Tell me why Returners' Final Fantasy RPG is bad.

>>51566194
They're not. They're the best set of characters in the best game in the entire series. I will Fight you on this.

>>51566194
FFd6 and SeeD are worse.

>>51566258
I'm talking about an early-00s attempt to make a Final Fantasy RPG that went badly.

I remember it's bad but not why.

File: ffrpg3e.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>51566194
>>51566900
Here's the PDF. Never actually looked at it and my laptop's resolution is too shit to read it comfortably so I'll have to check it out in a few hours once I get back to my desktop.

File: 1472963544076.gif (36KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 720x720px

>>51569063
>>51566194
Its a fucking unbalanced mathematical nightmare that relies way too much on calculating everything to an unfun degree.

>>51566194
Because most people are not passionate accountants.

>>51569118
>What is GURPS
This is actually pretty simple by my books.

>>51571431
"FATAL is worse" is never a good defense.

File: virtualoptim THE HAMMER FALLS.png (113KB, 1149x313px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1149x313px

>>51571521
No one, and I repeat no one advocates for FATAL (except Virt, the disgusting asshole). The system here >>51569063 is crunchy, quite a bit but still workable as far as I can tell.

>>51566194
Okay, reading the PDF from the top that the kind anon posted.

>percentile system
This is excessive 90% of the time compared to just using a d10 (95% of the time compared to a d20)
>pecentile system... with 5% critical fail/success
Literally better with a d20, and it's stupid even on a d20

And I kinda gave up here cause I need food.

>>51571602
So that's what he got banned for? Holy shit.

>>51573191
To be fair, it was a bit like catching Al Capone for tax evasion. They were just looking for a solid reason to ban him, since you typically can't do it just because someone's being a prick.

>>51566585

Agreed, but that doesn't make Returners good.

It's just the top of the shitheap that is FFRPGs.

>>51573268
I don't think he broke any rules with that post tho, other than having an objectively incorrect opinion.

>>51566194
I think I played this game once. I seem to remember that the rules made you recalculate EVERYTHING when you level up. Because, you know, that's how the computer processor does it in the video game version. I don't mean just "roll for more hit points", I mean "rebuild your entire sheet from scratch every level". A spreadsheet doc might help, but if the game requires a spreadsheet to level up, it's probably a bad game.

>>51571431
>GURPS is a mess meme
Stop trying to make a fucking vehicle in every game, anon.

Third Edition is bad because it followed TOO closely the videogame math.

Fourth Edition (www.reddit.com/r/ffrpg), however, is much better.

File: FFRPG 4th Character Sheet.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>51578794
And there's a character sheet (for Fourth Edition)

>>51573596
He didn't. The post is taken out of context. The thread it is replying to says that if a review of an RPG resorts to emotional appeals and cherrypicking, it is generally going to be an inaccurate review in its conclusion. Virt attempts to refute this by saying "well, most reviews of FATAL are obsessed with anal circumference and how long it is, rather than logical arguments, so therefore it must be a good game" in order to demonstrate the fallacy of the OP. Which isn't necessarily a fallacy. But the funny thing is that he got b& eternal for being kind of right, even if his post is retarded taken out of context.

Ah, FFRPG:3e. This system is a hot mess, to say the least.

Not sure where to start, even. I'd argue the biggest issue is that this system has probably the biggest case of caster favoritism since 3.x D&D. No joke, even, casters get gigantic skillsets, most of which have at least parts that don't go obsolete, alongside an out-of-combat "do whatever" option. Conversely, most physical types have tiny skillsets, which in turn are subject to obsolescence at varying rates--or have unusable chargetimes on later ones. Pity the Duelist in particular for this, for they get fixed damage codes alongside a narrow ability list. And pity the Thief for...getting treated about as badly as thieves generally do in the vidyas.

But really, I remember the tiering going in about this order:

>Mages
>Samurai, Gambler, Mystic Knight
>Most fighters
>Thief, Duelist

Oh right. Blue Mage and Summoner there were also a hot mess because they had no protection from GMs dicking them over at all.

Or should we get into the whole issue of how it couldn't reconcile the earlier games' versus later games' issue of proficiency? (You had weapon proficiencies as what your class can use...but then you had to invest skillpoints into those to use them anyway). Or the fact that Adroit made AGI or DEX or whichever it was a physical godstat.

Not even bringing up the hilarious weapon imbalance at what are presumed to be endgame levels. Third edition is kind of...a hot mess overall though.

>>51569118
>Its a fucking unbalanced mathematical nightmare that relies way too much on calculating everything to an unfun degree.
Wait, it's Pathfinder?

>>51580197
He was trolling, which isn't unusual, but is technically not permitted outside of /b/

I should note that even if he was earnest in his belief, he was still trolling.

>>51581735
Mark Story's review hits the mark perfectly (you can find it at http://trollitc.com/2011/01/returners-ffrpg-a-short-review/)

"Remember playing any Final Fantasy game from I-X? Remember standing in a line in front of your enemies, who are also in a line? Remember jumping forward, attacking once, and jumping back? Remember the menu navigating to use health and mana potions, choose spells, attack, defend, or call on whatever giant summon is in this particular game?
FFRPG has captured that perfectly; It’s excruciating."

>>51566194

Depends on which Returner's you're talking about.

2nd Edition was terrible, 3rd Edition is kinda playable (I know who play it to this day, but it has serious math and balance problems... much like D&D 3.5) and 4th Edition is good to go.

>>51581922
By that logic, pretty much every ">implying" post on /tg/, is trolling.

He was definitely a twat but it was less like getting Al Capone on tax evasion and more like getting him on tying his crocodile to a lamp post. That said the post is very funny taken out of context, I believe it was in the running for a /tg/ banner. I saw it and kekked my ass off because I was in that thread.

All I remember is that making a "Pirate Captain" class was the most fun thing I could do.
Jump to represent swinging on a rope, a bunch of 1 off elemental effects that took a turn to activate that effected everyone on the field, and a few big blowouts to represent his ship. Was fun.

All I remember about it is that the game was, like 5 or 10 years as Beta and suddenly soon after it was finished the site and all support for it died

>>51571431
>What is GURPS
a system with a simple "3d6 roll under skill" core mechanic and a bunch of ways to modify said rolls that you can get used to in a single session if you're not clinically retarded.

>This is actually pretty simple by my books.
>percentiles, percentiles everywhere
>those fucking modifiers mixing up fractions, percentiles and big-ass tables
>that fucking magic list
>that fucking mix table alone

Please leave /tg/ and not play or GM anything ever again, thank you.

>>51589577
Methinks >>51571431 was saying GURPS is simple.

I look forward to reading this 4th edition and seeing how things changed, though.