Is 40K kill?

>>51550152
*like they did Warhammer with AOS. Yes I am incapable of coherent speech.

>>51550152
Well, people are scared of the "End Times" being upon us because of:
>Cadia falling
>Fenris burning and Prospero being remade
>Ynnead returning
>Roboute Guilliman returning
>rumor of Abaddon being killed by Cypher on Terra soon

"End Times" haven't been declared by GW (yet) and nothing in the setting has been fucked up like AOS, but people are worried.

Cadia is kill and anime is leaking in.

The game's been beyond help for a few editions now, it's about fucking time.

>>51550216
I'm now terrified. End times started fairly innocuous too then boom have a skirmish game which admittedly to this poor /k/ommando isn't all that bad but the setting itself is pure mountain dew shit.

Maybe this is what getting old is like? All the good stuff goes and the new stuff is lame.

>>51550152

The sales department now runs game development at GW. They're clearly building up to an End Times type scenario, after which they can replace everything in 40k with more family-friendly versions that use easily copywritable names.

>>51550152
They're advancing the setting, but the consensus from both leakers and official sources is that we're not getting "Age of the Emperor"

It's going from 2 minutes to midnight to 1 minute to, and momentous events are happening, but it's not the end

That said, some shit is going down:
Today, Bobby G, primarch of the Ultramarines, was seen on the front and inside of March WD - he, at least, is back from his stasis tomb and apparently not dying (his knees look suspiciously robotic)

The Eldar seem to think they can get their Slannesh-killing death-god out without ALL of them dying, so that's created a merger faction of eldar who want to go back to the Empire days, though they have opposition from Craftworlds and Commoragh alike

Cadia got smacked by the 13th Crusade, for realsies this time, and Saint Celestine came back. Tazryn let out an old inquisitor from his private collection, and told an admech dude a trick or two invilving Cadia's pylons.
This was a bad move, as they've exploded now

>>51550347
This sounds pretty dreadful.

>>51550276
Play non GW games. They're literally all better. GW is mass-market trash.

>>51550398
Rules wise sure. However I genuinely like the bombastic silliness of 40K. Sorry I know that craft beer brewed only by beavers wearing lumberjack shirts who only listen to music so underground it is made only by moles is probably gonna taste better but sometimes mainstream is mainstream for a reason.

>>51550449
>However I genuinely like the bombastic silliness of 40K.

I used to, but the writers increasingly take it all too seriously. 40k started to lose it's fun some time shortly before the start of the decade, and has only gone downhill from there.

>sometimes mainstream is mainstream for a reason.

Yeah - because it's something marginally satisfying that is gulped down by plebs to the exclusion of anything else because it has the social prestige of being popular and because they're too lazy to look for something better.

>>51550610
Can I politely suggest we agree to disagree before we start an autistic screeching match?

>>51550660

You can suck my dick and then kill yourself, faggot. :^)))))

>>51550680
I'll take that as a yes.

>>51550152
>I heard today that GW has decided to kill 40K like they did AOS. Is this true?
Probably not, and the rumors aren't pointing that way either.

President For Life Guilliman is coming back to reinforce the status quo. I do expect whatever 8th edition is to shake things up a little, but it's still going to be space marines shooting space aliens.

>>51550217
The Tau managed to get to the other side of the galaxy?

>>51550347
>Tazryn told an admech dude a trick or two invilving Cadia's pylons.
>This was a bad move, as they've exploded now
Weren't the pylons the things that made the Cadian gate exist? I thought they calmed the warp and created the safest path of travel from the Eye. If they're gone, wouldn't that remove all significance Cadia had to Chaos?

>>51550835
>If they're gone, wouldn't that remove all significance Cadia had to Chaos?
Ah, I missed a line in my explanation.

They exploded, and, with the help of a chaos fleet and a blackstone fortress, so did Cadia.

Everyone important got off, but Cadia itself is debris - the Pylons being worked pushed the Eye/gate back a bit, but now there's nothing to stop it expanding again (though the region won't be the pylon-stabilised space-highway into the middle of the imperium any more

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>>51550769
No anon not that kind of anime, this kind of anime

>>51554854
I cannot not be disgusted whenever I see that abomination.

>>51550152
That cat has a nice MAS 36.

>>51554854

The new Fulgrim model looks damn good if you ask me

>>51550769
>eldar players
>calling tau anime

>>51558713
GW literally said in a WD interview the Tau exist to cash in on the early 2000s anime craze. They're tailor made for weebs.

>>51558110
Is it a coincedence that Ynnead and Fulgrim look alike, or is this GW's unusually subtle way of telling us Ynnead is corrupted by Slaanesh?

>>51550888

Cadia didn't explode and is safe in the warp with a thriving population of daemons

Why are there no new IG models if CADIA fell?

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>>51550216
>Fenris burning and Prospero being remade
Good end

>>51550449
Have a (you). That was the most convoluted and dumb point I've read today

>>51559066
There was no early 2000s anime craze.

Anime didn't get big until the 2010's.

>>51550152
>Please fa/tg/uys tell me if GW is going to ruin my favourite and second favourite settings?
They won't ruin it. It will be glorious death in flames unlike ignoble death that GW gave to WHFB.

>>51550744
Newfag here, is 8th edition all but confirmed for being released this year? Don't wanna buy a codex if an update is imminent.

>>51559737
sort of yes and if the codices remain useable is an open question.

The fact that no codex update has happened for quite some time, might mean they won't

>>51550216
>"End Times" haven't been declared by GW (yet)
In the discripton of Gathering Strom: Fracture of Bien-Tan they are talking about "the Time of Ending" That sounds like End Times doesn't it?

>>51554854
Where's the actual model? The whole thing just seems swallowed up by the blob swirling around it. Though I'll admit, the effect of those ground tiles being picked up into it along the base looks pretty cool.

>>51559951
That sound like they trademarked End Times and don't want them to be confused

>>51559951
>In the discripton of Gathering Strom: Fracture of Bien-Tan they are talking about "the Time of Ending"

Oh fuck didn't know that last bit.

God damn it, GW.

>>51559848
Stellar. Thanks.

>>51560145
"the time of ending" has been referenced continuously since 5th edition

the specifically mention guilliman now has to fight "the war to end all wars" and that it will take "many mortal lifetimes" to finish

>>51561039
>guilliman now has to fight "the war to end all wars"
... Austria invaded Serbia?

>>51559529

Nah, 2000 in the UK is about right. That was about the point where places like HMV would sell 4 episode DVD's for £20-£30 and students would just lap that shit up.
Borders started having a Manga section about then as well. Things like Guyver, Parasyte and Ranma, stuff like that.

Man, I wasted my Student Loan on some seriously frivolous shit.

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>>51550152
Eldar are kill at least.
Commoragh has gone kabloom, and Craftworlds are fucked. The only Eldar faction with any plot relevance anymore are the "Ynnari" a bunch of Ynnead worshipping, Eldar killing cocksuckers that fucked their own race over and proceeded to resurrect Robutt Girlyman.

It's ogre for the Eldar.

>>51550152
No. Kindly fuck off.

>>51561872
Literally the opposite. For the first time in forever the Eldar aren't doomed to simply dwindle and die.

>>51562340
No, instead they are doomed to be killed by their own god of death and merged into some faggy "ynnari" faction.

Fuck this gay as shit.
CWE and DE are kill.
Only Ynnari remain, a bunch of tranny god worshipping prancing homosexual la-la men that kill their own kin to feed their god.

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I certainly hope so. It'd end the stale shit we've been forced to endure for who knows how long.

>>51562456
Is... is pic somehow related or...?

>>51561190
Yes, space austria and space serbia though.

The thing that has me wondering is how would Guilliman react to the fact the Empire is now basically a theocracy crumbling apart. Are they going to gloss over that or go somewhere with it?

>>51559198

>The Avatar is the mirror of Slaanesh - they are siblings. His power comes from Eldar souls - hence he looks quite Slaaneshi. They are made of the same stuff.

>>51559529

False.

>>51564543
>The Avatar is the mirror of Slaanesh - they are siblings. His power comes from Eldar souls - hence he looks quite Slaaneshi. They are made of the same stuff.

Oh.
OH.
Ohhhhhhhh.
Okay then.

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>>51550276
>Maybe this is what getting old is like?

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>>51566343
I'm not even 20 yet

What's happening is VERY similar to warhammer End Times. Advancing setting, important things getting smashed, important lore characters who have no business in a game the scale of a 2000 some odd point game of 40k getting the Nagash treatment,the works.
It's not clear if it's anudduh shA-O-Sa yet, but it's pretty spooky stuff.

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>>51566460
Hello, fellow young-yet-somehow-already-old human.

>>51566541
Don't forget that the different elf factions have been smashed together as well, lore and long established design conventions be damned. All we're missing now is it turning out that Vect was the one true lord of the Eldar. That, or Ahra is actually the real leader of the Phoenix Lords. Some sort of Phoenix King, one might say.

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>>51566742
>political trends of people your age seem to lose the plot entirely
>art style and tone of your favorite settings is getting awful
>new video games seem soulless compared to older games
>Actually fucking everything does
>everything people my age like is awful
>unironically considering working to make my own table top game to satisfy the void I feel

HOW DID THIS HAAAPPEN TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

To an extent. If you are /k/ you are better off playing Infinity or Flames of War at this point.

>>51559529
weaboo was coined in 2005, wapanese in 2002

>>51559529
lcs and hobby shops were full of manga in the 2000's

>>51562456
The thing is, when the old stuff starts to lose it's charm you don't scrap it and reinvent it hoping to keep your fanbase and grow, you make something all together new.

When you're an industry giant you can do that, see overwatch.

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>>51566460
>>51566742
>>51566820
>25 years old
>Why do I feel like I'm 55 years old?

>>51566820
You sound heavily depressed. Consider therapy (I'm serious)

>>51566917
I think there is this age group who remembers the time and started to like things before the internet assumed full control, and now as basically all media has shifted in tone to some degree because of it we feel as if we got old way too fast

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>>51566930
Liking dwarf fortress and obscure shit table top games and thinking people your age are idiots doesn't make you depressed

That said I am depressed

>>51566820
I have no idea if you're >>51566460, but, HOLY SHIT YES.

Sometimes I feel like I was born into the wrong generation. What makes it worse (at least as a chick) is that people automatically assume you're either part of that group, or some weird anti-social ultra-alt-right conservative (nothing against regular conservatives though) that is completely apathetic to everyone else. I get called a "bitch" for not being a libtard way too much. Ugh. Maybe it's where I live?

Gotta purge me some damn fucking heretics up in here.

>unironically considering working to make my own table top game to satisfy the void I feel

I'd be down for that if you ever actually made it.

>>51567000
We live in interesting times.

The decadant rot of Leftism has finally hit the point of critical mass. An entire generation has grown up, told that their history is one of shame and crime, that anyone who doesn't agree with that is irredeemibly evil, and that thus they are on the right side of history.

What we are seeing, is an ancient cycle. The death of an empire, from the internal rot and the ancient enemies of civilization.


We also live in a period of harsh and swift change, the like of which is unprecedented. Though tribal lines remain, we can communicate world wide in near real time.
This has reinforced many echo chambers, but also allowed truth to slip the reigns of those in power. The effect of this, is yet to be seen truly...

If there are historians in the future, ours will be a time that fills many a book. Doesn't make it easier to live through.

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>>51567000
I think that's a consequence of the hyper politicization of the current time period. People who aren't massively convinced by either extreme end up fucked.
I think the internet has made people so able to immerse themselves in echo chambers that everyone has no fucking clue how to behave when they actually encounter the opposition in a setting other than hearing their favorite talking head talk shit about them.

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>>51567149
>>51567189
I wonder if this hyper politicization is what makes us yearn for the good old days we never lived in. We live in a time and place where we're being pulled in two extreme directions at once, so we find a relative peace in the "middle" ground. It just so happens that we reach it by looking to history and keeping an open and inquisitve mind on matters.

I don't know about you, but I've always been a "mature" person, even as a child (I mean, I was obviously a stupid little kid, but I think you know what I mean). I'm fascinated by history and psychology, and seeing everything happen these days is like watching a horrible train wreck - I see the problem very clearly, but there's nothing I could do to stop it. After all, when you're an ADULT, why listen to this random teenager?

I hate it, because part of their thinking is good - I'm 19, my world experience is non-existant and I live in a time and place that's made me soft through lack of adversity. But does really mean my opinion is worthless, or that I can never be right until I'm older? I've struggled with this a lot, because EVERY teenager thinks they're the smartest person on the planet - why would *I*, realistically, be any different?

In a way, I feel like Donald Trump being elected is a major turning point. He's forcibly pushing the political pendulum the other way; what effect this has, exactly, has yet to be seen, but any change of pace from the stagnant idiocy of the regressive left is a welcome relief, in my opinion.

I live an hour away from Portland, and living in the bluest of blue states is killing me.

>>51567368
I feel that shit even here in Texes.
I'm just trying to ignore the political awfulness and focus my energy on improving my art and sculpting. I want to go full scibor/mom minatures mode.

>>51567149
>The decadant rot of Leftism

So dramatic, im swooning.

>>51567530
That sounds like a good idea, actually! If I was better at those things, I'd probably be doing the same. I like writing, though, I think I might get back into that pretty soon. Good luck on all your work!

>>51559529
>no anime craze in the 2000s
>DBZ subs go full Funi and revitalize the series
>YuGiOh happens
>Naruto happens
>Manga starts being sold en masse to the point Shonen Jump sells monthly collected magazines stateside
>4CHAN COMES INTO BEING

...yeah uh...you're wrong and dumb.

>>51567917
rekt

>>51567000
>>51567149
>>51567368
Will the Goons please stay in their fucking hole?

>>51568176
>Goons
Explain please.

>>51568176
>goons
>political
They're way less so than 4chan. It's more likely local folks.

Also,
>goons
>relevant in the year 2017

>>51568276
>people I don't like are talking and instead of disagreeing with them I'm just going to reeeee
That's it basically.

>>51568287
>implying that anon even know's what a goon is and isn't using it as a generic insult
jej

>>51568312
HEEEEEY YOOOOOOU GUUUUUUUUUUYS

>>51559951

We don't say *nd t*m*s anymore. The politically correct term is "Time of Ending".

>>51550276
Look on the bright side. God-Emperor model for 30k is confirmed incoming.

>>51567000
>>51566820
Young anons, I am you but 10 years older, and I have spent approximately 15,000 hours making the setting.

>>51567368
It doesn't change when you're older. Right now you're just some 19 year old. Ten years from now you'll just be some 29 year old who disagree with the majority of your peers. And they'll scream at you or disown you- not because you sided with their enemy- but because you weren't pure enough in their crusade.

California has like 100% of state congress as blue now anon. I doubt Oregon is the bluest. Even so, my experiences in New Jersey were not kind. But moving to rural Missouri has given me much peace. The only news I watch is local, and its always kind and folksy and mostly apolitical.

>>51567530
This anon has the right idea. Turning off the news has significantly improved my life. That's likely only to work if you can cut clean from the social circles that can't shut up about it (facebook and the like for me) and find a nice community to live and work in that isn't directly affected by all this craziness. Which, unfortunately, is easier said than done.

>>51567149
I will say that its a bit vain to think we're particularly interesting historically. I think we are about as interesting as the 1890s, when everyone was tense and increasingly nationalist but nobody could quite figure out why or what to do about it. It was the 1910's that historians study. But what do you honestly remember from the turn of the 20th century? Not much I imagine.


All I can say is that you should do your best to keep a level head. Don't let these idiots turn you into a vitriolic reactionary. Don't let people who call you their enemy define your political identity. Hell, try not to have a political "identity" at all because that's divisive partisan horseshit.

But I'm afraid we all know its much too late to stop partisanship from dismantling this empire eventually

>>51568564
>Don't let people who call you their enemy define your political identity. Hell, try not to have a political "identity" at all because that's divisive partisan horseshit.

Actually, my father and I have joked about how I'm "partyfluid" because I can really change from one "side" to the other over night. I think what you're saying here is good. I've always thought labels were unrealistic, they establish lines in the sand that don't have to be there, and let people judge one another based on a pre-concieved notion. A pre-concieved notion which could be completely different from the reality of that person's opinion.

I honestly think - though this may be very extreme and/or retarded - that we should just completely do away with political parties. If no one has a label they can abuse when running a campaign, and voters can't just check the box of whichever party they belong to, it would enourage more thoughtful and reason-based elections. Voters who don't care enough to do their research on some one running for an office probably shouldn't be voting in the first place.

I think that's the issue with democracy, really - if everyone's vote counts just as much as everyone else's, then you have the "unwashed masses" having a larger impact than the more involved or more intelligent individuals. That's not to say democracy should be dismantled, I believe in people's right to vote and all that. I just think it should it be set up in a way that encourages (and rewards) intellectual thought and debate, rather than virtue-signalling and party warfare.

>>51559529
You have to be over 18 to post here.

>>51566873
Overwatch is a once-in-a-lifetime thing.
Nobody does anything like that. Ever.
Almost always, they do what was previously said - scrap it and reinvent it hoping to keep the fanbase and grow a new one.
Inevitably that doesn't work.
Either:
1)It's so close to the old, that most of the old fanbase shrugs and carries on with it, but nobody new comes in. It's a 'reboot' that isn't a reboot, but everyone winks and nods, and the jackass from marketing thinks he accomplished something. If anything, a sales hit for two months while oldies grumble about one or two pointless changes.
2)All the old fans HATE it, but, on the other hand, they actually manage to pull in new people. Cue lots of skub, of course, but other than generating a lot of buzz, there's not necessarily an increase in sales. The status remains quo, and long-term, the company loses respect and goodwill.
3)They go and fuck it up, creating something that nobody new likes, and old fans can't stand either. Of course, marketing will continue to declare victory long after the defeat.
(Note that, because the corporation involved will pretend that 3 is 2, and alienated fans will pretend that 2 is 3, it's damn near impossible to tell which happened for a long time.)
Overwatch is the first time I can think of when a big company with a big IP said 'screw it' and made something new.

>>51568287
>This website
>relevant in the year 2017
We're all fighting last decade's battles, anon.

>>51568900
/pol/ was very relevant in the US election, which is relevant to the world. They sort of ended up getting played by the people they wanted to patsy, but they still had a substantial effect.

>>51568763
The founders warned that partisanship and two-party politics would open the door for a powermongering demagogue. Washington, Jefferson and the like abhorred the notion of party politics.

You have Andrew Motherfucker Jackson to thank for that. Founded what is effectively the democratic party on a platform of handouts to poor white men. That became the party of the confederacy, and stayed that way even well into FDR's New Deal (which founded social security, among other things). It wasn't until LBJ signed the civil rights act that all southern whites abandoned the party, and the democratic party had to capitalize hard as the party that stood up for minorities at the cost of political suicide. It worked. Now it represents itself as a party that defends and speaks all minorities- not just ethnic or racial but also identity politics of all kinds- as well as supposedly still having a legacy of labor (which in reality it abandoned as it embraced globalism and free trade, which rendered domestic labor protections moot since companies just moved overseas).

Republicans meanwhile were the party of industry and capitalism since Lincoln, defining themselves as opposing government handouts and furthering their own industrial interests. Then they randomly got a massive white southerner voting block handed to them in the 70's and they started catering to religious conservative elements.

The reality is, the only reason republican got the southern voting block is because they had nowhere else to go. And the reason the two party system is locked in- and Andrew Jackson knew this- is because if the other party splits its vote, then the party that doesn't will win every time. This forces the other party to participate and cater to voting blocks it may find unsavory because if you don't win that block, the other block will.

That's our history. But internationally, history tells us another story...

tbc

>>51569140
like it ever fucking matters
in Europe they have a billion parties of varying degrees of shit, and none of them ever accomplish anything because they agree on even less shit than ours do, it's literally impossible for anything serious to get done because you can't get a fucking majority, ever.

>>51569140
Many democracies comfortably support 7 or more parties, like Australia or New Zealand. Each party has a comfortable representation in congress. It doesn't dissolve into a two party system because that would require other parties to cooperate and agree to things they don't like, when instead they can just side with whichever other party caters to their interests in this particular moment.

Furthermore, Australia at least has mandatory voting. Everyone votes every election. This forces parties towards centrism, to appeal to the majority who has no interest in politics but might easily be offended by radical positions.

The opposite is true in American politics. The party that wins now is the one that manages to energize the most voters. The more people think the world will end if their candidate loses, the more likely they are to vote. So both sides have to push and sell that like crack. Radical positions energize your base more than centrist ones. Sadly, it also energizes your oppositions base more than it energizes your own. This results in a negative vote "hatefuck" of an election. A sizable if not majority of votes cast are negative votes. Not votes for a candidate, but *against* another candidate. This is only possible in a two party system. And because negative votes are increasingly important, fearmongering and hatemongering are the most effective tools to get out the vote.

When the founders said partisanship would ruin the country- they had in mind the civil war. The seeds of it were there from the beginning. Jeffersons first draft of the constitution had an 8 page tirade about how slavery was evil. Franklin and Adams made him scrap it because they knew to beat England they had to unite w/ the South. Andrew Jackson knowingly took a populist position (handouts to the majority) to gain power, which forced a coalition and two party system to combat him. We survived the civil war. But so long as theres a two party system, there will be two Americas.

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>>51569140
>>51569244
This amount of utter stagnation bothers me on so many inner levels I can't even describe it.

What the fuck.

Revolutions suck but if somebody came along and fucked up the voting systems of the world so this ended, I wouldn't complain too much.

>>51569244
Oh you sweet summer child.

Not getting anything done is the best thing government can do. That's part of the design. Its why we have this ridiculously complex process of bicameral majority approval followed by executive veto and then supreme court overruling. It used to be the minority party could still stall something with a filibuster, but when that became inconvenient we gutted and dismantled that. Somehow under the shortsighted delusion that this could only benefit the ruling party and they would never again be the minority party.

You want things to get done, might I suggest moving to a dictatorship? They get all sorts of shit done constantly. That's why they never last more than 50 years.

>>51569359
>That's why they never last more than 50 years.
This isn't factually accurate. They rarely last more than a hundred years, but it's not at all rare for a dictatorship to last until the dictator's natural death, and the issue isn't so much governmental overactivity as it is a lack of robustness in the means of transferring power. But some governments don't have that issue at all - Communists in particular seem to have sidestepped the problem by institutionalizing the party.

>>51569499
>implying China or Russia's 1-party politics is in any way sane, stable, or better than the West

I don't know enough about modern Russia, but the Soviety Unions failure speaks for itself. I know far more than I ever wanted to know about China. And know this anon, the rats are already fleeing. The ship is sinking, and soon there will be blood on the water. However fucked up or unstable you think the US is right now, it isn't 1/10th as fucked as China is. That shit WILL burn in our lifetime. The question isn't if China's rulers will be executed in a populist revolt, but whether they will start a war as a last ditch effort to try and unite the country to an external threat and drag us down with them.

People are PISSED in China. The young people are too educated- too internet savvy for the censorship to do anything more than piss them off. The only thing that has mollified the country this long is the insane GDP growth. Which is slowing down rapidly as Chinese laborers demand better conditions and US companies move to Vietnam and Indonesia instead. And the final nail in the coffin is that the population reduction means that soon the young generation will be trying to support both an older generation that is larger than it, and a generation of young children. That will not hold.

Ironic, considering how much better things are than when the communist government was making so many active changes. Like killing everyone with an education as seditionists. Moving all professional workers out into the fields- seizing the land of farmers so that everyone had a small plot instead. Then demanding iron quotas from every citizen even though nobody had a mine, so people were forced to turn in their tools to meet the quota. Meanwhile rice yields went down for some reason and Mao declared the birds were eating the rice, so everyone should scare off the birds. They did, and then bugs ate all the rice.

You have no fucking idea kiddo. China is a wild goddamn ride of fuckups

>>51569787
What the fuck, China?

>>51569787
>better
At this one specific thing, not necessarily anything else. Whether it's the USSR, Cuba, or even North fucking Korea, communists are a lot better than fascists at transferring power from one singular individual to the next. Monarchs are still the best at it, as autocrats go, but they're not usually included in "dictators".

>all that bullshit that has nothing to do with anything anybody else was talking about
Discourse involves more than one person. Don't just blast off with your soap box at the first opportunity, save it for when someone actually wants to hear it.

>>51569862
>implying some one invested in this theoretical political conversation wouldn't be interested in what they added

>>51569787
continued.


The starvation was so bad in my wife's village that they ate every last living thing in the forest. To this day, birds do not chirp. There are no bugs. They ate everything that was edible. Everything. The rotten apples. The polluted fish. The skunks. Their brains. Their cartilage in the joints. Their bowels. All of it.

Meanwhile, the rice quotas for the cities were not being met. Mao punished the countryside, removing some administrators, imprisoning others, and "imprisoning" others. The next wave of administrators reported the correct quotas. They passed inspection by filling bags full of dirt and laying what rice they had on top of it. These were sent to the city. The country had no rice at all now.

Mao's advisors told him he was being a dumbass. So Mao killed his advisors. The next wave of advisors told him he was doing great. They still run the country. Or their heirs do.

So the provincial governors lie or they lose their head. The advisors lie or they lose their head. Anyone who tells the truth is the "problematic province" and must have fucked up. Not only does the chairman not believe you, but every other liar suddenly wants you to shut up. Tale a guess how that works out.

This "institutionalized" party you think "sidestepped the problem" is now the core of China's corruption. When the chairman came to inspect our town, they evacuated 30,000 people, detained them, and replaced every single goddamned one of them with paid actors and policeman. It was the soviets who invented the idea of a "Potemkin Village", but the Chinese middle government use it on their own National government. To pass inspection. They have to do this. Otherwise they're the problem province afterall. And all the other provinces help them do it. The advisors have his security detail afterall- they know his exact route. Every person in the restaurant. Every pedestrian. Every driver passing them in the other lane. Every last one- actors.

>>51569909
I'm sure there are people who would be interested, but at the very least he shouldn't pretend it's related to the post being quoted when he's going off on something that could be called a tangent only by a very generous man.

>>51569935
Political heritance structure and economic structure aren't the same thing.

>>51564251

I want to know this.

I could see him being desgusted with it but keeping up with the charade for morale purposes. Plus, you know, maybe the Inquisition puts an explosive collar in that armor or something. It's been a while since a "loyalist" Primary came back.

>>51569935
cont

So the chairman, he honestly thinks that everyone in China is happy. And he gets on the internet and sees all these people who are angry. And thinks, "clearly these are American internet spies". Because that's more reasonable than thinking "Mr. Chairman, everyone you've ever met in your entire time administrating China is a paid actor, and everything in every report you've been given is a carefully coordinated lie". So they spend literally a third of China's budget on propoganda and censorship to stop these damn crafty American spies and putting citizens who've been corrupted by American lies into secret rehabilitation camps. Administrated of course by the people who want to keep the lie secret.

Fun fact: did you know a Chinese prison warden can increase your sentence at any time for bad behavior? Did you know they can increase it to death sentence at any time? Did you know that these prisons also record your blood type and put your tissue samples into an organ donor database?

Oh and I haven't even gotten into the human trafficking. But do go on tell me how glorious a country runs when there's no opposition party and stable transfers of power.

>>51569862
>USSR: 1922-1992. Apparently an incredibly long lived and stable empire
>Maoist China. Definitely gonna last several centuries. Yup, I can feel it.

My soapbox is that one party politics with no political opposition that can get shit done whenever it wants to is the worst form of government bar none. I suppose it doesn't matter if its a dictator or an oligarchy like China or a goddamn mob rule. Any first world problem faggot who thinks their life is shit and the cure is giving their political party absolute power has no. goddamn. clue. how bad things can really get.

And like I said, I don't know enough about Russia, but every Russian I've met seemed to implicitly understand the same way the Chinese understand- your country is fine.

File: dis gon be good.gif (1MB, 823x454px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 823x454px

>>51570021
Hot damn, anon. Keep it coming, I can feel your righteous anger surging through my keyboard, and I love it.

>>51567368
>posting that fucking meme image
the /his/ in me has enough cringe in it to collapse into a fucking blackhole and absorb myself

>>51569964
It is the political inheritance structure I am complaining about, anon. It's just difficult to articulate how fucked up China actually is for you to understand my grievance with it.

Frankly, it would be very generous to call Mao a communist. He was mostly just a fucking clueless idiot. Hell, half of China's youth want European socialism. America is not the top choice for Chinese immigrants- but anywhere is better than China.

The other half of Chinese want to bring back Imperial China with a Mandate of Heaven to kill corrupt idiots and a decentralized bureaucracy ran by meritocratic scholars

>>51568496
Wasn't that a shoop

>>51568998
[Citation needed]

>>51570071

I wouldn't call the man clueless, but his competencies were quite specific and did not extend to running a country. Same problem with most revolutions(*) in the absence of government you get a lot of ad-hoc governments headed by people who are willing to use organized violence to get their way. The sort of person who does well in that circumstance is usually not the sort of person you want running a country.

* The English and the Americans are, as ever, freaks of history.

>>51570182
The only meaningful competency one could assign to Mao is lying and cowardice. He deliberately withheld his forces from fighting the Japanese so that the Federalists would incur additional casualties. He did so knowing the cost in civilian lives of letting the Japanese gain ground. Yes, that's strategically "competent" but its also fucking cowardly.

Most of Mao's achievements can be credited to his friends and advisors. The ones he killed when they told him he was fucking up. Not even "hey communism is bad" just "Mao, you're doing communism wrong".

>>51570106

99% sure it was a kitbashed Guilliman.

>>51570021
Do some basic math.
1992-1922>50
And the regime collapsed for economic reasons, not due to purely administrative flaws. The fact that the economic problems were mostly administrative in origin doesn't change that.

>B-but Maoist China sucked so clearly everything about all communist countries is worse than every other political structure ever
How about we stop focusing on China since apparently you're so personally invested in it that you no longer have the ability to see anything else when China is involved. So let's look at Cuba. Fidel was officially in office for 32 years, before stepping down and peacefully handing the country over. Let's compare that to Franco in Spain. These are both countries with a similar culture, both with a fairly well-educated ruling class, and a similar degree of purging of that elite (a degree less than that of Stalin and Mao, but still more than none). When Franco was dying, after 35 years in office he had only one option he could come up with to prevent civil war, and that was to restore the monarchy. Juan Carlos completely overhauled the government and ended up with a republic composed of autonomous communities with substantial local authority, more or less the exact opposite of Franco's ideals. Meanwhile, Fidel broadened the authority of the Council of Ministers slightly and put Raúl in charge of that, ensuring a smooth transition. And Raúl is ready to use more or less the same framework. In case Machado proves too infirm when the time comes, he's been grooming Miguel Díaz-Canel.

>>51570071
>It's just difficult to articulate how fucked up China actually is for you to understand my grievance with it.
No, that isn't the problem. The problem is there's no reason for you to do that because it's utterly ancillary to the point in the first place.

>>51570063
Is it not true, though? The images might be shit and the thing as a whole memeworthy, but it's still true.

>>51570256
The face, though. Look at the face. Gotta be shoop.

>>51570021

Not to say I doubt you on anything you're saying, but wouldn't the chairman know that it's all fake since he was presumably one of the advisors himself before he became chairman?

I mean Ive heard about the concept before in relation to the USSR. The logistics of it just don't seem possible even for China.

My dad is a fireman in a Midwestern capital city, and he's been there when Bush or Obama came to visit the city. They may close off a street/stop traffic/make a cordon, but all the people that line up to watch are locals. Hell, I saw Obama one time from like 200 feet a way.

>So is this the Time of Ending for 40k or what guys?

>>51570318
I know the logistics sound extreme. I chose that example because it illustrates how extreme the entrenched corruption is. They literally evacuated every "real" person. Just in case they said or did something to make the governor look bad. They don't evacuate 2 million people out of a large city. Just maybe a city block and the road to it. My example was a town of 30k, which is smallish for China. Sort of like the equivalent of Iowa or something.

As for the chairman, there are a few factors here. First, you grow up in Beijing and never leave it, you have no idea about the rest of your country. Much like people who grow up clueless in a DC or NYC or LA bubble. If you're in line for power in Beijing, then you're upper class and only associate with the upper class. The middle level of government corruption- which is mostly at the governor* and senator* level- has you pegged as a kid. Third, while some of Beijing has drank the koolaid and have no idea what reality is, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them DO know that "everybody puts on their best face", but they may not realize just how extreme it is, and more importantly- they don't know the truth even if they know the lie. They don't know how angry people actually are. And that's all that matters, from the regional government's perspective.

Actually, its kinda sad. Because things are getting bad enough that now they know things are rotten and they're trying- earnestly- to fix it. Lots of increasingly harsh anti-corruption laws. Making a show of being tough on corruption whenever they catch somebody. The problem is who they catch is a scapegoat patsy set up by the actually corrupt people, and most of these harsh corruption laws are supposed to be enforced by the exact people they're meant to catch.

Sad thing is, the feds will be the heads that roll while the corrupt will flee to Singapore with a box of jade and gold.

*these aren't the actual positions in China. Just an accessible equivalent translation

>>51570318
>So is this the Time of Ending for 40k or what guys?

Yes. See >>51550216 and >>51559951. Also, Commoragh blew up.
GW probably won't fuck up as bad as Age of Sigmar, though - I think (hope) they learned their lesson.

>>51570247

That's exactly my point though. The skills that let someone win a war are usually not the skills you need to manage peace. Occasionally you get someone like Napoleon who's good at both, but they're pretty rare, and not something you can count on.

>>51570258

I'd say Spain got pretty lucky there. Which is sort of the issue; if you have an enlightened dictator authoritarianism can work pretty well. The problem is what happens when you have your Mugabes or your Nicholas the Seconds and no real way to get rid of 'em?

>>51570481
>Napoleon
>good at peace
He was good at some aspects of it, but I don't think that's something you can say categorically.

>>51570071
I don't think European socialism is actually incompatible with a decentralized bureaucracy modeled somewhat after the Tang system.

>>51570258
ok, I get it anon. You really like benevolent dictatorship and don't see (out of our 4 examples: USSR, China, Spain, Cuba) a 50% catastrophic failure rate as *unstable*.

>Do you really want to sit here and count good outcomes and bad outcomes in autocratic regimes? Are we really going to play that game?

As for your continued challenges to the relevance of my argument:
>multiparty governments can't get shit done! better to have a single party government
>but anon, single party governments can do some really awful things. Here's a detailed example
>that example is irrelevant! Everything is fine if the transfer of power is stable
>no its not anon. Its still insane and shitty. That is why I explained my really detailed example
>your example is irrelevant! Here is an example where everything turned out fine
>that is true, maybe, I don't know anything about Cuba anon. But things sometimes going ok but not great doesn't mean things going catastrophically wrong are worth the risk and therefore instability that is inherent within autocracy

Does that accurately sum up the argument to you?

>>51570496

True, perhaps "civil administration" would have been the better word.

>>51570427

I thought they were fleeing to Vancouver with a fistful of land title documents?

>>51550231
This, plus people have been complaining for about a DECADE that the metaplot wasn't progressing at all and shit. Now everyone is whining that the status quo has been shaken up.

>>51570071
>spoiler
Wait, wasn't it every bit as corrupted as what they want to remove? It sounds like wishful thinking.

>>51570504
Its not obvious to me how that would work on the face of it, but I don't claim to have logical proof of contradiction.

I worry socialism would severely destabilize the key element of decentralization. Unless social welfare and redistribution programs were strictly isolated to within a single region and didn't transfer to other regions. Otherwise there will be a central governing body that necessarily violates the decentralized system- which is precisely what avoided the pitfalls of having somebody make decrees from afar who doesn't know the state of things on the ground.

Furthermore, poorly run regions would request federal aid rather than request a more competent administrator- which was a fairly key point in the Imperialist system.

>>51570552
>this guy. This guy knows what's up.

Also fleeing to Sydney with [the means of production] and all that.

>>51570481
>The problem is what happens when you have your Mugabes or your Nicholas the Seconds and no real way to get rid of 'em?
It depends. The romantic American in me wants to say that revolution is what happens. The historical reality is that this only happens if there's a relatively powerful bougeoisie that can leverage the lower classes, otherwise you get higher emigration rates but a lot of people deal with it or die.

>>51570520
>You really like
Stop projecting shit. I made one fucking point and you're arguing every other damn thing but what I actually said.

>(out of our 4 examples: USSR, China, Spain, Cuba) a 50% catastrophic failure rate as *unstable*.
Every country fails eventually, longevity is a better metric. And of those, I wouldn't call USSR's failure "catastrophic" necessarily, although the eventual failure resulted in huge territorial losses, the ideological "moral loss" wasn't that big due to a shift in perspectives in the half century leading up to that point. Meanwhile, China's success ended up catastrophic by a lot of metrics.

Here's a better summary of the discussion.

>multiparty governments don't get shit done, which is good because dictators do and they fail in less than 50 years!
>They can often last until the dictator dies, and communist governments tend to last even longer
>but anon, single party governments can do some really awful things. Here's a detailed example
>that has nothing to do with longevity of the regime
>Stop saying communism is good! Its still insane and shitty. That is why I explained my really detailed example
>Maoism sucking is still not relevant to longevity. Instead of looking at how much Mao specifically sucked, let's compare cases that are as similar as possible except in the relevant aspect: Government structure
>I don't like either of those governments, so clearly they're both examples of you disagreeing with me and there's nothing here I'm ignoring!

>>51570591
Well, there has to be some central organization or else it's not a single country, it's just a bunch of them. China tried that in the 19th century and it didn't work out. But you could easily run individual provinces more or less like California, with a central authority just setting things like education standards and drug testing (with provinces able to deviate in the details) and setting a few baseline regulations as well as handling things like international relations, military, and disaster relief.

>>51570570
Qing were very shitty and corrupt towards the end yes. Indeed, the Triads got their start as resistance fighters against the Manchurian usurpers. But I think the reality is the Qing would have been average if it weren't for the British empire/the west in general fucking with China hardcore when it was at its weakest. Like the Opium wars, the Boxer Rebellion, etcetera.

No system is perfect, really, but Imperial China lasted 5000 years, had long periods of peace and stability, economic dominance up until the end of the Ming, and steady technological progress. A civilization ran by scholars with abundant meritocracy and religion based failsafe against tyrants. Frankly, its very close to what Plato described as ideal in "The Republic".

Confucius: 1, Greeks: 0

>>51570681
>No system is perfect, really, but Imperial China lasted 5000 years, had long periods of peace and stability, economic dominance up until the end of the Ming, and steady technological progress. A civilization ran by scholars with abundant meritocracy and religion based failsafe against tyrants. Frankly, its very close to what Plato described as ideal in "The Republic".
Um, anon, reality doesn't seem to match this beautiful picture. Why did it fall if it was so great at every aspect and even had foolproof cultural mechanisms against tyranny and backwardness?

>>51570721

The last 3-4 Emperors were fucking idiots, China couldn't compete without westernizing and nobody but the elite wanted to, the system was eroded away with progressive values like feminism, socialism and atheism and a whole bunch of bad fucking luck.

>>51570629
45 million people dead- human beings growing up in conditions so fucked up that imagination cannot match reality- and you're hung up on the difference between 50 and 70 years as a relevant metric?

USSR also industrialized and had absurd GDP growth during the Great Depression (triple digit % if I recall) and the purges and famines that followed killed 52-62million, 50 million of which were directly attributable to Stalin, and you're going to call the USSR a success?? Literally ten times the Holocaust in deathcount. Yeah, it transitioned smoothly into tyrannical crony capitalism I'll give it that.

You know what lasted longer than the USSR? The Yuan dynasty. 89 years, following Ghengis Khan. Largely regarded as an incredibly unsuccessful peacetime regime- and prototypical example of a conqueror who couldn't govern.

If all this fuss is because I didn't acknowledge that 70 years of soviets is longer than my arbitrarily chosen 50 years, then ok, you win. Whatever. But if you honestly think any regime that lasts more than 50 years is a success metric regardless of how many epic level atrocities it commits, I think it might be time for you to admit that you're the one who missed the point.

>and its not communism I'm mad at. Its one party rule- i.e. government structure. Even when everything turns out fine like it did in Cuba apparently, its still a shitty and bad idea.

>>51570851
Yes, years are a more accurate metric of longevity than deaths are. Do you also get offended when someone tells you that you can't measure temperature in meters?

>>51570860

>damage controlling this hard

I want lefties to leave yotsuba forever

>>51570681

"The Empire, long united, must divide; the Empire, long divided, must unite."

It's probably a bit generous to describe imperial China as a single continuous entity.

>>51570671

That actually sounds a lot like Canada. Every Province runs its own system of healthcare, welfare, and education. The federal component of the social welfare system is old age pensions and UI, as well as some tax benefits.

>>51570851
>arguing that they lasted longer means that you're arguing that they were successful and generally good
Oh, fuck off already.

>like it did in Cuba apparently
Cuba turned out fine regarding the stability of the government, and they have good education and medicine. They're also very poor and civil rights are harshly constrained. The governance of an entire nation is a fuckton more complicated than just "good" or "shit". Quit trying to conflate every single aspect of governance.

>>51570899
Pretty ironic from someone who just typed upwards of 10,000 characters of damage control against what wasn't even really "damage" in the first place.

>>51570936

I'm not the Chinese guy and you really did attempt to damage control the fuck out of all the idiocy you typed, buddy.

>>51569244
Europe's problem is the fucking EU.
It is killing the nations of Europe, slowly but surely.

EU isn't even a fucking democratic organization. The members of the EU parliament that people vote to get there, cannot even make laws, just vote yes or no on laws made by unellected bureaucratic councils that work behind closed doors.

EU doesn't serve the interests of the European peoples. It serves the global elites only. That is why EU supports the demographic replacement of native Europeans via mass immigration. They want to destroy the European nation states and their internal homogeneity so that the threat of nationalistic "uprising" and nations leaving the EU can be eliminated.

>>51570845
For the record, this isn't me. I'm >>51570681

>>51570721
Well, I'm not sure I necessarily endorse your "might=right" measure of civilization. Ever read "Race to the Bottom"? Not everything that out-competes is better. I guess you can just define it to be "better" and therefore it is. But something of value is lost in that conception.

Basically, if China lived in a world that ended at Persia, I think this system would have been fine in perpetuity. But obviously that's not what happened. Europe happened. And I don't mean that in a white guilt sense. Through cunning and guile and ruthless ambition, Europe dismantled the old world and the new.

Asking how Europe became dominant is a very interesting and powerful question. Asking why China fell is exactly as interesting and dynamic, and in some sense asking the same question as the first.

Things Europe did right:
-constant Malthusian warfare with eachother advanced your arms race much faster than China, who nobody would dare challenge and only had to have arms great enough to maintain its own stability.
-naval exploration of the new world. China really should have found it first. But they dismantled Zheng He's exploration fleet in the 1400's because it was powerful enough for a potential coup. Europe got lucky and wiped out the natives with guns, germs, and steel. And they had a lot of gold.
-late China suffered from Mandarinization. A problem where academics start to exclude people who disagree with them (sound familiar USA?). Early China, in contrast, tested specifically for creativity and diverse opinion.
-hard to say for sure, but industrialization probably occurred in the west because of you're comfortable with conflict and cutthroat competition. There was a race to outcompete eachother, whereas China could just throw more labor at it and mark it off as resolved unemployment. Stability and complacency means slower technological growth (which may be a good thing, in the age of nukes and AI).

>>51570979

>EU doesn't serve the interests of the European peoples. It serves the global elites only. That is why EU supports the demographic replacement of native Europeans via mass immigration. They want to destroy the European nation states and their internal homogeneity so that the threat of nationalistic "uprising" and nations leaving the EU can be eliminated.

Couple years ago I would have made fun of you for saying that.

Now Im not so sure which is really scary.

>>51570954
Since you're apparently an impartial observer, could you be specific about what you see as damage control? Because from my perspective, my point has remained constant (exactly as phrased in >>51569862
and I didn't really even bother to deviate and humor is tangents much.

>>51570936

Also

>Cuba
>good education and medicine

Are you Cuban? Have you been to Cuba?

I'm a Cuban from Holguin living in Florida.

Education anywhere other than Habana is so bad kids in the southern tip can't read. I learned maths in an American school because my little shitty provincial school wasn't up to the task of teaching me how to divide.

Healthcare is fucking bullshit in Cuba. You wait several days for a nurse to tell you whether or not a Doctor has the time to assist you, and even if he does, the medicine is not fully paid for by the government. At least it wasn't in 92, when my mother smuggled us out of that shithole.

>>51571012
Good on your mother for you getting your family out of there, that must have been tough.

How much better is Florida? (To help with a sense of scale - most people from cushy 1st world countries have never been outside of one.)

>>51571041

Imagine not having electricity everyday and living on 6 kilograms of rice, 2 chickens, 6 kilograms of beans and 40 liters of water a month plus whatever you can get on your own.

The police are useless. There's no instant pickup 911 and even if your call gets through the cops will take several hours to come at best and not show up at all at worst.

The roads are shit. SHIT. Not like it matters since noone but the richest have a car anyway. Still, potholes and cracks everywhere.

Buildings look decrepit. There's walls with bullet holes from the revolution that no one fixed or can fix.

And a myriad other things Americans take for granted. In my class only two kids had shoes and they were their brothers' old pairs.

I know what socialism does, it destroyed my country. I hate American liberals because they refuse to look at what has happened to welfare states and actively work to bring one about.

>>51570954
>>51570899
Yeah, not me. Xiexie for clarifying fellow anons.

>>51570936
Cuba is alright I guess. I think that claim is debatable, but like I've said repeatedly I don't really know anything about it. I will take you at your word that Cuba is doing ok, but if somebody else disagreed I wouldn't call them wrong either since I don't really know.

>>51570860
Honestly I don't really know what I'm supposed to say to this. I can't really think of a polite refutation because pretty much any refutation requires calling you either an idiot or a monster. Maybe we should try measuring the the success of countries in "kilobastards"?

>over 9000 kilobastards
>like, 9.8 megabastards, hory shit.

>>51554854
This looks horrible to paint or transport.

>>51571003
The threat of demographic replacement of Europeans is very fucking real.
It is already happening in nations like France, Sweden and Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF9V8POmuxg

It obviously suits the interests of the EU bureaucrats. If they break the demographic makeup of European nations by introducing shittons of unwanted aliens from foreign cultures into those nations, they weaken the internal cultural unity of those nations and thus weaken the possibility of a nationalistic parties rising into prominence, and demanding changes to the EU, or flat out leaving it all together.

Nationalism is the biggest threat to EU and the unellected bureaucratic leeches that run it. I suspect that the real purpose of the EU army that these globalist cunts are desperate to create, is to be a tool of supression should any more nations try to leave the EU.
All this scaremongering about how Russia is supposedly the big threat to us, is just a distraction behind which the true enemy of European people, EU works to enslave Europe to it's corrupt machinery forevermore.

>>51571012
Yeah, I'll admit I'm going by publicly available statistics there which the party has probably done something to mess with. But still, UNESCO puts literacy pretty high and Cuban medicine is good enough that Cuba uses doctors as diplomats. And honestly, the medicine you describe is pretty much how I'd describe most European medicine. I suspect your better experience in the US may have colored your perception, because the US is better than most of the world but even here there's areas where the schools don't really teach even reading and arithmetic. A lot of the world is way worse off. If you consider how poor the country is, and even if the reported literacy rate is off by a substantial margin, Cuba is doing a lot better than her economic peers in those two specific areas that the party prioritizes.

Still though, I am just going by the numbers and comparing hearsay to my experiences elsewhere. Nobody I know well has been in Cuba as recently as you have.

>>51571132
>but if somebody else disagreed

>>51571012
>>51571102
oh what irony that a Cuban would appear. See? This is why I withheld judgement.

>>51571169
>All this scaremongering about how Russia is supposedly the big threat to us, is just a distraction behind which the true enemy of European people, EU works to enslave Europe to it's corrupt machinery forevermore.
Putin wants to destroy the EU to further his aims of gobbling up the Baltics, Ukraine and Georgia. It's the second prong of his plan, after first creating a complaisant US (which has been achieved with Trump's election.) The FSB was heavily involved in pushing for Brexit, the Italian withdrawal plans, and scaremongering about foreigners (which you appear to have swallowed whole). United it stands, and divided it will fall.

>>51571197
>Cuba is doing a lot better than her economic peers
You know I hear Libertarians make the same argument about Somalia all the time?

>>51571132
>respond to a post clarifying that one thing being alright doesn't mean another is by saying "okay, I guess that means everything about this country is alright"
Fuck it. You're as dumb as Mao. I bet this is what the people who tried to tell him when he was being an idiot felt like.

>>51571221

>being ruled by a shady gaggle of unelected "politicians" is good if it means EVUL PUTAN won't get his way

I cannot begin to comprehend the mental gymnastics routine you are currently performing

>>51571197

Going by publicly available statistics North Korea hasn't been in a famine for the last 20 years.

>Cuban medicine is good enough that Cuba uses doctors as diplomats

Why do you think there's no doctors? It's all a charade set up by Habana to make it look like my people don't live in infinite suffering and poverty. Is Cuba not as bad as Haiti? Yeah, but Haiti is about as well off as Somalia.

>>51571231
>this argument is getting too complicated for me, how can I simplify it into factions? I know! I'll take one phrase out of context and imply that the person talking to me has something in common with the side that he, since he's arguing with me, clearly isn't on!

>>51571161
No worries! Just buy our custom Avatar of Ynnead transport case for $129.99!

>>51571239
>I bet this is what the people who tried to tell him when he was being an idiot felt like.

No, that feels like getting shot mostly.

>>51571221
>United it stands, and divided it will fall.
Fuck off.
We aren't "united".
I am not a fucking "European". I'm a Finn, and I got no kinship with krauts, poles, swedes or any other Europeans and I don't want my people's fates tethered to you assholes.

EU is far greater existential threat to my people than the "ebil putin" is. The sooner EU falls, the better. This piece of shit union doesn't serve my people's interests in any fucking way.

File: 13th_Black_Crusade.jpg (150KB, 1000x750px) Image search: [Google]

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Fucking Hell guys, can we go back to talking about 40k "End Times" and leave politics to /pol/

>>51571404
>>51571273
>>51571132

So a Chinaman, a Cuban, and a Finn walk into a board...

>>51571429
The Chinaman says the board was built to fool the party. The Cuban says it's there because the party hasn't removed it. The Finn thinks getting hit by a board is a party in itself.

>>51571482
Legit kek.

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>>51571482
I lol'd.

Man I love Finland. This magical realm of alcoholic snipers in a death metal fight club.

Guess this thread is...
>Finnished

>>51571406
Do you honestly think a political discussion of something this important and diverse would stay civil for any period of time on /pol/?

They get one thread, let 'em have it for now.

Da is kill.
And It was a good friend

>>51571429
>>51571482
>>51571531

>When will my sides find relief, gentlemen?!

>>51550217
The new avatar is literally a proxy from ergo proxy.

>>51570561
No one with a brain was complaining about the metaplot. A stable and steady timeframe is what made the game work lol.

>>51559529
Shut up idiot.

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>>51561872
>Eldar killing cocksuckers that fucked their own race over and proceeded to resurrect Robutt Girlyman.
He is their only hope to survive desu.

>>51571221
So, at this point, the neoliberal position of US and EU is to literally believe that Putin is Tzeench.
Great.

>>51571817
How do you say "keikakudouri" in Russian?

>>51571221
This would make sense if only western countries (and only western countries) werent full of idiot foreigners.

>>51550398
It's the "GW is trash and on the brink of bankruptcy" man

>>51571899
Nice strawman.

>>51571247
>>51571404
>>51571817
>>51571868

Not only Putin, USA too does not want to lose its influence. If you knew history a bit, it would be obvious for you. The world is too big now for us alone.
I will not defend EU bureaucracy, but ragequitting is pointless and dangerous. We have to change it from the inside.
Quarreling more, we will end like the Gauls vs the Romans, or the Britons vs the Anglo-Saxons.

>>51572082
Rage quitting is the only way we can at this point, stop the process of European federalization and the demographic replacement of native europeans.

Fuck the EU.
I want to kill the treasonous politicians that brought us into this fucking union.

>>51550152
just finished playing a game with the newest 40k releases and the current rules. was fun, had a good time, me and my buddy enjoyed ourselves thoroughly. I would say the game is still fun to play and 90% of the people on 4chan are fat retarded autists who will never be happy. be the 10% /k/ anon

>>51571836
Кaк пo нoтaм

>>51572100
>demographic replacement of native europeans
AHAHAH ah ok. Hello /pol/.

>>51572123
Nothing /pol/ about that statement.
Look at the demographic shifts that are going on in Europe, and the percentage of foreign born populations in various European nations, which keeps on increasing.

The video linked in this post explains the situation in detail in Germany:
>>51571169

In short, at the current rates of migration, it takes only 5-10 years for native german men in the age group of 20-35, to become a minority when compared to foreign born men of that same age group.

If you don't see what that sort of massive shift in demographics will lead to, you are fucking blind.

>>51572082
The EU is literally a filthy cuck no one wants anything to do with it.

>>51572158
I am aware of the problem, but blame it on the EU is crazytalk.
We stopped making babies for economical nd social reason. The bean counters just thought, wrongly, that importing people is a solution to that. But there is no "conspiracy" there is a cultural problem related maynly by a change in the economy and wealth distribution across the world and the expectation people have.
We are expected to raise kids like our grandfathers, making sacrifices, but we are more spoiled that our fathers that (generally speaking, at least) had it quite easy.
Almost impossible convince women about that, now, BTW.

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>>51571817
Are you implying that he isn't?

>>51572123
Did it take you so long to notice? "Euroskepticism", Islamophobia, Putin apologism, Great Replacement conspiracy theories and antisemitism go hand in hand.

>>51572186
Touche'.

>>51572184
>I am aware of the problem, but blame it on the EU is crazytalk.

How come?
EU pushes for this shit? EU rages at countries that refuse to take these "refugees" in. EU actively fails to enforce it's borders and protect it's "citizens" from this migrant invasion.

EU is every bit to blame for this shit. EU doesn't care if Europe is populated by Europeans or by africans, as long as people keep paying taxes and voting pro eu parties. In fact, they would much prefer Europe populated by rootless immigrants that have no nationalistic or cultural unity that could threaten or hinder the process of European federalization.

The benefit and well being of EUROPEANS is not something EU is concerned with. EU exists to protect the interests of the economic and political elite, not the native peoples of Europe.

>>51571836
Чики-бpики и в дaмки!

>>51572186
>Euroskepticism
Perfectly valid position given the anti democratic nature of EU and the fact that it doesn't serve the interest of the European peoples, only the financial and political elite.

>Islamophobia
Dislike of a barbaric and violent culture that has backwards, and savage values, and whose adherents routinely commit terroristic attacks against civilians, is a perfectly valid position as well.

> Putin apologism
Not seeing Putin as some sort of super genious Tzeenechian mastermind who's behind everything that is going on in the world, is hardly apologism. Nobody here has praised Putin, just mocked the narrative of how the guy is supposedly behind every setback that has happened to the globalist machinations during the last few years.

> Great Replacement conspiracy theories
Not a conspiracy theory. The ongoing demographic replacement of Europeans is a fact that you can prove by simply looking at statistics of the changes that have happened to the demographic makeup of European countries.

>antisemitism
Who the hell has said anything about the jews in this thread? You are the first person to bring jews up.

>>51572209
You spent too much time on /pol/ and you think about muh evul conspiracies. Is simpler than that.
The first component is quite practical - we don't make babies and a solution is needed.
The second component is the bean counters swallowing bullshit from the neo-academia and thinking that you can just emport people en-masse and they will magically integrate, ignoring huge cultural differences.
Then we have unfortunate historical happenings like USA fucking up middle east and straining even more the relationship (with the important element that people see themselves more as muslim than anything else).

Also, many young european would love to make babies but is hard to find a job. I changed 3 nations in 6 years and I am going to a new one next month. Some is lucky and the girl will follow, but is something I see happen to iranians or arabs, EU women want it all NOW and will just dump you 75% of times.

Finally, importing people is needed more than anyone else by capitalists, because is needed to lower the cost of work. First capitalists globalized the world, but it did not go as expected and China fucked us over. THEN now want to make the west as much "affordable" as china.

>>51572251
>Not a conspiracy theory. The ongoing demographic replacement of Europeans is a fact that you can prove by simply looking at statistics of the changes that have happened to the demographic makeup of European countries.

We should regulate the influx, but the bigger problem is people native of the EU not making babies. My question is WHY.

>>51568998
>this is what /pol/yps think.
Yes, pepe made trump win anon. Hillary sitting on her ass and not campaigning in swing states had nothing to do with it.

>>51572255
>gas lighting

>>51572209
hey dumbass. The EU rages at countries that refuse to take in refugees because the EU is a signatory to the new york declaration of human rights.

>>51572251
>Not seeing Putin as some sort of super genious Tzeenechian mastermind who's behind everything that is going on in the world, is hardly apologism.

True, but many see him as an alternative to EU and ignore all his imperialistic measures.
Many answer "b-but EU and USA are as much as imperialistic" but ignore other aspects of our societies. Also, even admitting that, if you cheer for the leader of the opposing team (because this is what he is, is either our influence or their) you are just retarded.

>>51572312
Papa putin will liberate us from our leftist masters and retake constantinople.
Forget the fact that his country is being actually overrun by islamic steppeniggers.

>>51572289
You don't know what gas lighting is.

>>51572291
also, it would have been cool do not destabilise middle east and avoid the refugee problem in the first place.

>>51572320
>Forget the fact that his country is being actually overrun by islamic steppeniggers.
Yeah sure, who work here for minimum wage and don't sit on welfare.

>>51572323
most of the refugees are in jordan and turkey.
Apparently it's the europeans who are taking the majority of the brunt from what you would think on 4chan.

>>51572342
You need your refugee application processed before you even get welfare in the EU.

If you aren't one you will eventually be deported without Eurobux.

>>51572255
>>51572270

The problem is not that native Europeans aren't making babies. It is that we aren't making as many babies as the great generation did, which resulted in the Baby boom of Western world.
The structures and economic models of western societies were built with the idea of baby boom levels of birth rates being the norm, when they were an exception.

Also, culture and current society discourages people from having children, especially at the prime breeding age of 20-30. Many people start having kids only after their thirties, and when they do, they have 1 or 2 kids.

And yeah, I got love for ultracapitalists either, who simply see the natives of Europe as workforce that isn't producing enough replacements for itself to fuel endless growth themselves. I hate the rootless financial elites just as much as I hate the leftist "no borders" faggots. They are two sides of the same rotten globalist coin.

>>51572355
>If you aren't one you will eventually be deported without Eurobux.
Unless you dissappear without a trace and appear somewhere else. Anyways, what you said about Russia isn't happening.

>>51572291
> the EU is a signatory to the new york declaration of human rights.

>implying these migrants are actually refugees and not just economic opportunists who are seeking an easier life.

Newsflash, there is no human right that grants you the right to waltz into any country you please and start living there. Sovereign countries have every right to bar anyone they damn well please from entering.
That's why EU wants to destroy the last shreds of sovereignty it's member nations have.

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>>51572358
And how do you solve that?
A state that determines your nationality by your ethnic makeup, focuses on max employability at the cost of productivity, tells you how good everything is and every problem you face is caused by some (((other))))?

>>51572358
>And yeah, I got love for ultracapitalists either, who simply see the natives of Europe as >workforce that isn't producing enough replacements for itself to fuel endless growth >themselves. I hate the rootless financial elites just as much as I hate the leftist "no >borders" faggots. They are two sides of the same rotten globalist coin.

Oh, I can agree with that. No borders are indeed retarded - I am originally from Italy, albeit far away from that country since many years. In the south, illegals are literally captured by mafia and put to work on fields for dimes. It remembers me the George Carlin joke on conservatives, saying that they care for the embryo until is born. Then, no healthcare, no school or whatever.

No borders are the same with refugees. They care until they crossed the border, after that, is their problem. Organ market? Prostitution? Mafia slaves? lol who cares

>>51572385
yeah, they are just freeloading off european money despite largely living in bad conditions, being unemployable (until you are actually granted asylum) and trying to do joyrides on buses.

>>51550835
of course loyal guardsman, for you see that was our plan all along. Cadia was the site of yet another glorious victory for the Imperium. Please report anyone claiming otherwise to your regimental commissar so they may be properly educated.

>>51572377
Yeah, europe is being actually replaced by sandniggers, but russia with an oil economy the size of italy, looming population problems since the fall of the SU is going to go along just fine.

>>51572422
That's another story unless you want to move the goalposts

>>51572323
You are gas lighting. It doesn't work.

>>51572323
>pulls off mask
Oh looks its an arab.

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>>51572387
A state that works towards the well being and betterment of it's people (in my case, Finns) instead of the economic benefit of the financial elite. A state that encourages strong nationalism and pride in our culture, supports families with many children with various economic incentives, supports our native industries and companies, but gives heavy penalties for ones that try to leave the country in search of maximum profits.

A state that focuses on education and technological development, but also roots out the globalistic ideologies that rot our universities and spread their cancerous influence to our youth and basically work to undermine our own people in our homeland. Advocating for globalism and multiculturalism is pretty much treason in my eyes, and treason warrants death.

A state that values a strong defense, both military, as well as culturally, so that neither external military threats, or foreign cultural subversion, can be used to undermine us. A state that holds politicians responsible for the decisions they make, and should a politician work towards the benefit of himself or some foreign actor at the expense of our people, the state would punish such politician harshly.

So I guess that I am a fascist, at least according to this definition.
Given the knowledge of my own people's history (we were subjugated under the rule of foreigners for over 800 years), and the current nature of the world, I see no other viable alternative for a state that can guarantee the safety and continued existence of my people for the foreseeable future. Cultural subversion, internal treason by EU loving politicians, and general weakening of our people's unity has already done enough damage that I do not know for sure if it can be repaired. We thankfully, still don't have the same level of immigration problems as Sweden has, but some of our treasonous politicians and leftists seem to want to take us towards that direction.

>>51572406
Why do you think that wast majority of these "refugees" have gone to countries with high welfare benefits?

>>51572467
That is not how gas lighting work. You need a personal interaction. You are just wrong.

>>51572476
Sbagliato, brutto coglione. You are pathetic. You think only an arab could be outraged by the destruction of middle east and its humanitarian and cultural consequences. Also, you assume only arab live in the middle east.

>>51572492
Those are some pretty hot politically incorrect views you got there, I think these guys would be pretty interested in hearing them:
>>>/pol/

Now talk about 40k or shut the fuck up.

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>>51571406
As an avid /pol/ browser this is the best /pol/ thread i've seen in ages

>>51572569
So talk about china and cuba and their internal politics etc like that this thread was about 100 posts ago is A-OK, but when someone talks about political stuff you disagree with it suddenly is off topic and must go away? Fucking hypocrite.

This thread hasn't been about 40k in a while now.

>>51572552
Telling people that they are crazy despite all factual evidence is gas lighting.
There doesn't need to be any physical interaction at all.
I think your problem is that you are a moron who doesn't know what they are talking about while trying to shill your own anti-european opinion.
Its ironic that your furst reaction to being outed is to continue gas lighting.

>>51572569
>Now talk about 40k
Gas the Tau, race war now!

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>>51572609
This recent Ynnari bullshit with the Eldar inspired me to make this.

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>>51572580
Wrong
memes > flamewars
This thread is shit

>>51572590
Lefties gonna leftie they think 4chan is only a forum for retarded socialist propaganda and anything that triggers them is /pol/

>>51572601
I am a well-traveled person and I am aware of my strengths, thanks.

Also, saying "crazytalk" does not directly implies one is totally crazy - is just saying "don't say that, only a madman would.

You are surprisingly thin-skinned for this place. Hilarious.

Also, 0 counter arguments given. Because you have not the means or intelligence to do that.

>>51550216
GW said explicitly that this is not a 40k end times

>>51572641
>trusting GW
>ever.

>>51572635
You're a fucking joke with an idiot opinion hiding behind a screen.
The thing I love about 4chan is being able to tell sneaky little cunts like you to go fuck themselves.

>>51572619
Replace Biel-Tan with Eldar empire

>>51572651
Again, zero arguments. You are really triggered.
You should travel the world more, it really changes your mind.

>>51572641
>Is this the 40k End Times?
>No no, the End Times was an event for Warhammer Fantasy. This is the Time of Ending, which is a TOTALLY different thing

>>51572673
Pretty much this

>>51572641
Source?

>>51572670
>hurr /pol/ hurr conspiracies hurr you dudnt see anything hurr nothings happening hurrr its all capitalists
This is what you sound like a dumb leftist cuck. Fuck off to reddit.

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>>51572660
k.

>>51572696
Noice, now springle it with spurdo speech and :DD if you want

>>51572641
And they said the same thing during the End times that it wasnt the end of warhammer.

>>51572692
Is not what I have said, dumbass. Re-read here:
>>51572255
I did not deny the problem, I said that there is not conspiracy, just a combination of cultural changes that do not fit with the current economic situation. You are functionally illiterate.

I do strongly believe in regulation of immigration, and in an absorption of valuable immigrants without any racism.
I am against stupid mass immigration and the politically correct hypocrisy of the left that leaves a fragmented society and ghettoes.
But the west did fucked up middle east so we have to take responsibility for that.

>>51572723
>its not what ive said
>literally what you have said
You are not intelligent enough to be talking about this stuff you dumb cuck.

>>51572748
I give up. I see why most board call it a containment board.

>>51572759
>you're crazy
>hurr /pol/ conspiracies
>hurr i never said there is a cinspiracy (woosh)
>waaah /pol/
Consider the following : you go to /pol/ because you are a political crank.
Its meant for you. Go there.

>>51572783
whatever buddy. whatever.

>you're crazy
You are still butthurt about that. What happened, someone very important for you said it to you, seriously, recently? Is this the reason is hurts so much?

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>>51572717
Now it is perfect.

>>51572798
I'm not even the person you were directing your failed lies at just thought i'd laugh at your pathetic attempt to gas light people

>>51572805
Berfecd

>>51572811
I would not be surprised, functional illiteracy is widespread here.

>>51572670
Why travel the world when you can stay at home and call everyone a cuck?

>>51572865
>>>/pol/

>>51572880
>I will suggest to to go /pol/ to people that told me to go to go /pol/, it will make me look smart

>>51572508
because they have generally higher living standards and have taken a more humanitarian approach?

And I didn't know that turkey and jordan had large welfare states.

>>51572492
And what happens when fungol land goes it's own way out of the EU and is crushed by Russia?

>>51572964
>And what happens when fungol land goes it's own way out of the EU and is crushed by Russia?
The ruskies are welcome to try. We fought them before.

Also, the strategic reasons that caused ruskies to attack us in ww2 are no longer around. The primary reason for their attack was to get a buffer zone between Saint Petersburg and our border, so that our territory couldn't be used to invade Russia as easily, and so that we couldn't shell them from our side of the border. They succeeded in that, as the conclusion of the war saw us lose Karelia to them.

In the modern world, there is no real strategic reasons for Ruskies to attack us, which is why I don't consider the idea of Russian invasion to be that credible of a threat.

Far bigger threats are insidious cultural subversion coming from our supposed western "allies" and the threat of demographic replacement, which we can see occurring already in nations like Germany, France and Sweden.

>>51573029
>we have fought them before
And you ended up losing half your country to them and received huge amounts of foreign aid from european countries.

>germany
you mean the country with 1% muslims which has pretty high immigration cutoffs?

>France
A country that has been importing laborers from french colonies to prop up it's low birth rate, which was always a problem in france after napoleon?

>sweden.
A meme gone too far.

Do you know how hard it actually is to immigrate to the west if you aren't a skilled worker or investing in a country? The only reason you are seeing a flood of Refugees in europe is because there is a humanitarian crisis going on in the middle east. If you want scary brown people out of europe you would rather ask your leaders to ask for a speedy end to the syrian conflict.

>>51572123

Tell us more on how Europe needs hordes of Mudslimes and Niggers who won't assimilate and eat welfare.

>>51573128
Look what I wrote here, retard.
>>51572723

This is why you /pol/acks are just another aspect of the problem. You are too dumb to be useful, the only thing you can do is to follow populists or suck Putin's cock.

>>51573079
>And you ended up losing half your country to them and received huge amounts of foreign aid from european countries.
First off, we only lost Karelia and Petsamo, and that's better than total occupation which the baltics went trough.
Also, we received no fucking aid from western countries. Swedes sent some volunteers during the war, but after it, we got no economic aid from any western nation. Not even Marshal aid.

>you mean the country with 1% muslims which has pretty high immigration cutoffs?
There are over 5 million muslims in Germany and the numbers are increasing tremendously due to the refugee crisis. That's way more than jsut 1% out of 80 million. Also, keep in mind that Germany's population, especially that of the natives, is generally quite old when compared to the refugees that have arrived there. In 40 or so years, after the older generations have died off, the demographic makeup of Germany will be wholly different.

>A country that has been importing laborers from french colonies to prop up it's low birth rate, which was always a problem in france after napoleon?
A prime example of the elites who care nothing of their own kinsmen, fucking their own people over for economic reasons.

>A meme gone too far.
Most of the shit you hear from Sweden is fucking true m8.
Sweden is utterly fucked.

>The only reason you are seeing a flood of Refugees in europe is because there is a humanitarian crisis going on in the middle east.
My country had nothing to do with causing that, my people are not under any fucking obligation to suffer and risk our own future in order to help a bunch of foreigners.

> If you want scary brown people out of europe you would rather ask your leaders to ask for a speedy end to the syrian conflict.
>implying that these "refugees" will leave even if the syrian conflict is resolved, unless they are forced to.
First off, wast majority of them are not even Syrian or refugees for that matter. They are economic migrants, nothing more.

>>51573079
>If you want scary brown people out of europe you would rather ask your leaders to ask for a speedy end to the syrian conflict.
How many of the refugees are Syrians? 30% maybe?

>>51572723

> But the west did fucked up middle east so we have to take responsibility for that.

>White Guilt

>>>/tumblr/

>>51573172
>no aid from western countries.
During the winter war.

>5 million muslims.
And they will largely go back home once the conflict is over because they are being granted temporary visas. They aren't being given political asylum and long term visas.

>Muh own kinsmen
Economy is what nations and civilizations run on you stupid mongoloid. Rome fell when it lost access to both it's north african grain and Spanish gold, not because of racemixing or christianity.

>My country just wants to sit in a corner and make money with sweet trade deals that the EU provides, We don't want any actual obligations.
See this is what I don't get. The EU is destroying europe but the last two wars on the european continent were A-OK because there were no brown people.

>>51573213
This is not something of 200 years ago, retard. Is George Bush and Tony Blair.

>>51573223

So guilt through association.

>>51573243
>democratically elected countries and alliances destabilize the country
>they aren't responsible at all for the humanitarian crises they cause.
pick one you AnCap.

>>51573243
Your obliviousness concerning recent history is disconcerting.

>>51573269
It's easy to live in an echo chamber.

>>51573221
>During the winter war.
Again, only volunteers, we got no official support from anyone but the "ebil nazis".

>And they will largely go back home once the conflict is over because they are being granted temporary visas. They aren't being given political asylum and long term visas.
M8, there are over 5 million muslims in germany that are permanent residents there. I wasn't even counting the refugee numbers, because the estimates of their exact number in germany vary so wildly.
The ones that are already "citizens" in germany ain't leaving unless forced at gunpoint, which imo, the germans ought to do if they wish to prevent the islamization of their homeland.

>Economy is what nations and civilizations run on you stupid mongoloid. Rome fell when it lost access to both it's north african grain and Spanish gold, not because of racemixing or christianity.

Economy and wealth are not the fucking end goals. They are tools that help your own kin, your own people to survive, endure and develop better living conditions for their descendants.
Economic growth that results in fucking over your own people is not something to strive for. It only serves the interests of wealthy, rootless individuals that care nothing for their own people.

>The EU is destroying europe but the last two wars on the european continent were A-OK because there were no brown people.
Nice strawman. I never said that the wars waged in Europe were ok. The wars devastated Europe, and they were largely waged because of the desires of the greedy, and resulted in massive losses of life of the native europeans.
EU is also destroying Europe, but in a different way. The insidious thing about EU is that if they succeed, there will be no more Europeans left in the future. At least we could recover from the wars. We cannot recover from the demographic replacement EU is fascinating in our homelands without extreme brutality should the situation go beyond a certain threshold.

>>51573254
>>51573269

>Some man in Sweden has to get stabbed by Mudslimes since 'Murica bombed some other Mudslimes

Found the Lefties.

>>51570451
>Also, Commoragh blew up
When did this happen?
Was it Khan who did it?

>>51573304

>M8, there are over 5 million muslims in germany that are permanent residents there.

How many of those are immigrants? As I doubt that literally every muslim in Germany turned up in the last 3 years.

>>51572723
>But the west did fucked up middle east so we have to take responsibility for that.
We literally do not. Fuck them. Us vs them.

>>51572670
Traveling the world just teaches you how unbearably shitty everywhere and everyone outside the first world is, assuming you've got the balls to step outside the carefully managed tourist traps.

>>51573304
>The ones that are already "citizens" in germany ain't leaving unless forced at gunpoint, which imo, the germans ought to do if they wish to prevent the islamization of their homeland.

>Economy and wealth are not the fucking end goals. They are tools that help your own kin, your own people to survive, endure and develop better living conditions for their descendants.

How does this interact with people willingly converting to islam? Do they stop being kin?

>>51573329

They're self-loathing. Or dysfunctional.

>>51573335

Like those German barbarians that converted to that other middle eastern religion, Christianity?

>>51573329
>Do people who willingly convert to an ideology that directly opposes freedom and rationality and wants to subjugate you stop being kin
In ye olden times we'd call those people "traitors", so yes.

>>51573354

Does this apply to people converting to Shinto or Judaism as well?

>>51573350

Christianity devoured Greek philosophy and had the Enlightenment. Islam didn't outside of some heretic Muslims here and there.

Islam is a religion for Niggers.

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>>51573318
How many of those are immigrants?
All of them are. Either immigrants that came in during the past decades, or the children of those immigrants. Islam is not native to germany, and muslims are inherently foreign to that land.

>As I doubt that literally every muslim in Germany turned up in the last 3 years.
I never made such claim. The 5 million strong muslim population was already established in germany before this refugee crisis. The crisis simply makes the already existing problem worse.

>>51573329
Traitors because by that act, they are subverting their own people and directly endangering their people's and descendant's future.
Taking up an ideology, that directly works to harm your own people, be it communism, globalism, islam, multiculturalism etc, is treason.

We Finns had commie traitors that tried to sell us to the Soviets shortly after we gained independence from the Russians.
We slaughtered those cunts. Betraying your own brothers, and sisters like that, is among the worst crimes imaginable. Unfortunately, we still have such treasonous ilk among us, namely the leftist cunts and ultracapitalist EU whores that push for globalism and multiculturalism here. They work to bring harm to our people, and thus they are fucking traitors and deserve death.
I would have no fucking problem with killing all of our pro EU politicians.

>>51573380
>Islam is not native to germany, and muslims are inherently foreign to that land.

Neither is Christianity.

>>51573380
>All of them are. Either immigrants that came in during the past decades, or the children of those immigrants.

Or germans who converted.

>>51573304
>no official support
And a third of sweden's military equiment.

>economy is owned by rootless individuals who want to fuck over their own people
>he says as he lives in the most income equal place in the world.

And no, economies are what keep nations and their people afloat through hard times. I don't care about your autistic definition of what the economy is supposed to do because actual economists disagree with you.
Your country largely exports to the EU. Saying that the EU is bad for the Finnish people while you reap the benefits of being in the EU and export stuff to Germany is pretty fucking rich.

>>51573380
So children of immigrants can't become naturalized citizens? People who grow in Europe, have largely european values and the like can't be european because their phenotypes are wrong?

>we finns

Finland makes up less that 1% of the world's population. You are statistically irrelevant to the world's population at large.

Feel free to leave the EU at any time. Just don't whine when your economy collapses.

>>51573416
>So children of immigrants can't become naturalized citizens?

Clearly not. If you have a single drop of non-native blood you are to be executed as a traitor!

>>51573435
So what happens to all the funlanders that look like mongs?

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>>51573393

Christianity is a trash creed too. And?

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>>51573481
>accomplishments of european men.
>europe was secluded from the rest of the world until then.

>>51559951
The time of ending was a thing for like 5 years

>>51573497

Of course, every single invention of note was invented by a white man. Arabs and Greeks did nothing!

>>51573393
Agreed.

Unfortunately, the Christian Swedes fucking destroyed my people's ancient traditions and myths, and only few scraps of them remain with us today. And that same tale of Christians destroying pagan religions and traditions, or consuming them to become parts of Christian mythos, applies to most of Europe.

Like it or not, Christianity has been part of European culture for over a thousand years in some parts, whereas Islam has not.
We cannot change the past, but we can work towards preventing past repeating itself. I don't want Islam in my homeland in any shape or form.

>>51573407
Aka traitors, that deserve death.

>>51573416
>And a third of sweden's military equiment.
Lol no.

>>he says as he lives in the most income equal place in the world.
Income inequality has steadily increased since we let the ultracapitalist EU whores into the government.

>Your country largely exports to the EU. Saying that the EU is bad for the Finnish people while you reap the benefits of being in the EU and export stuff to Germany is pretty fucking rich.
>muh economic benefits are worth sacrificing the future of your people.

Piss off. If EU was just a trade union, I would have no problem with it. But it is not just a trade union. It is a political entity that seeks to federalize Europe, and evidently also seeks to replace native Europeans via mass immigration and destruction of the european nation states.

I take temporary economic turmoil that would come from leaving the EU, over the slow but certain extinction of my own people that will come from us staying in the EU.

cont.

>>51573497

>The Roman Empire before Constantine and Alexander's Empire were Christian

Christcucks in action.

>>51573513
>So children of immigrants can't become naturalized citizens?
Generally, no. I don't consider anyone who doesn't have at least one native Finnish parent to be a Finn, and even then, I despise mongrels. In order to be a Finn, you have to be actually fucking Finnish. It is that simple. Just having our passport doesn't make one a Finn.

>People who grow in Europe, have largely european values and the like can't be european because their phenotypes are wrong?
Yes. What is so hard to understand about this? An European who moves to Africa or Japan, will never fucking be African or Japanese, even if he lives there his whole life.

>Finland makes up less that 1% of the world's population. You are statistically irrelevant to the world's population at large.
Which is especially why we Finns must look out for our own interest above everyone else. No one else is certainly going to do that for us. The interests and wellbeing of Finns are always far more important to me, than that of any other group. Fuck, I pretty much have the same outlook towards my own people, that Craftworld Eldar have towards themselves. Non-Finns literally don't matter to me. I don't care about them or their hardships one bit.

>Feel free to leave the EU at any time. Just don't whine when your economy collapses.
You can recover from an economic collapse. You cannot recover from demographic replacement and the extinction of your people.

>>51573513

And what about people who have one parent who is an immigrant and one parent a native born person?

>>51573524
read>>51573521

>>51573510
Greeks are white and Arabs are Caucasian.

>>51573521

So people born in the USA are not American unless they are natives?

>>51573510

>Greeks aren't White despite repeatedly clustering with other Euros and showing little non-Euro admixture.

>Pretending the Persians and other non-Arabs or non-actual Muslims weren't the bulk of brights in the Islamic Empires

>>51573528

How many generations back do you need to go to not be a 'Mongrel' or do you need to not have a single drop of something outside of Finland?

>>51573497

>t.SJW

Keep trying to minimize Europe. I'm not sure if you're a salty mud or a White cuck.

>>51573510

>Greeks.

Found the tumblr user. Next you'll be saying Beethoven was a Nigger.

>>51573536
USA is a colonist country full of mongrels. Their situation is wholly different from that of Finland, because USA has never really been an ethnostate, a native homeland of a group of people.

Americas are the native homelands of the native americans, true, but they largely were destroyed by the colonist europeans and the current USA, would collapse into itself utterly if the non natives left.

Generally speaking, USA does not have it's own "people", because it is not an ethnostate. There are american citizens, and pretty much anyone can become one.

>>51573547
Generally speaking, having some non Finnish ancestry is fine. We have a problem when we head towards Brazil style situation, where literally everyone is some sort of mongrel. I very much, want Finland to stay Finnish, and not become some sort of disgusting melting pot where my people would disappear within few generations due to miscegenation.

>>51573595
>Generally speaking, having some non Finnish ancestry is fine.

How many generations then does it take for one of those muslim immigrants children to be finnish if they marry finish people? Grandchildren? Great grandchildren?

>>51573590
>europe was a commonly united entity that didn't trade with the rest of the world, wasn't settled throughout history by non europeans like the PIE and the like.

You can claim credit for what europeans did throughout all of history, just like sandniggers can claim that they invented agriculture and thus everyone should be grareful to them.

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>>51573610
Grandchildren, but only if they are fully assimilated, have abolished everything about their mudslime ancestry, and embraced Finnish culture and traditions.

Islam has no fucking place in this land and I want all of it removed.

>>51573610
never.

Just don't trigger the finn by reminding him that his people and ethnicity were under russian yoke for hundreds of years, his people's cultural contribution is a badly drawn pedobear and half his ancestral homeland is full of russians.

>>51573631

And what happens if they hold to both both?

>>51573631

Ah, right. So they should embrace your nation's proud tradition of taking Russian dicks up the ass?

>>51573627

By the Greeks did their feats Europe was White.

>>51573595
Funny thing is Finland already has some of the most tough immigration laws in the world and is only being asked to take in a proportionate amount of refugees that you will be free to boot out once the humanitarian crisis is over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Finland

Most finns don't want a shit ton of immigrants and they are well within their rights to do so.

>>51573658
>greeks invented agriculture.
Yeah, the tigris valley, 100% ancient greek clay.

>>51573657
alternately swedish dick

>>51573676

Also acceptable.

Heck, as a Finn shouldn't be be happy about being invaded by someone more relevant than himself? That is his cultural and traditions. He should be proud of them.

>>51573684
Shut up.
Remember how prkls destroyed russia by losing half their country, being supplied by Sweden and then denying the entire thing ever happened.

>>51573672

>reading comprehension

I said the Greek's feats (see Aristotle and Archimedes). I don't know where you pulled anybody saying they invented agriculture.

Or are you pretending the Greeks weren't and still aren't White like the tumblrina over here >>51573510?

>>51573637
Our history under Russia doesn't trigger me m8.
We have a lot to thank for to the Russians because when they took us from the Swedes, our road to independence began. Swedes treated us far, far worse, than the Russians did during their rule over us, and in many ways, the decisions Russians made during our time as an autonomous grand duchy laid the foundations for our eventual self actualization as an independent nation and people.
They freed our trade from the monopoly we were forced to obey under the Swedes, allowed us to keep our already existing laws and institutions of governance, established the Finnish senate, the precursor to our current government, and hell, they even encouraged our national romanticism movement because back then, the Czars wanted an empire with multitude of different peoples to govern. Only later, towards the end of the 19th century, did the russification stuff start which sullied our relations with the Russians. Before that, things were quite swell for us Finns. We had became wealthier, and our population had actually grown after hundreds of years of stagnation it had been in under the Swedish rule.

>>51573644
Traitors, deserve death. Islam has no place here.

>>51573663
Not tough enough.
And no shit most Finns don't want shittons of immigrants here. Leftist brainwashing has not yet taken root in most of us. We can clearly see the eminent danger mass immigration brings.

>>51573705
Greeks were and largely remain mediterranean.

Saying that Europeans innovated because they were white is disingenuous at best as half of greece was in anatolia, had extensive contacts with both egypt and Persia and had several technologies that are required for civilization to grow and flourish transferred to them from the (((nonwhites))))

>>51573657
>>51573676
>>51573698
>>51573684

>haha, people living in cold, ass end of nowhere swamp land, and who numbered in couple hundred thousand at most during the majority of their history were subjugated by numerically superior neighbors who also had major trade connection to rest of the world and thus technological advantage.

So you mock the african, native american and the aborginese people as well for being conquered and subjugated?

>>51573724
>not tough enough.
It's around 18 years of staying in finland on a permit.
It's as tough as it's gonna get.

Just seal your borders off and stop trade fingol.

>leftist brainwashing.

Funny how you want to reap all the fucking benefits of the EU but won't pitch in with it's obligations. Or do you want people to have free flow of capital in your frozen hellhole but not free flow of labor?

>>51573743

Only when they start calling for death for other people.

>>51573743
>africans

Africa's population boom was relatively recent and Several Sub saharan african polities independently developed agriculture, metalworking and had cities.

Finns meanwhile had what exactly?

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>>51573738

> Greeks were and largely remain mediterranean.

>Mediterraneans are seperate from Whites regardless of location

You know that Greeks group with other Euros?

> Saying that Europeans innovated because they were white is disingenuous at best as half of greece was in anatolia, had extensive contacts with both egypt and Persia and had several technologies that are required for civilization to grow and flourish transferred to them from the (((nonwhites))))

Sure, Jared Diamond.

>>51573766

We Wuz Kangz.

>>51573773
>only genetics
Yeah, and trade practices and actual physical evidence of agricultural practices moving westwards are just leftist drivel to keep the white man down.

>>51573787
Wew lad.

>>51573791

Nobody said factors not rooted in human biology didn't play their parts. Quit chimpingout.

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>>51573750
>Funny how you want to reap all the fucking benefits of the EU but won't pitch in with it's obligations. Or do you want people to have free flow of capital in your frozen hellhole but not free flow of labor?

I don't want the "benefits of the EU". I want out of this cancerous union, didn't I already make it quite clear.
And free flow of labor harms our own laborers, so no, I do not want it.

>>51573758
So you do mock them regularly?
I only call for death of traitors and the expulsion of harmful immigrants from my homeland. I don't have any problem with how non Finns live their lives outside of Finland.

>>51573766
We had metalworking, small fishing/trading towns, farming small localized "kingdoms" led by clan and tribal chiefs etc typical pagan level society that existed in the Finnish peninsula and the Baltic regions, by the time Swedes conquered us. We weren't some caveman tier forest people. The living conditions in Finland back there were also far, far harsher, than in Africa.

>>51573811

>I only call for death of traitors

Ah, yes. People who marry people outsider their own race or who practice a non-finnish faith (Oh wait, all your Finnish faiths are dead)

>>51573811
>kingdoms
you mean tribal villages.

And finland barely has any immigrants except those that are there on a work permit.
You want your sovereignity, then get out and get invaded by russia again.

>>51573794

Hey, go ahead and exaggerate whatever Dindus did in Africa. You're the mud or cuck here.

>>51573811
>boers and white settlers drive africans out of their own lands and make them live on reservations, systematically exclude them from economic and educational avenues
>"Abloo bloo, they wants us dead, we dindu nuffin."