Space ship thread. Post about space ships. Discuss space ships.

>>51570542
Is this from Homeworld? Cause it sure looks like it.

>>51572250
Derp, of course they are, they have Hiigaran symbols on them.

>>51572250
It is, although it took me a while to get it as they were spaceships other than salvage corvettes there.

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Gotta help!

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>>51570542
The Kushan starfighter design is so much more appealing than the Hiigaran design.

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Battlefleet Art-deco reporting, waiting for Battlefleet Gothic

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Battlefleet Surrealism represent!

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>>51572333
We are here!

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What is best in life?

Also space thread, gimme dat music, gimme dem fine ass space scenes. all of it.

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Nothing will ever beat Stiletto as my favorite.

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I loved everything about this ship, the scenes where it fucks up the aliens craft is top tier.

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>>51572599

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>>51572443
I don't know why but I love the armour design the most.

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>>51570542

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>>51573107

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>>51573125

>>51572350
What's surreal about a GSV?

>>51572560

Mah. Niggah.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJzPhRJRgFA

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>>51573455

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>>51572319
Homeworld has the most beautiful mix of sensible utilitarian + spaceboat design. I'm pretty sure this isn't homeworld concept art, but it's that same style.

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>>51576660

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>>51576672

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>>51576730

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>>51576806

>>51570550
>space battleships
These trigger my autism almost as hard as the boner they give me.

>>51572308
s-sauce?

>>51572443
>Armour Design
Enjoy having the weakest titan, loyalfag
Also, in the same vein of that particular /v/, is >>51576730 a homeworld-ified Kol battleship? It looks like ass.

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>>51577377

The comic is about the first Homeworld

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>>51579489

Was meant for >>51579367

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>>51576660

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>>51579367
I don't remember for sure, but I don't think so. I believe it's art from one of the concept artists for homeworld, just not necessarily made for homeworld.

>>51572350
The Culture is space postmodernism.

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>>51579367
It's just concept art from when they were trying to hammer out the basic design of the Vaygr frigates.

Here's some more concept art of the generic Vaygr frigate. As far as finished products go, both images are most similar to the Vaygr assault frigate. However all of their frigates look very similar with only a few differences between them. Differences that are prominent enough to differentiate them at a glance if you know what you're looking for, but they're all very obviously closely related to each other.

Resemblance the the Kol battleship is coincidental. They're both blocky space ships with turrets slapped onto the sides and antenna sticking out of the bow.

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Man, I love homeworld, specially the Vaygr. The predator feel of they ships is awesome, but the other cultures weren't bad.

>>51570542
Could an individual who has the right resources successfully build a spaceship out of wood and rubber/glue, who uses a hot air balloon like contraption to get it up into space, be able to safely travel through the stars?

If it won't work with wood, then what other materials, other than super highly advanced metallurgy, could be used as an alternative?

>>51590014
Balloon doesn't help as much as you think, since the real barrier (assuming Earth escape velocity) is going sideways fast enough to orbit. For that, you basically need rockets, or a really, really big gun.

On a planet with a much lower escape velocity, you might be able to get away with lower powered escape methods, but I really doubt wood would get you there.

However, what is pretty viable is inflatable vessels that you blow up once you have them in space. There's an inflatable module on the ISS now, and the company that made it is wanting to make a much bigger standalone version. But again, to actually get it up there you probably won't make it without metallurgy.

>>51590059
But if I do figure out a way, even if it's just ridiculous plot handwaving, is there any why it would work in the void of space itself? I'm thinking along the track that as real life space suits keep humans alive in space just fine without being made of solid metal crafted with advanced high tech metallurgy, why wouldn't someone be able to make an entire spaceship the same way?

The only thing that I can't work around is the sheer fragility of such a vessel though. Would I be able to successfully embrace this aspect and make captain/crew the incredibly brave who understand the risks and make the educated decision to travel the stars? Or is there just any plausible way to make them survive an average day in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE?

>>51590014
I think the hot air balloon is a good enough way to do it unless you're in some super hard sci fi setting.

My idea for a low budget spaceship involves a steel space frame wrapped in some kind of super glad wrap. Limit it to short trips between space-born places and it might be good enough.

>>51590366
I like the way you think!

>>51590216
Yeah, that's what I was meaning with the inflatable habitat I mentioned - it's an actual thing being looked into now, I think using rubberized fabric or something whacky like that. It's actually a lot less fragile than you'd think, compared to a metalskinned ship - the main danger to both is micrometeors, and thise will generally be going fast enough to penetrate metal anyway. If anything, the flexible inflatable vessel can absorb a little more kinetic energy than the rigid vessel.

>>51590366
The super-gladwrap is another intersting concept for a low-cost, light emergency space system. Say you have a plastic bag full of air in a vacuum - the pressure difference will rupture the bag and soill all the air. But what if you put that bag in another bag of slightly lower pressure air? The differential is low enough that it doesn't burst, and simply layering it a few times means you now have a cheap, light space liferaft that'll keep you pressurized for a few days, probably. A steel frame would be a bonus!

>>51579367
>ankylon
>weakest
Say that to the Ragnarov, which is made completely irrelevant by moving your fleet past it, or that Vasari loyalist mess that can't kill anything until level 6. Ankylon is going to lose to every other titan in a duel, but in large fleet brawls it's a major threat.

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>>51586535
They're fans of brutalism as well.

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>>51572350
As cool as that picture is, it's not at all what I imagined a GSV to look like.

>>51595281
>sit in the middle of the and spam flak
>major threat
At least the Ragnarov has DPS worthy of a titan - the Ankylon is the least shooty of the titans (to be expected from TEC loyalists) but a forgettable statline and meh-tier at best abilities mean it doesn't have anywhere near enough tankiness to make up for it.

Ragnarov + Sova bomber spam ftw

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Plenty of cool spaceships here : http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/

>>51597651
Whenever I see that picture all I can think of is that they could fit three more turrets onto the bottom side to even out the firepower.

>>51598058
The bottom turret looks a lot bigger than the others.

>>51598111
I'm not entirely sure if that thing on the very bottom is a turret, or just another conning tower. Either way, it could still use a few more regular turrets for broadsides and close in fighting. It's got a blindspot in the bottom rear. If that thing is a big turret, it still won't be effective at targeting small or medium sized craft coming from that angle.

And anyways, that kind of asymmetry is unaesthetic.

>>51597286
Flak is Kol's ability. Ankylon sits in the middle of the fight and either prevents any significant ability use and melts faces with disruption matrix or drops a massive AoE shield to counter temporary advantages. And its ulti can turn around lost battles. Meanwhile, Ragnarov is a giant Freudian symbol that can't turn fast enough to fire more than once before it is mana burned or killed. That thing is a joke even in the hands of a human player; it only really shines when you have an Advent friend to bounce your targets around with iconus guardians.

Speaking of which, you should really try countering Ragnarov with guardians. Fly past it with your fleet and create your disco ball right on its ass, then when it turns around bounce it sideways and forward through the fight so that it is pointing the wrong way again. It's hilarious.

>capital ship spam
>Sova spam
>carrier tactics with TEC
Jesus christ kid what are you doing

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post comfy spaceships

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>>51598111
Another view same artist i think, doesnt look like another turret, just kinda a weird thing sticking off the bottom.

>>51602601
Not the same artist, that's just the space yamato

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>the only universe that stalemates and gives a run for money against macross and late UC gundam wank

>>51603701
Holy shit, what's that from?

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I know there's kind of an unwritten rule about Star wars stuff in these threads but damn if Ansel didn't kill it with his redo of the Dreadnaught, kind of looks too good for post disney Star Wars

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>>51603788
And his Secutor is pure sex.

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>>51603731
That CG Space Pirate Captain Harlock movie that came out a few years ago.

Not much to it, but it was pretty.

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>>51602513

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>What's better than one huge cannon of 'fuck off' firepower?
>TWO HUGE CANNONS OF 'FUCK OFF'!

>>51603599
What setting is that, anon?

>>51572333
Trips confirm beautiful ships. Who drew this?

>>51599260
Muh Ankylon nigga.

I love the Ragnarov and its ability to end engagements quickly, but at the moment it runs out of spunk and the enemy is still kicking, your shit out of luck.

Meanwhile In large fleet engagements the side with the Ankylon would always survive, its like having a solid brick wall with lasers that other ships can hide behind.

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I do love me some moblie space guns.

>>51572583
Where are the engines?

>>51605825

Too bad that game is owned and ran by incompetent idiots.

>>51604918
What anime?

>>51605989
Space Battleship Yamato Season 2 Comet Empire

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>>51605976
Don't remind me.

I like to remember Halo the way it was. Gritty and utilitarian, with a proper focus on guns, guns, guns.

I fucking hate how they can now steamroll covenant fleets and Assault Carriers. The Suefinity needs to be burned.

>>51606388
Isn't this excused by the fact the Infinity is cutting edge on top of all the shit humanity learned from the war, on top of said Covenant fleets essentially being cultist pirates who are either fighting amongst each other or running on whatever scraps they could get from before the civil war?

you will never have a disillusioned elite partnered Han Solo-style with an equally disillusioned Brute, flying through space on a stolen cruiser staffed with paid-off Engineers and dumb AI

>>51606458
>Isn't this excused by the fact the Infinity is cutting edge on top of all the shit humanity learned from the war
That would have just made it equal to covenant ships the are just as big. But somehow covenant ships just spontaneously explodes whenever the Infinity appears. The only thing it has better the the covies is the engine.

That'll be cool. You could also be a space pirate with a crew of jackals, grunts, smelly colonist, an Elite first mate and a poncy, uptight, snarky Shan'shuym quarter-master.

>>51590690
Bigolow's the one pursuing the concept right now.

It's not rubber, it's multiple layers of materials-Kevlar for shape, Nextel, open cell foam, Nomex for fireproofing and Combitherm. Not rubber, but lots of flouropolyemors-which is why it's tougher than the tin can method.

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Horatio

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0T3KLnL9uY

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>>51603788
This typifies one of the things about most spaceships that just bugs the crap out of me: they're predicated on space working like the ocean, where movement is simply a matter of rear-facing engines imparting momentum to get the mass of the ship moving and then friction acting as the counterforce once that inertia is overcome.

In Star Wars for instance, I get that they have magic antigrav repulsor tech, but that only works with a gravity field to work against. When they need to slow down in space, they just turn their engines off and magically slow down without a single retro and pitch/yaw/roll with no sign of a reaction control system thruster.

I'm asking for the hard science of The Expanse's flip-and-burn physics, but some nod to how movement works in an essentially frictionless environment would be nice.

That was one of the great things about Babylon 5's starfuries: they got how space combat should be (pic related)

>>51609017
So stop having badwrongfun and only have fantasy like how I do?
It's all fantasy and pointless garbage but if you group agree with you, then power to you.

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Far from the coolest ship out there but I have such fond memories of Freelancer multiplayer. Usually the only human player on a server, calmly plying the spacelanes in a Humpback transport running cargo on self-planned missions all over the game universe.

After replaying the campaign full of space combat so many times there was something oddly satisfying about just being a space trader flying a cargo crate with engines.

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>>51610829

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>>51610846

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>>51610874
Anybody have more ship interiors? I'll dump what I have, and some other ships too.

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>>51610885

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>>51610900

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>>51610997

>>51572560
Ooh, that looks cool.

What is it and where can I get it without having to pay any money?

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>>51611009

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>>51611336

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>>51611353

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>>51611363

>>51613289
>>51613275
I liked how these showed that ships don't just explode "when they run out of HP" like in trek, but you have to pound the shit out of them piece by piece until there's nothing left.

>>51613602

Not like im defending trek but they did pound themself with antimatter torpedoes and most of ships in star trek universe were quite fragile withoud shield support and with very, very fucking volatile cargo in form of warp drives so its quite reasonable when the shield fails whole ship just pops like a balloon. But that's just my theory.

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>>51613602
to be fair, when a technology level supports shields its weapons would almost necessarily be powerful enough to destroy an unshielded ship, making the shield the thing that prevents critical existence failure

>>51614100
Yeah, Trek instakill explosions are usually due to the ship taking enough damage that it's systems are fucked up to the point where they lose antimatter containment which is instant doom for the ship in question.

>>51610711

You and me, brother. You and me.

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>>51604985
Mother fucking Wing Commander- the defacto number one space sim series. Nothing has ever come close to matching it's narrative, cast of characters and gameplay.

That image is from Wing Commander 5: Prophecy to be exact...
The Black Sheep of the franchise as it was meant to start a new trilogy and then EA axed it's sequel.

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>>51614100
>>51614859
Not only that their secondary power sources are usual I believe fusion reactions which are H Bombs waiting to happen but perfectly safe under normal conditions. When a ship is hulled by enemy fire isn't normal conditions and those things have a habit of blowing up.
Speaking of which, does any other setting have ships that gattai like some ships in Trek? I like my ships with gimmicks like that.

>>51613602
>>51614634
>>51614859
>>51616246
Armour's a tricky thing. The Bismarck was crippled by a single torpedo, but it then took over two hours of continous shelling from three ships to sink her...

>>51611129
Nexus: The Jupiter Incident

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>>51616387
protip: space combat is not world wars combat, though i love the ww1-in-space settings

>>51616387
>The Bismarck was crippled by a single torpedo,
I would chalk that up to poor design, the torpedo damaged the rudder on Bismarck, normally this could be compensated by the screws, however the screws were too close together to effect direction.

>>51616695
>protip: space combat is not world wars combat,
Source?

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>>51616246
Abominator GOUs can split themselves into radial segments like a giant unpeeled orange. Pic related is an Abominator to scale with a Psychopath ROU (the dildo shaped ones)

I think the Expanse had something similar.

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>>51616724
aint no oceans 'cept on planets

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>>51616782
As above, so below.

>>51603788

Ansel is ftw. The assault gunboat he did launched a thousand threads in the ffg xwing forums.

My favorites are his Algorithm replenishment vessel and the Praetor Battlecruiser

>>51599260
in fairness, haven't PvP'd in a long time, but Heavy Strike Craft + Rapid Manufacturing is breddygood when bomber spam can shred most SBs in a few passes

>>51613275
>>51613289
>>51613602
It really went down the drain after a terrific start, but by god the space battles in BSG were pure sex

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>>51610885
>Anybody have more ship interiors?
I have some doors.
What?
Doors are awesome.
1/2

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>>51619296
2/2

>>51619074
In theory, yes. Compared to Vasari or Advent playing the same game, no. First, Sova's very poor unless you're embargo rushing someone's homeworld. Both Halcyon and Skirantra are great support ships, Sova only buffs its own handful of squadrons. Second, massed capital ships have never been a good idea and TEC already has to build Dunovs and Kols in multiples. Sova is just never worth the opportunity cost of another capital ship. Or having 50 more supply for your fleet.

>>51616387
Well, that good and all until they hit your powder room or ammo dump. Then it's pretty much game over and the ship sinks/blows right away. It would be the same with Spaceships where a reaction explosion is just like if your boiler blew on a modern ship.

>>51623420
Oh boy.

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I don't know exactly why but I just love the design of these ships.

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>>51570581
PDS was the best Homeworld 2 mod and Complex is utter dog shit. Apparently there is a remake in the works for remastered. Thanks Sajuuk.

>>51579367
>sauce
Guy just did two pages of Homeworld fan comic, this one and another one i can't find on my drive, then decided he'd rather loose his time on the terribly uninspired (and visualy ugly to my taste) Our Intrepid Crew webcomic.

Also I will post pic related in every space thread I find until each and every one of you luddites aknowledge the superiority of lasers as space weapons over kinetics of all kinds.

>>51625174
>this one and another one i can't find on my drive
Oh nevermind it was just below

>>51606565
>That would have just made it equal to covenant ships the are just as big.

Wrong! Covenant ships have been advance but they lost the ability to recreate more of their huge ass Assault Carriers and other large ships way before the Human-Covenant war. Once they lost one of those ships it would be lost forever and never replace.

Whatever ships they had at the end of the war was surviving off of alien duct tape to hold it together. Humans on the other hand having their shit together figure out how to make them that big and even more dangerous.

>>51625344
>So does the aliens are stupid monkeys with really high tech and Humans can reverse engineer anything trope annoy anyone else?
I think this trope gets used a little too often and kind of too 'fuck yeah humanity'. The humans shouldn't just be able to just shit out ships. They need to pay their dues first.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqFpEfpj_Ns

>>51614550

is this the model from disneyland? I've got a ton of pics of the models from there if anyone wants em

>>51625174
I played complex for remake and its awful.
Slow as hell, research is all over the place and single unit fighters and corvettes suck.

>>51626166
are the devs still AWOL?

>>51624650
Maybe the fact that everyone realized that they'd had their models backwards when the vidya came out?

>>51626141
>They need to pay their dues first.
Humanity is controlled by a military dictatorship, they don't have to pay anyone.

>>51590014
In LOGH some prisoners make a spaceship out of a glacier and some rockets

>>51631045
>some prisoners
Those were rebels citizen.

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>>51625344
>>51626141
>le ebin human reverse-engineering meme
I get that Halo had a fairly decent part in establishing early HFY in which puny humans hold out against alien assholes through sheer bloodymindedness but the fact that 343 went ahead and took ideas from the genre in its modern form in which nobody understands how "le ebin reverse-engineering meme" actually works gets on me almost as much as the -punk suffix triggers /tg/

Does anyone have artwork of hyperlane gates? I need some for my next game.

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>>51632487

>>51626141
>>51631184
>in which puny humans hold out against alien assholes through sheer bloodymindedness
You mean lost, slowly and surely, despite everything they threw at them?
>reverse engineer
Reverse engineer what? The Infinity?
Know one actually knows how the Infinity works because it's Forerunner tech that a shitton of the floating mechanic things built for the UNSC like autistic orks. The Infinity is superior to any Covenant vessel it's weight class or lower, but there won't be another one, period.

>>51632604
Thanks mate

>>51632616
>You mean lost, slowly and surely, despite everything they threw at them?
Not him, but I sure as hell agree. Having lost that slowly was nothing short of a miracle considering that the first major naval engagement with said aliens lost a third of a 40-strong battlefleet taking down a single Covvie ship. MAC spam, the grimdark (but necessary) side of Spartan-IIs and -IIIs, Cole's Protocol and his Last Stand - making the ridiculously superior ayylmaos bleed for every world out of tenacity and occasional tactical genius was, tbqh, the apex of HFY as a genre.

Then 343 happened.

>>51626141
It's so fucking convenient that sci-fi humanity only ever encounters degenerate alien empires past their prime.

>>51634115
>Having lost that slowly was nothing short of a miracle
The reason it went that slowly was because the Covenant had to find worlds and colonies first, and after the Cole Protocol, the only time they really found them is when Forerunner ruins pointed to another location that happened to have humans on it.
That is why the UNSC wasn't crushed immediately. They managed to slow down the Covenant a fraction, but it was really the game of hide and seek, along with the Covenant splintering, that really saved humanity.

>>51634510
Ultimately, humanity put a good fight, but they won because the covenant collapsed, not because of anything they did (Master Chief notwithstanding).

>>51635527
It would be cool if humanity became a part of the covenant.

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>>51635584
It's not like that wasn't considered.
>>> EXTRACT OF SANCTIONED SANGHEILI EAVESDROP// FOR THE ATTENTION OF JIRALHANAE MILITARY ADJUNCT AMBASSADOR >>>

The Humans are weak, but they are tenacious. Even the smallest ones hurl themselves against our defenses with honor. If only the Unggoy were as committed.

>I wonder about the Humans, Commander. Their technology is limited, but some of it is useful and their battle techniques are impressive. They are excellent strategists. But what I ask is this: Why have we not offered them the absolution of the Covenant? From the beginning of this war, the Prophets have made no attempt to absorb them or even offer the option of honorable submission. Why?

Perhaps they fear them? We do not know where their homeworld is. Their pattern of retreat is either hopelessly random, or brilliantly conceived. What if the Humans have more power, more numbers than we suspect? What if they lead us to a trap?

>No. I do not think that is the reasoning. They continue to lose territory, and pattern or no pattern, these defenses must be part of a perimeter. I suspect we are forcing them into a tighter arena than they care to fight in - soon we may be able to use the Sharquoi. And their victories, however few, always rely on the same thing - strategy, brute force, or luck. No. The only secret they hold is the location of their homeworld.

What about the atrocity at Halo? That was not luck, nor brute force. The Demon is a mystery. He outwitted and outfought entire legions on Halo. Perhaps there are more like him?

>I do not believe that. We have seen their kind before and destroyed them. Their numbers have dwindled and there have been no reported sightings since our victory at Reach.

Then why do we continue to hunt them? When surely they merit consideration to accept and embrace the Covenant?

>Let us discuss this at a more prudent moment. A Jiralhanae approaches.

Source is the Halo 2 conversations from the universe booklet.

>>51635584
They were supposed to.
Mendicant Bias just started to screem scream that the humans were the Reclaimers and this heavily conflicted with the covenants doctrine. The prophets then started the genocide of humanity because they believed that if they killed all the reclaimers, they would become the Reclaimers again.
Many members of the Covenant begged the prophets to allow the humans the join after the failed first contact attempt because they admired humanity's spirt and courage in the face of death.

>>51635875
Sorry about the typos, I'm on mobile right now.

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So I went to watch more LoGH, and the channel that had them all was deleted from youtube. Shit.

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>>51624791
This thread definitely needs more FreeSpace.

Anyone else still play it?

>>51609017
In reality, it wouldn't be hard or time consuming to simply rotate your ship around and burn the engines in the opposite direction in order to slow down.

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>>51639011
Haven't in a while, but I should go back and play it. One of the finest games I have ever played, really made me feel like I was just another pilot in a war, rather than some big hero.

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Can anyone tell me about this ship? I think its from Star blazers.

>>51639991
Looks it.

>>51634163
Speaking of which, guess what just get a trailer for itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHzU9r0t2c
My god the HFY in this is heavy just from what we see. It's like inverse Avatar. I think I just can't into this shit anymore right now.

>>51640825
>My god the HFY in this is heavy just from what we see.
Why wouldn't it be?

>>51640884
No, I get it that characters like the captain and is supposed to say shit like that. But the situation the humans find themselves in is so laughable. Old ship - check, half crew - check, no backup -check; they literally hit all the crap you get in a bad sci-fi movie with the unstoppable villain on top of that. I think they push the melodrama to over 9,000 and you know what it can get tiring after awhile. Having a more layered story might be better in the long run but I guess being only a two faction RTS has its limits with that.

>>51641127
Yeah, I think they hyped the baddy a bit too much, but it makes for some good potential for the pillar of fire.

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>>51639991
Looks like one of the enemy ships from Star Blazers (ie. Space Battleshipe Yamato) I think it's a Gamilon scout/escort ship.

>>51641231
I must say, I like the turrets without barrels look.

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I find it awesome that it takes one Protoss to control a Carrier

>>51637387

Kissanime has them all, and the various movies as well.

>>51610711
I remember my glorious hokkaido (go to ainu depot buy cardamine) -> new manhattan (sell cardamine, go to detroit munitons buy light arms) -> hokkaido (go to ainu depot sell light arms) and here we go again.
Nothing like distributing arms to matriarchists terrorists and helping to distribute mutagenic drugs from an interstellar mafia's minions.

>>51625174
What exactly is pic related? Don't think I've ever seen it before.

>>51572599
Casting Satan down from the heavens, one nuke at a time.

>>51639376
The ship designs were awesome.

>>51572583
That's an interesting design, reminds me of the Leonara Christie. Where's it from?

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>>51643451
Children of a Dead Earth. The most scientifically accurate space warfare simulator ever made

>>51615722

That incredible fucking game is why I trusted Chris Roberts for so long to deliver on Star Citizen. They're making a lot of progress in the alpha builds and so now I think they really are going to deliver.

If nothing else, the art and spaceship designs from that game are going to power Spaceship General threads for years to come.

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>>51643861
Now my only experience with 'realistic space combat' is the file I read from Eclipse Phase on the subject. And from the video it seems to be true that the best way to engage is to charge at your enemy jousting style, let your weapons automatically fire and return fire as you pass. Then turn around and do it all again. Hence the while 'shiled dome' style of design that seems prevelant. Am I about right or way off?

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>>51644475
Also pics to keep the thread going

>>51572443
Organic. I think mechanical tech based on biological stuff is awesome, it's kind of a going back to basics ironic kind of thing, where we have been pursuing all these very artificial designs, but then biology had it all figured out. Sleek and Hypercybernetic are also really nice because of their alienness.

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>>51572443
>gimme dat music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKI3GgsU8Ic

And someone make some 1/72 Freespace kits already. I'll be happy with fucking vacuform (just, please, resin cockpit and thingies ok).

>>51616732
In what book did an Abominator do that?

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>>51641918
Thanks my man.

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>>51645355
Why can't there be a capital ship game like free space or wing commander?

A couple of months back, there was a Spaceship thread, and while some autists were arguing about there being no 'true stealth' in outer space, there was also some mention of a 'hard' Sci-Fi Space Battle ruleset which "takes a while to calculate the Ship's abilities while prepping, but distills them enough to run smooth in game."

Anyone remember what the rules were called?

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I liked that all the early earth ships had a strong '2001' vibe. I don't think there is another setting that really does this in sci-fi which is a shame.

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>>51650276
EA ships were pretty awesome.

>>51632825

I wish these were top-down so I could use them as tokens on Roll20.

>>51572443
IRL best? The most advanced theories I know of say that covering a geometric shape in thrusters and missiles is the best thing for a real life space fighter. Larger ships would be tubes that duel with missiles, rail guns and lasers at extremely long distances, completely out of sight of each other. No sexy armored metal boxes ramming into each other

>>51644475
>this fucker managed to make TeX look shitty

>>51650942
>duel with missiles, rail guns and lasers at extremely long distances
I doubt it, at extremely long ranges lasers are irrelevant, rail guns will be easy to track and avoid and missiles will be easier to intercept, the closer one gets the most they can make of their weapons, extreme range combat is unfeasable, the closer the better.

>>51610711
Freelancer campaign is excellent except for being ambushed too often by spacekrauts. I wish there had been at least a couple dozen systems in each factions territory, not just handful. I want a sequel so bad

>>51651251
I see a face

>>51651093
I think by extreme range he means the maximum range of the longest range weapon. So basically lasers at a couple lightseconds.
Children of a Dead Earth models everything with the most accurate unclassified physics it can, and lasers win. Any that's not taking into account some of the most advanced (and theoretically upscalable) laser diode tech.

>>51616246

Coming from a confusion with with fission reactors is the myth that fusion reactors are that "H bomb waiting to happen". In truth, a fusion reaction doesn't really go boom when the conditions for it are disrupted. The reaction just dies out.

Anti-matter reactors would be your go-to power source if you narratively want that danger in a sci-fi context, since anti-matter is normally isolated in a magnetic bottle, and should that containment field fail, it'd contact normal matter and (very) destructively annihilate.

On another subject, I've had trouble stomaching traditional space battleships for a while, not quite due to their naval-like arrangement but rather specifically the utterly non-sensical "I'm sticking out here, shoot me off and cripple the vessel please!" glass-like bridges/conning towers. It takes an ounce of research and two braincells to realize you need to put command centers deep within the armoured structure, yet so many artists can't be bothered.

>>51651602
>Children of a Dead Earth models everything with the most accurate unclassified physics it can
Yeah sure, I'll believe a video game when DARPA starts field testing with Arma mods.

>>51650942
>>51651093
Without defining what you mean by extreme ranges and what you want the technology levels to be, both of those claims are essentially meaningless.

>>51651602

I'd side with lasers as well, which provided enough power and technology would indeed be effective up to a couple of lightseconds, perhaps a bit more, depending on how quick ships can detect they're being fired upon and maneuver accordingly.

Missiles would trump railguns for main ship-to-ship combat, but neither would be able to cover those 600,000+ km anywhere near as quickly as lasers, and enemies would have hours if not days to intercept incoming projectiles.

To make those two viable, you need to severely gimp laser tech or boost other secondary techs, like electronic warfare, which could substantially reduce engagement ranges and prevent lasers from being used with full effectiveness.

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>>51651797
>Missiles would trump railguns for main ship-to-ship combat
[Develops angrily]

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>>51652139
Railguns will basically become the next all-in-one gun if/when they can get them to have a high enough fire rate without degrading the accuracy or gun components themselves. Make smaller, faster-firing ones to act as a Close In Weapons System to shoot down missiles. Use bigger ones as your main ship-to-ship weapons since more power means they'll be faster and have more penetration potential. The only thing faster is laser-weaponry, which, honestly, in a vaccum may be the main weapon depending on how badly the main beam is effected by random debris between the firing platform and the target.

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>>51652335
We're also forgetting some more obscure weaponry.

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>ctrl+f traveller
>0 results

I am disappointed, thread.

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>>51652596

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>>51652644

>>51646836
It's kind of irritating that capital ships in those kinds of games only just sit there and beamspam at close range until friendly fighters disable their subsystems so torpedo bombers can take them out.

Like, that's 90% of all capital ship engagements, and having more than 4 on the screen at a time is considered a big battle.

Meanwhile fighters have shields, FTL drives, and do pretty much anything.

>>51652139
Raillguns are limited in their max velocity by the materials the rails are made out of. They will melt if you try to go too fast.

Missiles or Coilguns are where it's at.

>>51653066
>and do pretty much anything.
But less than a capitol.

>>51651251
The D-117B Axelay is an advanced fighter. It is unique in that it is launched with a full complement of weapons, which are split into three separate categories. Each of the weapon hardpoints allows the Axelay to take damage and suffers critical damage if it is hit when a hardpoint is activated where the weapon is deactivated due to previous damage.

1. Pod
Straight Laser - Shoots a stream of laser bolts that look like fireballs.
Needle Cracker - Shoots a three stream of thin homing lasers
Wind Laser - Shoots four lasers that curve from behind and spread out shooting ahead. Can be angled to intersect or fan out more.

2. Side
Round Vulcan - Shoots a stream of vulcan shots around the Axelay. With careful control it can aim in any direction.
Morning Star - Energy shots circle the Axelay and expand their orbit until released where they will shoot in the direction they are facing,

3. Bay
Macro Missile - Shoots out four missiles in front which upon impact cause spread damage.
Explosion Bomb - Horizontal: Falls to the ground and a stream blasts along the terrain in a line. Vertical: Acts like the Macro Missile.
Cluster Bomb - Releases bombs slightly behind and below the Axelay.

>>51653633

> homing lasers
> four lasers that curve from behind
> Explosion Bomb

Eh wot m8?

>>51653725
Seems like a fairly typical loadout for a side-scrolling arcade-style shooter.

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>>51652596

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What is the best spaceship show besides Yamato?

>>51654000
Firefly. Duh. Also Star Trek, you may have heard of it.

Star Wars, film series from the seventies that recently got a reboot, there's a few ships in that...

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>>51654000
Legend of the Galactic Heroes wins due to the sheer volume of ships

>>51654221
>tried watching LOGH
>There was so much homoromance in the first few episodes I felt like I was being tricked

>>51572294
>literally space gypsy simulator

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>>51654236
I adore that show but for something with no actual "gays" in it that show is gayer than springtime. That series is the reason I can't see spaceships fighting and not think of classical music.

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>>51654236
>>51654319
Really?

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>>51654319
Needs a better game though, line infantry tactics is pretty unique.

>>51654236
>>51654319
>people so insecure about their sexuality that they see brotherhood as gay

Lemme guess. You are american?

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>>51654406
I would love something that plays like Battlefleet Gothic Armada just with controlling larger formations of ships instead of small battlegroups.
>>51654414
It never bothered me and most people I've recommend it to didn't even notice it.

>>51570542
Currently driving my party's Rogue Trader mad by dropping hints about a mysterious ship that comes out of nowhere and blasts ships into wrecks.

So far he's lost his parents, his Lunar-class cruiser, and several lucrative business ventures to it. It's tearing him apart and he's going full Ahab trying to hunt the thing down which is what I wanted all along

>>51654221
I tried to get into LOGH but I just couldn't get past the bad animation quality. Does it get any better?

>>51654873
Compared to what?

>>51654396
Have any other backgroundish images for the FPA?

>>51643861
> The most scientifically accurate space warfare simulator ever made

...so far. It could use some serious updates.

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>>51655582
Sorry, best I have.

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>>51654873
I couldn't really get into the universe myself and the whole thing of only like two guys in the whole show being competent at space battle tactics was kind of off putting.
I like the more gritty tactic/strategy based combat in B5 and Iike the more 'organic' designs many of the ships had.

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>>51656891
>two guys in the whole show being competent at space battle tactics was kind of off putting.
It gets better further in, most of the incompetent admirals die, but the idea is those two guys were in a league of their own surrounded by men that have grown accustomed to things being done a certain way, ie skirmishes outside of Iserlohn between nobles playing commander and commanders waiting for a pension, with some cowards and zealots thrown in, it also takes a lot of inspiration from history, think of Yang as Cao Cao and Reinhard as Alexander the great surrounded by Montgomerys and McClellons with the odd Robert E. Lee and Benedict Arnold here and there.

>>51651797
Even at close-ish ranges under 1000km, Children of a Dead Earth (and i fully admits it is far from perfect, but still, it give some valuable trends) tends to demonstrate kinetics of all kind can't compete unless some breathrough is made in propulsion and/or railgun technology while lasers barely progress. And considering things like
80%+ efficiency lasers diode arbitrarily stackable to any power output you may wish being well in the work, lasers have in my opinion a much, much larger growth potential.

https://www.osapublishing.org/viewmedia.cfm?uri=ASSP-2006-TuA1&seq=0

It is amusing to read the reflections of people who didn't yet achieve the >>51625174 paradigm. https://plus.google.com/+IanMallett/posts/PrJsph3RLxS

The only way i can imagine you could slip a railgun close enough to a laser ship to get a kill is by disguising it as a civilian ship, which would make it the go-to weapon of space insurgencies.

>>51606565
I need this tv miiniseries in my life. Too bad 343 is too busy sticking thiei fingers up their asses writing crappy forerunner and cortana fanfics

>>51657457
>Even at close-ish ranges under 1000km
You mean 1000m.
>unless some breathrough is made in propulsion and/or railgun technology
Hardly necessary, there are already hundreds of theoretical kinetic weapons that will certainly do the job, the only thing we're waiting on is materials.
>The only way i can imagine you could slip a railgun close enough to a laser ship to get a kill is by disguising it as a civilian ship
Laughable, if you want to get close, move forward, armor, a shield or a veil is enough to take care of any laser weapon, which should stay were it's effective, as point defense.

>>51657530
Dude, are you even playing the game or talking out of your ass?

>You mean 1000m.
I lasers beats kinetics at 1000km i fail to see you could approach anything that close under combat. And keep in mind some designs could cook stuff from ten time that distance if only the game let us do it.

>Hardly necessary, there are already hundreds of theoretical kinetic weapons that will certainly do the job, the only thing we're waiting on is materials.
>that will certainly do the job

Currently effective (emphasis on effective) range of kinetics weapons in CoaDE is, to be extremely gracious here, around 150km. So to raise that effective range to 1000km you'd need a x6.7
increase of velocity of railgun rounds. You are welcome to provide any link to papers supporting that there are material in the works offering such increase in the near future. Keep in mind that in the meantime i provided a link to a peer-reviewed document discussing efficiency of 80%+ for laser, to compare to the 3%-ish currently modeled in CoaDE. I fail to see how railguns could compete. In addition the game can't at that point use laser to intercept dumb rounds, but only missiles, which would also be technically feasible and render long range railguns even less effective.


>Laughable, if you want to get close, move forward, armor, a shield or a veil is enough to take care of any laser weapon, which should stay were it's effective, as point defense.

I will move better because i need less armor so i will keep at range and burn everything that is out of your armor, be it sensors or weapons, turning you to a slagged armored shell. Shields are sci-fi wankering and veils are, black magic and leprechauns levels of bullshit, we're talking near future realism in this context so you criticism is moot.

>>51657717
>Dude, are you even playing the game or talking out of your ass?
What's the difference? Everyone treats this game like the be all end all space sim of how things are totally going to work.
>i fail to see you could approach anything that close under combat
By moving forward.
>Currently effective
Is anywhere from the muzzle to whatever it hits first.
>you'd need a x6.7
increase of velocity of railgun rounds
No, I just have to wait or pump out a lot.
>in the near future.
Not likely, I'm no Elon musk but I'll be gratious and say 50 until we see any relative success, 80 for lazers. And your "peer review" is behind a pay wall.
>I fail to see how railguns could compete.
Raw damage, lazers can currently destroy a missile at an impressive pace, however armored targets, ablative plating and other techniques have not been touched. Kinetic projectiles have a more experienced background.
>I will move better because i need less armor so i will keep at range and burn everything that is out of your armor
It's space, the only thing I have to worry about is fuel efficiency and inertia.
>Shields are sci-fi wankering
No wonder you like sci-fi, your history is abysmal, the romans were fond of them, and metal or ceramic shards would be something to look into, particularly if they stay in orbit of the vessel.
>veils are, black magic
The ignorance keeps coming, while admittedly it's a waste of water, I'm curious if ice works as well as clouds are projected too when defending against lazers, regardless, any group of fine particles will do.

>>51657852
>Everyone treats this game like the be all end all space sim of how things are totally going to work.

No but it gives trends. The trend is "laser beats kinetics" currently.

>By moving forward.
And i can just move away, and doing it easier and better because i don't need as much armor, thanks to range.

>No, I just have to wait or pump out a lot.
You can't wait while the other guy is lasing your turrets to molten lava

> I'll be gratious and say 50 until we see any relative success, 80 for lazers. And your "peer review" is behind a pay wall.

50 or 80 years, i'd stay lasers till have more potential growth than railguns. As for the paywall, the doc was public on the darpa site, i didn't pay attention. I will try to find a free version.

>ablative plating and other techniques have not been touched. Kinetic projectiles have a more experienced background.
But dumb rounds are dumb, and lasing them to ablate a bit of them will throw them off course.

>It's space, the only thing I have to worry about is fuel efficiency and inertia.
And by needing less armor, assuming equal propulsion i will beat you to this.

>the romans were fond of them, and metal or ceramic shards would be something to look into, particularly if they stay in orbit of the vessel.
I assumed you meant something different than armor. So, what, a forward ablative material disk? the lasership will beat you even more in terms of delta-V. You still need to unmask sensors and weapons, that i can target at greater range

>I'm curious if ice works as well as clouds are projected too when defending against lazers, regardless, any group of fine particles will do.
Ah, i didn't understand what you meant. Nope, a cloud of material can't protect as much as the same mass of material used as armor, ice included, which bring us back to the previous point. Also you can't reuse it, and you can't maneuver while you're behind it as it can't follow you around, just like your ceramic shards idea.

>>51658104
>No but it gives trends.
So...when people bring up the game they don't take it seriously do they? I thought they were taking it seriously, like a kerbal war simulator.
>And i can just move away
This is more of an argument for engines and propellant.
>i'd stay lasers till have more potential growth than railguns.
I would say you're right as railguns are simple in principle, it's just a matter of materials now.
And don't bother with the paper, I don't care if it's peer review, only if the logic is sound, science is never decided by comity.
>and lasing them to ablate a bit of them will throw them off course.
In atmo maybe, and we won't find out until it's in space because light is weird.
>assuming equal propulsion i will beat you to this.
Assuming equal propulsion the battlefield remains the same.
> forward ablative material disk
Ideally, given drones, probes and listening stations, visuals won't be a problem, then it's a battle of manouvres and reaction, can't say a physical shield is my favorite means, which is why I'd rather look into debris floating around the ship.
>Nope, a cloud of material can't protect as much as the same mass of material used as armor,
This uses the very nature of a laser against it, being a light construct the small particles will cause it to defract, rendering the beam null, albeit I don't know if it will follow the ship, but having nozzles spray it forward isn't too complicated.

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Just another anon putting his 2 cents in. Couldn't you use the current tech they are working on for cloaking to make a field that bends laser attacks away from a ship?

>>51657530
The differences in effective range are big at pretty much any conceivable tech level. CoaDE is a good near-future simulation with nerfed lasers, and they're still more effective than kinetics. If you want to use current technology, the Russian Sokol-Eshelon with a reported effective range of 1,500 km (and that's through an atmosphere) has 10 minutes to zap at a spaceship firing a US Navy railgun with a muzzle velocity of 2.5 km/s. The Russian laser is actually based on a three decade old Soviet design. Put a Soviet Skif-DM space station armed with a megawatt laser against the Salyut 3 with its 23mm autocannons, and the former wins easily and can actually destroy the enemy space station, not just blind its optics. When propulsion tech gets better and combat isn't confined to LEO, spaceships armed with kinetics can hide behind the horizon less and less, making beams even more effective.

If you advocated for missiles, you'd actually have a better argument, because half a century of extensive reseach means missile tech is very advanced at present compared to laser weapons. Dumb kinetics can be easily dodged in space with a small burn, missiles cannot and must be shot down with CIWS.

The debate between lasers and kinetics is like two guys standing a couple kilometers apart on an open field, the other armed with a sniper rifle and the other trying to run close enough to lob a hand grenade. Both have the same propulsion system (legs), and cost to train and equip them is about equal, but one is far more effective than the other. Put lots of armour plating on the grenadier and he'll actually be less effective, not more.
Of course, the grenadier could drive a fast well protected vehicle, like a Bradley close enough to the sniper to throw the grenade at him, being impervious to sniper fire. This setup with superior propulsion and armour strong enough to survive sniper rounds cost about a 100 times more and requires a far more extensive supply chain to operate.

>>51658436
>CoaDE is a good near-future simulation with nerfed lasers
And Arma is a good conventional war simulator.
>Russian Sokol-Eshelon with a reported effective range of 1,500 km
It's also a glorified laser pointer, and it's used as such.
All your points are moot with that, you say "even with conventional laser" but they are still no where near as effective as conventional munitions, throw in defracting and dissipation and you have a poor weapon.
>If you advocated for missiles
I'm not, missiles are a waste for conventional war. Targeting key threats is fine, but throw a missile at every threat and you'll run out of missiles before you run out of enemies.
>The debate between lasers and kinetics is like two guys standing a couple kilometers apart on an open field
Sure.
>the other armed with a sniper rifle and the other trying to run close enough to lob a hand grenade.
More like one is armed with an airgun(the serious ones) and the other has a literal laser pointer.
>Put lots of armour plating on the grenadier and he'll actually be less effective, not more.
That's where you're wrong, otherwise we wouldn't armor our troops.
>This setup with superior propulsion and armour strong enough to survive sniper rounds cost about a 100 times more and requires a far more extensive supply chain to operate.
Yes, and? We're in space resources are less of an issue.

My point is every iteration of a laser has shown it to be nothing more of a support weapon, the ones you're talking about do not exist, the theory isn't even sound, and when they do, you bet armor and engines will advance to the point they'll be useless, the only one that shows any promise is the CIWS laser, which is already showing weaknesses because it can't penetrate clouds.

>>51658532
Those have the same problem as reflective armour: the partially protect against a very specific part of the spectrum, and if a slightly different wavelength laser is used, they're completely fucked. The Chinese PLA has actually developed some reflecting coatings that they claim are tailored against certain US lasers, composed reportedly of metals, diamonds and carbon fibre. They suffer from the same problems.

Here's the Chink propaganda piece if you're interested.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1444732/us-lasers-pla-preparing-raise-its-deflector-shields

A better defense against lasers would be armor with a good enthalpy of vaporization / mass ratio, and the simple act of spinning on the axis that points towards the enemy, which multiplies the energy required to zap through the armor if the laser beam can't stay exactly on the same spot. The best defense would be offense, however, as a bigger, better laser beats an inferior one. Or the enemy ship's optics could possible be fried at even longer range (with a laser or some other form of EW).

>>51658532
I like how you ignored Skif-DM, the laser of which was more powerful than current US lasers, could destroy LEO satellites instead of just blind them, and certainly wasn't "just a laser pointer". Also notable is that at this point the Soviets also planned a station armed with missiles to engage targets at high orbits (Kaskad), and considered both energy weapons (even with limited shots!) and guided kinetics superior to dumb kinetics.

The videogames used by armed forces in wargaming are very realisic. The first good tactical simulation for modern warfare the US Navy used (SEATAG) didn't even require computers, but was pen-and-paper. Their current computer-assisted wargames, classified and unclassified, are far more sophisticated. And I have no idea why you have a hateboner for Arma. Virtual Battlespace is an excellent representation of a certain level of warfare.

>>51658797
Whoops, meant to quote >>51658340 regarding defenses against lasers

File: sukhoi_07.jpg (157KB, 1128x546px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 1128x546px

>>51653725

Japan... doesn't really understand what those words mean in english.
Or that lasers can't be made to curve about and home in on something.

>>51651461
Stand on your head and see something else.

>>51658797
I don't know which to respond so I'll do both.
There are so many possible ways that trials are going to have to take place to see which is better between them all, polarization might make some way.

>I like how you ignored Skif-DM, the laser of which was more powerful than current US lasers, could destroy LEO satellites
Because I was ignorant of it, and it most likely just damages them beyond use.
>and considered both energy weapons (even with limited shots!) and guided kinetics superior to dumb kinetics.
I'm sure they did, I'd like to see them actually supply one.
>The videogames used by armed forces in wargaming are very realisic.
So was chess. I'll admit, people who go through a sim are a class above those that don't, but let's not pretend they're battlefield ready. And to think this space sim is actually indicative of space combat is absurd, especially when we know nothing about space. To me it's just kerbal space war.

>>51658797
Also for your Soviet space station I raise you a US warship intended for space, it's primary armament is missiles and kinetics, with a shield.

>>51658282

The killer advantage lasers ultimately have over kinetics is the vast difference in effective range, understanding such as the range in which you have a reasonable chance of landing a hit. You can charge in all you want, but any armour you have will melt away in the hours or days you'll be under continuous, nigh-unerring laser fire while closing the distance till your guns have the slightest chance of hitting anything.

Missiles fare better due to their more autonomous nature, but they will still take hours to reach a target within a couple of lightseconds (effective laser range), and all that time they'll be exposed to enemy fire. Their fuel would also be limited, so they wouldn't have a limitless ability to evade enemy lasers, accelerate AND have terminal guidance if they somehow get close enough. You'd have to really crank up missile tech (i.e. reactionless drives) to make them a credible threat to laser ships.

>>51665843
Missiles can also be easily countered by other missiles, and the defender will always have an advantage in mass/energy.

To be a threat a missile needs to accelerate to high speeds before hitting the target, but a counter missile only needs to be fast enough to put itself in the missile's path.

This is true even with reactionless drives. If you can see it coming, you can put trash between you and the missiles, and watch them puff into harmless clouds of plasma.

>>51658532

> This setup with superior propulsion and armour strong enough to survive sniper rounds cost about a 100 times more and requires a far more extensive supply chain to operate.
> Yes, and? We're in space resources are less of an issue.

Even if logistics could be disregarded (they can't be), there's no such thing as invulnerable armour and with the same resources you could field 100 "snipers", following the example.

> My point is every iteration of a laser has shown it to be nothing more of a support weapon, the ones you're talking about do not exist, the theory isn't even sound, and when they do, you bet armor and engines will advance to the point they'll be useless, the only one that shows any promise is the CIWS laser, which is already showing weaknesses because it can't penetrate clouds.

You're just putting way too much faith in armour and engines while absolutely denying any possible advancement in power generation and laser efficiency.

We won't be getting near-lightspeed engines before high-powered lasers, which is what you need to cross a laser envelope (600,000 km+) in seconds and level the playing field versus kinetics.

As for armour, as I said earlier, nothing's indestructible, and while modern soldiers are armoured, they're only somewhat more difficult to gun down by a similarly-geared enemy, and armouring a soldier to the point they'd be nigh-impervious to bullets would render them practically immobile and ineffective. That's what the other anon meant.

>>51665895

The theoretical advantage reactionless drive smart missiles would provide is the ability to accelerate AND evade indefinitely (infinite fuel), while still retain the ability to home in all the way. They'd be expensive as hell, though.

>>51662249
>soase
>advent
mein negro

>>51666019
Different anon, but I don't really like lasers as long range weapon systems because there are too many ways and technics to counter their usefulness. You have to remember that the ships in your settings will be in constant motion. So a laser unless insanely powerful will never have enough time on a single point to do enough damage. This is most evident if the ships are moving in paths that are no directly at each other. A railgun isn't as quick and accurate but if it hits the damage will be instant and full force. So I just prefer solid projectiles to energy weapons because of their less counter able nature.

>>51668250

> So a laser unless insanely powerful will never have enough time on a single point to do enough damage.

That's mostly up to fire control and target tracking. The ship itself or the laser itself would only have to make the most minute motion to keep the beam on target, considering the immense distances. And space-grade lasers are usually powerful enough (MW or GW range) to deliver a lot of energy in a very short period of time.

> A railgun isn't as quick and accurate but if it hits the damage will be instant and full force.

Sure, but it's a gigantic IF, considering the ship has to survive traversing the much larger laser envelope to even bring its weapons to bear.

But in the end, this is all giving lasers, railguns and missiles an equal chance. As I said earlier, from a narrative standpoint lasers can be gimped and other technologies boosted to alter the playing field. There's a lot of possible scenarios if you get creative.

>>51665843
>the vast difference in effective range
You do know kinetics out range lasers.
> but any armour you have will melt away in the hours or days you'll be under continuous
For the forseeable future, lasers won't be anywhere near this powerful.

>>51666019
>Even if logistics could be disregarded (they can't be)
I'm aware, but I didn't factor it into the hypothetical scenario.
>while absolutely denying any possible advancement in power generation and laser efficiency.
Yes, I am while power generation is a necessity, however I don't see lasers gaining traction any time soon.
>We won't be getting near-lightspeed engines before high-powered lasers
I would argue they're the same scale of untenable.
>would render them practically immobile and ineffective
True, here's hoping that changes some time soon.

>>51666019
It still takes time to evade interceptors, and doing so reduces the kinetic energy you are delivering to target.

And if the intercepting missiles with their non-magical engines can accelerate faster than you, then you can't evade them, period. Most theoretical reactonless thrusters have low acceleration and take a long time to reach planet killing speed. You could intercept them with much cheaper cubesat, or even sub-orbital rockets if you get the timing right.

Bottom line, kinetic energy weapons need lots of delta-v to be effective weapons, but you only need decent acceleration to be an effective countermeasure. The counter missile does not need to be going relativistic speeds.

>>51669365
http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2016/10/the-solution-to-long-range-space-combat.html

This article says that Coilguns beat raillguns, missiles, and lasers for long range because they can fire more rapidly. The projectiles are moving faster than raillgun projectiles, and they can be spammed enough to make point defense or evasion impractical.

>>51657065
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mu7WasxKcU
How is Yang Cao Cao? Reinhard is much more Cao Cao, Yang is more like Kongming, if he had accepted Liu Bei's offer to take power after he had died.
Yang never wanted power, fame, and was probably the least ambitious person in the FPA. I agree with your post, just not on who they would be.
>>51654873
For some bizarre reason, animation quality varies greatly throughout the series, so that's always there. But It definitely gets better as you go along; at what point in the series did you stop watching?

>>51670098
Range and effective range are very different things, and a laser has a far greater effective range against anything that can maneuver. Railguns are better against planets I'll admit.

>>51670469
Aren't all you guys going with the false idea that space is empty? To you, me or a spaceship, it practically is just empty space mostly but to light it very much isn't. Solar wind, gas clouds, and magnetic fields can all reek havoc on the effectiveness of a laser not so much to a coilgun/railgun I guess.

>>51670424
>How is Yang Cao Cao?
I was reaching for fitting historical figures and I was reminded of Cao Cao playing a lute in front of a city and the enemy army avoided him because he was known for being cunning, it reminded me of Yang and how his tactics made his enemies question his every move because 'it had to be a trap'.

>>51670904
That was still Kongming with Sima Yi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_Fort_Strategy#Zhuge_Liang

Cao Cao used the empty fortress strategy also, but just for a regular ambush.

>>51665843
I feel like the best argument against lasers is probably one of power generation/storage and heat dissipation. Having enough energy available for rapid discharge could be difficult for sustained firing, and even at 80% efficiency, that would be a lot of heat to dump. Further affecting the heat issue is that large radiator arrays would be fairly vulnerable to damage during combat, further degrading thermal capacity.

Of course, even in that case, railguns remain less than ideal. Coilguns maybe, bu they still have the same discharge/efficiency problems. So, if anything it would be missiles.

>>51670641
To give you an idea of how empty space really is, outer space near stars, like between the Earth and the Moon, has a density of 10 atoms per cubic cm. In interstellar space, the density is 1 atom per cm^3. The best artificially made ultrahigh vacuums on Earth have densities of about 10^5 atoms per cm^3 at best. Natural vacuum is 10,000 times better.

"Empty" is a very good description of space and laser beams won't even notice the atoms they hit. In fact, they work well enough in an atmosphere.

>>51670233
That analysis is for his personal setting and has a lot of elaborate assumptions. For example, here's one of them:

>In this setting, casaba howitzers are very expensive. On the level of modern nuclear weapons, and there's some politics behind the scenes: uranium is strictly regulated, and all warships use low grade thorium for fuel. In other settings, you can easily open up the supply of uranium and have Casaba Howitzers slash warships to pieces of thousands of kilometers away.

This also applies to things like nuclear pumped lasers, obviously.

He also assumes that a coilgun can shoot 200g pellets at 31 km/s with a 99.9% efficiency at the bare minimum, when projectrho and rocketpunk manifesto, for example, put the max theoretical efficiency at around 95%. Then there's the 5 and 25 Tesla fields when saturation should be an unsurpassable problem at around 1 T, short 90 m coilguns when they'd probably be kilometers long with reasonable assumptions so that the projectiles wouldn't melt down, etc.

>tl;dr
He wanted a setting with kinetics and space fighters, but no nukes or lasers, and made up enough stuff until he got exactly what he wanted. There's nothing wrong with nerfing things you don't like when worldbuilding, but his special scenario doesn't in any way support the general claim that kinetics are superior.

>>51671035
Like I said, I was reaching.

>>51651646
In fairness, even some of the really early progenitors of that kind of style of ship are starting to drift away from it. In the various Gundams, for example, (except for the really hammy ones) those kinds of bridges have been relegated to a back-up or emergency role and are definitely not to be used during active combat. The same goes for things like gravitational sections; you can see them start to correct for this as early as Zeta Gundam, and can contextually take it as part of the theme of the conflict between tradition, pragmatism, and necessity.

Granted, this all happens in a setting where mecha are nonetheless a pivotal part of space combat, so your mileage may vary.

>>51672120
Err, I should clarify, they don't do away with gravitational sections, but they stow them away so as to avoid being huge fuckoff targets for the enemy.

>>51651646
>"I'm sticking out here, shoot me off and cripple the vessel please!"
Some relegate the showy glass houses to being observation decks.
However your misgivings loose credibility when one considers the obvious bridge still exists.