Doesn't the whole returning of primarchs thing go completely

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>>51553609
Yes. Advancing the plot of a setting is also tarded. It should be about the stories within the universe, not about the universe's story.

>>51553636
That makes no sense.

Yeah it goes against the established trends. The reason being the established trends got stale and don't sell as well as investors would like to.
Essentially GW, is repeating what they did with Warhammer Fantasy - rapid development followed by narrative scrapping of the setting and a complete reboot with stronger focus on younger audience.

>>51553648
Read any of the 40k novels, or even the side bars and little histories in the codices.They don't impact the whole setting, but they're all engaging narratives set in it. 40k is good because of the possibility for those narratives. Advancing the whole setting gets rid of that and misses the point.

>>51553609
>Doesn't the whole returning of primarchs thing go completely against the underlining theme of stagnancy and decay within the 40k universe?
Yep they refocusing 40k from grim and darkness future into more family-friendly.

>>51553609
Take it as a sign of closing death of the grim, dark hammer of the 40K and beginning of the AoS40K.
And rejoice, for GW will finally fuck off and stop polluting the setting with it's bullshit.

not necessarily, i mean the gathering storm will probably end in a way that the imperium has achance, but primarchs returning doesn't at all mean Imperium stands a chance,especially considering chaos primarchs are returning as well.

>>51553609
Pretty much. The new setting direction is clearly to buff up the Imperium after the loss of Cadia. Make the regime more benevolent and such.

>>51553636
There's only so much of nothing mattering one can take before you lose interest.

>>51553982
These men are nihilists Donnie, they aren't a threat

>>51553609
Stagnancy and decay tends to shrink the universe and reduce the amount of cool shit you can put in it in terms of new units/factions/events.

The Darkness and the forces who fight it should have some occassional parity. Especially given that in 40k there are no real good factions to begin with.

As long as things get epic I don't mind myself. But there should totally be references to alternate universes where Chaos won like in that Ultramarines book with Uriel Ventris where he briefly sees Chaos dominated galaxies and shit when travelling the warp.

>>51554063
>40k there are no real good factions
>what is Ultramarines

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>>51554204
The Primarch who got rekt by a non astartes? Good? lol

>>51554063
To be fair the only people growing here are the Imperium. The Eldar just net shrunk losing the most major craftworld and webway city

So 'decay' is pretty much still the theme for everyone who isn't the Imperium or Chaos

Also the return of Girlyman means we're clealry about to get our purity sue good guy faction

>>51554249
They gained a literal god though.

>>51553609
I do think this, but I considered the following:

This is giving us another era to play in. We can now play in the Horus Heresy, the 10,000 year long Age of the Imperium, and The Gathering Storm.

For example the Dark Heresy game I play in is set long before the 13th even started showing possibilities of starting. Many things in 40k are.

We aren't restricted to the latest point in time of the lore. If we were, no-one would play Armageddon campaigns, no-one would re-enact the Battle of Macragge, the Fall of Damnos, the Taros campaign, and a thousand other wars both canon and fan-written.

If you feel like the usual style of setting is dying, you're missing the point. It isn't dying any more than 30k is dead because 40k exists. We're just seeing what happens next.

>>51554249

Biel-tan didn't get destroyed and they got a literal God out of the event. That's a good trade. Imperium lost Cadia and got a primarch. That's a shitty trade. A superhuman doesn't really add much on a planetary scale and Cadia was the last blockade before Terra.

>>51554243
>Good?
Noblebright progressive paladins.

>>51554271
>A God who had less poer and influence than a Primarch, who's only contributions to the plot are saving a Primarch
To be fair all Ynnead has done so far is wipe out the two biggest Eldar factions. I'd rather not have a God like that but a Primarch who whoops Chaos' ass.

>>51553726
>>51553729
Did you guys read Fall of Cadia? Shit was grimdark as fuck.

>>51554369
Dude Roboute is way better than Ynnead. We already know that Roboute's gonna save Ultramar and Terra, beating Abby.

What does Ynnead do? Kills Commorragh and Biel-tan, Ynnead doesn't beat a single important Chaos force.

What the fuck are you smoking, Primarch's way more useful that some lameass God, Ynnead's even being upstaged in the actual fluff, Guilliman's the hope in the darkness when things start going right, all Ynnead does is team kill and then resurrect Guilliman. Lol's the Eldar's biggest contribution to the plot is buffing Ultramarines.

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>>51553609
I'm not opposed to the Primarchs returning, but I wish their models were a little less... ostentatious. There's a clean elegance to the FW primarchs that the new GW one lacks.

>>51554307
True, and this is something the various games in the setting have taken advantage of for a while (Only War, for example, takes place before the third war for Armageddon).

>>51554447
>There's a clean elegance to the FW primarchs that the new GW one lacks.

You can say that about anything they both make.

>>51553609
I remember that the decision to focus on the various captains and chapter masters instead of the primarchs and gods was to reinforce the tone of the setting being about after the various golden ages and each story being small compared to what is the setting as a whole.

times changed.

>>51554447
That's the first angle I've seen of that model that makes it look less than atrocious. Still definitely not to my tastes though, for the same reason you mentioned (as well as looking like an action figure).

>>51554459
IDK, I actually think GW knocked it out of the park with the plastic Thousand Sons (apart from Magnus, who looks a bit too toy-like for me). They made them elaborate, but without it being overwhelming like nu-Gorillaman.

>>51554689
That's true. They still do decent rank and file guys, and the Ad Mech stuff works because they're busy in the right way, but a lot of things have just been really hit or miss recently. They're trying to be too ostentatious.

>>51554243
He got wrecked by Daemonic Fulgrim.

>>51553609
Blizzard did it, it works for a while (until you changed the setting so much that whay people likes about it is gone). It was an obvious move after the popularity of HH

>>51554539
Look GW is desperately trying to say they aren't destroying 40K. This is because of how much of a shitshow Age of Shitmar was. This horseshit is going to end in one of 3 ways.

A) 40K ends because Rawbutt Girlyman fixes everything via the power of "JUST DO IT!" He is totally capable of that afterall he did organize the Imperium originally and he can reorganize it again, this time fixing EVERYTHING.

B) 40K ends because GW, in a retarded attempt at plot advancement, has to do something to obliterate the Imperium so Rawbutt doesn't just fix everything. Like killing the Emperor or some such stupid shit like that.

C) This entire advancement of the plot is a farce to sell more models (this is probably the most likely thing to happen), because they will pretend to advance the plot but at the end of this "Coming Storm" things will be VERY similar to how they were before, a few factions have different names or are slightly reduced in strength (via asspulls) but the setting is still 40K to the core. This makes all of this hullabaloo fucking pointless.

Pick your poison.

>>51554734
I love how spergs are still mad about aos

>>51553609
Age of Emperor

I thought they werent stupid enough :(

>>51553695
Wrong, it creates a chance to tell whole new stories in a different narrative.

>>51553982
>30.000 years
>more than a million worlds
>nothing mattering

Going by that claim, Deff Skwadron is shit because it takes place on planet bumfuck IV, in a war between two minor warlords and is completely irrelevant to the main storyline.

You can make good stories without involving the big guys. In fact I'd say it's better when you do so, because it prevents the dozen contradictory interpretations and retcons we have nowadays. Like, this is the second 13th black Crusade, I don't have much excitement and faith that it will be set in stone forever.

And anyways, the primarchs' power-levels mean that they fit better in Epic than in 40k.

What's next, Gork and Mork in Kill Team ?

>>51554408
>Shit was grimdark as fuck.
It was stupid as fuck

>>51554836
Grimdark and stupid go hand-in-hand.

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>>51553609
short answer

>>51554871
>go hand-in-hand.
Nope, grimdark exist in details, Fall of Cadia had lack of details and was ver poorly written

>>51553695

That's stupid.

1. There's over 10,000 years of lore to fill the gaps in with, so even if some crazy shit goes down at the end you have plenty of space to create new stories.

2. The galaxy is fuck-heug, so short of the Universe outright ending or a major faction outright ceasing to exist, what happens on one end of the galaxy will hardly have an effect on what goes on the other side. The people fighting on Armageddon don't give a single fuck about Cadia falling or Guilliman coming back.

The arguments for non-advancement of the setting have always been pathetic.

>>51554871
No. Annihilation Squad was the most grimdark piece of 40k fluff I've read, and it's wasn't one bit stupid or over the top.
The Redeemer comic, on the other hand, is so gung ho that I wouldn't dare call it grimdark, despite the world-ending threats, extreme levels of xenophoby and genocide, and absence of good guys.

>>51553609
>a far different tone when humans now have an actual demi-god leading them...

Kinda ruins the whole "your dudes" thing, doesn't it? Hard to feel like your personal/favourite marine chapter is of much important now that the Ultramarines get their own super marine god.

>>51554985
Well, they did leave open two Primarch slots so you can have your own Primarchs too.

>WH40K
>Not anymore so grimdark
>The future will be noblebright

One can dream...

>>51554447
What is the lead pipe bayonet under the heavy bolter supposed to be?

>>51554903
If there's over 10,000 years of lore to fill the gaps in with, what's the point in making some crazy shit go down at the end?
Stability is a big point for GAME settings, barring some exceptions, and 40k is still a game first. Those changes affect the narratives of all armies involved, and restrict player agenda.


Also
>implying things like Ynnead doesn't have consequences everywhere.

>>51555034
Maybe a igniter for a combi flamer?

We are no longer in Thatcher era, mate.
Get over it.
You wanker.

>>51555060
>Thatcher era,
Yeah, Thatcher saved UK, May ruined it, thematic of hope and salvation more actual now.

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>>51553609
Short Answer: Yes. This is the biggest change in tone since 3rd.

>>51554063
>Stagnancy and decay tends to shrink the universe and reduce the amount of cool shit you can put in it in terms of new units/factions/events.
I don't think the 40k universe has felt as small as it does now. It's more the story of a few men, and less a wide galaxy for your stories than it was before. Like >>51554985 says, your dudes are squashed to the corners.

>>51554307
But whether it's because they kill the setting or, advance it beyond what it was, it's still going to mean the setting we know will lose support, and slowly die.

>>51554447
I feel like there's a Slaaneshi daemon prince in the making with that model.

>>51554880
Also wrong answer.

>>51554903
>1. There's over 10,000 years of lore to fill the gaps in with, so even if some crazy shit goes down at the end you have plenty of space to create new stories.
One less planet than before, and a planet where a lot of stories were set to happen.

>The galaxy is fuck-heug, so short of the Universe outright ending or a major faction outright ceasing to exist, what happens on one end of the galaxy will hardly have an effect on what goes on the other side. The people fighting on Armageddon don't give a single fuck about Cadia falling or Guilliman coming back.
And yet GW requires every event have galactic consequences. Returning gods and primarchs, new factions that somehow are more able to effect the galaxy than those before them.

>The arguments for non-advancement of the setting have always been pathetic.
How about the fact that GW's current writers will cock it up and are better off leaving what was made by their betters alone?

>>51555034
Ynnead's only consequence is bringing back Roboute, it literally does nothing else.

>>51555202
It also gets rid of Slaanesh.

>>51555202
No it doesn't. It gets rid of Biel-Tan and Commorraggh, read idiot

>>51555209
Wait a minute here...
Why did they kill off slaanesh? I mean, that was probably a decision taken at top level. What will now happen with all the people having a slaanesh army?

>>51555248
Slaanesh isn't dead, Ynnead isn't strong enough to do it, that's why they have to go bring back Roboute to do it for them.

>>51555248
>What will now happen with all the people having a slaanesh army?
Nothing.

Wouldn't it be funny if Guilliman got completely annihilated by a new or existing villain, just to establish that villain's threat level?

>>51555297
>Primarch in 40k losing
Not gonna happen

GW's has already established Roboute's bigger than a God and he's gonna hand Chaos its ass too

>>51555297
Nh it's Emperor role in event.

>>51555312
But they already established that Abaddon is also bigger than god.

>>51555362
Not really.

>>51555387
Yes, really. Celestine was no match for Abaddon on her own.

Girlyman is not as powerful as the Corpse bride of the Emperor.

>>51555417
Girlyman could literally bitchslap Celestine to death

>>51554391

If Ynnead managed to wipe out Biel'tan and the Commorites it already makes him more successful than every other faction that's tried it. The problem is, every Eldar must die for Ynnead to reach his Slaanesh-killing potential.

>>51555431
Celestine was murdering greater daemon left and right. Primarchs are not that powerful.

>>51555433
Chaos wipes out Biel-tan and Commorragh, Ynnari just open the door for them.

Also nah whole point of Yvraine is she says all Eldar don't have to die. Ynnead just sucks is all, doesn't even beeat a single Chaos thing of importance, whilst Girlyman's gonna break Abby's face.

>>51555439
Wat?

Yes they are. Primarchs are far more powerful than that

>>51555441

Yvraine is wrong, and Guilliman has nothing to do with defeating Slaanesh. Abaddon is of no interest to Ynnead.

Also Biel'tan's infinity circuit creates the avatar of Ynnead so obviously Chaos did not destroy it, they'd have taken those souls. Unless even a stillborn Ynnead is strong enough to prevent it.

>>51555443
What would be a eldar equivalent of a Primarch

>>51555444
Chaos destroys Biel'tan. Yvrainne just breaks their Infinity Circuit. Ynnead still can't do shit and doesn't do shit during the entire book

Literally the only point of the Ynnari is that they run away to Macragge and bring back Roboute, they don't do anything else cause they're too weak

>>51555443
Nope. We have seen many times that Primarchs struggle with greater daemons.

>>51555463


If Biel'tan's infinity circuit is destroyed and Ynnead uses the souls instead of Chaos getting them, even a stillborn Ynnead is indeed powerful enough to cockblock Slaanesh.
Ynnead can't kill Slaanesh because all Eldar are not dead. That needs to happen. The heralds are just regular illic-tier characters and can go involve themselves with smurfs for all I care.

>>51555476
Except for Sanguinius. Who kills all of them.

>>51554204
>Catholic Space Nazis are the good guys

Please

>>51554447
>There's a clean elegance to the FW primarchs that the new GW one lacks
Literally everything GW produces is ostentatious and lacks clean elegance by bloating everything with details, it's their trademark. If you want other style of models, more clean/pretty you should look another brands.

>>51555484
Ynnead literally does shit other than bring Roboute back.

Name one thing it beats, or one battle it wins.

>>51555486
Got his legs broken and KO'ed at the first try.

>>51554447
CAPE

>>51555463
>they don't do anything else
Except they destroyed all named craftworlds.
>cause they're too weak
Dude, it's only relevant and strongest eldar faction.

>>51555488
Welcome to the age of Roboute, prepare for best Imperium

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>>51555496
Are we talking about the same guy?

>>51555488
>>Catholic Space Nazis are the good guys
That's Black Templars, not Ultramarines.

>>51555494
Wait for the new book. It' one week away.

Anyways, Ahriman and Vect are the villains of the coming book.

Who are going be the villains of the Girtlyman book?

>>51555500
So Ynnari are confirmed for being the biggest team killers around?

Also being the only relevant Eldar faction isn't saying much anymore when Commorragh is gone, only strong Craftworld is kaboom and all Infinity Circuits are gone. At this point Eldar are probably weaker than most minor xenos

>>51554243
Who rekt him

>>51555507
Yes. He lost his first fight against Ka'pandaman.

>>51555522
Didn't he then come back and own him?

>>51555522
He lost his first fight against literally the mighiest of all Khorne's servants, and then beat him twice along with countless other Greater daemons.

>>51555531
Yep. Battle two ended in draw when Sangy threw him back into the Warp portal.

The third battle ended with Sangy breaking his back and killing him.

>>51555517
>At this point Eldar are probably weaker than most minor xenos
yep, but still Ynnari main eldar faction now.

>>51554447
Is the sword of the Emperor literally the Emperor's or is it just called like that?

>>51555538
Greater Daemons are shit compared to Primarchs, that's for sure, even the mightiest servant of the most powerful God in existence can't actually keep them beat

>>51555548
So might as well not play Eldar? Cause we have no more impact other than as an Imperium's bitch?

Great

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>>51555562
I mean, every faction except Chaos has been the bitch of Girlyman and the Ultramarines for a couple decades now.

>>51555573
Space Wolves got to kick ass and take names, Blood Angels too.

Whole Ynnead plotline reduced to 'battery power for Roboute'

>>51555562
Yep, this isn't about "your dudes" now, it's all about Ultramarines.

>>51553609
True but don't forget; 40k is also a game of epic scale and ridiculous proportions. You can't just have the setting decay into nothingness, you have to go out with a bang.

>>51555538
Retconned.

Ka'pandaman isn't the strongest. He is a third host Bloodthister. A third rate Khornate greater daemon.

>>51555584
You fool, that's literally what the point was. It was decay of such ridiculously epic proportions that it's shocking.

>>51555538
>literally the mighiest of all Khorne's servants

Ka'bumble is a third choir bloodthirster, not even 2nd lmao

How would Rowboat react with the Tau, Newcrons and Squats?

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>>51555650
WHAT HAVE YOU BLUE FAGGOTS DONE TO MY EMPIRE

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>>51553609

>>51555439
Celestine is 135 points (or 200 with two side bitches). Primarchs are ~400 points. Primarchs are obviously more powerful :^)

>>51553609
That's probably the point, the primarchs will come back to the decaying Imperium just before the end. Also remember that for the Primarchs time is not particularly important so the Horus Heresy is still fresh in their minds and the battle for the Emperors dream versus the reality of their chaos patrons is still pretty raw. It's because of that that the ending of 40k looks like it'll be really imperium centric and xenos won't get much attention at all.

What's this about Commorragh being destroyed? Is that literally in the book or just some /tg/ meme over-reaction?

>>51553609

It possibly goes against the Imperium gradually decaying, but there is no confirmation or inkling of what happens at the end of the third Gathering Storm book. Guilliman is apparently on some type of life support and was only brought back via the combineed powers of the Imperium and the Ynnari, so it's entirely possible he will die at the end of the book or once again be reduced to a non-functioning state. Alternatively if the new status quo becomes constant war everywhere, he'll be too busy actively coordinating the war effort to go about implementing reforms in the Imperium, Warhammer Community preview suggests something to that effect.

The arguments for 40k not advancing have always been dumb and bad, propagated by people who don't seem to know anything else by stagnation and/or those too enamored with sucking themselves off that they demand the universe cater to them and that the game not have any character who could be more important than there own, despite such already existing. Such people also seem unable to fathom that if they really don't like what GW is doing then they can do their own thing and that no one is holding a gun to their head and saying their army or its lore must confirm to what GW has recently written.

>>51554063

>Stagnancy and decay tends to shrink the universe and reduce the amount of cool shit you can put in it in terms of new units/factions/events.

This is another thing. For 40k to continue to live it requires new models to be created, this likely becomes grating to do when you have to come up with an excuse like it always magically existing, being the product of an unearthed STC, or acting like it's some minute thing that doesn't really exist in great numbers except for it to gradually start appearing more and more. Remember how the Riptide got shit for being everywhere despite originally being experimental?

Tzeentch got powerful, so change is happening.

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>>51556447
HAHA MUTATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

>>51555988
It hasn't been outright destroyed yet but it was basically stated to be a matter of time in recent DEldar fluff due to the Gate of Khaine

>>51555988
if some of the leaked fluff is to be believed, vect made commorragh 2

Say what you want about the shenanigans relating to the Codex, but this is a true-blue founding pillar of the Imperium rising up. Real hope-inspiring stuff.

Also
>flaming power bastard sword
>this supposedly takes place right at the very beginning of the End Times

>Guilliman's first action upon waking up and being informed of what's going on is to fly back to Terra and/or maybe the Black templars and claim his father's sword by right of inheritance

>>51553609
>Doesn't the whole returning of primarchs thing go completely against the underlining theme of stagnancy and decay within the 40k universe?
Yes, but that's fine because the whole nohope grimderping was the single worst thing about modern 40k in the first place.

Reminder that early 40k wasn't at all as cheerlessly gothy but had much more Dredd/2000AD vibes

>>51556756
>but had much more Dredd/2000AD vibes
Yeah and new noblebright shit doesn't fit it.

>>51556840
Neither did New Grimdark, at least this is less insufferable

>>51556849
>at least this is less insufferable
Go back to your general, shiteater.

>>51555461
Phoenix Lords.

~6 months from now, people will shitpost in the Age of Guilliman general, trying to defend yet another game with amazing rules like "if you have the biggest beard on the table, re-roll".

>>51556911
What general?

>>51557001

Going by stats and what BL has written, the Phoenix Lords aren't really close to the Primarchs.

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>>51556756
>Reminder that early 40k wasn't at all as cheerlessly gothy but had much more Dredd/2000AD vibes
Reminder that the famous "Laughter of thirsting gods, you will not be missed." spiel was still the first words in the book. It was always dark, just used to be more in touch with its mad punk roots.

>>51557001
Good one anon, one Primarch could kill all the Phoenix Lords with his eyes closed

Even fucking Eldar Gods can't fight Primarchs

>>51556247
>The arguments for 40k not advancing have always been dumb and bad, propagated by people who don't seem to know anything else by stagnation

I can understand where they're coming from. The emotional crux of 40k is that feeling of "1 minute to midnight" where you're standing on the edge of the cliff just before everything goes straight to hell. It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here, it's merely a question of when. That's a difficult spot to be in narratively. If you advance the metaplot past the tipping point then the setting dies, no matter what comes out the other end it won't be the same. But if you try to advance it without going over that tipping point than you can easily reach a point where your audience stops caring since there don't ever seem to be any major consequences. A good enough writer could walk that line between advancing the plot without destroying the setting but I don't think GW has anyone that fits the bill.

I haven't been keeping up with this at all, have Vulkan or Rogal Dorn shown up yet?

>>51560739
both dead, boy.

>>51558097
You two aren't disagreeing. 2000AD was also retardedly grim and dark, but it was all in a tongue in cheek or satirical sort of way.

>>51560754
I thought Vulkan was undeadable.

Wait, GW is sending the galaxy up the shitter just like the End Times?
I thought 40k was popular, why do they feel they need to kill the system?

Also the official death of 'your dudes', 'your stories' and 'imagination' seems to be GW's aim atm, seen less and less emphasis on it with succeeding generations.

>>51561028
I guess they ran out of ways to spin their wheels. 20 years of the same status quo must have gotten dull, even to them.

>>51555650

Newcrons are friends to the Imperium, Tazyn mentioned he was Girlyman's friend before

>>51560754

rowboat was dead too

>>51561028
>Wait, GW is sending the galaxy up the shitter just like the End Times?
Not exactly, it's pretty obviou that Milky Way aren't going anyway, but more likely it will be totally different from 40k Milky Way, more close to AoS magical realms.

>>51561028
>just like the End Times?
they're doing something, but have gone out of their way to say they aren't killing the setting

>>51555548
I knew it from the start that this gathering storm is going to be total bollocks that ain't worth paying attention to.

Fuck this "Ynnari" bullshit.
It's fucking retarded and I will proceed to ignore it completely.

GW is absolutely insane to merge the Eldar. Goodbye all the things that made those factions interesting.
The person who thought this retarded shit up deserves a bullet to his/her head.

>>51553609
STOP COMPLAINING I KNOW YOU DON'T ACTUALLY CARE.

>>51555988
Khaines gate blows open and Commoragh is swarmed with deamons, because despite warp breaches having happened before, and being dealt with by sealing off sections of Commoragh, Khaine's gate is SUPER SPESHUL ALL REACHING BREACH THAT CANNOT BE CONTAINED BECAUSE REASONS!!! that some faggot at GW thought up in the last Deldar codex.
Basically, CWE and DE are squatted, enjoy your Aledari, faggot.

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>>51555488
Ultramarines are OCD space romans, you baka.

>>51555488
>catholic
>nazis
>in space
sounds pretty good senpai

>>51562093
>sounds pretty good senpai
Too bad it's not about Ultramarines.
Sad, but there is only one sci-fi Nazi-like Empire left

>>51562149
>only one
nah tyrannical spess empires are a staple of sci-fi, and are nazi to various degrees.

Fantasy player here. Just waiting until 40K End Times hit.

Burn with us, fuckers.

>>51561028

You say this and yet AoS is pretty your dudes. Of the four new armies they added, there have been a total four new special characters added, any others that exist are holdovers from Fantasy which didn't get rebranded as generics.

>>51561248

The Eldar aren't merging though. You're part of the problem with the 40k portion of /tg/, you take someone's word for something no matter how halfassed it is without bothering to do your own research.

>>51563519
>The Eldar aren't merging though.
They literally are.
The White Dwarf flat out states that most Eldar have joined the Ynnari, with only few ultra conservative groups remaining out of that bs.

>>51562795
This is why everyone hates fantasy grognards

>>51561076
wat

>>51563766
it ain't as absurd as you think, seeing that Szarekh had somehow met Sanguinus

>>51554447
Yes, buy Cypher's model is one of the best among the whole 40k range. I must have it.

>>51563979
*but

>>51563519
>and yet AoS is pretty your dudes.
Well nope, since setting only about Siggy and his superfriends and nothing more. "your dudes" will be totally irrelevant

>>51563654
>implying someone likes 40kkids
You laughed when our game died, now tastte it on yourselves

The Tau will form an alliance with Guilliman.

>>51553609

Agreed, with the way things are going 40k is gonig to turn into a standart sci-fi with nothing unique about it.

>>51556447
Funny, because when Nurgle got powerful in WHFB death happened. For the whole setting, that is.

Second Age of Strife.

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>>51553609
If only we could keep that face for his new model

>>51555476
>ferrus chokes them to death
>lion stabs a shocked fateweaver while his mind was being read
>sangy kills them by the tens
Guilliman will be fine

>>51553609
>>51553636

I used to be of this opinion, but I've been into 40k long enough that seeing new shit happen is pretty cool.

>/tg/ before

"God nothing ever happens in 40k why should we even care none of the major events will ever matter UGH"

>/tg/ now

"OY VEY IT'S ANUDDA AOS SOUND THE ALARMS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

It's almost like fa/tg/uys just enjoy being angry about shit that doesn't matter.

>>51564439
>shit that doesn't matter.
>death of setting as people knew and loved
>shit that doesn't matter.

>>51553609
I think it would be amusing if Guilliman returned, tried his best to change the stagnancy of the setting and ultimately accomplished nothing.

Also, is he going to get his gauntlets back from Calgar? There's a bunch of his other wargear that other chapters are hoarding if I remember correctly.

Maybe that will be the new plotline for Guilliman. He's on an epic quest to get all of his shit back that chapters have stolen over 9,000 years.

>it's an arrogant neckbeards think they know the setting better than its authors episode

Nothing is dying, the timeline progresses as it was meant to by Games Workshop.

>>51564591
>Ward;the post

Just break the Imperium into smithereens and double down on the marines = knights thing already.

>>51553695
I'm going to say that since GW stated "everything is canon, but not everything is true" allows the setting to advance, yet leaves room for players to pick what matters to them. I personally think the 'nids are completely retarded as canon goes, so I play a splinter of a hive fleet that evolved differently from the rest.

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>>51553609

This is the Age of the Emperor.

It will still be called Warhammer 40,000 but the rules will fit on 5 pages, the models will look like Hasbro rejects and the Imperium will be a tolerate and safe environment for all civic xenos.

Just fuck my shit up famalam.

>>51564578
Guilliman is going to die by Abaddon's hand, so that GW can have this "big event" but keep the setting frozen, and so that Abaddon can finally be given enough handjobs from the writers that maybe, just maybe, we will quit making fun of Old Armless.

Calling it now.

>>51564607
Can't be, no mention of Ultrafucks or the metaphorical humping of Girlyman's leg in that post.

I think the rules and setting needs some pruning, just not to the extend of Age of Sigmar,.

>>51553609
The problem is that warhammer 40k isn't a story, it's a toolkit for making stories. It's purpose made for players or companies or novelists to create stories about space marines and chaos and orcs and all these things, in their own minds or on the table or in a pc game. You can't just change what is 40k because that constitutes tossing out someone's favorite tool from the box.
It's not a single player video game where you get away with people giving a shit about the world story except the guys who just collect the models and read the books.
>>51564591
The star wars prequels were great
>>51554753
How is it at all fucking odd to be mad a 30 year old game you loved was shitcanned for something totally thematically different?
Who is autistic enough to think people don't have the right to be bitter cunts about that, seriously.

>>51564276
And people say that plastic sprues retain the same level of detail as the resin minis.

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>>51565190
People say that?

>>51553609
I suspect it is there to just raise hope to dash it more harshly than imaginable

Al said I'm of two minds on Robot himself, I think its cool to have the closest thing they have to superman coming back in the darkest hour, but the problem is that it makes it all more and more about the imperium alone, with the other factions reduced to... being in the way

>>51554712
GW has never understood the idea of subtlety or understated regality

>>51565323
thats the problem with setting wide story, tau and orcs in particular are literally irrelevant to any thing, with necrons and tyranids being tossups.
Any big dick story has to be chaos eldar and the imperium.

>>51555202
Ynnead is Piccolo fusing with Kami, its hype as fuck until the Saiyans step out of the Time Chamber, It's becoming the Primarch's vs Chaos show, Guest starring the Imperium, Necrons, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids and Orks are now under "The Rest" we don't even get to be Yamcha, we're fucking Saibamen

>>51565382
the trouble is that none of the other factions are given a meaningful role in the conflict, Even in End Times Most of the factions were given something to do, Lizardmen led off the worst of the Skaven's threats, Undead Unified under Nagash, Elves United and worked with the Empire, even if the ending was a fizzle, most of the playable factions got to feel relevant.... granted they fucked that up for the poor Bretonnians

>>51553609
Who here's hoping for some kind of Primarch builder or something so you can make your own custom list Primarch?
That could be a neat army to field, Lost Legion.

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>>51554712
same reason that aos stuff tends to fail aesthetically.

There will never ever be a better timeline of gw's aesthetic sensibilities than the three Archaons.
In ye olde days they were silly, and didn't really have strong artistic sensibilities but they knew what was cool and they did the best they could to be interesting and fun with what little scale they could. Very much still full of "soul" even if it's lacking skill.
Then as time goes on they get better and better at what they're doing and they start to hone their craft, bringing genuine artistic mastery to their "soul", creating some very pretty stuff with just the right amount of pizzaz for a little man you put on a table.
Then, now, when they've turned the practical benefits of computer sculpting of unlimited in time and much greater scale to utter retarded ends, forgetting that the miniatures are intended to be game pieces ment to stand 28mm tall and be instantly iconic and instead going full retard. This still produces good work when the models are small or meant to be ornate like the mechanicus or the thousand sons marines, but if it's fleshy or large like the wulfen or...most of the aos stuff it fails pretty horrifically.

>>51565487
The thing is you CAN'T Really give orcs or tau anything to do. The tau were intentionally created to be the representative of all the little insignificant alien empires the galaxy over.
>>51565590
Lost legion primarch's were a mini heresy before the real heresy according to the horus heresy books, but I don't know who canonical those are. Both of them are dead.

>>51564276
New mini looks like he just bit into a dozen limes at once

>>51565636
I'm pretty sure the lost legion primarchs' fates were left intentionally ambiguous.

>>51565695
I'm pretty sure of that too, hence why I added that caveat, I just remember them being pretty explicit about the lost two in the horus heresy books as having been traitors of some sort

>>51554447
God I hate the way every model gets a cartoon paint job these days, it's an ugly enough model as it is.

>>51565611
a classic example of the benefit of limits, objectively his horse evolving into a dragon is a neat idea, but the glut of details blurs the whole concept, I'm rather happy my lizardmen are where they are right now, but future releases I may have to trim or file down, and the Necrons are pushing it for me but not to a degree that makes me hate them

>>51565775
The sad thing is that computer sculpting IS a good thing, it's just being abused.
Gw's sculptors just can't seem to shake the disconnect between cg model and tabletop figure.

>>51565725
>>51565695
But were they left that way for the purpose of "your guys" or was it left that way so they have 2 spare blank primarch and legion spaces they can fill with whatever they want

>>51565809
to a degree its much like any new tech people get with creativity, it gets run into the ground, 3-D glasses, CGI characters, etc. everyone expects it to be the next Talking pictures or Color TV

>>51565859
I bet it started as a Your Guys thing, but now it's got a high chance of just them making up new things because writers want to make their things stick. Sort of like how every new writer for X-Men axes all the not classic characters and makes their own new team who then get axed by the next writer to come along and so on and so forth.

>>51565859
originally they were left vacant for your guys, I know they said as much in an old white dwarf, but they retconned that in the logar heresy book where it's very clear that 2 and 11 were gone pre heresy.
>>51565871
The problem with cg sculpting is that it casts off many of the limits of traditional sculpting while adding it's own limitations. It removes time limits and some of the casting problems and scale concerns of traditional but it also adds a mental disconnect wherein you don't have a physical reference for the final product while you're making it, because you're making a blueprint not a prototype. Some sculptors find this perfect, anyone making any sort of space ship or tank game for example, and the malifaux people seem to be doing really well with it as well, but GW has abused the benefits and neglected the flaw, creating flamboyant busy awful messes a lot of the time.

>>51554816
>slippery slope

But you're right, epic is the least trash thing about 40k as a game. Being completely community supported means we can give a flying fuck what grandma wendy does

>>51565972
I feel like one should make test iterations of the figure when working with that disconnect, that way you can observe your potential in real life product before shipping off with it

>>51566053
They probably do to a certain extent, but you'll never be able to mitigate that to it's full extent.

I think it's also probably true that their is a financial motivation for making big silly models.

>>51566113
Hmm... I feel like you could get a wider pool of customers by doing one of two things, one, make more of the details optional in some way, like make the base model an underlying framework, a bit like the Imperial Knight kit, with multiple outer layer options in varying levels of detail, the other being, just release two versions of the kit with different texture styles or something

>>51566016
>slippery slope mean
I really wish people didn't meme this fucking thing into prominence, no one knows how to use it to point out fallacious reasoning properly

A hyperbolic "what's next" to get across distaste for a trend is not a slippery slope argument.
A slippery slope argument is when someone says 'if event x happens, then event y will happen and event y is bad" WITHOUT explaining why x leads to y

>>51566152
Both of those are economically or visually unwise.
Layers simply don't work because of how the structure of miniatures generally works, the added cost of sculpting detail that won't be seen, the structural limitations ect.

Different flavors of the same model BARELY has lower costs of production than different kits altogether and certainly wouldn't get nearly as many more sales as a full new kit would.

>>51566183
I keep getting reminded of an old artwork I made as a teen, was trying to make a Shinigami because Death note was the coolest thing at the time, I kept adding more and more details to her over a period of weeks until I felt she was ready, and then I realized, I'd never be able to use her in any of my comic plans (that mercifully never stained paper) as she was just held down by too many details

>>51565972
>originally they were left vacant for your guys, I know they said as much in an old white dwarf, but they retconned that in the logar heresy book where it's very clear that 2 and 11 were gone pre-Heresy
This is always a problem with a franchise that goes on long enough that fans become part of those that shape it. Suddenly some kid's headcanon or OC becomes actual canon.

>>51566268
thats one thing I love about Transformers, when that happens Hasbro gives them a new continuity to play with instead, their ideas are allowed to grow and flourish in a new setting with new ideas without risk of ruining the older established works

>>51566339
That would have been nice. We could have even avoided Ward'd Ultramarine wank if GW thought like that.

>>51565233
Yup, I heard it plenty of times in the WHFB threads.

>>51566369

He didn't start that though.

>>51565611
Yeah, GW has decided that they are selling collectors miniatures rather than gamepieces.

>>51566482

it gives them 'justification' for the prices

>>51566429
Well it depends on the sculpt, if there isn't a lot of complex fine detail that's true. There are some sculpts that are functionally the same.

>>51566561
The infantry minis are fine, but the bigger minis started getting too big to take with you in a non cumbersome way around 5-6 years ago.

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>>51566482
That's just so silly though, as a collector you go and buy some attractive scibor miniatures or a kingdom death box, or a forge world kit.
As a modeler or painter you buy kits with lots of nice interchangeable bits for you play with.
As a game lover you buy modest but iconic miniatures who look nice in a bunch or on the table.
Who's buying these kits? Am I missing something?

>>51565611
Pretty clear on that.
I'd add that in addition they seem to have thrown out contraposto, anatomy, restraint, face scupting and good taste

>>51566642
nice, reminds me of the in honour of blanch things they are doing.
the multipart plastic is largely the only thing that i think is really carrying it.
>who is buying it
aside from those who love the kitbash I'd assume it's for casual people who walk in and buy it.
or people who don't want to sort through a bunch of sites

>>51566642
Because GW has that sweet spot where it's detailed, but it's not too detailed to paint. So people don't find it intimidating.

>>51567077
I will give them that, even their cluttered models look paintable

>>51567204
I have heard that some people unironically like Mantic minis above GW's because they are leas intimidating to paint. So I guess that a certain degree of minimalism or mediocrity is a virtue.

>>51567227
ehh, I like a number of mantic minis but the setting never grabbed me

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>>51555488
And you got Hitler dubbs

>>51567227
A large part of the reason I haven't bought kingdom death is that I don't feel I could do the minis justice
Gw stuff isn't "too detailed to paint" it's too detailed to look nice. The sweet spot is simple and elegant so that any level of paint job looks good. it's why space marines are so popular.

>>51567308
Yeah, the fluff is not their strong part. At the same time I think it's good that they are not trying to have an ongoing story and just have it all about you deciding what your dudes should be all about.

I feel that 40k is moving away from that and I don't think it's even worth having my dudes in Age of Sigmar which is a worse fantasy setting than Mantic's generic fantasy setting.

>>51566779
The really big fuck off kits I mean. Who is buying that? I don't know.

>>51567345
Space Marines are also fun to build.

>>51567352
>tfw I like AOS
its been a bit of a slow build but its been growing decently, I do agree that setting needs some more structure but it is forming

>>51567384
I personally don't like it. Mostly because how cheesy and whimsical it is. I need more down to earth, grit and historical inspiration to enjoy a fantasy setting.

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>>51564782
Aperntly the new rule books is going to be cut down. Not a small as AOS but still cut down significantly.

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>>51564591
>it's an arrogant neckbeards think they know the setting better than its authors episode
The thing is the original authors agree that GW don't get it any more. Rick Priestly has said a number of times that GW clearly missed the point on a lot of things.

>>51567384
>>tfw I like AOS
>t; shill

>>51567480
I heard that 30k will basically get to keep the 7'th edition ruleset and get its own ruleset.

>>51567517

Priestly also comes off as having a chip on his shoulder.

>>51567606
I would also be salty if I had to work under Kirby.

>>51567384
The problem is the aesthetic for me, it just feels so noble bright instead of grim dark
>>51567606
You would as well if you worked on something with your friends then a bunch of cunts came around and started mucking it up

>>51565611
>Skeletor starts to go through a awkward phase.png

>>51567676

>You would as well if you worked on something with your friends then a bunch of cunts came around and started mucking it up

Maybe if he saw things he didn't like he should have tried to change them then or talk it over with the fellow designers.

What insights he gives into the creation of 40k are interesting, but when he says blatant obvious shit like Space Marines being living weapons and even stuff like the horus Heresy drawing inspiration from Paradise Lost it sounds like he is too far up his own ass. Last I knew he was working on Beyond the Gates of Antares which not a lot of people apparently care about.

>>51567771
>Maybe if he saw things he didn't like he should have tried to change them then or talk it over with the fellow designers.
With whom? Corporative managers and talantless hacks like Ward?

>>51565953
>>51565972
They've also said that it was just a reference to decimation (before the IW got that) and not space for Your Primarchs.

>>51566464
He did shift it into overdrive, with implying that Jag really only ever wanted to be Ultra. He took what was the peak we'd backed down from, and made it a plateau.

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>>51567676
Cunts like Jervis Johnson, Alan Merrett, and Rick Priestley.

>>51560147
That really does not change. Robutt is not the Emperor. What he pulled off immediately following the end of the Horus Heresy was only possible because the Imperium was relatively still stable and along the path of what the Emperor envisioned.

All this really does is open up the possibility for more infighting among the Imperium, and perhaps some incremental advancements technologically.

It gives them the advantage to add new things, but the overall tone and "1 minute to midnight" does not change.

Unless they pull another Age of Shitmar.

>>51567606
>>51567676
Yeah, but I feel like the chip has more to do with them wrecking up his big hit than anything else.

>>51567771
>Maybe if he saw things he didn't like he should have tried to change them then or talk it over with the fellow designers.
The way he talks about it, I think that the new environment making this not an effective option was a big part of the problem.

>
What insights he gives into the creation of 40k are interesting, but when he says blatant obvious shit like Space Marines being living weapons and even stuff like the horus Heresy drawing inspiration from Paradise Lost it sounds like he is too far up his own ass.
Well, you say obvious, a lot of people still miss it. Including a lot of people writing the books now.

>>51567907
????
Not sure what you're trying to say here?

>>51567676
I play both settings, because too much of one flavor would get boring

>>51556580
I could believe this, in path of the archon, we learn commoragh isn't the only place the eldar created in the webway, just the biggest, most populated, and most stable

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>>51567957
Nu-GW writers missing the point behind Space Marines and making them unironically heroic, missing the implication that the Emperor might actually be dead for real (his corpse's unconscious direction of the Astronomican being all that's left of him), and so on.

>>51566482
And the funniest thing about that is that they won't drop the game rules part for these things even when they shit things up.

For example, flyers do not belong in 40k. They just do not fit the scale of the game. They could include them in Epic if they still made that. It's not even that they can't or shouldn't make those kind of models. I think the Valkyrie kit is cool, but it does not belong in the game. But if they don't pretend it's for the game, they have to acknowledge that there's a shitload of model kit manufacturers out there and a Valkyrie kit would have to compete for value with something like 1/48 scale aircraft.

>>51568283
basically the issue being the writers taking the setting at face value when at the time it was written it was stuffed with Irony,

>>51568339
a pity they don't have a game specifically for fliers, could play them side by side like how you could with BFG and Epic

>>51568516
>a game specifically for fliers
>BFG
I have bad news for you anon.

>>51567384
The setting is inherently fucked because they made their "heroes" unironic, unrelatable, inhuman, faceless robots. They tried to recreate space marines but totally missed the point that even space marines are still imperfect and human. AoS is what you get when someone who doesn't understand how 40k was based in satire and inspired by stuff like 2000AD takes everything at face value and tries to recreate it.

>>51568516
>a game specifically for fliers
Isn't that Aeronautica Imperialis?

>>51567907
I like that slightly thinner looking rowboat drawing compared to the hulksters we get in the models, particularly the legs which I just can't take seriously otherwise

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>>51568589
>Aeronautica Imperialis
Executed in the name of Galactic Empire.

>>51568556
I'd try to correct but that would involve alot of stuff that would wet off arguments on the validity of what my sources are or the lack of interest in learning or whatever, so I won't bother

>>51554447
This is the first time I've seen Guilliman's new model and damn is it ugly. Forge World's version was a near-perfect blend of larger-than-life warrior, Space Marine, and statesman with a sprinkling of ancient Rome but this is just a lumpy mess. And why are all of the golden details curving inwards like some sort of Tzeentchian thing?

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>>51572300
They were trying to recreate Emperor's armor decorations, like how he has his father sword already and the laurel crown.

>>51560739
Fuck off are you some trump bot who only gets his news from 4chan? Or some oil worker who was busy getting dicks shoved up his arse near Dakota in a man camp with no Internet?

>>51568283
This is the problem so many grognards don't realise. It's not the old guards setting anymore. They've all moved on to other things. It's not the same game or setting it was orginally and people need to realise this or move on. Things cannot stagnate forever.

>>51573032
Up until now they've been content to keep the setting essentially the same. Quality of writing has gone down, but the overall ideas were there. The IP is GW's biggest asset. Fucking that up means they've lost their biggest asset for a gamble that the new setting is going to be worth more (which with the current team is un-fucking-likely, since they're garbage and are losing touch with the tone which was one of the more unique things it has as a SF setting).

>>51573032
>Things cannot stagnate forever, everything should be turned into 8+ Hasbro-like shit
Nice logic shill.

>>51572870
Did someone elect the wrong president in your country or something?

>>51573032
I don't really have a lot of attachment left for the old 40k. It had its day in the sun. However, I think what they are doing with nu-40k is just lame. They are turning it into a soap opera for neckbeards with a bunch of cheap thrills that's impressive for kids. It's basically becoming full on capeshit.

>>51573180
Worse, both the elects were shit and his country still managed to vote in the greater evil.

>>51573032
No, it's okay, I moved on to DH and other RPGs that actually keep the original flavor of the setting alive.

>>51560754
Vulkan's not dead, just missing. And 40k's like fucking comic books when it comes to people who are "missing."

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>Trazyn appeared with a Tesseract Labyrinth that disgorged a large number of lost Imperial forces collected over the millennium including Inquisitor Greyfax and her retinue, Horus Heresy-era Ultramarines, Vostroyans, Tanith Imperial Guard, and Salamanders

>I'm certainly not complaining

I am. 40k has a background. It shouldn't have a plot.

>>51554985
>Kinda ruins the whole "your dudes" thing, doesn't it?

No.

>Hard to feel like your personal/favourite marine chapter is of much important now that the Ultramarines get their own super marine god.

How? Did you feel Captains were unimportant because Chapter Masters were a thing?
Are Guardsmen unimportant because Marines are a thing?

A single powerful character does not invalidate every less powerful character.

>>51573693
>And 40k's like fucking comic books when it comes to people who are "missing."
He's stayed missing for a while. All the "missing" primarchs stayed that way up until this Gathering Storm.

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>>51568497
>>51573032
Perhaps I was being too opaque. That was meant to be an attempt to juxtapose that sentiment with what the old guard actually wrote.

Expanding on the Marine example, in an effort to be clearer: compare the original description of Space Marines here to the 2nd edition stuff (or possibly even late 1st, but the edition jump makes for an easy cutoff point). Much of it remains largely unchanged even now, yet there's a noticeably different tone in this compared to later material. And that later material was written still in the early/'good old' days, by the same people who were there at the start.

>>51568755
I assume it's just a generic Ultramarine. Most of the Primarchs didn't have any proper visual representation for a long time. Not sure Robert got anything at all until that Adrian Smith card art where he looks like a goddamn zombie.

>>51573869
What about the players who played Cadians? Or Templar?

>>51573918
What about them?

>>51573918
>Cadians?
Still exist, in vast numbers.

>Templar?
Unless I've misremembered, there's only one crusade present in FoC. That's why Grimaldus and Helbrect ain't there.

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>>51573609
>greater evil
But they elected Trump iirc.

>>51573974
And two weeks in he's already threatened Mexico with war. Hillary might have bent America over and fucked it in the ass with a foot-long strap-on if she had been elected, but Trump's going to get the place gangraped.

What happens when a Tyranid eats an eternal? What if it is a Primarch?

>>51573970
>Still exist, in vast numbers
Sure. Minus a planet. Plus 2mil is hardly vasy numbers for the guard. (Yes, I'm aware of how dumb that number was, but it's canon now.)

>Unless I've misremembered, there's only one crusade present in FoC. That's why Grimaldus and Helbrect ain't there.
I was more thinking that the your guys who never worked with witches, etc. have been retroactively changed to. I know you can just ignore canon (and I do), but switching up the canon doesn't help "your dudes".

>>51573994
>threatened Mexico with war
So what? Mexico depends on America, they can do whatever the fuck they want with it.

>>51574006
>Sure. Minus a planet.

If only space ships and other habitable worlds were a thing.

>Plus 2mil is hardly vasy numbers for the guard.

90% of Cadians leave Cadia. Two million Cadians escaping Cadia is not all the Cadians that are left, and even if it was two million is a more than sufficient breeding population.

>I was more thinking that the your guys who never worked with witches, etc. have been retroactively changed to.

One Crusade has.

>but switching up the canon doesn't help "your dudes".

Nor does it hurt it. If you play any official chapter then it's not really your dudes, it's GW's dudes.

>>51574070
And that attitude is what is going to get your country gangraped.

>>51574093
>A-a grand army of the light will r-rise up and cast down Donald Drumpf's d-dark America!

Oh, liberals.

>>51574121
Oh, I don't militarily gangraped. I mean economically gangraped.

>>51555777

Honestly, St Celestine could stall most primarchs for the entire game. Eternal Warrior + huge wounds + respawning wound buddies + 1/game full heal. She takes way too god damn much killing to actually finish her off.

>>51574073
It's unlikely that a culture won't be affected and changed by being minus a planet. Especially given that the culture was largely built around defending that planet.

I thought the book outright stated that the 2mil was it, ignoring the prior canon that 90% was offworld. I guess I'll have to read it again, more carefully.

You're right about it being only one Crusade though. I guess there'd be some amount of drift if they're not often in touch.

That said, I think even canon chapters can be your dudes a bit. You get attached to the lore, fill in the gaps, perhaps set it before or shortly after the current crop of named characters. One guy buying the farm and, a few promotions is one thing. A change to their fundamentals is another.

>>51574093
>the alliance of poor contries will fight evil 'murica
They can't even afford a military, what makes you think that they can afford a war with the strongest country in the world?

>>51574132
>economically
>implying the world doesn't depend on America's economical wellbeing

>>51574179
>It's unlikely that a culture won't be affected and changed by being minus a planet. Especially given that the culture was largely built around defending that planet.

Cadians did not have much in the way of a culture. Their culture was essentially just military, and that doesn't need to change as long as they have a military base to be stationed on.
How much you want their culture to change or not change is up to you.

>That said, I think even canon chapters can be your dudes a bit.

A little, but you have to accept the buy in that GW is free to write about them, they are not yours alone.

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>>51555507
Kek, angelman barely managed to win over some third rate bloodthirster (a large bloodletter really), while Lorgar made Khorne's top general his bitch in single combat.

Most successful primarch, or most successful primarch?

>>51574404
to be fair, lorgar is the bestest only in fever dreams generated by Chaos. irl he always gets his ass whooped. Corax nearly kills him on Isstvan despite being on the receiving end of the biggest ambush in warhammer history and lorgar ends of needing Curze to bail him out.
>b-but he hadn't fully developed his powers yet! now with his mastery of chaos sorcery he can kick all their asses
well no because then during the Shadow Crusade, after he has worked the Ruinstorm and other acts of major Chaos magic he runs into Spiritual Liege and STILL gets btfo until Angron has to jump in to save him.

This is well after Lorgar has a vision in which he easily kills Guilliman in a duel. I think its pretty fair to say the Chaos Gods are trolling Lorgar and sending daemons to job against him is part of that.

>>51573869
>A single powerful character does not invalidate every less powerful character.
It does, especially now.

>>51574073
>Nor does it hurt it. If you play any official chapter then it's not really your dudes, it's GW's dudes.
Hi shill.

>>51574237
>They can't even afford a military, what makes you think that they can afford a war with the strongest country in the world?
I thinks strongest economy in the world will be glad to help with it.

>>51574562
You're expecting consistency in GW fluff, especialy with BL involved?

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>>51574132
>>51574093
Excuse me, sir. I thought this was 40k thread and not a fantasy.

>>51574629
How so?

>>51574722
Fuck off, you meme-forcing piece of shit.

40k is officially becoming an uncool setting.

>>51574668
well if you assume the Chaos Gods are lying to Lorgar to its consistent.

>>51557260
Phoenix Lords are like Apocalypse, they get stronger each time they die, the idea is that they'll be really strong when the final battle comes.

Also you can pretty much keeo throwing Phoenix Lords at a problem as long as you can find and repair the armour. Normally it takes hundreds if not thousands of years to go a couple of wounds and WS, Eldar can do it in very little time through becoming Phoenix Lords.

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>>51574404

>>51575105
>Phoenix Lords are like Apocalypse, they get stronger each time they die
That's why in 41 millenium they usually gets killed by regular marines?

>>51575105
This simply isn't true. Phoenix Lords have been around longer than the Primarchs and still not a single one has even gained more than WS7

One Primarch could literally kill all the Phoenix Lords. Phoenix Lords die constantly to shit like grenades and mooks, I don't think there's ever even been a Phoenix Lord who won a fight against a Marine. Marneus is superior to the Phoenix Lords, a Primarch is no contest.

>>51553609
>Doesn't the whole returning of primarchs thing go completely against the underlining theme of stagnancy and decay within the 40k universe?
That theme will change with Age of the Emperor. Look how WHFB was just early modern German dudes, with AoS changing that to shiny super humans.

>>51577738
Press F to pay respect

My take is that 40K, as an IP setting, as taken stagnation well past the point of stability, and has been outright rotting for the bast 20 or so years. Fundamentally, the very idea of setting stagnation runs counter to the corporate drive for constant growth. And we all know which side Kirby (and his equally degenerate successors) will support.

Personally, I hate the whole "nothing anybody does matters" nihilist concept. It's just depressing, and ultimately pushes far more people away than it attracts. The vocal minority may appreciate the "one minute to midnight" feeling, but the rest of us simply can't get over the constant disappointment that the irrelevance gives us.

>>51579533
My personal take is that I actually don't mind a bit more optimism. I think the primary fault of the setting and narrative lie in focussing too much on a single faction and making almost everyone else in the story look either incompetent or irrelevant by comparison. I wish they would fix that.

>>51574652
>mexico
>strongest economy

>>51579696
But what can they do? It's a hard truth that the Imperium and Chaos are simply so big that they simply bury the other factions via their shear mass. The Eldar only sneak by via their "ancient wisdom" and narrative inertia.

The Tau have always been a trivial power with delusions of grandeur, and the Orks can't unify without becoming another setting destroying threat (ie the Krork). The Newcrons still have the lingering discontent of their rebout to deal with.

And then there's the Nids.

>>51554447
Someone with skillz has to photoshop him with "make Imperium great again" hat.

>>51574772
t. memesperging frogfucker
>muh drumpf maymay
>muh china isn't a useless pile of shit thats about to collapse on itself as soon as anyone looks at it funny maymay
>Muh liberals are always right because the TV and celebrities that have no place in politics told me so maymay
you disgust me.

>>51579904
Not really. It'd be easy for them to make the narrative more equal for all other factions.

Just look at Fantasy. In Fantasy they constructed it so even the weaker factions still had significant victories at time. The scope of 40k would make it actually easier to give all the factions more victories as more can be lost without dooming a faction.

>>51576493

>I don't think there'sever even been a Phoenix Lord who won a fight against a Marine.


Holy shit you are retarded.

>>51555248
Same thing that happened to all the people who had a Slaanesh army in Warhammer Fantasy.

>>51580324
The problem is that 40K is too far out of balance for that to actually happen without a setting reboot. And we've all seen how GW would manage that.

1st Edition, the original Rogue Trader, was intended as a diversion from the what was then the main Warhammer universe. Things spiraled out of control swiftly, and the narrative never truly caught up with it. The people that made in the first place eventually left, leaving us with a long string of hack writers with only a few stand outs.

Isn't it just girlyman coming back, why are people saying primarchs plural?

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>>51553636
The problem is you get a lot of kiddies in here lately because of DoW2 and Space Marine vidya. They don't have the patience to appreciate a galactic setting or use their imagination to reach across the stars on all the things that can be happening on a million different worlds at the same time. They'd rather just sit back and let GW lead them along a simple, narrow narrative than fully explore this universe with their own mind. Sad really.

>>51565190
Most current GW plastics are excellently detailed

>>51582389
It still isn't close to the level of fine detailes you get from a resin mold.

>people getting mad because toy company adds another chapter to the story made up to sell toys
How can anyone be so autistic? Old fluff isn't going anywhere, you can still read it. You can read it if you don't like new fluff. It's SW EU all over agin.

>>51582633
Nah, this is the Star Wars prequels all over again, but it's happening to 40k.

>>51553609
who cares? this will be a prime march.

>>51555248
>What will now happen with all the people having a slaanesh army?
They will get mad and then either:
A. Quit (GW already has your money, so they won't mind too much)
B. Switch armies (More money for GW)
C. Still field their existing army for as long as the rules/stores allow, then either A or B.

>>51582672
As far as I am concerned this is the best 40k has been in years. Cool releases. I mean.. Admech, GSCs, New Thousand Sons, Triumvirates of some mostly cool character models or that Traitor legions book which made CSM fun to play and introduced well-balanced reasonable formation isntead of overpowered bullshit.

I actually started buying stuff from GW again.

>>51555209
>It also gets rid of Slaanesh.
and there i was yesterday.
thinking i could start a slaanesh army :-D

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>>51580324
>so even the weaker factions still had significant victories at time
>The scope of 40k would make it actually easier to give all the factions more victories as more can be lost without dooming a faction.

What, like the Tau.

>>51581838
If they're bringing one back, they're obviously going to bring back the rest. For better or worse.

Plus, on the traitor side, the return of the Daemon Primarchs has been hinted at for years; we've only just started to see the fruits of it with Magnus.

>>51582912
I mean in terms of fluff and narrative.

>>51582987
Yea, thats a little worse. But as long as they don't explode the universe. I'm okay.

>>51555433
Yeah, this doesn't create new options for story, it shrinks them.
Way too close to the whole 'forcing Wood, Dark, and High into one faction' bullshit of The Dead Game.

>>51562749
Shh!
40k players are incapable of realizing the nature of the game they play.
It's kinda why the game's such a fucking mess.

>>51557079
Rules that don't exist anymore. But I guess autists can't grasp the concept of jokes.

>>51583964
Maybe they should have been telling good jokes instead then?

>>51564012

Ehm... of course boyo. There's no regular protagonists, like the dude from city of secrets, the mortals from disciples of tzeentch... oh wait.

>>51584006
Literally who the characters.

>>51568556
TL:DR You didn't Stormcasts' lore at all (and I say this as a ghoul player).

>>51567676

And you're wrong.

Picture an army of thousands. Despossessed of everything they had in their life, their souls torn apart from the eternal respite that is death only to be hurled again into the horrors of war. Imagine them spending their lifetimes honing the art of war, even though many of them hadn't been trained for it in life, nor wanted to. All because the say-so of a god.

Now imagine this thousands fighting against unnamable horrors when a god awakes. The horros take him under their wing and your god, in his wrath, makes the sky spit his wrath. The land is ravaged, scorched, as your forces are caught between the abomination, the awakening god, and the storms your deity is throwing down. Imagine now how hundreds of priests, devoted to the raging deity, pray desperately for salvation, to avoid the thunder. Now see how the storm hits them, annhilating the followers and setting them astray, to be forever lost without the right of fighting again or even resting in peace, for their souls, as their new bodies, have been riven. All because the wrath of a god they prayed to, and thought that would protect them.

This happens too often in age of sigmar.

>>51573869
Good points anon