/osrg/ OSR General - Great Plains Edition

It sometimes does. Mostly as encounter die fluff.

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Looking for examples of town maps with OSR feel.

Not Village of Hommlet.

Guys, I'm looking for a good module to introduce modern players to OSR dungeon crawling.

I'm looking for something that features a hub town/village and a dungeon with multiple levels for the party to explore over the course of a few sessions. I don't mind gonzo stuff, but I want a more "traditional" experience.

>>51580692
B2 - Keep on the Borderlands

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>>51580692
I took Tomb Of The Iron God and modified it a bit. When they needed to retreat and rest/recover we made the village. For the village/outside hub I just asked each player to describe a place/thing in the village nearby that their character knew, then drew them on a map and went from there. It doesn't have to be that complicated.

Beyond The Wall has some cool ideas for everyone building a home village together.

N1 Against the Reptile God looks like it would be cool to mess around with too. I'd probably edit out the various opportunities for dmpcs though.

There's always B2.

>>51580512
here, I used this map for the town. Had enough stuff. Not sure why its Damned, but we'll find out. I just put the Tomb Of The Iron God in the Bone Forest. Easy.

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It does not. And I rarely mention it. I should probably get better about that.

>>51580692
Well, there is B1 "In Search of the Unknown" as well as B2 "Keep on the Borderlands". A good one in my opinion is B4 "The Lost City". If you're wanting a newer module, then try out BFRPG's Morgansfort adventure module.

>>51580692
Village of Hommlet.

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>>51580692
Barrowmaze has village, a dungeon and a hexmap. Everything you need.

>>51581953
I'd sooner convert Castle Whiterock than run Barrowmaze.

Is it wrong to take the OSR style ruleset and general type of gameplay (ruling over rules, letting players dictate actions instead of rolling, etc.) into games that aren't actually OSR?

>>51583576
no

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>>51583576

Absolutely. I've called the cops, expect a visit from the RPG police soon.

>>51583576
Maybe a boardgame that has very specific rules.

>I use Tophat to resist going to jail

But that could be fun too.

>>51583576
It's not *wrong*, but maybe you'll have a problem with conflicting design? What game are you planning to hack?

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>>51583802
>inb4 3.pf

>>51583802
>>51583852

I don't have a system yet, I was going to run a more modern day investigation based kind of roleplay.

I was honestly considering just stealing the DnD core, minus perhaps the classes to use instead. But I felt without major focus on dungeon crawling it might be weird.

>>51583418
What's wrong with Barrowmaze?

>>51583937
>minus perhaps the classes to use instead.
So... just Fighting-Men? Just As GYGAX Intended!!

>>51583418
Is Castle Whiterrock any good btw?

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>>51580994

Nice. Better than my effort.

>>51584231
Could be better, could be worse. Like all things, steal steal steal.
>>51583980
I've read over the Barrowmaze and, I dunno, it just seemed like a mess to me. I will say it's been a while since I've read it over, but I remember thinking 'I will never run this' when I first read it.l

>>51580151
I just had a chargen session for AD&D 1e with Unearthed Arcana. Do the bonuses from weapon specialization and double specialization stack or not? It's worded vaguely.

Inb4 pretending to be surprised that Gygax worded something weird

>>51576733
I'd join if this was on discord, not Skype.

CST: Free M/W 2pm - 12am; T/TH 7pm - 12am; F/Sa 1pm - 4pm; Su 1pm - 6pm

Help me out

>Cleric of Juusst (Chaotic god of greed and commerce)
>Good Thing: Buys things at 50% normal price
>Bad Thing: ???

>Cleric of Gwyn (Lawful god of the sun)
>Good Thing: Turns Undead as a Cleric of two higher levels
>Bad Thing: ???

>>51585221
>Cleric of Juusst
Don't receive spells from Juusst, buy them instead.

>Cleric of Gwyn
Glows as 5 torches. Draws lots of attention, especially in dungeons.

Any good post-apoc stuff in the OSR?

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>>51585388
LBBs, Gamma World, that homebrew that's come up every other thread for the last fortnight (Ruinations?), etc...

>>51585444
Which Gamma World to check out?

I want to build a list for players, of tips for oldschool play.
Gimme your protips.
Keep it short and dot-pointy.

Some examples:

- Use retainers. They are cheap and disposable and invaluable in a fight. The more combatants on your side = the more attack rolls you get. They can also handle lots of menial shit like torch bearing.
- take animals. Like retainers but easier to abuse!
- take lots of lantern oil. Setting things on fire is often a viable and optimal solution.
- take lots of lard. Greasing shit up is an invaluable tactical move.

>>51585592

Maybe look at this for some broader suggestions: http://roll1d100.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/osr-gaming-player-agendas.html

>>51584562
Do you mean do you get the bonuses from a Specialization and then the bonuses from a Double Specialization? That shit is ambiguous. I'd guess no, but that's just because it describes the first Specialization as replacing the melee attacks per round table so it makes me think Double Specialization would replace plain old Specialization.

Not grog enough to say very confidently though.

>>51585592
I'd just go with broad strokes, the specifics are fun for them to figure out
>retainers and animals can be soldiers, sherpas and stand-ins when you die
>common adventuring items are your tools for survival
>you need light to see

>>51583682
Aww yeah, loved that show as a kid.
Huh, wonder if that is what helped with my poofy hair and mermaid fetishes.

I gotta admit I didn't remember the animation being that good though.

>>51586211

Disney's no Hanna Barbera. They don't slack off on the animation quality.

>>51585310
>>Cleric of Juusst
>Don't receive spells from Juusst, buy them instead.
This is fucking gold.

>>51585680
Mostly wondering about the bonuses to hit and damage

Assuming I'm using the 6-mile Hex how big should my map be for a Hexcrawl.
I've been thinking about 75x50, 100x75, or more recently 50x30 because that's roughly the size in square miles people have suggested the Mount & Blade Warband map is.

>>51586614
Yeah, I wouldn't stack those. But that's just because it doesn't seem to fit with the wording to me, which seems counter intuitive if I break it down. Specialization takes 2 slots, Double takes an additional... 1 slot... damnit gary.

But Double Specializing would give +4 to-hit and +5 dmg if they stacked, which seems like a lot. +3/+3 is already a bunch.

>>51581430
BFRPG's JN1 The Chaotic Caves seems to be pretty directly inspired by B2 Keep on the Borderlands as well, and also details a pretty fleshed out town.

>>51586663
Make it as big as you need it. 50x30 is fine, 75x50 as well though 100x75 is pushing it a bit in my opinion but I don't know what you have planned with it.

>>51586802
The town isn't really fleshed out, there being basically no quests and no names whatsoever (the town isn't even named at all). If you do run it, that's something you'll want to do but yes, it is almost a complete rewrite of B2 and I actually prefer it to B2 but a lot of people want more classic modules and I had named Keep on the Borderland already so why give them what amounts to a (wonderful) rewrite?

>>51587076
Alright, I actually haven't done much more than skim through it so that's good to know.

Can anyone help me find Maze of the Blue Medusa? I thought for sure it was in the trove, but I've spent the last ten minutes combing through folders and my eyes are starting to glaze over.

Do any of the old White Wolf Magazine issues on rpgnow have D&D material in them?

>>51580994
>>51580802
>>51581430
Are these modules easy to use with other systems?

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>>51587482

Most OSR systems are readily cross-compatible, though sometimes with a bit of adjustment. Here's LotFP's guide to converting AC between various systems -- but also consider that when TSR switched base AC from 9 to 10 after the first Monster Manual, nobody even noticed that ACs were "off" by one.

>>51587482
By and large yes. Biggest major difference is AC (some use ascending, others use descending, most start at 10 though others start at different numbers, etc.) but by and large you can grab a module for, say, OSRIC, steal things from ACKS and run it all in BFRPG with only a few minor changes.

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>>51587195
>

>>51587482
c >>51487131, >>51502033
It's all the same jazz.

>>51580512
Anyone ever run this, how'd it go?

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>>51587669
>Biggest major difference is AC
Though it's easy to convert, and even if the chances to hit were off by 5%, that would hardly ruin the module. Remember that AD&D's Monster Manual was written before Gygax decided to change the armor scale from 9 down to 10 down, so the main monster book for AD&D is actually scaled wrong.

>>51583418
>>51584536
If you say so. It's just one large level and a bunch of smaller areas surrounding it. I had a tougher time parsing Dwimmermount.

>>51586998
It's more of an open world thing where I make a world and some fluff and just let the players loose.

I'll have plots and stuff develop over time but I want the PCs to take the plot where they want it.

>>51587910
Schrödinger's Setting Elements.

You only have so way set-pieces prepared, you only plot-points thought out.
You might have to tweaks few things, but on some level they're just picking the backdrop.
It's not really an open world. Unless you are an over preparing chump.

>>51588072
Call me an overpreparing chump, who's also decent at improv.

>>51583682
Look how great that animation is. Truly the essence of D&D.

>>51587772
>
Thank you so much, friend.

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Hey /osrg/. I made a thing for you guys.

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>>51588114
I'll call you a chump two fold.
You only need to be passable at improv if you over prepare.

>>51588124
>inb4 True Anon™ dumps a .pdf

>>51588144
No trouble, friendo. Mega's search feature is garbage.
Only knew where it was because I asked a while back.

>>51587801
Does that mean that all MM monsters have AC 1 lower than they should even in 2E, where their stats were brought forward to?

Looking back, what parts of B/X or even BECMI/RC:
A) work really well for oldschool style games
B) Don't hold up

>>51588252
>B
The weapons. "All weapons deal d6 damage" is a terrible rule but there doesn't need to that much detail about weapons either.

Thieves, level limits, funky saves.

>A
Everything else.

>>51588177
Fair enough chump I am.

But it's all in the service of the fun of others!

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>>51588168
I'll read it, but the writing seems pretty superfluous.
Probably would have worked well on two pages.

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1d100 Secret Doors is up. I'll post a jpg version in a short while.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/02/1d100-secret-doors.html

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>>51588394
For those who want to easily save and share or whatever.

>>51588180
I have no idea about 2e. I would expect that at least some of their ACs were revised, but that some might have been kept the same thanks to tradition, but that's just speculation as I'm not familiar with the contents of the Monstrous Whatchamacallit.

Rolled 12 (1d100)

>>51588462
What's the stupidest place you've ever put a hidden door?
For me, it was inside a (much, much larger) door, on the face of the flush with the wall by the hinges.
The door opened to a ladder inside the big door, which took you to a tunnel through the hinges.

>>51588304
>Thieves, level limits, funky saves.
If you're playing B/X, with its de facto maximum level of 14, only the level cap for halflings is an issue. A 12th level dwarf is probably about right compared to a 14th level fighter, and a 10th level elf is probably about right compared to a 14th level magic-user. If there's a problem, it's that they reach those levels too soon. 8th level for halflings is bullshit though.

>"All weapons deal d6 damage" is a terrible rule
In my experience, absolutely everybody uses the variable weapon damage "option", but I can actually see some merit to d6 damage across the board. It means you get to personalize your character the way you want and not be forced into rejecting a whole slew of weapons as inferior. Still, I can see the purpose for differentiation as well. I mean, if I've got a sword and you've got a dagger, in most situations that obviously gives me the advantage (though this is much more about reach than damage).

>>51588512
The most stupid place? I honestly don't know if I can pinpoint one, but I've put in plenty of strange, poorly-thought-out doors in my games before. I had a secret door once that was in the closet of a large bedroom in a castle. It was there because the owner wanted a way out, but while designing a crawl in the castle I put a breach in the wall right next to it, and the players ended up immediately noticing the conspicuously strange section of wall.

It was just strange dungeon design, more than anything, but I still felt rather dumb.

>>51588304
>"All weapons deal d6 damage" is a terrible rule
It's weird post CHAINMAIL man-to-man combat.

Originally it was handwaved into the combat abstraction.
'Weak' weapons got more hits in, or took more concentration, or whatever.

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As an aside, White Wolf Adventures is up for free on RPGnow. It's a collection of some of their old modules for "fantasy games". The way they describe stats is pretty weird and they don't list HD but it's definitely D&D-compatible.

>>51588792
Not too familiar with how Mega works, but could someone add it to the Trove?

>>51588824

Only the account owner can add stuff, and TroveGuy's been missing for a bit. (Last I saw he was had the tin cup out for submissions for another Troll Gods.)

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>>51588168
Digging the Minotaur. Maze was also kind-of neat.
Not sure why you went into so much detail about trash in the room, the referee can improv that.
Speaking of the trash, did you include the whole map a second time just to say where it all was?

>>51588942
I pretty much adapted my notes for when I ran the adventure last month into the module, made the maps a little less rough looking and whatnot.
Having the minimaps on the same page as the room is just a personal preference. Constantly flipping between an encounter key and the main map while running an adventure is a big pet peeve of mine. It slows things down a lot at the table. As well, a minimap allows more detail on the map. Which makes it more visual and less WORDS WORDS WORDS when describing a room. I offload a lot of room detail into maps when I run my own games.

>>51588168
>The gate is a 10ft monolith of stone which pivots on an axis. A fucking child can push it open.
kek'd.

you've got typos in the Arturio section re his name.

> Roll a 1d4. The first area of the maze has hallways in the shape of whatever number was rolled.
What?

Which TSR era D&D do you think works best for long term campaign play and why?

Which clone of that version improves on it and how?

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>>51589085
Ah yeah, last paragraph of the section has a typo. Thanks for pointing it out.
The way the maze works is that say a 4 would generate this when the players reach the end of a maze hallway.

Maybe "hallways and intersections on the map in the shape" would sorta explain the concept better?

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>>51589129
Forgot to ask:
Does the room with Daedalus look like 10?
Or do you go there INSTEAD of the 10 hallway?

>>51589277
?
I'm a little drunk, sorry. I'm sorta confused what you're asking.

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>>51589102
>best for long term campaign play and why?
B/X, 14 is plenty. RC if 3.pf converts in your group get upset.
Not BECMI though. BECM if you want, but Immortals set is too much.

>improves on it and how?
Retroclones either try (read: fail) to do their own thing, or else only exist to publish modules for the *actual* system.
At the end of the day, they're all pretty much the same thing.
Once your own rulings and honebrew are added, you won't notice any differences.

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>>51589291
If you roll 10, and end up meeting the Architect, is he in in a normal room or a room shaped like 10?

>>51589377
He's in a normal room. I see what you mean now. I'll edit it to be the "architects room". The room is featureless more or less aside from containing the architect.

>>51589394
Might be better to make the room a 10.
Players who go under the dungeon get more info about the maze that way.

>>51589604
Ah good point.
So what do you think of it overall? It's a little wordy but I think I struck a good balance of info and flavor.

It's the first module I've really "published" but with how much the hobby has given me in terms of adventures and ideas, I figure I almost owe it to the hobby to give back in a way. My players liked it and were all enthusiastic when I ran it so I figured I'd put it out there on the internet.

I worry though how most shitty modules on the internet were probably actually good at the table. It's just that the dm could run their adventures but couldn't write them well.

>>51589339
So, you're saying you'd take B/X and houserule it to your liking (eg. make your own personal retroclone) before using an established retroclone?

Has someone compiled a simplified bare bones B/X rules document? like the 3.5e SRD?

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>>51589721
>before using an established retroclone?
I'm fine either way. I'll consider lifting bits from retroclones, but I'll start from and claim to play B/X.

>>51589679
The flavor is OK, but (Minotaur notwithstanding) I don't like the NPCs.
Maybe I'm missing something or maybe the module is, but they seem flat.

That all aside, it's weird for a dungeon, especially an all trap dungeon, to be Gotcha! traps the whole way through.
None are super dangerous and all are neat, so I'll excuse it. Weird though.

>>51589841
Ah yeah, traps have always been one of my weakpoints. In play, the players were able to explore freely. There's zero danger until the moment the players start looting treasure. I ran it for my cousins at first level so I didn't want it to be too dangerous.
The npc's aren't too crazy, yeah. The players liked the architect and kept calling the shrine goddess "crazy bitch".

Maybe one thing with the traps would be to emphasize how the rooms are immediately different when activated? When I ran it, I would instantly explain how the room was different when the players entered so they pretty much knew when danger was present.

>>51589841
As far as osr d&d, I don't think there's a need to use a specific ruleset. If you're comfortable enough, you don't even need a rulebook to run d&d. Just give some bonuses to certain classes, have them do roll under ability score rolls, etc. I added skills as "roll under ability roll but with advantage" as my one non-osr thing. It's not too hard to just bullshit some d&d together with people.

>>51589990
>you don't even need a rulebook to run d&d.
If my players forgot to write their spells on 3x5 cards, their character forgot to memorize spells.
The only other reason to check the books during play is monsters, and I put to the stat blocks in my notes.

The books should be handy, but having them open during the session just bogs things down.
Even for settling disputes, it's best to male a ruling, roll with it for the session, then check the book after.

>>51590024

Excellent post.

How would one go about removing gold-for-xp and possibly even xp entirely from B/X (or its clones) but maintain oldschool incentives (eg. loot dungeons for treasure).

Let's say we go absoloutely mental and want to demolish xp as a whole but retain levels and adventuring incentives.

- how do players level up?
By spending gold gained from adventuring? Either through "training" or investments. That is still essentially gold-for-xp, I think.
By clearing dungeons or completing X number of quests?
Very arbitrary. How do you know when you've "cleared" something sufficiently to have it count as gaining a level. What about non-dungeony adventures?
Training? Character goes out of action for x amount of time to reflect and train?
Would have to awkwardly shoehorn in explanations for how that happens. Player would have to play a different character in the meantime which might not be what they enjoy.

thoughts?

>>51590646
As far as incentives go, you could parabolically increase the costs of things and combine this with more of a stress on purchasables being vital. Maybe you need to purchase your spells, or to pay scribes to help you translate scrolls (or mystics to help you undrestand them), or donate money to your church before your god gifts them to you. Maybe your spells have expensive material components or you need to pay a lot of money for others to cast spells on your behalf (healing you, blessing you with certain protections, resurrecting party members, etc.). Maybe you have a greater ability to purchase magic items than is often typical in old school D&D (this doesn't necessarily have to take the form of a magic mart, if you don't like that aesthetic--you could pay wizards to enchant things, or use your thief's black market connections to track down collectors and traders who have particular magic items you are looking for, etc.). Maybe you need to bond with magic items, and you need to buy the help of mystics to accomplish this. And maybe some of your character's advancement is shifted to equipment.

Has Blood in the Chocolate for Lamentations of the Flame Princess ever been released to the wild? I recently read Broodmother Skyfortress and World of the Lost and I'm hyped as fuck.

Is there a method of doing classless OSR that isn't shit?

How do the skills in Beyond The Wall work?
The game seems intriguing, but I just hope the skill system isn't broken garbage.

>>51591081
Everyone Is An Adventurer? Or was that thing called

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>>51591240
Into the Odd is better. It determines starting equipment based on stats in a fun way.

Alright, picked up LotFP, convinced group to try it. Everything's been gotten ready.

That said all of us are new to osr, any advice for getting everyone into the mindset?

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>>51591479

>highest plus lowest attribute

What possible reason is there for doing it this way?

>>51591506
"lol im gonna dump my non-casting stat"

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>>51591531

>OSR
>dumping stats

>>51591498
dying is fun.
stop looking at your character sheet for things "you can do".
look at your inventory for things to weaponize.
Weaponize everything.
Think more in terms of "what would I do if this were real?" rather than "what would a D&D character do?"
Talk to monsters. They might be willing to trade or negotiate.
Combat is the failure state. Always look for a way to avoid it and still get what you want.

>>51592109
>dying is fun.
should only be an issue for the group fatalist
>stop looking at your character sheet for things "you can do".
I figure room one or two should get that across
>look at your inventory for things to weaponize.
There is an encounter where everyone will learn this after someone dies because they don't have a dagger and didn't think to sub in a fist full of nails.
>Weaponize everything.
fist full of nails
>Think more in terms of "what would I do if this were real?" rather than "what would a D&D character do?"
Probably not take a date into monster infested caverns to begin with, let alone attempt to impress them with loot
>Talk to monsters. They might be willing to trade or negotiate.
Sadly there will be a language barrier to contend with there, outside of 1.5 specific cases, I wish them luck.
>Combat is the failure state. Always look for a way to avoid it and still get what you want.
Now that seems easy enough to state up front. Any attempts to back out after the first minor windfall to avoid continual confrontation the easy way, will be met with disappointment by the dates.

>>51591239
They work really well. If you have a skill appropriate to the situation, you get a +2 bonus to the roll-under stat check. And skills aren't from a set a list, and aren't tied to specific stats, so athletics for example might give you +2 to strength checks to climb or jump, and to con check to run long distances, and also to charisma check to win body building contests. It works really well.

>>51591498
What module/adventure are you using? Are you going more weird 1700s eurohorror lotfp, more classic b/x bizarre tomb robbing, gonzo planetary romance, hex crawl border princes, something else? The specifics there, while all being osr, will make what your players should be working with different.

All things being sortofequal >>51592109
had it but you've already rejected a bunch of the concepts, so.

What's the purpose of the discord?

>>51590646
MVP (hidden ballot, no self-voting) levels up after each successful delve.

>>51592109
>stop looking at your character sheet for things "you can do".
As a GM, take away their character sheets. They cannot help them.

>>51594006
What do you do when it's one person running 4 characters?

>>51594019
If they can't remember what they're supposed to do they should not be running more than one PC in the first place. This isn't 4E.

>>51591479
>>51591506
Aught to be something you dump skill points into.

Something like:
2:1 from 0-10 (+2MP/SP)
1:1 from 10-20 (+1MP/SP)
1:2 from 20-30 (+½MP/SP)
1:4 from 30-40 (+¼MP/SP), etc.

>>51592339
>Sadly there will be a language barrier to contend with there,
Add in a goblin (or whatever) that speaks just enough broken Common to parlay.
If they spare it's life, they get a free hireling/translator (albeit one w/ piss morale).

>>51593351
To oppose the elements of harmony.

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>>51594745

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>>51594793
Not that Anon, but it wasn't a bad reference.
He didn't dwell on the material, or post an image, or anything!

>>51588168
Might be fun to rework this into, "visit the out of the way cursed shrine for an offering/inquiry/whatever, and while you're there bandits start ransacking it."

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>>51594745

You should be ashamed of yourself anon! I snickered, though.

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What are some sites for good oldschool-ish minis besides Otherworld?

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>>51595206
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I use dry erase board.

>>51595411
That seems weird. Do you tear the eraser board and put it on another eraser board that's the map?

>>51596438
Felt that clings to the board, with shitty pictures sewn in.
Refrigerator magnets (etc.) if the board is magnetic.
Marker doodles (or just circles) if I don't have an appropriate one of the above.

>>51595206
I've started on some human adventurers from Red Box Miniatures. They're somewhat expensive for single 28mm figs but they really nail the "level 1-3 adventurer" look. Most other manufacturers focus on sparkly heroes or bucklepunk adventurers.

There's probably 10-15 figs that would make great B/X characters. Rest of the line seems like fairly typical fantasy stuff.

If I didn't have a pile of minis from the Heroquest boardgame, I'd probably get Descent or something for lots of mooks.

It's mostly for my own amusement, but occasionally they're handy. I don't like grid combat but they can be useful for illustration.

>>51590646
>clearing dungeons
That just turns into hack and slash XP, grinding mobs, etc.

I would suggest XP bounties for heroic deeds, as one alternative.
>slay the dragon for 5000XP
>Explore a wilderness hex for 500XP
>retrieve an ally's body for 1000XP
>gather the ten stones of Arcturus for 4000XP
>end the War of Succession that's been raging for centuries for 20,000XP

That could be cool for more of a heroic fantasy thing, and it would line up fairly well with effort = XP.

Although, I will say that I think XP is not actually the prime motivator for a lot of groups. Imaginary treasure and being able to do new and interesting things is often a good motivator on its own.

>>51597491
I think you can use gold-for-xp for all of that.
>Dragon's hoard has 5000 gp (which is way to small, admittedly)
>The wilderness hex has a ruin/camp/enemy/whatever with 500 gp
>The dead ally had 1000 gp, or someone pays the PCs 1000 gp to find the body
>Each stone of Arcturus is worth 400 gp
>For ending the War of Succession, the PCs are awarded jewelry worth 20,000 gp

>>51597491
Gaining levels is a major motivator though.

What about gaining a level based on achieving class specific milestones.

Eg. A fighter reaches level 2 after slaying 10 opponents of equal or greater HD.
Level 3 after 20 more and one mythical beast.
Level 4 after 60, 10k of wealth, 5 mythical beasts, etc

>>51597617
I agree, but the guy is asking for alternatives, and that's what I'd use if gold for XP weren't an option. Per session XP or plot point XP just strikes me as an elaborate way of levelling people up whenever the GM feels like it, which IMO distances players from the incentive value of XP.

>>51598530
I agree. My preference is for team XP and unique accomplishments though (rather than seeking out random creatures just to gank them).

>>51592109
>Combat is the failure state. Always look for a way to avoid it and still get what you want.
anyone else here hate that assumption as part of the OSR experience?

>>51599239
Not an assumption, it's built into the game mechanics.

>>51599484
>Not an assumption, it's built into the game mechanics.
hate that too

>>51599239
What's wrong with it?

>>51599239

No, there are more than enough games that are about combat. 5e is right there, why would I want to make OSR into 5e?

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>>51599513
Different strokes for different blokes, maybe OSR isn't for you.

>>51597275
I use minis, but fuck the grid off. Use them more like slightly abstract boardgame pieces. rather then a 100% literal representation of what is going on.

>>51599239
No, it's pretty much what I'm here for. The gold-to-XP incentive is the best rule ever. Basically >>51599602

>>51599614
Just a guess here, but he's probably the type of /osrg/ poster who's only here for the simple rules and so thinks 2E is OSR.

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>>51600293
I agree with everything you said,
>and so thinks 2E is OSR.
but lets not start that shit again.

>>51597491
I did the mostly get XP from treasure - but only for blowing the treasure. Throw a party, buy some stupid books, bribe someone for shits and giggles. Build a reputation. Hire a trainer.

Opens tons of adventure seeds, forcing them to interact with the world.

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>>51600536
I do pretty much the same thing. 1 gp :1 xp for leisure, 2 gp :1 xp for expenses, no xp for purchases related to magic.
Encourages them to blow money quickly, which helps explain why they'd need to go adventuring again.
Also ties into the nice impression of adventures being impulsive and wasteful.

>>51600393
Sorry, not trying to start shit. I just think that's genuinely the division, because for my part I marvel every time someone says it. I guess I should've kept quiet, but I only wrote that for purposes of the explanation, honest.

>>51600835
Don't apologizing, it's worth repeating. It's not worth arguing over.

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>>51594745

>>51595411
Going with alternatives, I recently started used a attache case backgammon set. I can keep my notes and sheets and books in it, there are many chits to use as markers, and dice cups. Easy enough to tacky names on the chits, and there is a nice safe rolling field so that the asshole doesn't send the dice he borrowed rolling under the furniture.

>>51598713
Could make some milestones party-wide. But then you run into the problem of new characters getting auto level boosts jusy for showing up.

Since the fighter fights? His milestones woild be combat oriented, with perhaps some stronghold/army bulding at the higher levels.
A wizards milestones would be about researxhing new spells and the like.
A clerics would be about donating money to the church (gold for xp hat tip)and increasing the deity influence.
Thieves would be about aquiring treasure and money (gp for xp again) and influence.

All these different objectives both provide the party with incentives to adventure together but also create an interesting dynamic where differing personal objectives make for friction in how the party goes about it.

Mite b cool.

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>>51585221
>Cleric of Gwyn (Lawful god of the sun)
>Good Thing: Turns Undead as a Cleric of two higher levels
>Bad Thing: ???
Must memorize at least one light producing spell at each spell level.

Resurrection, yay or nay?

>>51599614
I'll admit 99% of my interest in OSR is for the following reasons;

1. ease of use

2. ease of modification

3. cross-compatibility between most OSR & TSR products

4. sheer volume of available resources

>>51600293
>Just a guess here, but he's probably the type of /osrg/ poster who's only here for the simple rules and so thinks 2E is OSR.
yup

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>>51601662
Yay, but only from NPCs (Gods, Prophets, Demon Lords, etc).
Something along the lines of page 5 from >>51585444
Otherwise, you have to escape the afterlife or roll a new dude.
Or come back as an undead, if your Magic-User is mid-level.

>>51601851
I always wondered how escaping the underworld works. Do you waltz out of a cave, with your full body and all, and then revisit your corpse?

>>51601732
I mean, there's nothing wrong with what you do. It's just not OSR. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Rules-lite is great, and more power for you for following suit.

>>51599513
So start at level 3, make sure your players only encounter creatures they can beat, and give them unlimited opportunities to rest and resupply.

Or look at any decent piece of adventure fiction for stories where even tough bad asses pick their battles.

>>51601448
I see what you mean. I think XP is innately abstract though, so it gets kind of kludgy to try to apply realistic rules to it. Realistically, adults don't get ten times better at something over the course of a couple years of adventuring.

>>51601732
The OSR blogosphere is full of awesome settings, creatures, characters, ideas, etc... there's really nothing to compare it to.

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>>51601917
Depends on the afterlife, but I'd probably run it as you get a spare body.

Possibly with your 'new' body doubling as your soul, as if you were an elemental or an outsider or some shit.
You can come back multiple times, but deaths after the first send you to the afterlife with a mangled soul, etc.

Otherwise, I'd say you have to find *a* corpse, but not necessarily *your* corpse.

>>51601947
>The OSR blogosphere is full of awesome settings, creatures, characters, ideas, etc... there's really nothing to compare it to.
I'm aware, was considering that part of point 4 on my list

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Anyone want to give me some help fixing up my homebrew OSR game here? It's modern fantasy and pretty creative/evocative if I say so myself.

>>51602652
What do you have in mind for rewards/advancement/experience?

>>51602652
Not too far into it, but you could probably omit some needless words.
It would also be nice to use a proper markup language (LaTeX, etc.) but for a rough draft what you've got is fine.

Right off the bat, this:
>There are 5 priority categories.
>Equipment & Cash
>Skills
>Clout & Social Ability
>Health
>Psychic Powers
Seems unnecessary. The char gen rules already tell us we have 5, and immediately re-list them while saying what they do.

Also, why mention Defense near stats? I'd look for that in the combat rules, so I won't find that rule if I'm looking for it.

>>51601947
>Realistically, adults don't get ten times better at something over the course of a couple years of adventuring.
Eh... maybe not from just adventuring, but most people sure as fuck get ten times better at fighting over two years of training, even if it's just 1-2 times a week. I can only imagine how much better than that you'd get if you trained all day every day, like a professional master at arms.

t. HEMA

>>51602941

As for right now, I'd assume that most rewards are developed through play.

Obviously you would get money from being a Gardener (I'll probably change this name though, it kinda bugs me now as slang for 'adventurer') as well as things like social contacts and access to new equipment. Your saves automatically improve as you go and you can improve your skills through training.

I'm not sure what else should advance but I'd assume basically everything; maybe have a method of gaining more max HP the more times you almost die, or a method of getting or improving your psychic abilities?

>>51602953

So you don't think that it should say 'there are 5' and then list them? How else would you do it?

As for Defense I only put it near stats so it was easy to find and by association its a core character feature, but now that I think about it you might be right.

>>51603149
>How else would you do it?
Literally just omit I the lines I quoted.
Char gen instructions already say there are five, and you list them immediately after the lines I quoted.

>>51603256

Oh I see what you mean now, thanks.

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>>51594745

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>>51602652
>Whenever you use a MELEE attack a [...] you deal the weapons damage
If Defense doesn't defend, why not call it Dodge?
>roll d20 vs their Defense
Who wins ties?
>Additionally, you may fire additional shots in an attack.
Additionally, additional additionally's add nothing.
You can actually scrap that whole sentence.
>You may fire as many shots as you wish from the loaded bullets left in the magazine, having a +1 to attack and +1 to damage for each extra bullet.
Fold these into the shooting rules paragraph.
>Rolled to Resist
>Catching yourself from a fall, Fleeing
>Crucial repairs, Avoiding getting lost.
So I make a Knowledge save to *get* lost?? I get what you mean here, but work on your diction.

Skill rules are kinda weak/ambiguous, even by 'open ended skill system' standards.
>Natural Abilities & Race
How does this work for humans?
>Almost all city-folk either own a firearm or can get one through a friend or college.
*City-folk own a firearm or can get one through a friend or colleague.
>Chimneys
When I saw this in 'Equipment & Cash' (which could be shortened to 'Cash') I assumed they were safe houses or hidey-holes.
Weird name is weird. And water is wet.

No ideas about Chimney balance, I assume it's unplaytested? Same deal for Psychic Powers, but Stress is neat.
>Turn yourself into electricity and ride a wire until you hit a breaker or are grounded.
Something, something, inFAMOUS?? Neat tho.

With only 8 powers, Aura-Sight, Dowsing, and Precognition seem redundant.
Probably should have listed 'Common Races' closer to the rules for racial traits. I get that it's just fluff, but it fits better there.
Racial Traits before Common Races is a good way to list them though, especially since you didn't assign Traits to the Common Races.

Why was Carcosa so controversial when it came out?

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>>51603713
I just picked a random page in the spells section. First spell I looked at.

>>51603713
Rape. Murder. Buggery. Take your pick.

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True AD&D™

>>51604029
>"10-100 of the Amphibious Ones"
>not "11-111 (10d10 x 1.11) of the Amphibious Ones"

I'm more offended by the laziness than the edginess to be honest.

>>51604081
Please cease, I own that issue of Dragon and that was a terrible article

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>>51604115
>Please cease
True Anon™ is now obligated to post two more tonight.

>>51580512
Try Orlando from Against the Cult of the Reptile God.

>>51604029
>>51604035
I don't know, I feel like only including rape is abnormal. Especially for an internet scene, they must be aware of far more extreme ERP shit. It's nothing you don't see in lovecraft. Are OSR guys just prudes or was it all just a different environment back in 08? Grognardia's original review is so incredibly cautious, it's as if he's talking about, like, if someone made a genuinely good version of FATAL or something.

I can't imagine it being controversial today. The two-page spread pdf format is more offensive than anything

>>51604235
Not sure what you're getting at here. There isn't really any explicit rape in any lovecraft to my recollection.

I think it bothered people because rape's fucked up, and portraying it in your games is tricky business.

Sex and osr as far as I can tell tends to go either gonzo metalhead towers two, fuck for satan, bad myrmadon, carcosia sort of stuff, or people who don't really care and mostly want people to stop triggering each other over it one way or the other.

>>51603707
>Weird name is weird.

Every single time I talk about my gane people always mention the chimney thing. Is it really that bad? The guns are dirt and spit ash and fire, I thought it was a good name.

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>>51604814
Chimneys make be think of Hearths, and that implication is about as far from guns and violence as you can get.
>The guns are dirt and spit ash and fire, I thought it was a good name.
Smokestack sounds dumb, but it's the closest suggestion I'd give.

>>51604698
The internet is full of completely debased perverts and utterly puritanical prudes, and either group can make life unpleasant if all you were wanting to do was write about games.

"that's offensive to <minority group I may or may not be a part of>" is this decade's "think of the children".

>>51604235
Speaking from personal experience here. I just find it lame. It's like having an annoying wannabe metalhead who thinks that tortuously drawn out descriptions about skullfucking babies is "transgressive" and "shocking" to us normie sheeple and not just tediously embarrassing. Speaking from personal experience here.

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>>51604210

Should I draw roofs on the buildings or just leave them as squares?

>>51605497
Whoops, fucked that post up.

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>>51580512
Couldn't find the exact font, but Myriad Web Pro at 44pt was pretty close.
Re-did all the text for internal consistency.

>>51604115
So the aratha/killer beetle, bichir, calygraunt/feystag, duleep/living web, dark naga, peltast, ascallion, vurgens, and asperii/wind steed are all terrible? Why do they have full MC sheets then?

>>51605992
>aratha/killer beetle
That one was good, as was the explodestool.

>bichir, calygraunt/feystag, duleep/living web, dark naga, peltast, ascallion, vurgens, and asperii/wind steed
Shit.

>Why do they have full MC sheets then?
Because of Ed "creepy man of many fetishes" Greenwood.

>>51605843
>>51605843
Is Demogorgon a neet?

>>51606069
Poor baby pretend to be big old man who hates everything from after Monster Manual II

What were the best parts of each:

a) OD&D
b) AD&D 1e
c) B/X (holmes, moldvay, cook)
d) BECM (and I if you have a case for it)
e) AD&D 2e

I'm talking rules from core books only.

>>51606571
>OD&D

Rules for running away!

>AD&D 1e

Harlot tables! Also weapon speed factor is kinda neat!

>B/X

Like OD&D but clearer and simpler!

>BECM

Not simpler!

>AD&D 2e

Easy to reference!

>>51606595
>weapon speed factor is kinda neat

delet this

>>51606571

a) digest sized
b) Gygaxian prose
c) covers
d) the balls Mentzer had to release the M box
e) the balls Williams had to release the 2nd ed

>>51603707

Anything about actual ruled instead of just bitching about how it's written?

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>>51606831
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not about to playtest it, and if anyone is they won't be getting back to you for at least a weak.
There are no glaring mechanical flaws. You can take editing or compliments, but we have nothing else we could possibly offer.

>Anything about actual ruled
I still don't get how Defense is supposed to work.
Melee seems to hit automatically. Defense is just for ranged attacks, right?

>>51605992
Also utukku

>>51607068

Hey I appreciate all your help.

As for Defense I couldn't honestly find a very good word for it besides that. Truthfully calling is AC would be bad, since it clashes with the modern gunfighting aesthetic, evasion is also kind of wrong since armor helps.

As for Melee; yes I did make Melee attacks just hit automatically. This may seem OP but this was only done in an attempt to make them at least situationally useful compared to firearms, which can easily kill people considering how high damage they can deal with extra bullets fired, range, and general deadliness.

>>51604814
I think it's weird too, but for a completely different reason. Where I'm from, "chimney" means a black eye, so every time I read it...

Figure that's not a universal problem though so I never said anything.

>>51608611
Maybe deflection?

>>51604814
I think it's just unusual/distinctive is all. It's like hearing new slang. The first time you hear a slang term, it almost always sounds weird, in my opinion. A name that's less unusual wouldn't strike as many people as being off-kilter, but probably wouldn't be as memorable either. But if you're concerned about people's reaction to it, you could always do a straw poll.

>>51604855
>Smokestack sounds dumb, but it's the closest suggestion I'd give.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w83Q110GtDQ

You could call 'em pipes too, though that's maybe less evocative. "Heater" is already a term for guns.

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I have a question for you guys, since I'm not too in touch with old school style games.

I have a system I've been looking at (Grit and Vigor) and it seems to use fairly standard systems, but there's something I'm confused on. Here's the text from the "Saves" section:

"FORTITUDE (FORT) represents physical toughness. Fortitude saving throws helps you survive poison, paralyzation, disease and blunt trauma.
REFLEX (REF) represents quickness and balance. A Reflex save helps you survive a fall, bomb blast or death ray.
WILL (WILL) represents mental strength and helps you survive supernatural phenomena, fear and temptation.
A saving throw is given as a number that ranges between 3 and 20. To make a saving throw for a character, a player rolls 1d20 and attempts to equal or exceed that value. To this roll, they add their Constitution modifier for Fortitude saving throws, their Dexterity modifier for Reflex saving throws and their Wisdom modifier for Will saving throws. For creatures, VM’s roll 1d20, adding no modifiers, and try to equal or exceed the listed saving throw value for that creature."

Now, I read that as "choose a difficulty rating to roll over depending on how hard the task is"

But throughout the system there are little panels with what appear to be premade characters based off historical and fictional people. And they have statblocks like

"CN Gentleman, LVL 5, HP 20, AC 10, MV 40, ATK +3, SV F13 R9 W14, Str 9 Int 11 Wis 6 Dex 9 Con 11 Cha 13"

the "SV F13 R9 W14" are I assume "Save vs" then the numbers they have to roll over. I assumed that was because they were NPCS and thus just had numbers to beat. But I looked at the character sheet and it also has little sections for Fort, Ref and Will.

Am I missing something? Maybe something obvious to players of OSR games that was just left unsaid?

>>51610276
You're not missing anything - saves are static values. The idea was to not have effect difficulties scale, so that when players actually level up, they get better at making saves, without the environments growing to match them.

>>51610276
As >>51610656 indicated, old school D&D doesn't work according to the "d20 mechanic". That is, you aren't rolling the die, adding a number and trying to overcome a particular target number. Instead of a bonus that you add to your roll, your stat *is* your target number. So if it's 14, you need to roll 14 or over (or sometimes 14 or under for something like an attribute check). Now, this roll may be modified by something like your attribute modifier, but it's more of an "oh, by the way" sort of thing and not the mainstay of how things work. As a result, you don't usually see the same sort of scaling (with rising bonuses to compete with rising target numbers). As far as saving throws go, they get increasingly easy to make as you go up levels, providing, amongst other things, a counterbalance to the power of high level casters. A high level wizard can cast a spell that does a ton of damage or one that instantly kills you, but if your character is high level, they'll have a lot of hit points and will almost certainly make their saving throw against the instant death spell.

>>51610276
Going off on a tangent here, but
>since I'm not too in touch with old school style games.
in most OSR, the saves are:
• vs. Death (immobilization or outright death)
• vs. Rod (magic items)
• vs. Polymorph (shape change)
• vs. Breath (non-magical monster powers)
• vs. Spells (magic spells)
That list is *in* order, if multiple saves could describe an effect then you use whichever is earliest on that list.

I'm starting to work on a homebrew OSR-esq thing loosely based off b/x style rules. I'm just wondring if there's any retroclone that uses a 3d6 system rather than a 1d20. I prefer bell curves and average performance as the norm rather than the swingyness you get out of a d20.

>>51613445
3d6 for to-hit rolls? I can't think of any right now, but wouldn't you need to rebalance the whole combat system if you were to do that?

Actually, maybe you can check out the Chainmail combat system? That one uses 2d6 but it's pretty different from the "standard" D&D combat system.

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>>51613445
LBB does something similar (2d6), since you use the CHAINMAIL man-to-man table when checking to-hit.
But it also built weapon quality into the table, so on-hit rolls are 1d6 regardless of weapon. (c >>51588586)

>>51613445
>I'm just wondring if there's any retroclone that uses a 3d6 system rather than a 1d20
Not to my knowledge, but isn't it extremely easy to just replace the rolls?

Chainmail might be worth a look, as Chainmail Man-To-Man and Fantasy Combat (and thus LBB combat without the alternative system) uses 2d6.

>>51613590
>>51613596
>>51613647
Chainmind

>>51613590
>>51613596
>>51613647
Thanks for the advice. I'm looking to build a system that would let me run "modern era D&D fantasy" if that makes sense. I haven't seen one that I really like, so I figured I'd just do things the hard way and build my own.

>>51613590
>>51613596
>>51613647
3d6 in combat?
Sounds like a job for GURPS: Man-to-Man

>>51614183
I think you mean Melee, newschool storygaming scum.

>>51613590
>>51613596
>>51613647
Why are we all linking these?

>tfw love the Unknown Armies magic system but can't really incorporate it into OSR

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Question:

1. How many players do you have at your table?

2. Do you allow them to have more than one character?

I'm asking because I have a group of 2, and from past experiences, I thought they could handle the OSR by themselves, but they are quickly being ground down by the first few rooms of dungeon #1. Players are having fun, but are also getting frustrated.

>>51615400
>tfw no Murderhobomancer adept school

Wait, wouldn't that just be Violence?

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I'm looking for some really good "What's In Their Pocket/Bag" tables. I'm sure there's a thousand already so I don't want to make my own.

>>51615454
>I have a group of 2, and from past experiences, I thought they could handle the OSR by themselves, but they are quickly being ground down by the first few rooms of dungeon #1. Players are having fun, but are also getting frustrated.

Go to RPGnow and grab Black Streams (it's free)

>>51615454

This right here: >>51615539

Most old school modules assume a big party, of like 6-8 people at a minimum. If you've only got two players, Black Streams will ramp up their power to the point that they don't need anyone else, and can go all Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser on the world.

>>51591479
How does this apply to elves and dwarves and halflings? Do they just start with more benefits or what?

>>51615454
I usually end up with 3-4 players depending on the week. I tend to let them play 2 each if they can manage to keep them well separated, but it mostly ends up being me encouraging them to have followers, mooks, mercs and retainers as they go up in level.

>>51615539
Seconding this if they want to do it with a smaller party. They'll maraud through stuff with even 2 of them.

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>>51615532
I really like this one.

>>51615454
>Do you allow them to have more than one character?
3-5, but only one per adventure.
If they die they play a hireling, unless they immediately justify another character being around the corner (doesn't need to be a reasonable explanation, they just need to have one).

>>51615454
>1. How many players do you have at your table?
Usually 4-6.

>2. Do you allow them to have more than one character?
Yes. Only one of the players are doing it though.

>>51580151
What is the best skill system for an OSR-styled game?

>>51615940
Either classic percentage, LotFP's system, or no system at all.

>>51616020
Thnx senpai. What's LotFP's system? Isn't it something like a 'X in 6 chance' to do something?

>>51616487
Yeah, it's a pretty simple system. Basically everyone has a 1-in-6 chance to succeed with a skill, but specialists (LotFP's variant of thief) gets extra points to put in the skills. The demihumans also get a bigger chance in certain skills. Also high ability scores can potentially give bonuses to some skills.

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Was the fail ever used outside of shield fighting?

>>51616020
>>51616705
How does the classic percentage system work? I'm >>51616487 this poster's roommate and we're trying to settle on how we're going to do skills in our upcoming game.

Players and GM alike prefer skills because they flesh out characters and give a good, formulaic way to resolve non-combat issues, but on the other hand we all hate 3.5-style skills; it's easy to trivialize any skill check.

I'm GMing the thing so I'm open to trying something wacky for skills as long as it sounds interesting, but I've never done an old school game with skills before so I don't know what fits exactly.

>>51615940
3d6 roll under your ability score

special training gives extra dice to roll, discarding down to 3d6

>>51616804
Classic percentage works in the way that the thief (and only the thief, unless you're playing some special retroclone) has a percentage chance of succeeding something, and that percentage chance goes up when the thief levels up. Many critique the system for making many skills have too small of a chance at success at low levels, but this has been addressed in various retroclones and can also probably be tweaked by the DM.

You should be aware of that there's a couple anons in these generals who believe that skill systems and even the thief was a mistake that ruined parts of the original dungeon-crawling game. Before the thief class, in the very first version of D&D (OD&D LBB), it could be assumed that all classes and PCs were thieves in some sense, and they all had the same chance to succeed with skills (although they didn't function like "skills"). Some OSR players prefer to have those challenges have less to do with rules and systems and more with "fictional-positioning", and that basically means freeforming exploration and experimentation.

But anyway, I'd suggest that you check out some systems rather than asking here for now. LotFP, Basic Fantasy RPG and Labyrinth Lord might be good places to start. Dungeon Crawl Classics has a thief skill system that's a bit closer to the 3e DC system, if you think you're more comfortable with that.

>>51616796
Horsemen seem to have used them in certain times and places - makes sense with the reach and momentum advantage, but I'd be worried about braining my own horse.

>>51617071
PS. Just so you know, Dungeon Crawl Classics is a bit of an oddball system and is pretty crunchy for OSR, so if you find it to be too daunting, don't bother with it for now.

>>51616796
If peasants were grabbing blunt objects, threshers were an OK choice. But flails weren't a real weapon. Period.

>>51617071
>>51617111
Thanks. I've not GMed an oldschool system, I just played some ancient D&D that also had homebrew rules sewn into it, so I'm a novice when it comes to this stuff.

I've actually read LotFP adventures before, I just don't know the rules to the game.

I'll check out Dungeon Crawl Classics and get my hands on LotFP core as well as Labyrinth Lord because it sounds boss.

How do iron spikes wedge doors shut? Do you hammer them into the ground to block the door, or do you hammer them into the crack somehow?

What if you're on the outside of a door (where it opens inwards into a room), can you still jam it?

>>51617203
Cool dude, good luck. Hopefully OSR games are to you and your group's liking.

>>51617260
I always imagined it like a really aggressive doorstop.

>>51610656
Ok, but how do you get those numbers?

>>51610789
Wait, how does that make any sense? That means that as your stats got better, you'd have harder rolls. a guy with 3 stat would have to roll 3 by your explaination, meaning the slowest, sickest, dumbest people would pass their checks more than the better stat'd characters. Remember that the save description said "Equal or exceed" not roll under.

It also doesn't make sense for those stat blocks because the fort save for the first one is 13 and he has 11 Con. Similarly wis is 6 and Will save is 14.

Inverting it might make sense for wis and will, but not for con and fort.

>>51617260

You hammer them into the crack around the door. That means if the door swings the other way you may be unable to jam it. Not that I usually worry about which way a door swings when I GM.

>>51617525
>Ok, but how do you get those numbers?


They're in the book?

>>51617636
Fuck. They are. Never mind, I'm stupid.

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>>51617830

We've all been there, anon.

>>51617525
>Wait, how does that make any sense? That means that as your stats got better, you'd have harder rolls. a guy with 3 stat would have to roll 3 by your explaination, meaning the slowest, sickest, dumbest people would pass their checks more than the better stat'd characters. Remember that the save description said "Equal or exceed" not roll under.
I don't quite follow what you're saying, but as you level up, your saving throw numbers get lower, and therefore better. (Or at least they do in old school D&D. Fort / Ref / Will are borrowed from modern D&D, so I'm not sure exactly how the system you're talking about goes.) According to the standard ranges, the only attribute in the CN Gentleman you provided that are high or low enough to give you a modifier is Wisdom, which would give you a penalty--probably -1. So you would roll your die, subtract 1 from the result, and try to equal or exceed your Will of 14. Or that's the theory. In reality, it's easier to just go ahead and modify your Will stat (which maybe has already been done*); you just have to remember that a -1 modifier is bad, so you need to invert the bonus and add 1 to your Will save stat, making it 1 point worse. Was this your source of confusion? Old school D&D can be a bit wonky with regards to the pluses and minuses from modifiers, and the easiest way to do them is just to understand how the system works and treat +1 as "1 point better" and -1 as "1 point worse".

*It probably already has been done. Assuming the system mirrors modern D&D, each class / monster will have 2 different levels of saves: strong and weak. Given the "F13 R9 W14" in your block, Fortitude and Will are probably weak saves and equal before his Constitution penalty of 1 is applied.

Does that help out?

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>>51613445
I'm just going to remind you that most of the "swinginess" that a d20 has over 3d6 is due to having a different scale. The standard deviation of 3d6 is only about half of the standard deviation of a d20, so a +1 bonus in the former is, on average, worth about a +2 bonus on the latter. That puts 3d6 on the same basic scale as a d10. Now obviously, 3d6 has a bell curve with attenuated ends, but putting the two dice on the same scale drastically reduces any "swinginess" a d20 has over 3d6. Now maybe you already realized that, and maybe you want to use the same bonus scheme and have each plus mean twice as much, but I feel like a lot of time people talk about swinginess, they don't properly understand the factors at play. I mean, you don't compare a d20 to a d% and claim that the d20 is less swingy because a +1 does almost nothing on a d% and everything ends up staying too close to a 50/50 chance.

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>>51618444

Dude, are you having a stroke?

>>51618505
Are you? Look, someone posted material from after the publication of the Fiend Folio / Monster Manual II and it wasn't a ripoff "retroclone"! Attack, attack! Someone's posting actual TSR material with proper formatting! Hide your head in the sand lest you see True AD&D™ and be struck permanently flaccid by its majesty.

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>>51618555

Dude, chill. He didn't care for those monsters, no need to lose your shit. Here have a cute horse.

Using the d20 as a randomization method was a mistake. It's a die fit only for modeling the effect of playing an incompetent bungler.

>>51618794
Something something PCs something something murderhobos something something ELEGANT.

>>51618794
I think the only reason it gets used these days is because it's iconic, very rarely is actual thought put into what your choice of dice does for the game.

>>51618794
>>51618941
>>51618992

Is this ironic shitposting, or regular shitposting? I can't tell anymore.

>>51619012
Hey I was funposting. Don't confuse me for the other two dorks.

>>51619012
My shitposting is legitimate. 2d6 was and still would be, a better choice.

>>51619132
No you weren't, I was.

>>51619132
>>51619174
I'm legitimately just a dork.

>>51619170

Okay, I'll bite. Why would that be a better choice?

>>51619284
Bellcurve, more consistent results and less chance of repeatedly wasting time with missed checks, thus keeping the game moving more quickly without completely removing the possibility of failure.

>>51618656
Don't worry, I'll never mar your eyes with my material again. It's clearly not wanted, you're having it deleted.

Don't download my shit from MageGuru's trove either.

>>51604081
Delete this one too. It's not a retroclone so you'd better delete it like the other.

>>51619339
this is one hell of a tantrum over nothing hey

>>51619313

I get liking bellcurves, but you know that's an aesthetics thing, not a math thing, right? Having a 15% chance of failure is a 15% chance of failure whether is on a d20, 2d6, d100, or whatever.

>>51618555
>>51619339
>>51619366
>he thinks his post was deleted because some shadowy retroclone cabal controls /tg/ and not because of his /tv/-tier shitpost

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Say a hex is 5 miles, what's the distance from hex A to hex B?

>>51619547
5 miles.

>>51619561
So it's the difference between hexes, not up to and including the final hex?

>>51619494
>but you know that's an aesthetics thing, not a math thing, right?
A target number is a target number is a target number,
but transitions between numbers have more variance.

Bonuses become less valuable the more bonuses you have.
Penalties become less punishing the more penalties you have.

>>51619547
I'd consider that 10.

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>>51619547

D=2s thus D/2=s

5/2=2.5

s is the distance between A & B thus it is 2.5 miles

>>51619547
10, right? From my understanding, you move in hexes, not in between them. It might look silly when drawn out, but you can also justify it by saying that the walker starts in the middle of A and ends in the middle of B. Either way, two encounters can happen.

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>>51619631
>>51619909

>>51620159
My point is that the exact distance doesn't matter because in game, the PCs don't "move in hexes". The hexcrawl system is only there so that there's a game with rules going on. If I wanted exact distance traveling, I would use a detailed map and a ruler.

>>51618555
>Hide your head in the sand lest you see True AD&D™ and be struck permanently flaccid by its majesty.
ngl, this cracked me up unreasonable-style

>>51619909
Hexes are inherently an abstraction, so it's pretty silly to put an exact distance on them imo. Define the area of a hex, give the party a speed in hexes and don't worry about anything more exact then that.

>>51619547
Technically as >>51619815 pointed out one side is equal to half the point-to-point diameter of the hex, so assuming the PCs move from center of hex to center of hex as they move, the distance move would be 3s = 7.5 miles.

However in practice I'd just adjudicate that as moving two hexes and thus 10 miles. It's much simpler and saving 1/4 of movement distance on the oblique diagonals isn't worth fucking around. It's just a game abstraction, like hit points or exploration turns.

>>51620944
DISASSOCIATED
MECHANICS

>>51620995
It's necessary for a verisimilitudinous milieu!

Plus I like 4E, so you can eat my toilet gravy

>>51620159
Oh yeah, good point. I forgot that the five miles isn't actually the point diameter but the side diameter, but that's totally true.

>>51621016
Mang I like 4E too, I was just poking fun at that particular kind of grog.

Also I'm not into scat, ew.

>>51620916
I agree with you. The guy said that the hex length was 5 miles, and I believe that the distance between A and B should be 2 hexes, so to answer his question, I said 10 miles.

>>51621064
Yeah, wasn't meaning to argue with you or anything. Just wanted to chime in and yours was the latest post when I started typing.

>shitposters turn out to have been mutually joking
>a misunderstanding is resolved quickly and without anger in the space of three posts
>not even True AD&D losing his elephant completely leads to much of a kerfuffle

Fuck, I probably shouldn't tempt fate, but it's good to have you back, /osrg/.

>>51619547

If the side of a hex is 5 miles, the distance between opposite vertices is 10 miles, and the distance between opposite sides is 5 × sqrt(3) ≈ 8.66 miles. Which dimension of your hex is 5 miles?

Are there any downsides with Adventurer Conqueror King that I need to know about before running it?

>>51623682
Thief advancement is a bit harsh, and you may want to consider bumping them a bit.

How do I convert d6 skill rolls into a percentile?

>>51623682
Allegedly the rules for domain populations or something are glitched and the devs released a standalone eratta for them.

>>51623682
Thief skills are kinda bad by default, otherwise I can't really think of anything major

>>51623883
You divide 100% by 6, then multiply by the number of pips you're interested in.
You have to be 18 to post here. My guess would be you're 7?

>>51623883
1-in-6 = 16.7%
2-in-6 = 33.3%
3-in-6 = 50%
4-in-6 = 66.7%
5-in-6 = 83.3%
6-in-6 = 100%

Math is your friend.

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What did /osrg/ think of Grimgar back when it was relevant?

>>51624010

Izzat one of them newfangled japanimations?

>>51624010
I remember watching the entire series through 100%, taking about a week or so to think about it, and even today, looking back on it, I'm still not sure if I should drop it or not.

>>51623682
A major downside for me was the 3.5e style feats. Which they called proficiencies.

Basically, many things would be prohibited or have major penalties if you didn't have certain profs. Which leads to "builds" which leads to the death of having fun, imo.

Economy and domain stuff is good though

What the fuck do I run for a Stranger Things styled game? I don't give a fuck about OSR resource management; I just prefer it's mechanics.

>>51624286
Run Action Castle!, honestly. A theme like that benefits more from Adventure Games than a TRPG.

>>51623682
>>51624265
The proficiencies are pretty modular, and I actually forgot they were in the game. You can ignore them with little pain.

>>51624286
either Whitehack or Into The Odd would probably work fine for that purpose

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How do you guys handle exactly what sort of arcane esoterica a wizard might or might not know at any given moment? Just a simple INT check?

>>51625430
Tell them however much you think feels appropriate.
So less information (if any) on foreign/extraplanar magic, higher level MU → more information, etc.

>>51625430
You just ask yourself a very simple question before you decide on any roll whatsoever. And this question is true for all games regardless of system or mechanics.

"Does it make sense for a [gender/race/class/profession] to know the answer to this question?"

Example that came up recently while playing Morgansfort:

There's a room that has a bunch of dust on the floor that will ignite and explode if it touches fire. The trap is that the dust will kick up slowly over time through the narrative until the players mention specifically that they slow down to search.

They found it very quickly and the wizard asks me "Hey, do I know how this dust works or what it will do?". So then I ask myself the question. "Does it make sense for a wizard to know what combustible powder is and how it works?" Well, yes, that sounds like it makes sense. But the wizard is also level 1, so I don't think he knows that MUCH about it. So I tell him it's something that is rare but commonly seen in wizard alchemical labs and that he would have to send some off to his teacher to find out the effects of it mixing with other chemicals like oil and water.

In contrast, I'll often get questions of "Do I know what this monster is?", which I'll usually ask "Does it make sense that a thief knows what a carrion crawler is?" To me, the answer to that question is "no, it doesn't". BUT, that thief wrote an extensive background on how he is a professional real estate appraiser that specializes in dungeon settings, so I ask "Does it make sense that a professional dungeon appraiser knows what a carrion crawler is?" instead of the previous question, so I say yes instead.

I would only really roll the dice if I were to ask a question that I was 50-50 on the fence about.

>>51624420
I had the opposite experience. Any time I wanted to do something out of the ordinary, it would turn out it was covered by some proficiency I didn't have. Maybe my DM was just a stickler for that shit, but the rules certainly encouraged it.

Other OSR games:
Player: "I want to do this stupid thing."
DM: "Uhh, roll under X ability score, I guess"

ACKS:
Player: "I want to do this stupid thing."
DM: "Do you have the proficiency?"
Player: "no."
DM: "You have to roll at -4 whilst tounging my butthole you worthless piece of shit. How dare you try to do anything that wasn't specifically gifted to you in your class abilities"

>>51627169
proficiencies are completely optional though

>>51627383
So is the butt tonguing, it's just not the same without it.

>>51627383
then I would reccommend to all that they play ACKS without them.

>>51627169
>I had the opposite experience. Any time I wanted to do something out of the ordinary, it would turn out it was covered by some proficiency I didn't have.

>DM: "Do you have the proficiency?"
>Player: "no."
>DM: "You have to roll at -4

Is this really how ACKS does proficiencies? I assumed it worked that you got bonuses to things if you had a proficiency, rather than give you a minus if you don't have the proficiency. That just seems like an awful system.

>>51606595
If you like weapon speed you might like second based combat systems like in Aces & Eights or Hackmaster.

>>51629909
>Aces & Eights

That reminds me. Has anyone here played Boot Hill and can vouch for it's quality?

>>51630666

I've not played it myself, but the subject has come up in talking to folks over the years. General consensus seems to be that it's great if you want a gritty historical western kind of thing where life is cheap and the best course of action is to hide under cover and ambush a guy from behind, which happened a lot in actual western history.
It's not so great if you want a Hollywood western with stuff like two man walking down the main street at high noon for a shootout, 'cause that's probably gonna get you killed, hero.

Anyone have a pdf of Runequest 1st edition? I've been looking for a good one but can't seem to find anything.

Do you use alignment languages in your game, /tg/? As dumb as they are, they do answer some questions about how characters could possibly enforce alignment restrictions. Like, say you're a paladin. You need to only hire lawful good henchmen or you fall. You can tell when someone is evil, but aside from that you can't tell exactly what anyone's alignment is. Unless, that is, you conduct all your job interviews in Lawful Good.

>>51630883
I play a game that has alignment rules by default and I always remove them completely.

It never adds anything to the game except stupid arguments.

>>51630883

I don't think they're dumb. Being granted a magical tongue by the cosmic Lords of Law when you swear fealty to them seems kind flavorful to me.

>>51627383
Not everybody is so into the theorycrafting behind games to know why an option exists or what it does. To a casual gamer, an "additional option" looks a lot like a fun new toy.

Anyone have a play report of Into the Odd? I started out just mining it for fluff but I think I've become smitten.

Do you know any fantasy low leveladventurer comics or webcomics?

>>51630760
This sounds really similar to how early D&D contrasts with people's heroic-fantasy expectations, actually. I'm not the guy who originally asked, but I like Boot Hill already.

>>51631697
Dungeon Meshi.

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>>51580512
>Looking for examples of town maps with OSR feel.
Forgive Us, Better than Any Man, and People of Pembrooktonshire all have lovely little maps inside (pic is from Forgive Us).

Scenic Dunnsmouth has a procedural generation system. To make it generic requires:
• One or more d12 tables for "special" buildings. Use different colors of dice if you have more than one table. These are usually magical complications or major government/commercial edifices in SD. You can shift to d10s if you want.
• A way of generating "families" of NPCs. Can be as simple as a pregen d100 table, using the d6 roll (exploding?) as the number of people in the household. SD uses a standard poker deck, with each suit representing a family, but frankly that's not all that great for generating more than a handful of villages. The "Jobs" table in Vornheim is useful here, although most villages will be strongly agricultural, built around logging, or pastoral.
• A d8 per temple/church/major faith in the region, with the dice indicating the relative power of the faiths in the town. If you're feeling historical, a gap of more than a couple points means that the lower one(s) are repressed in the area. Woot! Faction time!
• Draw a river/road along one side, or a well. Add another river/road through the middle of town. Boom. Done.


You could also add a d10 to represent the strength and location of the local government if you want, maybe even with a table of different types of structure.

In the Judges' Guild folder in the Trove, there's also "The Magebird Quest", which has a bunch of small, simple villages but no real generation system.

>>51631697
http://elf-comic.thecomicseries.com/comics/1

He even drops character sheets for some of the characters. Just love this comic. I'd subscribe to a monthly book if I could.

>>51630883
The language of Law is not!Latin, it's the 'serious' language for 'modern' literature.
Most people fluent in it only use it for writing.

The language of Chaos is not!Thieves' Cant, it's a bunch of jargon you slip into 'normal' conversation.
The written equivalent is essentially hobo signs. Plus maybe some potent occult symbols.

The 'language' of Neutrality is just being able to pick up most normal subtext.
Law and Chaos are bad at that, because they're fundamentally constrained to viewpoints.
They're bad at empathy for the same reason.

I use Druids, but only as NPCs. They don't have a 'secret' language, just a foreign one.
Everyone can talk to animals, and sprites, and plants, and shit where they come from.

Not using Thieves, but I've already commandeered Thieves' Cant.
I'd probably give Thieves the Neutral *and* Chaos languages, regardless of alignment?

>>51631839
>dungeon Meshi
>low level
They're near name level.

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Which OSR rules you recommend me to run a Night Land inspired game?

>>51630883
Why would you have 9 separate alignment languages jesus christ. Use law-neutral-chaos, and have them reflective of the character's places within a cosmic struggle, not a shithouse way of cataloguing personalities.

>>51630859
No, but I've heard it's more or less identical to the 2nd edition, which you can find easily enough in the pdf request thread.

>>51632353
I thought the Night Lands was about really existential stuff? If so I'd use a storygame instead.

Otherwise DCC if you want rules-heavy or The Black Hack + splats if you want rules-light.

>>51632353
My first thought would be Into the Odd (perhaps with the "powered weapons" on his blog for some of the more exotic weapons and devices), but I think several could be adapted. It would mostly be on you to translate the weird settings and creatures anyways.

It's a classless system with no casters (but relatively abundant magic items that tend to be more complicated and difficult to use the more powerful they are).

>>51631697
Someone on /a/ was talking about an old manga called Ozanari Dungeon.

>>51629485
Not everything. But I do recall being cock-blocked in various ways by a combination of proficiencies and a less than permissive DM.

As soon as I realised I was having to plan my build ahead like 3.5e I became severely depressed. I stopped eating. I had no libido. I shut myself off from friends and family. I had restless sleep.

Then DCC took advantage of my vulnerable mental state. Now I'm in a happy and committed relationship with Moldvay/Cook B/X.

>>51633287
>>51633287
New Thread

>>51633165
I see. I'm still attached to DCC myself. I just can't leave, damn it!

>>51632758
If we didn't like the weird and arbirary ways Gygax did things back in the day, we wouldn't be in this thread.

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>>51633429
Pretty sure Gygax did Law - Balance - Chaos, +unaffiliated, then added Good and Evil because philistines using Chaos=Evil got confused by Mindflayers (et al.) being aligned to Law.

Ayy... page 11.

We ded nao.