Revamping Yeenoghu

For the curious, playable Gnoll stats appeared in these publications:

The Orcs of Thar (1st Edition (Basic D&D?))
The Complete Book of Humanoids (AD&D 2e)
Monster Manual 1 (3e)
Forgotten Realms - Unapproachable East (3e)
Savage Species (3e)
Dragon Magazine #367: Playing Gnolls (4e)

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>>51615457
Since you mentioned /d/ do your female gnolls have pseudo-peni?

>>51615608
Eh, not necessarily. I have wondered if maybe the "Yeenoghu of Excess" interpretation might not justify him either be the literal mother of the gnoll race, or at least sporting man-tits for the same reason the Egyptian god Hapi did (symbol of his nature as a power of fertility and fecundity), but never really settled on it.

I have made gnolls into a minor fiendish race (roughly the same "power level" as tieflings), so you can technically summon and bind them through spells the way you can normal demons, though.

Yeenoghu is one of my favourite Demon Lords.

I actually like the aspect as a beast of butchery. He's also confusion and famine. Yeenoghu is the cruel hyena-god of those hot dry African days, with thin children with distended bellies from starvation. The gnolls, being hyenas, cackle and laugh in this cruelty. Those they leave in their wake sometimes trail after their bands, feeding on the scraps of the dead to become ghouls, or in turn being eaten to create more Gnolls.

Yeenoghu is associated with hyenas, gnolls, ghouls, ghasts, werehyenas, witches (hyenas akin to black cats), confusion, treachery, stupidity, cannibalism, and thieves (children born as a hyena cries)

Ernest Hemingway summed it up best for me:

"Fisi, the hyena, hermaphroditic self-eating devourer of the dead, trailer of calving cows, ham-stringer, potential biter-off of your face at night while you slept, sad yowler, camp-follower, stinking, foul, with jaws that crack the bones the lion leaves, belly dragging, loping away on the brown plain . . . "

>>51615457

I may be mistaken, but isn't Grazzt the demon lord of excess?

>>51616039
Would you put it past two demonlords to both claim the same thing and constantly try to kill each other to prove they are the real deal?

>>51616085

If you're the DM, you can do whatever you want. Grazzt seemed pretty laid back to me though. Except for the whole fucking-people-to-death thing.

>>51616085
I think that dilutes the narrative effectiveness for both.

>>51616085
>>51616312

Something like Baphomet and Yeenoghu, who both deal with beasts, don't dilute one another because they use different beasts, and they have different approaches, and different allies.

Baphomet focuses around using beasts to end civilization, where Yeenoghu uses hyenas and gnolls to feed on and confuse civilization. Baphomet tends to use corrupted domestic animals, like goats and cows/bulls. Yeenoghu uses the wild hyenas. Cults of Baphomet are like weird bestiality cults hidden in labyrinthine cities. Cults of Yeenoghu are roaming cannibals and witches.

>>51615457
I'd be fine with it, maybe play it up as more psychotic and manic though

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>>51615457
Were you looking to keep Yeenoghu as an evil deity, turn them more into a multifaceted divine (even Bhaal - Lord of Murder, who went around Abeir-Toril fucking everything with a pulse with the intent of ritually sacrificing all the ensuing offspring to cheat his foretold death - was portrayed at times to be something other than a cockwaffle), or something else?

Either way, when it comes to Hyena mythology the specifics vary from region to region. In some, hyenas have been associated with blacksmithing, healing, woodcutting, love, fertility, and even bringing the sun and its light / warmth to Earth as boons. In others, hyenas are associated with thievery and graverobbing, vampirism and malicious hypnotism (in both "Look into my eyes" and pheromone flavors), and general matters of cravenness.

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I play a Gnoll Bard in 5e rn, it's fun. I use this for his playable race without the bonus feats

>>51621091
>Bard
Meant Barb, sorry about that

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>>51615595
Don't forget Races of the Wild for 3.5.

For my world I have Gnolls as a playable race of hyena people. Their pantheon consists of a multitude of gods and spirits, with a heavy emphasis on ancestor worship.
They worship She-is-Fiercer and the others of First Tribe, while the more degenerate and evil groups worship the Nameless, the former mate of She is Fiercer whose name was stripped from him and then exiled after he caused the death of First-Child. He was eventually found and wooed by the monstrous Lamashtu, and eventually had a single son named Yeenoghu, a psychotic perpetually starving monster who delights in eating the flesh of sapients.

He eventually gained the title of Beast of Butchery for his savage and bloody way of tearing apart his victims and eating them while they still lived. As a demon lord and partial god, he represents bloodlust and cannibalism. Its is very common for Yeenoghu worshippers to be suffering from what we know as prion diseases, which they call the Blessing of Yeenoghu.

Yeenoghu, the Nameless, and Lamashtu represent the three evil aspects of Gnoll religion. Gluttony and Wrath, Pride and Envy, Lust and Greed. Watches-the-Birds is a minor demigod and tales of his laziness and lack of work are used in morality tales against being slothful.

Honestly wouldn't the Yeenoghu problem be solved by giving the Gnolls a wider pantheon?
Like as it is all they've got to pray to are this demon, so of course they go all out on the destructive evil side of things.

If Yeenoghu had actual competition for their prayers he'd have to dial it back on the whole EVIL thing to appeal to worshippers.

>>51621781

I'm firmly in the camp that Gnolls are creations of Yeenoghu, they are wicked and have no gods than he. I like them closer to fiends than beastmen.

That said I do like the ideas behind Lamashtu and i'll probably user her as a Demon Lord in my campaign too.

Now im brainstorming a weird pantheon of a hot and dry dark continent. Yeenoghu, Lamashtu, and Pazuzu.

>>51620530
Honestly, I wouldn't mind a more multifaceted divinity approach to Yeenoghu. Yeah, that kind of takes him a little out of the Demon Prince mold, but what the hell.

I mean, he's already a better patron deity than Gorellik was, just with the fluff we have.

Seriously, does anyone even remember anything about Gorellik?

>>51621895
Yeah, that's a thing with gnolls. Even orcs have traditionally had a whole bevvy of gods to worship; Gruumsh, Luthic, etc. Gnolls, traditionally, only have Yeenoghu or Gorellik. And he's called out as having degenerated so far he's probably going to die due to lack of worship soon, and this was back in AD&D.

>>51621895
>>51624060
Though I've never had a chance to use it in a game, I've always seen gnolls as using a mix of Yeenoghu worship, (a sorta animistic take on) demon worship, and/or ancestor worship depending on the tribe/alignment, basically instead of a pantheon like most races, for the most part gnolls are worshipers of (usually) evil "spirits" with Yeenoghu being the head honcho (or at least that's what his clerics insist)

Though I've also liked the idea of semicivilied gnolls that have moved into civilized lands/cities following a hodgepodge mix of old tribal beliefs with many of the civilized gods taking the place of the spirits/demons they used to worship and their teachings and morals interpreted through the lens of their old cultural beliefs

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>>51624060
Hey, even Demon Princes have hobbies.

>>51624225
Back in AD&D 2E, when Gnolls weren't hyper-aggressive fuzzy locusts, there were a couple of examples of "semi-civilized" gnolls. Baldur's Gate has the most prominent example, the Gnolls having (presumably built and) occupied a fortification for themselves, but there was also the Al-Qadim setting (which didn't do anything officially with Gnolls but left the option on the table alongside a few other races like Ogres and Lizardmen).

Which makes for the rather humorous mental image of a Zakharan Gnoll moving up to Faerun for adventure and not understanding why every time they enter a town mothers rush their children indoors and the local militia presents their weapons rather haphazardly for inspection.

>>51621781
Are those Digger references?

>>51624315
Savage Coast, one of the unpublished Mystara supplements (it was available as rtfs on the tsr website forever and is probably still in the old stuff on Wizards' site) had the lupins, who were basically 17th century french dog people and somewhat strongly hinted to be more civilized gnolls.

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>>51615457
I wanted to also briefly use Yeenoghu and Gnolls as a minor force, "half-an-arc" type enemy. A Flind mini-bad with a fierce magical weapon who's imposing on the big city.

If I wanted to get more information on who Yeenoghy feuds with in terms of enemy Demon lords or Archdevils?

Who could I have show up to offer the party the "easy way out" by allowing some of their minions into the material plane to match against Yeenoghu?

>>51624392
Sadly all the links seem to be dead

>>51624920
Well, 4e had a Demonomicon of Iggwilv article dedicated to Yeenoghu, and I'm not 100% sure of how this matches up with past lore, but let me see...

Traditionally, Yeenoghu's biggest rivalry is with Baphomet. The two absolutely hate each other, and they're always out to destroy one another.

In 1st and 2nd edition, Yeenoghu was the master of Doresain, Demon Prince of Ghouls, but he lost control of him in 3rd edition. This means he's constantly trying to browbeat Doresain back into submission, and could be used as evidence for a feud with Orcus.

According to 4e, Yeenoghu constantly makes pacts of allegiance with various lesser or aspirant demon princes, but always betrays (and usually eats) them; princelings that either escaped his betrayal with their life or who're smart enough to realize betraying him first is the best choice may be willing to discretely aid adventurers opposed to the Beast of Butchery.

In 4e, Graz'zt is noted for frequently manipulating Yeenoghu like a pawn when he needs the raw savagery of the Beast for his own ends.

Likewise, 4e states that "none of Yeenoghu's peers trust him, and few respect him".

I'm not sure of any other finer details beyond that in editions past.

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>>51615771
This guy gets it.

Read Hemingway's "The Hyena".

I'm a supporter of a pantheon.

You could have:
Lhamastu, goddess of fecundity and motherhood (in their savage form)
Gorelick, the hunter god, who also governs lycanthropy with were hyenas (and hyenadons/dire hyenas)
Doresain, god of hunger, ghouls, death, and cannibalism. All holy to Gnolls.
And Yeenoghu, lord of war, the butcher, god of slaughter, who created the world by butchering the primordial world. All life is parasites upon the corpse, and only Gnolls are the True People.

>>51625585
Shit

http://www.pandius.com/svge_cst.html

This site has the main subsetting book.

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Here's an interesting take on gnolls for the Pathfinder Third Party setting of Midgard. Incidentally gnolls gained a playable version for PF in Advanced Race Guide. On Golarion they reside within the deserts and warm plains of Casmaron and Garund (notArabia and notAfrica respectively). Near the city of Katapesh is the largest concentration of them, so great are their numbers they have an entire district, Dog Town, as their own. There they make trade as slavers and mercenaries.

>>51622839
Yeenoghu has always been a pretender to that particular aspect. The earliest lore places them as creations of Gorellik, a hyena god of the hunt, who are then stolen by Yeenoghu. And I loath the 5e lore that makes them fiendish monsters with no redeeming qualities. It is a strong break from past lore, and severely limits what can be done with them.

>>51624335
Yes. I love that comic.

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Bump for the demon prince

>>51629223
I wouldn't mind their abyssal heritage if they did something more interesting with it.

Also, the complete change to Flinds and their alignment was crap.

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>>51615457
>oh a gnoll thread how long before pseudo peen is talked aba-oh that was fast.

>>51615457

Have you considered Lamashtu? That's kind of her deal.

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>>51621091
>I play a Gnoll Bard

MY MAN!

>>51630597
I point you towards >>51630102, where they actually did try and do something more interesting with gnolls than they had in the last 3 editions.

Seriously, 4e caught a lot of flak for its crunch, but they really tried to go somewhere new with its fluff, and they came up with a lot of good shit.

>>51632514
>Mentioned all of once

>>51629223
>Yeenoghu has always been a pretender to that particular aspect. The earliest lore places them as creations of Gorellik, a hyena god of the hunt, who are then stolen by Yeenoghu. And I loath the 5e lore that makes them fiendish monsters with no redeeming qualities. It is a strong break from past lore, and severely limits what can be done with them.

I argue that Gorellik is the hyena god yes, but Gnolls are a coruption of the hyena, and not something natural to them. Gorellik is more like an animal totem.

I prefer them as fiendish monsters with no redeeming qualities. It's evocative and telling of the land they're in. It's unforgiving, it's maddening, it's famine.

I don't need shades of grey in my beastmen. I prefer them wicked corruptions of animals than natural things in existence. I like them more as Warhammer Beaastmen or the Broo from Glorantha.

>>51630102
>>51629223
>>51633042

You think it's good shit, I see it as taking the teeth out of the concept.

>>51634033
>All Yeenoghu tribes have dedicated "spirit breakers" that specialize in physically and psychologically torturing prisoners, with the aim of creating docile slaves. Those who can't be broken are eaten in front of the others for added torture, and those who are broken are eaten eventually anyway.
>They will sometimes allow prisoners to escape just to be able to relish hunting them down again, using mimicry to misdirect and trap, tricking prisoners into thinking there's hope just to savor breaking them again
>that entire opening quote

Less teeth, yet sharper bite I would say

>>51634224
Yeenoghu already has a precedence with slaves. His vessel/throne on his Abyssal Plane is dragged by legions of slaves.

So that can still be there without taking the teeth out of Yeenoghu.

>>51634323
It's the detail that enhances it

>>51615457
See if you can hire Xiombarg's Storyteller to write you gnolls IMO.

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>>51615457
>Demon and God
If we are talking Dungeons and Dragons I feel it's important to point their is vast difference between Gods and Demon Lords BUT Yeenoghu lack his Abyssal buddy Orcus are the two that straddle the line Between Divinity and Demonhood.

One of the big things on the major scope is that Yeenoghu (And Orcus) gain many many (but not all) of the divine perks that Gods gain, and aren't shackled to the consequences and responsibilities that God are.

>Excess and Slaanesh
As constructively as I can say this: I feel you are are stressing too far for something that doesn't make sense
Or you just want Lamashtu IN the D&D world (Which you do not need to wish for because Dragon Magazine gave us Piazo's Lamashtu prior to Pathfinder's Launch),
Or you are not very well read on the abyss. We already HAVE a Slaanesh in D&D: Malcanthet, fuck we have FOUR Lady Lynkhab, Shami-Amourae, Xinivrae. At least two of them are indistinguishable from the 40k god.

>The previous Gnoll God
An aspect I love to focus on Yeenoghu is where he got his worshippers from. He stole them, or drained them it's a little unclear. While Yeenoghu has be around since time primordial, the Gnoll's had a previous god Gorelick. A God of Savagery and the Hunt.
Under previous management it's been suggested we even had more or less good gnolls that honored the hunt and good hunters above all else.
You-know-who jealous soley because Gnolled visually looked the same as him stole Gorelick's power, and plunged his realm into the abyss.

>>51635080
>Cont.
If I were doing some revamping on Yeenoghu's protfoilo, Savagery, Blood, and the Hunt, yes.
But I'd added in some call backs to how he stole his power in the first place, like his High Shaman's are taught to greedily want more and over take other clans.

I'd make it so one could not take an object from a favored of Yeenoghu. All stolen item magically end up back in the favored's possession and one most challenge and fight the favored to show who is strong enough to own the Mcguffin.
Yeenoghu's clerics unlike other demonic cults, are able to channel his power with easy without requiring the over complicated ceremonies that most demon lords need.

Yeenoghu's Presence and power is a corrupting influence on Gnoll's turning many of them evil and demonic. Not that you couldn't have a good gnoll, but the Savage Lord's power is very enticing.

>>51635195
Going to mostly just focus on the last line, but in other words (re:Very enticing and corrupting influence) if Yeenoghu were a Warlock pact Gnolls would be put on the shortlist for approval. Furthermore, similar to how people have been recorded getting "caught up" in the moment / situation in large groups, the same happens with Gnolls, but those dedicated to Yeenoghu require much fewer present (possibly even well below the normal threshold) to enthrall their kin in the same effect and can leave a stain that doesn't fade even once the Yeenoghu dedicant is gone?

>>51635080
>If we are talking Dungeons and Dragons I feel it's important to point their is vast difference between Gods and Demon Lords BUT Yeenoghu lack his Abyssal buddy Orcus are the two that straddle the line Between Divinity and Demonhood.

I prefer to skirt that line as much as possible. Far more interesting that way.

>>51622839
This isn't true though, they have their own deity in Gorellik or however you spell it. But his divinity has suffered encroachment from Yeenoghu.

>>51636230
>This isn't true though, they have their own deity in Gorellik or however you spell it. But his divinity has suffered encroachment from Yeenoghu.


And I find that dumb. Gorellik is a hyena-god. Gnolls are corrupted hyenas. Why would Gorellik approve of them when they're corruptions of his chosen?

>>51636493
Gnolls *weren't* explicitly corrupted hyenas in the first place *until* 4e presented that as *one* possible origin for them. In AD&D, they were simply a primal tribe of humanoid hyenas who fell under the sway of a demon prince due to the disinterest shown them by their own patron deity, similar to the scenario with the lizardfolk, and that continued into 3e.

>>51636493
Gorellik is the chief god and ancient god of the gnolls, http://mimir.planewalker.com/encyclopedia/gorellik
Apart from gnolls, he's also the god of hunting, hyenas and hyaenodons.

Not sure why you seem to think he's only a god of hyenas.

>>51636614
>>51636614

Look. I don't care about canon.

I prefer my beastmen unnatural and wrong.

I prefer Gorellik as a hyena animal-god.

I prefer Yeenoghu being a corruptor, making hyenas into gnolls.

I prefer my gnolls to have a fiendish origin.

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these will always be my alternate gnoll deities in games I run.

>>51636675
You are in your right to prefer your own special headcannon, but to call the fact that Gorellik is a gnoll god dumb is fucking retarded.

>>51636724
>but to call the fact that Gorellik is a gnoll god dumb is fucking retarded.

Not if I think it is, and i'm going to speak my mind.

>>51636675
Gorellik is an abyssal power you dumb piece of shit. Gnolls are already fiendish in origin.

>>51636752
No one fucking cares what you think. Stay autistic.

>>51636768
>thread about peoples thoughts on Yeenoghu and gnolls
>gets mad when someone expresses their opinion on them

>>51636752
To casually dismiss it out of hand just goes to show what a complete shit you are. Stay mad autistic retard.

>>51636755
>Gorellik is an abyssal power

That's just as dumb. I think Gorellik belongs in the Beastlands or Beastlands equivalent.

>>51636820
See >>51636824
Stay mad you autistic fuck.

>>51636824
>To casually dismiss it out of hand just goes to show what a complete shit you are.

Why would I consider ideas I think are stupid?

>>51636855
>what you think is of course what the majority thinks.

>>51636910
No?

It actually seems that you're hostile to ideas that aren't what the majority thinks, or what it already a preconceived canon?

In a thread about revamping something, that's incredibly stupid to do.

>>51636930
You could phrase things in less of an overbearing autistic way. You can do this. I believe you can.

>>51636942
I'm not going to mince words for you.

>>51635793
>Far more interesting that way.
Beg to differ. When everything is the same it is boring, but to each his own Anon.

>>51636984
>When everything is the same it is boring
I agree there but I don't see how the line between God and Demon being skirted denotes that?

I don't see how something like Lolth is anything like Yeenoghu.

>>51636954
Your idea is shit though, you need to come up with a less retarded one.

>>51637035
>Your idea is shit though, you need to come up with a less retarded one.

Well that's your opinion which I disagree with. Why do you think it's shit?

>>51637058
It's been done so much it's become cliche.

>>51637096
I never claimed it was original.

Again, it's my preference for Beastmen to be closer to Warhammer Fantasy or the Broo, then a mere anthropomorphic version of animals. I find this kind of depiction is more resonant with mythology, which is something I like to emphasize in my games.

>>51637134
You're giving too little credit to what the designers already intended them to be, and claiming that it hasn't been done before. That's retarded.

>>51637163
>You're giving too little credit to what the designers already intended them to be,

No? I've read it and while I like some things, I don't like others. 4e is the closest to what I do like, and find Gnolls rather ineffectual before then.

>and claiming that it hasn't been done before

No i'm not? I am claiming that it's becoming an unpopular depiction because people are obsessed with this shades of grey mentality for their games.

I am rejecting this mentality in my games.

>>51637241
>No? I've read it and while I like some things, I don't like others. 4e is the closest to what I do like, and find Gnolls rather ineffectual before then.
That's bullshit.

>No i'm not? I am claiming that it's becoming an unpopular depiction because people are obsessed with this shades of grey mentality for their games.

>I am rejecting this mentality in my games.
This is also bullshit. Gnolls in their previous depictions were unquestionably evil, as per Gorellik who is a CE abyssal power.

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>>51615457
I actually think I prefer the hyper-violent gnolls of 5e.

>>51637325
>This is also bullshit. Gnolls in their previous depictions were unquestionably evil, as per Gorellik who is a CE abyssal power.

No it's not bullshit. They may have been evil, but they were ineffectual evil.

They now have a very evocative place.

>>51637346
How were they ineffectually evil? Because you thought so and said so aren't reasons, they're bullshit.

>>51637450
Well in AD&D 1e, they're just another sort of orc with dumb art. Yeenoghu, despite being described as one of the most powerful and more feared Demon Lords, looks like a gay dog man. That said the shoosuva and ghuuna were cool.

AD&D 2e they've gotten a bit better with a distinct diet of warm-blooded intelligent humanoids, but still nothing that stands out beyond the cool Ecology of the Flind article.

3rd Edition was just more the same again, except the flind which became more brutish.

4th edition ramped it up with it's great variety of gnolls, and the strong fiendish ties to Yeenoghu and demons and death, this has extended into 5th edition.

>>51637615
You're basing off whether they were ineffectual or effectual on art?
Are you a fucking retard?

>>51637748
Nope.

I'm a very visual person. Art does more for me then description most of the time, and the narrative effectiveness of something depends on it's imaginability, which in turn is married to it's art.

>>51637889
You're still a fucking retard. You don't decide on the effectualness of something based on its art if its description says otherwise.
What kind of absolute retard does that?

>>51637937
Not everyone absorbs information and finds attraction and inspiration in the same things as you do.

An absolute retard expects otherwise.

>>51638028
Then your point of them being ineffectual in their previous iterations is irrelevant and based on flawed "reasoning".

>>51638063
I don't see how?

They've been ineffectual in the past to me, and in their current incarnation they aren't.

My reasoning is just as valid as yours, even more valid considering it relates to how they're depicted in my games.

You can see this as shallow or stupid, but at this point I don't care. It's clear we have entirely different creative processes.

>>51638105
Because you see them already being what you think they are based on your retarded logic, when objectively it's not the case.

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I like gnolls in Eberron. The whole "distant gods/sealed great demons" thing allots them savage bands, but there's also a large conglomeration of them that has agreed to curb their more ravenous instincts and cults to form the greatest pack in history; which is based in Droaam, a wilderness country of monsters and outcasts managed by a hag coven, and they are distributed as mercenaries through the Dragonmarked House Tharask, which is composed of half-orcs, humans, and orcs who are used to finding "tolerant" clients.
I have no good art, so have something that could be a good gnoll head base.

>>51615457
>But there's some actual mythological lore about hyenas in the real world. It's kinda /d/ related, but it made me wonder: would Yeenoghu work as a "Demon Prince of Excess"? A Slaanesh-esque figure who preaches indulgence in all pleasures - carnality, gluttony, sloth, a beast of sin who still enjoys brutal slaughter & butchery, but that's only part of his "portfolio" (excess in combat)? Maybe even throw in some aspects of Lamashtu, his Pathfinder equivalent?

I think concentrating on hunger/gluttony works better with a desire for other carnal pleasures up to and including a desire to consume the lives of others/oneself as a byproduct.

That ties them with scavenger hyenas and ghuls, with which they're commonly associated.

>>51639294
>I think concentrating on hunger/gluttony works better with a desire for other carnal pleasures up to and including a desire to consume the lives of others/oneself as a byproduct.
Y'know, I actually really like that, a focus on metaphorical (and not so metaphorical) devouring of others

>>51639294
>>51639820
I like it, works with their current lore as cannibalistic monsters and as slave taker
And my own idea for a good gnoll based on the old idea of a sin eater

Also it wouldn't surprise me if gnolls like this would have some REALLY nasty things like rituals fueled by or that empower them the caster by consuming souls

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>>51636719
>>51636737
>>51636758
>>51636769
>>51636787
Same here. Guess who Sweetgrass Voice is in my campaign setting? Pazuzu PFs version since he fits really well. I really like mixing Digger lore and D&D lore together, it often mixes quite well.

Hmm, how's this:

Gorelick, lord of Hyenas mated with Lhamashtu, mother of monsters, and birthed Yeenoghu. A monstrous thing half-monster, half-hyena.

He tore himself free from his mother, turned his father into his pet, and fathered the race of Gnolls with his mother.

Yeenoghu, along with his mother, and her lover Pazuzu, taught the gnolls the arts of civilization, such as slavery and necromancy.

In the wastes the gnolls raised city states along the few rivers, enslaving other humanoids to build and labour, as they practised the arcane secrets of their demonic gods (in D&D terms, they were warlocks.)

The cities were much like parodies of mesopotamian civilization. And eventually fell to slave uprisings and invasion by other races, who scattered the gnolls, reducing them to barbarism.

>>51641361
I do wonder how the fall of their empire affected their cultural outlook but other than that great

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>>51641981
I imagine it divided them.

The majority still follow Yeenoghu, hate the lesser races for their "betrayal," and seek to destroy their civilizations in turn, and enslave them once more.

There's Lhamashtu and Pazuzu's broods who tend to skulk in ruined places, trying to reclaim their secrets and forge new demonic pacts.

And you'd end up with Goreliik's packs, even more savage than most, they're ruled by were-hyenadon Ghuuna, and live far out in the wilderness, scorning the civilization which they see as having made them soft and weak.

PC Gnolls could still emerge, although they're more likely to be secretive Lhamashtu witches and warlocks seeking power from the strange-non Gnoll forces of the world; or Goreliik savages seeking to find a new way.

In any case they're still driven by the hunger and violence that is their birthright. A Gnoll would love things like barroom brawls -- although they'd have to have it explained that you're not meant to use weapons or kill your opponents.

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>>51615771

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Lawful Evil Flind dump.

>>51616130
>Except for the whole fucking-people-to-death thing.

...sauce?

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>>51615457
>"I want to play a gnoll because I think they are cool-- but..."
>"Okay, but what?"
>"Well, I don't like that they are just mindless butchers obsessed with killing and eating. I'd like them to be more rounded than that."
>"Fair enough. What did you have in mind?"
>"Well, I was thinking of modeling their god based on Slaanesh."
>"--You just want to make a female furry with a dick, don't you?"
>"W-w-well, n-n-no. N-n-not exactly. It'd be more than just that."
>"But it would include that?"
>"Um, well, it wouldn't come up in the game!"
Every fuckin' time

I like gnolls too, they're cool and all, but I'm willing to bet the reason they are written up as bestial savages more likely to eat a sentient being than fuck it is for exactly that reason.

>>51645230
There's more to hedonism than just fucking anon, especially if you focus more on the "pleasure/empowerment that other's expenses" and both literal and metaphorical gluttony

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>>51645508
>There's more to hedonism than just fucking anon
But would it include that?

>>51641361
Small problem with Lamashtu and Pazuzu as lovers, they absolutely loathe each other in pretty much every bit of lore in both RPGS and the real world. In ancient Mesopotamia Pazuzu amulets were used to ward against Lamashtu and here demons so as to stop her from killing newborns.

>>51645783
Gluttony, domination, revelry
It's about over indulging in pleasure, if they only thing you can enjoy is fucking you live a sad life

>>51645911
Looking up the D&D lore, they were once consorts, until she betrayed him and Pazuzu maimed and imprisoned her.

That could actually be tied into the lore, with it being part of the reason the empire fell, Lhamashtu became Pazuzu's prisoner, and without her fertility, things started to fall apart.

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>>51621781
>gnolls
>ancestor worship

>>51646539
I don't get it

>>51646225
Or she gained minor divinity by killing a god and stealing one his portfolios, thus causing Pazuzu to go apeshit over the power imbalance. This falling out between the demon lord of wind and trickery and the new goddess of monsters could be a religious schism that tore their civilization apart and made them weak when the other nations attacked. Lamashtu retained her new divinity and drove off the demon lord of birds and dotes on her savage son, her profound fecundity replacing the need for civilization. There could elements or hints of incest in this too.

If you wanted to steal a bit of lore from Pathfinder.

>>51646539
Explain. Because ancestor worship is something pretty much every peoples has done and sometimes still do in some capacity or another. And those gnolls are very much not like shitty 5e gnolls and much less of the terrible stereotypes of hyenas that D&D uses.

>>51646539
>>51646586
>>51646596

Hyenas eat their dead, you brain-dead millennials.

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>>51646790
Well duh, how else will their spirit and strength return to the tribe to watch over them. Cannibalism of dead family members is fairly common ritual among many ancestor worshippers.

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>>51646790
>>51646832

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>>51646790
>>51646846

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>>51646790
But Gnolls keep the bones to raise as undead.

And of course it's possible to have anthrophagy and ancestor worship at the same time.
Endocannibalism often has the reason of being a way to remember the deceased and speed their transition to the other world, or to ensure their life force remains amongst their people.

>>51646790
>What is funerary cannibalism
You do realize one of the big reasons for ritual cannibalism is ancestor worship/funerary rites?
Hell, quite a few tribal cultures think the soul CAN'T leave the body without it being eaten
How the fuck would them eating their dead would invalidate ancestor worship?

>it's another "gnolls would be better with more pseudopenis episode"

Yawn. Them as beings of pure gluttony is both more useful and less creepy.

>>51646973
You are literally the second anon to mention it in this thread, and the only other time was complaining about it too

>>51646934
Not to mention the ways it's even found in major religions. Transubstantiation, the eating of Jesus' flesh via a cracker, and drinking his blood via wine is a major tenet of Catholicism. As he was both man and god, they practice a form of ritual cannibalism so as to have his being within them to watch over their souls and bodies.

>>51646973
There has been a maybe two posts, besides yours, about pseudopenis. And you're wrong.

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>>51646973
>pseudopenis has been mentioned 3 times in the thread
>first time was at the beginning of the thread and was only replied to once
>other two times were people complaining about pseudopenis

Damn anon you look pretty stupid for not reading the thread.

>>51646988
>>51646990
>>51646996
>implying that's not what OP was implying with the "it's kinda /d/ related" remark

I know how /tg/ works.

>>51646832
>>51646930
>
>>51646934
>>51646990
I get the feeling gnolls would be on the "eat them to gain their powers" part of cannibalism spectrum, probably with a bit of binding the ancestor spirits to protect ME by taking in some of their flesh thrown in

>>51647026
You're the only one pushing for it now though

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>>51647026
And no one has talked about or even mentioned that aspect, and in fact have shot down his ideas and focused more on the aspects of bloodshed and cannibalism.

>>51647026
OP was talking about the mythological associations of hyenas with sexual deviancy but also sexual potency, which is why they still use striped hyena genitalia & anuses as lucky charms to score sex in Africa today.

Anons? I've actually been trying to get some homebrewed stats for gnolls together for 5e, and I could use some help.

See, I went with the idea of Butcher's Brood ad Hyena's Soul subraces, as I'm using the 4e Playing Gnolls article as a basis and telling Volo's Guide to go fuck itself. Now, that's all well and good, but I got a little ambitious.

See... there's a were-hyena legend in Africa called the Bouda, which is basically a sorcerous hyenathrope. Pathfinder used it as a Gnollish archetype for Witches. So, I thought maybe I could pull off a "Bouda Gnoll" as a mystical necro-warlock inclined strain of gnoll.

Thing is, I did so by making it a gnollish subrace. Do you think this works, or would you go with an entirely separate statblock, like the Flind?

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>>51621091
>racial pack tactics
That is ridiculously overpowered. Sure Kobolds get something like it but they suck without it.

I brewed a simple Gnoll statline for my games.
>+2 Con +1 Str
>Darkvision 60
>Survival proficiency
>bite 1d4
>rampage: Reduce creature to 0 with a melee attack on turn, use bonus action to move 1/2 speed and make a bite.
>Strong stomach: Advantage on saves against ingested poisons, toxins, diseases, etc.
>Speak Common and Abyssal

>>51647376
Seems fine to me.

>>51647578
Huh, not too different from mine. I gave my gnolls +2 Con, Resistance (Poison), Advantage on saves vs poisoned & disease, bite as a d4 piercing unarmed strike, rampage, a "Ghostly Whispers" ribbon (great at mimicing voices), and then subrace.

Butcher's Brood - +1 Strength, free bite attack as a reaction to being attacked 1/turn.

Hyena's Soul - +1 Wis, 35ft base speed, Proficiency in Perception & Survival.

Bouda - +1 Cha, Necrotic Resistance, spell-like abilities (Chill Touch at-will, Arms of Hadar 1/day at 3rd level, Enthrall 1/day at 5th level).

My Flind is basically the core gnoll stats with +1 Str/Dex/Con, Powerful Build, and 2 free weapon proficiencies.

Just out of curiosity, given the references to Lamashtu... in 5e, would you consider Lamashtu, Shub-Niggurath, Abhoth, Ragnorra, and other "dark/corrupted" fertility gods to be a theme you can use to build a Warlock Patron from?

>>51637134
>I find this kind of depiction is more resonant with mythology
If you're talking about real-world mythology then I find that you're a retard who has no idea what you're talking about.
You seem to be conflating warhammer and other vague modern shit in your limited knowledge with mythology.

>>51645783
>>51646145
>"W-w-well, n-n-no. N-n-not exactly. It'd be more than just that."

>>51647791
It's a fair option.

I mean, I could see the spell list of the Magna Mater being something like:
1st Entangle, False Life
2nd Enlarge/Reduce, Web
3rd Bestow Curse, Stinking Cloud
4th Evard's Black Tentacles, Polymorph
5th Contagion, Insect Plague

>>51646790
>this exludes ancestor worship
wew kid, judging by your retardation and leaping to blame "le millennials" I'm guessing you're new and from some place else like /pol/ or reddit, anyway maybe lurk a bit before posting.

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... Nurse Verity remains /tg/'s best gnoll.

>>51648713
She's not a gnoll! She's a flind.

>>51648108
I personally figured these for the bonus spells:

1st Level Spells: Cure Wounds, Entangle
2d Level Spells: Enhance Ability, Spike Growth
3rd Level Spells: Revivify, Plant Growth
4th Level Spells: Blight, Grasping Vine
5th Level Spells: Reincarnate, Contagion

But for the class features... well, I took a shot at it in the link below, but I'm not 100% "sold" on the results. Could really use feedback.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-MEFIyT9jA8dlnomdEUNLIzV3ELhH3FWbcdxb0FSRTY/edit#

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>>51647791
This has a pact Shub-Niggurath, as well as a druid
circle.

>>51647376
>Bouda

That is awesome but frankly suits non-gnoll Yeenoghu worshippers better. The bouda is said to be a thing among foreigners and outsiders, and comes from envy.

Non-gnoll Yeenoghu worshippers can certainly fit this.

>>51647946
I bet you're the type that liked Krynn Minotaurs.

You know, seafaring bull-people instead of the twisted union of a queen and a bull through unnatural compulsion of higher powers, birthing a cannibalistic and cruel bull-man who had to be sealed away in a labyrinth.

I find the myth resonates more for me.

>>51615457
Reminder that of the four species of hyena, only one has a pseudo penis. Striped hyena-based gnolls, for example, would not have dicks on the girls.

>>51652083
How is this relevant at all?

>>51652130
This is a gnoll thread. The pseudo-penis will be on everyone's mind and get brought up a bunch.

>>51652140
I'm not convinced you're not the same anon as the last two times it it was brought up, especially given those to times are also people insisting the thread was about it despite them being the only ones to mention it

>>51652682
Turn on the IP indicators senpai

>>51647376
>>51647757
So, the subrace form of bouda is up here for comparison, but I can't stop thinking about what a whole-new profile version might look. So, I figured I'd slap it together and see what folks thought now it could be compared.

Bouda
Ab ility Score Modifier: +2 Charisma, +1 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Vision: Darkvision
Grave-Robber's Toughness: A bouda has Resistance to Necrotic damage. It also have Advantage on saves against disease and the poisoned condition.
Ripping Jaws: A bouda can choose to Bite as an Unarmed Strike. Doing so causes its attack to inflict 1d4 Piercing damage as a basis.
Black Magician: A bouda can cast Chill Touch with this trait. At 3rd level, it can cast Arms of Hadar as a 1st level spell with this trait once per long rest. At 5th level, it can cast Enthrall as a 2nd level spell with this trait once per long rest. Charisma is the spellcasting ability score for all spells cast with this trait.
Hyenathrope: A bouda has the ability to shapeshift between its own form and that of a hyena. Treat this as per the Druidic Wild Shape ability, except that a bouda can only assume the form of a hyena. A bouda can take hyena form only once, and must then take a long rest before doing so again.

>>51655247
Not that familiar with 5e but I think it looks decent

Question on the gluttonous hedonist idea, what would be a good domain for the clerics?
Or if you go with the warlock idea, pact powers?

>>51616039
I always thought Grazzt's job was to be Arioch if a situation ever called for it.
Pretty much every other dnd demon lord can't be bothered to show up for a civilized conversation without reminding people that they're a freakshow.

>>51633042
I completely agree with that last sent-

Oh, wait. You've got this word 'good' in there. If you got rid of it, I'd agree.
4E did nothing but continue the terrible direction DnD aesthetics were going in through all of 3E.
That's why Pathfinder was equally crap - Paizo was the company responsible for most of those terrible aesthetics in the first place.

>>51657470
Depends a lot on edition. Like, 3.5 had an assload of domains, and Pathfinder ones are, I think still backwards compatible with them?

For 3.5, no reason not to just go straight for the Sin domains - Dragon #323 and then the Spell Compendium had actual domains for Gluttony and Lust (also Avarice, Envy, Pride, Sloth, and Wrath, but Gluttony & Lust are the best fit).

Beyond those, there's the obviousness of the Abyss domain from the Spell Compendium, perhaps the Bestial domain from the Book of Vile Darkness, the Corruption & Temptation domains from the Fiendish Codex 1, the Feast domain from the Eberron Campaign Setting, and the Joy & Pleasure domains from the Book of Exalted Deeds (what is hedonism if not the dark side of both?)

For PF, you've got Chaos (Revelry, Riot and Whimsy subdomains), Charm (Lust), Evil (Cannibalism, Corruption), maybe Glory/Nobility (Hubris), and Liberation (if an evil form thereof).

Finally, in 5e... well, there's not that many Cleric Domains out yet. I figure you might be able to swing a Trickery or Life Cleric, but for that edition you might be better off with Warlock (Fiend or maybe Undying).

>>51615457
I focus purely on the hunger and recast them as demon-cursed with neverending famine.

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>>51649368
>Gnolls of Shub-Niggurath

I'm getting a gun and no amount of telling me "but guns don't exist in the setting" is going to fucking stop me

>>51649368
Yeah, I've caught that before. It's a great pact, but it's a little too diety specific, if you follow me? Shub-Niggurath and Lamashtu both share a fertile niche (no pun intended), I'd like to see a more generalist approach to a warlock serving as witch-priest to something like that.

>>51657694
Please, if anything, they'd probably be *less* sick and twisted than the Lamashtu Gnolls from Pathfinder. You know, the ones who have an adventure where you find they've been using demonic rituals to rape & impregnate human slaves with their gnollish offspring, men included, so they can sell them on as trojan horses?

>>51657552
Grazzt has this thin mask of civility over his freakshow primal pleasure shtick.

He's like a massive black tiger that will converse with you, but stare at you with predatory eyes as he does.

Or he will attack and rape you in half.

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>>51657745
>Please, if anything, they'd probably be *less* sick and twisted than the Lamashtu Gnolls from Pathfinder. You know, the ones who have an adventure where you find they've been using demonic rituals to rape & impregnate human slaves with their gnollish offspring, men included, so they can sell them on as trojan horses?

OH HEY GUYS YOU KNOW WHAT'S BETTER THAN MAGICAL REALM RAPE WITH GNOLLS?! BEING SUCKED INTO A DARK YOUNG WHILE BLACK MILK SPEWS MUTATINGLY FROM EVERY ORIFICE AND YOUR FUCKING ORGANS BECOME GODDAMN DEMON SEEDS FOR EVEN MORE HELL TREES!
WELL CONSIDER ME *EDUCATED*

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Yeenoghu is fine as he is, as far as I'm concerned. I take him, revive Gorellik, and include a few vague nature and animal spirits to round out a tribal vibe.

I still want my gnolls to more often than not be the bad guys, especially since the orcs in my setting have a bit of a stronger 'noble savage' vibe, kind of Mongol style, so they're not always the baddies. But I also leave them a little room to fall in with mercenary bands or to get kicked out or abandoned and raised by the overgenerous/zealous as cubs and thereby end up as mercenaries or laborers in more civilized lands (allowing just enough room for PCs), while most of their cousins are at best semi-nomadic goat herders or slave traders, and at worst just marauding tribes of scavengers and pillagers that every trade caravan has to keep a wary eye out for, though they're usually too cowardly to actually attack settlements without support.

It feels rather generic and somewhat boring, but there's no idea I'm quite happy enough with to tweak it to.

>>51615457
What if the gnolls are in majority sick of Yeenoghu and his shit, and all just vote to find some heroes to go murder him once and for all so they can hook up with a NEW demon god

>>51657694
>Get a gun
>It's a single shot rifle with a minute long reload time
>And you're trying to use it against a 7ft tall 300 pound monster with bone crushing jaws blessed by the dark mother who wants to rape, enslave, and eat you, not necessarily in that order
>Also they hunt in packs, the one you're facing down is just the distraction
Good luck!

>>51657874
I never said the gun was for them.

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>>51657874
Do you think a gnoll's jaws could break a gun?

>>51657911
>fight a gnoll
>whip out a shotgun
>the fucker just BITES DOWN AND CRUSHES THE BARREL

they always underestimate the gnoll and the whole bone-crushing jaw thing

>>51657898
Perfectly understandable
By the way, how long do you want to bet a soul sticks around after death? They are fond of necromancy after all

>>51657911
>>51657929
>Hyenas have a bite force of 1,100psi
>Gnolls are quite a bit bigger
What do you think?

>>51648713

Need a new Gnoll Goddess? Why not Nurse Verity? She's like a gnoll mid-wife, right? Lamashtu must love her.

>>51657929
That actually does give me a funny mental image of a gnoll responding to an adventurer waving an enchanted sword in front of her face by just taking a bite out of it

>>51657898

... don't be like that, it's not fun if they can't rape you before they feed.

>>51658348
In all fairness that's not necessarily gonna stop them from doing things in that order

>>51621091
>>51633000
Canon in Eberron.

>>51633000
>>51658844
What kind of music?

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Gnolls have a racial bonus for flails, right? If you're redesigning Yeeonghu, maybe that should be changed. Not like flails are that great of weapons anyway.

>>51662028
What is that from anyway? Was there some early gnoll equivalent of Dritz that used flails or something?

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>>51648713
>>51658020
Anyone got a link to more info on nurse Verity? My google-fu is weak.

>>51660637
Question seconded. All i can picture is grungy thrash with lots of screaming.

>>51662360
I always figured it was because Yeenoghu is the Demon Prince of Butchery, and flails are seen as some of the most "barbaric" or "destructive" weapons by Gygax & crew. You know, the whole "spiked metals balls whizzing around at high speed on the ends of chains" thing.

What I wanna get is... why the hell have gnolls always been patriarchal? I mean, I guess it makes sense for the original AD&D 2e gnolls, since I don't think anyone knew that it was the female spotted hyenas who ruled the roost, but still, they're even like that in Pathfinder, where we know they worship Lamashtu.

>>51662518
I think in Pathfinder the females are given over to the worship of Lamashtu, and while they theoretically hold a lot of power, they probably leave the day-to-day stuff to menfolk.

Probably also because it'd be harder to explain to people who may have never known about any sort of matriarchal society or what exactly that could mean.

>>51662502
>Question seconded. All i can picture is grungy thrash with lots of screaming.
Personally I hear gnoll bard and I think drums
Screaming is probably there too

>>51662518
>>51662712
I think it's mostly just inertia, 2e had it and no one bothered to change it
Though if I ever end up using them in a game I'd probably have them be matriarchal with the females larger than the males

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>>51662502
>Anyone got a link to more info on nurse Verity? My google-fu is weak.

Don't think there is anymore. It was a very long time ago. I think it predated Pathfinder and Lamashtu, but Nurse Verity was something of a gag-character, like Cultist-chan for 40K general. I can't recall if it started in a D&D modern or what, but basically from the idea a gnoll nurse would really suck at her job. Eventually this was refined into a Flind (a lawful Evil Gnoll exemplar) who served a deity like-Lamashtu (before Lamashtu) and was the "Mid-wife of Monsters" and "Maven of Malevolence" and generally infected anyone and all around with madness... think German Mad Scientist spliced with Silent Hill Nurse and a healthy dose of gnoll thrown in.

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>>51662890

Never a fan of the depiction... ask /tg/ drawfags to draw a gnoll nurse... they literally made a gnoll in a nurse outfit.

>>51662502
Beatboxing seems appropriately gnollish to me

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>>51662890
Aww bummer, i was hoping for another good read like crazy hassan.
Still i love tg for things like this.

>>51662712
You'd think so, but, they actually contradict themselves.

It's said in the Classic Monsters Revisted that Golarion's gnolls are patriarchal; female gnolls *have* to either give birth or become a cleric of Lamashtu (preferably both) by the age of 15 or else they'll be sacrificed and eaten - males just have to provide 20 pounds worth of meat to the pack, and clerics are subservient to the male shamans.

The Monster Codex, on the other hand, reckons that gnolls are matriarchal - although not a paragraph later it instead states that it's more a brutal meritocracy (aka, "might makes right") and that females tend to be leaders by default due to being bigger than males.

Maybe that's because CMR was technically written for D&D 3.5, whilst Monster Codex was done only after Pathfinder spun off to become its own company.

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>>51662943

>>51662994
Sadly I didn't keep any of the links to the old writefaggery which covered stories of her insanity. But i never found the character too deep. Just a crazy gnoll nurse with what most felt should have a german accent. I mostly remember it for /tg/ creating a character like a gnoll cleric of Lamashtu, long before Pathfinder was even a thing.

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>>51662808
Yeah, its mostly inertia and not wanting to change the fluff too much. Basically Gygax was a catholic who had very little information of hyenas, so he just made them based off the "common knowledge" of how things work. Ya know, hyenas are ugly, nasty, stinky, lazy, good for nothing scavengers, and that all people are naturally led by men who are in charge, while the women churn out babies.

It's only in the past few decades that we have really taken a close look at spotted hyenas and learned that they are pretty amazing animals utterly unlike the stereotypes (except the stinky part).

I always run them as matriarchal/matrilineal and drop the lazy aspect since every tribal culture was "lazy" to a certain extent.

>>51662994
There just isn't all that much to her. She was an avatarfag in the early times of the board, along with Gnollbard, and several others. They just played a psychotic german accented gnoll nurse before they were banned and driven away by Nazimod. I miss those days.

>>51663077
>I miss those days

It is said if you tell a pun and cackle "gihihihi" three times in a post, she will appear.

Don't summon her. We're safer like this.

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>>51663077
I personally think hyenas are rather cute, at least from videos like this one. They're almost doglike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FNvXzy4il4&index=77&

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>>51663122
Oh, I think they are extremely cute too. And are far smarter than your average dog. Like seriously, we had to breed understanding pointing at things into dogs (wolves don't understand it), spotted hyenas just understand it by looking at you for a minute or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uNCwmax8cs as for doglike behavior, just look this hyena having fun.

>>51663295
>we had to breed understanding pointing at things into dogs (wolves don't understand it)
Yet domestic dogs fail at certain problem solving puzzles which wolves pass easily

Intelligence is weird and complicated

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>>51663295
It's probably because hyenas are surprisingly social animals, with their own 'language' of sorts and means of identifying others. I still find it weird how they're technically closer to cats than dogs.

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>>51663122
>>51663295
Hyenas usually get a bad rap thanks to early misconceptions getting spread around by shit like the lion king. Kids hear hyenas ain't nothing but "slobbering mangy stupid poachers" and if no one corrects that later then they never know any different. They aren't majestic like the so-called king of the jungle but more recent research indicates that they are actually much more effective predators with a much higher attempt to kill ratio. Their social structure is facinating as well. In groups of spotted hyenas there is a lot of posturing and desplays of dominance/submission with complex and nuanced levels indicating where each individual stands in the pecking order. But off in pairs or trios literally none of this is seen. If there's no audience they don't put on the show and are extremely relaxed and affectionate with one another. Their long range vocal communication is remarkably sophisticated, on the same level as wolves. This is especially useful considering family units break off from the main... clan? (Idk what it's called.) A few woops can call 20 other hyenas in for backup against other predators or to share in a kill/scavange.

All in all a very interesting and under rated animal and i have gnolls to thank for getting me interested in them.

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>beast races will never be real
>you will never have a cute fluffy cuddly gf

jdimsa

>>51664503
Same here. It was looking at gnolls and really reading into hyena info that made me fall deeply in love with the rascals. And the majesty of the lion is so overrated.

>>51664553
>no cuddly gnoll gf who will come home from work and pick you up gently to give you a kiss
>no gnoll gf to snuggle with after a day of taking care of the home
Why must life be suffering?

>>51664553
>>51664638
I just hope they keep the hyena behavior where the females bully the males they like gentler

....A CE gnoll worshiper of Lamashtu/Yeenoghu with a crush on you would be horrifying though

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>>51664553
>>51664638
Tfw no strong, thick gnoll gf to cook for and wrestle with.
No hip shattering snu snu and exausted cuddles afterwards.
No marks from love bites And scratches for coworkers to double take at.
No lazy days spent lounging, snacking and playing video games with a fluffy cuddle buddy.

Truely life is suffering, but at least we have eachother.

The fact that female hyenas have a pseudo-penis is now pretty well-known on /tg/ at least, but you could make more interesting gnolls out of the ancient Greek ideas about them. In this case specifically that they change sex annually, but they were also believed to have the ability to deprive men of their minds, and draw them close. (They were also believed to be physically repellent to panthers, to the extent that if a hyena and panther hide were hung up together, all the hairs on the panther hide would fall off)
Which makes me wonder, why hasn't anybody made gnolls psionic?

Hyenas' bodies were also believed to have various magical properties; in order to catch a hyena you were supposed to tie seven knots into your belt and into the whip for your horse.
If you caught a hyena while the moon is in Gemini then its body parts would have various medicinal properties: different parts of the hyena would cure headaches, cataracts, muscle pain, various diseases; remove hair, cure barrenness in women, induce miscarriage, stop hallucinations, protect against ghosts, and cause love charms.

>>51664971
I know that feel anon

>>51664998
I seem to remember seeing one before, but I may be mixing things up

A quick check in the ExPH and Comple Psionic confirms nope, I'm making shit up, could have sword I saw official art of a psionic gnoll once though

>they were also believed to have the ability to deprive men of their minds, and draw them close
>MFW I'm now thinking of a psionic musclegirl gnoll waifu who likes to bully/tease you by messing with your head

>>51665079
I do get the feeling that many gnoll made magic items would be made of parts of things they killed, and a LOT higher than you'd expect would be made from other gnolls

>>51664998
Nobody has done it officially, but I gave them access to psionic powers, along with Truenaming magic, and the new occult classes from PF. The Spiritualist class works so well for a favored by an ancestor or watched over by family member vibe perfectly. And what better way to have the legendary ancestors give advice than through the Medium class.

They also make good Oracles because one of the old legends is that the hyenas has a stone in its brain/eye that sees the future, and that if you can procure one, and place it under your tongue, it will bring prophetic visions.

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>>51664862
Gods willing, the alternative would be unpleasent at best.

>>51665111
I could see her locking you up in a cage and inflicting visions of her sacrifice any potential romantic rivals as part of her mind fuckery to break your will and make you her stalkhomey love slave. Or take a more incious tact and bend you mind to make her look like your lover, take you to bed and drop it partway through, laughing as you struggle fruitlessly.

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What do people think of gnolls and mad science?

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Cause i just found these while looking for psychic gnoll pictures, of which there are none.

>>51665305
The first is a bit more monsterous than when I normally think of waifus but wouldn't be out of character for an evil gnoll waifu
Latter is pretty hot though

Though I really REALLY like the idea of psionic gnoll pulling that trick on someone, getting into a long term relationship while disguised as another race all part of one long prank/scheme

>>51665320
I tend to think Kobolds or Goblins when I think mad science monster race

Gnolls make me think either semi nomadic tribal raiders or (in a more civilized context) lower class bullies

>>51664998
>>51665111
>>51665320
>>51665342
I mean, psionic in the sense of hypnotism is somewhat prevalent in pop culture i.e. the Lion King

>>51665320
>>51665342
I don't usually think of gnolls as having the smarts for science but i gotta say i like the look of those pics. The electric mohawk is an especially nice touch.

Let's brainstorm a bit with this. What kind of mad science would gnolls do? My brain jumps right to Frankenstein but i can't seen them not eating their own homework, at least the leftover bits.
I had an idea a while back after another anon told us about his mad max gnolls and their corpse eating chopper bikes. Could be flavored to have a Dire hyena brain in a jaw controlling a construct of bone and metal, as savage and gluttonous as the riders.
I could see mind control expriments being a big thing, next logical step for a race of slavers.
Grafting leftover bits of monsters to themselves like wings and shit to give them an edge.
Death rays and other WMDs seem likely, particularly if they leave bodies that are safe to eat.

>>51665379
From a quick look up, it seems its just a single clan in that card game, and they are possibly building a giant robot from within a massive scrap yard.

>>51664998
Because hyenas, due to all their "alchemistic" use described in >>51665079 and their generally occult attributes in folklore are much more suited to be witches, warlocks and shamans.

Speaking of gnoll waifus, related query: how would you design a half-gnoll PC race, [b]without[/b] making it a near-mindless feral abomination, ala Green Ronin's version from Bastards & Bloodlines?

Do remember that D&D hybrids don't always have to be all but identical to one parent. Half-Elves have been this way in at least one edition. Heck, look at the Half-Goblin from Races of Ansalon; despite Krynnish Goblins being all but identical to vanill D&D gobbos, the Half-Goblins are known for being confident, cocky, driven, self-assured, focused and almost fearless.

>>51665079
Hell, striped hyenas at least are still used to make magic tokens/fetishes for sexual or romantic purposes in modern Africa. People geuinely believe a hyena anus amulet will make you irresistible to prospective sexual partners, which is where I came up with the idea of Yeenoghu as a sexual/fertility-related godling to begin with.

>>51665379
Yeah, to dark for enjoying but it seemed appropriate for CE.

That'd be funny as hell, especially if it was a race that hated gnolls.
Three years and two ugly kids later godfirck ironbeard finally found out why his house always smelled like acrid dog all the time and his wifes cooking was so god awful.

>>51664998
That's only the spotted hyenas that have the pseudo-penises.

>>51665320
>>51665342
>Warcraft
>Goblin tradeprinces employ loads of gnolls as labourers and enforcers
>Have to teach them rudimentary skills in engineering so they can delegate maintenance duties
>Gnolls start to pick up on tinkering despite low attention span
>Start to realise they can use SCIENCE to be even more efficient when dishing out violence
>Gnolls take over Goblin laboratories through sheer brutality, plunder the contents, then build marvelous murdermachines Ork-teknologee like
>instead of a WAAAGH!!!, we get a NYAHAHAHAHAHAGH!!!

I want it. I WANT IT SO MUCH!
>>51665769
>Half-Gnolls

More potentially violent, occult shifters?

>>51665769
I'm not actually sure I would, gnolls are monstrous enough that I can't really visualize a hybrid
Not to say I wouldn't let a gnoll X human spawn, just that it would probably be a smarter but weaker gnoll or a bit stronger/hairier human

>>51665771
Kinda makes me want to make a lightly psionic subrace that pull shit like that all the time
Isn't there some african myth about shapeshifting hyena people who do shit like that?
Or do those just eat people, I can't remember
Probably both

>>51645911
Pazuzu was never a demon. Guess who popularized that bit of misinformation? Same people who invented the nonexistent demon Demogogon.

Everyone's favorite dues vaulting fucktards.

>>51657963
Three days.

That's how long it took Christ to rise.

>>51664116
They're closest to Mustilids.

That's right - hyenas are big fucking weasels.

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>>51665769
I honestly wouldn't make a half-gnoll myself, but maybe while gnolls tend to mainly be the bad views of hyenas, half-gnolls could show more of the good attributes? Their skill at hunting, social skills, maybe some increased strength, in return for less wisdom and intelligence overall.

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>>51665857
I know witches could shift into hyenas so it's not the biggest leap to think that a gnoll could take a leaf out of their book to bamboozle a human or whatever.

And yes, they use it to fool, isolate, kill and eat people in the legends.

In a 4th edd splat they also listed vocal mimicking as an ability based on the legends that hyenas would follow people by day and learn their names and voices. Calling out to them in the dark with their lovers voice to lure them into the jaws of death.

A very gnollish way to do the gnoll-wife could be to stalk the targets closes lover, learn her ways and the kill her. Using magic and her skin to form a near flawless illusion and take her place. Only the appearance of new scars where the skin was cut give the guise away. As such the gnoll takes great care when removing it, making as few cuts as possible. Cutting the skin while worn shows the fur of the beast beneath, though it heals in due time it always leaves a scar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jSPRGpOLyw

>>51667027
That dudes channel has so many good videos on hyenas and lions.

>>51665813
>>51665857
>>51665994
Well, personally, I always figured half-gnolls would look something like the pic in >>51615608, given she was drawn as a half-gnoll and all. Trait-wise, I figured they'd be of the "strengths supplementing weaknesses" type - not as tough, strong or brawny as regular gnolls, but with enough hardiness to keep up on the march and with the smarts to make themselves useful to the pack as artisan and adept types.

You know, sort of like how orc tribes are sometimes said to breed half-orcs because they make better builders, tacticians, whatever due to having better brains than orcs.

>>51665857
There's a couple of different "werehyenas" that I'm aware of. Boudas are most famous, but I also recall kaftars and the vampiric werehyenas that Romans believed haunted battlefields.

>>51665813
The Gnoll laugh soundbite from WoW still haunts my dreams.

>That trill of fear when you pull to many...
>NYHEHEHE
>NYHEHEHE
>NYHEHEHE

Relatedly, WoW Gnolls are my favorite Gnolls. Short, stocky, hyena men whose heads (and thus teeth) take up around 30% of their bodies. Who scavenge everything they can from everyobe around them, leading to various tribes and factions with radically different developments in magic, tech, and culture because they just steal and then Gnoll-ify foreign ideas.

>>51664553
Seek help

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>>51667933
I think that's how most people who aren't into /tg/ stuff think of gnolls. They aren't common most anywhere else.

>>51667933
That's why Gnolls in Warcraft should just be Orkz, steal gob and gnome tek then rampage across Azeroth and fuck the Legion forever THE END COMPLETE REMAKE OF WARCRAFT WITH GOOD LORE NOW BLIZZARD.

Seriously what I wouldn't give to play a Horde gnoll in WoW.

>>51668269
God that would be awesome. I settled for being an icky alliance dapper werewolf when those came out.

>>51668269
We haven't had any new Gnoll stuff since Wrath... I think Blizzard forgot about them really. Or decided to replace them with moar Orcs!

>>51662502
She's still around, lurking. I'm using a cameo of her as a minor villain in my pf game.

>>51668730
Please tell me more if you can, I'm interested in any examples of her. Cause right nw my head cannon is probably Way off from tg's "standard" of her.

the idea and some of the pics got me thinking about having a gnoll nurse in a fantasy M.A.S.H. have him dress in sexy nurse outfit like Clinger to make him less threatening looking. Thinking he might be the assistant to a doctor cursed to be a skeleton. (Bone puns) have him do all the stuff a nurse would do but with a gnollish twist. Eating the amputated limbs, licking wounds to clean them, etc. The doc would obviously not like him cracking bones (makes him flinch). Doc would also be kinda meh about the bodys squishy bits but absolutely incredible at fixing bones. He's still a fully qualified surgion but some of his remedys are about 100 years out of date. It sounded like a funny duo to throw in if the opportunity arose.

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>>51668710
>We haven't had any new Gnoll stuff since Wrath
Well Hogger got a promotion to a low-level dungeon boss and his lackeys now overrun The Stockade, though to be fair that's probably less to do with Blizzard throwing gnolls a bone and more to do with them playing up long-stale memes, as they so often do.

The Gnoll stuff in Volo's in pretty awesome. I like how there can be non gnoll cultists in their warbands too, so long as they're devoted to Yeenoghu

>>51665888
>Pazuzu was never a demon
Pretty sure you are wrong.

>>51669046
Read up thread. We covered this pretty well. Just an avatarfag who roleplayed a gnoll (flind) nurse with a german accent, variously incompetent, sadistic, and/or unnervingly too good using unconventional treatments. She had a giant syringe she would pull out for those who were less than cooperative.

>>51668118
Why?

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i cannot fucking believe you people are still talking about nurse verity and gnollbard

>>51625733
Such a story does not appear to exist.

>>51627764
I like this!

>>51667027
Did he...

Did he jerk off a hyena?

>>51672707
No he scratched the general crotch area because hyenas are weird and greet each other by sniffing each other's crotch. Basically he simulated a higher ranking individual snuffling up in that area.

>>51672409
It's called Snows of Killimanjaro

Anons? Simple question: would you rate this interpretation of gnolls as magical realmy?

The gnolls come from the savannah regions, hot and dry, where they hold their own feuding kingdoms and city-states. Officially a matriarchy under theological grounds, with the superior size, strength and ferocity of the females held up as exemplifying the laws of their patron goddess. In practice, males exercise power not only from "behind the throne", but openly, as most of the race's arcanists are male and gnoll culture relies heavily on what they call "the three pillars"; Necromancy, Enchantment and Conjuration.

Indeed, these three styles of magics propelled gnolls from wandering tribes to established empires, as conjured monsters or undead servitors could provide far greater brute labor than mere mortal slaves, whilst enchantments served to attain unprecedented levels of loyalty.

Gnoll society still makes extensive use of slavery, but with skeletal workforces to provide grunt labor, slaves have become more valuable for their minds than their bodily labor. Although they are still bitter enemies with abolitionist factions, life as a gnollish slave is at least livable, in comparison to the fate of so-called serfs in some cases.

Although their neighbors still keep a wary eye for possible invasion, the truth is that the gnolls expend far too much energy in internal feuds to form any real ambitions towards wars of conquest. Besides which, trade agreements are producing sufficient wealth and access to exotic goods that more gnolls would be aghast at cutting off the flow of luxuries than would be eager for a war - unlike the orcs or hobgoblins, gnolls feel no religious calling to subjugate and conquer.

>>51673682
I don't see anything magical realm about that to tell the truth

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>>51672283
>i cannot fucking believe you people are still talking about nurse verity

Our savage saviour! When the stars are right she will return to teach us new ways to suffer and sing, and we shall cast aside concepts of civilization and inhibition. Chaos will ensue, and men and beast will revel in their most base instincts!

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>>51624920
if you want a Gnoll BBEG, take a gander at the Sundered Empire/God War setting for the WOTC version of Chainmail, one of the main warlords/factions included fits right into what you are looking for(it's also generally a pretty nice setting concept for only being about 30 pages), interestingly enough even though it goes with the "Heavily Involved With Demons" interpretation of Gnolls it doesn't just make them into mindless murder beasts

>>51635080
I'm reminded of a unused character concept I had for a planescape campaign that my DM torpedoed cause he was kinda a choad, basically a Gnoll(or Flind, can't remember which) who was his plane's equivalent to Gilgamesh or Hercules, an early semi-divine Hero who was prophesied to eventually ascend to full godhood and take charge of the Gnoll race's destiny

>>51665320
not entirely sure about mad science, but another thread we had recently pointed out a mythological connection between Hyenas and Blacksmithing in African legends(witches that could turn into hyenas were often thought to be blacksmiths in their civilian lives), which lead to some ideas about Gnolls being the master smiths of the Monstrous Humanoids, which would explain why they're tolerated as part of mixed species hordes despite some of their unsavory even by Monstrous Humanoid standards behaviors

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>>51673933
Pic related.

Combining the craftsmanship and ingenuity leads me to imagine Gnoll caravans having all their property in highly functional but ugly ramshackle carts drawn by tamed rhinoes, and if they go to war they pop off the top and use loud and fuming organ cannons to tear enemies to shreds.

I really wish Blizzard gave us Gnolls as Horde gnomes instead of Goblins, we're basically writing the perfect setup for them!

>>51620530
>>51664998
>>51673933
>>51674334
>Tribal gnolls supported with very high quality gear and a bit of psionic mind control
I like it

>>51657833
I did something like one of those ideas in a 4e game. Crusades happened, played a gnoll as a Berserker. Raised by a paladin (though was more of a novelty than a child) but eventually became more trouble than he was worth. Was much, much smaller than the typical gnoll due to being raised on a human diet.

Tried to live by a code of honor but had SERIOUS anger issues, so more often than not just chimped out and killed everything. Could have been a tragic snowflake character, but he was just too stupid to feel bad about it. Was more like Lenny, really.

Ended up basically being the cabin boy on a gnoll pirate ship. Was a fun game.

Question about Knolls

I'm working out the details to run a game with a Knoll Warband in it, and I wanted to make the packlord a mix of a regular packlord and a Fang of Yeenoghu

Would I just give the packlord more HP, or is there more you would do to put him closer to a Fang than a packlord?

>>51651149
Nice strawman, dipshit.
I was more thinking of actual "beast/animal races" rather than specific monsters that got turned into "races" but feel free to keep projecting.

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>>51677783
Ah, sorry

forgot to mention that this'd be 5th ed knolls

seemed strange to me that a knoll packlord has a lower CR than the Fangs, so I wanted to try and bump up his CR a bit

>>51677843
That's boring as shit.

>>51677783
>>51677891
why the heck are you misspelling Gnoll so consistently?

>>51679262

I think it's like GW "Ork"... he's trying to trademark them as his special snowflake race for his setting?

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>>51679068
>um excuuuse me, I only play with mature always evil unnatural corruption beastmen for mature individuals like myself which is totally more in-line with mythology, anything else is stupid
>what, you want to base things on mythology? that's so boooring!

>>51680751
Nope. I like mythology and basing shit off of it.

I just find the way you like to do this thing incredibly boring.

Specifically your way.

So, question: who here prefers the 4th edition lore about gnolls to the 5th edition lore?

In the former, we got gnolls who are directly created by Yeenoghu (at least, that's the dominant theory; the earlier Demonomicon: Yeenoghu article actually brought up the "stolen from Gorellik" lore), but still not irredeemably evil, because they do retain a hyena's soul as well as a demon's blood. So, you had plenty of cackling cannibalistic killers, but you also had tribes who aren't evil, who might even be trying to be good, in their own primal way. You had gnolls worshipping the Primal Spirits, or serving Kord, Melora or the Raven Queen.

In the latter, we got gnolls who are... well, they're basically zombies. Their entire characterization starts and end with being embodiments of Yeenoghu's eternal hunger, with all vestiges of intelligence directed at finding more meat to feast upon.

>>51679847
nah, honest mistake

thought it was spelled knoll

not sure why, though I'll make a note of how its supposed to be spelled

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>>51685188
Knolls are small hill type things, if that helps.

>>51673682
I'm not seeing anything that sounds magical realm-y. You aren't even emphasizing size difference or trying to create a BDSM slave thing.

>>51685268
this does help, but what would REALLY help is someone's idea of kitbashing of a gnoll packlord and a gnoll Fang of Yeenoghu

>>51685943
What are you using for regular gnolls?

>>51684367
>Their entire characterization starts and end with being embodiments of Yeenoghu's eternal hunger, with all vestiges of intelligence directed at finding more meat to feast upon.

Read Volo's Guide and you'll realize there is actually quite a bit of nuance to this.

>>51686074
regular 5e gnolls

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>>51686074

>>51660637
>What kind of music?

In Eberron, the Roman/Samurai inspired ancient Goblinoid civilization were agnostic and the closest they got to priests were their bards called "Dirgesingers" who recited legends and sung praises of their glorious dead.

So I could totally see a Gnoll bard hyping the pack up with wild rythymic whooping and snarling and chanting. I also think Eberron Gnolls are supposed to have the ability to imitate voices and sounds in order to lead prey into ambushes.

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What kind of an Elf adopts a gnoll?

>>51688106
A cannibal

>>51688126
Only if the elf eats other elves

>>51689954
We don't have a word for what you are when you eat another intelligent humanoid, so cannibal.

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>Space Gnolls!

>>51688106
A better question is what kind of gnoll adopts an elf.

>>51664998
That's actually only one type of hyena, something much less well known on /tg/. That said gnoll sexual dimorphism and gender roles is something that should be incorporated into setting fluff, and hyenas have stuff to use there.

Even in default fluff gnolls are definitely... worse, on that front, to fall into the hands of that orcs or goblins I think.

>>51686390
Ah sorry, I thought you meant mini-wise.