At what point should a GM be providing the opportunities for

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>>51589144
This is why discussing things with the players and DM beforehand is really really important. "You all meet in a tavern" is the shittiest intro a game can possibly have. Everyone should have a vague idea before the game even starts what the group is doing and why they're together. From there it should be easy enough to come up with a character goal that is aided by being part of this group.

>>51589428
So should the first session just be set aside to character creation and brainstorming? It seems like the whys and hows are barely elaborated on beyond explaining how we all get to the same place, but not the actual goals of our characters or what we want to do as players.

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>>51589611
Yes, 100%. If your character has no goals, they may well be a wandering killbot that's been programmed to accept quests from whoever inserts a gold coin.

The first session should always always ALWAYS be the DM and the players working something out like "OK, in this next campaign you're all going to be part of a mercenary band" or "You're all going to be retainers for Lord So-and-so" or "You're all part of a group of criminals"or any kind of general premise really.

Having a premise presents a number of benefits for a potential character to be part of this plot, and from there you can look at the potential benefits you're getting and design a character who NEEDS these benefits for whatever reason. Whether that reason is access to money and resources to achieve a life's goal, the strength to save or avenge a loved one, the chance to fufill a vow or spiritual/moral obligation, whatever.

The only time it really works to have characters just meet up randomly with no goals or backstory is when you're doing a one-shot dungeon crawl or something. It's awful to take that kind of approach with longer or more serious games. Don't be pic-related, always work with your players/DM.

>>51589611
Depends on your setup.
If you have a strong motivation baked into the setting, such as Apocalypse World's "find food and water and weapons so you don't die", you can easily hit the ground running.
Same if you subscribe to the Japanese school of scenario design and provide handouts with relevant motivations and ties to the story for the players to create their characters around.

As long as you provide a strong incentive to act right out of the gate, you can fill in the whys and hows later, when the players already have a grip on their characters.

>>51589677
>a wandering killbot that's been programmed to accept quests from whoever inserts a gold coin.
Totally putting this in my next game. Gonna be colonial era East Asian islands meets Mad Max in the underbelly of a 40k hive city, and I feel like having the party encounter and adventurer-bot would add just the right amount of Borderlands.

>>51589924
This works right up until you satisfy your immediate needs, then you're right back in the sandbox with no real motivation again.

>>51589144
It should be a bit mutual. If you're doing basically nothing, both the DM and the players are to blame.

A DM should be always showing plot hooks that the players can take or reject. Players should not reject a plot hook unless they got something better to do or the hook is simply retarded. Unless you've established beforehand something like "this game is gonna be about how Bob's character tried to be a king" all characters in the party should be somewhat curious individuals. Some can be less curious than others, but the stories that fit your classic adventure game often can be avoided by not being "those meddling kids".

>>51592674
That only happens if, while satisfying their immediate needs, the PCs...

- make no enemies
- gain no new needs
- find nothing interesting
- and reveal nothing about themselves

And if all of that applies, the entire group has seriously fucked up.

>>51592965
>make no enemies
This only works for so long. A game of constantly being on the run gets dull fast.

>Gain no new needs
Fair

>Find nothing interesting
If they don't NEED it, "interesting" might not be worth risking their lives for

>and reveal nothing about themselves
They could have done this in the very first pre-game session and maybe given the DM some material to construct plothooks with and the other players some time to think about why they'd care or possibly be invested.

>>51593016
>A game of constantly being on the run gets dull fast.
>running from your enemies
Your players are pussies.
>If they don't NEED it, "interesting" might not be worth risking their lives for
Yes, your players are definitely pussies. I've risked my life for giggles and shits before.

>>51593016
>A game of constantly being on the run gets dull fast.
Only if you're constantly on the run from the same enemies, and cannot take the fight to them.

>If they don't NEED it, "interesting" might not be worth risking their lives for
Not every motivation poses an immediate threat to your life and ideally, the PCs are more than just self-preseving automatons.

>They could have done this in the very first pre-game session
Not necessarily. Creativity in a near-vacuum is difficult and rarely cohesive. A team of speshul snoflakez is almost never a team.

>maybe given the DM some material to construct plothooks with and the other players some time to think about why they'd care or possibly be invested
That is precisely what happens when the PCs are interacting in the kickstarted session.

>>51589924
In my case, it's Shadowrun. I think I have some goals for my character, but they aren't really related to running all that strongly.