heavy that isn't released yet

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Who is the better modelfu; Manhunter-chan or Kossite-chan?

>>51668902

The correct answer is always Feora

You just can't beat her fiery personality

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>>51669068

Feora is the hottest girl around

>>51666622
With Harbinger you want at least one unit of Knights Exemplar.
When you say Feora you mean Feora3, right? 1 works well against infantry and 2 is probably the worst caster in PoM right now. Threeora has at least game as a walking, murdering incite machine

>>51667396
In addition to at least one? One Inflictor is nice, at least one arc node for flexibility and then some Slayers or Seethers.
If you don't bring a colossal you'll probably want one of the crab jacks to trigger overrun

>>51669653
Why Inflictor?

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>>51668902
Greatest Rack

>>51669679
It's a shield guard? Morty's pretty weak to ranged assassination.

>>51669703
Oh yeah, I was thinking of Corruptor. Well, I won't take an Inflictor either until it's cast in metal.

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>>51669479
Makeda is best girl. /thread

>>51666805
Trolls have a better defensive statline than titans. Don't forget that Skorne still hasn't been truly compensated for losing 2DEF on all titans.

Do I want anything but maximum beasts with Kromac2?

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>>51655910
im not sure in truth. in theory he's great what with countercharge, term velocity, and mortality and lamentation makes him a monster to say nothing of his combat ability's. it could be that he's still seen as too hordes focused, which while his feat and things like dismember give him a slight edge against hordes he's more well-rounded now then his niche in MK.2

I myaelf just got back from a game with him using this list.I was playing against a guy using the wild hunt theme with Grayle and he got the alpha strike on my jacks with ALL his wolfsworn and tore them to shreds im wondering if I overdid it on the jacks because after that I just didn't have enough killing power to clear upwards or 30+ models.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b41b161w191p1v1v1h0t1Q1D1Ff0

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points

(Venethrax 1) Lich Lord Venethrax [+26]
- Deathjack [23]
- Deathripper [6]
- Harrower [16]
- Slayer [10]
- Slayer [10]
- Stalker [8]
- The Withershadow Combine [9]
Satyxis Blood Witches (min) [8]
Mechanithralls (min) [6]
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [4]
Soul Trapper [1]

Not having erebus in with Venny is a mistake I think. stationary on a countercharge is a magical fucking gotcha.

>>51665779
Well if it's so boring, why are you writing about it?

>>51669894
Well you want a bit of Support like a Blackclad or two and maybe some Stones.

>>51671636
>stationary on a countercharge is a magical fucking gotcha
And even of not the opponent still has to play around it.

>>51669807
10/19-21 vs 12/18 isnt much better in a meta where everything is mat/rat 7 on average. And trolls have less initials, less p+s, free charges only with very few warlocks, no good beast support (knot and whelps vs handlers/stones/whatever from the legion assortment and whatnot) and the support is costlier on top of that.

>>51666970
>if I want to surpass arm 18 I need to pay 9
>if I want to surpass p+s 15 I need to pay 15
>very limited acess to free charges (more than one beast can only get them on feat turns)

>>51673846
Fuck all that noise when you can give a beast +4STR.

>>51674486
>27 points of support that hogs caster resources to give an arm18 ps15 15-19 points beast +2/+4 where menoth or khador can reach those stats on 10-12 points models with 7 to zero points of support.

>>51674571
Conversely, a Khador player cannot support his 12 point models in any way, no matter how hard he tries.

>>51674792
Well there IS Boundless Charge.

>>51674801
Which costs 2 Focus. Meaning after you fill up your jack, you are standing at 2.

Meaning you can either fill up another jack and go nude or or sit on it, hoping not to die with 28 health.

>>51674817
Sure. BC would be broken if it were free.

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>>51674838
*ahem* I agree, fellow player. Don't mind the unrelated picture.

>>51674870
Heh, well I guess he pays for it in points.

>>51674920
>17
*gulp*

W-W-We are not broken! I swear!

>>51674947
That's a fair price. Very strong, but not OP.

>>51674960
Ruin is very underpriced. Even without boundless charge, Ruin is has 2" melee range, MAT 8, immunity to spells and the abilities to both protect nearby models from spells and being a self-sufficient engine, due to souls.

In comparison, the Spriggan costs 19, loses 2 points of MAT and trades the magical shields and soultaker for Bulldoze, steady and Stealth removal.

These two are definitely swapped as far as points are concerned and nobody will ever know why.

>>51674986
And it's still as easy to remove as a 10p Marauder. Seems fair.

>>51674993
So is the spriggan though. That 1 point of armor isn't doing anything once the arm is gone.

>>51675109
Yeah, the Spriggan is overcosted. That's not news.

/tg/ I am a salty Skorne player who wants to learn attrition instead of trying to get the alpha on heavies that always have bigger threat ranges than me anyway. On my to-buy list is a unit of Karax, a Feralgeist, and Saxon Orrik with the intent of him replacing a Gladiator in certain lists. Can I do it, /tg/? Can I stop being a salty Skorne player?

>>51675352
Saxon can not replace a Gladiator. Karax are really good and will help you with your problem.

But your real problem is that if you go into those games with your victim attitude you will get what you deserve.

>>51675407
>Saxon can not replace a Gladiator
Surely if I'm waiting for my opponent to come to me, having access to Pathfinder for 4 points rather than 15 is fine enough? For a Gladiator's points I can bring Saxon and the Karax.

>>51675533
Saxon cannot Pathfinder Beasts.

>>51675591
o fug

>>51665332
No, but I can usually point to a tweet or a facebook post they made.

>>51660356
It's also where the gatormen originated.

And iirc it's where there's a territory dispute between the pigs and gators, though that may be a bit further north where the swamps give way to the savanna.

>>51669796
Why is grandma trying to be sexy?

I think this was asked before, but what the fuck are Skorne anyway?

Are they Elves? Are they related to the Scyrah and Everblight Elves?

>>51677201
They are simply Skorne. A completely separate species from elves. They're probably closest to Hobgoblins if you want a Fantasy analogy, but they are based on a bunch of real world cultures and fictional societies aswell.

>>51677201
>>51677235
Yes, Skorne are the Warmahordes analogue to hobgoblins.

For some reason there's a group of people who seem to think that because the Skorne take cues from real world cultures that they somehow aren't analogues to a fantasy race.

Rhulfolk - Dwarves
Iosians - High Elves
Nyss - Wood Elves
Blighted Nyss - Dark Elves
Skorne - Hobgoblins
Gobbers - Goblins
Ogryn - Ogres
Farrow - Orcs
Bog Trogs - Sahuagin
Trollkin - Trolls
Croaks - Bullywugs
Gatormen - ???

The thing to remember is that while most fantasy settings feature civilizations that are in a medieval-style culture at best, Warmachine factions are much more advanced and feature more Age of Sail or Victorian styled cultures while Hordes factions seem to mostly be Roman Empire or Renaissance styled cultures. Everything is more advanced than you'd expect.

>>51677552
>The thing to remember is that while most fantasy settings feature civilizations that are in a medieval-style culture at best, Warmachine factions are much more advanced and feature more Age of Sail or Victorian styled cultures while Hordes factions seem to mostly be Roman Empire or Renaissance styled cultures. Everything is more advanced than you'd expect.
That's also why some people forget that it's still mostly fantasy, though a different flavor than medieval fantasy.

>>51677552
>>51677235
Oh okay.

Wait, what are Hobgoblins? In games that I know, Hobgoblins are just bigger goblins, is there a mythos I don't know about?

>>51678075
Usually bigger and with a militaristic society. Very disciplined and equally unpleasant. You can probably see the similarities.

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Who are the top 3 Legion casters in MK3?

>>51678176
Probably Vayl2, Lylyth3 and Abby2. Although Thags1, Fyanna2and a smattering of other casters are competitive as well.

I think after painting key stuff for 4 75 points lists in a row, I've gotten sick of painting for a while.

Which is dumb, because I still have so much to paint.

>>51676351
>Why is grandma trying to be sexy?
because she's still got it where it counts?

>>51677552
I don't think skorne is like hobgoblins at all. Maybe a bit more like dark elves honestly.

Blighted are just mutant of elves than dark elves.

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>>51676119
It's okay denial-anon

>Wahhhh it's not a directly worded letter of hatred towards a previous employer and it's not addressed directly to /tg/!

>>51680954
Sounds really salty. Oh wait. That kind of stuff happens all the time everywhere.

>>51681145
>it's impossible this company is shitty. It's impossible they withheld bonuses and did a pay freeze. It's impossible!

Face it Wilson your company is a shit

>>51681158
And I'm a space alien from Mars. It's not impossible, so it's true.

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>>51681193

>>51681193
Are you a newtype who can sense things?

I realize it's not very good but I have all these exemplars and want to use them. The Exemplar theme might make them nice. Any caster that would run them better?


Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


Bunker - Steamroller Objective

Vice Scrutator Vindictus - WJ: +29
- Hierophant - PC: 3
- Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)

Wrack - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 4

Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
- Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5
Exemplar Errants - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4

>>51680954
>Dude decides to go solo -> the company is going under!

In other news, Blizzard is on its way out because Chris Metzen retired.

I'm using Gunnbjorn, and am wondering which is going to end up helping me more, a Blitzer or Dozer and Smigg. I feel like Dozer benefits more from being in a list with Gunny, and his model is really cool. The Blitzer is two less points, though.

>>51683057
>Chris Metzen retired.
Really?

OH THANK FUCKING GOD

Oh Thank

>>51683057

For real.

Don't get me wrong, maybe some shit is up with PP but, honestly, the last few months have been pretty good. Regular releases, actual feedback and actual appropriate responses to player feedback.

If anything, it feels like there is an attempt to restructure stuff to work better. So I don't know. Maybe the company is a little tight right now but they seem to be doing the right thing at the moment. I.E. making the product better. So I don't know what all the doomsaying is about except because people are pissy little People magazine reading bitches who want to invent gossip.

Motherfuckers, address the product. Stop trying to invent weird conspiracies or melodrama about the people creating it. It's getting like fucking Highschool with you people.

>>51683593
They actually do very different jobs. I like the blitzer, but Dozer really is more like a bomber than a blitzer.

>>51680951
>Blighted are just mutant of elves
This is what makes them dark elves. In most fantasy setting dark elves are elves who embrace some dark patron or god either by choice or by being captured and forced/corrupted. Blighted nyss fit this stereotype perfectly.

Skorne were originally based off of hobgoblins for the 3.5 DnD conversion and the amount of similarities between 3.5e hobgoblins and the skorne is staggering. From sharing certain physical characteristics with the related races (gobbers/goblins) to living in a pragmatic warlike society that practices ancestor worship skorne fit the hobgoblin mold to a T.

So why does Legion seem weak right now? They have access to good infantry even if their beasts seem a touch overcosted.

Suggestions?

Theme: Storm Division
0 / 2 Free Cards 48 / 75 Army


Major Beth Maddox - WJ: +30
- Brickhouse - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)

Major Katherine Laddermore - PC: 8

Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20


THEME: Storm Division

>>51689309
Take a free Squire and a free Junior. Give a Firefly to the latter. Remove Brickhouse and add good jacks like Centurions or Stormclads. Then season to taste. I personally would take a unit of Stormblades with a Gunner and get a free UA for filling up the next 20p.

>>51689056
Having expensive beasts is a big deal when the current meta favours beast/jack-heavy lists, because it quite simply means that you'll almost always be fielding less boxes than your opponent. Legion is just somewhat lacking the tools to compete at the top tier consistently. A few casters can manage, but overall they just have a harder time than others right now (which is true for most of Hordes, actually).

The last time I played against Legion, I lost three heavies turn 2 against 19" threat ranges.

Did something happen to them in the january errata?

since I'm the only CoC guy at my LGS, I offered to help my local steamroller team figure out how to deal with Convergence in the local tournament coming up.

my only problem is that since I've only started playing in the last six months, I have no idea how to play Steamroller. Can y'all give me a crash course on the format?

>>51690376
Not really. They were always good in MkIII, they just stopped being broken and some vocal Legion players couldn't cope with that.

They used to ignore half of the rules. Difficult terrain? Pathfinder on everything! Forests, clouds, stealth, concealment, cover? Eyeless sight on everything! Flight on half of those things. Shepherds to manage fury like other factions could not.

>>51689620
It's almost as if the hordes factions need more models to help manage their fury. More fury management if you will.

But seriously though, nerfing beasts, fury management, and buffing warjacks all at the same time was a pretty stupid move imo.

>>51691615
It's almost as if Warjacks don't have fury at all while Fury remains the dominant resource type.

It's almost as if fury management Models manage your fury as opposed to making it inconsequntial.

Really joggins you noggins.

>>51690747
You whiners always piss and moan about how broken Mk2 legion was because "Boo-hoo-hoo how can I beat an army that doesn't use the rules!" When the fact of the matter was that only a few beasts in the stable had pathfinder and while eyeless sight was prevalent, it wasn't on any of our troops (pathfinder was really rare on troops too).

This made sense because Legion was a glass cannon hit and run skirmish faction. Any yeah, we were a little overturned, no denying the truth and all that. But Legion could never do attrition very well and piece trades could cripple us because of how expensive our beasts were.

In Mk3 Legion saw it's glass cannon army lose speed, durability, and threat range all while going even further up in cost. This is before you realize that changes to the faction's troops seem to suggest that PP wants Legion feilding troops in a meta that is decidedly anti-troop.

If you can't beat your local legion player ~60% or more of the time and you play anything other than Trolls, you're just bad at the game.

>>51691740
Christ, are you dense?

>Warmachine is shitting on hordes in general and has been since Mk3 started.
>Hordes factions saw nerfs to beast costs, fury management, threat ranges, and damage output across the board.
>Warjacks get a huge efficiency buff without sacrificing anything for it.

Yes, I would like to see ONE of the plethora of warbeast nerfs somewhat undone to see how that brings beasts in line with warjacks.

>>51690567
You can download the scenarios for free.

8 scenarios, that will be randomly generated by the TO. No terrain with 6" of a table edge, or within 3" of other terrain and min. 6 terrain objects.

Some scenarios have a killbox which means that if your caster is within 14" of a table edge after scoring starts (2nd players second turn) you give up two points.

Points you score in the tournament go scenario points > kill points > strength of schedule (how well your opponents do). So you want to focus on scoring scenario points over killing stuff generally.

>>51692025
It's SoS > Scenario Points > Kill Points

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>>51691983
>and yet circle keeps being the top faction despite TWO errata

>>51692378
They were the fast guys who weren't nerfed as hard as legion. It makes sense. Their mobility is just cheaper than their competetors among hordes factions.

Against warmachine factions though, their high mobility, and the benefits of fury over focus come through harder than most warmahordes matchups, letting them still fight on even footing against warmachine.

Course maybe im just some asshole bumping a thread.

>>51691850
>When the fact of the matter was that only a few beasts in the stable had pathfinder and while eyeless sight was prevalent

Are you fucking high?

Let's see, looking through just the Legion Armybook of Mk2.

There are a total of 14 beasts in the book.

Of those, only 3 of them(Stinger, Protector, and Typhon) did not have some access to Pathfinder or Flight, which is basically the same thing.

And yea, your troops sucked. That's why no one played them.

>>51693041

There were a few good Legion troops in MK2, but most of them didn't really survive the transition into MK3.

Hex Hunters were solid enough, Legionnaires were cheap tarpits that filled Spawning Vessels and worked in Machinations of Shadow, SV's were great when Shredders were still worth it, and Warspears became pretty good after their UA and even better after Blightbringer.

I think the only infantry that was worth it in both editions were the Raptors.

>>51691983
>Warmachine is shitting on hordes in general and has been since Mk3 started.
But didn't Warmachine already do that in mk2? From what I've seen most tournaments had higher numbers of Warmachine than Hordes even back then

>>51691850
I play Trolls and I was still able to beat Legion in MkII from time to time.

>>51693200
That was cryx and cygnar. The rest of warmachine was skorne tier.

>>51694136
Winterguard Death Stars were a thing back then too, you know. They didn't dominate the meta, but they did place regularly.

They didn't place regularly because they were good, the placed because Butcher3 carried filler to wins.

But that's just because Butcher3 was retarded. The rest of Khador was straight trash.

>>51694496
Why do khadorfags have such a short memory? Do they really think they are fooling anyone by pretending that pre-gargossal wgds and mdow weren't top-tier? Or claws of the dragon? Or iron flesh kayazy?

>>51695089
Because pre-colossal was 18 years ago and DEF skew was already shit by the time Battle Engines released.

Pretty dead in here.

Hey, so I've got the cryx box. If I downgrade the banes to be min + UA, what can I do with those 7 points? Would a second chicken be useful? It came with two ripjaws and the list uses one.

>>51699081
By the way, this is the list I'm using right now, after adding a battlebox to it:


(Asphyxious 3) Asphyxious the Hellbringer [+24]
- Vociferon
- Slayer [10]
- Cankerworm [9]
- Inflictor [13]
- Inflictor [13]
- Reaper [13]
- Deathripper [6]
Bane Warriors (max) [17]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard [6]
Darragh Wrathe [9]
Sea Dog Deck Gun [3]

The deck gun is there because I don't have any solos yet. So dropping that and the 4 banes would give me 10 points to work with.

>>51693200
Hordes had the better "F"mechanics, but Warmachine had the better casters and combos as MKI and II tournaments usually showed.Yet, for some reason, P saw fit to make Warmachine's "F" mechanics better with no consideration to fixing Hordes locks and units. Add to that, they nerfed most Fury management. Fury scared new players, that was it, but that seems to be how PP rolls now.

>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [6]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

How's it looking, senpaitachi? The Karax go in first with Defender's Ward sitting at 16/23 against charges (ty Agonizer), then when they get whittled down there's a 15/24 brick sat behind them that hit like trucks. I'm trying to stop being salty and play more infantry. Help me /tg/.

>>51699254
I always prefer taking 1 PGMT and 1 void spirit instead of 2 PGMT. Having an incorporeal model is super useful.

>>51699291
Honestly I've been thinking about that, but using a Feralgeist as a 2 point way to ask the question of whether they can deal with it. Void Spirits feel like they never get anything relevant done ever. The PGMTs are mainly to deal with the Dawnguard Sentinels that are frequently fielded at my LGS. I could always drop one for a Feralgeist and make the PGBHs max.

>>51699310
What about a feralgeist and swamp gobbers?

>>51699330
That's probably better. I do love me some Gobbers.

>>51699356
Infact, I had an extra point spare so the Feralgeist can be a Gremlin Swarm. Bigger base means taking up more space on the table :^)

>>51699396
It's better than that, it has stealth.

A lot of things can get magic weapons or ignore stealth. Usually not both.

>>51695152
>Because pre-colossal was 18 years ago
Bro, I know it feels like it's been forever, but it was only about 4.5 years ago.

>>51699418
Def skew was dead by Wrath, meaning it had about a year of being useful and then 5 years of being trash.

I started playing warmachine after Wrath, which means I have never once in my career seen kayazy assassins on the table.

>>51693041
>Of those, only 3 of them(Stinger, Protector, and Typhon) did not have some access to Pathfinder or Flight, which is basically the same thing.
Dude, now you're just reaching because you lost the argument.

1) Pathfinder and flight are not the same thing. Flight is a more powerful, more expensive utility that enables drawing line of sight and charging through any and all obstacles and troops. Beasts with flight tend to be both more expensive and more fragile than beasts without and in Legion, flying beasts do less damage than their grounded counterparts.

2) You can't include animi that give out pathfinder and/or flight in your count because it greatly skews the numbers. If I take Absylonia everything has some access to reach, that doesn't mean all Legion beasts have reach.

3) At the end of Mk2 (the time when Legion was dominating) they had 23 beasts. Of these 13 did not have access to pathfinder.

The original claim was that Pathfinder was on everything. It was not true.

>>51699688
Dude, don't be a pedantic ass.

Flight is pathfinder +.

If you don't count that as pathfinder, you are idiotic as Soles.

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I've heard on /tg/ a good deal of the power gap between warmachine and hordes comes from cheap powerful heavies in warma and not in hordes.
Ironclad, Juggernaut, Slayer, and Crusader are all baller 12 pt or less jacks that can do work.

Trollbloods has no 12 pt heavy or even stand in light really (axer or some shit).
Circle has the leaping satyre and the ramming satyre.
Skorne has Rhinodon.
Legion has Neraph.

Where do you feel is the powergap between the former and latter models? Do you feel it is in raw damage potential, or some other inequity?

I was think about this, and was curious what you thought.
>pic related. Its my thinking face.

>>51702156
The warmachine budget heavies beat the hordes ones in both damage and in durability. And in khador's case, MAT. And the budget hordes heavies tend to have shit animi so it's not like that's much of a factor.

>>51702185
How do the expensive beast compare to the expensive jacks?

Anyone have a pdf of the troll command book yet?

>>51702375
That is a whole nother can of worms but based on my analysis, (Khador) expensive jacks are generally cute and can work but replaced with their weight in juggernauts is almost always a better call unless you have a plan.

Meanwhile, lynchpin heavies are a hallmark of most hordes armys. Gladiator, mauler, warpwolf.....legion.....guy.....

So im starting a Journeyman soon and I was hoping to get some advice on a jack heavy list.

Week one: Kozlov Battle Box
Week two:add marauder
Week three: Add Juggernaut and min battle mechaniks
Week four:Karchev caster switch, add devistator and kodiak
Week five: Add second Kodiak
Week six: add a third Juggernaut

>>51702453

>.....legion.....guy.....

Seems to be Carnivean these days, though Scythean is probably a better choice if you feel like assassinating high Def casters.

Poor Ravagore doesn't seem to be doing so well these days, but all my chassis are magnetized so I don't really give a shit.

>>51702156
>Where do you feel is the powergap between the former and latter models? Do you feel it is in raw damage potential, or some other inequity?

Basically it's the amount of work that the points can do. Rhinodons, Archidons, Neraphs, and all satyrs are niche models. They aren't necessarily bad, but they have a role to fill and do very little outside that role. Budget jacks tend to be more general purpose and can fill a selections of roles.

Basically, in Hordes you have a few general models you pay through the nose for and some cheaper, weaker models that can fill a specific niche for your army; while in Warmachine you can build around a niche by taking an expensive, durable model to fill the niche well and then supporting it with a good core of cheap, reliable and simple 'jacks.

>>51699254
I'm generally not a fan of having an entire list that's slow as fuck. You've got a defensive unit in the Karax, so why not take some Ferox instead of the Cetrati? Also not sure you need the Bronzeback as Xerxis has no trouble cracking armor anyway.

>>51702461
Sure. Can't see why that wouldn't work.

>>51702721

>Poor Ravagore doesn't seem to be doing so well these days

I don't really see why honestly. Ravagor is basically the same as MK2 except his AoE got bigger and his animus is slightly worse.

I guess because infantry is less prevalent? Ravagor still seems pretty good though.

>>51704074
Probably because Lylyth2 is no longer cancer.

>>51702721
I wanted to say Carnivean, I wanna buy one for my friend as a present, that guy is baller, but he is so slow and so expensive in points that I can't really see him as a workhorse.

Ravagore certainly in ranged lists but who picked legion for ranged superiority?

>>51702953
Well put, though I'd argue the Rhinodon and Neraph aren't all that niche. Rhinodon needs buffs, but cranks out plenty of attacks, (more than most jacks) and neraph can do some really hilarious things with his throw and his beat back. But it is certainly jank before a Crusader or Juggernaut.

Archidon is hella niche, though he is so darn cool.

>>51702461
Thats pretty much all melee right? Your list has one plan but it does that plan well, and most of your jacks will probably get there unless the enemy has pretty specific tech.

There just isn't much to be done about large numbers of cheap juggernaut chassis. It just pounds their buttholes all the way in. Real deep. With little hope and a thoroughly bitten pillow. Unless of course they kill the caster.

>>51704381
>Rhinodon needs buffs.

I meant a buff cast on him. As in his P+S is a total joke stool unless you buff it.

Not saying he necessarily needs more after the great skorne errata.

>>51704381
>Archidon is hella niche
I'm having trouble justifying not putting two in every list. They get so much work done right now and most things that can relyably kill them trade down against them. You just have to make sure they don't get shot to death.

>>51704396
What is his p+s?

>>51704551
2x Rng 1, PS 14, Open Fist
1x Rng 2, PS 15, *Attack Thresher, Crit: Knockdown

All at Mat 6 with 3 Fury

>>51704551
17/16/16 with Enrage. Sadly it only has reach on the first initial.

But with a damage buff (say, Ignite) it can reliably kill or cripple a heavy. For example it does ~34 damage to a Khador heavy, which will usually leave it on 1 system.

So I could see them under Xerxis2. If you're feating anyway, you might aswell throw your 12p beast onto something your enemy holds dear and trade up that way.

>>51704728
>earthborn is 15 points

Rhinodon needs +1ARM and locker as an animus.

>>51705909
All it needs is a prettier model.

>>51705944
Still prettier than the inbred elephants. Bronzeback is dandy but the rest is just horrible.

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>>51702461
Grab yourself a Widowmaker Marksman. He is amazing for triggering Road to War.

>>51706277
Well that's just your opinion man. I like our blocky elephant monsters.

New thread when

>>51706596
When you make it. I did it last time so it your turn. I'd do it if I could fine that Despoiler image that skreeeonkAnon made a while ago of him surfing.

>>51706619
>>51706654 done.

>>51706596
>>51706619
We also don't really need a new thread before we get to page 11.

>>51705944
Really? The model used to be the only thing I liked about the Rhinodon. Actually really enjoyed painting that guy up.

I think he's OK now for his points. The extra ARM puts him at a point where trying to tank with Spiny Growth actually has uses, and his offensive capabilities are now interesting, if not amazing. Bottom line is the Rhino isn't incredible, but Skorne has a lot of offensive buffs, and a reasonably fast reach heavy with three initials does a lot of work with some buffs.