/osrg/ OSR General

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>Question of the Thread:
• Booze and Whores, or a Wunderkammer?

>>51475690
This was basically Star Trek, right?

Lots of retroclones like to give the cleric a spell at level 1, but original B/X had the cleric get their first spell at level 2.
How do you do it?

>>51477300
No clerics.

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If you're doing a more futuristic type of OSR, how do you balance technology with class abilities?

For instance if you can buy medical kits, battle droids, hacking devices, teleporters or many other crazy useful and powerful pieces of technology how do you keep it from overshadowing your actual characters and classes?

>>51477620
I tend to make them limited use, rare, dangerous to use, socially stigmatized, etc. The players end up using them to solve puzzles and such.

Its easier in a post apocalyptic sort of future. Or at least post-pretty-bad-stuff. They're essentially scrolls and potions for spells with technological trappings.

Not having stores where you can just buy teleporters, phase rilfes, fully functional combat androids or other powerful shit helps too. These things have to exist in some sort of societal and legal framework rather than a soda machine with hand grenades in it.

>>51477726
Although now that I typed it, in a really gonzo post apoc game, a soda machine filled with handgrenades seems dope. They'd have to find proper change or a way to open it that bypasses the animetronic DangerPop mascot.

>>51477620
pretty much how Mass Effect does it's classes is how I'd do a Sci-Fi OSR game

>>51477300
If I'm using Clerics, they get their spell at level 2.
A fresh party needs to manage without healing.

>>51477772
>or a way to open it that bypasses the animetronic DangerPop mascot
There's no guard, but it's rigged to blow all the grenades when forced open.

>>51477208
Ale and Wenches.

>>51477208
>Booze and Whores, or a Wunderkammer?
I'm not sure what distinction you're after here, so instead I'll suggest a Wunderkammer *containing* booze and whores -- the most bizarre booze, the most exotic whores, collected by anyone this side of Augsburg!

>>51480459
Well... when the LBBs were first written, they were a supplement to CHAINMAIL.
During a CHAINMAIL campaign, you'd delve the dungeon and use the loot to raise an army.

But post-CHAINMAIL, getting treasure isn't a means to an end. It is its own end.
>I'm not sure what distinction you're after here
After a successful adventure, what do you blow all your money on?

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Dragons, Advanced Dungeons & (True)

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I've been slowly losing interest in OSR for the past few months. I don't know why.

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>>51480849
Additional

This is probably the best place for this question:

Does anyone know of any good additional resources / hacks / fan material for Into the Odd?

>>51480885
It comes and goes, mang. Don't sweat it too much. Read other games, or do other nerd things.

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Rolled 16 (1d100)

>>51480849
If TRUE AD&D is a platonic form, can you visit the Outer Plane of TRUE AD&D?
What sort of forked rod tuning fork would you need to Plane Shift there?

>>51468241
>

>>51480904
not really, but have you dug through the author's blog, he's posted a ton of additional content for Into The Odd, and I'm sure he'll have linked to fan content at some point or another

>>51481009
Weren't the Forms more about the Aether than the Astral (a concoction more of new age hippies)?

Perhaps, then, on a demiplane within the Ethereal one may find True AD&D™. Though if one found the Ethereal, or any plane, one would have already found True AD&D™ for it would be running in True form, adjudicated by universal DM forces.

>>51481098
Well, I haven't read any of the dialogues. So I guess ill take your word for it.
But not by AD&D cosmology, nope. The Outer Planes *are* the platonic forms.

>>51481030

I've seen a few things on his blog and a few others (Retired Adventurer had some, i know)

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>>51481098
>Though if one found the Ethereal, or any plane, one would have already found True AD&D™
But the edition with the best Ethereal (the best planes in general, really) was Rules Cyclopedia!

>>51480885
>I've been slowly losing interest in OSR for the past few months.
Play something else. Mix it up. You can leave and come back whenever you want. We're not a cult.

>>51481335
>the best planes in general, really
some might call me a heretic, but I like 4e's cosmology the best, and it's a damn shame that the PoLand default setting got abandoned in 5e for fucking Forgotten Realms, which is in my opinion the worst and most boring of any official D&D setting and I have no idea how anyone can like it(this applies to the main part of the setting, not so much Al Qadim)

>>51481484
I won't call you a heretic. Forgotten Realms is shit and 4E had some good stuff. I like Chernoggar more than Acheron and Kalandurren was a cool concept.

>>51481453
>We're not a cult.

What? Now you tell me! What am I gonna do with this ritual headdress I've been crafting?

>>51481484
I think it's accepted usage to understand shitting on FR to refer to the main, Waterdeep-centered setting and not any of the freestanding bolted-on settings.

>>51481638
>What am I gonna do with this ritual headdress I've been crafting?
Combine it with obsidian lenses of the hideous snake men and burn 402 brown men alive in a specially-built wooden longhouse on the shore of the ocean, on August 14th.

>>51481638
Save it for Mardi Gras. It might get you laid.

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The Forgotten Realms are vast—so much so that it's likely people have forgotten how dank they are, and areas that are dank.

I don't know how to link to a previous thread, but...

>A still better question would be why the fuck did Gygax mention Tractics, a tank-focused miniatures wargame, as a great potential crossover for AD&D.

Funny this was mentioned since my current game is basically this. On that note, any of you have resources for desert campaigns or suggestions from the trove?

>>51481598
>>51481643
thanks, nice to get a reasonable response

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>>51481819
>Gygax suggested Those Who Hunt Elves twenty years early
I like him even more now.

>>51481793
So sell us on Chult, Anon.
What's so dank about it?
Is it a chult favorite?

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>>51481793
>Port Nyanzaru

>>51481484
The Shadowfell was a nice blend of the Neg. Energy Plane and Ravenloft
The Elemental Chaos was nice and thematic, but it was a weird place to put the Abyss
The Astral Sea, like all Astral Planes (except OD&D and Basic) is boring
Astral Domains were well done, for what they were meant to be, wasn't a fan of the scale though

The Feywilds seemed really, really out of place
And for the life of me, I don't know who thought adding Sigil was a good idea


But Eberron, Eberron had a~ Fan~Tas~Tic~ multiverse

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Rolled 72 (1d100)

>>51481638
Dice on this chart.

>>51481819
so is it your players having a tank, or them fighting tanks

also I just realized a campaign where the endboss is a Bolo or OGRE tank would be amazing

>>51482016
>>51482016
>The Feywilds seemed really, really out of place
I dunno I thought making Faerie Land one of the primary locales for D&D was a brilliant idea

also I think we can all agree that the two Wizards Presents books(Races And Classes, & Worlds And Monsters) were brilliant books(they're still two of my absolute favorite D&D books)

>>51481950
Not that Anon, but it's not!Africa.
Mostly human, but there's a bunch of lizardfolk too.
They're scared of magic, and tolerate only one Magic-User per tribe/village.
Any more than that, and they start lynching.

Incidentally, Chult has lots of spiteful Magic-Users who've been forced to live alone in the jungle.

>>51482101
>I think we can all agree that the two Wizards Presents books(Races And Classes, & Worlds And Monsters) were brilliant books
It's weird, the 5E playtest was also much better than what we ended up getting IMO. Which means... the designers there are doing good work, which is then shot down by some marketing flack or similar?

>>51482260
well I'd say 4E was overall pretty great, only real problem is how much of a timesink it is to run or prep for(well outside of some early monster math issues and most of the adventures sucking)

also while 5E definitely has issues it's definitely still a decent game

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>>51482291
4e is pic. done right.
5e is 3e done better.

>>51482291
To me 5E feels too... corporate is not the word. I've heard "extruded D&D product" somewhere else and think it fits. 4E and 3.x had the issues we already know after all these years but there was a sense of "hey, let's play a game dude, it's gonna be fun" with them that I don't feel from 5E. Instead, what I get is that it's the most minimum-effort attempt at recovering both the OSR and the 3.pf crowd that claimed to be alienated by 4E without really offering something new in exchange. Which is the point, I suppose.

>>51482385
in many ways you are right, it's a shame that 5e ended up so bland compared to 3e(as much as that edition is a mess, it definitely allowed for some really creative concepts)

>>51482450
yeah it does kinda feel like something WOTC did mostly to keep a grip on the D&D IP rather than actually making a great game, which is supported by how anemic 5e's official support has been(and them culling the fiction releases)

>>51482385
4e also got us what was probably the best Gamma World game in years.

>>51482385
4E was...different, to say the least. In many ways it was trying in earnest for D&D to reinvent itself rather than just milk off pre-existing settings (what with 3e's only new setting being Eberron). It tried to take all the elements which were there before but try to make a new spin on it, especially with the implied world design of the PoL setting, whose unfleshed out nature ultimately proved to be it's weakness in the eyes of many. Now did any of this work? I don't know, seems like even today 4e is divisive but personally I liked it for not being warmed over bare-bones Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms with a dash of Planescape, slavishly sticking to old D&D lore even when said lore was boring. Now again wether or not this work depend on the individual, personally I liked the PoL and it's cosmology, the World Axis which IMO was better or at least more evocative than the artificial and boring 'plane of alignement, plane of elements and plane of other crap' but I can easily see why someone would think the opposite and go 'You dumbass, D&D's cosmology is classic! How dare they change it!'

Mechanically it was both fun and slick and a fucking chore at the same time. Fun because IMO, the miniature and video game-esque combat and encounters, when done right, was actually pretty cool for what it was but the system had a lot of convoluted, arbitrary nonsense and these same strength could easily become a weakness under different circumstances.

Oh and it brought back Dark Sun, which was really cool.

>>51482869
>(what with 3e's only new setting being Eberron)
It's a sad fact that, without counting PoLand, Eberron is the last big D&D setting and it doesn't look like 5E is going to change that.

>>51483140
Eberron wasn't even WotC. They threw a world building contest, and it won.
>and it doesn't look like 5E is going to change that
The OotS guy was runner-up in the contest, and WotC has the right to the setting he made for it.
It was back when his writing was good, too! And they still care about his NDA for the contest, so...
There's uh, there's still some hope?

>>51483315
They could've released that for 4E, or reboot other properties like Birthright. (Which I fucking love, by the way, and somehow hasn't been revisited even though it was the second most supported 2E setting after FR itself) But during 4E it still seemed like WotC gave a fuck about D&D, while 5E is just like, there.

>>51483315
How does WotC own the OOTS world? And how is his writing worse now?

>>51483415
I think the 'business' aspect of WotC is what is hurting new D&D settings: supporting a full game line for a new setting is a pretty big deal and a significant investment. You'd think the whole '3 book per setting' we got with Dark Sun would have allowed more settings to be published for 4E but nope. Which is a shame because I do think 4E, for all it's flaws, could have supported some interesting new settings. Sure it had a rough start and they initially butchered FR and Eberron by adding races which weren't there just because they were now core races but by the time we got to the excellent Dark Sun reboot they had given up this 'policy' and the book flat out stated that many races (or even classes) did not exist in Dark Sun unless GM specifically approved them.

On the flip side, D&D 4E did technically give us a new Gamma World.

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Can someone suggest me some good podcasts to listen to while I'm at work? I'd prefer something with humor in it.

>>51483427
>How does WotC own the OOTS world?
They DON'T own OotS, etc. He wrote a different setting for a contest.
They own *that* because you had to sign away the rights to enter it.

>>51483557
Ah, I remember now, you're right.

>>51480885
Variety is the spice of life.

>>51483494
Last Podcast on the Left is pretty good starting about 10 episodes in.

>>51482101
Players have multiple tanks, its fantasy spanish civil war.

Is the claim of an "old school renaissance" really true? To me it seems grandiose. I like OSR systems and I've run more than one game from my B/X books that I got off of Amazon, but looking at Roll20 stats OSR games are a very small playerbase. Even accounting for retroclones in those numbers it just doesn't seem like old school games are hugely popular.

>>51484214
Also I'm the only person I know who converted from newer systems to old school ones, and that's mostly for the very practical reason that they're easier to run and prepare.

>>51484142

Cool! I hope your players know better than to trust any not-communists you have, because if they're anything like the historical Spanish communists then they're like, retarded or something. Even Stalin was embarrassed by their shit


>>51484214
Does it matter? We get new stuff printed for our old games, that's a win in my books.

>>51484214
It was true when the OSR movement started. It's been a while.

>>51484214
It's more like Old School Enlightenment nowadays.

>>51484214
I got into OSR two years ago, my friends just want play 5e though, so I can hardly play ACKS. I also dont use roll20, I hate not playing in person.

Most of the brainstorm already happened, back then there were new people creating content like crazy. Now most already established at something, and not a lot of DIY is posted online.

>>51484382
If I have to read about finger-zen one more god damn time...

>>51484436
>CASE 21. UMMON'S DRIED DUNG

>A monk asked Ummon,"What is Buddha?" Ummon answered him, "Dried dung."

>>51484214
There's a lot of pretentious smuggery associated with the OSR which ironically make them no different than the 'storygamers'

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>>51484523

>argument from tone

>>51484503
How apt.

>>51484631
>Mumon's Comments
>We must say that being so poor, Ummon cannot appreciate plain food, or he is so busy that he cannot even scribble properly. He is disposed to support his school with dry dung. Look at how devastated the Buddhist teaching has been!

>Lightning flashes,
>Sparks of striking flint.
>In a blink of your eyes,
>You have passed by (and missed it).

>>51484575
But he's right. The OSR and hipster storygamers should bond over their mutual masturbatory sense of self-centered importance and disdain for mainstream D&D plebs.

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>>51484655
You've got the passage wrong though.
It's not dry dung. Its a dry (unused) shit stick.

>>51477620
I think one of /tg/'s own game designers has a pretty decent approach in "Ruinations".

>>51477726
I think it's reasonable to assume that even in a sparkly high tech future, intelligent devices will make a lot of devices easy to use without special training, and there's no reason to assume the technical specialties will be recognizable to us (ie "radar technician" or "gunner").

>>51481484
>>51481643
FR only hangs on because the licensed fiction still makes money.

Alright, so since we're talking about settings some, how about this:
Vast wildland with one relatively strong city-state kingdom laying on the coast able to patrol out to 4 days from the city. Any further and you get away from it's "borders" and enter the wilds which are dotted very sparingly with small villages and the occasional town but mostly woods, swamps, mysterious blighted lands, hills, mountains and more.
Dwarves have a major keep far to the north but largely only maintain enough surface land under their control to grow a number of minor crops and to trade rarely with other in a small town.
Elves live in a deep and dark woodland surrounded by rough hills and some low mountains. They travel to trade and get news if needed but only the absolute most mighty of heroes can hope to get audience with the Elf King.
Halflings live on a lightly wooded island off the coast and are basically hobbits in the shire, subordinate to the human city-state kingdom.
Hints and teases of other civilizations "across the sea" but nothing concrete but obviously the kingdom city-state trades with someone other than the Elves, Dwarves and Halflings right? Right?
Very limited pantheon of distant and strange gods. Cosmology is basically the world with a "heaven" analogue, a "hell" analogue, an plane of ever-churning elements (elemental chaos from 4e basically) and the plane of "magic/etherealness" that contains pockets of "civilization" where fey and dark powers occasionally claim power before eventually collapsing on themselves (mash up of the Ethereal, Astral, Positive and Negative planes with hints of 4e's Feywild and Shadowfell).
However the power to traverse the plains is so rare it is basically unheard of save for legend, rare scholarly scrolls and the even rarer appearance of a being from said realm.

Sound good for a setting of adventure?

>>51485269
>Dwarves
Stopped reading here.

>>51485313
Good lord, OSR general really is the 'no fun allowed human fighting man only' circlejerk

>>51485351
Not me baby. Gimme pixies with plasma rifles and Elves that mutate.

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>>51485351
Eh, I know I'm in the minority here but I actually prefer having funky races in my games. Usually I just reskin the demihumans into stuff like pic related and call them by a different name.

>>51485351
we're just easy to bait

>>51485190
I also think that's reasonable to assume. I wasn't thinking of limiting tech use in terms of career/skills, more agreeing that the items will have become very easy to use, but their use/origin/manufacture etc, can be limited in other ways. If the society hasn't collapsed, the ease of use probably leads to an even greater emphasis on regulation by governing bodies. Which is p. boring and I'd probably have society be at least sort of collapsed, so more that the tech is rare, odd, irreplaceable, in need of repairs, requires black blood of the earth, stuff like that.

>>51485351
That's an exaggeration.

Human magic user is allowed too as long as their magic is dark, eldritch and with a high chance of turning horribly wrong and tentacley.

>>51484142
that sounds fun, what rules are you using for the tanks?

>>51484214
it's a matter of scale more than anything, when you get outside of the spheres covered by WOTC D&D, Pathfinder, various White Wolf RPGs, CoC, and a handful of various other games(mostly temporary darlings), pretty much everything looks small in comparison

also most people who play OSR use things besides Roll20 for various reasons(or play in person)

>>51484523
>bait.jpg

>>51485190
>FR only hangs on because the licensed fiction still makes money.
which means there's a good chance it could end up being dropped by the next edition since WOTC killed the D&D fiction department recently

>>51485269
sounds decent enough, if a bit generic in parts(but obviously this is just a quick synopsis)

>>51485351
guy is trying to bait you

>>51485457
>>51485460
agreed on liking lots of races, really dislike the trend that most published OSR settings have where they're either human only or have so little focus on the non-humans that they might as well be human only(not to mention most of them end up so low fantasy you might as well just run a historical campaign in BRP instead of wasting everyone's time by only using 5% of a D&D/OSR game's content)

>>51485547
>you might as well just run a historical campaign in BRP
BRP is not OSR. Therefore, it's a newschool storygame. Simple.

>>51485547
>sounds decent enough, if a bit generic in parts(but obviously this is just a quick synopsis)
I'll build on it real quick
>Human kingdom is actually a theocracy akin to the Papal States
>Dwarves enslave goblins and others to work the mines themselves while they work on the clearly more productive craft of smithing, jewelry crafting and more
>Elves are more akin to their folk lore roots, kidnapping babies and all
>Halflings bow to the human theocratic city-state but are organizing a massive uprising by slowly infiltrating key places and institutions to eventually burn that shit to the ground

>>51485607
those all sound good, although all of those also need to be handled carefully to avoid tripping into edgelord territory

>>51485351
It's less that "humanz iz da best" and more that you're pushing bland and derivative drivel.

>Vast wildland with one relatively strong city-state kingdom
So Greyhawk.

>Dwarves
So just like literally any other D&D setting

>the Elf King
The only hint of something interesting around the elves.

>Halflings
A half-hearted cosmetic tweak for hobbits.

>Hints and teases of other civilizations "across the sea"
Nothing really interesting.

>Very limited pantheon of distant and strange gods. Cosmology is basically the world with a "heaven" analogue, a "hell" analogue
Again, uninspired vanilla D&D dreck.

>from 4e basically
Nothing wrong with 4e but you've put in no effort here.

>However the power to traverse the plains is so rare
Then why even bother including them?

3.5's Greyhawk-lite is deeper and more interesting than your world. Where are the big changes? Where's your thumbprint in the setting? It's just a dime-a-dozen D&D setting with some 4e and different coats of paint.

If you're >>51485607 then that does make it more slightly interesting.

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>>51485638
Afraid of living on the edge anon?

That said, it's supposed to be a somewhat "generic" setting but I'm getting a lot of ideas from pdf related which shows that the idea of a "generic" setting is still very, very weird and pulpy more often than not.

>>51485674
>So Greyhawk.
Technically Blackmoor did it first
>So just like literally any other D&D setting
Dwarves are kind of a staple race, anon
>The only hint of something interesting around the elves
What if I had said the king was also a woman?
>A half-hearted cosmetic tweak for hobbits
Just like in OD&D and many/most early D&D games?
>Nothing really interesting.
I've found in my groups you add more to the setting the more the players try to take liberty with it
>Again, uninspired vanilla D&D dreck.
For a hobby spawned from D&D and the fact OSR is trying to get D&D back to it's roots in most instances you really dislike D&D don't you?
>Nothing wrong with 4e but you've put in no effort here.
Hey, it's easier to steal sometimes
>Then why even bother including them?
To explain certain monsters and plothooks that could spawn in the games set in the setting? Maybe a mad archwizard wants to collapse reality and merge it with one of the planes of existence or something? Maybe the demons finally organize?
>If you're >>51485607 then that does make it more slightly interesting.
Thank you!

>>51485351
Not!Heaven as the Neg. Energy Plane, also Asphodel Fields.
You can reach Heaven from Prime Material by climbing up the local "tall mountain."
You can reach Heaven from Hell by spelunking (or digging) deep enough, its a long drop. Bring rope.

Not!Hell as the Pos. Energy Plane, also Diyu.
You can reach Hell from the Prime Material by being buried alive with a corpse during a funeral.
You can reach Hell from Heaven by climbing up rope left by travellers.

Nix the Elemental Chaos.
Elementals are made things, and Djinn are native to the Prime Material.

Base the not!Ethereal on Plato's Theory of Forms.
The forms are beyond reach, but the "light" that propagates their image passes through the Ethereal.
You can walk to the Ethereal from anywhere on any plane (except whatever your "native" plane is), but you have to walk through EVERY plane in sequence to reach it.
The only way out of the Ethereal is external summoning magic, used fron your "native" plane.


Dwarves are "da joos," and live on the outskirts of just about every community.
Allegations of dark magic have been pretty consistently accurate.

Elves are native to the Ethereal, but puppeteer bodies for themselves on the Prime Material.
Their puppets are flesh and blood (and twigs and sap and...) but have jerky motion and wear out quickly.
They are obsessed with iron, but have no smiths.
Instead, they kidnap children and ceremonially ransom them for worked iron.

You nailed the hobbits.

The world is largely "uninhabited" because goblins, cursed relatives of hobbits, used to own most of it.
Their empire had been collapsing ever since they were cursed, but they degenerated into tribalism (w/ a few baronies) 30 years ago.
Efforts to clear them out have been largely unsuccessful.

>>51485547
>since WOTC killed the D&D fiction department recently
Ed Greenwood gets a certain number of books per year, it's part of his outrageous IP lease.

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What officially makes a game not "old-school" to you?

>>51485914
Beyond established writers (Greenwood, Salvatore, etc.) WotC is no longer hiring/retaining writers for novels or anything. That budget wasn't necessarily cut but they have allocated it elsewhere (from what I hear it's been allocated to hiring third party companies to help write their new adventures such as the Tiamat two-book adventure, the Princes of the Apocalypse, etc.).

WotC is now focusing on limited print runs of core rules, adventures, their online "unearthed arcana", getting podcasts and let's plays out there and the upcoming movie set for release in 2018.

>>51485769
>you really dislike D&D don't you?
Not necessarily, I just dislike when a perfectly good concept gets ruined by pointless adherence to genre conventions. A non-OSR example is this fantasy game where the big bads are the waters of creation, the primeval ocean that wants to drown all the land and restore balance to universe.

This is a concept that hooks you in. It's neat. It's interesting. It gets your noggin joggin'
>evil water elementals
>evil hydromancers
>aquatic encounter galore
>ally with lesser evils like batshit fire elementals

And what are the setting's core races
>Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling

Well, okay but surely the monsters are good
>Orcs, Gnolls, Ogres, Goblins, Trolls

What ends up delivered is something that it is 99% functionally identical to every bland 3.PF game when it could have been something interesting instead.

And when dwarves, elves, and halflings have been continuously part of D&D for 40 years they don't need to keep getting dredged up. Throw in thri-kreen or aaracokra instead, mix it up.

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>>51485945
>no monkey skulls

>>51485968
Have you actually played/ran enough games/campaigns to have exhausted the creative potential in humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs, gnolls, orgres, goblins and trolls? I'm not saying exclude thrikreen, they're neat. But maybe stop worrying about what /tg/ thinks is cliche and see what your players are interested in. Most of them spend less time overthinking this sort of shit and are happy to pretend to be an elf with a cool hat.

>>51485945
A focus on "builds" rather than just making a character and roleplaying shit for flavor is distinctly anti-old school to me.

Old School is more free wheeling to me and is so much easier to do weird and wonderful things with without having to restructure everything and make sure it doesn't upset "muh balance".

>>51486027

Right on. I like westerns, and people have been mining that genre for new stories for a hundred years and still come up with new and interesting twists on it, and they don't even HAVE dwarves, just regular old people.
You can get a lot of mileage out of even a really hoary old trope if you use it well. New tropes might be shinier, but new, all by itself, is a poor substitute for good.

I'm a really big fan of using music playlists in conjunction with my games. What are some good sources of "Appendix N" background music?

I'm mostly just using the Witcher 3 OST because I really dig the music and it's variety but eventually I'll just be using the same tracks constantly.

>>51485677
This document inspired me to try and look into the implications of the games without a setting. Every game has an implied setting by virtue of what it's mechanics are pushing and I find that sort of analysis interesting.

DCC has a wonderful implied setting without being super blatant about it with its items, spells, and GM advice. Even generic settings thrown together with the rules can be awesome with the right base to build on.

>>51486027
>Have you actually played/ran enough games/campaigns to have exhausted the creative potential in
No, and why should I? It's like saying no one should play anything but quasi-medieval European setting until the creative potential has been exhausted.

>stop worrying about what /tg/ thinks is cliche
But I don't care what /tg/ thinks.

> Most of them spend less time overthinking this sort of shit and are happy to pretend to be an elf with a cool hat.
The same can be said of 3.PF players.

In the end, vanilla settings are only useful for total newbies or rollplayers.

>>51486114
Westerns are also almost dead as a genre.

>>51486208
>complain about a thing I'm not doing and doesn't apply to me
>don't care what /tg/ thinks but want them to care what I think
>don't care about my own players

so... what's your point? You don't like thing?

>>51486208
>But I don't care what /tg/ thinks.
So then why try to persuade us?

>>51486208
3.PF is a hodge podge of edgy races and over the top bullshit with a lot of exotic flavors. It's hardly generic quasi-medieval setting.

The OSR community is generally fond of old tropes and traditions given new life through reexamination and reimplementation.

Beating dead horses till the fun comes out is kinda what this whole General is about.

>>51486249
I'm saying that "but you haven't exhausted all creative potential" is a load of bullshit. It's crutch for people to keep including rules for tradition's sake instead of evaluating thing critically.

>>51486284
>3.PF is a hodge podge of edgy races and over the top bullshit with a lot of exotic flavors.
The point was that "Most of them spend less time overthinking this sort of shit and are happy to pretend to be" is an excuse people use to keep playing 3.PF. It's a shitty attitude.

>Beating dead horses is kinda what this whole General is about.
FTFY

>>51486277
Because it quells the roaring emptiness inside.

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>>51486344
Neat. Sometimes people use tradition in that manner, although I tend towards examining tropes for their origins and seeing what can be done with them, then applying that to creating new things. Wasn't the point of my post though. I was trying to explain that your roaring emptyness is getting on people who haven't gotten so crusty as you, so calm down.

You ain't quelling shit, gimmie your finger.

>>51484436
>>51486437

god dammit!

>>51485351
>>51485499 hits the nail on the head. There are a few people here who are easily goaded into a skub-fight.

>>51486208
>Westerns are also almost dead as a genre.

People have been saying that off and on since the 70s, but it doesn't make it true. Some of the best Westerns of all time have appeared in the "Westerns are dead" era.

>>51486649
Westerns are only dead if you compare to the era of cinema where you has 30 westerns a year, back when there were only like, 4 genres.

I heard great things about " Dwellers in the Dark", a bestiary for OSRIC - Does anyone have a copy to share? Thanks.

>>51485677
>Afraid of living on the edge anon?
not necessarily, it's more that it's really easy to screw up and dive right into being full edgelord, and those kind of settings are rarely all that interesting

>>51485914
they killed even that actually from what I've heard

>>51485945
>What officially makes a game not "old-school" to you?
honestly I feel the only definition of OSR that both makes sense and mostly won't start fights is as such;

A game or supplement is OSR if it's one or both of the following;

1.) an edition of D&D(or AD&D) published by TSR Inc(certain other games published by TSR are also counted)

2.) is broadly compatible with any TSR edition and/or anything else calling itself OSR

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Would anyone be willing to share a DDL for the Creature Compendium?

>>51487131 2e isn't OSR.

>>51487131
>1.) an edition of D&D(or AD&D) published by TSR Inc(certain other games published by TSR are also counted)
>2.) is broadly compatible with any TSR edition and/or anything else calling itself OSR
I can get behind this.

>>51487859
glad to see someone with sense

>>51487742
eh trying to exclude 2E just feels like both pointless nitpicking and needlessly complicating things

also if it's included in the Trove(or was in the past in the case of the products from that one company that kept causing the trove to get taken down till we stopped including their stuff) in my opinion it's OSR end of discussion

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>>51487742
>2e isn't OSR.

>>51482291
>I'd say 4E was overall pretty great
I actually agree with that, I had fun with it and at the time, after 3E it was like a revelation. But still, they clearly did shit like strip the Wizard of all its fluff (and late in the process, too) which I think did damage the game, both in terms of how fun it was and how well received it became. And the thing is I get the impression that that was all done entirely to make the game MORE generic, so everyone could use it in their ongoing game. I think that probably wasn't the smart move.

>>51488389
>they clearly did shit like strip the Wizard of all its fluff (and late in the process, too) which I think did damage the game, both in terms of how fun it was and how well received it became.
I think this was mostly because of its presentation / layout, as efficient as it was

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How about you all stop replying to the one anon who comes in here and posts bait every so often? It's so obvious at this point.

Also post more old school art.

>>51484214
Old school is meant to be played at a table, anon.

>>51487917
Which company got the trove taken down?

>>51486830
I have it, it's a fantastic bestiary.

>>51485945
>>51487131
>1.) an edition of D&D(or AD&D) published by TSR Inc(certain other games published by TSR are also counted)
>2.) is broadly compatible with any TSR edition and/or anything else calling itself OSR
This is probably the best explanation. WEG's Star Wars is Old School, but it is *definitely* not OSR.

>>51491961
>WEG's Star Wars is Old School, but it is *definitely* not OSR.
Eh, it's *old*. It's hardly "old school" in the sense of built for old-school style gaming. On the contrary, it's built with heavily narrative Campbellian bushwah in mind.

>>51490868

New Big Dragon Games Unlimited, publishers of various d30 books and PX1 psionics. May the shame be ever upon their heads.

>>51493006
>PX1 psionics


It's actually a pretty good psionics system.

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Hey /osrg/, I wrote up a fairly system-neutral post-TPK module. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to ask guys, a while ago there was a mega with stuff like Vornheim, Stonehell, Anomalous Subsurface Environment and so on in it. It doesn't seem to be the treasure trove, is anyone else aware of it?

>>51493661
Pretty good. Afterlife dungeons are still pretty unique and I like a lot of the loot and powers on display here.

>>51493680
If you can't find Vornheim, ASE and Stonehell in the Trove you're not looking carefully enough.

>>51493758
Cheers. Had a look through and it turns out either I'm doing it wrong, or the search isn't great. Still, found a couple of them, time to go searching.

Thanks again.

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>>51493828
>the search isn't great

Nailed it in one!

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>>51493661
I appreciate the Holy Diver references.

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>>51494012
>Holy Diver references.

Wait, what?

Sold!

>>51493661
I'm diggin' it. The formatting is kind of a pain though.
There isn't really an "order" to visit the sites, so it'd be nice if you labelled by proximity if the write-up to the site on the map (rather than jumping around).
Might help to put the map in the middle (text above and below).


A few questions though:
(I could make answers on my own, but I'd like to know what you intended)
Himmon seems pretty central to the adventure.
Does his hand lead you to him?

Where are you supposed to get a Tiger?
Do you have to Wish for one? It's kind-of implied they're indigenous.

>they emerge at the opposite side but everything is reset as if it they had just woken up.
Does this restore spells as well?
>There are for a party of N there are N+1 mounds close by
>If a young child is burnt in the bowl then the Chain of Perdition emerges from the Lake of Fire.
Do your hirelings follow you to hell?
Can your recruit hirelings from the lost souls?
Or do you *have* to steal the child from Lovely to reach Moloch?

>>51494826

>Himmon seems pretty central to the adventure. Does his hand lead you to him?
It can, when I ran this for my players, they killed it and used it as a map. If the PC's get closer to Himmon, I would have it poke them and then start wildly pointing a finger in his general direction.

>Where are you supposed to get a Tiger? Do you have to Wish for one? It's kind-of implied they're indigenous.
I have no idea, I threw that in there as a reference to Holy Diver really. The PC's could just come back down into Topeth later on.

>Does this restore spells as well?
I would simply have them reroll the 50% chance of having spells.

>Do your hirelings follow you to hell?
They can follow you back down there, but it wasn't intended for them to go in with you. In my mind hirelings are essentially PC possessions.

>Can your recruit hirelings from the lost souls?
Yeah, I have no idea what the PC's would pay them with though.

>Or do you *have* to steal the child from Lovely to reach Moloch?
If a PC was a child they could simply kill themselves. If a PC could fly they could fly there. They could simply bargain with Lovely for a child.

>>51494949
>They could simply bargain with Lovely for a child.
Does the dead child work?

>The PC's could just come back down into Topeth later on.
Dying again? Or revisiting the dungeon and wandering in the dark?

>>51495169

>Does the dead child work?
Yup, or they could just ask for a living one. I just had them in a chest for creepiness's sake.

>Dying again? Or revisiting the dungeon and wandering in the dark?
If a sole PC died, I might let them revisit Topeth as a solo adventure with a few changes. It could be any deep enough dungeon really though. When I referee, if you go deep enough into anything you can come out in a more fantastic/magical realm. Forests, dungeons, oceans, caves, meditation, drinking, even a monster's corpse all serve as "portals".

>>51495264
>When I referee, if you go deep enough into anything you can come out in a more fantastic/magical realm.

>Why are you looking so shell shocked, Fred?
>I went too deep in my girlfriend and entered her magical realm

>>51496067
>I went too deep in my girlfriend and entered her magical realm
Well, cervical penetration fetish is a thing, so you're not wrong there.

>>51493661
You could probably shrink the map and make the font a bit bigger. Try using just one font type on the image. There's a lot of grammatical things I would change (is English your first language?), on this I recommend reading it out-loud it really helps find problem sentences. There are many lines, "make a charisma check...," I don't think many OSR systems ask for such things, so in content like this might be better to give the reader the odds of success (1 in 6, or whatever). I probably wouldn't call this a "module", it's more of an adventure or quest, but that's just semantic. I would bold monster names so the reader can find them faster. How are the players to navigate if the only light source is the lake? Is the lake as bright as daylight?

Aside from grammar the Introduction and Ashen fields seems fine. What is the Lost Soul currency used for?

In the Wishing Shack the mothers want things I personally find too nebulous or pain to manage (namely the inability to make altruistic acts) in return for wishes.

In the Nightmare Distillery you never elaborate what distilled dreams do/etc?

Simmons's Hole seems interesting, but poorly written, especially the NPC who is referred to as "Himmon" instead of "Simmons".

I'm having trouble understanding Lovely's Tower, is it a sunken tower? Is it a pit? Describing the soul in the bottle as "the maiden" (as opposed to "a maiden") seems to imply the reader is supposed to know who the maiden is. There's intriguing stuff here, but I don't see how it interacts with the player or with the area: Why is a maiden's soul in a bottle? How is she different from a "lost" soul? A lot of this sections makes me think it was reworked a few times with some copy/pastes and wasn't proof read.

Cont.

>>51493661
>>51496852
Well look at me writting all that up only to copy/paste the pre-Spell Check version. Anyway...

Brimir's Skeleton is cool. I don't love the checks as I've written before, and sentence structure needs work. I'm not sure what you mean by "1/2 benefit from lunch." And I'm curious if the louse stay with that player forever.

St. Paul Golgotha seems fine, however I would suggested editing the sentence to, "There will be a wandering monster check every 30 minutes until they find the Knight."

Alter of Two Candles seems fine outside of previously mentioned problems.

Chain of Perdition Chain really lost me, I'm not totally sure what's going on here. "..you must roll movement or else you fall off.." Is rolling movement something the system you play actually does?

Moloch Statue is one of the more boring places in this little adventure, which is a shame considering how difficult it is to get here. You dramatically over explained the check penalties. I would recommend characterizing the statue a bit, and making the cash into a significantly higher sum of money than 6d6 gold coins.

>>51487131
>he begins to perceive the Form of True AD&D™ rather than the shadow of OSR

>>51497007
wut

>>51496852
>I don't think many OSR systems ask for such things,
Most OSR are (at least loosely) based off D&D and D&D recommends 1d20 (or was it 3d6?) roll-under as "ability checks."
They're intended as a fallback resolution method of risky, attribute based activities; for when the referee can't (or can't be bothered to) come up with something more appropriate on the fly.

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Not that Anon, but

>>51496852
I agree with your on the map.

>What is the Lost Soul currency used for?
Buying nightmare hootch.
Paying off Bone-Devils (to avoid fights), or dropping them as you run (to discourage pursuit).
Buying children (>>51495264) from Lovely.
Buying gear from scavengers.
Recruiting scavengers as hirelings.
Etc.

Anything you could do with currency in a dungeon, really.

>you never elaborate what distilled dreams do/etc?
Exotic booze? Pyrrhic potions? Up to the referee.
It's treasure.

>especially the NPC who is referred to as "Himmon" instead of "Simmons"
Bad spellcheck. It's Himmon's Hole.

>I'm having trouble understanding Lovely's Tower,
This tripped me up at first, not sure what the author is going for.
I'd have a (winding) staircase, with the only door at the top.
Or maybe with some doors to terraces (that you could drop to).

>>51496884
>I'm not sure what you mean by "1/2 benefit from lunch."
It eats some of your food.
You deplete twice as many rations.
>And I'm curious if the louse stay with that player forever.
Until you surgery (or butcher) it out.

>and making the cash into a significantly higher sum of money than 6d6 gold coins
I missed the bit about "Darkness leads out," and was REALLY confused when Moloch wasn't guarding a door to the mortal world.
Depending on how reliant/trusting my players were of Himmon, I might Schrödinger's Setting Details the exit there.
Or maybe just put it there either way. They already died, having *any* chance at life is already generous.

>>51495264
So you have to burn a child to raise the chains, but
>The Chain itself is only raised if fire continues to burn upon the altar
does burning *anything* keep the chains up?

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>>51497207
It's a running joke about True AD&D™ (that is, tournament rules AD&D with EVERY pre-2000 supplement) being a Platonic Form.
The shadow is referring to the Allegory of the Cave, see: >>51480849, >>51481009

>>51497602
That picture makes me love and fear nature.

For those of you who don't know and want some nightmare fuel about that...

There is a parasite that eats the tongue of a fish and replaces it.

Several species of parasite do that.

Anybody know some good "Acid Fantasy" modules or resources?

I read Slumbering Ursine Dunes and looked at this thread

>>51491701

and desire more stuff to build a little world around.

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>>51497824
Narcosa

>>51497728
I used that parasite as an inspiration for a tribe of basically morlocks who had ritually removed their tongues and had to pass around sacred parasite tongues to speak. The players could use them as treasure that allowed them to speak to demons, or other languages they didn't know. Using it too much eventually replaced their tongue.

>>51497891
Narcosa? Care to elaborate, world map looks interesting.

>>51497891
>Narcosa
Since you brought it up, could I ask you (or any Anon who feels like it, of course) to give me a quick breakdown of what Narcosa actually IS? Is it some sort of weird mod to McKinney's Carcosa like it sounds like, or what?

>>51497824

Yoon Suin has some crazy opium dream type stuff going on.

>>51497824
There's an entire line of stuff called Psychedelic Fantasy on rpgnow.

>>51477208
Booze and whores with my dwarf, Tordek!

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>>51484782
Yeah, except one are casual entryists with no understanding of the games they're elaborating on, and the other is the polar opposite. And hipster story games are just an exaggeration of the internal tendencies of "mainstream D&D plebs," the new school style of play taken to its logical extreme, they're of the same piece. OSR is an attempt to return the old style and work on its foundations, antagonistic to the school of play that both 'mainstream plebs' and 'hipsters' are part of.

You're looking at a stodgy art professor attempting to retain classical ideals of beauty and an edgy professor attempting to tear them down in favor of post/modernist values, and saying they're basically the same just because both take somewhat radical positions that they defend firmly. Really makes you think. Would you be happier if they just pretended to be disinvested? Or genuinely didn't care at all, and just let market forces be the sole lead for RPGs?

>>51498712
>the OSR is equivalent to "classical ideals of beauty"

You pretentious OSR philosophers are the worst.

>>51498712
>except one are casual entryists with no understanding of the games they're elaborating on
This is actually a huge problem on /5eg/, it has made the threads unbearable, at least half of all people in those threads have never actually played at a table and all their experience comes from critical roll.

>>51498771
No, yours are!

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>he associated the side of an argument I dislike with the side of another argument I like
>how pretentious!

>>51498771
No, it's equivalent to an art professor attempting to return to classical ideals of beauty. It's a radical stance against the mainstream that's traditionalist/reactionary in nature, rather than progressive. You whiners are too intellectually insecure for good reason, one assumes

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>>51498712
>>51498833
>>51498923
Stop taking the bait.

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Ever steal ideas from video games for your games/settings/characters? If so, how did it work out?

>>51499139
I made a wizard for Darker Dungeons who I played as Link from the Zelda series right down to wearing green. Only thing was I wanted him to be an elf but the guy who made the game specifically called out the Elf/Mage classes and said he hated that elves were always fighter-mages so he made them just mages and made human mages the fighter-mages. Still, it was a blast for the 5 levels I played before I died and rolled a Dwarf.

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>>51499139
I lifted the concept of shushus from Wakfu for my games I also love how they justified race-as-class as well..

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Regarding the classic reaction table...
How should "hostile" be interpreted? Is the NPC supposed to just outright attack the PCs or will they just tell them to "leave if you know what's good for you" or similar? Or is it both, and it depends on the creature and character of the NPC?

>>51500660

I always figured it was up to DM interpretation. If they think they can take the party, maybe they attack and try to get their stuff. If it looks like an even fight, maybe they try to intimidate the party into backing off or something. If the party outnumbers them, maybe they try to talk and warn the party that they got friends, so don't get any smart ideas.
"Hostile" just means they're actively unfriendly, IMO.

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>>51484782
That sounds great to me.

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>>51500660

I just use Good, Neutral, Bad. It's based on the creature instead of being 'You meet elves in the forest and you rolled a 1, so now they shoot you with arrows lol'

Good/Lawful creatures want to help you on a Good result, are polite and might be open to trading on a neutral, and think you are up to something if bad result or might just ignore you.

Really nasty or evil creatures will be very polite about giving you time to draw your sword and heal your wounded first before trying to kill you on a good result, with regular combat on Neutral and asshole piss-in-their-waterskins stuff if you get Bad.

Obviously I just play it by ear.

>>51500660
Depends on how classic you go. In OD&D "attempts to attack" and "hostile reaction" are two different entries on the table.

In other games, like >>51500728 I'd referee it based on the specifics, and his basic outline's good. (Some variations might include one guy hauling ass to sound an alarm or fetch reinforcements while the others hold the party at bay, slamming the door in their faces and locking it, raising their demands if they started by asking for tribute or a toll...)

Is Over The Wall good? I heard it's got a coming of age Zelda/Hobbit feel in a cooperatively built setting which sounds super awesome to me but how's it play?

>>51501134
Beyond The Wall is the name. I'm retarded.

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Is Ryuutama part of Old School Revival?

>>51501134
Yes, it's fantastic. Great rule set, coll character creation, the collaborative world building is a lot of fun. All in all, just a really solid game.

>>51501162
No, thank fuck.

>>51501162
No, it's just great. It's pretty much the antithesis of everything the OSR stands for, but it's excellent at filling its own niche and knows what it's about, unlike 98% of all RPGs ever published. Also the art is comfy.

>>51501162
I thought about asking this, but then I thought no one here would know this game

Anyway, I think it's "OSR adjacent" just like torchbearer and DW. It has great focus on resource management.

>>51501303
>It's pretty much the antithesis of everything the OSR stands for
Like...>>51501276

>>51497950
>>51497970
Its a bunch of encounters, tables, ideas and stuff written for a highly drug inspired osr land. Lots of different ideas and authors, some of them good. Its neat to pillage for ideas, or if you want to have a silly short campaign.

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>>51501334
>>51501303
Ah, so I take it that Old School Revival means hack-and-slash?

>>51501372
OSR is basically just Old-school D&D.

>>51501334
>>51501372
Fuck, I touched >>51501276 while reply was uploading

I agree with you, OSR isn't H&S, I dont think its OSR, 'cause its not compatible with TSR stuff. But it is indeed OSR related

>>51501134
Beyond The Wall and Further Afield are dank. Worth reading and stealing ideas from for how to create characters, world building, magic, threats. It commits serious heresy in taking ideas from those eeeevvvilllll hipster story games

>>51500660
I tend to base what hostile means off how strong the encountered things are compared to the party, how obvious this is, and whatever cultural traits they have. If the hobgoblins are fewer in number but hostile, they'll probably fall back, organize a hit&run and try to capture someone to ransom or eat.

>>51501372
see >>51487131 for the closest thing we have for a definition of what OSR is and means, and what qualifies as it

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>>51501154
It's alright, Anon. Over the Garden Wall was really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlIJBWBIGS4

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>>51497670
And this

>>51501451
>It commits serious heresy in taking ideas from those eeeevvvilllll hipster story games
OSR inevitably leads to story games

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>>51501696
we need someone to make an Americana OSR setting/game(Weird Adventures has aspects of this, but is a bit too focused on it's NYC expy to properly fulfill it)

>>51501372
Dungeon delving and hex crawling, but fights are brief and always dangerous.
Combat is usually your last resort. When possible, you sneak/bribe past fights.

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>>51487131
>A game or supplement is OSR if interchangeable with OSR and TSR D&D.

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>>51501892
>Fighting Man, Hobo, Witch and Preacher classes
>hex crawls with train tracks that can be hitched on with different random encounter tables
>pinkertons with windupkeys in their backs
>mutant hillbillies
>civil war wights
>dungeons are just places you're breaking into, mansions, banks, stills, graveyards
>You Just Can't Win is required reading

I'd play it.

>>51502068
>You Can't Win

My bad. I'd still play it.

>>51501892
Isn't The Chained Coffin that?

>>51502068
That sounds awesome. I'd play the hell out of that.

>>51502033
felt it was necessary to be as clear as possible as the expense of brevity, but you aren't wrong

>>51502068
exactly, although I think I'd go with Americanized versions of the full spread of AD&D classes, and definitely throw in a hefty amount of Tall Tales and other American folklore(and at the same time alter various D&D standbys to fit more into the early Americana zeitgeist)

>>51502240
never read it

>>51502338
agreed

I'm working on my own homebrew, a take on old German folklore; Der Freischütz, Grimm's Fairy Tales, Der Erlkönig, something like Innistrad, for you Magic: the Gathering players (though with less angels and demons). 17th/18th century Germany is what I'm going for, with magic being around but not EVERYWHERE like D&D.

Anyway, part of the concept was to draw a little inspiration for character classes from card suits. Not so much the French suits, but the old Swiss-German ones (Roses, Bells, Acorns and Shields) and the Tarot suits (Coins, Cups, Wands, Swords). I'd like a little feedback as for ways to flesh the concepts I have out into something actually playable.

>Acorns: Similar to a druid, in that they revere nature and seek to preserve the balance between nature and man's world. Minor magics to deal with weather, survival, and agriculture
>Bells: Not entirely sure. Might base it off of the more metaphysical connotations, where bells are used to ward away demons, as a basis for a witch hunter-style class. Maybe also clergy/clerics of setting?
>Coins: Definitely a thief-y class, where stealth, sleight of hand, and tinkering are expected.
>Cups: Torn between an alchemist and apothecary, might just have aspects of both. Thinking about using a system similar to that of the Ultima games w.r.t. spell reagents, as well as Darkwing Duck-style gas gun??
>Roses: Something bard-like, maybe more of the agile fighter archetypes as well?
>Shields: Definitely frontline, more along the line of the defender role from 4e D&D where they serve to protect the party. Maybe minor magic to be able to take damage in place of other party members?
>Swords: Obviously the typical frontline fighter, but not mostly useless outside of combat like 3e+ D&D fighters tend to be.
>Wands: the wizards of the setting. Might have a Faustian bargain aspect, give them a warlock bent.

>>51502818
You don't need 8, unless you've a "two choices of 4" thing going.
Also, Coins would make good mercenary types (or many soldiers with lots of followers/hirelings).
And then have Bells as the thieves.

>>51502950
I was considering something like that, where one group of four was more of the positive aspects of the suits, and the other set was more of the negative aspects. Translating it into more game terms, one could be more offensive, focusing more of debilitating the opponents, while the other would be more on the defensive side of things, healing, buffing party members and the like.

I'm still not sure if I want to go with that particular train of thought, but I'm not entirely sure I want to rule it out, either. I do like having a decent selection of classes to choose from, though, in part because there were always a good number from B/X on up through the editions, and in part because these would be the entirety of the class pool to choose from, no demi-humans or other race-as-class to worry about.

>>51503040
Maybe one set is an archetype and the other is a drawback?

>>51493828
there's a way to search the trove?

>>51503227
Yes, by hand.

>>51503227

Mega has a search feature, but it's terrible at actually finding anything. I found this out when managing the Traveller archives and it told me the file I had accidentally uploaded to the wrong folder simply wasn't there at all, and then I dug around and spotted it manually and finally put it right.

>>51477620
Not really an issue since most OSR characters don't really have much in the way of class abilities in the first place. You could also place restrictions on their use to certain classes - perhaps specialized training is needed to use these devices effectively.

>This Thread Goes Bump In The Night
What bogeyman do you use when trying to be spooopy?

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>>51504378
this person has some interesting ideas involving fear based monstrosities;

https://thesumlax.tumblr.com/post/156394762050/here-i-talked-a-little-about-a-different-approach


which in turn ties into some concepts that a friend of mine has gone into on his site, that I've contemplated weaving together for my own usage(which I might go into later as it is getting pretty late where I'm at);

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hall15-mascots.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hall12-zombies.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hall12-skilevaks.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hall12-dullahan.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hall12-apocalypses.html

http://bogleech.com/nauseamaggots.html

http://bogleech.com/dragons.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hallbest-hocus.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hallbest-pocus.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hallbest-strixoid.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hallbest-heebiejeebies.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hallbest-caterwaul.html

http://www.bogleech.com/halloween/hallbest-moonman.html

>>51504819
man that did not look like such a wall when I was typing it up

>

>>51504378
I think that monsters that fuck with PCs in unsuspecting ways work well as spoops. Rust monsters are a good example.

>>51482214
Wait, the logistics of that make no sense. How do magic-users ever learn their trade when they're not allowed to occupy the same village as their teachers? Do they camp outside the village until they graduate and go looking for a village without a magic-user??

>>51506298
You seem to be forgetting that it's Forgotten Realms, so like 1-in-100 people just grow up to be Magic-User.

>>51501892
>>51502068
Why is this not a thing yet?

>>51507995
You can make it a thing, yet

>>51508662
Nah, someone MURRICAN must write it. I can't, I'm a fucking leaf.

>>51508704
Time to write a completely misinterpreted America written by a Slav.
It's gonna be great.

>>51508704
I'd sooner use it penned by a leaf than a burger.
t. Burger

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>>51509405
You're no burger, faggot

>>51502068
Heavy inspo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23iT28bZx2g&

Official soundtrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACD9NP4D_pU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8viuo9B0Io
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDbSixeKIdE

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>>51510875
Blind Joe never sang. He had no voice. He had been struck blind and dumb at the age of three by a local member of the NAACP, for not complying with the organization's demand to learn bar chords and diminished augmented sevenths, so that he might disassociate himself from the myth of the Negro past. Here, thanks to the intensely personal stubborness of an old man who refused to bow to the dictates of crass commercialism and political interfuge, sat John Fahey at the feet of this old man, listening and waiting for his hands to be big enough to play the surrogate kithera as did his mentor. For in Blind Joe's music, the young white boy could discern a way in which he could express the intensely personal, bitter-sweet, biting, soul-stirring volk poetry of the harsh, elemental, but above all human life of the downtrodden Takoma Park people (volk).

Hey, /osrg/. Would you play a video game based on B/X rules that's kind of halfway between a management sim and a choose-your-own adventure?

You'd basically manage resources and party members/hirelings (and their morale) and make decisions on things like when to turn back, how to deal with hostile creatures, and so on.

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>>51511074
If it's more like Seven Cities of Gold and less like Expeditions: Conquistador, maybe.

>>51511074

I'd play that.

>>51511178

Oh yeah, I'd play that. I had a great time with Seven Cities when I was a kid.

Anyone have a copy of Codename: Spandex? It's not in the Trove, and I just accidentally deleted my copy.

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>>51501892
>Weird Adventures
Have a pdf?

>>51511615
Google how to recover it, if you *just* deleted it (haven't been writing to the HDD) you probably still can.

>>51481009
>laughing artistotle

The essence of True AD&D would have to be found within the AD&D itself.

>>51511895

>implying fat32

No good, friend. Once I've deleted something on this old ext3 filesystem it's as good as gone. I mean, it's possible if I'd just shut the whole thing down as soon as I'd done it and gone in with some forensic tools, but that ship sailed before I noticed it in all the filing I'm doing, and even if I could, it's a lot of work for something I downloaded off the net anyway.
I figured it'd be in the Trove, though, since I posted it to be added many moons ago. But I guess Trove Guy's not been around much.

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>>51511876
sure here you go

>>51511615
>>51511895
>>51511953

Nevermind, found a copy on IRC.

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>>51511615
here's a copy

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>>51512062
and one of their other settings while I'm at it

What you guys think of classes and races built on:
- combat thingy;
- out of combat (square) thingy;
- out of combat (hex) thingy;

The idea is that everyone should have something interesting to do instead of the classic spotlight approach.

So the PC can have outdoorsman and use it to forage food, or blacksmith to repair damaged items while in the hex turn. All still in brainstorming phase.

Good, bad or not-OSR?

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>>51512062
Cheers, wanted to take a look at their monsters in regards to the americana game brainstormed earlier

>>51502068
Could use hobo sign as runes for spells. Like they carve them into old oaks and smear blood or pour whisky on the mark, utter some hobo gibberish and it casts like a ritual. Probably something like WPatWS's magic, setting up spells along the railways.

>>51512127
>The idea is that everyone should have something interesting to do
People already have interesting (read: clever) things to do.
Your options are 95%+ inventory based (maybe ~80% for mid-high level MU-types).
>outdoorsman and use it to forage food,
>blacksmith to repair damaged items while in the hex turn
These aren't interesting. They're useful, but tedious.
And why you resort to tomb robbing if you have marketable skills?

>>51512426
>And why you resort to tomb robbing if you have marketable skills?
For the same reason PCs continue being played after their first successful looting already puts them within the 1%.

What are the percentile odds of rolling the same number on 2d12?

>>51512426
The options are still only conceptual. Sure, they're not cool, but are useful. If when hexcrawling a PC can choose between foraging and thus reduce the consumption of ration, or scouting to reduce ambushes, the player have options.
If the PC must choose in downtime to either repair damaged equipment or use cooking to add healing to ration used, the non-combat part of the game isn't anymore a fade-to-black until the next encounter.

That's why I asked if my homebrew could even fit or drink from OSR.

>>51513245
You mean getting doubles? 1 in 12. Think of it this way: if you roll the dice one at a time, does it really matter what you roll on the first die? I mean it's not like you're gonna say "Shit! I rolled a 7. Now my chances of getting a double are lower." That's clearly nonsense. So whatever you roll on the first die, you just have to match it with what you roll on the second die. And your chance to get any particular number on a d12 is 1 in 12. There are 12 different possible results, and that's one of them. Percentage-wise, 1 divided by 12 equals .0833, or 8.33%.

>>51513425

Yeah, it's 12 doubles results out of 144 possible outcomes, but that's equal to 1/12.

>>51513370
It adds more resource management, so there are some people who would be into it.

I basically do this when players are hex crawling, I ask how fast they're going, what their balance is between exploration, care and speed then adjust random encounter chances a bit based on that. I haven't sat down and made tables for it, I tend to just add an extra hex or so of movement and increase 1-6 to 2-6 or so.

Specifically scouting could slow them down, but gives them a heads up on encounters, or an option to attempt evading. Likewise foraging could reduce the amount of rations consumed but increase encounter chances. The more I type the more I bet someone already made a chart for this.

>>51513370
You've still described common skillets. Sufficiently wealth (post 2-3 adventures) PCs will hire people with those skills.
I guess it makes the choice of who to feed to the wolves (or who to have trip the trap, etc.) more interesting, but it doesn't feel worth the bookkeeping.

>>51513518
>>51513546
Haven't thought of bookkeeping. It shouldn't be boring having choices. Hirelings can easily be toned down by only having basic skills (and only 1 skill per hireling) while PC can truly improve on them(and have more), and limiting the amount of people by things like charisma and the danger of the quest instead of just gold.

Thank you for your opinions.

>>51513910
>Hirelings can easily be toned down by...
You can get away with weird setting shit, but
weird mechanical shit unsuspends disbelief.

>only having basic skills
That feels really gameist. Ant NPC can become a hireling.
What if the PCs coerce a master smith into their service?

Does anyone know of any OSR styled games that are more focussed on a modern/future style? I'm thinking something for operational operators operating, but I like the OSR rulings over rules philosophy. I realise this is a little off topic for this general but I thought I'd ask.

>>51515489

I dunno, decent gunplay is kind of a weakspot for OSR. Gun rules for OSR are good if they function without being ludicrous, and are usually early firearms rather than modern; actually having modern guns that are tactically interesting is not something that fits well into OSR's highly abstracted combat, IMO.
I'd use Classic Traveller with Snapshot.

>>51515550
What is snapshot? An optional rule for traveller or a whole system?

>>51515489
Stars Without Numbers for future/sci-fi.
Don't know a modern offhand, but some exist.

There's some discussion up thread about homebrewing a 19th century hobos system.
That might pan out in a few weeks?

>>51515569

It's rules system that can be played by itself, but can also be used as a drop-in which expands the CT combat system to use a grid, and makes it more tactical and wargamey.

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>>51515489
There's Advanced Mysteries and Lost Treasures, same author as Sabres and Witchery.

>>51515550
Another stupid question for you, is traveller/snapshot in the trove? I'm not seeing it. Any chance you have a download link?

>>51515691
I assure you it's in the trove. Additionally, you can hop over to the Traveller thread and find it there.

>>51515691

Nah, Traveller's not OSR compatible. You'd have to go over to the Traveller thread and check their Master Archive.

>>51515700
Thanks.

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>>51481819
Tractics used some similar mechanics, including use of the D20. Gygax actually supplied crossover stats ages ago.

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>>51515744

>>51515755
I forgot where page 3 was, (which has the stats). It's in TSR's Strategic Review magazine, which they did before starting Dragon Magazine.

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>>51515744
Additionally.

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>>51515796

I remember seeing an image posted here about revised demihumans for Swords & Wizardry: Whitebox. Does anyone still happen to have it?

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>>51516168
The only thing I know of is this, but it's not specifically for S&W WB, so it's probably not what you're talking about. Posting just in case.

>>51515744
>>51515755
>>51515796
>>51515804
You are doing god's work.

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>>51502068
Fighting Man = Able-bodied Man
Magic-User = Hobo
Cleric = Preacher
Dwarf = Negro
Elf = Carpetbagger? Chinaman?

>>51517513
I was going
Fighting Man = Fighting Man
Hobo = Specialist
Witch/Snake Oil Salesman = Magic User
Preacher = Cleric
Mountain Man = Dwarf
G-Men = Elf?

Not sure about what to call G-Men before the 20s, but that's what I'd go for. Not quite fighters, not quite magic, uses both and has bonuses for reasons. In universe hinting at Uncle Sam knowing more about the weird darkness in the woods than it lets on, having proto-X files sort of investigators.

>America is not a young land: it is old and dirty and evil.
>Before the settlers, before the Indians.
>The evil was there... waiting.

>>51517675
>Snake Oil Salesman = Magic User
YES!

There's gotta be a more thematic name than Fighting Man though.

>>51517753
Scrapper
Pugilist
Brawler
Trooper
Bruiser
Leg-Breaker
Tough

>>51517753

Pugilist
Thug
Brawler
Ex-Con
Runaway
Biker
Greaser
Gangsta
Backdoor Man
Trouble

>>51517753

Could just be 'Vet', which would explain where they got their fighting skills from

>>51517753
Bruiser? Scrapper? Brawler? Slugger? Tough? Heavy? Bully?

Gunslinger? Pistoleer? Triggerman? Marksman? Sharpshooter? Rifleman? Gunner?

Frontiersman? Pioneer? Ridge runner? Backwoodsman?

>>51517753
Fightin' Man

>>51517753
Enforcer, Bad News, Veteran.

Do you prefer a powerful spell list like in Labyrinth Lord, or something more scaled back and truncated like BFRPG?

>>51517956
Scaled back though if they do get really powerful make them dangerous to use as well ala DCC.

>>51517753
Day Laborer

>>51517906
10/10

>>51517753
Foitan Mang

>>51517753
John Carter always called himself a fighting man, which is where they got the name anyways. So its perfectly in theme as he was post civil war.

>>51512089

Huh, looking over this now I'm not sure it's OSR after all. I mean, it bills itself as a "supers retro-clone" but it doesn't look like it's cloning very much of D&D.

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>>51517753
Actually, the term "fighting man" was a very apt one for most of the modern world for a couple centuries. It only really died out by WW2.

>>51517093
Just doin' mah duty sah. Though I'm kinda miffed I can't find the page that actually had the stats on it. It even had some swanky hand-to-hand combat rules, also how to model handgrenades and heavy mortars ingame.

>>51518512
it's based more on the TSR Marvel RPG, so it's a Retroclone, just one that likely isn't proper OSR(although I like stretching the OSR banner to cover most of TSR's non-D&D RPG's as well)

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True AD&D™

>>51517675
Snake Oil Salesman seems a bit off for magic users. I'd personally rather use mystic or magician.

>>51521060
The Snake-Oiled
"You have been visited by a Faustian spirit of the worst kind, and made a pact with him, through a simple Snake-Oil purchase.
Turns out the Snake-Oil had all the properties you were promised, and many more."

>>51518700
Let me help you finish your duty soldier, strv105 is the one we want.

https://annarchive.net/dragon.html

I suggest all of you check this out, there are a ton of old Dragons and a couple of the Strategic Reviews in here.

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I'm working on a new megadungeon campaign and I need some worlds and locations that PCs can hail from.

Basically the whole game is set in the dungeon and just some areas on the immediate exits of the dungeons, and the PCs who explore come from different planes, timelines and dimensions.

So if you have a home campaign that you're proud about or just a neat idea, I would love to see it posted here. Nothing is too weird, nothing is too mundane.

>>51524097
If you don't plan on visiting the planes, let your players come up with there own.
As long as they don't try asking for advantages, they should get as outlandish with it as possible.

>>51517675
Snake Oil Salesman ⇒ Specialist
Hobo ⇒ Magic-User*

*but give them a /subtle/ spell list
mostly illusions, abjuration, and divination

>>51517675
Preacher sounds more like a Bard than a Van Helsing.
Fold 'healer' and 'thief' into one class (Snake Oil), and make the Magic-Userva different archetype (Hobo?)

Each day the referee secretly rolls [level]d6 for each Snake Oil Salesman, and they get that (unknown) number healing pips.
The excess ([level*6] - healing) are (also unknown) pips of trickery for the day.
Spend healing on healing, trickery on thief stuff.
Once you run out of points, people stop taking you seriously.

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>>51517675
I don't think you can have an americana setting while omitting the other races. The mountain man archetype is a lot less distinct and inseparable from the period's image than the black man, more appropriate for the basis of a monster. Native Americans and Chinese less so unless it's set in the Southwest.

I can see it being called racist to take race-as-class literally but wouldn't it be moreso to just leave them out?

>>51525494

You could maybe come at it sidelong, make him "the outsider" or somesuch. Covers black folks, native raised among white folks, european migrant, anybody who sees things in a different way.

>>51525494
I plan on doing a colonial style setting with race-and-class, slavery, and both fantastical and mundane racism.

>>51525571
>outsider
Reminds me of Outsiders only dying on their home plane.
Hmm... when you kill an outsider, one of their relatives comes for revenge. You never bothered learning their name, and they all look the same to you, so players assume they came back from the dead.

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>>51525571
Well, that's the point of race-as-class, the other races are limited and alien. An encompassing Outsider class would work for Dutch, Irish, Germans, etc. (or perhaps the Amish, Quakers and Puritans) but I just can't see how you can take blacks out of early America altogether and have it still be recognizably the same. I mean, just try to imagine American folk without negro roots. They're not all-important, but at about the perfect equivalent to what elves/dwarves are to men in D&D.

>>51524201
I'm planning on doing that too, but if their PCs die too often I could imagine them running out of ideas. I can also use these worlds for ideas on opposing factions.

>>51525323
>[level*6] - healing
You always roll at least a 1.
So that's 1-6 healing, but only 0-5 theft per level.
Do 7 times your level instead, make them both 1-6.

Also, medicine and mischief sounds better.

>>51526052
When they run out of ifeas, they start resusing them.

>>51525494
>>51525813
yeah this is blatantly racist bait

>>51526978
It's blatantly racist, but it doesn't seem like bait to me.
>but I just can't see how you can take blacks out of early America altogether and have it still be recognizably the same.
>They're not all-important, but at about the perfect equivalent to what elves/dwarves are to men in D&D.
Anon is making a fair case for a fair point.

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>>51527093
Are you trying to tell me that black people have infravision?

>>51527155
I meant it in the sense of population size in & cultural influence on the human world in the Greyhawk setting. Obviously they'd be mechanically altered.

>>51517906
This

>>51526978
>>51527093

The setting they are portraying is pretty damn racist. It'd probably be disingenuous not to have elements of it in their Americana Fantasy thing.

>>51525494
>I can see it being called racist to take race-as-class literally
Yeah, inevitably, of course it will. But I wouldn't worry about that so much, especially if you make and release it just as Anon. The real issue is, is it actually racist? And I don't think it is, it's just portraying that mythical-Americana past as it already exists in the public imagination. I mean, if you named the class Nigger and gave it shit abilities on purpose, that would be a problem, but beyond that, nah.

>>51523295
>https://annarchive.net/dragon.html
Excellent, anon, thank you! I've since lost my pdfs of the Strategic Review, so those screenies I made at some point were all there was for me for a while. Now if only someone had scans of the Strategic Preview, though that was understandably rare, and only given to TSR employees.

>>51528106
>if you named the class Nigger and gave it shit abilities on purpose, that would be a problem
Expanding upon this:

Giving RP advice in the margins about eating watermelons is borderline OK.
But giving the archetype a mechanical ability tied to watermelons is right out.

>>51525494
>>51528106
Well, it IS racist. The question should instead should be whether it's hateful racism, neutral racism, or loving racism.

Hateful being what /pol/ pushes (kill all the sub-human non-whites) and loving being what tumblr pushes (you poor non-white people are always good and right, sorry for oppressing you). Neutral racism means some people will treat you like shit but it's not because you're pure evil or they're pure evil.

>>51528414
Agreed.

>>51528656
>Neutral racism means some people will treat you like shit but it's not because you're pure evil or they're pure evil.
I disagree that that's the *game* being racist, that's just the game *featuring racism*, which isn't the same thing.

>>51528656
>neutral racism,
We call that "stereotyping," and its barely neutral.
Really useful though.

>or loving racism.
The fuck are you on?

>>51530725
>The fuck are you on?
He's obviously talking about positive racial discrimination by another name.

been away like 2 months, anything new in the osr world?

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>>51528656
>/pol/ pushes (kill all the sub-human non-whites)
Feds are the only ones pushing that. I think "neutral" racism would be believing in fundamental differences between the races and identifying with your own people but not harboring hatred for others.

In any case, the racism here would be mostly in assuming the perspective of whites as the default from which other races are alternative to, opposed to D&D's anthropocentrism with other species being the alternate, aka "othering"

>>51531095
>In any case, the racism here would be mostly in assuming the perspective of whites as the default from which other races are alternative to, opposed to D&D's anthropocentrism with other species being the alternate, aka "othering"
That can hardly qualify as racist, though. If it did, Vampire: the Masquerade would be racist against normal humans. It's just what the game's about.

>>51530580
If the game is giving Asians +2 Int and -2 Str then the game really is racist.

>>51531095
>Feds are the only ones pushing that.
lol

>>51525813
Negroes advance as Working-men, but may never progress beyond the 6th level (Junior Foreman).

>>51531156
Well the trouble is you're moving from fantasy "species" to human races of the same species. Even if it's just fluff, like Carcosa's colored people, it's still a different situation.

Though I agree with this >>51528106
It's anon, it doesn't matter. Honestly even the class was named Nigger with mechanical penalties, the real problem would be that it'd make for a shitty game with ideological motivations put in favor of mechanical consistency/inelegance (and who the fuck would play?), not because it's racist, imo. And the same goes both ways, we shouldn't avoid it because it might be racist, we should consider it on its mechanical and setting merits alone.

>>51525813

Call it "Free Man." Acknowledges slavery, sounds heroic, gives the class a flavor a la Fightin' Man.

But you're right, if you're going to do an Americana setting, black folks are going to be important. Also black folklore is deep and rich, but rather arcane in that there aren't a whole lot of experts around.

someone needs to make a new thread soon, hopefully this dumbass racist derail doesn't migrate to it

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>>51531467
Don't worry. It will.

>>51531200
>If the game is giving Asians +2 Int and -2 Str then the game really is racist.
Well yeah, but I was referring to just the fact of having whites be the default and other races having a dedicated class each. (I'm the same anon who said "if you named the class Nigger and gave it shit abilities on purpose, that would be a problem", so I agree with your point as such, I was just addressing something else)

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>>51531200
What if they were an alien race of yellow men from the planet of Sino? Then it would just be a cancerous involvement in adjusting ability score.

>>51531467
>dumbass racist derail
Honestly you seem to be the least thoughtful and intelligent person weighing in on it, I'm not seeing any HURRR /POL/ KANGZ GOOD GOY shit here, so either it's being jannied before I can catch it, or it isn't being said in the first place.